November 19, 2023 • 56 mins
Musa Motha is an outstanding, world class dancer and a master of making the impossible, possible. Despite a leg amputation at the age of 11 due to cancer, Musa's dance techniques and innovations exceed all ideas of what we typically think able-bodied means. Musa Motha has won the hearts and minds of thousands around the world, he is celebrated as a national hero in his home country of South Africa and now based in London, England, he is equally loved. Musa made television history with his breakthrough, UK, performance on the hit TV series, Britain’s Got Talent. The first ever, group golden buzzer was struck after the hysterical insistence of the audience. A shower of love and gold saturated the stage in return for a dance performance that was one of awe and disbelief. His ballet posture could hold up a skyscraper, but the essence of his core strength is courage, firm self-belief and faith. We talk about transformation in his personal life and in South Africa itself. Musa was nearly one when Nelson Mandela was sworn in as president. We talk about losing a leg and becoming a dancer, his near death experiences, positive thinking, visualisation, his firm belief in manifestation and unwavering faith in God.
Photo Credits: @ViktorErikEman
Series Audio Editor - Joey Quan.
Series Music - Courtesy of Barry J. Gibb
Closed Captions are added to all interviews in this series. Read only, text versions of every interview, news, reviews and your host are here: https://www.canartsaveus.com
Discover Musa Motha: www.harboursidemgmt.com/artists/musa-motha-artist-page/
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:03):
Welcome to this podcastseries asking the question Can
art save us? I'm starting thefirst national and international
conversation about courage andcuriosity. What do these
qualities really mean and whydoes it make a big difference to
our mental, societal anddemocratic health? I talk to
award winning and diverseartists across the arts to
(00:24):
explore these qualities in theirlives and work, both to inspire
and for us all to learn. I'mexploring why we need these
qualities to help change theglobal epidemic of mental
illness, loneliness,polarization of our communities,
and even global conflicts. Ifthe arts cultivate courage and
curiosity, I'm asking thequestion, Can art save us? And my
(00:50):
guest today is an outstandingworld class dancer and a Master
of making the impossiblepossible. His dance techniques
and innovations exceed all ideasof what we typically think
mobility is, or what we thinkathleticism or able bodied
means. Musa Motha has won thehearts and minds of 1000s around
(01:11):
the world. He's celebrated as anational hero in his home
country of South Africa. And nowbased in London, England, he's
equally loved. You may have seenhis breakthrough UK performance
on the hit TV series Britain'sGot Talent. With Simon Cowell at
the helm, Musa achieved anhistoric first, the first ever
(01:33):
group Golden Buzzer was struckafter the screaming if not
hysterical insistence of theaudience, a shower of love and
gold saturated the stage inreturn for a dance performance
that was one of awe anddisbelief. Why? Musa Motha had a
leg amputated at the age of 11.At 28 his dance performances
(01:56):
take flight, his spins takecharge of any stage, and his
ballet posture could hold up askyscraper. But the essence of
his core strength is courage,firm self-belief and faith.
Hello, Musa and thank you verymuch for joining me today.
Thank you for the invite.
(02:17):
I'm so pleased we can talk. Iknow you're busy and I know you're
in a busy setting. But I'mreally looking forward to
talking to you today. Thank youagain for making the time.
Thank you. I'm looking forwardto sitting with you as well.
Oh, lovely. Well, Musa, one ofthe things I found interesting
when I was doing my research, Isaw a news report that had been
(02:39):
shot in South Africa. And thereporter was saying that your
name Musa actually means hope.And I've also read it can mean
visionary and great messenger.So I was curious about the
heritage of your name and whatyou understand it to mean.
Oh, yes. So my name has like,different definitions. So first
(03:01):
of all, yeah, it's hope. Andthen the other one is grace, you
know, yeah, and again, it justabout like, my mom told me this
message about like, the namethat she gave me Musa actually
being having like, a good heart,and always being, you know,
(03:21):
giving those positive vibespositive energies at all times.
I mean, it couldn't have been abetter chosen name, could it in
terms of how this has manifestedin terms of your purpose in
life? Would you say that itreally helps reinforce that
purpose that you want toinstill positive messages,
(03:43):
encourage people in terms ofbelief, self belief, or faith?
Yeah, for sure. I mean, that's,I believe that that's my purpose
in it. Because like, right now,I'm in a stage where I actually
go do my job, you know, becauseI want to serve people, I want
to restore their belief inthemselves, you know, always be
(04:05):
positive, even if you can be inthe midst of that negative
stuff. But you can always, youknow, drift back, find
positives, and then live offthe positive all the time and
believe in yourself and knowthat nothing is impossible
in it.
Absolutely and at the same time,your story, your life story is
(04:25):
even more active than hope youreally do make things happen.
You're actively involved in yourown transformation. And I
wondered, for listeners thataren't familiar yet with your
story, what lies behind yourextraordinary ability as a
dancer. Would you like toexplain how your life changed at
(04:48):
the age of 10 and 11?
Oh, yes, absolutely. So um, Iused to be a football player at
age like 10, 9, 10, 11 and thenthere was a time when I got kicked
on my knee but I wouldn't say it wasa cause of the event, but it was
just like a coincidence and anoutlet of what
(05:12):
was going to happen. And afterthat, my knee was getting
swollen every day. And then it got big and I started to go to
the doctors and stuffbut they couldn't find anything
until my mom took me to, to to the, to the doctor to the
specialist. And then we didtheir surgical process
(05:33):
called a biopsy, where they takelike a bone marrow, and then
they go do the test. And that'swhen they came back with I was
positive with cancer, and thenthey diagnosed me. And then
that's where I started to takemy, they recommended me to take
the chemotherapy. And then yeah,I think after two, after two
(05:55):
weeks of taking it, they werelike, No, we suggest you to, to
go through amputation, becauselike, we don't know how far it's
traveled and all because it tooktook so long to come to the
hospital and doctors. So yeah,that's what that's what we
actually faced. Yeah, it was, itwas not really like a traumatic
story for me, you know, becauseI've got sick for a long time
(06:17):
before I could get diagnosedwith cancer. So for me, it was a
solution. In the end, we made thedecision as a collective of
family. It was a thing of like,yes, let's do it. Let's go
through this.
Yeah, because you've said thatpart of your transformation,
(06:39):
even at that young age was thatyou took charge of your life.
How would you explain that, andparticularly at such a young
age, when this was happening toyou?
I guess I've always beenpositive, you know, because my
character haven't changed eversince I was young. So it was
just about, like, always findingthe positive sides of
(07:01):
everything, you know, and again,it's just about like, what I
wanted in life, what I needed,you know, I knew what I wanted.
And when anytime I know what Iwant, I go for it, you know, and
I'm the type of person whoweighs the possibilities of
something, if I want to buy acar, I will, I will just like
(07:21):
calculate it. Like, okay, thisis how much I need to put my
energy into this. And will I beable to afford it? Will I be
able to get the energy out ofthat? Will I be able to deal
with the consequences of thesituation. And that's
actually what motivates me as ayoung person. And that's the
strategy that I've been workingon. I've been using all my life.
(07:45):
Because I remember even like,when I started to play football,
I was actually like thinkingabout a lot. Oh, am I gonna be
able to get to the superstarlevel? Or what is this? And if I
don't see myself being asuperstar, then I don't
literally, like, try to dothat. Even with dance. I started
thinking about like, Oh, am Igoing to make it to the
(08:07):
mainstream stages and all ofthat and then I started seeing
that. And then that's where Iwas like, okay, cool, then yes,
let's do it. So I always havethat self drive thing going on
every time.
Yeah. So you really do setyourself enormously high
standards. And the ironies inyour life are extraordinary,
because you've said that younever saw yourself as a dancer,
(08:30):
as a dancer, of course, you hadinterests in soccer. You never
saw yourself as a dancer, youthen lose a leg after a life
changing operation. And then youbecome an outstanding dancer.
And you've said, and you've said'dance chose me.' What what did
(08:51):
that choice feel like? How didit happen? How did it come and
find you?
It's actually a story that I always tell, which is a story of
how a man lose like middle aged,38 or 40, you know. So he
came to me after my performance.I was I was performing like a
(09:12):
street dance type of thing goingon. It was a competition. So
after my performance, he camedown, and then he actually
hugged me, he was crying. Andthen at the time, I was like,
confused what's going on? And hetold me that he was depressed
and all that and that night, hewas going to commit suicide and
all but after seeing myperformance, he was like, he
actually literally changed hismind. So at that point, I was
(09:36):
like, okay, so how many, howmany of these type of people
have I actually saved their liveswith what I do on stage? And for
me it was just about like, I'mdoing this for fun in it. I was
doing it for that. It was justlike, an extra moral thing for
me until I took it serious. Andthen at that point, I realized
(09:59):
okay, this is it. You knowwhat, I found my purpose. And
then I started taking it seriousbecause for me, I mean, studying
dancing was just a thing it wasfor like flourishing and all of
that, because it was a thingback then, you know, like street
dancing is so cool. You know, Iwant to be cool as well, and all
of that, but I never thought Iwould take it serious and make a
(10:19):
career out of it. So that'sactually how it found me, drove
me to a place where I didn'tknow I would find myself. And I
was like, Okay, why not? Youknow, let's just do it.
Yeah, so this extraordinarystory of someone that was about
to take their own life, reallyaffirms your choice to really
(10:42):
focus on dance and invest indance. So that must have come
with an enormous sense ofresponsibility as well, when
someone shares such a powerfulstory, that you change their
life from ending it to actuallysomehow restoring their faith
and renewing their ownpossibilities. It's a beautiful
(11:06):
story, but I imagine it givesyou a strong sense of
responsibility?
Yes, of course, of course,that's true because like,
every time, when I step onstage,I make sure that it's not about
me, but it's someone out there.You know, every time before I
step on stage, I said a littleprayer, you know, and I just
(11:29):
opened my heart to connect withthose hearts out there. And I
believe that, since I realizedthat this is a purpose for me,
so I believe that it has areason why I have to do this. So
I, yeah, it's more of like, yes,it's a responsibility, and I
have to serve it, you know,I'm serving it. I'm actually,
(11:51):
you know, kind of satisfied withit, because I love what I do.
Yeah, absolutely. And it seemsto me that your sense of service
is what grounds you in humility,you have an you have a strong
emphasis on the importance ofhumility, you know, you have
fast growing rapid success. Butyou very much remain clear on
(12:14):
the importance of humility. Andis it that sense of service that
grounds you?
Yeah, it really grounds me,always make sure that I'm
humble, but being humble is partof my, my personality, per my
character, you know, and witheverything that I'm exposed to
(12:35):
right now, you know, it reallybrings out that character,
because whenever time peopleapproached me, I'm always down
to earth, even maybe, I justrecently came across, like a
very disturbing moment, like,oh, like, someone just literally
ruined my day. And then I meetup with someone else, and they
just want to take apicture. I don't, I don't
(12:57):
literally show that energy, Idon't give them that energy. But
literally, it just changedautomatically that I become a
different person, I become calm,you know, I think about the
person, I think about how theperson feels, you know, instead
of like, thinking about mypersonal feelings.
Yeah. And, and it seems to me aswell that during, during the
(13:21):
post op treatment after youramputation, obviously
chemotherapy is can beparticularly harsh. And in your
case, it was very harsh. But youyou've also talked about the
impact on your mum, for example,you were really aware of the
emotional distress for her or,you know, as you mentioned, your
(13:46):
encounter with the man that wasfeeling suicidal, you were very
aware of your mum's own sense ofdistress. And already you were
trying to take responsibilityfor that, in terms of how you
could equally help her throughthe process.
Yeah, I mean, like, I literally,like the story of me getting
(14:10):
treatment and all, for me, it wasnot a let me just say, for me
and my family, it was nottraumatic, because, like, a
story before my diagnosis,that's the darkest story, a
story that I'll talk about in my book that I'm going to
release in a few years. Youknow, it's more of like that
story. It's, it's more of like,that's the one that brought me
(14:34):
down to my knees. You know, but,when I got cancer, when I had a
solid diagnosis, and when I wason my treatment, taking my
treatment, it was not reallythat difficult, because I was
kind of like, in a joyful momentwhere I think about like, Okay,
now, I'm not going to be I'm notgoing to be sick for a long time
(14:56):
anymore. You know, I'm gettingtreatment, I'm going to be fine,
you know, and and when theyactually, like, proposed the
amputation, I was not reallylike, traumatized and all
because like, I lost at thatpoint, I had lost the sense of
walking. So for me, it was itwas like, Okay, this is a
(15:16):
relief, at least we're going toget rid of this painful
thing, you know, and I'm goingto be able to go back to school
go back to play with other kids onit. Because I was still young,
you know? Yeah. But from for mymom was it was not really that
smooth as it was for me. BecauseI guess she was also like,
thinking about like, okay, mychild was like this, and then
(15:38):
now, he's completely gonnachange and all of that, you
know, but, you know, everythinghappens for a reason, I know
that I went through whatever Iwent through, for a solid reason.
And that reason is actuallylike, you know, resonating right
now is like, projected into whatis happening today.
Yeah, and even when you reflecton the time you were kicked in
(16:02):
the knee, that very much had areason, didn't it because
perhaps that kick was whattriggered something that needed
to be found as soon as possiblefor example.
Oh yes for sure I am, I'mlike a true believer of like,
everything happens for a reason,you know, and I'm religious. Even
(16:25):
if I can get hit by a car today,when I wake up, I'm gonna say,
Okay, thank you, God forwhatever he did. I don't know
why he did that. But there's areason for it. And a few days
later, or a few months later,I'm gonna see why that happened.
You know, so we, I am, like,I'm, like, 100%, believing in,
like, everything happens for areason. And I guess that's,
(16:47):
that's what makes me stronger.Because like, even when I lose
something, or lose someone, ordon't make it to something else,
or something that is not thatliterally not working in my
life, I find a positive side ofsaying, Okay, this is not for
me, or this person was not meantto be in my life, or this was
not meant to be in my life, orthis was not meant to happen,
(17:09):
you know, or I'm not ready yet.You know, so those things kind
of, like, keep me on my toes andkeep me positive at all times.
Yeah, it's a really strong levelof awareness in terms of how you
interpret everything. And when,again, when I look at your life
story, it does very much feeleven more than a transformation.
(17:31):
It's like a rebirth. Or it'seven like a reincarnation. And I
know that you've mentionedelsewhere, I think during
treatment, you may, you may evenhave experienced some degree of
resuscitation attempts. And tome that really reinforced this
is a rebirth. You you've had toreally, almost disappear in
(17:56):
order to come back as who youare today.
Yes, for sure. That's true. Youknow, like, because there's a
moment where I was like, in themiddle of taking chemotherapy,
and I was so deformed. I was sodark didn't have hair. My mom even
(18:16):
couldn't see me like sheliterally told me like a few
years ago, she's like you knowthat day when she walked in and
in my ward, and then she put herbag down and then she walked
out again. And she startedlooking for me outside. Because
she didn't know that was me and then she came back, she came
back crying. And I was like,what was going on? And in that,
(18:39):
at that time, I didn'tunderstand. But when she told me
like now, now, now, I was like,oh, okay, so you didn't see me.
So I take that as like, therewas literally a transformation
like, there was a rebirth.
Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely arebirth and such a shifting
identity. And it seems thatshifting identity is physical,
(19:02):
it's spiritual, it's mental.It's literally a top to toe
transformation. And I read thatwhen you first started to
embrace dance with with friends.Hip-hop, and Pantsula was
(19:22):
probably the initial startingpoint. Is that right? Was it was
it that kind of street dance butspecific as well to Pantsula,
which is unique, I think, toSouth Africa.
Yeah, it was, there is anotherone called S’bujwa
and it has alittle bit of Pantsula.
(19:44):
Yeah.
Yeah. So was it like a whole newcommunity that was wrapped
around you when you started toembrace street dance? Oh, yes.
Yes, definitely. Like everyonein the neighborhood was a
dancer. So that's what actuallydrew me into that.
Oh, lovely. So that must havebeen almost like, energy pouring
(20:06):
into you if you're surrounded byother dancers. Would you say
that, that energy really helpeddrive you forward?
Yeah, for sure. Yes. Because I,every time when I danced they
like, pushed me up and then andagain, it was so satisfying for
me to see them buckling down,you know, like dancing and all
(20:28):
of that. So, yeah, it was a itwas a good drive for me.
Yeah. And just to give listenerscontext, could you could you
tell us, where where you grew, grew up? What were the what
were the social conditions likeof where you grew up? And also,
what year were you born Musa?
Oh, I actually grew up in, I wasborn in 19 95/10 of June, was
(20:56):
born in a neighborhood in the southern
side of Johannesburg in SouthAfrica. And it's kind of like a
township more than, you know,suburbs. And yeah, it was
suburbs, I don't know how todescribe it. Yeah, yeah. It's,
(21:17):
it's a cool place where it'slike, everyone has like this
unity, you know, and people arealways on the streets. And the
street culture is very, very,like, you know, prioritized at
that point. And, yeah, I guessit was just about, like, being
on being on the streets all thetime, you know, playing, seeing
(21:40):
other people doing their things,you know, everyone is minding
their own business. It's allabout hustling, you know. So
yeah.
It's really interesting, becausethe reason I asked what year you
were born, so you were born in1995 and of course, in 1994,
Nelson, Nelson Mandela was swornin as president. So again, your
(22:05):
your entire life is abouttransformation, you were born
into one of the most importanttimes in history that absolutely
incredible transformation fromsuch cruel decades of an
apartheid system into new hope,and human rights and equality
(22:28):
with Nelson Mandela. So I'mimagining this must have had
such a huge impact, positiveimpact on your identity. Growing
up, did you really look towardspeople like Nelson Mandela or
Desmond Tutu, for example?
Yes, I mean, those, those twoare the icons, you know, and
(22:52):
they made sure that we findcomfortability in the life that
we live in, and again like,you know, I've literally felt
that transition, you know,because when I was growing up, I
could feel I could see thepeople changing from being
nervous all the time to tryingto be comfortable, you know. And
(23:16):
yeah, I'm looking at this, like,a perfect example of like, how
my character was built. I'm thetype of person who thinks about,
like, how other people feel. AndI want to make people
comfortable. And I want to makepeople you know, happy at all
times. You know, it's not aboutme, but it's about like,
changing other people's lives.So, so yeah, I look up to them
(23:38):
that literally, like there's alot of people like Chris Hani,
there's other people that I canname that from, you know, South
Africa, that made a hugedifference. And I've learned
about them, you know, at schooland in my private times, you
know.
It's incredible, isn't itbecause, of course, just taking
(24:01):
Nelson Mandela as, as oneexample. It really does
demonstrate, doesn't it theimportance of struggle, the
importance of struggle, and alsowhat's possible, even when we
think it's impossible, and theyseems to really feed into your
(24:22):
identity and who you are, andhow you've changed the word
impossible.
Yeah, for sure. I mean, talkingabout our late Dr. Nelson
Mandela, he he was like a truedefinition of a peacemaker. So
he would sacrifice his happinessto make other people happy. And
(24:44):
he would sacrifice his personallife to make the nation happy
and to get the what what's bestfor them minute so yeah, for me,
it was very encouraging and itwas inspiring as well to grow up
into to an environment wherepeople are actually like,
rooting for this one person whochanged our lives. And it's so
(25:08):
like, oh, I used to sit, I usedto sit with my, with my grandma,
and ask her questions that yo,how was it with this era of
apartheid and all that, youknow, and she used to tell me
the stories, how they lived,what they did, you know, and
what other people did to themand all of that. And it was so
sad and traumatic, you know, andthat's where I appreciate what
(25:30):
Nelson Mandella, like Chris Hani, and then other people
did, too, did for us, you know,they changed, they really
changed our life. And it is forthe best now. You know, I mean,
our country is actually close tobeing a better country, you
know, because of people like Dr.Nelson Mandela.
Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. Youwere born into such an
(25:55):
incredible time oftransformation. And isn't it
lovely, in so many ways thatyour life is also about
transformation, and also aboutbeing a messenger of positive
transformation?
Yeah, to that, yeah.
It's beautiful. So I wasinterested in terms of the
(26:18):
context of your family growingup in South Africa how
important faith was. How,how much difference did faith
make to you to your family? Andwhether what happened to you
even developed your sense ofspiritual curiosity about life
(26:39):
and the purpose of life?
Oh, yeah, faith, faith is a veryimportant thing. It's like a
primary primary factor in myfamily, you know, basically, in
like, you know, African, Africanpeople, like, it's, it's a thing
that we hold on to faith, and webelieve in our faith, you know,
(27:00):
and again, it's all about like,knowing how to use it, knowing
how to learn the basic, like thebasics of life, you know, in in
so many different ways. Like,for instance, right, when, when
I was taught how this thingcalled life works is like, the
(27:20):
world, the world itself, likeplanet Earth has its own
language, which is what wespeaking for the whole universe,
understand the language offrequencies. So that is why we
use as Africans, we use morefaith and belief in a lot of the
because when you believe insomething, you put your mind
(27:41):
into it. And automatically, whenyou put your mind into it, you
send in frequencies to theuniverse and the universe comes
down to it, they respondimmediately. And then you get
that that is why you get like alot of people who are like, who
are seeing most poor get poorer,the rich, get richer, as you
(28:02):
know, the rich get richer, isbecause of the mindset that they
like, someone who's poor willalways think about like, oh my
god, I'm so sad, oh, my God, I'mgoing to, you know, get bad
vibes today and all that andalready they attract in those
things. And that's why Iactually came into like,
manifestations, praying and allof that, because I believe in
(28:25):
manifestation so much, that mydreams, all my dreams, I write
them down every day, you know, Ihave a system that I'll use, so
that I always have that, thatkind of like energy around it
surrounding me. And it alsohelps me to protect my aura, it
also helps me to clean up myaura and to make sure
(28:46):
that when every time I meet upwith people, they get positive
energy from me, you know, andpraying as well, in the
spiritual field. It's a veryimportant thing. You know, as I
say, I'm a religious person, Ibelieve in God, you know, and I
always take God as like, this ismy father, we have a
relationship, what is ourrelationship, I talk to him
(29:07):
every day I pray every day, whenI when I'm about to do
something, I talk to him as forthe guidance and all of that,
and if I don't believe in whatI'm saying, then I know that
nothing will happen so I have tobelieve in what I'm saying. So
that comes with faith. And whenyou believe in something, you
have to do something you have toreact on it and you need to
(29:27):
create a rhythm around whateverthey're doing. If you create a
rhythm a rhythm willautomatically create a trance
and when you get a trance, trance,trance is something that you
cannot control is an energy thatis that is like instilled or
that is created and it actsindependently so you cannot
control a trance. So when youwhen you get into a trance
(29:49):
that's where actually like a lotof things are happening. So you
you create the rhythm, therhythm creates a trance. And
then right now I'm in the midstof trance, where energies are
just flowing the way I createdthem. You know, so it's like
positive vibes all the time. Ialways get positive things from
(30:11):
all different life aspects fromdifferent corners of the world,
you know, because I manifestedthis and now it's in a trance
state. And when it's in trance,I mean, I can't control it. That
is right now. I feel so blessed.I feel I feel so lucky to be in
a state. I mean, I am today. AndI feel like you said before
(30:33):
earlier about theresponsibility, I feel like it's
when I transmit right now.Because automatically when
someone comes to me and say, YoMusa, I have a problem. I'm
automatically thinking about howcan I help this person? I have
to help them, you know? Andyeah, I guess.
Yeah.
(30:55):
It's, it's lovely tohear such, you know, such
enthusiasm. And in that, in thatexperience, and, and trance is
really important. Other artistshave referred to that and often
through rhythm, often throughdance, often through music. And
it seems to be a reallyimportant quality that's gifted
from the arts. And anotherimportant reason why we need a
(31:19):
healthy relationship with thearts in order to experience
these things. You're very clearabout positive manifestations as
well as face and you're talkingabout intention having clear
intention. So we know that, youknow, as we were talking about,
you know, the terrible historyof apartheid in South Africa,
(31:40):
there are systemic, oppressiveforces against people. But
you're also asserting theimportance of intention of self
belief in order to manifestchange.
Oh, yeah, for sure. Definitely.
So can you remember the day whenyou reflected on the word
(32:04):
impossible? And recognized youcould change that to I'm
possible? Can you remember thatday and what was happening?
Well, I'll be lying. If I say Iremember the day but I would say
the era was when I wastransitioning from high school
(32:29):
to college. Because like, that'swhere my career was actually,
like getting more stronger. Youknow, and I was playing football
with able bodies, you know?And that's where I was like, you
know, what, I've literally metup with amputees and like, Yeah,
let's do this. And then most ofthem, they can't do it, you
know? And it's a mindset thing Iknow, but they always say,
(32:54):
that's impossible to do and thenand try it. And then it happens
that we are actually like, oh,okay, so I break this word
impossible. We know that nothingis really impossible until
you try it. And then you see thatokay, it's not impossible. So
yeah, I guess I don't, it's oneof those things that I actually
(33:15):
caught along the way. I waslike, Oh, okay. Yes. Yeah, I, I
break this word, you know, andI am possible. I am a true
definition of possibilities, youknow, so yeah.
Yeah. So I happy evolution interms of your own mindset,
because it's, it's veryinteresting, isn't it that the
(33:39):
loss of a leg gave you a newmindset that's so powerful in so
many ways?
Yeah, for sure. It made me growup so quick, you know, mature so
quick. And it made me appreciateevery moment of my life because
(34:02):
I've I've literally faced death, like I've literally like
saw it with my own eyes youknow, like, you know, I'm not
even joking. I feel like youknow, when every time I tell the
story of like, because I haven'ttold my mom this story where I
literally got I don't I don'tremember what what are those
things called when someone likewhen your heart stops and they
(34:24):
electrify you?
Oh, they have to shock you?That's right. Yeah,
that like yeah, I literally wentthrough that and then during
that process, I can still see itvisibly like what was happening
at that time and how I felt,you know, the first time this
happened the second time, thethird time, you know, like, you
(34:47):
know, it made me feel so I needto appreciate it that I need to
appreciate the moment of like, Ineed to hold on to the feeling
of fear. Musa now you aretransitioning into this person,
so how are we doing this? Andthen God was there he was at my
side the whole time. And that'swhere I started to think about
(35:08):
Okay, so losing a leg isactually not a loss, it's
actually a gain, you know, Igained something I gained a lot,
you know, because, come to thinkabout it, you know, I would have
maybe right now, I would havebeen like, maybe a biochemist or
a chemical engineer, you know,or something else, you know, I'm
(35:29):
not saying it's a bad thing, butI wouldn't, I wouldn't be at the
space where I'm at today, if Iwas not, in the situations that
I've encountered, you know, so Iappreciate every moment that I
went through, and it's more oflike, some people would, would
be really weird for me, they'relike, Oh, so you really
(35:49):
appreciate that you lost a leg,bro. That's like, yeah, you
know, you will never understandbecause right now, I'm a moving
billboard, you know, like,wherever that wherever I go,
people look at me, you know, andI look good. You know, I make sure
that I look good. So that I canfeel good, you know, and make me
feel nice that, you know,wherever I go, some people would
(36:11):
just come to me and say, Yo,bro, you're truly an
inspiration. I'm like, you don'teven know me like, yeah, but
for the fact that you, you tookcharge of like, you want to be
this person and you want toinfiltrate this into society,
you know, really means a lot.I'm like, Okay, there's a lot,
there's like just a lot ofthings that I actually encounter
that I don't actually talkabout, you know, but yeah.
(36:36):
It seems well, would you say,Musa that you were tested with
such extreme demands of couragethat it was that test and the
fact that you were willing tofind that courage that you are,
where you are today and who youare today that it was a bigger
(37:01):
story in many ways than theamputation, although that is a
huge story. But it was a biggerstory in many ways in terms of
that test of faith and courageand having the courage to make
your own bold choices?
Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I mean, youknow, I'm gonna start...
(37:25):
Okay, yeah. I mean,you know, what, for me, it's
just about, like, appreciatinglife and making sure that I know
my purpose. And I always alignmy energy according to my
purpose, you know, because rightnow I'm, I'm kind of like,
(37:47):
getting into a position where Ialign all my energies into one
thing, and then I likedistribute it to people, you know,
and make sure you make themaware, that finding your purpose
is really important, because youjust flow, everything just
flows, you know, easier,everything that flows without
(38:09):
putting any extra efforts, youknow, but the most difficult
thing is finding your purpose,that's the most difficult thing.
Because when you find it afterfinding it, it's just like, you're
just relaxing, and everythinghappens automatically. So just
about like appreciating life,you know, being positive at all
times, and making sure that youdon't focus on negative stuff,
but I mean, I can encounter likehundreds, or 1000s of negative
(38:34):
stuff. But if I find that onething that is positive, I'm
going to focus on it, andautomatically it's going to delete
all the negative stuff aroundme, you know, so that's how I
actually view life. And that'show I live my life every day.
And I wondered if dance and yourown choreography, I wondered if
(38:57):
that was an expression ofprayer, and not necessarily
always storytelling, how wouldyou describe dance in your own
choreography?
Um, I'm having fun with dance,you know. But at the same time,
a dance for me it's more thanjust the performance. It's more
(39:19):
of like, a spiritual way of, youknow, celebrating something or
maybe if I'm trying to I'mtrying to like tell a story. I
use dance, you know, dance forme, is a lot of things, you
know, which are different comes with different situations and
different platforms environment.But most importantly, it just
(39:40):
about me sending messages outthere and being a messenger from
God and you know, the highestenergies. Yeah,
yeah. Because on the tremendousday, your your television
history day when the GoldenBuzzer was struck by all of the
all of the judges you at onepoint actually almost fell to
(40:05):
the stage you were kneelingperhaps in shock, it was
emotionally overwhelming. Imean, the space, the audience
was literally screaming andchampioning you and supporting
you in every way possible. Whatwhat was happening for you, when
you were kneeling? What washappening then in your mind?
(40:27):
Oh, it was a moment ofappreciation. So when the judges
pressed the buzzer, all of them. Iwas in a, in a moment of I was,
I was actually in a disbelief oflike, Yo, God, you literally
(40:48):
came through for me, you know,because that day was so hard.
Like, literally a day before Iwas coming from Southampton, to
London, you know, and then I gotto London very late at
like, I think 12pm or 12am, 11pm,you know, and then I didn't get
(41:10):
enough sleep, I had to wake upvery early in the morning to
catch a train to Manchester todo the show to record the, to
do the audition. And again I had like an ankle injury, I
had a shoulder injury, theperformance was really not that
smooth. So like, there was a lotof things that were happening at
(41:31):
the same time. And it was astruggle for me, like everything
was just dragging for me to getthere and to perform. It was
just like, you know, painful and stuff, you know, because
my shoulder's really giving meit you know, and again, when I
kneel down, I was just thinkingGod, the first thing that I did
(41:54):
was to pray I prayed. And it gotme emotional to like to an
extent, but I was like, Okay,God, what is this? What
happened? What was going on? Youknow, and I felt a sense of
like, God was trying to tell methat, Yo, this is just the
beginning of this era, I wantyou to know that we are about to
(42:17):
start a new belief, a new life.And this is what I need you to
actually focus on. And for me,it was a moment of like, I, I
didn't know how to react toanything, you know, but I was
just being thankful to what thesituation was, you know, and
yeah, I was just appreciatinglife that I had and that
(42:39):
moment, actually, yeah.
Yeah, yeah, I know, it's areally powerful and a really
beautiful moment. And leading upto that incredible moment,
obviously, you know, you'd beendancing for several years. And,
you know, right, from physio andrehab post op, you've worked
extremely hard on your, yourphysical capability. And I was
(43:05):
interested in how pivotaljoining the Vuyani dance theater
was for you. And the kind offreedom that you discovered
there, in order to become thedancer, you are now?
Joining the Vuyani theatrewas, was actually a blessing,
(43:27):
because I was a street dancerbefore. And then I joined in, I
think 2018. Yes, 2018 and thefounder of the company, Gregory
Maqoma, who's currently mymentor, he took me in, you know,
he was like, Yo, I'm not goingto treat you special or
something, you know, you'regoing to be as equal as everyone
(43:48):
in this company, you know. Andthen I took it in, you know, I
took it in, I digested the wholething, you know, and it was a
moment of appreciation at thattime, and I work so hard, and
they give you, they give youthe freedom to explore and the
freedom to be creative in yourown space, in your own time, in
your own feeling. And it gave methe sense of professionalism,
(44:12):
because that was the first timeI actually worked for a company
that was my first job in mylife, you know, and that was a
dream. And also, as a dancer,you want to be in a space in a
safe space financially, youknow, and again, you want to be
in a space where you will beable to enjoy yourself and as
well as working so hardshowcasing your talent, you
(44:33):
know, and that's what thecompany gave me. You know, like
my, I mean, like, my firstinternational tour was with
Vuyani Dance Theatre And yeah andother things that happened, you know,
like it was just so amazing tobe in the company.
Yeah, and so supported and itseems that it unleashed perhaps
(44:57):
the freedom to have your owncreative curiosity. And And
would that have included, wasthat the time where you decided
that you may only use one ofyour crutches even?
Oh, yes. I mean, this strategyactually came up during the
(45:18):
process of training. So Irealized that sometimes I just
don't need both crutches but Ineed one. Because if, if maybe
for instance, I'm using two,there'll be like, you know,
restrictions and all. And then Ijust use one, sometimes I don't
use crutches at all. Sometimes Iuse both of them. So it's just a
(45:38):
thing of like, depends on thechoreography actually depends on
the choreography, like, what isdemanded from me? What is
requested from me at that pointin time? So, yeah.
And also, with yourentrepreneurial interests, I
understand, you know, thatcreative curiosity, if you like,
has manifested in terms of yourown innovations of the design
(46:01):
for crutches, could you tell usa little about that? What's
happening?
Yes. Yeah, for sure. It's, it'sa story that actually developed
myself, which came from theexperiences that I encountered
with dancing, walking, you know,doing all those things, because
I realized that the crutchesthat are comfortable for walking
(46:25):
only, and that they are crutchesthat are comfortable for
dancing, and there are crutchesthat are specifically
comfortable for playingfootball, you know, and running,
and all of that. So, I want tofuse all of those, put them in
in one thing, and make sure thatthey are comfortable, but they
are strong at the same time. Andit's some sort of like a hustle.
(46:49):
You know, for us amputees who use crutches like, you know, like,
I've seen like my, my footballteam team members, they carry
like two crutches, two pairs ofcrutches, you know, they have
their working ones which arecomfortable for working, but
they're not strong enough toplay football with. And then now
we have to stretch to the onesthat we play football with. So
(47:11):
for me, I want to, I want tomake it so comfortable that you
use one crutch for all theoccasions, you know, so yeah,
I'm still developing everythingnow. And yeah, it's coming
alright, you know, meeting fewinterested, interesting people,
you know, and they actuallyhelping me out with research
that I'm doing.
(47:32):
Yeah. And it's another exampleof positive transformation,
isn't it that, again, things canchange, there can be positive
transformations and, andsomething like that will create
so much more enablement won't it for how people participate and
how people can use their ownbodies.
Yeah, to Yeah, that's true.
So there's just a couple morequestions just as we need to
(47:56):
start coming to a close, Musa.And one of the things I'm
interested in asking you aboutas this season is published on
World Children's Day. And WorldChildren's Day, is celebrated on
November the 20th, led by theUnited Nations, and I was
(48:17):
interested in, I was interestedin what your message to children
everywhere might be, you know,as you know, as a child, what
struggle is, you know, whatdiscrimination is, forces of
oppression are, but you alsoknow lessons of compassion. And
(48:38):
I wondered in terms of WorldChildren's Day, how you would
like to see the arts reachchildren and how the arts can
teach children?
Oh, yes, there's so manydifferent ways of doing that.
Because with me, I just workwith my experiences, you know,
(49:02):
and remember this other day,when I was young, and this other
old man came, and he wasactually teaching us about,
like, how to treat people, youknow, and again, how to expect
love, like how to reciprocateenergies, you know, and it was
so important for me right nowthat I see, okay, that person
(49:23):
taught me how to actually treatother people, you know, would be
like, different abilities ornormal person, but it's
important for children to begroomed at the early stage, you
know, so that they know thatthis is how you interact with
certain people in life. Thereare people who are like this,
(49:45):
you know, there are people whoare like so and so you know, so
you need to know how to react tothem. Like for instance, you can
write a book, you know, achildren's book, and teach them
how to treat like, you know,maybe differently able people, you
know, of course, they're goingto implement that. And they're
going to change how they seelife, you know, and again, with
(50:08):
children who are actually encountering the discrimination
and all can be. I mean, it comeswith different things with which
comes from the environment, andhow people who are close to you
or treating you, you know, itwill be like, whatever the
(50:31):
situation you're in, try, try,try going through the acceptance
first, you know, you acceptyourself, love yourself, nothing
will ever, you know, touch, youknow, distruct you in life, you
know, so, it's more of like, youneed to accept yourself, be in
love with yourself first, andthen know that no one will touch
(50:54):
you. Because even me right now,I think about lots of of
things that I, that I appreciatein life, you know, and I know
that I love myself and I lookgood, I make sure that I always
look good, because I love I lovelooking good, you know, and
making me feel good, you know,and the confidence. So I would
say like with the kids, it justabout like acceptance. And the
(51:17):
parent needs to make sure thatthey make the kid very
comfortable with themselves. Andthey need to teach them that in
this world, they are veryspecial, you know, and again,
they are important, as much asimportant as everyone else.
Yeah, absolutely, really, reallyimportant, beautiful sentiments,
(51:38):
and about their sense ofequality in the world. And so
just thinking as we draw to aclose Musa, so just thinking about
the series question, I'minterested in your thoughts on
the series question, Can art saveus? And obviously, that can be
answered in in many differentways. And also, you know, coming
(52:00):
from, from Africa, South Africa,there's a rich history of arts,
of creative societies, althoughI think you've noted, there's
also been a real loss ofinvestment in the arts, and it's
something we're struggling with,in the UK today. But what is
(52:20):
your view on that idea? Can artsave us?
Um, I think, you know, in termsof South Africa, I would say it's
just about priorities in itright now, the arts is just
not a priority in South Africa,because there's, there's like an
economy challenge that, youknow, we're facing, and we need,
(52:44):
we're still trying to actuallyfix it. And again, with, with
most Africans, it's more oflike, I don't know how to
explain it but the arts is whatdescribes us, you know, because
(53:06):
we, we do a lot of things we do,like traditional dances
ourselves, we do a lot ofthings. Traditionally, you know,
so it's more of like, we wouldfeel weird to go and watch
something that I actually haveto do or maybe I can go on the
(53:27):
next street and watch it forfree, you know. So it's more of
like, we need to kind of, likemake another awareness of like,
this is a different level ofperformances, you know, of art
forms, you know, and teachpeople like how important it is
to go and watch the showsbecause they are educational,
(53:47):
every show tells a story. And alot of people can relate to it.
And again, it just about like,we kind of like have to make
sure that we have people whobelieves in us who believes in
the art. So that like forinstance, there are millionaires
and billionaires in SouthAfrica, but they are not really
(54:08):
like exposed to, like thelegendary or maybe the world
class performances or worldclass arts because in Africa I
wouldn't say not reallyprioritized, but we kind of like
shifted the focus a little bitin other things than the arts. So
(54:29):
the art industry is very small.And it's yeah, it was really
like a bit harder for artists toactually like make it in South
Africa, but those who are makingit they making it you know,
internationally, not just inSouth Africa. So they tour the
world and then they performwherever they perform, and then
they come back home and they dothings they do great things, you
(54:50):
know, obviously something thatI'm going to do in life is try to
create a platform for artists coming up, you know, so that
they can, should also make itin life and make sure that the
arts is taken seriously in mycountry and all of that. So I'd
say yeah, it's a bit difficult,but it's on a shifting period
(55:14):
right now because a lot ofthings are changing, you know,
and changing for the better.
Yeah, absolutely. And it's soclearly all about positive
transformation, isn't it andyour whole life the theme of
transformation in your life isincredible from from being born
into an era with Nelson Mandelasworn in as President to your
(55:38):
own life story. It's absolutelyastonishing and very, very
inspirational. And if you don'tmind Musa, I'd like to give a
shout out to your artists manager Ben Price. For the
listeners. Ben Price is thefounder of Harbourside Artists
Management and Ben works withMusa and if you would like to
(56:01):
discover even more outstandingtalent, please go and look up
Harbourside Management and bepart of celebrating life. Musa
it's been such a pleasure totalk to you. I know you're
sharing your story often but tohear your values and your
insights and your your examples,I know you work specifically as
(56:24):
a motivational speaker. It'sbeen an absolute pleasure to
have that time with you today.Thank you very much for joining
me.
Thank you so much. Thank you forinviting me it really means a
lot.
Welcome to this podcastseries asking the question Can
art save us? I'm starting thefirst national and international
conversation about courage andcuriosity. What do these
qualities really mean and whydoes it make a big difference to
our mental, societal anddemocratic health? I talk to
award winning and diverseartists across the arts to
(00:24):
explore these qualities in theirlives and work, both to inspire
and for us all to learn. I'mexploring why we need these
qualities to help change theglobal epidemic of mental
illness, loneliness,polarization of our communities,
and even global conflicts. Ifthe arts cultivate courage and
curiosity, I'm asking thequestion, Can art save us? And my
(00:50):
guest today is an outstandingworld class dancer and a Master
of making the impossiblepossible. His dance techniques
and innovations exceed all ideasof what we typically think
mobility is, or what we thinkathleticism or able bodied
means. Musa Motha has won thehearts and minds of 1000s around
(01:11):
the world. He's celebrated as anational hero in his home
country of South Africa. And nowbased in London, England, he's
equally loved. You may have seenhis breakthrough UK performance
on the hit TV series Britain'sGot Talent. With Simon Cowell at
the helm, Musa achieved anhistoric first, the first ever
(01:33):
group Golden Buzzer was struckafter the screaming if not
hysterical insistence of theaudience, a shower of love and
gold saturated the stage inreturn for a dance performance
that was one of awe anddisbelief. Why? Musa Motha had a
leg amputated at the age of 11.At 28 his dance performances
(01:56):
take flight, his spins takecharge of any stage, and his
ballet posture could hold up askyscraper. But the essence of
his core strength is courage,firm self-belief and faith.
Hello, Musa and thank you verymuch for joining me today.
Thank you for the invite.
(02:17):
I'm so pleased we can talk. Iknow you're busy and I know you're
in a busy setting. But I'mreally looking forward to
talking to you today. Thank youagain for making the time.
Thank you. I'm looking forwardto sitting with you as well.
Oh, lovely. Well, Musa, one ofthe things I found interesting
when I was doing my research, Isaw a news report that had been
(02:39):
shot in South Africa. And thereporter was saying that your
name Musa actually means hope.And I've also read it can mean
visionary and great messenger.So I was curious about the
heritage of your name and whatyou understand it to mean.
Oh, yes. So my name has like,different definitions. So first
(03:01):
of all, yeah, it's hope. Andthen the other one is grace, you
know, yeah, and again, it justabout like, my mom told me this
message about like, the namethat she gave me Musa actually
being having like, a good heart,and always being, you know,
(03:21):
giving those positive vibespositive energies at all times.
I mean, it couldn't have been abetter chosen name, could it in
terms of how this has manifestedin terms of your purpose in
life? Would you say that itreally helps reinforce that
purpose that you want toinstill positive messages,
(03:43):
encourage people in terms ofbelief, self belief, or faith?
Yeah, for sure. I mean, that's,I believe that that's my purpose
in it. Because like, right now,I'm in a stage where I actually
go do my job, you know, becauseI want to serve people, I want
to restore their belief inthemselves, you know, always be
(04:05):
positive, even if you can be inthe midst of that negative
stuff. But you can always, youknow, drift back, find
positives, and then live offthe positive all the time and
believe in yourself and knowthat nothing is impossible
in it.
Absolutely and at the same time,your story, your life story is
(04:25):
even more active than hope youreally do make things happen.
You're actively involved in yourown transformation. And I
wondered, for listeners thataren't familiar yet with your
story, what lies behind yourextraordinary ability as a
dancer. Would you like toexplain how your life changed at
(04:48):
the age of 10 and 11?
Oh, yes, absolutely. So um, Iused to be a football player at
age like 10, 9, 10, 11 and thenthere was a time when I got kicked
on my knee but I wouldn't say it wasa cause of the event, but it was
just like a coincidence and anoutlet of what
(05:12):
was going to happen. And afterthat, my knee was getting
swollen every day. And then it got big and I started to go to
the doctors and stuffbut they couldn't find anything
until my mom took me to, to to the, to the doctor to the
specialist. And then we didtheir surgical process
(05:33):
called a biopsy, where they takelike a bone marrow, and then
they go do the test. And that'swhen they came back with I was
positive with cancer, and thenthey diagnosed me. And then
that's where I started to takemy, they recommended me to take
the chemotherapy. And then yeah,I think after two, after two
(05:55):
weeks of taking it, they werelike, No, we suggest you to, to
go through amputation, becauselike, we don't know how far it's
traveled and all because it tooktook so long to come to the
hospital and doctors. So yeah,that's what that's what we
actually faced. Yeah, it was, itwas not really like a traumatic
story for me, you know, becauseI've got sick for a long time
(06:17):
before I could get diagnosedwith cancer. So for me, it was a
solution. In the end, we made thedecision as a collective of
family. It was a thing of like,yes, let's do it. Let's go
through this.
Yeah, because you've said thatpart of your transformation,
(06:39):
even at that young age was thatyou took charge of your life.
How would you explain that, andparticularly at such a young
age, when this was happening toyou?
I guess I've always beenpositive, you know, because my
character haven't changed eversince I was young. So it was
just about, like, always findingthe positive sides of
(07:01):
everything, you know, and again,it's just about like, what I
wanted in life, what I needed,you know, I knew what I wanted.
And when anytime I know what Iwant, I go for it, you know, and
I'm the type of person whoweighs the possibilities of
something, if I want to buy acar, I will, I will just like
(07:21):
calculate it. Like, okay, thisis how much I need to put my
energy into this. And will I beable to afford it? Will I be
able to get the energy out ofthat? Will I be able to deal
with the consequences of thesituation. And that's
actually what motivates me as ayoung person. And that's the
strategy that I've been workingon. I've been using all my life.
(07:45):
Because I remember even like,when I started to play football,
I was actually like thinkingabout a lot. Oh, am I gonna be
able to get to the superstarlevel? Or what is this? And if I
don't see myself being asuperstar, then I don't
literally, like, try to dothat. Even with dance. I started
thinking about like, Oh, am Igoing to make it to the
(08:07):
mainstream stages and all ofthat and then I started seeing
that. And then that's where Iwas like, okay, cool, then yes,
let's do it. So I always havethat self drive thing going on
every time.
Yeah. So you really do setyourself enormously high
standards. And the ironies inyour life are extraordinary,
because you've said that younever saw yourself as a dancer,
(08:30):
as a dancer, of course, you hadinterests in soccer. You never
saw yourself as a dancer, youthen lose a leg after a life
changing operation. And then youbecome an outstanding dancer.
And you've said, and you've said'dance chose me.' What what did
(08:51):
that choice feel like? How didit happen? How did it come and
find you?
It's actually a story that I always tell, which is a story of
how a man lose like middle aged,38 or 40, you know. So he
came to me after my performance.I was I was performing like a
(09:12):
street dance type of thing goingon. It was a competition. So
after my performance, he camedown, and then he actually
hugged me, he was crying. Andthen at the time, I was like,
confused what's going on? And hetold me that he was depressed
and all that and that night, hewas going to commit suicide and
all but after seeing myperformance, he was like, he
actually literally changed hismind. So at that point, I was
(09:36):
like, okay, so how many, howmany of these type of people
have I actually saved their liveswith what I do on stage? And for
me it was just about like, I'mdoing this for fun in it. I was
doing it for that. It was justlike, an extra moral thing for
me until I took it serious. Andthen at that point, I realized
(09:59):
okay, this is it. You knowwhat, I found my purpose. And
then I started taking it seriousbecause for me, I mean, studying
dancing was just a thing it wasfor like flourishing and all of
that, because it was a thingback then, you know, like street
dancing is so cool. You know, Iwant to be cool as well, and all
of that, but I never thought Iwould take it serious and make a
(10:19):
career out of it. So that'sactually how it found me, drove
me to a place where I didn'tknow I would find myself. And I
was like, Okay, why not? Youknow, let's just do it.
Yeah, so this extraordinarystory of someone that was about
to take their own life, reallyaffirms your choice to really
(10:42):
focus on dance and invest indance. So that must have come
with an enormous sense ofresponsibility as well, when
someone shares such a powerfulstory, that you change their
life from ending it to actuallysomehow restoring their faith
and renewing their ownpossibilities. It's a beautiful
(11:06):
story, but I imagine it givesyou a strong sense of
responsibility?
Yes, of course, of course,that's true because like,
every time, when I step onstage,I make sure that it's not about
me, but it's someone out there.You know, every time before I
step on stage, I said a littleprayer, you know, and I just
(11:29):
opened my heart to connect withthose hearts out there. And I
believe that, since I realizedthat this is a purpose for me,
so I believe that it has areason why I have to do this. So
I, yeah, it's more of like, yes,it's a responsibility, and I
have to serve it, you know,I'm serving it. I'm actually,
(11:51):
you know, kind of satisfied withit, because I love what I do.
Yeah, absolutely. And it seemsto me that your sense of service
is what grounds you in humility,you have an you have a strong
emphasis on the importance ofhumility, you know, you have
fast growing rapid success. Butyou very much remain clear on
(12:14):
the importance of humility. Andis it that sense of service that
grounds you?
Yeah, it really grounds me,always make sure that I'm
humble, but being humble is partof my, my personality, per my
character, you know, and witheverything that I'm exposed to
(12:35):
right now, you know, it reallybrings out that character,
because whenever time peopleapproached me, I'm always down
to earth, even maybe, I justrecently came across, like a
very disturbing moment, like,oh, like, someone just literally
ruined my day. And then I meetup with someone else, and they
just want to take apicture. I don't, I don't
(12:57):
literally show that energy, Idon't give them that energy. But
literally, it just changedautomatically that I become a
different person, I become calm,you know, I think about the
person, I think about how theperson feels, you know, instead
of like, thinking about mypersonal feelings.
Yeah. And, and it seems to me aswell that during, during the
(13:21):
post op treatment after youramputation, obviously
chemotherapy is can beparticularly harsh. And in your
case, it was very harsh. But youyou've also talked about the
impact on your mum, for example,you were really aware of the
emotional distress for her or,you know, as you mentioned, your
(13:46):
encounter with the man that wasfeeling suicidal, you were very
aware of your mum's own sense ofdistress. And already you were
trying to take responsibilityfor that, in terms of how you
could equally help her throughthe process.
Yeah, I mean, like, I literally,like the story of me getting
(14:10):
treatment and all, for me, it wasnot a let me just say, for me
and my family, it was nottraumatic, because, like, a
story before my diagnosis,that's the darkest story, a
story that I'll talk about in my book that I'm going to
release in a few years. Youknow, it's more of like that
story. It's, it's more of like,that's the one that brought me
(14:34):
down to my knees. You know, but,when I got cancer, when I had a
solid diagnosis, and when I wason my treatment, taking my
treatment, it was not reallythat difficult, because I was
kind of like, in a joyful momentwhere I think about like, Okay,
now, I'm not going to be I'm notgoing to be sick for a long time
(14:56):
anymore. You know, I'm gettingtreatment, I'm going to be fine,
you know, and and when theyactually, like, proposed the
amputation, I was not reallylike, traumatized and all
because like, I lost at thatpoint, I had lost the sense of
walking. So for me, it was itwas like, Okay, this is a
(15:16):
relief, at least we're going toget rid of this painful
thing, you know, and I'm goingto be able to go back to school
go back to play with other kids onit. Because I was still young,
you know? Yeah. But from for mymom was it was not really that
smooth as it was for me. BecauseI guess she was also like,
thinking about like, okay, mychild was like this, and then
(15:38):
now, he's completely gonnachange and all of that, you
know, but, you know, everythinghappens for a reason, I know
that I went through whatever Iwent through, for a solid reason.
And that reason is actuallylike, you know, resonating right
now is like, projected into whatis happening today.
Yeah, and even when you reflecton the time you were kicked in
(16:02):
the knee, that very much had areason, didn't it because
perhaps that kick was whattriggered something that needed
to be found as soon as possiblefor example.
Oh yes for sure I am, I'mlike a true believer of like,
everything happens for a reason,you know, and I'm religious. Even
(16:25):
if I can get hit by a car today,when I wake up, I'm gonna say,
Okay, thank you, God forwhatever he did. I don't know
why he did that. But there's areason for it. And a few days
later, or a few months later,I'm gonna see why that happened.
You know, so we, I am, like,I'm, like, 100%, believing in,
like, everything happens for areason. And I guess that's,
(16:47):
that's what makes me stronger.Because like, even when I lose
something, or lose someone, ordon't make it to something else,
or something that is not thatliterally not working in my
life, I find a positive side ofsaying, Okay, this is not for
me, or this person was not meantto be in my life, or this was
not meant to be in my life, orthis was not meant to happen,
(17:09):
you know, or I'm not ready yet.You know, so those things kind
of, like, keep me on my toes andkeep me positive at all times.
Yeah, it's a really strong levelof awareness in terms of how you
interpret everything. And when,again, when I look at your life
story, it does very much feeleven more than a transformation.
(17:31):
It's like a rebirth. Or it'seven like a reincarnation. And I
know that you've mentionedelsewhere, I think during
treatment, you may, you may evenhave experienced some degree of
resuscitation attempts. And tome that really reinforced this
is a rebirth. You you've had toreally, almost disappear in
(17:56):
order to come back as who youare today.
Yes, for sure. That's true. Youknow, like, because there's a
moment where I was like, in themiddle of taking chemotherapy,
and I was so deformed. I was sodark didn't have hair. My mom even
(18:16):
couldn't see me like sheliterally told me like a few
years ago, she's like you knowthat day when she walked in and
in my ward, and then she put herbag down and then she walked
out again. And she startedlooking for me outside. Because
she didn't know that was me and then she came back, she came
back crying. And I was like,what was going on? And in that,
(18:39):
at that time, I didn'tunderstand. But when she told me
like now, now, now, I was like,oh, okay, so you didn't see me.
So I take that as like, therewas literally a transformation
like, there was a rebirth.
Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely arebirth and such a shifting
identity. And it seems thatshifting identity is physical,
(19:02):
it's spiritual, it's mental.It's literally a top to toe
transformation. And I read thatwhen you first started to
embrace dance with with friends.Hip-hop, and Pantsula was
(19:22):
probably the initial startingpoint. Is that right? Was it was
it that kind of street dance butspecific as well to Pantsula,
which is unique, I think, toSouth Africa.
Yeah, it was, there is anotherone called S’bujwa
and it has alittle bit of Pantsula.
(19:44):
Yeah.
Yeah. So was it like a whole newcommunity that was wrapped
around you when you started toembrace street dance? Oh, yes.
Yes, definitely. Like everyonein the neighborhood was a
dancer. So that's what actuallydrew me into that.
Oh, lovely. So that must havebeen almost like, energy pouring
(20:06):
into you if you're surrounded byother dancers. Would you say
that, that energy really helpeddrive you forward?
Yeah, for sure. Yes. Because I,every time when I danced they
like, pushed me up and then andagain, it was so satisfying for
me to see them buckling down,you know, like dancing and all
(20:28):
of that. So, yeah, it was a itwas a good drive for me.
Yeah. And just to give listenerscontext, could you could you
tell us, where where you grew, grew up? What were the what
were the social conditions likeof where you grew up? And also,
what year were you born Musa?
Oh, I actually grew up in, I wasborn in 19 95/10 of June, was
(20:56):
born in a neighborhood in the southern
side of Johannesburg in SouthAfrica. And it's kind of like a
township more than, you know,suburbs. And yeah, it was
suburbs, I don't know how todescribe it. Yeah, yeah. It's,
(21:17):
it's a cool place where it'slike, everyone has like this
unity, you know, and people arealways on the streets. And the
street culture is very, very,like, you know, prioritized at
that point. And, yeah, I guessit was just about, like, being
on being on the streets all thetime, you know, playing, seeing
(21:40):
other people doing their things,you know, everyone is minding
their own business. It's allabout hustling, you know. So
yeah.
It's really interesting, becausethe reason I asked what year you
were born, so you were born in1995 and of course, in 1994,
Nelson, Nelson Mandela was swornin as president. So again, your
(22:05):
your entire life is abouttransformation, you were born
into one of the most importanttimes in history that absolutely
incredible transformation fromsuch cruel decades of an
apartheid system into new hope,and human rights and equality
(22:28):
with Nelson Mandela. So I'mimagining this must have had
such a huge impact, positiveimpact on your identity. Growing
up, did you really look towardspeople like Nelson Mandela or
Desmond Tutu, for example?
Yes, I mean, those, those twoare the icons, you know, and
(22:52):
they made sure that we findcomfortability in the life that
we live in, and again like,you know, I've literally felt
that transition, you know,because when I was growing up, I
could feel I could see thepeople changing from being
nervous all the time to tryingto be comfortable, you know. And
(23:16):
yeah, I'm looking at this, like,a perfect example of like, how
my character was built. I'm thetype of person who thinks about,
like, how other people feel. AndI want to make people
comfortable. And I want to makepeople you know, happy at all
times. You know, it's not aboutme, but it's about like,
changing other people's lives.So, so yeah, I look up to them
(23:38):
that literally, like there's alot of people like Chris Hani,
there's other people that I canname that from, you know, South
Africa, that made a hugedifference. And I've learned
about them, you know, at schooland in my private times, you
know.
It's incredible, isn't itbecause, of course, just taking
(24:01):
Nelson Mandela as, as oneexample. It really does
demonstrate, doesn't it theimportance of struggle, the
importance of struggle, and alsowhat's possible, even when we
think it's impossible, and theyseems to really feed into your
(24:22):
identity and who you are, andhow you've changed the word
impossible.
Yeah, for sure. I mean, talkingabout our late Dr. Nelson
Mandela, he he was like a truedefinition of a peacemaker. So
he would sacrifice his happinessto make other people happy. And
(24:44):
he would sacrifice his personallife to make the nation happy
and to get the what what's bestfor them minute so yeah, for me,
it was very encouraging and itwas inspiring as well to grow up
into to an environment wherepeople are actually like,
rooting for this one person whochanged our lives. And it's so
(25:08):
like, oh, I used to sit, I usedto sit with my, with my grandma,
and ask her questions that yo,how was it with this era of
apartheid and all that, youknow, and she used to tell me
the stories, how they lived,what they did, you know, and
what other people did to themand all of that. And it was so
sad and traumatic, you know, andthat's where I appreciate what
(25:30):
Nelson Mandella, like Chris Hani, and then other people
did, too, did for us, you know,they changed, they really
changed our life. And it is forthe best now. You know, I mean,
our country is actually close tobeing a better country, you
know, because of people like Dr.Nelson Mandela.
Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. Youwere born into such an
(25:55):
incredible time oftransformation. And isn't it
lovely, in so many ways thatyour life is also about
transformation, and also aboutbeing a messenger of positive
transformation?
Yeah, to that, yeah.
It's beautiful. So I wasinterested in terms of the
(26:18):
context of your family growingup in South Africa how
important faith was. How,how much difference did faith
make to you to your family? Andwhether what happened to you
even developed your sense ofspiritual curiosity about life
(26:39):
and the purpose of life?
Oh, yeah, faith, faith is a veryimportant thing. It's like a
primary primary factor in myfamily, you know, basically, in
like, you know, African, Africanpeople, like, it's, it's a thing
that we hold on to faith, and webelieve in our faith, you know,
(27:00):
and again, it's all about like,knowing how to use it, knowing
how to learn the basic, like thebasics of life, you know, in in
so many different ways. Like,for instance, right, when, when
I was taught how this thingcalled life works is like, the
(27:20):
world, the world itself, likeplanet Earth has its own
language, which is what wespeaking for the whole universe,
understand the language offrequencies. So that is why we
use as Africans, we use morefaith and belief in a lot of the
because when you believe insomething, you put your mind
(27:41):
into it. And automatically, whenyou put your mind into it, you
send in frequencies to theuniverse and the universe comes
down to it, they respondimmediately. And then you get
that that is why you get like alot of people who are like, who
are seeing most poor get poorer,the rich, get richer, as you
(28:02):
know, the rich get richer, isbecause of the mindset that they
like, someone who's poor willalways think about like, oh my
god, I'm so sad, oh, my God, I'mgoing to, you know, get bad
vibes today and all that andalready they attract in those
things. And that's why Iactually came into like,
manifestations, praying and allof that, because I believe in
(28:25):
manifestation so much, that mydreams, all my dreams, I write
them down every day, you know, Ihave a system that I'll use, so
that I always have that, thatkind of like energy around it
surrounding me. And it alsohelps me to protect my aura, it
also helps me to clean up myaura and to make sure
(28:46):
that when every time I meet upwith people, they get positive
energy from me, you know, andpraying as well, in the
spiritual field. It's a veryimportant thing. You know, as I
say, I'm a religious person, Ibelieve in God, you know, and I
always take God as like, this ismy father, we have a
relationship, what is ourrelationship, I talk to him
(29:07):
every day I pray every day, whenI when I'm about to do
something, I talk to him as forthe guidance and all of that,
and if I don't believe in whatI'm saying, then I know that
nothing will happen so I have tobelieve in what I'm saying. So
that comes with faith. And whenyou believe in something, you
have to do something you have toreact on it and you need to
(29:27):
create a rhythm around whateverthey're doing. If you create a
rhythm a rhythm willautomatically create a trance
and when you get a trance, trance,trance is something that you
cannot control is an energy thatis that is like instilled or
that is created and it actsindependently so you cannot
control a trance. So when youwhen you get into a trance
(29:49):
that's where actually like a lotof things are happening. So you
you create the rhythm, therhythm creates a trance. And
then right now I'm in the midstof trance, where energies are
just flowing the way I createdthem. You know, so it's like
positive vibes all the time. Ialways get positive things from
(30:11):
all different life aspects fromdifferent corners of the world,
you know, because I manifestedthis and now it's in a trance
state. And when it's in trance,I mean, I can't control it. That
is right now. I feel so blessed.I feel I feel so lucky to be in
a state. I mean, I am today. AndI feel like you said before
(30:33):
earlier about theresponsibility, I feel like it's
when I transmit right now.Because automatically when
someone comes to me and say, YoMusa, I have a problem. I'm
automatically thinking about howcan I help this person? I have
to help them, you know? Andyeah, I guess.
Yeah.
(30:55):
It's, it's lovely tohear such, you know, such
enthusiasm. And in that, in thatexperience, and, and trance is
really important. Other artistshave referred to that and often
through rhythm, often throughdance, often through music. And
it seems to be a reallyimportant quality that's gifted
from the arts. And anotherimportant reason why we need a
(31:19):
healthy relationship with thearts in order to experience
these things. You're very clearabout positive manifestations as
well as face and you're talkingabout intention having clear
intention. So we know that, youknow, as we were talking about,
you know, the terrible historyof apartheid in South Africa,
(31:40):
there are systemic, oppressiveforces against people. But
you're also asserting theimportance of intention of self
belief in order to manifestchange.
Oh, yeah, for sure. Definitely.
So can you remember the day whenyou reflected on the word
(32:04):
impossible? And recognized youcould change that to I'm
possible? Can you remember thatday and what was happening?
Well, I'll be lying. If I say Iremember the day but I would say
the era was when I wastransitioning from high school
(32:29):
to college. Because like, that'swhere my career was actually,
like getting more stronger. Youknow, and I was playing football
with able bodies, you know?And that's where I was like, you
know, what, I've literally metup with amputees and like, Yeah,
let's do this. And then most ofthem, they can't do it, you
know? And it's a mindset thing Iknow, but they always say,
(32:54):
that's impossible to do and thenand try it. And then it happens
that we are actually like, oh,okay, so I break this word
impossible. We know that nothingis really impossible until
you try it. And then you see thatokay, it's not impossible. So
yeah, I guess I don't, it's oneof those things that I actually
(33:15):
caught along the way. I waslike, Oh, okay. Yes. Yeah, I, I
break this word, you know, andI am possible. I am a true
definition of possibilities, youknow, so yeah.
Yeah. So I happy evolution interms of your own mindset,
because it's, it's veryinteresting, isn't it that the
(33:39):
loss of a leg gave you a newmindset that's so powerful in so
many ways?
Yeah, for sure. It made me growup so quick, you know, mature so
quick. And it made me appreciateevery moment of my life because
(34:02):
I've I've literally faced death, like I've literally like
saw it with my own eyes youknow, like, you know, I'm not
even joking. I feel like youknow, when every time I tell the
story of like, because I haven'ttold my mom this story where I
literally got I don't I don'tremember what what are those
things called when someone likewhen your heart stops and they
(34:24):
electrify you?
Oh, they have to shock you?That's right. Yeah,
that like yeah, I literally wentthrough that and then during
that process, I can still see itvisibly like what was happening
at that time and how I felt,you know, the first time this
happened the second time, thethird time, you know, like, you
(34:47):
know, it made me feel so I needto appreciate it that I need to
appreciate the moment of like, Ineed to hold on to the feeling
of fear. Musa now you aretransitioning into this person,
so how are we doing this? Andthen God was there he was at my
side the whole time. And that'swhere I started to think about
(35:08):
Okay, so losing a leg isactually not a loss, it's
actually a gain, you know, Igained something I gained a lot,
you know, because, come to thinkabout it, you know, I would have
maybe right now, I would havebeen like, maybe a biochemist or
a chemical engineer, you know,or something else, you know, I'm
(35:29):
not saying it's a bad thing, butI wouldn't, I wouldn't be at the
space where I'm at today, if Iwas not, in the situations that
I've encountered, you know, so Iappreciate every moment that I
went through, and it's more oflike, some people would, would
be really weird for me, they'relike, Oh, so you really
(35:49):
appreciate that you lost a leg,bro. That's like, yeah, you
know, you will never understandbecause right now, I'm a moving
billboard, you know, like,wherever that wherever I go,
people look at me, you know, andI look good. You know, I make sure
that I look good. So that I canfeel good, you know, and make me
feel nice that, you know,wherever I go, some people would
(36:11):
just come to me and say, Yo,bro, you're truly an
inspiration. I'm like, you don'teven know me like, yeah, but
for the fact that you, you tookcharge of like, you want to be
this person and you want toinfiltrate this into society,
you know, really means a lot.I'm like, Okay, there's a lot,
there's like just a lot ofthings that I actually encounter
that I don't actually talkabout, you know, but yeah.
(36:36):
It seems well, would you say,Musa that you were tested with
such extreme demands of couragethat it was that test and the
fact that you were willing tofind that courage that you are,
where you are today and who youare today that it was a bigger
(37:01):
story in many ways than theamputation, although that is a
huge story. But it was a biggerstory in many ways in terms of
that test of faith and courageand having the courage to make
your own bold choices?
Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I mean, youknow, I'm gonna start...
(37:25):
Okay, yeah. I mean,you know, what, for me, it's
just about, like, appreciatinglife and making sure that I know
my purpose. And I always alignmy energy according to my
purpose, you know, because rightnow I'm, I'm kind of like,
(37:47):
getting into a position where Ialign all my energies into one
thing, and then I likedistribute it to people, you know,
and make sure you make themaware, that finding your purpose
is really important, because youjust flow, everything just
flows, you know, easier,everything that flows without
(38:09):
putting any extra efforts, youknow, but the most difficult
thing is finding your purpose,that's the most difficult thing.
Because when you find it afterfinding it, it's just like, you're
just relaxing, and everythinghappens automatically. So just
about like appreciating life,you know, being positive at all
times, and making sure that youdon't focus on negative stuff,
but I mean, I can encounter likehundreds, or 1000s of negative
(38:34):
stuff. But if I find that onething that is positive, I'm
going to focus on it, andautomatically it's going to delete
all the negative stuff aroundme, you know, so that's how I
actually view life. And that'show I live my life every day.
And I wondered if dance and yourown choreography, I wondered if
(38:57):
that was an expression ofprayer, and not necessarily
always storytelling, how wouldyou describe dance in your own
choreography?
Um, I'm having fun with dance,you know. But at the same time,
a dance for me it's more thanjust the performance. It's more
(39:19):
of like, a spiritual way of, youknow, celebrating something or
maybe if I'm trying to I'mtrying to like tell a story. I
use dance, you know, dance forme, is a lot of things, you
know, which are different comes with different situations and
different platforms environment.But most importantly, it just
(39:40):
about me sending messages outthere and being a messenger from
God and you know, the highestenergies. Yeah,
yeah. Because on the tremendousday, your your television
history day when the GoldenBuzzer was struck by all of the
all of the judges you at onepoint actually almost fell to
(40:05):
the stage you were kneelingperhaps in shock, it was
emotionally overwhelming. Imean, the space, the audience
was literally screaming andchampioning you and supporting
you in every way possible. Whatwhat was happening for you, when
you were kneeling? What washappening then in your mind?
(40:27):
Oh, it was a moment ofappreciation. So when the judges
pressed the buzzer, all of them. Iwas in a, in a moment of I was,
I was actually in a disbelief oflike, Yo, God, you literally
(40:48):
came through for me, you know,because that day was so hard.
Like, literally a day before Iwas coming from Southampton, to
London, you know, and then I gotto London very late at
like, I think 12pm or 12am, 11pm,you know, and then I didn't get
(41:10):
enough sleep, I had to wake upvery early in the morning to
catch a train to Manchester todo the show to record the, to
do the audition. And again I had like an ankle injury, I
had a shoulder injury, theperformance was really not that
smooth. So like, there was a lotof things that were happening at
(41:31):
the same time. And it was astruggle for me, like everything
was just dragging for me to getthere and to perform. It was
just like, you know, painful and stuff, you know, because
my shoulder's really giving meit you know, and again, when I
kneel down, I was just thinkingGod, the first thing that I did
(41:54):
was to pray I prayed. And it gotme emotional to like to an
extent, but I was like, Okay,God, what is this? What
happened? What was going on? Youknow, and I felt a sense of
like, God was trying to tell methat, Yo, this is just the
beginning of this era, I wantyou to know that we are about to
(42:17):
start a new belief, a new life.And this is what I need you to
actually focus on. And for me,it was a moment of like, I, I
didn't know how to react toanything, you know, but I was
just being thankful to what thesituation was, you know, and
yeah, I was just appreciatinglife that I had and that
(42:39):
moment, actually, yeah.
Yeah, yeah, I know, it's areally powerful and a really
beautiful moment. And leading upto that incredible moment,
obviously, you know, you'd beendancing for several years. And,
you know, right, from physio andrehab post op, you've worked
extremely hard on your, yourphysical capability. And I was
(43:05):
interested in how pivotaljoining the Vuyani dance theater
was for you. And the kind offreedom that you discovered
there, in order to become thedancer, you are now?
Joining the Vuyani theatrewas, was actually a blessing,
(43:27):
because I was a street dancerbefore. And then I joined in, I
think 2018. Yes, 2018 and thefounder of the company, Gregory
Maqoma, who's currently mymentor, he took me in, you know,
he was like, Yo, I'm not goingto treat you special or
something, you know, you'regoing to be as equal as everyone
(43:48):
in this company, you know. Andthen I took it in, you know, I
took it in, I digested the wholething, you know, and it was a
moment of appreciation at thattime, and I work so hard, and
they give you, they give youthe freedom to explore and the
freedom to be creative in yourown space, in your own time, in
your own feeling. And it gave methe sense of professionalism,
(44:12):
because that was the first timeI actually worked for a company
that was my first job in mylife, you know, and that was a
dream. And also, as a dancer,you want to be in a space in a
safe space financially, youknow, and again, you want to be
in a space where you will beable to enjoy yourself and as
well as working so hardshowcasing your talent, you
(44:33):
know, and that's what thecompany gave me. You know, like
my, I mean, like, my firstinternational tour was with
Vuyani Dance Theatre And yeah andother things that happened, you know,
like it was just so amazing tobe in the company.
Yeah, and so supported and itseems that it unleashed perhaps
(44:57):
the freedom to have your owncreative curiosity. And And
would that have included, wasthat the time where you decided
that you may only use one ofyour crutches even?
Oh, yes. I mean, this strategyactually came up during the
(45:18):
process of training. So Irealized that sometimes I just
don't need both crutches but Ineed one. Because if, if maybe
for instance, I'm using two,there'll be like, you know,
restrictions and all. And then Ijust use one, sometimes I don't
use crutches at all. Sometimes Iuse both of them. So it's just a
(45:38):
thing of like, depends on thechoreography actually depends on
the choreography, like, what isdemanded from me? What is
requested from me at that pointin time? So, yeah.
And also, with yourentrepreneurial interests, I
understand, you know, thatcreative curiosity, if you like,
has manifested in terms of yourown innovations of the design
(46:01):
for crutches, could you tell usa little about that? What's
happening?
Yes. Yeah, for sure. It's, it'sa story that actually developed
myself, which came from theexperiences that I encountered
with dancing, walking, you know,doing all those things, because
I realized that the crutchesthat are comfortable for walking
(46:25):
only, and that they are crutchesthat are comfortable for
dancing, and there are crutchesthat are specifically
comfortable for playingfootball, you know, and running,
and all of that. So, I want tofuse all of those, put them in
in one thing, and make sure thatthey are comfortable, but they
are strong at the same time. Andit's some sort of like a hustle.
(46:49):
You know, for us amputees who use crutches like, you know, like,
I've seen like my, my footballteam team members, they carry
like two crutches, two pairs ofcrutches, you know, they have
their working ones which arecomfortable for working, but
they're not strong enough toplay football with. And then now
we have to stretch to the onesthat we play football with. So
(47:11):
for me, I want to, I want tomake it so comfortable that you
use one crutch for all theoccasions, you know, so yeah,
I'm still developing everythingnow. And yeah, it's coming
alright, you know, meeting fewinterested, interesting people,
you know, and they actuallyhelping me out with research
that I'm doing.
(47:32):
Yeah. And it's another exampleof positive transformation,
isn't it that, again, things canchange, there can be positive
transformations and, andsomething like that will create
so much more enablement won't it for how people participate and
how people can use their ownbodies.
Yeah, to Yeah, that's true.
So there's just a couple morequestions just as we need to
(47:56):
start coming to a close, Musa.And one of the things I'm
interested in asking you aboutas this season is published on
World Children's Day. And WorldChildren's Day, is celebrated on
November the 20th, led by theUnited Nations, and I was
(48:17):
interested in, I was interestedin what your message to children
everywhere might be, you know,as you know, as a child, what
struggle is, you know, whatdiscrimination is, forces of
oppression are, but you alsoknow lessons of compassion. And
(48:38):
I wondered in terms of WorldChildren's Day, how you would
like to see the arts reachchildren and how the arts can
teach children?
Oh, yes, there's so manydifferent ways of doing that.
Because with me, I just workwith my experiences, you know,
(49:02):
and remember this other day,when I was young, and this other
old man came, and he wasactually teaching us about,
like, how to treat people, youknow, and again, how to expect
love, like how to reciprocateenergies, you know, and it was
so important for me right nowthat I see, okay, that person
(49:23):
taught me how to actually treatother people, you know, would be
like, different abilities ornormal person, but it's
important for children to begroomed at the early stage, you
know, so that they know thatthis is how you interact with
certain people in life. Thereare people who are like this,
(49:45):
you know, there are people whoare like so and so you know, so
you need to know how to react tothem. Like for instance, you can
write a book, you know, achildren's book, and teach them
how to treat like, you know,maybe differently able people, you
know, of course, they're goingto implement that. And they're
going to change how they seelife, you know, and again, with
(50:08):
children who are actually encountering the discrimination
and all can be. I mean, it comeswith different things with which
comes from the environment, andhow people who are close to you
or treating you, you know, itwill be like, whatever the
(50:31):
situation you're in, try, try,try going through the acceptance
first, you know, you acceptyourself, love yourself, nothing
will ever, you know, touch, youknow, distruct you in life, you
know, so, it's more of like, youneed to accept yourself, be in
love with yourself first, andthen know that no one will touch
(50:54):
you. Because even me right now,I think about lots of of
things that I, that I appreciatein life, you know, and I know
that I love myself and I lookgood, I make sure that I always
look good, because I love I lovelooking good, you know, and
making me feel good, you know,and the confidence. So I would
say like with the kids, it justabout like acceptance. And the
(51:17):
parent needs to make sure thatthey make the kid very
comfortable with themselves. Andthey need to teach them that in
this world, they are veryspecial, you know, and again,
they are important, as much asimportant as everyone else.
Yeah, absolutely, really, reallyimportant, beautiful sentiments,
(51:38):
and about their sense ofequality in the world. And so
just thinking as we draw to aclose Musa, so just thinking about
the series question, I'minterested in your thoughts on
the series question, Can art saveus? And obviously, that can be
answered in in many differentways. And also, you know, coming
(52:00):
from, from Africa, South Africa,there's a rich history of arts,
of creative societies, althoughI think you've noted, there's
also been a real loss ofinvestment in the arts, and it's
something we're struggling with,in the UK today. But what is
(52:20):
your view on that idea? Can artsave us?
Um, I think, you know, in termsof South Africa, I would say it's
just about priorities in itright now, the arts is just
not a priority in South Africa,because there's, there's like an
economy challenge that, youknow, we're facing, and we need,
(52:44):
we're still trying to actuallyfix it. And again, with, with
most Africans, it's more oflike, I don't know how to
explain it but the arts is whatdescribes us, you know, because
(53:06):
we, we do a lot of things we do,like traditional dances
ourselves, we do a lot ofthings. Traditionally, you know,
so it's more of like, we wouldfeel weird to go and watch
something that I actually haveto do or maybe I can go on the
(53:27):
next street and watch it forfree, you know. So it's more of
like, we need to kind of, likemake another awareness of like,
this is a different level ofperformances, you know, of art
forms, you know, and teachpeople like how important it is
to go and watch the showsbecause they are educational,
(53:47):
every show tells a story. And alot of people can relate to it.
And again, it just about like,we kind of like have to make
sure that we have people whobelieves in us who believes in
the art. So that like forinstance, there are millionaires
and billionaires in SouthAfrica, but they are not really
(54:08):
like exposed to, like thelegendary or maybe the world
class performances or worldclass arts because in Africa I
wouldn't say not reallyprioritized, but we kind of like
shifted the focus a little bitin other things than the arts. So
(54:29):
the art industry is very small.And it's yeah, it was really
like a bit harder for artists toactually like make it in South
Africa, but those who are makingit they making it you know,
internationally, not just inSouth Africa. So they tour the
world and then they performwherever they perform, and then
they come back home and they dothings they do great things, you
(54:50):
know, obviously something thatI'm going to do in life is try to
create a platform for artists coming up, you know, so that
they can, should also make itin life and make sure that the
arts is taken seriously in mycountry and all of that. So I'd
say yeah, it's a bit difficult,but it's on a shifting period
(55:14):
right now because a lot ofthings are changing, you know,
and changing for the better.
Yeah, absolutely. And it's soclearly all about positive
transformation, isn't it andyour whole life the theme of
transformation in your life isincredible from from being born
into an era with Nelson Mandelasworn in as President to your
(55:38):
own life story. It's absolutelyastonishing and very, very
inspirational. And if you don'tmind Musa, I'd like to give a
shout out to your artists manager Ben Price. For the
listeners. Ben Price is thefounder of Harbourside Artists
Management and Ben works withMusa and if you would like to
(56:01):
discover even more outstandingtalent, please go and look up
Harbourside Management and bepart of celebrating life. Musa
it's been such a pleasure totalk to you. I know you're
sharing your story often but tohear your values and your
insights and your your examples,I know you work specifically as
(56:24):
a motivational speaker. It'sbeen an absolute pleasure to
have that time with you today.Thank you very much for joining
me.
Thank you so much. Thank you forinviting me it really means a
lot.
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