February 20, 2025 • 57 mins
Jane Wright is a ceramicist, violinist and champion of community arts. A West Yorkshire born musician and artist, Jane is now based in the iconic seaside town of Margate in Kent, famous for its art history. Margate was home to the renowned water colourist Turner, considered to be the best loved English Romantic artist, and it's currently home to Tracey Emin, famously known for her confessional art. Between world class artists and the Turner Contemporary Gallery. Margate has a thriving community art scene, and Jayne is the project founder of Tiles of Joy, a community arts, Happiness Project. Over 1000 hand crafted tiles have already been made in workshops and at least 4000 people have bought one of Jane's tiles. This trail of happiness is bringing people together from all walks of life, promoting creativity and community spirit. As a ceramicist, Jane is also known for her body positive, Mermaid Army, a collection of tiles and stoneware sculptures of people who wild swim. They represent stories of nostalgia and empowerment. One sculpture represents Gill Castle, who became the first person ever to swim the channel with a stoma, raising awareness of childbirth injuries. Currently, the mermaid sculptures are touring with the message words matter, part of the campaign This Ends Now, raising awareness of male violence against women and girls. Her work consistently shows solidarity and support for the causes she cares about, including the sewing resistance, a global textile project. Her current exhibition, Long, explores the cultural significance of long hair in relation to femininity, identity and power. Jane's art is about awareness, advocacy, activism, and championing joy.
Discover Jayne Wright at the Turner Contemporary Art Gallery, Margate.
https://shop.turnercontemporary.org/collections/jayne-wright
Current Exhibition, Long, at the Liminal Gallery, Margate.
https://liminal-gallery.com/collections/jayne-wright-long
Series Audio Editor - Joey Quan.
Series Music - Courtesy of Barry J. Gibb
Closed Captions are added to all audio interviews in this series.
Read only, text transcripts of every interview, news, reviews and your host, Paula Moore, are available here: https://canartsaveus.com/
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:03):
Welcome to thispodcast series asking the
question, Can art save us? I'mstarting the first national and
international conversation aboutcourage and curiosity. What do
these qualities really mean, andwhy does it make a big
difference to our mental,societal and democratic health?
I talk to award winning anddiverse artists across the arts
(00:24):
to explore these qualities intheir lives and work both to
inspire and for us all to learn.I'm exploring why we need these
qualities to help change theglobal epidemic of mental
illness, loneliness,polarization of our communities
and even global conflict. If thearts cultivate courage and
curiosity, I'm asking thequestion, Can art save us? My
(00:49):
guest today is a ceramicist,violinist and champion of
community arts. Jayne Wright is aWest Yorkshire born musician and
artist now based in the iconicseaside town of Margate in Kent
Margate is famous for its arthistory. It was home to the
renowned watercolourist Turner,considered to be the best loved
English Romantic artist, andit's home to Tracey Emin,
(01:11):
famously known for herconfessional art. Between world
class artists and the TurnerContemporary Gallery. Margate
has a thriving community artscene, it was a joy to discover
Tiles of Joy, a community artsHappiness Project. Jayne is the
project founder of this trail ofhappiness, and over 1000 hand
crafted tiles have already beenmade in workshops. At least 4000
(01:36):
people have bought one of Jayne'stiles. This trail of happiness
is bringing people together fromall walks of life, promoting
creativity and community spirit.Jane is elevating fun, joy and
celebration, all too often, adeprivation in our daily lives.
As a ceramicist, Jayne is alsoknown for her body positive
(01:57):
Mermaid Army, a collection oftiles and stoneware sculptures
of people who wild swim. Theyrepresent stories of nostalgia
and empowerment. One sculpturerepresents Gill Castle, who
became the first person ever toswim the channel with a stoma,
raising awareness of childbirthinjuries. Currently, the mermaid
sculptures are touring with themessage #wordsmatter, part of
(02:20):
the campaign, This Ends Now,raising awareness of male
violence against women andgirls. Her work consistently
shows solidarity and support forthe causes she cares about,
including the Sewing Resistance,a global textile project. Her
current exhibition, Long, exploresthe cultural significance of
(02:41):
long hair in relation tofemininity, identity and power.
Jane's art is about awareness,advocacy and activism, and I'm
delighted she can join me todayto tell us more. Hello Jayne and
welcome
to Can art save us? Thank youvery much.
I know you've been incrediblybusy. You're only recently back
(03:04):
from New Zealand, so thank youfor making this time. I wondered
if we could start from the pointof view of your interests in
community arts and whether therewas a particular transition for
you as an artist when you wantedto focus on community arts as a
force for good?
(03:25):
I think, I think I've always hadan interest in community arts. I
think it comes from mybackground in education. So as a
design and technology teacherand a music teacher in secondary
education, I always feel a needto share projects and enable
(03:47):
learning and activities, butexperiences as well. I think
being a design technologyteacher and a violin teacher, a
music teacher, I've neverexpected the people that I've
taught to necessarily go on andbe carpenters or metal workers
or or violinists or playingorchestras, but it's all about
(04:08):
having a positive experience atsomething. And so I think the
community art is a direct linkto that. And I think as a
musician, while I have done solowork, I always like to be part
of something. So I like to bepart of a chamber music or an
orchestra. So I sometimes feellike whatever I do, I struggle
to do it on my own. Even if it'slike a birthday party, I'd much
(04:32):
rather share it with somebodyelse. So I think that's where my
love of community art comesfrom, and I feel, especially
after the pandemic, a realrecognition of that social
isolation is real. There aren'tmany opportunities for people to
meet other people and have thosesmall or large conversations
(04:53):
that I think are so important tous as human beings and to share
experiences. So I think withSocial isolation comes
loneliness and unhappiness. Andwhen I was working with a group
of women who have arrived inthis country and are trying to
learn English, they said one ofthe hardest things is just
finding people to actually talkto, because even if you go get
(05:15):
your shopping, it can be clickand collect and you may not even
speak a word to somebody else.So I think any sort of community
activity, be it art or sport,dance, shopping, gardening,
allotments, all those things arereally important for human
contact. And so I think that'swhere my desire for community
(05:39):
art comes in is just to sort ofcombat social isolation and
loneliness, which I think a realsort of problem in our society
today. Yeah, no, I completelyagree, and it's really
understanding how relevant artsand crafts are for social
connectivity as well as personalenjoyment. And I was curious,
(06:03):
Jane, in terms of your owncourage, because it was
interesting to read, and this isin relation to the fabulous
tiles of happiness project thatyou only really had the courage
to do an art project like Tilesof Happiness, because you had
moved to Margate, and I wonderedwhat that move gave you, what
(06:27):
was that shift that helped youfind the courage?
I mean, the pandemic was ahorrible thing. I was working in
London, and it was, it was adreadful thing. But there's also
positivity in that as well. Youknow, like changing your
routines and your dailyactivities and your patterns and
(06:48):
behavior and just having to lookat your life differently, I
think that's what the pandemicgave me. It gave me an
opportunity to look at the factthat I was just doing not
Groundhog Day, that wasn't mylife at all, but I'd got into
routines and doing things andand wasn't necessarily satisfied
(07:09):
or challenged or really, youknow, questioning what I was
doing. And I also have twoamazing daughters who were
growing up into incredibleindependent women with their own
lives, and I was reallyexperiencing empty nesting,
which is another thing that'sreal. I think the pandemic gave
me an opportunity to shift thefocus onto my own life and make
(07:33):
me look at what I was doing andwhat I wanted to achieve. And I
was, I was looking at, you know,what was I was doing in this
part of my life as I turned 50,what was I actually doing and
wasn't having a crisis andthinking, Oh, my God, I've got
to do something and get a bigcar. I didn't have the money to
do that anyway. I'm not verymaterialistic, actually. And I
(07:54):
just kind of thought, what, whatdo I want to achieve? And I felt
like I'd achieved beyond what Icould ever expected as a
parent, and, you know, as amother of two daughters. But
what did I want to achieve formyself? And I started to look at
where I was living and whereelse I could live and and I took
the opportunity to move out ofLondon and put myself somewhere
(08:15):
else, because I was teachingviolin online, and I could do
that anywhere. And I'd ended upin London partly because of my
daughters and their education,because, you know, you can't
move children once they get to acertain age. They hate you
forever. And I'm from Yorkshire,so I'd ended up in London, like,
a massive amount of my life, youknow, over half my life, yeah,
(08:37):
and so I looked at other places,and I was drawn to I'd always
wanted to live by the sea, andthe sea up in Yorkshire is
beautiful, but it's cold, so Istill had that London
connection. I mean, it'samazing, and getting to London
in like 90 minutes from here, soI still had the best of both
worlds. I had London and I couldlive by the sea. And I didn't
realize when I moved to Margatewhat an art scene was going to
(09:01):
grow. I mean, you're forever,you know, bumping into art and
creativity, not just in Margate,in the whole of Thanet, you
know, Ramsgate is a fantastictown, and Folkestone as well.
Folkstone's got so much going on. So we're south, you know,
surrounded by all this bubblingstuff happening in music and
arts and theater. Yeah, it'sgreat. And the LGBTQ plus
(09:27):
community here in Thanet isreally thriving and injecting so
much creativity into where welive. Yeah, it's a great place
to be, you know, yeah, and Idon't know about the other
seaside towns, I imagine thatthere's things happening there
too, you know, especially likeplaces like Blackpool and
Morecambe getting the New Eden.And so there's all these things
(09:49):
that are happening in ourseaside towns. But seaside towns
are just they're just greatplaces, aren't they? They're so
iconic. And yeah, with my tilesthat I make myself, I love
seeing landmarks that webecome really affectionate
towards and that become reallyimportant. And I love those sort
of peculiar things that weattach ourselves to. And of
(10:10):
course, it seems to be full ofthose. Yeah,
exactly because Margate and theIsle of Thanet, as it is known,
it's packed with heritage.Unfortunately, you know, there's
been a significant need forregeneration over several
decades, but nevertheless, it'spacked with heritage. I mean,
(10:31):
Margate was a jewel in the crownfor Victorians. It was high
status holiday making, certainlyas a child throughout the 70s,
you know, our summer holidayscouldn't have been any better,
just for living in Margate ornearby. And also in terms of
heritage and world classartists, Ramsgate was home to
(10:54):
Vincent van Gogh for a veryshort time, you know. So there's
such significant history there,and it seems to me that Margate
helped unlock meaning for you.In your mind, you know what you
wanted to do in meaningful ways.And perhaps that's a good point
to talk about, the tiles ofHappiness Project. Perhaps you'd
(11:14):
like to illustrate for thelisteners how the idea came
about and what's taking place,what your ambition is for the
project I
love that. You call it Tiles ofHappiness. I'm happy with that.
It's actually Tiles of Joy,okay,I've read
both, but both are such winningtitles. This is great.
(11:35):
We'll go with that as well.Tiles of Joy was, Well, what
happened was the the MermaidArmy was part of the Power of
Women Fringe Festival. Power ofWomen is this great festival in
Thanet, the Mermaid Army was partof the fringe. And so that was
2022, and then the year later,they did an open call out for an
ambitious community arts project.So along they trundled to the
(11:57):
meeting, as you do, and said,Oh, I've got an idea, what about
making a big collage, sort oflike patchwork quilt, if you
like, of ceramic tiles tocelebrate women. Because the
actual POWs theme that year in2023 was joy. So we did this
workshop, and it was tocelebrate women, and it was at
(12:18):
Margate caves, the amazingMargate caves.
Incredible even morehistory. Yeah, I couldn't
believe it. I
really panicked that peopleweren't going to come, and my
friends still teased me about ittoday, because 86 people turned
up to make tiles, and it wasmad, but the cave staff were
incredible. They just keptletting people come in, and we
(12:40):
made all these tiles. But whatwas even more amazing was it
wasn't just women that came tomake tiles to celebrate women.
It was dads and it was partnersand it was sons and brothers,
and it was amazing. And thenthat's
so significant, isn't it? Yesaway.
You know, I had to look at thefact that it didn't need to be a
(13:02):
gendered project. It could justbe Tiles of Joy.
And so it started there,and it just it just got bigger
and bigger and bigger. And Ijust really felt like I was just
sort of steering the project asbest as I could. I didn't have
any funding other than littlebits of funding here and there,
and I was paying for it byselling my own tiles. So when I
(13:25):
made my own tiles, I wasoffsetting the costs by putting
my tiles that I was selling inwith the community art tiles. So
that's how I was making it work.Wow. And as it got like 1000
tiles, I couldn't really sustainthat, but also I couldn't pay I
had to go at tiling myself, andwasn't very good. It's actually
(13:46):
harder than you think, because Ihad to create these
installations. The idea wasalways to have a constellation
of tiles, and it had temporarydisplays in in amazing places.
So 161 Northdown Road, there'san amazing little gallery there.
That's where the first displayof the tiles was, and then
(14:07):
Margate caves did a display, andit went from two boards to four
boards to six boards, and eachboard had 96 tiles on them. We
were doing workshops in thestreet in Cliftonville, and
people would just come and maketiles. It was great. It was
amazing. It was mad.
You've really evidenced anappetite, a willingness and a
(14:29):
need, haven't you, thatpeople want to be able to
participate and also respond tosomething positive. I think it's
incredibly significant that youcould highlight, you know, men,
boys, granddads, dads, sons allwanted to join in. Because,
unfortunately, there is an issuewhere men, and particularly
(14:52):
regarding mental health, therecan be such an exclusion from
where they feel they canparticipate. Or open up or do
those healthy things that justhelp with social activities and
connection. Yeah, I
was very honored that one of theworkshops that we did, a man
(15:12):
actually took the time to cometo me quietly and say how much
it meant to him because he wastrying to recover from a drink
problem he'd lost, in his words,his family and his job, and he
found it really difficultfinding places to socialize or
meet other people, and beingable to come to one of those
(15:33):
workshops was a stepping stonefor him, and he went on to
actually find a night schoolclass to do pottery, to meet
other people. He said howdifficult it was. His background
had been in laboring and things,but also in rugby. So all his
activities seemed to be alcohollinked socially. So he found it
(15:54):
very, very difficult to meetpeople in a different setting.
And he said, as a man, it wasparticularly difficult as well.
So this was a real steppingstone, and I felt so honored to
have been part of that, youknow, and for him to take the
time to tell me as well. Yeah,
which was brave of him, becauseit's opening up emotionally and
personally,
there's been a few instanceslike that where, you know, we've
(16:17):
done drop in workshops inplaces like Dreamland, and dads
will sort of drop their kidsoff, and they'll go, Oh no, it's
not, not my kind of thing. Theirmum will do it with them. And
then the children look at theirdad and go, Oh, come on, dad.
And, you know, with a little bitof encouragement, you know, dads
go on to do some of the besttiles.
Yeah, I mean, these are golddust stories, particularly the
(16:39):
example of the man brave enoughto open up about his recovery
from alcoholism and stillfinding the courage to take part
in new things. Because actually,would you agree, in general,
that it does sometimes takecourage for somebody to take
part in something new. So acommunity arts workshop, let's
(17:02):
make tiles from the outside,that just seems very fun. And
why not? But actually, that canbe a huge step to take for
somebody, because it's not aboutart in terms of, I must be
artistic, I must be especiallytalented. It's really what
you're highlighting, isn't it?It's about the joy, the fun and
(17:24):
the connectivity. Yeah.
There's twothings there to take from that.
I think, you know, gettingpeople over a threshold of a
workshop is one of the hardestthings. You know, to sign up is
difficult enough, and then toactually get into somewhere new
and be put into that position.And, you know, social anxiety.
(17:45):
Lots of people struggle withsocial anxiety, and I know I
experienced it after thepandemic. I remember walking
down more getting thinking, Oh,I'm not sure I want the pandemic
to really end. You know, I quitelike not having to go out, you
know, quite like being a bitinclusive. So I think that's
definitely something that'sstill a hangover for a lot
of people. And I think anotherthing that has been said to me
(18:08):
more than once through thisproject is how rarely we are
asked what makes us happy orwhat brings us joy, and more
rarely are we given theopportunity to express it in any
way. And so it's been reallyquite something to give people
200 grams of clay and get themto turn it into a tile and just
(18:32):
say, Look, you just have to puton there whatever makes you
happy or brings you joy. No onecan tell you it's wrong, even if
it's just playing with the clayand that's made you happy.
That's actually enough. So it'sbeen a really accessible project
for people. We've alsoencouraged people to do
something that they might nothave done normally. So we got
invited to Seasalter yesterday,to the Christian Center there to
(18:55):
they had a special gathering ofchurches, and I'm not quite sure
what I signed myself and my myhelpers up to my assistants up
to we turned up three of usyesterday, and we made 100 tiles
in two hours with the mostincredible group of people that
(19:16):
the generosity of their spiritand their creativity and the
stories they shared with us wassomething else. But even in that
environment where you've gotthis wonderful community, this
religious community of peoplesupporting each other, there was
people who were reluctant andbut it didn't take much. It
didn't take much to go. Oh,just, you know, give it a go. It
(19:37):
doesn't matter if it doesn'twork, and sure enough, they will
do it, you know, even if theyjust write on a tile piece that
feels some joy. And I think justgiving having the opportunity is
so rare.
Yeah, yeah, absolutely, it's aterrible, terrible deprivation.
In fact, spaces that helpcommunities connect to help
(20:01):
social cohesion, to help mentalhealth, and like you say,
simply, help happiness and joy.I think that statement you made
is particularly powerful thatpeople are rarely asked what
makes them happy, and even more,rarely are they asked to
document it. It's somethingwe're almost forgetting to think
(20:23):
about or to assert. I wondered,Jane, what kind of statements of
joy are you seeing appear onthese tiles? I imagine there's
such a range. We do
have repeats.
I actually jokingly said, right,that's no more rainbows. No more
rainbows. We have lots ofsunsets. We have lots of birds.
(20:46):
Obviously, we live near the sea,so the sea makes people happy.
But then we have, like,mountains, and we have
countries. My favorite ones arealways when somebody does their
mum, it's just amazing. My mummakes me happy. Family appears a
lot. Bicycles at Christmas.Obviously, Santa was big. The
(21:06):
sun storms now storms years ago,when we've had a couple of
storms, and I like a storm, wedid two workshops at Dreamland,
which were Dreamland themes. Sothey were beautiful because they
were lots of memories, and yeah,and romance, lots of love
hearts. Yeah, love makes peoplereally happy. So, yeah,
occasionally we get the odd onethat no one's done before. We've
(21:27):
had two dragons, which is quiteinteresting, but we've had
snakes, which is cool,skateboarding, football. We've
got a few teams in there thatbring people joy. No one's done
Margate FC yet, which is a bitdisappointing.
Well, I think being a kid fromMargate, I would surely have to
come up with a mod or a Vespa,because for listeners who aren't
(21:50):
familiar with this iconicseaside town, bank holiday
Mondays could not have been moredistinct, because every mod in
the world would descend onMargate or Ramsgate or Broadstairs
and it's one of my mostfond and nostalgic childhood
memories. Yeah, it's creating alovely story, isn't it? It's a
(22:12):
beautiful story. The trail is astory as well as statements of
what makes people happy. Yeah. I
mean, we had a lady yesterdaywho was visibly impaired, and
she's like, I think I can't dothis. And I have actually been
working with Kent Associationfor the Blind to adapt this
project. And she I was like, No,you'll be fine. You'll be fine.
(22:34):
Just just make marks. Clay lovesyou making marks. And she
started off really tentative,and but about the end she'd made
this beautiful tile, that it'sgot to be so beautiful to feel.
And so I think that's anotherthing, you know, just sort of
the other senses. I've had alovely message from Mencap.
There's a group of adults whowalk past one of the tile
(22:55):
installations in Margate, andthey always stop to feel the
tiles. How amazing is that?Yeah? And inclusive the tiles,
yeah, and discuss them, and theysee a different tile every day.
Yeah, that's just really lovely.Yeah,
it's wonderful. And, and ofcourse, it's so inclusive, and
so much to your credit,including your own generosity,
(23:16):
to have found a way topersonally fund this project at
the same time whilst pursuingfunding. And obviously a big
shout out to benefactorseverywhere. Jane, I'm interested
now that you live in Margate,you've got this fabulous project
underway, you're obviously goingto be very aware of Margate as a
(23:41):
significant arts destination nowin the UK. In fact, the founder
of Freeze Art Fair, he's now thenew chair of Turner Contemporary
stated, Margate is now one of theUK's most important art
destinations. What's yourexperience of that balance
between significance as an artdestination and regeneration and
(24:07):
connecting with local people andnot just an international
visitor footprint.
Oh, gosh. Well, I do believethat arts do regenerate areas in
a positive way. I'm fromBradford. So this year, Bradford
is the Cultural City 2025 andwhen a city or a town embraces
(24:31):
its creative population, and ithas a knock on effect, it brings
other people to the towns. Ithink every town, you know,
every school should be an artschool, and every town should
have a gallery. It's just reallyimportant to
offer that creativity, and Ithink
(24:54):
it's up to artists andcreatives, and it's not just
art, it's not just visual art,it's. Dance, and it's theater
and it's sport as well, allthese things that bring people
together, because it's not justone size fits all. You know that
we have to have a variety ofideas and things going on in all
(25:15):
our towns and all our cities.They're quite soulless. They've
become car parks. A lot of ourtowns and cities, people quite
often go from one car park toanother. I'm sort of wary of
regeneration in some ways,because it can actually exclude
people as well. It can maketowns and cities too expensive
to live in, and there, thereforethe people who were involved in
(25:36):
regenerating things can't affordto live there sometimes and have
to move so it's, it's quite acomplicated one for me to
answer, because there's, there'spros and cons to regeneration. I
think regeneration is often seennow as quite a negative thing,
but it's how we manage that.It's how we put life back into
our towns and cities. Because Ithink before we really relied on
(26:00):
high streets and retail. Youknow, we need to, we need to
look at how we can reuse ourhigh streets and repopulate them
in our towns, and make sure thatpeople can afford to still live
in those towns that becomepopular, in those cities that
become popular, and if Icouldn't afford to go buy
somewhere in Bradford, yeah, youknow, after it being City or
(26:22):
Culture, there's something amissthere, if that happens, yeah,
that's right. And it is. This isa significant issue, isn't it,
in terms of how these plans arerolled out. And of course, the
Turner Contemporary Art Galleryin Margate is of huge
significance. Was a major, majoraddition to the town and as a
(26:43):
catalyst for the regeneration ofthe town, the Turner
Contemporary Art Gallery hasalso been supportive of your
work. Could you tell us aboutthe pop up you had with the
Mermaid Army?
Yeah, it was amazing. It was anamazing opportunity that
happened through a wonderfulwoman who works for Kent
(27:03):
Association for the Blind, MandyBodemeaid. She actually
said she came to see the MermaidArmy when it was exhibited at
Lidos Stores as part of thePower Thanet Fringe Festival.
And she came, and she was like,this should have been in the
Turner Open. And I was like, Well,I wasn't actually living here,
but she encouraged me to get intouch with Turner. I did it,
(27:25):
and it was amazing. They offeredme the space in the retail
section, so right by the doorsto set up the Mermaid Army and
to be there for 10 days talkingto the public. I was exhausted
after every day, and I have sucha such a respect for the people
who work on the ground at Turnerand in the shop. They are
(27:47):
incredible. It is exhausting.Yeah, yeah. People really do
want to engage and talk. Andwhat an honor that people do
want to do that. So yeah, theMermaid Army was in Turner
Contemporary for two weeks inNovember 2022 I think it already
(28:07):
been to Bridlington as part ofthe Art Waves Festival, and it
been to Western Super Mare, andthen it ended up in Turner in
the November. And it's just beenamazing. It was amazing. Still
amazing to me, that people havereally connected with this
project. Want to talk about it.
(28:28):
Do you think people areresponding to the importance of
memory sharing? Memory sharingachievements, offering
inspiration. There's
a number of themes. I think thatthe main, the main feedback I
got from men and women and nonbinary. So it's a very gender
inclusive project, and I thinkthat's really important. But the
main feedback I got from peoplewas that older people are very
(28:55):
rarely represented in art insuch a positive way and and such
an active way, I did sketchesusing photographs and videos
that people sent me or or thatthey'd taken themselves. And I
did that deliberately, becausepeople were showing me how they
(29:15):
wanted to be seen. So by usingpeople's photographs and
sometimes videos and makingcollages and then making my
sketches. From that, I was usinghow people wanted to be seen,
and I think that made adifference. It wasn't just how I
saw them, it's how they sawthemselves. And people were
(29:37):
people were incredibly generous.They'd send me all sorts of
photographs, naked photographs,sometimes, and photographs very,
you know, very generous, honestphotographs in swimsuits.
Yeah, which is quite courageous,isn't it? When you would
normally, or quite often, youwould feel very exposed, yeah.
So it was, yeah, it was a realhonor. So the Mermaid Army was
(29:58):
made up of men and womenand non binary and drag queens
of how they wanted to be seen.And that was that was quite
something. And I think thatreally came across. So that was
something that resonated withpeople. I think men, comments
that I got from men were reallyinteresting, because alongside
the Mermaid Army, I dida series of plaques using my
(30:21):
sketches where I invited peopleto comment, to make comments
about things that had been saidabout their bodies, because the
Mermaid Army started fromsomebody being called Chunky
when they were training to swimthe channel. So a friend of
mine, who was in Felixstowe,somebody came up to her and
(30:42):
said, Oh, you you don't looklike somebody who'd swim the
channel. You're quite chunky.And she wrote about this, and I
was like, What a nerve. And Ididn't really know how to
respond other than to sculpther. So I did. I sculpted her,
and that's how it kind ofstarted, and then I ended up
sculpting other swimmers, and Ihad these plaques. Every time I
(31:03):
exhibited the Mermaid Army, Ihad these plaques and invited
people to write and sharecomments that have been made
about their bodies. And, youknow, men were really, really
interested in when they sort ofdiscussed the mermaid army with
me, because they quite oftensaid, you know, it's not, it's
not often us that make thesenegative comments. Quite often.
You know, women are often theworse about commenting on other
(31:26):
women or other people's bodies,and that was a hard one to take
but, you know. But
women are pressurized all thetime, aren't they? There are
these unobtainable images thedigital world has created
completely false expectations ofwhat we could or apparently
should look like, and there isvery much a need for women to
(31:51):
feel more empowered to be whothey are and to set their own
identity. Yeah, well,
somebody, somebody, somebodymade a really good comment,
which was something that reallystuck with me. We've all got a
bit of body dysmorphia, andwhere does that come from? We're
not born with that. So these areall learned behaviors. So I
(32:12):
think what the Mermaid Army did wasgive people an opportunity to
talk about that and engage aboutthat in a way that perhaps, you
know, I think because all mywork as a narrative behind it,
that I that people can find forthemselves, and they've all got
their own narratives and theirown stories and their own
memories and their own feelingsand emotions that they then can
(32:35):
express. I think it allows thatto happen.
I wondered, actually, if youwould like to expand a little on
Gill Castle, because creatingone of your mermaid sculptures,
and in relation to Gill beingthe first person ever to swim
the channel with a stoma, andraising significant awareness of
(32:59):
childbirth injuries, what thatimpact was like for her, that
you also wanted to support thatachievement in a very visible
way. Yeah,
oh, Gill's amazing. I'd put thesculptures on Instagram. I can't
remember who it was now, if thisperson's listening, please get
back in touch with me, because II'd love to thank them, but they
(33:22):
sent me a message. You must getin touch with Gill Castle. I
didn't know who Gill Castle was,so I did. I got in touch with
her, and I explained to her whatI was doing, and would she?
Would she let me sculpt her? Andshe goes, yeah. So she sent me
all these pictures, and we welike quite kindred spirits, as
it turns out, and we got, youknow, we were sharing messages.
(33:43):
I've never met this woman, youknow, we're both northerners,
but she had, she'd actually beena policeman in Bradford, so we
had all this shared history aswell. So it was just incredible.
So we were, we were sharing allthis information, and I did this
sculpture of her. And one of themost amazing things was all the
messages we shared. When it cameto me sculpting the stoma bag,
because I'd never seen a stomabag in my life, and so I didn't
(34:05):
know quite what I was doing andwhere it should go. And we had
all these amazing conversations.And then she came, when she was
training, she came down, and shestayed with us here. She came
and stayed with me here. Andwhen she turned up at my door, I
was like, Oh, my God, you'resmaller than me. I'm only five
three, then she was smaller thanme. And I don't know why, I'd
(34:25):
expected this huge, giganticwoman,
like, really, and and to take onthe channel. Perhaps you do
imagine someone, yeah, you know,with huge strength. Yeah,
and I'd made her one of thetallest sculptures in the
Mermaid Army, and she's actuallyprobably the shortest person,
fabulous. So it was because theall the sculptures are actually
(34:48):
about 40 centimeters, theoriginal Mermaid Army, not the
Summer Swimmers. That's anotherselection of swimmers. But
they're all about 40centimeters. They're all they're
all the same sort of size, justlooking at different
shapes, because all body shapesare beautiful. Oh, my goodness,
we did laugh. And so it wasamazing, because from the
Mermaid Army, the merchandisethat I made, I was asked to make
(35:12):
posters or postcards. Well, itwas suggested, and I thought,
Oh, I don't want to make postersor postcard. So I use in my
sketches. I made tiles, and Imade a tile of her, which we
sold. And, yeah, that wenttowards raising awareness and
raising some funds as well,towards the work that she does,
(35:36):
the amazing work she does,helping women in Kenya and the
UK.
Yeah, it's fantastic. It's alovely union, isn't it?
Oh, amazing, yeah, supportive. Iactually saw her off on her
swim. We actually did the videoof her leaving. Oh, wow. It was
the most amazing thing. Yeah, Ididn't want you to go. I was
(35:59):
kind of like you don't have to go!
Yes a big, a big shout out toGill, because it's tremendous
courage, and it's very, verypurposeful what she's doing in
her own right. And I love theunion between you both how art
is helping to add visibility tosuch important and and
(36:20):
courageous work. It's a lovelyunion. And of course, you
continue to show solidarity andsupport. And I think,
currently with your mermaidtour, you're also supporting the
campaign. This Ends Now. Wouldyou like to share something on
that? All these
things tend to happen byaccident, you know? So my friend
(36:42):
Sam, who's amazing on Instagram,she sent me a link. She said,
Oh, you've got to do this, Jane,you've got to apply for this.
And it's the campaign This EndsNow, which I urge people to look
at on Instagram. It's anextraordinary campaign. And
linked to that was an exhibitioncalled Words Matter in Newport
(37:02):
in Wales. So I I submitted theplaques from the Mermaid Army as
something that might be nice forthe exhibition, because all the
words that had been written onthe plaques, and also I had
plaques that still needed to beto be written on, didn't really
think too much of it. Sent thesubmission in, and they were
(37:24):
like, Oh, that would be great.Yeah, please. So I posted them
to Newport. This was probablyabout a year ago, I think yes,
it would have been lastInternational Women's Day, and
it was so well received that ithas gone on to do a tour of
police stations working with thepolice as to how crimes are
(37:46):
reported in the press and howwords are used by the police can
make a difference. Incredible,incredible to be part of this, I
told myself, and then I got anemail last night that there's
actually going to be anexhibition in Pontypridd museum
from February 25 to April the4th of the group exhibition
(38:09):
of all the pieces of work thatdeal with how women are reported
and how words are used withregards women and violence
towards women in an exhibition.And I'm just like, blown away
that, yeah, that was a greatachievement. Yeah, it's a great
achievement.
Is still going and making adifference, and that the plaques
(38:32):
are actually part of that. Yes,just it's mind blowing. So, yes,
it's amazing, because I thinkthe premise behind my work has
never been to actually sell workor make money out of my work.
I've been very fortunate that Ihave sold a lot of tiles that
have helped do projects likethis and the community art
(38:52):
project, but it was never whatwas behind it. It's always been
connections with other people.I've always had a bit of my own
sort of mantra that withcreativity, one thing leads to
another if you allow it. And sothat's kind of how it how it
goes, Really,
yeah, yeah. And I think that'sreally interesting, just to
(39:12):
touch briefly, if you like, onthe sewing resistance. Because
what interested me about thatwas how you came to be part of
the sewing resistance. But alsoI saw you refer to the example
of how quilting and patchworkingand textiles have, of course,
(39:35):
been a very significant form ofvoice for women, and
particularly an example fromChilean women and how they used
it to create messages. And thiswas during Pinochet's very cool
dictatorship, which was between'73 and 1990 I wondered if you
would just like to touch onthat, because I love how what
(39:59):
you can do currently can havesuch a long history that
continues to connect with women?Yeah,
when I found those Chilean,Chilean patchworks in Tate
Modern actually, that's where Ifound them, when I when I
learned about them, I started toresearch knitting and resistance
(40:19):
and so sewing and resistance andthe fact that it was a real
thing, you know, like peopleused to use knitting as, almost
like a code, a coding system.These women risked their lives
knitting passing on messagesusing stitches and things and
patterns were used. Knittingpatterns had had messages in
them and things. I was, like,blown away that textiles could
(40:42):
be so powerful. And around theworld, I just turned 50, and I
bought, for the first time ever,I actually bought a sewing
magazine I'd had aborted onnumerous occasions, sewing I'd
sort of like, Oh, I'm going tobe a sewer. I'd got patterns
like, with my children, my poorchildren, had to wear these
things that I made. And I madeall their Builder Bear clothes.
(41:06):
So I kept having these attemptsat sewing and kept aborting them
because they were dreadful. Butthen in 2020, I got this sewing
magazine, and it had Sew over 50in it. And I thought, oh, maybe
I'll have another go at sewing.And and I did, and I sort of
joined so over 50 which is thismovement on Instagram. It's
brilliant, actually, it's abrilliant community on
(41:28):
Instagram. And I met somefantastic people around the
world, some of them who I'vemet. I recently met Judith, who
I'd who I'd been sewing with inwho's in New Zealand, I met her
for the first time, actually,just a couple of weeks ago in
Dunedin. So imagine that.Imagine, imagine meeting
somebody who you've been sewingwith online, and then you go
(41:51):
meet them in real life. Yeah,
another example of the thewonderful connections that are
made through arts and crafts,yeah. And
also, you know, the internet.The internet's not all bad. It's
a great way of connectingpeople. So we, you know, made
friends with two fantasticwomen, Tina in Australia and
Christine in Holland. Christineactually got me into a Dutch
(42:13):
museum by making one of thenational skirts, which, wow,
which is incredible, absolutelyincredible. I've actually, I'm
actually in a Dutch Museum,which is extraordinary. Yes,
fantastic. And so Vintage Tinaand Stein Makes, that's their
Instagram names. We just for funbecause we it was the pandemic
and we had nothing else to do.We started the Sewing Resistance
(42:36):
as just a fun thing, and we didthese quite silly, fun things.
And it was a way of kind ofbringing people together, I
think. And, yeah, it's justincredible that I think the
sewing embarking on the sewingand the Sew Over 50 in the
community and and the peoplethat I met through sewing around
the world started me offactually, I think building my
(42:59):
confidence to actually exploremy own art and creativity,
because I'd been doing ceramicssince my eldest daughter was
born. So Millie was born in 1998and so for 26 years, I've been
doing ceramics, but it was mygirls and some friends and these
experiences that sort ofencouraged me to have a go at
(43:20):
just going out there andexhibiting work and, heaven
forbid, maybe even trying tosell it. I wouldn't have had the
confidence before. So they allkind of built up. And the sewing
resistance and the silly thingsthat I did with friends online,
we did all sorts of crazy,crazy, silly things. But this
is a lovely result of, if youlike healthy curiosity, isn't it
(43:43):
being prepared to try somethingnew? And
I'll just quickly, it was justfun. That was the thing, you
know, yeah,
again, it goes back to theimportance, doesn't it, of fun
and joy and celebration? Yeah.I'll just quickly interject for
the listeners, because we werereferencing the significance of
(44:03):
Chilean women in the past andtheir textiles to convey
messages of human rightsviolations during the Pinochet
regime. That in this sameseason, season eight, I've also
interviewed Professor EricaVerber, who is the biographer of
Violeta Parra who is Chile'smost famous woman artist and
(44:28):
activist. Prior to her death in1967 she was responsible for not
only protest songs, all sorts ofartwork, painting, tapestries,
ceramics, but equally, usingtextiles and art to convey
truth, to give voice. So I justthought I'd make that
(44:48):
connection, if listeners wouldlike to explore that Chilean
history in further depth.
Ravelry was a great one. Ravelrythe Pussy Hat Movement and
things like. That all thesethings are just so so fantastic.
It's such a great way to protestand join together and organize
groups of people. It, yeah, it'squite incredible. The I, I'm
(45:13):
just trying to remember some ofthe things that that people
submitted to the SewingResistance. There was fantastic
things about bees and women'srights, and people put together
these amazing things, but theydid it through patchworks on
their clothes. And, oh, it'sjust great. It was really fun.
It was really fun, and and itjust brought people together.
(45:34):
And, yeah, it was reallyempowering, actually. And I
think it one of these things. Iknow one of my friends from that
has gone on to dye her own wool.Then she she sells it in markets
now, you know, in up north andand another woman changed her
job. It's just fantastic. Youknow, I think we gave each other
that confidence. And, you know,we had each other's backs to,
(45:57):
kind of like, encourage eachother to do different things and
and inspired each other. Youknow that you could do things,
yeah, yeah. And it's newpathways and owning your own and
developing your own identity, abit like the man you mentioned,
who was recovering fromalcoholism, who from a tile
(46:18):
workshop, went on to do apottery. Course, these are all
significant pathways for change,and actually in terms of
identity and empowerment, thisis a good time to mention your
current exhibition, which is atthe Liminal Gallery in Margate
called Long and I understandyou're exploring through
(46:40):
ceramics, the culturalsignificance of long hair in
relation to femininity, identityand power. I wondered if you'd
like to share a little on thatwith the listeners. Yeah,
it's I'm still pinching myselffrom yesterday of how many
people came to look at thislittle installation and shared
(47:01):
their own stories with me andtheir own experiences. It was
quite something. So theinstallation is inspired by a
photograph that I inherited frommy grandma. It's my maternal
family. So it's my greatgrandma, Emily, and the stories
that my grandma, my grandma,Phyllis used to tell me when I
(47:22):
was a teenager. So I'm fromBronte country. I think that's
quite important.
I'm from the grim north.
I think you said you were bornin a snowstorm where birds
fly backwards. Yes, born on theMoors in a snowstorm. March the
first. It's true. It's actuallytrue. I can't believe my mum
told me that, but it is true.And my Nana Phyllis used to tell
(47:45):
me these stories. She, you know,she had these photographs.
Unfortunately, I don't have allthe photographs. I inherited,
about a dozen that she said Ihad to look after, but she used
to get this tin of photos out.And my nan had been a chorus
girl, and she'd but she'd burntmost of the photographs when my
granddad died, but she had thesephotos that she kept. And as
(48:06):
people died, she'd cut theirfaces out. And it apparently is
quite a thing. You know it was,it was respectful, because you
were letting their spirit rest.That was her philosophy. How
interesting. Yeah. So she hadthese, like photographs with
faces cut out, and she used totell me all the stories behind
the photograph. Now, as ateenager, I was little Gothic
(48:26):
teenager in Leeds, Bradford, youknow, was into the cure and the
cult, but I still, stillstruggled with my Nana's Gothic
stories. She'd tell me all thesestories, and it'd be the same
story and over and over again.And I adored my Grandma. She was
so funny. But then, but then,she had these photographs of her
mother, of my great grandma,Emily. And, you know, she used
(48:49):
to have this incredible longhair, and she had a photograph
of her with her hair long, and aphotograph with her hair up. And
she'd tell me, you know, about,you know, oh, she wouldn't get
it cut, and it killed her, youknow, it killed her. And, and
she'd say things like, she gotnew money, she got pneumonia
more than once, because I'd beplaiting her hair in front of
(49:09):
the fire, and she'd go out withit wet. And, and I remember
thinking, Oh, nanny is, youknow, so dramatic. And then I
got these photos out, and I wasshowing my own children them.
And I just, I don't know. Ijust, I think, I don't know how
your phone does this, but itstarts feeding you information.
And there's an amazing Instagramaccount called History with Amy.
(49:30):
It's fantastic. If you haven'tseen it, have a look at it. And
she did this thing aboutVictorian women and long hair. I
was like, Oh, my God, that's outthe photograph of my great
grandma, Emily, and it turns outthat they did get these terrible
headaches. They did die. And Istarted doing a bit of research,
and the chances are that mygrandma, you know, while being
(49:53):
probably a little bit dramatic,was actually there was some
truth in that, you know, she didhave terrible headaches. She did
get. Pneumonia and things andand who knows whether her hair
did kill her or not, but she diddie young. And then I found out
things like Empress Elizabeth ofAustria, who has the most
amazing quote, which is, "I'm aslave to my hair." And she used
(50:14):
to get her hair combed, and if,if hairs came out, the
attendants had to put it into aceramic bowl for her to examine.
Oh, wow. And this was time of mygreat grandma, Emily. It's
exactly the same time, yeah. Andthese, there's a number of these
photographs. I found a few ofthem now, and they're very
(50:37):
intimate. So these photographswere taken and they were
intimate photographs. Theyweren't for public display. They
were very private. And you knowmy grandma, when she when she
turned into a teenager, my greatgrandma would have had to have
her hair up and it would havehad to been covered. And I just
by looking at my own heritageand my own culture, I kind of
(50:59):
can see parallels with othercultures now, where women are
expected to have their hair upor covered, and we seem so far
removed from that, but we're notreally, because it is in our in
our own ancestry, our owngrandparents. So so it's been
really interesting to look atthat. With this particular
installation. I'm only lookingat my own heritage and my own,
(51:21):
my own culture and my own, myown sort of ancestry, my own
grandparents. But everybody'sgot a relationship with hair in
some way, and so having themirror there, you can see
yourself, and you can startquestioning your own
experiences, your own history,with your own hair, but also our
own prejudices as well. And oneof the I've been really
(51:44):
fortunate to have four living,long haired people who who are
my Muses and models in thisexhibition. And they've all
they've been amazing, amazingwomen, and they've all provided
me with great quotes and greatstories. And one of the stories
is that somebody actually, thisparticular person, was there in
(52:08):
the room with their long hair.And a person actually had the
audacity to say another womancame in bit disheveled, and he
actually said, "You can alwaystell how mad a woman is by how
long her hair is." Wow. And how,like, you know, people will, you
(52:29):
know, describe them as, oh, thatperson with the long hair, or
one of the models is actually aredhead, so she brings a whole
new sort of, like story.
Yeah, so many preconceived ideasand prejudices. Yeah, and,
you know, and women are guiltytoo of judging men by whether
they do or don't have hair. Sothat's another great angle to
(52:51):
the whole installation. Mynarrative in it is actually
quite small. You know, themirror provides a much bigger
narrative, which people bring toit with their own stories and
their own ideas and and then,yeah, you know, their own
experiences. Yeah, it'srelatability, which I think all
of your work is, is so good atoffering. And a big shout out to
(53:15):
the Liminal Gallery in Margatefor supporting local artists so
positively, yeah, it's anamazing, amazing space. We're so
fortunate to have LiminalGallery and, yeah, amazingly
curated by Louise Fitzjohn, whoruns that, that gallery, in that
gallery space and the onlinespace and the podcast. She's so
(53:38):
encouraging and so incredibleand so professional. Yeah, to
have this opportunity, Iliterally am kind of like just
checking I'm really alive.
It's really positive, it'sreally exciting. And so Jane,
because, because we've creptover time, I should move to the
last question, which I askeverybody, which is the series
(54:01):
question, Can art save us?
Yeah, definitely, definitely, Ithink it does, you know,
the arts. So, art, music, drama,theater, literature, yeah, they
can even, you know, reading abook can save you. Being
(54:23):
involved in in any sort of artprojects, arts projects, going
to the theater, so many thingscan save you. You know how they
save you is up to you, really.They can save you in lots of
ways. They can make you rethinksomething.
And I think as your workillustrates it, can save you
(54:43):
simply through the power ofconnection and social
connection.
And I know that art saved me onmore than one occasion,
sometimes just looking atsomething, reading something,
watching something the telly,binge watching the telly, can
save you. You, and that's art.You know, so many things can
save you. Graphic Art can saveyou. You know, advertising,
(55:08):
there's so many, art is such a bigthing. And community arts just
one little bit of it. But yeah,listening to it, listening to a
piece of music that changes yourmind.
It's about the relationship,isn't it, how we respond to any
of the art forms? Yeah,
yeah. I always joke with some ofthe young people that I've sort
of taught and been lucky enoughto watch grow up and things, and
(55:32):
I've said one of the best datesyou can have, honestly, is go to
an art gallery with somebody,because you'll you'll definitely
know whether it you know thatsomebody you want to spend time
with or not. And I think it'sbeen able to have a conversation
about something, whether youagree or disagree, what your
opinions are, what you mightfeel or think about something.
And the arts can do that. Musiccan do that. Reading can do
(55:56):
that. Telly can do that. Youknow, opening up those
conversations where you canlearn more about each other and
learn more about yourself. Allthat, I think, saves us.
But all of the examples are sopositive because it is just
about opening up dialog andunderstanding and relatability
and sharing. So I thinkeverything you touched on really
(56:19):
highlights those values. It'sbeen so useful to talk to you
about all of these projects.Jayne, I know we're over time, so
I can't thank you enough forfitting this in, particularly
when you've had a particularlyhectic time. Yeah,
I hope I've made sense. I'm kindof a bit blurry, still waking up.
No,
not at all, not at all.It's been really interesting to
(56:39):
talk this through. So sendinglots of love to Margate, where I
grew up as a kid. Yes comeback soon. Yeah, no, I continue
to visit. I still have family.and friends there. And you know
all the luck in the world asyour projects continue, and
particularly the Tiles of Joy,which will continue throughout
(57:03):
this year and also to thelisteners, thank you, of course,
for joining us. Please rememberto share this free to listen
series wherever you can, or anyof the episodes you like to help
make the arts all of ours. Thankyou again, Jayne. I really
appreciate your time. Thank
you, thank you for your time andthank you for everybody who's
listened.
Welcome to thispodcast series asking the
question, Can art save us? I'mstarting the first national and
international conversation aboutcourage and curiosity. What do
these qualities really mean, andwhy does it make a big
difference to our mental,societal and democratic health?
I talk to award winning anddiverse artists across the arts
(00:24):
to explore these qualities intheir lives and work both to
inspire and for us all to learn.I'm exploring why we need these
qualities to help change theglobal epidemic of mental
illness, loneliness,polarization of our communities
and even global conflict. If thearts cultivate courage and
curiosity, I'm asking thequestion, Can art save us? My
(00:49):
guest today is a ceramicist,violinist and champion of
community arts. Jayne Wright is aWest Yorkshire born musician and
artist now based in the iconicseaside town of Margate in Kent
Margate is famous for its arthistory. It was home to the
renowned watercolourist Turner,considered to be the best loved
English Romantic artist, andit's home to Tracey Emin,
(01:11):
famously known for herconfessional art. Between world
class artists and the TurnerContemporary Gallery. Margate
has a thriving community artscene, it was a joy to discover
Tiles of Joy, a community artsHappiness Project. Jayne is the
project founder of this trail ofhappiness, and over 1000 hand
crafted tiles have already beenmade in workshops. At least 4000
(01:36):
people have bought one of Jayne'stiles. This trail of happiness
is bringing people together fromall walks of life, promoting
creativity and community spirit.Jane is elevating fun, joy and
celebration, all too often, adeprivation in our daily lives.
As a ceramicist, Jayne is alsoknown for her body positive
(01:57):
Mermaid Army, a collection oftiles and stoneware sculptures
of people who wild swim. Theyrepresent stories of nostalgia
and empowerment. One sculpturerepresents Gill Castle, who
became the first person ever toswim the channel with a stoma,
raising awareness of childbirthinjuries. Currently, the mermaid
sculptures are touring with themessage #wordsmatter, part of
(02:20):
the campaign, This Ends Now,raising awareness of male
violence against women andgirls. Her work consistently
shows solidarity and support forthe causes she cares about,
including the Sewing Resistance,a global textile project. Her
current exhibition, Long, exploresthe cultural significance of
(02:41):
long hair in relation tofemininity, identity and power.
Jane's art is about awareness,advocacy and activism, and I'm
delighted she can join me todayto tell us more. Hello Jayne and
welcome
to Can art save us? Thank youvery much.
I know you've been incrediblybusy. You're only recently back
(03:04):
from New Zealand, so thank youfor making this time. I wondered
if we could start from the pointof view of your interests in
community arts and whether therewas a particular transition for
you as an artist when you wantedto focus on community arts as a
force for good?
(03:25):
I think, I think I've always hadan interest in community arts. I
think it comes from mybackground in education. So as a
design and technology teacherand a music teacher in secondary
education, I always feel a needto share projects and enable
(03:47):
learning and activities, butexperiences as well. I think
being a design technologyteacher and a violin teacher, a
music teacher, I've neverexpected the people that I've
taught to necessarily go on andbe carpenters or metal workers
or or violinists or playingorchestras, but it's all about
(04:08):
having a positive experience atsomething. And so I think the
community art is a direct linkto that. And I think as a
musician, while I have done solowork, I always like to be part
of something. So I like to bepart of a chamber music or an
orchestra. So I sometimes feellike whatever I do, I struggle
to do it on my own. Even if it'slike a birthday party, I'd much
(04:32):
rather share it with somebodyelse. So I think that's where my
love of community art comesfrom, and I feel, especially
after the pandemic, a realrecognition of that social
isolation is real. There aren'tmany opportunities for people to
meet other people and have thosesmall or large conversations
(04:53):
that I think are so important tous as human beings and to share
experiences. So I think withSocial isolation comes
loneliness and unhappiness. Andwhen I was working with a group
of women who have arrived inthis country and are trying to
learn English, they said one ofthe hardest things is just
finding people to actually talkto, because even if you go get
(05:15):
your shopping, it can be clickand collect and you may not even
speak a word to somebody else.So I think any sort of community
activity, be it art or sport,dance, shopping, gardening,
allotments, all those things arereally important for human
contact. And so I think that'swhere my desire for community
(05:39):
art comes in is just to sort ofcombat social isolation and
loneliness, which I think a realsort of problem in our society
today. Yeah, no, I completelyagree, and it's really
understanding how relevant artsand crafts are for social
connectivity as well as personalenjoyment. And I was curious,
(06:03):
Jane, in terms of your owncourage, because it was
interesting to read, and this isin relation to the fabulous
tiles of happiness project thatyou only really had the courage
to do an art project like Tilesof Happiness, because you had
moved to Margate, and I wonderedwhat that move gave you, what
(06:27):
was that shift that helped youfind the courage?
I mean, the pandemic was ahorrible thing. I was working in
London, and it was, it was adreadful thing. But there's also
positivity in that as well. Youknow, like changing your
routines and your dailyactivities and your patterns and
(06:48):
behavior and just having to lookat your life differently, I
think that's what the pandemicgave me. It gave me an
opportunity to look at the factthat I was just doing not
Groundhog Day, that wasn't mylife at all, but I'd got into
routines and doing things andand wasn't necessarily satisfied
(07:09):
or challenged or really, youknow, questioning what I was
doing. And I also have twoamazing daughters who were
growing up into incredibleindependent women with their own
lives, and I was reallyexperiencing empty nesting,
which is another thing that'sreal. I think the pandemic gave
me an opportunity to shift thefocus onto my own life and make
(07:33):
me look at what I was doing andwhat I wanted to achieve. And I
was, I was looking at, you know,what was I was doing in this
part of my life as I turned 50,what was I actually doing and
wasn't having a crisis andthinking, Oh, my God, I've got
to do something and get a bigcar. I didn't have the money to
do that anyway. I'm not verymaterialistic, actually. And I
(07:54):
just kind of thought, what, whatdo I want to achieve? And I felt
like I'd achieved beyond what Icould ever expected as a
parent, and, you know, as amother of two daughters. But
what did I want to achieve formyself? And I started to look at
where I was living and whereelse I could live and and I took
the opportunity to move out ofLondon and put myself somewhere
(08:15):
else, because I was teachingviolin online, and I could do
that anywhere. And I'd ended upin London partly because of my
daughters and their education,because, you know, you can't
move children once they get to acertain age. They hate you
forever. And I'm from Yorkshire,so I'd ended up in London, like,
a massive amount of my life, youknow, over half my life, yeah,
(08:37):
and so I looked at other places,and I was drawn to I'd always
wanted to live by the sea, andthe sea up in Yorkshire is
beautiful, but it's cold, so Istill had that London
connection. I mean, it'samazing, and getting to London
in like 90 minutes from here, soI still had the best of both
worlds. I had London and I couldlive by the sea. And I didn't
realize when I moved to Margatewhat an art scene was going to
(09:01):
grow. I mean, you're forever,you know, bumping into art and
creativity, not just in Margate,in the whole of Thanet, you
know, Ramsgate is a fantastictown, and Folkestone as well.
Folkstone's got so much going on. So we're south, you know,
surrounded by all this bubblingstuff happening in music and
arts and theater. Yeah, it'sgreat. And the LGBTQ plus
(09:27):
community here in Thanet isreally thriving and injecting so
much creativity into where welive. Yeah, it's a great place
to be, you know, yeah, and Idon't know about the other
seaside towns, I imagine thatthere's things happening there
too, you know, especially likeplaces like Blackpool and
Morecambe getting the New Eden.And so there's all these things
(09:49):
that are happening in ourseaside towns. But seaside towns
are just they're just greatplaces, aren't they? They're so
iconic. And yeah, with my tilesthat I make myself, I love
seeing landmarks that webecome really affectionate
towards and that become reallyimportant. And I love those sort
of peculiar things that weattach ourselves to. And of
(10:10):
course, it seems to be full ofthose. Yeah,
exactly because Margate and theIsle of Thanet, as it is known,
it's packed with heritage.Unfortunately, you know, there's
been a significant need forregeneration over several
decades, but nevertheless, it'spacked with heritage. I mean,
(10:31):
Margate was a jewel in the crownfor Victorians. It was high
status holiday making, certainlyas a child throughout the 70s,
you know, our summer holidayscouldn't have been any better,
just for living in Margate ornearby. And also in terms of
heritage and world classartists, Ramsgate was home to
(10:54):
Vincent van Gogh for a veryshort time, you know. So there's
such significant history there,and it seems to me that Margate
helped unlock meaning for you.In your mind, you know what you
wanted to do in meaningful ways.And perhaps that's a good point
to talk about, the tiles ofHappiness Project. Perhaps you'd
(11:14):
like to illustrate for thelisteners how the idea came
about and what's taking place,what your ambition is for the
project I
love that. You call it Tiles ofHappiness. I'm happy with that.
It's actually Tiles of Joy,okay,I've read
both, but both are such winningtitles. This is great.
(11:35):
We'll go with that as well.Tiles of Joy was, Well, what
happened was the the MermaidArmy was part of the Power of
Women Fringe Festival. Power ofWomen is this great festival in
Thanet, the Mermaid Army was partof the fringe. And so that was
2022, and then the year later,they did an open call out for an
ambitious community arts project.So along they trundled to the
(11:57):
meeting, as you do, and said,Oh, I've got an idea, what about
making a big collage, sort oflike patchwork quilt, if you
like, of ceramic tiles tocelebrate women. Because the
actual POWs theme that year in2023 was joy. So we did this
workshop, and it was tocelebrate women, and it was at
(12:18):
Margate caves, the amazingMargate caves.
Incredible even morehistory. Yeah, I couldn't
believe it. I
really panicked that peopleweren't going to come, and my
friends still teased me about ittoday, because 86 people turned
up to make tiles, and it wasmad, but the cave staff were
incredible. They just keptletting people come in, and we
(12:40):
made all these tiles. But whatwas even more amazing was it
wasn't just women that came tomake tiles to celebrate women.
It was dads and it was partnersand it was sons and brothers,
and it was amazing. And thenthat's
so significant, isn't it? Yesaway.
You know, I had to look at thefact that it didn't need to be a
(13:02):
gendered project. It could justbe Tiles of Joy.
And so it started there,and it just it just got bigger
and bigger and bigger. And Ijust really felt like I was just
sort of steering the project asbest as I could. I didn't have
any funding other than littlebits of funding here and there,
and I was paying for it byselling my own tiles. So when I
(13:25):
made my own tiles, I wasoffsetting the costs by putting
my tiles that I was selling inwith the community art tiles. So
that's how I was making it work.Wow. And as it got like 1000
tiles, I couldn't really sustainthat, but also I couldn't pay I
had to go at tiling myself, andwasn't very good. It's actually
(13:46):
harder than you think, because Ihad to create these
installations. The idea wasalways to have a constellation
of tiles, and it had temporarydisplays in in amazing places.
So 161 Northdown Road, there'san amazing little gallery there.
That's where the first displayof the tiles was, and then
(14:07):
Margate caves did a display, andit went from two boards to four
boards to six boards, and eachboard had 96 tiles on them. We
were doing workshops in thestreet in Cliftonville, and
people would just come and maketiles. It was great. It was
amazing. It was mad.
You've really evidenced anappetite, a willingness and a
(14:29):
need, haven't you, thatpeople want to be able to
participate and also respond tosomething positive. I think it's
incredibly significant that youcould highlight, you know, men,
boys, granddads, dads, sons allwanted to join in. Because,
unfortunately, there is an issuewhere men, and particularly
(14:52):
regarding mental health, therecan be such an exclusion from
where they feel they canparticipate. Or open up or do
those healthy things that justhelp with social activities and
connection. Yeah, I
was very honored that one of theworkshops that we did, a man
(15:12):
actually took the time to cometo me quietly and say how much
it meant to him because he wastrying to recover from a drink
problem he'd lost, in his words,his family and his job, and he
found it really difficultfinding places to socialize or
meet other people, and beingable to come to one of those
(15:33):
workshops was a stepping stonefor him, and he went on to
actually find a night schoolclass to do pottery, to meet
other people. He said howdifficult it was. His background
had been in laboring and things,but also in rugby. So all his
activities seemed to be alcohollinked socially. So he found it
(15:54):
very, very difficult to meetpeople in a different setting.
And he said, as a man, it wasparticularly difficult as well.
So this was a real steppingstone, and I felt so honored to
have been part of that, youknow, and for him to take the
time to tell me as well. Yeah,
which was brave of him, becauseit's opening up emotionally and
personally,
there's been a few instanceslike that where, you know, we've
(16:17):
done drop in workshops inplaces like Dreamland, and dads
will sort of drop their kidsoff, and they'll go, Oh no, it's
not, not my kind of thing. Theirmum will do it with them. And
then the children look at theirdad and go, Oh, come on, dad.
And, you know, with a little bitof encouragement, you know, dads
go on to do some of the besttiles.
Yeah, I mean, these are golddust stories, particularly the
(16:39):
example of the man brave enoughto open up about his recovery
from alcoholism and stillfinding the courage to take part
in new things. Because actually,would you agree, in general,
that it does sometimes takecourage for somebody to take
part in something new. So acommunity arts workshop, let's
(17:02):
make tiles from the outside,that just seems very fun. And
why not? But actually, that canbe a huge step to take for
somebody, because it's not aboutart in terms of, I must be
artistic, I must be especiallytalented. It's really what
you're highlighting, isn't it?It's about the joy, the fun and
(17:24):
the connectivity. Yeah.
There's twothings there to take from that.
I think, you know, gettingpeople over a threshold of a
workshop is one of the hardestthings. You know, to sign up is
difficult enough, and then toactually get into somewhere new
and be put into that position.And, you know, social anxiety.
(17:45):
Lots of people struggle withsocial anxiety, and I know I
experienced it after thepandemic. I remember walking
down more getting thinking, Oh,I'm not sure I want the pandemic
to really end. You know, I quitelike not having to go out, you
know, quite like being a bitinclusive. So I think that's
definitely something that'sstill a hangover for a lot
of people. And I think anotherthing that has been said to me
(18:08):
more than once through thisproject is how rarely we are
asked what makes us happy orwhat brings us joy, and more
rarely are we given theopportunity to express it in any
way. And so it's been reallyquite something to give people
200 grams of clay and get themto turn it into a tile and just
(18:32):
say, Look, you just have to puton there whatever makes you
happy or brings you joy. No onecan tell you it's wrong, even if
it's just playing with the clayand that's made you happy.
That's actually enough. So it'sbeen a really accessible project
for people. We've alsoencouraged people to do
something that they might nothave done normally. So we got
invited to Seasalter yesterday,to the Christian Center there to
(18:55):
they had a special gathering ofchurches, and I'm not quite sure
what I signed myself and my myhelpers up to my assistants up
to we turned up three of usyesterday, and we made 100 tiles
in two hours with the mostincredible group of people that
(19:16):
the generosity of their spiritand their creativity and the
stories they shared with us wassomething else. But even in that
environment where you've gotthis wonderful community, this
religious community of peoplesupporting each other, there was
people who were reluctant andbut it didn't take much. It
didn't take much to go. Oh,just, you know, give it a go. It
(19:37):
doesn't matter if it doesn'twork, and sure enough, they will
do it, you know, even if theyjust write on a tile piece that
feels some joy. And I think justgiving having the opportunity is
so rare.
Yeah, yeah, absolutely, it's aterrible, terrible deprivation.
In fact, spaces that helpcommunities connect to help
(20:01):
social cohesion, to help mentalhealth, and like you say,
simply, help happiness and joy.I think that statement you made
is particularly powerful thatpeople are rarely asked what
makes them happy, and even more,rarely are they asked to
document it. It's somethingwe're almost forgetting to think
(20:23):
about or to assert. I wondered,Jane, what kind of statements of
joy are you seeing appear onthese tiles? I imagine there's
such a range. We do
have repeats.
I actually jokingly said, right,that's no more rainbows. No more
rainbows. We have lots ofsunsets. We have lots of birds.
(20:46):
Obviously, we live near the sea,so the sea makes people happy.
But then we have, like,mountains, and we have
countries. My favorite ones arealways when somebody does their
mum, it's just amazing. My mummakes me happy. Family appears a
lot. Bicycles at Christmas.Obviously, Santa was big. The
(21:06):
sun storms now storms years ago,when we've had a couple of
storms, and I like a storm, wedid two workshops at Dreamland,
which were Dreamland themes. Sothey were beautiful because they
were lots of memories, and yeah,and romance, lots of love
hearts. Yeah, love makes peoplereally happy. So, yeah,
occasionally we get the odd onethat no one's done before. We've
(21:27):
had two dragons, which is quiteinteresting, but we've had
snakes, which is cool,skateboarding, football. We've
got a few teams in there thatbring people joy. No one's done
Margate FC yet, which is a bitdisappointing.
Well, I think being a kid fromMargate, I would surely have to
come up with a mod or a Vespa,because for listeners who aren't
(21:50):
familiar with this iconicseaside town, bank holiday
Mondays could not have been moredistinct, because every mod in
the world would descend onMargate or Ramsgate or Broadstairs
and it's one of my mostfond and nostalgic childhood
memories. Yeah, it's creating alovely story, isn't it? It's a
(22:12):
beautiful story. The trail is astory as well as statements of
what makes people happy. Yeah. I
mean, we had a lady yesterdaywho was visibly impaired, and
she's like, I think I can't dothis. And I have actually been
working with Kent Associationfor the Blind to adapt this
project. And she I was like, No,you'll be fine. You'll be fine.
(22:34):
Just just make marks. Clay lovesyou making marks. And she
started off really tentative,and but about the end she'd made
this beautiful tile, that it'sgot to be so beautiful to feel.
And so I think that's anotherthing, you know, just sort of
the other senses. I've had alovely message from Mencap.
There's a group of adults whowalk past one of the tile
(22:55):
installations in Margate, andthey always stop to feel the
tiles. How amazing is that?Yeah? And inclusive the tiles,
yeah, and discuss them, and theysee a different tile every day.
Yeah, that's just really lovely.Yeah,
it's wonderful. And, and ofcourse, it's so inclusive, and
so much to your credit,including your own generosity,
(23:16):
to have found a way topersonally fund this project at
the same time whilst pursuingfunding. And obviously a big
shout out to benefactorseverywhere. Jane, I'm interested
now that you live in Margate,you've got this fabulous project
underway, you're obviously goingto be very aware of Margate as a
(23:41):
significant arts destination nowin the UK. In fact, the founder
of Freeze Art Fair, he's now thenew chair of Turner Contemporary
stated, Margate is now one of theUK's most important art
destinations. What's yourexperience of that balance
between significance as an artdestination and regeneration and
(24:07):
connecting with local people andnot just an international
visitor footprint.
Oh, gosh. Well, I do believethat arts do regenerate areas in
a positive way. I'm fromBradford. So this year, Bradford
is the Cultural City 2025 andwhen a city or a town embraces
(24:31):
its creative population, and ithas a knock on effect, it brings
other people to the towns. Ithink every town, you know,
every school should be an artschool, and every town should
have a gallery. It's just reallyimportant to
offer that creativity, and Ithink
(24:54):
it's up to artists andcreatives, and it's not just
art, it's not just visual art,it's. Dance, and it's theater
and it's sport as well, allthese things that bring people
together, because it's not justone size fits all. You know that
we have to have a variety ofideas and things going on in all
(25:15):
our towns and all our cities.They're quite soulless. They've
become car parks. A lot of ourtowns and cities, people quite
often go from one car park toanother. I'm sort of wary of
regeneration in some ways,because it can actually exclude
people as well. It can maketowns and cities too expensive
to live in, and there, thereforethe people who were involved in
(25:36):
regenerating things can't affordto live there sometimes and have
to move so it's, it's quite acomplicated one for me to
answer, because there's, there'spros and cons to regeneration. I
think regeneration is often seennow as quite a negative thing,
but it's how we manage that.It's how we put life back into
our towns and cities. Because Ithink before we really relied on
(26:00):
high streets and retail. Youknow, we need to, we need to
look at how we can reuse ourhigh streets and repopulate them
in our towns, and make sure thatpeople can afford to still live
in those towns that becomepopular, in those cities that
become popular, and if Icouldn't afford to go buy
somewhere in Bradford, yeah, youknow, after it being City or
(26:22):
Culture, there's something amissthere, if that happens, yeah,
that's right. And it is. This isa significant issue, isn't it,
in terms of how these plans arerolled out. And of course, the
Turner Contemporary Art Galleryin Margate is of huge
significance. Was a major, majoraddition to the town and as a
(26:43):
catalyst for the regeneration ofthe town, the Turner
Contemporary Art Gallery hasalso been supportive of your
work. Could you tell us aboutthe pop up you had with the
Mermaid Army?
Yeah, it was amazing. It was anamazing opportunity that
happened through a wonderfulwoman who works for Kent
(27:03):
Association for the Blind, MandyBodemeaid. She actually
said she came to see the MermaidArmy when it was exhibited at
Lidos Stores as part of thePower Thanet Fringe Festival.
And she came, and she was like,this should have been in the
Turner Open. And I was like, Well,I wasn't actually living here,
but she encouraged me to get intouch with Turner. I did it,
(27:25):
and it was amazing. They offeredme the space in the retail
section, so right by the doorsto set up the Mermaid Army and
to be there for 10 days talkingto the public. I was exhausted
after every day, and I have sucha such a respect for the people
who work on the ground at Turnerand in the shop. They are
(27:47):
incredible. It is exhausting.Yeah, yeah. People really do
want to engage and talk. Andwhat an honor that people do
want to do that. So yeah, theMermaid Army was in Turner
Contemporary for two weeks inNovember 2022 I think it already
(28:07):
been to Bridlington as part ofthe Art Waves Festival, and it
been to Western Super Mare, andthen it ended up in Turner in
the November. And it's just beenamazing. It was amazing. Still
amazing to me, that people havereally connected with this
project. Want to talk about it.
(28:28):
Do you think people areresponding to the importance of
memory sharing? Memory sharingachievements, offering
inspiration. There's
a number of themes. I think thatthe main, the main feedback I
got from men and women and nonbinary. So it's a very gender
inclusive project, and I thinkthat's really important. But the
main feedback I got from peoplewas that older people are very
(28:55):
rarely represented in art insuch a positive way and and such
an active way, I did sketchesusing photographs and videos
that people sent me or or thatthey'd taken themselves. And I
did that deliberately, becausepeople were showing me how they
(29:15):
wanted to be seen. So by usingpeople's photographs and
sometimes videos and makingcollages and then making my
sketches. From that, I was usinghow people wanted to be seen,
and I think that made adifference. It wasn't just how I
saw them, it's how they sawthemselves. And people were
(29:37):
people were incredibly generous.They'd send me all sorts of
photographs, naked photographs,sometimes, and photographs very,
you know, very generous, honestphotographs in swimsuits.
Yeah, which is quite courageous,isn't it? When you would
normally, or quite often, youwould feel very exposed, yeah.
So it was, yeah, it was a realhonor. So the Mermaid Army was
(29:58):
made up of men and womenand non binary and drag queens
of how they wanted to be seen.And that was that was quite
something. And I think thatreally came across. So that was
something that resonated withpeople. I think men, comments
that I got from men were reallyinteresting, because alongside
the Mermaid Army, I dida series of plaques using my
(30:21):
sketches where I invited peopleto comment, to make comments
about things that had been saidabout their bodies, because the
Mermaid Army started fromsomebody being called Chunky
when they were training to swimthe channel. So a friend of
mine, who was in Felixstowe,somebody came up to her and
(30:42):
said, Oh, you you don't looklike somebody who'd swim the
channel. You're quite chunky.And she wrote about this, and I
was like, What a nerve. And Ididn't really know how to
respond other than to sculpther. So I did. I sculpted her,
and that's how it kind ofstarted, and then I ended up
sculpting other swimmers, and Ihad these plaques. Every time I
(31:03):
exhibited the Mermaid Army, Ihad these plaques and invited
people to write and sharecomments that have been made
about their bodies. And, youknow, men were really, really
interested in when they sort ofdiscussed the mermaid army with
me, because they quite oftensaid, you know, it's not, it's
not often us that make thesenegative comments. Quite often.
You know, women are often theworse about commenting on other
(31:26):
women or other people's bodies,and that was a hard one to take
but, you know. But
women are pressurized all thetime, aren't they? There are
these unobtainable images thedigital world has created
completely false expectations ofwhat we could or apparently
should look like, and there isvery much a need for women to
(31:51):
feel more empowered to be whothey are and to set their own
identity. Yeah, well,
somebody, somebody, somebodymade a really good comment,
which was something that reallystuck with me. We've all got a
bit of body dysmorphia, andwhere does that come from? We're
not born with that. So these areall learned behaviors. So I
(32:12):
think what the Mermaid Army did wasgive people an opportunity to
talk about that and engage aboutthat in a way that perhaps, you
know, I think because all mywork as a narrative behind it,
that I that people can find forthemselves, and they've all got
their own narratives and theirown stories and their own
memories and their own feelingsand emotions that they then can
(32:35):
express. I think it allows thatto happen.
I wondered, actually, if youwould like to expand a little on
Gill Castle, because creatingone of your mermaid sculptures,
and in relation to Gill beingthe first person ever to swim
the channel with a stoma, andraising significant awareness of
(32:59):
childbirth injuries, what thatimpact was like for her, that
you also wanted to support thatachievement in a very visible
way. Yeah,
oh, Gill's amazing. I'd put thesculptures on Instagram. I can't
remember who it was now, if thisperson's listening, please get
back in touch with me, because II'd love to thank them, but they
(33:22):
sent me a message. You must getin touch with Gill Castle. I
didn't know who Gill Castle was,so I did. I got in touch with
her, and I explained to her whatI was doing, and would she?
Would she let me sculpt her? Andshe goes, yeah. So she sent me
all these pictures, and we welike quite kindred spirits, as
it turns out, and we got, youknow, we were sharing messages.
(33:43):
I've never met this woman, youknow, we're both northerners,
but she had, she'd actually beena policeman in Bradford, so we
had all this shared history aswell. So it was just incredible.
So we were, we were sharing allthis information, and I did this
sculpture of her. And one of themost amazing things was all the
messages we shared. When it cameto me sculpting the stoma bag,
because I'd never seen a stomabag in my life, and so I didn't
(34:05):
know quite what I was doing andwhere it should go. And we had
all these amazing conversations.And then she came, when she was
training, she came down, and shestayed with us here. She came
and stayed with me here. Andwhen she turned up at my door, I
was like, Oh, my God, you'resmaller than me. I'm only five
three, then she was smaller thanme. And I don't know why, I'd
(34:25):
expected this huge, giganticwoman,
like, really, and and to take onthe channel. Perhaps you do
imagine someone, yeah, you know,with huge strength. Yeah,
and I'd made her one of thetallest sculptures in the
Mermaid Army, and she's actuallyprobably the shortest person,
fabulous. So it was because theall the sculptures are actually
(34:48):
about 40 centimeters, theoriginal Mermaid Army, not the
Summer Swimmers. That's anotherselection of swimmers. But
they're all about 40centimeters. They're all they're
all the same sort of size, justlooking at different
shapes, because all body shapesare beautiful. Oh, my goodness,
we did laugh. And so it wasamazing, because from the
Mermaid Army, the merchandisethat I made, I was asked to make
(35:12):
posters or postcards. Well, itwas suggested, and I thought,
Oh, I don't want to make postersor postcard. So I use in my
sketches. I made tiles, and Imade a tile of her, which we
sold. And, yeah, that wenttowards raising awareness and
raising some funds as well,towards the work that she does,
(35:36):
the amazing work she does,helping women in Kenya and the
UK.
Yeah, it's fantastic. It's alovely union, isn't it?
Oh, amazing, yeah, supportive. Iactually saw her off on her
swim. We actually did the videoof her leaving. Oh, wow. It was
the most amazing thing. Yeah, Ididn't want you to go. I was
(35:59):
kind of like you don't have to go!
Yes a big, a big shout out toGill, because it's tremendous
courage, and it's very, verypurposeful what she's doing in
her own right. And I love theunion between you both how art
is helping to add visibility tosuch important and and
(36:20):
courageous work. It's a lovelyunion. And of course, you
continue to show solidarity andsupport. And I think,
currently with your mermaidtour, you're also supporting the
campaign. This Ends Now. Wouldyou like to share something on
that? All these
things tend to happen byaccident, you know? So my friend
(36:42):
Sam, who's amazing on Instagram,she sent me a link. She said,
Oh, you've got to do this, Jane,you've got to apply for this.
And it's the campaign This EndsNow, which I urge people to look
at on Instagram. It's anextraordinary campaign. And
linked to that was an exhibitioncalled Words Matter in Newport
(37:02):
in Wales. So I I submitted theplaques from the Mermaid Army as
something that might be nice forthe exhibition, because all the
words that had been written onthe plaques, and also I had
plaques that still needed to beto be written on, didn't really
think too much of it. Sent thesubmission in, and they were
(37:24):
like, Oh, that would be great.Yeah, please. So I posted them
to Newport. This was probablyabout a year ago, I think yes,
it would have been lastInternational Women's Day, and
it was so well received that ithas gone on to do a tour of
police stations working with thepolice as to how crimes are
(37:46):
reported in the press and howwords are used by the police can
make a difference. Incredible,incredible to be part of this, I
told myself, and then I got anemail last night that there's
actually going to be anexhibition in Pontypridd museum
from February 25 to April the4th of the group exhibition
(38:09):
of all the pieces of work thatdeal with how women are reported
and how words are used withregards women and violence
towards women in an exhibition.And I'm just like, blown away
that, yeah, that was a greatachievement. Yeah, it's a great
achievement.
Is still going and making adifference, and that the plaques
(38:32):
are actually part of that. Yes,just it's mind blowing. So, yes,
it's amazing, because I thinkthe premise behind my work has
never been to actually sell workor make money out of my work.
I've been very fortunate that Ihave sold a lot of tiles that
have helped do projects likethis and the community art
(38:52):
project, but it was never whatwas behind it. It's always been
connections with other people.I've always had a bit of my own
sort of mantra that withcreativity, one thing leads to
another if you allow it. And sothat's kind of how it how it
goes, Really,
yeah, yeah. And I think that'sreally interesting, just to
(39:12):
touch briefly, if you like, onthe sewing resistance. Because
what interested me about thatwas how you came to be part of
the sewing resistance. But alsoI saw you refer to the example
of how quilting and patchworkingand textiles have, of course,
(39:35):
been a very significant form ofvoice for women, and
particularly an example fromChilean women and how they used
it to create messages. And thiswas during Pinochet's very cool
dictatorship, which was between'73 and 1990 I wondered if you
would just like to touch onthat, because I love how what
(39:59):
you can do currently can havesuch a long history that
continues to connect with women?Yeah,
when I found those Chilean,Chilean patchworks in Tate
Modern actually, that's where Ifound them, when I when I
learned about them, I started toresearch knitting and resistance
(40:19):
and so sewing and resistance andthe fact that it was a real
thing, you know, like peopleused to use knitting as, almost
like a code, a coding system.These women risked their lives
knitting passing on messagesusing stitches and things and
patterns were used. Knittingpatterns had had messages in
them and things. I was, like,blown away that textiles could
(40:42):
be so powerful. And around theworld, I just turned 50, and I
bought, for the first time ever,I actually bought a sewing
magazine I'd had aborted onnumerous occasions, sewing I'd
sort of like, Oh, I'm going tobe a sewer. I'd got patterns
like, with my children, my poorchildren, had to wear these
things that I made. And I madeall their Builder Bear clothes.
(41:06):
So I kept having these attemptsat sewing and kept aborting them
because they were dreadful. Butthen in 2020, I got this sewing
magazine, and it had Sew over 50in it. And I thought, oh, maybe
I'll have another go at sewing.And and I did, and I sort of
joined so over 50 which is thismovement on Instagram. It's
brilliant, actually, it's abrilliant community on
(41:28):
Instagram. And I met somefantastic people around the
world, some of them who I'vemet. I recently met Judith, who
I'd who I'd been sewing with inwho's in New Zealand, I met her
for the first time, actually,just a couple of weeks ago in
Dunedin. So imagine that.Imagine, imagine meeting
somebody who you've been sewingwith online, and then you go
(41:51):
meet them in real life. Yeah,
another example of the thewonderful connections that are
made through arts and crafts,yeah. And
also, you know, the internet.The internet's not all bad. It's
a great way of connectingpeople. So we, you know, made
friends with two fantasticwomen, Tina in Australia and
Christine in Holland. Christineactually got me into a Dutch
(42:13):
museum by making one of thenational skirts, which, wow,
which is incredible, absolutelyincredible. I've actually, I'm
actually in a Dutch Museum,which is extraordinary. Yes,
fantastic. And so Vintage Tinaand Stein Makes, that's their
Instagram names. We just for funbecause we it was the pandemic
and we had nothing else to do.We started the Sewing Resistance
(42:36):
as just a fun thing, and we didthese quite silly, fun things.
And it was a way of kind ofbringing people together, I
think. And, yeah, it's justincredible that I think the
sewing embarking on the sewingand the Sew Over 50 in the
community and and the peoplethat I met through sewing around
the world started me offactually, I think building my
(42:59):
confidence to actually exploremy own art and creativity,
because I'd been doing ceramicssince my eldest daughter was
born. So Millie was born in 1998and so for 26 years, I've been
doing ceramics, but it was mygirls and some friends and these
experiences that sort ofencouraged me to have a go at
(43:20):
just going out there andexhibiting work and, heaven
forbid, maybe even trying tosell it. I wouldn't have had the
confidence before. So they allkind of built up. And the sewing
resistance and the silly thingsthat I did with friends online,
we did all sorts of crazy,crazy, silly things. But this
is a lovely result of, if youlike healthy curiosity, isn't it
(43:43):
being prepared to try somethingnew? And
I'll just quickly, it was justfun. That was the thing, you
know, yeah,
again, it goes back to theimportance, doesn't it, of fun
and joy and celebration? Yeah.I'll just quickly interject for
the listeners, because we werereferencing the significance of
(44:03):
Chilean women in the past andtheir textiles to convey
messages of human rightsviolations during the Pinochet
regime. That in this sameseason, season eight, I've also
interviewed Professor EricaVerber, who is the biographer of
Violeta Parra who is Chile'smost famous woman artist and
(44:28):
activist. Prior to her death in1967 she was responsible for not
only protest songs, all sorts ofartwork, painting, tapestries,
ceramics, but equally, usingtextiles and art to convey
truth, to give voice. So I justthought I'd make that
(44:48):
connection, if listeners wouldlike to explore that Chilean
history in further depth.
Ravelry was a great one. Ravelrythe Pussy Hat Movement and
things like. That all thesethings are just so so fantastic.
It's such a great way to protestand join together and organize
groups of people. It, yeah, it'squite incredible. The I, I'm
(45:13):
just trying to remember some ofthe things that that people
submitted to the SewingResistance. There was fantastic
things about bees and women'srights, and people put together
these amazing things, but theydid it through patchworks on
their clothes. And, oh, it'sjust great. It was really fun.
It was really fun, and and itjust brought people together.
(45:34):
And, yeah, it was reallyempowering, actually. And I
think it one of these things. Iknow one of my friends from that
has gone on to dye her own wool.Then she she sells it in markets
now, you know, in up north andand another woman changed her
job. It's just fantastic. Youknow, I think we gave each other
that confidence. And, you know,we had each other's backs to,
(45:57):
kind of like, encourage eachother to do different things and
and inspired each other. Youknow that you could do things,
yeah, yeah. And it's newpathways and owning your own and
developing your own identity, abit like the man you mentioned,
who was recovering fromalcoholism, who from a tile
(46:18):
workshop, went on to do apottery. Course, these are all
significant pathways for change,and actually in terms of
identity and empowerment, thisis a good time to mention your
current exhibition, which is atthe Liminal Gallery in Margate
called Long and I understandyou're exploring through
(46:40):
ceramics, the culturalsignificance of long hair in
relation to femininity, identityand power. I wondered if you'd
like to share a little on thatwith the listeners. Yeah,
it's I'm still pinching myselffrom yesterday of how many
people came to look at thislittle installation and shared
(47:01):
their own stories with me andtheir own experiences. It was
quite something. So theinstallation is inspired by a
photograph that I inherited frommy grandma. It's my maternal
family. So it's my greatgrandma, Emily, and the stories
that my grandma, my grandma,Phyllis used to tell me when I
(47:22):
was a teenager. So I'm fromBronte country. I think that's
quite important.
I'm from the grim north.
I think you said you were bornin a snowstorm where birds
fly backwards. Yes, born on theMoors in a snowstorm. March the
first. It's true. It's actuallytrue. I can't believe my mum
told me that, but it is true.And my Nana Phyllis used to tell
(47:45):
me these stories. She, you know,she had these photographs.
Unfortunately, I don't have allthe photographs. I inherited,
about a dozen that she said Ihad to look after, but she used
to get this tin of photos out.And my nan had been a chorus
girl, and she'd but she'd burntmost of the photographs when my
granddad died, but she had thesephotos that she kept. And as
(48:06):
people died, she'd cut theirfaces out. And it apparently is
quite a thing. You know it was,it was respectful, because you
were letting their spirit rest.That was her philosophy. How
interesting. Yeah. So she hadthese, like photographs with
faces cut out, and she used totell me all the stories behind
the photograph. Now, as ateenager, I was little Gothic
(48:26):
teenager in Leeds, Bradford, youknow, was into the cure and the
cult, but I still, stillstruggled with my Nana's Gothic
stories. She'd tell me all thesestories, and it'd be the same
story and over and over again.And I adored my Grandma. She was
so funny. But then, but then,she had these photographs of her
mother, of my great grandma,Emily. And, you know, she used
(48:49):
to have this incredible longhair, and she had a photograph
of her with her hair long, and aphotograph with her hair up. And
she'd tell me, you know, about,you know, oh, she wouldn't get
it cut, and it killed her, youknow, it killed her. And, and
she'd say things like, she gotnew money, she got pneumonia
more than once, because I'd beplaiting her hair in front of
(49:09):
the fire, and she'd go out withit wet. And, and I remember
thinking, Oh, nanny is, youknow, so dramatic. And then I
got these photos out, and I wasshowing my own children them.
And I just, I don't know. Ijust, I think, I don't know how
your phone does this, but itstarts feeding you information.
And there's an amazing Instagramaccount called History with Amy.
(49:30):
It's fantastic. If you haven'tseen it, have a look at it. And
she did this thing aboutVictorian women and long hair. I
was like, Oh, my God, that's outthe photograph of my great
grandma, Emily, and it turns outthat they did get these terrible
headaches. They did die. And Istarted doing a bit of research,
and the chances are that mygrandma, you know, while being
(49:53):
probably a little bit dramatic,was actually there was some
truth in that, you know, she didhave terrible headaches. She did
get. Pneumonia and things andand who knows whether her hair
did kill her or not, but she diddie young. And then I found out
things like Empress Elizabeth ofAustria, who has the most
amazing quote, which is, "I'm aslave to my hair." And she used
(50:14):
to get her hair combed, and if,if hairs came out, the
attendants had to put it into aceramic bowl for her to examine.
Oh, wow. And this was time of mygreat grandma, Emily. It's
exactly the same time, yeah. Andthese, there's a number of these
photographs. I found a few ofthem now, and they're very
(50:37):
intimate. So these photographswere taken and they were
intimate photographs. Theyweren't for public display. They
were very private. And you knowmy grandma, when she when she
turned into a teenager, my greatgrandma would have had to have
her hair up and it would havehad to been covered. And I just
by looking at my own heritageand my own culture, I kind of
(50:59):
can see parallels with othercultures now, where women are
expected to have their hair upor covered, and we seem so far
removed from that, but we're notreally, because it is in our in
our own ancestry, our owngrandparents. So so it's been
really interesting to look atthat. With this particular
installation. I'm only lookingat my own heritage and my own,
(51:21):
my own culture and my own, myown sort of ancestry, my own
grandparents. But everybody'sgot a relationship with hair in
some way, and so having themirror there, you can see
yourself, and you can startquestioning your own
experiences, your own history,with your own hair, but also our
own prejudices as well. And oneof the I've been really
(51:44):
fortunate to have four living,long haired people who who are
my Muses and models in thisexhibition. And they've all
they've been amazing, amazingwomen, and they've all provided
me with great quotes and greatstories. And one of the stories
is that somebody actually, thisparticular person, was there in
(52:08):
the room with their long hair.And a person actually had the
audacity to say another womancame in bit disheveled, and he
actually said, "You can alwaystell how mad a woman is by how
long her hair is." Wow. And how,like, you know, people will, you
(52:29):
know, describe them as, oh, thatperson with the long hair, or
one of the models is actually aredhead, so she brings a whole
new sort of, like story.
Yeah, so many preconceived ideasand prejudices. Yeah, and,
you know, and women are guiltytoo of judging men by whether
they do or don't have hair. Sothat's another great angle to
(52:51):
the whole installation. Mynarrative in it is actually
quite small. You know, themirror provides a much bigger
narrative, which people bring toit with their own stories and
their own ideas and and then,yeah, you know, their own
experiences. Yeah, it'srelatability, which I think all
of your work is, is so good atoffering. And a big shout out to
(53:15):
the Liminal Gallery in Margatefor supporting local artists so
positively, yeah, it's anamazing, amazing space. We're so
fortunate to have LiminalGallery and, yeah, amazingly
curated by Louise Fitzjohn, whoruns that, that gallery, in that
gallery space and the onlinespace and the podcast. She's so
(53:38):
encouraging and so incredibleand so professional. Yeah, to
have this opportunity, Iliterally am kind of like just
checking I'm really alive.
It's really positive, it'sreally exciting. And so Jane,
because, because we've creptover time, I should move to the
last question, which I askeverybody, which is the series
(54:01):
question, Can art save us?
Yeah, definitely, definitely, Ithink it does, you know,
the arts. So, art, music, drama,theater, literature, yeah, they
can even, you know, reading abook can save you. Being
(54:23):
involved in in any sort of artprojects, arts projects, going
to the theater, so many thingscan save you. You know how they
save you is up to you, really.They can save you in lots of
ways. They can make you rethinksomething.
And I think as your workillustrates it, can save you
(54:43):
simply through the power ofconnection and social
connection.
And I know that art saved me onmore than one occasion,
sometimes just looking atsomething, reading something,
watching something the telly,binge watching the telly, can
save you. You, and that's art.You know, so many things can
save you. Graphic Art can saveyou. You know, advertising,
(55:08):
there's so many, art is such a bigthing. And community arts just
one little bit of it. But yeah,listening to it, listening to a
piece of music that changes yourmind.
It's about the relationship,isn't it, how we respond to any
of the art forms? Yeah,
yeah. I always joke with some ofthe young people that I've sort
of taught and been lucky enoughto watch grow up and things, and
(55:32):
I've said one of the best datesyou can have, honestly, is go to
an art gallery with somebody,because you'll you'll definitely
know whether it you know thatsomebody you want to spend time
with or not. And I think it'sbeen able to have a conversation
about something, whether youagree or disagree, what your
opinions are, what you mightfeel or think about something.
And the arts can do that. Musiccan do that. Reading can do
(55:56):
that. Telly can do that. Youknow, opening up those
conversations where you canlearn more about each other and
learn more about yourself. Allthat, I think, saves us.
But all of the examples are sopositive because it is just
about opening up dialog andunderstanding and relatability
and sharing. So I thinkeverything you touched on really
(56:19):
highlights those values. It'sbeen so useful to talk to you
about all of these projects.Jayne, I know we're over time, so
I can't thank you enough forfitting this in, particularly
when you've had a particularlyhectic time. Yeah,
I hope I've made sense. I'm kindof a bit blurry, still waking up.
No,
not at all, not at all.It's been really interesting to
(56:39):
talk this through. So sendinglots of love to Margate, where I
grew up as a kid. Yes comeback soon. Yeah, no, I continue
to visit. I still have family.and friends there. And you know
all the luck in the world asyour projects continue, and
particularly the Tiles of Joy,which will continue throughout
(57:03):
this year and also to thelisteners, thank you, of course,
for joining us. Please rememberto share this free to listen
series wherever you can, or anyof the episodes you like to help
make the arts all of ours. Thankyou again, Jayne. I really
appreciate your time. Thank
you, thank you for your time andthank you for everybody who's
listened.
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