July 30, 2022 • 59 mins
Tarek Zaidieh is an exceptionally talented violinist and member of the outstanding Orchestra for Syrian Musicians. The orchestra is described as a celebration of Syrian culture with contagious rhythms, soaring vocals and genius musicianship. Tarek has performed with the orchestra across Europe and at major festivals, including Glastonbury. You may have discovered the orchestra performing with Damon Albarn, famously known as the frontman of Blur, and co-founder and lead singer of the virtual band Gorillaz. Tarek has described some of these experiences as once in a lifetime and that the mission of the orchestra is showing the world that Syrians speak the language of peace. We talk about the violin as his second heartbeat, music as an injection of life when threatened by war and a connection to home when displaced by conflict. Tarek and the Orchestra of Syrian Musicians let the music do the talking, sharing messages of peace across the world.
Series Audio Editor - Courtesy of Joey Quan.
Series Music - Courtesy of Barry J. Gibb
Closed Captions are added to all interviews in this series. Read only, text versions of every interview can also be found here: https://www.canartsaveus.com
Discover The Orchestra of Syrian Musicians here: https://www.facebook.com/syrianorchestra/
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:03):
Welcome to this podcastseries asking the question Can
art save us? I'm starting thefirst national and international
conversation about courage andcuriosity. What do these
qualities really mean? And whydoes it make a big difference to
our mental, societal anddemocratic health? I talk to
award winning and diverseartists across the arts to
(00:24):
explore these qualities in theirlives and work, both to inspire
and first of all to learn. I'mexploring why we need these
qualities to help change theglobal epidemic of mental
illness, loneliness,polarization of our communities,
and even global conflicts. Ifthe arts cultivate courage and
curiosity, I'm asking thequestion, Can art save us? And
(00:50):
my guest today is Tarek Zaidieh, an exceptionally talented violinist
and member of the outstandingOrchestra for Syrian Musicians.
The orchestra is described as acelebration of Syrian culture
with contagious rhythms, soaringvocals and genius musicianship
Tarek has performed with theorchestra across Europe and at
major festivals, includingGlastonbury. You may have
(01:14):
discovered the orchestraperforming with Damon Albarn
famously known as the frontmanof Blur, and co founder and lead
singer of the virtual bandGorillaz. Tarik has described
some of his experiences as oncein a lifetime, and describes the
mission of the orchestra asshowing the world that Syrians
speak the language of peace.Hello, Tarek, thank you so much
(01:38):
for joining me. I knowyou've had a hugely busy
festival season, you're rushedoff your feet. So thank you very
much for joining me today.Tarek, you've also described the
violin as being like a part ofyour body. And you said, I can't
(02:00):
be away from it, as I am soconnected to it. Is the violin
like your second heartbeat?
It definitely does. It is my second heartbeat. I really can't
imagine my life without beingholding my violin or like having
like my violin around meor like playing every single
(02:23):
day, or like being on stage onstage live without a violin. So I
would definitely call it aslike, I like a complete part of
my body one of the most novelparts of my body. Definitely.
And can you remember your veryfirst encounter with it? When
you were first introduced?
Ah, I'd say it's a longstory, to be honest. But like I
(02:48):
can, like, cut it like in ashort like, like, sentences. So
I would, I would, I wouldconsider myself belonging to a
family, who were like reallyinterested in culture and music.
So my dad, he is a professor atthe Moscow University and he has
a PhD degree in literature, atthe same time he used to play
(03:14):
oud, so it's an Arabicinstrument. And he didn't study
it like professionally, but atthat time, like when he was
young, he was playing that inthe neighborhood. And like my
dad he is he was an old guy.So at the time, when he
graduated, like he finished hissecondary school, he started to
(03:34):
teach elementary and primarystudents music, so he was really
into music. And in early 80s, hetraveled to be like the director
of Syrian Cultural Institute inParis. So you know, when you are
(03:54):
abroad, you will always be like,connected with all like
immigrants or like people fromyour country has been
reallocated to other countries.So they were gathered, they were
all gathering at my house atthat time, I used to remember
when I was four or five yearsold, they were all coming
staying in my house. And my dadwill be playing oud every single
(04:15):
night and they will be likesinging this or Syrian music,
you know, like this nostalgiathing. So like, I grew up
just like seeing my dad playingon his own, like people around
like singing and me singing withthem. When we came back to Syria
in the early 90s, my dad wasworking with Ministry,
(04:36):
Ministry of Culture at thattime, and we had an institute
called Arabic Institute forMusic. So my dad used to be a
translator for music teacher atthat institute. So he used to
take me with him at some time. Ithink it was a kind of a trick
he made so he wanted to see if Iwas really interested in music
(04:58):
or not. So he was bringing me with him during
his translation session andstuff. So I think he noticed me
that I was really interested inmusic at the time. So I felt I
was I think I was like seven,eight years old. And I was
really enjoying the time, likestaying behind the door
(05:20):
listening to people practicinggetting lessons or like this
kind of like small bands and orchestras. And he asked me, So
do you like what you arehearing? I said, I definitely
like it. Are you interested totry it yourself? I said, I would
love to try it myself. So whichinstrument you would like to
try? I said, you know, when youare like really young, you
(05:43):
really don't know what you want.You'd be like you're like, fascinated
about something for some reason.So I was at that time, okay, I
need to try maybe flute orclarinet. I didn't know why. But
maybe I liked the way that thepeople they were playing on that
instrument. So I said, Okay, I'mset, okay, give it a try and
try one of them. I think thebrief at that time didn't help
(06:06):
me that much. I said, I didn'tlike it, I want something like a
little bit like easier, and Itried the violin. And I really
liked it. And since then, I haveI don't think I ever thought
about any other instrument and Ithink it was the time when I
felt this is the thing that Iwill continue my music life
(06:29):
with. I feel fortunate that Ipicked this instrument.
And now it's literally a part ofyour body. So I imagine that
means music, it has essentiallyalways been a part of your life
and with that attachment to theviolin do you think that's
(06:53):
helped you exercise yourcreativity your imagination,
your your curiosity aboutsounds? Do you think that's been
a healthy part of your life?From that point of view?
I would say yes, maybe I wouldput it in a different way so you
know when you are like a childand you like you like grew up
(07:17):
and then you pass throughyour teenager things and like
became like an adult I was oneof like my like friends who
didn't have these kinds of, Iwould call it my hobby or
anything that they would spendtime with. Whereas I was like,
really into music really intolike something really unique at
(07:37):
the time I remember my father,What are you doing like in your
free time? I said I'm learningmusic playing music. He said but
is it like kind of a boring thing?I said no, it's not a boring
thing. It's something that likewill develop your personality in
a way that you will never everlike appreciate till you are like
really... youknow, when you get older that I
(08:02):
would say so it like shapesyourself without you noticing that.
So at the beginning maybe Iwould say I was like really
becoming like more, I would notsay you're like more romantic but
I would like we're having abetter like kind of sense of
feeling unlike also how theinstrument you look at it if it
(08:23):
is like a piece of wood and it'snot a piece of wood it's
something that as much as yougive it as much as it gives you
back so like how much you putthe feeling you're feeling inside
this instrument it will expressitself and express your feeling.
In our Arabic music we have alot of improvisation things that
it doesn't really exist in theclassical music you can tell
(08:45):
it's more like when you attendlike a jazz things you know like
people will be improvising thesame situation with the Arabic
music. So, whenever you arehappy the way that you
improvising without you orrealizing you will be like
expressing your like happiness,your happy feeling, and vice
versa when you are sad. So Ithink with that, even when you
(09:07):
are like thinking about thingsor like imagining things, it
would be also expressed in yourway of playing with the
instruments. And I think duringlike the first time I started
playing with violin and and youknow I reached my 20s where I
consider myself a professionalplayers. I think it helped me on
my personal life also like to beable like to balance between my
(09:30):
time at school and also balancemy time with music and without
wasting my time was somethingthat it's just like playing
somewhere, you know, so I feltlike no, it definitely helped
me, personal wise, music wiseand also like in terms of like
my own career within the musicand outside the music.
(09:51):
Yeah, it sounds like you'redescribing a mental freedom that
is offered because of that roleof expression through through
music.
Absolutely, absolutely.
So I imagine, this has been evenmore significant in terms of how
you've coped with the crisisthat Syria has faced, described
(10:17):
as unprecedented devastation.After over a decade of war, and
I wondered, has music had atherapeutic and healing
relationship for you as well, interms of how you cope with
seeing such devastating lossesand the changes that are forced
(10:38):
upon you?
You know, like, when you workin, in, in like in a business
things or like in an industry,whatever, they will always like,
say, you need to push yourselfout of the comfort zone. For me,
my comfort zone is music is myviolin is the orchestra,
(10:58):
everything related to music. SoI think the crisis that we had
in Syria is one of the mostdevastating story that you ever
had, like in the last like,decade, so like, maybe more. So
I would say not only me, all themusicians that I know, they were
like, always thinking about themusic that we're performing.
(11:20):
Typically, our comfort zone,like we're always trying to run
away from every single thingthat we were facing in the last
10 years. And so I'm going backto the music because we've had,
this is the thing that makes uskind of relaxed as much as we
could, because out door, therewere a lot of trouble, like
(11:43):
terrible things happening. Sowhenever we lock the door, we go
inside, we start our music,we feel that we are in a
different place, and differentworld out side, all the bad
things that is happening,enjoying our life for this
couple of hours, at least, andmaking sure that we are like,
getting like ourselves at leastas much as we can to normality
(12:08):
before going back to the streetand see the miserable thing that
is happening. So yes, I wouldsay it did help us a lot. As
musicians, I would say it's alsohelped us a lot for people who
were still able to attend, orlisten to music, because music
is just like it's a healer, inlike in a for many reasons, for
(12:32):
many reasons, especially in thesituation that we had back in
Syria, a couple years back.
Yeah. And I wonder too, just toadd in context for listeners,
that you know, will have seennews stories, no doubt, but to
give them more context on themakeup of the orchestra of
(12:53):
Syrian musicians. There areexamples that are quotes of
those experiences in Syria, buthow music has helped. So one of
the singers said music thesedays is like a painkiller. She
describes regularly bravingbombs and snipers on the roads
(13:14):
on her two hour journey toDamascus to study and perform.
But she says you have to takethe risk when I sing it
hypnotizes me, I leave reality.And other musicians, these are
all from the orchestra havetalked about kidnappings being
hit by shrapnel losing familymembers, and also the demands of
(13:37):
living as a refugee missingfamily, friends your previous
life. And their emphasis is thefact that we're more than just
being a person that being humanis about connections and musical
connections, to help them not to gocrazy. And I thought these were
really powerful examples just toadd in some context. And I
(14:02):
wondered how that resonated withyou when you hear those real
life examples and in relation toyour own experience.
Yeah, so like you are sayingit's a real life examples. And I
experienced them myself as well.I would add one thing. So as a
human being, you can't livewithout food and water. And you
(14:25):
will like whatever is happeningoutside you will always go out
to get them in because you won'tbe able to live without that. So
imagine that you know there is adanger happening in danger, like
the danger of things happeningoutside and you are still going
outside to performing music soyou can't turn now how much
music is important for you thatyou can't live without your
(14:47):
music and you're risking yourlife just to get to the place to
perform music and you're stilldoing that. We're like in the
time that you can still do it athome at some point but because
you want to share your musicwith your colleagues with others
and do the things that you usedto do enjoy the music experience
you're feeling through yourinstruments. And you are staying
(15:09):
doing that. Regardless all thetrouble that is happening
outside the door. I know thepeople that you already
mentioned, I know them by namesI know how to refine for them
was to get to the place where weused to do our rehearsals. But
by the time that we gathered, westarted in the music, I can tell
you like all the fields that wehad inside during our way to get
(15:30):
to place it just gone. It's justlike vanish. Once we get our
music up and running, I can'ttell you we are completely in a
different world completely in adifferent world. It's It's really
sad to say what what washappening. But we we knew at the
time when we were rehearsing weknow that in couple of days,
(15:52):
there is a show happening, or anevent happening in the throes of
Damascus opera. And when we knowthat, at the box, like the box
tickets, lots of tickets hasbeen already sold. We know that
there is people coming liketaking the risk to come to
attend us. So it would be a bigshame for us not to be on stage.
(16:15):
Because people they need this.You said like as as my colleague
said it's a painkiller. It'sdefinitely a painkiller. It's
it's, it's, it's a healer, as Isaid at the beginning of this
interview. So once you know thatsomeone, it's like when, when there
is a patient is going to aclinic, and there's a physician,
(16:36):
that clinic will be prescribingmedication for you. So you can't
be presenting in your clinic.And you know that there is a
patient over there waiting foryou. And for us, we are the
healer, for the patients who wascoming to attend a concert. So
we treat our audience at thattime that they are in, they need
(16:58):
us. And at the same time we needthem we needed someone to see
that we have something that wewanted to deliver because it's
like it's a link between theaudience and the performer at the
same time. So it's I would sayit's like, it's, it's a
combination of both, to behonest, it's a combination of
(17:20):
both. So yeah, we all did ourtests, we risked our life at some
point, but it was worth it. And we all like we felt that we couldn't
survive mentally to now, withoutbeing able to afford our music
on a regular basis.
I find it fascinating andthere's I'm sure you know more
(17:43):
scientific study in therelationship of arts and well
being. And when you start toreally examine what is that
power? Or what is that magic, inrelation to this example of
music, it's interesting that previous guests have also talked
(18:04):
about the hypnotic power ofrhythm in music and in dance and
how that's helped transportthem. Do you think that that is
literally like a neurologicalprocess through the power of
music that it transports youaway from fear or threats? And
(18:24):
and that is somehow the magic ofmusic?
I will say yes, sometimes likeso, so I could tell you whenever
you are listening to a music, soyou would like as like a Western
person listening maybe to anArabic music and especially like
an Arabic song, you may notunderstand what what we are
(18:45):
singing. So you either don'tunderstand the language and vice
versa. For example, if I'mlistening to like, a French song
because I don't speak French orlike a Spanish song, I don't
know understand. But sometimesyou just like while you are
listening you feel that there's tears in your eyes, or like you have
some goosebumps. And you willnever know why. But because the
(19:05):
rhythm or the melody of themusic, it's just like, like,
take you somewhere it's likewhen you are listening and then
you just don't realize that Ipassed like 10 minutes or I'd
already travel by time or youremember something that you
think about it. And you willnever think why I'm thinking
about that it just because ofthe music because it's just take
(19:27):
you somewhere they will neverever imagine that will just like
like lets things inside you justmoves. You know? And just like
let you think, Oh, I'm reallyI'm really in a in a different
world. Last time I was like Ithink I was attending a concert
in London two weeks ago. And itwas like a part for the opera
(19:51):
for Bocelli. And the area thearea that I was listening to, I
have listened to itlike I I, I swear it's more than
100 times since like a newmusic. And I cried. I cried
again and like, my wife asked mewhy are you crying every single
time you listen to it? I said, Idon't know what that is
(20:14):
something like inside me likecausing my tears just like to
follow from on my eyes. So yeah,there is something magic with
the music that like lets thingsinto your body just like goes up
and down without like youcontrolling that.
And it does seem to me that, youknow, this really does respond
(20:36):
to the series question, Can artsave us? Tshis is a good example
of how the arts can help us howthe arts can save us from
perhaps mental distress and fearif we understand how to embrace
the arts and in this case,music. Do you see that having a
(20:58):
more and more important role?And even for example, a Syria
rebuilds? Do you think it willhave a larger part to play that
maybe was once understood therole of arts and culture as a
place is rebuilt?
(21:20):
Can you can you repeat yourquestion once more? That's okay.
Yeah, of course, I'm reallyinterested in what we're
discussing the power of, of thearts in in this example of
music. And I wondered if you sawit having more and more
importance in terms of how weembrace the arts, whether it's
(21:45):
in health recovery, or postconflict post war. So for
example, rebuilding Syria,perhaps there being even more
emphasis on the importance ofarts and culture in order to
help communities come togetheragain.
Yes, I would say yes, I willtell you one thing. So maybe I
(22:08):
wouldn't say till now, because Ifeel I think like senior people
are getting bored of liketalking about politics, but I
think sadly, saying that thislike the senior
population has been dividedbecause of like political point
of view, what's happening inSyria and this like really
caused a lot of like conflictsbetween friends between families
(22:30):
between like colleagues and itwas really hard to see like
people that they were likespending lots of time together
and then because of whathappened in Syria, they were
like having like bad like,different views and it causes
like, kind of like, disconnectssad disconnects between others.
And I could tell we face thislike, like, on a regular basis
(22:53):
between musicians but what Icould tell we are playing in an
orchestra. And once we gatheredall together, you feel that
okay, that conversation hasstopped and now we are all
surrounded by music we are alllike back on the same table
doing the same things sharingthe same joy, happiness and
(23:14):
music. And I can tell you, maybeI will be arguing with my
colleagues for a certain pointfor hours. And then Okay, it's
time for rehearsing andgathering let's play together
after three four hours ofplaying when we go back to the
same topic you will not be inthe same tension as you used to
be before that rehearsal. Soit's not because of gatherings
(23:38):
it's because of the music because wewere playing it together and you
know with playing it's not onlyabout like, looking to the music
like sheet that you are playingit's about also the eye contact
between you and the oppositeends like that playing a
different instrument. So you cantell there is like an eye
contact you speak by your byyour eyes when you go outside
(24:02):
after the rehearsal when youlike you connect again you feel
like why I did have this tensionwith you before the rehearsal or
like I did feel something reallyspecial to you while we're
playing. I felt that youunderstood me. You gave me the
power to perform better okay, ifyou go back to that time, I feel
like no we should be like alittle bit like more calm to
(24:22):
each other. We could respecteach other more we could like
get to a point that made thepoint that you agree with my
thoughts I can agree with mythoughts. If I reflect this to
the wider thing to the wholethings happening in Syria, I
could tell yes, music, art candefinitely bring people back
(24:45):
together, could definitelymake them look at things in a
bit of a better way. And it'salways like, you know, if you go
back in time, like in history, whatwe see now from like a like from
Asian people like fromprevious, it's what they left to
us as an art or a music you willnever like talk about like any
(25:08):
like a very old generation aboutother things you always talk
like what when you feel like yousee tourists and people going
away around, they always lookabout art about like cultural
things that are left for us tolook now. So now what we are
saying, saying we don't peoplelike to, to remember the sad
story about Syria that we need toremove them to remember what had
(25:30):
Syria has to be rebuiltagain. And I believe that music
is a crucial thing. Art is acrucial thing to bring the
country back to what it used tobe 10 years back.
Yeah, I mean, Syria is famous,isn't it as a one of the most
ancient civilizations that wasalways arts rich. So it would
(25:54):
seem a natural relationship,wouldn't it to return to the
arts? Absolutely. Would you saythat when you perhaps feel
disconnected or just homesickfor example, because of course,
we're talking in the UK today, ismusic, the thing that instantly
(26:17):
reconnects you to your home toDamascus?
I will tell you a funny thing.So I came to UK in 2017 to do my
PhD in here in the UK. So I came to do my PhD in pharmacy
degree. So I am holding apharmacy degree aside of my
music degree. So when I gotI got my placement here in the
(26:41):
UK, before me checking whatthings I will be having as like
labs and stuff I was saying atthe university, do they have any
music school? Do they have anyorchestral things? So the first
things ever that I wanted tohave here things that will link
(27:04):
me again to music, I don't wantto be coming to the UK spending
a lot of time during my PhD formy pharmacy and then just losing
my music or playing myviolin, I know that we'll be
able to play it at home but Iwanted to be like connecting
with others through the music.So it was the most important
(27:26):
thing that I was hoping to haveit and luckily enough, I was
fortunate to know that the thePortsmouth University where I
did my PhD, they used to have anorchestra, which I like, the
first day I came next day I wentto the university, I said, Okay,
I need to do something myself at the music, like a
(27:47):
group within the the universityand then be a member of the
orchestra. So yes, it definitelyreminds me to like, to my time
in Damascus, I spent in like inSyria more than 10 years playing
with the senior nationalsecurity guests orchestra, for the
Syrian office of Arabic music. So I couldn't tolerate being out or
(28:12):
like away from orchestra. It'sIt's it's sad that I do still
miss playing with my colleaguesover there. But at least playing
now here, it's it's alwaysgiving me that opportunity to
bring all the nice, lovelymemory that I used to have back
(28:33):
home with my colleagues inDamascus.
And Tarek, what are the soundsof home, which may be additional
to musical sounds? What are thesounds of home, that your
fondest of?
Family friends, like street, theneighborhood. But I'm not saying
(28:57):
this because of the purpose ofthis interview. But I could tell
because the majority of timethat I spent after me graduating
from my university and School ofMusic, it was sadly the time
that we spent it during the war.And at that time we'd like
(29:18):
during the war, we were likealso spending a lot of time in
the Damascus opera house whilewe are like doing our
rehearsals, and I can tell youthat we were sometimes like
sheltering in there when we hadlike a lot of bombs happening in
Damascus because of the war. Sowe used to spend lots of lots of
(29:39):
time over there. So it was a badopportunity to do that but at
the same time, it's like it gaveus an opportunity to do a lot of
music at the same time evenwithout doing like an like a
proper show. It gave us a lot oftime to just to practice. So we
used to spend 5,6, 7 hours a dayover there. So I felt that the
(30:04):
Damascus opera house at sometime became my home. I used to
see my friends over there morethan what they used to see my
family, my parents. So you feelnow like when I remember, I
always start to remember what weused to do inside rather than
what what was happening outside.So for me home, Syria is an
amazing country is like a reallynice country, lovely country,
(30:27):
the senior population is one ofthe most friendliest, like
humble people. You will, likeever see. We had bad things
happening in the country and theconflict over them. But
whenever I remember, see, Iremember the like the lovely
country, lovely people, thelovely music we used to
(30:47):
have, and we are hoping thiswill come back to normal very
soon.
How do you cope with the tragedythat has happened? I imagine
the conflict has asked people tobe so courageous in so many
different ways, and particularlywhen people have been displaced,
(31:12):
and on such a massive scale, Imean, it's one of the massive
displacements of around 7million people at least, as well
as internal displacement. It'son such a vast scale of tragedy
when you're describing a placethat are was so friendly and kind
(31:32):
and happy connections andrelationships. What's your
relationship been with couragein terms of being able to cope
with all of this?
So the conflict Syria started2011. And I left the country
early 2017. So I spent more thanfive, almost six years over
(31:54):
there, why the conflicts happen.So personally, I wasn't willing
to leave the country, I waswilling to stay, it was really,
really hard to leave yourfamily, especially your parents
who are like, old enough, thatyou travel, and then you can
feel like kind of guilty,leaving them this bad situation.
(32:16):
But as a parent, they alwayslike try to find the best.
Like they said, like, kidslike, Sons Daughters
saying, like, go now. Try tofind your future. And when the
country is, like back to normal,you can't come back. So it
wasn't an easy decision for me.And I could tell if I didn't
(32:39):
find my opportunity to get likea higher degree, and then come
back later in the future to helpin rebuilding my country, I
wouldn't do that. So I wouldstay and I stayed for five, six
years, I would say the five, sixyears that I spent in the
country, it was one of the worsttime during the war. So now the
situation here is not thatgreat, but at least in terms of
(33:00):
the life of bombing and stuff,it's it's much better, but the
quality of life nowadays notthat great in terms of the
sanctions that we have unlimitedof resources. But thinking about
other people, like a lot ofpeople had to flee the country
because they were in fear ofbeing kidnapped or like sadly
enough, they lost their houses,they lost their home, they
(33:23):
wanted to find another place tobe sheltering to be like living.
So yes, like you. Sometimes youwere forced to do that.
Sometimes, because we werelooking for a better future.
Sometimes you feel like you hadto do it. Personally, I had the
courage to do it. But I couldtell that I have been pushed
(33:45):
by my parents or my friends.Just go now you have a great
opportunity, you can get a lotof things you can bring it back
to to us, help us likerebuilding the country. I'm
hoping lots of others have thesame way of thinking for the
future for the country as well.
Absolutely. So perhaps musicalso, part of the magic of
(34:12):
music, if you like is the factthat it also helps build
resilience. So we were talkingabout you know, the magic of
music in terms of connections orlanguage even or peacekeeping,
you know, calming tensions down.Do you think that it also offers
something in terms ofresilience, you know, that helps
(34:33):
people feel braver and more ableto face their circumstances?
I would say yes, so like, Iremember lots of people like
attending our concert tonightduring that, the war, they
were saying, You know what, Iwas completely depressed. I was
(34:55):
super depressed before cominginto the concert. I felt like
there is no hope at all. I feltlike I don't have any like
energy to go to more, towardsface all these issues during the
my way towards checkpoints andthe risk of being like shot
or like kidnapped or whatever.But after the concert today, I
feel like you you just like, getmy heart pumping again, you
(35:20):
let me feel like I like Ineed to get like more courage to
do my work again, enjoy my day.I know this is a bad war but
this is temporary things that islight at the end of this tunnel.
And I'm sure they like you willbe like there is something good
happening. Maybe not tomorrow,maybe not, like next week, but
(35:42):
at the end of the day, it willit will be happening. So I would
say yes, music is is somethingthat gives you I would say the
hope get a better future. AndI'm sure that lots of us are
sharing this, this this thissame things as me.
(36:03):
And I would mention to listenersnow that if not already, if they
haven't listened to theOrchestra of Syria Musicians,
yeah, make it a priority jumponto YouTube, at the very least,
because that description ofsoaring vocals and genius
musicianship is absolutely true.It is so incredibly uplifting,
(36:29):
but the complexity of the soundsand the music, it's very
otherworldly. And you know,you're all beautifully in time
and in tune with each other andyet it seems so incredibly
complex at the same time.
It does you know what you saidsomething about Syria at the
beginning, so Syria, if you lookto the location of Syria on the
(36:52):
on the map, it's in the it'slike when we say in the Middle
East it's like it's in the middleof like of the Middle East. So
like we have been influenced bylots of nations lots of like,
because like we like throughoutthroughout the time, like we are
at the middle of the linkbetween the West and the East.
(37:12):
So these influence our culturedefinitely and mainly our music
so our music is mixed betweenthe East and the West. So that's
why like you said the wordcomplex is definitely complex,
but the way of complexcomplexity is something really
interesting very enjoyable. AndI can tell you that our last or
(37:33):
latest show that we had inBrighton Festival so I was so
happy when we came to dorehearsing I was like chatting
with the organizers so I saidhow are the tickets like going?
They said so the venue can likeoccupy 1500 like audience so I
(37:57):
said and what is it now they saidso far you are doing the best so
it's like we thought 1200 and thereis still two days to go and when we
went on the stage on the day ofthe show it was like completely
full I am honestly sayingcompletely full and when I
looked I looked like all thepeople that were attending
(38:18):
you can say they are not onlyArabs they were like all mix
like between like Arabs and nonArabs I would say Arabs because
I know that they love they knowour music they know like what we
are singing because cinema musicis like well known within the
Arab countries. But when you seethere is lots of foreigners
attending and then the amount ofhow they interact with us
(38:40):
you can tell ourmusic is like like it's touching
their hearts so it's like it'sengaging everyone is not only a
certain part of the world if ifI can say that?
And you must find thatincredibly uplifting because do
you think it is just a huge andwonderful statement of humanity
that all these different peoplecome together through this
(39:03):
music?
Absolutely. I think music islike it's a language it's a
language of peace. It'ssomething that we as Orchestra
of Syrian Mmusicians we arelike really working hard to
deliver this to everyone. Likeit's hard it's really sad to
(39:24):
know whenever you say to someonethe word Syria they will always
link it to the war they willalways link it to like death
they will always link it toconflict crisis and stuff. I
know this is this this is thisis like a nature things to
happen when a war is like ishappening but what we want to
let people know no it's not thisabout Syria is full of talented
(39:46):
people is full of like it'sreally rich. In its culture with
the music was like lost lots ofthings. And now this is our duty
to deliver our music and likelet people know the the real
story behind the lovely Syria.
It feels like your concerts areresurrections. You literally
(40:09):
bring back everything back tolife.
We do. We do. We do. And I thinklike every single music player
will agree with that music is isa resurrection things are
different.
I'm talking of, you know, richcultural histories and the rich
culture you all share. It'sfascinating, of course that
(40:34):
along came Damon Albarn. Yeah,yeah. And things changed again.
Would you like to share some ofthat story for the listeners who
may not know about thatrelationship?
Oh, yeah. So yeah. So I thinkpeople will be like really
interested to know about theOrchestra of Syrian Musicians
how this orchestra was born. Sowe all studied, or we all
(41:01):
studied at this higher Institutefor Music in Damascus. And the
majority of us were playing inthe Syrian National Symphony
Orchestra. Once this thewar started in Syria, lots of
the musicians used to flee thecountry. And they were relocated
all over the all over the world.Before the war started, Damon
(41:21):
Albarn with Gorillaz came toSyria. And we had a recording
with him in in Syria. So this iswas this was the first project
that we had with him at thattime. And then some musicians
went with him in a tour aroundthe world at that time to like
for the album that they produced.In 2016 Africa Express came
(41:45):
with this brilliant idea toreunite the musicians, Syrian
musicians, who fled the countrywith the musicians who remained
with the country. And they did,I would say, a really big favor
for all of us to gather us allonce again. And we form at that
time the Orchestra of SyrianMusicians. So it's formed or
(42:09):
consists of as Syrianmusicians, outside Syria, and
inside Syria, we gathered in2016, Amsterdam we did like a
couple of rehearsals over timeover that time, and then we did
like a tour in Europe. And weperformed two or three songs
with Damon Albarn. So it wasanother opportunity to be with
(42:30):
him again. It was a reallyamazing time with him, and we
performed with him inGlastonbury festival. And since
then, we have this Orchestra ofSyrian Musicians and we gather
from time to time, once we havelike got a funding or like
invite from festivals, and weare hoping like to expand more
(42:54):
and more to get like more peopleto be playing with us or even
guests to be playing with us.And because of COVID, we didn't
have the chance to do anythingin the last two years, which
like affected everyone. But oncethe Brighton Festival invited us
to perform over there, we werelike really happy that we'd be
back on stage. And like having afull venue. It was an amazing
(43:19):
things, and amazing.
And it just seems reallywonderful that by having these
collaborations and and thatexample of the work you did with
Damon Albarn introducing you toall sorts of new audiences and
new audiences equallydiscovering all of these new
musical traditions orinfluences. It's another
(43:41):
example, isn't it of thehumanity of music? And perhaps,
how music functions as alanguage?
Yeah, absolutely. And I thinkbecause when Damon came the
first time to Syria, and then Iwould say if he didn't believe
(44:03):
in us, he didn't likereally like our music and if our
music and his album at that time then like really touched a lot
of audience all around theworld, and I can remember that
my friend went with him in histour in Europe, Australia. And
they told us like, because atthat time, he had some Arabic
instrument with his band. So Ithink he had an ney which is
(44:27):
like a kind of an Arabic flute,and also some strings playing
with him but playing an Arabicmusic mixed with his music, and
they could, they told us atthat time it was a really new
and interesting things foreveryone or there is something
that we were not aware aboutthat we have exposed to
(44:49):
something that is really new,but it has been hidden
somewhere. And I think Damongave us the chance to explore
our music and now, back here2022 now we are sharing this
music was a bigger audience, andwe got a chance to like to
explore it in the UK hoping tolike more all over the world, I
(45:10):
think now we are like in areally great position. And
people are getting to know usmore and more by time.
And it always seems socelebrating when you see,
you know, clips of you allperforming as an orchestra, and
that wonderful combination ofinstruments and traditions and
(45:31):
whether it's happilycomplex, because it's so rich,
it seems very celebratory,does it feel celebratory when
you all perform together?
It does and like, you willnever ever attend a music
concert for us without seeing usall smiling, like like without
(45:51):
noticing. We just like smile,you start playing music and your
smile would be just like thrownon your face straightaway. Our
music is like full of singingfull of joy, full of like
happiness. So it it just it justmake you happy. Just make you
happy.
And you've described theorchestra as a family. It does.
(46:12):
Yeah. Would you like to talkabout that a little because, of
course, you're a group of peoplethat have experienced terrible
things through through the war,displacement, and yet united by
music. And it was interestingwhen you said earlier how music
can also dampen down tensions.How does it how does it feel as
(46:39):
a family?
Like, you know, like, as much asyou grow up in time, you will
always feel that you miss yourbrother, you miss your sister,
you miss you like parents wholike kids. And I said we used to
spend a lot of time and some ofus left the country at 2011. And
some of them left later. Butwhen we reunited a decade later
(47:03):
2016, I reunited with somepeople that I haven't met them
for five years, six years. Sowhen I met them the first time
especially I met them outside mycountry. So I am like, you know,
I have been displaced so youfeel like you you really need to
go back to someone that hereminds you to home. So when I'm
(47:24):
like and now here after two yearsof Covid I'm for example I'm
living in Swansea, my otherfriend is living in London other
is living like in Scotland. Andwhen we gathered again, ahh
I can smell the home again, Ican't feel home again. Like when
I speak in my Arabic languagewith him. I feel like ah, I like
(47:46):
the conversation that we arehaving. I feel you know what, I
feel that we are back inDamascus talking not in London
talking not in UK talking. So,family is not about only being
with your family member, it'salso being with your family
member at home. And wheneverlike we gathered, especially
last time in Brighton we were like20 People like performing
(48:08):
and all like coming again, onceagain. I told them you know what
I feel I'm in Damascus OperaHouse now playing and I
feel that we are you gonna goout going to like X & Y Street
that we used to do hang out orlike do something together
outside. But come back toreality. We're in the UK and
Brighton, which we'd like we'rehappy with that. But again, it
(48:32):
takes you somewhere else thatyou feel that this is the place
that you would always love to bein.
So what you're describing isreally powerful bonds that music
is also bonding you together asas a family as an orchestra. Do
you feel that? The emotionalconnections are stronger than
(48:56):
ever?
Definitely. Yes. Yeah.
So from that point of view, canyou imagine your life if you
weren't a musician?
No, no, it's impossible. It'simpossible. I I really don't
(49:18):
know because it's impossible.I'll tell you why. I as I said,
at the beginning, I started mymusic at very early time of my
life. And I felt that I grew upwith music being around. So it's
not it's not a thing that like II got, what it was like 15, 20
years back, like, what 15 yearsor something that I know how I
(49:41):
used to be before and after.After that I grew up. And music
was a crucial part of my life, acrucial part in my family. I
have a sister and brother mybrother, he is a cello player
and my sister she's a pianist aswell. So like we like I grew up,
(50:02):
and I know there is alwayssomeone playing music in the
house. So I can't imagine myselfwithout being a musician.
Today it to me, it would justseem that you literally wouldn't
be alive, you just wouldn't havea heartbeat.
No, no, it's my second heart, Ihave one heart on the left, that
(50:27):
is on another heart on the onthe right. I can tell my left
one is keeping me physicallyalive. But the one that is
keeping me mentally alive.
Can I put something to you,which was really shocking to
read, it was news published thismonth by the UN, the United
(50:50):
Nations Refugee Agency. And theysaid that the global number of
forcibly displaced people haspassed 100 million for the first
time, through conflict andviolence. And it's it's just so
overwhelming to think of, of theworld in that state. And I know
(51:14):
that you have that very clearmessage as an orchestra in terms
of sharing the language ofpeace. And so when I read that
awful statistic, I wondered whatyour hopes are for the orchestra
in terms of being able to spreadthat language of peace?
(51:37):
It's a really good question. Soin order to be able to like to
deliver the message or life toshare our thoughts about music
is the language of peace, youneed to be able to get more
chances to perform more chances,like more events, to explore
(51:59):
what you want to watch you areperforming. So I think things
that the orchestra has beenperformed, we had a lot of
chances to be playing in eventshere in the UK or in Europe. But
what I would really hope that weget more fundings more
opportunities, and moreawareness about or case officer
(52:25):
named musicians, then ourmessage will be delivered
widely. We, we get more peopleto play with us. And we are
hoping to get this in the nearfuture as well. So to get the
story, the long story short, weare hoping to get more fundings
be more recognized, be able liketo play here and there. And I'm
(52:49):
by that, I would say that wecould really deliver our message
that the Syrian Music is alanguage of peace.
And would you also say a way ofunderstanding the language of
peace is because it doesn't relyon any one particular language
(53:13):
that music or that music,what I'm really trying to ask is
how you explain the language ofpeace? Is it because the music
means that nobody has to rely onany one particular language is
(53:34):
almost operating on a on aspiritual level if you like?
I would say it's a trading it'sa sharing language. So when you
are saying a sharing language I'msaying or sharing language, it
doesn't mean necessarily that weneed to speak the same language
in order to perform same inmusic, I could, I could speak
(53:55):
nothing and you could speaknothing but we can still play
together. So that is somethingthat can link us easily get us
to be more connected without theneed of like saying any single
word. So I think the music canbring anyone and can link anyone
without any barriers. So yes,music is is is a sharing
(54:20):
thing is a language foreveryone. And you can tell the
war can displace everyone,conflict can displace everyone,
but music can bring everyonetogether. And whenever we go to
the city, when you see likepeople gathering, you always
assume that it's like kind oflike someone's singing someone
is playing or like a band issinging or some like a band is
(54:43):
performing. So it's always areason for a peaceful gathering.
Whereas when you see like peopleare just like, running away or
like scared or something isalways the opposite side of the
thing.
And it's seems improvisation isreally interesting when earlier
(55:04):
in the interview, you weresaying it's similar to some of
the jazz traditions, you know,where improvisation is part of
how you play. And so that'sunexpected. It's a dialogue that
is created there and then onthe spot, how would you how
would you describe that processor how you read each other when
(55:26):
you improvise?
I'd say something that can't beeasily explained, but as I said,
and a part of the Arabic inmusic, especially for these
Arabic instruments, like oud,like ney, and even these kinds
of percussion, this instrumenthas been created as an
(55:46):
improvising instruments. Andwhenever they are performing in
a bigger orchestra in a band,there is always room for them to
improve or improvise. But youcan tell whenever there is like,
it's kinda I say, there's a kindof dialogue, they, and is trying
to play you the other will replyto it. And without like, it's
(56:07):
like, there's too like me andyou now we're having this kind
of like a twoways of conversation. People who
attend our attends our, our, ourconcert, and there is like
a like piece forimprovising, they will all be
like super happy, super, likereally interested about oh,
what's going on on the face, youcan tell that this instrument is
(56:29):
playing now the other is goingto be replying. And it's a way
of communication. It's a way oflike interacting between both of
them. So yes, I would reallyencourage people to come to our
next show, and see how theseArabic instruments are
improvising, because it's gonnabe something unique that you
have never ever experiencedbefore. Oh, absolutely.
(56:50):
I couldn't agree more. And Ithink it invites a lovely
openness or curiosity, becauseof all the lovely things that
are going on, it makes you wantto know more or hear more or
become part of it. It's it'sincredibly unifying, both for
you as musicians as anorchestra, but also for the
audience. I think it unifiesliterally everybody. Is that how
(57:13):
it feels when you perform?
Yeah, it does, it does. And Ican tell, I can remember
something like, funny happenedin our last show in the
Brighton. So I was sitting witha guy who was responsible for
the lightning for the event. SoI told him just after the break,
we have like a specific piecethat we'll be playing, it's
(57:35):
going to be like, just forimprovising. So we have five
instruments who be improvising.So we have the oud we have the
ney, we have the qanun, aswell. And we have the percussion
and we have the keyboardimprovising. So I said maybe in
that piece, you can get thelight a little bit down, and
just like have a spot on everysingle prayer player. And
because there'll be like,improvising in order. So it
(57:58):
would be really nice to have aspot on each player improvising.
So I said, I can tell you whichone will be improvising. So you
can fade the light in and out onthe specific player. And I said,
Do you need like a piece ofpaper to write down which will
go first? And second? Becausethat would be like switching? He
(58:19):
said, No, I can tell, I canfeel it. I can see it before
it's happening. So. So this is areally simple example, how
audiences can really have thefeeling just because they are
seeing what's happening on thestage. So they can like kind of
predict what's happening beforeit's really happening. Because
(58:40):
this kind of improvising is justengaged the audience by time
with the music that's happeningon stage and this will
definitely reflect positively onthe performance, performance,
the performance himself.
Tarek is just such a fascinatingdescription. I can't thank you
enough for your time today. AndI also can't thank you enough
(59:03):
for pouring so much beautifulmusic back into the world and
with that very important purposeof spreading the message of
peace. You all do it joyously,beautifully, courageously,
generously. I just hopeeverybody can come and encounter
(59:23):
the orchestra as soon as theycan. Thank you so much for your
time today Tarek.
Thank you so much for having mehere today. I was really happy
to share my feelings and also toshare everything on behalf of
the Orchestra of SyrianMusicians that they would say, at
least what I have already saidand maybe more.
Really appreciate it. Thank you,Tarek. Thank you Paula.
Welcome to this podcastseries asking the question Can
art save us? I'm starting thefirst national and international
conversation about courage andcuriosity. What do these
qualities really mean? And whydoes it make a big difference to
our mental, societal anddemocratic health? I talk to
award winning and diverseartists across the arts to
(00:24):
explore these qualities in theirlives and work, both to inspire
and first of all to learn. I'mexploring why we need these
qualities to help change theglobal epidemic of mental
illness, loneliness,polarization of our communities,
and even global conflicts. Ifthe arts cultivate courage and
curiosity, I'm asking thequestion, Can art save us? And
(00:50):
my guest today is Tarek Zaidieh, an exceptionally talented violinist
and member of the outstandingOrchestra for Syrian Musicians.
The orchestra is described as acelebration of Syrian culture
with contagious rhythms, soaringvocals and genius musicianship
Tarek has performed with theorchestra across Europe and at
major festivals, includingGlastonbury. You may have
(01:14):
discovered the orchestraperforming with Damon Albarn
famously known as the frontmanof Blur, and co founder and lead
singer of the virtual bandGorillaz. Tarik has described
some of his experiences as oncein a lifetime, and describes the
mission of the orchestra asshowing the world that Syrians
speak the language of peace.Hello, Tarek, thank you so much
(01:38):
for joining me. I knowyou've had a hugely busy
festival season, you're rushedoff your feet. So thank you very
much for joining me today.Tarek, you've also described the
violin as being like a part ofyour body. And you said, I can't
(02:00):
be away from it, as I am soconnected to it. Is the violin
like your second heartbeat?
It definitely does. It is my second heartbeat. I really can't
imagine my life without beingholding my violin or like having
like my violin around meor like playing every single
(02:23):
day, or like being on stage onstage live without a violin. So I
would definitely call it aslike, I like a complete part of
my body one of the most novelparts of my body. Definitely.
And can you remember your veryfirst encounter with it? When
you were first introduced?
Ah, I'd say it's a longstory, to be honest. But like I
(02:48):
can, like, cut it like in ashort like, like, sentences. So
I would, I would, I wouldconsider myself belonging to a
family, who were like reallyinterested in culture and music.
So my dad, he is a professor atthe Moscow University and he has
a PhD degree in literature, atthe same time he used to play
(03:14):
oud, so it's an Arabicinstrument. And he didn't study
it like professionally, but atthat time, like when he was
young, he was playing that inthe neighborhood. And like my
dad he is he was an old guy.So at the time, when he
graduated, like he finished hissecondary school, he started to
(03:34):
teach elementary and primarystudents music, so he was really
into music. And in early 80s, hetraveled to be like the director
of Syrian Cultural Institute inParis. So you know, when you are
(03:54):
abroad, you will always be like,connected with all like
immigrants or like people fromyour country has been
reallocated to other countries.So they were gathered, they were
all gathering at my house atthat time, I used to remember
when I was four or five yearsold, they were all coming
staying in my house. And my dadwill be playing oud every single
(04:15):
night and they will be likesinging this or Syrian music,
you know, like this nostalgiathing. So like, I grew up
just like seeing my dad playingon his own, like people around
like singing and me singing withthem. When we came back to Syria
in the early 90s, my dad wasworking with Ministry,
(04:36):
Ministry of Culture at thattime, and we had an institute
called Arabic Institute forMusic. So my dad used to be a
translator for music teacher atthat institute. So he used to
take me with him at some time. Ithink it was a kind of a trick
he made so he wanted to see if Iwas really interested in music
(04:58):
or not. So he was bringing me with him during
his translation session andstuff. So I think he noticed me
that I was really interested inmusic at the time. So I felt I
was I think I was like seven,eight years old. And I was
really enjoying the time, likestaying behind the door
(05:20):
listening to people practicinggetting lessons or like this
kind of like small bands and orchestras. And he asked me, So
do you like what you arehearing? I said, I definitely
like it. Are you interested totry it yourself? I said, I would
love to try it myself. So whichinstrument you would like to
try? I said, you know, when youare like really young, you
(05:43):
really don't know what you want.You'd be like you're like, fascinated
about something for some reason.So I was at that time, okay, I
need to try maybe flute orclarinet. I didn't know why. But
maybe I liked the way that thepeople they were playing on that
instrument. So I said, Okay, I'mset, okay, give it a try and
try one of them. I think thebrief at that time didn't help
(06:06):
me that much. I said, I didn'tlike it, I want something like a
little bit like easier, and Itried the violin. And I really
liked it. And since then, I haveI don't think I ever thought
about any other instrument and Ithink it was the time when I
felt this is the thing that Iwill continue my music life
(06:29):
with. I feel fortunate that Ipicked this instrument.
And now it's literally a part ofyour body. So I imagine that
means music, it has essentiallyalways been a part of your life
and with that attachment to theviolin do you think that's
(06:53):
helped you exercise yourcreativity your imagination,
your your curiosity aboutsounds? Do you think that's been
a healthy part of your life?From that point of view?
I would say yes, maybe I wouldput it in a different way so you
know when you are like a childand you like you like grew up
(07:17):
and then you pass throughyour teenager things and like
became like an adult I was oneof like my like friends who
didn't have these kinds of, Iwould call it my hobby or
anything that they would spendtime with. Whereas I was like,
really into music really intolike something really unique at
(07:37):
the time I remember my father,What are you doing like in your
free time? I said I'm learningmusic playing music. He said but
is it like kind of a boring thing?I said no, it's not a boring
thing. It's something that likewill develop your personality in
a way that you will never everlike appreciate till you are like
really... youknow, when you get older that I
(08:02):
would say so it like shapesyourself without you noticing that.
So at the beginning maybe Iwould say I was like really
becoming like more, I would notsay you're like more romantic but
I would like we're having abetter like kind of sense of
feeling unlike also how theinstrument you look at it if it
(08:23):
is like a piece of wood and it'snot a piece of wood it's
something that as much as yougive it as much as it gives you
back so like how much you putthe feeling you're feeling inside
this instrument it will expressitself and express your feeling.
In our Arabic music we have alot of improvisation things that
it doesn't really exist in theclassical music you can tell
(08:45):
it's more like when you attendlike a jazz things you know like
people will be improvising thesame situation with the Arabic
music. So, whenever you arehappy the way that you
improvising without you orrealizing you will be like
expressing your like happiness,your happy feeling, and vice
versa when you are sad. So Ithink with that, even when you
(09:07):
are like thinking about thingsor like imagining things, it
would be also expressed in yourway of playing with the
instruments. And I think duringlike the first time I started
playing with violin and and youknow I reached my 20s where I
consider myself a professionalplayers. I think it helped me on
my personal life also like to beable like to balance between my
(09:30):
time at school and also balancemy time with music and without
wasting my time was somethingthat it's just like playing
somewhere, you know, so I feltlike no, it definitely helped
me, personal wise, music wiseand also like in terms of like
my own career within the musicand outside the music.
(09:51):
Yeah, it sounds like you'redescribing a mental freedom that
is offered because of that roleof expression through through
music.
Absolutely, absolutely.
So I imagine, this has been evenmore significant in terms of how
you've coped with the crisisthat Syria has faced, described
(10:17):
as unprecedented devastation.After over a decade of war, and
I wondered, has music had atherapeutic and healing
relationship for you as well, interms of how you cope with
seeing such devastating lossesand the changes that are forced
(10:38):
upon you?
You know, like, when you workin, in, in like in a business
things or like in an industry,whatever, they will always like,
say, you need to push yourselfout of the comfort zone. For me,
my comfort zone is music is myviolin is the orchestra,
(10:58):
everything related to music. SoI think the crisis that we had
in Syria is one of the mostdevastating story that you ever
had, like in the last like,decade, so like, maybe more. So
I would say not only me, all themusicians that I know, they were
like, always thinking about themusic that we're performing.
(11:20):
Typically, our comfort zone,like we're always trying to run
away from every single thingthat we were facing in the last
10 years. And so I'm going backto the music because we've had,
this is the thing that makes uskind of relaxed as much as we
could, because out door, therewere a lot of trouble, like
(11:43):
terrible things happening. Sowhenever we lock the door, we go
inside, we start our music,we feel that we are in a
different place, and differentworld out side, all the bad
things that is happening,enjoying our life for this
couple of hours, at least, andmaking sure that we are like,
getting like ourselves at leastas much as we can to normality
(12:08):
before going back to the streetand see the miserable thing that
is happening. So yes, I wouldsay it did help us a lot. As
musicians, I would say it's alsohelped us a lot for people who
were still able to attend, orlisten to music, because music
is just like it's a healer, inlike in a for many reasons, for
(12:32):
many reasons, especially in thesituation that we had back in
Syria, a couple years back.
Yeah. And I wonder too, just toadd in context for listeners,
that you know, will have seennews stories, no doubt, but to
give them more context on themakeup of the orchestra of
(12:53):
Syrian musicians. There areexamples that are quotes of
those experiences in Syria, buthow music has helped. So one of
the singers said music thesedays is like a painkiller. She
describes regularly bravingbombs and snipers on the roads
(13:14):
on her two hour journey toDamascus to study and perform.
But she says you have to takethe risk when I sing it
hypnotizes me, I leave reality.And other musicians, these are
all from the orchestra havetalked about kidnappings being
hit by shrapnel losing familymembers, and also the demands of
(13:37):
living as a refugee missingfamily, friends your previous
life. And their emphasis is thefact that we're more than just
being a person that being humanis about connections and musical
connections, to help them not to gocrazy. And I thought these were
really powerful examples just toadd in some context. And I
(14:02):
wondered how that resonated withyou when you hear those real
life examples and in relation toyour own experience.
Yeah, so like you are sayingit's a real life examples. And I
experienced them myself as well.I would add one thing. So as a
human being, you can't livewithout food and water. And you
(14:25):
will like whatever is happeningoutside you will always go out
to get them in because you won'tbe able to live without that. So
imagine that you know there is adanger happening in danger, like
the danger of things happeningoutside and you are still going
outside to performing music soyou can't turn now how much
music is important for you thatyou can't live without your
(14:47):
music and you're risking yourlife just to get to the place to
perform music and you're stilldoing that. We're like in the
time that you can still do it athome at some point but because
you want to share your musicwith your colleagues with others
and do the things that you usedto do enjoy the music experience
you're feeling through yourinstruments. And you are staying
(15:09):
doing that. Regardless all thetrouble that is happening
outside the door. I know thepeople that you already
mentioned, I know them by namesI know how to refine for them
was to get to the place where weused to do our rehearsals. But
by the time that we gathered, westarted in the music, I can tell
you like all the fields that wehad inside during our way to get
(15:30):
to place it just gone. It's justlike vanish. Once we get our
music up and running, I can'ttell you we are completely in a
different world completely in adifferent world. It's It's really
sad to say what what washappening. But we we knew at the
time when we were rehearsing weknow that in couple of days,
(15:52):
there is a show happening, or anevent happening in the throes of
Damascus opera. And when we knowthat, at the box, like the box
tickets, lots of tickets hasbeen already sold. We know that
there is people coming liketaking the risk to come to
attend us. So it would be a bigshame for us not to be on stage.
(16:15):
Because people they need this.You said like as as my colleague
said it's a painkiller. It'sdefinitely a painkiller. It's
it's, it's, it's a healer, as Isaid at the beginning of this
interview. So once you know thatsomeone, it's like when, when there
is a patient is going to aclinic, and there's a physician,
(16:36):
that clinic will be prescribingmedication for you. So you can't
be presenting in your clinic.And you know that there is a
patient over there waiting foryou. And for us, we are the
healer, for the patients who wascoming to attend a concert. So
we treat our audience at thattime that they are in, they need
(16:58):
us. And at the same time we needthem we needed someone to see
that we have something that wewanted to deliver because it's
like it's a link between theaudience and the performer at the
same time. So it's I would sayit's like, it's, it's a
combination of both, to behonest, it's a combination of
(17:20):
both. So yeah, we all did ourtests, we risked our life at some
point, but it was worth it. And we all like we felt that we couldn't
survive mentally to now, withoutbeing able to afford our music
on a regular basis.
I find it fascinating andthere's I'm sure you know more
(17:43):
scientific study in therelationship of arts and well
being. And when you start toreally examine what is that
power? Or what is that magic, inrelation to this example of
music, it's interesting that previous guests have also talked
(18:04):
about the hypnotic power ofrhythm in music and in dance and
how that's helped transportthem. Do you think that that is
literally like a neurologicalprocess through the power of
music that it transports youaway from fear or threats? And
(18:24):
and that is somehow the magic ofmusic?
I will say yes, sometimes likeso, so I could tell you whenever
you are listening to a music, soyou would like as like a Western
person listening maybe to anArabic music and especially like
an Arabic song, you may notunderstand what what we are
(18:45):
singing. So you either don'tunderstand the language and vice
versa. For example, if I'mlistening to like, a French song
because I don't speak French orlike a Spanish song, I don't
know understand. But sometimesyou just like while you are
listening you feel that there's tears in your eyes, or like you have
some goosebumps. And you willnever know why. But because the
(19:05):
rhythm or the melody of themusic, it's just like, like,
take you somewhere it's likewhen you are listening and then
you just don't realize that Ipassed like 10 minutes or I'd
already travel by time or youremember something that you
think about it. And you willnever think why I'm thinking
about that it just because ofthe music because it's just take
(19:27):
you somewhere they will neverever imagine that will just like
like lets things inside you justmoves. You know? And just like
let you think, Oh, I'm reallyI'm really in a in a different
world. Last time I was like Ithink I was attending a concert
in London two weeks ago. And itwas like a part for the opera
(19:51):
for Bocelli. And the area thearea that I was listening to, I
have listened to itlike I I, I swear it's more than
100 times since like a newmusic. And I cried. I cried
again and like, my wife asked mewhy are you crying every single
time you listen to it? I said, Idon't know what that is
(20:14):
something like inside me likecausing my tears just like to
follow from on my eyes. So yeah,there is something magic with
the music that like lets thingsinto your body just like goes up
and down without like youcontrolling that.
And it does seem to me that, youknow, this really does respond
(20:36):
to the series question, Can artsave us? Tshis is a good example
of how the arts can help us howthe arts can save us from
perhaps mental distress and fearif we understand how to embrace
the arts and in this case,music. Do you see that having a
(20:58):
more and more important role?And even for example, a Syria
rebuilds? Do you think it willhave a larger part to play that
maybe was once understood therole of arts and culture as a
place is rebuilt?
(21:20):
Can you can you repeat yourquestion once more? That's okay.
Yeah, of course, I'm reallyinterested in what we're
discussing the power of, of thearts in in this example of
music. And I wondered if you sawit having more and more
importance in terms of how weembrace the arts, whether it's
(21:45):
in health recovery, or postconflict post war. So for
example, rebuilding Syria,perhaps there being even more
emphasis on the importance ofarts and culture in order to
help communities come togetheragain.
Yes, I would say yes, I willtell you one thing. So maybe I
(22:08):
wouldn't say till now, because Ifeel I think like senior people
are getting bored of liketalking about politics, but I
think sadly, saying that thislike the senior
population has been dividedbecause of like political point
of view, what's happening inSyria and this like really
caused a lot of like conflictsbetween friends between families
(22:30):
between like colleagues and itwas really hard to see like
people that they were likespending lots of time together
and then because of whathappened in Syria, they were
like having like bad like,different views and it causes
like, kind of like, disconnectssad disconnects between others.
And I could tell we face thislike, like, on a regular basis
(22:53):
between musicians but what Icould tell we are playing in an
orchestra. And once we gatheredall together, you feel that
okay, that conversation hasstopped and now we are all
surrounded by music we are alllike back on the same table
doing the same things sharingthe same joy, happiness and
(23:14):
music. And I can tell you, maybeI will be arguing with my
colleagues for a certain pointfor hours. And then Okay, it's
time for rehearsing andgathering let's play together
after three four hours ofplaying when we go back to the
same topic you will not be inthe same tension as you used to
be before that rehearsal. Soit's not because of gatherings
(23:38):
it's because of the music because wewere playing it together and you
know with playing it's not onlyabout like, looking to the music
like sheet that you are playingit's about also the eye contact
between you and the oppositeends like that playing a
different instrument. So you cantell there is like an eye
contact you speak by your byyour eyes when you go outside
(24:02):
after the rehearsal when youlike you connect again you feel
like why I did have this tensionwith you before the rehearsal or
like I did feel something reallyspecial to you while we're
playing. I felt that youunderstood me. You gave me the
power to perform better okay, ifyou go back to that time, I feel
like no we should be like alittle bit like more calm to
(24:22):
each other. We could respecteach other more we could like
get to a point that made thepoint that you agree with my
thoughts I can agree with mythoughts. If I reflect this to
the wider thing to the wholethings happening in Syria, I
could tell yes, music, art candefinitely bring people back
(24:45):
together, could definitelymake them look at things in a
bit of a better way. And it'salways like, you know, if you go
back in time, like in history, whatwe see now from like a like from
Asian people like fromprevious, it's what they left to
us as an art or a music you willnever like talk about like any
(25:08):
like a very old generation aboutother things you always talk
like what when you feel like yousee tourists and people going
away around, they always lookabout art about like cultural
things that are left for us tolook now. So now what we are
saying, saying we don't peoplelike to, to remember the sad
story about Syria that we need toremove them to remember what had
(25:30):
Syria has to be rebuiltagain. And I believe that music
is a crucial thing. Art is acrucial thing to bring the
country back to what it used tobe 10 years back.
Yeah, I mean, Syria is famous,isn't it as a one of the most
ancient civilizations that wasalways arts rich. So it would
(25:54):
seem a natural relationship,wouldn't it to return to the
arts? Absolutely. Would you saythat when you perhaps feel
disconnected or just homesickfor example, because of course,
we're talking in the UK today, ismusic, the thing that instantly
(26:17):
reconnects you to your home toDamascus?
I will tell you a funny thing.So I came to UK in 2017 to do my
PhD in here in the UK. So I came to do my PhD in pharmacy
degree. So I am holding apharmacy degree aside of my
music degree. So when I gotI got my placement here in the
(26:41):
UK, before me checking whatthings I will be having as like
labs and stuff I was saying atthe university, do they have any
music school? Do they have anyorchestral things? So the first
things ever that I wanted tohave here things that will link
(27:04):
me again to music, I don't wantto be coming to the UK spending
a lot of time during my PhD formy pharmacy and then just losing
my music or playing myviolin, I know that we'll be
able to play it at home but Iwanted to be like connecting
with others through the music.So it was the most important
(27:26):
thing that I was hoping to haveit and luckily enough, I was
fortunate to know that the thePortsmouth University where I
did my PhD, they used to have anorchestra, which I like, the
first day I came next day I wentto the university, I said, Okay,
I need to do something myself at the music, like a
(27:47):
group within the the universityand then be a member of the
orchestra. So yes, it definitelyreminds me to like, to my time
in Damascus, I spent in like inSyria more than 10 years playing
with the senior nationalsecurity guests orchestra, for the
Syrian office of Arabic music. So I couldn't tolerate being out or
(28:12):
like away from orchestra. It'sIt's it's sad that I do still
miss playing with my colleaguesover there. But at least playing
now here, it's it's alwaysgiving me that opportunity to
bring all the nice, lovelymemory that I used to have back
(28:33):
home with my colleagues inDamascus.
And Tarek, what are the soundsof home, which may be additional
to musical sounds? What are thesounds of home, that your
fondest of?
Family friends, like street, theneighborhood. But I'm not saying
(28:57):
this because of the purpose ofthis interview. But I could tell
because the majority of timethat I spent after me graduating
from my university and School ofMusic, it was sadly the time
that we spent it during the war.And at that time we'd like
(29:18):
during the war, we were likealso spending a lot of time in
the Damascus opera house whilewe are like doing our
rehearsals, and I can tell youthat we were sometimes like
sheltering in there when we hadlike a lot of bombs happening in
Damascus because of the war. Sowe used to spend lots of lots of
(29:39):
time over there. So it was a badopportunity to do that but at
the same time, it's like it gaveus an opportunity to do a lot of
music at the same time evenwithout doing like an like a
proper show. It gave us a lot oftime to just to practice. So we
used to spend 5,6, 7 hours a dayover there. So I felt that the
(30:04):
Damascus opera house at sometime became my home. I used to
see my friends over there morethan what they used to see my
family, my parents. So you feelnow like when I remember, I
always start to remember what weused to do inside rather than
what what was happening outside.So for me home, Syria is an
amazing country is like a reallynice country, lovely country,
(30:27):
the senior population is one ofthe most friendliest, like
humble people. You will, likeever see. We had bad things
happening in the country and theconflict over them. But
whenever I remember, see, Iremember the like the lovely
country, lovely people, thelovely music we used to
(30:47):
have, and we are hoping thiswill come back to normal very
soon.
How do you cope with the tragedythat has happened? I imagine
the conflict has asked people tobe so courageous in so many
different ways, and particularlywhen people have been displaced,
(31:12):
and on such a massive scale, Imean, it's one of the massive
displacements of around 7million people at least, as well
as internal displacement. It'son such a vast scale of tragedy
when you're describing a placethat are was so friendly and kind
(31:32):
and happy connections andrelationships. What's your
relationship been with couragein terms of being able to cope
with all of this?
So the conflict Syria started2011. And I left the country
early 2017. So I spent more thanfive, almost six years over
(31:54):
there, why the conflicts happen.So personally, I wasn't willing
to leave the country, I waswilling to stay, it was really,
really hard to leave yourfamily, especially your parents
who are like, old enough, thatyou travel, and then you can
feel like kind of guilty,leaving them this bad situation.
(32:16):
But as a parent, they alwayslike try to find the best.
Like they said, like, kidslike, Sons Daughters
saying, like, go now. Try tofind your future. And when the
country is, like back to normal,you can't come back. So it
wasn't an easy decision for me.And I could tell if I didn't
(32:39):
find my opportunity to get likea higher degree, and then come
back later in the future to helpin rebuilding my country, I
wouldn't do that. So I wouldstay and I stayed for five, six
years, I would say the five, sixyears that I spent in the
country, it was one of the worsttime during the war. So now the
situation here is not thatgreat, but at least in terms of
(33:00):
the life of bombing and stuff,it's it's much better, but the
quality of life nowadays notthat great in terms of the
sanctions that we have unlimitedof resources. But thinking about
other people, like a lot ofpeople had to flee the country
because they were in fear ofbeing kidnapped or like sadly
enough, they lost their houses,they lost their home, they
(33:23):
wanted to find another place tobe sheltering to be like living.
So yes, like you. Sometimes youwere forced to do that.
Sometimes, because we werelooking for a better future.
Sometimes you feel like you hadto do it. Personally, I had the
courage to do it. But I couldtell that I have been pushed
(33:45):
by my parents or my friends.Just go now you have a great
opportunity, you can get a lotof things you can bring it back
to to us, help us likerebuilding the country. I'm
hoping lots of others have thesame way of thinking for the
future for the country as well.
Absolutely. So perhaps musicalso, part of the magic of
(34:12):
music, if you like is the factthat it also helps build
resilience. So we were talkingabout you know, the magic of
music in terms of connections orlanguage even or peacekeeping,
you know, calming tensions down.Do you think that it also offers
something in terms ofresilience, you know, that helps
(34:33):
people feel braver and more ableto face their circumstances?
I would say yes, so like, Iremember lots of people like
attending our concert tonightduring that, the war, they
were saying, You know what, Iwas completely depressed. I was
(34:55):
super depressed before cominginto the concert. I felt like
there is no hope at all. I feltlike I don't have any like
energy to go to more, towardsface all these issues during the
my way towards checkpoints andthe risk of being like shot
or like kidnapped or whatever.But after the concert today, I
feel like you you just like, getmy heart pumping again, you
(35:20):
let me feel like I like Ineed to get like more courage to
do my work again, enjoy my day.I know this is a bad war but
this is temporary things that islight at the end of this tunnel.
And I'm sure they like you willbe like there is something good
happening. Maybe not tomorrow,maybe not, like next week, but
(35:42):
at the end of the day, it willit will be happening. So I would
say yes, music is is somethingthat gives you I would say the
hope get a better future. AndI'm sure that lots of us are
sharing this, this this thissame things as me.
(36:03):
And I would mention to listenersnow that if not already, if they
haven't listened to theOrchestra of Syria Musicians,
yeah, make it a priority jumponto YouTube, at the very least,
because that description ofsoaring vocals and genius
musicianship is absolutely true.It is so incredibly uplifting,
(36:29):
but the complexity of the soundsand the music, it's very
otherworldly. And you know,you're all beautifully in time
and in tune with each other andyet it seems so incredibly
complex at the same time.
It does you know what you saidsomething about Syria at the
beginning, so Syria, if you lookto the location of Syria on the
(36:52):
on the map, it's in the it'slike when we say in the Middle
East it's like it's in the middleof like of the Middle East. So
like we have been influenced bylots of nations lots of like,
because like we like throughoutthroughout the time, like we are
at the middle of the linkbetween the West and the East.
(37:12):
So these influence our culturedefinitely and mainly our music
so our music is mixed betweenthe East and the West. So that's
why like you said the wordcomplex is definitely complex,
but the way of complexcomplexity is something really
interesting very enjoyable. AndI can tell you that our last or
(37:33):
latest show that we had inBrighton Festival so I was so
happy when we came to dorehearsing I was like chatting
with the organizers so I saidhow are the tickets like going?
They said so the venue can likeoccupy 1500 like audience so I
(37:57):
said and what is it now they saidso far you are doing the best so
it's like we thought 1200 and thereis still two days to go and when we
went on the stage on the day ofthe show it was like completely
full I am honestly sayingcompletely full and when I
looked I looked like all thepeople that were attending
(38:18):
you can say they are not onlyArabs they were like all mix
like between like Arabs and nonArabs I would say Arabs because
I know that they love they knowour music they know like what we
are singing because cinema musicis like well known within the
Arab countries. But when you seethere is lots of foreigners
attending and then the amount ofhow they interact with us
(38:40):
you can tell ourmusic is like like it's touching
their hearts so it's like it'sengaging everyone is not only a
certain part of the world if ifI can say that?
And you must find thatincredibly uplifting because do
you think it is just a huge andwonderful statement of humanity
that all these different peoplecome together through this
(39:03):
music?
Absolutely. I think music islike it's a language it's a
language of peace. It'ssomething that we as Orchestra
of Syrian Mmusicians we arelike really working hard to
deliver this to everyone. Likeit's hard it's really sad to
(39:24):
know whenever you say to someonethe word Syria they will always
link it to the war they willalways link it to like death
they will always link it toconflict crisis and stuff. I
know this is this this is thisis like a nature things to
happen when a war is like ishappening but what we want to
let people know no it's not thisabout Syria is full of talented
(39:46):
people is full of like it'sreally rich. In its culture with
the music was like lost lots ofthings. And now this is our duty
to deliver our music and likelet people know the the real
story behind the lovely Syria.
It feels like your concerts areresurrections. You literally
(40:09):
bring back everything back tolife.
We do. We do. We do. And I thinklike every single music player
will agree with that music is isa resurrection things are
different.
I'm talking of, you know, richcultural histories and the rich
culture you all share. It'sfascinating, of course that
(40:34):
along came Damon Albarn. Yeah,yeah. And things changed again.
Would you like to share some ofthat story for the listeners who
may not know about thatrelationship?
Oh, yeah. So yeah. So I thinkpeople will be like really
interested to know about theOrchestra of Syrian Musicians
how this orchestra was born. Sowe all studied, or we all
(41:01):
studied at this higher Institutefor Music in Damascus. And the
majority of us were playing inthe Syrian National Symphony
Orchestra. Once this thewar started in Syria, lots of
the musicians used to flee thecountry. And they were relocated
all over the all over the world.Before the war started, Damon
(41:21):
Albarn with Gorillaz came toSyria. And we had a recording
with him in in Syria. So this iswas this was the first project
that we had with him at thattime. And then some musicians
went with him in a tour aroundthe world at that time to like
for the album that they produced.In 2016 Africa Express came
(41:45):
with this brilliant idea toreunite the musicians, Syrian
musicians, who fled the countrywith the musicians who remained
with the country. And they did,I would say, a really big favor
for all of us to gather us allonce again. And we form at that
time the Orchestra of SyrianMusicians. So it's formed or
(42:09):
consists of as Syrianmusicians, outside Syria, and
inside Syria, we gathered in2016, Amsterdam we did like a
couple of rehearsals over timeover that time, and then we did
like a tour in Europe. And weperformed two or three songs
with Damon Albarn. So it wasanother opportunity to be with
(42:30):
him again. It was a reallyamazing time with him, and we
performed with him inGlastonbury festival. And since
then, we have this Orchestra ofSyrian Musicians and we gather
from time to time, once we havelike got a funding or like
invite from festivals, and weare hoping like to expand more
(42:54):
and more to get like more peopleto be playing with us or even
guests to be playing with us.And because of COVID, we didn't
have the chance to do anythingin the last two years, which
like affected everyone. But oncethe Brighton Festival invited us
to perform over there, we werelike really happy that we'd be
back on stage. And like having afull venue. It was an amazing
(43:19):
things, and amazing.
And it just seems reallywonderful that by having these
collaborations and and thatexample of the work you did with
Damon Albarn introducing you toall sorts of new audiences and
new audiences equallydiscovering all of these new
musical traditions orinfluences. It's another
(43:41):
example, isn't it of thehumanity of music? And perhaps,
how music functions as alanguage?
Yeah, absolutely. And I thinkbecause when Damon came the
first time to Syria, and then Iwould say if he didn't believe
(44:03):
in us, he didn't likereally like our music and if our
music and his album at that time then like really touched a lot
of audience all around theworld, and I can remember that
my friend went with him in histour in Europe, Australia. And
they told us like, because atthat time, he had some Arabic
instrument with his band. So Ithink he had an ney which is
(44:27):
like a kind of an Arabic flute,and also some strings playing
with him but playing an Arabicmusic mixed with his music, and
they could, they told us atthat time it was a really new
and interesting things foreveryone or there is something
that we were not aware aboutthat we have exposed to
(44:49):
something that is really new,but it has been hidden
somewhere. And I think Damongave us the chance to explore
our music and now, back here2022 now we are sharing this
music was a bigger audience, andwe got a chance to like to
explore it in the UK hoping tolike more all over the world, I
(45:10):
think now we are like in areally great position. And
people are getting to know usmore and more by time.
And it always seems socelebrating when you see,
you know, clips of you allperforming as an orchestra, and
that wonderful combination ofinstruments and traditions and
(45:31):
whether it's happilycomplex, because it's so rich,
it seems very celebratory,does it feel celebratory when
you all perform together?
It does and like, you willnever ever attend a music
concert for us without seeing usall smiling, like like without
(45:51):
noticing. We just like smile,you start playing music and your
smile would be just like thrownon your face straightaway. Our
music is like full of singingfull of joy, full of like
happiness. So it it just it justmake you happy. Just make you
happy.
And you've described theorchestra as a family. It does.
(46:12):
Yeah. Would you like to talkabout that a little because, of
course, you're a group of peoplethat have experienced terrible
things through through the war,displacement, and yet united by
music. And it was interestingwhen you said earlier how music
can also dampen down tensions.How does it how does it feel as
(46:39):
a family?
Like, you know, like, as much asyou grow up in time, you will
always feel that you miss yourbrother, you miss your sister,
you miss you like parents wholike kids. And I said we used to
spend a lot of time and some ofus left the country at 2011. And
some of them left later. Butwhen we reunited a decade later
(47:03):
2016, I reunited with somepeople that I haven't met them
for five years, six years. Sowhen I met them the first time
especially I met them outside mycountry. So I am like, you know,
I have been displaced so youfeel like you you really need to
go back to someone that hereminds you to home. So when I'm
(47:24):
like and now here after two yearsof Covid I'm for example I'm
living in Swansea, my otherfriend is living in London other
is living like in Scotland. Andwhen we gathered again, ahh
I can smell the home again, Ican't feel home again. Like when
I speak in my Arabic languagewith him. I feel like ah, I like
(47:46):
the conversation that we arehaving. I feel you know what, I
feel that we are back inDamascus talking not in London
talking not in UK talking. So,family is not about only being
with your family member, it'salso being with your family
member at home. And wheneverlike we gathered, especially
last time in Brighton we were like20 People like performing
(48:08):
and all like coming again, onceagain. I told them you know what
I feel I'm in Damascus OperaHouse now playing and I
feel that we are you gonna goout going to like X & Y Street
that we used to do hang out orlike do something together
outside. But come back toreality. We're in the UK and
Brighton, which we'd like we'rehappy with that. But again, it
(48:32):
takes you somewhere else thatyou feel that this is the place
that you would always love to bein.
So what you're describing isreally powerful bonds that music
is also bonding you together asas a family as an orchestra. Do
you feel that? The emotionalconnections are stronger than
(48:56):
ever?
Definitely. Yes. Yeah.
So from that point of view, canyou imagine your life if you
weren't a musician?
No, no, it's impossible. It'simpossible. I I really don't
(49:18):
know because it's impossible.I'll tell you why. I as I said,
at the beginning, I started mymusic at very early time of my
life. And I felt that I grew upwith music being around. So it's
not it's not a thing that like II got, what it was like 15, 20
years back, like, what 15 yearsor something that I know how I
(49:41):
used to be before and after.After that I grew up. And music
was a crucial part of my life, acrucial part in my family. I
have a sister and brother mybrother, he is a cello player
and my sister she's a pianist aswell. So like we like I grew up,
(50:02):
and I know there is alwayssomeone playing music in the
house. So I can't imagine myselfwithout being a musician.
Today it to me, it would justseem that you literally wouldn't
be alive, you just wouldn't havea heartbeat.
No, no, it's my second heart, Ihave one heart on the left, that
(50:27):
is on another heart on the onthe right. I can tell my left
one is keeping me physicallyalive. But the one that is
keeping me mentally alive.
Can I put something to you,which was really shocking to
read, it was news published thismonth by the UN, the United
(50:50):
Nations Refugee Agency. And theysaid that the global number of
forcibly displaced people haspassed 100 million for the first
time, through conflict andviolence. And it's it's just so
overwhelming to think of, of theworld in that state. And I know
(51:14):
that you have that very clearmessage as an orchestra in terms
of sharing the language ofpeace. And so when I read that
awful statistic, I wondered whatyour hopes are for the orchestra
in terms of being able to spreadthat language of peace?
(51:37):
It's a really good question. Soin order to be able to like to
deliver the message or life toshare our thoughts about music
is the language of peace, youneed to be able to get more
chances to perform more chances,like more events, to explore
(51:59):
what you want to watch you areperforming. So I think things
that the orchestra has beenperformed, we had a lot of
chances to be playing in eventshere in the UK or in Europe. But
what I would really hope that weget more fundings more
opportunities, and moreawareness about or case officer
(52:25):
named musicians, then ourmessage will be delivered
widely. We, we get more peopleto play with us. And we are
hoping to get this in the nearfuture as well. So to get the
story, the long story short, weare hoping to get more fundings
be more recognized, be able liketo play here and there. And I'm
(52:49):
by that, I would say that wecould really deliver our message
that the Syrian Music is alanguage of peace.
And would you also say a way ofunderstanding the language of
peace is because it doesn't relyon any one particular language
(53:13):
that music or that music,what I'm really trying to ask is
how you explain the language ofpeace? Is it because the music
means that nobody has to rely onany one particular language is
(53:34):
almost operating on a on aspiritual level if you like?
I would say it's a trading it'sa sharing language. So when you
are saying a sharing language I'msaying or sharing language, it
doesn't mean necessarily that weneed to speak the same language
in order to perform same inmusic, I could, I could speak
(53:55):
nothing and you could speaknothing but we can still play
together. So that is somethingthat can link us easily get us
to be more connected without theneed of like saying any single
word. So I think the music canbring anyone and can link anyone
without any barriers. So yes,music is is is a sharing
(54:20):
thing is a language foreveryone. And you can tell the
war can displace everyone,conflict can displace everyone,
but music can bring everyonetogether. And whenever we go to
the city, when you see likepeople gathering, you always
assume that it's like kind oflike someone's singing someone
is playing or like a band issinging or some like a band is
(54:43):
performing. So it's always areason for a peaceful gathering.
Whereas when you see like peopleare just like, running away or
like scared or something isalways the opposite side of the
thing.
And it's seems improvisation isreally interesting when earlier
(55:04):
in the interview, you weresaying it's similar to some of
the jazz traditions, you know,where improvisation is part of
how you play. And so that'sunexpected. It's a dialogue that
is created there and then onthe spot, how would you how
would you describe that processor how you read each other when
(55:26):
you improvise?
I'd say something that can't beeasily explained, but as I said,
and a part of the Arabic inmusic, especially for these
Arabic instruments, like oud,like ney, and even these kinds
of percussion, this instrumenthas been created as an
(55:46):
improvising instruments. Andwhenever they are performing in
a bigger orchestra in a band,there is always room for them to
improve or improvise. But youcan tell whenever there is like,
it's kinda I say, there's a kindof dialogue, they, and is trying
to play you the other will replyto it. And without like, it's
(56:07):
like, there's too like me andyou now we're having this kind
of like a twoways of conversation. People who
attend our attends our, our, ourconcert, and there is like
a like piece forimprovising, they will all be
like super happy, super, likereally interested about oh,
what's going on on the face, youcan tell that this instrument is
(56:29):
playing now the other is goingto be replying. And it's a way
of communication. It's a way oflike interacting between both of
them. So yes, I would reallyencourage people to come to our
next show, and see how theseArabic instruments are
improvising, because it's gonnabe something unique that you
have never ever experiencedbefore. Oh, absolutely.
(56:50):
I couldn't agree more. And Ithink it invites a lovely
openness or curiosity, becauseof all the lovely things that
are going on, it makes you wantto know more or hear more or
become part of it. It's it'sincredibly unifying, both for
you as musicians as anorchestra, but also for the
audience. I think it unifiesliterally everybody. Is that how
(57:13):
it feels when you perform?
Yeah, it does, it does. And Ican tell, I can remember
something like, funny happenedin our last show in the
Brighton. So I was sitting witha guy who was responsible for
the lightning for the event. SoI told him just after the break,
we have like a specific piecethat we'll be playing, it's
(57:35):
going to be like, just forimprovising. So we have five
instruments who be improvising.So we have the oud we have the
ney, we have the qanun, aswell. And we have the percussion
and we have the keyboardimprovising. So I said maybe in
that piece, you can get thelight a little bit down, and
just like have a spot on everysingle prayer player. And
because there'll be like,improvising in order. So it
(57:58):
would be really nice to have aspot on each player improvising.
So I said, I can tell you whichone will be improvising. So you
can fade the light in and out onthe specific player. And I said,
Do you need like a piece ofpaper to write down which will
go first? And second? Becausethat would be like switching? He
(58:19):
said, No, I can tell, I canfeel it. I can see it before
it's happening. So. So this is areally simple example, how
audiences can really have thefeeling just because they are
seeing what's happening on thestage. So they can like kind of
predict what's happening beforeit's really happening. Because
(58:40):
this kind of improvising is justengaged the audience by time
with the music that's happeningon stage and this will
definitely reflect positively onthe performance, performance,
the performance himself.
Tarek is just such a fascinatingdescription. I can't thank you
enough for your time today. AndI also can't thank you enough
(59:03):
for pouring so much beautifulmusic back into the world and
with that very important purposeof spreading the message of
peace. You all do it joyously,beautifully, courageously,
generously. I just hopeeverybody can come and encounter
(59:23):
the orchestra as soon as theycan. Thank you so much for your
time today Tarek.
Thank you so much for having mehere today. I was really happy
to share my feelings and also toshare everything on behalf of
the Orchestra of SyrianMusicians that they would say, at
least what I have already saidand maybe more.
Really appreciate it. Thank you,Tarek. Thank you Paula.
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