April 22, 2024 • 50 mins
Join guest Katie Rössler and I as we explore the topic of hidden grief and how that can impact our sense of vitality... and even lead to burnout. So many of us unconsciously carry around unprocessed and unintegrated grief. Get to know what hidden grief is about and how to heal what's under the surface for you.
A few key takeaways:
- Addressing and healing hidden grief is essential for enhancing vitality.
- Deep listening and authentic expression are key in the healing process.
- Purpose work can contribute to increased vitality and healing hidden grief.
- Community support and creating safe spaces for grief conversations are crucial.
Check out the Vitality series Spotify playlist, a compilation of songs each guest on the series contributes. Here is the song Katie added.
Thanks so much for tuning in. Please do like, follow, share, and all that good social media support to get this out to more of my people. Cheers, bless, and all the best!
Have we met yet? Hi, I’m Vanessa Smith, Energy Guide & Teacher, Spiritual Mentor & Messenger, and Founder of New Earth Collab. I am here to spread some contagious enthusiasm around the paradigm shift, how to navigate the energy of it, own your purpose role within it, and optimize your vitality along the way. You really are here for a reason at this time on the planet, have a unique role to play in this transformational time, and there is a higher purpose for your energy sensitivity. Utilize this gift! Here’s how: Be an Energy Guide You are being called to step into your energy gifts. Clean Up Your Energy 51 energy tools, daily energy routine, and more! Your Energy Story If you want to change, you’ve got to change the energy. New Earth Collab For transformational businesses here to shift the paradigm. Do connect on the socials! YouTube, LinkedIn, InstagramMark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
That's exactly what we hit is where the, where's the unresolved mental and emotional
baggage that is you're holding onto that's causing grief that is leading you to do, be, say,
you know, things that keep you in a stress mindset that keep you in overwhelm
and lead you to burnout for me figuring out how to talk to people about what
(00:23):
they were experiencing in a way that That helps them feel calmer about the darkness
that they might be experiencing.
And, you know, I love the analogy of a cocoon. And so when I talk about a cocoon,
people are like, oh, warm and cozy and you're in your cocoon.
But also cocoon is grief.
It is allowing that space, allowing a little bit of solitude and time to heal,
(00:47):
to integrate, to become anew.
That was Katie Rossler, our guest today for the Vitality Series on Check the Energy podcast.
And in this episode, we explore the concept of hidden grief and how it impacts
our health and vitality.
So many of us are walking around with unprocessed, unintegrated grief,
(01:12):
not even realizing how much it's influencing every area of our lives,
including when we hit a state of burnout.
Today, we get to go deeper into what hitting grief is all about and how to effectively
(01:32):
heal it, not just on your own, but within community.
So grateful Katie joined me today for this conversation.
If you'd love to learn more about her, simply go to katierossler.com.
And as always, you can find me at vasmith.com. With that, let's get started. Enjoy.
(01:52):
Welcome, welcome to Check the Energy podcast and the Vitality series,
which is hosted on YouTube.
Today, I'm really pleased, happy, joyful, excited to be talking with Katie Rossler,
who I will share a little bit of how we're connected.
But of course, for those of you that don't know me, I'm Vanessa Smith and I
(02:14):
love to talk about energy and the paradigm shift in your purpose role within it all.
And so today we're gonna be exploring the topic of hidden grief and how that
relates to and impacts our vitality.
I've, through my own journey that I'll be sharing today, I've been able to share with you.
In addition to like really exploring with Katie and her specific background,
(02:38):
how hitting grief showed up for me and deeply, deeply influenced my vitality
this year in particular.
So I'm, yeah, I'm just very looking forward to this conversation.
And as always, I want to give a little bit of story or context to how I know
Katie, because to me, that's like, that's the juice, right? Right.
(02:59):
It's it's always interesting to hear the bio and the training and the gifts
that people have. And I love that, too.
I'm like, how do you know each other? Like, how did that all come together?
And so I'll share a little bit and then I'm going to turn it over to Katie and
have her introduce herself in whatever way she sees fit.
(03:20):
And then we'll go from there. So the story, the story of how Katie and I met
is is actually in an online business.
Group. And we, I remember at the time, this was, was it 2018?
Yep. Holy cow, where? Right?
(03:40):
Prime moves in very strange ways. So in 2018, I feel like I've been about 500
different versions of myself since then.
Yeah. Right. Like who hasn't?
And so I remember that I had volunteered to kind of lead some meetups in the
group and you were on one of them.
(04:00):
And I remember, I distinctly remember that when Katie spoke.
I was like, she has got to be a speaker because I didn't want to actually speak,
even though I was the facilitator of the meeting and needed to keep talking
and inviting other people to share.
I just remember thinking, please keep talking because you are so interesting
(04:21):
and I love your voice. And this is fascinating.
Can we just have a conversation with the two of us? So that was my first impression of Katie.
And honestly, it hasn't changed very much.
Like whenever you see her online, you're like, wow, that is so fascinating,
especially if you're interested in psychology and really creating balance in your life.
(04:47):
And, you know, I want to say creating healthy relationships,
like within within your family, within your marriage, and then of course,
the topic hitting grief.
So I had the pleasure of being a mentor of Katie's for a couple of years,
worked with her as my client and seeing that transformation take place and then
having her business really bloom and continue to grow.
(05:11):
And I mean, it's just, it's phenomenal when you actually create relationships
with people to see the changes that take place in them over time.
It's really cool. So with all All that being said, really happy to have Katie here.
And with that, I'm going to turn it over to you.
Please, obviously, since I didn't illuminate your background with hitting grief,
(05:31):
share a little bit about your background and just anything else you want to share about your story.
Yeah. Thank you, Vanessa. I'm excited to be on here. And I know our conversation
is going to go quite deep.
So those who are listening, you might want to grab a paper and pen because I
have a feeling some big things are going to come out.
So by profession, I'm a licensed therapist, originally from the USA.
(05:52):
I live in Munich, Germany.
And my grief journey really started started after my mom died.
Well, I say it's where it started, but it's where my awareness really came to
light about it. And she died suddenly.
And it was one of those things where Vanessa and I talked actually a couple
months after I started working with you at that point. And I said, my compass is spinning.
(06:13):
I don't have direction anymore in my life.
And all the work I'd been doing up until then, I didn't realize was a way of
always trying to save my mom mom or save people who are like my mom.
And when she was gone, it was like, well, I don't need to do that anymore.
So I went on this, it was really a year long, over a year long journey of trying
(06:38):
to understand myself in the context of life without a mom on the planet,
really understanding grief.
As a military kid growing up, I was uprooted constantly instantly.
And that had so much grief with it that I didn't realize I had not fully processed.
And so it was just this realization of like, oh, my parents divorced and this
(06:59):
and this and this, all of it had grief.
And it felt different magnitudes to the loss of a parent, but the same grief.
And that was the point where I started to realize hidden grief isn't something
we're talking about enough.
And as I started to talk more about grief, people were a little uncomfortable
uncomfortable because grief is not a fun topic for people, right?
(07:21):
Like it's like, oh God, she's talking about grief again.
I started to want to talk about stress and overwhelming burnout and.
It's caused by hidden grief. So it was very easy to talk about it in a way that
people understood and to say, you know, I'm a burnout specialist and I work also in hidden grief.
(07:43):
And as soon as someone starts to work with me, that's exactly what we hit is
where the, where's the unresolved mental and emotional baggage that is you're
holding onto that's causing grief that is leading you to do, be,
say, you know, things that keep you
in a stress mindset that keep you in overwhelm and lead you to burnout.
(08:06):
I've authored two books in the time working on a third, like I just sort of
spiraled into this beautiful way of like that compass didn't need to point north.
It could point anywhere it needed to, because there was just so many possibilities
to to go and helping people with this.
I've spoken at companies. I've spoken on stages internationally.
(08:27):
It's really grown since the time I worked with Vanessa of my story being the catalyst.
For me figuring out how to talk to people about what they were experiencing
in a way that helps them feel calmer about the darkness that they might be experiencing.
And I love the analogy of a cocoon. And so when I talk about a cocoon,
(08:51):
people are like, oh, warm and cozy, and you're in your cocoon,
but also cocoon is grief.
It is allowing that space, allowing a little bit of solitude and time to heal,
to integrate, to become a new.
And so, yeah. So one of my giftings is analogies, adding humor to everything
that I do and always smiling through a little bit.
(09:13):
And I've, I've been honored to work with so many people on their journey with
grief, with understanding their stress cycle.
And it all stemmed because I had to walk through my own fire.
And I like to think of it like bringing cold buckets of water,
not to make the fire go away for people, but to like soothe their feet as they're
walking through it. Yeah.
(09:35):
So where are you at now with your own grief?
With my own grief, you know, it was interesting. We just hit the five-year mark of my mom's death.
And a couple months prior to that, a great uncle who was kind of like a pseudo
dad when my dad left, passed away.
And I went back home and I realized there's so much grief still around living
(09:56):
abroad and finding my, my identity of who am I based on my culture?
Who am I based on my family?
Because I have changed so much. So that is something I'm still in the process
of integrating and understanding.
The grief around my mom's death is still...
(10:17):
In progress, right? When somebody dies so suddenly, it allows for a lot of things
to come to the surface around your fears about dying early, right? I'm a mom of three girls.
I don't want to leave this planet early for them, but I understand my story
is able to develop because my mom passed in the way that she did and the things
(10:40):
that were able to happen afterwards words would not have happened in that way.
So I, I get that I'm, I'm a pivotal role for them, but I'm also just a part,
just like how I've started to understand that from my own life.
So, so I would say that, that whole thing.
And as you lose someone, especially someone who created part of your identity, right?
(11:04):
There is the, who am I without them, but who do I not not want to be because of them.
That's the piece I'm in right now is an understanding of looking at a parent
from a holistic human standpoint.
What are some of the habits or ways that she was, or my dad was,
or my grandmother, my aunt, whomever, that I don't want to be?
(11:25):
And what are the good things I want to pull? And I'd say that's where I am in
my grief journey is just integration and more awareness of what's coming up.
Thank you for asking though. Most people stay away from asking,
how's your grief? But it's actually a great question to ask people.
It seems like the most obvious route to go.
(11:47):
But yeah, it can be, you know, uncomfortable to actually look at what's happening in the present moment.
And I think that is one of the key factors in even identifying grief to begin
with is is because you just have this sense that you're holding something, right?
(12:09):
Like you might not even know to name it as grief, which I think is the terminology
that you use, hidden grief.
It's so perfect because we really have a blind spot to all of these,
you know, whether you call them blocks or densities or just unresolved issues
that we're carrying around with us that impact our decision-making,
(12:31):
our clarity our confidence our our ability to be able to communicate effectively
with the people that we actually really care about you know there's all of these
different ways that you know.
Grief and fear and vitality are all just kind of underneath the surface in this
(12:52):
interconnected relationship with each other and i think it can be a really powerful
entry point to just Just how are you now, really?
You know, and I think I just actually want to commend you for being brave enough to be honest.
Because I think that is the, I want to say like the larger identity space that
(13:18):
we're all in right now is how can we be our most authentic expression in this
moment, knowing that it's always changing,
knowing that we're always growing,
like, can we create a sense of safety and security within ourselves so we can
show up and just be the truth of who we are,
(13:39):
no matter how people receive us, right?
Like, there's that fear of, holy cow, if I bring grief to the dinner party,
like, Oh, God, you invited that kid?
Like, who's gonna want to talk to me? Or like, it's just there's a certain heaviness
associated with it, right?
But like, if you can actually create space to honor it, and to allow it to be,
(14:04):
then we we can create
a lot of closeness with the
person that is witnessing or able to
receive where we actually are with deep
listening and without and I think that's what you provide for people I think
the fact that you're calling it out you're naming it you're creating this really
(14:27):
a secure container for people online and with everything that you offer up in
the world and and the way that you articulate the experience and the process of grief,
it helps it feel less scary, right? Yes.
What I want to ask you about is how is it connected to vitality?
(14:48):
Because you've mentioned burnout.
And I think that's something that we're all, like anybody in this day and age,
is familiar with what that's about.
And we're reaching, like, how do we resolve burnout?
How can we create a different experience for us in life?
But it's a different question to say, how can I create vitality?
(15:10):
Yes. And because you're looking in a different direction, not bypassing necessarily,
but it's a kind of a different set of circumstances or a different perspective to look through.
So when you're looking at like, what do you see as the connection between the
grief that we carry with us and how vital we feel in the world? Yeah.
(15:32):
So I want you to imagine that everyone is walking around with like open wounds on them, right?
Like gashes and just like raw and festering and they bump into each other and
it's like, oh, oh, oh, oh, you know, like, oh, don't touch me. Don't do that. Don't.
So vitality is not that. It is not like, oh, I'm like a walking,
(15:54):
you know, like injury constantly.
But grief work and healing is really cleaning those wounds and allowing them
to be stitched, which is painful.
And then allowing the scar to form. So giving it time, not saying not rushing it.
(16:14):
Why isn't this healed? Let me pick up the scab. No, like allowing it to heal
and having the scars there.
So you learn from those scars. Anybody who has a scar from like a sport,
you're like, Like, oh, this time in 19, da, da, da, I've had this injury.
And we like to tell about our scars, how we got them.
And so we have these emotional and mental scars, if we allow it to heal,
(16:36):
that when bumped into, if you've had a deep scar, then you know it's still a little numb.
It's still a little like uncomfortable at times, but it's nothing like what
it was when it was an open wound.
And so as people get a little bit close, you might still feel it,
but you don't run away from them. You don't flinch.
You just go like, oh, rub it on it. Okay, no, we're good. I know the coping skills to help.
(17:01):
And that is how we create vitality in our lives is to finally allow all those
wounds to close up, like clean them first, clean them, stitch them,
close them up, give the time, don't overdo it.
Like, oh, I'm going to jump back into doing this. It's like,
well, that hasn't healed.
And then be able to walk confidently with these scars where we're like,
(17:24):
like, yeah, that happened.
This is how it changed me. This is how it helped me grow.
That for me is vitality. So if we're not healing, if we're not working on the
hidden grief, vitality is an idea.
It's like a dream and we can all envision it. We can all embody the feeling of that vitality.
Anytime we want to manifest something, like for our lives, especially an internal
(17:48):
personal growth thing, that means you have to do the work.
A lot of people are like, well, I'll just wake up and it'll all be gone.
I'm like, it's not like wake up and there's money in your mailbox.
Healing and personal growth is like you still have to do it.
It's not manifesting money.
It's like I want to feel more vital in my life. Okay, then let's do this.
(18:09):
Let's walk through the fire. I've got some buckets for you to help with your
feet, but you got to go on the journey still.
And that's the piece where I think people love the idea of vitality,
love the idea of that wholeness and alignment, but it serves them to stay walking
around with the wounds. It just, it does.
(18:29):
Yeah. I really love how you give a nod to integration and the,
this, like the space for that, how how important it is because I think, well,
I've noticed that in either the holistic health world or even the spiritual approach to things,
(18:50):
there's like, you don't have to stay in the wound so long or you can make it shift so fast.
And it's almost like a thinly disguised way of bypassing and sort of addiction
or attachment to a peak moment, like, oh, you could just move right through it.
Yeah, acknowledge it, but then get right back into the game of whatever it is you want to create.
(19:15):
It's about frequency. Keep your frequency at this certain level.
And I think that can be really confusing for a lot of people that are new to
the healing process and new to to specifically healing grief in particular, because it is...
It's so dynamic. Green, right? Like it isn't, it is that wound,
(19:41):
but it's also the identity.
It's also the burnout. It's also the indecision. It's also all the things unsaid
with a person or a situation.
And as you grow and change and evolve into these different versions of yourself,
it's like you meet grief again and you respond to it a little bit differently.
(20:02):
And it's almost like we're in this continuous dancer relationship with it.
And I think that's a new concept for people to really understand that it's not about making it go away.
It's just about these different levels of conversation and space for integration
(20:24):
and just allowing for the pause, allowing for the slowness, allowing for the rest.
Really trusting your, I'm going to say not just trusting your body,
but also trusting how your own unique energy wants to move with the process of grief, right?
(20:44):
We have this idea of, well, it's grief. It's heavy.
We should be doing this or that with it. And it's like, no, you can do art with
it. You can jump on a trampoline with it.
You can, you know, you know be intimate
with your partner about it like there's all of these
different ways and it's just really a matter of your your focus
(21:05):
and your intention that's what
all of what you said just brought up in me but i actually wanted to ask you
about something specific in relation to greek to my experience that i had this
year and because i'm curious your take on it as you know you know i'm I'm immersed
in the energy perspective, right?
(21:25):
Like that's my wheelhouse.
It's how I view life and how I understand the underlying dynamics of all the things.
So this year I had some, I had a broken tooth earlier this year and I didn't
realize that it was broken, but it was really sapping my vitality,
which is like, okay, makes sense. It was broken. It was infected.
(21:49):
I didn't realize the degree. I just knew that I felt really bad physically,
like I felt very drained all the time.
And in the process of realizing it was broken,
I went up and I looked on a meridian chart of what the tooth was related to,
because one of the symptoms that I was having was a really overwhelming sense of grief.
(22:13):
And it did not feel like mine.
So it was a very odd experience for me because I was like,
this feels very strong, intense palpable it's it's draining and I also don't
feel like it I it's any of my stuff like I feel I feel.
(22:34):
Peace and I feel complete. And yet this wave of grief is washing over me.
And so to link it back to the meridian chart, that particular tooth was related
to holding grief in the body.
And so the tooth was broken and all this grief that actually wasn't mine was
leaking out of my system.
(22:56):
And I was experiencing it or kind of as if it was mine, but I knew intuitively this is not mine.
This belongs to either my lineage or the culture, or there's just all of these
other pieces of grief that I didn't realize I was holding that weren't my own.
And as soon as my tooth got fixed, it was so, I mean, honestly, it blew my mind.
(23:22):
The grief, it was just gone. Like literally right after my tooth was pulled
out of my mouth, I did not feel grief. I felt pain, but it did not feel like
physical pain, but I did not feel any grief.
And it has been since that point.
I mean, I'm feeling other things in general about like as we go through life,
(23:44):
but the intensity of that grief, you know, I'm really grateful now for the tooth
because I didn't it showed me what I was holding.
Right. Right. And so I'm just wanting your take on from an energy perspective,
how we hold on to other people's grief and how we can differentiate like what
(24:05):
really belongs to us and what doesn't.
What can we release from our system without without needing to process it because
it wasn't ours to begin with?
Right. And not internalizing it like, is there something I've missed?
Like, is this like what, you know, it's easy for us to do the mind game of like,
there must be something. Let me go through all the past, right?
(24:25):
All the starts, the one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, 10.
So gosh, I have been studying more and more epigenetics and what is passed down
to us consciously or unconsciously.
And it's really powerful.
You know, there's two sides of what you shared. We've got the science side of
inflammation in the body.
(24:45):
Impacts depression and it's like
depression is a symptom of inflammation in the body it's
like if you have a cold and the sinus infection you're like i feel down
i don't feel good and stuff it's because the depressive nature
it's not depression itself the depressive nature of i'm sad i'm down which is
what we usually attribute degree can be activated on top of that you've got
(25:07):
you knowing i have an essay i constantly have really clear energy like i'm really
good i've been doing the work. I've been clearing things. So what is this?
And knowing it's somebody else's. And when it comes to your body,
that's epigenetics all the way, right?
And that's powerful.
And I think so many people are waking up this year and last year,
(25:29):
and even going into 2024, realizing they are the missing link to the healing
process for their family lines.
They're the ones that are going
going to say no more. I'm not doing this anymore. This is unacceptable.
I'm not showing up for this and I hand it back.
And it can be really hard actually. And I'm working with a client now that releasing
(25:50):
what she's held onto that she now realizes was her grandmothers and probably great grandmothers.
She doesn't want to hand it back to them even energetically because she's like,
this is heavy. I don't, I wouldn't want to put this on anybody.
Right. And I'm like, Like, but they're not even here. Like, not even here.
You can hand it back. So there's our identity gets wrapped up into it.
But also I desire not to hurt any family members when we need to release that grief.
(26:15):
But there's a piece where we have to respect it wasn't ours to carry from the beginning.
They were already carrying it. And so when we allow it to become theirs again
and thank them for all the lessons it gave us, it's closure.
And closure creates that vitality.
And that's uncomfortable. when we're, you know, I heard someone the other day
(26:38):
say, we will pick a comfortable hell to get away from an uncomfortable heaven.
And it was like, oh, you were right. Like we will stay with what we know,
even if it's not good for us, even if it's the wrong relationship or whatever,
because it's comfortable and feel safe because of the comfort rather than vitality,
(27:01):
which feels uncomfortable because our nervous system is not used
to that and how do you sit with that yeah and
so being able to release that with your tooth is like amazing that it's like
oh that was not even mine thank goodness that it like passed that quickly yeah
yeah yeah I was really grateful and and honestly quite astonished at how quick
(27:23):
the change was because I had been throwing.
Supplements at, you know, my levels of vitality.
I had been, yeah, I had been doing the healing work.
I'm like, okay, journal, you know, like, okay, ritual, like,
oh, we're doing the thing.
We're digging in there to figure out like what this heaviness is.
(27:46):
And yeah, so to actually go go through, this is a nod also to the process,
like to go through the painful parts of whatever,
whatever it is you need to face so you can be free from it. Right.
And, and I, you know, I don't, okay, let's see. What is my question?
(28:09):
While you think, I'm going to point out, you kept using the word,
it's draining me. It was draining me. It was draining, draining, draining, draining.
That for me would be like, where in your family line did someone experience
either like a physical drain?
It's something occurred because you are already speaking the genetic line of where the trauma is.
(28:29):
Right. And so you asked like, well, how does somebody be aware of it?
If it's the words, the vocabulary that feels like, wow, I keep bringing this
up and it it doesn't always feel like my words yeah i'm feeling this and it doesn't feel like mine,
that's the time to go like let me go inward and go genetically like where's
that family line where does that make sense so i didn't mean to interrupt your
(28:51):
question but i was like oh let me know at this one thing yeah yeah yeah no i
think the language is it's an easy in that we often and overlook too.
And in my mind, I think, oh, right. Perfect.
Where do I need to seal up any drains, any leak?
And then also just as an examination, whether it's, you know,
(29:14):
reflecting on the family members I did know,
or doing just a more intuitive check-in of like who was allowing allowing drains
in their own life and in what way.
Right. And, you know, it's interesting when you're talking about handing it back to them.
I'm like, do we need to do that? I mean, so here's the here's my question.
(29:37):
Like when we're talking about like resolving grief and vitality,
if we're going on the premise that we're coming in here to to transform and
alchemize the lineage, lineage, whatever the family line is and what we've been
carrying, and it stops with us.
Instead of handing back, what can we work with our ancestors,
(29:58):
whether they're alive or not, but just energetically, intuitively,
and say, hey, here's what I discovered.
And have that sort of internal, creative, imaginative, intuitive conversation
with them and say, how did this show up in your life?
And let's hear.
(30:19):
I'm going to take mine off of me, what I discovered. You take yours off of you.
Let's put it just in the center out in front of us and bury it in the earth
or give it up to, you know, God or the universe or however you experience that.
But I feel like somehow that speaks to or feels more potent to me than passing it back.
(30:47):
I can imagine that they're like, I don't want this, you know.
And so, I mean, I love the idea of releasing what is not yours.
Absolutely. But I'm like, how can we, how can we liberate the,
not just ourselves, but the entire line?
There's, I mean, that's as well, you know, they have a choice point.
(31:09):
They have a choice point as to whether they accept what we pass back to them.
Right. But if we can work together, And I'm just at this moment a little personally
obsessed with that idea of togetherness.
Like, how can we work together as a collective or as a community or as a partnership to work?
(31:32):
To address, to become aware of, and to heal hidden grief so we can experience
vitality as a collective?
How can we have each other's backs in that way?
What is the new paradigm approach to having those hard conversations, right?
(31:54):
I feel like we have a very one-track mind
when it's when it's comes to healing
grief or addressing hitting grief because it
it's like it's heavy here's the one way to
do it and good luck like see you on the other side right cry it out yeah it
feels like isolating you know what i mean yeah totally and it's a very vulnerable
(32:15):
experience to even identify where you're carrying grief and so i'm just like
what do we do katie do Do we have grief circles?
Do we have, how do we bring it into a collective conversation where we're experiencing
the transformation together and we create like a safety of container for the community,
(32:38):
especially when there's some really crappy things going on in the broader context
that is bringing up a lot of grief for people, right?
It's like, I don't know, I popped off in a million different directions.
That's okay. I'm going to try to cover it all.
First was, I do love the idea, you and the family member or the lineage together.
(33:02):
Putting it all together in one and then releasing that. I think that's an excellent
idea because we were all born on this earth and the way the world is created is there's a blame.
And there is a, like, if you're holding something, it's yours.
That's for your mind to go. I'm now releasing this.
So as long as even in that energetic exchange through a meditation,
(33:23):
you're like, I'm removing this from me and you're removing it from you too.
So it's no longer going up and down on our family lines and we're bearing it
we're you know whatever it might be going into fire into the flames yes absolutely
but for many it is that i need to like i need to give it back to them,
because especially if they passed on it's nothing to them it is not you know
(33:47):
it's like oh yeah you're right that was like when i was on earth that's what
i was doing like give that back it's It's like now it doesn't bother me. Whatever.
Yeah. But we still think earthfully like I'm giving that back to them.
They don't want it kind of thing. It's like, no.
And you can, I do. I love that idea of coming together and joining together,
putting it in one place. I think that's a beautiful, beautiful way. And I agree.
(34:10):
And I really think 2024 is about, as you've seen, the way I'm talking about
things is more about couples and families.
And I think it is about community and it is about relationships.
So how do we come together? together and normalize grieving,
normalize difficult conversations.
And a couple of years ago, I had wanted to start sacred grieving ceremonies
(34:32):
and it was just not the right time.
I was still getting people to look at hidden grief.
Nobody died. Yes, of course, but there can still be grief.
There's a change. You moved, you became a parent, you got a divorce.
All of this has grief in it.
Even small identity changes have grief in them.
(34:53):
So I needed to open their eyes to that, to maybe 2024 is the sacred grieving
ceremony year, right? Bringing all that back.
We do need community. There is solitude and grief, but it quickly turns to isolation
when we're not careful and our brains will tell us nobody cares and it forgets
(35:13):
we're the ones that stepped back and people are being respectful of that.
They just don't know when it's time to come like, hi, we're still here.
So there is a little bit of a, I need time for myself.
But I think as As a society, the world is craving real connection,
craving being seen and heard.
And being able to offer that for other people, we've gotten really good about
(35:37):
talking about ourselves. We've gotten really good about that social media post, conversations.
When you hear about people dating now, you hear that one side of,
well, I did this and I did this and I did that and barely any questions.
And I just think, wow, wouldn't it be amazing to start being the person who
can have those powerful questions to ask and reflect what you hear and vice versa.
(36:03):
But we can't do that if we're not practicing it.
And that's off our phones and off the
computers and in person and getting
uncomfortable together and being like this you know this
is uncomfortable it totally is let's laugh it off okay let's
have the conversation I hope you
(36:23):
bring those circles down I mean obviously do whatever
is is right line for you but if
you don't do it I hope somebody does it I don't
want to do it but I would attend one
of those circles you know I just think there's that's that
that that is the kind of connection that we need there's like a deep not just
(36:46):
connection to other people but a deep sense of rootedness when you can stay
in this space I think it's of of of a grief focused focused conversation,
you know, it's like you, you completely slow down the rhythm of how life is moving.
And I, I really find that if you can stay in the conversation and walk away
(37:11):
with it, you'll actually feel profound sense of vitality afterwards.
And it's so interesting to me. I mean, just to talk about vitality and all the
pieces that it's related to, it's like, we've had this this very,
I'm going to say like just flat or two-dimensional approach that it equals,
you know, the self-care bubble bath or the, you know, the exercise and diet.
(37:34):
And those are factors in it, but there's this really incredible well of vitality
that's always running in our system.
And it's just waiting for this opportunity, honestly, to just be expressed.
Rest. And I have found, I mean, and I'm sure, you know, we both in our businesses, the.
(37:55):
I want to say that deep listening is really a huge component of it,
like to actually be a witness and create the space for somebody else to be really seen and heard.
And I can't tell you how many times I feel like the energetic life force has
increased exponentially when people really feel seen and heard.
(38:21):
And to be able to do that for somebody else helps you do it for yourself, right?
It's like, how much do we actually need to listen to ourselves and to what we've been holding,
the hidden grief that we've been holding in our system and how much more free
could we feel if we allowed for the space for it?
(38:44):
You know, it's that, like that is not the typical approach you would would think
of to creating vitality, right?
But I feel like it's a really important piece and it's a really important time
to be thinking about that because of,
you know, the bigness of the type of transformation and transition time that
(39:06):
we're in between the sort of old paradigm version of how we operate and a new
paradigm understanding of what
life is really about and choosing how we We want to show up in it, right?
And so thoughts, thoughts on hitting grief and vitality.
Yeah. Well, you just drew light that it's not just physical health,
that it's a mental and emotional health.
(39:28):
And I think the more we start to see emotional health a little bit separate
from mental health is the more holistic view of vitality. Yeah. Yeah.
So can you tell me from your personal experience, like before we wrap up our conversation today,
like how has your vitality changed
and shifted like do you like what helped
(39:49):
you especially in relation to the hidden
grief that that you have had and you know perhaps still have what have you done
to increase your vitality your and and before you answer that I do want to say
like my My definition of vitality is being a vital player in the game,
(40:10):
like being whatever that looks like. It's dynamic.
It's ever changing, but it's like, it's playing your role, you know,
like we all know when we're kind of hanging back and not investing in ourselves, et cetera, et cetera.
So, but I'm curious because you've, you've really dedicated a lot of your time,
(40:31):
energy focus to increasing your vitality. Thank you.
Yeah. So this year, looking at vitality from all the different angles,
this year needed to be more of a physical health vitality year for me.
Again, I shared I'm a mom of three young kids. So I was noticing the physical
draining experience of stress on me.
(40:54):
As much as I was working on balance and strategies and systems and productivity
and all of these things with a business going,
it was okay something's still
not helping my physical energy and so
I needed to go on that journey and that has been
amazing to learn so much about myself and not to be afraid to ask questions
(41:16):
and get tests done to get answers and looking at it from a holistic standpoint
you know on top of that is always continuing to do the emotional mental work
and for those of of you familiar with human design,
I'm a three, five manifesting generator and the three, five like learns by doing.
So everything I teach is just me learning to integrate it even more.
(41:38):
Every time I lead a workshop on emotional intelligence, it's,
you know, wiring it into my system even deeper.
Every time I talk about hidden grief, I'm having realizations of my own.
So if I am not out there doing stuff, if I'm not talking about it,
then my growth is stunted. And and I've realized that.
When I play small, when I'm quiet about things, when I don't talk honestly about
(42:02):
our relationships related to hidden grief or burnout or all of these things,
then I'm going through it.
I'm going to get stunted. And once I realized that, it helped me understand
that me showing up in my work is an integral part of my personal growth as well.
(42:22):
And it took away the heaviness feeling of it because then it was fun.
Like I love personal growth. So I was like, Oh, this is fun.
Like when I say this, what do I think? I listened to my podcast.
I will listen to, I do. Cause I'm like, that was good. What does that?
Oh, it makes me think about this because it's one thing to speak it out.
And I'm like you, I don't script. I just talk.
(42:44):
There's a topic I know I need to talk on and I just talk.
But when you go back and listen to yourself, it's like you you kind of remove it. This is me.
And you just listen to the message and you're like, whoa, I need to hear that. Right.
So like I stopped with this. Oh, it's me. I don't want to see myself.
I don't want to watch myself.
I don't want my kids know like mom's watching herself and they'll listen to,
(43:07):
but I'm like, told my husband, like, this is some, I'm channeling some good stuff here.
Like why not take it in for myself too? Because the three, five,
it's here to like trial and error and learn and grow and experience and learn
from themselves and you know.
People that jokingly, some of my clients call me their guru.
(43:27):
And I'm always like, oh, you're funny. But I'm like, have I become my own guru?
Like I listened to my, you know, these things, but we kind of need to become
that if you're going to grow in any area of like, okay, like I want to know it so deep to my core.
I want to understand that. I want to continue to learn more that I feel like
I can be the master of it and teach others.
(43:48):
Even if you don't decide to to teach them those things. Yeah.
Like why not? I remember a long time ago when I see you, like,
I could talk on a lot of topics. There's a lot of things I know really good.
Like I'm really good at food and all this stuff.
And, but you're like, but I choose to talk about this, but isn't it amazing
to have that toolkit of all those other things you could speak on?
Cause you know, it's so deep to yourself.
Yeah. That for me is also vitality is just having so many tools that you've
(44:14):
learned and not scratched the surface of it really dug deep into.
Yeah. So that they're, they're there, they're ingrained. When that grief comes
up, you're like, let me try this. That didn't work.
Let me try this. You know, instead of like, let me go grab the ice cream and
the potato chips. Like you might do that, but then you go, and now I'm going
to go for that walk. So I feel better after this.
(44:35):
I'm going to do the things now. I know that helped me feel like the the grief
is being processed rather than keeping it stuck inside of me.
Yeah. So my mind has been mainly physical. And then just the realization that
I, yes, of course I need to take breaks, but for the most part,
I need to be out there speaking.
I need to be talking about it because my growth is dependent on that too.
(44:58):
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I, that was a total pleasure for me to hear You say all of
that for multiple reasons.
One, that was a mirror because I totally watch my videos.
And I do, I love, I'm like, that was really good, right?
And my husband and my son do the same thing. They're like, okay,
(45:20):
she's listening to herself again.
But at this point, my husband will also watch it. He's like,
you should watch this again. You should watch yourself again.
This is really good. So I really relate to that. And also I just,
I love that you articulated how vitality is so closely connected with doing
(45:40):
your purpose work, right? right?
Doing the things that you feel called to do and doing the things that you feel called to learn.
That is, I'm going to say just very foundational to the core of my own values and standards.
And I want to say it's something that I, I'm losing my headset here,
something that I like to impress upon everyone that I work with,
(46:03):
like the importance of showing up and sharing, Not just because there are people
here to receive your transmissions,
but also because that energy is meant to move through you, right?
Like it enlivens you, it clears you out, it sets a new standard for yourself.
(46:25):
You are absorbing all of these incredibly profound messages that you are sharing.
You're literally engaging in the rewiring process. process.
And so, and I find too, that when we're operating at that level,
that that is both simultaneously addresses the vitality kind of like opens up.
(46:46):
It's like, I don't know, it's like taking a perfectly warm shower.
But on the inside or, you know, like it just, it opens the door for vitality,
but at the same time, it also,
I find is very like our purpose work
is very potent for grief work too it's
just because it we feel so expansive in
(47:08):
the expression of you know
our own aligned calling that we then see these pockets of hidden grief we we
can see things that we didn't see before because we're operating at a different
perspective when we're in our purpose work right We're like, oh, that's there.
(47:29):
And oh, that doesn't mean this. That actually can mean something different.
We see it from these new points of view. And so.
That was a beautiful bridge is my bottom line between hitting grief and vitality
and how your purpose work and really allowing yourself to be in the grace of
that can be profoundly healing for vitality and for hitting grief.
(47:54):
So thank you for that. You're welcome. Yes.
And I really, I feel like I could very easily double the time of this conversation,
but I want to respect our time here. So say thank you, Katie,
for joining me today in this conversation.
I know it's been a bit in some change since we had any conversation.
(48:15):
So grateful that you said yes to coming here today.
And also tell all the people where they can find you, what you're up to, promote all the thing.
Thank you. Again, thank you for this conversation. Like I said,
I was like, this is going to be some good stuff that's going to come out.
So if you would like to connect, you can go to my website, katyrustler.com.
(48:39):
Instagram is katy.rustler. My podcast is The Balance Code. You can find it on
YouTube, Spotify, Apple. It's on all the places.
So you can go to katyrustler.com forward slash positive connections.
I'll make sure Vanessa has has a link to share. And that is a great way to,
you know, to do some work in your relationship.
There's lots of other things I always offer if people want to come and work
(49:01):
with me, but I would just say, find me on social media, on my website and connect. Thank you.
And thank you to everyone that tuned in today and listen to the conversation
around hitting grief and vitality and little bonus points on the power of your purpose work.
From these new paradigm perspectives and energetic contexts and doing healing
(49:24):
for our lineage, for ourselves, for the collective.
So this is a really powerful, potent work that I invite you to engage with because
it is there and it is real for us.
And our vitality is not just right around the corner.
It's actually existing within us right now. And when we can give space to releasing
(49:45):
what we are holding on to, that vitality can really move freely.
And having had that experience this year, I can't implore you more to take it for yourself.
So with that, I am going to end this conversation and we'll be back soon with
another wonderful guest like Katie. And please do check out her stuff.
(50:08):
Really, as you could see, you could sit there and listen to her talk Talk about
all of these things for a very long time.
Telling you the truth there. So thanks again, Katie.
And I am going to sign off now. Take care. Moodly.
That's exactly what we hit is where the, where's the unresolved mental and emotional
baggage that is you're holding onto that's causing grief that is leading you to do, be, say,
you know, things that keep you in a stress mindset that keep you in overwhelm
and lead you to burnout for me figuring out how to talk to people about what
(00:23):
they were experiencing in a way that That helps them feel calmer about the darkness
that they might be experiencing.
And, you know, I love the analogy of a cocoon. And so when I talk about a cocoon,
people are like, oh, warm and cozy and you're in your cocoon.
But also cocoon is grief.
It is allowing that space, allowing a little bit of solitude and time to heal,
(00:47):
to integrate, to become anew.
That was Katie Rossler, our guest today for the Vitality Series on Check the Energy podcast.
And in this episode, we explore the concept of hidden grief and how it impacts
our health and vitality.
So many of us are walking around with unprocessed, unintegrated grief,
(01:12):
not even realizing how much it's influencing every area of our lives,
including when we hit a state of burnout.
Today, we get to go deeper into what hitting grief is all about and how to effectively
(01:32):
heal it, not just on your own, but within community.
So grateful Katie joined me today for this conversation.
If you'd love to learn more about her, simply go to katierossler.com.
And as always, you can find me at vasmith.com. With that, let's get started. Enjoy.
(01:52):
Welcome, welcome to Check the Energy podcast and the Vitality series,
which is hosted on YouTube.
Today, I'm really pleased, happy, joyful, excited to be talking with Katie Rossler,
who I will share a little bit of how we're connected.
But of course, for those of you that don't know me, I'm Vanessa Smith and I
(02:14):
love to talk about energy and the paradigm shift in your purpose role within it all.
And so today we're gonna be exploring the topic of hidden grief and how that
relates to and impacts our vitality.
I've, through my own journey that I'll be sharing today, I've been able to share with you.
In addition to like really exploring with Katie and her specific background,
(02:38):
how hitting grief showed up for me and deeply, deeply influenced my vitality
this year in particular.
So I'm, yeah, I'm just very looking forward to this conversation.
And as always, I want to give a little bit of story or context to how I know
Katie, because to me, that's like, that's the juice, right? Right.
(02:59):
It's it's always interesting to hear the bio and the training and the gifts
that people have. And I love that, too.
I'm like, how do you know each other? Like, how did that all come together?
And so I'll share a little bit and then I'm going to turn it over to Katie and
have her introduce herself in whatever way she sees fit.
(03:20):
And then we'll go from there. So the story, the story of how Katie and I met
is is actually in an online business.
Group. And we, I remember at the time, this was, was it 2018?
Yep. Holy cow, where? Right?
(03:40):
Prime moves in very strange ways. So in 2018, I feel like I've been about 500
different versions of myself since then.
Yeah. Right. Like who hasn't?
And so I remember that I had volunteered to kind of lead some meetups in the
group and you were on one of them.
(04:00):
And I remember, I distinctly remember that when Katie spoke.
I was like, she has got to be a speaker because I didn't want to actually speak,
even though I was the facilitator of the meeting and needed to keep talking
and inviting other people to share.
I just remember thinking, please keep talking because you are so interesting
(04:21):
and I love your voice. And this is fascinating.
Can we just have a conversation with the two of us? So that was my first impression of Katie.
And honestly, it hasn't changed very much.
Like whenever you see her online, you're like, wow, that is so fascinating,
especially if you're interested in psychology and really creating balance in your life.
(04:47):
And, you know, I want to say creating healthy relationships,
like within within your family, within your marriage, and then of course,
the topic hitting grief.
So I had the pleasure of being a mentor of Katie's for a couple of years,
worked with her as my client and seeing that transformation take place and then
having her business really bloom and continue to grow.
(05:11):
And I mean, it's just, it's phenomenal when you actually create relationships
with people to see the changes that take place in them over time.
It's really cool. So with all All that being said, really happy to have Katie here.
And with that, I'm going to turn it over to you.
Please, obviously, since I didn't illuminate your background with hitting grief,
(05:31):
share a little bit about your background and just anything else you want to share about your story.
Yeah. Thank you, Vanessa. I'm excited to be on here. And I know our conversation
is going to go quite deep.
So those who are listening, you might want to grab a paper and pen because I
have a feeling some big things are going to come out.
So by profession, I'm a licensed therapist, originally from the USA.
(05:52):
I live in Munich, Germany.
And my grief journey really started started after my mom died.
Well, I say it's where it started, but it's where my awareness really came to
light about it. And she died suddenly.
And it was one of those things where Vanessa and I talked actually a couple
months after I started working with you at that point. And I said, my compass is spinning.
(06:13):
I don't have direction anymore in my life.
And all the work I'd been doing up until then, I didn't realize was a way of
always trying to save my mom mom or save people who are like my mom.
And when she was gone, it was like, well, I don't need to do that anymore.
So I went on this, it was really a year long, over a year long journey of trying
(06:38):
to understand myself in the context of life without a mom on the planet,
really understanding grief.
As a military kid growing up, I was uprooted constantly instantly.
And that had so much grief with it that I didn't realize I had not fully processed.
And so it was just this realization of like, oh, my parents divorced and this
(06:59):
and this and this, all of it had grief.
And it felt different magnitudes to the loss of a parent, but the same grief.
And that was the point where I started to realize hidden grief isn't something
we're talking about enough.
And as I started to talk more about grief, people were a little uncomfortable
uncomfortable because grief is not a fun topic for people, right?
(07:21):
Like it's like, oh God, she's talking about grief again.
I started to want to talk about stress and overwhelming burnout and.
It's caused by hidden grief. So it was very easy to talk about it in a way that
people understood and to say, you know, I'm a burnout specialist and I work also in hidden grief.
(07:43):
And as soon as someone starts to work with me, that's exactly what we hit is
where the, where's the unresolved mental and emotional baggage that is you're
holding onto that's causing grief that is leading you to do, be,
say, you know, things that keep you
in a stress mindset that keep you in overwhelm and lead you to burnout.
(08:06):
I've authored two books in the time working on a third, like I just sort of
spiraled into this beautiful way of like that compass didn't need to point north.
It could point anywhere it needed to, because there was just so many possibilities
to to go and helping people with this.
I've spoken at companies. I've spoken on stages internationally.
(08:27):
It's really grown since the time I worked with Vanessa of my story being the catalyst.
For me figuring out how to talk to people about what they were experiencing
in a way that helps them feel calmer about the darkness that they might be experiencing.
And I love the analogy of a cocoon. And so when I talk about a cocoon,
(08:51):
people are like, oh, warm and cozy, and you're in your cocoon,
but also cocoon is grief.
It is allowing that space, allowing a little bit of solitude and time to heal,
to integrate, to become a new.
And so, yeah. So one of my giftings is analogies, adding humor to everything
that I do and always smiling through a little bit.
(09:13):
And I've, I've been honored to work with so many people on their journey with
grief, with understanding their stress cycle.
And it all stemmed because I had to walk through my own fire.
And I like to think of it like bringing cold buckets of water,
not to make the fire go away for people, but to like soothe their feet as they're
walking through it. Yeah.
(09:35):
So where are you at now with your own grief?
With my own grief, you know, it was interesting. We just hit the five-year mark of my mom's death.
And a couple months prior to that, a great uncle who was kind of like a pseudo
dad when my dad left, passed away.
And I went back home and I realized there's so much grief still around living
(09:56):
abroad and finding my, my identity of who am I based on my culture?
Who am I based on my family?
Because I have changed so much. So that is something I'm still in the process
of integrating and understanding.
The grief around my mom's death is still...
(10:17):
In progress, right? When somebody dies so suddenly, it allows for a lot of things
to come to the surface around your fears about dying early, right? I'm a mom of three girls.
I don't want to leave this planet early for them, but I understand my story
is able to develop because my mom passed in the way that she did and the things
(10:40):
that were able to happen afterwards words would not have happened in that way.
So I, I get that I'm, I'm a pivotal role for them, but I'm also just a part,
just like how I've started to understand that from my own life.
So, so I would say that, that whole thing.
And as you lose someone, especially someone who created part of your identity, right?
(11:04):
There is the, who am I without them, but who do I not not want to be because of them.
That's the piece I'm in right now is an understanding of looking at a parent
from a holistic human standpoint.
What are some of the habits or ways that she was, or my dad was,
or my grandmother, my aunt, whomever, that I don't want to be?
(11:25):
And what are the good things I want to pull? And I'd say that's where I am in
my grief journey is just integration and more awareness of what's coming up.
Thank you for asking though. Most people stay away from asking,
how's your grief? But it's actually a great question to ask people.
It seems like the most obvious route to go.
(11:47):
But yeah, it can be, you know, uncomfortable to actually look at what's happening in the present moment.
And I think that is one of the key factors in even identifying grief to begin
with is is because you just have this sense that you're holding something, right?
(12:09):
Like you might not even know to name it as grief, which I think is the terminology
that you use, hidden grief.
It's so perfect because we really have a blind spot to all of these,
you know, whether you call them blocks or densities or just unresolved issues
that we're carrying around with us that impact our decision-making,
(12:31):
our clarity our confidence our our ability to be able to communicate effectively
with the people that we actually really care about you know there's all of these
different ways that you know.
Grief and fear and vitality are all just kind of underneath the surface in this
(12:52):
interconnected relationship with each other and i think it can be a really powerful
entry point to just Just how are you now, really?
You know, and I think I just actually want to commend you for being brave enough to be honest.
Because I think that is the, I want to say like the larger identity space that
(13:18):
we're all in right now is how can we be our most authentic expression in this
moment, knowing that it's always changing,
knowing that we're always growing,
like, can we create a sense of safety and security within ourselves so we can
show up and just be the truth of who we are,
(13:39):
no matter how people receive us, right?
Like, there's that fear of, holy cow, if I bring grief to the dinner party,
like, Oh, God, you invited that kid?
Like, who's gonna want to talk to me? Or like, it's just there's a certain heaviness
associated with it, right?
But like, if you can actually create space to honor it, and to allow it to be,
(14:04):
then we we can create
a lot of closeness with the
person that is witnessing or able to
receive where we actually are with deep
listening and without and I think that's what you provide for people I think
the fact that you're calling it out you're naming it you're creating this really
(14:27):
a secure container for people online and with everything that you offer up in
the world and and the way that you articulate the experience and the process of grief,
it helps it feel less scary, right? Yes.
What I want to ask you about is how is it connected to vitality?
(14:48):
Because you've mentioned burnout.
And I think that's something that we're all, like anybody in this day and age,
is familiar with what that's about.
And we're reaching, like, how do we resolve burnout?
How can we create a different experience for us in life?
But it's a different question to say, how can I create vitality?
(15:10):
Yes. And because you're looking in a different direction, not bypassing necessarily,
but it's a kind of a different set of circumstances or a different perspective to look through.
So when you're looking at like, what do you see as the connection between the
grief that we carry with us and how vital we feel in the world? Yeah.
(15:32):
So I want you to imagine that everyone is walking around with like open wounds on them, right?
Like gashes and just like raw and festering and they bump into each other and
it's like, oh, oh, oh, oh, you know, like, oh, don't touch me. Don't do that. Don't.
So vitality is not that. It is not like, oh, I'm like a walking,
(15:54):
you know, like injury constantly.
But grief work and healing is really cleaning those wounds and allowing them
to be stitched, which is painful.
And then allowing the scar to form. So giving it time, not saying not rushing it.
(16:14):
Why isn't this healed? Let me pick up the scab. No, like allowing it to heal
and having the scars there.
So you learn from those scars. Anybody who has a scar from like a sport,
you're like, Like, oh, this time in 19, da, da, da, I've had this injury.
And we like to tell about our scars, how we got them.
And so we have these emotional and mental scars, if we allow it to heal,
(16:36):
that when bumped into, if you've had a deep scar, then you know it's still a little numb.
It's still a little like uncomfortable at times, but it's nothing like what
it was when it was an open wound.
And so as people get a little bit close, you might still feel it,
but you don't run away from them. You don't flinch.
You just go like, oh, rub it on it. Okay, no, we're good. I know the coping skills to help.
(17:01):
And that is how we create vitality in our lives is to finally allow all those
wounds to close up, like clean them first, clean them, stitch them,
close them up, give the time, don't overdo it.
Like, oh, I'm going to jump back into doing this. It's like,
well, that hasn't healed.
And then be able to walk confidently with these scars where we're like,
(17:24):
like, yeah, that happened.
This is how it changed me. This is how it helped me grow.
That for me is vitality. So if we're not healing, if we're not working on the
hidden grief, vitality is an idea.
It's like a dream and we can all envision it. We can all embody the feeling of that vitality.
Anytime we want to manifest something, like for our lives, especially an internal
(17:48):
personal growth thing, that means you have to do the work.
A lot of people are like, well, I'll just wake up and it'll all be gone.
I'm like, it's not like wake up and there's money in your mailbox.
Healing and personal growth is like you still have to do it.
It's not manifesting money.
It's like I want to feel more vital in my life. Okay, then let's do this.
(18:09):
Let's walk through the fire. I've got some buckets for you to help with your
feet, but you got to go on the journey still.
And that's the piece where I think people love the idea of vitality,
love the idea of that wholeness and alignment, but it serves them to stay walking
around with the wounds. It just, it does.
(18:29):
Yeah. I really love how you give a nod to integration and the,
this, like the space for that, how how important it is because I think, well,
I've noticed that in either the holistic health world or even the spiritual approach to things,
(18:50):
there's like, you don't have to stay in the wound so long or you can make it shift so fast.
And it's almost like a thinly disguised way of bypassing and sort of addiction
or attachment to a peak moment, like, oh, you could just move right through it.
Yeah, acknowledge it, but then get right back into the game of whatever it is you want to create.
(19:15):
It's about frequency. Keep your frequency at this certain level.
And I think that can be really confusing for a lot of people that are new to
the healing process and new to to specifically healing grief in particular, because it is...
It's so dynamic. Green, right? Like it isn't, it is that wound,
(19:41):
but it's also the identity.
It's also the burnout. It's also the indecision. It's also all the things unsaid
with a person or a situation.
And as you grow and change and evolve into these different versions of yourself,
it's like you meet grief again and you respond to it a little bit differently.
(20:02):
And it's almost like we're in this continuous dancer relationship with it.
And I think that's a new concept for people to really understand that it's not about making it go away.
It's just about these different levels of conversation and space for integration
(20:24):
and just allowing for the pause, allowing for the slowness, allowing for the rest.
Really trusting your, I'm going to say not just trusting your body,
but also trusting how your own unique energy wants to move with the process of grief, right?
(20:44):
We have this idea of, well, it's grief. It's heavy.
We should be doing this or that with it. And it's like, no, you can do art with
it. You can jump on a trampoline with it.
You can, you know, you know be intimate
with your partner about it like there's all of these
different ways and it's just really a matter of your your focus
(21:05):
and your intention that's what
all of what you said just brought up in me but i actually wanted to ask you
about something specific in relation to greek to my experience that i had this
year and because i'm curious your take on it as you know you know i'm I'm immersed
in the energy perspective, right?
(21:25):
Like that's my wheelhouse.
It's how I view life and how I understand the underlying dynamics of all the things.
So this year I had some, I had a broken tooth earlier this year and I didn't
realize that it was broken, but it was really sapping my vitality,
which is like, okay, makes sense. It was broken. It was infected.
(21:49):
I didn't realize the degree. I just knew that I felt really bad physically,
like I felt very drained all the time.
And in the process of realizing it was broken,
I went up and I looked on a meridian chart of what the tooth was related to,
because one of the symptoms that I was having was a really overwhelming sense of grief.
(22:13):
And it did not feel like mine.
So it was a very odd experience for me because I was like,
this feels very strong, intense palpable it's it's draining and I also don't
feel like it I it's any of my stuff like I feel I feel.
(22:34):
Peace and I feel complete. And yet this wave of grief is washing over me.
And so to link it back to the meridian chart, that particular tooth was related
to holding grief in the body.
And so the tooth was broken and all this grief that actually wasn't mine was
leaking out of my system.
(22:56):
And I was experiencing it or kind of as if it was mine, but I knew intuitively this is not mine.
This belongs to either my lineage or the culture, or there's just all of these
other pieces of grief that I didn't realize I was holding that weren't my own.
And as soon as my tooth got fixed, it was so, I mean, honestly, it blew my mind.
(23:22):
The grief, it was just gone. Like literally right after my tooth was pulled
out of my mouth, I did not feel grief. I felt pain, but it did not feel like
physical pain, but I did not feel any grief.
And it has been since that point.
I mean, I'm feeling other things in general about like as we go through life,
(23:44):
but the intensity of that grief, you know, I'm really grateful now for the tooth
because I didn't it showed me what I was holding.
Right. Right. And so I'm just wanting your take on from an energy perspective,
how we hold on to other people's grief and how we can differentiate like what
(24:05):
really belongs to us and what doesn't.
What can we release from our system without without needing to process it because
it wasn't ours to begin with?
Right. And not internalizing it like, is there something I've missed?
Like, is this like what, you know, it's easy for us to do the mind game of like,
there must be something. Let me go through all the past, right?
(24:25):
All the starts, the one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, 10.
So gosh, I have been studying more and more epigenetics and what is passed down
to us consciously or unconsciously.
And it's really powerful.
You know, there's two sides of what you shared. We've got the science side of
inflammation in the body.
(24:45):
Impacts depression and it's like
depression is a symptom of inflammation in the body it's
like if you have a cold and the sinus infection you're like i feel down
i don't feel good and stuff it's because the depressive nature
it's not depression itself the depressive nature of i'm sad i'm down which is
what we usually attribute degree can be activated on top of that you've got
(25:07):
you knowing i have an essay i constantly have really clear energy like i'm really
good i've been doing the work. I've been clearing things. So what is this?
And knowing it's somebody else's. And when it comes to your body,
that's epigenetics all the way, right?
And that's powerful.
And I think so many people are waking up this year and last year,
(25:29):
and even going into 2024, realizing they are the missing link to the healing
process for their family lines.
They're the ones that are going
going to say no more. I'm not doing this anymore. This is unacceptable.
I'm not showing up for this and I hand it back.
And it can be really hard actually. And I'm working with a client now that releasing
(25:50):
what she's held onto that she now realizes was her grandmothers and probably great grandmothers.
She doesn't want to hand it back to them even energetically because she's like,
this is heavy. I don't, I wouldn't want to put this on anybody.
Right. And I'm like, Like, but they're not even here. Like, not even here.
You can hand it back. So there's our identity gets wrapped up into it.
But also I desire not to hurt any family members when we need to release that grief.
(26:15):
But there's a piece where we have to respect it wasn't ours to carry from the beginning.
They were already carrying it. And so when we allow it to become theirs again
and thank them for all the lessons it gave us, it's closure.
And closure creates that vitality.
And that's uncomfortable. when we're, you know, I heard someone the other day
(26:38):
say, we will pick a comfortable hell to get away from an uncomfortable heaven.
And it was like, oh, you were right. Like we will stay with what we know,
even if it's not good for us, even if it's the wrong relationship or whatever,
because it's comfortable and feel safe because of the comfort rather than vitality,
(27:01):
which feels uncomfortable because our nervous system is not used
to that and how do you sit with that yeah and
so being able to release that with your tooth is like amazing that it's like
oh that was not even mine thank goodness that it like passed that quickly yeah
yeah yeah I was really grateful and and honestly quite astonished at how quick
(27:23):
the change was because I had been throwing.
Supplements at, you know, my levels of vitality.
I had been, yeah, I had been doing the healing work.
I'm like, okay, journal, you know, like, okay, ritual, like,
oh, we're doing the thing.
We're digging in there to figure out like what this heaviness is.
(27:46):
And yeah, so to actually go go through, this is a nod also to the process,
like to go through the painful parts of whatever,
whatever it is you need to face so you can be free from it. Right.
And, and I, you know, I don't, okay, let's see. What is my question?
(28:09):
While you think, I'm going to point out, you kept using the word,
it's draining me. It was draining me. It was draining, draining, draining, draining.
That for me would be like, where in your family line did someone experience
either like a physical drain?
It's something occurred because you are already speaking the genetic line of where the trauma is.
(28:29):
Right. And so you asked like, well, how does somebody be aware of it?
If it's the words, the vocabulary that feels like, wow, I keep bringing this
up and it it doesn't always feel like my words yeah i'm feeling this and it doesn't feel like mine,
that's the time to go like let me go inward and go genetically like where's
that family line where does that make sense so i didn't mean to interrupt your
(28:51):
question but i was like oh let me know at this one thing yeah yeah yeah no i
think the language is it's an easy in that we often and overlook too.
And in my mind, I think, oh, right. Perfect.
Where do I need to seal up any drains, any leak?
And then also just as an examination, whether it's, you know,
(29:14):
reflecting on the family members I did know,
or doing just a more intuitive check-in of like who was allowing allowing drains
in their own life and in what way.
Right. And, you know, it's interesting when you're talking about handing it back to them.
I'm like, do we need to do that? I mean, so here's the here's my question.
(29:37):
Like when we're talking about like resolving grief and vitality,
if we're going on the premise that we're coming in here to to transform and
alchemize the lineage, lineage, whatever the family line is and what we've been
carrying, and it stops with us.
Instead of handing back, what can we work with our ancestors,
(29:58):
whether they're alive or not, but just energetically, intuitively,
and say, hey, here's what I discovered.
And have that sort of internal, creative, imaginative, intuitive conversation
with them and say, how did this show up in your life?
And let's hear.
(30:19):
I'm going to take mine off of me, what I discovered. You take yours off of you.
Let's put it just in the center out in front of us and bury it in the earth
or give it up to, you know, God or the universe or however you experience that.
But I feel like somehow that speaks to or feels more potent to me than passing it back.
(30:47):
I can imagine that they're like, I don't want this, you know.
And so, I mean, I love the idea of releasing what is not yours.
Absolutely. But I'm like, how can we, how can we liberate the,
not just ourselves, but the entire line?
There's, I mean, that's as well, you know, they have a choice point.
(31:09):
They have a choice point as to whether they accept what we pass back to them.
Right. But if we can work together, And I'm just at this moment a little personally
obsessed with that idea of togetherness.
Like, how can we work together as a collective or as a community or as a partnership to work?
(31:32):
To address, to become aware of, and to heal hidden grief so we can experience
vitality as a collective?
How can we have each other's backs in that way?
What is the new paradigm approach to having those hard conversations, right?
(31:54):
I feel like we have a very one-track mind
when it's when it's comes to healing
grief or addressing hitting grief because it
it's like it's heavy here's the one way to
do it and good luck like see you on the other side right cry it out yeah it
feels like isolating you know what i mean yeah totally and it's a very vulnerable
(32:15):
experience to even identify where you're carrying grief and so i'm just like
what do we do katie do Do we have grief circles?
Do we have, how do we bring it into a collective conversation where we're experiencing
the transformation together and we create like a safety of container for the community,
(32:38):
especially when there's some really crappy things going on in the broader context
that is bringing up a lot of grief for people, right?
It's like, I don't know, I popped off in a million different directions.
That's okay. I'm going to try to cover it all.
First was, I do love the idea, you and the family member or the lineage together.
(33:02):
Putting it all together in one and then releasing that. I think that's an excellent
idea because we were all born on this earth and the way the world is created is there's a blame.
And there is a, like, if you're holding something, it's yours.
That's for your mind to go. I'm now releasing this.
So as long as even in that energetic exchange through a meditation,
(33:23):
you're like, I'm removing this from me and you're removing it from you too.
So it's no longer going up and down on our family lines and we're bearing it
we're you know whatever it might be going into fire into the flames yes absolutely
but for many it is that i need to like i need to give it back to them,
because especially if they passed on it's nothing to them it is not you know
(33:47):
it's like oh yeah you're right that was like when i was on earth that's what
i was doing like give that back it's It's like now it doesn't bother me. Whatever.
Yeah. But we still think earthfully like I'm giving that back to them.
They don't want it kind of thing. It's like, no.
And you can, I do. I love that idea of coming together and joining together,
putting it in one place. I think that's a beautiful, beautiful way. And I agree.
(34:10):
And I really think 2024 is about, as you've seen, the way I'm talking about
things is more about couples and families.
And I think it is about community and it is about relationships.
So how do we come together? together and normalize grieving,
normalize difficult conversations.
And a couple of years ago, I had wanted to start sacred grieving ceremonies
(34:32):
and it was just not the right time.
I was still getting people to look at hidden grief.
Nobody died. Yes, of course, but there can still be grief.
There's a change. You moved, you became a parent, you got a divorce.
All of this has grief in it.
Even small identity changes have grief in them.
(34:53):
So I needed to open their eyes to that, to maybe 2024 is the sacred grieving
ceremony year, right? Bringing all that back.
We do need community. There is solitude and grief, but it quickly turns to isolation
when we're not careful and our brains will tell us nobody cares and it forgets
(35:13):
we're the ones that stepped back and people are being respectful of that.
They just don't know when it's time to come like, hi, we're still here.
So there is a little bit of a, I need time for myself.
But I think as As a society, the world is craving real connection,
craving being seen and heard.
And being able to offer that for other people, we've gotten really good about
(35:37):
talking about ourselves. We've gotten really good about that social media post, conversations.
When you hear about people dating now, you hear that one side of,
well, I did this and I did this and I did that and barely any questions.
And I just think, wow, wouldn't it be amazing to start being the person who
can have those powerful questions to ask and reflect what you hear and vice versa.
(36:03):
But we can't do that if we're not practicing it.
And that's off our phones and off the
computers and in person and getting
uncomfortable together and being like this you know this
is uncomfortable it totally is let's laugh it off okay let's
have the conversation I hope you
(36:23):
bring those circles down I mean obviously do whatever
is is right line for you but if
you don't do it I hope somebody does it I don't
want to do it but I would attend one
of those circles you know I just think there's that's that
that that is the kind of connection that we need there's like a deep not just
(36:46):
connection to other people but a deep sense of rootedness when you can stay
in this space I think it's of of of a grief focused focused conversation,
you know, it's like you, you completely slow down the rhythm of how life is moving.
And I, I really find that if you can stay in the conversation and walk away
(37:11):
with it, you'll actually feel profound sense of vitality afterwards.
And it's so interesting to me. I mean, just to talk about vitality and all the
pieces that it's related to, it's like, we've had this this very,
I'm going to say like just flat or two-dimensional approach that it equals,
you know, the self-care bubble bath or the, you know, the exercise and diet.
(37:34):
And those are factors in it, but there's this really incredible well of vitality
that's always running in our system.
And it's just waiting for this opportunity, honestly, to just be expressed.
Rest. And I have found, I mean, and I'm sure, you know, we both in our businesses, the.
(37:55):
I want to say that deep listening is really a huge component of it,
like to actually be a witness and create the space for somebody else to be really seen and heard.
And I can't tell you how many times I feel like the energetic life force has
increased exponentially when people really feel seen and heard.
(38:21):
And to be able to do that for somebody else helps you do it for yourself, right?
It's like, how much do we actually need to listen to ourselves and to what we've been holding,
the hidden grief that we've been holding in our system and how much more free
could we feel if we allowed for the space for it?
(38:44):
You know, it's that, like that is not the typical approach you would would think
of to creating vitality, right?
But I feel like it's a really important piece and it's a really important time
to be thinking about that because of,
you know, the bigness of the type of transformation and transition time that
(39:06):
we're in between the sort of old paradigm version of how we operate and a new
paradigm understanding of what
life is really about and choosing how we We want to show up in it, right?
And so thoughts, thoughts on hitting grief and vitality.
Yeah. Well, you just drew light that it's not just physical health,
that it's a mental and emotional health.
(39:28):
And I think the more we start to see emotional health a little bit separate
from mental health is the more holistic view of vitality. Yeah. Yeah.
So can you tell me from your personal experience, like before we wrap up our conversation today,
like how has your vitality changed
and shifted like do you like what helped
(39:49):
you especially in relation to the hidden
grief that that you have had and you know perhaps still have what have you done
to increase your vitality your and and before you answer that I do want to say
like my My definition of vitality is being a vital player in the game,
(40:10):
like being whatever that looks like. It's dynamic.
It's ever changing, but it's like, it's playing your role, you know,
like we all know when we're kind of hanging back and not investing in ourselves, et cetera, et cetera.
So, but I'm curious because you've, you've really dedicated a lot of your time,
(40:31):
energy focus to increasing your vitality. Thank you.
Yeah. So this year, looking at vitality from all the different angles,
this year needed to be more of a physical health vitality year for me.
Again, I shared I'm a mom of three young kids. So I was noticing the physical
draining experience of stress on me.
(40:54):
As much as I was working on balance and strategies and systems and productivity
and all of these things with a business going,
it was okay something's still
not helping my physical energy and so
I needed to go on that journey and that has been
amazing to learn so much about myself and not to be afraid to ask questions
(41:16):
and get tests done to get answers and looking at it from a holistic standpoint
you know on top of that is always continuing to do the emotional mental work
and for those of of you familiar with human design,
I'm a three, five manifesting generator and the three, five like learns by doing.
So everything I teach is just me learning to integrate it even more.
(41:38):
Every time I lead a workshop on emotional intelligence, it's,
you know, wiring it into my system even deeper.
Every time I talk about hidden grief, I'm having realizations of my own.
So if I am not out there doing stuff, if I'm not talking about it,
then my growth is stunted. And and I've realized that.
When I play small, when I'm quiet about things, when I don't talk honestly about
(42:02):
our relationships related to hidden grief or burnout or all of these things,
then I'm going through it.
I'm going to get stunted. And once I realized that, it helped me understand
that me showing up in my work is an integral part of my personal growth as well.
(42:22):
And it took away the heaviness feeling of it because then it was fun.
Like I love personal growth. So I was like, Oh, this is fun.
Like when I say this, what do I think? I listened to my podcast.
I will listen to, I do. Cause I'm like, that was good. What does that?
Oh, it makes me think about this because it's one thing to speak it out.
And I'm like you, I don't script. I just talk.
(42:44):
There's a topic I know I need to talk on and I just talk.
But when you go back and listen to yourself, it's like you you kind of remove it. This is me.
And you just listen to the message and you're like, whoa, I need to hear that. Right.
So like I stopped with this. Oh, it's me. I don't want to see myself.
I don't want to watch myself.
I don't want my kids know like mom's watching herself and they'll listen to,
(43:07):
but I'm like, told my husband, like, this is some, I'm channeling some good stuff here.
Like why not take it in for myself too? Because the three, five,
it's here to like trial and error and learn and grow and experience and learn
from themselves and you know.
People that jokingly, some of my clients call me their guru.
(43:27):
And I'm always like, oh, you're funny. But I'm like, have I become my own guru?
Like I listened to my, you know, these things, but we kind of need to become
that if you're going to grow in any area of like, okay, like I want to know it so deep to my core.
I want to understand that. I want to continue to learn more that I feel like
I can be the master of it and teach others.
(43:48):
Even if you don't decide to to teach them those things. Yeah.
Like why not? I remember a long time ago when I see you, like,
I could talk on a lot of topics. There's a lot of things I know really good.
Like I'm really good at food and all this stuff.
And, but you're like, but I choose to talk about this, but isn't it amazing
to have that toolkit of all those other things you could speak on?
Cause you know, it's so deep to yourself.
Yeah. That for me is also vitality is just having so many tools that you've
(44:14):
learned and not scratched the surface of it really dug deep into.
Yeah. So that they're, they're there, they're ingrained. When that grief comes
up, you're like, let me try this. That didn't work.
Let me try this. You know, instead of like, let me go grab the ice cream and
the potato chips. Like you might do that, but then you go, and now I'm going
to go for that walk. So I feel better after this.
(44:35):
I'm going to do the things now. I know that helped me feel like the the grief
is being processed rather than keeping it stuck inside of me.
Yeah. So my mind has been mainly physical. And then just the realization that
I, yes, of course I need to take breaks, but for the most part,
I need to be out there speaking.
I need to be talking about it because my growth is dependent on that too.
(44:58):
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I, that was a total pleasure for me to hear You say all of
that for multiple reasons.
One, that was a mirror because I totally watch my videos.
And I do, I love, I'm like, that was really good, right?
And my husband and my son do the same thing. They're like, okay,
(45:20):
she's listening to herself again.
But at this point, my husband will also watch it. He's like,
you should watch this again. You should watch yourself again.
This is really good. So I really relate to that. And also I just,
I love that you articulated how vitality is so closely connected with doing
(45:40):
your purpose work, right? right?
Doing the things that you feel called to do and doing the things that you feel called to learn.
That is, I'm going to say just very foundational to the core of my own values and standards.
And I want to say it's something that I, I'm losing my headset here,
something that I like to impress upon everyone that I work with,
(46:03):
like the importance of showing up and sharing, Not just because there are people
here to receive your transmissions,
but also because that energy is meant to move through you, right?
Like it enlivens you, it clears you out, it sets a new standard for yourself.
(46:25):
You are absorbing all of these incredibly profound messages that you are sharing.
You're literally engaging in the rewiring process. process.
And so, and I find too, that when we're operating at that level,
that that is both simultaneously addresses the vitality kind of like opens up.
(46:46):
It's like, I don't know, it's like taking a perfectly warm shower.
But on the inside or, you know, like it just, it opens the door for vitality,
but at the same time, it also,
I find is very like our purpose work
is very potent for grief work too it's
just because it we feel so expansive in
(47:08):
the expression of you know
our own aligned calling that we then see these pockets of hidden grief we we
can see things that we didn't see before because we're operating at a different
perspective when we're in our purpose work right We're like, oh, that's there.
(47:29):
And oh, that doesn't mean this. That actually can mean something different.
We see it from these new points of view. And so.
That was a beautiful bridge is my bottom line between hitting grief and vitality
and how your purpose work and really allowing yourself to be in the grace of
that can be profoundly healing for vitality and for hitting grief.
(47:54):
So thank you for that. You're welcome. Yes.
And I really, I feel like I could very easily double the time of this conversation,
but I want to respect our time here. So say thank you, Katie,
for joining me today in this conversation.
I know it's been a bit in some change since we had any conversation.
(48:15):
So grateful that you said yes to coming here today.
And also tell all the people where they can find you, what you're up to, promote all the thing.
Thank you. Again, thank you for this conversation. Like I said,
I was like, this is going to be some good stuff that's going to come out.
So if you would like to connect, you can go to my website, katyrustler.com.
(48:39):
Instagram is katy.rustler. My podcast is The Balance Code. You can find it on
YouTube, Spotify, Apple. It's on all the places.
So you can go to katyrustler.com forward slash positive connections.
I'll make sure Vanessa has has a link to share. And that is a great way to,
you know, to do some work in your relationship.
There's lots of other things I always offer if people want to come and work
(49:01):
with me, but I would just say, find me on social media, on my website and connect. Thank you.
And thank you to everyone that tuned in today and listen to the conversation
around hitting grief and vitality and little bonus points on the power of your purpose work.
From these new paradigm perspectives and energetic contexts and doing healing
(49:24):
for our lineage, for ourselves, for the collective.
So this is a really powerful, potent work that I invite you to engage with because
it is there and it is real for us.
And our vitality is not just right around the corner.
It's actually existing within us right now. And when we can give space to releasing
(49:45):
what we are holding on to, that vitality can really move freely.
And having had that experience this year, I can't implore you more to take it for yourself.
So with that, I am going to end this conversation and we'll be back soon with
another wonderful guest like Katie. And please do check out her stuff.
(50:08):
Really, as you could see, you could sit there and listen to her talk Talk about
all of these things for a very long time.
Telling you the truth there. So thanks again, Katie.
And I am going to sign off now. Take care. Moodly.
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