November 1, 2023 • 35 mins
In this episode I chat with acclaimed theologian, author and speaker Amy Orr-Ewing about how Mary, the mother of Jesus, is uniquely placed to tell the nativity story as we discuss her new Advent devotional book 'Mary's Voice'. We discuss advent, the role of women in the church. her love of coffee and art as well as some of her favourite family advent traditions. Listen now.
This episode is sponsored by the book 'Wonder - An Advent and Christmas Collection'
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
This is Christian book blurb brought to you by author and songwriter Matt McChlery.
Get a behind the scenes glimpse into the lives of some of your favourite Christian authors.
Hear about their books and faith.
Also,
why not check out my website mattmcchlery.com
This episode of Christian book blood podcast is sponsored by the Book Wonder An Advent and Christmas collection by Andy March.
(00:27):
Well,
hello and welcome to this episode of the Christian book Blurb where we like to encourage you in your discipleship.
One book at a time as we meet some amazing Christian authors and learn about their books,
their lives and their faith.
I'm your host,
Matt McChlery.
Thanks for joining me.
Welcome aboard and on today's show,
I'm going to be talking about seeing the Christmas story through Mary's eyes with the author Amy or Ewing.
(00:55):
So welcome to the show,
Amy.
Thank you for joining us.
Thank you for having me.
It's so good to have you with us today.
Now,
um the listeners will,
well,
they might know that this episode has gone out at the very beginning of November.
Um And we're already talking about Christmas.
Oh,
some people might not be too comfortable with that.
(01:17):
But the reason we're doing it is because Amy has written an Advent book.
And what I like to do in November is I dedicate the two episodes of the Christian book blur in November to looking at Advent resources so that you've got time to get to know a bit about them and also maybe buy a copy if you're really interested by what you've heard in time,
(01:42):
time for the Advent season to begin.
And this year that starts in very early December.
So that's why we are starting to talk about Advent Christmas type things now,
so that you can grab the books um so that you can journey with the authors and of course,
with God through Advent itself.
(02:04):
So,
Amy,
please,
can you explain for our listeners who might not be too familiar with the term advent?
What is advent?
Yeah,
sure.
Thank you,
Matt.
So the book is Mary's Voice.
Um Advent Reflections to contemplate the coming of Christ.
And um Advent is just a Latin word that means arrival.
(02:25):
And traditionally Christians have spent the few weeks before Christmas Day,
four weeks before Christmas Day.
Um Reflecting on actually the second coming of Jesus as we prepare for his first coming.
Um But also I think drawing near to Christ,
(02:45):
preparing our hearts for um the celebration of Christmas when obviously we celebrate the incarnation of God.
So the idea of Advent is that you know,
Christmas doesn't just sort of come upon us out of nowhere and we,
we just feel a bit unprepared for all of that celebration,
but it's a spiritual preparation um in our devotional lives in our churches and communities and we sort of progressively journey together towards Christmas.
(03:18):
So that's,
that's the reason.
Um I've written this book,
Mary's Voice is to do exactly that,
to help Christians prepare,
um to,
to really reflect on who Jesus is and to do that by centering Mary's perspective,
who had this obviously amazing front row seat on the events.
(03:41):
And you've mentioned,
you've written this book to help people journey through the Advent Season.
Um Another term for them in the Christian book world is um a devotional.
Um What,
what is the concept behind sort of a devotional style book?
Yeah.
So a devotional style book tends to be a book that um doesn't have kind of traditional chapters.
(04:06):
You know,
it has um like a daily reading that you can read that builds one day upon the other and often for a sort of fixed time,
30 days or in this case,
25 days with a um introduction and conclusion.
Um And with,
with Mary's voice,
the,
the devotional sort of it begins on December the first to make it easier.
(04:29):
Traditionally,
actually Advent is the Fourth Sunday.
It begins the fourth Sunday before Christmas,
but that's quite confusing and the date is different every year.
So I just began on December the first to make this,
this really accessible and easy.
And it would be a daily um a reading from scripture,
a reflection in,
(04:51):
you know,
Mary's voices case.
The reflection is um really kind of drawing out theologically different truths by looking at this through the lens of,
of,
of Mary's voice.
Um And then there would be a prayer um a liturgical prayer.
So prayer that someone else has written that people in church sometimes say historically and those are the prayers I've chosen from lots of different contexts.
(05:18):
So you've got a Bible reading,
um some devotional writing than a prayer that you can pray and then also a piece of art and that is reproduced um to reflect on,
visually,
reflect on,
you know,
what,
what,
what you've read.
Hm.
That,
that's really great.
Thank you,
Amy.
Um Speaking of your book,
(05:39):
Mary's Voice,
um why did you choose to focus your writing on Mary?
So,
um I've been a Christian for a long time.
Um all of my adult life and I work in the field of theology and,
you know,
obviously,
I've,
I've read and studied the Bible a lot.
(06:00):
Um But I realized actually,
when I was um sitting in AAA Cathedral,
I'd been supporting somebody who was giving evidence in a criminal trial.
And the day in court had been very traumatic,
um just really difficult actually.
(06:20):
And so that evening after,
after the evidence had,
had been given and what,
um,
you know,
the day was done as it were.
I just slipped into the pew of a,
of the cathedral in the city where I was and it happened to be even song and the choir were um singing the Magnificat.
And I kind of looked at the service sheet and followed along and it just sort of hit me between the eyes.
(06:45):
Absolutely stunning.
The words of the magnificat where Mary says,
he has brought down the mighty from their Thrones and exalted them of low degree.
And it's just spoke so powerfully to the situation that my friend uh was,
was in.
Um And it,
(07:06):
it,
it sort of made me realize in one moment,
my goodness,
Mary had a voice,
you know,
she had a perspective.
She is sort of defiantly proclaiming truth about who Jesus is and what he's come to do.
And,
and um I think I realized that,
(07:28):
you know,
I,
I'm more from the Protestant tradition and,
you know,
perhaps there's been a fear around elevating Mary too much.
Maybe in the Catholic tradition,
there's a tendency to see Mary in this sort of perpetual almost ethereal role of the new mother with her Cherubic baby,
(07:50):
you know,
stuck and static and silent.
And actually,
Mary had a voice,
she had extraordinary things to say.
Um And I felt I for one,
felt in our cultural moment,
what she has to say is really worth listening to.
And so relevant.
So that began me on a journey.
(08:10):
Um That then basically evolved into,
into this book,
Mary's voice.
Yeah,
it's very interesting what you say.
Um Because Mary isn't traditionally given much of a voice,
we,
we kind of see her playing a part.
I mean,
even in like nativity,
you know,
I mean,
I'm sure many parents listening to this are already scratching around trying to find,
(08:32):
you know,
costumes for the,
the Nativity play at school and that kind of thing.
But Mary doesn't really get to say very much.
She kind of walks up and down and holds a baby but doesn't actually say much at all.
Exactly.
In fact,
in the book,
I,
I sort of share that I once played Mary in a,
in a school Nativity play as a child.
And for the entire play,
(08:54):
I did not utter a word.
You know,
Mary in our representations of her is mute.
So that's why the book is Mary's voice.
It's like the book is not about worshiping Mary or looking too Mary.
It's about listening to her testimony,
her,
witness her voice,
her,
her prophecy,
(09:15):
her magnifica and through listening to her voice,
actually seeing a glimpse of,
of who God in Christ is.
And,
you know,
it's just for me being really fresh and really exciting and um you know,
wonderful preparation for,
for Christmas.
That's,
(09:35):
that's wonderful.
You,
you've mentioned,
you've already mentioned um the Magnific cat,
which is the song that Mary sings.
Um,
after the Angel Gabriel has told her about her pregnancy with Jesus and all of that.
It's like a song of joy and celebration and response to that.
(09:59):
Um Your book does it just kind of unpick and deal with the Magnificat or does it,
I mean,
I know it does do that quite a bit.
Um But are there other areas or,
or ways that you've managed to draw out Mary's voice in particular situations?
So,
um there's AAA few of the days of,
(10:22):
of the devotional are really focused on each line of the Magnificat.
The word Magnificat um comes from magnify.
Mary begins her song with my soul.
Magnifies the Lord.
And the Magnificat is an extraordinary piece of Christian ethical teaching and proclamation and,
(10:43):
you know,
in and of itself,
it is outstanding.
It's the recorded speech of a first century woman that's very rare just in literary terms.
You know,
what we,
what we have is very exciting.
Um But obviously,
for Christians,
it's,
it's very theologically rich because Mary is the primary witness to the incarnation.
It's,
(11:03):
it's through her testimony and witness that we know the doctrine of the incarnation that God became flesh through this virgin conception and birth.
And so,
um listening to Mary's voice inevitably means and entails listening to,
to what she said and her direct speech recorded.
(11:25):
But more broadly than that,
Mary is um one of the primary eyewitnesses that Luke draws on for his gospel in that tradition says that she is his primary source for the gospel.
And so,
um in Mary's voice,
the book,
we explore some of the um unique insights that the gospel of Luke has because of Mary's testimony.
(11:50):
And that includes the encounter with Elizabeth.
It includes her encounter with Simeon and with Anna in the temple.
It includes then also how John's Gospel um positions Mary in a really interesting way as,
as a sort of parallel to Abraham is almost like a kind of second Abraham.
(12:11):
So the theological strands of,
of,
of the gospels showing us who Jesus is,
what theologians would call Christology.
The,
the the theology of who Christ is and what he's come to do is so rich when we,
when we look at it through Mary's perspective and that leads us to worship like she was led to worship.
(12:36):
So the,
the,
the heart of the book is that each day,
you know,
it's we kind of break it down.
So each day there's a theme and a thought and um through this journey,
through advent,
through contemplating,
through listening to Mary's voice where we're kind of drawn back into wonder and to really worship a fresh for some of us who've been Christians for a long time.
(13:02):
You know,
these things are,
you know,
the Christmas story is quite familiar.
So the idea is that this is really rich and fresh and inspiring us to,
to worship and is the fact that Mary is a woman um,
and is playing a leading role in,
in the incarnation.
Did that attract you to write about her more?
(13:25):
Yeah.
Well,
it's interesting,
I think,
um,
you know,
because I'm a female theologian,
perhaps people might have expected that I would have kind of focused my work on some of the key women in the Bible.
And I would say I haven't,
particularly,
in fact,
I've always,
I think shied a little bit away from,
(13:45):
you know,
um wanting to sort of reduce things to kind of women's issues because,
you know,
we're all human,
right?
And women and men can each minister to each other.
Um But as I,
as I really um delved into this,
I think I saw um something really stunning about the fact that this is a woman's perspective.
(14:10):
A,
you know,
women obviously at the time,
the first century ancient world,
you know,
you're talking about Jewish people anyway,
living under occupation.
And then you're talking about a extremely patriarchal layered society,
both the Greek and Roman world,
but also the kind of rabbinic Jewish world that Mary was operating in.
(14:33):
And so for the gospel accounts to centre and position women as they do is really radical and countercultural.
It actually um speaks to the veracity to the truthfulness of the events because if you were making up a story and wanting to kind of recruit people to believe in your new religion or story,
(14:56):
you would never have positioned women as witnesses in the way the gospels do.
And then I began to realize,
wow,
it's not just the incarnation that is witnessed in this way by,
by women,
you know,
obviously,
Mary is the primary witness to the incarnation.
You also see it with the crucifixion narrative.
So in all four gospels,
the male disciples have deserted Jesus.
(15:19):
And it's the women who stand at the foot of the cross.
John is there as the singular male,
but the women's witness to the crucifixion,
um give us the details and the texture of the gospel accounts of,
of what happened when Jesus died.
And in the same way,
of course,
women are first at the empty tomb.
(15:40):
So there,
there's something unique about the Christian faith amongst all other world religions,
amongst the ancient philosophies of,
of the time that centres women and their voices and their capacity to bear witness to the truth.
And um I think that speaks to women and men because all men have a mother and many men have daughters and sisters and uh perhaps a wife or an aunt.
(16:11):
And,
and so we begin to see how radically good and different the Christian faith is by,
you know,
radically including women,
but also um centering women's voices.
So I don't really want this to be a book just for women.
Although,
you know,
it obviously is particularly encouraging and inspirational paths to women who felt silenced by the church or overlooked in some way.
(16:39):
Um,
but I think this,
this is a book for all of us and,
you know,
Mary's voice mattered greatly to Luke,
a man who then wrote the gospel.
So well,
it's,
it's,
it's true,
isn't it?
That,
that,
um,
men can learn from women too?
I mean,
you know,
it is.
Well,
I know,
but it's weird.
It's weird it,
in church circles because sometimes it's like,
(17:00):
well,
you know,
we're gonna,
we're gonna speak about all these men in the Bible and,
you know,
everyone can learn life lessons from them.
But somehow when it comes to some of the women characters,
the female characters,
um it's like,
oh,
well,
this is for the women's ministry.
Well,
no,
because men can actually learn stuff from,
from them as well.
I mean,
I'd go a step further and say if men are not prepared to listen to you and learn from a woman,
(17:26):
then they can't listen to you or learn about the incarnation,
the crucifixion or the resurrection,
the central doctrines of the Christian faith are primarily witness to and taught to us by the witness of,
of women.
And I think that's something loads of people don't know.
(17:46):
It's quite exciting and makes the Christian faith really different.
And,
you know,
lots of layers.
You mentioned something really interesting in the afterword of,
of the book about Mary,
having a leadership position in the early church.
Now I'd never considered this before.
Could you tell us a little bit more about this?
(18:08):
Yeah.
So,
um that's,
that's AAA thought that is sort of developed in the conclusion of the book,
just reflecting on um the evidence from the earliest Christian traditions,
including some of the imagery of Mary,
some of the early Eastern iconography where instead of,
(18:31):
you know,
the eyes down,
holding the baby image,
you have Mary as an older woman with her hands raised in blessing,
which is the posture of,
of leadership and kind of,
you know,
blessing God's people.
And then of course,
in the gospel accounts,
um you have the positioning of names is,
(18:53):
is very important and significant.
And you have,
for example,
Peter is always named first in the list of disciples.
But where you see Mary named even before the 12,
you see um an indicator of the significance of Mary's ongoing leadership role in the church.
And then there are other sources as well from the early church that,
(19:15):
that I refer to that,
that speak of her ongoing role after the death resurrection and ascension of Christ um in continuing as an evangelist and in in pastoral ministry um in,
in the early church.
So,
yeah,
I think it's,
it's helpful for us,
(19:35):
isn't it?
We can with Mary probably uniquely,
unlike with any other biblical character,
we,
we sort of see her or think of her as just stuck in that one moment of her life.
And the few days and weeks after giving birth to a baby,
but she actually grew to be an old woman,
(19:59):
you know,
and there are so many more dimensions to her than only that.
And of course,
that was a very significant time and,
you know,
we need to reflect on that too.
Now,
of course,
your book is helping us to hear Mary's voice within the,
the Christmas or the Nativity story.
Um How can we all do better at helping each other?
(20:21):
Um And women in particular to have a voice in the church?
Well,
it's interesting,
isn't it?
I think um it actually begins by who we're prepared to listen to.
So I think we can,
we can model something by being prepared to listen to and learn from people who are different from us.
(20:44):
And so,
um releasing another person's voice might begin with having a posture of being teachable and being prepared um to listen to them.
I think the second thing is to um I guess to have our expectations of what kind of person um gets to minister to speak to evangelize,
(21:09):
to,
to bear witness.
Um And what,
what's the framework in our mind of what kind of person gets to do that?
And actually,
what we see in Mary is that someone who lived under occupation,
who lived under oppression,
who lived under patriarchy and was female,
who was young,
(21:31):
um who also potentially had the stigma of being pregnant and unmarried,
that was a person that God chose,
that God chose to use and to,
you know,
center in the salvation plan in history.
And I think kind of really grasping that shatters our preconceptions about who gets to be involved,
(21:53):
who,
who gets to participate and hopefully helps us,
you know,
see and identify those around us who,
who have potential to serve and do more and give them opportunity and encouragement to do so.
So,
I hope that even just by listening to Mary's voice,
(22:13):
even by engaging with this book,
um that would be doing something significant in our own hearts,
but that would also have an impact on how we treat others.
Thank you,
Amy.
That's really good.
And we'll be back after these um to chat a little bit more with the author Amy or Ewing about her books,
her life and her Faith Catch Us.
(22:34):
On the other side.
This episode of the Christian book Blur Podcast is sponsored by the Book Wonder An Advent and Christmas collection by Andy March.
It's the most wonderful time of year.
At least that's what the song tells us yet.
(22:55):
All too easily.
The true meaning and impact of Christmas can be lost amongst the busyness of the season in this profound and often humorous collection of reflections,
monologues,
poetry,
sermons,
and sketches.
Andy March invites us whether we are lifelong Christians or new to faith to take a fresh look at this world,
(23:16):
changing story.
And become lost in Wonder.
Once again,
get your copy of Wonder An Advent and Christmas collection from helwellpublishing.co.uk or click on the link in this episode's show notes.
(23:39):
I'm going to be giving away a copy of Amy or Ewing's new book Mary's Voice at the end of November just in time for Advent,
as well as the latest edition of another of Amy's books called Why Trust the Bible.
Both of these books will be given away to one lucky subscriber of my email newsletter.
So if you want to be in for a chance of winning,
(24:01):
click over to my website mattmcchlery.com and subscribe to my newsletter so that you too can get the details of how to enter November's Amy or Ewing giveaway at the end of the month.
Don't miss it.
If you enjoy listening to this podcast,
you can help keep it on the web.
All you've got to do is buy me a coffee head over to buymeacoffee.com/mattmcchlery to make a donation.
(24:28):
There is a link in this episode's show notes.
So go on,
buy me a coffee today and help this podcast to keep supporting Christian books and authors.
Hello,
welcome back to the Christian book blurb.
I am chatting with the author Amy or Ewing about her new book for Advent called Mary's Voice,
(24:50):
Advent Reflections to contemplate the coming of Christ.
Now,
Amy before the break,
we spoke a lot about your book,
some really interesting stuff in there.
So thank you for sharing that with us.
What one of the things we like to do on the podcast is to get to know the author,
um,
a little bit better cos cos you know,
(25:11):
we,
we love reading books that authors write but you know,
who,
who,
who are you as a person?
What,
what do you enjoy doing?
Do you,
do you have,
do you enjoy coffee?
Do you like having it with milk or without,
you know,
that kind of thing?
I love coffee.
Yes.
In fact,
um,
we have a coffee roaster at our,
(25:33):
at our farm.
Um It's called New A and it's run by an amazing guy called Ivan.
He was just um an extraordinary coffee aficionado.
And so I'm drinking a new a coffee here.
I have,
I have a,
a short black with a little bit of hot milk.
That is my prepared.
(25:54):
So you roast your own beans.
That is serious.
I need to be honest that I definitely personally do not raise them,
but I benefit from really amazing,
talented coffee roaster.
Excellent,
excellent.
And what do you do for fun and,
or in your past time,
you know,
in your hobbies or,
(26:15):
you know,
do you go jogging or do you like going for walks or just maybe art galleries because you've got,
you know,
loads of wonderful imagery in your book?
Yeah,
absolutely.
My,
my,
my husband is an amazing artist himself and,
you know,
art history and theology experts.
So we love art and go uh you know,
visit galleries all over the world um and just drinking the um beautiful,
(26:40):
amazing um tradition of,
of art that's accessible to us.
I love walking and being outside.
Um you know,
in creation and I try and walk every day.
I love Pilates,
which um I,
I had a back injury,
um,
a few years ago and just find,
(27:01):
you know,
Pilates really,
really helpful for that.
But also,
you know,
AAA great kind of relaxing.
I've got three Children,
three teenage sons,
so they keep me very busy.
Most of my spare time is probably taken up with watching them play sport.
So,
um,
my youngest is a brilliant cricketer and rugby player.
(27:25):
Um,
my two older,
they're twins,
my two older ones play a lot of tennis and rugby as well.
So,
um,
I'm found at the side of the court pitch,
whatever,
um,
watching them and cheering them on a lot as well.
Coming back to Pilates,
I,
I had a back injury as well and I've started trying,
(27:46):
I'm,
I'm still very,
very begin.
Um,
but do you do it in person or online or what's your preferred?
Um,
yeah.
No,
I do,
I do it in person.
And in fact where I live,
a new reformer studio has just opened where they've got the,
the sort of moving bed machine things as well.
(28:06):
So I just started doing that,
which is great.
It really intensifies the experience.
Yeah.
So I really find it helpful and as we are in this well approaching advent and we're talking about your advent devotional.
Um Do you have any advent traditions in,
(28:27):
in your family or household?
Are there like some special things that you like to do?
I know your kids sound rather grown up now.
It might have been something when they were younger.
I don't know,
how does it look for you.
So,
um we do have various traditions as a family.
My parent,
my dad is German and the German tradition is you have a real tree with real candles.
(28:52):
So I've got the,
yeah.
Um You don't light the candles until Christmas Eve.
Um So we have,
we have the normal fairy lights on the tree as well.
Um But on Christmas Eve,
you light the candles and,
and sing carols and welcome the newborn king,
(29:12):
which is wonderful.
Um We have lots of kind of family gatherings in the build up to Christmas with different sides of our family as well.
Um And actually I have on a,
on a more spiritual note in the last few years.
I've,
I've done a sort of Instagram series um of,
(29:33):
of kind of theological reflections through advent and Mary's voice.
This book is um what emerged from one of them.
So I,
I did a whole year a whole sort of um Instagram series on,
on her and the connection between Mary and Eve and the connection between Mary and different Messianic prophecies.
(29:55):
Um and this book sort of emerged from that.
So,
yeah,
for me,
the process of devotional preparation through December,
um Getting ready for,
for Christmas is really important.
I also work um as a Christian speaker and I do quite a lot of evangelistic Advent Carol services.
(30:18):
So it's often quite a time of intense work as well.
Me and my husband has been a pastor for many years and in church life,
you know,
the build up to Christmas is probably the busiest time until afterwards.
Yeah.
Oh,
that's wonderful.
Thank you,
Amy.
And,
and speaking of your um sort of little Instagram series that you've done in the past over advent,
(30:44):
um Are you looking to do something similar this year or have you got any other projects sort of on the horizon that you can share with us?
Um Well,
this year,
it's all about Mary's voice,
the book and there will be Instagram assets around uh around the book that sort of support the experience of,
of,
of um following the book.
(31:04):
Um Yes,
I've got various other projects.
Um I've just finished my next book,
the manuscript,
which is the book on Christian leadership.
And it's a,
it's a series of letters to the next generation.
You know,
the idea being,
what do I wish I'd known?
25 years ago.
Um,
and that will be coming out next summer,
(31:26):
August September next year.
Oh,
great.
I'll look forward to look forward to reading that one.
Where can people find you on social media?
We've,
we've mentioned Instagram.
Um,
maybe you can let us know sort of what to search for because I,
I know often many people are plagued by impersonators and all that kind of thing.
So,
(31:46):
so what,
what do we search for to actually find the real you on Instagram and have you got websites and where can we buy your books?
All that kind of stuff?
Ok.
Yeah,
thank you so much.
So,
my Instagram is at Amy or Ewing with no hyphen between the A and Ewing and with no letters or numbers afterwards.
So the fake accounts are like at Amy or Ewing one or whatever underscore one.
(32:08):
So my real account is and it's verified.
So,
you know,
it has that little blue tick on it.
Um So you can find me there and on Facebook,
it's um just my name Amy or hyphen Ewing and it's like a public Facebook account and then on Twitter,
I'm at Amy or Ewing as well.
(32:30):
And then my website is www.amyorr-ewing.com
And um that's where people can go to find me to,
you know,
ask me to come and speak or find my blog and other written materials there.
Um And in terms of buying the books.
(32:50):
Um,
the,
all,
all the different book outlets have the book so you can get it from Amazon or from Saint Andrew's Bookshop or wherever you normally get your books from.
I imagine you'd even be able to find it in places like Waterstones or order it into d order it in.
(33:10):
Um,
it'd be great if you could order it in because that would encourage them to,
to have it.
Um,
yeah,
so it's,
it's,
it's been published by Hachette,
which is a really big publisher.
And so it's,
it will be widely available.
And yeah,
thank you for supporting the book and really appreciate it.
(33:32):
And what we'll do for the benefit of our listeners is in the show notes of this episode,
we will put a link to Amy's website in there as well so that all you gotta do is just click through on that link to her website.
Um And then you should be able to find out all sorts of wonderful things that you are looking for.
So there you go.
Do have a click on that and have a look at Amy's books.
(33:55):
I mean,
she has written many,
many books.
Very good,
very thorough,
very thought provoking.
Yeah,
Mary's voice is the the one to be getting at this time of year.
Um So do go ahead and check it out.
Um That just leaves me to say thank you Amy.
Thank you so much for joining us.
It's been wonderful.
(34:15):
Having you on the show.
Also a very big thank you to the sponsor of this episode,
the book Wonder An Advent and Christmas collection by the author Andy March.
Do go and check out his website.
How will publishing dot co dot UK or use the link in the show notes to click over there and see what his book is all about.
(34:36):
Thank you so much for your sponsorship and a very big thank you to you our listeners for joining us um as we start to prepare for Advent and then of course,
Advent starts to prepare us for Christmas.
So,
um yeah,
don't forget this Christian Book Blur podcast comes out twice a month on the first and the 15th.
(34:58):
So we'll be back again really soon where I get to chat with another amazing Christian author about their books,
their Life and their faith.
So do join us again really soon.
Thanks for listening.
Goodbye.
Thanks for listening to Christian Book Blurb with your host,
Matt McChlery.
Do give it a like,
(35:20):
give it a share and let your friends know all about it.
We do hope to see you again soon on another Christian book blurb.
This is Christian book blurb brought to you by author and songwriter Matt McChlery.
Get a behind the scenes glimpse into the lives of some of your favourite Christian authors.
Hear about their books and faith.
Also,
why not check out my website mattmcchlery.com
This episode of Christian book blood podcast is sponsored by the Book Wonder An Advent and Christmas collection by Andy March.
(00:27):
Well,
hello and welcome to this episode of the Christian book Blurb where we like to encourage you in your discipleship.
One book at a time as we meet some amazing Christian authors and learn about their books,
their lives and their faith.
I'm your host,
Matt McChlery.
Thanks for joining me.
Welcome aboard and on today's show,
I'm going to be talking about seeing the Christmas story through Mary's eyes with the author Amy or Ewing.
(00:55):
So welcome to the show,
Amy.
Thank you for joining us.
Thank you for having me.
It's so good to have you with us today.
Now,
um the listeners will,
well,
they might know that this episode has gone out at the very beginning of November.
Um And we're already talking about Christmas.
Oh,
some people might not be too comfortable with that.
(01:17):
But the reason we're doing it is because Amy has written an Advent book.
And what I like to do in November is I dedicate the two episodes of the Christian book blur in November to looking at Advent resources so that you've got time to get to know a bit about them and also maybe buy a copy if you're really interested by what you've heard in time,
(01:42):
time for the Advent season to begin.
And this year that starts in very early December.
So that's why we are starting to talk about Advent Christmas type things now,
so that you can grab the books um so that you can journey with the authors and of course,
with God through Advent itself.
(02:04):
So,
Amy,
please,
can you explain for our listeners who might not be too familiar with the term advent?
What is advent?
Yeah,
sure.
Thank you,
Matt.
So the book is Mary's Voice.
Um Advent Reflections to contemplate the coming of Christ.
And um Advent is just a Latin word that means arrival.
(02:25):
And traditionally Christians have spent the few weeks before Christmas Day,
four weeks before Christmas Day.
Um Reflecting on actually the second coming of Jesus as we prepare for his first coming.
Um But also I think drawing near to Christ,
(02:45):
preparing our hearts for um the celebration of Christmas when obviously we celebrate the incarnation of God.
So the idea of Advent is that you know,
Christmas doesn't just sort of come upon us out of nowhere and we,
we just feel a bit unprepared for all of that celebration,
but it's a spiritual preparation um in our devotional lives in our churches and communities and we sort of progressively journey together towards Christmas.
(03:18):
So that's,
that's the reason.
Um I've written this book,
Mary's Voice is to do exactly that,
to help Christians prepare,
um to,
to really reflect on who Jesus is and to do that by centering Mary's perspective,
who had this obviously amazing front row seat on the events.
(03:41):
And you've mentioned,
you've written this book to help people journey through the Advent Season.
Um Another term for them in the Christian book world is um a devotional.
Um What,
what is the concept behind sort of a devotional style book?
Yeah.
So a devotional style book tends to be a book that um doesn't have kind of traditional chapters.
(04:06):
You know,
it has um like a daily reading that you can read that builds one day upon the other and often for a sort of fixed time,
30 days or in this case,
25 days with a um introduction and conclusion.
Um And with,
with Mary's voice,
the,
the devotional sort of it begins on December the first to make it easier.
(04:29):
Traditionally,
actually Advent is the Fourth Sunday.
It begins the fourth Sunday before Christmas,
but that's quite confusing and the date is different every year.
So I just began on December the first to make this,
this really accessible and easy.
And it would be a daily um a reading from scripture,
a reflection in,
(04:51):
you know,
Mary's voices case.
The reflection is um really kind of drawing out theologically different truths by looking at this through the lens of,
of,
of Mary's voice.
Um And then there would be a prayer um a liturgical prayer.
So prayer that someone else has written that people in church sometimes say historically and those are the prayers I've chosen from lots of different contexts.
(05:18):
So you've got a Bible reading,
um some devotional writing than a prayer that you can pray and then also a piece of art and that is reproduced um to reflect on,
visually,
reflect on,
you know,
what,
what,
what you've read.
Hm.
That,
that's really great.
Thank you,
Amy.
Um Speaking of your book,
(05:39):
Mary's Voice,
um why did you choose to focus your writing on Mary?
So,
um I've been a Christian for a long time.
Um all of my adult life and I work in the field of theology and,
you know,
obviously,
I've,
I've read and studied the Bible a lot.
(06:00):
Um But I realized actually,
when I was um sitting in AAA Cathedral,
I'd been supporting somebody who was giving evidence in a criminal trial.
And the day in court had been very traumatic,
um just really difficult actually.
(06:20):
And so that evening after,
after the evidence had,
had been given and what,
um,
you know,
the day was done as it were.
I just slipped into the pew of a,
of the cathedral in the city where I was and it happened to be even song and the choir were um singing the Magnificat.
And I kind of looked at the service sheet and followed along and it just sort of hit me between the eyes.
(06:45):
Absolutely stunning.
The words of the magnificat where Mary says,
he has brought down the mighty from their Thrones and exalted them of low degree.
And it's just spoke so powerfully to the situation that my friend uh was,
was in.
Um And it,
(07:06):
it,
it sort of made me realize in one moment,
my goodness,
Mary had a voice,
you know,
she had a perspective.
She is sort of defiantly proclaiming truth about who Jesus is and what he's come to do.
And,
and um I think I realized that,
(07:28):
you know,
I,
I'm more from the Protestant tradition and,
you know,
perhaps there's been a fear around elevating Mary too much.
Maybe in the Catholic tradition,
there's a tendency to see Mary in this sort of perpetual almost ethereal role of the new mother with her Cherubic baby,
(07:50):
you know,
stuck and static and silent.
And actually,
Mary had a voice,
she had extraordinary things to say.
Um And I felt I for one,
felt in our cultural moment,
what she has to say is really worth listening to.
And so relevant.
So that began me on a journey.
(08:10):
Um That then basically evolved into,
into this book,
Mary's voice.
Yeah,
it's very interesting what you say.
Um Because Mary isn't traditionally given much of a voice,
we,
we kind of see her playing a part.
I mean,
even in like nativity,
you know,
I mean,
I'm sure many parents listening to this are already scratching around trying to find,
(08:32):
you know,
costumes for the,
the Nativity play at school and that kind of thing.
But Mary doesn't really get to say very much.
She kind of walks up and down and holds a baby but doesn't actually say much at all.
Exactly.
In fact,
in the book,
I,
I sort of share that I once played Mary in a,
in a school Nativity play as a child.
And for the entire play,
(08:54):
I did not utter a word.
You know,
Mary in our representations of her is mute.
So that's why the book is Mary's voice.
It's like the book is not about worshiping Mary or looking too Mary.
It's about listening to her testimony,
her,
witness her voice,
her,
her prophecy,
(09:15):
her magnifica and through listening to her voice,
actually seeing a glimpse of,
of who God in Christ is.
And,
you know,
it's just for me being really fresh and really exciting and um you know,
wonderful preparation for,
for Christmas.
That's,
(09:35):
that's wonderful.
You,
you've mentioned,
you've already mentioned um the Magnific cat,
which is the song that Mary sings.
Um,
after the Angel Gabriel has told her about her pregnancy with Jesus and all of that.
It's like a song of joy and celebration and response to that.
(09:59):
Um Your book does it just kind of unpick and deal with the Magnificat or does it,
I mean,
I know it does do that quite a bit.
Um But are there other areas or,
or ways that you've managed to draw out Mary's voice in particular situations?
So,
um there's AAA few of the days of,
(10:22):
of the devotional are really focused on each line of the Magnificat.
The word Magnificat um comes from magnify.
Mary begins her song with my soul.
Magnifies the Lord.
And the Magnificat is an extraordinary piece of Christian ethical teaching and proclamation and,
(10:43):
you know,
in and of itself,
it is outstanding.
It's the recorded speech of a first century woman that's very rare just in literary terms.
You know,
what we,
what we have is very exciting.
Um But obviously,
for Christians,
it's,
it's very theologically rich because Mary is the primary witness to the incarnation.
It's,
(11:03):
it's through her testimony and witness that we know the doctrine of the incarnation that God became flesh through this virgin conception and birth.
And so,
um listening to Mary's voice inevitably means and entails listening to,
to what she said and her direct speech recorded.
(11:25):
But more broadly than that,
Mary is um one of the primary eyewitnesses that Luke draws on for his gospel in that tradition says that she is his primary source for the gospel.
And so,
um in Mary's voice,
the book,
we explore some of the um unique insights that the gospel of Luke has because of Mary's testimony.
(11:50):
And that includes the encounter with Elizabeth.
It includes her encounter with Simeon and with Anna in the temple.
It includes then also how John's Gospel um positions Mary in a really interesting way as,
as a sort of parallel to Abraham is almost like a kind of second Abraham.
(12:11):
So the theological strands of,
of,
of the gospels showing us who Jesus is,
what theologians would call Christology.
The,
the the theology of who Christ is and what he's come to do is so rich when we,
when we look at it through Mary's perspective and that leads us to worship like she was led to worship.
(12:36):
So the,
the,
the heart of the book is that each day,
you know,
it's we kind of break it down.
So each day there's a theme and a thought and um through this journey,
through advent,
through contemplating,
through listening to Mary's voice where we're kind of drawn back into wonder and to really worship a fresh for some of us who've been Christians for a long time.
(13:02):
You know,
these things are,
you know,
the Christmas story is quite familiar.
So the idea is that this is really rich and fresh and inspiring us to,
to worship and is the fact that Mary is a woman um,
and is playing a leading role in,
in the incarnation.
Did that attract you to write about her more?
(13:25):
Yeah.
Well,
it's interesting,
I think,
um,
you know,
because I'm a female theologian,
perhaps people might have expected that I would have kind of focused my work on some of the key women in the Bible.
And I would say I haven't,
particularly,
in fact,
I've always,
I think shied a little bit away from,
(13:45):
you know,
um wanting to sort of reduce things to kind of women's issues because,
you know,
we're all human,
right?
And women and men can each minister to each other.
Um But as I,
as I really um delved into this,
I think I saw um something really stunning about the fact that this is a woman's perspective.
(14:10):
A,
you know,
women obviously at the time,
the first century ancient world,
you know,
you're talking about Jewish people anyway,
living under occupation.
And then you're talking about a extremely patriarchal layered society,
both the Greek and Roman world,
but also the kind of rabbinic Jewish world that Mary was operating in.
(14:33):
And so for the gospel accounts to centre and position women as they do is really radical and countercultural.
It actually um speaks to the veracity to the truthfulness of the events because if you were making up a story and wanting to kind of recruit people to believe in your new religion or story,
(14:56):
you would never have positioned women as witnesses in the way the gospels do.
And then I began to realize,
wow,
it's not just the incarnation that is witnessed in this way by,
by women,
you know,
obviously,
Mary is the primary witness to the incarnation.
You also see it with the crucifixion narrative.
So in all four gospels,
the male disciples have deserted Jesus.
(15:19):
And it's the women who stand at the foot of the cross.
John is there as the singular male,
but the women's witness to the crucifixion,
um give us the details and the texture of the gospel accounts of,
of what happened when Jesus died.
And in the same way,
of course,
women are first at the empty tomb.
(15:40):
So there,
there's something unique about the Christian faith amongst all other world religions,
amongst the ancient philosophies of,
of the time that centres women and their voices and their capacity to bear witness to the truth.
And um I think that speaks to women and men because all men have a mother and many men have daughters and sisters and uh perhaps a wife or an aunt.
(16:11):
And,
and so we begin to see how radically good and different the Christian faith is by,
you know,
radically including women,
but also um centering women's voices.
So I don't really want this to be a book just for women.
Although,
you know,
it obviously is particularly encouraging and inspirational paths to women who felt silenced by the church or overlooked in some way.
(16:39):
Um,
but I think this,
this is a book for all of us and,
you know,
Mary's voice mattered greatly to Luke,
a man who then wrote the gospel.
So well,
it's,
it's,
it's true,
isn't it?
That,
that,
um,
men can learn from women too?
I mean,
you know,
it is.
Well,
I know,
but it's weird.
It's weird it,
in church circles because sometimes it's like,
(17:00):
well,
you know,
we're gonna,
we're gonna speak about all these men in the Bible and,
you know,
everyone can learn life lessons from them.
But somehow when it comes to some of the women characters,
the female characters,
um it's like,
oh,
well,
this is for the women's ministry.
Well,
no,
because men can actually learn stuff from,
from them as well.
I mean,
I'd go a step further and say if men are not prepared to listen to you and learn from a woman,
(17:26):
then they can't listen to you or learn about the incarnation,
the crucifixion or the resurrection,
the central doctrines of the Christian faith are primarily witness to and taught to us by the witness of,
of women.
And I think that's something loads of people don't know.
(17:46):
It's quite exciting and makes the Christian faith really different.
And,
you know,
lots of layers.
You mentioned something really interesting in the afterword of,
of the book about Mary,
having a leadership position in the early church.
Now I'd never considered this before.
Could you tell us a little bit more about this?
(18:08):
Yeah.
So,
um that's,
that's AAA thought that is sort of developed in the conclusion of the book,
just reflecting on um the evidence from the earliest Christian traditions,
including some of the imagery of Mary,
some of the early Eastern iconography where instead of,
(18:31):
you know,
the eyes down,
holding the baby image,
you have Mary as an older woman with her hands raised in blessing,
which is the posture of,
of leadership and kind of,
you know,
blessing God's people.
And then of course,
in the gospel accounts,
um you have the positioning of names is,
(18:53):
is very important and significant.
And you have,
for example,
Peter is always named first in the list of disciples.
But where you see Mary named even before the 12,
you see um an indicator of the significance of Mary's ongoing leadership role in the church.
And then there are other sources as well from the early church that,
(19:15):
that I refer to that,
that speak of her ongoing role after the death resurrection and ascension of Christ um in continuing as an evangelist and in in pastoral ministry um in,
in the early church.
So,
yeah,
I think it's,
it's helpful for us,
(19:35):
isn't it?
We can with Mary probably uniquely,
unlike with any other biblical character,
we,
we sort of see her or think of her as just stuck in that one moment of her life.
And the few days and weeks after giving birth to a baby,
but she actually grew to be an old woman,
(19:59):
you know,
and there are so many more dimensions to her than only that.
And of course,
that was a very significant time and,
you know,
we need to reflect on that too.
Now,
of course,
your book is helping us to hear Mary's voice within the,
the Christmas or the Nativity story.
Um How can we all do better at helping each other?
(20:21):
Um And women in particular to have a voice in the church?
Well,
it's interesting,
isn't it?
I think um it actually begins by who we're prepared to listen to.
So I think we can,
we can model something by being prepared to listen to and learn from people who are different from us.
(20:44):
And so,
um releasing another person's voice might begin with having a posture of being teachable and being prepared um to listen to them.
I think the second thing is to um I guess to have our expectations of what kind of person um gets to minister to speak to evangelize,
(21:09):
to,
to bear witness.
Um And what,
what's the framework in our mind of what kind of person gets to do that?
And actually,
what we see in Mary is that someone who lived under occupation,
who lived under oppression,
who lived under patriarchy and was female,
who was young,
(21:31):
um who also potentially had the stigma of being pregnant and unmarried,
that was a person that God chose,
that God chose to use and to,
you know,
center in the salvation plan in history.
And I think kind of really grasping that shatters our preconceptions about who gets to be involved,
(21:53):
who,
who gets to participate and hopefully helps us,
you know,
see and identify those around us who,
who have potential to serve and do more and give them opportunity and encouragement to do so.
So,
I hope that even just by listening to Mary's voice,
(22:13):
even by engaging with this book,
um that would be doing something significant in our own hearts,
but that would also have an impact on how we treat others.
Thank you,
Amy.
That's really good.
And we'll be back after these um to chat a little bit more with the author Amy or Ewing about her books,
her life and her Faith Catch Us.
(22:34):
On the other side.
This episode of the Christian book Blur Podcast is sponsored by the Book Wonder An Advent and Christmas collection by Andy March.
It's the most wonderful time of year.
At least that's what the song tells us yet.
(22:55):
All too easily.
The true meaning and impact of Christmas can be lost amongst the busyness of the season in this profound and often humorous collection of reflections,
monologues,
poetry,
sermons,
and sketches.
Andy March invites us whether we are lifelong Christians or new to faith to take a fresh look at this world,
(23:16):
changing story.
And become lost in Wonder.
Once again,
get your copy of Wonder An Advent and Christmas collection from helwellpublishing.co.uk or click on the link in this episode's show notes.
(23:39):
I'm going to be giving away a copy of Amy or Ewing's new book Mary's Voice at the end of November just in time for Advent,
as well as the latest edition of another of Amy's books called Why Trust the Bible.
Both of these books will be given away to one lucky subscriber of my email newsletter.
So if you want to be in for a chance of winning,
(24:01):
click over to my website mattmcchlery.com and subscribe to my newsletter so that you too can get the details of how to enter November's Amy or Ewing giveaway at the end of the month.
Don't miss it.
If you enjoy listening to this podcast,
you can help keep it on the web.
All you've got to do is buy me a coffee head over to buymeacoffee.com/mattmcchlery to make a donation.
(24:28):
There is a link in this episode's show notes.
So go on,
buy me a coffee today and help this podcast to keep supporting Christian books and authors.
Hello,
welcome back to the Christian book blurb.
I am chatting with the author Amy or Ewing about her new book for Advent called Mary's Voice,
(24:50):
Advent Reflections to contemplate the coming of Christ.
Now,
Amy before the break,
we spoke a lot about your book,
some really interesting stuff in there.
So thank you for sharing that with us.
What one of the things we like to do on the podcast is to get to know the author,
um,
a little bit better cos cos you know,
(25:11):
we,
we love reading books that authors write but you know,
who,
who,
who are you as a person?
What,
what do you enjoy doing?
Do you,
do you have,
do you enjoy coffee?
Do you like having it with milk or without,
you know,
that kind of thing?
I love coffee.
Yes.
In fact,
um,
we have a coffee roaster at our,
(25:33):
at our farm.
Um It's called New A and it's run by an amazing guy called Ivan.
He was just um an extraordinary coffee aficionado.
And so I'm drinking a new a coffee here.
I have,
I have a,
a short black with a little bit of hot milk.
That is my prepared.
(25:54):
So you roast your own beans.
That is serious.
I need to be honest that I definitely personally do not raise them,
but I benefit from really amazing,
talented coffee roaster.
Excellent,
excellent.
And what do you do for fun and,
or in your past time,
you know,
in your hobbies or,
(26:15):
you know,
do you go jogging or do you like going for walks or just maybe art galleries because you've got,
you know,
loads of wonderful imagery in your book?
Yeah,
absolutely.
My,
my,
my husband is an amazing artist himself and,
you know,
art history and theology experts.
So we love art and go uh you know,
visit galleries all over the world um and just drinking the um beautiful,
(26:40):
amazing um tradition of,
of art that's accessible to us.
I love walking and being outside.
Um you know,
in creation and I try and walk every day.
I love Pilates,
which um I,
I had a back injury,
um,
a few years ago and just find,
(27:01):
you know,
Pilates really,
really helpful for that.
But also,
you know,
AAA great kind of relaxing.
I've got three Children,
three teenage sons,
so they keep me very busy.
Most of my spare time is probably taken up with watching them play sport.
So,
um,
my youngest is a brilliant cricketer and rugby player.
(27:25):
Um,
my two older,
they're twins,
my two older ones play a lot of tennis and rugby as well.
So,
um,
I'm found at the side of the court pitch,
whatever,
um,
watching them and cheering them on a lot as well.
Coming back to Pilates,
I,
I had a back injury as well and I've started trying,
(27:46):
I'm,
I'm still very,
very begin.
Um,
but do you do it in person or online or what's your preferred?
Um,
yeah.
No,
I do,
I do it in person.
And in fact where I live,
a new reformer studio has just opened where they've got the,
the sort of moving bed machine things as well.
(28:06):
So I just started doing that,
which is great.
It really intensifies the experience.
Yeah.
So I really find it helpful and as we are in this well approaching advent and we're talking about your advent devotional.
Um Do you have any advent traditions in,
(28:27):
in your family or household?
Are there like some special things that you like to do?
I know your kids sound rather grown up now.
It might have been something when they were younger.
I don't know,
how does it look for you.
So,
um we do have various traditions as a family.
My parent,
my dad is German and the German tradition is you have a real tree with real candles.
(28:52):
So I've got the,
yeah.
Um You don't light the candles until Christmas Eve.
Um So we have,
we have the normal fairy lights on the tree as well.
Um But on Christmas Eve,
you light the candles and,
and sing carols and welcome the newborn king,
(29:12):
which is wonderful.
Um We have lots of kind of family gatherings in the build up to Christmas with different sides of our family as well.
Um And actually I have on a,
on a more spiritual note in the last few years.
I've,
I've done a sort of Instagram series um of,
(29:33):
of kind of theological reflections through advent and Mary's voice.
This book is um what emerged from one of them.
So I,
I did a whole year a whole sort of um Instagram series on,
on her and the connection between Mary and Eve and the connection between Mary and different Messianic prophecies.
(29:55):
Um and this book sort of emerged from that.
So,
yeah,
for me,
the process of devotional preparation through December,
um Getting ready for,
for Christmas is really important.
I also work um as a Christian speaker and I do quite a lot of evangelistic Advent Carol services.
(30:18):
So it's often quite a time of intense work as well.
Me and my husband has been a pastor for many years and in church life,
you know,
the build up to Christmas is probably the busiest time until afterwards.
Yeah.
Oh,
that's wonderful.
Thank you,
Amy.
And,
and speaking of your um sort of little Instagram series that you've done in the past over advent,
(30:44):
um Are you looking to do something similar this year or have you got any other projects sort of on the horizon that you can share with us?
Um Well,
this year,
it's all about Mary's voice,
the book and there will be Instagram assets around uh around the book that sort of support the experience of,
of,
of um following the book.
(31:04):
Um Yes,
I've got various other projects.
Um I've just finished my next book,
the manuscript,
which is the book on Christian leadership.
And it's a,
it's a series of letters to the next generation.
You know,
the idea being,
what do I wish I'd known?
25 years ago.
Um,
and that will be coming out next summer,
(31:26):
August September next year.
Oh,
great.
I'll look forward to look forward to reading that one.
Where can people find you on social media?
We've,
we've mentioned Instagram.
Um,
maybe you can let us know sort of what to search for because I,
I know often many people are plagued by impersonators and all that kind of thing.
So,
(31:46):
so what,
what do we search for to actually find the real you on Instagram and have you got websites and where can we buy your books?
All that kind of stuff?
Ok.
Yeah,
thank you so much.
So,
my Instagram is at Amy or Ewing with no hyphen between the A and Ewing and with no letters or numbers afterwards.
So the fake accounts are like at Amy or Ewing one or whatever underscore one.
(32:08):
So my real account is and it's verified.
So,
you know,
it has that little blue tick on it.
Um So you can find me there and on Facebook,
it's um just my name Amy or hyphen Ewing and it's like a public Facebook account and then on Twitter,
I'm at Amy or Ewing as well.
(32:30):
And then my website is www.amyorr-ewing.com
And um that's where people can go to find me to,
you know,
ask me to come and speak or find my blog and other written materials there.
Um And in terms of buying the books.
(32:50):
Um,
the,
all,
all the different book outlets have the book so you can get it from Amazon or from Saint Andrew's Bookshop or wherever you normally get your books from.
I imagine you'd even be able to find it in places like Waterstones or order it into d order it in.
(33:10):
Um,
it'd be great if you could order it in because that would encourage them to,
to have it.
Um,
yeah,
so it's,
it's,
it's been published by Hachette,
which is a really big publisher.
And so it's,
it will be widely available.
And yeah,
thank you for supporting the book and really appreciate it.
(33:32):
And what we'll do for the benefit of our listeners is in the show notes of this episode,
we will put a link to Amy's website in there as well so that all you gotta do is just click through on that link to her website.
Um And then you should be able to find out all sorts of wonderful things that you are looking for.
So there you go.
Do have a click on that and have a look at Amy's books.
(33:55):
I mean,
she has written many,
many books.
Very good,
very thorough,
very thought provoking.
Yeah,
Mary's voice is the the one to be getting at this time of year.
Um So do go ahead and check it out.
Um That just leaves me to say thank you Amy.
Thank you so much for joining us.
It's been wonderful.
(34:15):
Having you on the show.
Also a very big thank you to the sponsor of this episode,
the book Wonder An Advent and Christmas collection by the author Andy March.
Do go and check out his website.
How will publishing dot co dot UK or use the link in the show notes to click over there and see what his book is all about.
(34:36):
Thank you so much for your sponsorship and a very big thank you to you our listeners for joining us um as we start to prepare for Advent and then of course,
Advent starts to prepare us for Christmas.
So,
um yeah,
don't forget this Christian Book Blur podcast comes out twice a month on the first and the 15th.
(34:58):
So we'll be back again really soon where I get to chat with another amazing Christian author about their books,
their Life and their faith.
So do join us again really soon.
Thanks for listening.
Goodbye.
Thanks for listening to Christian Book Blurb with your host,
Matt McChlery.
Do give it a like,
(35:20):
give it a share and let your friends know all about it.
We do hope to see you again soon on another Christian book blurb.
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