December 25, 2023 • 40 mins
A look back at the John McTiernan directed action film Die Hard. Alec and Ben debate whether or not Die Hard really is a Christmas movie. Alec praises Alan Rickman's performance as Hans Gruber and gives some background on the scene involving Ellis. Ben shares his funniest moments from the film as well as why the movie has aged so well. The guys reminisce on their time in Los Angeles in and around Fox Plaza and its location as Nakatomi Plaza in the movie. Ben shares his own film theory surrounding actor Reginald VelJohnson (Sgt. Powell). Alec discusses the career and downfall of John McTiernan. The guys wrap up the discussion on the film as a launching point for Bruce Willis and a film that redefined both the action film and action star.
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Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
These are fun.
Off thecuff discussions on movies and streaming
series, both new and old togetherwill attempt to bridge
the gap between Hollywoodindustry insider and the casual viewer.
This is Alec and I’m Benand you're listening to the Cinema
A to B podcast.
Hey everybody, welcome backto another episode of Cinema Age B.
(00:21):
Today is Christmas Day.
For those of you listening to the podcast,it's not technically today.
We've recorded this ahead of time,but because it's Christmas, we're going
to discuss a potentially Christmas movie
depending on your perspective. 1988
Die Hard, directed by John McTiernanand starring
(00:46):
Bruce Willis and the
late Alan Rickman.
So Alec, kick us off.
So let's start off the podcast with I am
certainly a yippee chi nay
contender.
This isn'tDie Hard is not a Christmas movie.
It just happens to be a moviethat happens around Christmas.
(01:08):
Now, do I watch it every Christmas season?
Yes, like so.
Honestly, I'm probably more on the fenceline.
It's not a Christmas movie,but it does have some.
I can understand why people thinkthis is a Christmas movie.
However, you can put this acrossalmost any major holiday
kind of a situation,and it still will work, right?
(01:30):
There's nothing specificthat has to happen at Christmas. Now,
I if you think this is a Christmas movie,this is great again,
I watch it pretty much every Christmas,you know, Christmas season anyways.
So it has becomekind of like an impromptu.
However, with that aside,with all the hate
mail, I'm going to get onthat of all the yippee gays,
(01:51):
I'm I'm definitely side with the guy namesThat is not a Christmas movie.
How do you talk about this film?
This like this is such a fantastic
eighties like almost the pinnacle eightiesaction flick.
I mean, I would say hands down.
I mean, like,I love Arnold Schwarzenegger.
We both love Arnold Schwarzenegger.
But if I was to pick my favorite eightiesaction flick
(02:14):
is Die Hard Hands down is Die Hard.
I love Predator.
I love Commando.
Like, you know, I love Terminator,but this is hands down.
You know, you want the classeighties action flick is Die hard.
Now I also subscribe to the theory
or the conspiracy theorythat any movie that Bruce Willis is in,
(02:36):
that he has hair is good, and any moviethat he has shaved, his head is bad.
I do subscribe to thatwith one one exception.
I think the movie Red that came out,he does have pretty much
like he's got like a 5:00 shadow so he canmaybe call hair but it's it's pretty.
I really do enjoy that film.Is it a good film?
Probably not,but I really do actually do it.
(02:58):
But I'm not like, he's got hair in this.
It's fantastic.
my goodness.
Where do you even begin with this?
There's so much that John McTiernan doeswell in this film
that he just makes it amazing.
I mean, obviously,Alan Rickman as the villain,
it's oneof his first roles, first film roles.
(03:19):
I think he'd like that.
It's his first filmrole is his first film.
This is his first.
my goodness.
Like I'm from the street, from the stageto die hard and does an amazing job.
I do know that they wrote
in his meeting John McClane
specifically because they overheard himmocking an American accent.
(03:41):
They're like, my goodness. That's.
Yeah, that was really good.
So they said, Nope, we're going tohave you to meet, like, and do that.
So like,that was totally not an impromptu,
obviously, because they filmed it,but more of like a.
Okay, that's great.
We're going to add this into the story,which is silly.
Yeah. Originally
they were going to have the meet,but it was it was sort of different.
It was it was Hans Gruber.
(04:02):
And then I believe it was Theo.
I think we're supposed to be together.
And Theo was hunting for the detonators.
And. And Hans was around, and then.
And McLean was supposed to get him.
And then I think he in the script,he shot,
he shoots like, shoots and kills him.
(04:24):
But they were always strugglingon, like, how
how are they goingto get these two to meet?
And so you're right.
They they overhear.
RICKMAN Somebody was like,can you do an American accent? Was like,
Well, I can't do an American accent,but I can do a California accent.
I didn't know that.
And so
he he does it in the writers on set going,Well, that's amazing.
(04:44):
And so they write this in.
But what what they had to do withthen was when they
when they record the scene where Gruber
kills Takagi, they were like originallythey were going to shoot
that where McClane can seethat what Hans looks like.
And so all they
did was tweak that and make itso that he can't.
(05:04):
His views obscuredwhere he only can see the back of hands.
And so and then we get that iconic scenewhere they meet
and you wonder is
is McClane going to get fooled into
in the hands in the gun and
but yeah incredible iconic performancefrom Rickman I mean this is
I guess I need to mention this is myfavorite action film of all time
(05:28):
not just like for me it's not justthe pinnacle of, of eighties action.
For me, it'ssort of the pinnacle of conventional,
a lot of conventional action.
And because they do a lot of stuff
there, I just don't thinkthey could get away with today.
As far as some of the stuntwork and explosions and things that are
either too too expensive nowor too dangerous to try to pull off now.
(05:52):
And I just think McTiernan is the masterwhen it comes to
turn to action and suspense.
I mean, we've talked aboutwe've you know, the first McTiernan film
we did on the pod was Hunt for Red October
and kind of a master of suspenseand not really an action film.
And then you have thisand then my other favorite
eighties actionthat you already mentioned Predator
(06:15):
and I, I like this a little bitbetter than Predator and I don't
I think it's purely because of Rickmanas Hans Gruber.
And for me it's not Christmas until HansGruber falls from Nakatomi Plaza.
Like it just isn't Sega.
And I could make an argumentwhy I feel like this is a Christmas movie.
If you're willing to sit and listen,let's let's.
(06:37):
Let's hash this out rightnow, since my only my only argument
is and I'm going to ask youand this is not rhetorical
is Home Alone a Christmas movie?
I mean,
my instinct is say, yes,that is a Christmas.
No, it is. Yeah, it's a Christmas. Yes.Yeah, yeah.
And my only argument on why I think DieHard is a Christmas movie is
(07:00):
because I basically think that Home Alone
is a kid's version of Die Hard.
You have Kevin in the house?
Yeah. They're robbers.
Hans GruberAnd the terrorists are robbers.
Mcclane's basically on his own.
Just like. Yeah,
there's a whole.
There's a whole side character that needsin need of redemption in home alone.
(07:21):
It's the old manwho's alienated from his family and dies.
It's Powell.
Sergeant Powell, who shot a kid.
And so for me, and then and then the otherthe big aspect is
that Kevin is alienated from his familyand so's So, okay.
All right.And so is McClane from his wife.
And so for me, it's not just that
(07:43):
it takes place during Christmas,but that the Christmas season is important
for why they're ableto reconcile at the end.
Even though it doesn't lastbecause by Die Hard two or three.
Well two she's up in the planebut by Die Hard three, they've divorced
so it didn't last.
But that's my only argument is that ifyou consider Home Alone Christmas movie,
(08:05):
the die hards not far removed.
They're really similar.
So that's my that's my only argument nowso that I don't really
I don't really care.I mean, I know, I know.
Like I said, we watch thispretty much every Christmas anyways.
So that's probably the best argumentI've actually heard.
Like, you know, a lot of people dragin like the Christmas spirit or, you know,
(08:27):
some of the family stuff.
But I think relating it to Home Aloneas it is very similar, it pretty much
is because honestly speaking, Home Alone,you could almost pick any holiday guy
because it's just the parentsgo away on holiday, they leave the kid
except the scene with Kevin in the churchwith your man.
Yeah.
Yeah that'sthat's any kind of rely on Christmas
(08:47):
being this seasonof like reconciliation and forgiveness and
I'm telling youthat's the only thing that you can hang
your hat on with Diehard is that hehe reconciles with with Holly.
Okay by the end of it.
But you're you're more or less rightI mean it could have
been Halloweenand it still would have been fine.
(09:08):
I will I'll marinate on thisbecause definitely that,
like I said, is the best argument.
I will. I'm not quite yet. Okay.
But I'm definitely closer than I was,you know, then.
And I have been again,
I think at some point I just like to arguewith people that it's not who
who really are hardcore,that this is a Christmas movie
(09:30):
because there's people out therewho take this as like
the bee's knees and,you know, obviously the best.
I mean,it doesn't need to be to be amazing.
No, it's amazing.
Regardless of the answerto that question. Exactly.
So but okay.
All right.
I'm good with that. I'm good with that.
So back to the film. Yes.
And hands down
(09:50):
again, I agree with you,as we do many times material and has a way
with action, has a way with suspense,has a way with storytelling
that just draws you in and bringsyou along for the entire ride.
I mean, this has a lot more actionthan Reno Red October did,
but I feel just as engaged in the storyaspect,
not just waiting for the next explosionthat I wasn't ready October.
(10:13):
There's just as much likenot just as much suspense,
but there's still definitely suspense.
There's definitely kind of pullson my emotions of like
like you said, you know,especially with Alan Rickman of like is,
you know, John McClanegoing to get fooled by by Gruber,
but he doesn't that's a spoiler,obviously, if you haven't seen this movie.
But you know, 88Come on we're coming up on.
(10:34):
Yeah, 40 years.
What's amazing to meis how funny this movie is, too.
Yes, you are like this.
And wow, one of my favorite lines
is by who's the police chief
is I recognize him from mom.
Okay.
So it's I believe he passed away.
(10:55):
Not Paul Gleason.
Paul Gleason. And he did.
He died in sixand he was in the Breakfast Club.
Yes, yes, yes. And he's great.
But one of my favorite lines is when the
the helicopter that's got thethe FBI is flying around
in up on top of the roof and it crashesinto the side of the building.
(11:15):
And he looks up and goes, well,I guess we're going to need some more
FBI guys.
And it's like,
that's this movie's not afraid.
It kind of knows what it is
and it's not afraid to to insertthose really, really funny movie quotes.
And the other the other scene iswith the helicopter and the two
(11:39):
the two FBI guys, it by the way,I think they both have the same name.
Yeah, like it too.
It's I think they're both named
Dick Johnson.
I'm almost you'll have to look it upas I'm looking at right now.
But yeah I am pretty surethey're both have the same name
because they're on the radio.
They're constantly like Johnsonand Johnson.
(12:02):
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And the other, you know,you need the other.
You mean the other JohnsonBut they're floating around in there.
They are Big Johnson and Little Johnsonand I indeed are.
Yes. Their names.
So yes, my other favorite momentis they're flying.
They're flying around.
And the older one is like freakingcowboying it up and going,
(12:23):
Yeah,just just like Norman and the other one,
the younger guys,like I was in middle school, you?
Yeah, that's right.
That's right.
And it's just those moments that
make this a lot of fun on a
repeat viewing because it's not this hyperserious, you know, action film.
(12:43):
It's it is
it is pretty unnerving.
I mean, but when he's giving Takagithe business like that scene,
super intense and
hyper violent, and the whole movie'spretty hyper violent.
Really? Yeah. And me.
Yeah. And McTiernanwas kind of known for that.
The only the only eighties or ninetiesdirector that I can think of
that was likemore violent was Paul Verhoeven.
(13:06):
VerhoevenYeah, yeah. With RoboCop and Total Recall.
Yeah, that was a whole nother level.
McTiernan was quite a bit dialdown from him, but still a brutal movie.
And it kind of follows my rule of a
of baddies that don'tusually go into really long speeches.
I mean, Gruber gave him like a countdownand then it was like,
(13:29):
Okay, all right, Yeah.
And he just the stakes went so much higherafter that moment in this movie.
And I don't rememberthe first time I saw this.
I'm sure I saw some sort of cableedited version of it
as a kid that had a lot of violenceremoved from it.
And F-bombs.
Yeah. yeah, tons. Tons of F-bombs. But
(13:51):
this this thing doesn't pull
any punches as far as the the villainsand how they operate.
And so it just makes you root for McClane
that much more,if those are all his problems.
I always lovekind of going back to quotes.
I absolutely hate the character,but I also love to watch the character,
the guy who plays Aliceor whatever of the, you know,
(14:13):
kind of the friend who's trying to likeback on John Mcclane's wife or whatever.
But supposedly, like
I was reading the story, like when he goesand he's talking to Gruber
and he's like, Fonz movie, you know,supposedly that was completely adlibbed.
And so, like the like the confusion onAlan Rickman's face is actually real.
He's just like,What the heck is happening here?
This is going on.
(14:33):
But like, like I love like,that character's so detestable
but yet worksso well, like, and fits like.
Like there's millions of thosethose guys around who, like,
that's all they care about.
Like, hey, yeah, like I'm a businessman.
I'm going to, you know, I'll talk to you,I'll talk anybody, I'll sell anything.
He's like some coke earlier inside. Yeah.
yeah. This is just this guy's worthless.
(14:54):
But that scene is prettymortifying because, you know,
McTiernan
sews, dies, and the inevitabilityof that scene early with the music,
like, Yeah, and the film's got a reallyconventional score, which a lot of
mctiernan's stuff does.
The scores are almost like elevatedbeyond the genre,
(15:16):
Like they're so much better than whatyou would expect an action
film, especially this erawhere there was a lot of
a lot of filmswere using like synthesizer type stuff.
And so I feel like the movie's agedreally well
because it has a more traditionalorchestral score.
And I would saythe same is true of Predator.
A They age betterbecause the music's not as dated
(15:37):
and orchestral scores never age.
They just don't age out.
Ellis is like, I'm your white knight.
Yeah, well, and the fact that I likealso the factor in that scene
that that even though
McClane hates this guy because you can seehim wanting to go with his wife,
he tries so hard to save his life of like,tell me you don't know me.
(15:57):
Like, like he's
he's upset because he's lost this guy,even though, like, he detests this guy.
Like, that's the character of McClane.
And I mean, I wouldn't say the writing inthis is amazing,
but it's definitely like it's not,you know, it's definitely not bad.
It's like it's it's good writing.
I feel for the characters.
(16:18):
The story moves around.
There's not a lot of expositionkind of building up like like things
move at a clip.I mean, but again, that's not the movie.
It is it's not going to try to build youwith these long speeches and these words
is just trying to get acrosswhat's happening or move to the next beat.
It does it so, so well.
Going back to the music, fun factthis composer did Band of Brothers.
Really? Yeah.
(16:39):
That'sthat's probably why you like it, so.
yeah.
Okay.
So yeah, he was the composer composeryou like and done.
I mean, he's done, he's donea lot of stuff, but Band of Brothers
was one of the Well, again,I'm not going to get into
to a lot of the nitty gritty,but like this thing is based on a novel
(17:01):
that has almost nothingto do with the movie.
Like it's a really weird adaptation.
Like it's not
and I won't go intoI think that's extended
reading for anybody that's interested.
But like Google, Google,the novel that that this is based on and
(17:21):
how it's an adaptation is kind of strange
because nothing lasts forever.
Is is the book which became Die hardand it's
they changed a bunch like it'skind of unrecognizable.
I don't even know how you wouldcall it an adaptation.
And it just I think it I think it takesplace in a high rise and that's about it.
(17:42):
Yeah.
Much which, which the high rise
was 20th century studiosat the time being being built.
So you surpassed that buildingall the time.
Yeah. When like
they shot,they shot some of Norbit on the fox
lot and I used to pass that thingconstantly.
It's, it's unmistakable.
(18:03):
And it's not in downtown L.A.
It's, it's in century City. Yeah.
And it's it's like if it's not the tallestbuilding in Century City, it's close.
It dominates the skyline.
It's kind of unmistakable that it and nowit's just known as Knock the Plaza.
You know what I mean?
I when people come visit, like on our wayto Santa monica, like I'd be like,
(18:25):
stop by Century City,like there's not a ton of plaza.
All right, let's move on. It looks better.
It's not like they change the bunch of itto it, but.
Yeah, well, he was the reasonthey were able to blow that floor.
It was under construction because, like,they had they actually.
And they had to shoot at nightbecause some of the explosions and stuff,
because they actuallyhad a couple of floors
that were being housed by 20th centuryStudio employees or whatever,
(18:47):
like accounting, their financesand like that.
And they were complaining about the noise.
And so like what we're going to do at allnight now have fun,
which makes things more expensive.
much more and tougher.
You know, And if you'reif you're going to do a short film
or something or an indie,don't create a bunch of night exteriors.
It's it's pricy. It's price.
It is to light it.
(19:07):
That's the problem.
And you got it.You're going to make your crew. Yeah.
You got to make your crew workbasically overnight.
It's it's rough.
It's rough.
It's not fun. It's not fun at all.
by the way, I always love
more of
Ben's goofy movie fun movie theories.
Okay.
I always I always like the fact thatthat Reginald Veljohnson that's played
(19:30):
Sergeant Powell in this later later playsCarl in family fantasy
I always I always liked ittreated that he it's the same guy
and he just moves his nameand moved to Chicago.
Yeah you know it's like I don't knowjust to chill out.
Yeah I had been through it.
(19:51):
I can see that. Like, I'm.
I'm okay with that. I'mokay with that theory.
That's not that at all.
I likeI like your your conspiracy theories of,
you know, different film movie worldsand goofy movie connections is what it is.
It's just how can I connect this moviejust because it's got the scene
after going to
buddy play?
I mean, it couldn't have hurt.
He's got all this footage of himin uniform
(20:11):
when he probably went to auditionfor Family Matters.
It's like I've played a cop,I played a cop, and I can do funny, so.
And I can do serious, you know, he can.
I can still do it all. Yeah.
So I love it.
Sly's explainingall the ingredients in a Twinkie.
Yellow five,
everything.
(20:31):
A grown boy needs it.
I mean, you talked about it,but this definitely is a movie
that doesn't take itself too seriously.
Like, obviously it like
it's it's a serious movie, but it is nottrying to be more than what it is.
It knows that it's an action film
and that's what it is.
It's not trying to need somelike super serious overtones.
(20:53):
I mean, it lets the dialog andthe character arcs speak for themselves
and just push it through.
And I think that I mean, that's hats offto the writing staff
and McTiernan of not trying to forcemore than what's needed of
just let's get in, make a good movie,great movie and get out.
Yeah.
And you care about the characterslike the everything's written and directed
(21:14):
properly where you, you, you understandlike where he's coming from.
That MacLaine's marriage is on the rocks.
She's.She's not even using her married name.
She's using her maiden name.
They're like little, little nuggetsthey've sewn into to,
to really sell the,the marital strife, basically.
And so you're like,
this isn't just a regular like visit.
(21:36):
He's, you know, he's refused to relocate.
He's a New York cop and
trying to bridge the gapwith his with his wife.
And then because by the end, it'sterrifying when Hahn's is latched onto
Holly,
dangling from from the top
(21:57):
with every intention to take her with him.
And it wouldn'tthat wouldn't feel that way if you didn't
actually care about that character,those characters by that point.
So his ability to make you root forthese guys is kind of second to none.
And I just that ending shot with
with Gruber in hyper slo moI don't know what frame rate
(22:19):
they're shooting it's it'scranked to the max but
he he kind of he's already hanging
and he and he turns that lookhe gives with a gun before he does lose
his grasp is just one of my favorite
shots in all of moviemaking.
It's just it's his performance.
(22:41):
It's the
the composite worksactually pretty good for the time.
Like it still looks relatively good.
And this thing is kind of lightningin a bottle.
And the sequels were like, pretty good.
And in fact,
With a Vengeance is very good.
Yeah, I would say vengeance is definitelythe second in the series, in my opinion.
(23:03):
Yeah, but diet's newslike not a bad film is not?
It's not.
It's just it was like
this thing was ratcheted up alreadyand so the whole.
Can you top this? Yeah.
It was almost an impossible featto try to better it.
And if I missed if I'm not mistaken,McTiernan didn't even direct die hard to
(23:25):
No, I think I don't think he was.
I mean think he he's interested soand we will know
maybe later we can get into JohnMctiernan's fall from grace and like,
Yeah, what what happened?
What happened with him?
But I'm not really goingto get into that on this.
Yeah, he did.
He did with a vengeance,but he did not do Die Hard two.
(23:45):
Right.
So because I think well I thinkat that point he was doing red October
he had jumped onto to.
That's right because October was 90. Yeah.
Good stuff.
I always forget he did basic.
Yeah he kind of fell off pretty fast.
I mean once want and basic I'mnot mistaken it was basic or rollerball
he had the role of Yeah, Rollerball wasterrible was absolutely basic.
(24:06):
One of those is where he wire
illegally wiretapped a producerto try to get dirt on him.
And that's when the feds swooped in.
And that's all said about it.
It's like he served his time.
I mean, he's not Rollerball.It was Rollerball.
You did it,
right? man.
It sucks, because I do.
I consider this guy
one of the one of the greats when it comesto directing action and suspense.
(24:29):
And he's not got a large
filmography. No, no.
His his highlights are obviously Predatordie Hard on Friday, October,
Die Hard with a Vengeance.
I like Last Action Hero, although I thinkit was made probably ten years too early.
People didn't realize they were watching a
basically a force.
Yeah they didn't understandthat it was poking fun at the genre like,
(24:52):
well, I put it in the moviewhen I was like talking to them,
telling you audiences in 93
just did not understandwhat they just thought
they were watching this goofy moviewith a kid.
They did not realize
how much it was poking at Lethal Weaponand the rest of the genre.
And I'm saying, Yeah,I think it was made ten years too early.
Yeah, because people got real snarky.
(25:12):
By the early 2000,
everybody was
super snarky and like,I think appreciate that movies
kind of improved with ageand you realize what you're watching.
But yeah, I've always really enjoyed it.
But of course, like 93,I was still a child.
So like it was
it was one of the fewArnold Schwarzenegger films
that I was allowed to watchwithout my parents, like fast
forwarding scenes or whatever. So.
(25:35):
But my goodness. All right.
But Back to Die Hard. Yes.
And this is not a John McTiernankind of thing, but
I mean,
for Christmas movie, it's
super interesting and fantastic.
So we stopped by.
Yeah, we shot by a guy named James Bond,and he actually
he shot another great action film,which is speed, too.
(25:57):
Yeah. Which is up there.
So. Well, no, he directed Speed.He didn't shoot.
he directed speed. So. wow. That's a big.Yeah. Yeah.
I think he directed like six films,Speed in Twister.
So he made that.
He made the jump away from cinematography.
Nice.
Well, he's has done two good films
(26:17):
in Red October so he had a partnershipkind of with McTiernan for a while
for a couple of films.
He's probably putting the onesput the microphones in the producer's,
you know didn't see him credited for. No.
Yeah, he'd already he'd already jumped.
Well he hasn't
I think he's retired.
So maybe you've read more about thisbut I've, I've always been told
(26:41):
that the look on Rickman's facewhen he's dropped is real
because they never told himthat when they were going to drop him.
They're just were likethey just basically said, act, act.
And then we'll just drop youwhenever he did.
I saw a video he couldn't rememberand he basically debunked it.
He was just like, I don't remember that.
He's like, it was kind of terrifyingbecause it was way higher
(27:02):
than it was likethe producers thought it would be.
Yeah.
And they were really nervousfor him to do it.
He does rememberthat, that they were like,
We can't believe you're doing thisbecause they were willing
they were basically willingto replace him with
a stuntman for the initial fall.
But I think it was a good
(27:23):
20 or 30 feet.
I was just falls on to like an airbag.
It's high. It's really high.
And there's there's behind the scenephotos of him hanging from the platform
and then the camera's directlyabove on a mount.
It doesn't even look like it was possiblefor anybody to push him or
I think he let go on his own.
I don't know where that started.
(27:45):
It's a funny story.
Yeah, I've told that story before,but it seems to be true.
Untrue?
Yeah.
Based on
especially when I saw the video of himat a book signing or something and he was
not a book
signing with just an interviewand he was asked point blank about that.
He's like, I can't remember that.
Like, he's like, I don't think so.
He's like, It was scary.
(28:06):
But I mean, it's not like they were.
They actually pushed him so well.
And it makes sensebecause the character's hanging.
Yeah, well,I think it was not so much pushed as like,
whatever harness that he was inthat was possible.
And then they just released itwhen he wasn't playing or whatever.
Or maybe he blocked out the trauma.
Yeah, supposedly like he had more dialogor whatever.
Something else is going to happen.
(28:27):
And so instead they're like,This is what I read.
Or what I remember
is that he was supposed to finish themline and instead they released him.
And so he was like, you know, likeI really had that, that, that look. But
again, I mean, I think following that,you know, 20, 30 feet anyways
is going to give you that look no matterwhat, even if you know it's coming.
You know, by the by the way, this is
(28:49):
still on topic,but this is a landmark action film
in that it is the
the delineating line in the sand ofwhen they went
from the big bulked outmuscular action star of the eighties
that was dominated by Schwarzeneggerand Stallone
to the everyman.
(29:11):
This was the this is the one.
Yeah to an extent.
Some of that started with Lethal Weaponas well, I think too, two years earlier.
But this was the onethat really solidified to
to Hollywood that you didn'thave to have the big jacked guy be.
Yeah, you're your action star.
(29:31):
And so,
you know, Stallone and Schwarzeneggerstill carry the mantle for years after.
But this is what ushers in.
This is
you know this is why the Matrix Neo's not
this holdout characteryou got in subsequent action films.
They're not
(29:52):
I mean, you got a whole string of ninetiesfilms that are like The Rock or Con Air
where Nicolas Cage not bulked out at all,You know, Face Off.
I mean, all these like really iconicaction films of the nineties that are not
that styleare not that not that character so right
and so it's an important filmwhen it comes to that that it kind of
(30:13):
it changed the game and allowedfrankly a lot of a whole field of actors
to like take on action parts
that they were frankly kind of deniedin the bulk of the eighties because
if you if you didn't look like Arnoldor Stallone or Jean-Claude Van Damme,
I mean, that's the only reasonthat Jean-Claude Van Damme had a career
(30:35):
is because of
his musculature in the eightiesand because they felt like
that was necessary to sell sell tickets.
And I love that those movies exist.
But yeah, then we kind of transition inand now we're in a time where
I think there's a nice balance becauseit's like it's a it's a guy of like fairly
(30:55):
average height and build, but maybe he'sgot a little more musculature to him.
Like,you know, Daniel Craig's super fit and
Tom Cruise is always in really good shape,
but they're notparticularly big individuals.
I mean,The Rock is almost like a throwback to.
Yeah,The Rock's like basically born too late.
(31:15):
Yeah. When it comes to that.
I mean,but he's able to carve out his own roles
where he's just massive, but he's, he's
a total throwback to basically from 1982,
87, 88.
Well, there's that my goodnessthe what's the movie
that that he one of his first like actionfilms after like the Scorpion King
(31:36):
when he was just getting out of wrestlingor still wrestling but getting out and
but it was stuff like walking tall Nowwalking titles before
Walking Tall is the one with Scott.
I don't know.
The guy from American Pie based Stifflerfor Run rundown The Rundown. Yes.
Which I love. I love that.That's like my favorite.
That's like my favorite DwayneJohnson film.
(31:58):
is down. Yes. Yeah, I completely agree.
But there's that moment where he passesArnold at this club or whatever,
and he says, Have fun.
I'm like, And I like I rememberbeing in the theater going,
Yes, okay, let'slet's get a bunch of the rock movies.
And then he wentand did a bunch of Disney films.
Well, he signed like a three picture dealwith Disney.
And and they were all like the toothfairy.
(32:19):
And, you know,now that may have been smart, because then
now he has a built in audience of peoplewho've grown up with him.
And now he can be that action starand still kind of have a he's
not getting the scripts that Arnold didwere like The Terminator and Total Recall,
and he just not like, Yeah, well,yeah, that's a
I know some of our listenersappreciate the tangents.
Yeah.
(32:39):
So you know this isyeah because discussions.
Ben Well I know, I know and thisand this is kind of
but yeah this,this is an important piece of cinema
because of theway it changed the game. Like
these things evolve.
And my guess is at some pointin the future, it,
(33:00):
all this stuffI believe is cyclical in that it will,
it'll come back around and Hollywood
will want a larger muscled up action star.
I just I believe that because for the era,if you go before Arnold
basically Charlton Heston was kind of that
(33:20):
you've heard it for the era he was
Heston was an enormous individual.
And so you had himand then Clint Eastwood.
And then and then the hand the batongot handed off to Schwarzenegger.
There's not really been
it wasn't really anybodyafter they tried to do the rock
that he was going to carry the mantle.
But he's just more comfortabledoing kind of that
(33:44):
kind of actioncomedy and stuff with more comedy
or being part of the family of FastFurious, The Furious family.
But Bruce Willis,I guess we didn't really talk.
And Bruce Willisis tremendous in this. absolutely. Like,
just fantastic.
I mean, he was doing Moonlighting, too,I think, at the time or that movie.
So like,this was I mean, but he had really done
(34:05):
much in the way of actionbefore, before this, often correctly,
or was it was very light.
But I mean, he had done,I think before this
I can't remember if he did
laws favorite
before this or after this.
Yeah, he hadn't He's going to kill me.
(34:25):
It's funny,he did an episode of Miami Vice
that I didn't realize I need to go back.
And he plays a character named Tony Amato.I need to go back and watch that.
I mean, that's super funnyto see him in that.
No, he
he this is like this is the big one.
This puts him on the map
and he's doing moonlighting.
I remember my parentswatching Moonlighting.
I remember that show.
But yeah, he does do Die Hardand then Die Hard two and then
(34:49):
kind of struggles with some stuff and doesthe last Boy Scout was was pretty good.
Yeah.
But then doesn't do anythinguntil he gets up to Pulp Fiction write.
Pulp Fiction was kind of a
puts it back on resurrectedmore careers than just Travolta.
Okay.
Die Hard Vengeance 12 monkeys Yeah he's
the nineties werewere probably more dominant for him
(35:12):
Yeah he owned the nineties he really didand he did
Hudson Hawk in the nineties whichI mean let's be honest that's number one.
No kidding
Laura loves that filmso if I didn't bring it up somehow
in this conversation that involvedBruce Willis, she was going to murder me.
But on the films in the nineties,my goodness.
Yeah. And he has here in Fifth Element.
I'm telling you, this conspiracy
(35:33):
theory, it's because you havedoes he have hair 12 monkeys.
He does. He does.
Well I mean he is both shaved and has hair
technically and he has hair in the kid so.
Well he has hair and unbreakable.
He has hair in sixth Sense.
I love unbreakable armor.
He I mean, now and granted,he like a lot of those, he's bald,
(35:56):
but then he's just got hair around like,I think this is the
this is the guy that made being involved,like, freaking cool.
Yeah.
Even though even though your story of,like, your theory is saying that
maybe that's not is true.
But yeah, even when that hair was likebe super cross close cropped.
Yes Yeah.
So I think
diehard the original diehard is actuallysome of the longest hair he's had,
(36:19):
you know outside of like specific onesbut he's still using it like Yeah.
yeah. Like he's speaking. Yeah.
But like he does it in whole nine yards.
He has hair, whole ten yards, shavedhead right there, done.
I mean, like, what More proof do you need?
A pretty sound theory, Alex, that's done.
(36:39):
I mean, it's not.
I think you've made your case.
I've jumped on the bandwagon. I have not.
You know,this is the bandwagon to jump on.
Not die hard as a person who bandwagon,which obviously I'm kind of grasping
as I'm being dragged along. But, you know.
definitely.
If he's got hair, it's a good movie.
If it if he shaved, then yeah, Yeah.
Done.
(37:00):
all right, man, I love this movie.
It's crazy, too.
And I agree with you like, it'seven if even if it's not a Christmas movie
for folks like
the fact that it gets
watched aroundthis time of year is actually happy.
Yeah, it does.
It does. It's
why not?
I've even seen the the advent calendarwhere
(37:22):
you can start over a little further down
and I, I don't know whyI have not bought this thing,
although I am like we said, this, thisepisode was recorded before Christmas.
But it's you're listening to iton Christmas or a day later
I am going to make the ornament
where McClane is inside of thethe one year.
(37:45):
And then he like I said,
that's asshole making thatand putting that on my tree as you are.
Sure you showed that scenewhere somebody made a really large one,
like printed the photo of like a lifesized jutting out of the wall.
It was like, it like, hangs on a wall.
Where McClane sitting in there?
Yeah. It's crazed,
(38:07):
you know? Lights up.
that's all right.
My last thought is
McTiernan has something about Bearbut teddy bears on airplanes,
because this is definitelythe second movie,
if not the third or fourth,that he's had that little.
Interesting. Interesting.
Right. Right.
October, he does it. Yes.
You know, Alec Baldwinbrings back a bear on a plane.
(38:29):
It's true. It's like the last shot.
It is.
And it's and this is like the first shot.
So like in tandem kind of consistency.
Is there a Teddy Bear trilogythat we're not
John McTiernan Teddy Bear trilogythat we're not aware of?
Yeah, I'm just now Discovery.
Yeah.
All right, everybody, thanks for listeningto another episode of Safety ATV.
(38:52):
We wish you a merry Christmasand happy holidays.
And we do.
Coming up,we're going to unplug this one. Yes.
Give you the schedule since thisthis one's running the week of Christmas.
We are going to do for our 50th50th episode.
We are going to be live
(39:13):
on YouTube and Facebook
on what do we agree on January 6th,
January 6th at 5 p.m.
Eastern,five Eastern, four Central, January six.
We're going live for episode number 50.
I don't know what we're discussing yet.
We'll figure that out.
Yeah, it'll be it'll be a good one.It'll be a good.
(39:34):
We won't, we won't do somesomething obscure like we will,
we'll make sure that it's, that it'ssomething people are familiar with.
But yeah, I hope you tune into thatand we'll plug that on the social media.
And this is a, this will be the 25th.
So we will take a break next week.
There will not be an episodeon January 1st.
(39:56):
So enjoy the new year and
we will go live on on January 6th
or Central five, Eastern Standard Time.
We will help you out. A merry Christmas.
Thanks, everybody.
These are fun.
Off thecuff discussions on movies and streaming
series, both new and old togetherwill attempt to bridge
the gap between Hollywoodindustry insider and the casual viewer.
This is Alec and I’m Benand you're listening to the Cinema
A to B podcast.
Hey everybody, welcome backto another episode of Cinema Age B.
(00:21):
Today is Christmas Day.
For those of you listening to the podcast,it's not technically today.
We've recorded this ahead of time,but because it's Christmas, we're going
to discuss a potentially Christmas movie
depending on your perspective. 1988
Die Hard, directed by John McTiernanand starring
(00:46):
Bruce Willis and the
late Alan Rickman.
So Alec, kick us off.
So let's start off the podcast with I am
certainly a yippee chi nay
contender.
This isn'tDie Hard is not a Christmas movie.
It just happens to be a moviethat happens around Christmas.
(01:08):
Now, do I watch it every Christmas season?
Yes, like so.
Honestly, I'm probably more on the fenceline.
It's not a Christmas movie,but it does have some.
I can understand why people thinkthis is a Christmas movie.
However, you can put this acrossalmost any major holiday
kind of a situation,and it still will work, right?
(01:30):
There's nothing specificthat has to happen at Christmas. Now,
I if you think this is a Christmas movie,this is great again,
I watch it pretty much every Christmas,you know, Christmas season anyways.
So it has becomekind of like an impromptu.
However, with that aside,with all the hate
mail, I'm going to get onthat of all the yippee gays,
(01:51):
I'm I'm definitely side with the guy namesThat is not a Christmas movie.
How do you talk about this film?
This like this is such a fantastic
eighties like almost the pinnacle eightiesaction flick.
I mean, I would say hands down.
I mean, like,I love Arnold Schwarzenegger.
We both love Arnold Schwarzenegger.
But if I was to pick my favorite eightiesaction flick
(02:14):
is Die Hard Hands down is Die Hard.
I love Predator.
I love Commando.
Like, you know, I love Terminator,but this is hands down.
You know, you want the classeighties action flick is Die hard.
Now I also subscribe to the theory
or the conspiracy theorythat any movie that Bruce Willis is in,
(02:36):
that he has hair is good, and any moviethat he has shaved, his head is bad.
I do subscribe to thatwith one one exception.
I think the movie Red that came out,he does have pretty much
like he's got like a 5:00 shadow so he canmaybe call hair but it's it's pretty.
I really do enjoy that film.Is it a good film?
Probably not,but I really do actually do it.
(02:58):
But I'm not like, he's got hair in this.
It's fantastic.
my goodness.
Where do you even begin with this?
There's so much that John McTiernan doeswell in this film
that he just makes it amazing.
I mean, obviously,Alan Rickman as the villain,
it's oneof his first roles, first film roles.
(03:19):
I think he'd like that.
It's his first filmrole is his first film.
This is his first.
my goodness.
Like I'm from the street, from the stageto die hard and does an amazing job.
I do know that they wrote
in his meeting John McClane
specifically because they overheard himmocking an American accent.
(03:41):
They're like, my goodness. That's.
Yeah, that was really good.
So they said, Nope, we're going tohave you to meet, like, and do that.
So like,that was totally not an impromptu,
obviously, because they filmed it,but more of like a.
Okay, that's great.
We're going to add this into the story,which is silly.
Yeah. Originally
they were going to have the meet,but it was it was sort of different.
It was it was Hans Gruber.
(04:02):
And then I believe it was Theo.
I think we're supposed to be together.
And Theo was hunting for the detonators.
And. And Hans was around, and then.
And McLean was supposed to get him.
And then I think he in the script,he shot,
he shoots like, shoots and kills him.
(04:24):
But they were always strugglingon, like, how
how are they goingto get these two to meet?
And so you're right.
They they overhear.
RICKMAN Somebody was like,can you do an American accent? Was like,
Well, I can't do an American accent,but I can do a California accent.
I didn't know that.
And so
he he does it in the writers on set going,Well, that's amazing.
(04:44):
And so they write this in.
But what what they had to do withthen was when they
when they record the scene where Gruber
kills Takagi, they were like originallythey were going to shoot
that where McClane can seethat what Hans looks like.
And so all they
did was tweak that and make itso that he can't.
(05:04):
His views obscuredwhere he only can see the back of hands.
And so and then we get that iconic scenewhere they meet
and you wonder is
is McClane going to get fooled into
in the hands in the gun and
but yeah incredible iconic performancefrom Rickman I mean this is
I guess I need to mention this is myfavorite action film of all time
(05:28):
not just like for me it's not justthe pinnacle of, of eighties action.
For me, it'ssort of the pinnacle of conventional,
a lot of conventional action.
And because they do a lot of stuff
there, I just don't thinkthey could get away with today.
As far as some of the stuntwork and explosions and things that are
either too too expensive nowor too dangerous to try to pull off now.
(05:52):
And I just think McTiernan is the masterwhen it comes to
turn to action and suspense.
I mean, we've talked aboutwe've you know, the first McTiernan film
we did on the pod was Hunt for Red October
and kind of a master of suspenseand not really an action film.
And then you have thisand then my other favorite
eighties actionthat you already mentioned Predator
(06:15):
and I, I like this a little bitbetter than Predator and I don't
I think it's purely because of Rickmanas Hans Gruber.
And for me it's not Christmas until HansGruber falls from Nakatomi Plaza.
Like it just isn't Sega.
And I could make an argumentwhy I feel like this is a Christmas movie.
If you're willing to sit and listen,let's let's.
(06:37):
Let's hash this out rightnow, since my only my only argument
is and I'm going to ask youand this is not rhetorical
is Home Alone a Christmas movie?
I mean,
my instinct is say, yes,that is a Christmas.
No, it is. Yeah, it's a Christmas. Yes.Yeah, yeah.
And my only argument on why I think DieHard is a Christmas movie is
(07:00):
because I basically think that Home Alone
is a kid's version of Die Hard.
You have Kevin in the house?
Yeah. They're robbers.
Hans GruberAnd the terrorists are robbers.
Mcclane's basically on his own.
Just like. Yeah,
there's a whole.
There's a whole side character that needsin need of redemption in home alone.
(07:21):
It's the old manwho's alienated from his family and dies.
It's Powell.
Sergeant Powell, who shot a kid.
And so for me, and then and then the otherthe big aspect is
that Kevin is alienated from his familyand so's So, okay.
All right.And so is McClane from his wife.
And so for me, it's not just that
(07:43):
it takes place during Christmas,but that the Christmas season is important
for why they're ableto reconcile at the end.
Even though it doesn't lastbecause by Die Hard two or three.
Well two she's up in the planebut by Die Hard three, they've divorced
so it didn't last.
But that's my only argument is that ifyou consider Home Alone Christmas movie,
(08:05):
the die hards not far removed.
They're really similar.
So that's my that's my only argument nowso that I don't really
I don't really care.I mean, I know, I know.
Like I said, we watch thispretty much every Christmas anyways.
So that's probably the best argumentI've actually heard.
Like, you know, a lot of people dragin like the Christmas spirit or, you know,
(08:27):
some of the family stuff.
But I think relating it to Home Aloneas it is very similar, it pretty much
is because honestly speaking, Home Alone,you could almost pick any holiday guy
because it's just the parentsgo away on holiday, they leave the kid
except the scene with Kevin in the churchwith your man.
Yeah.
Yeah that'sthat's any kind of rely on Christmas
(08:47):
being this seasonof like reconciliation and forgiveness and
I'm telling youthat's the only thing that you can hang
your hat on with Diehard is that hehe reconciles with with Holly.
Okay by the end of it.
But you're you're more or less rightI mean it could have
been Halloweenand it still would have been fine.
(09:08):
I will I'll marinate on thisbecause definitely that,
like I said, is the best argument.
I will. I'm not quite yet. Okay.
But I'm definitely closer than I was,you know, then.
And I have been again,
I think at some point I just like to arguewith people that it's not who
who really are hardcore,that this is a Christmas movie
(09:30):
because there's people out therewho take this as like
the bee's knees and,you know, obviously the best.
I mean,it doesn't need to be to be amazing.
No, it's amazing.
Regardless of the answerto that question. Exactly.
So but okay.
All right.
I'm good with that. I'm good with that.
So back to the film. Yes.
And hands down
(09:50):
again, I agree with you,as we do many times material and has a way
with action, has a way with suspense,has a way with storytelling
that just draws you in and bringsyou along for the entire ride.
I mean, this has a lot more actionthan Reno Red October did,
but I feel just as engaged in the storyaspect,
not just waiting for the next explosionthat I wasn't ready October.
(10:13):
There's just as much likenot just as much suspense,
but there's still definitely suspense.
There's definitely kind of pullson my emotions of like
like you said, you know,especially with Alan Rickman of like is,
you know, John McClanegoing to get fooled by by Gruber,
but he doesn't that's a spoiler,obviously, if you haven't seen this movie.
But you know, 88Come on we're coming up on.
(10:34):
Yeah, 40 years.
What's amazing to meis how funny this movie is, too.
Yes, you are like this.
And wow, one of my favorite lines
is by who's the police chief
is I recognize him from mom.
Okay.
So it's I believe he passed away.
(10:55):
Not Paul Gleason.
Paul Gleason. And he did.
He died in sixand he was in the Breakfast Club.
Yes, yes, yes. And he's great.
But one of my favorite lines is when the
the helicopter that's got thethe FBI is flying around
in up on top of the roof and it crashesinto the side of the building.
(11:15):
And he looks up and goes, well,I guess we're going to need some more
FBI guys.
And it's like,
that's this movie's not afraid.
It kind of knows what it is
and it's not afraid to to insertthose really, really funny movie quotes.
And the other the other scene iswith the helicopter and the two
(11:39):
the two FBI guys, it by the way,I think they both have the same name.
Yeah, like it too.
It's I think they're both named
Dick Johnson.
I'm almost you'll have to look it upas I'm looking at right now.
But yeah I am pretty surethey're both have the same name
because they're on the radio.
They're constantly like Johnsonand Johnson.
(12:02):
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And the other, you know,you need the other.
You mean the other JohnsonBut they're floating around in there.
They are Big Johnson and Little Johnsonand I indeed are.
Yes. Their names.
So yes, my other favorite momentis they're flying.
They're flying around.
And the older one is like freakingcowboying it up and going,
(12:23):
Yeah,just just like Norman and the other one,
the younger guys,like I was in middle school, you?
Yeah, that's right.
That's right.
And it's just those moments that
make this a lot of fun on a
repeat viewing because it's not this hyperserious, you know, action film.
(12:43):
It's it is
it is pretty unnerving.
I mean, but when he's giving Takagithe business like that scene,
super intense and
hyper violent, and the whole movie'spretty hyper violent.
Really? Yeah. And me.
Yeah. And McTiernanwas kind of known for that.
The only the only eighties or ninetiesdirector that I can think of
that was likemore violent was Paul Verhoeven.
(13:06):
VerhoevenYeah, yeah. With RoboCop and Total Recall.
Yeah, that was a whole nother level.
McTiernan was quite a bit dialdown from him, but still a brutal movie.
And it kind of follows my rule of a
of baddies that don'tusually go into really long speeches.
I mean, Gruber gave him like a countdownand then it was like,
(13:29):
Okay, all right, Yeah.
And he just the stakes went so much higherafter that moment in this movie.
And I don't rememberthe first time I saw this.
I'm sure I saw some sort of cableedited version of it
as a kid that had a lot of violenceremoved from it.
And F-bombs.
Yeah. yeah, tons. Tons of F-bombs. But
(13:51):
this this thing doesn't pull
any punches as far as the the villainsand how they operate.
And so it just makes you root for McClane
that much more,if those are all his problems.
I always lovekind of going back to quotes.
I absolutely hate the character,but I also love to watch the character,
the guy who plays Aliceor whatever of the, you know,
(14:13):
kind of the friend who's trying to likeback on John Mcclane's wife or whatever.
But supposedly, like
I was reading the story, like when he goesand he's talking to Gruber
and he's like, Fonz movie, you know,supposedly that was completely adlibbed.
And so, like the like the confusion onAlan Rickman's face is actually real.
He's just like,What the heck is happening here?
This is going on.
(14:33):
But like, like I love like,that character's so detestable
but yet worksso well, like, and fits like.
Like there's millions of thosethose guys around who, like,
that's all they care about.
Like, hey, yeah, like I'm a businessman.
I'm going to, you know, I'll talk to you,I'll talk anybody, I'll sell anything.
He's like some coke earlier inside. Yeah.
yeah. This is just this guy's worthless.
(14:54):
But that scene is prettymortifying because, you know,
McTiernan
sews, dies, and the inevitabilityof that scene early with the music,
like, Yeah, and the film's got a reallyconventional score, which a lot of
mctiernan's stuff does.
The scores are almost like elevatedbeyond the genre,
(15:16):
Like they're so much better than whatyou would expect an action
film, especially this erawhere there was a lot of
a lot of filmswere using like synthesizer type stuff.
And so I feel like the movie's agedreally well
because it has a more traditionalorchestral score.
And I would saythe same is true of Predator.
A They age betterbecause the music's not as dated
(15:37):
and orchestral scores never age.
They just don't age out.
Ellis is like, I'm your white knight.
Yeah, well, and the fact that I likealso the factor in that scene
that that even though
McClane hates this guy because you can seehim wanting to go with his wife,
he tries so hard to save his life of like,tell me you don't know me.
(15:57):
Like, like he's
he's upset because he's lost this guy,even though, like, he detests this guy.
Like, that's the character of McClane.
And I mean, I wouldn't say the writing inthis is amazing,
but it's definitely like it's not,you know, it's definitely not bad.
It's like it's it's good writing.
I feel for the characters.
(16:18):
The story moves around.
There's not a lot of expositionkind of building up like like things
move at a clip.I mean, but again, that's not the movie.
It is it's not going to try to build youwith these long speeches and these words
is just trying to get acrosswhat's happening or move to the next beat.
It does it so, so well.
Going back to the music, fun factthis composer did Band of Brothers.
Really? Yeah.
(16:39):
That'sthat's probably why you like it, so.
yeah.
Okay.
So yeah, he was the composer composeryou like and done.
I mean, he's done, he's donea lot of stuff, but Band of Brothers
was one of the Well, again,I'm not going to get into
to a lot of the nitty gritty,but like this thing is based on a novel
(17:01):
that has almost nothingto do with the movie.
Like it's a really weird adaptation.
Like it's not
and I won't go intoI think that's extended
reading for anybody that's interested.
But like Google, Google,the novel that that this is based on and
(17:21):
how it's an adaptation is kind of strange
because nothing lasts forever.
Is is the book which became Die hardand it's
they changed a bunch like it'skind of unrecognizable.
I don't even know how you wouldcall it an adaptation.
And it just I think it I think it takesplace in a high rise and that's about it.
(17:42):
Yeah.
Much which, which the high rise
was 20th century studiosat the time being being built.
So you surpassed that buildingall the time.
Yeah. When like
they shot,they shot some of Norbit on the fox
lot and I used to pass that thingconstantly.
It's, it's unmistakable.
(18:03):
And it's not in downtown L.A.
It's, it's in century City. Yeah.
And it's it's like if it's not the tallestbuilding in Century City, it's close.
It dominates the skyline.
It's kind of unmistakable that it and nowit's just known as Knock the Plaza.
You know what I mean?
I when people come visit, like on our wayto Santa monica, like I'd be like,
(18:25):
stop by Century City,like there's not a ton of plaza.
All right, let's move on. It looks better.
It's not like they change the bunch of itto it, but.
Yeah, well, he was the reasonthey were able to blow that floor.
It was under construction because, like,they had they actually.
And they had to shoot at nightbecause some of the explosions and stuff,
because they actuallyhad a couple of floors
that were being housed by 20th centuryStudio employees or whatever,
(18:47):
like accounting, their financesand like that.
And they were complaining about the noise.
And so like what we're going to do at allnight now have fun,
which makes things more expensive.
much more and tougher.
You know, And if you'reif you're going to do a short film
or something or an indie,don't create a bunch of night exteriors.
It's it's pricy. It's price.
It is to light it.
(19:07):
That's the problem.
And you got it.You're going to make your crew. Yeah.
You got to make your crew workbasically overnight.
It's it's rough.
It's rough.
It's not fun. It's not fun at all.
by the way, I always love
more of
Ben's goofy movie fun movie theories.
Okay.
I always I always like the fact thatthat Reginald Veljohnson that's played
(19:30):
Sergeant Powell in this later later playsCarl in family fantasy
I always I always liked ittreated that he it's the same guy
and he just moves his nameand moved to Chicago.
Yeah you know it's like I don't knowjust to chill out.
Yeah I had been through it.
(19:51):
I can see that. Like, I'm.
I'm okay with that. I'mokay with that theory.
That's not that at all.
I likeI like your your conspiracy theories of,
you know, different film movie worldsand goofy movie connections is what it is.
It's just how can I connect this moviejust because it's got the scene
after going to
buddy play?
I mean, it couldn't have hurt.
He's got all this footage of himin uniform
(20:11):
when he probably went to auditionfor Family Matters.
It's like I've played a cop,I played a cop, and I can do funny, so.
And I can do serious, you know, he can.
I can still do it all. Yeah.
So I love it.
Sly's explainingall the ingredients in a Twinkie.
Yellow five,
everything.
(20:31):
A grown boy needs it.
I mean, you talked about it,but this definitely is a movie
that doesn't take itself too seriously.
Like, obviously it like
it's it's a serious movie, but it is nottrying to be more than what it is.
It knows that it's an action film
and that's what it is.
It's not trying to need somelike super serious overtones.
(20:53):
I mean, it lets the dialog andthe character arcs speak for themselves
and just push it through.
And I think that I mean, that's hats offto the writing staff
and McTiernan of not trying to forcemore than what's needed of
just let's get in, make a good movie,great movie and get out.
Yeah.
And you care about the characterslike the everything's written and directed
(21:14):
properly where you, you, you understandlike where he's coming from.
That MacLaine's marriage is on the rocks.
She's.She's not even using her married name.
She's using her maiden name.
They're like little, little nuggetsthey've sewn into to,
to really sell the,the marital strife, basically.
And so you're like,
this isn't just a regular like visit.
(21:36):
He's, you know, he's refused to relocate.
He's a New York cop and
trying to bridge the gapwith his with his wife.
And then because by the end, it'sterrifying when Hahn's is latched onto
Holly,
dangling from from the top
(21:57):
with every intention to take her with him.
And it wouldn'tthat wouldn't feel that way if you didn't
actually care about that character,those characters by that point.
So his ability to make you root forthese guys is kind of second to none.
And I just that ending shot with
with Gruber in hyper slo moI don't know what frame rate
(22:19):
they're shooting it's it'scranked to the max but
he he kind of he's already hanging
and he and he turns that lookhe gives with a gun before he does lose
his grasp is just one of my favorite
shots in all of moviemaking.
It's just it's his performance.
(22:41):
It's the
the composite worksactually pretty good for the time.
Like it still looks relatively good.
And this thing is kind of lightningin a bottle.
And the sequels were like, pretty good.
And in fact,
With a Vengeance is very good.
Yeah, I would say vengeance is definitelythe second in the series, in my opinion.
(23:03):
Yeah, but diet's newslike not a bad film is not?
It's not.
It's just it was like
this thing was ratcheted up alreadyand so the whole.
Can you top this? Yeah.
It was almost an impossible featto try to better it.
And if I missed if I'm not mistaken,McTiernan didn't even direct die hard to
(23:25):
No, I think I don't think he was.
I mean think he he's interested soand we will know
maybe later we can get into JohnMctiernan's fall from grace and like,
Yeah, what what happened?
What happened with him?
But I'm not really goingto get into that on this.
Yeah, he did.
He did with a vengeance,but he did not do Die Hard two.
(23:45):
Right.
So because I think well I thinkat that point he was doing red October
he had jumped onto to.
That's right because October was 90. Yeah.
Good stuff.
I always forget he did basic.
Yeah he kind of fell off pretty fast.
I mean once want and basic I'mnot mistaken it was basic or rollerball
he had the role of Yeah, Rollerball wasterrible was absolutely basic.
(24:06):
One of those is where he wire
illegally wiretapped a producerto try to get dirt on him.
And that's when the feds swooped in.
And that's all said about it.
It's like he served his time.
I mean, he's not Rollerball.It was Rollerball.
You did it,
right? man.
It sucks, because I do.
I consider this guy
one of the one of the greats when it comesto directing action and suspense.
(24:29):
And he's not got a large
filmography. No, no.
His his highlights are obviously Predatordie Hard on Friday, October,
Die Hard with a Vengeance.
I like Last Action Hero, although I thinkit was made probably ten years too early.
People didn't realize they were watching a
basically a force.
Yeah they didn't understandthat it was poking fun at the genre like,
(24:52):
well, I put it in the moviewhen I was like talking to them,
telling you audiences in 93
just did not understandwhat they just thought
they were watching this goofy moviewith a kid.
They did not realize
how much it was poking at Lethal Weaponand the rest of the genre.
And I'm saying, Yeah,I think it was made ten years too early.
Yeah, because people got real snarky.
(25:12):
By the early 2000,
everybody was
super snarky and like,I think appreciate that movies
kind of improved with ageand you realize what you're watching.
But yeah, I've always really enjoyed it.
But of course, like 93,I was still a child.
So like it was
it was one of the fewArnold Schwarzenegger films
that I was allowed to watchwithout my parents, like fast
forwarding scenes or whatever. So.
(25:35):
But my goodness. All right.
But Back to Die Hard. Yes.
And this is not a John McTiernankind of thing, but
I mean,
for Christmas movie, it's
super interesting and fantastic.
So we stopped by.
Yeah, we shot by a guy named James Bond,and he actually
he shot another great action film,which is speed, too.
(25:57):
Yeah. Which is up there.
So. Well, no, he directed Speed.He didn't shoot.
he directed speed. So. wow. That's a big.Yeah. Yeah.
I think he directed like six films,Speed in Twister.
So he made that.
He made the jump away from cinematography.
Nice.
Well, he's has done two good films
(26:17):
in Red October so he had a partnershipkind of with McTiernan for a while
for a couple of films.
He's probably putting the onesput the microphones in the producer's,
you know didn't see him credited for. No.
Yeah, he'd already he'd already jumped.
Well he hasn't
I think he's retired.
So maybe you've read more about thisbut I've, I've always been told
(26:41):
that the look on Rickman's facewhen he's dropped is real
because they never told himthat when they were going to drop him.
They're just were likethey just basically said, act, act.
And then we'll just drop youwhenever he did.
I saw a video he couldn't rememberand he basically debunked it.
He was just like, I don't remember that.
He's like, it was kind of terrifyingbecause it was way higher
(27:02):
than it was likethe producers thought it would be.
Yeah.
And they were really nervousfor him to do it.
He does rememberthat, that they were like,
We can't believe you're doing thisbecause they were willing
they were basically willingto replace him with
a stuntman for the initial fall.
But I think it was a good
(27:23):
20 or 30 feet.
I was just falls on to like an airbag.
It's high. It's really high.
And there's there's behind the scenephotos of him hanging from the platform
and then the camera's directlyabove on a mount.
It doesn't even look like it was possiblefor anybody to push him or
I think he let go on his own.
I don't know where that started.
(27:45):
It's a funny story.
Yeah, I've told that story before,but it seems to be true.
Untrue?
Yeah.
Based on
especially when I saw the video of himat a book signing or something and he was
not a book
signing with just an interviewand he was asked point blank about that.
He's like, I can't remember that.
Like, he's like, I don't think so.
He's like, It was scary.
(28:06):
But I mean, it's not like they were.
They actually pushed him so well.
And it makes sensebecause the character's hanging.
Yeah, well,I think it was not so much pushed as like,
whatever harness that he was inthat was possible.
And then they just released itwhen he wasn't playing or whatever.
Or maybe he blocked out the trauma.
Yeah, supposedly like he had more dialogor whatever.
Something else is going to happen.
(28:27):
And so instead they're like,This is what I read.
Or what I remember
is that he was supposed to finish themline and instead they released him.
And so he was like, you know, likeI really had that, that, that look. But
again, I mean, I think following that,you know, 20, 30 feet anyways
is going to give you that look no matterwhat, even if you know it's coming.
You know, by the by the way, this is
(28:49):
still on topic,but this is a landmark action film
in that it is the
the delineating line in the sand ofwhen they went
from the big bulked outmuscular action star of the eighties
that was dominated by Schwarzeneggerand Stallone
to the everyman.
(29:11):
This was the this is the one.
Yeah to an extent.
Some of that started with Lethal Weaponas well, I think too, two years earlier.
But this was the onethat really solidified to
to Hollywood that you didn'thave to have the big jacked guy be.
Yeah, you're your action star.
(29:31):
And so,
you know, Stallone and Schwarzeneggerstill carry the mantle for years after.
But this is what ushers in.
This is
you know this is why the Matrix Neo's not
this holdout characteryou got in subsequent action films.
They're not
(29:52):
I mean, you got a whole string of ninetiesfilms that are like The Rock or Con Air
where Nicolas Cage not bulked out at all,You know, Face Off.
I mean, all these like really iconicaction films of the nineties that are not
that styleare not that not that character so right
and so it's an important filmwhen it comes to that that it kind of
(30:13):
it changed the game and allowedfrankly a lot of a whole field of actors
to like take on action parts
that they were frankly kind of deniedin the bulk of the eighties because
if you if you didn't look like Arnoldor Stallone or Jean-Claude Van Damme,
I mean, that's the only reasonthat Jean-Claude Van Damme had a career
(30:35):
is because of
his musculature in the eightiesand because they felt like
that was necessary to sell sell tickets.
And I love that those movies exist.
But yeah, then we kind of transition inand now we're in a time where
I think there's a nice balance becauseit's like it's a it's a guy of like fairly
(30:55):
average height and build, but maybe he'sgot a little more musculature to him.
Like,you know, Daniel Craig's super fit and
Tom Cruise is always in really good shape,
but they're notparticularly big individuals.
I mean,The Rock is almost like a throwback to.
Yeah,The Rock's like basically born too late.
(31:15):
Yeah. When it comes to that.
I mean,but he's able to carve out his own roles
where he's just massive, but he's, he's
a total throwback to basically from 1982,
87, 88.
Well, there's that my goodnessthe what's the movie
that that he one of his first like actionfilms after like the Scorpion King
(31:36):
when he was just getting out of wrestlingor still wrestling but getting out and
but it was stuff like walking tall Nowwalking titles before
Walking Tall is the one with Scott.
I don't know.
The guy from American Pie based Stifflerfor Run rundown The Rundown. Yes.
Which I love. I love that.That's like my favorite.
That's like my favorite DwayneJohnson film.
(31:58):
is down. Yes. Yeah, I completely agree.
But there's that moment where he passesArnold at this club or whatever,
and he says, Have fun.
I'm like, And I like I rememberbeing in the theater going,
Yes, okay, let'slet's get a bunch of the rock movies.
And then he wentand did a bunch of Disney films.
Well, he signed like a three picture dealwith Disney.
And and they were all like the toothfairy.
(32:19):
And, you know,now that may have been smart, because then
now he has a built in audience of peoplewho've grown up with him.
And now he can be that action starand still kind of have a he's
not getting the scripts that Arnold didwere like The Terminator and Total Recall,
and he just not like, Yeah, well,yeah, that's a
I know some of our listenersappreciate the tangents.
Yeah.
(32:39):
So you know this isyeah because discussions.
Ben Well I know, I know and thisand this is kind of
but yeah this,this is an important piece of cinema
because of theway it changed the game. Like
these things evolve.
And my guess is at some pointin the future, it,
(33:00):
all this stuffI believe is cyclical in that it will,
it'll come back around and Hollywood
will want a larger muscled up action star.
I just I believe that because for the era,if you go before Arnold
basically Charlton Heston was kind of that
(33:20):
you've heard it for the era he was
Heston was an enormous individual.
And so you had himand then Clint Eastwood.
And then and then the hand the batongot handed off to Schwarzenegger.
There's not really been
it wasn't really anybodyafter they tried to do the rock
that he was going to carry the mantle.
But he's just more comfortabledoing kind of that
(33:44):
kind of actioncomedy and stuff with more comedy
or being part of the family of FastFurious, The Furious family.
But Bruce Willis,I guess we didn't really talk.
And Bruce Willisis tremendous in this. absolutely. Like,
just fantastic.
I mean, he was doing Moonlighting, too,I think, at the time or that movie.
So like,this was I mean, but he had really done
(34:05):
much in the way of actionbefore, before this, often correctly,
or was it was very light.
But I mean, he had done,I think before this
I can't remember if he did
laws favorite
before this or after this.
Yeah, he hadn't He's going to kill me.
(34:25):
It's funny,he did an episode of Miami Vice
that I didn't realize I need to go back.
And he plays a character named Tony Amato.I need to go back and watch that.
I mean, that's super funnyto see him in that.
No, he
he this is like this is the big one.
This puts him on the map
and he's doing moonlighting.
I remember my parentswatching Moonlighting.
I remember that show.
But yeah, he does do Die Hardand then Die Hard two and then
(34:49):
kind of struggles with some stuff and doesthe last Boy Scout was was pretty good.
Yeah.
But then doesn't do anythinguntil he gets up to Pulp Fiction write.
Pulp Fiction was kind of a
puts it back on resurrectedmore careers than just Travolta.
Okay.
Die Hard Vengeance 12 monkeys Yeah he's
the nineties werewere probably more dominant for him
(35:12):
Yeah he owned the nineties he really didand he did
Hudson Hawk in the nineties whichI mean let's be honest that's number one.
No kidding
Laura loves that filmso if I didn't bring it up somehow
in this conversation that involvedBruce Willis, she was going to murder me.
But on the films in the nineties,my goodness.
Yeah. And he has here in Fifth Element.
I'm telling you, this conspiracy
(35:33):
theory, it's because you havedoes he have hair 12 monkeys.
He does. He does.
Well I mean he is both shaved and has hair
technically and he has hair in the kid so.
Well he has hair and unbreakable.
He has hair in sixth Sense.
I love unbreakable armor.
He I mean, now and granted,he like a lot of those, he's bald,
(35:56):
but then he's just got hair around like,I think this is the
this is the guy that made being involved,like, freaking cool.
Yeah.
Even though even though your story of,like, your theory is saying that
maybe that's not is true.
But yeah, even when that hair was likebe super cross close cropped.
Yes Yeah.
So I think
diehard the original diehard is actuallysome of the longest hair he's had,
(36:19):
you know outside of like specific onesbut he's still using it like Yeah.
yeah. Like he's speaking. Yeah.
But like he does it in whole nine yards.
He has hair, whole ten yards, shavedhead right there, done.
I mean, like, what More proof do you need?
A pretty sound theory, Alex, that's done.
(36:39):
I mean, it's not.
I think you've made your case.
I've jumped on the bandwagon. I have not.
You know,this is the bandwagon to jump on.
Not die hard as a person who bandwagon,which obviously I'm kind of grasping
as I'm being dragged along. But, you know.
definitely.
If he's got hair, it's a good movie.
If it if he shaved, then yeah, Yeah.
Done.
(37:00):
all right, man, I love this movie.
It's crazy, too.
And I agree with you like, it'seven if even if it's not a Christmas movie
for folks like
the fact that it gets
watched aroundthis time of year is actually happy.
Yeah, it does.
It does. It's
why not?
I've even seen the the advent calendarwhere
(37:22):
you can start over a little further down
and I, I don't know whyI have not bought this thing,
although I am like we said, this, thisepisode was recorded before Christmas.
But it's you're listening to iton Christmas or a day later
I am going to make the ornament
where McClane is inside of thethe one year.
(37:45):
And then he like I said,
that's asshole making thatand putting that on my tree as you are.
Sure you showed that scenewhere somebody made a really large one,
like printed the photo of like a lifesized jutting out of the wall.
It was like, it like, hangs on a wall.
Where McClane sitting in there?
Yeah. It's crazed,
(38:07):
you know? Lights up.
that's all right.
My last thought is
McTiernan has something about Bearbut teddy bears on airplanes,
because this is definitelythe second movie,
if not the third or fourth,that he's had that little.
Interesting. Interesting.
Right. Right.
October, he does it. Yes.
You know, Alec Baldwinbrings back a bear on a plane.
(38:29):
It's true. It's like the last shot.
It is.
And it's and this is like the first shot.
So like in tandem kind of consistency.
Is there a Teddy Bear trilogythat we're not
John McTiernan Teddy Bear trilogythat we're not aware of?
Yeah, I'm just now Discovery.
Yeah.
All right, everybody, thanks for listeningto another episode of Safety ATV.
(38:52):
We wish you a merry Christmasand happy holidays.
And we do.
Coming up,we're going to unplug this one. Yes.
Give you the schedule since thisthis one's running the week of Christmas.
We are going to do for our 50th50th episode.
We are going to be live
(39:13):
on YouTube and Facebook
on what do we agree on January 6th,
January 6th at 5 p.m.
Eastern,five Eastern, four Central, January six.
We're going live for episode number 50.
I don't know what we're discussing yet.
We'll figure that out.
Yeah, it'll be it'll be a good one.It'll be a good.
(39:34):
We won't, we won't do somesomething obscure like we will,
we'll make sure that it's, that it'ssomething people are familiar with.
But yeah, I hope you tune into thatand we'll plug that on the social media.
And this is a, this will be the 25th.
So we will take a break next week.
There will not be an episodeon January 1st.
(39:56):
So enjoy the new year and
we will go live on on January 6th
or Central five, Eastern Standard Time.
We will help you out. A merry Christmas.
Thanks, everybody.
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