January 29, 2024 • 40 mins
An in-depth discussion on the 2016 crime-drama film, Hell or High Water, written by Taylor Sheridan (Sicario, Wind River, Yellowstone) and directed by David Mackenzie. Alec explains why he keeps coming back to the film. The guys discuss stand out performances from Chris Pine, Ben Foster, Jeff Bridges and Gil Birmingham. Alec discusses the script and character arcs in the film. Ben lauds the film's cinematography and edit in this modern Western. The conversation closes with a discussion on the writing prowess of Taylor Sheridan and how modern Hollywood has largely abandoned good storytelling.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
These are fun.
Off thecuff discussions on movies and streaming
series, both new and old togetherwill attempt to bridge
the gap between Hollywoodindustry insider and the casual viewer.
This is Alec nine, Benand you're listening to the Cinema:A
to B podcast.
Hey, everybody.
Welcome to another episode of Cinema A
(00:22):
to B where Ben and I get to talk aboutwhatever we really want to talk about,
whatever movie it's happeningand you get to just join along and listen.
So todaywe are going to be talking about 2016
Taylor Sheridan's and I'm going to speakon why I'm saying that.
Hell or high water. Ben, thoughts?
So I just watched this priorto our recording
(00:44):
and I think it's only the second timeI've seen this film.
I enjoyed it immensely the first time.
And it is it's a better it was a betterviewing, which kind of blew me away.
I wasn't expecting that.
I was expecting to feel the same way aboutthis movie that I did the first time.
And no, I think it went up a few notches.
It had been every bit of eight yearssince I'd seen it the first time.
(01:06):
So I think that had to do with mebeing eight years
older and eight yearsof looking at the world differently.
And this may be one of the last
great modern American Westerns,
along with Wind Riverand then Yellowstone.
And what do they all have in common?
(01:27):
Sheridan?
Sheridan I mean, I'd even saySicario is kind of a neo noir
western in a in its own vein.
And to speak on it like I know
this was not directed by Sheridan,Sheridan did direct Wind River.
That was his first.
And so they everyone talks about or noteveryone but like this talked about that
Sheridan has likethis three movie arc of the
(01:52):
American West and it's Sicario.
It's this movie and it's Wind River.
And I say, this movie is TaylorSheridan's,
because this feels very similarto Wind River a lot.
And the director, while he's doneother stuff, is not this is kind of
like the biggest thing he's doneand I can having seen thing
seen episodes of Yellowstonehaving seen other movies
(02:15):
by Taylor Sheridan, by other stuffthat he's done, he's written, created,
this feels like he had his hand in it
the entire way, entire process.
Like, he didn't want to direct,but he definitely
kind of pushed the envelopeand kind of pushed
his narrative how he wanted to be seen,how he wanted to be done kind of a thing.
(02:35):
So and, you know, obviously,I think he was a producer on it as well,
which would obviously make sense.
But this was
well, actually, no, he
was not a producer on this on hellor high water.
I do know, like after Sicario
and this, he really got some acclaimand that's where he's able to start
pitching some of this other stuffthat he was doing.
(02:55):
So I saw this again today. I rewatched it.
I mean, I was I've watchedwe're in the same boat.
This is fresh.
This is fresh.It is anything I think we've discussed.
I will say that I've seen this moviemultiple times.
I adore this movie.
I really like Sicario a lot. I love Danny.
I love Deakins.
I think that movie is absolutely amazinglyshot.
(03:16):
Well, but out of the TaylorSheridan trilogy or any he's really done.
This is my favorite of his.
Just everything about it is great.
It for me, like when I sit downand watch it, it's one of those
I don't say it's a guilty pleasurebecause I don't feel guilty watching it.
And it's not a happy movie.
But there's just something about it.
(03:37):
Like this is on rotationof like or I'm like,
I want to throw something onin the background or just,
you know, I have 20 minutes.I don't like I'm not on the show.
I'm not doing whateverlike what I want to watch.
It's like this The Big Short,
I mean, obviously Oceans is always kind of
in the back burner, but like,
there's a couple of stuffthat's always kind of like I just,
you know, I watch 20 minutes of itand like, I'm happy,
you know, and just there's certain momentsI really enjoy.
(03:58):
And this movie is happensto be one of them that really kind of hits
hits for me.
I probably prefer Wind River.
Okay.
That one's a brutal film.
I mean, that one is more brutalthan. Yes, it is.
It is.
This movie's much better.
The pacing on this film isis it's an easier watch than Wind River.
But I just at first glance,I think I probably would still give
(04:23):
Wind River the night is is my favoriteof kind of all the stuff he's done.
But this feels much more like a classicAmerican Western.
And I know we've had conversationsabout that
genre before where it's like,
everybody's sick of Westernsand it's like, Yeah,
I think people are kind oftired of like the traditional
(04:44):
Western with with horses and cowboys
and yeah, I thinkI think that's kind of been beat to death,
although enough time will passand then it'll kind of come around again.
But specific genre of a Western
in which technically Star Warsa New Hope is a Western,
that genre still works.
(05:07):
And this movie is proof
positive of why that formula isstill is so good.
And I was watching it again.
You know, like you said,you watched it today.
I watched it today as well.
And it wasI was just awestruck watching it going,
yep, He just he's replaced
Ford and Chevy pickup trucks.
(05:28):
These could easilybe guys on horseback and
the Texas Rangers, the Texas Ranger and.
Yeah, and the homestead is the homestead.
And it was pretty wild to watch ita second time through that lens of
and then even the way thatthe cinematographer was framing certain
shots, like on that front porch was like,yeah, I've seen I've seen that shot
(05:51):
a million timesin the great Westerns from the,
the forties, fifties and,and in the sixties.
The film is beautiful and yeah, it is.
And the cinematography is very deliberateand they hold on shots for a while.
There's not a rushto jump into the next setup unless it's
one of the, you know, action sequenceswhich they do very well.
(06:16):
It was, it was a better second viewingand I couldn't believe it because I,
I knew now where everything was headed
and it still was a was a better watch.
So yeah, I think I think this film'sa little bit underrated
when I go on to the movie databaseand see that it's it's a 7.6.
I think this is definitely an eight
(06:37):
to an eight twois probably where I would put it. Yeah.
And yeah,
Shout out to Taylor Sheridan from ChapelHill, North Carolina.
Yeah, at least he was bornthere is his material Doesn't feel like
a guy that grew up in in Carolinabut in chapel
Yeah yeah Chapel Hill
(06:58):
but yeah this guy's got a command of
of what kind of makes a western.
And it's, it'snot merely the trappings of,
of horsebackand it's, it's deeper than that.
It's, it is at its corethis is another film about family.
A family.
(07:19):
So one of the things that I really enjoyabout this film,
from a writing standpoint,from an acting standpoint, is that
I really don't know who to root for.
Like, that's the hardest part is,
you know, like on one like obviouslythe antagonist is Texas Midland Bank
(07:40):
boom done That's the but other than thatlike I don't like
you would think like obviouslywith Chris Pine and Ben Foster
who both do have amazing chemistrytogether the entire time.
And Ben, this is my favoriteBen Foster role of all time, I think.
I think he's actually an very underused,undervalued actor.
(08:01):
But in this, it just shows me because
on thesurface I should dislike his character.
And I he's abrasive, he's egotistical,
He is, you know, just
that guy who I, I hate,
but his love for his brother,his willingness to do whatever for family,
(08:21):
There's just something in the interplaybetween them.
There's just something that draws you inthat you kind of are like,
he's the crazy uncle, you know?
You know he's crazy, but he's family,like, you know, or whatever.
And there's just that kind of bondthat just draws you to it.
But then on the flip side, it'snot like I'm
upset at the Texas Rangers.
(08:44):
Like, it'snot like they're the antagonists.
Like,I want them to win, too, because obviously
they're the good guys trying to stop this,you know, stop,
you know, these things and, you know,people die and things of that sort.
So it's it's
Sheridan really does a fantastic job of
just drawing you into these characters,of making you want to root for them,
even though they're diametrically opposed,they're actually against each other.
(09:08):
And so few movies do that.
Like, I mean, you know, we talk aboutUsual Suspects, like I'm 100%
sided on the criminals and have no
no desire to root for
agent the queen or I forget itever his name, but I think that's great.
But Sheridan just kind of towsthat line of doesn't let you like,
(09:31):
basically you have to decide
if you're rooting for them or notbecause he's going to make them likable.
Yeah, it's morally ambiguous to an extent,
and which is very much more in linewith real life.
And yeah,there's something with these bank
heist filmsbecause the same is true of heat
and then the same is true of
the town as well, which the townthe town predates this by six years.
(09:55):
And they do share some similarities
with kind of a protagoniston the wrong side of the law.
Similarities kind of stop there.
These this film standswell on its own, apart from the town
and apart from franklyhe and it goes beyond the setting.
But to your point,
you know, I notice somethingwith with Ben Foster's character Tanner,
(10:17):
that I never noticed before, andI don't know why I didn't notice it, but
after Bridges kills him up in the hills
and he and he's slumped over,
there's a rattlesnake and his feetand there is.
I don't know why I didn't notice itthe first time, but it was almost like
the laws of nature were upon himand he was going to meet his end.
(10:41):
Either the end of that bullet orthe freaking snake was going to get him.
And I don't know why I missed thatthe first time, but I was like,
well, yeah, yeah.
It's almost like the universe was wastilted towards him and he and he knew it.
And it was just like, No,I'm going to go out in a blaze of glory.
So and everybody's got these limitsthat they'll go to that
(11:02):
they're willing to go to.
And he doesn't really have any.
And then contrast that with Pine'scharacter, Toby
and it was very, very distinct.
And you want to take a wife at all.
But he did set these things into motion.
And so it's like, you're right, it'sthis you're
going to wrestle with the moral questionsthat this movie raises.
(11:25):
And I think that's the power of the film
is that, well, after the credits roll,you're like, Man, yeah, I don't know.
I still think about it.
I mean, to this day,I still I still wonder
in my mindwhat happens in that next meet up between
Chris Pine,
you know, And so it'sone of those of like like
you know what's happening like what's is
(11:47):
I don't want like if you haven't seen itlike I want to spoil too much, but
no, no, no, no, no, no.
I mean it.
Between the films eight years old,we're playing spoiler. Yes.
We're not going to play free on a filmlike, Yeah.
Is Jeff Bridges just going to go thereand they're going to talk?
Or is one of only one of themgoing to walk away,
which is hinted at that is like,he's like, Yeah, I'll give you your piece.
And then Bridges is like, Well,maybe I'll give you your piece.
(12:09):
Yeah.
So that's yeah, So it'sthis is the type of dialog
that I talk about with friendswere like that.
I'm frustrated.
Certain movies, especially someone,you know, some of the recent Star
Wars ones so I'm feeling likethe dialog is just in there
and I don't need dialogto be super serious.
I don't need dialog to be likeit has to be ushering
(12:30):
in something momentous,like a big, big speech.
It just needs to be very poignant,
very purposeful,kind of not just let's throw in words
the use of, but like everythingthat's said in this film,
either has weightor has purpose of why it's been said.
It's not just filler.
And and Sheridan is great
(12:52):
in all the all of his filmsthat he's done this in.
And I really dolike when we ever Wind River a lot it is
I've seen it a couple of times and it's
I mean it's brutalevery single time I see it.
This one is just for mea little bit more rewatchable.
And there's something about,like I said, the interplay between Chris
Pine and Ben Foster is really good of how
(13:15):
Chris Pine is like the
antithesis of Ben, of the of Tobyis the antithesis of Tanner, of like he's
so reserved,so quiet, so, you know, kind of
just take the not to take the worldas it is, but kind of like
he's going to take his beatingsuntil there's a point where Ben Foster,
you know, as Tanner is just the moment,like someone,
(13:36):
you know, throws hands,
he's going to be in the mix with everybodyand going to be like, No, I'm going to
I'm going to punch somebody out myself.
I want to do I'm going to get get mine.
I'm going to take care of this.
And it's just so interestingto see the two of them play off each other
because they do so well,because they do play like brothers, like
it feels so real,like they could actually be brothers
(13:57):
in real life of the waythey're acting to each other.
I mean,
it's likeone of my one of my little scenes
is when they get back inand Ben Foster grabs a beer,
Tanner gets a beer from the refrigeratorand Toby walks in.
He's just like, I don't I need you sober.
And he and Tanner comes back.
He goes, Who gets drunk on beer?
(14:19):
You know? And it's like.
Like this is a conversationthey've had before.
Like, this is stuff that the dialog inthe film is super, super quick and.
And witty. Yeah.
And Bridges interaction with with
Gill is just hysterical.
Yeah.
Unfortunate like they have thatthat funny exchange in the hotel room
(14:39):
where he's just really getting on himmaking you can Indian jokes
and then switching to Mexican jokesand which is just hysterical super
politically incorrect which I loveand it's funny, it's done in a really like
fun manner, but he tells them he's like,You know, when I'm dead and gone,
this is what you're going to likechuckle about.
These are the storiesyou're going to tell about me.
(15:00):
And yeah,unfortunately that just isn't true
because Tanner kills Joe and thatand really
that's the moment where you're like,
Yeah, Tanner has got to go.
Like even is a part of,
even as an unbiased viewer,you're just like, No, his time is up.
Like this guy.
(15:21):
This guy just loves carnage and
no, I, there's another thing that I just,I just noticed
and becauseand I should have recognized it
because it's in my stomping groundsor at least close to home.
My parents are with the old manin the bank who's got the gun.
That's Buck Taylor from Gunsmoke.
So super funny cameos.
(15:43):
And that's Mark Taylor.
And the only reason I knowthat is because a couple of hours
from me, Dodge CityCasino used to run an ad campaign
with Buck Taylor in it,like probably five or six years ago.
And so, yeah, that's that's the old man.
And so, you know, you have like a kingof Westerns in a modern American Western.
(16:03):
And then they askyou, like, you got a gun on you like
you get a rob that tells you,
it's so fun.
The interplaykind of some of these, you know,
these people from West Texas or whatever.
And like when when Jeff Bridgesis talking to the truck driver.
Right, like right near the beginningor whatever he's like
because they don't want to find me,though.
We have to the,
(16:24):
you know, the short end of a long ropeor or there'll be the wrong end of a short
rope or something like that.
And he's just like, well, you know,make it easier for everybody but you.
He goes, yeah, if you can find the tree.
And he's just like, I love,I love West Texas.
He's like, Yeah, it'sjust this like, this fun interplay.
It's so the dialogs really, the actingis fantastic pretty much from everybody.
(16:46):
Fun little fact.
Yeah.
I find it for those people
who don't know, like moviesvery rarely get shot in sequential order
and they're usually all over the placebecause if they're on a location,
they're going to shoot all the scenesat that location, those kind of things.
But so the scene with Chris Pineand Jeff Bridges,
that was Chris Pine's last day
(17:06):
and Jeff Bridges his first day.
So like that, that scenebetween the two of them.
So there was like and that'sthe only scene they they share together.
There's no other scenethey share together.
So it's pretty much like Jeff Bridgesis only in scenes with with
with some of the townspeopleand with with Gill.
You know, very rarely
does he actually even like he'snever technically in the same frame,
(17:26):
even with with Ben Foster'scharacter, Tanner.
And one of the things I think it also doesis because there's not long breaks
in between where you're shootingwith as a person, you can build that bond,
you can kind of maintain that workingrelationship, that friendship.
It's easier to get back into that feelingand build upon it as opposed to like,
(17:47):
Hey, we're shooting together for,you know, a week at this location
and then they're shooting atother locations that one of us is not in.
We don't see each other for,you know, a couple of weeks to a month
and they get back in and it's like, hey,you got to build that back up.
But if you're shooting day after dayor like week after week
kind of consecutively,then it's nice balance of kind of
continuingto build upon your working relationship
(18:09):
and building on that friendship,which then
obviously affects your acting styleand how you can build.
And I think that's one of the main reasonswhy, you know, Jeff Bridges and Gil do
such a great job together
and then obviously why Ben Foster andChris Pine do such a great job together.
I mean, this is
it's just outstanding and
(18:30):
I'll stop with the acting,but it's it's just really good.
No, you know, I kind of want to continuewith the acting because you won't see
Chris Pine deliverthis kind of performance.
More of a was reserved,controlled restraint performance.
You know, what he's asked to doa lot is is be the fast talker and which
(18:51):
he's very good at obviously famouslyor probably best known as is Kirk.
But the other film that he'she did where it's closer to
this is but it's a little moreanimated is unstoppable was with Denzel
and he plays he plays more of a downon his luck character
and not as well but there's more there aremore outbursts from him than this
(19:17):
because even when he's frustratedwith tenor, it's more of just like he's
it's more just like kind of reserved.
It's like he's he's like,talked me into doing this again
or he's like, gone and robbedthis other bank while I'm like, talking
with the waitress,which is just a hysterical turn of events.
Yeah.
(19:37):
And it was really interestingthat they got
Katie mixing to play the waitressbecause she's
I mean, she's a really well known actress.
She had a long standing sitcom,
I think on ABC and has
you know,it's been in, what, four Christmases?
And and then my favoriteis Eastbound and Down.
(20:00):
Yeah, yeah.
She's great.
And so they get her for just a quick rollbut she
she steals the scene obviously
it's like yeah you go take your tip.
I love it.
He tells Bill like,yeah, we should go back there and
get a description and then
and then collect your $2
(20:21):
and these old guys at the, the table.
Yeah, good luck with that.
But it was really interesting though,because none of those guys or her
sold out Pine's character, Toby,like none of them.
I mean, they gave no like,no description of him at all,
which is really interesting.
The only potholeI was trying to find again was like
(20:42):
their friends were all over that,like Ford Bronco,
like that truck,the one that he torched it.
So I was like,Nope, it's not a way that works fine.
So yeah, because that was the only onethat didn't get buried, basically.
BURY Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I mean, it's one of those thingswhere and going back
to the diner people of why
(21:04):
especially like that group were like olderand like three
or four old gentlemenor whatever is when the,
when, you know,
the Texas Rangers come in like thatand Jeff Bridges is talking to them,
he's just like, Yeah, that's the bank
that's been robbed me for the pastlike 20, 30 years.
Or I forget exact line,but it's one of those like there's enough
hate for the bank
(21:25):
and now frustration that they kind ofwant to see it get hurt
and so they're not going to like throwsomeone else on the bus.
And so this is it's it's interestingbalance of like, how far are you willing
to let something get hurtbecause it has hurt you kind of thing.
And so it's this this interesting balance.
So I didn't notice the first viewingas much as the all the billboards
(21:46):
were like with like debt relief or fastcash or and then all the for sale signs.
It just I was I was oblivious to itin the first viewing.
I just and I don't know whyI just was less sensitive to it and
Compared to some other films
where they might be setin, you know, more of a depressed area.
(22:06):
But yeah, that's the major theme is that
these banks have been
and would opens on the first framefor crying out loud
on the side of the Midlands bankis that spray paint of like
you know multiple tours in Iraqbut no bailout for us.
But the film isn't really that preachylike it's there,
(22:28):
but the story is really good,the script is really good.
The bones of this are
solid.
It isn't just a vehicle for a let's fightthe man, Let's get one, pass
the man Like there's more going on there
because this film could easily fellinto that of like
just coming across as more of a shallowkind of preachy anti Wall Street.
(22:53):
I mean, he's going to filmand I mean, Sheridan does this really well
because obviously even his in Wind Riverhe's kind of
has that a very distinct kind of messagehe's trying to get across.
But it never comes across preachy at alleither.
I would even say in Sicario
he has a political message or,you know, really political,
but like a messagethat he's trying to get across.
(23:16):
And it doesn't feel preachy.
It's subtle and it's there. It's present.
Like it's it's not like it's hidden.
It's definitely out there.
But he's not trying to beat youover the head with it.
He's just like,This is what I'm telling the story about.
He could be confusedfor being preachy in this stuff
because Yellowstone's been accused of thesame thing, but I don't think it's there.
You know,I've watched a little bit of that show,
(23:37):
and I think the subtextis certainly there.
But it's it's good storytelling, too.
There's definitely something
he wants to get across,but he still makes his story engaging.
He still puts in good dialog where it'snot beating you over the head of it.
And I'm going to talk about thethe flip side of the coin of where there
you know, you're talking about beating youover the head of it.
It's not great writing, but they're tryingto like just push the message.
(24:00):
The other half of that is we'rejust doing spectacle
that we're just doing how many bullets,explosions,
spaceships, can we fit in to screenand not care about the dialog?
Because, hey, all of this,they're going to be so wowed by this,
they're not going to careabout the dialog.
And that's beensome of my biggest problems with
especially with with with science fictionand some fantasy that's come out,
(24:22):
specifically Star Wars stuff where they'rethey just care about the spectacle.
How great is the CGI
or how cool can we make this shotand less about the characters and dialog?
And so there's like,
it's not that it's difficult, but it is.
It takes effort to make
(24:43):
good dialog, to make good story choices,to make good choices,
and not kind of gothis route of being like, let's
just save ourselves for the spectacleor let's save ourselves for the message.
And but still hit but hit these beatslike you could still have some spectacle,
you can still have your message,
but if you tie it up and vote,you have much better movie,
(25:03):
better TV show than kind ofwhat's coming out most times now.
Yeah, well, and they're the streamers,Disney, they're all going to
they're all going to course correct herewith the money they've been spending.
And so the odds are good that you're goingto start seeing more stuff like this
just because it's it'smore affordable to make.
(25:25):
I mean, they've run out of money,basically, like the Marvel
the Marvel train is slowing down.
And it's it's for a whole host of reasons.
But my guess is we're going to startto get more smaller
filmsthat have been put through the ringer.
And they still you know,they still might have they'll still have
underpinnings of of a political or
(25:49):
some other
messaging, which stuff's always had that.
But it's always been.
Yeah, it's not,you know, but it's always been
second or third or fourthor on down on the list
behind a good story or good or, or,or at least entertaining.
Right.
Like entertainment should be priority one.
(26:09):
And I don't I feel like we're coming outof a window of time where entertainment
has not been necessarilyalways priority one.
And I'm not.
But I'm again, I'm not talking aboutthe top one or 2% of directors or writers.
Those folks get greenlitpretty much whatever they want.
And but I'm talking about beneath that,which encompasses
(26:32):
a lot of network televisionand then some streaming projects as well.
It's the quality is just not there.
But I think they're wrong.I think they're running out of money.
They might not be given another choicethen to do stuff like
like hell or high water.
Well, I just
I just read an articlethat was talking about the fact
that Netflix itself is sayingthat it's changing to focus on quality,
(26:54):
not quantity, which it's obviously it'sbeen producing so much.
It's like,
yeah, I meanI think some of that is probably is,
you know, the majority of thatis exactly what you said.
It's the bottom line is they're realizingthat that if you don't have
those tentpole
TV series or movies,no one's going to care
and they're going to drop youeven though you have hundreds
(27:16):
of shows, hundreds of movies,because they're all trash.
I mean, some people don't care.
Like some people obviously don't careas much as we do about this.
But but anyway, so
hell or high water,they made it for 12 million, by the way.
Wow. yeah.
Do we know how much of whatthe box office was?
Yeah, I did 27 million in the U.S.
and Canada and another 10.9 in some other.
(27:37):
So the worldwide total was 37.9 millionagainst a production budget as well.
Okay.
And it wasn'tit didn't have a heavy marketing campaign.
No. So and the thing obviouslyhas got legs like we're I mean work.
Yeah, this thing is eight years old, butI mean, obviously we're talking about it
today, but this thing's a nice fixtureon streaming platforms.
(27:58):
It's grant or like I say today,I just watched it on Peacock
and I was frustratingly had
it had to subscribe to Peacockbecause my wife's a Kansas City Chiefs fan
and we had to watch the playoff gameyesterday.
Sorry,those of you that are Dolphins fans.
But I checked it
(28:19):
and was like, hell or highwater is on Peacock.
Why don't I own this? I don't know.
And I know we've discussed that before,but like I need to,
I need to course correct myselffor owning physical media.
And this is easily onethat should be in my collection.
There's so much about this, like you talk.
Okay, I'm going to talk a littleabout the cinematography.
And obviously it's West Texas,so it's pretty flat.
(28:41):
It's pretty, very monochromaticin a lot of different ways.
And there's something and correct meif I'm wrong, because obviously
this is not my but it feels likethey've under saturated the colors a lot.
Like not a ton,but definitely doesn't feel
it's not oversaturated.
Everything's feels a littlemuted. It feels a little,
(29:03):
dare I
say it, depressed in the color gamut,but it works.
It's still is visually interesting.
It's still like, yeah, go ahead, turn.
No, If you got another thought on that,I Go ahead.
I know. I'm just curious.
Now, here's what you're excited to see.
I'm going to say yesand no, because, yes, the
the environment is
(29:25):
is got less saturation and is more browns
echoing very much a dust bowl
kind of
feel for very, very good reason.
And then but the skin tones,I think do have good saturation.
Honestly,when I watch this, the the look of it is
(29:47):
the color palette is not unlike thatof no country for old men. Yes.
And so a lot of it is the environment.
It's not just the color. Great.
It's it's the fact that they are shooting
in the middle ofthe country in in Texas. And
yeah, there's not a
lot of greenit's it's a lot of cow pasture
(30:10):
and wheat fields and and ranchesand they're with a lot of browns.
And he does feel appropriately depressed
with that kind of brown color palette.
So I but I think the if I'm not mistaken,this was shot digitally.
I don't think this was shot on film.
And it's only a2k for all you 4K snobs.
(30:32):
The the eerie role was like 2.8 K,and then it was digitally mastered at two.
Okay, so resolution is okay,
is not the end all be all it is
dynamic range and color informationand their resolution
falls so far down the listof what makes a great image.
It's not even funny.
(30:52):
Like this whole 4K obsession is just Ben,I want my AK.
Come on, man.
See the difference? It's like real life.
You want to.
Except you haven't and haven't doneyour is a frontier AK television. Just
no, because you don't have enoughlike what
receptors in your your eyes for AKlike when you have like No, not really no.
(31:15):
Well because they're split in the thirdsbecause it's like you have
what, red, green, blue and you haveand you're you have less.
I think less less cones and pixels
for AK and like even in 4K,like each one of those pixels
can be all those colors where your eyecan only like has thirds of everyone.
So like again, it's when people were like,
my goodness, I can see like, no,you probably can't anyway.
(31:37):
In fact, yeah,like I was researching projectors again.
Nothing's wrong with my projector.
It's fine.
It's fine.
It's like a it's a businessprojector marketed as a home entertainment
projector.
So, like, the contrast isand is good on it, but you've seen it.
The image is still so good.It's HD. That's great.
And I'm looking at these 4K projectors,but then there's there's another Ben cue
(32:00):
that's HD,but it's got an LED light source
that lasts like way longer than lightthe life of the projector.
And then the contrast onit is like 50, 60000 to 1
and the black levels are true black.
And so I go and research itand they basically said, yeah, there's no
this projectors $1,000
(32:21):
and thereis no 4K projector that has black levels
that does what this doesuntil like four grand.
Yeah. So it's like, yeah,
if I upgrade it,I'll probably just stay with HD.
So now there was a super crazy tangent,a high resolution engine on it.
So I mean resolution definitely actually,you know, does help in some regard.
(32:42):
You know, obviouslystandard DEF two to normal HD is huge.
I would say thatthere is visually some stuff to 4K,
but it just starts to peter out of,like you said, of what matters of
what makes you see what is a good image.
But going back, this is a beautiful filmand it's in that two, three,
five widescreenand in the framing is just exquisite
(33:05):
from from the first frame to the last.
It's perfect.
It is textbook on how to frame for
for ultra well it's not even ultra wide.
The wider screen format. Yeah.
The way he fills the frame
is perfect every time.
It doesn't really do anything crazy.
(33:28):
Like there's not,there's not really any camera movements
that are like,I haven't really seen that before,
but don't mistake that for like a paintby numbers.
It's high level cinematography,the the lighting, the framing,
and then the edit just goesthe editing in invisible edit,
which is which for me means that the edit
(33:49):
is like completely on pointbecause I don't really notice it.
And, and I do. I think it's underrated.
highly, highly underrated.
It's I really, really enjoy this filma lot.
And again, not because it's a happy movie
because there's, it'sone of those things that I
when I see something really good,I just want to continue to consume it
and find new things or see new thingsor just revisit some of those
(34:13):
those moments like the wholewhen Tanners of the casino
the first time and he's playing pokerand he has that kind of run
in with the Comancheand that whole kind of discussion,
that dialogthere is so great like it, it feels
it has so much weight.
But my one of my favorite thingsis they bring it back at the end
(34:36):
right before he dies, where he just goes,
Lord of the Plains, you know,
And it's like it's, it's
these characters have arcs and it's hugeof like these characters do move forward.
They get changed bywhat happens in the film, you know,
or realize their potential realize,I mean, in for,
(34:57):
you know, Tannerthat was look at me run from the law,
you know, not getting caught,you know, kind of kind of situation.
He yeah, he just seemed to innately knowthat his thirst
for not following the law wouldultimately catch up with him.
And he and then when he knew thatthat could save his brother,
(35:17):
he jumped at the chance.
It's as much redemptionas that character was going to have.
Was leading everybody on a wild goosechase away from pine.
But yeah, I agree with you.
I think Foster is definitely
there's a theme here of being underrated.
And I always have felt that Ben Foster'sis one of the more underrated actors
in in Hollywood.
(35:38):
I don't know that he can carry a film on.
Nobody's really seems to have given himthat pure opportunity
to do so, but he steals the scenebasically in everything he's in.
I mean, it's a good movie,but Lone Survivor,
he just runs circles around Mark Wahlbergas an actor.
Like it just runs circles around him.
And I don't I don't hate Mark Wahlberg.
(35:59):
And Wahlberg is not a bad actor, but
fostersit constantly operating on another level.
Now, Pine matched his performance.
Like Pine really brought it, and
so I give him a lot of credit.
And then bridges like Bridgesgives you that like different kind of
speech pattern in thisthat's so much different
(36:21):
from everything he's and that he does feela different a different individual.
You know Gil is in Yellowstone, so.
SheridanYes. Brought him brought him back.
And he actually is Comanche.
Yeah. Yeah. For real.
So after this, the directordid Outlaw King, which I haven't seen yet.
(36:43):
And Chris Pine's.
I've seen that. So. Yeah.
okay. Yeah.
It's good to know. It's okay.
It's.
It's.
It's all right This is the quick,the quick in in review review.
You know, this is like a mexico city.
It's it's all right.
This happens a lot when we talk.
Yeah, it's okay. It's okay. I,
(37:05):
I think it's worth getting.
I think it's worth a watch.
There's potential there.
All right, Well, well, well, well, well.
Bypass, too.
because wasn'tthat was the Netflix I felt like.
Yeah. I think it was askingwas that Fox. Yeah. Yeah.
I always got that oneconfused with the king for a while.
(37:26):
which is okay.
Which is fantastic.
You know, Albert King is not the king now.
The king. It's not. No.
And for those of you listening,they don't know what we're talking about.
The king is TimothyShalom on Netflix as well.
And we the also Joel Edgerton,Joel Anderton.
Like basically it was his pet project.
(37:46):
Yeah.
And that is worth a watch.
And it has. my goodness.
His name escapes me.
Played Batman in the most recent Batman
in Twilight and in.
Yeah, yeah.
Well, there's a nice there's a nicelike a scene stealing scene.
Yeah, Yeah.
No, we just we could just.
We could discuss the king at some point.
But we will. We won't.
We won't do our thing anyways,so I guess we can talk.
(38:09):
You know, Anything else for hell or highwater that you want an alien or something?
That. No.
And I think for listenersthat haven't seen this, you know,
we spoiled everything, but
I can't apologize for thatbecause again, this
this thing's been around almost a decade,if you like other Taylor Sheridan stuff,
if you like Yellowstone or 1883 or 1923
(38:32):
or 1757 or, you know, 965, I don't know.
He's got so many now, these offshoots.
I mean, they print money for you.
Taylor I'm I mean, it's amazing whenyou can generate your own work like this
and you don't have to waitfor the phone call
except forexcept for a phone call from the studio
that wants to, like, greenlightyour project.
(38:55):
That's a good position to be in.
And this guy paid his dues.
This guy's been around for a long time.
He's had those mentorsand obviously it shows.
The only thing is,is the kind of fun fact.
He was an actor for a whilebefore he was a writer and he he is the
cowhand on the on the horse.
Yes. They and this these like you say.
(39:15):
What do you say is it's 21st centuryand I'm I'm like running away from a fire
like across I run into a runningwater for, you know, away from a fire.
It's like no wondermy kids don't want to do what I do.
Yeah,it was this perfect microcosm of, like,
a dying way of life.
Well, that was 2016 again.
Taylor Sheridan's hell or High water.
(39:37):
Well,we we appreciate everybody listening to.
Another episode.
We will we will join you all next week
with something else out of the bag
that I don't really know at this pointwhat it'll be
because we justwe record and then and then we just get to
pick the release order and it's not alwaysthe order that we've recorded them in.
(39:58):
So I can't really tellyou always will be next week.
But we appreciate everybodylistening for sure.
Yes, you. Thanks, everybody.
These are fun.
Off thecuff discussions on movies and streaming
series, both new and old togetherwill attempt to bridge
the gap between Hollywoodindustry insider and the casual viewer.
This is Alec nine, Benand you're listening to the Cinema:A
to B podcast.
Hey, everybody.
Welcome to another episode of Cinema A
(00:22):
to B where Ben and I get to talk aboutwhatever we really want to talk about,
whatever movie it's happeningand you get to just join along and listen.
So todaywe are going to be talking about 2016
Taylor Sheridan's and I'm going to speakon why I'm saying that.
Hell or high water. Ben, thoughts?
So I just watched this priorto our recording
(00:44):
and I think it's only the second timeI've seen this film.
I enjoyed it immensely the first time.
And it is it's a better it was a betterviewing, which kind of blew me away.
I wasn't expecting that.
I was expecting to feel the same way aboutthis movie that I did the first time.
And no, I think it went up a few notches.
It had been every bit of eight yearssince I'd seen it the first time.
(01:06):
So I think that had to do with mebeing eight years
older and eight yearsof looking at the world differently.
And this may be one of the last
great modern American Westerns,
along with Wind Riverand then Yellowstone.
And what do they all have in common?
(01:27):
Sheridan?
Sheridan I mean, I'd even saySicario is kind of a neo noir
western in a in its own vein.
And to speak on it like I know
this was not directed by Sheridan,Sheridan did direct Wind River.
That was his first.
And so they everyone talks about or noteveryone but like this talked about that
Sheridan has likethis three movie arc of the
(01:52):
American West and it's Sicario.
It's this movie and it's Wind River.
And I say, this movie is TaylorSheridan's,
because this feels very similarto Wind River a lot.
And the director, while he's doneother stuff, is not this is kind of
like the biggest thing he's doneand I can having seen thing
seen episodes of Yellowstonehaving seen other movies
(02:15):
by Taylor Sheridan, by other stuffthat he's done, he's written, created,
this feels like he had his hand in it
the entire way, entire process.
Like, he didn't want to direct,but he definitely
kind of pushed the envelopeand kind of pushed
his narrative how he wanted to be seen,how he wanted to be done kind of a thing.
(02:35):
So and, you know, obviously,I think he was a producer on it as well,
which would obviously make sense.
But this was
well, actually, no, he
was not a producer on this on hellor high water.
I do know, like after Sicario
and this, he really got some acclaimand that's where he's able to start
pitching some of this other stuffthat he was doing.
(02:55):
So I saw this again today. I rewatched it.
I mean, I was I've watchedwe're in the same boat.
This is fresh.
This is fresh.It is anything I think we've discussed.
I will say that I've seen this moviemultiple times.
I adore this movie.
I really like Sicario a lot. I love Danny.
I love Deakins.
I think that movie is absolutely amazinglyshot.
(03:16):
Well, but out of the TaylorSheridan trilogy or any he's really done.
This is my favorite of his.
Just everything about it is great.
It for me, like when I sit downand watch it, it's one of those
I don't say it's a guilty pleasurebecause I don't feel guilty watching it.
And it's not a happy movie.
But there's just something about it.
(03:37):
Like this is on rotationof like or I'm like,
I want to throw something onin the background or just,
you know, I have 20 minutes.I don't like I'm not on the show.
I'm not doing whateverlike what I want to watch.
It's like this The Big Short,
I mean, obviously Oceans is always kind of
in the back burner, but like,
there's a couple of stuffthat's always kind of like I just,
you know, I watch 20 minutes of itand like, I'm happy,
you know, and just there's certain momentsI really enjoy.
(03:58):
And this movie is happensto be one of them that really kind of hits
hits for me.
I probably prefer Wind River.
Okay.
That one's a brutal film.
I mean, that one is more brutalthan. Yes, it is.
It is.
This movie's much better.
The pacing on this film isis it's an easier watch than Wind River.
But I just at first glance,I think I probably would still give
(04:23):
Wind River the night is is my favoriteof kind of all the stuff he's done.
But this feels much more like a classicAmerican Western.
And I know we've had conversationsabout that
genre before where it's like,
everybody's sick of Westernsand it's like, Yeah,
I think people are kind oftired of like the traditional
(04:44):
Western with with horses and cowboys
and yeah, I thinkI think that's kind of been beat to death,
although enough time will passand then it'll kind of come around again.
But specific genre of a Western
in which technically Star Warsa New Hope is a Western,
that genre still works.
(05:07):
And this movie is proof
positive of why that formula isstill is so good.
And I was watching it again.
You know, like you said,you watched it today.
I watched it today as well.
And it wasI was just awestruck watching it going,
yep, He just he's replaced
Ford and Chevy pickup trucks.
(05:28):
These could easilybe guys on horseback and
the Texas Rangers, the Texas Ranger and.
Yeah, and the homestead is the homestead.
And it was pretty wild to watch ita second time through that lens of
and then even the way thatthe cinematographer was framing certain
shots, like on that front porch was like,yeah, I've seen I've seen that shot
(05:51):
a million timesin the great Westerns from the,
the forties, fifties and,and in the sixties.
The film is beautiful and yeah, it is.
And the cinematography is very deliberateand they hold on shots for a while.
There's not a rushto jump into the next setup unless it's
one of the, you know, action sequenceswhich they do very well.
(06:16):
It was, it was a better second viewingand I couldn't believe it because I,
I knew now where everything was headed
and it still was a was a better watch.
So yeah, I think I think this film'sa little bit underrated
when I go on to the movie databaseand see that it's it's a 7.6.
I think this is definitely an eight
(06:37):
to an eight twois probably where I would put it. Yeah.
And yeah,
Shout out to Taylor Sheridan from ChapelHill, North Carolina.
Yeah, at least he was bornthere is his material Doesn't feel like
a guy that grew up in in Carolinabut in chapel
Yeah yeah Chapel Hill
(06:58):
but yeah this guy's got a command of
of what kind of makes a western.
And it's, it'snot merely the trappings of,
of horsebackand it's, it's deeper than that.
It's, it is at its corethis is another film about family.
A family.
(07:19):
So one of the things that I really enjoyabout this film,
from a writing standpoint,from an acting standpoint, is that
I really don't know who to root for.
Like, that's the hardest part is,
you know, like on one like obviouslythe antagonist is Texas Midland Bank
(07:40):
boom done That's the but other than thatlike I don't like
you would think like obviouslywith Chris Pine and Ben Foster
who both do have amazing chemistrytogether the entire time.
And Ben, this is my favoriteBen Foster role of all time, I think.
I think he's actually an very underused,undervalued actor.
(08:01):
But in this, it just shows me because
on thesurface I should dislike his character.
And I he's abrasive, he's egotistical,
He is, you know, just
that guy who I, I hate,
but his love for his brother,his willingness to do whatever for family,
(08:21):
There's just something in the interplaybetween them.
There's just something that draws you inthat you kind of are like,
he's the crazy uncle, you know?
You know he's crazy, but he's family,like, you know, or whatever.
And there's just that kind of bondthat just draws you to it.
But then on the flip side, it'snot like I'm
upset at the Texas Rangers.
(08:44):
Like, it'snot like they're the antagonists.
Like,I want them to win, too, because obviously
they're the good guys trying to stop this,you know, stop,
you know, these things and, you know,people die and things of that sort.
So it's it's
Sheridan really does a fantastic job of
just drawing you into these characters,of making you want to root for them,
even though they're diametrically opposed,they're actually against each other.
(09:08):
And so few movies do that.
Like, I mean, you know, we talk aboutUsual Suspects, like I'm 100%
sided on the criminals and have no
no desire to root for
agent the queen or I forget itever his name, but I think that's great.
But Sheridan just kind of towsthat line of doesn't let you like,
(09:31):
basically you have to decide
if you're rooting for them or notbecause he's going to make them likable.
Yeah, it's morally ambiguous to an extent,
and which is very much more in linewith real life.
And yeah,there's something with these bank
heist filmsbecause the same is true of heat
and then the same is true of
the town as well, which the townthe town predates this by six years.
(09:55):
And they do share some similarities
with kind of a protagoniston the wrong side of the law.
Similarities kind of stop there.
These this film standswell on its own, apart from the town
and apart from franklyhe and it goes beyond the setting.
But to your point,
you know, I notice somethingwith with Ben Foster's character Tanner,
(10:17):
that I never noticed before, andI don't know why I didn't notice it, but
after Bridges kills him up in the hills
and he and he's slumped over,
there's a rattlesnake and his feetand there is.
I don't know why I didn't notice itthe first time, but it was almost like
the laws of nature were upon himand he was going to meet his end.
(10:41):
Either the end of that bullet orthe freaking snake was going to get him.
And I don't know why I missed thatthe first time, but I was like,
well, yeah, yeah.
It's almost like the universe was wastilted towards him and he and he knew it.
And it was just like, No,I'm going to go out in a blaze of glory.
So and everybody's got these limitsthat they'll go to that
(11:02):
they're willing to go to.
And he doesn't really have any.
And then contrast that with Pine'scharacter, Toby
and it was very, very distinct.
And you want to take a wife at all.
But he did set these things into motion.
And so it's like, you're right, it'sthis you're
going to wrestle with the moral questionsthat this movie raises.
(11:25):
And I think that's the power of the film
is that, well, after the credits roll,you're like, Man, yeah, I don't know.
I still think about it.
I mean, to this day,I still I still wonder
in my mindwhat happens in that next meet up between
Chris Pine,
you know, And so it'sone of those of like like
you know what's happening like what's is
(11:47):
I don't want like if you haven't seen itlike I want to spoil too much, but
no, no, no, no, no, no.
I mean it.
Between the films eight years old,we're playing spoiler. Yes.
We're not going to play free on a filmlike, Yeah.
Is Jeff Bridges just going to go thereand they're going to talk?
Or is one of only one of themgoing to walk away,
which is hinted at that is like,he's like, Yeah, I'll give you your piece.
And then Bridges is like, Well,maybe I'll give you your piece.
(12:09):
Yeah.
So that's yeah, So it'sthis is the type of dialog
that I talk about with friendswere like that.
I'm frustrated.
Certain movies, especially someone,you know, some of the recent Star
Wars ones so I'm feeling likethe dialog is just in there
and I don't need dialogto be super serious.
I don't need dialog to be likeit has to be ushering
(12:30):
in something momentous,like a big, big speech.
It just needs to be very poignant,
very purposeful,kind of not just let's throw in words
the use of, but like everythingthat's said in this film,
either has weightor has purpose of why it's been said.
It's not just filler.
And and Sheridan is great
(12:52):
in all the all of his filmsthat he's done this in.
And I really dolike when we ever Wind River a lot it is
I've seen it a couple of times and it's
I mean it's brutalevery single time I see it.
This one is just for mea little bit more rewatchable.
And there's something about,like I said, the interplay between Chris
Pine and Ben Foster is really good of how
(13:15):
Chris Pine is like the
antithesis of Ben, of the of Tobyis the antithesis of Tanner, of like he's
so reserved,so quiet, so, you know, kind of
just take the not to take the worldas it is, but kind of like
he's going to take his beatingsuntil there's a point where Ben Foster,
you know, as Tanner is just the moment,like someone,
(13:36):
you know, throws hands,
he's going to be in the mix with everybodyand going to be like, No, I'm going to
I'm going to punch somebody out myself.
I want to do I'm going to get get mine.
I'm going to take care of this.
And it's just so interestingto see the two of them play off each other
because they do so well,because they do play like brothers, like
it feels so real,like they could actually be brothers
(13:57):
in real life of the waythey're acting to each other.
I mean,
it's likeone of my one of my little scenes
is when they get back inand Ben Foster grabs a beer,
Tanner gets a beer from the refrigeratorand Toby walks in.
He's just like, I don't I need you sober.
And he and Tanner comes back.
He goes, Who gets drunk on beer?
(14:19):
You know? And it's like.
Like this is a conversationthey've had before.
Like, this is stuff that the dialog inthe film is super, super quick and.
And witty. Yeah.
And Bridges interaction with with
Gill is just hysterical.
Yeah.
Unfortunate like they have thatthat funny exchange in the hotel room
(14:39):
where he's just really getting on himmaking you can Indian jokes
and then switching to Mexican jokesand which is just hysterical super
politically incorrect which I loveand it's funny, it's done in a really like
fun manner, but he tells them he's like,You know, when I'm dead and gone,
this is what you're going to likechuckle about.
These are the storiesyou're going to tell about me.
(15:00):
And yeah,unfortunately that just isn't true
because Tanner kills Joe and thatand really
that's the moment where you're like,
Yeah, Tanner has got to go.
Like even is a part of,
even as an unbiased viewer,you're just like, No, his time is up.
Like this guy.
(15:21):
This guy just loves carnage and
no, I, there's another thing that I just,I just noticed
and becauseand I should have recognized it
because it's in my stomping groundsor at least close to home.
My parents are with the old manin the bank who's got the gun.
That's Buck Taylor from Gunsmoke.
So super funny cameos.
(15:43):
And that's Mark Taylor.
And the only reason I knowthat is because a couple of hours
from me, Dodge CityCasino used to run an ad campaign
with Buck Taylor in it,like probably five or six years ago.
And so, yeah, that's that's the old man.
And so, you know, you have like a kingof Westerns in a modern American Western.
(16:03):
And then they askyou, like, you got a gun on you like
you get a rob that tells you,
it's so fun.
The interplaykind of some of these, you know,
these people from West Texas or whatever.
And like when when Jeff Bridgesis talking to the truck driver.
Right, like right near the beginningor whatever he's like
because they don't want to find me,though.
We have to the,
(16:24):
you know, the short end of a long ropeor or there'll be the wrong end of a short
rope or something like that.
And he's just like, well, you know,make it easier for everybody but you.
He goes, yeah, if you can find the tree.
And he's just like, I love,I love West Texas.
He's like, Yeah, it'sjust this like, this fun interplay.
It's so the dialogs really, the actingis fantastic pretty much from everybody.
(16:46):
Fun little fact.
Yeah.
I find it for those people
who don't know, like moviesvery rarely get shot in sequential order
and they're usually all over the placebecause if they're on a location,
they're going to shoot all the scenesat that location, those kind of things.
But so the scene with Chris Pineand Jeff Bridges,
that was Chris Pine's last day
(17:06):
and Jeff Bridges his first day.
So like that, that scenebetween the two of them.
So there was like and that'sthe only scene they they share together.
There's no other scenethey share together.
So it's pretty much like Jeff Bridgesis only in scenes with with
with some of the townspeopleand with with Gill.
You know, very rarely
does he actually even like he'snever technically in the same frame,
(17:26):
even with with Ben Foster'scharacter, Tanner.
And one of the things I think it also doesis because there's not long breaks
in between where you're shootingwith as a person, you can build that bond,
you can kind of maintain that workingrelationship, that friendship.
It's easier to get back into that feelingand build upon it as opposed to like,
(17:47):
Hey, we're shooting together for,you know, a week at this location
and then they're shooting atother locations that one of us is not in.
We don't see each other for,you know, a couple of weeks to a month
and they get back in and it's like, hey,you got to build that back up.
But if you're shooting day after dayor like week after week
kind of consecutively,then it's nice balance of kind of
continuingto build upon your working relationship
(18:09):
and building on that friendship,which then
obviously affects your acting styleand how you can build.
And I think that's one of the main reasonswhy, you know, Jeff Bridges and Gil do
such a great job together
and then obviously why Ben Foster andChris Pine do such a great job together.
I mean, this is
it's just outstanding and
(18:30):
I'll stop with the acting,but it's it's just really good.
No, you know, I kind of want to continuewith the acting because you won't see
Chris Pine deliverthis kind of performance.
More of a was reserved,controlled restraint performance.
You know, what he's asked to doa lot is is be the fast talker and which
(18:51):
he's very good at obviously famouslyor probably best known as is Kirk.
But the other film that he'she did where it's closer to
this is but it's a little moreanimated is unstoppable was with Denzel
and he plays he plays more of a downon his luck character
and not as well but there's more there aremore outbursts from him than this
(19:17):
because even when he's frustratedwith tenor, it's more of just like he's
it's more just like kind of reserved.
It's like he's he's like,talked me into doing this again
or he's like, gone and robbedthis other bank while I'm like, talking
with the waitress,which is just a hysterical turn of events.
Yeah.
(19:37):
And it was really interestingthat they got
Katie mixing to play the waitressbecause she's
I mean, she's a really well known actress.
She had a long standing sitcom,
I think on ABC and has
you know,it's been in, what, four Christmases?
And and then my favoriteis Eastbound and Down.
(20:00):
Yeah, yeah.
She's great.
And so they get her for just a quick rollbut she
she steals the scene obviously
it's like yeah you go take your tip.
I love it.
He tells Bill like,yeah, we should go back there and
get a description and then
and then collect your $2
(20:21):
and these old guys at the, the table.
Yeah, good luck with that.
But it was really interesting though,because none of those guys or her
sold out Pine's character, Toby,like none of them.
I mean, they gave no like,no description of him at all,
which is really interesting.
The only potholeI was trying to find again was like
(20:42):
their friends were all over that,like Ford Bronco,
like that truck,the one that he torched it.
So I was like,Nope, it's not a way that works fine.
So yeah, because that was the only onethat didn't get buried, basically.
BURY Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I mean, it's one of those thingswhere and going back
to the diner people of why
(21:04):
especially like that group were like olderand like three
or four old gentlemenor whatever is when the,
when, you know,
the Texas Rangers come in like thatand Jeff Bridges is talking to them,
he's just like, Yeah, that's the bank
that's been robbed me for the pastlike 20, 30 years.
Or I forget exact line,but it's one of those like there's enough
hate for the bank
(21:25):
and now frustration that they kind ofwant to see it get hurt
and so they're not going to like throwsomeone else on the bus.
And so this is it's it's interestingbalance of like, how far are you willing
to let something get hurtbecause it has hurt you kind of thing.
And so it's this this interesting balance.
So I didn't notice the first viewingas much as the all the billboards
(21:46):
were like with like debt relief or fastcash or and then all the for sale signs.
It just I was I was oblivious to itin the first viewing.
I just and I don't know whyI just was less sensitive to it and
Compared to some other films
where they might be setin, you know, more of a depressed area.
(22:06):
But yeah, that's the major theme is that
these banks have been
and would opens on the first framefor crying out loud
on the side of the Midlands bankis that spray paint of like
you know multiple tours in Iraqbut no bailout for us.
But the film isn't really that preachylike it's there,
(22:28):
but the story is really good,the script is really good.
The bones of this are
solid.
It isn't just a vehicle for a let's fightthe man, Let's get one, pass
the man Like there's more going on there
because this film could easily fellinto that of like
just coming across as more of a shallowkind of preachy anti Wall Street.
(22:53):
I mean, he's going to filmand I mean, Sheridan does this really well
because obviously even his in Wind Riverhe's kind of
has that a very distinct kind of messagehe's trying to get across.
But it never comes across preachy at alleither.
I would even say in Sicario
he has a political message or,you know, really political,
but like a messagethat he's trying to get across.
(23:16):
And it doesn't feel preachy.
It's subtle and it's there. It's present.
Like it's it's not like it's hidden.
It's definitely out there.
But he's not trying to beat youover the head with it.
He's just like,This is what I'm telling the story about.
He could be confusedfor being preachy in this stuff
because Yellowstone's been accused of thesame thing, but I don't think it's there.
You know,I've watched a little bit of that show,
(23:37):
and I think the subtextis certainly there.
But it's it's good storytelling, too.
There's definitely something
he wants to get across,but he still makes his story engaging.
He still puts in good dialog where it'snot beating you over the head of it.
And I'm going to talk about thethe flip side of the coin of where there
you know, you're talking about beating youover the head of it.
It's not great writing, but they're tryingto like just push the message.
(24:00):
The other half of that is we'rejust doing spectacle
that we're just doing how many bullets,explosions,
spaceships, can we fit in to screenand not care about the dialog?
Because, hey, all of this,they're going to be so wowed by this,
they're not going to careabout the dialog.
And that's beensome of my biggest problems with
especially with with with science fictionand some fantasy that's come out,
(24:22):
specifically Star Wars stuff where they'rethey just care about the spectacle.
How great is the CGI
or how cool can we make this shotand less about the characters and dialog?
And so there's like,
it's not that it's difficult, but it is.
It takes effort to make
(24:43):
good dialog, to make good story choices,to make good choices,
and not kind of gothis route of being like, let's
just save ourselves for the spectacleor let's save ourselves for the message.
And but still hit but hit these beatslike you could still have some spectacle,
you can still have your message,
but if you tie it up and vote,you have much better movie,
(25:03):
better TV show than kind ofwhat's coming out most times now.
Yeah, well, and they're the streamers,Disney, they're all going to
they're all going to course correct herewith the money they've been spending.
And so the odds are good that you're goingto start seeing more stuff like this
just because it's it'smore affordable to make.
(25:25):
I mean, they've run out of money,basically, like the Marvel
the Marvel train is slowing down.
And it's it's for a whole host of reasons.
But my guess is we're going to startto get more smaller
filmsthat have been put through the ringer.
And they still you know,they still might have they'll still have
underpinnings of of a political or
(25:49):
some other
messaging, which stuff's always had that.
But it's always been.
Yeah, it's not,you know, but it's always been
second or third or fourthor on down on the list
behind a good story or good or, or,or at least entertaining.
Right.
Like entertainment should be priority one.
(26:09):
And I don't I feel like we're coming outof a window of time where entertainment
has not been necessarilyalways priority one.
And I'm not.
But I'm again, I'm not talking aboutthe top one or 2% of directors or writers.
Those folks get greenlitpretty much whatever they want.
And but I'm talking about beneath that,which encompasses
(26:32):
a lot of network televisionand then some streaming projects as well.
It's the quality is just not there.
But I think they're wrong.I think they're running out of money.
They might not be given another choicethen to do stuff like
like hell or high water.
Well, I just
I just read an articlethat was talking about the fact
that Netflix itself is sayingthat it's changing to focus on quality,
(26:54):
not quantity, which it's obviously it'sbeen producing so much.
It's like,
yeah, I meanI think some of that is probably is,
you know, the majority of thatis exactly what you said.
It's the bottom line is they're realizingthat that if you don't have
those tentpole
TV series or movies,no one's going to care
and they're going to drop youeven though you have hundreds
(27:16):
of shows, hundreds of movies,because they're all trash.
I mean, some people don't care.
Like some people obviously don't careas much as we do about this.
But but anyway, so
hell or high water,they made it for 12 million, by the way.
Wow. yeah.
Do we know how much of whatthe box office was?
Yeah, I did 27 million in the U.S.
and Canada and another 10.9 in some other.
(27:37):
So the worldwide total was 37.9 millionagainst a production budget as well.
Okay.
And it wasn'tit didn't have a heavy marketing campaign.
No. So and the thing obviouslyhas got legs like we're I mean work.
Yeah, this thing is eight years old, butI mean, obviously we're talking about it
today, but this thing's a nice fixtureon streaming platforms.
(27:58):
It's grant or like I say today,I just watched it on Peacock
and I was frustratingly had
it had to subscribe to Peacockbecause my wife's a Kansas City Chiefs fan
and we had to watch the playoff gameyesterday.
Sorry,those of you that are Dolphins fans.
But I checked it
(28:19):
and was like, hell or highwater is on Peacock.
Why don't I own this? I don't know.
And I know we've discussed that before,but like I need to,
I need to course correct myselffor owning physical media.
And this is easily onethat should be in my collection.
There's so much about this, like you talk.
Okay, I'm going to talk a littleabout the cinematography.
And obviously it's West Texas,so it's pretty flat.
(28:41):
It's pretty, very monochromaticin a lot of different ways.
And there's something and correct meif I'm wrong, because obviously
this is not my but it feels likethey've under saturated the colors a lot.
Like not a ton,but definitely doesn't feel
it's not oversaturated.
Everything's feels a littlemuted. It feels a little,
(29:03):
dare I
say it, depressed in the color gamut,but it works.
It's still is visually interesting.
It's still like, yeah, go ahead, turn.
No, If you got another thought on that,I Go ahead.
I know. I'm just curious.
Now, here's what you're excited to see.
I'm going to say yesand no, because, yes, the
the environment is
(29:25):
is got less saturation and is more browns
echoing very much a dust bowl
kind of
feel for very, very good reason.
And then but the skin tones,I think do have good saturation.
Honestly,when I watch this, the the look of it is
(29:47):
the color palette is not unlike thatof no country for old men. Yes.
And so a lot of it is the environment.
It's not just the color. Great.
It's it's the fact that they are shooting
in the middle ofthe country in in Texas. And
yeah, there's not a
lot of greenit's it's a lot of cow pasture
(30:10):
and wheat fields and and ranchesand they're with a lot of browns.
And he does feel appropriately depressed
with that kind of brown color palette.
So I but I think the if I'm not mistaken,this was shot digitally.
I don't think this was shot on film.
And it's only a2k for all you 4K snobs.
(30:32):
The the eerie role was like 2.8 K,and then it was digitally mastered at two.
Okay, so resolution is okay,
is not the end all be all it is
dynamic range and color informationand their resolution
falls so far down the listof what makes a great image.
It's not even funny.
(30:52):
Like this whole 4K obsession is just Ben,I want my AK.
Come on, man.
See the difference? It's like real life.
You want to.
Except you haven't and haven't doneyour is a frontier AK television. Just
no, because you don't have enoughlike what
receptors in your your eyes for AKlike when you have like No, not really no.
(31:15):
Well because they're split in the thirdsbecause it's like you have
what, red, green, blue and you haveand you're you have less.
I think less less cones and pixels
for AK and like even in 4K,like each one of those pixels
can be all those colors where your eyecan only like has thirds of everyone.
So like again, it's when people were like,
my goodness, I can see like, no,you probably can't anyway.
(31:37):
In fact, yeah,like I was researching projectors again.
Nothing's wrong with my projector.
It's fine.
It's fine.
It's like a it's a businessprojector marketed as a home entertainment
projector.
So, like, the contrast isand is good on it, but you've seen it.
The image is still so good.It's HD. That's great.
And I'm looking at these 4K projectors,but then there's there's another Ben cue
(32:00):
that's HD,but it's got an LED light source
that lasts like way longer than lightthe life of the projector.
And then the contrast onit is like 50, 60000 to 1
and the black levels are true black.
And so I go and research itand they basically said, yeah, there's no
this projectors $1,000
(32:21):
and thereis no 4K projector that has black levels
that does what this doesuntil like four grand.
Yeah. So it's like, yeah,
if I upgrade it,I'll probably just stay with HD.
So now there was a super crazy tangent,a high resolution engine on it.
So I mean resolution definitely actually,you know, does help in some regard.
(32:42):
You know, obviouslystandard DEF two to normal HD is huge.
I would say thatthere is visually some stuff to 4K,
but it just starts to peter out of,like you said, of what matters of
what makes you see what is a good image.
But going back, this is a beautiful filmand it's in that two, three,
five widescreenand in the framing is just exquisite
(33:05):
from from the first frame to the last.
It's perfect.
It is textbook on how to frame for
for ultra well it's not even ultra wide.
The wider screen format. Yeah.
The way he fills the frame
is perfect every time.
It doesn't really do anything crazy.
(33:28):
Like there's not,there's not really any camera movements
that are like,I haven't really seen that before,
but don't mistake that for like a paintby numbers.
It's high level cinematography,the the lighting, the framing,
and then the edit just goesthe editing in invisible edit,
which is which for me means that the edit
(33:49):
is like completely on pointbecause I don't really notice it.
And, and I do. I think it's underrated.
highly, highly underrated.
It's I really, really enjoy this filma lot.
And again, not because it's a happy movie
because there's, it'sone of those things that I
when I see something really good,I just want to continue to consume it
and find new things or see new thingsor just revisit some of those
(34:13):
those moments like the wholewhen Tanners of the casino
the first time and he's playing pokerand he has that kind of run
in with the Comancheand that whole kind of discussion,
that dialogthere is so great like it, it feels
it has so much weight.
But my one of my favorite thingsis they bring it back at the end
(34:36):
right before he dies, where he just goes,
Lord of the Plains, you know,
And it's like it's, it's
these characters have arcs and it's hugeof like these characters do move forward.
They get changed bywhat happens in the film, you know,
or realize their potential realize,I mean, in for,
(34:57):
you know, Tannerthat was look at me run from the law,
you know, not getting caught,you know, kind of kind of situation.
He yeah, he just seemed to innately knowthat his thirst
for not following the law wouldultimately catch up with him.
And he and then when he knew thatthat could save his brother,
(35:17):
he jumped at the chance.
It's as much redemptionas that character was going to have.
Was leading everybody on a wild goosechase away from pine.
But yeah, I agree with you.
I think Foster is definitely
there's a theme here of being underrated.
And I always have felt that Ben Foster'sis one of the more underrated actors
in in Hollywood.
(35:38):
I don't know that he can carry a film on.
Nobody's really seems to have given himthat pure opportunity
to do so, but he steals the scenebasically in everything he's in.
I mean, it's a good movie,but Lone Survivor,
he just runs circles around Mark Wahlbergas an actor.
Like it just runs circles around him.
And I don't I don't hate Mark Wahlberg.
(35:59):
And Wahlberg is not a bad actor, but
fostersit constantly operating on another level.
Now, Pine matched his performance.
Like Pine really brought it, and
so I give him a lot of credit.
And then bridges like Bridgesgives you that like different kind of
speech pattern in thisthat's so much different
(36:21):
from everything he's and that he does feela different a different individual.
You know Gil is in Yellowstone, so.
SheridanYes. Brought him brought him back.
And he actually is Comanche.
Yeah. Yeah. For real.
So after this, the directordid Outlaw King, which I haven't seen yet.
(36:43):
And Chris Pine's.
I've seen that. So. Yeah.
okay. Yeah.
It's good to know. It's okay.
It's.
It's.
It's all right This is the quick,the quick in in review review.
You know, this is like a mexico city.
It's it's all right.
This happens a lot when we talk.
Yeah, it's okay. It's okay. I,
(37:05):
I think it's worth getting.
I think it's worth a watch.
There's potential there.
All right, Well, well, well, well, well.
Bypass, too.
because wasn'tthat was the Netflix I felt like.
Yeah. I think it was askingwas that Fox. Yeah. Yeah.
I always got that oneconfused with the king for a while.
(37:26):
which is okay.
Which is fantastic.
You know, Albert King is not the king now.
The king. It's not. No.
And for those of you listening,they don't know what we're talking about.
The king is TimothyShalom on Netflix as well.
And we the also Joel Edgerton,Joel Anderton.
Like basically it was his pet project.
(37:46):
Yeah.
And that is worth a watch.
And it has. my goodness.
His name escapes me.
Played Batman in the most recent Batman
in Twilight and in.
Yeah, yeah.
Well, there's a nice there's a nicelike a scene stealing scene.
Yeah, Yeah.
No, we just we could just.
We could discuss the king at some point.
But we will. We won't.
We won't do our thing anyways,so I guess we can talk.
(38:09):
You know, Anything else for hell or highwater that you want an alien or something?
That. No.
And I think for listenersthat haven't seen this, you know,
we spoiled everything, but
I can't apologize for thatbecause again, this
this thing's been around almost a decade,if you like other Taylor Sheridan stuff,
if you like Yellowstone or 1883 or 1923
(38:32):
or 1757 or, you know, 965, I don't know.
He's got so many now, these offshoots.
I mean, they print money for you.
Taylor I'm I mean, it's amazing whenyou can generate your own work like this
and you don't have to waitfor the phone call
except forexcept for a phone call from the studio
that wants to, like, greenlightyour project.
(38:55):
That's a good position to be in.
And this guy paid his dues.
This guy's been around for a long time.
He's had those mentorsand obviously it shows.
The only thing is,is the kind of fun fact.
He was an actor for a whilebefore he was a writer and he he is the
cowhand on the on the horse.
Yes. They and this these like you say.
(39:15):
What do you say is it's 21st centuryand I'm I'm like running away from a fire
like across I run into a runningwater for, you know, away from a fire.
It's like no wondermy kids don't want to do what I do.
Yeah,it was this perfect microcosm of, like,
a dying way of life.
Well, that was 2016 again.
Taylor Sheridan's hell or High water.
(39:37):
Well,we we appreciate everybody listening to.
Another episode.
We will we will join you all next week
with something else out of the bag
that I don't really know at this pointwhat it'll be
because we justwe record and then and then we just get to
pick the release order and it's not alwaysthe order that we've recorded them in.
(39:58):
So I can't really tellyou always will be next week.
But we appreciate everybodylistening for sure.
Yes, you. Thanks, everybody.
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