November 18, 2025 • 27 mins
What does it mean to take faithful action in a climate-changed world—especially when the problems feel impossibly large? In this final Behind the Scenes episode of the Climate Changed Podcast, host Jessica David sits down with Allen Ewing-Merrill, Executive Director of The BTS Center, and Rev. Nicole Diroff, Associate Director, to explore a defining BTS Center phrase: “small experiments with radical intent.”
Together, they reflect on how this deceptively simple idea invites spiritual leaders and communities to take creative, courageous steps—grounded in curiosity, rooted in discernment, and open to transformation. Through stories of congregations testing new practices, the BTS Center’s own experiment with reading weeks, and even Nicole’s family’s choice to replace disposable napkins with reusable ones, they reveal how small, intentional acts can lead to profound shifts in culture and worldview.
Jessica, Allen, and Nicole discuss what it means to lower the stakes, embrace failure as a learning opportunity, and approach faith work as experimentation rather than perfection. They unpack the “radical” in radical intent—not as extremism, but as a return to our roots—to what nourishes and sustains life. The result is a conversation that reimagines leadership and community as living laboratories for hope, spaciousness, and renewal.
Key QuotesAllen Ewing-Merrill:
“The root of the word radical is radix, meaning root. What if being radical is really about sinking deeply into our roots—into our essence, our source of life and nourishment and vitality? It takes real discernment to know what that is, but once we do, transformation follows.”
Rev. Nicole Diroff:
“For me, small experiments with radical intent build the muscle of curiosity. They’re manageable but meaningful, and they keep our hearts open in uncertain times. Without curiosity, our hearts can harden—and that’s when transformation stops.”
Allen Ewing-Merrill:
“We’re more likely to act our way into a new way of thinking than to think our way into a new way of acting. A small experiment—taken with radical intent—helps us step toward that new way of being.”
Meet the GuestsAllen Ewing-Merrill Allen Ewing-Merrill serves as Executive Director of The BTS Center and is a pastor, writer, and father of three daughters. With a background in ministry and community leadership, he brings deep commitment to cultivating spiritual imagination for a climate-changed world. He lives in Portland, Maine, with his family and continues to find joy in the small experiments that keep faith active and alive.
Rev. Nicole Diroff Rev. Nicole Diroff is Associate Director of The BTS Center and an ordained minister in the United Church of Christ. A mother, an amateur naturalist, and a self-described “pet collector,” Nicole brings warmth and curiosity to every conversation she leads. Her work focuses on developing programs that nurture spiritual leadership, curiosity, and awe as pathways toward ecological and cultural transformation.
Join the ConversationHave you tried a small experiment with radical intent in your own life or community? What did you learn?
Share your reflections by email at podcast@thebtscenter.org or leave a voicemail at 207-200-6986.
The Climate Changed Podcast is a project of The BTS Center in Portland, Maine. Produced by Peterson Toscano.
Discover more episodes, transcripts, and resources at climatechangedpodcast.org.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:03):
Is it okay to do something small in the face of a big problem?
What's the difference between learning and just making a mistake?
I'm Jessica David.
This is our final episode of the behind the scenes edition of the Climate Changed Podcast.
I'm sad, but I'm also happy because it has been fabulous to be here with you.
(00:24):
And what better way to close it out than with two senior leaders of the BTS Center.
I am Allen Ewing Merrill.
I serve as executive director of the BTS Center.
I'm also a pastor and a pastor's spouse.
You can think about that for a minute.
And I'm the father of three daughters.
Hello, Climate Changed listeners.
(00:45):
I'm Nicole Diroff I serve as associate director at the BTS Center.
I am an ordained minister in the United Church of Christ, a mom, an amateur naturalist,and a bit of a pet collector with two dogs, a cat, a frog, and a very busy fish tank.
And I usually am a climate changed host.
(01:10):
That's what I've been for the past three seasons.
But it has been really fun to turn over the hosting job to Jessica.
And I appreciate that, Nicole.
I feel your trust and it's been great fun for me.
We are going to talk today about some specific words, what they actually mean, why you usethem as people, as the BTS center.
(01:33):
So I'd like to start with this, a personal question.
Tell me about your favorite word or phrase.
Okay, I like this question and I'm going to go with collective effervescence.
This is a phrase I have been obsessed with and actually my colleagues at the BTS Centerprobably would know that about me because I raise it from time to time.
(01:56):
Collective effervescence is the emotional, energetic harmony that comes from human bodiesdoing something in sync.
collectively.
It is one of our sources of awe.
It makes us go, whoa, and sends pinpricks up our arms.
(02:19):
And for me, it evokes tears.
If I am out trying to cheer along marathon racers with my cowbell, I often am in tears.
If I am watching a elementary school choir concert, I like can hardly hold myself togetherbecause
Collective effervescence speaks real beauty to me.
(02:41):
That is a great phrase, Nicole.
Collective effervescence.
You can borrow.
I do borrow it.
I love that phrase.
The phrase that came to mind for me is actually a definition of contemplation that I'vebeen reflecting on a bit, and that is long loving look at the real.
(03:01):
I first encountered this in the work of Richard Rohr, who's a great spiritual teacher andauthor whose books and reflections I really appreciate.
But I think he's actually quoting this Jesuit priest, Walter Berghardt, who coined thephrase, but long loving look at the real.
feels like it's something that we really need right now in a time when everything is sofast paced and we're moving, moving, moving.
(03:28):
And also in this particular political climate where we're encouraged not to look at what'sreal, like to pretend that we live in some kind of fictional.
land, don't pay attention to climate change, don't look behind the curtain.
It feels really important that we're taking a long, loving look at the real.
I love that.
(03:48):
Thank you.
I'm a bit of a word nerd.
I love words that evoke emotions and just change your energy level.
And I think both of those phrases do that.
Thank you.
So today we're diving into a phrase that I've heard the BTS center use many times.
Small experiments with radical intent.
That was my dramatic pause there.
(04:09):
Small experiments with radical intent.
So let's start with the obvious.
What the heck does this mean?
I love this phrase, small experiments with radical intent.
This phrase does not originate with us.
I can't even remember where we borrowed it from, but it is a concept that's become kind ofa building block of several of our programs.
(04:31):
And we love introducing this concept to our community.
A time when it seems like the stakes are really high and there's so much anxiety swirlingabout getting it right and doing enough and avoiding missteps.
it seems really important to focus on the small and experimenting.
(04:51):
At the BTS Center, we're trying really hard to create a culture of creativity andimagination exploration.
That can sometimes feel like it's not easy when the challenges around us feel so giganticand so overwhelming.
But for me, when we invite people to take on a small experiment with radical intent, it'san invitation.
(05:15):
to learn through doing.
And first it starts with getting really clear about the intent.
What is our intent?
And we hope that intent springs from carefully, prayerfully discerned understanding ofvocation.
So to get clear about intent, to start somewhere, and then to take on a bite-sized thing.
And it's really about lowering the stakes and not being afraid to fail.
(05:39):
I think I'd add two stories or examples to what Allen just shared.
One of them is programmatic and one of them is internal with our own staff community.
So the program story I would tell is about a retreat that we held for congregations in theNortheast Bio region where they were invited to come together for a weekend.
(06:09):
of learning and connecting and exploration of their own identity and the needs of theworld that are calling for that unique identity.
So we had multiple sessions with teams of members of these congregations.
(06:29):
At the end, we introduced this concept of a small experiment with radical intent.
which we were asking them to take on in the six months following the program.
We were gonna support them with a tiny bit of seed money and with listening conversationsto help guide them in the process.
And we were gonna bring them back together to share with one another what they ended updoing.
(06:53):
Based on past experience, we knew that the small experiment part was actually easier tocome up with than the radical intent part.
Coming up with a project is a fun thing that a lot of congregations like to do.
But we didn't want them to skip to the project.
We wanted them to reflect on what they were trying to learn about, what they were tryingto manifest in the world in terms of their identity.
(07:18):
At the end of this retreat, we asked them to share their radical intent, not the smallexperiment, just the radical intent.
We offered a blessing.
over those radical intents.
We did it in a worshipful way, then sent them out to figure out what the small experimentwas going to be in light of that radical intent.
We had 12 congregations participate, and we have 12 stories of congregations who triedsomething out of a vision of who they wanted to be in the world.
(07:46):
The other story I'd share is about the BTS Center itself.
We did a research project.
that led to a report and published articles around Earth-shaped leadership.
Of course, this connects to our theme of spiritual leadership for a climate-changed world.
But when we took nature as teacher, what did that show us about leadership in these times?
(08:13):
One of the things it said loud and clear that we ended up publishing about was the needfor spaciousness if we are going to manifest new ways of being and
transformation, transformative societies and communities.
Now, we at the BTS Center, we are really good at getting a bunch of stuff done and we lovedoing it.
(08:35):
So we had to kind of, yeah, take our own medicine of do we offer spaciousness?
We developed a practice that has continued because it is fabulous and I highly recommendit called reading weeks.
There are two weeks out of the year that the BTS Center sets aside for its staff to haveno meetings, no programs.
(08:59):
Each of us decides what we're gonna read.
We don't all read the same thing, although sometimes we'll pick up the same book together.
This is a time that actually mimics what happens in seminaries.
Many of you know that the BTS Center is an organizational successor to a seminary.
And when I was in seminary, reading weeks were fun, but they always ended in exams andpapers.
(09:23):
Jessica, you may be in the midst of that right now.
But our reading weeks don't end in exams and papers.
They are meant for us to start having ideas connect, start having concepts integrate, andtruly creating the spaciousness that we're trying to teach in the world for our own
selves.
(09:43):
And we all love it.
If your organization or community possibly has the space to add two weeks a year, spacethem out.
They're six months apart and offer reading weeks.
It's one of the small experiments with radical intent that we're sticking with.
and I get to participate in your last reading week and can attest to that.
But also as a student and many other things, half straddling the reading week did not workthat well.
(10:07):
it, spaciousness is absolutely key.
Experiments with radical intent.
Full disclaimer to our listeners, because you can't see my face and how excited I get whenI say this.
I love this phrase, but I want to talk about why.
What?
purpose do these small experiments serve?
Is it to make us feel better, which could be very valid?
(10:30):
Or are these experiments really accomplishing something?
For me, they are about a way of being that is grounded in curiosity.
Now that I've been a part of taking on sort of several small experiments with radicalintent, they just build the muscle of what is it I deeply want and what's one little thing
(10:56):
I could try to get there.
It's an experiment.
I may decide to keep it or I may decide that didn't really work.
And then I come back to another one.
And so I'm building this muscle, this way of being curiosity.
I just think that's where we need to be or else our hearts are going to become hard.
(11:24):
I desperately want myself and those around me to keep our hearts open in uncertain times.
Small experiments with radical intent do that.
They're manageable, but meaningful.
manageable but meaningful.
Yeah, I like that, Nicole.
(11:44):
I also think about just how fraught these days feel.
When things around us feel urgent, it's really easy to kind of adopt this way of being.
I've heard the phrase, maybe you have too, the perfect is the enemy of the good.
Sometimes I get into that space.
I feel so paralyzed by wanting to get it right.
(12:07):
And it really is true that the perfect can be the enemy of the good.
We want to free people up to experiment even if they don't know what the outcome will be,even if there's a risk of failure.
None of us on our own can do everything, but we can all do something.
If we do the thing that's in front of us that connects with what others around us aredoing and it creates a momentum, it creates a broader movement, this is really an
(12:37):
invitation to take a small risk.
to move slightly beyond our comfort zone.
Not so far beyond our comfort zone that we're in danger zone or we're feeling overwhelmedor paralyzed, but just to push against our comfort zone a little bit.
Listeners, you might not be surprised to hear that sometimes there's resistance to changewithin faith communities.
(12:57):
When I was a pastor serving churches, I would face resistance and people would beuncertain about something.
And I kind of got into the habit of responding by saying,
It's just an experiment.
If it doesn't work, we'll try something else.
Every new thing was an experiment.
If people heard me say, it's just an experiment, we're not going to do this forevernecessarily, that would sometimes buy some time.
(13:24):
It helped to foster curiosity.
Gradually, over time, it began to shape a culture.
As individuals or in communities, if we can feel successful in small things, then we canbegin to build on that.
That's how change happens, one small step at a time.
um So interesting.
(13:45):
really see this thread of curiosity as a posture, building the muscle as a capacity,something you're strengthening, adding and layering towards this culture.
So what meets the definition of radical?
That's my favorite word in the phrase.
The root of the word radical is the Latin root radix, which means root.
(14:06):
The word radish might be more familiar.
It shares the same etymology.
Think of a radish as a root vegetable.
When we talk about radical, we're going all the way back to the roots, quite literallyreturning to our core, returning to what is essential for life, the center of nourishment
and vitality.
As with a radish or a carrot or any growing thing, it is from the root that life springsforth.
(14:32):
and leads to life and growth and transformation.
In our everyday usage of the word radical, sometimes we think this means being super edgyor bold to the extreme.
But what if being radical is really just about sinking deeply into our roots?
Sinking deeply into our essence, our source of life and nourishment and vitality.
(14:54):
That's actually quite bold to sink too deeply into our roots and our essence.
It takes some real discernment.
to know with clarity what that is.
But I think it's really powerful if we can get clear about where our rootedness really is.
Allen just demonstrated the way in which he used to be an English teacher by going toLatin roots of the words.
(15:18):
As you were saying that, Allen, I drew back to your definition of contemplation as a longloving look at the real.
And all of a sudden, it connected for me that contemplation, that look at the real canlead to identifying the radical.
I like that.
Yeah, absolutely.
(15:40):
This also reminds me, Allen, of our conversation with Allison a few episodes ago aboutdiscernment and calling and doing that work of hearing what that calling is and deciding
what that means for you.
So it's not just an intellectual exercise, but also something put into practice, perhapsthrough a small experiment with radical intent.
(16:02):
So let's talk about small.
Some may say that is the wrong scale.
with the enormity of the climate catastrophe.
We don't have time for small.
What we are after is enormous.
At the BTS Center, we are talking about worldview shifts.
(16:26):
That's big.
We talk about shifting out of seeing the world as a machine, where parts of the world arethere for our consumption, to seeing our role within the created order as one of kinship,
where we are because you are.
(16:46):
It's big.
The deeper you get into it, feels all consuming in terms of trying to shift a worldview.
So it's not that we're not after something big, but within all of that, we think smallmatters.
We think small is important.
Actually, we think small might be the best place to manifest possibility and agency.
(17:11):
Small can mean nimble.
Small can mean
We haven't grown too big within the context of the status quo.
And so maybe we can be about something a little different.
We've drawn deeply on author Deborah Rienstra's concept of refugia faith.
For anyone who hasn't heard the word refugia before, it's one that we have learned and noware using frequently.
(17:38):
It's a biological concept where in times of great devastation,
So volcanic eruptions.
Refugia are the small pockets where life persists.
Under a tree root, in a crevice between pieces of soil, they're diverse places where lifesurvives and regenerates.
(18:02):
Deborah and we along with her are imagining people of faith and goodwill as people ofspiritual refugia.
who know how to turn towards one another, who know how to open their hearts to curiosityas compared to the violence and the hard-heartedness that is frankly easier.
(18:24):
It is definitely a reframe of the word small.
I appreciate that.
Thank you, Nicole.
So who can do a small experiment with radical intent?
And before you answer that, I want to actually broaden the question a little bit.
I've spent six episodes talking with you all.
I've spent eight months working with the BTS Center.
(18:44):
And so much of the work you do is beautifully complex.
And you hold it with great appreciation for that complexity.
and with the depth of what you're asking people to do.
For someone listening to this podcast who may not know the BTS Center that well, who maynot have considered themselves a spiritual leader before this, what's the way in?
(19:09):
This concept, this way of being curious in the world and pairing action with meaning issuper accessible.
The BTS Center is often in the work of guiding communities through this process, which Ilove doing as my job.
I have done some of this as an individual.
(19:29):
When I think about how might my body still be healthy in retirement, I'm like, ooh.
What small experiment could I try for myself as an individual with that vision in mind?
I'll just share that this is something we've deployed in my family.
We really care about the environment, not just because it's my job, but because it's whereour hearts are, all three of us in my immediate family.
(19:56):
We wanted to figure out a way to have some conversations about that with the people whoare in our lives.
our beloveds.
We talked about the way in which we love to host.
We love having people from afar and from near come over to our home.
We decided to be done with disposable napkins.
But we decided to get a whole bunch of washable, reusable napkins.
(20:22):
And I will say, it takes time, like every week, to wash and refold these napkins.
But it has done the thing we wanted, which has opened up some conversations aboutsomething that's really important to us.
And a couple of our friends who came to visit, we went to their house.
They now are using reusable napkins.
So it kind of had the outcome and the meaning.
(20:44):
Nicole, that story reminds me of this expression that I've heard.
This has been attributed to lots of different people, but the phrase is we're more likelyto act our way into a new way of thinking than we are to think our way into a new way of
acting.
For me, this is just about starting somewhere and trusting the process.
This is a practice that any faith community can take on.
(21:07):
Maybe you've heard this expression, the seven deadly words of the church are, we've neverdone it that way before.
It's so easy for faith communities of any tradition to get stuck in old and comfortableways of doing things.
Listen, I believe tradition is good and important, but traditionalism can be superparalyzing and really self-defeating.
(21:29):
If you're a listener and you're part of a faith community or really any community, do alittle thinking about how you're spending your time and your energy.
And maybe there's something that you're going to choose not to do, even though it's becomepart of your tradition.
to free up energy to take on some new small experiment with radical intent that allows youto kind of explore and push against the comfort zone and try something new.
(21:55):
these small experiments, the napkin experiment, for example, is going to solve thisgigantic and very serious crisis.
But it allows us access into a new way of being, which is really what is needed.
Yeah, it's about the stance we're taking.
It's finding a way to not let the bigness overwhelm us either, but to say, this is huge.
(22:20):
Honestly, the conversation about the napkins started with watching a movie that said wehave 60 cycles of harvests left on our planet.
It was a movie about soil.
And I'm sitting there with my young child who likely will live beyond 60 years.
That
Bigness is what led to a conversation about napkins.
(22:43):
I think that's why it's the radical intent.
The bigness is absolutely there.
But it's a way in that doesn't just put that down and go, that's too big, I gotta walkaway.
one step toward acting our way into a new way of thinking.
what is radical about the BTS Center's approach is that you're not suggesting this issimply a scientific or a technological requirement, inventing something new or simply
(23:10):
changing certain behaviors, but it really is around becoming new people, resetting ourcommunities, our culture, the things we value.
That's the radical aspect to me.
This is my last question of the podcast, of my limited
engagement as podcast host here with the BGSA.
(23:31):
Until we find a way to bring you back.
Yeah.
by listener demand.
We started today's podcast with words and it feels to me like a good way to end it.
So, Allen and Nicole, what word is on your heart as we close out this final episode of ourbehind the scenes mini series?
Because we've been talking about open hearts and curiosity, I am landing in a space ofopen heartedness and curiosity, particularly around when this set of episodes is gonna
(24:03):
feel outdated.
um
word on my heart is gratitude.
I come back again and again to gratitude almost every day.
Try to begin my day with gratitude, try to end my day with gratitude.
But right now, I'm just feeling really grateful for these conversations that youfacilitated, Jessica, for your leadership and creativity and curiosity.
(24:24):
Really grateful for the conversation partners in this series.
Grateful for all of you who are listeners who've been along for the ride with us.
Yes.
And all who are part of BTS Center's...
ever expanding ecosystem.
So yeah, my word is gratitude.
Well, we will have to end it there.
Thank you so much, Nicole and Allen, for this conversation.
(24:46):
It has been a real pleasure to talk with you about this work.
Listeners, now it is your turn.
If you have undertaken a small experiment with radical intent in your own life, what wasit like for you?
And what are the questions you would have asked in our behind the scenes episodes?
(25:07):
I hope you will share with us by email, podcast at the btscenter.org or by voicemail at207-200-6986.
(25:28):
Thank you for listening to the Climate Changed Podcast, Behind the Scenes edition with me,Jessica David.
Many thanks to my guests today, Allen Ewing-Merrill and Nicole Diroff.
Visit climatechangedpodcast.org for show notes, a transcript, and more.
That website again is climatechangedpodcast.org.
(25:51):
A great big thank you to the BTS Center team.
Allen, Allison, Ash, Ben.
Madeline and Nicole for engaging with me in this experiment.
Special thanks to producer Peterson Toscano for producing the whole series and putting upwith me, and board chair Deborah Coyman for kicking us off in April.
(26:13):
Most importantly, thank you listeners.
It is a complicated time for our beautiful world, and I am so grateful you joined me onthis journey.
As always, I would love to hear from you.
Please contact me about this episode or any questions you want to ask.
You can call, text, or email us.
(26:34):
Leave a voice message at 207-200-6986.
That's 207-200-6986 plus one, of course, if you are calling from outside the U.S.
You can also text us at that number.
If you prefer, you can email us.
(26:55):
The email address
is podcast at the btscenter.org.
That's podcast at the btscenter.org.
Climate Change to Podcast is a project of the BTS Center in beautiful Portland, Maine.
Learn about the many resources we offer along with our in-person and online programs.
(27:17):
Visit our website, thebtscenter.org.
Bye for now.
Is it okay to do something small in the face of a big problem?
What's the difference between learning and just making a mistake?
I'm Jessica David.
This is our final episode of the behind the scenes edition of the Climate Changed Podcast.
I'm sad, but I'm also happy because it has been fabulous to be here with you.
(00:24):
And what better way to close it out than with two senior leaders of the BTS Center.
I am Allen Ewing Merrill.
I serve as executive director of the BTS Center.
I'm also a pastor and a pastor's spouse.
You can think about that for a minute.
And I'm the father of three daughters.
Hello, Climate Changed listeners.
(00:45):
I'm Nicole Diroff I serve as associate director at the BTS Center.
I am an ordained minister in the United Church of Christ, a mom, an amateur naturalist,and a bit of a pet collector with two dogs, a cat, a frog, and a very busy fish tank.
And I usually am a climate changed host.
(01:10):
That's what I've been for the past three seasons.
But it has been really fun to turn over the hosting job to Jessica.
And I appreciate that, Nicole.
I feel your trust and it's been great fun for me.
We are going to talk today about some specific words, what they actually mean, why you usethem as people, as the BTS center.
(01:33):
So I'd like to start with this, a personal question.
Tell me about your favorite word or phrase.
Okay, I like this question and I'm going to go with collective effervescence.
This is a phrase I have been obsessed with and actually my colleagues at the BTS Centerprobably would know that about me because I raise it from time to time.
(01:56):
Collective effervescence is the emotional, energetic harmony that comes from human bodiesdoing something in sync.
collectively.
It is one of our sources of awe.
It makes us go, whoa, and sends pinpricks up our arms.
(02:19):
And for me, it evokes tears.
If I am out trying to cheer along marathon racers with my cowbell, I often am in tears.
If I am watching a elementary school choir concert, I like can hardly hold myself togetherbecause
Collective effervescence speaks real beauty to me.
(02:41):
That is a great phrase, Nicole.
Collective effervescence.
You can borrow.
I do borrow it.
I love that phrase.
The phrase that came to mind for me is actually a definition of contemplation that I'vebeen reflecting on a bit, and that is long loving look at the real.
(03:01):
I first encountered this in the work of Richard Rohr, who's a great spiritual teacher andauthor whose books and reflections I really appreciate.
But I think he's actually quoting this Jesuit priest, Walter Berghardt, who coined thephrase, but long loving look at the real.
feels like it's something that we really need right now in a time when everything is sofast paced and we're moving, moving, moving.
(03:28):
And also in this particular political climate where we're encouraged not to look at what'sreal, like to pretend that we live in some kind of fictional.
land, don't pay attention to climate change, don't look behind the curtain.
It feels really important that we're taking a long, loving look at the real.
I love that.
(03:48):
Thank you.
I'm a bit of a word nerd.
I love words that evoke emotions and just change your energy level.
And I think both of those phrases do that.
Thank you.
So today we're diving into a phrase that I've heard the BTS center use many times.
Small experiments with radical intent.
That was my dramatic pause there.
(04:09):
Small experiments with radical intent.
So let's start with the obvious.
What the heck does this mean?
I love this phrase, small experiments with radical intent.
This phrase does not originate with us.
I can't even remember where we borrowed it from, but it is a concept that's become kind ofa building block of several of our programs.
(04:31):
And we love introducing this concept to our community.
A time when it seems like the stakes are really high and there's so much anxiety swirlingabout getting it right and doing enough and avoiding missteps.
it seems really important to focus on the small and experimenting.
(04:51):
At the BTS Center, we're trying really hard to create a culture of creativity andimagination exploration.
That can sometimes feel like it's not easy when the challenges around us feel so giganticand so overwhelming.
But for me, when we invite people to take on a small experiment with radical intent, it'san invitation.
(05:15):
to learn through doing.
And first it starts with getting really clear about the intent.
What is our intent?
And we hope that intent springs from carefully, prayerfully discerned understanding ofvocation.
So to get clear about intent, to start somewhere, and then to take on a bite-sized thing.
And it's really about lowering the stakes and not being afraid to fail.
(05:39):
I think I'd add two stories or examples to what Allen just shared.
One of them is programmatic and one of them is internal with our own staff community.
So the program story I would tell is about a retreat that we held for congregations in theNortheast Bio region where they were invited to come together for a weekend.
(06:09):
of learning and connecting and exploration of their own identity and the needs of theworld that are calling for that unique identity.
So we had multiple sessions with teams of members of these congregations.
(06:29):
At the end, we introduced this concept of a small experiment with radical intent.
which we were asking them to take on in the six months following the program.
We were gonna support them with a tiny bit of seed money and with listening conversationsto help guide them in the process.
And we were gonna bring them back together to share with one another what they ended updoing.
(06:53):
Based on past experience, we knew that the small experiment part was actually easier tocome up with than the radical intent part.
Coming up with a project is a fun thing that a lot of congregations like to do.
But we didn't want them to skip to the project.
We wanted them to reflect on what they were trying to learn about, what they were tryingto manifest in the world in terms of their identity.
(07:18):
At the end of this retreat, we asked them to share their radical intent, not the smallexperiment, just the radical intent.
We offered a blessing.
over those radical intents.
We did it in a worshipful way, then sent them out to figure out what the small experimentwas going to be in light of that radical intent.
We had 12 congregations participate, and we have 12 stories of congregations who triedsomething out of a vision of who they wanted to be in the world.
(07:46):
The other story I'd share is about the BTS Center itself.
We did a research project.
that led to a report and published articles around Earth-shaped leadership.
Of course, this connects to our theme of spiritual leadership for a climate-changed world.
But when we took nature as teacher, what did that show us about leadership in these times?
(08:13):
One of the things it said loud and clear that we ended up publishing about was the needfor spaciousness if we are going to manifest new ways of being and
transformation, transformative societies and communities.
Now, we at the BTS Center, we are really good at getting a bunch of stuff done and we lovedoing it.
(08:35):
So we had to kind of, yeah, take our own medicine of do we offer spaciousness?
We developed a practice that has continued because it is fabulous and I highly recommendit called reading weeks.
There are two weeks out of the year that the BTS Center sets aside for its staff to haveno meetings, no programs.
(08:59):
Each of us decides what we're gonna read.
We don't all read the same thing, although sometimes we'll pick up the same book together.
This is a time that actually mimics what happens in seminaries.
Many of you know that the BTS Center is an organizational successor to a seminary.
And when I was in seminary, reading weeks were fun, but they always ended in exams andpapers.
(09:23):
Jessica, you may be in the midst of that right now.
But our reading weeks don't end in exams and papers.
They are meant for us to start having ideas connect, start having concepts integrate, andtruly creating the spaciousness that we're trying to teach in the world for our own
selves.
(09:43):
And we all love it.
If your organization or community possibly has the space to add two weeks a year, spacethem out.
They're six months apart and offer reading weeks.
It's one of the small experiments with radical intent that we're sticking with.
and I get to participate in your last reading week and can attest to that.
But also as a student and many other things, half straddling the reading week did not workthat well.
(10:07):
it, spaciousness is absolutely key.
Experiments with radical intent.
Full disclaimer to our listeners, because you can't see my face and how excited I get whenI say this.
I love this phrase, but I want to talk about why.
What?
purpose do these small experiments serve?
Is it to make us feel better, which could be very valid?
(10:30):
Or are these experiments really accomplishing something?
For me, they are about a way of being that is grounded in curiosity.
Now that I've been a part of taking on sort of several small experiments with radicalintent, they just build the muscle of what is it I deeply want and what's one little thing
(10:56):
I could try to get there.
It's an experiment.
I may decide to keep it or I may decide that didn't really work.
And then I come back to another one.
And so I'm building this muscle, this way of being curiosity.
I just think that's where we need to be or else our hearts are going to become hard.
(11:24):
I desperately want myself and those around me to keep our hearts open in uncertain times.
Small experiments with radical intent do that.
They're manageable, but meaningful.
manageable but meaningful.
Yeah, I like that, Nicole.
(11:44):
I also think about just how fraught these days feel.
When things around us feel urgent, it's really easy to kind of adopt this way of being.
I've heard the phrase, maybe you have too, the perfect is the enemy of the good.
Sometimes I get into that space.
I feel so paralyzed by wanting to get it right.
(12:07):
And it really is true that the perfect can be the enemy of the good.
We want to free people up to experiment even if they don't know what the outcome will be,even if there's a risk of failure.
None of us on our own can do everything, but we can all do something.
If we do the thing that's in front of us that connects with what others around us aredoing and it creates a momentum, it creates a broader movement, this is really an
(12:37):
invitation to take a small risk.
to move slightly beyond our comfort zone.
Not so far beyond our comfort zone that we're in danger zone or we're feeling overwhelmedor paralyzed, but just to push against our comfort zone a little bit.
Listeners, you might not be surprised to hear that sometimes there's resistance to changewithin faith communities.
(12:57):
When I was a pastor serving churches, I would face resistance and people would beuncertain about something.
And I kind of got into the habit of responding by saying,
It's just an experiment.
If it doesn't work, we'll try something else.
Every new thing was an experiment.
If people heard me say, it's just an experiment, we're not going to do this forevernecessarily, that would sometimes buy some time.
(13:24):
It helped to foster curiosity.
Gradually, over time, it began to shape a culture.
As individuals or in communities, if we can feel successful in small things, then we canbegin to build on that.
That's how change happens, one small step at a time.
um So interesting.
(13:45):
really see this thread of curiosity as a posture, building the muscle as a capacity,something you're strengthening, adding and layering towards this culture.
So what meets the definition of radical?
That's my favorite word in the phrase.
The root of the word radical is the Latin root radix, which means root.
(14:06):
The word radish might be more familiar.
It shares the same etymology.
Think of a radish as a root vegetable.
When we talk about radical, we're going all the way back to the roots, quite literallyreturning to our core, returning to what is essential for life, the center of nourishment
and vitality.
As with a radish or a carrot or any growing thing, it is from the root that life springsforth.
(14:32):
and leads to life and growth and transformation.
In our everyday usage of the word radical, sometimes we think this means being super edgyor bold to the extreme.
But what if being radical is really just about sinking deeply into our roots?
Sinking deeply into our essence, our source of life and nourishment and vitality.
(14:54):
That's actually quite bold to sink too deeply into our roots and our essence.
It takes some real discernment.
to know with clarity what that is.
But I think it's really powerful if we can get clear about where our rootedness really is.
Allen just demonstrated the way in which he used to be an English teacher by going toLatin roots of the words.
(15:18):
As you were saying that, Allen, I drew back to your definition of contemplation as a longloving look at the real.
And all of a sudden, it connected for me that contemplation, that look at the real canlead to identifying the radical.
I like that.
Yeah, absolutely.
(15:40):
This also reminds me, Allen, of our conversation with Allison a few episodes ago aboutdiscernment and calling and doing that work of hearing what that calling is and deciding
what that means for you.
So it's not just an intellectual exercise, but also something put into practice, perhapsthrough a small experiment with radical intent.
(16:02):
So let's talk about small.
Some may say that is the wrong scale.
with the enormity of the climate catastrophe.
We don't have time for small.
What we are after is enormous.
At the BTS Center, we are talking about worldview shifts.
(16:26):
That's big.
We talk about shifting out of seeing the world as a machine, where parts of the world arethere for our consumption, to seeing our role within the created order as one of kinship,
where we are because you are.
(16:46):
It's big.
The deeper you get into it, feels all consuming in terms of trying to shift a worldview.
So it's not that we're not after something big, but within all of that, we think smallmatters.
We think small is important.
Actually, we think small might be the best place to manifest possibility and agency.
(17:11):
Small can mean nimble.
Small can mean
We haven't grown too big within the context of the status quo.
And so maybe we can be about something a little different.
We've drawn deeply on author Deborah Rienstra's concept of refugia faith.
For anyone who hasn't heard the word refugia before, it's one that we have learned and noware using frequently.
(17:38):
It's a biological concept where in times of great devastation,
So volcanic eruptions.
Refugia are the small pockets where life persists.
Under a tree root, in a crevice between pieces of soil, they're diverse places where lifesurvives and regenerates.
(18:02):
Deborah and we along with her are imagining people of faith and goodwill as people ofspiritual refugia.
who know how to turn towards one another, who know how to open their hearts to curiosityas compared to the violence and the hard-heartedness that is frankly easier.
(18:24):
It is definitely a reframe of the word small.
I appreciate that.
Thank you, Nicole.
So who can do a small experiment with radical intent?
And before you answer that, I want to actually broaden the question a little bit.
I've spent six episodes talking with you all.
I've spent eight months working with the BTS Center.
(18:44):
And so much of the work you do is beautifully complex.
And you hold it with great appreciation for that complexity.
and with the depth of what you're asking people to do.
For someone listening to this podcast who may not know the BTS Center that well, who maynot have considered themselves a spiritual leader before this, what's the way in?
(19:09):
This concept, this way of being curious in the world and pairing action with meaning issuper accessible.
The BTS Center is often in the work of guiding communities through this process, which Ilove doing as my job.
I have done some of this as an individual.
(19:29):
When I think about how might my body still be healthy in retirement, I'm like, ooh.
What small experiment could I try for myself as an individual with that vision in mind?
I'll just share that this is something we've deployed in my family.
We really care about the environment, not just because it's my job, but because it's whereour hearts are, all three of us in my immediate family.
(19:56):
We wanted to figure out a way to have some conversations about that with the people whoare in our lives.
our beloveds.
We talked about the way in which we love to host.
We love having people from afar and from near come over to our home.
We decided to be done with disposable napkins.
But we decided to get a whole bunch of washable, reusable napkins.
(20:22):
And I will say, it takes time, like every week, to wash and refold these napkins.
But it has done the thing we wanted, which has opened up some conversations aboutsomething that's really important to us.
And a couple of our friends who came to visit, we went to their house.
They now are using reusable napkins.
So it kind of had the outcome and the meaning.
(20:44):
Nicole, that story reminds me of this expression that I've heard.
This has been attributed to lots of different people, but the phrase is we're more likelyto act our way into a new way of thinking than we are to think our way into a new way of
acting.
For me, this is just about starting somewhere and trusting the process.
This is a practice that any faith community can take on.
(21:07):
Maybe you've heard this expression, the seven deadly words of the church are, we've neverdone it that way before.
It's so easy for faith communities of any tradition to get stuck in old and comfortableways of doing things.
Listen, I believe tradition is good and important, but traditionalism can be superparalyzing and really self-defeating.
(21:29):
If you're a listener and you're part of a faith community or really any community, do alittle thinking about how you're spending your time and your energy.
And maybe there's something that you're going to choose not to do, even though it's becomepart of your tradition.
to free up energy to take on some new small experiment with radical intent that allows youto kind of explore and push against the comfort zone and try something new.
(21:55):
these small experiments, the napkin experiment, for example, is going to solve thisgigantic and very serious crisis.
But it allows us access into a new way of being, which is really what is needed.
Yeah, it's about the stance we're taking.
It's finding a way to not let the bigness overwhelm us either, but to say, this is huge.
(22:20):
Honestly, the conversation about the napkins started with watching a movie that said wehave 60 cycles of harvests left on our planet.
It was a movie about soil.
And I'm sitting there with my young child who likely will live beyond 60 years.
That
Bigness is what led to a conversation about napkins.
(22:43):
I think that's why it's the radical intent.
The bigness is absolutely there.
But it's a way in that doesn't just put that down and go, that's too big, I gotta walkaway.
one step toward acting our way into a new way of thinking.
what is radical about the BTS Center's approach is that you're not suggesting this issimply a scientific or a technological requirement, inventing something new or simply
(23:10):
changing certain behaviors, but it really is around becoming new people, resetting ourcommunities, our culture, the things we value.
That's the radical aspect to me.
This is my last question of the podcast, of my limited
engagement as podcast host here with the BGSA.
(23:31):
Until we find a way to bring you back.
Yeah.
by listener demand.
We started today's podcast with words and it feels to me like a good way to end it.
So, Allen and Nicole, what word is on your heart as we close out this final episode of ourbehind the scenes mini series?
Because we've been talking about open hearts and curiosity, I am landing in a space ofopen heartedness and curiosity, particularly around when this set of episodes is gonna
(24:03):
feel outdated.
um
word on my heart is gratitude.
I come back again and again to gratitude almost every day.
Try to begin my day with gratitude, try to end my day with gratitude.
But right now, I'm just feeling really grateful for these conversations that youfacilitated, Jessica, for your leadership and creativity and curiosity.
(24:24):
Really grateful for the conversation partners in this series.
Grateful for all of you who are listeners who've been along for the ride with us.
Yes.
And all who are part of BTS Center's...
ever expanding ecosystem.
So yeah, my word is gratitude.
Well, we will have to end it there.
Thank you so much, Nicole and Allen, for this conversation.
(24:46):
It has been a real pleasure to talk with you about this work.
Listeners, now it is your turn.
If you have undertaken a small experiment with radical intent in your own life, what wasit like for you?
And what are the questions you would have asked in our behind the scenes episodes?
(25:07):
I hope you will share with us by email, podcast at the btscenter.org or by voicemail at207-200-6986.
(25:28):
Thank you for listening to the Climate Changed Podcast, Behind the Scenes edition with me,Jessica David.
Many thanks to my guests today, Allen Ewing-Merrill and Nicole Diroff.
Visit climatechangedpodcast.org for show notes, a transcript, and more.
That website again is climatechangedpodcast.org.
(25:51):
A great big thank you to the BTS Center team.
Allen, Allison, Ash, Ben.
Madeline and Nicole for engaging with me in this experiment.
Special thanks to producer Peterson Toscano for producing the whole series and putting upwith me, and board chair Deborah Coyman for kicking us off in April.
(26:13):
Most importantly, thank you listeners.
It is a complicated time for our beautiful world, and I am so grateful you joined me onthis journey.
As always, I would love to hear from you.
Please contact me about this episode or any questions you want to ask.
You can call, text, or email us.
(26:34):
Leave a voice message at 207-200-6986.
That's 207-200-6986 plus one, of course, if you are calling from outside the U.S.
You can also text us at that number.
If you prefer, you can email us.
(26:55):
The email address
is podcast at the btscenter.org.
That's podcast at the btscenter.org.
Climate Change to Podcast is a project of the BTS Center in beautiful Portland, Maine.
Learn about the many resources we offer along with our in-person and online programs.
(27:17):
Visit our website, thebtscenter.org.
Bye for now.
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