March 18, 2025 • 48 mins
WATCH
▶️ Watch this episode on YouTube
***
EPISODE DESCRIPTION
In this episode, Brandon and Tom are joined by Canadian mortgage titan Ryan Wiley. Ryan is a Co-Owner of Strategy Hub and a Co-Founder of The VIP Club from Kelowna, BC. Ryan is also the host of "The Mortgage Game" podcast, and most recently is the Founder the Wiley Mortgage Team, where he is the team lead, mentor, and coach to a growing number of agents. Ryan previously spent 15 years being a mortgage broker, and refined his business to do tens of millions of dollars in volume while working only 12 hours a week.
Ryan is here to discuss: → The biggest mistake brokers make, and common things happening to brokers in the current market. → 3 steps to get leads, the value of an avatar client, and utilizing advanced mortgage strategies. → What's driving Team Wiley's success, Team Wiley's avatar agent, and how Tango offers more value for less split.
Ryan Wiley's Website: www.iamryanwiley.com
Ryan Wiley's Instagram: @iamryanwiley
Ryan Wiley's LinkedIn: @RyanWiley
Strategy Hub Website: www.get.mystrategyhub.ca
The VIP Club Website: www.thevipclub.io
The Mortgage Game Podcast: https://wavve.link/mortgagegame
***
TANGO ONTARIO
📧 Email Us → ontario@tangofinancial.ca
***
CONNECT
📸 Connect on Instagram (Brandon)
***
SAY THANKS
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Hello, everyone.
(00:00):
Welcome to this week's episode of
Commission Breath.
Brandon Love here with Tom
Moffitt.
And we got a special guest back
for another episode, Ryan Wiley,head of Team Wiley and one of the
teams under Tango Ontario.
So today we are just going to riff
a little bit, pull back thecurtain on some of the mistakes we
see brokers making, opportunitieswe see for brokers, no matter what
(00:22):
brokerage or team you're on, andjust kind of see where the
conversation takes us.
So Ryan, great to have you on the
pod again.
Welcome.
Awesome.
Thanks, guys.
Thanks for having me.
Always like hanging out with you
guys.
You're my people, as they say.
Nice, man.
We were just riffing before we
started this and we were thinkingof kind of the touch points we
want to touch on today.
And we have so many different
angles we can go here with youbecause you've got your hands on a
(00:43):
lot of different things in thebroker community.
I mean, you've got Strategy Hub,you've got your team, you've got
VIP Club.
So we figured you've got this big
circle of mortgage brokers you'reworking with, that you're
coaching.
So you've got your finger on the
pulse with a lot of differenttopics.
activities that brokers are doing.
So we figured we'd ask you, like,
what are the most common eitherpitfalls or things that brokers
are succeeding with in today'senvironment?
Yeah, yeah.
(01:04):
Great question.
And you're right.
I get to look under the hood of a
lot of brokers' businesses, andthere's a lot of common themes
that start happening, much likewith, you know, Scotia has the
best interest rate, and then theydon't.
Yeah.
And then TD has the best, and then
they don't.
It goes in ebbs and flows like
this.
and so on the broker side i see
what's working for people andwhat's not working for people is i
think the common theme is a lot ofbrokers are getting crushed by the
(01:27):
bank that's sort of always beenthe case but it feels like it's
more in your face now and mygeneral sense is the banks were
always there you usually never hadthe best interest rate at least
the last three four years for sureespecially on uninsured stuff but
of always been the case but itfeels like it's more in your face
now and my general sense is thebanks were always there you
usually never had the bestinterest rate at least the last
three four years for sureespecially on uninsured stuff but
It's more of a common theme.
And the reason it's a common
theme, I'm thinking, or I know, isbecause a lot of brokers are,
instead of them stepping back andgoing, why did I lose that file?
(01:49):
Like, why did they leave me for20, 30 basis points?
They're not reflecting back andgoing, how can I fix that for next
time?And so they keep looking for
shortcuts and cheat codes.
You will always get crushed by the
bank.
That's never freaking going away.
So what are you going to do aboutit?
And if you think that because youpick up your phone, quicker than
the bank does and because you putthem in a variable instead of a
(02:11):
fix because of ird penalties likeif you're using the brokering
mentality of five six seven eightten years ago that you just hang
around enough and you're warm andfuzzy like the landscape that has
shifted drastically you now needto change the conversation away
from price and product and aroundmore planning and i just see a lot
of brokers they're sinking outthere because they're caught up on
that hamster wheel of interestrate, interest rate, interest
(02:34):
rate, interest rate.
And usually they reach out to me
and they're like, hey, Ryan, whathappened here?
I lost.
I'm like, oh man, if I reverse
engineer the whole journey, yourwhole mindset, how they came into
your world, what conveyor belt didthey come in on?
Did they have your wow email tostart out with?
Did you tell them how you getpaid?
Did you ask them if they'recommitted to working with you?
(02:55):
Did you provide a custom proposal?Did you show them?
options outside of what they cameto you with or were you just an
order taker like did you set thetable ongoing like you were always
going to lose that deal you justdidn't realize i knew you were
going to hold it all starts fromthe beginning discovery call like
you can weed out those rateshoppers right away and even so
like you can give them your valueadds in that upfront call hold it
(03:16):
all starts from the beginningdiscovery call like you can weed
out those rate shoppers right awayand even so like you can give them
your value adds in that upfrontcall Like you were primarily in
the A space when you werebrokering.
If you were coming back into thebroker space, like as a broker,
would you be focusing on beingprivate or would you still stick
to the A side but have more ofthat advanced mortgage planning
side of it?100%, I would be A. So my model, I
want to be up against the banks.
And a lot of it's because the
clientele it attracts.
Think about it like this.
The model I had, we used threelenders, Scotia, TD, and MCAP.
(03:37):
mcap was just the monoline we useyou can insert any monoline there
we use three lenders if wecouldn't do the deal we referred
it out took 25 took a referral feebut if i set up my business to
only deal with eight people i haveto first figure out who my avatar
was so and then i reverse engineera marketing plan out of that and
so i did it was john and sallysmith 250 000 household income
(03:57):
white -collar professional valuestime over money has young kids
owns a home with some equity in itdoesn't know how their kids are
going to go to college feels likethey're never ahead always
wondering why their friends arefinancially further ahead doesn't
know when they're going to retireeven though they're making 250
household that was my avatar sothen when i come in and solve
those problems for them they willgladly work with me because i'm a
white glove concierge stylebusiness i'm a professional
(04:19):
they're willing to pay the premiumbecause i'm going to save them a
lot of money down the road now allthose files coming in i know where
they go now i don't need to hirean underwriter because i can hire
fulfillment but i don't need topay 80 000 plus bonus or whatever
for a skilled underwriter i canhave a fulfillment person run my
files for 500 to file andeverything's cookie cutter coming
(04:39):
in so now there's less stress onthe team i know the objections
they're going to have up front iknow how to handle the objections
in all of my marketing all of mycontent i know the content to make
it's to solve the problem of myavatar i know my emails to write
it takes away so much pressure andguessing on my whole business
model if i keep it to the oneavatar but i'm still going to get
(05:01):
other deals that come in and theni just choose if i let them in the
front door or not doesn't mean i'mnot going to get b deals because
i'm only talking to my avatar butthat's personally what i would do
i want my competitor to be thebank because i'm just going to do
a way better job at it than theyare Yeah, I think doing that gives
(05:22):
you an opportunity to get in thatflow state with your work, with
your client.
You know, everything's A.
Everything's going to go.
Like you said, this domino is
going to fall.
The next one's going to fall.
Everything is just, okay, I know Ihave to do this.
I wake up in the morning.
I stick to the plan.
And so many people are all overthe map is one of the common
(05:43):
themes we see for people.
But additionally, going back, it
then allows you to pick up astrategy like the cascade strategy
or do something like cash dammingand learn that.
And I think a lot of where brokersget overwhelmed is they feel like
they're drinking from a fire hosebecause they're like, I need to
solve a hundred problems for ahundred different clients, a
hundred different avatars, insteadof saying, okay, I'm competing
with rbc on this file why don't ilearn the cascade strategy set
them up put this in place and ican show them the value of that
(06:05):
and that's always going to winversus okay i need to have this
strategy for getting someone fromprivate to b to a in the three
-year time horizon totallydifferent strategies and different
game plan and you can do that it'sgoing to take you a long time and
you're going to miss all theopportunity that you can just pour
into prospecting marketingbuilding a business you actually
want yeah yeah you know the man ihave to pick a problem to solve so
(06:29):
my problem could be i can picksolve all these different files on
my plate and understand b lendersand private lenders and make
relationships and the movingtarget of guidelines and then i
have different client journeysthat a private a b and an a client
are going to come in on becausethere's different ways of getting
pricing back from lenders and ihave three different client
journeys now built for thoseclients and so it puts a different
(06:50):
stress level on my support plusthose clients are coming in on
different journeys understandingall the lender guidelines whereas
i could just shut all that downand identify my avatar and just
now my problem becomes not solvinga b privates it's solving where do
i find my avatar so now i'm goingto build marketing and content and
do my opens and my emails aroundmy avatar and then who has access
to my avatar And I start reverseengineering it.
(07:13):
Which referral partners do I payattention to?
And so, yeah, I chose to solvethat problem.
And I would today dialing in myavatar.
And then I just now have amarketing problem.
I don't have a constant dealproblem where I'm always trying to
be everything to everyone andsolve everyone's problems because
I don't want to let 5K walk outthe door and commission.
Yeah, you're just separating thesignal from the noise there.
And I really like that, too,because also from a lending
(07:35):
perspective, like you get.
really great relationships with
lenders and that's something i seepeople miss out on all the time
too they try to use like 20different monolines like all these
different solutions like pick yourbuddy that you like working with
your designated underwriter thatyou know is going to work on your
file it's going to text you anupdate just send all your business
to that i know like as being abrokerage owner i probably
(07:57):
shouldn't say that because a lotof lenders won't like that but
it's true i'm like there's alender for everyone and there's
someone who's going to vibe withsomeone's way of handling things
and It's just such a betterexperience than trying to use
everyone.
Yeah.
And you see a couple of guys instrategy hub that are taking it
and running with it specificallyon cash damming.
Like they're going all in on theone strategy and you guys teach
(08:21):
maybe five, six differentstrategies.
So even if you're being thatmortgage planner side of things,
you don't have to learn all ofthem.
You can just go deep on one ofthem.
Like if you were brokering, wouldyou do cash damming?
Cause that's like.
Next level mortgage planning.
I feel like there's some easierones in there.
Would you go the cash jammingroute?
No, no, not me.
It's too technical and heavy.
And I'm a marketing guy.
I'm not a technical get in the
weeds on the spreadsheet numberguy.
I get into there to a certaindegree.
I only get into the numbers in thespreadsheet so I can tell stories
(08:45):
from it.
And that's how I frame stories to
my clients is through the numbers.
But the cash damming and the Smith
maneuver and all, it's verytechnical.
I'm not that much of a nerd overthere.
I'm a marketing nerd.
So I'd rather learn enough about a
couple strategies to change theconversation and then put my
marketing nerd hat on and learnhow to identify problems and
solution.
What's the outcome and build
emails and build my content aroundit.
(09:06):
And so that's why I personallywouldn't do cash damming.
Yeah.
So even if you're not doing the
actual strategy, you're stillmarketing around it, attracting
those clients that you really wantto work with.
And worst case, if it's a cashjamming lead that comes in, you've
got that point of contact that issomeone that does cash jamming and
you refer it off for a certaincut.
(09:28):
Yeah, I wouldn't market cashjamming.
Okay.
I actually wouldn't talk about it.
actually wouldn't talk about it.
And on like Team Wiley, we teach
some advanced strategies, but wedon't teach cash jamming.
It's too heavy.
It's too much.
But for the people that are all inon it, it's phenomenal it's
shooting fish in a barrel yeah youhave unlimited prospects you have
unlimited lives you can changeit's just once again i know
(09:49):
there's certain brokers that lackof better words just they're not
smart enough to go figure all thatout yeah it takes a lot like you
have to be diligent you have to bewired a certain way i'm just know
me and my personality i'm notgoing to sit there and learn it
for 30 40 hours i don't careenough to learn that strategy.
It's a different business.
It's a different thing.
And the people that geek out onit, they're lucky because if
(10:11):
they're wired for it, it literallycould change your business
overnight.
No one can compete with you.
Unlimited referral partners.
There's unlimited people with
rentals.
And then there's even people I
know that are stacking strategieson top of cash damming.
And they're using the power of thepaycheck with Manwan.
Or they're using, hey, you want toretire faster.
you don't have a rental well whatif we got you a rental which is
scary in today's day and agebecause of you know obvious
(10:33):
reasons but we're going to layerthe cash damming strategy onto it
so now it makes way more sense foryou to buy a rental just not the
standard buy a rental try to breakeven hopefully it goes up in value
sell it and pay off your mortgagethat's what i did for years that
doesn't work now but if you canget the people to cash damn on it
and they buy into that now you'regetting a refi You're getting a
(10:56):
purchase and you're getting amanagement fee.
You're getting about 20, 25 K perclient with that strategy.
Right.
I love that.
I totally feel what you said aboutcash diving there.
Like I'm not wired for it either.
I spent some time in strategy.
Have I watched a couple of videosand I was like, no, this is sick.
This is super interesting.
And then I'm like, two days later,
(11:18):
I'm like.
It's not that interesting to me.
Like I started playing around withit.
Tom and I are always like, we getamped up on something and we're
just doers, which is reallybeneficial for a lot of areas of
our business.
But like, we've got a webinar
presentation next week with ourrealtor partners on cash.
And we got all this shit that wejust implemented, but both of us
are like, eh, not that into itanymore.
(11:39):
The silver lining is we do have 38realtors so far.
RSVP'd for the info session nextweek.
Some of the realtor partners I wasalready kind of connected with and
I wasn't getting the leads fromthem.
But just by reaching out with thisstrategy, they're starting to send
me leads now.
So it's funny, like you don't
necessarily have to grab thosecash damning leads.
It's just more of that.
foot in the door to rekindle that
(12:01):
relationship or open newrelationships up totally there's
an upside there but i do like justhaving that simple strategy like i
can say i just do stories so i'mlike hey this is what we did to
save a client ten thousand dollarsand here's what we're going to do
to reduce taxes over the next fiveyears then it's like okay i don't
the client doesn't even care whatrvc is offering and that changes
the whole conversation and thenallows us to just do what we do
best so the takeaway of that forme is brokers who aren't an upside
(12:23):
there but i do like just havingthat simple strategy like i can
say i just do stories so i'm likehey this is what we did to save a
client ten thousand dollars andhere's what we're going to do to
reduce taxes over the next fiveyears then it's like okay i don't
the client doesn't even care whatrvc is offering and that changes
the whole conversation and thenallows us to just do what we do
(12:44):
best so the takeaway of that forme is brokers who aren't learning
don't need to learn a ton but theydo need to learn a little bit more
of this planning and pick a lanein which to to plan pick a lane
and then it goes back to one of myfavorite sayings i've ever heard
is brokers get tired of theirmarketing before the market ever
does so just because you talkedabout a debt swap strategy once
lane and then it goes back to oneof my favorite sayings i've ever
(13:05):
heard is brokers get tired oftheir marketing before the market
ever does so just because youtalked about a debt swap strategy
once you should talk about that300 times like that should be what
you talk about and then differentnuances in it and different ways
of how you got there and then theoutcomes of the families and
people you helped and the referralpartners like we just shift gears
right okay now i need a new thingto talk about it's like are you
assuming like every follower sawthat video it resonated with them
they did the call to action thetiming was right in their life
they read your email they openedit it didn't go to spam like
you're hoping like You just checkthe boxes.
No. And that should just be whatyou're known for.
I'm the mortgage planner guy.
I'm the guy that's going to get
you mortgage free as fast aspossible.
I have three buckets of people Ihelp.
And these are the buckets.
And just keep talking about that.
(13:27):
And that is your business for thenext 20 years.
And you just keep going with itand stop getting bored with it
because the market is not.
The market will tell you.
If your volume starts sufferingbecause that's all you're talking
about.
The market's going to tell you,
but the algorithm is going to helpget you in front of people.
Other referral partners, it'sgoing to resonate.
It's going to resonate with theirdatabase, your database.
Just keep going with that.
And that's the biggest mistake I
see brokers make is they'reshifting gears way too fast on
(13:50):
stuff.
Yeah.
I love that.
Cause like, I always like to look
at other industries and see howdoes it layer over?
I always go back to like thefitness industry because I'm like,
people have been talking about howto get six pack abs and fat loss
for like, what, like 30, 40 years.
And they have millions of
subscribers on Instagram.
Everyone fucking watches their
reels.
No one ever does anything, but
they're always consuming thecontent and selling products over
(14:10):
and over again.
It's the same thing.
They're just.
they're talking about it and
meanwhile we talk about one or twothings and we're like okay i've
exhausted that and move on and i'mguilty of it too i've got reverse
mortgage then you're like newconstruction and then you're like
rental and then you're like cashdamming and then you're like
purchase plus then you're likebusiness for self bank said no i
got you covered and then you'relike cottage and then like you're
(14:33):
just like oh my god and it's suchmixed messaging you're giving out
there yet alone your own brain allthe thinking about processing all
that stuff got reverse mortgagethen you're like new construction
and then you're like rental andthen you're like cash damming and
then you're like purchase plusthen you're like business for self
bank said no i got you covered andthen you're like cottage and then
like you're just like oh my godand it's such mixed messaging
(14:54):
you're giving out there yet aloneyour own brain all the thinking
about processing all that stuff istaking you away from actually
doing the shit.
Because you're thinking and you're
planning and you're tweaking andyou just get caught up in this
cycle of those things.
Whereas when I woke up, it was
like for my mortgage business, Iwas like, I get my lunch pile and
I go to work and I punch in andI'm like, I'm going to show people
(15:18):
how to be mortgage free in 10years, retire five years early,
send their kids to college, comeout debt free.
I'm going to write some emailstoday.
Do a webinar.
OK, wake up tomorrow.
Go to lunch.
What are you doing, Ryan?
I'm talking about this.
And everyone else is like
scrambling over here.
And I'm like, what are you?
I'm just going to talk about thisevery time.
Like I wake up.
I know what to do, who to talk to,
(15:38):
what to say.
It's over and over.
And it gets repetitive and boringat some point.
But then you look at your bankaccount and you're like, oh, wow.
I just got 80 grand on Friday.
And you're like, that's cool.
I can use that money to have funnow.
And my wife would say, she's like,so can you just keep doing the
boring shit?Can you stop shifting gears?
We called it operation one emailaddress.
She's like, can you just have oneemail address?
Stop all the other things.
I call that the eating oatmeal.
If you can just get up every day,eat your oatmeal, do your boring
calls, send your texts, do yournon -negotiables list.
We have the prospectors hour everyday.
Even Tom and I, I'm like, we cansee each other's businesses,
obviously because we shareeverything, but like we can see
(16:00):
when the other one's drifting onlike, you're not eating your
oatmeal.
I can tell you sent a brokerage
email during prospectors hour.
Like, what are you doing in there?
received a DM from you todayduring prospectors hour.
That's on my non -negotiables.
on my non -negotiables.
You were one of my brokers.
I sent a DM.
I'm just kidding.
I'll give you a lead, bro.
I sent you actually Wiley's video.
Oh yeah, that's right.
(16:21):
That was what my DM'd you.
So that's kind of funny, actually.
Yeah.
Eating oatmeal.
I like that.
I wrote that down.
Your gym analogy was perfect.
I haven't pieced.
I didn't connect the dots, butyou're so right.
And then there's just like smallnuances like, hey, let's track
macros.
Yeah.
Totally.
Getting healthy.
They're just talking about thesame thing.
Let's get abs.
Let's do the same basic things.
But then sometimes the contentfocuses on how much protein are
(16:43):
you eating?How much protein should you eat
for your body weight and whatyou're doing and active, non
-active?And then the next day, it's like,
how much water are you drinking?How hydrate?
But it's all under the sameumbrella of the same thing.
You're just packaging up thoseconversations from the content and
the emails a little differently.
And you're going down different
rabbit holes all within the sameavatar.
(17:04):
People trying to get.
in shape the solution is the same
eat less move more it really justboils down to that but they can
spin it in so many different waysbecause there are little nuances
to it but it's the same thing withthe mortgage space i mean the
solution is actually more complexon the mortgage side which gives
you even more array of content toshare but i like your example of
how you wake up in the morningyou've got your three things that
(17:25):
you're solving for people andsolution is the same eat less move
more it really just boils down tothat but they can spin it in so
many different ways because thereare little nuances to it but it's
the same thing with the mortgagespace i mean the solution is
actually more complex on themortgage side which gives you even
more array of content to share buti like your example of how you
wake up in the morning you've gotyour three things that you're
solving for people and Justdialing in on that, you can have a
(17:48):
different type of content.
You have a story content.
You have a walkthrough of abudget.
You have so many different waysyou can present that content, even
if it's just boiling down to theone solution that you're
providing.
Maybe someone wants to have the
solution of just becoming mortgage-free faster or increasing your
net worth.
You can go all over the place with
that.
There's no limitations on the
amount of content you can put outthere.
Nope.
Same strategy, same lenders.
Now I would use, it'd be Scotia,Manulife, TD, and one monoline.
(18:10):
Between that and then ratearbitrage, your database mining,
once you build up your book andbouncing people to lenders to say,
you've got a 50 to $80 millionbusiness that is just boring and
you're doing the same thing overand over trying to target the same
people.
A lot of people, they're too close
to it.
They think too small.
I'm in a town of 10 ,000 peopleand I've got... the plumbers and
(18:32):
the people with bad credit andi've got the doctors and i'm
trying to appeal to everybodybecause i'm like a store and i'm
open for business just please comein it's like no no you have the
whole province and i want to helpthis person and internet's given
us that ability with social mediato go find those people there over
and over again and then coming inon your assembly line so i'm super
passionate about that i think it'sa thing I keep talking about, I'm
going to.
We keep focusing on and on Team
Wiley.
It's keeping people in their lane.
And that's a lot of my days.
It's like we're connected on
Slack.
People get access to me every
single day in live meetings, check-in calls, live trainings on
Slack.
They have my cell number.
A lot of my day is helping agentsjust deflect the noise, noise, the
mindset, can't do this, the shinyobjects, deflect stuff.
and stay on point stay focused onbuilding those five foundational
(18:53):
pieces we've identified and justthat's a lot of my day and i
didn't realize that coming in andthat's what a lot of people
appreciate they're like you keepme on task and i was kind of
floating because it's a it's alonely business you're in an
island you're in your officeYou're in Facebook groups.
You're listening to podcasts.
You think everyone else is doing
awesome.
Everyone else is doing great.
Your feed is just covered withmortgage broker stuff coming in
(19:16):
who's doing it really good.
A lot of times you get this self
-doubt creating in and then youget away from the task and you
start wondering if you should bedoing all these things.
And then before you know it, it'sFriday.
You're four or five days later andyour business is no better off.
And so my value add, a big one iskeep you focused.
(19:36):
pick the lane we're going to stayin and then let's fucking stay in
it like shut all the other stuffout and if you're having problems
with it come out to me and i'llhelp you shut it up yeah and i
think you've seen some hugesuccess stories maybe we can touch
on on a few of those like i know isaw someone from tango ontario
post the other day that like theyhad done in three months what they
(19:57):
did the whole previous year i cantell because i followed this
person for a while on social theyare so much more passionate about
their business and like and ithink you've seen some huge
success stories maybe we can touchon on a few of those like i know i
saw someone from tango ontariopost the other day that like they
had done in three months what theydid the whole previous year i can
(20:19):
tell because i followed thisperson for a while on social they
are so much more passionate abouttheir business and like fully
bought in and then i saw anotherone with a guy that was like
thinking of leaving the mortgagespace and now all of a sudden he
(20:39):
did like 11 mil in three monthsand i'm like holy shit like so
like the proof is in the puddingthe results are coming here for
your agents so i think it'sfantastic to see what's driving
that like i know you're you havethat five -step plan is it the
accountability you see or is itjust everyone's like buy -in
you're kind of like a gm with ateam headed for the stanley cup
finals and so you got somethinggoing really right there what do
(21:03):
you think the secret sauce isthere yeah i can feel it too i i
see it as well and there's thingswe're learning i didn't see you
know i'm a guy i can lock myselfin a room shut the lights off
don't bug me i can feel it too i isee it as well and there's things
we're learning i didn't see youknow i'm a guy i can lock myself
in a room shut the lights offdon't bug me pull out my
(21:26):
spreadsheets, get into it, sendsome Zoom, Loom videos.
I could just sit and crushmortgages.
I don't need someone to keep me ontrack.
I don't want to be involved inculture and events and drinks
after work and hanging out.
A lot of people really like that
stuff and appreciate it.
But to answer your question, it
starts at the beginning.
We come in and I just, I clear
everyone's desk.
I clear it and I get all the stuff
off and we build from scratch.
And we put them on point.
(21:46):
Hey, you need to get this, youremail marketing dialed in.
Then we go to your need to getyour database on your rate
tracker.
We need to show up and learn how
to mine.
And then we need to build a
prospecting plan that you're goingto do in 30 to 60 minutes every
day.
Sometimes it's referral partner.
Sometimes it's not.
Sometimes it's end consumer.
And then we're going to build,hey, here's your custom proposal.
Here are some advanced strategies.
This is how you present stories to
clients.
And then other people want to
learn content because that's a bigpiece of their game.
So we spend time on there and wejust keep going.
But over and over the same thingevery week and so when people come
in we're just basically havingthem say no to a lot of things and
yes to one or two things untilit's built and then they move on
and we're providing theenvironment for them to show up
(22:09):
they show up do the work and thenthey get out and then a lot of
times people are like but now whatdo i do nothing you did it so now
go do more of it and nothing andthey're like and you can see the
look in their face and you're likehuh and then you see the people
like you mentioned they show upand just giving them a place to
hang out with other people this isanother big piece i missed you're
(22:32):
at a brokerage typically you'rethere there's so many people on
different wavelengths they're allover the place naturally right
you've got new agents you've got200 million dollar producers, you
have personality differences,people who want to keep everything
the secrets and don't sharescripts in there.
And other people are like, I'llshare everything.
And you got the doers and the notdoers.
And with the team, because it'sthe same constant messaging over
and over and over, everyone is onthe same page as much as they ever
could be.
So you're hanging out with other
people.
who are doing the same thing as
(22:52):
you so very quickly you have a lotof things in common with people
and you can lean into each otherand you can learn from each other
quick and that's a downfall of alot of brokerages because they
don't have a training andmentoring program is you just come
in we have an open door you'rebreathing come on in we need your
volume come on in you might be acancer you might suck resources
you might not want to share likeone of the questions we ask is
will you share everything If Icame to you and said that slide
(23:14):
deck that you just did, like, canyou share it with everybody on the
team?Would you do it?
And if your answer is no, you'renot coming on the team.
The answer is yeah, you shareanything.
Everyone's on the same journey.
And so you can see, and we're
giving the environment where youhang out with other people who are
doing shit.
You're not hanging out with people
who are sitting on twiddling theirthumbs because those people aren't
allowed on the team, right?The cool part is they're not all
(23:36):
on the exact same journey fromlike a client avatar or a business
niche perspective too, which Ithink is really cool because they
could all learn from each other.
Jodi, as an example, she's diving
into commercial and you've gotlike the majority of your agents
probably doing AAA business,but... one might be focused on
content one might be focused moreon like boots on the ground going
to events and meeting referralpartners so yeah the thing i like
(23:58):
too is it's just like we talkedabout having that filter for
clients i feel like there's afilter for agents right now if
you're not the avatar it's not abad thing it's just like you're
not the right fit and i know wehave a lot of phone calls about
this when someone says they wantto join we're like i don't really
know if they're the best fit forthis and we say no sure maybe that
(24:23):
stops the brokerage from growingthe thing i like too is it's just
like we talked about having thatfilter for clients i feel like
there's a filter for agents rightnow if you're not the avatar it's
not a bad thing it's just likeyou're not the right fit and i
know we have a lot of phone callsabout this when someone says they
want to join we're like i don'treally know if they're the best
(24:46):
fit for this and we say no suremaybe that stops the brokerage
from growing crazy fast i actuallydon't think that's the case
because now we're growing fasterbecause we have people that are
all bought in and that all want tobe here and that are all actually
producing agents we don't havethose seat fillers just that we're
collecting the 150 a month deskbefore that's not our goal is not
breaths and heartbeats our goal isactually like agents who want to
(25:10):
work and want to do mortgages soit's fun to be a part of and it's
really fun to see i'm sure you'refeeling very passionate about it
like seeing these agents totallytransformed their lives with the
growth they're experiencing.
Oh yeah.
It's filling cups in my world.
I didn't know I needed filled.
To your point, I like the breathsand heartbeats.
I spend a lot of time with theagents I'm mentoring on my team.
I spend a lot of time one -on-one, one to four, one to 10.
(25:31):
I spend time with them.
I need to want to spend time with
you.
A lot of brokerages, you come in
and it's like, you're a number.
No one has to spend time with you
because it's not their model.
They're not there to mentor you.
every day every week every month iam so i need to like you i need to
like we need to be on the samewavelength because i'm going to
(25:53):
spend time away from my family tohang out with you so like you have
to bring to the party there's gotto be a commitment level a
personality a buy -in because i'mspending so much time other
brokerages and teams They're notdoing that.
And so they have a different mall.
So they can let in everyone
because they can just go like thisor throw like someone on top of
you that you report to andinsulate them.
I'm the guy, which is why we'rehaving so much success because
(26:15):
we've let in the right people.
And so that one story you had of
the guy that was about to leavethe industry.
So he's a guy I've known for acouple of years.
and he has a full -time job overhere and he was been doing
fulfillment for other peoplerunning three four million in
volume never fully committed yesfully committed but then he'd do
some shiny things and then he'slike ryan i'm just gonna leave i'm
just gonna go back to drivingtruck and bringing some more money
plus my regular job and i saidjust give me one year man just
give me one year one year of youdoing the boring things We'll cut
out all the noise.
The end of March, it'll be 11
million.
Could have even been higher.
We screwed up on some things.
He screwed up on something.
He's learning.
And now these conversations to me
are like, holy crap, this is cool.
I'm so busy.
I'm still at my other job.
He's on track.
(26:35):
He'll probably do 30 million thisyear.
And he's like, Ryan, I'm stickingto the plan.
I'm believing in the process.
And I'm like, yes.
And so that gets me, that fills mycup and seeing the other agents
who are saying this.
got me rejuvenated, re -excited
for my mortgage career again.
That fills my cup.
I want to make money.
That's why we start businesses.
Let's not shy away from that.
But there's a lot of other warm
(26:57):
and fuzzy things coming out of itthat I'm learning.
And I'm seeing it play out live.
So it's pretty cool.
What's he doing to get leads in?Is anything game -changing or is
it just basic stuff?Oh, it's all basic stuff.
So number one is we build a VIPrealtor plan.
So we identify realtors that...
currently are sending you business
well let's make sure they keepsending you all their business and
then let's also identify realtorswho know your name but haven't
(27:17):
sent you a lot maybe they've sentyou one -offs so let's build that
list of four five six eight tenand let's build a plan around them
and so some basic stuff there isevery monday they get a lead
tracker lead tracker shows all theleads that that person has sent
you and where they're at in theprocess and what the next step is
(27:38):
so it lets them know that your ontop of things you're running an
actual business it makes them feellike they send a lead to you it
just doesn't go into la -la landand you're like fist pump i got it
man it's okay every monday intheir inbox comes a lead tracker
and it shows their own lead stufffrom a google sheet so we do that
uh number two break bread everyquarter with them get in front of
(28:01):
them for lunch drinks whatever uhso he did that he's done that
three times with people he's nevermet i think he said the other day
there was five or six deals heclosed just from one of those
realtors taking them out for lunchand understanding their business a
little more better and buildingthe relationship it's why you
don't get a lot of deals fromrealtors is you don't your
relationship isn't strong enoughso that's part of it is every
quarter you drive to where they'reat you pick up the tab you set it
(28:24):
up last night funny enough heshowed up to our call this morning
at 6 30.
A little worse for wear.
He was out last night with two ofhis VIP realtors and having some
drinks and he couldn't keep upwith them.
But what came out of it was this,as we dug, I'm like, what'd you
talk about?He's like, well, I showed him the
rate tracker.
And he's like, that's so cool.
You look for ways to save themoney.
He's like, yeah.
He starts thinking, he's like, I
(28:45):
have a database of 3 ,600 people.
And this was his own referral
partner.
What if we got in front and you
did a mortgage audit offer to my 3,600, I have a 40 % open rate.
Is that something you do?And he's like, fuck yeah.
Yeah.
And so now they're planning like a
two email campaign there wherethey're going to put a video
(29:06):
together, introducing the offer.
That wouldn't have happened if he
wasn't sitting there having drinkswith that agent.
They wouldn't have come to termson that.
So that's number two.
There's that.
And then there's another one whereyou do co -content together.
So you got your daily is keepingyour referral partners up to date
on live files and where funding'sat.
You got your weekly, which is thelead tracker, plus the email that
(29:27):
they should be dripped on everyweek from you.
Then you have the monthly, whichis content creation with them.
You build much like this, ask eachother three softball questions,
and then splice it out with AIusing Riverside and give them a 45
second clip with the captions onthat looks like they're on a
podcast, having them as the starof the show.
That's monthly.
Quarterly is breaking bread.
Just those things right there.
(29:48):
Just that.
for your six to 10 VIP realtors.
Game changer for his business.
And then he has the daily non-negotiables and he does 25 opens
every day.
He's got it on a spreadsheet.
He sends me pictures.
He checks in, tells me how many he
does every day.
Basic opens to FAs, realtors,
friends on Facebook, Instagramfollowers.
It's all the stuff you heard andtalk about.
He's just actually doing it andhe's not stopping.
Even when he gets busy, that's thekey.
(30:09):
a lot of brokers get busyprospecting stops so so is their
lead pipeline and then they'reworking on files and then they
come up to breathe they're like idon't have leads ah and so they go
like this whereas the topproducing agents they do money
making habits every morning andit's always like this so that the
lead pipeline is always the sameyeah they never have that roller
coaster of production we alwaystalk about that and it's it's very
(30:32):
easy to fall into especially ifyou don't have the team and system
in place cooking in the backgroundthey never have that roller
coaster of production we alwaystalk about that and it's it's very
easy to fall into especially ifyou don't have the team and system
in place cooking in the backgroundAnd, you know, the gym analogy is
a good one there too.
Like you can cut 20 pounds, but
then you go back to like eatingyour burgers, celebrating your
(30:53):
weight loss.
You're back to where you're at.
And then you got to do the hardstep again.
It's a lot easier to just maintainand nurture that way.
And that belly to belly stuff, I'ma huge believer in it, even for
growing the brokerage too.
But I know when I was growing my
mortgage book, like I drove toSarnia, I got a hotel for a night
and I just got like.
belligerent with a couple of
realtor partners for it was like athree -day bender but these are
(31:13):
still my close partners today as aresult of this and and whether or
not that's the best way to do itit really solidified the
relationships so we got in sometrouble together which is is
always good for building uh long-term friendships now you haven't
drank in like four months fivemonths now yeah no i think i think
to get that next wave of businessi might have to bring it back but
(31:35):
you haven't drank in like fourmonths months now yeah no i think
i think to get that next wave ofbusiness i might have to bring it
back but Can you share why you'renot?
Like, I know why, but can youshare on here?
Yeah, of course.
Some of you may know this, but my
goal is to get Tango to a billiondollars this year, Tango Ontario
specifically.
And so after MPC, we were hung
over in the car and I said to Tom,I'm like, what do you think I
(31:57):
could gain in life, like in mymortgage business and the
brokerage business if I didn'tdrink?
And Tom's like, I don't know.
I don't even want to think about
that right now.
I'm like, dude, I bet you it's an
extra a hundred grand a year, likecash for just my family alone, let
alone yours, let alone for thebusiness growth.
(32:18):
And he's like, wow, when you sayit that way, like it makes every
time we drink really expensive.
And I was like, fuck, yes, it
does.
So I'm like, I'm not going to
drink until we hit a billiondollars.
And he's like, no, you're fucked.
I challenge you.
Yeah.
Christmas coming up.
Your birthday's coming up.
You got all this stuff.
(32:38):
And I was like, no, I'm going todo it.
So now I'm five months in.
We're cooking pretty well on the
mortgage book and the brokerageside is getting there.
A couple of you listeners, comejoin us.
You would help me have anotherbeer.
But yeah, it's worked well.
I drink a lot of non -alcoholic
beers.
Well, we're 300 away, buddy.
So we're almost there.
I love it, love it, man.
Yeah, that's great.
Good for you.
Yeah, I see what you guys arecooking up over there.
(33:01):
It's why we partnered.
I love what you guys are doing.
I think there's a lot of alignmentwith what we're doing and you're
doing.
I see it.
All these things we talk about,they're all in front of you.
And a lot of the times we're justreminding people about them.
Like everything I said there aboutthe VIP realtor plan.
hanging out with people, sendingthem updates on their leads,
create content with them.
This isn't a course you go by.
This isn't a magical thing whereyou're like, oh my God, you know
all these things.
You listening or watching, you
know these things.
I'm just creating an environment,
and I know you guys are too withTangle on Terror.
We identify what these things are,and then that's all we talk about.
(33:24):
So there's not these new thingscoming in, because I know there's
some brokers out there thatthere's always a new thing.
coming and you can't keep up i seethere's two ends of the spectrum
here you got the brokerages thattell you they have training and
you get in and you realize it'sbasically boring training on basic
underwriting stuff and mickeymouse stuff and they bring in
lenders to train you on productsand that's the training and then
(33:46):
you've got these other brokeragesthat have all these things but
there's nowhere in the middlewhere you just someone builds
their core values of what we'regoing to offer as a team or a
brokerage and then we're going tostick to it and seven months from
now if you were to come into acall it would be the same call
we'd be talking about it stillagain and so that's what we've
done we've identified that bothyou guys and us and that's the
number one pain point i see withall mortgage brokers i talk to
They've seen and heard all thethings.
They know the pieces of thepuzzle.
They can't piece it togetherthemselves.
They need a mentor.
(34:07):
They need someone in their ear
who's A, done it, and B, has thecapacity to help them.
They need someone to help do that.
And that's the gap I'm filling and
why I feel like in this, I canpump my own tires here and then we
can switch gears, but I feel likeI'm a unicorn.
I do.
That's one of the emails I wrote
the other day for my drip.
i feel like i built the business
i've coached over a thousandbrokers i'm training a team now
(34:28):
and i don't have my own book abusiness my brokers are my book of
business i feel like to havesomeone that has built it trained
it and loves it wakes up thinkingabout it and isn't competing with
you there's no one out there doingthat it doesn't exist i'm the guy
and that's why i'm so excitedabout what we're doing that's it
enough about me I agree.
I think it's awesome.
And I can see the success.
And I joke about us doing a
(34:48):
billion and not drinking.
fully believe your mortgage team
alone will be over a billionbecause of the value that you're
providing to the marketplace thatway.
On that note, what kind of brokerare you currently looking for?
They probably have a pretty goodindicator from listening to this
call of if they're a right fit,but I know some people thought
there was a certain threshold hereand then other people had an idea
here.
So why don't we just clear the air
(35:10):
on that?Because there's a lot of messages
we get saying, I want to be onteam Wiley, but I don't think I'm
big enough.
Where's that at these days?
Yeah, I love it.
So first it's geographical.
So obviously Ontario for TangoOntario.
You have to be in Ontario, BC,Alberta, Saskatchewan, or
Manitoba.
That's actually grown since last
time we talked.
So let's assume you have a license
there.
I just threw a number of 10
million.
You have to be 10 million or more
(35:32):
to be on.
I had to pick a number.
There's two types of agents I loveworking with.
I love working with the agentswho've been in the business a
couple of years, made 30 grand.
They know the stuff.
They've been punched in the face.
They've had every reason to quit,
but they're 18 to 36 months in andstill standing.
They have no other choice but tomake this work.
(35:52):
Those people with the rightpersonality fit, if you're 5
million, I'll take you.
Not that I'm brand new, can you
take me?No. You're 5 million, you've been
at it for this, and I come in andgo, what have you done?
Who have you taught?What coaching have you done?
What have you implemented?Why isn't it working?
If I understand that, find out alot about people.
(36:13):
They're still standing after twoyears of making 40K and hustling
on a side job.
That tells me a lot about their
character.
That's an avatar of mine.
Eight to 15 mil is a massiveavatar of Team Wiley.
I know we can double or tripleyour business in 12 to 18 months.
And I don't like putting thosetypes of things out there.
I just know those people.
(36:34):
We can get quick wins for you if
you just stick to the plan.
And then I like working with the
other brokers who are in that 15to 30, 40 million range.
And they're like, I know all thethings and I've been doing it for
five, 10 years, but I don't reallyhave a business.
And I couldn't really tell you,Ryan, articulate how I actually
(36:57):
make 300K a year.
It comes in, but I'm still really
nervous if it's even going to comein next year.
I've been doing all the things,but if you were going to come buy
my business and I said, show meyour marketing plan, show me your
business plan, show me thesefoundations, you'd be like, I
don't have any of that.
I just kind of wake up and react.
and deal with the calls and theemails and just do enough to get
(37:18):
the deals going and i'm kind oflike on this freaking hamster
wheel love working with thoseagents because we can just put
structure in and actually stripdown some things build
foundational pieces back bringthem back up and now they have a
40 50 million dollar business thatactually has like structure to it
and it's it's natural business ifsomeone was going to come in and
(37:40):
buy it they'd be like oh okayYeah, yeah.
You've got a list of 1 ,200people.
You've sent them 70 emails a yearfor the last four years.
So you've sent out 30 ,000 emailswith an open rate of 47%.
A click -through rate of 2%.
We know if we send this, we get
this type of book call.
You start to see the different
layers in the journey.
So I love dealing with those types
(38:02):
as well.
And the cherry on top is I see
Courtney and they're building outsome pretty cool shit for you
guys.
Like the drip emails with the
broker mail and it's all like donefor you stuff.
you're just plugging in for allyour agents.
And it's not even like you guysare gouging on splits.
Like Tango has very competitivesplits.
So that's the nice part is they'regetting all of this with really
nice splits.
That part makes me laugh because
sometimes I see like someone,makes me laugh because sometimes I
(38:24):
see like someone, not knocking anybrokers, but like DLC, a
pineapple, whatever.
And I see their split and then
they join Team Wiley and TangoOntario and they get all this
like... added benefit and theyactually get a better split and
they actually get more comp fromour our lender bonuses and they
actually get more lender accessand it's like every part of your
business just got a major upgradeand you make more money it's like
amazing i've had agents say youcould charge double if you want
(38:47):
but the the split grid that teamwiley has is very competitive i
won't go through it but just as anidea 10 to 25 mils 85 50.
get had agents say you couldcharge double if you want but the
the split grid that team wiley hasis very competitive i won't go
through it but just as an idea 10to 25 mils 85 50.
You get me in your corner.
(39:08):
I will personally mentor you.
You get all the things we talkedabout.
Plus you get that done for youstuff that Courtney builds.
She's launching another thing.
We are.
She built it, but it's our ratetrack.
It's called a broker toolkit andit's a one -stop shop.
You give us your database.
We format it on there.
We have a fixed rate section.
We have a variable rate section.
It spits out opportunities andturns green when there's arbitrage
(39:29):
opportunities.
You identify one of those as a
lead.
You just click lead.
It drops into a lead tracker sheeton there.
You put all your prospecting onthere.
It comes with all the built -inscripts for DMs.
emails phone calls all in thereit's hyperlinked on there is a
prospecting scorecard and then ithas all the team wiley resources
on there it's a one -stop shop foreverything you need to prospect
database mine your businessoutside of track live files and
(39:50):
where you're at all the otherthings you need is in this one
broker toolkit and it's gettinglaunched i think today we're just
putting it out it's dope i didn'tknow you guys are doing that
that's awesome you know why we dolet's talk about it we identified
as a team our goal is to makemoney we identified the
bottlenecks on mortgage brokers ofwhat they need to do to make money
i could either coach you on how togo write sales emails and you
(40:13):
should be sending one a week i cancoach you to go do that and then
you have to go do it i know that'snot going to happen from years of
coaching So why don't I just writeyour emails for you and we just
hook up your drip and we hook upthe automation from Calendly and
Finmo right into your master drip.
Why don't we go do that?
(40:34):
Because it's a money -making task.
You make money, we make money.
We had an agent today just go,hey, I love broker mail.
I've had five book calls from itfrom the last couple of emails
going out and he goes, I'm workingon deals.
He's like, that's cool.
And I'm like, yeah, you didn't
have to lift a finger.
And then database mining, if you
had all your database in one spot,and you knew how to mine it and it
(40:57):
was all structured, you could makehundreds of thousands of dollars
and brokers just don't do it.
So we're sitting here going,
instead of us teaching you how togo do it, why don't we just
fucking do it?What for you?
Why don't you give us the data?We'll go do it and then we'll
coach you on how to find theopportunities.
Every week show up and we have adatabase mining day.
So we're doing it selfishlybecause those things create
revenue for the brokers.
(41:17):
which means team wiley makes
revenue so we could sit around andtweak all the other crap in your
business but it doesn't move theneedle so we've identified as our
own team because we're here tomake money what things move the
needle and then we're just doingit for you so that's a big big
focus for team wiley is you win wewin so why don't we just figure
out how we make money and makemore money from you and instead of
(41:38):
us going out and finding a hundrednew agents Why don't we just get
our current agents to increasetheir revenue by 25 %?
I love that.
That's actually one of my frames
that I went into the year withbecause obviously I've got big
financial goals, but I reframeinstead of how can I make more
money?It's how can I make Tom more
money?How can I make Kyle more money?
(41:59):
And thinking like that has helpedme come up with such a clear focus
for my life.
And I love it for the brokerage
side because all you're doing islike, how can Team Wiley make more
money by helping Jody make moremoney, by helping Lisa make more
money?it's pretty cool i'm not going to
dive into the numbers per agentbut i know like our volume per
agent is very high compared tolike the industry standard and
even looking at where people camein and what they reported on our
contract as their volume versuswhere they're at and where they're
projected to go it's very excitingto see that growth there whereas
(42:21):
like we're not growing by becominga thousand agent brokerage we're
growing by becoming a 50 to 200brokerage of like Navy SEAL type
level skills, which is reallycool.
Yeah, the quality of it.
We see teams out there.
We did a billion.
Yeah, you have 300 agents.
I really fucking hope you did.
I really hope you did a billion.
Like that's kind of embarrassing,to be honest.
(42:42):
Someone asked me this the otherday and I'll just put it out
because it's, I don't know, I'mvery open about it.
What's your goal?Like what's the end game for?
team wiley my end game is 100agents 25 million in agent and
right now we're at 35 agents infive to six months so that's my
end goal that's where we're atwhere we're going can it scale
(43:05):
doesn't need to need 100 agentsthat's it that's not a scale 100
agents we can do it and we've gota plan of how everyone will be
taken care of and no one will fallthrough the cracks and feel like
they're a number like a lot ofother places that won't happen but
that's the goal 100 agents 2 .5billion in volume And then we put
it on cruise control.
And we just get better at
(43:26):
increasing it from 25 to 28. 28million to 30 million.
Instead of going from 100 to 200agents.
Who gets in the club gets reallyhard to get in the club after
that.
But 100 agents, 25.
That's our goal.
I know you guys can get there
because all three of us haven'treally been doing too, too much
outgoing prospecting.
It's all been kind of leads coming
in that way, which has been greatbecause I know you're dialing in
everything with Team Wiley first,enhancing the value adds and the
(43:49):
offer, and then you're going tomaybe go out there and prospect.
So yeah, I'm excited to see whatthat's going to look like for you
guys in the near future.
Yeah, we said, how can we go and
market and do all this?when we need to take care of the
people who are trusting us withtheir careers and that partnership
so we need to get that dialed inand just organically we got to
(44:11):
where we got we will put the pedalon the marketing and stuff but
it's not going to be thetraditional pound in the pavement
hobnobbing it with you know drinksand cold calling and you know
hammering you with texts up yourass following you up with like hey
man what's going on what's youknow staying in front of you any
uh It's like, no, you find us.
You come find us.
man what's going It'll groworganically, word of mouth.
(44:32):
That's always how Tango's grown tobeing four and a half.
And it's always been the way andit's going to continue that way.
So Ryan, thank you very much forjumping on today.
It's awesome to have you on ourteam and we're having a lot of fun
growing with you.
So thanks for coming on the
podcast as well and sharing thiswith all of our listeners.
I know a ton of value for peoplewho aren't even in the brokers and
(44:54):
might not ever want to come to us.
Totally fine.
But take away those things wetouched on, those success,
implement it.
That's the number one thing is
just implementing.
So thank you, Ryan.
Love it, guys.
Love you guys, man.
You guys are...
The industry is better off because
of you guys and you're wired.
And, you know, it's all about
finding your people and you guysare definitely my people.
So I'm very glad that we are wherewe're at.
So very, very happy.
(45:15):
So thanks for letting me in the
club.
Thanks, man.
Peace out.
Hello, everyone.
(00:00):
Welcome to this week's episode of
Commission Breath.
Brandon Love here with Tom
Moffitt.
And we got a special guest back
for another episode, Ryan Wiley,head of Team Wiley and one of the
teams under Tango Ontario.
So today we are just going to riff
a little bit, pull back thecurtain on some of the mistakes we
see brokers making, opportunitieswe see for brokers, no matter what
(00:22):
brokerage or team you're on, andjust kind of see where the
conversation takes us.
So Ryan, great to have you on the
pod again.
Welcome.
Awesome.
Thanks, guys.
Thanks for having me.
Always like hanging out with you
guys.
You're my people, as they say.
Nice, man.
We were just riffing before we
started this and we were thinkingof kind of the touch points we
want to touch on today.
And we have so many different
angles we can go here with youbecause you've got your hands on a
(00:43):
lot of different things in thebroker community.
I mean, you've got Strategy Hub,you've got your team, you've got
VIP Club.
So we figured you've got this big
circle of mortgage brokers you'reworking with, that you're
coaching.
So you've got your finger on the
pulse with a lot of differenttopics.
activities that brokers are doing.
So we figured we'd ask you, like,
what are the most common eitherpitfalls or things that brokers
are succeeding with in today'senvironment?
Yeah, yeah.
(01:04):
Great question.
And you're right.
I get to look under the hood of a
lot of brokers' businesses, andthere's a lot of common themes
that start happening, much likewith, you know, Scotia has the
best interest rate, and then theydon't.
Yeah.
And then TD has the best, and then
they don't.
It goes in ebbs and flows like
this.
and so on the broker side i see
what's working for people andwhat's not working for people is i
think the common theme is a lot ofbrokers are getting crushed by the
(01:27):
bank that's sort of always beenthe case but it feels like it's
more in your face now and mygeneral sense is the banks were
always there you usually never hadthe best interest rate at least
the last three four years for sureespecially on uninsured stuff but
of always been the case but itfeels like it's more in your face
now and my general sense is thebanks were always there you
usually never had the bestinterest rate at least the last
three four years for sureespecially on uninsured stuff but
It's more of a common theme.
And the reason it's a common
theme, I'm thinking, or I know, isbecause a lot of brokers are,
instead of them stepping back andgoing, why did I lose that file?
(01:49):
Like, why did they leave me for20, 30 basis points?
They're not reflecting back andgoing, how can I fix that for next
time?And so they keep looking for
shortcuts and cheat codes.
You will always get crushed by the
bank.
That's never freaking going away.
So what are you going to do aboutit?
And if you think that because youpick up your phone, quicker than
the bank does and because you putthem in a variable instead of a
(02:11):
fix because of ird penalties likeif you're using the brokering
mentality of five six seven eightten years ago that you just hang
around enough and you're warm andfuzzy like the landscape that has
shifted drastically you now needto change the conversation away
from price and product and aroundmore planning and i just see a lot
of brokers they're sinking outthere because they're caught up on
that hamster wheel of interestrate, interest rate, interest
(02:34):
rate, interest rate.
And usually they reach out to me
and they're like, hey, Ryan, whathappened here?
I lost.
I'm like, oh man, if I reverse
engineer the whole journey, yourwhole mindset, how they came into
your world, what conveyor belt didthey come in on?
Did they have your wow email tostart out with?
Did you tell them how you getpaid?
Did you ask them if they'recommitted to working with you?
(02:55):
Did you provide a custom proposal?Did you show them?
options outside of what they cameto you with or were you just an
order taker like did you set thetable ongoing like you were always
going to lose that deal you justdidn't realize i knew you were
going to hold it all starts fromthe beginning discovery call like
you can weed out those rateshoppers right away and even so
like you can give them your valueadds in that upfront call hold it
(03:16):
all starts from the beginningdiscovery call like you can weed
out those rate shoppers right awayand even so like you can give them
your value adds in that upfrontcall Like you were primarily in
the A space when you werebrokering.
If you were coming back into thebroker space, like as a broker,
would you be focusing on beingprivate or would you still stick
to the A side but have more ofthat advanced mortgage planning
side of it?100%, I would be A. So my model, I
want to be up against the banks.
And a lot of it's because the
clientele it attracts.
Think about it like this.
The model I had, we used threelenders, Scotia, TD, and MCAP.
(03:37):
mcap was just the monoline we useyou can insert any monoline there
we use three lenders if wecouldn't do the deal we referred
it out took 25 took a referral feebut if i set up my business to
only deal with eight people i haveto first figure out who my avatar
was so and then i reverse engineera marketing plan out of that and
so i did it was john and sallysmith 250 000 household income
(03:57):
white -collar professional valuestime over money has young kids
owns a home with some equity in itdoesn't know how their kids are
going to go to college feels likethey're never ahead always
wondering why their friends arefinancially further ahead doesn't
know when they're going to retireeven though they're making 250
household that was my avatar sothen when i come in and solve
those problems for them they willgladly work with me because i'm a
white glove concierge stylebusiness i'm a professional
(04:19):
they're willing to pay the premiumbecause i'm going to save them a
lot of money down the road now allthose files coming in i know where
they go now i don't need to hirean underwriter because i can hire
fulfillment but i don't need topay 80 000 plus bonus or whatever
for a skilled underwriter i canhave a fulfillment person run my
files for 500 to file andeverything's cookie cutter coming
(04:39):
in so now there's less stress onthe team i know the objections
they're going to have up front iknow how to handle the objections
in all of my marketing all of mycontent i know the content to make
it's to solve the problem of myavatar i know my emails to write
it takes away so much pressure andguessing on my whole business
model if i keep it to the oneavatar but i'm still going to get
(05:01):
other deals that come in and theni just choose if i let them in the
front door or not doesn't mean i'mnot going to get b deals because
i'm only talking to my avatar butthat's personally what i would do
i want my competitor to be thebank because i'm just going to do
a way better job at it than theyare Yeah, I think doing that gives
(05:22):
you an opportunity to get in thatflow state with your work, with
your client.
You know, everything's A.
Everything's going to go.
Like you said, this domino is
going to fall.
The next one's going to fall.
Everything is just, okay, I know Ihave to do this.
I wake up in the morning.
I stick to the plan.
And so many people are all overthe map is one of the common
(05:43):
themes we see for people.
But additionally, going back, it
then allows you to pick up astrategy like the cascade strategy
or do something like cash dammingand learn that.
And I think a lot of where brokersget overwhelmed is they feel like
they're drinking from a fire hosebecause they're like, I need to
solve a hundred problems for ahundred different clients, a
hundred different avatars, insteadof saying, okay, I'm competing
with rbc on this file why don't ilearn the cascade strategy set
them up put this in place and ican show them the value of that
(06:05):
and that's always going to winversus okay i need to have this
strategy for getting someone fromprivate to b to a in the three
-year time horizon totallydifferent strategies and different
game plan and you can do that it'sgoing to take you a long time and
you're going to miss all theopportunity that you can just pour
into prospecting marketingbuilding a business you actually
want yeah yeah you know the man ihave to pick a problem to solve so
(06:29):
my problem could be i can picksolve all these different files on
my plate and understand b lendersand private lenders and make
relationships and the movingtarget of guidelines and then i
have different client journeysthat a private a b and an a client
are going to come in on becausethere's different ways of getting
pricing back from lenders and ihave three different client
journeys now built for thoseclients and so it puts a different
(06:50):
stress level on my support plusthose clients are coming in on
different journeys understandingall the lender guidelines whereas
i could just shut all that downand identify my avatar and just
now my problem becomes not solvinga b privates it's solving where do
i find my avatar so now i'm goingto build marketing and content and
do my opens and my emails aroundmy avatar and then who has access
to my avatar And I start reverseengineering it.
(07:13):
Which referral partners do I payattention to?
And so, yeah, I chose to solvethat problem.
And I would today dialing in myavatar.
And then I just now have amarketing problem.
I don't have a constant dealproblem where I'm always trying to
be everything to everyone andsolve everyone's problems because
I don't want to let 5K walk outthe door and commission.
Yeah, you're just separating thesignal from the noise there.
And I really like that, too,because also from a lending
(07:35):
perspective, like you get.
really great relationships with
lenders and that's something i seepeople miss out on all the time
too they try to use like 20different monolines like all these
different solutions like pick yourbuddy that you like working with
your designated underwriter thatyou know is going to work on your
file it's going to text you anupdate just send all your business
to that i know like as being abrokerage owner i probably
(07:57):
shouldn't say that because a lotof lenders won't like that but
it's true i'm like there's alender for everyone and there's
someone who's going to vibe withsomeone's way of handling things
and It's just such a betterexperience than trying to use
everyone.
Yeah.
And you see a couple of guys instrategy hub that are taking it
and running with it specificallyon cash damming.
Like they're going all in on theone strategy and you guys teach
(08:21):
maybe five, six differentstrategies.
So even if you're being thatmortgage planner side of things,
you don't have to learn all ofthem.
You can just go deep on one ofthem.
Like if you were brokering, wouldyou do cash damming?
Cause that's like.
Next level mortgage planning.
I feel like there's some easierones in there.
Would you go the cash jammingroute?
No, no, not me.
It's too technical and heavy.
And I'm a marketing guy.
I'm not a technical get in the
weeds on the spreadsheet numberguy.
I get into there to a certaindegree.
I only get into the numbers in thespreadsheet so I can tell stories
(08:45):
from it.
And that's how I frame stories to
my clients is through the numbers.
But the cash damming and the Smith
maneuver and all, it's verytechnical.
I'm not that much of a nerd overthere.
I'm a marketing nerd.
So I'd rather learn enough about a
couple strategies to change theconversation and then put my
marketing nerd hat on and learnhow to identify problems and
solution.
What's the outcome and build
emails and build my content aroundit.
(09:06):
And so that's why I personallywouldn't do cash damming.
Yeah.
So even if you're not doing the
actual strategy, you're stillmarketing around it, attracting
those clients that you really wantto work with.
And worst case, if it's a cashjamming lead that comes in, you've
got that point of contact that issomeone that does cash jamming and
you refer it off for a certaincut.
(09:28):
Yeah, I wouldn't market cashjamming.
Okay.
I actually wouldn't talk about it.
actually wouldn't talk about it.
And on like Team Wiley, we teach
some advanced strategies, but wedon't teach cash jamming.
It's too heavy.
It's too much.
But for the people that are all inon it, it's phenomenal it's
shooting fish in a barrel yeah youhave unlimited prospects you have
unlimited lives you can changeit's just once again i know
(09:49):
there's certain brokers that lackof better words just they're not
smart enough to go figure all thatout yeah it takes a lot like you
have to be diligent you have to bewired a certain way i'm just know
me and my personality i'm notgoing to sit there and learn it
for 30 40 hours i don't careenough to learn that strategy.
It's a different business.
It's a different thing.
And the people that geek out onit, they're lucky because if
(10:11):
they're wired for it, it literallycould change your business
overnight.
No one can compete with you.
Unlimited referral partners.
There's unlimited people with
rentals.
And then there's even people I
know that are stacking strategieson top of cash damming.
And they're using the power of thepaycheck with Manwan.
Or they're using, hey, you want toretire faster.
you don't have a rental well whatif we got you a rental which is
scary in today's day and agebecause of you know obvious
(10:33):
reasons but we're going to layerthe cash damming strategy onto it
so now it makes way more sense foryou to buy a rental just not the
standard buy a rental try to breakeven hopefully it goes up in value
sell it and pay off your mortgagethat's what i did for years that
doesn't work now but if you canget the people to cash damn on it
and they buy into that now you'regetting a refi You're getting a
(10:56):
purchase and you're getting amanagement fee.
You're getting about 20, 25 K perclient with that strategy.
Right.
I love that.
I totally feel what you said aboutcash diving there.
Like I'm not wired for it either.
I spent some time in strategy.
Have I watched a couple of videosand I was like, no, this is sick.
This is super interesting.
And then I'm like, two days later,
(11:18):
I'm like.
It's not that interesting to me.
Like I started playing around withit.
Tom and I are always like, we getamped up on something and we're
just doers, which is reallybeneficial for a lot of areas of
our business.
But like, we've got a webinar
presentation next week with ourrealtor partners on cash.
And we got all this shit that wejust implemented, but both of us
are like, eh, not that into itanymore.
(11:39):
The silver lining is we do have 38realtors so far.
RSVP'd for the info session nextweek.
Some of the realtor partners I wasalready kind of connected with and
I wasn't getting the leads fromthem.
But just by reaching out with thisstrategy, they're starting to send
me leads now.
So it's funny, like you don't
necessarily have to grab thosecash damning leads.
It's just more of that.
foot in the door to rekindle that
(12:01):
relationship or open newrelationships up totally there's
an upside there but i do like justhaving that simple strategy like i
can say i just do stories so i'mlike hey this is what we did to
save a client ten thousand dollarsand here's what we're going to do
to reduce taxes over the next fiveyears then it's like okay i don't
the client doesn't even care whatrvc is offering and that changes
the whole conversation and thenallows us to just do what we do
best so the takeaway of that forme is brokers who aren't an upside
(12:23):
there but i do like just havingthat simple strategy like i can
say i just do stories so i'm likehey this is what we did to save a
client ten thousand dollars andhere's what we're going to do to
reduce taxes over the next fiveyears then it's like okay i don't
the client doesn't even care whatrvc is offering and that changes
the whole conversation and thenallows us to just do what we do
(12:44):
best so the takeaway of that forme is brokers who aren't learning
don't need to learn a ton but theydo need to learn a little bit more
of this planning and pick a lanein which to to plan pick a lane
and then it goes back to one of myfavorite sayings i've ever heard
is brokers get tired of theirmarketing before the market ever
does so just because you talkedabout a debt swap strategy once
lane and then it goes back to oneof my favorite sayings i've ever
(13:05):
heard is brokers get tired oftheir marketing before the market
ever does so just because youtalked about a debt swap strategy
once you should talk about that300 times like that should be what
you talk about and then differentnuances in it and different ways
of how you got there and then theoutcomes of the families and
people you helped and the referralpartners like we just shift gears
right okay now i need a new thingto talk about it's like are you
assuming like every follower sawthat video it resonated with them
they did the call to action thetiming was right in their life
they read your email they openedit it didn't go to spam like
you're hoping like You just checkthe boxes.
No. And that should just be whatyou're known for.
I'm the mortgage planner guy.
I'm the guy that's going to get
you mortgage free as fast aspossible.
I have three buckets of people Ihelp.
And these are the buckets.
And just keep talking about that.
(13:27):
And that is your business for thenext 20 years.
And you just keep going with itand stop getting bored with it
because the market is not.
The market will tell you.
If your volume starts sufferingbecause that's all you're talking
about.
The market's going to tell you,
but the algorithm is going to helpget you in front of people.
Other referral partners, it'sgoing to resonate.
It's going to resonate with theirdatabase, your database.
Just keep going with that.
And that's the biggest mistake I
see brokers make is they'reshifting gears way too fast on
(13:50):
stuff.
Yeah.
I love that.
Cause like, I always like to look
at other industries and see howdoes it layer over?
I always go back to like thefitness industry because I'm like,
people have been talking about howto get six pack abs and fat loss
for like, what, like 30, 40 years.
And they have millions of
subscribers on Instagram.
Everyone fucking watches their
reels.
No one ever does anything, but
they're always consuming thecontent and selling products over
(14:10):
and over again.
It's the same thing.
They're just.
they're talking about it and
meanwhile we talk about one or twothings and we're like okay i've
exhausted that and move on and i'mguilty of it too i've got reverse
mortgage then you're like newconstruction and then you're like
rental and then you're like cashdamming and then you're like
purchase plus then you're likebusiness for self bank said no i
got you covered and then you'relike cottage and then like you're
(14:33):
just like oh my god and it's suchmixed messaging you're giving out
there yet alone your own brain allthe thinking about processing all
that stuff got reverse mortgagethen you're like new construction
and then you're like rental andthen you're like cash damming and
then you're like purchase plusthen you're like business for self
bank said no i got you covered andthen you're like cottage and then
like you're just like oh my godand it's such mixed messaging
(14:54):
you're giving out there yet aloneyour own brain all the thinking
about processing all that stuff istaking you away from actually
doing the shit.
Because you're thinking and you're
planning and you're tweaking andyou just get caught up in this
cycle of those things.
Whereas when I woke up, it was
like for my mortgage business, Iwas like, I get my lunch pile and
I go to work and I punch in andI'm like, I'm going to show people
(15:18):
how to be mortgage free in 10years, retire five years early,
send their kids to college, comeout debt free.
I'm going to write some emailstoday.
Do a webinar.
OK, wake up tomorrow.
Go to lunch.
What are you doing, Ryan?
I'm talking about this.
And everyone else is like
scrambling over here.
And I'm like, what are you?
I'm just going to talk about thisevery time.
Like I wake up.
I know what to do, who to talk to,
(15:38):
what to say.
It's over and over.
And it gets repetitive and boringat some point.
But then you look at your bankaccount and you're like, oh, wow.
I just got 80 grand on Friday.
And you're like, that's cool.
I can use that money to have funnow.
And my wife would say, she's like,so can you just keep doing the
boring shit?Can you stop shifting gears?
We called it operation one emailaddress.
She's like, can you just have oneemail address?
Stop all the other things.
I call that the eating oatmeal.
If you can just get up every day,eat your oatmeal, do your boring
calls, send your texts, do yournon -negotiables list.
We have the prospectors hour everyday.
Even Tom and I, I'm like, we cansee each other's businesses,
obviously because we shareeverything, but like we can see
(16:00):
when the other one's drifting onlike, you're not eating your
oatmeal.
I can tell you sent a brokerage
email during prospectors hour.
Like, what are you doing in there?
received a DM from you todayduring prospectors hour.
That's on my non -negotiables.
on my non -negotiables.
You were one of my brokers.
I sent a DM.
I'm just kidding.
I'll give you a lead, bro.
I sent you actually Wiley's video.
Oh yeah, that's right.
(16:21):
That was what my DM'd you.
So that's kind of funny, actually.
Yeah.
Eating oatmeal.
I like that.
I wrote that down.
Your gym analogy was perfect.
I haven't pieced.
I didn't connect the dots, butyou're so right.
And then there's just like smallnuances like, hey, let's track
macros.
Yeah.
Totally.
Getting healthy.
They're just talking about thesame thing.
Let's get abs.
Let's do the same basic things.
But then sometimes the contentfocuses on how much protein are
(16:43):
you eating?How much protein should you eat
for your body weight and whatyou're doing and active, non
-active?And then the next day, it's like,
how much water are you drinking?How hydrate?
But it's all under the sameumbrella of the same thing.
You're just packaging up thoseconversations from the content and
the emails a little differently.
And you're going down different
rabbit holes all within the sameavatar.
(17:04):
People trying to get.
in shape the solution is the same
eat less move more it really justboils down to that but they can
spin it in so many different waysbecause there are little nuances
to it but it's the same thing withthe mortgage space i mean the
solution is actually more complexon the mortgage side which gives
you even more array of content toshare but i like your example of
how you wake up in the morningyou've got your three things that
(17:25):
you're solving for people andsolution is the same eat less move
more it really just boils down tothat but they can spin it in so
many different ways because thereare little nuances to it but it's
the same thing with the mortgagespace i mean the solution is
actually more complex on themortgage side which gives you even
more array of content to share buti like your example of how you
wake up in the morning you've gotyour three things that you're
solving for people and Justdialing in on that, you can have a
(17:48):
different type of content.
You have a story content.
You have a walkthrough of abudget.
You have so many different waysyou can present that content, even
if it's just boiling down to theone solution that you're
providing.
Maybe someone wants to have the
solution of just becoming mortgage-free faster or increasing your
net worth.
You can go all over the place with
that.
There's no limitations on the
amount of content you can put outthere.
Nope.
Same strategy, same lenders.
Now I would use, it'd be Scotia,Manulife, TD, and one monoline.
(18:10):
Between that and then ratearbitrage, your database mining,
once you build up your book andbouncing people to lenders to say,
you've got a 50 to $80 millionbusiness that is just boring and
you're doing the same thing overand over trying to target the same
people.
A lot of people, they're too close
to it.
They think too small.
I'm in a town of 10 ,000 peopleand I've got... the plumbers and
(18:32):
the people with bad credit andi've got the doctors and i'm
trying to appeal to everybodybecause i'm like a store and i'm
open for business just please comein it's like no no you have the
whole province and i want to helpthis person and internet's given
us that ability with social mediato go find those people there over
and over again and then coming inon your assembly line so i'm super
passionate about that i think it'sa thing I keep talking about, I'm
going to.
We keep focusing on and on Team
Wiley.
It's keeping people in their lane.
And that's a lot of my days.
It's like we're connected on
Slack.
People get access to me every
single day in live meetings, check-in calls, live trainings on
Slack.
They have my cell number.
A lot of my day is helping agentsjust deflect the noise, noise, the
mindset, can't do this, the shinyobjects, deflect stuff.
and stay on point stay focused onbuilding those five foundational
(18:53):
pieces we've identified and justthat's a lot of my day and i
didn't realize that coming in andthat's what a lot of people
appreciate they're like you keepme on task and i was kind of
floating because it's a it's alonely business you're in an
island you're in your officeYou're in Facebook groups.
You're listening to podcasts.
You think everyone else is doing
awesome.
Everyone else is doing great.
Your feed is just covered withmortgage broker stuff coming in
(19:16):
who's doing it really good.
A lot of times you get this self
-doubt creating in and then youget away from the task and you
start wondering if you should bedoing all these things.
And then before you know it, it'sFriday.
You're four or five days later andyour business is no better off.
And so my value add, a big one iskeep you focused.
(19:36):
pick the lane we're going to stayin and then let's fucking stay in
it like shut all the other stuffout and if you're having problems
with it come out to me and i'llhelp you shut it up yeah and i
think you've seen some hugesuccess stories maybe we can touch
on on a few of those like i know isaw someone from tango ontario
post the other day that like theyhad done in three months what they
(19:57):
did the whole previous year i cantell because i followed this
person for a while on social theyare so much more passionate about
their business and like and ithink you've seen some huge
success stories maybe we can touchon on a few of those like i know i
saw someone from tango ontariopost the other day that like they
had done in three months what theydid the whole previous year i can
(20:19):
tell because i followed thisperson for a while on social they
are so much more passionate abouttheir business and like fully
bought in and then i saw anotherone with a guy that was like
thinking of leaving the mortgagespace and now all of a sudden he
(20:39):
did like 11 mil in three monthsand i'm like holy shit like so
like the proof is in the puddingthe results are coming here for
your agents so i think it'sfantastic to see what's driving
that like i know you're you havethat five -step plan is it the
accountability you see or is itjust everyone's like buy -in
you're kind of like a gm with ateam headed for the stanley cup
finals and so you got somethinggoing really right there what do
(21:03):
you think the secret sauce isthere yeah i can feel it too i i
see it as well and there's thingswe're learning i didn't see you
know i'm a guy i can lock myselfin a room shut the lights off
don't bug me i can feel it too i isee it as well and there's things
we're learning i didn't see youknow i'm a guy i can lock myself
in a room shut the lights offdon't bug me pull out my
(21:26):
spreadsheets, get into it, sendsome Zoom, Loom videos.
I could just sit and crushmortgages.
I don't need someone to keep me ontrack.
I don't want to be involved inculture and events and drinks
after work and hanging out.
A lot of people really like that
stuff and appreciate it.
But to answer your question, it
starts at the beginning.
We come in and I just, I clear
everyone's desk.
I clear it and I get all the stuff
off and we build from scratch.
And we put them on point.
(21:46):
Hey, you need to get this, youremail marketing dialed in.
Then we go to your need to getyour database on your rate
tracker.
We need to show up and learn how
to mine.
And then we need to build a
prospecting plan that you're goingto do in 30 to 60 minutes every
day.
Sometimes it's referral partner.
Sometimes it's not.
Sometimes it's end consumer.
And then we're going to build,hey, here's your custom proposal.
Here are some advanced strategies.
This is how you present stories to
clients.
And then other people want to
learn content because that's a bigpiece of their game.
So we spend time on there and wejust keep going.
But over and over the same thingevery week and so when people come
in we're just basically havingthem say no to a lot of things and
yes to one or two things untilit's built and then they move on
and we're providing theenvironment for them to show up
(22:09):
they show up do the work and thenthey get out and then a lot of
times people are like but now whatdo i do nothing you did it so now
go do more of it and nothing andthey're like and you can see the
look in their face and you're likehuh and then you see the people
like you mentioned they show upand just giving them a place to
hang out with other people this isanother big piece i missed you're
(22:32):
at a brokerage typically you'rethere there's so many people on
different wavelengths they're allover the place naturally right
you've got new agents you've got200 million dollar producers, you
have personality differences,people who want to keep everything
the secrets and don't sharescripts in there.
And other people are like, I'llshare everything.
And you got the doers and the notdoers.
And with the team, because it'sthe same constant messaging over
and over and over, everyone is onthe same page as much as they ever
could be.
So you're hanging out with other
people.
who are doing the same thing as
(22:52):
you so very quickly you have a lotof things in common with people
and you can lean into each otherand you can learn from each other
quick and that's a downfall of alot of brokerages because they
don't have a training andmentoring program is you just come
in we have an open door you'rebreathing come on in we need your
volume come on in you might be acancer you might suck resources
you might not want to share likeone of the questions we ask is
will you share everything If Icame to you and said that slide
(23:14):
deck that you just did, like, canyou share it with everybody on the
team?Would you do it?
And if your answer is no, you'renot coming on the team.
The answer is yeah, you shareanything.
Everyone's on the same journey.
And so you can see, and we're
giving the environment where youhang out with other people who are
doing shit.
You're not hanging out with people
who are sitting on twiddling theirthumbs because those people aren't
allowed on the team, right?The cool part is they're not all
(23:36):
on the exact same journey fromlike a client avatar or a business
niche perspective too, which Ithink is really cool because they
could all learn from each other.
Jodi, as an example, she's diving
into commercial and you've gotlike the majority of your agents
probably doing AAA business,but... one might be focused on
content one might be focused moreon like boots on the ground going
to events and meeting referralpartners so yeah the thing i like
(23:58):
too is it's just like we talkedabout having that filter for
clients i feel like there's afilter for agents right now if
you're not the avatar it's not abad thing it's just like you're
not the right fit and i know wehave a lot of phone calls about
this when someone says they wantto join we're like i don't really
know if they're the best fit forthis and we say no sure maybe that
(24:23):
stops the brokerage from growingthe thing i like too is it's just
like we talked about having thatfilter for clients i feel like
there's a filter for agents rightnow if you're not the avatar it's
not a bad thing it's just likeyou're not the right fit and i
know we have a lot of phone callsabout this when someone says they
want to join we're like i don'treally know if they're the best
(24:46):
fit for this and we say no suremaybe that stops the brokerage
from growing crazy fast i actuallydon't think that's the case
because now we're growing fasterbecause we have people that are
all bought in and that all want tobe here and that are all actually
producing agents we don't havethose seat fillers just that we're
collecting the 150 a month deskbefore that's not our goal is not
breaths and heartbeats our goal isactually like agents who want to
(25:10):
work and want to do mortgages soit's fun to be a part of and it's
really fun to see i'm sure you'refeeling very passionate about it
like seeing these agents totallytransformed their lives with the
growth they're experiencing.
Oh yeah.
It's filling cups in my world.
I didn't know I needed filled.
To your point, I like the breathsand heartbeats.
I spend a lot of time with theagents I'm mentoring on my team.
I spend a lot of time one -on-one, one to four, one to 10.
(25:31):
I spend time with them.
I need to want to spend time with
you.
A lot of brokerages, you come in
and it's like, you're a number.
No one has to spend time with you
because it's not their model.
They're not there to mentor you.
every day every week every month iam so i need to like you i need to
like we need to be on the samewavelength because i'm going to
(25:53):
spend time away from my family tohang out with you so like you have
to bring to the party there's gotto be a commitment level a
personality a buy -in because i'mspending so much time other
brokerages and teams They're notdoing that.
And so they have a different mall.
So they can let in everyone
because they can just go like thisor throw like someone on top of
you that you report to andinsulate them.
I'm the guy, which is why we'rehaving so much success because
(26:15):
we've let in the right people.
And so that one story you had of
the guy that was about to leavethe industry.
So he's a guy I've known for acouple of years.
and he has a full -time job overhere and he was been doing
fulfillment for other peoplerunning three four million in
volume never fully committed yesfully committed but then he'd do
some shiny things and then he'slike ryan i'm just gonna leave i'm
just gonna go back to drivingtruck and bringing some more money
plus my regular job and i saidjust give me one year man just
give me one year one year of youdoing the boring things We'll cut
out all the noise.
The end of March, it'll be 11
million.
Could have even been higher.
We screwed up on some things.
He screwed up on something.
He's learning.
And now these conversations to me
are like, holy crap, this is cool.
I'm so busy.
I'm still at my other job.
He's on track.
(26:35):
He'll probably do 30 million thisyear.
And he's like, Ryan, I'm stickingto the plan.
I'm believing in the process.
And I'm like, yes.
And so that gets me, that fills mycup and seeing the other agents
who are saying this.
got me rejuvenated, re -excited
for my mortgage career again.
That fills my cup.
I want to make money.
That's why we start businesses.
Let's not shy away from that.
But there's a lot of other warm
(26:57):
and fuzzy things coming out of itthat I'm learning.
And I'm seeing it play out live.
So it's pretty cool.
What's he doing to get leads in?Is anything game -changing or is
it just basic stuff?Oh, it's all basic stuff.
So number one is we build a VIPrealtor plan.
So we identify realtors that...
currently are sending you business
well let's make sure they keepsending you all their business and
then let's also identify realtorswho know your name but haven't
(27:17):
sent you a lot maybe they've sentyou one -offs so let's build that
list of four five six eight tenand let's build a plan around them
and so some basic stuff there isevery monday they get a lead
tracker lead tracker shows all theleads that that person has sent
you and where they're at in theprocess and what the next step is
(27:38):
so it lets them know that your ontop of things you're running an
actual business it makes them feellike they send a lead to you it
just doesn't go into la -la landand you're like fist pump i got it
man it's okay every monday intheir inbox comes a lead tracker
and it shows their own lead stufffrom a google sheet so we do that
uh number two break bread everyquarter with them get in front of
(28:01):
them for lunch drinks whatever uhso he did that he's done that
three times with people he's nevermet i think he said the other day
there was five or six deals heclosed just from one of those
realtors taking them out for lunchand understanding their business a
little more better and buildingthe relationship it's why you
don't get a lot of deals fromrealtors is you don't your
relationship isn't strong enoughso that's part of it is every
quarter you drive to where they'reat you pick up the tab you set it
(28:24):
up last night funny enough heshowed up to our call this morning
at 6 30.
A little worse for wear.
He was out last night with two ofhis VIP realtors and having some
drinks and he couldn't keep upwith them.
But what came out of it was this,as we dug, I'm like, what'd you
talk about?He's like, well, I showed him the
rate tracker.
And he's like, that's so cool.
You look for ways to save themoney.
He's like, yeah.
He starts thinking, he's like, I
(28:45):
have a database of 3 ,600 people.
And this was his own referral
partner.
What if we got in front and you
did a mortgage audit offer to my 3,600, I have a 40 % open rate.
Is that something you do?And he's like, fuck yeah.
Yeah.
And so now they're planning like a
two email campaign there wherethey're going to put a video
(29:06):
together, introducing the offer.
That wouldn't have happened if he
wasn't sitting there having drinkswith that agent.
They wouldn't have come to termson that.
So that's number two.
There's that.
And then there's another one whereyou do co -content together.
So you got your daily is keepingyour referral partners up to date
on live files and where funding'sat.
You got your weekly, which is thelead tracker, plus the email that
(29:27):
they should be dripped on everyweek from you.
Then you have the monthly, whichis content creation with them.
You build much like this, ask eachother three softball questions,
and then splice it out with AIusing Riverside and give them a 45
second clip with the captions onthat looks like they're on a
podcast, having them as the starof the show.
That's monthly.
Quarterly is breaking bread.
Just those things right there.
(29:48):
Just that.
for your six to 10 VIP realtors.
Game changer for his business.
And then he has the daily non-negotiables and he does 25 opens
every day.
He's got it on a spreadsheet.
He sends me pictures.
He checks in, tells me how many he
does every day.
Basic opens to FAs, realtors,
friends on Facebook, Instagramfollowers.
It's all the stuff you heard andtalk about.
He's just actually doing it andhe's not stopping.
Even when he gets busy, that's thekey.
(30:09):
a lot of brokers get busyprospecting stops so so is their
lead pipeline and then they'reworking on files and then they
come up to breathe they're like idon't have leads ah and so they go
like this whereas the topproducing agents they do money
making habits every morning andit's always like this so that the
lead pipeline is always the sameyeah they never have that roller
coaster of production we alwaystalk about that and it's it's very
(30:32):
easy to fall into especially ifyou don't have the team and system
in place cooking in the backgroundthey never have that roller
coaster of production we alwaystalk about that and it's it's very
easy to fall into especially ifyou don't have the team and system
in place cooking in the backgroundAnd, you know, the gym analogy is
a good one there too.
Like you can cut 20 pounds, but
then you go back to like eatingyour burgers, celebrating your
(30:53):
weight loss.
You're back to where you're at.
And then you got to do the hardstep again.
It's a lot easier to just maintainand nurture that way.
And that belly to belly stuff, I'ma huge believer in it, even for
growing the brokerage too.
But I know when I was growing my
mortgage book, like I drove toSarnia, I got a hotel for a night
and I just got like.
belligerent with a couple of
realtor partners for it was like athree -day bender but these are
(31:13):
still my close partners today as aresult of this and and whether or
not that's the best way to do itit really solidified the
relationships so we got in sometrouble together which is is
always good for building uh long-term friendships now you haven't
drank in like four months fivemonths now yeah no i think i think
to get that next wave of businessi might have to bring it back but
(31:35):
you haven't drank in like fourmonths months now yeah no i think
i think to get that next wave ofbusiness i might have to bring it
back but Can you share why you'renot?
Like, I know why, but can youshare on here?
Yeah, of course.
Some of you may know this, but my
goal is to get Tango to a billiondollars this year, Tango Ontario
specifically.
And so after MPC, we were hung
over in the car and I said to Tom,I'm like, what do you think I
(31:57):
could gain in life, like in mymortgage business and the
brokerage business if I didn'tdrink?
And Tom's like, I don't know.
I don't even want to think about
that right now.
I'm like, dude, I bet you it's an
extra a hundred grand a year, likecash for just my family alone, let
alone yours, let alone for thebusiness growth.
(32:18):
And he's like, wow, when you sayit that way, like it makes every
time we drink really expensive.
And I was like, fuck, yes, it
does.
So I'm like, I'm not going to
drink until we hit a billiondollars.
And he's like, no, you're fucked.
I challenge you.
Yeah.
Christmas coming up.
Your birthday's coming up.
You got all this stuff.
(32:38):
And I was like, no, I'm going todo it.
So now I'm five months in.
We're cooking pretty well on the
mortgage book and the brokerageside is getting there.
A couple of you listeners, comejoin us.
You would help me have anotherbeer.
But yeah, it's worked well.
I drink a lot of non -alcoholic
beers.
Well, we're 300 away, buddy.
So we're almost there.
I love it, love it, man.
Yeah, that's great.
Good for you.
Yeah, I see what you guys arecooking up over there.
(33:01):
It's why we partnered.
I love what you guys are doing.
I think there's a lot of alignmentwith what we're doing and you're
doing.
I see it.
All these things we talk about,they're all in front of you.
And a lot of the times we're justreminding people about them.
Like everything I said there aboutthe VIP realtor plan.
hanging out with people, sendingthem updates on their leads,
create content with them.
This isn't a course you go by.
This isn't a magical thing whereyou're like, oh my God, you know
all these things.
You listening or watching, you
know these things.
I'm just creating an environment,
and I know you guys are too withTangle on Terror.
We identify what these things are,and then that's all we talk about.
(33:24):
So there's not these new thingscoming in, because I know there's
some brokers out there thatthere's always a new thing.
coming and you can't keep up i seethere's two ends of the spectrum
here you got the brokerages thattell you they have training and
you get in and you realize it'sbasically boring training on basic
underwriting stuff and mickeymouse stuff and they bring in
lenders to train you on productsand that's the training and then
(33:46):
you've got these other brokeragesthat have all these things but
there's nowhere in the middlewhere you just someone builds
their core values of what we'regoing to offer as a team or a
brokerage and then we're going tostick to it and seven months from
now if you were to come into acall it would be the same call
we'd be talking about it stillagain and so that's what we've
done we've identified that bothyou guys and us and that's the
number one pain point i see withall mortgage brokers i talk to
They've seen and heard all thethings.
They know the pieces of thepuzzle.
They can't piece it togetherthemselves.
They need a mentor.
(34:07):
They need someone in their ear
who's A, done it, and B, has thecapacity to help them.
They need someone to help do that.
And that's the gap I'm filling and
why I feel like in this, I canpump my own tires here and then we
can switch gears, but I feel likeI'm a unicorn.
I do.
That's one of the emails I wrote
the other day for my drip.
i feel like i built the business
i've coached over a thousandbrokers i'm training a team now
(34:28):
and i don't have my own book abusiness my brokers are my book of
business i feel like to havesomeone that has built it trained
it and loves it wakes up thinkingabout it and isn't competing with
you there's no one out there doingthat it doesn't exist i'm the guy
and that's why i'm so excitedabout what we're doing that's it
enough about me I agree.
I think it's awesome.
And I can see the success.
And I joke about us doing a
(34:48):
billion and not drinking.
fully believe your mortgage team
alone will be over a billionbecause of the value that you're
providing to the marketplace thatway.
On that note, what kind of brokerare you currently looking for?
They probably have a pretty goodindicator from listening to this
call of if they're a right fit,but I know some people thought
there was a certain threshold hereand then other people had an idea
here.
So why don't we just clear the air
(35:10):
on that?Because there's a lot of messages
we get saying, I want to be onteam Wiley, but I don't think I'm
big enough.
Where's that at these days?
Yeah, I love it.
So first it's geographical.
So obviously Ontario for TangoOntario.
You have to be in Ontario, BC,Alberta, Saskatchewan, or
Manitoba.
That's actually grown since last
time we talked.
So let's assume you have a license
there.
I just threw a number of 10
million.
You have to be 10 million or more
(35:32):
to be on.
I had to pick a number.
There's two types of agents I loveworking with.
I love working with the agentswho've been in the business a
couple of years, made 30 grand.
They know the stuff.
They've been punched in the face.
They've had every reason to quit,
but they're 18 to 36 months in andstill standing.
They have no other choice but tomake this work.
(35:52):
Those people with the rightpersonality fit, if you're 5
million, I'll take you.
Not that I'm brand new, can you
take me?No. You're 5 million, you've been
at it for this, and I come in andgo, what have you done?
Who have you taught?What coaching have you done?
What have you implemented?Why isn't it working?
If I understand that, find out alot about people.
(36:13):
They're still standing after twoyears of making 40K and hustling
on a side job.
That tells me a lot about their
character.
That's an avatar of mine.
Eight to 15 mil is a massiveavatar of Team Wiley.
I know we can double or tripleyour business in 12 to 18 months.
And I don't like putting thosetypes of things out there.
I just know those people.
(36:34):
We can get quick wins for you if
you just stick to the plan.
And then I like working with the
other brokers who are in that 15to 30, 40 million range.
And they're like, I know all thethings and I've been doing it for
five, 10 years, but I don't reallyhave a business.
And I couldn't really tell you,Ryan, articulate how I actually
(36:57):
make 300K a year.
It comes in, but I'm still really
nervous if it's even going to comein next year.
I've been doing all the things,but if you were going to come buy
my business and I said, show meyour marketing plan, show me your
business plan, show me thesefoundations, you'd be like, I
don't have any of that.
I just kind of wake up and react.
and deal with the calls and theemails and just do enough to get
(37:18):
the deals going and i'm kind oflike on this freaking hamster
wheel love working with thoseagents because we can just put
structure in and actually stripdown some things build
foundational pieces back bringthem back up and now they have a
40 50 million dollar business thatactually has like structure to it
and it's it's natural business ifsomeone was going to come in and
(37:40):
buy it they'd be like oh okayYeah, yeah.
You've got a list of 1 ,200people.
You've sent them 70 emails a yearfor the last four years.
So you've sent out 30 ,000 emailswith an open rate of 47%.
A click -through rate of 2%.
We know if we send this, we get
this type of book call.
You start to see the different
layers in the journey.
So I love dealing with those types
(38:02):
as well.
And the cherry on top is I see
Courtney and they're building outsome pretty cool shit for you
guys.
Like the drip emails with the
broker mail and it's all like donefor you stuff.
you're just plugging in for allyour agents.
And it's not even like you guysare gouging on splits.
Like Tango has very competitivesplits.
So that's the nice part is they'regetting all of this with really
nice splits.
That part makes me laugh because
sometimes I see like someone,makes me laugh because sometimes I
(38:24):
see like someone, not knocking anybrokers, but like DLC, a
pineapple, whatever.
And I see their split and then
they join Team Wiley and TangoOntario and they get all this
like... added benefit and theyactually get a better split and
they actually get more comp fromour our lender bonuses and they
actually get more lender accessand it's like every part of your
business just got a major upgradeand you make more money it's like
amazing i've had agents say youcould charge double if you want
(38:47):
but the the split grid that teamwiley has is very competitive i
won't go through it but just as anidea 10 to 25 mils 85 50.
get had agents say you couldcharge double if you want but the
the split grid that team wiley hasis very competitive i won't go
through it but just as an idea 10to 25 mils 85 50.
You get me in your corner.
(39:08):
I will personally mentor you.
You get all the things we talkedabout.
Plus you get that done for youstuff that Courtney builds.
She's launching another thing.
We are.
She built it, but it's our ratetrack.
It's called a broker toolkit andit's a one -stop shop.
You give us your database.
We format it on there.
We have a fixed rate section.
We have a variable rate section.
It spits out opportunities andturns green when there's arbitrage
(39:29):
opportunities.
You identify one of those as a
lead.
You just click lead.
It drops into a lead tracker sheeton there.
You put all your prospecting onthere.
It comes with all the built -inscripts for DMs.
emails phone calls all in thereit's hyperlinked on there is a
prospecting scorecard and then ithas all the team wiley resources
on there it's a one -stop shop foreverything you need to prospect
database mine your businessoutside of track live files and
(39:50):
where you're at all the otherthings you need is in this one
broker toolkit and it's gettinglaunched i think today we're just
putting it out it's dope i didn'tknow you guys are doing that
that's awesome you know why we dolet's talk about it we identified
as a team our goal is to makemoney we identified the
bottlenecks on mortgage brokers ofwhat they need to do to make money
i could either coach you on how togo write sales emails and you
(40:13):
should be sending one a week i cancoach you to go do that and then
you have to go do it i know that'snot going to happen from years of
coaching So why don't I just writeyour emails for you and we just
hook up your drip and we hook upthe automation from Calendly and
Finmo right into your master drip.
Why don't we go do that?
(40:34):
Because it's a money -making task.
You make money, we make money.
We had an agent today just go,hey, I love broker mail.
I've had five book calls from itfrom the last couple of emails
going out and he goes, I'm workingon deals.
He's like, that's cool.
And I'm like, yeah, you didn't
have to lift a finger.
And then database mining, if you
had all your database in one spot,and you knew how to mine it and it
(40:57):
was all structured, you could makehundreds of thousands of dollars
and brokers just don't do it.
So we're sitting here going,
instead of us teaching you how togo do it, why don't we just
fucking do it?What for you?
Why don't you give us the data?We'll go do it and then we'll
coach you on how to find theopportunities.
Every week show up and we have adatabase mining day.
So we're doing it selfishlybecause those things create
revenue for the brokers.
(41:17):
which means team wiley makes
revenue so we could sit around andtweak all the other crap in your
business but it doesn't move theneedle so we've identified as our
own team because we're here tomake money what things move the
needle and then we're just doingit for you so that's a big big
focus for team wiley is you win wewin so why don't we just figure
out how we make money and makemore money from you and instead of
(41:38):
us going out and finding a hundrednew agents Why don't we just get
our current agents to increasetheir revenue by 25 %?
I love that.
That's actually one of my frames
that I went into the year withbecause obviously I've got big
financial goals, but I reframeinstead of how can I make more
money?It's how can I make Tom more
money?How can I make Kyle more money?
(41:59):
And thinking like that has helpedme come up with such a clear focus
for my life.
And I love it for the brokerage
side because all you're doing islike, how can Team Wiley make more
money by helping Jody make moremoney, by helping Lisa make more
money?it's pretty cool i'm not going to
dive into the numbers per agentbut i know like our volume per
agent is very high compared tolike the industry standard and
even looking at where people camein and what they reported on our
contract as their volume versuswhere they're at and where they're
projected to go it's very excitingto see that growth there whereas
(42:21):
like we're not growing by becominga thousand agent brokerage we're
growing by becoming a 50 to 200brokerage of like Navy SEAL type
level skills, which is reallycool.
Yeah, the quality of it.
We see teams out there.
We did a billion.
Yeah, you have 300 agents.
I really fucking hope you did.
I really hope you did a billion.
Like that's kind of embarrassing,to be honest.
(42:42):
Someone asked me this the otherday and I'll just put it out
because it's, I don't know, I'mvery open about it.
What's your goal?Like what's the end game for?
team wiley my end game is 100agents 25 million in agent and
right now we're at 35 agents infive to six months so that's my
end goal that's where we're atwhere we're going can it scale
(43:05):
doesn't need to need 100 agentsthat's it that's not a scale 100
agents we can do it and we've gota plan of how everyone will be
taken care of and no one will fallthrough the cracks and feel like
they're a number like a lot ofother places that won't happen but
that's the goal 100 agents 2 .5billion in volume And then we put
it on cruise control.
And we just get better at
(43:26):
increasing it from 25 to 28. 28million to 30 million.
Instead of going from 100 to 200agents.
Who gets in the club gets reallyhard to get in the club after
that.
But 100 agents, 25.
That's our goal.
I know you guys can get there
because all three of us haven'treally been doing too, too much
outgoing prospecting.
It's all been kind of leads coming
in that way, which has been greatbecause I know you're dialing in
everything with Team Wiley first,enhancing the value adds and the
(43:49):
offer, and then you're going tomaybe go out there and prospect.
So yeah, I'm excited to see whatthat's going to look like for you
guys in the near future.
Yeah, we said, how can we go and
market and do all this?when we need to take care of the
people who are trusting us withtheir careers and that partnership
so we need to get that dialed inand just organically we got to
(44:11):
where we got we will put the pedalon the marketing and stuff but
it's not going to be thetraditional pound in the pavement
hobnobbing it with you know drinksand cold calling and you know
hammering you with texts up yourass following you up with like hey
man what's going on what's youknow staying in front of you any
uh It's like, no, you find us.
You come find us.
man what's going It'll groworganically, word of mouth.
(44:32):
That's always how Tango's grown tobeing four and a half.
And it's always been the way andit's going to continue that way.
So Ryan, thank you very much forjumping on today.
It's awesome to have you on ourteam and we're having a lot of fun
growing with you.
So thanks for coming on the
podcast as well and sharing thiswith all of our listeners.
I know a ton of value for peoplewho aren't even in the brokers and
(44:54):
might not ever want to come to us.
Totally fine.
But take away those things wetouched on, those success,
implement it.
That's the number one thing is
just implementing.
So thank you, Ryan.
Love it, guys.
Love you guys, man.
You guys are...
The industry is better off because
of you guys and you're wired.
And, you know, it's all about
finding your people and you guysare definitely my people.
So I'm very glad that we are wherewe're at.
So very, very happy.
(45:15):
So thanks for letting me in the
club.
Thanks, man.
Peace out.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!