Ghosts, Witches & Paranormal Truths with Christina from T.W.A.T.S Paranormal

In this episode of Dairyland Frights, John welcomes Christina from Twats Paranormal (Wisconsin Apparition Tracking Society) for a spirited conversation about ghosts, paranormal festivals, witchcraft, and haunted history in Wisconsin and beyond.

👻 Highlights include:

• Christina’s role in co-producing the Windy City Paranormal Festival and how it brought together underrepresented voices in the paranormal community.

• Haunted Wisconsin stories, from the mysterious Zilke Building in Appleton to Summerwind Mansion, once ranked among the most haunted houses in America.

• Christina’s experiences as a seer and practicing witch, discussing spirit guides, boundaries with spirits, and the truth behind paranormal encounters.

• A deep dive into paranormal ethics—why supporting small festivals, podcasts, and investigators matters.

• A candid discussion about infamous cases like Annabelle the doll, the Warrens, and how collective energy shapes hauntings.

• Witchcraft, frequency, energy work, and how the paranormal connects with everyday life.

✨ Christina also shares her dream paranormal destinations, from Irish ruins to ancient Greek temples.

Whether you’re a believer, skeptic, or curious about the unknown, this episode delivers spooky stories, fascinating insights, and plenty of Wisconsin pride.

🔮 Guest Links: Follow Twats Paranormal and learn more about the Windy City Paranormal Festival: [insert links if available]

Episode Transcript

Speaker A (00:00):
Foreign.
Hello, my spooky friends.
This is John, your host of Dairyland Frightsin the spookier podcast Nightland Frights.

(00:20):
And I wanted to thank all my spooky friendsout there for listening.
I truly appreciate it.
Please like and subscribe and rate us 5 stars.
It helps you make this a better podcast andmake sure you comment what guests you would
like me to have on what topics you would likeme to talk about.
It only going to make this podcast better.

(00:41):
So again, thank you so much for listening and
please go to my patreon, check that out.
Become a Parasconi for only $3, a spooky
friend for a dollar.
And remember, stay spooky.
Hello my spooky friends and welcome to theparanormal podcast Dear Land Frights that
covers everything spooky, creepy andmysterious in the Midwest and beyond.

(01:06):
And today you're in for a real treat.
I have Christina from Twats Paranormal,
someone from Wisconsin.
Finally.
I've been talking to people from Australia andthe UK and la.
Tammy, a shout out from Hollywood Paranormal.
And now Christina, welcome my fellow Wisconsin

(01:27):
person.

Speaker B (01:28):
Thank you.
Thank you so much for having me.
I'm so honored to be back.
And yeah, Wisconsin representing here.
It's born and raised.

Speaker A (01:38):
Yeah.

Speaker B (01:39):
Yes. And also shout out to Tammy from me too.
She's wonderful.
I love the Hollywood Paranormal folks and, and
all the spooky Hollywood people that we got tomeet this year.
So.

Speaker A (01:51):
Yeah, yes, absolutely.
And speaking of that, if you didn't get a
chance, it was in June, Windy City ParanormalFest.
I couldn't make it, but guess what?I got virtual tickets and loved it.
I couldn't be there, but it was almost likebeing there.
It's Christina, could you kind of relate someof your experiences there and, you know, tell

(02:12):
my spooky friends, you know.

Speaker B (02:14):
Sure. Well, first, I want to thank you for supporting the festival.
So important to us.

Speaker A (02:20):
Yes.

Speaker B (02:21):
And just take a quick moment to like, kind of give a plug and say, if anybody
has local paranormal festivals or conventionsor anything going on in your area, please buy
tickets in whatever way you can, whether it bevirtual or in real life or gift them to
someone.
Because a lot of our events are struggling, a
lot of our presenters are struggling, and wereally need want to continue to be able to

(02:47):
share this community with everyone.
I think everyone feels that way, so anybody
who has a chance, please do that.
But thank you for mentioning our festival.
So, Windy City Paranormal Festival, I am a coproducer along with producer Frankie, who is
kind of heading us up, who's also a member ofOur paranormal team.
And then our other two paranormal team membersare also co producers, so Kimberly and Denise.

(03:13):
So we have our team, which is the WisconsinApparition Tracking Society, AKA Schwattz.
And then we have our production team, which isalso.
The Windy City Paranormal Festival took place,as you said, in Chicago in June of this year.
And when we set out to do this, this was ourinaugural year, so we were very proud of

(03:34):
ourselves, very excited we set out to do this.
We wanted to kind of highlight and focus on
underrepresented voices within the paranormalcommunity.
And it came together so beautifully.
Honestly, I walked away from that weekend
feeling I felt just completely euphoric.

(03:55):
I don't know how else to describe it, because
it turned out better than we ever could havehoped for.
The sense of community.
All of the people who showed up for us and,
and really attended in full were just amazing.
It was so lovely.
We had Adam Barry, we had Jessica Knappick andJohn Yale Tenney of what's Up Weirdo?

(04:18):
We had Joshua Darren.
We had, let's see, Jamal Mass.
We had Julia Helena Hadass, who was the spookycocktail witchcraft woman.
And she did an incredible job making cocktailsand kind of using spell concept behind that.

(04:39):
We had Zachariah the Witch and Tammy and Brycefrom Hollywood Paranormal.
Noelle and Nicole from the Quite Unusualpodcast.
We had Coffee and Cauldron's fellow witches,Robin Valentine and Maria and Parapeculiar.
I mean, Rocket Fox.

(05:00):
I could go on and on and on.
It was so incredible, and I apologize.
I know I'm missing other people, but it was
just an amazing event.
We had so much fun.
And yes, I just really, really honored thateveryone came together and was part of it with
us.

Speaker A (05:20):
Yes. And not to toot your horn, but toot.
You guys did an amazing job.
This is not easy, folks, okay?
It's like herding cats who maybe have greaseon them and you're running in the rain trying
to catch them.
Because everyone in the paranormal are great.
I've not met one person that I would say islike, I don't know about that guy.

(05:46):
Everyone's great and they all want to help.
They all want to share, and they all want to
get their story out and share their love forthe paranormal, to share their love for each
other.
Because the paranormal really is one of the
few places that stretch across boundaries.
You can live in Australia, you can live in the
uk you can live in the United States.

(06:06):
You can live in Wisconsin, and everyone has a
ghost story.
Everybody knows about ghosts.
Maybe some people Are dealing with it, thatthey had something going on in their life and
they're afraid to maybe bring it up.
These are why experiences like this, where you
can be like, wait a minute, There's a bunch ofpeople like me that love this as much as I
love it.

(06:26):
Yes, absolutely.
Yes, absolutely.
And I can't say enough about the virtual
tickets.
I know some people are like, man, I don't want
to go to Chicago, Get a hotel room and blah,blah, blah.
I get people.
I get it.
Go get a virtual ticket.
It's almost as good as being there.
It really is.
I watched a whole bunch of stuff.
Frankie was great.
I had a little bit of an issue.
Frankie just got back to me and said, here yougo, John.

(06:47):
No problem.
We'll take care of it.
Here you go.
And it was just again, Christina, I can't toot
your horn enough.
I had Tammy on from Hollywood paranormal and
she said was so excited about it too, and shelearned so much.
And if you do go, which I highly recommend ifyou can, Chicago is full paranormal, right,

(07:08):
Christina?Yeah, full of it.

Speaker B (07:10):
Everywhere.

Speaker A (07:12):
Everywhere.
I mean, you got to remember gangland, right?
Al Capone.

Speaker B (07:16):
Yes.

Speaker A (07:16):
He's running around, maybe still running around in certain hotels.
You have the Murder Castle, H.H. holmes.
He was around different ghosts, different
curses, different things, blah.
And on and on and on.
Right?

Speaker B (07:30):
Yeah.

Speaker A (07:31):
It's so great.
So you take all that and you put together some
great people.
It's going to be awesome.
That's all I can say on that one.

Speaker B (07:38):
Thank you.
Thank you.
Yeah.
The virtual was so important to us.
We wanted to make sure that we could make itas inclusive as possible.
Of course, it's tough because we.
We always want you there with us in person if
you can.
But that was something that, you know, it was
the four of us running the whole thing.
And we ran into realizing that a lot of people
had questions, Especially since it was thefirst time and since a lot of people in the

(08:01):
paranormal community that tend that weretraveling.
It just so happened this time were people whoweren't used to being in a big city and taking
public transportation and.

Speaker A (08:12):
Right.

Speaker B (08:13):
Finding parking.
And we really came up with an amazing solution
for that.
Frankie jumped in and put together a WhatsApp
and we were able to answer everyone'squestions.
And then we had a couple of close friends whoalso are production team for Frankie in his,

(08:35):
we'll say day job, but it's really not duringthe day.
And they were there to help us as well.
Just on site.
But also, all in all, it was just the four ofus.
And I'm.
Yeah, like you said, it was incredible.
It really turned out well.
So.

Speaker A (08:49):
Bravo. Bravo.
Very.

Speaker B (08:50):
Thank you.

Speaker A (08:51):
Very good job.
And to your point, too, I know everyone wants
to go to the paranormal podcast and shows andstuff that are like, you know, the bigger
names out there, but let me tell yousomething, folks.
They don't need our money.
They're fine.
They're going to be fine.
Trust me.
Zach Baggins is fine.
Okay?

Speaker B (09:12):
He's fine.

Speaker A (09:13):
He's fine.
Right.
All the other people who put these shows outand stuff, Eli Roth and stuff like that, it's
great you want to listen to it.
But if you want to listen to a podcast like
mine or just where there's people who are justlove doing this and they're not doing it for
money or fame.
Right.
You're doing it because you love it.

(09:34):
Like, there's no reason to do this other than
if you love it.
Right?

Speaker B (09:38):
Absolutely. There's.
Let me just say this.
There is no money in putting on a paranormalfestival.
All right?But we.
We did it for the experience.
We did it because we believed in the message,
and we really just wanted to spend good timewith good people.
So.

Speaker A (09:55):
Absolutely.

Speaker B (09:56):
Yeah, absolutely.

Speaker A (09:57):
Tell me.
I think there is, but if I'm wrong, tell me
I'm wrong.
Is there going to be another para fest next
year?

Speaker B (10:04):
There is.

Speaker A (10:05):
Yay.

Speaker B (10:06):
Yes. Yes. Yeah.
We're crazy enough to try it again.

Speaker A (10:10):
Try it again.

Speaker B (10:11):
We're in the process of figuring out the exact dates, and we are putting
together our performer and presenter list,which is so difficult because we want to have
everyone back, but we also want to continue onwith that message of trying to, you know, give

(10:32):
highlight and platform to people who areunderrepresented and who are voices that are
maybe not being heard as much.
And there's so many people with so many
incredible stories, just as proven by yourpodcast.
So. So we're struggling, but we're.
We're working really hard to pull that

(10:53):
together.
So I would say probably within the next, like,
month or two, by October, for sure, we willhave exact announcements.
But right now, you can hop on the website andyou can take the opportunity to secure your
ticket for next year.
Basically, if you put down a deposit of $50,

(11:14):
you'll receive $75 off of next year's eventticket, which is a really nice opportunity for
anyone who knows that they definitely want toattend.

Speaker A (11:24):
Absolutely. And. And to Christina's point, too.
And we'll get to the paranormal, folks.
Just hang on.
Let's just Talk about this first support, youknow, like, I have a Patreon and everything
and really for like, not even a cup of coffee.
You know what, your cup of coffee or at a
Starbucks is like 7 bucks or some ridiculousthing, I don't know.
Or a $50 salad.

(11:45):
Shout out to Tammy again in LA.
You can take that money and give it to someonewho, I don't know, it's going to make their
show better.
Is it going to give you maybe a better
experience is going to help Christina andFrankie and, you know, Tammy and whoever else
is working with them to be like, great, I cannow maybe get an app or something else to make

(12:07):
this a better experience where I can bring aguest on or I can do this, where I can do
that.
So your experience is always going to be
better.
It's not like, well, okay, you know, maybe.
I don't know.
No, please do that.
Because again, we all love it.
And we're doing this not for the money or the
fame.
We're doing it for to bring this forward.
And the more you support us and supportespecially Christina and Para Fest and Frankie

(12:30):
and all those and great people, the better wecan make it and we can do it again next year.
So you can be like, I have something to lookforward to.
Right.
Hey, in the summer, instead of sitting around
sweating my, you know, what offs, I can.
I can go and be a bunch of people who love the
paranormal as much as I do.
So there you go.
Yeah, there's your psa.

Speaker B (12:50):
Right, Right.
We just kicked it off.
Got it over with in the beginning.
There we go.

Speaker A (12:54):
We got.
We'll.
We'll bring it up later.
We'll bring up later.
And I'm, like I said, I'm always here for youguys anytime you guys want to hop on and
let's.

Speaker B (13:01):
Thank you.

Speaker A (13:02):
Like I said before, two Wisconsin people.
One of the things about Wisconsin is, ispeople kind of.
I don't think about Wisconsin other thancheese.
Nice people.
Wisconsin, nice.
Snow, cold.
But guess what, folks, right, Christina, we're
full to the brim with paranormal.

(13:22):
Right?
It's crazy.
Yeah, it's crazy.
So much Cryptids, right?Beast of Bray Road.

Speaker B (13:29):
Yes.

Speaker A (13:30):
To Summer Wind Mansion.
Right?

Speaker B (13:32):
Yeah.

Speaker A (13:33):
You know, come on to.
Well, this ain't really nothing to brag about,
but we have two of the heavy hitters, Gein andDahmer, who have books, movies.
Who doesn't know them?You know what I mean?
You may not know from Wisconsin, but you knowthem.
I mean, they've influenced movies.
I mean, Ed Dean, you know, he's influenced,

(13:56):
you know, Psycho, Silence of the Lambs, on andon and on and on and on.
You can go down the line.
So Wisconsin is just a flyover state or just
where you grab your little cheese head.
Sure you can, but it's a great experiences.
So, Christina, let me ask you, okay.
What has been some of your most memorable or
significant paranormal experiences?

Speaker B (14:19):
Okay. Well, I was born and raised in Appleton, Wisconsin.
So I will say that.
And probably most of my favorite paranormal or
spooky stories surround that area just becauseit's my hometown.
I no longer live in that area, but it is stilla really cute, fun little city.

(14:41):
And I did work and own a business in the ZilkeBuilding, downtown Appleton.
The Zilke Building has a long history.
It burned down a couple times.
And in its final build, Mr. Zilke decided thathe was going to build it out of stone so it
wouldn't burn down again.
And he actually purchased stone.

(15:02):
Stone from a church that had started buildand.
And did not finish.
So the inside is beautiful.
Was all businesses for the majority of itslife.
Just in the recent years, they've turned itinto condos.
So when I had my business there, I. I knewthere was some ghost stories around it, but I

(15:23):
really didn't know the history of it.
And back then, they still had elevator
operators.
And so.
So, yeah, it was one of the last buildings inthe state to still have elevator operators.
And they had some good stories for me.
But the main entrance is all marble.
The ceiling is actually copper.

(15:44):
But at one point, a manager of the building
after Mr. Zilke passed away did not like thesound of women's heels walking on and echoing
in the entryway.
So they actually carpeted the ceiling.
And the elevator operators said that theywould hear the echoing of heels even.
Even when no one was walking.
And they could see directly into that main

(16:04):
area when the doors were open.
But the most common haunting story is that
there are.
You'll hear Mr. Zilke playing the piano,
because he did have a grand piano in the area.
And there were a couple of occasions where
indeed I would be closing up at night and haveto work my way through the building to get out
back to the parking ramp.
And I would hear piano.

(16:27):
I'd be just in the distance, not in the mainlobby.
It was always like an echo running through thebuilding.
The other thing that that would occur wassometimes once the elevator operators were
dismissed and they put in new elevators for usabout three years into me being in the space,
the elevators would just open by themselvesquite often.
I think almost everyone who spent time in thatbuilding, I would bet that even people who now

(16:51):
live in that building experienced that.
And when we asked an elevator repair person
who was there at one point, if that wassupposed to happen, they said, no, it should
always remain closed unless someone hits thecall button on them.

Speaker A (17:03):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker B (17:06):
So that's my favorite, just sweet, sentimental story.
Yeah, yeah, right.

Speaker A (17:10):
You gotta love that.
You gotta love that.
So with your organization, Twads, what haveyou guys investigated?
What do you guys work on?I mean, tell me a little bit about the
organization.

Speaker B (17:22):
So as a team, we really are just about connecting and having our own
experience.
We always say we have nothing to prove and we
are not setting out to try and prove ourselvesin any way or gather evidence for anything
other than our own personal experience.
I would say we have done quite a few

(17:44):
investigations around the Midwest.
Some of our favorites in Wisconsin would
probably be Dead by Dawn, which was our formerteam that some of us were on, that was our
home base for many years.
So it's a kind of a scare bnb.
We'll say it's a building in downtownManitowoc and the owner, dawn, is just lovely

(18:05):
and she hosts many events there.
She has a fun little bar that's kind of got
like a tiki jungle theme with a leopard printpool table up there.
And she does trivia, spooky trivia andmasquerade balls and all sorts of fun stuff.
So that's a really fun building to investigatebecause it was a downtown furniture maker who

(18:29):
also did caskets and there's just a lot goingon.
It's right on the water where there's movementenergetically.
So it's probably one of our favoriteinvestigations in Wisconsin.

Speaker A (18:41):
Nice, nice.
Have you, well, have you ever been to
Summerwind Mansion or heard of that at all?

Speaker B (18:48):
I have.
I have not personally been there, but I have
heard of it.
I haven't been there because it was my
understanding when I looked into it that it'son private property and people are not
supposed to venture out to it anymore.
But I have read about it and I am intrigued by
it.
It breaks my heart that it is no longer
standing or accessible.

Speaker A (19:10):
Yeah, there was a number of years ago where people were trying to raise enough
money to rebuild it and it just fell throughthe cracks or whatever you want to say.

Speaker B (19:20):
Yeah.

Speaker A (19:20):
And, you know, I've talked about the Summer Wind Mansion many, many times here
in the podcast, but it was in Time magazineranked as one of the most haunted houses in
the United States.
At one time, I just thought, does that blow
your mind?

Speaker B (19:36):
Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker A (19:36):
That's crazy.
It's crazy.

Speaker B (19:39):
And even I feel like, because of my abilities, even when I've read about it, even
as a youngster, when I came across storiesabout it, I just felt like it gives off a lot
of energy.
There's no doubt about it that I think the
space, the energy of the land, everythingthat's there.

Speaker A (19:58):
Correct.

Speaker B (19:58):
Health or not, I think it's probably still one of the most haunted areas.

Speaker A (20:02):
Absolutely.

Speaker B (20:03):
United States.

Speaker A (20:04):
And on top of it, you know, it's buried on top of a Native American burial
ground.
I had a paranormal investigator on the show
who accidentally.
He did not know he had his tent on top of one
of the mounds.
And he said all night he was having some
really weird dreams about Native Americans andall this stuff.

(20:25):
And then when he got up the next day, one ofthe investigators was like, you're not
supposed to be on that.
And he's like, why?
He goes, that's a Native American burialmound.
So he had literally been sleeping on the bonesof.

Speaker B (20:39):
And they were probably trying to tell him, hey, you don't want a nap here?
Yeah, wake up.
Yes, yes.
Well, and.
And for that reason, I actually personally
think that it's good that they didn't rebuildthe home because.
Just out of respect for the land there,correct?
Yes.

Speaker A (20:58):
Yeah. I mean, if you're.
If you're going to do it, then do it, right?
Bring in a number of experts who can findwhere the burial ground is, honor it, do
something.
Bring Native American people in to kind of
work with them to try to find the bestsolutions, solution.
And then if you're gonna build something,maybe, you know, there's plenty of land, maybe
build a little further away or something.

Speaker B (21:20):
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker A (21:21):
But that's hard, right? You can't be like, well, is this that?
But that's still one of my favorite stories.
How, you know, people went insane there, how.
How we got struck by lightning.
And, you know, that's.
Again, that's in Wisconsin.
People.
People forget that it is.

Speaker B (21:37):
And there are.
I mean, there are burial mounds everywhere.
And I, you know, I've been at a gas station.
I think it was in northern Wisconsin somewhere
where it wasn't that long ago.
And I just remember, like, getting out,
getting gas, like grabbing a soda, and thenseeing this grassy fenced off area off to the
side of the parking lot.

(21:57):
And I'm like, oh, that's interesting.
There's a history plaque.
Okay.
Like almost any paranormal person.
I'm like, well, I'm going to go read the
history plaque.
You know, I march over there and it's, you
know, here it is, a mound.
And I just was like, I was so pleased that
they had at least respected that space andleft it alone.

Speaker A (22:16):
Yeah, absolutely.
Absolutely.
When you've been investigating or maybe whenyou have been reading some material or
something about the paranormal, how do yourationalize the paranormal claim or event
you're at, or do you have a way to debunk it?Like, how do you approach that?
Because there's a difference, right?There's a difference between debunking, which

(22:36):
a lot of my paranormal investigators saythat's kind of their number one goal.
Maybe not number one, but one a or two.
But rationalizing the people.
Right.
My house is haunted.
How do you.
How do you know that?
Right.
And I know you have sensitive.
How do you go about that and how do you figurethat out?

Speaker B (22:55):
So I call myself a seer.
Other people might say psychic medium.
I choose not to use that term because I feelthat narrows down what people expect of me or
expect of a person.
And so I would say that when I've assisted on
personal property investigations and someonecomes to us, I take them for their word.

(23:17):
But I never go into a space without a releaseof a background check from the person space
that I'm going into to make sure that we'renot dealing with a situation where someone
maybe needs some mental health support.
Luckily, I have the background of spending
some time as a young adult working in with,alongside of a larger mental health facility
for a group home facility.

(23:39):
And so I do understand that sometimes there's
just support that's needed there.
But for the most part, I think that people are
being honest and they're worried and their waythat they were raised has shaped them to be
afraid, uh, they might be buying into orfeeding into and giving energy, creating
something scary scarier than what it reallyis.

(24:02):
Right.
So. So if we're fearful, we're feeding maybe a
positive energy with fear, but our fear isturning it into something else.
So I always try and really go into it justtrying to see the person in front of me, the
human that's living and what they're sayingand really listen to everything that's going
on.
As far as debunking things, this is an
interesting one.

(24:22):
I love that you asked it.
I think for me, I would say because we takethe approach as a team and because I
personally take the approach of having nothingto prove to anyone, I. I would say that I am a
Healthy skeptic in that.
I want to make sure first that there isn't
something, you know, that the electric isn'thaywire in the house, or that there's not

(24:44):
something like that going on, or that it's nota major draft happening that's moving things
inside.
You know, we want to look at those things.
But for the most part, I would say my focus isreally about the connection and seeing what's
happening and experiencing what's happeningand trying to have communication.
Because whether it's a living person here oran entity on the other side that incorporates

(25:10):
every type of entity, ultimately, the themethat I personally have experienced along the
way is that everyone wants to be seen andrecognize and think that, you know, be given
validation.
So I'm not worried about debunking in the
sense of, you know, yes, common sense.
Let's look at common sense.

(25:31):
But trying to debunk something just to be ableto say, I've conquered it.
I think sometimes we get a lot of an attitudeof superiority from some people on teams who
that's all they want to do.
They want to go in and kind of take the
mysticism and the mystery out of it.
But science isn't going to move forward if we
don't recognize that the things we don'tunderstand need to be studied.

(25:55):
And we might look at them as mystical ormagical right now.

Speaker A (25:58):
Yeah.

Speaker B (25:59):
But if we give it time and energy and rational thinking, but also validation,
that's how things move forward and we getanswers.
So, yeah.

Speaker A (26:11):
Christina Some. I've interviewed a number of medium psychics, scryers, sensitive,
you know, whatever, empaths, on and on.
One thing I think is really interesting is
some are by touch, some are by smell, some areby sight, some are, you know, it's the five
senses.
So with you, is there one sense that's

(26:33):
heightened?Like you go into an area and maybe you see
something or you touch something and you know,okay, there's something going on here.
How do you go about that?

Speaker B (26:43):
I've experienced all, I would say the least common for me is probably
clairaudience.
So, But I, I, I've worked very hard over the
last 35 years to really zero in and try andelevate my abilities.
I've had abilities since I can remember, andmy family was always very open about talking

(27:09):
about those abilities, and they too had hadthose experiences.
You know, I would say for me, it varies in thelocation.
Oftentimes I'll go into a space and dependenton what I'm dealing with and who I'm talking
to.
And oftentimes dependent on the people being
impacted the most might impact how I'm feelingthings as well.

(27:33):
And I just feel it's so individual.
It's like asking an artist how they
conceptualize their art.
And I always like to compare any sort of
ability to art because I think it's somethingthat we all have the ability to do.
Some of us come from, you know, the womb andcan draw an amazing picture.

(27:54):
We all had those friends in grade school whowere incredible.

Speaker A (27:57):
Yeah.

Speaker B (27:58):
And some of us, you know, are.
Are okay.
But, like, we dedicate ourselves to reallyunderstanding and developing the skill.
And other people are like, love art.
Never can draw more than a stick figure.

Speaker A (28:11):
Right, Absolutely.

Speaker B (28:12):
Because they're just not interested in learning the technicality of it.

Speaker A (28:15):
So.

Speaker B (28:15):
So I think it's just a. It's a broad thing that I don't like to put an exact
definition on because it.
It is so vast.
It's vast for me.
It's vast across the community.

Speaker A (28:28):
Yeah, right.
Exactly, exactly.
And that's why I said, everybody's different.
They have different combinations of things
that they can do versus, you know, one of thefascinating ones that someone talked about is
frequency.
Like, they could pick up frequencies between
people.
Because I have this.
I had this weird thing.
I was talking to her about Terry.
She's the cowgirl shaman.

(28:49):
She works with animals and stuff, and she's
kind of like a pet psychic.
And I thought, that's amazing.
I love that.
But anyway, she was talking about, just really
quickly, I'll meet people, and I could givethem a million dollars, Christina, and they
still wouldn't like me.
And then I meet people, and it's like, we have
been together for 20 years.
Right.
And I said, why is that?And she said, oh, it's frequency.

(29:12):
She goes, your frequency.
And I never heard of that before.
Do you think people have things like thatwhere maybe you've gone in and you're like,
you're just picking up something?Maybe not a frequency, but like you said, you
don't want to put a label on it, per se, butyou're kind of like, huh, I'm picking up
something a little bit strange here.

Speaker B (29:32):
I absolutely do.
And my day job, I actually do energy work.
So I am a certified crystal energy worker.
So, yeah, I. I think that people's energies,
like, can be off, and we sense that.
I think that they can have a natural energetic
frequency that is kind of repelling to oursor, you know, other way around.

(29:56):
And it's probably one of the mostScientifically supported concepts, which is
actually so intriguing.
And I love the synchronicity of you asking
this because I've been spending the last likethree days researching, purchasing a frequency
machine and using copper hut at particularlengths to match that frequency in creating

(30:21):
some communication with a property that we'regoing to go back and investigate in September
as a team.
So we're going back to the Roth house, which
is the wastego wonder in Illinois, which wasthe first documented case of possession
spiritualist community there that was writtenabout in the United States here.

(30:43):
So just a beautiful story of healing.
Actually not what we normally think about when
we think about possessions.

Speaker A (30:49):
Yes.

Speaker B (30:49):
Yeah. Awesome.

Speaker A (30:50):
I love that.
Well, you see, that's.
Again, I'm fascinated by that and a lot of itis.
And I get this from my mom.
My mom could meet someone and she would be
like, nope.
And not to be judgmental or whatever.
Like, she'd meet one of my girlfriends andshe'd be like.
And I'd be like, mom, we just started dating.
What's going on?

(31:11):
We'd always break up.
And what's so funny is my kids like it.
My wife, not so much.
But I'll go in and I'll meet someone.
I'll be like, nope.
And my wife's like, you're being judgmental.
Stop being so judgmental about them.
I'm telling you, there's something off about
this person.
And I'm always right.
I got that gift from my mom.
And it's a weird gift, right, because you kind

(31:33):
of feel weird about it because it's like youdon't want to be mean to someone, but you kind
of.
You get in their space and you're like, yeah,
like, this is not going to work.
And I don't.
Again, frequencies and other things.
And maybe things change, I don't know.
But I've never, Christina, have met someonethat immediately we just.
It's not working.

(31:54):
And it worked.
I don't know.
It's me.
Maybe I need some crystals.
Maybe you could help me out with tune up my
frequency.
But I don't know what it is.
It's interesting.

Speaker B (32:02):
I agree with that.
I. I'm the same way.
And in fact, I have found in life that, like,if I give someone a chance and start to second
guess it, then maybe let them in a little bit.
And I'm like, okay.
I probably was just had my guard up.
I misread this.
No, no. They always proved me right in thelong run that I should have listened to my
instinct in that sense, when I'M working withpeople in healing sessions, especially when

(32:26):
they're struggling with someone that they justcannot see eye to eye with or get along with
and that they've just never meshed with, butthey're a part of their life.
What I always like to remind people is, isthat there's someone out there who is the
person that they met and they went, oh, thisperson is perfect.
And we get along so well and it's like we'veknown one another forever.

(32:48):
And even though they're not like that for youor for me, that doesn't mean that they're not
that in someone else's eyes.
And so it really helps me energetically just
shift away from even trying to mesh with theirenergy because I know that someone else is to
hold that place for them.

Speaker A (33:06):
Yeah, it just blows me away.
I had.
Her name is Aurora.
She's from Blood Moon, Milk, astrology, I had
her on.
And she uses astrology, she uses signs,
houses, all this things, you know, which Iknow zero about.
So I'm sorry, Aurora, if you listen to thisand you're like, you're wrong, John.
But she can.
Like, she was running through a session with
me, like, just kind of go, I'm Taurus, by theway.

Speaker B (33:27):
Okay, okay.

Speaker A (33:28):
And she was.

Speaker B (33:29):
My bestie is a Taurus.
I love this.

Speaker A (33:30):
There we go.
Love it, love it.
Synchronicity.

Speaker B (33:34):
Yes.

Speaker A (33:35):
And she was.
So I just was running her through some things
and.
And she was like, okay, well, you know, this
person, not this person, like this house.
And she was going through all.
And this rises up and this moon is like this.
And this is going to come, like, just blowing
me away.
It's not like horoscopes you read in the
newspaper for fun, right?Today you can have a great day and you're

(33:56):
gonna, yeah, gonna meet the, I don't know,love of your life.
Some wacky thing like that.
This is really things she's looking at.
She's actually studying moon phases andchanges in wind direction or whatever, using
crystals.
And I just, I love that stuff.

Speaker B (34:14):
It's just so incredible.
I was, I. I was born on the cusp.
Like, I'm technically a Capricorn, but likejust after Sagittarius and my whole life I've
always been like, you know, I just don't fullyfit that Capricorn figure.
But I've never studied astrology.
I know enough about it to know some basics,

(34:35):
right?People's basic signs, their basic personality
traits.
In this last year, I took a little bit more of
a deep Dive.
And realized that I have a Sagittarius
stellium, which means that you have three ormore planets within, like, one sign.
And, yeah, Sagittarius.
I'm.

(34:56):
I'm, you know, both of those things.
And I always kind of say, like, those are the.
Those are the dueling wolves inside of me.
Right.
Like the.
The wild adventure spirit, but also the very
practical, like, goal focused.
Yeah, yeah, I am definitely both of those
things.

Speaker A (35:11):
Absolutely.

Speaker B (35:12):
Yeah.

Speaker A (35:12):
So let's talk.
Another thing which I just got introduced to
is spirit guides.

Speaker B (35:18):
Yes.

Speaker A (35:19):
What is your feeling on spirit guides, by the way?
I have four of them.
Not the bra, fancy you.

Speaker B (35:25):
Look at you.
I bet you actually have more.

Speaker A (35:28):
I probably do have more.

Speaker B (35:29):
Yes, yes, yes.
I mean, I think, you know, everyone, in my
opinion, has spirit guides now, whether theyare the spirit guides that actually are the
type that interact with you and you lean onthem and use them, whether that be for, you
know, psychic ability or just life focus andgrowth, I think that varies per person.

(35:50):
In my skill and my mentors, that wasn'tsomething that was ever focused on.
I know it's become a very popular way forpeople to work on developing their abilities,
is really tuning into, getting to know theirpsychic or their.
Their spirit guides to help develop theirpsychic abilities.
But, you know, I've just always trusted that Ihave a group of guides, and they flow in and

(36:15):
out, as their specialty calls them, I think,is what my feeling always has been.
Personally, I've never felt like I've had justone.
I had one that I identified with for a verylong time when I was a teenager who was very
active in coming forward in my dreams and inimagery that I saw.
I. Yeah, I've never really felt the need thatI need to spend my time here getting to know

(36:40):
them, because I know that my higher selfalready does.

Speaker A (36:43):
Sure, sure.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, right.
And everybody's different and everything.
And, you know, to me, if it's something
positive in your life and you.
You want to have it make your life better,
great.
You know, because your spirit guides are not
there to say, hey, dummy, you're an idiot.
They're there to be like, hey, just want you

(37:04):
to know you're doing fine.
You're doing great, you know, whatever.
That's, you know, kind of the.
The gist I got from it.
Absolutely.
But look at.
Look at.
You know, you may want to look at this and,
you know, you're doing your best as this andso on and so forth.
So totally get that.
So now let's get to Something people obviously
want to know that.
That's really interesting.

(37:25):
Have you ever investigated a case where theclient or whoever or location where a negative
or malevolent entity was there so somethingevil?
Have you ever done that?

Speaker B (37:37):
I have, actually.
My second location, my business was in a space
that had something that was.
I like to call it difficult.

Speaker A (37:49):
Okay.

Speaker B (37:51):
At times it felt very menacing, and it's probably the most menacing I've ever,
like, energy I've ever felt.

Speaker A (38:00):
How so, Christine?

Speaker B (38:02):
It was physically aggressive.
So I would have clients in my space.
I worked by appointment only, but I had aspace in downtown Kocana that was a
storefront.
It was a former jewelry building, and before
that it had been a clock and watch shop.
And it would literally, you know, it had

(38:22):
swiped things off of my shelves, like, towardsus.
It had tossed things off of high, you know,shelves in the back that.
Where there's no way that it would have beenvibrational moving it.
I was in the space for 13 years.
The landlord was having difficulty keeping
tenants in the apartment upstairs, which was abeautiful apartment that the jewelry store

(38:45):
owner's son, who had become an architect, hadrefinished and turned into a really beautiful
space.
And finally the landlord sat down with me and
I said to him, I'm like.
He's like, I don't know why I can't keep
anyone up there.
And I said, well, I'll be honest with you.
The last people moved out, you know, threemonths into their lease and disappeared.

(39:07):
They.
They just would not have contact with them.
And I said, I really, you know, they came tome and asked me if I had had experiences.
And I. I didn't deny it, but I also could tellhow afraid they were.
And I wanted to respect my landlord because hewas the building owner, and I. I understood
his stance on things, but he.
He did end up bringing someone in to actually

(39:28):
go through and bless the space and had bettersuccess after that.
But, yeah, this.
This entity, and I. I hesitate to say spirit,
because it really was not a crossover human inany way, shape or form.
It was definitely more what we would think ofas elemental.

Speaker A (39:48):
Right.

Speaker B (39:48):
But even more powerful than that because it definitely had its own identity.
And as time went on, we came to find out thatother buildings on, you know, on both blocks,
on both sides of the street were also havingissues.
And we were all able to pinpoint that itreally had started when they had closed down
the river in Kaukana to reroute things andmove and shift so they could put in a walkway

(40:12):
there.
So it was Closed down for almost two years and
kind of rerouted so they could close off astreet that had gone over in that direction,
put a walking path.
And whether it was, you know, I, I always had
the sense that it was perhaps indigenous tothe area.
And, and just really once we had an agreement,backed off for the most part, and then it
would just play with things electrically,frequency wise around my space.

(40:36):
But we no longer had violent throwing ofthings off of my shelves.
Yeah, yeah.
I actually had a client and her husband who
wouldn't come back into my space because itpicked up a sign and swiped off an entire
lipstick makeup display.
But the sign was one that was standing like
this and it just literally elevated and wentlike this and swiped away.

(40:57):
And they were each standing on opposite endsof the, the makeup displays.
And I was talking to them from the doorway ofthe back room, facing them.
So one had their door, their back to the frontdoor, and the other was standing, you know,
across the room, both of them looking at it.
So we all saw it happen.
The husband tried and tried.
He went and jumped on the floor next to it.

(41:17):
He went and opened and closed the front door.
Nothing was making that move.
And they just said to us, they're like, we'retoo afraid.

Speaker A (41:24):
So, yeah, scary stuff that goes in perfectly into.
My next question is, have you ever had to dealwith a situation where a client became overly
emotional or fearful during maybe aninvestigation or during one of your sessions
or whatever you want to call it?And how did you respond to that?

Speaker B (41:42):
Yeah, I mean, in that sense, yes, because I had clients who were in the space
and my, my first instinct is like, you know, afrustrated parent, I would say, where I'm
like, we're going to talk about this, but it'sreally to then, you know, take care of the
person in front of me.
And my focus is just to kind of calm them and
let them know I'm in control and I can handlethis so they don't have to worry because

(42:06):
they're safe with me.
The person, the human in front of me is safe
with me.
And then, you know, I do all of the work
behind the scenes and take care of things.
So, you know, like a duck on the water, I'm
calm, cool and collective.
Above the surface.
I would say.
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker A (42:21):
So let me ask you, let me ask you this, like, with something like that, how do
you, like, maintain.
I, I'll use the word boundaries and respect.
You know, during that time, when dealing withlike something potentially like this that
could be harmful or maybe there's somesensitive or personal information that you

(42:42):
might come through.
You.
I mean, how do you deal with that?With clients that, you know, you gotta tell
them something that's like, how do I do this?

Speaker B (42:51):
As I have gone through life, I've gotten very comfortable just setting
boundaries, whether that's with real people orwith entities on the other side.
And so I'm very clear about my word holdspower, an intention.
My physical being holds frequency and powerand intention.
And they will not cross a threshold if I sayit is not allowed.
They will not follow someone home if I say itis not allowed.

(43:14):
These things just don't happen.
And I hold the power to stop it from
happening.
So everyone holds that ability.
And it takes a long time to build thatconfidence.
And believe you me, I still have moments whereI am fearful and worried.
And I just have to remind myself of all of theincredible times that my setting a boundary

(43:34):
has worked.
And when I feel like my boundaries are pushed,
whether it be in real life or on the otherside, I then seek someone who has more
experience than me or who has the confidenceto help rebuild that in me.

Speaker A (43:54):
Right, Right.
So that's awesome.
I mean, that makes perfect sense.
But let me a story I was going to share with
you that you answered that perfectly was Iinterviewed this cup couple from Australia,
and they're new to paranormal investigatingeverything, and they actually let in a little

(44:14):
boy come home with them.
The husband said, hey, you can come home with
us if you want.
And I was like, do you realize that's not what
you're supposed to do?And he's like, yeah, kind of realize that
later.
And one of the things is this child was like.
Like being a child, like, moving things,touching things.

(44:35):
They woke up or they saw a handprint on theceiling.
And, you know, they have kids and everythinglike that.
So they were like, hey, little Billy, comehere.
Put your hand up there.
You know, you doing that?
And they're like, no, how can I get up there?Because they have higher ceilings.
So that's something I guess you could tell myaudience is, you shouldn't do that.
Correct?You should have.

(44:57):
Yes, correct.

Speaker B (44:58):
Right, right.
You know, I mean, I would say you should very
clearly not do that.
I think that their intentions were probably
good.
As parents, they see a child that seems, you
know, maybe a little confused.
I would guess that that's what their instinct
was telling them.
And they felt like they wanted to comfort and
care for that child.

(45:18):
And that child came and did what kids did.
You who don't have boundaries and Decided topush, you know, those things and see what they
could get away with.
So I would tell them that if they still have
the intention of caring for this child andwanting that child to be a part of their
space, Then I would just very clearly besetting boundaries, as they do with their own

(45:40):
children, about what is expected and what isallowed.
And remind that child, too, that they canobviously come and go as they please.
So they have elsewhere that they enjoy andappreciate.
But I would also even say they might be evenable to go as far as to remind that child that
they're not stuck being a child eitheranymore.

Speaker A (45:59):
Right. Right. Yeah, I love that.
And you know what I always sympathize for
female paranormal investigators are whenyou're going into, let's say, a hospital, an
abandoned hospital, A lot of those places,children, unfortunately died there because,
frankly, we did not have at that time.

(46:19):
Or maybe abusive medical professionals that
could help them.
So, you know, numerous times and.
And see if this ever happened to you.
Where female investigators have felt a child's
hand grab their hand because they're like,this seems like a nice woman.
She looks like my mom.
I'll go home with her.
And, you know, and they've set boundaries andstuff.

(46:42):
Has that ever happened to you?Have you been in an investigation of maybe
where children have unfortunately passed, andyou're like, wow, I'm really feeling this is
going to be kind of an issue?

Speaker B (46:54):
Yeah, I. I mean, I have.
I've felt children, But I've also felt women
who were, you know, falsely accused of notmentally being well, to be controlled or who
died because they weren't listened to and theywere medically gaslit.
And, you know, I think that's still an issueand modern society, unfortunately.

(47:14):
But, yeah, I. I've often felt that, Paul, inhospitals, prisons, those, you know, mental
health institutions, asylums, those sort ofthings, they.
They all tend to have something in common,which is everywhere else that I investigate.
Spirit has always very clearly been like, yes,I can come and go.
But many times in these places where there'sbeen such trauma and such a mass scale.

(47:40):
I'm not exactly sure why.
I have many theories, But I feel so many
spirits on the other side get caught in thepersonality of where they were when their life
was cut short.
And they get stuck reliving that and.
And experiencing it when really my experiencehas been that that it.

(48:02):
They can flow and come and go.
They just almost forget that they have that
ability.

Speaker A (48:07):
Yeah. Now, one thing that's fascinating me too, and I need.
I need your Thoughts on this?Because I don't think anyone's ever given me a
really good an about this.
Why do you think evil spirits.
I'm just gonna use evil as a generic term.
Okay.

Speaker B (48:23):
Okay.

Speaker A (48:23):
Why do you think with teenage girls or young women, they.
They tend to migrate towards and tend to latchonto and cause issues.
Cause a lot of poltergeist activity has to dowith.
There's teenage girls in there.
Now you can tell me, you know, there's a
number of famous cases on it, you know aboutit, conjuring movies and so on and so on.

(48:47):
Why do you think that is?Why would they, you know.

Speaker B (48:51):
So as a practicing witch, I'm going to say, first of all that some of it has to do
with divine feminine connection.
I do believe this.
But energetically, when women are having hugehormonal shift in life, we tend to see an
energetic shift that's measurable from theirbeing, from their body.
And this, I think, is also a great source ofpower, thus creating poltergeist activity.

(49:16):
We see this in menopausal women happen aswell.
There's many documentations of menopausalwomen.
In fact, some of the earliest documentationsof poltergeist activity surround menopausal
women.
And interesting enough, I actually assisted on
just kind of doing a reading for a team thatcould not figure out what was going on in a

(49:38):
home.
And they said, you know, like, we're not
getting responses, but we're getting physicalmovement like poltergeist activity, but we
can't figure out what's happening.
You know, right away I said, there's someone
transitioning in the house.
And they said, yeah, actually, one of the
teenage kids were in the process oftransitioning.
And I said, no, there's also an adult.

(50:00):
And they said, yes, actually, one of the
parents were also coming forward with a newidentity and transitioning.
So again, hormonal imbalance can shift energy.
And I think that entities that are seeking
control and seeking understanding, but maybehaven't evolved into a healthier place or a

(50:20):
higher plane, however you want to look at it,they're still struggling with life review.
And they see that power, and it's like amagnet.
So protecting yourself when you're vulnerable,whether it be because you're having a hormonal
transition or you're shifting in, you know,health as well.
I think a lot of times we see that people whogo through major health scares have more

(50:42):
paranormal activity experience as well.

Speaker A (50:45):
Yeah.

Speaker B (50:45):
And that's a point where you really need to know that you have Boundaries.
Because you do not want something coming atyou while you're trying to physically heal
yourself.

Speaker A (50:53):
Absolutely.

Speaker B (50:54):
But doing healing work, I do come across that quite a bit.
And yeah, I really believe it has to do withthe energetic shift in our bodies as our
hormones fluctuate.

Speaker A (51:04):
Yeah, that makes perfect sense.
Thank you, Christina.
So the hot topic that kind of relates to it isAnnabelle.
Annabelle's on tour.
Annabelle has now, I don't.
How can I say this?What is your feeling?
I'm just gonna get your feeling on it.

Speaker B (51:21):
Yeah.

Speaker A (51:21):
If it's cursed, what do you think? What's going on here?
I'll say my thing and you can tell me.
John, you're way off.
You suck.
It's terrible.
But is.
I don't think it's curse.
I think the people around it are bringing whatyou're saying, a certain energy, and they're
kind of making it.
And I can't remember the term.
Whatever.
Maybe you can help me out with it.

Speaker B (51:42):
Sure. Like.

Speaker A (51:45):
Right. Slender Man.
That's the first example that comes to my
head.
Slender man was a Photoshop weird art project
that some dude did and then here in Wisconsin,unfortunately, it led three girls to commit a
crime.
Well, two of the girls to commit a crime,
actually.
Do you really think about it?
It's actually one of the girls.
If you watch the documentary, it's so sad, you

(52:08):
know, probably not pumping it up, but if youwatch this poor girl going through some mental
issues, she winds up stabbing this other girl,thinking Slender Man's gonna take her to a
kind of heaven.
Well, obviously he's not to do it.
So Annabelle to me is a very conundrum thatI'm like, people are dying from it.
And now a comedian bought it with his.

(52:29):
With another paranormal friend and they're
doing the content.
What do you make of all this?
I just need your opinion.

Speaker B (52:35):
I think that the Warrens Museum is a lovely lesson in infused energy can do major
things.
Right.
So I do agree with you in the sense that it'screated a talva, but that doesn't mean that
there can't be directive energy surroundingthat.

(52:55):
And I think when we look at the history of theWarrens, especially Ed Warren, and what kind
of a sick individual he was.
I think that I am here for any entity that is
out to expose that.
So I don't believe that Annabelle the doll is

(53:17):
intentionally setting fires or doing thesesort of things.
However, I would say that there might beenergy of exposure and setting things right
that might be causing some of it.
Where I struggle with this, though, is the
Marie Laveau house in New Orleans.

Speaker A (53:38):
In New Orleans.

Speaker B (53:38):
Correct.
Being associated with that.
I don't think that there was a connectionthere as far as someone purchasing it and them
renting it out and those sort of things.
I mean, what an amazing lesson on what
collective energy can do to a haunting.
I can say that I've many times been in spaces

(53:59):
where maybe people over time have told thesame story over and over again, say, in a
location.
And I go in, and I'm like, okay, this is not
the haunting.
My team.
Usually I go in blind, and my team.
Well, there's two team members, Denise and
Kimberly, who do our research and ourbackground, and.
And they'll be able to confirm with me that,yes, you're correct.

(54:19):
There's.
There's no evidence of this situation ever
having taken place in this space.
But enough people have gone in, investigated
it, communicated with something that certainlysounds like it's, you know, someone from the
bordello or something that was once in thisbuilding.

Speaker A (54:34):
Yeah.

Speaker B (54:35):
That never really existed.
And they get great evidence.
And, you know, there again, collective energycan create something which is no different
than a prayer, which is no different thanorganized religion or a spell or.
You know, why do.
Why does prayer have big power?
Because many people are repeating the samewords over and over again with similar

(54:56):
intention.
Hauntings can be the same way.
Just might not be an actual once a person whohas once lived.
Right.
So.

Speaker A (55:06):
Correct.
And the mind is an extremely powerful part of
your body that you can.
You know, people have healed themselves using
their mind.
People have gotten out of situations that have
maybe been not the greatest.
You know, just using your mind and using other
tools that.
With Annabelle, I'm like.

(55:28):
Like, I've spoken to people of cursed dollsand those.
This is curse.
You know, we've seen the dolls move and all
this stuff.
And what.
And I'm like, you know, how much energy thattakes.
People don't understand.
Right.
Christina, if you're a entity or a spirit, tomove something isn't like, I'm just picking up
this.
There we go.

(55:49):
Or grabbing my phone.
No, that takes a lot.
That takes a lot of energy.
And for someone to be that affected where
they're affecting the way they live or die.
Okay.
You know what I mean?And, you know, a lot of it has to do.
Again, the Warrens, I want to do a thing onthis.
I know there's some Warren supporters outthere, and they've said they did some good,

(56:11):
and they really brought to the forefront.
But if you dig deep into it.
You know, Ed Warren was not a nice person, andhe did a lot of it for money, and he destroyed
a lot of lives.
Rain Warren, I think she was, in my opinion,
not sucked into this, but kind of like, okay,I guess I'll do it, but I still want to

(56:31):
maintain this type of professionalism.
And like, well, if you do that, we're not
going to make money kind of attitude.
I don't know.
Do you.
Do you look at that a little differently than
I do?Because it's.

Speaker B (56:43):
I think that a lot of people don't realize the extent of their background and
their personal lives and just what they weredoing, right, Aside from the paranormal stuff.
And for me, that, like, automaticallydisqualifies someone from the realm of things,
like.
But also, I'm not opposed to saying, like, you
know, we can recognize that yes, they.

(57:04):
They did bring things to the mainstream, but I
don't know how much good they actually did forit because I feel like they fed into, like,
the whole satanic panic thing.
I feel like they fed into all of that.
And as a witch, as a practicing witch, like,I. I don't think that creating any sort of us
and them, other than maybe saying that peoplewho abuse children or people who assault,

(57:29):
rape, those sort of things, like, that is another that we don't want to have be socially
acceptable.
But when it comes to, you know, creating,
like, separation between things, I don't knowthat they really drove things forward that
well.
As far as the comedian who's going to own it,
I don't know much about him.

(57:50):
I know that he was, like a big Internet
sensation for a long time.
I don't know if he has a past or a history.
I know that he was up against Zach Baggins,supposedly for buying the property.
If he doesn't have a past like, Zach's, like,congratulations on winning out on it.
I hope you do a good thing with it.
I guess I don't know, you know, I. In that
sense, I don't know them personally, and Idon't know that there's evidence to me that

(58:13):
they're good or bad people.
So I can't really speak on it.
I will say this, though.
I will say that I wish that more locations
that had activity, especially historiclocations who are hurting for funding,
hurting, hurting for money, hurting to takecare of the buildings, would open them up to
small paranormal teams for investigation, andmaybe in the future then pair with a team to

(58:37):
do some sort of funding or easing event bydoing larger group investigations or even, you
know, Small things along those lines.
But yeah, I mean, so if we have more
investigation locations that are legitimateand respectful, I think that's great.
But in this sense, I'm not.
I'm not.
I'm.

Speaker A (58:55):
Yeah, yeah.
So one thing is I. I've spoken to other
witches and stuff, and however you want me tocall.
If you don't like that term.

Speaker B (59:01):
No, I like that term.

Speaker A (59:03):
You know, why do you think you're viewed as collectively negative?
You know, that, that, I mean, you're witch.
I. I think a lot of people, they think you're
in the basement in a pentagram with a baby andblood and you're like, oh.
And I'm like, you.
And I, I joke about it.
All people I've told that, they all kind oflaugh about it and they're like, you know, you

(59:28):
know that click.

Speaker B (59:29):
Yeah.

Speaker A (59:29):
You know, people see that, they click.
They don't understand you're doing.
And please explain what you do talking to
other witches.
Like, they've done spells for people who are,
like, going through a tough time.
Like, you know, I asked about, did you love
spells?And they're like, not really.
Most of the witches I spoke to, like, yeah.
I mean, they're saying, like, if they.

Speaker B (59:50):
Have, like, I do a love spell myself.

Speaker A (59:53):
Oh, there you go.

Speaker B (59:54):
Like when I'm having a low time.
Absolutely.
Like, yeah.
I don't cast on anyone without their consent.
So. Okay, that's just my personal take.
I'm not Wiccan.
I started out transitioning from Catholicismto Wicca, which was pretty normal transition,
but it's also a little bit of a patriarchalyuck to me.

(01:00:14):
Once I really got older and started to realizewhat it was.
No shame on those who still practiced becauseI think there's still a lot of beauty to it
and there are many things from it that Icarried into my solitary practice.

Speaker A (01:00:26):
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker B (01:00:27):
But I. I think people think we're scary because we're still.
Well, yes, yes.
But.
But if we look back just to the imagery ofwitches, right?
This broken nose, scary looking, gray, greenwoman.
There's a lot of writings on this theory, butif we look at the way that women were punished

(01:00:48):
in attempts to get them to come forward andsay that they were practicing witchcraft in
Puritan society, or in that sense where theywere trying to say that it was more devil
worship because it was something that wasunknown and anything that wasn't a part of
their society and their practice religion wasevil.

(01:01:09):
So when we look at that, the abuse that thesewomen were put through, men, not as many, but.
And men that they were put through disfiguredtheir bodies to create the image of the modern
witch.
Right.
So that is part of it.
We also know that many times women were
accused of these terrible things because theywere women of power and they were trying to

(01:01:33):
take their land or trying to take away theirfortune in a time when that wasn't necessarily
allowed.
And if we go back even further, we see that we
have societies where there was feminineworship and divine feminine was the priority
and the theme.
And as that shifted into a more patriarchal
structure, we saw that pushback.

(01:01:55):
And I think we're seeing, sadly, a rise here
again against witchcraft, which.
It's no different.
I always tell people, if I'm doing a spell,it's no different than you going and kneeling
down and saying the rosary or lighting acandle in a chapel, so.

Speaker A (01:02:10):
Yeah, correct.
And, you know, I love my witches because, you
know, I've always just loved to experiment andjust.
I love just the whole genre or mysticism ofit.
There's a lot that goes into it, folks.
It's just not, you know, Christina sitting
there and just staring at a wall and somethinghappens kind of attitude.

(01:02:32):
No, there's a number of different things.
And two things I think that have endured over
the year, dealing with that is the Bellwickthat is still to this day, even though it's
kind of been disproved, that it might havebeen an incestuous relationship.
Yuck.
I get it, all right?
But Blair Witch Project, I think, brought itto a whole new level, right?

(01:02:55):
That it was.
It was good and bad.
It was good that, you know, oh, okay, so weknow there's mysticism up, and it was bad that
people went, oh, I knew it.
Witches are bad.
Look what they did to these poor kids.
I knew it.
I knew it.
They.
They were hanging.
Hanging up these weird, you know, totems or
whatever up there, and, ooh, everybody does,you know, people, you know, and.

Speaker B (01:03:18):
And I. I will say, like, whatever, as long as we aren't actually going out and
punishing real people.
And we're not grooming people to punish real
people who are.
We're not doing bad things, you know, and we,
us witches, love you, too, John.
Like, that's.
You know, it takes.
Hey, look, it takes a strong person to

(01:03:39):
celebrate other strong people.
And I love that, like, that you do that, so.

Speaker A (01:03:44):
Absolutely.

Speaker B (01:03:46):
And that's what we need, is just strong people who can be vulnerable,
supporting other strong people who can bevulnerable.

Speaker A (01:03:53):
And not to get too deep into this, maybe we could do another episode of this, but
just fascinates me.
I've spoken to Satanists.
Okay.
And I have read the Satanic Bible because I
think if you're ignorant, you're never gonnalearn anything.
Like, even if you might be reading somethingand be like, this is the worst, you know,
let's say you're reading something that outthere, like Mein Kampf.

(01:04:14):
You're like, hey, hey, hey.
Why are you reading it?
You're reading it because you want tounderstand.
Why is this happening?Why did this happen?
I'm a big history guy, and people every singleday don't understand how history 500 years ago
is happening right now, folks.
Okay?
Right.

(01:04:34):
So with the satanic religion, when I was
reading and I was talking to people more aboutit, and a lot of people cringe.
Ooh, ooh.
You know, like that.
I'm like, okay, not to get into this religiousargument.
Mention on the Catholics and Lutherans andall, but you don't have a great track record.
Let's not.
Let's not put that out there.

(01:04:54):
It's out there.
Okay.
All right.
And from reading that, what was fascinating to
me, and this kind of deals with witches, too,a little bit, is the whole thing was, hey,
love yourself for who you are.
Do what you want to do.
Have a good time.
There was some other wonky stuff in there.
You're like, okay, you were on drugs when youwere writing this.
I get it.

(01:05:15):
But the whole thing is.
That's one thing I like.
You know, that certain religions don't like,
you swore, so now you're going to hell.
Oh, you didn't go to church, so now you're
going to hell.
And it's dogma that's on people.

Speaker B (01:05:28):
Yeah, that.

Speaker A (01:05:29):
That they can't say, like, well, wait a minute again, not to get in anything.
But God is everywhere.
And you believe in God.
You could worship in he, she, it, whatever.
In your own.
Yeah, right.

Speaker B (01:05:42):
Absolutely.

Speaker A (01:05:43):
Yeah. So I. I don't.
Because it's.
It's getting scary in the sense there is not asatanic panic, you know, which I hope never
happens.
But to your point, there is where people and
different cultures and.
And different minorities and ethnicities do
something a little different.
And people.
You're evil.
I'm like, do you think there's ever a way we

(01:06:06):
can relate to just the general person and makethem understand that this is not hurtful, that
it's helpful?I don't know.

Speaker B (01:06:15):
I mean, it's really hard.
It's really difficult because many people come
into their faith, their Religion from birth,and they're groomed to think and believe one
way, and they're surrounded by only otherpeople who think and believe in that way.
So atrocious things have been done in the nameof religion.

Speaker A (01:06:36):
Yeah.

Speaker B (01:06:38):
Just because that's what's been created as an acceptable behavior practice
within that circle.
And in order to shift someone's mind, we
almost have to look at it as that they've beenheld in a hostage situation.
They haven't been given access to theeducation of understanding and being able to
develop their own opinions and research onthings.

(01:06:59):
Like, I've raised two beautiful young humans,and I would say through life, I've always
introduced them to different practices,different cultures, different belief systems,
given them the honor, opportunity, and had thehonor of being able to give them the
opportunity to, you know, learn and understandthat and use their own thought process to come

(01:07:24):
into a place of what they understand.
But we really have to treat someone who is
fearful that way as the victim that they areof the environment that they were raised in.
I was raised Catholic, and if we look atthings, you know, people still come back to
the Ten Commandments all the time or OldTestament things.
And yeah.
Like, I'm like, did you read the New

(01:07:44):
Testament?Because, like, Jesus came along and said,
we're supposed to forget all that and thenjust be nice to one another.

Speaker A (01:07:49):
Yeah, yeah.
Right.

Speaker B (01:07:50):
And yet, you know, that's.
That's what happens when we put human thought
process and struggle for power and fear, thatcauses that struggle for power and grab, you
know, the power grab that happens.

Speaker A (01:08:03):
Yeah.

Speaker B (01:08:04):
When we put that on something that's supposed to be collectively,
energetically bigger than us.

Speaker A (01:08:11):
Yeah.

Speaker B (01:08:11):
I think that's where we get mixed up.
So I try not to say that I understand it all,but I like to conceptualize the fact that any
deity or faith or anything you believe in,just like we were talking before, that you
give energy and power to, especially when it'scollective, has energy and power.

Speaker A (01:08:27):
Yeah.

Speaker B (01:08:28):
So I would prefer to think that I want.
And my hope is that that energy and power,that deity, whatever you believe in, is loving
and good and understanding and here for thecollective consciousness of growth and beauty
and, you know, it doesn't matter what youbelieve.
Like, that's kind of where I like to think ofit.

Speaker A (01:08:49):
I couldn't have said that better myself.
Christina.
I could talk to you for hours, and I wish I
could and just keep you here with me.

Speaker B (01:08:55):
Such a pleasure.

Speaker A (01:08:58):
But, you know, again, you're always enlightening and you're always full of love
and hope and.
And that's the greatest thing, which is
awesome.
But I have to ask you this question.
Yeah, I get.
If I won the lottery tomorrow, by the way, if
I. Hopefully I do.
And I said, here, Christina, you can go
anywhere you want and investigate anywhere youwant.

(01:09:19):
Or just, I don't know, me.
You want to go to see a Tibetan monk?
I got an open checkbook for you.
I will give you the jet.
Where would you go?

Speaker B (01:09:27):
Oh, this is so tough.
People ask me this and I'm like, oh, I don't
know.
I want to pick a place, and then I'm going to
pick a backup place.

Speaker A (01:09:34):
Okay.

Speaker B (01:09:34):
So I would like to go to.
I don't know, I'd like to go maybe to a site
in Ireland, not one of the more frequentlyvisited sites.
I would probably pick someplace that's maybe alittle.
Little less visited.
All right, so some sort of ruins or, you know,
my second place, it's a tie, but I'll.

(01:09:56):
I'll pick.
I think I would want to be able to investigatein some ancient ruins in either Greece or
Turkey.
Maybe one of the temples.
Yeah, I think that would probably be my otherchoice.
So. It's a tough.
It's a toss up for me, really.

Speaker A (01:10:13):
What are you looking for? Spiritualism?
Are you looking for.
What are you looking for?

Speaker B (01:10:18):
I think a little bit of ancestral connection, A little bit of, like, connection
to maybe some of the gods and goddesses that Istarted my witchcraft journey with and
continue to occasionally work with.
And also just the older something is,
especially where there was energetic practice,so some sort of religion or that sort of

(01:10:43):
thing.
I feel like those spaces, you know, we don't
get to investigate a lot of those spacesoftentimes.
So I would.
I think those would be an honor.

Speaker A (01:10:52):
I love it.

Speaker B (01:10:52):
So I hope you win the lottery because you and I, we're gonna take the team,
we're gonna go to Ireland, and I'm gonna tryand sweet talk it into Greece or Turkey, maybe
both on one trip.

Speaker A (01:11:03):
Okay, let's do that.

Speaker B (01:11:05):
You bring the.
You. Yeah.

Speaker A (01:11:06):
Like, you know, but you gotta do.
Come with me to.
I always say this.
Transylvania.
I wanna.
I want to go to Thessaloni.
I know.

Speaker B (01:11:17):
I'm there.
We could probably just take a world tour.
We'll just take a year.

Speaker A (01:11:20):
We'll tour it.

Speaker B (01:11:23):
Absolutely. Yeah. And you and I, we'll try cheese everywhere we go, because
we'll try our farmers.

Speaker A (01:11:28):
Try cheese everywhere.
And maybe some beer and throw that on there
and see what I'm not.

Speaker B (01:11:32):
A beer Drinker, but I will eat cheese.

Speaker A (01:11:33):
Well, wine or.
Yeah, wine.

Speaker B (01:11:37):
Absolutely.
Yeah, yeah, sure.
I'm game.

Speaker A (01:11:40):
We're down.
I just got to win the lottery.
We'll work on it.

Speaker B (01:11:43):
I believe in you energetically.
I'm sending it your way.
All right.
Yes.
Yes.

Speaker A (01:11:51):
So, Christine, do you have anything coming up or do you want to maybe pitch, you
know, people get a hold of you or what?Do you want to talk?

Speaker B (01:11:58):
Sure. Well, you can find me on Instagram under Giantess X Tina, because that
was always a cute little nickname that somefriends had for me, and I just haven't changed
it.
You can also find us under the Wisconsin
Apparition Tracking Society on Instagram andTikTok, and you can also visit

(01:12:18):
[e-mail] and we also have anInstagram for that, too.
And I believe we have a Facebook for them,too.
But, you know, many people don't use Facebookas much anymore.
Yeah.
And we do have some fun things coming up.
We're going to be attending the Great LakesParanormal Convention in Glenbula, Wisconsin,

(01:12:39):
in September as a team, just going asattendees.
We want to support that here in the greatstate of Wisconsin.
And then we are investigating the Roth houseagain this fall.
And we have some private investigations inChicago that we've lined up.
So, yeah, we've got a busy schedule going on.

Speaker A (01:13:00):
I love it.
Well, as you know, you always.
I want you to come back.
Hope maybe I can get you back around Halloween
and.
And we can kind of talk.
We talk about lots of different things fromthere.

Speaker B (01:13:11):
Yeah.

Speaker A (01:13:12):
Awesome.

Speaker B (01:13:12):
That sounds great.

Speaker A (01:13:14):
Thank you so much again.
This is amazing.
You know, like I said, I can talk to you forhours because you're such a great person.

Speaker B (01:13:19):
I agree, John. Thank you so much.

Speaker A (01:13:22):
Just so much.
So, so much fun.
So again, when this episode comes out, I'llhave all the links through Christina's social
media and all this good stuff.
And again, I can't say it enough.
Make sure you're supporting people, not onlyChristina and me, but other people out there.
It's important that you do, like I said, a fewbucks here, a few bucks there, or, you know,

(01:13:43):
go on social and share it with your friends.
Even a little thing like that is a really good
thing.
Or, you know, reach out to Christina, Right.
And maybe ask him some questions for her.
You know what I mean?

Speaker B (01:13:55):
I love that.
I would love that.
Yeah.

Speaker A (01:13:56):
Love the help.
Love the help.
So, again, thank you so much.
And stay spooky, all right?