Lifting the Veil with Abbie – Hauntings, Cursed Objects & UFO Encounters

Hello, my spooky friends! 👻 In this episode of Dairyland Frights, I’m joined by Abbie from the UK-based paranormal show Lifting the Veil. Together, we dive deep into chilling hauntings, haunted jails, cursed objects, child spirits, UFO hotspots, and some of the most famous cases from both sides of the pond.

👥 Guest:

Abbie – Host of Lifting the Veil, chair of Haunted Devon, and seasoned paranormal investigator. With decades of experience in hauntings, spiritual encounters, and UFO phenomena, she brings incredible stories and insights from her investigations in the UK and beyond.

🔮 Topics We Cover:

• Abbie’s first paranormal experiences growing up in a haunted home.

• Bodmin Jail and the spirit attachment that followed her.

• Investigations at Salem Chapel and encounters with the infamous Samuel Leete.

• Famous UK cases: Borley Rectory, the Enfield Poltergeist, and the Black Monk of Pontefract.

• Cursed objects: Annabelle, Robert the Doll, and whether energy can be “attached” to items.

• Rendlesham Forest UFO incident and modern-day sightings.

• Crop circles, guardians of the land, and Abbie’s close encounters with strange lights and figures.

• Are extraterrestrials here to help or harm us?

🕯️ Why Listen:

If you love haunted asylums, eerie jails, ghostly children, cursed dolls, or the mystery of UFOs, this episode is packed with chilling tales and thought-provoking insights. Abbie’s stories will make you question what’s lurking beyond the veil.

📌 Links & Support:

• Follow Lifting the Veil: 

• Support Dairyland Frights on Patreon: Become a Parasconnie today!

• Don’t forget to like, subscribe, and rate us ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐—it helps keep the spooky stories coming!

And remember, my friends… stay spooky! 👻

Episode Transcript

Speaker A (00:00):
Foreign.
Hello, my spooky friends, this is John, yourhost of Dairyland Frights in the spookier
podcast Nightland Frights.

(00:20):
And I wanted to thank all my spooky friends
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I truly appreciate it.
Please like and subscribe and rate us 5 stars.
It helps you make this a better podcast and
make sure you comment what guests you wouldlike me to have on what topics you would like
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It only going to make this podcast better.

(00:41):
So again, thank you so much for listening andplease go to my patreon, check that out.
Become a Parasconi for only $3, a spookyfriend for a dollar.
And remember,
stay spooky.
Hello, my spooky friends, and welcome to theparanormal podcast Dairyland Frights that

(01:02):
covers everything spooky,
creepy and mysterious in the Midwest andbeyond.
And I'm your host, John,
and on the podcast tonight is Abby fromLifting the Veil.
She's from the uk.
I love my UK people.
I just had some Australian,
a couple on paranormal investigators on, andevery time I can get international people on,

(01:25):
I love it because you guys have such a richhistory.
I mean, like, it's, it's just blows my mind.
I know America has a rich history too, but inthe UK it's such a great history.
So thank you, Abby,
for joining me.
I truly appreciate it.

Speaker B (01:40):
It's an honor to be here.
Thank you for having me on.
I mean, yeah, I mean, we've got, we've got thehistory, but you guys have got more the energy
on the surface because your history is sorecent.
You find the stories from America and thehauntings from America, they just seem to be a
little bit more alive, so to speak.

Speaker A (01:55):
Yeah, yeah,
yeah.
We have a lot of different things.
Obviously, Gettysburg is one of our biggestthing.
That's where a lot of paranormal investigatorskind of like their.
On their wish list to go.
Because it's so, so many things happening.
Obviously in the UK there's so many differentthings.
Jails, haunted homes,

(02:17):
pubs, on and on and on.
List goes on and on and on.
It's awesome.

Speaker B (02:21):
We don't really have the asylums anymore.
They've kind of been turned into apartments.
Whether you'd want to live in that.

Speaker A (02:26):
Is that,
that blows my mind.
Doesn't that blow your mind?
Like, you know, here at this asylum, these.
Well, let's be honest, they didn't treat
people with much respect,
Right?
And then it's your flat or your apartment now,what could go wrong?

Speaker B (02:43):
Just got the Exorcist on speed dial.

Speaker A (02:44):
You know, Hello, Yes, Priest, show up.
We need you.
Okay.
Again.
Yes, again.
Just get here.

Speaker B (02:53):
Instead of like, you know, southwest water, let's just plug in the holy
water.

Speaker A (02:57):
Yeah, yeah, just tap it straight in,
right?Yeah, we got like a little squirt gun, as we
would say here in the States, and justblasting everybody with it.
So, Abby, tell me about Lifting the Veil.
It is a radio show.
What I love about, I was reading your website,
which is awesome website by the way, andlooking through some of your different
investigations, which you can comment onobviously.

(03:19):
But why did you start it?Well, what, what I don't know, gave you kind
of in the,
I don't know, the empowerment to say, like,hey, I really want to do this.
I, you know, this is something I would love todo.

Speaker B (03:31):
Well, I kind of like had a bit of a paranormal life, so to speak.
I've had experiences from a very early age.
My, my first house where I lived and I grewup, it's no longer there anymore.
It's been demolished.
They used to be a spirit of a woman there and
I used to pull a.
Because I couldn't see her, I could only hearher.
So that kind of like sparked off my, mypassion for it throughout life and having

(03:54):
experiences growing up.
Then I joined Haunted Devon and since gone on
to, to become chair of the club.
And then the opportunity came to, to host aradio show on sound arts, all about the
paranormal.
And I started that in, in 2012.
And yeah, I've been doing it ever since.
So, yeah, I've had some amazing guests,amazing subjects, and been on some amazing

(04:16):
investigations and met some truly fabulouspeople.

Speaker A (04:18):
Yeah. Before we talk about that, Abby, back up.
When was your first paranormal experience?Do you remember what age and what, what
happened?

Speaker B (04:27):
I was a toddler, so I was quite young.
The house, I, I,
I guess you'd call it poltergeist activity.
My mom has told me a lot of the stuff because
obviously I can't remember a lot of it beingso young, but we used to have light bulbs,
unscrew the telly used to turn on and off.
Things used to get moved around.
I remember, I do remember this one incident

(04:48):
that my nan and my mom came crashing into mybedroom when I was asleep because they heard
all the furniture moving around and theythought,
what's going on?What's she doing?
I was asleep in my bed, but my bed was kind oflike in the middle of the room instead of to
the side.
So there was a lot going on.
And I used to say to my mum, I can't get tosleep.
I can't get to sleep.
They're talking to me, they're talking to me.

(05:08):
So she used to have to come in overnight andjust say, you know, leave her alone, she's
fine asleep.
But I think the most bizarre incident would bewhen my mom was getting me dressed.
I was gotta be what, coming up to about fiveand she'd put this brown jumper on me, this
horrible brown jumper.
And we didn't know where it come from and itdidn't fit and it was a goats wool jumper and

(05:29):
not something that I had.
So we had no idea where this old fashioned
goats wool knitted jumper had come from, thishandmade jumper.
So we kind of assumed it was Letsi.
I remember drawing a picture of her when I was
little because I never saw her with my eyes,but I see with my mind, so to speak.
Yeah, she was kind of almost like a Victorianlady, like hair and like a bonnet and I

(05:51):
wouldn't say formally dressed, I'd say quite,you know, like an average working person.
So she kind of like had a blouse and a pennyand a skirt and she, she had a basket of wool
and knitting needles.
So we, we kind of assumed it came from her.
But yeah, it was, it was weird.
So, so loads of stuff used to happen in the

(06:13):
house.
It used to get apples, things used to appear,
disappear and noises and yeah, this, thiswoman basically Letsi was kind of like my
little guardian growing up.
So nice.
She kind of kept me going.
There was talk of maybe she was my, my great
great grandmother by the way I described her.

(06:36):
So we don't know if she was an actual spiritof the house or someone who was in the family
who was just, you know, looking after me as achild.

Speaker A (06:43):
Sure, sure.
Obviously this was more of a friendly, more of
a loving ghost than something you felt wasevil, you know.
Did you ever feel like there was somethingevil in the, in your house?

Speaker B (06:56):
No, no, I never felt it was evil.
It's just I couldn't sleep because they were
just like talking to me overnight.
So yeah, yeah, cried to my mom, like I can't
sleep because they keep talking to me.
So. My mom's very spiritual.
We're very spiritual in the family.
We've got a history of being sensitive.
So it's something that she just kind ofreadily accepted as what I was telling her was

(07:18):
true, that it wasn't just my imagination.
And obviously with the activity that was going
on in the house as well,
it kind of backed that up.
But it was never malevolent.
It Always felt very friendly.
Almost guardianship.
Like, it's mischievous.

Speaker A (07:32):
Yeah. Okay. All right.
And, you know, that's kind of common for a lot
of different people.
I've spoke to numerous people who have haunted
homes, and they all kind of share the samething.
Abby. They always say it's not like what yousee in the movies.
Some of it's like, you know, oh, they'removing stuff.
And it doesn't happen all the time.
It's more like you come home and all thecupboard doors are open.

(07:53):
You're like, okay.
Or like, you know, oh, where did.
Where did these plates go?Where did my car keys go?
Or, you know.
So I rarely have had people go like, you know,oh, my God.
Every day.
It's like,
every day.
Yeah. How could you live like that?
Right?
You couldn't.
It'd be.
It'd be impossible.
Like, oh, my God, I'm just trying to go towork or something.

(08:15):
We just give you my shirt or whatever.

Speaker B (08:18):
My glasses.

Speaker A (08:20):
Where my glasses.
Like, guys, stop it.
Right,
so do you remember?I always.
This is one of my favorite questions.
Do you remember your first.
First paranormal.
Paranormal investigation?
And where did you go and how did it go?
I guess.

Speaker B (08:36):
Well, it was in my 20s, so 20 years ago, a while ago now.
And it was at a place called Bodmin Jail inCornwall, which was built 16, 1700s time.
It was a very modern jail for its time, thefirst of its kind, which kind of like informed
how prisons were built from then on.
And it was a night ran by the jail itself andby these two people.

(08:59):
And it was a ghost night rather thaninvestigation.
It was my first one.
I was very naive.
I was very interested in it, researched theparanormal life and obviously from experiences
from when I was young.
And, yeah, a lot happened that night, but I
kind of brought something back with me aswell.
I kind of ended up with a bit of anattachment.
So.

Speaker A (09:18):
Okay, what happened? Tell me more.

Speaker B (09:20):
Well, there wasn't exactly what you call spiritual protection on the go there.
So there wasn't an open and there wasn't aclose.
So unfortunately, the people that were runningat the time, since then, they had a brilliant
medium, Mark Rablin, who we've worked with oncases before that have been on the slightly
negative side.
So, you know,
we've called him in because he's great withstuff like that.
But I ended up.

(09:40):
I was followed all night by something and I
was actually pushed when I was in the toiletsby myself.
I'd gone to the toilet in the middle of thenight.
I Mean, walking around these buildings, evenback then by myself, it wasn't a problem for
me.
It was just like, you know, as.

Speaker A (09:54):
You go, wow, okay.

Speaker B (09:56):
I left the groove and went to the loo because I was busting for the loo and they
were mid vigil somewhere in the bowels of theprison.
And I was there by myself and I'd gone up towhat was the bar and restaurant area at the
time and gone to the toilets.
And I was drying my hands and I was pushed andI kind of went backwards into the bin sort of
thing.
So I was like, okay, no, that's not okay.

(10:17):
Don't do that, please.
Kind of run out the toilets as fast as I
could.
Yeah,
yeah, I, I bought something home with me,which I affectionately called Bob in Jail Guy.
I didn't want to know anything about him.
I didn't want to open up to him.
I didn't, you know, I didn't want to invitehim in.
Basically, I kept him within the boundaries,outside my house.
So he was kind of like just outside.

(10:39):
But he could get into the extension areas
instead of the original building because Ilived in at the time like an Edwardian
townhouse villa sort of thing.
And I was on the bottom floor, so that was.
Would have been the servants areas, the
kitchens, that sort of thing.
And there were a few spirits there and they
were very good at keeping this guy out, to befair.
They didn't, they didn't.

(10:59):
They didn't want the riff raffing.
But yeah, it was noticed at the window.
Like people would see a flash of a knife at
the front window and in the kitchen and theextension area you'd get like lots of things
going on.
It sounded like things were crashing around inthe kitchen.
You go in there, knife.
It primarily picked on me and my partner atthe time who I was living with.

(11:22):
I kept telling him all these occurrences weregoing on and he was, oh, don't be silly, don't
be silly.
And it was very much targeting me.
I slept in what was one of the extensions.
So that wasn't good.

Speaker A (11:34):
Boy.

Speaker B (11:34):
No, you get things at the window.
And I'd have these horrible, horrible dreams,
recurring dreams where I'd be pushed to thefloor,
my, my hair and my head pulled back and mythroat cut.
And he was blaming me for,
for being caught, basically.
So it's your fault I got caught.
It was your fault I got caught.
Which was kept recurring in the dream.

(11:56):
I was lying in bed one night with my partnerat the time and we both heard what sounded
like executioner's drums.
And he looked at me, I looked at him and I waslike, see?
And he was like, holy shit, basically.
And I said, this is what I've been.
Been living with for, like, about six monthsat the time,
as I said, I blocked him out the house and Iactually returned him to Bob in jail because I

(12:17):
said he was outside in the garden, I wouldn'tlet him in the house.
Cause it was just like, no people that cameround, they could sense him.
And I was just like, ignore him, you know,just don't pay him any mind, you know, he's
not allowed in.
I'm not having that in my house.
And he was out there for a few years.
And I was going back to bombing jail since.
I mean, this is after I joined Haunted Devon

(12:38):
and I was doing the show and I just said tothis guy, I said, look, like,
you know, you going to get anywhere with me?I said, I can take you back.
Come back with me.
I said, you know, go and pick on the people
who are.
Who are doing the haunted nights and get yourjollies there.
But you're not.
You're not getting anything from me.
I'm not afraid of you.
You know,
once upon a time, I might have been, but, youknow, I've developed spiritually.

(12:58):
I've been doing this a while now.
I've developed, you know, spiritual practices
to keep you safe.
And. And, yeah, I deposited him back at BodminJail.
A week later.
I interviewed on the show a local author
called Jason Higgs.
And he'd just done a book on haunted Bodmin.
And in this book, he.
He told the story of Matthew Weeks and

(13:18):
Charlotte Diamond.
And I was live on air when he was explaining
this story and my jaw literally was just onthe floor.
He had murdered this girl.
And they had a sketch of this girl, she kind
of looked a bit like me.
And he described her death, basically, he
assaulted her.
We won't go further than that.

Speaker A (13:36):
Yeah, we get it.

Speaker B (13:38):
Yeah, he pushed her down,
lifted up, pulled her head back and slit herthroat, basically.
So it was.
It was how I was dreaming it.
And he blamed her for being caught becauseeveryone knew it was him that killed him.
And they put it all, all on these noticeboards all around Cornwall, all around the
parishes, for them to catch Matthew Weeksbecause he'd killed Charlotte Diamond.

(13:58):
So he blamed her for being caught.
So, yeah, blame the victim, blame the person.
You've just.

Speaker A (14:03):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, right, yeah.

Speaker B (14:05):
Narcissistic ghosts.
What can you say?

Speaker A (14:08):
Yeah, come on, ghosts.

Speaker B (14:09):
Come on, guy.

Speaker A (14:10):
Yeah.

Speaker B (14:10):
You know, so.
But my jaw hit the floor because as I said, I
didn't want to know anything about this guy.
I wasn't going to connect with him in any way.
But the dreams, the recurring dreams that Ihad that he was giving me was exactly the same
as the story of Matthew Weeks and CharlotteDiamond.
And it was just like when I was literallylistening to him tell the story, I was just
like,
right,

(14:32):
yeah.

Speaker A (14:33):
That'S a shock to the system.
That's a shock to anybody's system.
I always say this to my paranormal ladies whodo investigations.
I have nothing but the utmost respect for youbecause it's really brave to do that because
let's be honest, and I hate to say this, butit's true.
Jails, asylums and stuff, women take more ofthe brunt of the activity.

(14:55):
Right.
Because.
And it's not only the men doing it, but youknow, there are women in, in these asylums.
I've spoken to paranormal investigators whohave said women have attacked them.

Speaker B (15:08):
Yeah.

Speaker A (15:08):
Or women, you know, And I, I just, I don't know, Abby.
It just blows my mind that you want tocontinue to do it.
Right.
Because that's something where you're having
those dreams.

Speaker B (15:18):
Right.

Speaker A (15:18):
And it's easy to say I'm out like that at that.
But you keep doing it.
The other thing and I, this is more nicer,
I feel, I guess is the children who were in.
There were children in jail.
People forget that.
I mean, there were people.
Children in asylums.
There were children in obviously hospitals.

Speaker B (15:37):
Yeah.

Speaker A (15:38):
Obviously a lot in jails.
They did not.
So they might have taken the pedophile and the
child and stuck them in the same cell because,well, back in the 1700s, 1800s, they didn't
know anybody.
There wasn't such a thing.
And like, hey, I got a 10 year old kid, a
pedophile and a murderer.

(15:59):
There's your room.
Have a good time.
And I, and I think.
Yeah, right.

Speaker B (16:05):
And I think you were put in prison in this country for being in debt.
So a lot of Bob in jail was debtors, prison aswell.
So. Yeah,
yeah, correct.
And.

Speaker A (16:15):
But one thing is those children, they see you and they think, she seems like a
nice lady.
You know, I'm going to try to communicate toher, have you ever had an experience with a
child's spirit and what happens?

Speaker B (16:31):
Yeah, lots of child spirits over the years.
I find that the hardest to cross over, to behonest with you.
Children's spirits,
I don't know whether they're scared of theother side or if there's a group of them and
they feel safe where they are.
They are.
They do seem to be the hardest to cross.
We're at this place in.
It used to be a haunted Devon exclusive.

(16:52):
Sadly, it's closed down and been and in the
process of being sold since.
COVID is a place called Salem Chapel in East
Budley.
And I believe it has links to Salem inAmerica, so hence.
Hence the name.
And one of the last witches in the UK wasactually.
Was actually hung outside and buried withinthe grounds of the chapel as well.

(17:12):
But there's a lot of children there.
A lot of children.
And there's this a particular pastor called.
I say pastor.
It was a dissenters church called.
Oh, Gordon Bennett.
My brain's gone now.
Samuel Leete.
There we go.

Speaker A (17:28):
Okay.

Speaker B (17:30):
If I forget him, he will come and haunt me.
Seriously, we don't want that.
No, no. Me and Samuel have a love hate
relationship.

Speaker A (17:37):
Okay.

Speaker B (17:38):
Yeah, I respect him.
He's a nasty piece of work.
He's the ruler of that church.
That's his domain.
But he was known to be a smuggler.
A lot of.
A lot of children kind of around the area atthe time.
And when he passed away,
him and his wife, the.
The locals actually dug them up and quartered

(17:59):
the bodies.
So popular, man,
you know.

Speaker A (18:02):
There we go.

Speaker B (18:03):
Popular.
He has a smuggler's ledger that's never been
found.
Apparently it's hidden in one of the passages
because there's crypts and passages and allsorts in the chapel.
But he dominates the children there.
If we can get past Samuel, we can talk to thechildren.
But the children there, they ring bells and itis literally you hear the ding, ding, ding,
ding, ding, ding going on in the church andyou hear the school bell going.

(18:27):
But yeah, when Samuel interjects, you getthis.
And we've recorded it a few times, this 180decibel, like, almost like arc is crap that
comes out of nowhere,
which sounds like an arc of electricity.
Now, I mean, I said I can send you the
recordings.
We've got the recordings from it.

Speaker A (18:42):
Yes, please.

Speaker B (18:42):
But me and me and we don't antagonize Samuel because, well, we don't
antagonize anyway.
We find it disrespectful.
But he.
He likes to pick on women, especially
vulnerable women who have been through a lot.
I. I won't have that.
So I'm like, you know, I will purposely say,
come, come and pick on me.
If you want to pick on someone, leave my team

(19:03):
alone,
you know, and have a go at me instead I canhandle it, you know, so he'll show up as a
shadow right in front of your face and makeyou go.
One night,
it was probably one of the last times we werethere.
I think we'd done a training day there and allthe members were outside.
The committee were just in the chapel andSamuel had been literally riding me all night.

(19:24):
He had been jumping out, he'd been breathingin my ear, I'd been having growls.
I just felt this presence on me all the time.
And even the gang were like, abs, you can'tsit still.
He goes, you are literally moving every fiveminutes and changing locations.
I said, yeah, I got Samuel on my bloody back.
That's why I was sat against this, this woodenpulpit.
And it's like one of the, you know, thesesquare, big wooden ones like you get maybe in

(19:46):
the Baptist church and stuff like that over inAmerica.
And I was leant back on this pulpit and I waslike, right, you come on then.
It's just, it's just a slot here.
If you're gonna have a go, then do something,
because I'm sick of all this in and out BSthat you're giving me.
Yeah, it was me, Sally and Kelly, we wereleant against the pulpit and the thing moved.
It literally jerked forward and we were like,okay,

(20:08):
all right.
I was like, okay, you've had your fun.
Thank you.

Speaker A (20:12):
Yep, we're good, we're good, we're good, we're good.

Speaker B (20:14):
Yeah, you've proved your point.
But no, I have great respect for Samuel
because it's his.
It's his place.
He rules that place.
It's his domain.
He'll never move on.
We have moved some of the children on in the
past and when he's been otherwise entertainedelsewhere.
But, yeah,
he keeps a tight rein.

(20:35):
We do miss that place.
It was run by the Historic Chapels Trust, butduring COVID they went under.
And.
No, it's the only Descenters chapel in the UKwith the school building next to it as well.
So it is a rare, rare thing and it's got somuch history to it and it's got Kath Hoyle who
runs it, or used to run it, and knows all thehistory for it.

(20:55):
She's a narrator and she's absolutely fabulousand I want to do some work with her and get
it.
Get her history and stories all down in book
form so we don't lose that local knowledgefrom her.
But it's a place we went to very, veryregularly and it's somewhere we're very fond
of.
But.

Speaker A (21:15):
Yeah.
My goodness. Oh, wow.
That. That's.
Oof. That would be a rough one.
Let me ask you this, one of the most, least
from my point of view, what I have heard, andcorrect me if I'm wrong, is the Borley
Rectory, is that still a famous case or isthat kind of disappeared through time?

Speaker B (21:35):
It's kind of disappeared through time Now.
Borley Rectory is a bit controversial.
Harry Price is a bit controversial.
I don't doubt that he was a good investigatorat his time, but unfortunately, to prove a
point, he got caught faking by having rocks inhis pocket.
Borley Rectory. And. And one of the wives aswell, of one of the ministers.
Now, my old treasurer, Yolanda, she was, shewas a Borley Rectory nut.

(21:57):
I mean, she actually owns part of thefireplace, a chunk of the fireplace, and she
could tell you all about that place.
But it moved into the church after it burntdown and they seemed to be getting stuff at
the church where these, these apparent nunsremains were buried.
So when the actual house burned down and noone knows why it caught fire.
Yeah, it's the.
The spirit seemed to move into the church.

(22:19):
And I remember the BBC actually doing a pieceof years ago and you could hear things going
on in the church, footsteps, voices, that sortof thing,
things being thrown.
But I think they did a radio piece back in.
Whether it was the 70s or 80s,
I couldn't tell you.
It was a while ago.
But Bawley Rectory,
it's not something that's.
That's really talked about much now in the

(22:40):
paranormal world.
I think it's kind of like fallen by the
wayside.
Things like 13th Drive and Enfield and places
like that have kind of like overtaken the mosthaunted house in the UK sort of thing.
But Holy Rectory, and we have one in Torquay,Castle Le Mer, which back in the 1800s was.
Is known as the UK's Amityville.

(23:02):
So there was a lot of poltergeist activity
going on there.
The house was abandoned.
Eventually it was torn down and more villas
were built in its place.
Castle A Mare in Torquay.
Yeah, it attracted the great and the good of
the time, but Torquay is a little bit of anoccultist hotspot.
Um, it's meant to be the most haunted town,according to Zoopla in the uk.

(23:26):
I mean,
you know, the local council like to admit tothis, but this is where Aleister Crowley
actually fell in love with, with the,
the craft and the occult.
And this is where he started his practice.
He was staying with a guy called LeightonBeulah Lord Leighton Beulah, higher up on
Warren Road.
The house is still there.

(23:47):
Loads of extensions to it now, but the houseis still there.
But this is where Crowley kind of fell in lovewith the craft.
And we've had Bowie, the Stones, all the restof it.
They used to come down here and do occultstuff.
And the Rolling Stones,
apparently.
So the story goes, wrote Sympathy for the
Devil while staying at the Grand Hotel inTorquay because it kind of looks like home and

(24:07):
Munster's house or the Addams Family mansion.
It really does.

Speaker A (24:10):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker B (24:11):
So Torquay is known for being a little bit of an occult hotspot.
A lot of UFO stuff happens over here and.
Yeah, so I'm living in the right town really.

Speaker A (24:22):
Yeah.

Speaker B (24:23):
Sounds haunted.
My first house that isn't haunted.
It's great.
So peaceful.

Speaker A (24:29):
Okay, well, we can make it haunted.
No, I'm just kidding.

Speaker B (24:31):
Yeah. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. They can stay outside.

Speaker A (24:34):
So going back here, I just, I love talking, like I said, love talk to my UK
people because of the famous cases.

Speaker B (24:41):
Yeah.

Speaker A (24:41):
Borley Rectory.
And you mentioned the Enfield Poltergeist.
What is your stand on that?Because that is another similar to the Borley
Rectory where it's kind of, I don't know.
Right.

Speaker B (24:53):
I think genuine stuff went on there.
I think the kid did play to it for attentionbecause they're kids and, you know, that's
what they're going to do.
They're getting attention.
They love it.
Especially with the family dynamic that was
going on.
You know, the father had gone.
One of the little boys was in a behavioralschool.
They were an impoverished family, so theyweren't exactly, exactly like middle class.

(25:14):
They were working class.
You know, you're going back to the 70s where,
you know, conditions weren't exactly like, youknow, what they are today, I think.
I mean, Janet's been scarred for life, blessher.
And she'll very, very, very rarely talk aboutit.
I mean, I read Guy's book this House isHaunted years ago.
I was, you know, looking to interview him atthe time and I tried to get hold of Janet and

(25:36):
she didn't want to know,
so she just wanted to leave it all behind.

Speaker A (25:40):
Yeah, sure.

Speaker B (25:41):
Which is fair enough.
At the end of the day, I think she's been
vilified and, and, and taken the Mick out ofin the press.
I mean, the UK mainstream media does treat thesupernatural as a bit Scooby Doo, a bit X
Files, so they don't really take it seriously.
It's kind of like woo, woo.
So I think she's had a lot of bad experiences

(26:02):
with the press and a lot of people making fun.
I believe something went down there.
Reading Guy Lyon Playfair's book and you know,the ess even though the SPR were like, oh no,
no, no. But you know,
they can only see one aspect of the kids, youknow, having a bit of a laugh and a joke.

(26:23):
They're getting all this attention, so ofcourse they're going to.
Is all the activity real?
I don't know.
I wasn't there, so I couldn't comment on what
was real and what was wrong.
But I believe something went down.
And whether it was a PK event,
psychokinesis from.
From the children, or whether it was an actual
haunting, I just don't know.

(26:44):
Demonic?
No. Warren's involved?No. They turned up and Guy showed them the
door.
Basically they were like, oh, make some money
off this.
And they were like, no.

Speaker A (26:54):
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker B (26:55):
And that's a good conjuring film, I guess.

Speaker A (26:58):
Yeah, yeah, right.
I mean the Warrens here in America is a love
hate relationship.
If you.
I'm gonna do a episode on eventually because
the husband, Mr. Warren, he.
All I can say is he's a scumbag.
He's not who you think he was.

(27:18):
And his wife, you know, I think she was alongfor the ride and got caught up in it and
started to just to be like, oh, hey,
we can start making.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, we can start.
Right, right.
We start making some money.
Not to say she didn't have abilities,
but I. The only credit I give the Warrens andyou know, is that they brought paranormal to

(27:39):
the forefront.
It made people think,
made people go,
maybe isn't.
Woo, woo.
Maybe there is some things going.
Going on and in America right now and might
come over to the UK or whoever is Annabelle,which I'm sure you're familiar with Annabelle,
the doll.

Speaker B (27:56):
Yes. That's had a bit of press lately, hasn't it?

Speaker A (28:01):
Yeah.

Speaker B (28:02):
Word.

Speaker A (28:03):
Yes. Yes. I mean,
and that's another thing that I've spoke toother paranormal investigators.
I mean, what is kind of your feeling on cursedobjects?
I mean this is a curse dial.

Speaker B (28:14):
Yeah.

Speaker A (28:15):
Do you believe in them or do you think some of it is just coming from the
energy around the person going into bit ofenergy.
We got the kitty coming in, right?

Speaker B (28:25):
Yeah, he's coming.
My little.
My little black cat.

Speaker A (28:28):
So do you think it's energy that's going into the doll, Abby, or do you really
think there is a curse?Dao.
Annabelle is cursed and can have that power tohurt people.

Speaker B (28:38):
I mean, Annabelle, with the Warren's involvement, I think, is a bit
suspect.
Robert, on the other hand.
I want to take his picture, put it that way.

Speaker A (28:47):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker B (28:48):
I ain't risking that one.

Speaker A (28:50):
Absolutely.

Speaker B (28:51):
Again,
I mean, you get into the realms of quantumphysics here, aren't you?
And all the rest of it and Tulpers.
And what you put attention into is what energy
you get.
So, you know, has there been an entity createdaround Annabelle because of everything?
And especially,
you know, since the movies, since the hype,since, like, you know, ghost adventures, since

(29:11):
the tour and all these things going on aroundit?
I mean, the poor chap that lost his liferecently,
you know, the investigator that passed away.
Yeah.

Speaker A (29:20):
Dan Rivera.

Speaker B (29:22):
You know, it's 48 hours haunted.
Is he from Netflix, I believe.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
And, you know, that's awful.
But then to have his death kind of, like,horrified through this doll.

Speaker A (29:33):
Yeah. Capitalized on.

Speaker B (29:35):
Yeah. It's a bit disrespectful to him and his family,
and I think it's a bit,
you know, hit and miss with that one.
Again, I've never been in the presence of
Annabelle, so I could not tell you if there'san energy there or not.

Speaker A (29:48):
Right. Yeah. And the controversy.
Controversy right now is a comedian, an
American comedian, and a paranormalinvestigator has bought the Warren's Museum.

Speaker B (30:00):
Yeah.

Speaker A (30:00):
And bought the, I believe, the conjuring house or whatever they've bought.

Speaker B (30:05):
And they're allowing Paranoid Conjuring House, because that was a bit of a
hot topic, isn't it?

Speaker A (30:09):
Yeah,
that's another one.
That's.
Yeah, that's.
I don't know.
Well, that went through a lot of differentthings.
And just really quickly, it's just the womanwho bought it, bought it for a ton of money.
She overspent for it, and then she was tryingto make money, so she was charging paranormal
investigators outrageous fees to come inthere,

(30:29):
and people were like, hey, it's not our faultthat you overpaid for this house, lady.
You can't.
You can't, like, take advantage of us because
we want to help you.
And she wasn't looking at it like that.
She was looking at, like, again,
capitalizing.

Speaker B (30:43):
Yeah.

Speaker A (30:43):
On the conjuring.
Capitalizing on the conjuring movies.
Captioning on the Warren's, you know,involvement.

Speaker B (30:51):
And she.
She outbid someone, didn't she?
She.
She.
Yeah, she was a bit sneaky with that.
But the.
The videos that.
What. I mean, Jason, how.
I mean, what.
What she's put them through I mean, ghost
hunters.
I mean, again, their rep has been.
Again, it's made for telly.
So again, the network want the activity,otherwise they drop the show.
So unfortunately, people have to perform andwhether they agree with it or not, it's the

(31:16):
nature of the beast.
It's. It's mainstream.
You know, if.
If a network picks up your show and you can'tguarantee paranormal activity, you just can't.
It just.

Speaker A (31:24):
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker B (31:24):
I don't agree with faking, but it's made for telling.
It's entertainment purposes only.

Speaker A (31:28):
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker B (31:30):
But what she's put them through and then all the people that have been there and
they've released the videos where she's comein and she's having a go at them and she's
saying, you're doing things you shouldn't bedoing.
Or she's kick them out halfway through afterthey've actually spent over the odds to
actually hire this place out.
And I believe her license was taken away, but
she still carried on trying to push theknights.

(31:52):
I mean, I think she's.
From looking at the case there, it's someonethat needs a little bit of help in life and
maybe that needs to be concentrated on morethan a haunted place because that can actually
do more damage if you.
If you need a little bit of emotional help.
So.

Speaker A (32:09):
Absolutely.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So there's a couple other cases that I. Thatin the UK that I'm kind of interested in.
Get your take on is the Black Monk ofPontefract.
You know, that's kind of interesting to mebecause people said it looks like a simple
building,
flat, whatever.
What do they call it?

(32:29):
Common houses.
What do you guys call it?
Council houses.
Thank you so much.

Speaker B (32:34):
Council house.

Speaker A (32:35):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
So what is your.
I mean, that got a lot of press, right.
And.
And still to this day, I guess you can go inthere and investigate.
Is that true or not?

Speaker B (32:46):
You can hire out 30, strive to investigate.
I haven't and I don't think I ever willbecause again, too much hype.
It would be like Bob in Jail is now what wecall an overfished venue.

Speaker A (33:00):
Sure.

Speaker B (33:00):
So people are going in all the time.
So if there is anything there, it's going tobe, you know, rest in peace, you know.
Is there anybody there?No. Bugger off.

Speaker A (33:09):
Right.

Speaker B (33:10):
Do you know.
Do you know what I mean?
Same questions every week.
No, I'm not a performing monkey.

Speaker A (33:15):
Yeah, yeah.
And yeah, yeah, I love that because we have a
place in the states, in state of Iowa calledthe Vlisca.
Axe murder house.

Speaker B (33:26):
Yes.

Speaker A (33:26):
Okay. And investigators have gone.
I've been there a couple times.
Not to investigate, but to check it out stuff.
Because I love the history.
But investigators who have been there havesaid the same thing.
You're saying it's like they want to be leftalone.
It's not that they do anything.
Like they.
They'll go in there.
Abby. And be like.
It feels dead.
Not to be a play on words, but.

(33:47):
Right.
It just.

Speaker B (33:47):
Yeah.

Speaker A (33:47):
Like, bugger off.
Right.
Like you said, I. I've had enough.
There's people in and out of this damn houseconstantly.
I'm not a performing monkey.
Like you said,
they're like people.
And people don't understand.
That is if you're a ghost and it's just overand over and over, and you're just like you
were a person at one time, can you leave?

Speaker B (34:08):
You get sick of it.
It's like, you know, being called by a call
center 24. 7.
It should go away.

Speaker A (34:14):
Yeah.

Speaker B (34:15):
No more cold calls.
Quite literally.
Um,
yeah.
I mean, you often find the most infamous
places are the most dead because they'reoverfished.
I mean, I know we go in and we investigate.
You know, it's not entertainment for haunted
Dev.
And it's not thrill seeking.
It's, again, history.
It's the knowledge.
It's the actual paranormal itself.
You know, is this place haunted?Can we debunk a lot of it?

(34:37):
You know, is.
Is there a lot going on that's natural that
people are putting down to hauntings,
but also as well, if there's any spirits therethat just want to move on,
that haven't been able to correct.
We. I mean, a lot of venues don't like.
But, you know, we kind of like, move on.
We help move them on if they want to.
So we're not going to keep them down forentertainment purposes only.

(34:57):
Or thrill seekers.

Speaker A (34:58):
Yeah.

Speaker B (34:59):
Because, you know, they're people and they've had lives, they've had trauma,
they've had sadness in their life, and forwhatever reason they chose to remain or been
trapped in a property,
and if we can help release them, then, yeah,we will.
Because they're not there for entertainment.

Speaker A (35:17):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely.
So let's switch gears a little bit.
One of the things, because you talk aboutUFOs,
is one of the most famous cases is theRendlesham Forest incident.
Is that correct?Am I pronouncing that right?

Speaker B (35:30):
Yeah.

Speaker A (35:32):
Now, that is fascinating to me because you have people,
military people,
who, like, why would they lie?
Why?You know, there's nothing to get out of this,
right?There's literally nothing.
I don't know your thoughts on that.

Speaker B (35:48):
Rendlesham again.
At the time, people didn't realize it was
storing Nucleus and nuclear munitions andstuff like that.
That was all secret.
So you find a lot of UFO activity happensaround.
Like this activity is still going on to thisday.
A friend of mine, Andy Decoats from Alienateuk, was actually in Rendlesham last night and
they had some activity go on.

Speaker A (36:09):
He.

Speaker B (36:10):
I put a photograph online where he's just got one spot of blood on his pillow.
He woke up with this morning.
He was like, that's weird.
I'm like, did you cut yourself, mate?
You know, cheating or whatever, or.
And he was like, no, no, no. I was thinking
we'll do a smeared on your pillow, surely.
So that was a bit odd.
Not putting it down to anything paranormal,but just odd.
But I interviewed a ex CID officer called JohnHanson a couple of months ago and hopefully

(36:34):
meeting up with him at the end of the month atthe 60th anniversary of the Warminster thing.
And he's been to Rendlesham a lot.
He's done books with Colonel Holt called the
Holt Perspective.
And the stuff that goes on there even to thisday, I mean, they get apples, you know, things
appearing and just dropping next to you in thewoods.
The lights up the dry are still there.

(36:55):
UFO sightings are still there.
People see figures in the woods.
People spotted figures in the woods lastnight.
So there's definitely still something going onat Rendlesham and it's somewhere I want to go
and investigate.
Personally, I.
But couldn't believe Andy was there lastnight.
You should have said.
Yeah,
but yeah, no, I think definitely somethinghappened at Rendlesham.

(37:17):
It wasn't the lighthouse, it wasn't Venusreflecting off cabbages and it was.
It wasn't swamp gas.
Swamp gas.
And it wasn't the other army soldiers, theAmericans or the Brits playing pranks on one
another because it happened to the RAF face acouple of weeks or a couple of nights before
there was.
There was activity going on.

(37:37):
So I think Rendlesham is.
Is one of those hot spots.
But also as well, John Hanson found out thatthere were tumuli, which are ancient standing
stones and ancient burial mounds actually inRendlesham Forest itself.
Oh, there goes Jack.

Speaker A (37:52):
That's just a cat, folks.
Not a cryptid or a monster.
It's just fabulous cat.

Speaker B (37:58):
The Beast of Torquay,
or Lord Darkness, as he prefers.
But yeah,
there's ancient sites there and apparentlythere Was this mound close to the, the size of
Silbury Hill, which has been since erodedthrough, you know, forestry, plowing, farming,
that sort of thing.
But it's, it's funny how these, these UFO andspiritual sightings and this activity goes on

(38:22):
around these ancient landscapes such asWiltshire, such as, you know,
Rendlesham and, and loads of places across theworld.
I mean, you guys have it as well, you know, Imean, you guys have got some really ancient,
ancient monuments and ancient stuff thathasn't been quite dated properly.
But, you know,
it's not been dated properly in this countryeither.

Speaker A (38:43):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
And that's really interesting.
And one of the biggest things between UFOcases in the uk, international,
I should say, in general in America, like forexample,
we have obviously Area 51,
we have the Roswell incident,

(39:03):
we have.
I did a story on the Dolce base.
Dolce base is fascinating if you could everget a chance to look at this.
It's in New Mexico, is a real base.
This isn't made up.
I don't know how much you've heard about it,
but on what fascinated me is the governmenthas come out and basically say, yeah, there's
things going on there and it's just reallyweird.

(39:24):
But my favorite part of it, there's thislevel, I believe it's area level seven, which
they call the nightmare level.
It's where they take hybrid alien humanhybrids,
alien human animal hybrids and supposedlybelieve what you want to believe.
People who have worked there have said if anyof those things get out, it will kill hundreds

(39:47):
of people.
But it's like these monsters they've made.
Yeah, and these and these like taking aliensand.
And.
Yeah, right, right.
And then obviously one of the biggest things
that they've done numerous research on that Idon't know if you're familiar with, is the
skinwalker rant.

Speaker B (40:05):
I'd love to go there.
I mean, seriously, I would give my.
Another tuf.
Last one this week.
I'll give another one.

Speaker A (40:16):
Right.
And, and that has been over and over and over
and over where they have found things.
But here's the thing that I think is really
interesting.
Maybe it's different where you live, but the
military, you know, has come out and showedthat the Tic Tac UFO and show, you know,
fighter pilots, hey, you know, we got this,you know, film or video, whatever you want to

(40:37):
say.
And the collective American public went, yeah,like nobody really cared, but people like us
cared.
But in general, the general public went,that's nice.

Speaker B (40:49):
Well, they released it during a Global pandemic.
I mean, say what you will about that.
They released it in a global pandemic.
So it was case of when do you disclose thatyou know there's aliens on this planet?
I know when everyone's distracted and thinkingabout something else,
like cost of living,
World War 3, global pandemic.
Aliens are real.
All right, cool. Next. What's.

(41:11):
What's on?
I didn't.
Did I have that on my, on my year bingo card?

Speaker A (41:15):
Yeah, yeah.
Let me look at my phone.
Yeah, there it is.
Click.
Bingo.

Speaker B (41:20):
I'd love to go to Skinwalker, though.
We have the same sort of thing here inWiltshire and around here in the area.

Speaker A (41:25):
Okay, and what's that?

Speaker B (41:27):
Wiltshire is,
you know, a Stonehenge is Avery stone circle,
and that place is a major, major hotspot.
And that's where the, like the crop circle
phenomena kind of like started off in the UKback in the 90s.
Well, I've had some pretty weird experiencesout there.
And that kind of like started off noticing theUFO stuff with me.

(41:50):
And I didn't know there was a term for it, youknow, being a paranormal investigator and you,
you know, which you follow us.
And I've just recently found out that there's.
There's a term for what's been happening to me
for the past,
since 2012, which is a C5.
Apparently I was like, okay, what's that?
C5?
Yeah, apparently a C5 is some.

(42:10):
Someone that can interact with UFOs and if you
meditate and you get in the right frequency,you can actually get them to appear.
So this kind of started around 2012.
Me and my co host at the time, who sinceretired, Martin Hicks.
He is one of the people that run the PlymouthUFO Research Group, which is, I believe, the

(42:31):
oldest UFO group within the uk.
I mean, it's.
It's pretty much defunct now.
There's only two members and they hold thearchive.
But I went out with, with Martin and this iswhen we first started doing the show.
And it's not crop circles.
UFOs wasn't really something I really put too
much stock to experience.
I'd had a few sightings of UFOs and that andjust thought cool, you know, lights of the

(42:54):
sky.
But I was primarily focused on the spiritual
ghosts, hauntings, histories, that sort ofthing.
And we went out to Wiltshire in 2012 and Iwas.
My mind was blown away for a start, with allthe ancient sites, the energy.
It was during a full moon, I think it was the4th of August, the Olympics were going on in
the UK at the same time.

(43:19):
The first night we went to this.
This pub,
it's called the Red lion and it actually sitsin the village of Avery, which surrounded by
the largest stone circle in Europe.
And the actual village sits inside this stonecircle.
It surrounds it in this henge.
And we went back to the tent because we werecamping above a place called Eastfield, where

(43:42):
you've had a lot of UFOs, you've had a lot ofcrop circles and stuff like that happen.
And as we were leaving the pub at the time,
there was these group of people all in robesand cloaks, huddled around what's known as the
Devil stone.
And they were doing rituals and stuff like
that.
We found corn dollies with.
With red thread around them, which again isritualistic place there a stone circle and

(44:05):
also a place called Silbury Hill.
And on the.
The Saturday there was a crop circle justoutside,
aged with stone circle.
And we called it the Clock.
And you know, this is my first time ever in acrop circle.
It was like, wow, man.
And we were taking all sorts of readings.
I had my trifield out, I had my dowsing rods

(44:26):
and I was like trying to get some scientificmeasurements here.
Not just.
Not just for the energies for the land and the
crop circle itself, but people have beencoming in and meditating and trying to like
measure the energy of that and how does thataffect it?
And does will that throw off the readings andstuff like that?
Does that generate activity?
And Martin was taking photos.

(44:46):
He had his step ladder, he had his pole.
This is before the days of drones were widelyavailable and stuff like that.
So you kind of had to go old stuff.
I kind of like.
I kind of like wandered off by myself.
It was getting dark and I sat in one of these
little circles because there was lots of themwithin this massive complex.
And I just did some meditating and I actuallydid a bit healing into the ground.

(45:09):
And I just said, like, you know, I'm givingback.
And I said, I'm opening up.
If there's anything I need to know, I'mwilling.
I'm open, I'm here, I'm present.
You know, show me, teach me with that.
I heard this,
something treading on the corn behind me.
So I turn around, whip my head around,
thinking it's Martin.
And I call him and he's 100 yards away because

(45:30):
this thing was on the other side of thecircle.
And I was like, okay, then, you know, so Ikind of like wandered back.
And he said he saw an orb of light as I Wascoming in my direction as I was wandering
back.

Speaker A (45:41):
Yeah.

Speaker B (45:42):
Anyway, we're just sitting there, We've got a blanket.
We're looking up at the stars.
Falafy.
I'll get me words out today.

Speaker A (45:50):
Gotcha.

Speaker B (45:52):
And we both feel this changing energy and it feels uncomfortable.
It doesn't feel nasty, it just feels a bitheavy.
And we both look up and there is this sevenfoot,
hooded, dark, solid figure just at the edge ofthe crop circle watching us.
And we're like, okay,
time to go.

Speaker A (46:10):
Yeah.

Speaker B (46:11):
So we kind of.
We felt a little bit unwelcome.
It felt like, okay, time to move on.
So we were like, okay, we'll get out yourspace.
We'll respect it.
Time to move on.
So we did.
And apparently these things are guardians.
This thing followed me all night.
This, this, this, this.
Yeah, he became your mate.
He became your mate.
But these, I mean, you know, you have crop
circle hoaxes that actually say they arechased out of SHIELD by these, these big

(46:32):
hooded things.
So to me, they're guardians of the land, thisancient place also as well, the military.
The military are told, I mean, you get thewhite beings and you get the dark beings.
Interacted with both, Although I didn'trealize one was actual being at the time, I
thought it was person.
This was back in 2018, a few years later,
again with a friend of mine, a photographer.
So, you know, there was witnesses to it.

(46:54):
So the military are actually, when they're onmaneuvers on the planes, told not to interact
with these things.
They're the guardians.
They're there.
Just don't interact with them, Ignore them.
And this is coming from the military, youknow,
and we.
Martin goes into the pub because he asks them
to fill up a flask of water,
hot water, so we can like make cups of teathroughout the night, doing all night watch.
And with that, a torrent of police cars gorushing past us and head up the road to

(47:20):
Swindon.
So Martin was like, come on then, let's get inthe car and go have a look.
So we went have a look and then we went up toa place called Hack Fen Hill.
Hack Fen Hill.
And it's, it's on the, on the ancientRidgeway.
And it's got these like three coppice of likelittle forests.
And it heads to a place called Barbary Castle,which is a very, very ancient hill fort.

(47:45):
And you got a lot of stuff up there.
So we're sat up there in this, in this carpark next to this place called Hackburn Hill,
and we're by this, this coppice of trees,
which we kindly refer to as the coppice ofdoom.
Since.
And we're outside and we're sitting, we cansee these like orbs of light in the sky,

(48:06):
do you know what I mean?You know, really getting some activity.
And then we notice some noise coming from thecoppice of trees.
And we turn around and there's these orbs oflight literally flying in and out the trees
and then these beams of light.
And we've caught some of this on camera.
Beams of light going literally straight up
into the sky.

(48:27):
Like someone's got a, like, you know, a
spotlight in there at a concert.
So you'd need all the rigs, the cables and allthe rest of it.
There's none of that there.
Yeah, with that,
this blue van turns up.
This, this guy in this blue van and thistransit and he just sits in the car park and
he's just staring at me and Martin, I meanhe's, he's like the cigarette smoking guy off

(48:48):
the X Files.
He's literally chain smoking.
There's all this stuff going on right next tous, like lighting up like Blackpool
illumination.
Not even looking at that.
He's fixed on us.
Okay, so we're just kind of ignoring him.
And I'm like, I want to go, I want to go and
check this out.
I'm like full hardy, like, yeah, what is this?And Martin's like, no, no abs, no stay back.

(49:09):
And I'm like, oh, no, sort this.
I'm gonna go and check it out.
What is it?You know, is someone having a rave?
Is it like, you know, whatever, you know,because there's a lot of literal stuff going
on.
It's like, what's going on in this, in these
woods?
So I start walking up the road, like thislittle, little trackway walking up the road
and with that, this bright ball of light, itgotta be the size of a basketball, comes

(49:31):
floating down this, this trackway at us atspeed.
I kind of like stop in my tracks and I'm like,Martin grabs me, pulls me back and as if,
like.
And we get into the car as if to say, no, no,
that's enough, we're going now, right?
With that, I look in the rearview mirror andthe whole thing is lit up like Christmas.
I mean, there's this big massive beam of lightliterally just coming from the center of these

(49:56):
woods and all these lights flying around.
And I've caught this on camera in the rearview mirror.
And we get out the car and I'm like, martin,Martin, look at the lights, look at the
lights, look at the lights.
And we're both sitting there like, what theactual.
And with that, this minivan literally speedsinto the car park,
nearly runs us over and speeds up thistrackway to where all these lights are going

(50:20):
on, and then just disappears into the woods.
It just disappeared.
With that, we were like, okay, now it's timeto go.
And we got into the car and then we had thesepeople following us.
And I mean, they were right riding us,flashing their lights right at the back end of
the car.
And we were like, what the frick is going onhere?
What have we stumbled into?What the hell is going on?

(50:42):
Have we stumbled into some sort of like,Rockefeller ritual?
Cause they own most of the land around there.
Rockefeller ritual or something like that.
What the hell?
So we.
Martin didn't indicate.
Well, no, he indicated left and then like,
took a sharp right and then went back to like,towards Avril, which was kind of like, lose
them.
And we parked up near Sealbury Hill opposite

(51:04):
it with this bus station.
Martin, bless him, he was sick because justwhat the hell, you know.
And there was helicopters everywhere, therewas police everywhere.
So he took us up to a place called WestOverton again, where every time we go over
this hill, something happened.
The year after, when we went up to the hill,something hit back of the car like a branch
fell on it.
We got out of the car, there was nothing
there, but we both felt it.

(51:26):
We got to the top of West Overton Hill and itwas a place called the Sanctuary.
Now, it used to have standing stones there,but they planted these little trees there.
I think they're trying to, like, keep it awayfrom people.
And we're looking down over what I didn't knowwas a stone called the Adam and Eve stone down
on the valley going apart the Age threecomplex.
And it's part of the stone road that goes intothe Asia Stone circle.

(51:48):
And again this beam of light goes up into thesky again and we're like, what the hell is
going on?
And at this time, there are helicoptersaround.
And I've just like, I've had enough.
I can't do this anymore.
Yeah, enough.
And with that, there's this voice and we can
hear someone walking up the hill.
And this is like, you know, two o' clock in
the morning.

(52:08):
There's no one else about.
We're the only ones stupid enough to be out at
this time, you know.

Speaker A (52:14):
Right, right, right.

Speaker B (52:15):
And. And I'm like.
And apparently it's called the Invisible
Walker.
It's A known phenomena up this hill.
I didn't know that at the time.
Anyway, we get in the car, I'm smoking at the
time.
So I'm there frantically rolling a cigarette.
Cause I'm like,
what the hell's going on?

Speaker A (52:28):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker B (52:29):
Martin is driving and all of a sudden he braked suddenly.
I pushed forward and hit my, like, put my handon the dash.
And I was like, what the bloody hell is that?
He said something flew at the window.
He said this face just came at me and flew at
the window.
And I just stopped with that.
This mist and fog just descended all overWiltshire.
And now we're camping on top of, like, youknow, one of the highest points of Wiltshire,

(52:52):
above this field, which gets loads of alienand UFO activity.
And he did stay in the tent with me because hewas sleeping in the car.
I was sleeping in the tent, being a gentleman,of course, but he did stay in the tent with me
that night because it was just madness.
And I just didn't really want to be on my ownafter all of that.

Speaker A (53:10):
I hear you.
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker B (53:12):
Ever since.
I mean, the year after was crazier.
A year after was great.
That went on for six hours.
But ever since then,
I see regular lights in the sky.
I see the white orbs.
Not all the time.
Sometimes it'll go months, six months, and
that stuff like that.
And I won't.
And then there'll be a spate of them.
But I don't know if I'm just noticing it more

(53:34):
now, but when I meditate and call in theactivity,
it generally does appear so.
And I didn't realize there was a name for it.
And I always thought, I'm going mad, you know,this is just ridiculous.
Like bloody UFOs.
What you on about, you duck gal?

(53:54):
It wasn't until I was talking to John Hansonabout it and he said, oh, yeah, that C.
And that's when Close. Close Encounter five.
And I'd heard of one, two and three,
obviously. Three with Stephen King.

Speaker A (54:08):
Yeah.

Speaker B (54:09):
But I'd never heard of ce.
But ever since then, ever since I originallyconnected that night.
And be careful what you wish for in theparanormal world.
Yeah, I'm open.

Speaker A (54:18):
Yeah.

Speaker B (54:19):
Teach me what you.

Speaker A (54:21):
Yeah, let's try this.
See how this works out.
Yeah.

Speaker B (54:24):
So I get.
I get the lights in the sky and you see them
quite often.
It's like people have seen it.
I've seen a ufo, I've seen a ufo and I'm like,I knew.

Speaker A (54:33):
Yeah. Yeah. And that's interesting.
So one of the questions I want to know.
I ask everybody regarding UFOs and aliens orextraterrestrials, however you want to say,
what do you think they want?
Do you think they're here to help us or youthink they're here to harm us?
I've gotten both.
Different people telling me, who haven't

(54:53):
interviewed, said they're here to help us.
To say, like, you are screwing up the planet.
You better do something about it or it's over.
And I've gotten people who have been abducted,
who have been hurt by aliens, and to saythey're here to hurt us.
They are here to find our weakness and takeover.

Speaker B (55:13):
I.

Speaker A (55:14):
So where do you stand?

Speaker B (55:15):
I've never had a negative experience.
I mean, my hair.
I did have a health decline after that
experience in 20s, and apparently that's quitecommon.
My health declined quite rapidly afterwards,but I don't.
The experiences I've had have never beennegative.
I think maybe there's more than one kind.
So you.
You've got the ones that experiment and

(55:37):
abduct.
That's not an experience I've ever had.
I've never, never had an abduction experience.
I've never missed time or anything like that.
But the things that I get seem to bebenevolent rather than malevolent.
It doesn't feel threatening.
You kind of get like a.
It's almost comforting.
So I've had them show up at times when I'vebeen going through stuff and it's like, that's

(56:00):
normally when you get a space of them and it'sjust like, as if to say, like, oh, you're all
right, love.
Carry on,
you know,
nice.
The cosmic wing.
You're in the, you know, you're all right.
Carry on.
Yeah, but, yeah, I think they've always beenhere.
I think they've been here longer than us.
I mean, maybe they are responsible for us.
I mean,
there's genetics that they can't explain withus.

Speaker A (56:21):
Sure.

Speaker B (56:22):
But I think it's also an interdimensional thing as well.
I don't think we're quite on their frequency.
So maybe they're here, but we just don't know.
I mean, our band frequency, visible light, and
what we sense is like about that big.

Speaker A (56:35):
Yeah.

Speaker B (56:37):
Yeah. So who knows? I. I mean, I don't know.
All I know is I see lights in the skies.

Speaker A (56:44):
Yeah. Wow, that's interesting.
I love that.
I love that story.
That's so fascinating.
And there's so many stories like that.
I think too, that people are, Are not willing
to tell or want to tell.
Whatever you want to say because unfortunatelythere's a stigmatism to it, like.
Oh yeah, yeah, right, okay.
I think that's slowly going away, at leasthere in the United States.

(57:07):
But I do know in the UK and Australia fromtalking to,
you know, people who live there like yourself,there's kind of like,
kind of woo, woo like you said.

Speaker B (57:17):
I experienced it, that and 2013,
I've not had two years like that.
That was just mental.
But I was there, there was witnesses there andeven I struggled to leave it still.
I mean I was literally.
I mean we did a show a week later and Martin
had to take over for me because I was stilljust not with it.

(57:38):
I was just totally in a daze and just like,
sure, you know, I don't blame you.
And if you go back, if you go back and listen
to the 2012 Wiltshire show on lifting the veilon Mixcloud.
Well, yeah, I'm just like.

Speaker A (57:53):
Yeah, of course, who wouldn't be? So let's talk as we wrap up here, let's talk
about Haunted Devin and your radio show.

Speaker B (58:05):
Yeah, sure.

Speaker A (58:07):
Tell me about, you know, a little bit more about that like what do you have
coming up or what episodes are you especiallyproud of that you, that you've done that
you've been like, hey, check this out becauseI'd love to check out those episodes.

Speaker B (58:22):
There's a few, I mean there's the, the back catalogue from.
Because I took a break and I went and workedfor the dark side for a bit.
I worked for the BBC for a bit so I couldn't.
I know, I know I went to the dark side for abit and worked for Radio Devon for a few years
so I couldn't carry on then I was like, wasn'tpermitted to.
But yeah, the new ones I've just intervieweddid Heidi Hollis, John Hanson,

(58:44):
XCID who's got the, the biggest personal UFOarchive and, and books that, you know, 22
books that he's written on the subject.
All police, military, you know, stuff like
that.
People, what people witness.
Fascinating.
So yeah, definitely go and check him out.
Haunted Devon. Well, Haunted Devon's beengoing around since 2005.

(59:08):
We're a non profit so we're a club.
So we do it for the passion.
We don't do it for the money,
don't do it for fame.
And yeah, we're a team of like minded people.
We like to investigate healthy balance ofspiritual and scientific.
If we can debunk something, you know we willand can and do.
But much to sometimes the venues Discreet.

(59:28):
And it's just like, oh, keep haunted as well.
But, yeah, haunted.
Devon's been going around a while.
It's run by a committee of volunteers.
Sally, my secretary, she does all the reports,
EVP work, and we go through them together.
Kelly's my treasurer, Ben does the webmaster,Mary's my tech.
And Mary and Eileen are the newest members ofthe committee and she does my venues as well.

(59:50):
So we kind of all work as a group.
There's not kind of like one person in charge.
It's a bit of a democracy.
Yeah. And we do it for the members and, yeah,we investigate once a month.
We keep costs as low as physically possible,
so only as much as the venue charges.
We do a lot of reports as well that you canfind on the website that are interactive so

(01:00:13):
you can listen to the EVPs as you're readingalong.
I mean, you've seen the reports are extensive.
Sally.
Sally dives deep, especially with the historyafter the fact.

Speaker A (01:00:22):
Yes.

Speaker B (01:00:23):
Those are the ones that are venues that are actually open to the public.
There's a lot of stuff that we can't say anddo because those reports are restricted for
the members.
They're not open to the public because peopledon't want to know the haunted or, you know,
the wedding venues or schools and stuff likethat, so.

(01:00:43):
And we've had to sign a few NDAs in the pastwhen we've investigated, but, you know, the
report's there, the evidence is there,
it's just that we cannot release that to thepublic.
So that is for our private archives.
But, yeah, the National Trust, you know, we'vebeen called into.
A couple of years ago now, back in 20, 2016,we were called into a place called the Dunster

(01:01:03):
Castle in Minehead.
It's kind of like on the border between Devon
and Somerset.
And they wanted a report for the Halloweenghost tours, so they wanted to know what was
going on.
So we went in and we did.
We did a report for them.
135 pages.
It took all summer.
It took all summer, that one.

Speaker A (01:01:22):
Yeah.

Speaker B (01:01:23):
But we got some great evidence.
We think we've named, identified the Gray
Lady.
We caught a picture of what we thought was a
ghost.
We. I mean, this thing could have gone
national papers.
It was.
It even looked like the ancestral owner.
It really did.

Speaker A (01:01:38):
Wow.

Speaker B (01:01:39):
It wasn't.
It was a bit of pareidolia on a reflection on
the Perspex.
That was because there was a secret passage.
So they put Perspex on the.
On the wallpaper.
People used to put their hand There and look
down this secret passage.
But this thing just looked so much like Thomas
Luttrell.
It really did.
It wasn't.
It was.
It was Christina, one of.

(01:02:02):
One of my members, Sally's daughter.
And we were there on the recce, but, you know,
Haunted Devon.
We weren't just going to take that as it's a
ghost.
So we came in with a lighting rig and tried torecreate the lighting because it was midday.
Obviously we were going to go back andinvestigate overnight, get all the lighting
conditions right so we could recreate thisimage.
To think like, you know, this.
This can't be.

(01:02:22):
It's too good to be true.
And it turned out to be a reflection, butokay.

Speaker A (01:02:29):
It's okay.

Speaker B (01:02:30):
Oh, it's always good.
You've got to be most skeptical of your own
evidence because if you can rule out all themundane, if you can rule out all the
environmental, and then you're left withsomething you can't explain,
then that's interesting.
That. That's what I like.

Speaker A (01:02:44):
Yeah, absolutely.
Absolutely.
So, Abby, I could talk to you for hours and,you know, you're.
You're amazing.
I'd love to have you back on the show because
we didn't get to something that all my YouTubeUK people.
I love to ask about.
Maybe you were a little too young, but the
famous.
The famous TV show that UK people believe to

(01:03:07):
be true Ghost.

Speaker B (01:03:09):
Why? My. What?
Yes, I remember it.
I watched it.
I remember being freaked out as a kid.

Speaker A (01:03:16):
Yes.

Speaker B (01:03:17):
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker A (01:03:18):
You know what's what? That's a whole different episode.
I had a couple people on,
from the ghost story guys to Liam,
Spooky Shed podcast.
I had him on to.
We talked a little bit about it, but they alsohad Chris from Strange States.
I think he's more in Ireland.

Speaker B (01:03:38):
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker A (01:03:38):
Uk.
Anyway,
he.
Well, like I said, I'll have you back on.
We'll talk more about it.
But just in general, I. I thought it wasreally fascinating that the fact, like he was.
Said he was a teenager too, and he missed thelittle blurb at the beginning that said, this
is.

Speaker B (01:03:54):
This is for entertainment.

Speaker A (01:03:55):
Yeah, this is for entertainment only purposes, which most people did.
And I couldn't imagine if I'm a kid and you.
That pops up and you didn't see that little
warning and you're like, you know, this is the80s.
Or was it 80s or nine.
No, 80s.
Correct.

Speaker B (01:04:14):
Late 80s.
Early.

Speaker A (01:04:16):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
And that they had.
Yeah. And they had credible people.
Right?They had, you know, very credible people.
Kind of like we'd have credible anchors or, ornewspaper reporters doing.
It wasn't actors person, they were actorsobviously in there.
But the people reporting it were like that.

Speaker B (01:04:38):
Yeah, they, they were your news anchors, they were your staple Saturday night
live entertainment sort of thing.
They were your, you know.

Speaker A (01:04:45):
Yeah.

Speaker B (01:04:46):
Morning breakfast show.
Newscat.
Yeah.
So yeah, it was.
And it's.
It was kind of like War of the Worlds on the
radio.
George Orwell.
It kind of had that kind of effect.
People did kind of get a little bit of masshysteria from it because people believed it.
And you know, the phone calls it to the B.
I don't know if Ofcom was around in thosedays.
It might have been probably knowing the redtape here, probably.

(01:05:09):
But yeah, it was just a massive thing and itgot banned and I think you can just about find
it on YouTube if you're lucky.

Speaker A (01:05:17):
Correct.
Yes.

Speaker B (01:05:18):
But it was banned from the uk.
They didn't air it again, so.
And they didn't do anything like it againuntil Living TV came up with Most Haunted.
A Vet Fielding.
Now I remember Vet Fielding from a programcalled Blue Peter when I was younger.
You know, this used to be like after schoolshow on the BBC where they cover a lot of

(01:05:40):
topics and they make things out of sticky backplastic.
And your UK viewers?Well, yeah,
Tracy island and all the rest from Birds.
But yeah, she.
This is how I remember Yvette Fielding as akid and then she started obviously Most
Haunted on Living tv and one of my friendsactually used to work on it.
Good friend of mine was one of the camera guyson that.

(01:06:04):
Yeah, they started out again with brilliantintentions and they,
they sparked the modern day ghostinvestigation movement and all the, all the,
the programs since then.
So like you know, Taps and Ghost Adventurers
and you know, all the ones that have gone onsince.
I mean in the uk we don't really have anyanymore apart from Most Haunted, I guess or

(01:06:27):
Help.
My house is haunted.
It's.
Yeah, it's again,
another one that's had a lot of controversyaround it again.
30 East Drive.
Getting pulled up the stairs with a rope and
things like that.
I think they started off with good intentionsbut I think again networks pressure.

Speaker A (01:06:45):
Yeah.

Speaker B (01:06:46):
Kind of like, you know, integrity goes out the window, doesn't it?
A bit.
So yeah, it's a shame.

Speaker A (01:06:51):
That's a shame.
Yeah.

Speaker B (01:06:53):
Thing with faking, I've got a.
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker A (01:06:56):
It ruins it for everybody in my opinion.
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker B (01:07:00):
I mean there's misidentification but you know.

Speaker A (01:07:02):
Yeah, yeah, I get, yeah, I get.
So Abby, what do you have Coming up for my
spooky friends as they can check you out.
Like where can they find you and, and what do
you got coming up?

Speaker B (01:07:12):
You can find me at the minute on MixCloud at Ghostfinder General, Lifting the
Veil where you can check out the newer showsand also some of my archive.
I've interviewed some amazing people over theyears.
Some great American guests, Andrea Perron andyou know, Lucy Pringle and you know some crop
circle stuff, Hutton Pulitzer and David Ickeand things like that going into the realms of

(01:07:35):
conspiracy and whatnot.
So yeah,
lots of, lots of diverse topics.
And the more recent shows, you know, I had
rpg, Ryan Golan Blesky on with, with Gib,Bigfoot and little Daniel Barnett and John
Hansen, obviously Heidi and gotta get you onmy dear and, and find out.

Speaker A (01:07:54):
Yes please.

Speaker B (01:07:55):
American Hauntings.
I mean I love the American hauntings.
I'd love to come over and investigate America.
Your guys energy and activity just seems to be
so much more on the surface than it is inEngland.
It really does.

Speaker A (01:08:07):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker B (01:08:09):
But yeah, I mean check out the Haunted Devon website and yeah, if you're in
the UK and you want to come and investigatewith us.
Yeah, come let us know.
We're a non profit group so we do it for the
passion, the history and also as well to keepsome of these old buildings alive as well
because it costs so much to,
to maintain and you know some of thesebusinesses like foundations and museums and

(01:08:34):
stuff like that.
So we, we try and help those out as well andlike keep them going.
Yeah. And people that are trying to restorethe old buildings.

Speaker A (01:08:43):
Yeah, absolutely, absolutely.
And you know I will have all your links to all
your sites and where you can check out, youknow and like I said anytime you, you can
support,
you know, Abby and her group, Haunted Devinand her organization,
please give whether it's your time, whetherit's your money, whether it's, hey, you just

(01:09:06):
say let's stop tearing down these greathistorical buildings for building whatever,
a new restaurant or whatever, you know, I getit, progress.
I understand people, we gotta make profit, wegotta get jobs.
I get it.
But at the end of the day you're going to
regret.
You know, that's why I always say to people

(01:09:27):
you're going to what happened to our history?
Well it's gone now.
You know, that happens.

Speaker B (01:09:32):
We've got one at the minute that's.
Well we've got a few that's under threat but
there's one called the Real Cinema and it usedto be the old ABC and all the rest of it, it's
built on a Napoleonic graveyard.
So there's that.
There's a lot of stuff going on there.
There's an actress called Emily who took herown life.
She.
She haunts the place and there's a lot going

(01:09:53):
on there.
There's a lot of stuff from the wall.
Cause I say Plymouth got heavily blicked in
the wall.
The.
The theater didn't get hit itself, but the oneacross the road did and everyone rushed in to
there.
So you've got a lot of residual from there.
But it is one of the last art decos of its
time and it's going to be raised for eitherstudent accommodation or a car park or

(01:10:14):
something.
But there is a group out there called Save theReal and you know, it's one of those buildings
we are hoping to.
To try and keep for prosperity.
I mean, you know, make it.
Make it a concert venue.
You know, make it something.
But, you know, tear it down.
Don't tear it down.

Speaker A (01:10:31):
Yeah, absolutely.
So, again, thank you, Abby.
Again, I truly appreciate you.
You're an amazing person with.
With great stories a lot and I love to haveyou on again.
I know, I know.
That's why I got to have you on again.
And you know, if we ever can figure out that Icould be on your show, I would love to.
We could figure that out, you know, andeverything.

(01:10:51):
But again, thank you again so much.
I truly appreciate it.

Speaker B (01:10:56):
It's been a pleasure.

Speaker A (01:10:57):
And you know, keep up what you're doing.
We totally need it in today's world.

Speaker B (01:11:01):
Yeah.

Speaker A (01:11:02):
To. To bring history to the forefront and also educate people about the
paranormal.
That's extremely important and that should
never be lost.
So great.
Well, thank you again, Abby.
And remember,
stay spooky.

Speaker B (01:11:16):
Love it.

Speaker A (01:11:18):
Bye, Abby. Thank you so much.
Love it.
Bye.
Bye, guys.