Lizzie Borden House Paranormal Investiagation: Guest Inexspirit paranormal investigators

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Jackie, Renee, and Nick from ExspiravitParanormal discussed their creepy investigations in the Lizzie Borden House, Gettysburg, and other creepy places. 

 

Episode Transcript

Speaker A (00:12):
Hello, my spooky friends.
This is John, your host of Dairyland Frights,
a paranormal podcast that covers everythingspooky, creepy, and mysterious in the midwest.
And today, again, some of my favorite peopleare paranormal investigators.
I have ex spirit.

(00:41):
Is that.
I told you I was a mush mouse.
Okay, so can you guys introduce yourself if
you want to.
If you want to start, whoever.
And introduce yourself, that would be great tomy spooky audience.

Speaker B (00:57):
All right.
I'm Jackie.
We all met in 2020, the year the world shutdown and formed our group experiment
paranormal, which is Latin for ghost.

Speaker C (01:09):
I'm Nick. I met Jackie and Renee on a tour at Pennhurst.
Actually, I was a former tour guide andparanormal investigator for them, and they
ended up in my group.
And here we are.

Speaker D (01:21):
And my name is Renee.
I've known Jackie because our kids grow up
together, and that's how we met.
Nick.

Speaker A (01:29):
That's awesome.
I love when a group comes together over a
terrible circumstance.
I guess you know what I'm saying?
I mean, that was not a great year.
Like, that's the dumpster fire year, right?
Everybody's like, that file under life sucks.

Speaker B (01:46):
Yeah.

Speaker A (01:47):
So tell me about this.
I'm going to get right into it, whoever wants
to start.
Jackie, if you want to start, that's fine.
What interested you in the paranormal?And my second question really quick.
Did you have a paranormal experience when youwere younger that maybe affected you to bring

(02:07):
you into the paranormal and made you kind ofwant to find out more?

Speaker B (02:11):
Well, for me, I'm just a curious person in general.

Speaker D (02:15):
I've always been curious.

Speaker B (02:16):
It's funny, my son is seven and a half.
Half.
And he's super curious, just like me.
So I guess it runs in the jeans.
But I always was just so curious.
Watched a lot of the shows, and I guess, like,around 2019, 2020.
During COVID I really got into the shows, andI was like, I really want to experience this.
I want to see for myself if what I'm seeing ontv is real.

(02:38):
And we can.
We're going to probably talk about this and
explore this.
But it's very easy to watch things and be
like, that can't be real.
So I always challenge people, go try it
yourself and see for yourself what's real andwhat.
So my first investigation was a publicinvestigation at Gettysburg in September 2020.
And that's when I got the bug.
And then I came back and I told Renee about it

(03:01):
at one of our playdates, and she's like, girl,sign me up.
I want to go.
So I researched what was available in our
area.
And we luckily live very close to Pennhurst
State, aka Pennurst asylum, popularly knownas.
I actually grew up like two minutes up theroad from pennurs.

(03:22):
Always knew about to explore it until Reneeand I went there for a public investigation.
That's when we got hooked up with Nick, andthe rest is history.
And then to answer your second question, no, Ididn't have any experiences as a kid.
I wish I had, but for me, it's just curiosity.

Speaker A (03:41):
Yeah, Nick.

Speaker C (03:42):
I had my first primal or paranormal experience at four years old.
We were coming home from Philadelphia, and Isaid, mom, there's a blonde haired lady
tapping outside the window.
And I saw this woman, historical dress, and
she had red shoes and she had blonde hair, andshe was just tapping on our window.
And then fast forward 2006.

(04:02):
I ended up at Fort Mifflin in Philadelphia,
right behind the airport.
And I was smelling bread, I was smelling
floral perfume.
I heard the screaming lady, which there is a
whole thing about, hung herself.
She actually had a yellow fever, and she was
screaming.
I've had countless experiences, which we can

(04:24):
get to later, but yeah, my favorite one iswhen I first met you guys.
And I came in contact with a spirit and Isaid, oh, my God, there's a black man standing
in this hallway right now.
And they both go, is he dead or alive?
I said, he's dead, but he's standing in thishallway.

Speaker A (04:40):
He's dead.

Speaker C (04:43):
And I said, okay, I gotta go run back upstairs.
And we turned the geoport on and I said, whatdid I just see?
And there was a little kid said, guard.
So that was at Pennhurst of what, November
2020, right?

Speaker B (04:55):
No, that was the second time.
That was around my birthday.

Speaker A (05:02):
Go ahead.

Speaker C (05:03):
I did.
I did get a very fun photo when I was a kid.
I got a photo of a soldier, and you can see ithas the rifle and has the hat.
And I watched that walk across, like there'sa. It's like a porch almost.
I watched it walk across, **** its gun, lookat us, and walk into a walk into a wall.

(05:23):
I said, no one is there.
There's nobody dressed in historical garb.
So I've had.

Speaker B (05:28):
Yeah, and they use that photo.

Speaker C (05:29):
They do use that photo.

Speaker B (05:30):
Yeah, yeah.
He has a photo of himself.
I think it's on their instagram of you or youwere at some.

Speaker C (05:35):
It was at hell house paracon.

Speaker B (05:37):
Yeah. And Fort mifflin was there with a booth.
And you held up your photo.
You're like, this is the photo I took when I
was eleven.
And they show it to people.

Speaker A (05:45):
Wow. Renee, can you top it?

Speaker D (05:49):
I don't think so.
I unfortunately didn't have any paranormal
experiences as a child growing up, but I'mbasically just going to kind of echo what
Jackie said.
Like, I was always curious about paranormal.
I just didn't have anybody to do it with,basically, so.

Speaker A (06:05):
Right.

Speaker D (06:06):
She was live streaming on her instagram, her Gettysburg investigation, while
I'm also watching, like, one of the paranormalshows on tv.
And I'm like, oh, my gosh.
Like, I didn't know she was into the
paranormal.
And I literally, I think, dmed you.
And I'm like, holy ****, like, I didn't knowyou were into the paranormal.
I love the paranormal.
And that's how we got hooked up.

(06:27):
And then, like Jackie said, we went toPennhurst for our first time, and we were
hooked.
Yeah.
But, you know, it was.
I was always fascinated by it.
I always wanted to know if, like, what I'mseeing on tv, like, what, you know, what
they're going through is, like, real, or is itjust.

Speaker A (06:43):
Sure.

Speaker D (06:44):
You know, just smoke scripted, you know, smoking mirrors and stuff, so.

Speaker A (06:50):
Absolutely.
So hold on, let me back up.
You saw a ghost outside your car window.
Was it running alongside?

Speaker C (07:01):
So it's actually just standing.
It's right off of the Schuylkill Expressway in
Philadelphia.
And there's, like, this little mile marker.
1770.
417.74.
And there was just this woman.
She was the best way I can describe it, a
skeleton.
Skeleton face.
Had the big poofy hoop skirt, white dress on,blonde hair was in a bun, red shoes.

(07:24):
Just tap it on the window.

Speaker A (07:26):
That's fascinating.
So you're four years.
Yeah.
You're four years old, and you're basically
turning and.
Hello.

Speaker C (07:34):
And I know, all right, you're dead.
I'm alive.
But you're here.
What's going on?

Speaker B (07:39):
And you told your mom?

Speaker C (07:40):
I told my mom, yeah.
She's.
She had experiences growing up.
I'm clairvoyant, so I've had experiences all
my life.

Speaker A (07:47):
That's.
That is awesome.
And again, Pennhurst is like one of thegranddaddy or goat places.
You know, spiritual, paranormal, you name it.
And really, your area, like, the midwest, is
kind.

(08:08):
People don't look at it like, I don't know,
like a hotspot, right?You think of New York, you think of LA, you
think of major cities, right?Because that's where you think all this.
But Gettysburg was some of the bloodiestbattles ever in the history of warfare.
And, you know, men were.

(08:29):
Were being, you know, cannonballs were taking
off.
Men's heads and just crazy stuff, you know,
that just happened there.
Of course you're going to get something that's
going to be terrible.
So, you know, I think that's great that you
guys have had all these experiences.
Let me ask you this.
When was the time, though?

Speaker B (08:49):
You.

Speaker A (08:49):
I think you already told me, though, when you got really hooked.
It was Pennhurst.
Was that the one that really hooked you?
That guy that got you involved with it?

Speaker D (09:00):
Yeah.

Speaker B (09:00):
Yeah. I mean, for me, a Gettysburg was my first, and I'll never forget.
So it's called after dark investigations.
They take people around at Gettysburg.
So anyone listening, you know, you want tolook into them because they're.
They were really good to take you out at nightand explore.
They have you meet in this, like, undisclosedlocation.

(09:21):
They don't tell you where you're meeting.

Speaker A (09:23):
Until, like, oh, really?

Speaker B (09:25):
And then they drive you around to different.
When you follow them in your car to differentlocations in Gettysburg.
And they.
You can't legally go on the battlefield, but
they take you as close as you can.
So, like.
Like the right outskirts of the.

Speaker D (09:43):
Like the border.

Speaker B (09:44):
Yeah, the border.
And they brought along a spirit box.
I think it was an SB eleven.
And I'll never forget, this voice comes
through and says, hey, bud.
And it was like this.

Speaker D (09:56):
Yeah, you played it for me.

Speaker B (09:57):
It was, hey, bud.
Like a very gargly voice that you're like,
this can't be the radio.
Like, you feel it in your bones.
You're like, that is not a voice on the radio.
That is not even a human voice.

Speaker C (10:13):
Yeah.

Speaker B (10:13):
And I think that's what.
That night, I was like, there's just no way
that that was human or any kind of radio.
So that's when I was like, okay, there's
something to this.

Speaker A (10:25):
Yeah.

Speaker B (10:26):
Then we went to Pennhurst, and then that was.
Yeah, that night when we met Nick, when he wasour guide, that night.
We had a lot happen that night.

Speaker D (10:37):
That was, like, the first time that I was totally convinced.

Speaker B (10:40):
Yeah.

Speaker D (10:41):
Because.
So we get there, we did a tour.
So we're kind of just walking.
And there was a big group.
There's about 25 of us.

Speaker C (10:51):
Yeah, 25 to 30 people.

Speaker D (10:52):
And Jackie and I were in front of the group, and we're walking along and we're
outside, and, like, I just kept hearing, like,a woman, like, speaking, and I'm like, okay.
Somebody's, like, just struggling, trying to,like, just say something.
And I'm like, you know, jenny.
Jenny was our guide.
I said, excuse me, jenny, I think somebody inthe back has a question.

(11:16):
And she's like, oh, okay.
So everybody kind of went silent.
Next thing I know, a girl in the back of thegroup comes right up and she's like, did you
hear that?Did you hear that?
And I looked at her.
I'm like, did you hear a woman?
She's like, yeah.

Speaker B (11:29):
She's like.

Speaker D (11:29):
It was coming from over there.
When you turn, it's just a big open field.

Speaker B (11:33):
Like, there's nothing.

Speaker D (11:33):
There's nothing there.
It was very weird.

Speaker B (11:36):
Like, that was like the beginning of the night.
That wasn't even the investigation.
We heard.

Speaker A (11:42):
Wow.

Speaker D (11:43):
Children giggling.
Like, there's no kids there.
Kids are not allowed there.
Like, I heard children giggling.
We heard a child whimper in the Mayflowerbuilding.
That was just totally.

Speaker B (11:56):
Singing.

Speaker C (11:57):
Kids doing scales, like, music.
Scales, I'll never forget.

Speaker D (12:01):
Yeah. We were in the Devon building.

Speaker B (12:03):
And it was a circle of twelve of us.

Speaker D (12:05):
About twelve of us.
It was totally.
We went completely dark.
So all the flashlights were out.
The only light coming in is the moonlight,basically.
And we're just sitting there and we're, youknow, communicating.
And all of a sudden you just hear.
Yeah, so creepy.
And, you know, at that point, you think youjust like, want to get up and, like, run out.

(12:27):
But there was just something so hauntinglybeautiful about it.
But also very sad.
But so to me, because I'm a mom and like, I.
Daughter, and it just like.
No, I. I hope that spirit is.

Speaker B (12:39):
At peace, at least.

Speaker D (12:40):
And. You know what I mean?

Speaker B (12:42):
Just.

Speaker D (12:42):
I don't know.
It was.
It was the most craziest thing I've everexperienced.

Speaker B (12:48):
It was.
I will never forget.
And it felt like it was.
Was coming.
It was.
Figure out where it was coming from.

Speaker D (12:54):
It was very ethereal sounding.

Speaker B (12:56):
It was.

Speaker D (12:56):
It was just, you know, coming from like.
It wasn't coming from like a specific area.
And Devon.
Devon is huge.
Like, it's almost like a maze.
Like.
Yeah, like one room goes another.
And it's very maze like.
This sound was just like, audible throughout
the entire building.

Speaker B (13:13):
Yeah.

Speaker D (13:13):
You know, of course, when we explain this to, like, people we're close
friends with.
Or even our spouses, they're like, oh, well,
it's probably somebody just with like a, youknow, a boombox hidden in the corner.
And I'm like, yeah, yeah, yeah.
No way.
Like that.
They can.
Because each time we've gone there, we've hada different experience.

Speaker B (13:32):
It's different every.

Speaker D (13:33):
It's different every single time.

Speaker A (13:36):
Yeah. That's really interesting because I've done episodes on the Missouri
State penitentiary.
Which is the 100 acres of blood.
I've done it on Ohio State reformatory, whichis aka Shawshank redemption.
That's where they filmed it.
Numerous films they filmed there, and it

(13:57):
sounds like Penn Hearse is kind of the sameway.
Every time people go there, they getsomething.
Something different, something, you know,crazy or something just mundane, like, hello.
Or, you know, how are you?Or, you know, or, again, something bad, like,
get out.

(14:17):
Or, you know, kill or murder.
Have you guys.
Let me back up here.
When you guys start an investigation.
How do you start an investigation?
And let me tell you, I've spoken to now twelveparanormal investigators, and they all do it
differently.
So I'm guessing you guys would do it a little
differently, too.
Some, when they enter the building, they say,

(14:38):
hey, I'm Nick.
I'm Jackie.
I'm Renee.
We're going to investigate tonight.
Please, you know, if you have a problem withus, let us know.
We will leave.
You know, we're very respectful others to go
in, start setting up the equipment, and theyjust want to be like, let's go.
Let's get in.
Where do you guys start?
When you guys start an investigation, do youresearch it first?

(15:01):
How do you go about it?

Speaker D (15:02):
So we do a lot of research prior to the investigation because, number one, like, a
lot of these places are very heavy and verydark, so we want to know what we're kind of
getting ourselves into.
So we always like to do, like, some research
and get, like, a feel for the place and, like,you know, time period wise, like, what went on
so and so on and so forth.
And then, you know, we get there, we set up
our equipment.
We get a kind of lay of the land.

(15:23):
Like, you know, we'll do, like, a tour.

Speaker C (15:25):
Yeah.

Speaker D (15:25):
And get the lay of the land.
And then we figure out, okay, like, what are
the hotspots?And then once we figure that out, then we just
kind of say, okay, well, let's start here.
And then we kind of just, you know, go from
there.
And usually when we first start off, you know,
we will introduce ourselves.
We say we come in peace.
We. We're here, you know, respectfully, andwe're just here to ask some questions and, you

(15:50):
know, basically get.
Get your story told.

Speaker B (15:54):
Yeah. And I would add on that we also, like, sometimes the guides or whoever's
in charge of the private.
We do a lot of privates where we rent it out
for ourselves, and they'll say, do you want toknow the hot?
Like, do you want to know more?Like, do you want to know what people
experienced in these rooms.
And oftentimes we say no. Like, we'd rather

(16:14):
find out, like, experience it and then letthat.
Like, if that person says, oh, yeah, severalpeople have told me the same thing.
That's always a cool experience to be like,okay, so I'm not crazy.
It wasn't a figment of my imagination whereI'm not influencing this investigation.
So there are times where we will tell them,like, don't tell us specifics, what other
people have gone through in these rooms.

(16:36):
But we like to recap later.

Speaker A (16:39):
Nick, anything to add?

Speaker C (16:41):
Not. No, they kind of covered it up.
Yeah.

Speaker A (16:44):
Yeah. So have you guys ever gotten to a place, and one of you, if not all three
of you, said, wow, this is heavy.
Like, there's something wrong here.
I'm not sure if we should do this tonight.

Speaker D (17:00):
I did.

Speaker B (17:01):
Which one?

Speaker D (17:02):
So when you and I went to Sk.
Laish.

Speaker A (17:06):
Oh, what's Sk?

Speaker B (17:09):
It's in Massachusetts.

Speaker D (17:11):
Sk Pierce mansion.
It's a victorian mansion located in Gardner,
Massachusetts.
Jackie and I have been there twice.
Nick's been there.
No, you've been there twice.
I'm sorry.
Yeah.
But separate trips.
And our first time was.

Speaker B (17:24):
It was good.
I mean, it was.
You know, we saw an orb of.

Speaker C (17:27):
Light bounce across the wall.

Speaker D (17:29):
We saw.
We saw an orb bouncing off.
They captured Jackie and Nick saw a littlegirl kind of, I guess, walking across.

Speaker B (17:39):
She grabbed the red pod.
When we asked.

Speaker D (17:43):
A picture.

Speaker B (17:44):
Yeah.

Speaker D (17:44):
We said, okay, Rachel.
Rachel.
They saw Rachel outside of this one room thatwe were in.
And they said, okay, Rachel, on account ofthree, you know, grab the Rem pod.
And Nick took three pictures back to back.

Speaker B (18:00):
She was in the second one.

Speaker D (18:01):
She was on in the second one.
So first picture.
Second picture, you literally see a handgrabbing the rempod.
Like, you see the definition in the fingers.
And then third picture, nothing.

Speaker A (18:14):
Yeah. I am looking through some of your pictures here, and I'm not going to share
all of them because I don't know howtechnology might screw this up, but I will
share them on our social media.

Speaker B (18:29):
Yeah, we'll follow up with you later and point out which one.

Speaker A (18:31):
Yeah. Okay. Because I see one that you had with a. It looks like an older house
you're in, and it looks like someone's sittingin a antique chair.
I know this is kind of, like, I don't know,picture talking about, but that, to me, is
really interesting.
If you.

(18:52):
Have you ever, like, gone into a room and,like, seen, like, an apparition or a mist?
Like, sitting in a chair, sitting outside.

Speaker B (19:01):
What?

Speaker A (19:03):
Holy man.

Speaker C (19:06):
Fun story, actually.
When did we go to Lizzie's?
Two years ago.

Speaker B (19:10):
Two years ago? Yeah.

Speaker C (19:10):
So if you know the Lizzie Borden case.

Speaker A (19:13):
Yes.

Speaker C (19:14):
Very, very, very connected to that house.
A little bit too much connected.
But I spent the night in the John Morris room,
where Abby Borden.

Speaker A (19:23):
Yeah.

Speaker C (19:24):
They spent the night in Lizzie and Emma's room.
And it's right next door to me, about 245 toAbby Borden running around the bed.
And I said, okay, I gotta get out of here.
So I walked down, walked out, walked out of
the front stairs, and I decided to just startup a conversation.
And I'm smelling food being cooked at 34504:00 in the morning.
And I'm like, bridget, are you cooking?And I hear from the kitchen, yeah.

(19:45):
Cooking for masterboard.
And I said, oh, all right.

Speaker A (19:49):
Wow.

Speaker C (19:50):
She had her door.

Speaker A (19:51):
What?

Speaker C (19:52):
Was kicked? Yeah, it opened her bedroom door.
You got a lock?

Speaker B (19:57):
Shut it.

Speaker D (19:57):
It's like a door.
So it's like, you know, for you to lap, you
gotta pull it and then turn the knob.

Speaker C (20:02):
Turn the knob to get it to lock.

Speaker B (20:03):
Yeah.

Speaker D (20:04):
And her just.
It just clicked open and open.
And she thought it was me coming in the room.
I'm like, Jackie.
I'm like, I was in the John Morris room.
We were going to dinner outside or still out
at dinner.
Yeah.
I said there was nobody.
There was nobody in here.

Speaker B (20:19):
Yeah. So I had just had surgery, like, three weeks prior, and I was like, I am
not missing this.
This investigation.
So I wound up leaving dinner early.
He walked me back, and he's like, you're gonna
be by yourself in this house, just so youknow.
And I'm like, I don't even care.
I need to leave.

Speaker A (20:35):
Come on.

Speaker B (20:37):
And the whole time I'm laying.
So I'm in Lizzie Borden's room.

Speaker A (20:41):
Yeah.

Speaker B (20:42):
Original, right?

Speaker C (20:43):
Apparently.

Speaker B (20:44):
Apparently. So anyway, I'm laying in her bed, whatever.
And the whole time I'm just hearing, like,things running around me.
And apparently there were children.

Speaker C (20:54):
Yeah. In 1848, her great aunt killed herself.
Postpartum.
She drowned two kids in a well next door on
property.
Slitter.
So Dave is two children, Eliza and holder.
They visit the third door of the house.

Speaker B (21:07):
Yeah. So I was hearing that going on around me.
Then she.
Then Renee came back because Emma's room is
inside of Lizzie's room.
She.
She came back from dinner, came in.
I remember seeing her get something, and then
I remember distinctly her pulling the doorshut.

Speaker D (21:21):
And I remember, yeah, I had a.

Speaker B (21:23):
Lot of effort to like.
Yeah, I closed it.
And.

Speaker D (21:26):
Yeah, you and I went into John Mars room to do, like, an SB seven session.
Yep.
So we were in there, and then.

Speaker B (21:34):
I hear the door.
She heard the doorknob turn, fly open.
I sat up, and I'm like, renee.
And there's literally no one there at all.
And I'm just like, okay.
I laid back down.
Maybe five minutes later, you come up, and I'mlike, renee, did you open my door?

Speaker D (21:49):
I'm like, no.

Speaker B (21:50):
I'll never forget her look on her face.
And she looks and sees the door open, and shegoes, how did this get open?
I'm like, I haven't left this bed.

Speaker D (21:57):
I don't know.
Like, wow.

Speaker A (22:01):
Yeah, you guys are amazing.
We're, like, 20 minutes into this, and already
you've scared me.
You thrilled me.
This is a movie.
I'd be on the edge of my seat.
So that's one of my bucket lists to go to thelizzie board and house and everything.

Speaker B (22:19):
I have dreams about it.
It's calling me back.

Speaker C (22:26):
Will draw you in.
Once you go, it draws you in.
There's a different kind of energy.
Everybody thinks there's, oh, there's evil,
there's demonic.
No, there's just a brutal murder that
happened.
There's stuff.

Speaker D (22:39):
Yeah, it's weird.

Speaker B (22:41):
See, I don't even have to.

Speaker C (22:42):
You feel watched all the time.
If you're a woman, you're gonna get touched.
Don't touch money in that house.

Speaker D (22:49):
I just remember, like, growing up as a kid and my dad telling us the rhyme,
like, Lizzie Borden had Max.
You know, I just remember that freaked me out
so much as a kid.
But then, like, you know, then you just kind
of forget about it, move on with life.
And then, you know, once I found out Nick was
obsessed with Lizzie Borden, you know, it justdidn't interest me.

(23:10):
I'm just like, okay, so what?She killed her family, whatever, you know, I
remember the rhyme, blah, blah, blah.
Then he said, no, no. And he literally sat me
down for, like, an hour.
Had a power.
I sat down for over an hour, and by the end ofthe hour, I'm like, okay.
I'm, like, captivating.
And then right before we checked in to the

(23:32):
bed, to Lizzie's house, we went to the FallRiver Historical society and did a tour there.
And they had a section in there of, like, allcurated items from the murder.
Oh, yeah, there was, like, unfortunately, youweren't allowed to take any pictures of it.
But they had Abby Borden's hair extension.
Hair piece with the blood on it on top that

(23:56):
had the drops of blood on it still there.
Were letters.
There was all kinds of stuff.

Speaker C (24:01):
They even had Andrew and Abby's hair in, like, petri dishes that they tested.

Speaker D (24:06):
They even had Lizzie Borden's meatloaf recipe written down on an index card,
I guess after she got.
After she was acquitted and, you know, kind of
sort of integrated back into society somewhat,even though she, you know.

Speaker A (24:20):
I love meatloaf, so there you go.

Speaker D (24:23):
And I'm just like, I don't know.
It just really.

Speaker B (24:25):
I don't know.

Speaker D (24:26):
I loved it.
I really did.
It's definitely one of those, like, if youhave an opportunity to go, go, definitely.

Speaker B (24:33):
I would add on that.
One thing I didn't know until we went to the
historical society was that it was the firstviral crime, true crime story of its time.

Speaker D (24:43):
It was like the OJ trial.

Speaker B (24:44):
Yeah. You know, whatever you can think of right now going on.
But it was that first true crime junkie storyphotographed.

Speaker C (24:53):
True crime.

Speaker B (24:54):
Yeah. And it was just really cool to experience staying there and like, to say,
like, even if you don't even believe inparanormal, it's a piece of history.
And to sleep in that house, it's just.
It was so cool.
It's.

Speaker D (25:08):
Yeah, it was.

Speaker A (25:10):
Yeah. And that, to me, is.
And a couple questions for the ladies.
Renee and Jackie, Nick brought this uptypically, and I hate to say this, but
typically, the places you are going into weremen did not treat women very well.

(25:30):
Right.
Let's just be honest.
It's there.
And I always ask the female investigators, do
you ever feel a fear going into a jail, maybea murder house where the guy, like, beat his
wife, maybe killed her, tortured her?Do you ever feel like going in there and being
like, ugh, you know, I don't know if I want todo this.

(25:53):
You know, there is that feeling for either oneof you.

Speaker D (25:55):
Like, you know, just like, oh, gosh, like, what am I getting myself into?
But then it's like, I'm not gonna.
I'm not gonna show fear.
I'm just, you know, like, I'm ready, you know?It's like I kind of have to push past that and
just, you know, thankfully, I haven't hadanything come at me or any, like, anything
physically harm me or.

Speaker A (26:15):
No one touched your hair, grabbed your hair, bruises, cuts?

Speaker D (26:19):
No. I've never felt like guys.
Like, you know, I've never gotten sick.
I've never, you know, experienced, like, oh,my gosh, you feel faint, like, I got to get
out of this place.
No, nothing like that.
But it's like, where it's like, oh, my goshlike, okay, knowing what I know about this
place, I'm a little nervous, but I'm alsoright, you know?

Speaker A (26:41):
Yeah.

Speaker D (26:42):
How about you, Jackie?

Speaker B (26:45):
I don't think I've experienced anything negative.
The only time was we went to Fort Mifflin.
The only time I felt something where I was
like, okay, this is weird.
Was we were in one of the case meets, and I
felt something around my neck.
And it's kind of weird when something happens,

(27:06):
because you're like, you don't.
Your head, your mind doesn't automatically go
to this paranormal.
It's kind of like, huh, I'm feeling something
weird.
What's going on?
And I felt like something was just squeezingmy neck.
And I heard this on a recording.
I listened to it recently, and I was like,
who's squeezing my neck?And then I think you mentioned William.

(27:27):
William.
What was it?

Speaker D (27:28):
William Howe.

Speaker B (27:29):
He was hung there.
Oh, that's right.
No, I felt my neck getting squeezed.
And I looked at Nick, and I didn't really know
the history into too much depth.
It was like I general had an idea what went on
there.
I go, Nick was.
Somebody hung here?And he goes, yeah, William Howe was hung here.
And I'm like, william, are you grabbing myneck?
And then we had a rem pod set up, and the rempod went off as if to say yes.

(27:52):
So that was the time where I felt somethingthreatening me in a way, but it was almost
like communicating with me, like I was hunghere, kind of thing.
But, no, I don't think I felt anythingmalevolent towards me.
Yeah, I kind of go, I don't know.

(28:13):
I don't really think about that.

Speaker A (28:14):
So, yeah, I would say on the flip side, have you ever had a handsy ghost?
Any ghost be a little bit like, hey, baby,what's up?
Kind of ghost like, nothing like that.

Speaker C (28:27):
Yeah, she got.
She got bit of pennhurst.

Speaker B (28:30):
Yeah. I don't know what that was about.
That was.
That was a crazy night.

Speaker C (28:37):
That was an insane night.

Speaker A (28:38):
Okay.

Speaker B (28:39):
Very interesting experience.
We'll probably go into that later.
But it was very active night.
We were on the third floor of Mayflower, and I
remember feeling, like, this burning sensationon my inner thigh.
And I had jeans on.
It was a warm night.

Speaker C (28:52):
I just kept.

Speaker B (28:54):
Yeah. And I kept like, oh, my God, what is itching me?
You know?And I'm like, scratching.
I don't think anything of it until I get homethat night.
You know, I'm getting changed, and I lookdown, and I'm like, there is a massive bruise
on my inner thigh.
I have never bruised like that before.
Never bruised like that since I took a photo.
I sent it to the group chat, and I'm like,

(29:15):
should I be concerned?And everyone was like, whoa, what the hell?
And I'm like, yeah.
Like, I don't know where that came from.
It was clear.
It's on our.
It's probably in our vials that we sent you.

Speaker A (29:26):
Yes, I saw the picture.
I did see the picture.
Yes.

Speaker B (29:29):
Yeah, it's.
It's huge.
I'm.
And it.

Speaker A (29:31):
Yeah.

Speaker B (29:32):
Three weeks for that to go away.
I'm not.
There's nothing wrong with my labs.
Like, there's nothing to explain that it was
not there before I went into thatinvestigation.

Speaker A (29:44):
Yeah, absolutely.
Renee, anything happened to you?

Speaker D (29:48):
No, no, nothing.
Where it was like, this is getting weird.
No, no, no.

Speaker A (29:53):
Good, good.
I will tell you.
If you guys ever investigate the Lem familymansion, if you're in the female bathroom
going to the bathroom, Charles Lamp, the ghostlikes to peer over the bathroom stall and
check you out.
So be careful of Charles.
He's a pervert.
You might want to, you know, come to beat it.

Speaker C (30:15):
I've heard of it.

Speaker B (30:16):
Yeah.

Speaker C (30:17):
I just don't know where it is.

Speaker B (30:19):
Yeah.

Speaker A (30:21):
So my next question is, sometimes I've heard, again, paranormal investigators,
they hear something like maybe in the spiritbox they're using or maybe on their digital
recorders, whatever that says, like breathingor breath.
And immediately the whole group has troublebreathing.

(30:41):
And this happened to one of my paranormalgroups.
I interviewed 305 paranormal in Florida.
Shout out.
They were in this house and they hurtconsumption, clear as day.
And consumption is basically where you justhave trouble breathing and you die from just.
You just can't breathe.

(31:02):
And they hurt consumption.
And all of them at the same time were like,man, I'm in trouble breathing.
Yeah.
You okay?
No, I'm not okay.
And they walked out the location they were at,
and then they took some breaths and they werelike, well, that was weird.
Anything like that happen to you guys?

Speaker B (31:21):
I know you get more physical.

Speaker C (31:23):
I get physically affected a lot.

Speaker A (31:25):
Yeah, I bet.

Speaker C (31:28):
Pennhurst. Yeah. I felt like someone punched me in my face.

Speaker B (31:35):
I think we get headaches.

Speaker C (31:36):
I got headaches a lot.
Whenever I go to dizziness, Pennhurst is.
I get a lot of headaches when I go there.
I can't go to basement of Devon.
To the right side.
I can go to the left side.

Speaker A (31:48):
Not to the right.

Speaker C (31:49):
There's something.
Something dark.
Yeah, I'll get into that later.
But I. Whenever I go down there, I get a
splitting headache.
And I get really sick.
I get very nauseous.
Like, I just can't go down.

Speaker A (32:02):
Anything like Jackie, Renee, anything from you?
You two, anything like that?

Speaker C (32:07):
No.

Speaker D (32:08):
I've never had any issues with breathing or.

Speaker B (32:12):
I think so.
I mean, we've been with people who vomited or
got physically ill, but no, I don't think so.

Speaker A (32:22):
Well, that's good.
I'm glad that hasn't happened because that
would be crazy to experience that.
And maybe you will.
Who knows?And then my last question before we get into
your investigations.
Have you ever had a spirit attach itself to
you and you take it home?

Speaker C (32:40):
Yeah.

Speaker A (32:41):
Okay, tell me about it.

Speaker B (32:42):
Yeah, I have.

Speaker A (32:44):
Okay. Talk about it.

Speaker C (32:47):
Penhurst story.
Little girl Emily.
She was a spirit there.
She was a patient there.
She passed away there.
She's still.
She's earthbound.
So she has not crossed.
She doesn't want to cross.
She considers me of a little brother to her.

Speaker A (33:00):
Wow.

Speaker C (33:00):
And every time I go, she'll come through.
And it was probably two years ago, and I justcame home and my lights were going on and off
in my room.
And I was just.
I felt someone jump up on my back and grab meand, you know, like.
As. Like a toddler would to their older cousinor their older brother or something.
Just play with them.
I said, you gotta go home.

(33:21):
And the only way I can get her to go home.
I drove by Pennhurst, open a door, and I said,
go home.
I'll be back next weekend.
Go home and not be here.
Wow.
Yeah.
I've had that happen to me.
That's about it.

Speaker A (33:32):
Wow. Jackie, Renee.

Speaker D (33:34):
No, thankfully, I've not had anything follow me.
Follow you.
My husband always says, you know, right before
I leave for an investigation, please do notbring anything home.
I said, I will do my best.

Speaker B (33:47):
I'm off the train of thought.
It's probably controversial, but I think if I
don't want to believe you can bring anythinghome, it doesn't happen.

Speaker A (33:57):
Okay, that's a good thought.

Speaker B (34:01):
I've never experienced anything in my house.
And it's kind of weird because, like, when Igo home, I block it off.
I turn it off, and I don't.
You know.

Speaker A (34:10):
So, yeah.
So that leads me to after investigations, you
guys.
You guys.
Sage, do you bless each other?What do you do?
Just to make sure there's no evil or nothingbad.

Speaker D (34:25):
Sometimes tired after investigation, we just go to bed.
And then it's like, I don't know, we forget.
We kind of forget to do that, you know?

Speaker C (34:35):
But no, I really don't.
I mean, I light sage before investigation, but
again, I just think Sage makes your housesmell nice.
I don't know if it really does anything.

Speaker A (34:45):
Okay, that's interesting.
That's interesting.
So let's get to my favorite part.
Let's talk about some of your favorite
investigations.
However, wants to start.
Why don't you guys, like, could you do me afavor?
How about, like, what you.
Let's talk about three of them and kind of
rank them is.
I'm guessing Pennhurst is high up there, but,

(35:10):
you know, hey, however you guys want to talkabout them, you know, just feel free.

Speaker D (35:15):
I would say Pennhurst just because that was, like, the first place I went to, and
the most of, like, activity or experience, andher escape years would be my second there.

Speaker B (35:34):
It's kind of tricky.

Speaker D (35:35):
I really like the Shanley.
Say the Shanley, definitely.

Speaker A (35:38):
And what's that? Is that a house or a hotel.

Speaker B (35:42):
In Napanok, New York?

Speaker D (35:44):
Yeah, that was our most recent.

Speaker C (35:49):
Number one, top down, Lizzie Borden's house.
Every time I go, there's something.
It's.
It's a favorite location of mine, that numberone.
Number two, trans Allegheny lunatic Asylum.
Ooh, that is a. That was fun.
That was a long.
It was a long investigation, but it was a very
fun location.
And three, I'm gonna go toss up between SK,

(36:12):
Pierce and Pennhurst.
Gave you four, but sK, Pierce and Pennhurst
are.
They are fun.
All of them.

Speaker A (36:20):
Nice, Jackie.

Speaker B (36:22):
Oh, I would say this is gonna be a little controversial, but I'm gonna say my
number one spot is White Hill.
Whitehill mansion in New Jersey.
Bordentown, New Jersey.

Speaker D (36:34):
Oh, Fieldsboro.

Speaker B (36:35):
It used to be called Borden Town.
Fieldsboro, New Jersey.
We've been there probably about four or fivetimes.
Each time's a little different, but it's neverdisappoints.
It's an easy hour drive for us.
That's where I got a photo of a soldier in the
mirror.
I think that's in our little file.

Speaker A (36:51):
Yep. Yep.

Speaker B (36:53):
Seeing my second would be.

Speaker D (37:00):
I'll say.

Speaker B (37:01):
Penhurst just because it's the most frequent one we've been to.
Yeah.
But the next few months, it's completely dead.
Not gonna lie.
There's some nights you go to penthouse and
nothing happens.
And other times, it's, like, off the.

Speaker C (37:13):
Charts, and then, like.

Speaker B (37:15):
Yeah, and then my third would be Lizzie Borden's.
I don't know that.
Yeah.
That I don't have an attachment to it like hedoes, but, like, it keeps coming in my dreams.
Like, it's not anything bad.
It's just like, I have a dream that I'm back
in that house, and we're all there, and it'shappy.
It's nothing bad.
It's just like, I'm back in that house, so I

(37:36):
think it wants me back.
I don't know.

Speaker A (37:40):
You know? Yeah, that reminds me.
You know, you probably all know what, like,regression or regressed dreams.
You know, like, in the past, you were.
Maybe.
You lived at the Lizzie Borden house.
Jackie maybe.
Who knows?

Speaker B (38:00):
Yeah.

Speaker C (38:01):
You've known her for almost 200 years.

Speaker A (38:04):
That's. That's awesome.
So out of each of those ones, can you give me
Renee?I'll start with you.
You kind of talked a little bit about it, butgive me your best experience.
And kind of your, you know, that really kindof said, wow, this is, this is an amazing
place, and I'd love to come back.

Speaker D (38:26):
Kind of.
It's close.

Speaker B (38:28):
It's.

Speaker D (38:28):
I would pen her.
I would say Pennhurst.
Pennhurst was probably the one I've had most.
My, the most experiences at just with, you
know, the things that I, you know, thechildren laughing and singing, like, I mean.

Speaker B (38:42):
Oh, the guy that walked up on you.
Oh, yeah.

Speaker D (38:44):
So there was another instance where we were there investigating, and we had
another person join with us that knew Jackiegrowing up, high school.
And he kind of just went off on his own,walking around, and then he said, hey, Renee,
he's like, come here.

Speaker B (38:59):
He's like, check this out.

Speaker D (39:00):
So I kind of left the group.
You guys were doing an EVP session.
I go upstairs, and I go into the hallway.
There was another older couple up there, and
they said to me, they're like, there's, like,shuffling or walking or something coming from
back here.
Like, something.

Speaker B (39:16):
There's.

Speaker D (39:16):
So we walked down.
We're standing there, and, you know, it was
raining outside, but we could.
We could kind of tell, like, okay, well,
that's rain.
That's wind.
Because they.
There was, like, plastic on the windows.
So we knew, like, okay, well, that's just thewind.
But then we were getting, like, a. Like.
And we would.

(39:37):
We would go.
We would come back as.
And then it would.
It would come back, like, so, like, we're
doing this back and forth, and then it waslike, like, I like, it was like the hair kind
of stood up on the back of my neck.
And your friend Matt.
So I'm kind of standing next to Matt, and allof a sudden you hear, like, feet shuffling,

(39:58):
like, you know, and a lot of those people,some of them, like, maybe just walk that
great.
Or you know, a lot of these kind of just
shuffled around so it sounded like feetscraping on the concrete, and it was scary.

Speaker B (40:11):
It ran up on you.

Speaker D (40:12):
It kind of, like, came, and I'm.
And I kind of just, like, turned.
Like, I felt like it was, like, right here,like, right on me.
And I'm just like.
Like, that.
That creeped me out.

Speaker B (40:22):
I was like, wow.

Speaker D (40:23):
Like. And then I came running downstairs, and I saw you and I dragged you,
and I'm like, you're not gonna believe this.
Yeah.

Speaker C (40:31):
Holy ****.

Speaker B (40:31):
What?

Speaker C (40:32):
Run upstairs.
And I was like, do it again.
And of course it doesn't.

Speaker B (40:35):
Do it again.

Speaker A (40:36):
Yeah, right.

Speaker C (40:37):
Yelling at a window.
I'm like, do it again.
And nothing.

Speaker D (40:41):
And then, like, we went back up there, and I said, I want to go back to where
I hate it coming from.
So I followed the hallway.
There's just, like.
It just dead ends.
Like, there's no. That was creepy because itwas literally like somebody just kind of
walked.
Shuffling.
And then it's getting louder and closer, morelike.
Like, quicker.
And I'm like.
And I kind of just, like.

(41:01):
I was turning as if I'm, like, guarding
myself, like.

Speaker B (41:04):
Like, coming at you.

Speaker A (41:07):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's.
That is scary to hear that, especially when
you can't see anything and it's quiet and youjust hear that, right?
And you're just.
What's going on?
So, Nick, I know.
It's Lizzie Borden, right?

Speaker C (41:24):
Yes. Yeah.

Speaker A (41:25):
But what keeps you coming back for more?
What is that experience that you say, man, Igotta come back again.
I gotta see what this up?

Speaker C (41:34):
Yeah. It's the boarding house.
It was my 15th birthday, and I spent the night
there.
And not.
It wasn't even through the spirit box.
We were in the sitting room where Andrew was
murdered.
And the whole given the door.
And I hear from behind me, Emma, the boy'sback.

Speaker B (41:51):
They're talking about you.

Speaker C (41:52):
You're talking about me.

Speaker A (41:54):
Okay.

Speaker B (41:55):
All right.

Speaker D (41:55):
Turn the skin back on.

Speaker C (41:56):
And I say, all right, who's in here?
Andrew comes through, and we had dowsing rods.
And I said, can you show me where you are?
And points to right behind where I'm sitting.
I said, are you behind me?
Yes.
I said, okay, all right.
So they definitely know me.
They know I'm here.
They know I've been here.
Why do they know that?

Speaker A (42:15):
Yeah.

Speaker C (42:16):
So that.

Speaker A (42:18):
That.

Speaker C (42:19):
And every time.

Speaker A (42:21):
Oh, go on.
I'm sorry.

Speaker C (42:22):
Every time I go, it's.
You know, I don't think you believe me the
first time I said, listen, I have this bigconnection to Lizzie.
This one needed to see it for herself.
We were up on the third floor, and I said,
where are you?And the woman comes through, I'm here, Lizzie,
I'm here.

Speaker D (42:36):
Yeah, yeah, we heard.
Like, I heard Lizzie several times.
Oh, yeah.
And then saying, nick's here.

Speaker C (42:43):
He's back.
I'm back.

Speaker D (42:45):
Yeah, he's back.

Speaker B (42:46):
Yeah.

Speaker C (42:47):
Yeah.

Speaker A (42:48):
That is amazing.
And that is an intelligent haunting.
And, you know, that, to me, is one of the besthauntings, right?
In my opinion, that you get an intelligenthaunting, something that, you know, interacts
with you to that degree is very, very rare.

(43:11):
Right?
At least in my opinion.

Speaker C (43:13):
I have another r1.
Quick.
I was.

Speaker A (43:15):
Yeah, go ahead.

Speaker C (43:16):
I was just given a door and I was locking up.
I had to lock up the Mayflower building.
So I start up, third floor, and no one's
there.
Second floor.
No one's there.
First floor, no one's there.
Go to the basement.
And I'm just.
You hate.
Yeah, basement's creepy.
And Mayflower.
And this woman comes.
This woman just glided across the floor, andit was a world war two style nurse.

(43:38):
And she said, oh, you're back.
And her head turned this like that.
Her face went from human to skeleton, and shedissipated.

Speaker A (43:45):
Oh, all right.

Speaker C (43:48):
Okay, I'm leaving.
Good night.

Speaker A (43:50):
That's where I run.

Speaker C (43:53):
I left.

Speaker A (43:54):
Oh, I don't blame you.

Speaker C (43:56):
You gotta lock up by yourself.

Speaker A (43:59):
Yeah. Yeah, that's where I run.
I hear you.

Speaker C (44:03):
You know, you're followed.
You feel it.
And there's a tunnel there.
And I'm like, all right, I just gotta go.
I'm coming in.
If you want to follow me, be my guest.
Don't scare me, but I'll lock up.
Good night.

Speaker A (44:14):
Yeah, and for Jack, before I get to you, you guys, correct me if I'm wrong, but I
feel the Villisca axe murder house and LizzieBorden house are very, very similar in the
sense I've been to Villisca three times.
When me and my mom went so bad, we really.

(44:35):
Oh, you guys will love it.
Absolutely love it.
Anyway, I went through with my mom, and my momis.
She always had a way.
She's in clairvoyant or sensitive, but she.
She always has a way of just, like, feelingstuff.
Like she can meet somebody.
And immediately.
She always used to joke with me when I wasdating.

(44:56):
She'd be like, oh, that girl's not good foryou.
And we break up, like, three weeks later.
You know, my mom was just right.
Like, my mom just said that thing and itwasn't because of her.
Influence.
It was just like, yeah, that chick is crazy.
I'm out of here.
But anyway, when you go to Villisca, one of
the main things when you walk in, it's a smallfarmhouse.

(45:18):
It's.
You still see the axe marks from the
gentleman.
So when you look above, you still can see
them.
I'm guessing, Nick, your brain is just going
to go wild when you're in there.
And when you.
When you.
So as you guys know, they killed the entire
family.
The person killed the entire family, including

(45:40):
babies.
So when you go in there and you see, like, the
little.
And if you're a mom, you're gonna be, like,
tearing up.
Like, you're gonna see this little cradle.
This cradle.
And, you know, there was a little baby in
there, you know, and you're just gonna tearup.
Like, my mom just started crying.
And you walk in there and you just feel.

(46:03):
And they leave everything the way they had it.
Because the killer, he put, like, a cloth over
the mirrors, which is to me, a level freaky.
So when he was killing the people, before he
killed them, he put a cloth over the mirrorand that cloth is still there.
You can't touch it or people will freak out onyou.

(46:25):
But when you go into the attic, immediatelyyou feel something with your clairvoyant,
sensitive whatever.
You feel heavy.
Like, I told my mom, I was just like, whoa, Idon't like this, mom.
She goes, yeah, honey, I don't like it either.
And we got out of there.
Now, the second time I went with my daughterand my daughter was like, dad, this is.

(46:47):
I don't feel good.
This is weird.
And I'm like, it's okay, honey.
You know, he's probably being in this
farmhouse.
It was the summertime, so at that time, they
didn't have air conditioning.
And my daughter's like, I don't feel right.
And as soon as we went into where the girlswere killed, my daughter was like, I feel
sick, dad.
And I'm.
And I'm like, okay, honey, let's get out.
And she went out and she doubled over and she

(47:08):
got sick.
And I. And I said, was something you ate,
sweetie?And she goes, no, dad.
I just.
I don't know.
And we were thinking on staying the night.
And my daughter, after that said, no way I am
staying the night because we were going tostay the night because she's in the
paranormal, too.
And she's like, nope, not happening.
Sorry, dad.
We got to drive back.
It's about 4 hours away from me, so it isn'ttoo bad.

(47:30):
But the funny thing that always cracks me upis there are houses on each side of it.
Neighbors, right?You're telling me they've never looked out
their window and seen something?Come on.
You've had to see something because this islike really, really like the Lizzie Borden

(47:51):
house.
Just paranormal everywhere.
Just on the grounds in the house.
And I'm just like, that's something you guys
get.
I highly, highly recommend.

Speaker D (48:01):
So I'm the planner and we're trying to get.

Speaker B (48:06):
I've already said we're doing Ballista and Sally House on the same trip
because they're not that far from each other.
Yeah, we're going to fly to Kansas City.
Already know where we're going.

Speaker D (48:15):
Yeah.

Speaker A (48:16):
There you go.

Speaker B (48:17):
Lines up with everyone's schedule.

Speaker A (48:20):
Just so you guys know, too, it's a small town.
So when you go into a cafe to, like, getsomething to eat all people will turn to you
and go, so you're at Villisca, huh?And you'll be like, yeah.
And he'll be like, okay.
Because that's the only reason to go to that
town.
I mean, there's no, there's like 3000 people.
It's a small town.
Like any small town anywhere.

(48:41):
And everybody knows each other's business.
So when you start walking in, they're just
like, let's go, huh?So, Jackie, tell me about, again, your
favorite experience and your favorite.

Speaker B (48:57):
There's a couple, but kind of piggybacking off of what you said about the
neighbors at Belliska looking over and seeingsomething in the windows at Esky Pierce
haunted victorian mansion in Gardner,Massachusetts.
We did solos.
And you know where you write down a location,

(49:18):
you put it in a hat and everyone picks outwhere they're going.
I got the basement and I'm lucky you.
Yeah.
I'm kicking myself to this day because I'mlike, I should have recorded this.
But I think we don't record as much as somegroups do because we just.
We want to live in the moment.
Yeah.
We want to be in the moment.
And also we don't have time to.

Speaker D (49:37):
Edit, so that's part of it.

Speaker B (49:39):
But. But I went.
I went down to the basement and I was, I was
freaking out.
I'm just like, I don't want to be down here.
I hate this place.
Because Marian, who's like the caretaker
there, she, he shows us this infamous picturethat a guest got down in the basement of this,
like, scary looking face somewhere in thebasement.
And that's all I kept thinking about while I'mdown there.

(50:00):
So anyway, I sit down.
There's a red light on in the basement that
stays on.
It's like this big red light.
So I'm sitting there.
I'm like, I don't know what to do right now.
So I'm just sitting there listening.
And then I get out my sp seven and I put it
on, and I just start asking questions.
And I'm like, you know, is anyone here with
me?And I hear a woman's voice go, what is it,

(50:24):
under feet?And I was like.
I looked down, and I'm like, there's justconcrete here.
I'm like, are you saying you're, like, underthe floor?
And then I'm like, where are you?Where do you want me to go?
And then I heard the woman's voice comethrough again.
Say to your left or to the left?Something along the lines of, look to the
left.
I look to the left.
So I spent another, I don't know, 15 minutesdown there.

(50:46):
I go back and I'm talking to Marian, and Itell her what I experienced, and she goes,
come here.
Come here.
Let me show you this.
She pulls out her phone, she scrolls through,
and she pulls up a photo that the neighbortook of the mansion in the basement.

(51:07):
As they.
I wish I had the photo.
Clear as day.
You see a silhouette of a woman in the
basement window.
And I'm like, that was to the left of where I
was sitting in the basement.
Like, that exact window was to my left.
And then when I told her how, I was like, Ithink something was telling me that it's under
the floor they actually recently found.

(51:30):
So years ago, they did find a human, a female
pelvic.
Was it a pelvic bone?
Pelvic bone in the kiln in the basement.
And then she said, what was it?
Two months prior to us coming there, theyfound another bone.
Yeah, an ulna, forearm bone of a female.
So they hired some contractor to come out into

(51:50):
the basement and dig up the concrete.
I think they were putting some gutter or some
kind of drain in, and it was under theconcrete.
They found the bone.
So she's like, something's telling you it's
under there.
And I'm like, I didn't even know that until I
tried that.

Speaker D (52:05):
You didn't know that?

Speaker B (52:06):
And then she kind of filled in the gaps there, and I was like, okay.
So that made total sense now.
Why she said, under feet to the left.
So it was a woman in the window telling meshe's probably.
I don't know.
But to this day, I still am kicking myself for
not filming that.

Speaker A (52:22):
Oh, amazing.
That is an amazing experience.
I love that experience.
You said you had another one, too.

Speaker B (52:30):
Oh, at white Hill when the walkies went off.

Speaker C (52:36):
That was wild.

Speaker B (52:37):
That was wild.
That was that moment, like, where it's just
like, sheer fear.
You're like, what happened?
Like, don't always think paranormal.
When these things happen, you think of the
most logical thing.
So, like, where you are saying, okay, we're
sitting in the nursery.

(52:58):
He. We're sitting there just listening.
We like to just listen and make all of asudden jumps.
And I'm like, what do I do?How do I stop?

Speaker C (53:10):
My eyes were getting.
My eyes got really big.

Speaker D (53:13):
His eyes were, like, tearing up, like.

Speaker B (53:15):
You know, as if, like, he's like, I'm being choked.
Jackie helped me, and I don't even know whatto do.

Speaker D (53:21):
I'm just sitting there and I'm like, could you let go of, you know, like,
kind of like, yeah, yeah, let go.

Speaker B (53:29):
So then finally calmed down.
And then we start walking through the place
and he's.
He's calling out, who?
Choke me?Who choked me?
All of a sudden we heard we had walkies on ourset.
Like, but I had a walkie.
Mine was off.

Speaker D (53:45):
Hers was off.

Speaker B (53:46):
It was downstairs.

Speaker D (53:47):
And then I.

Speaker B (53:48):
She had hers on.

Speaker D (53:49):
I had mine on.
So we're walking through and you hear and we
literally stop dead.
And I'm like, and then.
And then right away you're like, we're stayinghere.

Speaker B (54:00):
Yeah.

Speaker D (54:00):
Like, in other words, you didn't want to, like, and then we're like.
And then we're just listening.

Speaker B (54:04):
And then you hear again.

Speaker D (54:06):
And then help come.
And we're all like.
And of course we're thinking, like, is.

Speaker B (54:12):
Somebody in the house? And they're using Nick's walking.
It was freaky.

Speaker D (54:17):
And we're like, okay, there's not really many houses near white Hill, so.
And who's going to get on a walkie at, like,1011 o'clock at night.

Speaker B (54:27):
In random New Jersey?

Speaker C (54:28):
Yeah, it's not even lit back there when you drive.

Speaker B (54:33):
And Erica wasn't even there.
So on the property, there's a trailer.
We rented it out.
It was just the three of us in that building.
Erica was in the trailer, but she went out toget pizza, so she wasn't even there.
So, like, your first thought is like, somebodyis downstairs with his walk, talking to us.

(54:54):
Somebody got in here.
That was my first thought.
And I never.
I was, like, beside myself.
And then you start piecing, and then you'relike, wait, there is no one here.

Speaker C (55:03):
No one's here.
The doors locked, gates locked.

Speaker B (55:06):
Yeah.

Speaker C (55:07):
The only ones in this.

Speaker B (55:08):
Yeah.

Speaker D (55:08):
And then somebody just says, help.
And then that was it.

Speaker B (55:11):
That was it.
And then actually, throughout the rest, during
the walk.
Again.

Speaker D (55:16):
Yeah.

Speaker B (55:16):
And just to point this out, John, like, there's other instances where you watch
these paranormal shows.
They have walking interference.

Speaker C (55:26):
I had it at Pennhurst.
I had a little girl come through with, like,
morse code.

Speaker B (55:35):
Yeah. So this happens.
This is like a common.
But it happens in the parent.
Yeah.
And that makes you realize, okay.
That logical conclusion that somebody broke
in, that that isn't what happened here.
Like, this is gotta be something paranormal.
Like, even my husband.
My husband is a great.
A skeptic.
This man doesn't even believe in God.

(55:55):
He does not.
He. I'll come home.
I'll tell.
Yeah.
Okay.
Like, we got to the point where we just have
this agreement.
We don't talk about it.
Like, I'll come home.
I'll say it was good, and that's the end of
it.
I came home and I told him about it.
And then we have a recording.
I think that could be in our file.
If not, it is.
It's on our social media.
But there is a recording.
Renee luckily had her phone running when that

(56:16):
walkie thing happened.
And I played it for my husband.
And even he was like, okay, well, yeah, Iguess.
Who would be on a walkie talkie at 11:00 atnight saying, help?
Like, who would have done that?

Speaker C (56:29):
Like, we're set to one channel.
How do they get into the channel that we have?
I understand it.
You know, it stretches out.

Speaker D (56:36):
But, I mean, like, there's no close.

Speaker C (56:40):
Like, there's surrounded by water.

Speaker D (56:41):
Yeah, it's surrounded by water.
There's no close neighboring houses there.

Speaker B (56:47):
It just didn't add up.

Speaker C (56:48):
It's off of, like, this main drag.
And there's like, an old motel and, like, an
old pizza shop and old diner.
And then you're Whitehill mansion.

Speaker D (56:54):
Yeah.

Speaker B (56:54):
Yeah.

Speaker D (56:55):
And you're looking crazy surrounded by, like, a wooded area.

Speaker B (57:02):
So, yeah, that was my moment.
That was wild.

Speaker D (57:05):
And we had children.

Speaker A (57:06):
That's absolutely crazy.
Wow, that is a great.
That is a great story.
I haven't heard anything like that.
That is awesome.
So before we get finish up here, one of the
things I wanted to ask you guys is you dopersonal investigations.
Like, if someone would come up to you, let'ssay it's me.
And I say, hey, Jackie, Nick, Renee, I thinkmy house is haunted.

(57:30):
I think there's an evil spirit in there.
It's really scaring my children.
Could you help?Do you guys do anything like that?

Speaker C (57:37):
I would like to.
I would like to start doing that.
It's just we don't really have the time.

Speaker D (57:42):
Right.

Speaker A (57:43):
Yeah, sure.
Sure.

Speaker C (57:46):
I had a more of a reschedule.

Speaker A (57:48):
Yeah.

Speaker C (57:49):
I mean, I got a phone call the other day, actually, from somebody warminster
who wants us.

Speaker B (57:52):
Oh, come check out case by case basis.
Obviously, you know, we're.
And I say this all the time, like, no one is
an expert on the criminal.
No one.
And if anyone thinks they're better than onegroup or the other, like, how can you be good
at.
How can you be better than one group over the

(58:12):
other or have this competition?We're dealing with something we don't even
understand.
So, I mean, really, we would just be coming
out to see if what you're saying is happeningis, like, if it's setting off our equipment,
then obviously there is.
There could be something going on.
But who are we to say one way or the otherwhat it is?
We don't even know what these things are.

Speaker A (58:32):
Right. Right.
That is.
That.
That's a great point, Jackie.
And one of the.
One of my episodes I had a medium on, and
she's also a scryer and everything.
And she told me, like, someone reached out to
her and said they had all these issues.
You know, they felt there was an evil presence
there.
And then when she started interviewing the
person, she found out they had, unfortunately,some mental issues.

(58:55):
And, you know, she was like, look, I can goout there and help you, but I think you should
seek therapy first and get your help andfigure out what's going on.
Because people don't understand.
Like with Poltergeist, for example.
Typically poltergeists.
And I don't know if you guys can tell a story
about this or not, but typically poltergeists.

(59:17):
From my research and talking to all my spooky
guests I've had on, I said, it's usually tiedto a dramatic event in the house.
Maybe some type of mental issue, somethinglike that.
It's not like a poltergeist just shows up inJackie's house and is like, I'm going to start
throwing teacups.
You know, it just doesn't work that way.

(59:39):
Maybe there's something between you and yourhusband or Nick or Renee.
Maybe you guys are having issues and you'resitting there and you bring them to the place.
Do you guys agree with that?To a certain point, I do.

Speaker C (59:52):
I do.

Speaker B (59:53):
I'm glad you brought that up because I'm actually in physician assistant
school, so obviously the medical side ofthings is what I learn about all the time.
And there's actually a really cool guy onInstagram.
He's called haunted MD. He is a. I think he'san emergency med doctor.
I love following him because he's brought upsome really interesting points.

(01:00:13):
And one of the things he brought up was, howdo you deduce whether or not this is, like, a
mental health issue or it's actually ahaunting?
And he's like, if more than one person isexperiencing the same thing at the same time,
then, you know, it's not just that person.
So I do like to point that out.
So, like, when we heard that little girl atPenn, her singing, there were.

Speaker D (01:00:34):
Twelve of us that, you know, you're not.

Speaker B (01:00:38):
It's not a figment of your imagination, or you're not having a
schizophrenic moment, or, you know, somethinglike that.
So I'm glad you pointed that out, because thatI do try to filter some of the things people
say through that lens.
Like, okay.
Like, you do have to keep that in the back ofyour mind, unfortunately, because those are.

(01:00:58):
Those can be manifestations of a mentalcrisis.

Speaker A (01:01:01):
Yeah. So, speaking of that, have you guys ever.
And, you know, it's just life, right?Maybe you had a bad day at work.
Maybe you had an argument with the hubby orthe wife or whatever like that.
By the way, I have to ask, are you guys allmarried?

Speaker D (01:01:19):
I'm okay.

Speaker A (01:01:21):
Okay. All right.
Nick, I don't mean to exclude you, but this
always cracks me up, because one time aparanormal investigator team said their
husband and wife, and they go out, you know,together, and they were getting into an
argument, and they were arguing aboutsomething, and they swore they heard on their
spirit box.
Shut up.

(01:01:45):
And so I have to ask, have you guys ever beenin an argument and, like.
No. I heard something.
No. Hey, what are you talking about?
And maybe a voice comes over and says, quiet,or whatever.
Like that.

Speaker D (01:02:00):
No, I mean, like, we'll hear our names come through.

Speaker A (01:02:03):
Oh, okay.

Speaker D (01:02:04):
Yeah. You know, Jackie and I have some video footage of our names being said at
Pennhurst and inside the infirmary building.

Speaker C (01:02:13):
Or you.
Mayflower.
Last year.

Speaker B (01:02:16):
Yeah.

Speaker D (01:02:16):
So, like, two springs ago, I did a photography tour at Pennhurst.
And it's like broad daylight, third floor,Mayflower building.
Setting up my camera.
There's people milling around, you know, other
photographers, and I don't know any else.
Anybody there?
Nick's outside.
Matt was outside.
And I just heard, hey, Renee.
I just heard my name.
And I kind of just was like, okay.

(01:02:39):
You know?

Speaker B (01:02:41):
Yeah, my name came through.

Speaker D (01:02:44):
Yeah.

Speaker A (01:02:45):
Wow. Yeah, right? That's crazy.
So if you guys don't mind.

Speaker B (01:02:54):
You hear your voice come through.
I mean, you feel like you're Jackie.

Speaker C (01:02:58):
Come through at Penn.
Hurts when we first met.

Speaker B (01:03:00):
Yes. Yeah. Oh.

Speaker D (01:03:01):
Close up.
Told her a closed mouth ***** first said,
jack.

Speaker C (01:03:06):
We were sitting on our third floor, and there's this little boy name.
This is William Fisher.
Ten.
He likes any woman.
No matter what you are, he likes women.
And he said, jackie.
I said, okay, can you say it again?
He says, jackie.
And she felt like she was being kissed.
And she's saying, I feel like, you know,someone's kissing me.

Speaker B (01:03:25):
You know, I felt wearing masks.
No, we were wearing masks during that.
And I felt like, all this, like, moisturearound my mouth.
And I looked.
I didn't say anything to the group.
I was looking at Renee.
And then I see your closed mouth, *****.
Yeah.
Come through the box.

Speaker D (01:03:41):
Yep.

Speaker A (01:03:42):
Wow. Jackie, I'm worried about you.
You've had bruises.
Ghosts are trying to make out with you.
I mean, Renee, you should be scared.
They're coming after you.
Dad.

Speaker D (01:03:56):
She'S had experience.
Like, I'm just.
I'm just kind of sitting back, like, allright.
I'm just.
I'm just waiting.
I know one.
It'll be my time, but maybe.

Speaker A (01:04:09):
That's unbelievable.
That freak me out.
I have to be completely honest.
If I felt that, that would be freaky.
Or the name thing is freaky enough.

Speaker B (01:04:19):
In isolation, you don't think about it being paranormal, but once everything
happens and plays out, you think, oh, that.
Like, that totally made sense now.
Like, and again, it could be uspsychologically filling in gaps.
I don't know, make of it what you will, but itmade sense to me that I was like, okay, that
was weird.

Speaker A (01:04:38):
Oh, that's crazy.
So, if you guys don't mind, I would just like
to take a few minutes.
I want to do a quick bucket list of wherever
you could go in the world and do a paranormalinvestigation.
I'm going to give you guys a couple of mine,and then you guys just however you guys want
to do it, you know, just tell me, you know,that's good.
Or, this is what I like.

(01:04:59):
Okay, you guys already know Lizzie Borden
house, so that's an easy one.
But Salem, that is one of my.
I want to go to the witch trials.
You know, where all that area is.
That is one of mine.
Of the Whaley house.
I love that, too.
And last but certainly not least, the magnolia

(01:05:22):
plantation.
So are you guys familiar?
Obviously, Salem, but are you familiar withthe Whaley and magnolia plantation?

Speaker B (01:05:29):
Yeah, I didn't know Magnolia was haunted.

Speaker A (01:05:33):
Oh, hella haunted.
Yeah, that's the one where you will see the
slave, where you would see the slave woman whopoisoned the entire family and killed the
entire family because she was having an affairwith the head of the household.
The father and the wife found out and wastrying to kill her, but didn't work.

(01:05:54):
It's this crazy big thing.
There's just like, you walk onto the
plantation and you see the rocking chairsmove.
I guess, Nick, you would.
Again, your mind would be blown because you
walk into the stables.
It's really haunted in there.
Her room you can sleep in.
It's really bad.
Really hella haunted.
And a lot of the people feel like their

(01:06:16):
stomach bothers them or they have troublebreathing and everything.
And then, of course, my last one forinternational is the suicide forest in Japan.
So how about you guys guys have a favoriteplace internationally in the states you would
like to visit and explore or do aninvestigation, I should say.

Speaker C (01:06:37):
Or theater.
I want to investigate that.

Speaker A (01:06:44):
Why.

Speaker C (01:06:50):
Ford theater is number one.
Myrtle's.
Yes, Myrtle's plantation.
I want to go there.

Speaker A (01:06:54):
Oh, sure.
That's another good one.

Speaker C (01:06:56):
I really want to go to anywhere in New Orleans.
I don't know where, but I just want it.
I want to see.

Speaker A (01:07:02):
Yeah, that's two good places, Renee.

Speaker D (01:07:06):
So I guess just quickly, off the top of my head, I really want to go to the
Ballistica house and Sally house.

Speaker B (01:07:14):
There we go.

Speaker D (01:07:15):
Like, you know, short term goal, right?
Long term.
I don't know, somewhere over in, like, maybe
the UK, like Scotland or.

Speaker A (01:07:23):
Oh, sure.

Speaker D (01:07:24):
I'm not familiar with a lot of, like, the haunted stuff over there.
I probably should, you know, get burst on thatread off, because I know there's some pretty
good places over there.
Yeah, definitely down south, but New Orleans
to Savannah, Georgia.
I want to get down there.

Speaker A (01:07:42):
Oh, Savannah's awesome.

Speaker D (01:07:44):
Yeah, definitely, Jackie.

Speaker B (01:07:48):
Well, like she said, short term, definitely ballistica and Sally House.
Thank you, project fear, for giving that idea.
I actually luckily did go to Scotland for a
wedding, and there happened to be a cemeteryon the property and a couple girls I was there
with.
Come on, get your.
Like, I brought my gear with me, and they'relike, come on, let's go to the cemetery.

(01:08:11):
So we go, and I forget that I turn on myspirit box, and I was at the grave of this one
person, and it said, get out now.
And the girl I was with who never had done any
of this before, looked at me, and she's like,I heard that.
I heard that.
And I'm like, all right, we're done here.

(01:08:33):
We're done here.
So that, unfortunately, when I've gone abroad,
I haven't been able to actually do a properinvestigation.
But I would love to go back to Scotland orIreland and do, like, proper investigating.
And then I guess one other one for me would belike, the queen.
I was the Queen Mary.
I've heard some good things about it.

(01:08:54):
So.

Speaker A (01:08:57):
Yeah, if you're.
If you're going to the Queen Mary, the
Winchester mansion is near there.

Speaker B (01:09:03):
I went there when 15.
My grandfather took me there before I got into
any of this.
So I remember, vaguely remember it, but I
would love.
Yeah, I would love to go back there.

Speaker C (01:09:13):
Just explore it.

Speaker B (01:09:15):
Yeah.

Speaker A (01:09:16):
Yeah. And it's in a weird place.
So I've been out.
I've traveled all over the country, business.
And I remember I was driving past.
I'm just driving past, and I have my gps on,and it says Winchester mansion.
Because I said it to Winchester mansion, Imust be near here.
And I look, and there's this, like, this housein the middle of, like, this business

(01:09:37):
district.
It's, like, really weird.
It's like, you think it'd be, like, off inthese fields, you know, and be like, you know.
No, it's just right.
Right downtown.
That's what it is.
Totally out of place.
So, guys, tell me what you guys have coming upfor my spooky friends.

(01:09:58):
What investigations?What can they check out?
Because I will put all your social media linksout for them to check out and see what's going
on.

Speaker B (01:10:07):
Well, I think we're in the process of planning our next trip, so I'm in school,
so we have to kind of plan this around when Ihave a break.
So, end of May, we are talking about doing notone, but two nights at Lizzie Borden.
So we're going to try something new.
Going forward is more than one night in the
same location to maximize our.

Speaker D (01:10:26):
Chances of getting, like, a lot of activity.

Speaker A (01:10:29):
Yeah.

Speaker B (01:10:30):
Yeah.

Speaker D (01:10:30):
It's tough.
Like, some of these, like, just one nighters,
you know, something like hit or miss.

Speaker B (01:10:35):
Five, 6 hours, you don't get enough time.
I mean, we went to conjuring house.
That one night there.
I mean, it was all right, but it's like, Idon't.
I think you get the sense that there was morethat house could have offered you if you had
been able to stay longer.
So, anyway, we are gonna try that going
forward.
And so keep a look on.
Look out for that.
We're on Instagram.

(01:10:55):
We're on TikTok experimentparanormal.
I know that's a mouthful and hard to spell,
but it's what we came up with.
We have a Facebook.

Speaker C (01:11:05):
We do a Facebook.

Speaker B (01:11:06):
Unfortunately, we don't have a YouTube or anything.
Like I said, we don't have time.

Speaker D (01:11:10):
To edit and, like, do all that kind of stuff, but we do go.

Speaker B (01:11:12):
Live when we're at.
So if you want to see raw, unedited footage,
it's on there.
It's on our Instagram.

Speaker D (01:11:19):
And then we're also trying to, at some point, plan a trip to.

Speaker B (01:11:26):
Later this year or sometime next year.

Speaker A (01:11:30):
I love that.
I will.
My spooky friends, I will put all their stuffout there.
This was an amazing conversation.
I could talk to you guys for hours because you
guys are just.
This is crazy.
I've never heard some of these stories again.
That's why I love paranormal investigators.
You guys always have different stories,different ways of doing anything.
And if you promised me to come back on theshow when you have more investigations, I

(01:11:53):
would love that you could talk about that.

Speaker B (01:11:56):
Yeah.

Speaker D (01:11:57):
Thank you so much for having us.

Speaker A (01:11:59):
Oh, yeah.
I'm glad I found you, too.
You guys are awesome.
I love you guys.
One of the things before, I don't know if yourhouse is haunted.
Any one of your house is haunted.
No.
Yeah.

Speaker C (01:12:15):
You getting vibes?

Speaker B (01:12:16):
Are you getting vibes?

Speaker A (01:12:17):
I'm getting vibes.
So what we always say to end every show is we
say hi to your ghost.
Hello, ghost.
Because you know I have a ghost, right?Gotta be friendly to them or her.
And we say, stay spooky.
So thank you so much.
Love you guys and look forward to having youback on.

Speaker C (01:12:35):
Thank you.
Have a good one.

Speaker D (01:12:37):
Take care.