October 26, 2025 • 49 mins
Welcome back to Dairyland Frights! Host John Radtke is joined once again by the ever-insightful Deborah from Paranormal Paradigma — a gifted medium, healer, and spiritual guide — for a fascinating and empowering dive into the legends of vengeful women in folklore and what these stories reveal about the dark feminine, trauma, and transformation.
From Japan’s Kuchisake-Onna (The Slit-Mouthed Woman) to La Llorona and the White Lady of Europe, Deborah unpacks how cultures worldwide have created ghostly figures of women betrayed, silenced, and transformed by pain — and how those myths reflect real human wounds that still haunt us today.
Together, John and Deborah explore:
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💀 The truth behind the Kuchisake-Onna sightings that terrified Japan in 1979
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🌙 Why spirits linger when trauma and emotion go unhealed
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🕯️ How society’s fear of the feminine created centuries of ghost stories
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🧿 The spiritual meaning behind “Am I beautiful?” — and what it really asks of us
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💫 Deborah’s approach to subconscious healing through mediumship, and how shadow work can transform pain into purpose
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⚡ Why the paranormal is really about the unknown within ourselves
This episode blends folklore, psychology, and spirituality into one eerie yet uplifting conversation — perfect for your Halloween week playlist.
🧙♀️ About the Guest:Deborah (Paranormal Paradigma) is a psychic medium, healer, and content creator helping others reconnect with their subconscious, heal deep emotional wounds, and discover their purpose. 🌐 Website: @paranormalparadigma 📺 YouTube: Paranormal Paradigma 💬 Offering: Medium readings, subconscious healing, and shadow-work sessions
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker A (00:00):
Foreign.
Welcome to Dairyland Frights, the paranormalpodcast that covers everything spooky, creepy,
and mysterious in the Midwest and beyond.
(00:22):
And today,
boy,
every time I can have her on the show,
she's beautiful.
Bootiful.
I'm trying to use bootiful.
And she's spooktacular.
How you like that, Deborah?
And you know,
every time I can have her on the show isamazing because she's so smart, so funny.
(00:49):
She just really has some great stuff.
Every time she comes on the show,
she.
If you don't know her,
please get to know her,
because not only is she a medium, but a healerand, you know,
born Paradigma. She's on YouTube.
She does some great clips, by the way.
(01:10):
She's also on Instagram and other sites.
You can see her.
And that is Deborah.
Welcome, Deborah.
Speaker B (01:18):
Thank you, John. I'm always so excited to be on here, and you always give me,
like, the greatest, like, welcomeintroduction.
So I'm really excited.
Thank you.
Speaker A (01:25):
You, it is so easy to do.
There are some people that I just love to have
back on the show, and you are one of them andeverything.
Speaker B (01:36):
Thank you.
Speaker A (01:37):
And, you know, again, we have so much fun together.
And our, our episodes do so well.
You know, anytime I get, like I said, anexcuse to get you on here and talk, a little
spookiness and a little,
you know, other things to deal with theparanormal and,
and other things to deal with, maybe portalsand stuff.
(01:58):
Hey, I love it.
So, you know, this is a treat for me.
Speaker B (02:03):
Yes.
Speaker A (02:04):
And, and here's the thing.
I want to first catch up with Deborah.
What's been going on in your world other than
you told me you were yet a sick kid?We will not talk about that.
You talk about what's going on.
Paranormal, pigment, medium, stuff like that.
Speaker B (02:22):
Yeah. So, I mean, I,
I,
I am, I'm so lucky.
Like, I feel like I'm so grateful.
That's what I feel.
I feel very grateful because every time that I
come on this show, I feel like I havesomething new to share or I have some sort of
new experiences or I've leveled up in somesort of way,
(02:44):
and it just, it keeps happening.
I am going strong with my own,
I guess, journey and my own abilities andthings like that.
They themselves are evolving, which is crazy.
And not only that, it's being reflected in my,
in my little business that I have where I do.
Not only do I do medium readings, obviously,
(03:06):
but I do healing sessions.
Right.
So now I'm focusing more on doing subconscioushealing through mediumship.
And that seal been essentially like Growing,like, it's.
It's a steady, like, increase thing wherereally impressed.
And I mean.
I mean, even I'm impressed with the things
(03:26):
that I know and can do and how I can access,like, subconscious thoughts and wounds and
pains and truths and then help individualsalso access these and allow them to sort of
transmute these pains and fears into their ownpower and kind of just embody and start to
align with
their purpose. And I've been.
(03:48):
See, I've been seeing clients for months now,
and just like, I can't even describe howthey've grown.
I. I really.
It's almost like I need them to have
testimonials so that they themselves can tellyou.
Yeah. And even in that, I've seen my ownclients develop medium and spiritual or
psychic gifts, and I'm just like, holy ****.
(04:10):
And so that's the power of subconscious
healing.
You can tap into your own truth and your owngifts.
And that's now what I've been doing.
And I just.
Who would have thought, John, that I'd behere?
Not me, but here I am.
Speaker A (04:22):
Yeah. And again, you know, I've had Deborah on several times, and to see the
growth from you, Deborah.
Speaker B (04:30):
Thank you.
Speaker A (04:31):
Oh, my God.
Blows me away.
So go back and listen to older episodes.
Me and Deborah were just getting to know each
other,
and she was so nice to come onto my show,
a podcast earlier on, we didn't really knoweach other,
but if you.
If you listen to each episode we've been on,
(04:52):
we've grown closer and she's grown strongerand.
And just helping people and talking aboutdifferent things about, you know,
her career as well as, you know, what she'strying to grow as a medium and a healer and
stuff.
And that really help people,
(05:12):
especially in this world.
And I know this is not.
We'll get to the spooky stuff, folks.
So just, you know, I just want to keep
praising Deborah so she gets a big head.
But anyway,
and so again, when you listen to this, youknow, take the opportunity, you know, just,
you know, get on, you know, DM or get onInstagram,
(05:35):
make a comment on YouTube on her video andstuff, she's gotten some really, like I said,
great videos and some great views.
Please comment.
You know, that's something you're goingthrough.
It's something you just need Deborah just to,I don't know, talk about.
Or. Or maybe you're like, I think I have agift.
You know, Great.
Reach out, see what's going on.
(05:56):
So awesome.
I'm just so proud of you.
And Just so happy that you continue to steady
growth and I can't say enough about muchsuccess that I want you to have.
So there you go.
Speaker B (06:10):
Thank you.
I really appreciate that.
And I really think that those lovely thoughtsand, you know, prayers or wishes go a long
way.
So I really appreciate it.
Speaker A (06:21):
Yeah. And I don't know if we'll get into it, but I had a dream about Deborah.
But we'll probably have to put that on aPatreon app.
Speaker B (06:29):
Yeah, that.
Oh, that'd be a good idea.
Yes, that is definitely Patreon worthycontent.
Speaker A (06:39):
You're gonna have to pay for that, folks.
You have to pay for that, folks.
Hilarious.
No, no, it was, it was, it was fun.
It was great.
So anyway, the reason we are here tonight,Deborah suggested some,
how do I say?
Not agitated.
What. What do you want to say about these,these women?
Speaker B (07:01):
Scorned.
They've been scorned.
Scorned.
Speaker A (07:05):
Scorned women.
Scorned.
Speaker B (07:06):
Scorn.
Scorn.
Speaker A (07:07):
Scorn.
Yes.
So Deborah, we're just gonna have fun with ittonight.
She.
She has some women that maybe you want a
little avoid or if you do meet them,
maybe be nice to them.
I don't know, I, you know, but they're out
there and if they're out there, meet them justto be very careful.
(07:27):
So, Deborah,
however you want to do it, you want to take itaway and start with the first one and kind of
give our audience about what we're talkingabout.
Speaker B (07:35):
Yes. So really I kind of.
We were talking about what we should talk
about and you know, creatures and things likethat.
I was like, you know, it'd be reallyinteresting to sort of put a focus or a
spotlight on these vengeful,
scorned female spirits that haunt the lore ofso many different countries and, you know,
(08:00):
cultures and things like that.
And the spirits that.
Or the spirit really, that really drew myattention was the Kuchiware Onna or Kuchisake
Onna as it goes by different names dependingon the region.
And she kind of stood out to me because it's aspirit that I'm not as familiar with, but yet
(08:23):
follows the same sort of archetype or tropethat a lot of these,
you know, women that been betrayed or havebetrayed that have been scorned or hurt or
have some sort of trauma and then they kind ofreappear to haunt us in, in,
in this life.
So growing up Latina, right.
(08:44):
Everybody knows about La Llorona, right?Like that is the first female spirit that you
learn about that,
you know, haunts the towns, I guess, or thecountry, and cries out for her children and
obviously can become a not very nice spirit,depending on how you proceed.
(09:08):
So,
and this is something that it happens a lot indifferent countries.
When I lived in the Dominican Republic, therewas a spirit, spirit or creature, however you
want to call it known as La Siwapa.
And this was also another beautiful woman.
And she lived in the country, like in themountains, I think.
And she.
(09:28):
What was creepy about her is that she had likea forward, forward facing torso,
but like backward facing legs.
And so she walked all weird.
And then she would apparently lure people tolike their death and things like that.
But there is some sort, I can't remember thestory, like why she became the way she was.
(09:50):
But it's this idea that like these trauma,like these women who suffer these very painful
trauma, especially with love, whether that belove of their children like La Llorona, or
love of another, like what we're going to seewith the Kuchisake onna, like of a romantic
partner, this trauma and this pain kind oflingers and it's something that doesn't allow
(10:16):
them to really just move forward.
And so what they do is they kind of stay inthis realm and haunt in the liminal spaces.
And some people get to see them live and tellthe tales.
So I just kind of wanted to focus on that.
Speaker A (10:34):
Yeah.
So why do you think that this, that we.
It took tales of women being, you know,
it's kind of like in today's world where, youknow, you break up with someone and you go,
you cry and you eat some Haagen Dazs and you,you know what I mean, you sit on the couch.
(10:55):
But then there are different where it mightlead to more serious things.
Do you think the culture back then looked atwomen like.
And I know this was true to a certain point.
Women got married very, very young,
12, 14 years old.
Part of that was because of lifespan, right?
(11:18):
Because typically people in the Middle Agesand so on and so forth were not living until
60, 70, 80 years old.
They might be living to 20 or 30.
So if you wanted to start a family and startedearly.
But for older women and old,
(11:38):
back in that day, Middle Ages and stuff was 20or 30, they were looked at like, almost
shunned,
you know what I mean?Like, what's wrong with you?
There has to be something wrong with you.
Do you think that contributed to these stories
of like women who were,
who were in these situations and then storiesevolved around them to make people scared?
(12:06):
Like,
you know, if You.
Speaker B (12:08):
If you.
Speaker A (12:08):
This happens to you, this is.
You're going to turn into, I don't know, a
terrible witch or spirit or demon orsomething.
Speaker B (12:16):
Yeah. The thing about these stories is that sort of laced between all the lore and
the embellishment is.
Right, right.
And so I think these stories are, in a way,testaments of how the culture for so long now
has viewed and treated the feminine.
(12:39):
And I'm not going to say women per se, but
just like the feminine archetype or thefeminine energy.
So we'll.
We'll stick with that.
And for a long time, unfortunately,
this has been a very silenced or subduedsuppressed idea or archetype.
Right,
right.
(12:59):
And then.
So we have that.
Then we have.
On a deeper level, when you do this to thefeminine.
Right.
When you do this to this archetype, what
people don't understand is that thisarchetype, the feminine archetype, is linked
to our subconscious, which is also there's alink to the.
Our emotions.
Now, what is the truth in all this?
(13:21):
Like, why is this so important?
And some of the truth in these.
In this lore is like, oh, the idea that if,
you know, somebody becomes angry or dies withpain or whatever,
it lingers.
Well, that's because it does.
Right.
Speaker A (13:36):
Yeah.
Speaker B (13:37):
That is actually truth.
Right. That is truth.
And anything that lingers, haunts.
It doesn't really matter if it's dead or not.
Like, if, you know, you have somebody, like,
let's say you.
When you're in a relationship and you're in a
relationship with somebody who's constantlycodependent and doesn't want to do the work
(13:57):
and,
you know, wants to blame everything else andis constantly a victim that's haunting you.
Do you understand?Like, that's already haunting.
So anything that lingers, haunts.
And so we're now talking about,
you know,
millennia of stories of the same sort of ideathat this pain we suffer, this pain in life,
(14:21):
maybe we die with it or we die some sort oftraumatic way, and it haunts even in the
afterlife.
And that's true, because what people don'tunderstand is that whatever happens here in
this life you take with you.
You don't magically get absolved of all your
problems and all your sins and all yourwrongdoings and all your pain.
You gotta kind of work with it and work on itin the next life, too.
(14:44):
And if you don't, well, then that festers andthat lingers and.
And there we have now a haunting ghost.
Do you understand?
Speaker A (14:50):
Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker B (14:51):
Sort of.
Speaker A (14:52):
Absolutely.
That's so that's a great explanation.
Speaker B (14:55):
Thanks.
So that's why I thought that it'd be really
interesting to focus on women.
Just because we are the.
Out of the two sexes, we are the.
The ones that just gets.
Gets this short end of the stick oftentimes.
And, you know,
for many things. But I. And it's also.
(15:15):
But on a bigger scale, the reason for this is
because silencing or sub or suppressing thefeminine energy also suppresses us as souls,
which is something that we could probably talkabout on another podcast.
But there is a link between the subconsciousand the soul, and us not really evolving or
developing into our purpose or, like, cominginto our purpose because of said suppression,
(15:39):
which is then linked to the femininearchetype.
But again, that is another story.
So with that said, I guess the answer to your
question is,
well, yeah, there is some truth.
And then other stuff has been obviously
embellished with this.
And they try to make women or just like
anything to make you look scary and hauntingand spooky and just create fear.
(16:02):
Yeah. So it is what it is, but it's still fun.
Absolutely. And also, I think there's always alesson to be learned in any of these stories
about our humanity and our body, our moralityor society or ethics.
Yeah, things like that.
Like, there's definitely deeper,
I guess,
themes to explore.
Speaker A (16:23):
Yes, absolutely.
Awesome.
Speaker B (16:27):
Okay, I'm excited.
All right, so when it comes to this, I did do
sort of like research and then laced with AI.
So let's see what happens.
Speaker A (16:38):
Here we go.
Speaker B (16:38):
Yeah, we're gonna just do it.
But I'm really excited, so I'm gonna.
I'm gonna go into my podcast Persona and we'regonna tell a bit of a story as you hear all
the commotion.
Are we ready?
Speaker A (16:51):
We are ready.
Speaker B (16:53):
All right, Perfect.
All right,
so this is about the legend or the myth, or assome will say, that the reality of the
existence of the Kuchisake Onna.
They say that she waits at the corner of a
lonely street.
A woman in a long coat, face hidden behind asurgical mask.
She steps toward you, her voice barely above awhisper.
(17:16):
Watashi wa kirei?Am I beautiful?
And if you say yes, she removes her mask andyou see it, a smile carved from ear to ear on
her face.
And she asks again, even now.
And what you say next determines if you live
or not.
And so we're gonna descend into this legend
and the spirit of the Kuchisake Onna, or theslit mouthed woman.
(17:40):
So in classical Japanese folklore, there aretwo great classes of Supernatural beings.
Actually, there's more, but they kind of focuson the onryo, vengeful spirits of the dead
consumed by rage and sorrow.
And the yokai, the creatures of mystery,shapeshifters and tricksters born from the
imagination of the living.
The Kuchisake Onna, they say, belongs to both.
(18:01):
Her name translates literally to the Slit
Mouthed woman,
though in other regions, as I've said, she'salso called the Kuchiware Onna, or the Broken
Mouthed woman.
But her story begins not in the city streets
of modern Japan, but it begins long ago in theEdo period or Edo period, which was somewhere
between the 1600s and 1860s in Japan.
(18:23):
So let us imagine.
Once she was a woman of rare beauty, married
to a powerful samurai.
Lonely and perhaps a little too admired, she
sought affection elsewhere.
When her husband discovered her betrayal, his
honor curdled into fury.
He drew his katana and struck across hermouth.
Who will think you're beautiful now?Her blood mixed with moonlight, and her life
(18:46):
ended.
But her rage did not.
She rose, a spirit bound by betrayal andshame,
wandering between worlds, hiding her mutilatedface behind a silk form mask, searching
endlessly for someone who would still call herbeautiful.
Now that's how this is all started.
But the really interesting thing about this is
that there have been sightings.
(19:06):
And in 1979, there was a very well documentedand recorded incident or event that kind of
shook the nation.
So in spring of 1978, actually in the GifuPrefecture, an elderly woman was tending her
garden at dusk.
But she saw something.
She saw a tall, masked figure standingsilently at the edge of her yard.
(19:30):
Well, thing is that word travels fast,especially in small communities.
And by morning, the story was in thenewspaper.
Some reports that the gardener, the elderlywoman,
saw the woman with the mask.
But others report that she saw the woman
without the mask, and she saw the slitted sortof smile on the face.
By the next year.
(19:51):
So now in 1979, Japan was in full blown panic.
Children whispered of a ghost in a red coat, a
mask, and she carried scissors.
Schools were sent warnings going home.
Police patrols followed children as theywalked.
Some refused to leave school without herparents, because now people were also
reporting sightings at schools in Tokyo.
One man claimed that he met her,
(20:14):
this woman, outside a subway station.
And she asked him softly,
watashi Wakire.
And he left nervously and turned away.
But when he heard her footsteps behind him iswhen he realized that they were not echoes,
but pursuit.
And then he ran.
No one was killed in these sightings orreports,
but Definitely the entire nation feltcompletely haunted and it shook them.
(20:38):
So it's interesting that for me, at least, howa simple ghost sighting can turn the whole
nation of Japan upside down.
And not too long ago, I mean, this was likethe late 70s, 1979, like, that was only a few.
I was born 86.
(20:58):
So like, that was just a few years before I
was born.
So this was somewhat 40 years ago or somethingmore than.
For a little more than 40 years.
Over 40 years ago.
That wasn't that long ago.
So this is modern society, essentially.
Do you understand?This is not something that happened in like
the 1800s.
Speaker A (21:16):
Exactly, yeah.
Speaker B (21:17):
So it just, it goes.
And it kind of shows you that testimony, it
can be very powerful thing, even thoughoftentimes it gets scoffed at, but especially
within the paranormal, it's really all that wehave and all we can go by.
And if a lot of people see the same thing,then I don't think it's really just testimony
(21:37):
at that point.
I think at that point it lends itself to some
sort of evidence, some sort of data.
The only problem is that because it's notrecorded, then, you know, it all goes to ****.
But,
you know, you know, science at its best.
But here we are.
So the thing about this figure is that there'sobviously more occult or esoteric spiritual
(22:01):
significance or symbolism behind that.
So I was wondering if maybe we can go
somewhere in that.
Because on the surface, Kuchisake Onna's sortof a ghost story, right?
Speaker A (22:10):
Yeah.
Speaker B (22:10):
But spiritually she's something again, much deeper.
Speaker A (22:15):
Okay. Yes.
Speaker B (22:16):
So the thing about the Kuchisake Onna, it's that there's a lot more.
There's deeper meaning, especially on anoccult or esoteric or even spiritual level.
So on the surface, the Kuchisake Onna is aghost story, but spiritually, she's something
deeper.
A reflection of an unhealed collection.
Sorry, a reflection of an unhealed collectivetrauma, a mirror of wounds society refuses to
(22:41):
see.
Her appearance at dusk marks her as being of
liminal spaces, which oftentimes so manybeings appear in these liminal spaces, because
that's essentially where a lot of thesethresholds are.
It's a threshold space.
So that's why they're so common.
Her mask is more than a disguise.
It's the boundary between the outer beauty andher inner suffering.
(23:04):
And it hides what culture does not want toface the pain of women, silence, shamed or
objectified.
And in a cult thought, what is repressedfesters.
And when enough people share that Repression,it becomes part of the collective and it gains
power.
And when she appears at dusk in these sort of,
like, liminal spaces,
it's also seen as a way of the unknown or ofthe unseen leaking through our reality and
(23:31):
sort of trying to give us a glimpse of thetruth of our world.
So I think it's just.
There's just so much there to unpack because,
again, we're talking about now the greatersort of more archetypal energies.
Because she's definitely not alone as a.
As, you know, vengeful or scorned or betrayedspirit across centuries and continents.
(23:57):
Other women also walk this sort of space withher.
In Japan, there's a. There's another beingcalled the oiwa.
If I pronounced that wrong, I'm so sorry.
From the Yotsuya Kaidan.
So basically, it's a woman who was poisoned,disfigured and betrayed by her husband and
still haunts him, or haunts, I guess, men.
(24:19):
There's also the Hannya, or the mask of
jealousy.
So this is often used to portray women or, Imean, the feminine.
The feminine is specifically consumed byeither jealousy or rage.
And so the mask grows horns and fangs as a wayto depict this.
There's also the Yuki Onna, the Snow Woman,
(24:39):
who's actually beautiful, but very deadly asshe freezes people to their death.
Okay,
yeah.
There's, like I said, La Llorona, the whippingwoman of Latin America, drowns her children
and forever searches for them by theriverbanks.
The White lady of Europe, a ghost in white whoappears after the betrayal or death, after
(25:00):
betrayal or death, haunting castles andcrossroads.
And each of these women, or each of thesefigures, and there's just so many across,
you know, all of this, all of history.
And we're not just talking about modern
history.
We're just, you know, you go back into the
myths and the folklore and the cultures ofwomen, even.
Even, like Lilith, like in the Bible, youunderstand?
(25:22):
Although I don't know if she's actually in theBible.
But the story of Lilith, you know, is onethat's also very common of this theme of the.
Of a sort of a woman that was outcasted orexiled or not accepted or something, you know,
too seductive or too dark about her, youunderstand?
And this is a womb that we all carry.
And in each, in our own ways, it's sort ofasking the same question, you know, do you see
(25:47):
me?Do you accept me?
Can you.
Can you handle me?
In my best and in my worst, even in, like, myhappiest and in My sorrow, my lightest, and in
my darkness.
And this is something that obviously a lot ofpeople, and not just women, like, a lot of
people ask,
like, can you hold me in my best spaces?And also in my not so best spaces.
And if you really think about it, all thesestories are stories of when someone couldn't
(26:11):
handle them in their darkest moments and kindof shunned that part of them completely.
And so now we've learned to shun those partsof us as well.
But like I said, like the spiritual.
Yes.
Speaker A (26:23):
That's the way,
you know, you know what that goes reminds meof a lot is witches.
So, like back in 1800, 1700s, whatever youwant to say, if your crops are failing, if
you're having issues.
Speaker B (26:42):
You.
Speaker A (26:42):
Know, and there's this older woman down the road and she's creepy and she's a
little weird and stuff.
Yeah,
that she must.
That's the one.
Not that I'm a poor farmer.
Not that I know.
You know what I mean?
Not that I'm having problems,
of course.
That I'm lazy or what?
(27:03):
No, no, no, it's that.
It's that person.
And the Salem witch trials.
That's a whole different podcast.
Sorry to go off a little tangent here for you.
Speaker B (27:13):
No, that's not.
Speaker A (27:13):
But that all started when teenage girls said, hey,
I'm not sure I like these people,
and these are a little weird,
you know,
And I think they're witches because they do X,Y or Z,
you know, or do this act or do that act orwhatever.
And you know what's funny?Funny?
(27:35):
Nothing has changed.
Think about when you were in high school,
and not to the point, hopefully in your highschool, you were not hung or burned at the
stake.
Speaker B (27:45):
Right.
Speaker A (27:46):
That's when we got a problem.
But you know what I mean,
if you were in school or just you'restruggling, you know, at school.
Oh, it's because of that girl.
She's weird.
And I think she.
She does this or she does that.
And I think these stories, what they do embodyis the kids.
This is our way to kind of deal with that.
(28:09):
You know what I mean?
You know, kind of these women have certainstrength and certain powers, but we're dealing
with it in an extremely negative way.
We're not dealing with them like they have.
I don't know, you see the slip mouth woman andyou say she looks pretty and, you know, your
(28:30):
life turns great or something.
You know what I mean?
Speaker B (28:33):
Right.
Speaker A (28:34):
It's about.
It's about that.
That we want to somehow, again, this isdifferent.
Podcast of,
you know, demean and show that, you know, thisis the reason why she had her mouth slit is
because she was doing this indiscretion, notbecause maybe her husband was this big jerk
(28:57):
and not, you know,
not loved her or anything.
You know what I mean?
So I just think out comes those stories toothat we want to say,
okay, these women are this way.
And also to teach a lesson, like you said,
you know, which I just find fascinatingbecause you don't typically in male stories,
(29:18):
right.
You know, like Jack the Ripper or somethinglike that, it's typically there.
They're murderers, they're killers.
Speaker B (29:25):
You know what I mean? Yeah.
It's like they're.
They're the.
They're the instigator, they're the culprit,they're the.
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker A (29:32):
There's not, there's not.
We're not, I shouldn't say putting blame or
whatever, but it's just black and white.
They're just killer, they're insane.
So they kill and that's it.
You know, there isn't anything associated with
it other than they're just cold bloodedkiller.
And so I just find that interesting, that kindof the dichotomy of these stories versus, you
(29:56):
know, a ghost story where they talk about,like I said, about maybe there's a haunted man
with a hook on his hand and he killed, I don'tknow, the generic three teenagers,
you know what I mean, in that house,
because he's insane.
But these women,
there's a whole different,
(30:17):
you know, I don't know, layers of different,
why they do the things they do and what'sassociated with that and how when you meet
them, what happens.
I just find that fascinating.
Speaker B (30:31):
Right,
Because I think that what these.
So obviously the archetype of the masculineand the feminine is different and it's for a
reason.
But that question that you pose about, oh,
when you meet them, you know, what's thelesson?
It's because the feminine, whether you like itor not, is there to heal.
It is a very healing archetype.
(30:52):
And so.
And it's also because it is feminine, it'sassociated with the darkness.
And darkness is one of these things that forcenturies has been sort of correlated with
evil or,
you know, scary.
You know,
like you said witchcraft and Satan and likeall these like spooky things, but that's not
(31:16):
necessarily true.
Darkness in essence is in the unknown.
And the unknown is.
Is fear.
There's fear in the unknown, you understand?
So these types of stories kind of also arethere to Help you face that, help you kind of
face the fear, face the unknown,
(31:36):
ask the questions, go deeper.
Because it's supposed to be healing.
There's supposed to be something there for youto unlock and for you to face so that you can
level up.
If that makes sense.
Speaker A (31:47):
Yes, absolutely makes sense.
Speaker B (31:51):
Which is why they've.
These sort of stories and archetypes have been
around for centuries, you understand?And if you look at women, even women in, in
the goddesses and the gods too, like thesegoddesses have these double personalities.
They can be just as healing and beautiful andabundant and gorgeous and then all of a sudden
(32:13):
destructive and territorial and jealous andyou know, everything because it's both,
because we are both.
There is no like, oh, I'm supposed to be thislike perfect person all the time.
The point isn't to be light all the time.
The purpose is to be whole.
And in order for you to be whole, you need tobe authentic.
(32:34):
And that means encompassing and embodying boththe dark and the light and seeing what the
balance looks like within you.
And some of these stories is sort of like awarning as to what can happen if you don't do
that, if you don't honor that darkness, if youdon't face the fear, if you kind of hold onto
the pain and you don't release these traumasor, or transmute this,
(32:56):
this is what can happen.
That's the scary part.
That's where the fear is coming from.
And all these scary stories is because of all
this pain and fear and doubt and on securityand all these things that people don't want to
let go of.
So then it festers and it lingers and ithaunts and people don't like things that
fester and linger and haunts because.
Yeah, things.
Speaker A (33:17):
Yeah, that makes complete sense.
Yeah, I love it.
Speaker B (33:21):
Thank you.
So basically the slit mouth woman is more than
just a girl.
She's like, it's part of an archetype
essentially at this point it's part of theshadow, right?
The shadow side of the divine feminine.
In ancient times, goddesses like Inanna,Lilith and Kali embodied both beauty and
destruction, creation and death.
And but as centuries pass, society split these
powers apart.
(33:42):
Light from dark, saint, sinner, goddess from
ghost.
And what could not be sanctified becamedemonized.
Speaker A (33:48):
Right.
Speaker B (33:50):
So true.
And so the goddess of the shadow returned to
the spirit of vengeance.
The Kuchisake Onna is the modern embodiment of
that exile.
She is the face of pain that refuses to be
hidden.
The divine feminine returning monstrous formto demand to demand recognition and even, to a
certain extent, retribution.
Her question, am I beautiful?
Is not about vanity.
It's a spiritual challenge.
(34:10):
Can you love what is broken?Can you see the divine even in what terrifies
you?And when we answer truthfully, not with
flattery or fear, but with awareness, thelegend says, she vanishes because again, laced
with truth, spirit honors authenticity, spirithonors truth.
Symbolically, this means that when we face theshadow without running, when we acknowledge
(34:31):
the wounds beneath the mask, the hauntingends.
In our world today, a world obsessed withperfection, filters, and appearances, the
spirit of the Kuchisake Onna still walks amongus,
but not as a ghost on the street, but as thequiet pain of women or men told to smile
through their suffering, as the silence traumaof those who hide their scars behind polite
masks.
(34:51):
Yet there is power here because the darkfeminine is awakening again.
From the temples of Kali to the circles ofHecate,
the women reclaiming Lilith, and to artistsembracing the shadow and the forgotten
goddesses that are being remembered.
With them returns home wholeness, the truth.
That darkness is not evil, that pain cantransform,
(35:11):
that beauty is not perfection, but presence.
So the next time that you hear the question,am I beautiful?
Watashi wa kirei, may you answer not fromfear, but from truth.
Yes, you are.
You're more than you know.
You are dark and you are light.
You are whole.
So that is that love.
Speaker A (35:29):
That. That's awesome.
I'll remember that.
Speaker B (35:34):
Yes, do remember that, please.
You are whole.
You are a whole *** being.
Speaker A (35:41):
Exactly.
And that's a great.
Yeah, like you said, that's a great lesson.
And that's something that,
you know, we can carry from in our life andeverything like that, because again,
it's, you know, it's hard out there, andsometimes people just need to hear,
you know,
you're beautiful.
You know, whether you think you're not you,you are, you know, and you're strong and
(36:06):
everything.
And, yeah, I think that's a great, greatlesson.
I love it.
Speaker B (36:09):
Thank you.
So that was the Kuchisake Onna, the YoronaSiguapa, the white woman, all of these women,
all throughout cultures that,
you know, again, have been scorned.
But, you know, why?
What is the deeper.
What is the deeper meaning there?
What is.
What is really going on and how we can we sort
(36:30):
of use that and apply it to our own modernsociety now and why these sort of beings or
archetypes exist still?
Like, what are we not seeing?What are we not facing?
And what are we not changing so, so much thereto, like, Unpack.
Speaker A (36:49):
Absolutely. Absolutely.
I love it.
Speaker B (36:51):
So, yeah.
Spooky things.
Oh, this is why I love the paranormal, John.
Because the paranormal really is spiritual.
If people just understood that, we can moveforward with, you know, some of this crazy
nonsense that's out there.
But yeah.
Speaker A (37:05):
Yeah. I mean, the paranormal always.
I get it.
You want to get clicks, you want to sell
tickets, you want to,
you know, show that and everything.
But really the paranormal is full of two
things.
Speaker B (37:20):
You.
Speaker A (37:20):
Yes. Fear the unknown.
Speaker B (37:23):
Right.
Speaker A (37:24):
Love,
hate, you know, all these different emotionsput together that kind of lose touch with and,
you know, I always thought.
It's really interesting to me, used to be a
time where on weekends people would go totheir local cemetery and have a picnic lunch
(37:44):
and sit next to Uncle Bob,
who just died.
Right.
Speaker B (37:47):
Yeah.
Speaker A (37:48):
You would just sit with your family and your kids and you would just.
Speaker B (37:51):
Yes.
Speaker A (37:51):
You know,
hey,
it's a celebration of.
And we call that a celebration of life now.
And I'm like, why don't more people do that?Why don't more people go to graveyard
cemetery?Wow.
Because Hollywood has made it.
You know, there's going to pop up and I'm
(38:12):
going to grab you.
And I think.
I think that's wrong.
But I understand why they do it and
everything.
And I do think the world is putting theircollective minds around understanding the
paranormal.
You know, a lot of people want to say, oh, I
(38:32):
think this is demonic, or I want to think thisis,
you know, evil.
I would say, and I don't know if you agree
with me on this,
Deborah.
I would say maybe 2%, 1 to 2% is truly evil.
Like truly evil paranormal.
What would you think of that?
Speaker B (38:54):
I probably.
Yeah, I would say that it's somewhere low down
there.
Truly evil paranormal is a very rare thing to
encounter.
Like super ******* rare.
Speaker A (39:06):
Yeah.
Speaker B (39:07):
Demons aren't always truly evil.
People think that just because it has a demon
stamp on it, all of a sudd.
And it's truly evil.
No, demons are also divine beings.
Speaker A (39:18):
Yeah, yeah, exactly.
Speaker B (39:21):
Yeah. And I mean, are all of them divine beings?
Yes and no. I guess it depends who you ask.
But the point is that just like there are
different people and different personalitiesand different interests.
The same thing with all these beings, demonsalike, angels, you understand, it doesn't
matter.
And people don't understand that.
And it's this misunderstanding that has usall, like,
(39:44):
worked up around a frenzy about demons andattachments and,
you know, I don't know, possessions and thingslike that.
Speaker A (39:53):
Yeah. And two things that I want to share I think is really interesting on they
interviewed the top exorcist with the CatholicChurch.
This is the number one guy.
Okay.
And he said 98% of exorcisms, he goes on can.
(40:14):
Are basically mental health issues.
They need therapy, they need maybe amedication,
maybe need a hospital stay.
But he did say that 2% he can't explain.
He doesn't know how to explain that.
And he said it's not necessarily evil,
it's just something else that we don'tunderstand.
(40:35):
There's something else in that that leads usto believe that it might be evil, but there's
no guarantee that it's is.
If that makes sense.
Right.
Speaker B (40:46):
Yeah. I mean, and also, remember, truth is so relative.
Like what is evil?
Speaker A (40:53):
Right,
Exactly. Yeah. What.
What to you versus to other people are like,well, yeah, it's kind of like you meet someone
and this is a very generic example.
You meet someone,
everybody goes, ah,
that guy's a jerk.
And you're like, what are you talking about?
He's a nice guy.
(41:13):
But what's.
I don't know,
he's just a jerk.
And you know what I mean?And it's just not that that it's evil.
It's just weird.
And because you're like, why would one person
say this?One person say that.
I have learned through other mediums, and Idon't know if you study this or going to study
this or have studied this.
It's about frequencies.
(41:35):
A lot has to do with frequencies of people.
Speaker B (41:38):
Yes.
Speaker A (41:39):
And I found that fascinating talking to mediums.
They said there's just certain frequencies.
It's kind of like, you know, coming in a room
and someone has the radio on this and someonehas the radio on that, and it's just, you know
what I mean?
And getting that feedback and you're like,
that's horrible.
I, I find things like that fascinating too,
you know, and that's not necessarilyparanormal, but it has to do with,
(42:03):
again,
understanding the unknown and understandinghow it affects.
Affects,
you know, the supernatural and the paranormal.
And again, I think it's a very interesting
subject to study.
Speaker B (42:15):
Absolutely.
And frequencies are definitely something
paranormal.
I think a lot of things are paranormal that
people don't consider paranormal.
And I'm just like, okay, yeah, yeah.
Speaker A (42:25):
And Exactly.
And, you know, the, the, the last thing I
think what's happening in the paranormal worldas long as we're talking about is like, the
Warrens have been basically brought out.
If you don't know about them,
the new movie coming out and everything that'sdoing really well and stuff.
They're basically Frauds.
(42:46):
And they've been kind of put to the test.
At least some people have said they are.
And again, I think that's fascinating, too,because kind of we were talking about this
story is, are they frauds?
Are they not?But there's been a lot of evidence per se,
that says they are, and some says they're not.
I just think it's really interesting.
(43:06):
And why I bring that up is about Annabelle and
a gentleman taking Annabelle around,
you know, to show it off for, like, 50 bucks,which I don't agree with, but that's me.
Speaker B (43:18):
Didn't he die?
Speaker A (43:19):
Correct. Dan or Don Rivera.
Yes, he died.
Speaker B (43:23):
Yeah.
Speaker A (43:24):
Yeah, yeah,
yeah.
And it's interesting.
So I guess my question to you about.
With the paranormal before we wrap up here is
how do you explain to someone who comes up toyou and goes, deborah, I just.
I can't wrap my head around the paranormal.
Like, how would you explain it to them?
Of,
(43:44):
you know, an easy way for them to kind ofunderstand.
Speaker B (43:47):
An easy way to understand the paranormal?
Speaker A (43:51):
Yeah, yeah.
Something that they could wrap their mind
around.
Because there's a lot to talk about.
But if you're just talking to someone at aparty and someone's all a paranormal.
Yeah. I mean, I'm not really sure what youmean by that.
Speaker B (44:04):
Well, I mean, I guess my first question would be, like, what do they consider
paranormal?
Right.
Like,
try to kind of gauge their understanding.
Because I kind of just feel like, again, somany things are relative.
But to me, the paranormal is anything thatlays in the realm of the unexplained and the
(44:25):
unknown.
Right.
So if there's things that we just don't
understand,
that we can't.
We feel but we can't see,
or we know, but we don't know how we know it,or we have these experiences that we can't
explain, but we know that they were real.
We feel that they were real, but we question
if they were real because society has told usthat they can't be real.
(44:46):
This is all paranormal.
It doesn't matter what it is.
It can be ghosts.
It can be cryptids, it can be spiritual
spirits.
It could be aliens, it could be dreams.
It could be,
like a paranormal or psychic gifts.
It doesn't matter.
The point is, is it unexplainable to you?Is it unknown to you?
Is there a part of you that says, oh, my God,I'm really interested in this, or I know
(45:08):
something happened, but I don't know how toexplain it?
Yeah, it's paranormal.
There's just so much in that realm that itcaptures that there's just no one, like, catch
all, like.
Speaker A (45:18):
Yeah.
Speaker B (45:18):
So for me, it's.
It really just has to do with the unknown
period paranormal.
It doesn't matter what that manifests as it
can be.
And a lot of these spiritual experiences that
people have, these awakenings are alsoparanormal because, like, you saw an angel.
Well, that's paranormal.
Speaker A (45:36):
Yeah.
Speaker B (45:36):
It's. Just because it's an angel just doesn't mean.
Just because it's an angel doesn't mean thatit's not paranormal.
Absolutely.
It's outside or of the normal or unknown or
unexplained.
Not understood fully.
Like, you understand.
That's all paranormal to me.
Speaker A (45:52):
Yes. As a difficult subject to put into,
if you want to say a box.
Because there's just so much what your mindcan envision and your mind can imagine is the
paranormal.
Speaker B (46:07):
Yeah.
Speaker A (46:08):
From ghosts to spirits to portals to on and on and on.
There's just so.
So many different.
Yeah.
Speaker B (46:14):
So.
Speaker A (46:15):
So many different things.
So.
Yes.
So, again, such an awesome talk.
I loved it.
Speaker B (46:21):
Thank you.
Speaker A (46:23):
You know, before we wrap up here, Deborah, if you could tell my audience again
where they.
Where they could find you as well as,
you know, what you got coming up.
Speaker B (46:32):
You can always find me on my website, www.panormalparadigma.com.
i'm mostly on Instagram and TikTok, and asJohn pointed out, I am on YouTube.
Not as present there as I should be and willbe, but definitely you can find me there too.
But I respond, oh, and on threads.
(46:53):
So many people are finding me on threads now,
so.
Threads too.
So paranormal paradigma, across the board oneverything.
And feel free to DM me if you need a reading.
So I do medium readings, classic medium
readings, connecting you to your loved ones.
I even do pets now, apparently I do anything
really like it doesn't matter, whatever I canconnect to.
(47:14):
My specialty is connecting you to loved onesand obviously your spirit guides.
But apparently pets have been coming throughand that's been cute.
Speaker A (47:20):
Nice.
Speaker B (47:21):
And then I do subconscious healing work.
So if you need a healing session and you wantto start healing some of those subconscious
wounds, like if you do shadow work, a lot ofpeople who do shadow work come to me because
there's a certain point where, like, peoplejust can't.
They don't know where to go or how to moveforward.
Come over me and your guys will help you withsome of those deeper layers that you haven't
(47:45):
access.
And we can do some subconscious work or if
you're just starting,
come to Me. And we can do this.
And the way that I do it is through
mediumship.
So not only am I able to access certain truths
and knowledge from, you know, the ether, yourguides speak to you directly.
And I know that John has been a testament tothat.
Speaker A (48:03):
So, absolutely.
Speaker B (48:04):
This is really cool to be able to say this and know that a fellow friend has
done it with me and has had a good experience.
So come by medium reading or subconscious
healing session,
and we'll just take it from there.
Speaker A (48:18):
Yeah, yeah.
So please do that, you know, because it is
totally worth it.
And I'm not saying that because, you know,
I'm.
I'm close to Deborah and I'm like, just do it.
It's honestly a great,
great thing you can do.
I mean, I can't say enough for it.
And, you know, anytime she wants mytestimonial, she will get it.
(48:40):
So this will.
Before we wrap up here next week will be,
you know, of course, Halloween week.
So I will be releasing some scary stuff.
And.
And I will be releasing this video or I shouldsay episode on, you know, that week two of
trying to do everything,
you know, because, like, our Christmas, I liketo say.
Speaker B (49:02):
Yeah, I know, right?
Speaker A (49:04):
Because, like.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I mean, November.
Not to say November and December.
It's scary.
But, you know, this is our.
So I'll be releasing that.
And, you know, when you see this again, pleasereach out to Deborah and make sure that if
you're going through anything or you just wantto dm, just want to talk, please do it.
You won't regret it and everything.
And again, I can't say enough.
(49:24):
I love you, Deborah.
It's so much.
I'd love to have you on again.
And, you know, we'll talk more.
More fun stuff, so.
All right, well,
stay spooky.
Bye.
Foreign.
Welcome to Dairyland Frights, the paranormalpodcast that covers everything spooky, creepy,
and mysterious in the Midwest and beyond.
(00:22):
And today,
boy,
every time I can have her on the show,
she's beautiful.
Bootiful.
I'm trying to use bootiful.
And she's spooktacular.
How you like that, Deborah?
And you know,
every time I can have her on the show isamazing because she's so smart, so funny.
(00:49):
She just really has some great stuff.
Every time she comes on the show,
she.
If you don't know her,
please get to know her,
because not only is she a medium, but a healerand, you know,
born Paradigma. She's on YouTube.
She does some great clips, by the way.
(01:10):
She's also on Instagram and other sites.
You can see her.
And that is Deborah.
Welcome, Deborah.
Speaker B (01:18):
Thank you, John. I'm always so excited to be on here, and you always give me,
like, the greatest, like, welcomeintroduction.
So I'm really excited.
Thank you.
Speaker A (01:25):
You, it is so easy to do.
There are some people that I just love to have
back on the show, and you are one of them andeverything.
Speaker B (01:36):
Thank you.
Speaker A (01:37):
And, you know, again, we have so much fun together.
And our, our episodes do so well.
You know, anytime I get, like I said, anexcuse to get you on here and talk, a little
spookiness and a little,
you know, other things to deal with theparanormal and,
and other things to deal with, maybe portalsand stuff.
(01:58):
Hey, I love it.
So, you know, this is a treat for me.
Speaker B (02:03):
Yes.
Speaker A (02:04):
And, and here's the thing.
I want to first catch up with Deborah.
What's been going on in your world other than
you told me you were yet a sick kid?We will not talk about that.
You talk about what's going on.
Paranormal, pigment, medium, stuff like that.
Speaker B (02:22):
Yeah. So, I mean, I,
I,
I am, I'm so lucky.
Like, I feel like I'm so grateful.
That's what I feel.
I feel very grateful because every time that I
come on this show, I feel like I havesomething new to share or I have some sort of
new experiences or I've leveled up in somesort of way,
(02:44):
and it just, it keeps happening.
I am going strong with my own,
I guess, journey and my own abilities andthings like that.
They themselves are evolving, which is crazy.
And not only that, it's being reflected in my,
in my little business that I have where I do.
Not only do I do medium readings, obviously,
(03:06):
but I do healing sessions.
Right.
So now I'm focusing more on doing subconscioushealing through mediumship.
And that seal been essentially like Growing,like, it's.
It's a steady, like, increase thing wherereally impressed.
And I mean.
I mean, even I'm impressed with the things
(03:26):
that I know and can do and how I can access,like, subconscious thoughts and wounds and
pains and truths and then help individualsalso access these and allow them to sort of
transmute these pains and fears into their ownpower and kind of just embody and start to
align with
their purpose. And I've been.
(03:48):
See, I've been seeing clients for months now,
and just like, I can't even describe howthey've grown.
I. I really.
It's almost like I need them to have
testimonials so that they themselves can tellyou.
Yeah. And even in that, I've seen my ownclients develop medium and spiritual or
psychic gifts, and I'm just like, holy ****.
(04:10):
And so that's the power of subconscious
healing.
You can tap into your own truth and your owngifts.
And that's now what I've been doing.
And I just.
Who would have thought, John, that I'd behere?
Not me, but here I am.
Speaker A (04:22):
Yeah. And again, you know, I've had Deborah on several times, and to see the
growth from you, Deborah.
Speaker B (04:30):
Thank you.
Speaker A (04:31):
Oh, my God.
Blows me away.
So go back and listen to older episodes.
Me and Deborah were just getting to know each
other,
and she was so nice to come onto my show,
a podcast earlier on, we didn't really knoweach other,
but if you.
If you listen to each episode we've been on,
(04:52):
we've grown closer and she's grown strongerand.
And just helping people and talking aboutdifferent things about, you know,
her career as well as, you know, what she'strying to grow as a medium and a healer and
stuff.
And that really help people,
(05:12):
especially in this world.
And I know this is not.
We'll get to the spooky stuff, folks.
So just, you know, I just want to keep
praising Deborah so she gets a big head.
But anyway,
and so again, when you listen to this, youknow, take the opportunity, you know, just,
you know, get on, you know, DM or get onInstagram,
(05:35):
make a comment on YouTube on her video andstuff, she's gotten some really, like I said,
great videos and some great views.
Please comment.
You know, that's something you're goingthrough.
It's something you just need Deborah just to,I don't know, talk about.
Or. Or maybe you're like, I think I have agift.
You know, Great.
Reach out, see what's going on.
(05:56):
So awesome.
I'm just so proud of you.
And Just so happy that you continue to steady
growth and I can't say enough about muchsuccess that I want you to have.
So there you go.
Speaker B (06:10):
Thank you.
I really appreciate that.
And I really think that those lovely thoughtsand, you know, prayers or wishes go a long
way.
So I really appreciate it.
Speaker A (06:21):
Yeah. And I don't know if we'll get into it, but I had a dream about Deborah.
But we'll probably have to put that on aPatreon app.
Speaker B (06:29):
Yeah, that.
Oh, that'd be a good idea.
Yes, that is definitely Patreon worthycontent.
Speaker A (06:39):
You're gonna have to pay for that, folks.
You have to pay for that, folks.
Hilarious.
No, no, it was, it was, it was fun.
It was great.
So anyway, the reason we are here tonight,Deborah suggested some,
how do I say?
Not agitated.
What. What do you want to say about these,these women?
Speaker B (07:01):
Scorned.
They've been scorned.
Scorned.
Speaker A (07:05):
Scorned women.
Scorned.
Speaker B (07:06):
Scorn.
Scorn.
Speaker A (07:07):
Scorn.
Yes.
So Deborah, we're just gonna have fun with ittonight.
She.
She has some women that maybe you want a
little avoid or if you do meet them,
maybe be nice to them.
I don't know, I, you know, but they're out
there and if they're out there, meet them justto be very careful.
(07:27):
So, Deborah,
however you want to do it, you want to take itaway and start with the first one and kind of
give our audience about what we're talkingabout.
Speaker B (07:35):
Yes. So really I kind of.
We were talking about what we should talk
about and you know, creatures and things likethat.
I was like, you know, it'd be reallyinteresting to sort of put a focus or a
spotlight on these vengeful,
scorned female spirits that haunt the lore ofso many different countries and, you know,
(08:00):
cultures and things like that.
And the spirits that.
Or the spirit really, that really drew myattention was the Kuchiware Onna or Kuchisake
Onna as it goes by different names dependingon the region.
And she kind of stood out to me because it's aspirit that I'm not as familiar with, but yet
(08:23):
follows the same sort of archetype or tropethat a lot of these,
you know, women that been betrayed or havebetrayed that have been scorned or hurt or
have some sort of trauma and then they kind ofreappear to haunt us in, in,
in this life.
So growing up Latina, right.
(08:44):
Everybody knows about La Llorona, right?Like that is the first female spirit that you
learn about that,
you know, haunts the towns, I guess, or thecountry, and cries out for her children and
obviously can become a not very nice spirit,depending on how you proceed.
(09:08):
So,
and this is something that it happens a lot indifferent countries.
When I lived in the Dominican Republic, therewas a spirit, spirit or creature, however you
want to call it known as La Siwapa.
And this was also another beautiful woman.
And she lived in the country, like in themountains, I think.
And she.
(09:28):
What was creepy about her is that she had likea forward, forward facing torso,
but like backward facing legs.
And so she walked all weird.
And then she would apparently lure people tolike their death and things like that.
But there is some sort, I can't remember thestory, like why she became the way she was.
(09:50):
But it's this idea that like these trauma,like these women who suffer these very painful
trauma, especially with love, whether that belove of their children like La Llorona, or
love of another, like what we're going to seewith the Kuchisake onna, like of a romantic
partner, this trauma and this pain kind oflingers and it's something that doesn't allow
(10:16):
them to really just move forward.
And so what they do is they kind of stay inthis realm and haunt in the liminal spaces.
And some people get to see them live and tellthe tales.
So I just kind of wanted to focus on that.
Speaker A (10:34):
Yeah.
So why do you think that this, that we.
It took tales of women being, you know,
it's kind of like in today's world where, youknow, you break up with someone and you go,
you cry and you eat some Haagen Dazs and you,you know what I mean, you sit on the couch.
(10:55):
But then there are different where it mightlead to more serious things.
Do you think the culture back then looked atwomen like.
And I know this was true to a certain point.
Women got married very, very young,
12, 14 years old.
Part of that was because of lifespan, right?
(11:18):
Because typically people in the Middle Agesand so on and so forth were not living until
60, 70, 80 years old.
They might be living to 20 or 30.
So if you wanted to start a family and startedearly.
But for older women and old,
(11:38):
back in that day, Middle Ages and stuff was 20or 30, they were looked at like, almost
shunned,
you know what I mean?Like, what's wrong with you?
There has to be something wrong with you.
Do you think that contributed to these stories
of like women who were,
who were in these situations and then storiesevolved around them to make people scared?
(12:06):
Like,
you know, if You.
Speaker B (12:08):
If you.
Speaker A (12:08):
This happens to you, this is.
You're going to turn into, I don't know, a
terrible witch or spirit or demon orsomething.
Speaker B (12:16):
Yeah. The thing about these stories is that sort of laced between all the lore and
the embellishment is.
Right, right.
And so I think these stories are, in a way,testaments of how the culture for so long now
has viewed and treated the feminine.
(12:39):
And I'm not going to say women per se, but
just like the feminine archetype or thefeminine energy.
So we'll.
We'll stick with that.
And for a long time, unfortunately,
this has been a very silenced or subduedsuppressed idea or archetype.
Right,
right.
(12:59):
And then.
So we have that.
Then we have.
On a deeper level, when you do this to thefeminine.
Right.
When you do this to this archetype, what
people don't understand is that thisarchetype, the feminine archetype, is linked
to our subconscious, which is also there's alink to the.
Our emotions.
Now, what is the truth in all this?
(13:21):
Like, why is this so important?
And some of the truth in these.
In this lore is like, oh, the idea that if,
you know, somebody becomes angry or dies withpain or whatever,
it lingers.
Well, that's because it does.
Right.
Speaker A (13:36):
Yeah.
Speaker B (13:37):
That is actually truth.
Right. That is truth.
And anything that lingers, haunts.
It doesn't really matter if it's dead or not.
Like, if, you know, you have somebody, like,
let's say you.
When you're in a relationship and you're in a
relationship with somebody who's constantlycodependent and doesn't want to do the work
(13:57):
and,
you know, wants to blame everything else andis constantly a victim that's haunting you.
Do you understand?Like, that's already haunting.
So anything that lingers, haunts.
And so we're now talking about,
you know,
millennia of stories of the same sort of ideathat this pain we suffer, this pain in life,
(14:21):
maybe we die with it or we die some sort oftraumatic way, and it haunts even in the
afterlife.
And that's true, because what people don'tunderstand is that whatever happens here in
this life you take with you.
You don't magically get absolved of all your
problems and all your sins and all yourwrongdoings and all your pain.
You gotta kind of work with it and work on itin the next life, too.
(14:44):
And if you don't, well, then that festers andthat lingers and.
And there we have now a haunting ghost.
Do you understand?
Speaker A (14:50):
Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker B (14:51):
Sort of.
Speaker A (14:52):
Absolutely.
That's so that's a great explanation.
Speaker B (14:55):
Thanks.
So that's why I thought that it'd be really
interesting to focus on women.
Just because we are the.
Out of the two sexes, we are the.
The ones that just gets.
Gets this short end of the stick oftentimes.
And, you know,
for many things. But I. And it's also.
(15:15):
But on a bigger scale, the reason for this is
because silencing or sub or suppressing thefeminine energy also suppresses us as souls,
which is something that we could probably talkabout on another podcast.
But there is a link between the subconsciousand the soul, and us not really evolving or
developing into our purpose or, like, cominginto our purpose because of said suppression,
(15:39):
which is then linked to the femininearchetype.
But again, that is another story.
So with that said, I guess the answer to your
question is,
well, yeah, there is some truth.
And then other stuff has been obviously
embellished with this.
And they try to make women or just like
anything to make you look scary and hauntingand spooky and just create fear.
(16:02):
Yeah. So it is what it is, but it's still fun.
Absolutely. And also, I think there's always alesson to be learned in any of these stories
about our humanity and our body, our moralityor society or ethics.
Yeah, things like that.
Like, there's definitely deeper,
I guess,
themes to explore.
Speaker A (16:23):
Yes, absolutely.
Awesome.
Speaker B (16:27):
Okay, I'm excited.
All right, so when it comes to this, I did do
sort of like research and then laced with AI.
So let's see what happens.
Speaker A (16:38):
Here we go.
Speaker B (16:38):
Yeah, we're gonna just do it.
But I'm really excited, so I'm gonna.
I'm gonna go into my podcast Persona and we'regonna tell a bit of a story as you hear all
the commotion.
Are we ready?
Speaker A (16:51):
We are ready.
Speaker B (16:53):
All right, Perfect.
All right,
so this is about the legend or the myth, or assome will say, that the reality of the
existence of the Kuchisake Onna.
They say that she waits at the corner of a
lonely street.
A woman in a long coat, face hidden behind asurgical mask.
She steps toward you, her voice barely above awhisper.
(17:16):
Watashi wa kirei?Am I beautiful?
And if you say yes, she removes her mask andyou see it, a smile carved from ear to ear on
her face.
And she asks again, even now.
And what you say next determines if you live
or not.
And so we're gonna descend into this legend
and the spirit of the Kuchisake Onna, or theslit mouthed woman.
(17:40):
So in classical Japanese folklore, there aretwo great classes of Supernatural beings.
Actually, there's more, but they kind of focuson the onryo, vengeful spirits of the dead
consumed by rage and sorrow.
And the yokai, the creatures of mystery,shapeshifters and tricksters born from the
imagination of the living.
The Kuchisake Onna, they say, belongs to both.
(18:01):
Her name translates literally to the Slit
Mouthed woman,
though in other regions, as I've said, she'salso called the Kuchiware Onna, or the Broken
Mouthed woman.
But her story begins not in the city streets
of modern Japan, but it begins long ago in theEdo period or Edo period, which was somewhere
between the 1600s and 1860s in Japan.
(18:23):
So let us imagine.
Once she was a woman of rare beauty, married
to a powerful samurai.
Lonely and perhaps a little too admired, she
sought affection elsewhere.
When her husband discovered her betrayal, his
honor curdled into fury.
He drew his katana and struck across hermouth.
Who will think you're beautiful now?Her blood mixed with moonlight, and her life
(18:46):
ended.
But her rage did not.
She rose, a spirit bound by betrayal andshame,
wandering between worlds, hiding her mutilatedface behind a silk form mask, searching
endlessly for someone who would still call herbeautiful.
Now that's how this is all started.
But the really interesting thing about this is
that there have been sightings.
(19:06):
And in 1979, there was a very well documentedand recorded incident or event that kind of
shook the nation.
So in spring of 1978, actually in the GifuPrefecture, an elderly woman was tending her
garden at dusk.
But she saw something.
She saw a tall, masked figure standingsilently at the edge of her yard.
(19:30):
Well, thing is that word travels fast,especially in small communities.
And by morning, the story was in thenewspaper.
Some reports that the gardener, the elderlywoman,
saw the woman with the mask.
But others report that she saw the woman
without the mask, and she saw the slitted sortof smile on the face.
By the next year.
(19:51):
So now in 1979, Japan was in full blown panic.
Children whispered of a ghost in a red coat, a
mask, and she carried scissors.
Schools were sent warnings going home.
Police patrols followed children as theywalked.
Some refused to leave school without herparents, because now people were also
reporting sightings at schools in Tokyo.
One man claimed that he met her,
(20:14):
this woman, outside a subway station.
And she asked him softly,
watashi Wakire.
And he left nervously and turned away.
But when he heard her footsteps behind him iswhen he realized that they were not echoes,
but pursuit.
And then he ran.
No one was killed in these sightings orreports,
but Definitely the entire nation feltcompletely haunted and it shook them.
(20:38):
So it's interesting that for me, at least, howa simple ghost sighting can turn the whole
nation of Japan upside down.
And not too long ago, I mean, this was likethe late 70s, 1979, like, that was only a few.
I was born 86.
(20:58):
So like, that was just a few years before I
was born.
So this was somewhat 40 years ago or somethingmore than.
For a little more than 40 years.
Over 40 years ago.
That wasn't that long ago.
So this is modern society, essentially.
Do you understand?This is not something that happened in like
the 1800s.
Speaker A (21:16):
Exactly, yeah.
Speaker B (21:17):
So it just, it goes.
And it kind of shows you that testimony, it
can be very powerful thing, even thoughoftentimes it gets scoffed at, but especially
within the paranormal, it's really all that wehave and all we can go by.
And if a lot of people see the same thing,then I don't think it's really just testimony
(21:37):
at that point.
I think at that point it lends itself to some
sort of evidence, some sort of data.
The only problem is that because it's notrecorded, then, you know, it all goes to ****.
But,
you know, you know, science at its best.
But here we are.
So the thing about this figure is that there'sobviously more occult or esoteric spiritual
(22:01):
significance or symbolism behind that.
So I was wondering if maybe we can go
somewhere in that.
Because on the surface, Kuchisake Onna's sortof a ghost story, right?
Speaker A (22:10):
Yeah.
Speaker B (22:10):
But spiritually she's something again, much deeper.
Speaker A (22:15):
Okay. Yes.
Speaker B (22:16):
So the thing about the Kuchisake Onna, it's that there's a lot more.
There's deeper meaning, especially on anoccult or esoteric or even spiritual level.
So on the surface, the Kuchisake Onna is aghost story, but spiritually, she's something
deeper.
A reflection of an unhealed collection.
Sorry, a reflection of an unhealed collectivetrauma, a mirror of wounds society refuses to
(22:41):
see.
Her appearance at dusk marks her as being of
liminal spaces, which oftentimes so manybeings appear in these liminal spaces, because
that's essentially where a lot of thesethresholds are.
It's a threshold space.
So that's why they're so common.
Her mask is more than a disguise.
It's the boundary between the outer beauty andher inner suffering.
(23:04):
And it hides what culture does not want toface the pain of women, silence, shamed or
objectified.
And in a cult thought, what is repressedfesters.
And when enough people share that Repression,it becomes part of the collective and it gains
power.
And when she appears at dusk in these sort of,
like, liminal spaces,
it's also seen as a way of the unknown or ofthe unseen leaking through our reality and
(23:31):
sort of trying to give us a glimpse of thetruth of our world.
So I think it's just.
There's just so much there to unpack because,
again, we're talking about now the greatersort of more archetypal energies.
Because she's definitely not alone as a.
As, you know, vengeful or scorned or betrayedspirit across centuries and continents.
(23:57):
Other women also walk this sort of space withher.
In Japan, there's a. There's another beingcalled the oiwa.
If I pronounced that wrong, I'm so sorry.
From the Yotsuya Kaidan.
So basically, it's a woman who was poisoned,disfigured and betrayed by her husband and
still haunts him, or haunts, I guess, men.
(24:19):
There's also the Hannya, or the mask of
jealousy.
So this is often used to portray women or, Imean, the feminine.
The feminine is specifically consumed byeither jealousy or rage.
And so the mask grows horns and fangs as a wayto depict this.
There's also the Yuki Onna, the Snow Woman,
(24:39):
who's actually beautiful, but very deadly asshe freezes people to their death.
Okay,
yeah.
There's, like I said, La Llorona, the whippingwoman of Latin America, drowns her children
and forever searches for them by theriverbanks.
The White lady of Europe, a ghost in white whoappears after the betrayal or death, after
(25:00):
betrayal or death, haunting castles andcrossroads.
And each of these women, or each of thesefigures, and there's just so many across,
you know, all of this, all of history.
And we're not just talking about modern
history.
We're just, you know, you go back into the
myths and the folklore and the cultures ofwomen, even.
Even, like Lilith, like in the Bible, youunderstand?
(25:22):
Although I don't know if she's actually in theBible.
But the story of Lilith, you know, is onethat's also very common of this theme of the.
Of a sort of a woman that was outcasted orexiled or not accepted or something, you know,
too seductive or too dark about her, youunderstand?
And this is a womb that we all carry.
And in each, in our own ways, it's sort ofasking the same question, you know, do you see
(25:47):
me?Do you accept me?
Can you.
Can you handle me?
In my best and in my worst, even in, like, myhappiest and in My sorrow, my lightest, and in
my darkness.
And this is something that obviously a lot ofpeople, and not just women, like, a lot of
people ask,
like, can you hold me in my best spaces?And also in my not so best spaces.
And if you really think about it, all thesestories are stories of when someone couldn't
(26:11):
handle them in their darkest moments and kindof shunned that part of them completely.
And so now we've learned to shun those partsof us as well.
But like I said, like the spiritual.
Yes.
Speaker A (26:23):
That's the way,
you know, you know what that goes reminds meof a lot is witches.
So, like back in 1800, 1700s, whatever youwant to say, if your crops are failing, if
you're having issues.
Speaker B (26:42):
You.
Speaker A (26:42):
Know, and there's this older woman down the road and she's creepy and she's a
little weird and stuff.
Yeah,
that she must.
That's the one.
Not that I'm a poor farmer.
Not that I know.
You know what I mean?
Not that I'm having problems,
of course.
That I'm lazy or what?
(27:03):
No, no, no, it's that.
It's that person.
And the Salem witch trials.
That's a whole different podcast.
Sorry to go off a little tangent here for you.
Speaker B (27:13):
No, that's not.
Speaker A (27:13):
But that all started when teenage girls said, hey,
I'm not sure I like these people,
and these are a little weird,
you know,
And I think they're witches because they do X,Y or Z,
you know, or do this act or do that act orwhatever.
And you know what's funny?Funny?
(27:35):
Nothing has changed.
Think about when you were in high school,
and not to the point, hopefully in your highschool, you were not hung or burned at the
stake.
Speaker B (27:45):
Right.
Speaker A (27:46):
That's when we got a problem.
But you know what I mean,
if you were in school or just you'restruggling, you know, at school.
Oh, it's because of that girl.
She's weird.
And I think she.
She does this or she does that.
And I think these stories, what they do embodyis the kids.
This is our way to kind of deal with that.
(28:09):
You know what I mean?
You know, kind of these women have certainstrength and certain powers, but we're dealing
with it in an extremely negative way.
We're not dealing with them like they have.
I don't know, you see the slip mouth woman andyou say she looks pretty and, you know, your
(28:30):
life turns great or something.
You know what I mean?
Speaker B (28:33):
Right.
Speaker A (28:34):
It's about.
It's about that.
That we want to somehow, again, this isdifferent.
Podcast of,
you know, demean and show that, you know, thisis the reason why she had her mouth slit is
because she was doing this indiscretion, notbecause maybe her husband was this big jerk
(28:57):
and not, you know,
not loved her or anything.
You know what I mean?
So I just think out comes those stories toothat we want to say,
okay, these women are this way.
And also to teach a lesson, like you said,
you know, which I just find fascinatingbecause you don't typically in male stories,
(29:18):
right.
You know, like Jack the Ripper or somethinglike that, it's typically there.
They're murderers, they're killers.
Speaker B (29:25):
You know what I mean? Yeah.
It's like they're.
They're the.
They're the instigator, they're the culprit,they're the.
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker A (29:32):
There's not, there's not.
We're not, I shouldn't say putting blame or
whatever, but it's just black and white.
They're just killer, they're insane.
So they kill and that's it.
You know, there isn't anything associated with
it other than they're just cold bloodedkiller.
And so I just find that interesting, that kindof the dichotomy of these stories versus, you
(29:56):
know, a ghost story where they talk about,like I said, about maybe there's a haunted man
with a hook on his hand and he killed, I don'tknow, the generic three teenagers,
you know what I mean, in that house,
because he's insane.
But these women,
there's a whole different,
(30:17):
you know, I don't know, layers of different,
why they do the things they do and what'sassociated with that and how when you meet
them, what happens.
I just find that fascinating.
Speaker B (30:31):
Right,
Because I think that what these.
So obviously the archetype of the masculineand the feminine is different and it's for a
reason.
But that question that you pose about, oh,
when you meet them, you know, what's thelesson?
It's because the feminine, whether you like itor not, is there to heal.
It is a very healing archetype.
(30:52):
And so.
And it's also because it is feminine, it'sassociated with the darkness.
And darkness is one of these things that forcenturies has been sort of correlated with
evil or,
you know, scary.
You know,
like you said witchcraft and Satan and likeall these like spooky things, but that's not
(31:16):
necessarily true.
Darkness in essence is in the unknown.
And the unknown is.
Is fear.
There's fear in the unknown, you understand?
So these types of stories kind of also arethere to Help you face that, help you kind of
face the fear, face the unknown,
(31:36):
ask the questions, go deeper.
Because it's supposed to be healing.
There's supposed to be something there for youto unlock and for you to face so that you can
level up.
If that makes sense.
Speaker A (31:47):
Yes, absolutely makes sense.
Speaker B (31:51):
Which is why they've.
These sort of stories and archetypes have been
around for centuries, you understand?And if you look at women, even women in, in
the goddesses and the gods too, like thesegoddesses have these double personalities.
They can be just as healing and beautiful andabundant and gorgeous and then all of a sudden
(32:13):
destructive and territorial and jealous andyou know, everything because it's both,
because we are both.
There is no like, oh, I'm supposed to be thislike perfect person all the time.
The point isn't to be light all the time.
The purpose is to be whole.
And in order for you to be whole, you need tobe authentic.
(32:34):
And that means encompassing and embodying boththe dark and the light and seeing what the
balance looks like within you.
And some of these stories is sort of like awarning as to what can happen if you don't do
that, if you don't honor that darkness, if youdon't face the fear, if you kind of hold onto
the pain and you don't release these traumasor, or transmute this,
(32:56):
this is what can happen.
That's the scary part.
That's where the fear is coming from.
And all these scary stories is because of all
this pain and fear and doubt and on securityand all these things that people don't want to
let go of.
So then it festers and it lingers and ithaunts and people don't like things that
fester and linger and haunts because.
Yeah, things.
Speaker A (33:17):
Yeah, that makes complete sense.
Yeah, I love it.
Speaker B (33:21):
Thank you.
So basically the slit mouth woman is more than
just a girl.
She's like, it's part of an archetype
essentially at this point it's part of theshadow, right?
The shadow side of the divine feminine.
In ancient times, goddesses like Inanna,Lilith and Kali embodied both beauty and
destruction, creation and death.
And but as centuries pass, society split these
powers apart.
(33:42):
Light from dark, saint, sinner, goddess from
ghost.
And what could not be sanctified becamedemonized.
Speaker A (33:48):
Right.
Speaker B (33:50):
So true.
And so the goddess of the shadow returned to
the spirit of vengeance.
The Kuchisake Onna is the modern embodiment of
that exile.
She is the face of pain that refuses to be
hidden.
The divine feminine returning monstrous formto demand to demand recognition and even, to a
certain extent, retribution.
Her question, am I beautiful?
Is not about vanity.
It's a spiritual challenge.
(34:10):
Can you love what is broken?Can you see the divine even in what terrifies
you?And when we answer truthfully, not with
flattery or fear, but with awareness, thelegend says, she vanishes because again, laced
with truth, spirit honors authenticity, spirithonors truth.
Symbolically, this means that when we face theshadow without running, when we acknowledge
(34:31):
the wounds beneath the mask, the hauntingends.
In our world today, a world obsessed withperfection, filters, and appearances, the
spirit of the Kuchisake Onna still walks amongus,
but not as a ghost on the street, but as thequiet pain of women or men told to smile
through their suffering, as the silence traumaof those who hide their scars behind polite
masks.
(34:51):
Yet there is power here because the darkfeminine is awakening again.
From the temples of Kali to the circles ofHecate,
the women reclaiming Lilith, and to artistsembracing the shadow and the forgotten
goddesses that are being remembered.
With them returns home wholeness, the truth.
That darkness is not evil, that pain cantransform,
(35:11):
that beauty is not perfection, but presence.
So the next time that you hear the question,am I beautiful?
Watashi wa kirei, may you answer not fromfear, but from truth.
Yes, you are.
You're more than you know.
You are dark and you are light.
You are whole.
So that is that love.
Speaker A (35:29):
That. That's awesome.
I'll remember that.
Speaker B (35:34):
Yes, do remember that, please.
You are whole.
You are a whole *** being.
Speaker A (35:41):
Exactly.
And that's a great.
Yeah, like you said, that's a great lesson.
And that's something that,
you know, we can carry from in our life andeverything like that, because again,
it's, you know, it's hard out there, andsometimes people just need to hear,
you know,
you're beautiful.
You know, whether you think you're not you,you are, you know, and you're strong and
(36:06):
everything.
And, yeah, I think that's a great, greatlesson.
I love it.
Speaker B (36:09):
Thank you.
So that was the Kuchisake Onna, the YoronaSiguapa, the white woman, all of these women,
all throughout cultures that,
you know, again, have been scorned.
But, you know, why?
What is the deeper.
What is the deeper meaning there?
What is.
What is really going on and how we can we sort
(36:30):
of use that and apply it to our own modernsociety now and why these sort of beings or
archetypes exist still?
Like, what are we not seeing?What are we not facing?
And what are we not changing so, so much thereto, like, Unpack.
Speaker A (36:49):
Absolutely. Absolutely.
I love it.
Speaker B (36:51):
So, yeah.
Spooky things.
Oh, this is why I love the paranormal, John.
Because the paranormal really is spiritual.
If people just understood that, we can moveforward with, you know, some of this crazy
nonsense that's out there.
But yeah.
Speaker A (37:05):
Yeah. I mean, the paranormal always.
I get it.
You want to get clicks, you want to sell
tickets, you want to,
you know, show that and everything.
But really the paranormal is full of two
things.
Speaker B (37:20):
You.
Speaker A (37:20):
Yes. Fear the unknown.
Speaker B (37:23):
Right.
Speaker A (37:24):
Love,
hate, you know, all these different emotionsput together that kind of lose touch with and,
you know, I always thought.
It's really interesting to me, used to be a
time where on weekends people would go totheir local cemetery and have a picnic lunch
(37:44):
and sit next to Uncle Bob,
who just died.
Right.
Speaker B (37:47):
Yeah.
Speaker A (37:48):
You would just sit with your family and your kids and you would just.
Speaker B (37:51):
Yes.
Speaker A (37:51):
You know,
hey,
it's a celebration of.
And we call that a celebration of life now.
And I'm like, why don't more people do that?Why don't more people go to graveyard
cemetery?Wow.
Because Hollywood has made it.
You know, there's going to pop up and I'm
(38:12):
going to grab you.
And I think.
I think that's wrong.
But I understand why they do it and
everything.
And I do think the world is putting theircollective minds around understanding the
paranormal.
You know, a lot of people want to say, oh, I
(38:32):
think this is demonic, or I want to think thisis,
you know, evil.
I would say, and I don't know if you agree
with me on this,
Deborah.
I would say maybe 2%, 1 to 2% is truly evil.
Like truly evil paranormal.
What would you think of that?
Speaker B (38:54):
I probably.
Yeah, I would say that it's somewhere low down
there.
Truly evil paranormal is a very rare thing to
encounter.
Like super ******* rare.
Speaker A (39:06):
Yeah.
Speaker B (39:07):
Demons aren't always truly evil.
People think that just because it has a demon
stamp on it, all of a sudd.
And it's truly evil.
No, demons are also divine beings.
Speaker A (39:18):
Yeah, yeah, exactly.
Speaker B (39:21):
Yeah. And I mean, are all of them divine beings?
Yes and no. I guess it depends who you ask.
But the point is that just like there are
different people and different personalitiesand different interests.
The same thing with all these beings, demonsalike, angels, you understand, it doesn't
matter.
And people don't understand that.
And it's this misunderstanding that has usall, like,
(39:44):
worked up around a frenzy about demons andattachments and,
you know, I don't know, possessions and thingslike that.
Speaker A (39:53):
Yeah. And two things that I want to share I think is really interesting on they
interviewed the top exorcist with the CatholicChurch.
This is the number one guy.
Okay.
And he said 98% of exorcisms, he goes on can.
(40:14):
Are basically mental health issues.
They need therapy, they need maybe amedication,
maybe need a hospital stay.
But he did say that 2% he can't explain.
He doesn't know how to explain that.
And he said it's not necessarily evil,
it's just something else that we don'tunderstand.
(40:35):
There's something else in that that leads usto believe that it might be evil, but there's
no guarantee that it's is.
If that makes sense.
Right.
Speaker B (40:46):
Yeah. I mean, and also, remember, truth is so relative.
Like what is evil?
Speaker A (40:53):
Right,
Exactly. Yeah. What.
What to you versus to other people are like,well, yeah, it's kind of like you meet someone
and this is a very generic example.
You meet someone,
everybody goes, ah,
that guy's a jerk.
And you're like, what are you talking about?
He's a nice guy.
(41:13):
But what's.
I don't know,
he's just a jerk.
And you know what I mean?And it's just not that that it's evil.
It's just weird.
And because you're like, why would one person
say this?One person say that.
I have learned through other mediums, and Idon't know if you study this or going to study
this or have studied this.
It's about frequencies.
(41:35):
A lot has to do with frequencies of people.
Speaker B (41:38):
Yes.
Speaker A (41:39):
And I found that fascinating talking to mediums.
They said there's just certain frequencies.
It's kind of like, you know, coming in a room
and someone has the radio on this and someonehas the radio on that, and it's just, you know
what I mean?
And getting that feedback and you're like,
that's horrible.
I, I find things like that fascinating too,
you know, and that's not necessarilyparanormal, but it has to do with,
(42:03):
again,
understanding the unknown and understandinghow it affects.
Affects,
you know, the supernatural and the paranormal.
And again, I think it's a very interesting
subject to study.
Speaker B (42:15):
Absolutely.
And frequencies are definitely something
paranormal.
I think a lot of things are paranormal that
people don't consider paranormal.
And I'm just like, okay, yeah, yeah.
Speaker A (42:25):
And Exactly.
And, you know, the, the, the last thing I
think what's happening in the paranormal worldas long as we're talking about is like, the
Warrens have been basically brought out.
If you don't know about them,
the new movie coming out and everything that'sdoing really well and stuff.
They're basically Frauds.
(42:46):
And they've been kind of put to the test.
At least some people have said they are.
And again, I think that's fascinating, too,because kind of we were talking about this
story is, are they frauds?
Are they not?But there's been a lot of evidence per se,
that says they are, and some says they're not.
I just think it's really interesting.
(43:06):
And why I bring that up is about Annabelle and
a gentleman taking Annabelle around,
you know, to show it off for, like, 50 bucks,which I don't agree with, but that's me.
Speaker B (43:18):
Didn't he die?
Speaker A (43:19):
Correct. Dan or Don Rivera.
Yes, he died.
Speaker B (43:23):
Yeah.
Speaker A (43:24):
Yeah, yeah,
yeah.
And it's interesting.
So I guess my question to you about.
With the paranormal before we wrap up here is
how do you explain to someone who comes up toyou and goes, deborah, I just.
I can't wrap my head around the paranormal.
Like, how would you explain it to them?
Of,
(43:44):
you know, an easy way for them to kind ofunderstand.
Speaker B (43:47):
An easy way to understand the paranormal?
Speaker A (43:51):
Yeah, yeah.
Something that they could wrap their mind
around.
Because there's a lot to talk about.
But if you're just talking to someone at aparty and someone's all a paranormal.
Yeah. I mean, I'm not really sure what youmean by that.
Speaker B (44:04):
Well, I mean, I guess my first question would be, like, what do they consider
paranormal?
Right.
Like,
try to kind of gauge their understanding.
Because I kind of just feel like, again, somany things are relative.
But to me, the paranormal is anything thatlays in the realm of the unexplained and the
(44:25):
unknown.
Right.
So if there's things that we just don't
understand,
that we can't.
We feel but we can't see,
or we know, but we don't know how we know it,or we have these experiences that we can't
explain, but we know that they were real.
We feel that they were real, but we question
if they were real because society has told usthat they can't be real.
(44:46):
This is all paranormal.
It doesn't matter what it is.
It can be ghosts.
It can be cryptids, it can be spiritual
spirits.
It could be aliens, it could be dreams.
It could be,
like a paranormal or psychic gifts.
It doesn't matter.
The point is, is it unexplainable to you?Is it unknown to you?
Is there a part of you that says, oh, my God,I'm really interested in this, or I know
(45:08):
something happened, but I don't know how toexplain it?
Yeah, it's paranormal.
There's just so much in that realm that itcaptures that there's just no one, like, catch
all, like.
Speaker A (45:18):
Yeah.
Speaker B (45:18):
So for me, it's.
It really just has to do with the unknown
period paranormal.
It doesn't matter what that manifests as it
can be.
And a lot of these spiritual experiences that
people have, these awakenings are alsoparanormal because, like, you saw an angel.
Well, that's paranormal.
Speaker A (45:36):
Yeah.
Speaker B (45:36):
It's. Just because it's an angel just doesn't mean.
Just because it's an angel doesn't mean thatit's not paranormal.
Absolutely.
It's outside or of the normal or unknown or
unexplained.
Not understood fully.
Like, you understand.
That's all paranormal to me.
Speaker A (45:52):
Yes. As a difficult subject to put into,
if you want to say a box.
Because there's just so much what your mindcan envision and your mind can imagine is the
paranormal.
Speaker B (46:07):
Yeah.
Speaker A (46:08):
From ghosts to spirits to portals to on and on and on.
There's just so.
So many different.
Yeah.
Speaker B (46:14):
So.
Speaker A (46:15):
So many different things.
So.
Yes.
So, again, such an awesome talk.
I loved it.
Speaker B (46:21):
Thank you.
Speaker A (46:23):
You know, before we wrap up here, Deborah, if you could tell my audience again
where they.
Where they could find you as well as,
you know, what you got coming up.
Speaker B (46:32):
You can always find me on my website, www.panormalparadigma.com.
i'm mostly on Instagram and TikTok, and asJohn pointed out, I am on YouTube.
Not as present there as I should be and willbe, but definitely you can find me there too.
But I respond, oh, and on threads.
(46:53):
So many people are finding me on threads now,
so.
Threads too.
So paranormal paradigma, across the board oneverything.
And feel free to DM me if you need a reading.
So I do medium readings, classic medium
readings, connecting you to your loved ones.
I even do pets now, apparently I do anything
really like it doesn't matter, whatever I canconnect to.
(47:14):
My specialty is connecting you to loved onesand obviously your spirit guides.
But apparently pets have been coming throughand that's been cute.
Speaker A (47:20):
Nice.
Speaker B (47:21):
And then I do subconscious healing work.
So if you need a healing session and you wantto start healing some of those subconscious
wounds, like if you do shadow work, a lot ofpeople who do shadow work come to me because
there's a certain point where, like, peoplejust can't.
They don't know where to go or how to moveforward.
Come over me and your guys will help you withsome of those deeper layers that you haven't
(47:45):
access.
And we can do some subconscious work or if
you're just starting,
come to Me. And we can do this.
And the way that I do it is through
mediumship.
So not only am I able to access certain truths
and knowledge from, you know, the ether, yourguides speak to you directly.
And I know that John has been a testament tothat.
Speaker A (48:03):
So, absolutely.
Speaker B (48:04):
This is really cool to be able to say this and know that a fellow friend has
done it with me and has had a good experience.
So come by medium reading or subconscious
healing session,
and we'll just take it from there.
Speaker A (48:18):
Yeah, yeah.
So please do that, you know, because it is
totally worth it.
And I'm not saying that because, you know,
I'm.
I'm close to Deborah and I'm like, just do it.
It's honestly a great,
great thing you can do.
I mean, I can't say enough for it.
And, you know, anytime she wants mytestimonial, she will get it.
(48:40):
So this will.
Before we wrap up here next week will be,
you know, of course, Halloween week.
So I will be releasing some scary stuff.
And.
And I will be releasing this video or I shouldsay episode on, you know, that week two of
trying to do everything,
you know, because, like, our Christmas, I liketo say.
Speaker B (49:02):
Yeah, I know, right?
Speaker A (49:04):
Because, like.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I mean, November.
Not to say November and December.
It's scary.
But, you know, this is our.
So I'll be releasing that.
And, you know, when you see this again, pleasereach out to Deborah and make sure that if
you're going through anything or you just wantto dm, just want to talk, please do it.
You won't regret it and everything.
And again, I can't say enough.
(49:24):
I love you, Deborah.
It's so much.
I'd love to have you on again.
And, you know, we'll talk more.
More fun stuff, so.
All right, well,
stay spooky.
Bye.
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