March 24, 2024 • 71 mins
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I am joined by my spooky friend Courtney from Hauntscast and co-host of the studiosinisterpod to discuss the Zone of Death and the mysterious park vanishings. Are you afraid of the woods? You will be!
Sources
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zone_of_Death_(Yellowstone) https://eightify.app/summary/true-crime/mysterious-disappearances-and-supernatural-forces-inside-national-parks https://www.grunge.com/76174/real-life-unsolved-mysteries-sound-fictional/ https://vocal.media/criminal/strange-disappearances-in-national-parksMark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker A (00:14):
Hello, my spooky friends.
I'm John, your host.
And welcome to another episode of DairylandFrights, the paranormal podcast that covers
everything spooky, creepy, and mysterious inthe Midwest.
And look who I have with me today.
My first guest I ever had on Dairyland brides,
Courtney from Haunts podcast.
Speaker B (00:37):
Thank you so much for having me.
I'm so happy to be back.
Speaker A (00:41):
I missed you because we had a great episode on the Anna Lyons house.
It's crazy.
I look back now and say, that was a year ago.
Speaker B (00:55):
Was it really? Yeah, that was a year ago.
Speaker A (00:58):
That was a year ago.
Speaker B (00:59):
Wow. Oh, my God. It's been such a long time.
I feel like we just recorded, right?And I mean, time flies.
Speaker A (01:07):
The funny thing is, Courtney and I, at that time, we're still.
Courtney's killing it right now.
Before I get started, please go listen to her
Haunts podcast.
It's amazing.
She does a great job.
Please give her five stars.
Like, and subscribe, because me too.
Okay.
Speaker B (01:25):
Yeah.
Speaker A (01:26):
Because we're independent.
We're independent podcasts, so she's a one man
army, just like me.
I also have a Patreon.
I don't know if you have a Patreon.
Speaker B (01:36):
I'm working to set one up, but I don't.
But either way, honestly, the most that Icould honestly ask for is just to listen and
review it or share it with people.
And thank you so much for shouting it out.
I really appreciate it.
Speaker A (01:49):
Oh, no problem.
Because again, we have our little coven here.
I always tell my guests, and I want to promoteus because we don't have the big studios and
the engineers and the lates sitting for us andthe assistants combing her hair.
Speaker B (02:04):
Yeah, I do have a late with me this morning, so if you hear ICE jingling some ASMR
for you.
Speaker A (02:11):
And not only that, she is co host on the studio sinister podcast with Farah.
So go, please listen to that.
Farah does a great job.
Speaker B (02:21):
She's amazing.
Speaker A (02:23):
She's amazing.
She has all these great stories and all this
great interaction things and stuff.
I like to keep it a little simple.
Maybe down the line I can get you guys level,but it's still amazing because everyone just
does something different, right?
Speaker B (02:38):
Yeah.
Speaker A (02:39):
You get a little writing.
Speaker B (02:41):
She makes it more of.
We say that it's an experience, it's not a
podcast.
And I think that's mainly just because of how
much dedication we both, but mainly Farah putsinto it.
She's the one who's filming it, creating allof the sort of interactive posts on social
media.
So if you see us out there, make sure to go
and give her some love, because she does somuch for that show.
(03:04):
And it truly shows with the level of, I guess,theatrics that come with it.
And I love it so much.
So I really appreciate that you're bringing it
up, but she really also just deserves a hugepat on the.
Speaker A (03:17):
Absolutely. Absolutely.
So our first show.
I don't know if you remember this, Courtney,but I reached out to my audience because you
were having trouble getting into your house.
You said you might have spirit that was
locking you up.
Give me an update on.
Speaker B (03:35):
So it's been really kind of crazy in here just over the last, I guess, year
since we spoke.
Like I said, we were kind of talking about it
beforehand, but we've been seeing shadowfigures around the property and just around
the house every once in a while.
Never, like, in direct line of sight.
Right.
(03:55):
But always kind of, like, out of the corner of
our eyes or we'll see something move.
We had a lot of poltergeist activity, I guess,
is the best way to describe it.
So, for example, I can't remember exactly when
this happened, but a while back, my husbandwas in the kitchen, and we had this bottle
(04:15):
opener, like, beer bottle opener that normallyhangs up on the wall, but we didn't have a
nail in place that we liked it at, so we endedup taking it down, and it was sitting kind of
behind our toaster just to stay up, and itflipped over the toaster and flung at him as
he was just, like, standing in the kitchen.
It's not like he was walking around or
(04:36):
anything like that.
He went in there, and I think he was about to
make a cup of coffee and got kind of, like,distracted by his phone or whatever, and just
something, like, flung it at him.
So that's happened a lot.
We've also had kind of, like, sinks and stuffturn on and off just randomly.
It's been pretty strange in this house, just,like, since I think we last talked.
(04:58):
I did an episode like our Halloween special onHaunts, talking about one of the spirits.
I think there's multiple here.
Sorry, I look, like, very washed out.
Let me.
There we go.
That's a little better.
We've had a lot of spirits, or I think that we
have a lot of spirits here, but one inparticular that I think is more just attached
(05:21):
to me is the bell witch.
I go into it in full detail, both on studio
sinister and on haunts.
So if you guys are interested, go check that
out.
But for simplicity's sake, I was recording the
episode on Haunts, and while I was recording,there was snow out on the ground.
It had recently snowed like eight to twelveinches somewhere in there.
(05:42):
And I caught on audio something walking in thesnow outside my window.
Because I'm recording right next to a window.
Right.
And so you can hear me probably.
I may have cut it out, but I ripped my
headphones off, got up and looked around,thinking maybe it's the neighbor's dog or
something like that.
There was nothing out there, and there were no
footprints in the sand.
I don't know what was or not sand, but snow.
(06:04):
I don't know what was making that noise, butit literally sounded like footsteps, heavy
footsteps walking in the snow right outsidethe window.
Speaker A (06:12):
Wow.
Speaker B (06:13):
So that's kind of the extent of it.
And then I will say recently my husband has
been getting not like, super sick, but he'sjust been very under the weather basically all
winter long.
And that might just be because it's cold here,
but we've had a very, by Montana standard,warm winter.
So that's been interesting and coinciding withthat same thing with Farah's husband.
(06:38):
Like, literally to the day, they were bothunder the weather and just feeling really off
and kind of freaked out by it because it justcame on out of nowhere.
Speaker A (06:47):
Sure.
Speaker B (06:48):
So, yeah, it's been strange, to say the least.
Speaker A (06:52):
Yeah, I guess so.
Yeah.
I was listening to you and Farah on studiosinister for a little while.
You guys were talking about that, and I waslike, that's interesting because I had a guest
on who told a story about his sister who wasmarried to this guy.
And I hope this doesn't happen to you or Farahwhen he was in the house.
(07:15):
He was a jerk.
Would just be just really yelling at her,
would get a little violent with her.
And finally she said, enough is enough getting
divorced.
Speaker B (07:27):
Right.
Speaker A (07:28):
But here's the thing.
When they were outside the house, he was fine.
The guy I was talking to was the brother inlaw.
And he's like, yeah, the guy was fine.
He was a super nice guy.
He was great.
But when he'd go in that house, immediately he
would change to this really big fat jerk,basically.
Speaker B (07:51):
Yeah. Hopefully that's like the negativity kind of aspect of it.
Nothing like that has happened here to eitherof us, thank God.
And I don't think, knock on wood, that itwill.
But, yeah, they say obviously that happens.
Like, if you're in have a negative attachment,
(08:11):
that it's going to affect you in a negativeway.
So that's sad.
But also, at the same time, it's not that
surprising that someone would be going throughthat.
Did they ever exercise?I guess you can't really exercise the home,
but get the home blessed.
Speaker A (08:29):
So according to him, they saged it.
Blessed it.
She obviously sewed off home and everything.
And he says, to this day, he's friends with
the guy and his sister's friends with him, andthey have a great relationship.
It's almost perfect.
(08:51):
The guy who got divorced, the husband and
everything, said, he will never go in thathouse again.
Never.
Speaker B (08:59):
Wow.
Speaker A (09:00):
When they were moving out, he would say, no, because she'd be like, hey, you got
to go get your shop.
And he would be like, no, put it on.
Speaker B (09:08):
I'm never going in there.
Speaker A (09:09):
He goes, put it on the driveway.
I'll get it later.
And she's like, somebody could steal it.
And she's like, he's like, I don't care.
Let him steal it.
I don't care.
Speaker B (09:17):
Yeah.
Speaker A (09:18):
And isn't that weird? I've heard that a couple of times where people
have.
Just being in a house just changes their
demeanor and their character.
I don't know.
Speaker B (09:29):
That is nuts.
Speaker A (09:30):
That is nuts.
Speaker B (09:31):
Especially him not wanting to go in there, too.
He must have known that it was somethingbeyond him.
Wow.
Speaker A (09:43):
No idea.
But it's so weird that the change, right.
And stuff like that.
It's just totally 180 from.
I've heard, too, where people, a lot ofpeople, too, have had paranormal investigators
would.
Had spirits attached to them.
And they'll come home and immediatelysomething's going on.
(10:07):
And then they'll sage the house, and they'lldo what they need to do or tell them, which
I've been told by every paranormalinvestigator.
If you have a spirit attached to you, youbasically don't yell at them and say, get out
of my house.
You say, look, this is my house.
I don't want you here.
You need to leave.
Okay.
You know what I mean?
Kind of like talking to maybe someone who'sbeen at a party too long.
Speaker B (10:32):
Yeah. Like they overstayed their.
Speaker A (10:34):
Like, you and your husband are like, okay, John, you can leave now.
And I'm like, no way, Courtney.
I'm going to get drunk.
Yeah.
Rob staying here.
Speaker B (10:43):
Time to go.
Speaker A (10:44):
I'm sleeping in the bathroom.
And you're like, okay, John, you can go now.
Speaker B (10:48):
Yeah, you don't want to sleep in the bathroom, though.
That's where all of the kind of crazy stuffhappens in our house.
Not all of it, but with it being the area,it's right next to the kitchen with all of the
pipes and the water that's running throughoutthe bathroom, the kitchen sink, and stuff like
that.
It seems that that corner of the house is
where all of the activity happens.
(11:08):
Like, another time, I didn't tell you about
this.
I don't think that I was in the bathroom
getting ready, and I saw something, like,smacking against the shower curtain, which mad
horror movie vibes.
So I'm looking at it in the mirror, and it's
like, okay, what's in there?Thinking, maybe it's my cat, because he likes
to spend time in the bathroom.
(11:29):
It's the warmest room of the house, so that
makes sense.
So I'm like, is he playing in the tubs?
Like, pull back the curtain.
No one's there.
The cat's not there.
So I immediately vacated the area because I
didn't want to be terrorized by whateverspirit was hiding in my shower.
But.
Speaker A (11:47):
I don't know what it is.
I've been getting a lot of bathroom stuff,
too, when you're most vulnerable.
I've had people where they've said they've
seen footprints, they've seen imprints on themirror.
They've seen voices.
Like, they'll be in the shower, and they'll
hear these really deep voices around them, andthey think it's the wife or maybe a friend
(12:14):
came over and they're talking, and thenthey'll be like, hey, guys, I'm going to be
out in a second.
Just wait.
And then we can talk about whatever you'retalking about.
And then they get out of the shower, andthere's nobody there.
Speaker B (12:24):
That's nuts.
The other thing, too, that we kind of
experienced, Farah.
And I think that there might be, suffice it to
say, some sort of connection between us, ormaybe a spirit going back and forth between
us, if that's possible, because we're havingsimilar activity.
She's also seeing shadow figures and stuff,and obviously, I'll let her speak to that for
(12:47):
herself.
But one time we were recording the episode for
the Omen house, and we're talking, and shedoesn't say anything to me while recording.
The second we're done recording, she hits endon the episode.
She's like, did you hear that voice?I didn't want to say anything because I didn't
want to freak you out because you were on aroll.
But did you hear it?And I'm like, no, what are you talking about?
(13:10):
We use descript to edit our episodes, and itimmediately populates a transcript with voices
and stuff.
So, like, voice one, voice two, voice three.
There was another voice at that part that shewas talking about, that descript caught and
made a transcript for.
And we were talking about my bathroom at that
(13:30):
point in the episode because I have one ofthose mirrors that opens up medicine cabinet,
and you always see in the horror movies whenpeople are closing it and then they open it
and then close it again.
There's a spirit behind them.
And I'm like, that would be my luck.
She was like, that's when I heard it.
I don't think it caught on audio, but sheheard it in the call, which means that it
would have had to come from my side if it's atrue EVP.
(13:52):
Right, right.
And then she caught it again in the actual
transcript.
I'm not sure if it caught on the audio itself,
to be honest.
I went back to listen and I was having trouble
hearing it, so I'm not 100% sure.
But that was wild because we were talking
about the ghost in our house, how weird mybathroom is.
(14:14):
And something said like, hi, or something likethat.
And it caught in the.
It's been.
It's been super.
Speaker A (14:24):
Fun of wild and super fun.
Speaker B (14:30):
Courtney, I just can't.
Speaker A (14:33):
Courtney, here's something for you.
A little teaser about the topic we're going to
talk about.
The zone of death is a 50 square mile area in
Idaho section of Yellowstone National park, inwhich, as a result of a reported loophole in
(14:55):
the constitution of the United States, aperson, by the way, Courtney and John, in our
podcast, and everybody did not recommend thisand do not support this at all, may
theoretically avoid conviction for any majorcrime up to and including murder.
(15:17):
So please don't murder anybody.
Speaker B (15:19):
Yeah.
Speaker A (15:20):
Also, what if I told you that there are some, which we will cover, some mysterious
part banishings that haven't been solved tothis day?
Right.
Speaker B (15:33):
I've said this before, I think both on haunts as well as on studio sinister, that
Yellowstone is probably one of the mosthaunted places out here.
For those of you guys who don't know where I'mlocated, I'm like 30 to 45 minutes from the
park.
I go there all the time, and I've never had an
experience there, but I've heard so many ghoststories that it has to just be one of the
(15:59):
creepiest places, especially just when theweather starts getting kind of colder and
darker and it's like, eerie out there.
I don't know.
Yellowstone is.
Speaker A (16:08):
Yeah. Yeah. And that's crazy that you live so close and everything like that so
you could go and check it out if you want to.
So before we get started, I'm going to do a
little bit of sources here really quickly.
So Wikipedia was a good one.
That's always a helpful one.
Then the 85 app that talked about true stories
(16:29):
of serious disappearances and crimes andsupernatural forces, it was a really good one.
Grunge.com, which was really interesting, gaveme a bunch of cool stuff.
And then there was one called vocal media thattalked about disappearances and a little bit
of the zone of death.
So we're going to divide this episode, folks,
into my spooky friends.
(16:50):
We're going to talk about zone of death, and
then Courtney and I would talk about somemysterious disappearances and kind of give our
opinion upon what do we think happened tothose people and give our opinion on the zone
of death.
So, like I said, the zone of death is like a
constitutional loophole, which is, I don'tknow about you, Courtney, but kind of cracks
(17:11):
me up.
That's a loophole in the constitution.
Speaker B (17:14):
Yeah. To me, it's kind of just a very ambiguous area of this region of the
United States.
It shouldn't be able to exist, and yet it
does.
And obviously, we can't pull parts of a
national park out of the park.
(17:34):
But at the same time, there needs to be some
sort of precedent set other than like, this isa free for all Hunger games sort of arena.
Kind of.
Speaker A (17:46):
Mean the big alarms going off and people running.
Speaker B (17:49):
Seriously?
Speaker A (17:50):
Yeah. So you people are probably, my spooky friends are probably saying, hey,
John, I thought you do stories from theMidwest.
Well, that's not true.
We tried to do some stories, but the reason I
brought this story up, because it was done bya Michigan.
It was found out, discovered, excuse me, by aMichigan State university law professor.
So there we go.
(18:11):
That's Midwest.
Speaker B (18:12):
I didn't know that.
Speaker A (18:13):
His name was Brian C. Cole and he was planning to write an essay about the
technicalities of the 6th Amendment and whichentitles criminal defendants to have a fair
and quick trial.
So that's your 6th amendment.
You can ask for a fair and quick trial.
You still, like three years down the road.
So Colts wondered about a hypothetical placewhere there were not enough eligible citizens
(18:41):
to form a jury and theorized there could be notrial and therefore no punishment for any
major crimes in that area.
He later realized that there was such a place,
the Idaho section of Yellowstone Nationalpark.
(19:04):
This guy just did it by accident.
He was doing an essay and he was like, I
wonder if there's an area where there's justnot enough people to be your peers.
And you could ask for a jury trial.
And they say, no, we don't have enough people.
And you go, well, fine, I'm free.
Speaker B (19:24):
And again, you.
And I don't condone this, but in a purely
technical kind of standpoint.
Speaker A (19:35):
How.
Speaker B (19:35):
Do I put this? I guess it's unconstitutional.
Like, you have to have a jury of your peers,and you have a right to a speedy trial.
Speaker A (19:43):
Correct.
Speaker B (19:44):
And the thing about it is, too, I don't know if you've looked at it on a map,
but I have.
It's like, out in the middle of nowhere.
There are no trails to it.
You know what mean?
Like, it's in the remote part of Yellowstone,so there are a lot of different roads and
different little legit boardwalks going aroundthat you can walk on.
And it's a pretty easy park to traverse.
(20:06):
But then there are other parts of the park
that are very dense and just nearly impossibleto get to.
And one of them is that section.
And it's just like a sliver of Idaho that it
almost feels like you should just, like, Iguess, draw the state line so that it's in
(20:27):
either Montana or Wyoming, so that thisdoesn't.
I mean, can you even do that realistically?
Speaker A (20:36):
Yeah, and we'll get to that.
So he's horrified by his realization, shifted
his focus to writing an essay about the areato persuade the government to fix the
loophole.
By the way, you could read this essay.
It is entitled the Perfect Crime, and it waspublished.
(20:57):
I've seen this, 2005.
Oh, have you?
Speaker B (20:59):
I've seen it.
Yeah. So I did an episode a while back on the
yellowstone old Faithful Inn.
I forget the name of it exactly.
Speaker A (21:06):
Oh, sure.
Speaker B (21:07):
But I kind of touched on the zone of death in it, like in that episode.
And I want to say I use that as a source.
I think I've read this essay.
Speaker A (21:18):
Nice.
Speaker B (21:20):
It's interesting, for sure.
Speaker A (21:21):
Yeah. So I got to read it.
I'm going to read it.
I have it marked bookmark, and I'm going toread it.
I didn't have time before the show, but I'mdefinitely going to read it.
So Colt feared that criminals might read thisessay and commit a crime in the zone before
the loophole was fixed.
Speaker B (21:39):
Right.
Speaker A (21:40):
Could you imagine that? You're a murderer.
All right, let's say you're a serial killer.
Right?
And you're going, wait a minute.
Interesting.
Speaker B (21:55):
I do think that would be my main concern with writing it.
I think morally, there is a reason to write itthat way.
It can be fixed, especially if you come acrossit or at least bring it to the attention of
someone who can fix the problem.
But also, I can see why there were
reservations there, because people are evil.
Unfortunately, not in a general sense, but
(22:17):
there are very evil people, and you don't wantthat information getting in the wrong hands.
Speaker A (22:22):
No, absolutely.
And the funny thing, too, is I used to watch a
show, and I don't know why I watched a showand why everyone watched this show, because
it's very popular.
It was called Dexter, and Dexter was a show
about a serial killer who killed people whoslipped through the cracks of the legal
system.
(22:44):
And anyway, I remember watching that show, and
he would always, at the end of the show, killsomebody and then chop them up and then put
them in bags, and he would throw them in this.
He'd throw them in the ocean off the coast of
Florida.
And I was like, okay.
(23:05):
And I wonder if there's a guy out therethinking, or woman.
By the way, women can be serial killers too.
Let's not be judgmental people who would know.
Speaker B (23:18):
Yeah, you don't want to give people.
Speaker A (23:19):
But you never know.
Speaker B (23:21):
Yeah, you don't want to give people any bad ideas.
But to be honest, I've never watched Dexter.
Everyone tells me I should because it's, like,
right up my alley, but I've never watched it.
Kind of on that same vein, though, if you've
never seen the show, Barry, I'm binging itright now.
Speaker A (23:38):
Oh, I love.
Speaker B (23:39):
That show is nuts.
Speaker A (23:40):
Yeah, I love.
Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker B (23:43):
It's so good.
Speaker A (23:44):
If you're watching Dexter, this is going to happen.
Courtney, just a quick side topic.
Speaker B (23:49):
Okay.
Speaker A (23:49):
I will guarantee you do this, because everyone did this.
I told him I recommended the show too.
You'll watch the pilot, and you'll go, like, I
don't get it.
And you'll stop, and then one day you'll be
sitting there and go, I don't know.
Let me try it again.
And you're hooked.
Speaker B (24:03):
Let me give it a shot.
Speaker A (24:04):
I don't know what it is.
I don't know what it is.
But everybody who's done that, everybody Idon't.
Speaker B (24:14):
Go. Might try to go find it just to see, because I don't have a show to, like,
we're binging, Barry, right now.
Like my husband and I are.
Speaker A (24:23):
Yes.
Speaker B (24:23):
But I want just a show to watch in my spare time or while I research, because I
can't do one thing at a time.
So I might give it a shot, see how it goes.
I'll let you know.
Speaker A (24:37):
Let me know.
Let me know.
So, after Colt discovered the loophole, heworked to have Congress close it.
He suggested the lawmakers in Wyoming that thezone of death be included as a part of the
federal district court for the District ofIdaho instead of the Wyoming district, which
would, I guess, fix the issue.
(24:59):
However.
Oh, Congress.
They ignored Colt suggestion.
And in 2007, author which.
I have to read this book that's on my
bookmark, too.
C. J. Box wrote a novel called Free Fire that
featured the zone, which Box hoped wouldincrease governmental awareness.
(25:25):
The novel did succeed in alerting Wyomingsenator Mike Enzi to the issue.
But Enzi.
Here we go again.
Courtney was unable to convince Congress todiscuss.
Speaker B (25:42):
Mean like, this seems like a pressing issue, right?
Speaker A (25:46):
And they're just going, okay, whatever, it's fine.
Here's the good news.
Courtney and my spooky friends.
No known felonies have been committed in thezone of death since good discovery.
However, in December of 2005, a poacher namedMichael Beldrain, or Belderain, illegally shot
(26:12):
an elf in Montana section of Yellowstone,where you live.
While that section of the park does haveenough residents to form a jury, it might be
difficult to put together a standing and fairone due to the travel and unwillingness of
members of small populations there to serve.
(26:33):
So a federal judge ruled that Belderain could
be tried in the US district court for thedistrict of Wyoming, despite the 6th amendment
problem.
So Beldera cited Colt's paper, the perfect
crime, to explain why he believed.
(26:57):
Why he believed it was illegal to have his
trial with a jury from another state where thecrime was committed.
The court dismissed.
This is really weird, the argument, though,
and Bell rain took a plea deal conditionedsuch that he would not appeal the zone of
death to the 10th Circuit, rendering the issuemoot, at least for the time being.
Speaker B (27:27):
There is something to be said about that area.
So here's the thing.
If he shot it in the area that I think he did,
which is during bugling season, very high elkpopulation density, maybe.
I don't think that you can shoot elk duringthat time period, but I'm assuming they're
like in that area, right?Or I guess if he was poaching, then it doesn't
(27:48):
really matter what time of year he was doingthat, because he was doing it illegally.
But that area of Montana is basicallypopulated by people who work for the park.
So it's like park rangers and admin and stuff.
It's a very small kind of, I hate to say town,
(28:09):
because it's really not even a town.
It literally has a post office, some
restaurants for just people coming into thepark.
And then I think it's the mammoth hot springsand that's it.
So I can imagine that it would literally beeverybody who lives in that area would have to
go and be on that jury.
(28:31):
So I can see the argument.
But also at the same time, could they not pullpeople from other parts of the county?
You know what I mean?Because it goes all the way up to where I'm at
and even past where we are.
So there's enough, I would say, in the county
to do that.
But I also don't really understand the laws
surrounding.
So.
Speaker A (28:51):
Yeah, right.
So what's interesting to me is I read some
recent information and the Idaho senator isstill trying to push this through.
There's people from Wyoming and Montana stillpushing this through.
But really the reason Congress has, eh,whatever, is just because they're like,
(29:14):
really?Is anybody really going to do this?
So it's one of those things, once it's doneand someone is murdered there, then they'll do
something.
Speaker B (29:24):
Yeah, but then that to me is just basically saying, like, come and try us.
You know what I mean?Like, see what you can get away with, which is
especially someone who lives over here, kindof terrifying because you don't want, again,
anyone to get the wrong ideas and see how farthey can push the envelope.
(29:50):
So I don't think necessarily just waiting forit to happen is the best case scenario.
You should be trying to prevent it.
Speaker A (29:57):
Right.
Speaker B (29:58):
It's interesting.
Speaker A (29:59):
Yeah. So Courtney and I are not really true crime.
We might do some kind of true crime.
It's more like paranormal true crime, I would
say.
But I'm going to run this by some of my true
crime guests I've had on and ask them whatthey think because I think it's really being
that, well, it's kind of weird.
Nothing's really happened there except for
(30:20):
approaching.
But being that this is such a loophole and
everyone's dragging their feet on it, just tosay, basically, I dare you.
Speaker B (30:30):
Yeah, literally, it's like, see what?
**** around and find out.
Literally, come find out what will happen.
Because it doesn't seem like there's muchgoing on in the way of preventing any sort of
crime from occurring.
And like you said, well, I do love true crime,
but I'm not the kind of person who covers iton my show, or you for that matter.
(30:54):
But it is something to think about becausewhen you have an area like that that obviously
has such a negative connotation to it, thenit's only going to attract in negative energy
in an area that is supposedly already veryenergy dense when it comes to paranormal
activity.
Speaker A (31:12):
Absolutely.
Speaker B (31:13):
So I don't know, I just feel like it's a nightmare waiting to happen.
Speaker A (31:18):
Right.
I know.
And it's just one of those things where it'skind of like in a horror movie, right.
It's pretty much any horror movie wherethere's a monster involved or Jason or
Michael.
Someone comes running into the house.
(31:38):
Right.
Wherever goes.
Oh, my God.
Oh, my God.
Jason killed somebody and then everyone just.
There's a monster right there and everyone's.
Yeah, until the monster comes in and rips yourflesh off and eats you.
Speaker B (31:56):
It's very cabin in the woods for me.
I don't know if you've ever seen that movie,but I absolutely love that movie.
It's like the idea of it is supposed to belike a good horror movie in its own right, but
also at the same time kind of a satire for allof the horror movie tropes that come up time
and time again throughout that genre.
And I think it does a really great job of
(32:17):
doing both.
But to your point, they're all literally
messing around with stuff that's veryobviously going to.
You go down in this basement and you findliterally a bunch of basically paranormal
stuff, like artifacts, and you're playing withit.
What did you expect?And then they're just hanging out waiting for
(32:37):
it to happen.
Speaker A (32:39):
Right.
It was the same thing with this.
Anything else to add?Should we get to mysterious disappearance in
National Park?
Speaker B (32:50):
I think that that's like, the main thing.
I know that there's never been a felony there.
I knew that going in.
Other than that one poaching incident, I'dnever heard of that.
But I always come back to the idea of, like,this must be part of the reason why
Yellowstone is so haunted.
And it's not just that area, it's a huge park,
(33:12):
and there's so many different spirits said tobe haunting there.
And I just think that if there were ever goingto be a zone of death per se, it would be in
Yellowstone National park.
But I'm excited about mysterious
disappearances.
That is like my guilty pleasure when it comes
(33:32):
to true crime.
So take it away.
Speaker A (33:36):
Yeah. By the way, zone of death, great name for a band.
I don't know why, but my band.
Speaker B (33:42):
Zone of death, actually trademarked that.
Don't let anyone take it.
Speaker A (33:49):
So today I'm just going to cover some bigger disappearances.
By the way, if you want to go and look at someof the stats, how many people disappear in our
national parks, it's mind blowing.
It's unbelievable.
Now, some of them are because, and this iswhat I always tell people, you're smart and
(34:15):
you and your husband go hiking and stuff, butwhen you leave somewhere, you always tell
someone, hey, I'm hiking.
If I'm not back by 02:00 you need to go look
for me.
And a lot of disappearances is like me getting
up in the morning and let's say me, yourhusband, and you were all camping together.
(34:37):
And I say, hey, Courtney, I'm going to go andI'll see you later.
Speaker B (34:42):
You don't give any information.
Speaker A (34:44):
I don't give anything information.
And then you're like, you and your husband,
like, John should have been back by now.
It's like 06:00.
It's too late.
Maybe I tripped, maybe I slipped.
Something happened, right?
Speaker B (34:55):
It's also worth mentioning that Yellowstone is the place to be if you want to
see.
So, like, for example, we went there.
My brother was in town last June, and hereally wanted to go into the park and just see
some stuff because every other time he's goneto the really basic grand prismatic and the
(35:18):
old faithful and all that kind of stuff, andhe wanted to see more of just like the random
kind of like offshoot roads of Yellowstone.
And we saw like three or four grizzly bears
just like hanging out.
And fortunately, it was like right after they
woke up from hibernation.
So they basically binge eat and then go back
(35:39):
to sleep just wherever they're at.
So they were all kind of like catatonic, but
that is the place to go.
There were so many people there just with
those huge telephoto lenses, taking picturesof them.
So I bring that up because I'm assuming youcould really come across easily like a bear, a
(36:03):
wolf, a moose, something that can do a lot ofdamage.
And I think probably a lot of thedisappearances, too, unfortunately, or not
even disappearances, but just deaths andinjuries come from wildlife.
So, yeah, that's like a huge thing toconsider.
And also, if you guys are going toYellowstone, do not approach the bison.
(36:25):
I cannot tell you how many times a year we getlocal news saying someone has approached them
and unfortunately gotten hurt or worse.
So just don't approach the wildlife, please.
Speaker A (36:37):
There you go, my spooky friends.
Courtney, safety tip when you're visiting
Montana.
Okay, so the first one we're going to talk
about is, well, John Doe.
And this is perhaps the most baffling of all
strange disappearances in national park.
And this is really strange because it's a
(37:01):
disappearance and reappearance and that'susually does not happen.
And it was a young boy known only as John Doe.
So John Doe was mentioned in, and I don't know
if you guys ever listened to George Knapp.
It's coast to coast.
He's this famous guy.
He's been on forever.
If you get a chance to listen to him, he haspeople on there that you're like, whoa.
(37:24):
Okay.
I'm not sure if I have a guest podcast on my
show, but it's interesting.
Speaker B (37:28):
That podcast is wild.
It's a really good show.
Speaker A (37:32):
Yeah. And he's been on there forever and ever.
He's the staple.
He's like the grandfather of all paranormal
strange stuff.
He's been around and.
Get a listen to it.
Listen to the podcast.
Speaker B (37:42):
Yeah.
Speaker A (37:44):
But according to the interview, three year old John Doe was last seen near a
fly fishing river and then he promptlyvanished for 5 hours.
A search party found him days unharmed in themiddle of a grove of trees.
Now this is John Doe's story.
Now remember, this is a little kid, but some
(38:05):
of the stuff is like Courtney.
I'm like, wow, this is a pretty good
imagination for a little kid.
Speaker B (38:10):
But anyway, the one that, like, I don't know if you've seen, I know he went
missing in Montana.
I don't know if he's the same one, but he was
a three year old who went missing for a couplehours, maybe a couple days.
And they show a picture of him in all of thearticles before and then afterwards.
He looks really traumatized.
(38:32):
Sadly, he has red hair.
Is this the same kid?
Speaker A (38:36):
I don't think so.
Speaker B (38:37):
Okay, that story is wild.
He like, went missing.
I think he went missing randomly somewherehere in Montana.
And I think he was gone for like three days.
That's who I thought you were talking about.
But he came back.
I don't know what his story is or anything
like that, other than the fact that he wasfound and it happened right after we moved
(39:00):
here.
So I've always wondered and hope that he's
okay because I imagine that he saw some ****out there, if you know what I mean.
Speaker A (39:08):
Yeah. So the little boy said he followed a woman who looked like his
grandmother to a mountain.
He then found himself in a room that had a
bunch of motionless robots and weapons lyingall over a dusty floor.
The boy then claimed that he noticed a strangeglow coming from the strange old woman's head.
(39:34):
And then most puzzlingly of all, she asked himto defecate on a piece of paper.
Yeah.
I love this story.
And then the boy claimed she got agitated andaggressive when he refused to do so.
(39:54):
Okay, it gets weird.
Speaker B (39:57):
It gets weirder than this?
Speaker A (39:58):
Yes. Okay. The woman then said that the boy was.
Well, the woman.
This is kind of confused.
She is from outer space, actually.
The woman said.
I'm sorry, let me go back.
The woman claims that the boys from outer
(40:19):
space, that she was planted in his mother'swomb.
She then told him to go and wait in the treesuntil he was found.
Speaker B (40:30):
What was he, like, a star child? Have you ever heard of those?
Or star seeds, I think is what they're called?
Speaker A (40:37):
Yeah, something like that.
Speaker B (40:39):
Whoa.
Speaker A (40:40):
Okay, so no one has any idea where the boy was when he disappeared?
Like, there's no tracks, there's no nothing.
Okay, so it'd be so easy to say that the
disappearance of John Doe was just a child'sor overactive imagination.
However, there is something very bizarre aboutthis disappearance case that gives credence to
(41:03):
John Doe's insane story.
His grandmother, who had been gone camping
with him, claimed that she was dragged out ofher tent late at night.
She woke up to a strange pain in the base ofher neck and found two small holes near the
back of her head.
Speaker B (41:23):
No way.
Speaker A (41:25):
Yeah. So.
Speaker B (41:31):
I was hoping that you were.
I was hoping you were going to tell me a UFO
story or an alien abduction story.
And you came, like right out the gate with a
very intense one.
Speaker A (41:42):
Yes.
Speaker B (41:43):
So, like, was she abducted the grandma?
Speaker A (41:46):
Sure.
Speaker B (41:48):
That's what we're thinking.
Speaker A (41:50):
So what I'm thinking is the aliens possessed her.
Follow me on this one.
It's going to get weird.
Aliens possessed her.
She then basically is like, invasion of the
body statue.
She then mimic or whatever horror movie.
She then came back and said, hey, john Doe,come with me.
(42:13):
And they probably went to like a cabinsomewhere or some, you know what, somewhere
far away.
Who knows?
You probably know places like this has dustyweapons on the floor.
Maybe it's an abandoned cabinet, I don't know.
And then the alien was like, I need a sample,
so I need you.
Speaker B (42:33):
Yeah, well, that's what I was going to say.
Speaker A (42:34):
Dump on this paper.
And then when the little boy goes, what,
grandma?And she's like, do it.
He's like, no.
Speaker B (42:45):
And she's like, no, I don't want the body.
Speaker A (42:48):
Alien possessing.
He's like, and then, yeah, I was.
Speaker B (42:54):
Going to say, as gross as it is, unless he was just making it up.
I really find it hard to believe that a kidthat young would be able to make up a story
as, like, they can make stuff up, obviously,but this seems out there, even for a child.
Speaker A (43:18):
Why would the grandma be like, someone dragged me out of the tent.
Speaker B (43:24):
Right.
Well, it's like it happened not the same time,
but all, like.
It seems like a very linear series of events
that seems connected to me.
I don't know what to make of that.
Creeps me out.
Speaker A (43:42):
Yeah, I know.
So, like, what happened to them?
I think we both agree.
Not really sure.
Yeah.
Okay, let's go to the next one.
So while many strange disappearances in thenational parks can be explained by kidnappers,
by the way, that's becoming a big thing.
Sex trafficking and child trafficking.
Speaker B (44:04):
Yeah. Sadly, it's really prevalent out here, so that's sad.
I'm not surprised by that.
Speaker A (44:14):
Yeah. And it seems like what most people agreed that this is like out of this
world.
Not really sure what happened, but it's good
that the kid is safe.
I think he wrote a book about it when he got
older.
I'm not really sure.
I'll double check that because everybodywrites a book.
Speaker B (44:34):
When did this happen?
Speaker A (44:40):
I think it was like 19.
Wasn't recent.
It was like 70s.
It wasn't recent.
Speaker B (44:50):
Whoa. Okay. Yeah, that's even more interesting.
Okay.
Yeah.
If you come across the book, let me know.
I want to read that.
Speaker A (44:58):
Yeah, I'll share that with you.
So this one is Alfred Biohearts.
Take a shot at that.
And this one happened in 1938.
And yes, it's another kid, but this one isreally strange.
So in 1938, four year old Alfred wasvacationed with his family in the Colorado
(45:19):
Rocky Mountain National park.
His parents were watching him carefully.
Now, remember this, as they went out for aquick hike near the river, then, without
warning or trace, he vanished.
It is one of the most strange appearances in
the national park.
So basically what has happened?
(45:40):
Parents are.
Well, I used to do this too, with my kids.
Be walking in the park and I look back, therehe is on the monkey bars.
So this is crazy.
He was only feet.
They don't say how many feet away from hisfamily when he was gone.
So if they're saying feet, let's say, I don'tknow, 100ft, 50ft.
It's still not long, right?
Speaker B (46:01):
No. Yeah, it's in eyesight.
The thing is too.
I think that's kind of crazy.
My husband and I talk about this all the time.
People will step off the trail to go to thebathroom, which is pretty normal.
People do that in national parks versus tryingto hunt down one of those basically glorified
(46:22):
porta potties.
And then it's not like they get turned around.
It's just they completely.
By the time that they make it back to where
their family is, the family's gone, and thenit turns into a whole missing person's case.
And it seems like they almost, like timelinejump or reality jump when they're in these
places.
(46:43):
I don't know if that's what you're getting to
here, but it seems almost like he was justpicked up and moved somewhere else.
Speaker A (46:50):
Yeah. So this weird, interesting.
You say that a six mile search of the area
where he disappeared showed nothing.
However, dogs were able to trace his scent
500ft uphill from where he vanished.
The only problem, Courtney, was there were no
(47:10):
footprints and no Alfred to be seen.
Stranger.
The dogs that traced the scent seemed to beconfused by what they were smelling, and then
they quickly lost the scent.
Then again, once dogs traced the scent uphill,
the two began to **** their heads and lookednervous.
(47:34):
Eventually, both bloodhounds ended up lyingdown on the ground, unable to go any further
on the trail.
So these dogs were, like, smelling.
Oh, here it is.
Wait a minute.
There's nothing here.
Okay.
And then the dogs were like, wait a minute,there's something over there.
And then.
Forget it.
I'm not going there.
(47:56):
And they lay down, refused to move.
They would not go.
Speaker B (47:59):
Right.
Or the other thing, too, is they could be
marking that this is where he is, because Ithink dogs like search dogs.
They'll sit or have some sort of command whenthey.
And don't quote me on this because I'm not100% sure, but I'm thinking that that's the
case.
They mark where it is that the person was last
(48:20):
seen, or maybe the scent ran out.
Speaker A (48:22):
Sure.
Speaker B (48:22):
Which is.
That is nuts.
It really feels like he was just picked up andmoved to, or maybe not even picked up, but
just dissolved into a different timeline or adifferent reality.
Speaker A (48:37):
Right.
Speaker B (48:37):
I hate that.
Speaker A (48:40):
Alarmingly, some hikers who were waiting, walking 6 miles away from where
Alfred disappeared, claimed they saw a youngboy in a particularly dangerous and difficult
to reach rock outcropping called the devil'snest.
And the two hikers said that they had onlyseen the boy minutes after he allegedly
(49:06):
disappeared.
Stranger, they claimed the boy seemed to be
dazed and upset, but then appeared to bejerked back by an unknown voice.
Speaker B (49:18):
You jerked back as in, like.
Speaker A (49:24):
The blue boys looking out, and then the lady.
Someone grabbed you.
Speaker B (49:30):
Oh, my God. Okay.
Speaker A (49:32):
You don't see who it was that grabbed it?
Speaker B (49:35):
Well, it's an unseen force, something not someone pulled him.
Speaker A (49:40):
So one of the things they said here, it would make total sense is a four year
old boy would not reasonably or logically beable to travel 6 miles uphill over 3000ft on
his own.
Even survival specialists who searched for him
needed specialized equipment to get up there.
Speaker B (50:03):
Also, Rocky Mountain National park is, excuse the pun, but those hikes are no
walk in the park.
They can be pretty intense.
I can't imagine that a four year old, I don'teven think I could do that.
And I'm a seasoned hiker.
How long did you say?
Like five minutes?
Speaker A (50:26):
Well, they said they traveled.
He went up 3000ft and traveled 6 miles on his
own.
Speaker B (50:35):
Okay. I mean, obviously I can do that.
But you said it was like within around thesame time.
Right.
Speaker A (50:41):
They found the scent 500ft.
Speaker B (50:44):
Okay.
Speaker A (50:45):
The dogs picked up his scent, but then they couldn't pick it up.
And then these two hikers are like, what theheck is a little boy doing on top of that
double?
Speaker B (50:58):
Right. And I'm sure obviously it's possible for people who are adults who hike a
lot.
Sorry, I don't know why I was thinking that it
was like simultaneous, but for a four yearold, no, that is not possible.
Speaker A (51:15):
Right.
And the other thing that's not possible, let's
say he was abducted.
Well, that dude has to be booking it, right?
Speaker B (51:22):
And carrying the kid.
Speaker A (51:26):
Who'S screaming, by the way.
I don't know if you've ever like, my kids,
once they would see a stranger, they wouldscream their head off, which was a good thing,
but it didn't have to be a stranger.
It would just be like my daughter would
sometimes see like we'd be at a restaurant andthere'd be a guy that just come up there and
(51:47):
my daughter didn't like people with beards.
I don't know why anybody with a beard freaked
her out.
When she was like four or five years old,
she'd be like, my nephew.
Speaker B (51:55):
Is the same way.
Yeah.
Speaker A (51:58):
And I'd be like, okay.
And the guy would be like, whoa, whoa, whoa,
whoa.
Right?
The kid's probably going to scream.
The parents are going to be like, what's going
on?And then he's got a book.
It like run 6 miles.
Speaker B (52:15):
Kind of a precarious area.
Speaker A (52:16):
Yeah.
Speaker B (52:21):
I guess it's possible that he could have been abducted, but to me that doesn't
seem as, I guess, there.
To me, there isn't really very many logical
explanations for this.
It just like how did he get up there?
Speaker A (52:36):
Yeah, right.
Speaker B (52:37):
I don't.
Speaker A (52:42):
Of things have been talked about that a cryptid did some type of cryptid in
that area, which I don't know, Coloradocryptids very well that grabbed it, grabbed
the boy.
Speaker B (52:55):
I can't.
I mean, that's not Pacific Northwest enough to
be.
Yeah, I don't really know very much about
Colorado cryptozoology either.
I guess if you guys know me at all, I'm not a
huge believer when it comes to cryptozoology.
(53:15):
I think they're great stories, but I always
find them a little bit harder to believe.
But I do want to be proven wrong.
So if anyone has heard this story and hasevidence to believe that it is a cryptid, let
me know, because I would love to be mystifiedin that way.
But I'm thinking I keep just all of these justmake me feel like alien abduction.
Speaker A (53:39):
Right? So the next one, Dennis Martin, and yes, it's
another kid because these are the most famousones.
There were some couples, but I'm like, I knowthis sounds kind of weird to say, but if
you're an adult and you can't figure out howto get out of something, I'm kind of like,
(54:00):
well, to me it's scary, yes, but it's still.
Speaker B (54:04):
The adult ones are a little bit easier to explain away with, just like they
got.
I mean, obviously kids get lost and stuff, but
usually there's like several people, like inthis recent story that are hyper vigilant of
where their kid is.
So when someone is physically watching them
and within a split second they're no longerthere, that is way more difficult to explain
(54:29):
than an adult who was just by themselveshiking in the woods.
Speaker A (54:33):
Correct.
Speaker B (54:33):
You know what I mean? Not that isn't tragic in its own right.
Speaker A (54:38):
And I'll get to some stories, just really quick things that people have seen that
have been crazy.
So perhaps one of the most famous strange
disappearance in national parks happened in1969.
By the way, thank God for cell phones, forInternet cell phones, satellite phones.
You basically had a walkie talkie with thedistance of 50ft.
Speaker B (55:00):
Right.
And like a map that is poorly drawn.
Speaker A (55:06):
So this happened to six year old Dennis Martin was vacationing with his family
in the middle of the great Smoky mountains.
By the way, this place hella haunted.
Speaker B (55:17):
The great Smoky mountains are like the to.
When I was living back in Georgia, we would goto Smoky Mountain National park probably once
a year for like five years.
That is the most visited national park in
America and it's one of the most haunted aswell.
They say that all of them are and sure, Iguess.
(55:39):
But I can believe that that one is super******* haunted.
Speaker A (55:44):
Yeah, absolutely.
So while his parents were talking to.
I guess it says another adult.
I don't know why they say that.
Dennis's brother and some kids decided itwould be funny to play a prank on his.
And this is where it starts.
They all decide to split up.
Bad move.
And hide and jump out to scare their parents
(56:06):
in a harmless prank.
Okay, fine.
So three of the boys went one way and Denniswent the other.
Why didn't someone go with Dennis?I don't know.
Speaker B (56:15):
Right.
Speaker A (56:15):
Four kids hid, but only three jumped out.
Denis just vanished.
And that was the last anyone ever saw of him?
Speaker B (56:25):
No.
Speaker A (56:26):
Yeah. So six from sense field, a young boy screamed and claimed that he saw
what first looked like a bear, but then lookedlike a large man with something strange slung
over his shoulder.
A frantic search party started almost
(56:47):
immediately, but no trace of Denis was found.
The search party lasted until night, when
torrential rain washed away any scent thatcould potentially been used by the bloodhound
to find the missing child.
Within the subsequent days, the FBI, the green
berets, the police, and just about every formof official aid were dispatched to find Dennis
(57:12):
Farton.
But no footprints or articles of clothing
belonging to him ever showed up.
What's bizarre about this case is the
government's reaction to it.
The leader of the FBI group who organized the
search committed suicide for unknown reasons.
Okay.
Another special forces member by the name ofHarold Cleveland later stated in 2014, in
(57:39):
which he said something paranormal must havebeen afoot.
In a statement he sent to the news of theweird, he wrote, quote, our special forces are
never called to assist in civilian operations.
That falls local National Guard and is
approved by the state governor.
(58:01):
The fact that they were armed as well is
another huge no no. During my command andevery other mission, I was aware we were not
allowed by federal protocol to do either.
Something is very wrong with this missing kid
scenario.
(58:21):
I've done some research on the case, both
while active duty and after my retirement.
And the inside facts of this case depict a
frightening investigation.
The bottom line is that searching started
within a few minutes of the boy'sdisappearance and lasted three months with
(58:43):
every resource imaginable being deployed.
Don't even start with the terrain was
difficult.
Holes and caves, cliffs, creeks, et cetera.
Our special troops can find almost anything,anytime and in any terrain.
We have the highest technology availableworldwide and easily the best training and
(59:07):
real world wartime and mission specificexperience that the normal civilian populace
can scarcely imagine.
After studying this case, the fact that no
trace of the boy was ever found is mindboggling.
The green berets that were tasked this searchwere there for a specific reason.
(59:28):
They were armed for a specific reason.
I can't and won't say why because my old
documents won't allow.
But I will remind you of these facts.
Nationwide, there have only been fouroccasions where the special forces were
brought in on civilian missing case.
(59:49):
Two of them involved a possible armed
perpetrator.
The other two were this case, similar to about
three years ago and regionally nearby.
This is out of thousands of missing cases
since the early 60s, when our special troopswere born.
(01:00:09):
In other words, there's something potentiallyterrifying about living in national parks
related to all the strange incidents.
We civilians don't know what it is, but
judging by the note that he wrote, okay, weprobably don't know what's out there.
(01:00:30):
He's a special forces guy, and he's, like,saying, we're not supposed to be armed when
we're doing a search.
We've never been called into this.
It goes to the National Guard, and thegovernor has to approve this.
Speaker B (01:00:41):
Right.
Speaker A (01:00:42):
And the FBI's there, too.
For a six year old kid that.
Speaker B (01:00:48):
It'S, to me, the thing where it's like, it looks like a man, but also it looks
like a bear.
Again, I'm not a huge cryptid know, but Farah
talks a lot about the dog man, and that's whatit's kind of reminding me of, especially
because she kind of lives out in that area,and more so when she was still at the cabin
(01:01:13):
that she was living at when they first movedto Tennessee.
And they say that she was saying that shethought there was a dog man in those woods.
And it's like.
Right.
Kind of in the same area.
So it makes me wonder if maybe there is some
sort of.
I don't want to say, like, cryptid, but
unidentified animal that could have possiblysnatched him, which is really sad to think
(01:01:39):
about, but to me, that doesn't sound like anarmed perpetrator, as you said.
I don't know.
Speaker A (01:01:47):
So, in other words, usually the only time they get called is, like, if
there's, like, a manhunt, right?Okay, we got to somebody.
Or maybe there's, like, I don't know, somecongressmen go down in a plane crash, and
they're important documents, like in everymovie that kind of deals with that.
(01:02:08):
Oh, I got to get to these documents before theRussians do.
So I don't know that one.
None of it makes sense.
Yeah, go ahead.
Speaker B (01:02:22):
I was going to say, just with how quickly they got onto it.
Like you said, it started minutes after hedisappeared.
Where did he go?How does that happen?
Speaker A (01:02:33):
I don't know.
No idea.
No idea.
It's just so bizarre.
I mean, this case just.
I was reading it, rereading it, and I was
like.
I was trying to find it on George Knapps coast
to coast.
Again, another bookmark I got to listen to.
But this guy, again, he has wrote numerousthings on this.
(01:02:55):
I can't remember if he wrote a book, but hewas just like, it doesn't make any sense.
Why am I here?Why are we here?
And why we arm?And they don't arm themselves?
Because there might be, like, a trigger happyprivate, and somebody comes running across,
and they open fire and, oops, I shot the kid.
Speaker B (01:03:17):
Right.
It's easy to, in the heat of the moment,
misinterpret the situation.
So it makes sense, and I can appreciate why
they wouldn't.
But then, to his point, why are they armed?
Why were they called to do that?
Speaker A (01:03:31):
Yeah, someone had to tell them.
Right?
Someone had to tell them.
Okay, this is high alert.
You got to get armed.
We're getting the FBI in this.
And you're like.
Speaker B (01:03:44):
What was it that he said about, like, they think it's something paranormal.
Speaker A (01:03:48):
Yeah. So he's saying.
And you can read a lot more about this.
He decided something paranormal because peopleweren't talking about.
People were like, okay, this is our man.
Here's a picture of Joe Schmo.
Right?And this is the guy, we believe in the area
that's been abducting children.
We got to stop.
(01:04:08):
It was like, okay, what are we looking for?You'll know when you'll find it.
Just get the kid.
They're like, what?
Speaker B (01:04:16):
That doesn't help at all.
Speaker A (01:04:19):
Right, who are we looking for?
Speaker B (01:04:21):
I don't know.
A guy.
Speaker A (01:04:23):
Yeah, find the kid and like.
Speaker B (01:04:30):
Yeah, but you have to have something to go off.
Speaker A (01:04:32):
I know, that's weird.
It was something we got to look into later, I
guess.
So. Here's someone.
Just really quickly I wanted to cover is thedisappearance of Sam Dabal.
He's an experienced solo hiker and intelligentcollege graduate.
Remains a mystery after extensive searchefforts by park rangers and volunteers,
(01:04:54):
including helicopters and searches, failed tofind any evidence of his existence on the
mountain.
Now, I didn't get into this story.
You can read a lot more about it.
So this Sam guy, this is why I don't do a lot
of dull stuff, because no one's really sure.
If he just was like, I'm sick of the world and
(01:05:17):
I'm just going to end it or I'm in trouble andI'm going to go here.
But he did tell people I'm going hiking today.
Okay, great.
Okay.
Park rangers.
He had his whatever.
When you go to a park, you got to buy your
little sticker.
He had everything.
He's done this many times with no incident.
(01:05:41):
Nobody's found nothing.
Zero.
Speaker B (01:05:44):
How does that to me.
What park was he in, did you say?
Speaker A (01:05:51):
I believe he was in Yellowstone.
Speaker B (01:05:54):
Okay. Because that park is huge, number one.
And number two, I mean, it's easy, I feellike, to just get lost.
Even if you are an experienced hiker, whenyou're out there doing it alone, anything can
happen.
Obviously, freak accidents happen.
That's why I find the ones that you coveredearlier with the children where their parents
(01:06:16):
were literally, like with them and they justbasically evaporated into thin air.
To me, they're both, like I said, both tragicin their own right.
But there's something a bit more eerie anduncanny about a kid going missing in full
sight of their parents in the middle of anational park.
Right then.
I mean, obviously I feel bad about this Sam
(01:06:38):
person, too, but there's something to be saidabout the fact that John Doe just disappeared
for 5 hours after following someone who lookedlike his grandma.
Speaker A (01:06:49):
How? Yeah, exactly.
And then my last one before we wrap up is parkranger Jeremy Foyer had a terrifying encounter
with a creature that resembled a werewolf withdistinct features, such as a german shepherd
like head in a human like hands with longclaws.
The reason I brought this one up is becausethis is a park ranger.
(01:07:12):
So what's his benefit?To make something up.
Why would you make that up?Also, if you want to look into it, supposedly
this creature has been running arounddifferent national parks, like, he's been like
in Yellowstone and other ones.
And the people have seen similar creatures
like this.
A lot of people said, well, it's a dire wolf.
(01:07:34):
And then he's like, no, this thing stood up.
Speaker B (01:07:37):
Yeah, those aren't going to out at.
Speaker A (01:07:39):
Me, but I just thought it was really interesting to park rangers.
Like, this is what I saw.
Speaker B (01:07:47):
Well, they also, park rangers are going to know kind of the various different
animals that are in their specific park.
You know what I mean?
A part of your job is to protect the publicfrom encounters with wildlife that could
potentially be hazardous to them.
So the fact that he was like, I don't know
what this is, but I know what it's not becauseI'm good at my job.
(01:08:11):
That's kind of chilling to also.
I don't know what else it could be.
I get saying that it's a dire wolf, but wolvesdon't stand like that.
That's interesting.
Speaker A (01:08:28):
Yeah, that's really interesting.
So this has been really interesting, Courtney.
I think we learned some crazy stuff innational parks.
Be careful, right?
Speaker B (01:08:38):
I will.
And if you come out here to camp, number one,
let me know.
But number two, be careful yourself and let me
know if you see any ghosts or werewolves out.
Speaker A (01:08:51):
So definitely, like I said, share it with.
I'm dairylandfrites@gmail.com.
So if you have any spooky stories you want to
share from your camping or you want to sharewith Courtney, definitely.
So before we, like I said, wrap up here, whatdo you got coming up, Courtney?
Anything specials.
(01:09:11):
Anything really cool.
Speaker B (01:09:13):
I don't think we have very many specials coming out.
I will say I am going to Spain in a couple ofweeks, and we fly out from Boston, and I'm
doing a kind of tour of a couple differentplaces in Salem.
So I will be posting pictures and maybe acouple of videos on Instagram.
(01:09:36):
You can follow me at hauntscast.
But other than that, go check out the show.
Go check out both the shows.
We've got some cool episodes coming out about.
Just some really wild stuff.
But, yeah, that's basically all I have going
on right now.
Speaker A (01:09:54):
Nice. Well, have a great, you know, definitely anytime you'll be on the show,
courtney, you're always invited back on.
I love having you back on.
Speaker B (01:10:05):
You're.
We always have a great time.
I feel like this was definitely a rollercoaster ride of a few different know.
Speaker A (01:10:14):
I know.
And be careful.
Like I said, you don't have someone lookinglike your grandma asking you **** on some
paper.
Speaker B (01:10:23):
No, I will not be doing that.
Now.
I know what to look for, though, out there inYellowstone, if my grandma's like, come into
the woods with me, I'm going to be like, no,I'm good.
Speaker A (01:10:34):
All right, well, like, we always end every show.
Say hi to your, you know, I know you have somespirits.
There's some shadow people.
Hi to them.
But anyway, hey, what's up?
Speaker B (01:10:48):
Just the girl hanging out in your house.
Speaker A (01:10:52):
All right.
Thanks, Courtney.
Speaker B (01:10:54):
Yeah, thanks so much for having me.
Take care.
Speaker A (01:10:57):
You, too.
Hello, my spooky friends.
I'm John, your host.
And welcome to another episode of DairylandFrights, the paranormal podcast that covers
everything spooky, creepy, and mysterious inthe Midwest.
And look who I have with me today.
My first guest I ever had on Dairyland brides,
Courtney from Haunts podcast.
Speaker B (00:37):
Thank you so much for having me.
I'm so happy to be back.
Speaker A (00:41):
I missed you because we had a great episode on the Anna Lyons house.
It's crazy.
I look back now and say, that was a year ago.
Speaker B (00:55):
Was it really? Yeah, that was a year ago.
Speaker A (00:58):
That was a year ago.
Speaker B (00:59):
Wow. Oh, my God. It's been such a long time.
I feel like we just recorded, right?And I mean, time flies.
Speaker A (01:07):
The funny thing is, Courtney and I, at that time, we're still.
Courtney's killing it right now.
Before I get started, please go listen to her
Haunts podcast.
It's amazing.
She does a great job.
Please give her five stars.
Like, and subscribe, because me too.
Okay.
Speaker B (01:25):
Yeah.
Speaker A (01:26):
Because we're independent.
We're independent podcasts, so she's a one man
army, just like me.
I also have a Patreon.
I don't know if you have a Patreon.
Speaker B (01:36):
I'm working to set one up, but I don't.
But either way, honestly, the most that Icould honestly ask for is just to listen and
review it or share it with people.
And thank you so much for shouting it out.
I really appreciate it.
Speaker A (01:49):
Oh, no problem.
Because again, we have our little coven here.
I always tell my guests, and I want to promoteus because we don't have the big studios and
the engineers and the lates sitting for us andthe assistants combing her hair.
Speaker B (02:04):
Yeah, I do have a late with me this morning, so if you hear ICE jingling some ASMR
for you.
Speaker A (02:11):
And not only that, she is co host on the studio sinister podcast with Farah.
So go, please listen to that.
Farah does a great job.
Speaker B (02:21):
She's amazing.
Speaker A (02:23):
She's amazing.
She has all these great stories and all this
great interaction things and stuff.
I like to keep it a little simple.
Maybe down the line I can get you guys level,but it's still amazing because everyone just
does something different, right?
Speaker B (02:38):
Yeah.
Speaker A (02:39):
You get a little writing.
Speaker B (02:41):
She makes it more of.
We say that it's an experience, it's not a
podcast.
And I think that's mainly just because of how
much dedication we both, but mainly Farah putsinto it.
She's the one who's filming it, creating allof the sort of interactive posts on social
media.
So if you see us out there, make sure to go
and give her some love, because she does somuch for that show.
(03:04):
And it truly shows with the level of, I guess,theatrics that come with it.
And I love it so much.
So I really appreciate that you're bringing it
up, but she really also just deserves a hugepat on the.
Speaker A (03:17):
Absolutely. Absolutely.
So our first show.
I don't know if you remember this, Courtney,but I reached out to my audience because you
were having trouble getting into your house.
You said you might have spirit that was
locking you up.
Give me an update on.
Speaker B (03:35):
So it's been really kind of crazy in here just over the last, I guess, year
since we spoke.
Like I said, we were kind of talking about it
beforehand, but we've been seeing shadowfigures around the property and just around
the house every once in a while.
Never, like, in direct line of sight.
Right.
(03:55):
But always kind of, like, out of the corner of
our eyes or we'll see something move.
We had a lot of poltergeist activity, I guess,
is the best way to describe it.
So, for example, I can't remember exactly when
this happened, but a while back, my husbandwas in the kitchen, and we had this bottle
(04:15):
opener, like, beer bottle opener that normallyhangs up on the wall, but we didn't have a
nail in place that we liked it at, so we endedup taking it down, and it was sitting kind of
behind our toaster just to stay up, and itflipped over the toaster and flung at him as
he was just, like, standing in the kitchen.
It's not like he was walking around or
(04:36):
anything like that.
He went in there, and I think he was about to
make a cup of coffee and got kind of, like,distracted by his phone or whatever, and just
something, like, flung it at him.
So that's happened a lot.
We've also had kind of, like, sinks and stuffturn on and off just randomly.
It's been pretty strange in this house, just,like, since I think we last talked.
(04:58):
I did an episode like our Halloween special onHaunts, talking about one of the spirits.
I think there's multiple here.
Sorry, I look, like, very washed out.
Let me.
There we go.
That's a little better.
We've had a lot of spirits, or I think that we
have a lot of spirits here, but one inparticular that I think is more just attached
(05:21):
to me is the bell witch.
I go into it in full detail, both on studio
sinister and on haunts.
So if you guys are interested, go check that
out.
But for simplicity's sake, I was recording the
episode on Haunts, and while I was recording,there was snow out on the ground.
It had recently snowed like eight to twelveinches somewhere in there.
(05:42):
And I caught on audio something walking in thesnow outside my window.
Because I'm recording right next to a window.
Right.
And so you can hear me probably.
I may have cut it out, but I ripped my
headphones off, got up and looked around,thinking maybe it's the neighbor's dog or
something like that.
There was nothing out there, and there were no
footprints in the sand.
I don't know what was or not sand, but snow.
(06:04):
I don't know what was making that noise, butit literally sounded like footsteps, heavy
footsteps walking in the snow right outsidethe window.
Speaker A (06:12):
Wow.
Speaker B (06:13):
So that's kind of the extent of it.
And then I will say recently my husband has
been getting not like, super sick, but he'sjust been very under the weather basically all
winter long.
And that might just be because it's cold here,
but we've had a very, by Montana standard,warm winter.
So that's been interesting and coinciding withthat same thing with Farah's husband.
(06:38):
Like, literally to the day, they were bothunder the weather and just feeling really off
and kind of freaked out by it because it justcame on out of nowhere.
Speaker A (06:47):
Sure.
Speaker B (06:48):
So, yeah, it's been strange, to say the least.
Speaker A (06:52):
Yeah, I guess so.
Yeah.
I was listening to you and Farah on studiosinister for a little while.
You guys were talking about that, and I waslike, that's interesting because I had a guest
on who told a story about his sister who wasmarried to this guy.
And I hope this doesn't happen to you or Farahwhen he was in the house.
(07:15):
He was a jerk.
Would just be just really yelling at her,
would get a little violent with her.
And finally she said, enough is enough getting
divorced.
Speaker B (07:27):
Right.
Speaker A (07:28):
But here's the thing.
When they were outside the house, he was fine.
The guy I was talking to was the brother inlaw.
And he's like, yeah, the guy was fine.
He was a super nice guy.
He was great.
But when he'd go in that house, immediately he
would change to this really big fat jerk,basically.
Speaker B (07:51):
Yeah. Hopefully that's like the negativity kind of aspect of it.
Nothing like that has happened here to eitherof us, thank God.
And I don't think, knock on wood, that itwill.
But, yeah, they say obviously that happens.
Like, if you're in have a negative attachment,
(08:11):
that it's going to affect you in a negativeway.
So that's sad.
But also, at the same time, it's not that
surprising that someone would be going throughthat.
Did they ever exercise?I guess you can't really exercise the home,
but get the home blessed.
Speaker A (08:29):
So according to him, they saged it.
Blessed it.
She obviously sewed off home and everything.
And he says, to this day, he's friends with
the guy and his sister's friends with him, andthey have a great relationship.
It's almost perfect.
(08:51):
The guy who got divorced, the husband and
everything, said, he will never go in thathouse again.
Never.
Speaker B (08:59):
Wow.
Speaker A (09:00):
When they were moving out, he would say, no, because she'd be like, hey, you got
to go get your shop.
And he would be like, no, put it on.
Speaker B (09:08):
I'm never going in there.
Speaker A (09:09):
He goes, put it on the driveway.
I'll get it later.
And she's like, somebody could steal it.
And she's like, he's like, I don't care.
Let him steal it.
I don't care.
Speaker B (09:17):
Yeah.
Speaker A (09:18):
And isn't that weird? I've heard that a couple of times where people
have.
Just being in a house just changes their
demeanor and their character.
I don't know.
Speaker B (09:29):
That is nuts.
Speaker A (09:30):
That is nuts.
Speaker B (09:31):
Especially him not wanting to go in there, too.
He must have known that it was somethingbeyond him.
Wow.
Speaker A (09:43):
No idea.
But it's so weird that the change, right.
And stuff like that.
It's just totally 180 from.
I've heard, too, where people, a lot ofpeople, too, have had paranormal investigators
would.
Had spirits attached to them.
And they'll come home and immediatelysomething's going on.
(10:07):
And then they'll sage the house, and they'lldo what they need to do or tell them, which
I've been told by every paranormalinvestigator.
If you have a spirit attached to you, youbasically don't yell at them and say, get out
of my house.
You say, look, this is my house.
I don't want you here.
You need to leave.
Okay.
You know what I mean?
Kind of like talking to maybe someone who'sbeen at a party too long.
Speaker B (10:32):
Yeah. Like they overstayed their.
Speaker A (10:34):
Like, you and your husband are like, okay, John, you can leave now.
And I'm like, no way, Courtney.
I'm going to get drunk.
Yeah.
Rob staying here.
Speaker B (10:43):
Time to go.
Speaker A (10:44):
I'm sleeping in the bathroom.
And you're like, okay, John, you can go now.
Speaker B (10:48):
Yeah, you don't want to sleep in the bathroom, though.
That's where all of the kind of crazy stuffhappens in our house.
Not all of it, but with it being the area,it's right next to the kitchen with all of the
pipes and the water that's running throughoutthe bathroom, the kitchen sink, and stuff like
that.
It seems that that corner of the house is
where all of the activity happens.
(11:08):
Like, another time, I didn't tell you about
this.
I don't think that I was in the bathroom
getting ready, and I saw something, like,smacking against the shower curtain, which mad
horror movie vibes.
So I'm looking at it in the mirror, and it's
like, okay, what's in there?Thinking, maybe it's my cat, because he likes
to spend time in the bathroom.
(11:29):
It's the warmest room of the house, so that
makes sense.
So I'm like, is he playing in the tubs?
Like, pull back the curtain.
No one's there.
The cat's not there.
So I immediately vacated the area because I
didn't want to be terrorized by whateverspirit was hiding in my shower.
But.
Speaker A (11:47):
I don't know what it is.
I've been getting a lot of bathroom stuff,
too, when you're most vulnerable.
I've had people where they've said they've
seen footprints, they've seen imprints on themirror.
They've seen voices.
Like, they'll be in the shower, and they'll
hear these really deep voices around them, andthey think it's the wife or maybe a friend
(12:14):
came over and they're talking, and thenthey'll be like, hey, guys, I'm going to be
out in a second.
Just wait.
And then we can talk about whatever you'retalking about.
And then they get out of the shower, andthere's nobody there.
Speaker B (12:24):
That's nuts.
The other thing, too, that we kind of
experienced, Farah.
And I think that there might be, suffice it to
say, some sort of connection between us, ormaybe a spirit going back and forth between
us, if that's possible, because we're havingsimilar activity.
She's also seeing shadow figures and stuff,and obviously, I'll let her speak to that for
(12:47):
herself.
But one time we were recording the episode for
the Omen house, and we're talking, and shedoesn't say anything to me while recording.
The second we're done recording, she hits endon the episode.
She's like, did you hear that voice?I didn't want to say anything because I didn't
want to freak you out because you were on aroll.
But did you hear it?And I'm like, no, what are you talking about?
(13:10):
We use descript to edit our episodes, and itimmediately populates a transcript with voices
and stuff.
So, like, voice one, voice two, voice three.
There was another voice at that part that shewas talking about, that descript caught and
made a transcript for.
And we were talking about my bathroom at that
(13:30):
point in the episode because I have one ofthose mirrors that opens up medicine cabinet,
and you always see in the horror movies whenpeople are closing it and then they open it
and then close it again.
There's a spirit behind them.
And I'm like, that would be my luck.
She was like, that's when I heard it.
I don't think it caught on audio, but sheheard it in the call, which means that it
would have had to come from my side if it's atrue EVP.
(13:52):
Right, right.
And then she caught it again in the actual
transcript.
I'm not sure if it caught on the audio itself,
to be honest.
I went back to listen and I was having trouble
hearing it, so I'm not 100% sure.
But that was wild because we were talking
about the ghost in our house, how weird mybathroom is.
(14:14):
And something said like, hi, or something likethat.
And it caught in the.
It's been.
It's been super.
Speaker A (14:24):
Fun of wild and super fun.
Speaker B (14:30):
Courtney, I just can't.
Speaker A (14:33):
Courtney, here's something for you.
A little teaser about the topic we're going to
talk about.
The zone of death is a 50 square mile area in
Idaho section of Yellowstone National park, inwhich, as a result of a reported loophole in
(14:55):
the constitution of the United States, aperson, by the way, Courtney and John, in our
podcast, and everybody did not recommend thisand do not support this at all, may
theoretically avoid conviction for any majorcrime up to and including murder.
(15:17):
So please don't murder anybody.
Speaker B (15:19):
Yeah.
Speaker A (15:20):
Also, what if I told you that there are some, which we will cover, some mysterious
part banishings that haven't been solved tothis day?
Right.
Speaker B (15:33):
I've said this before, I think both on haunts as well as on studio sinister, that
Yellowstone is probably one of the mosthaunted places out here.
For those of you guys who don't know where I'mlocated, I'm like 30 to 45 minutes from the
park.
I go there all the time, and I've never had an
experience there, but I've heard so many ghoststories that it has to just be one of the
(15:59):
creepiest places, especially just when theweather starts getting kind of colder and
darker and it's like, eerie out there.
I don't know.
Yellowstone is.
Speaker A (16:08):
Yeah. Yeah. And that's crazy that you live so close and everything like that so
you could go and check it out if you want to.
So before we get started, I'm going to do a
little bit of sources here really quickly.
So Wikipedia was a good one.
That's always a helpful one.
Then the 85 app that talked about true stories
(16:29):
of serious disappearances and crimes andsupernatural forces, it was a really good one.
Grunge.com, which was really interesting, gaveme a bunch of cool stuff.
And then there was one called vocal media thattalked about disappearances and a little bit
of the zone of death.
So we're going to divide this episode, folks,
into my spooky friends.
(16:50):
We're going to talk about zone of death, and
then Courtney and I would talk about somemysterious disappearances and kind of give our
opinion upon what do we think happened tothose people and give our opinion on the zone
of death.
So, like I said, the zone of death is like a
constitutional loophole, which is, I don'tknow about you, Courtney, but kind of cracks
(17:11):
me up.
That's a loophole in the constitution.
Speaker B (17:14):
Yeah. To me, it's kind of just a very ambiguous area of this region of the
United States.
It shouldn't be able to exist, and yet it
does.
And obviously, we can't pull parts of a
national park out of the park.
(17:34):
But at the same time, there needs to be some
sort of precedent set other than like, this isa free for all Hunger games sort of arena.
Kind of.
Speaker A (17:46):
Mean the big alarms going off and people running.
Speaker B (17:49):
Seriously?
Speaker A (17:50):
Yeah. So you people are probably, my spooky friends are probably saying, hey,
John, I thought you do stories from theMidwest.
Well, that's not true.
We tried to do some stories, but the reason I
brought this story up, because it was done bya Michigan.
It was found out, discovered, excuse me, by aMichigan State university law professor.
So there we go.
(18:11):
That's Midwest.
Speaker B (18:12):
I didn't know that.
Speaker A (18:13):
His name was Brian C. Cole and he was planning to write an essay about the
technicalities of the 6th Amendment and whichentitles criminal defendants to have a fair
and quick trial.
So that's your 6th amendment.
You can ask for a fair and quick trial.
You still, like three years down the road.
So Colts wondered about a hypothetical placewhere there were not enough eligible citizens
(18:41):
to form a jury and theorized there could be notrial and therefore no punishment for any
major crimes in that area.
He later realized that there was such a place,
the Idaho section of Yellowstone Nationalpark.
(19:04):
This guy just did it by accident.
He was doing an essay and he was like, I
wonder if there's an area where there's justnot enough people to be your peers.
And you could ask for a jury trial.
And they say, no, we don't have enough people.
And you go, well, fine, I'm free.
Speaker B (19:24):
And again, you.
And I don't condone this, but in a purely
technical kind of standpoint.
Speaker A (19:35):
How.
Speaker B (19:35):
Do I put this? I guess it's unconstitutional.
Like, you have to have a jury of your peers,and you have a right to a speedy trial.
Speaker A (19:43):
Correct.
Speaker B (19:44):
And the thing about it is, too, I don't know if you've looked at it on a map,
but I have.
It's like, out in the middle of nowhere.
There are no trails to it.
You know what mean?
Like, it's in the remote part of Yellowstone,so there are a lot of different roads and
different little legit boardwalks going aroundthat you can walk on.
And it's a pretty easy park to traverse.
(20:06):
But then there are other parts of the park
that are very dense and just nearly impossibleto get to.
And one of them is that section.
And it's just like a sliver of Idaho that it
almost feels like you should just, like, Iguess, draw the state line so that it's in
(20:27):
either Montana or Wyoming, so that thisdoesn't.
I mean, can you even do that realistically?
Speaker A (20:36):
Yeah, and we'll get to that.
So he's horrified by his realization, shifted
his focus to writing an essay about the areato persuade the government to fix the
loophole.
By the way, you could read this essay.
It is entitled the Perfect Crime, and it waspublished.
(20:57):
I've seen this, 2005.
Oh, have you?
Speaker B (20:59):
I've seen it.
Yeah. So I did an episode a while back on the
yellowstone old Faithful Inn.
I forget the name of it exactly.
Speaker A (21:06):
Oh, sure.
Speaker B (21:07):
But I kind of touched on the zone of death in it, like in that episode.
And I want to say I use that as a source.
I think I've read this essay.
Speaker A (21:18):
Nice.
Speaker B (21:20):
It's interesting, for sure.
Speaker A (21:21):
Yeah. So I got to read it.
I'm going to read it.
I have it marked bookmark, and I'm going toread it.
I didn't have time before the show, but I'mdefinitely going to read it.
So Colt feared that criminals might read thisessay and commit a crime in the zone before
the loophole was fixed.
Speaker B (21:39):
Right.
Speaker A (21:40):
Could you imagine that? You're a murderer.
All right, let's say you're a serial killer.
Right?
And you're going, wait a minute.
Interesting.
Speaker B (21:55):
I do think that would be my main concern with writing it.
I think morally, there is a reason to write itthat way.
It can be fixed, especially if you come acrossit or at least bring it to the attention of
someone who can fix the problem.
But also, I can see why there were
reservations there, because people are evil.
Unfortunately, not in a general sense, but
(22:17):
there are very evil people, and you don't wantthat information getting in the wrong hands.
Speaker A (22:22):
No, absolutely.
And the funny thing, too, is I used to watch a
show, and I don't know why I watched a showand why everyone watched this show, because
it's very popular.
It was called Dexter, and Dexter was a show
about a serial killer who killed people whoslipped through the cracks of the legal
system.
(22:44):
And anyway, I remember watching that show, and
he would always, at the end of the show, killsomebody and then chop them up and then put
them in bags, and he would throw them in this.
He'd throw them in the ocean off the coast of
Florida.
And I was like, okay.
(23:05):
And I wonder if there's a guy out therethinking, or woman.
By the way, women can be serial killers too.
Let's not be judgmental people who would know.
Speaker B (23:18):
Yeah, you don't want to give people.
Speaker A (23:19):
But you never know.
Speaker B (23:21):
Yeah, you don't want to give people any bad ideas.
But to be honest, I've never watched Dexter.
Everyone tells me I should because it's, like,
right up my alley, but I've never watched it.
Kind of on that same vein, though, if you've
never seen the show, Barry, I'm binging itright now.
Speaker A (23:38):
Oh, I love.
Speaker B (23:39):
That show is nuts.
Speaker A (23:40):
Yeah, I love.
Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker B (23:43):
It's so good.
Speaker A (23:44):
If you're watching Dexter, this is going to happen.
Courtney, just a quick side topic.
Speaker B (23:49):
Okay.
Speaker A (23:49):
I will guarantee you do this, because everyone did this.
I told him I recommended the show too.
You'll watch the pilot, and you'll go, like, I
don't get it.
And you'll stop, and then one day you'll be
sitting there and go, I don't know.
Let me try it again.
And you're hooked.
Speaker B (24:03):
Let me give it a shot.
Speaker A (24:04):
I don't know what it is.
I don't know what it is.
But everybody who's done that, everybody Idon't.
Speaker B (24:14):
Go. Might try to go find it just to see, because I don't have a show to, like,
we're binging, Barry, right now.
Like my husband and I are.
Speaker A (24:23):
Yes.
Speaker B (24:23):
But I want just a show to watch in my spare time or while I research, because I
can't do one thing at a time.
So I might give it a shot, see how it goes.
I'll let you know.
Speaker A (24:37):
Let me know.
Let me know.
So, after Colt discovered the loophole, heworked to have Congress close it.
He suggested the lawmakers in Wyoming that thezone of death be included as a part of the
federal district court for the District ofIdaho instead of the Wyoming district, which
would, I guess, fix the issue.
(24:59):
However.
Oh, Congress.
They ignored Colt suggestion.
And in 2007, author which.
I have to read this book that's on my
bookmark, too.
C. J. Box wrote a novel called Free Fire that
featured the zone, which Box hoped wouldincrease governmental awareness.
(25:25):
The novel did succeed in alerting Wyomingsenator Mike Enzi to the issue.
But Enzi.
Here we go again.
Courtney was unable to convince Congress todiscuss.
Speaker B (25:42):
Mean like, this seems like a pressing issue, right?
Speaker A (25:46):
And they're just going, okay, whatever, it's fine.
Here's the good news.
Courtney and my spooky friends.
No known felonies have been committed in thezone of death since good discovery.
However, in December of 2005, a poacher namedMichael Beldrain, or Belderain, illegally shot
(26:12):
an elf in Montana section of Yellowstone,where you live.
While that section of the park does haveenough residents to form a jury, it might be
difficult to put together a standing and fairone due to the travel and unwillingness of
members of small populations there to serve.
(26:33):
So a federal judge ruled that Belderain could
be tried in the US district court for thedistrict of Wyoming, despite the 6th amendment
problem.
So Beldera cited Colt's paper, the perfect
crime, to explain why he believed.
(26:57):
Why he believed it was illegal to have his
trial with a jury from another state where thecrime was committed.
The court dismissed.
This is really weird, the argument, though,
and Bell rain took a plea deal conditionedsuch that he would not appeal the zone of
death to the 10th Circuit, rendering the issuemoot, at least for the time being.
Speaker B (27:27):
There is something to be said about that area.
So here's the thing.
If he shot it in the area that I think he did,
which is during bugling season, very high elkpopulation density, maybe.
I don't think that you can shoot elk duringthat time period, but I'm assuming they're
like in that area, right?Or I guess if he was poaching, then it doesn't
(27:48):
really matter what time of year he was doingthat, because he was doing it illegally.
But that area of Montana is basicallypopulated by people who work for the park.
So it's like park rangers and admin and stuff.
It's a very small kind of, I hate to say town,
(28:09):
because it's really not even a town.
It literally has a post office, some
restaurants for just people coming into thepark.
And then I think it's the mammoth hot springsand that's it.
So I can imagine that it would literally beeverybody who lives in that area would have to
go and be on that jury.
(28:31):
So I can see the argument.
But also at the same time, could they not pullpeople from other parts of the county?
You know what I mean?Because it goes all the way up to where I'm at
and even past where we are.
So there's enough, I would say, in the county
to do that.
But I also don't really understand the laws
surrounding.
So.
Speaker A (28:51):
Yeah, right.
So what's interesting to me is I read some
recent information and the Idaho senator isstill trying to push this through.
There's people from Wyoming and Montana stillpushing this through.
But really the reason Congress has, eh,whatever, is just because they're like,
(29:14):
really?Is anybody really going to do this?
So it's one of those things, once it's doneand someone is murdered there, then they'll do
something.
Speaker B (29:24):
Yeah, but then that to me is just basically saying, like, come and try us.
You know what I mean?Like, see what you can get away with, which is
especially someone who lives over here, kindof terrifying because you don't want, again,
anyone to get the wrong ideas and see how farthey can push the envelope.
(29:50):
So I don't think necessarily just waiting forit to happen is the best case scenario.
You should be trying to prevent it.
Speaker A (29:57):
Right.
Speaker B (29:58):
It's interesting.
Speaker A (29:59):
Yeah. So Courtney and I are not really true crime.
We might do some kind of true crime.
It's more like paranormal true crime, I would
say.
But I'm going to run this by some of my true
crime guests I've had on and ask them whatthey think because I think it's really being
that, well, it's kind of weird.
Nothing's really happened there except for
(30:20):
approaching.
But being that this is such a loophole and
everyone's dragging their feet on it, just tosay, basically, I dare you.
Speaker B (30:30):
Yeah, literally, it's like, see what?
**** around and find out.
Literally, come find out what will happen.
Because it doesn't seem like there's muchgoing on in the way of preventing any sort of
crime from occurring.
And like you said, well, I do love true crime,
but I'm not the kind of person who covers iton my show, or you for that matter.
(30:54):
But it is something to think about becausewhen you have an area like that that obviously
has such a negative connotation to it, thenit's only going to attract in negative energy
in an area that is supposedly already veryenergy dense when it comes to paranormal
activity.
Speaker A (31:12):
Absolutely.
Speaker B (31:13):
So I don't know, I just feel like it's a nightmare waiting to happen.
Speaker A (31:18):
Right.
I know.
And it's just one of those things where it'skind of like in a horror movie, right.
It's pretty much any horror movie wherethere's a monster involved or Jason or
Michael.
Someone comes running into the house.
(31:38):
Right.
Wherever goes.
Oh, my God.
Oh, my God.
Jason killed somebody and then everyone just.
There's a monster right there and everyone's.
Yeah, until the monster comes in and rips yourflesh off and eats you.
Speaker B (31:56):
It's very cabin in the woods for me.
I don't know if you've ever seen that movie,but I absolutely love that movie.
It's like the idea of it is supposed to belike a good horror movie in its own right, but
also at the same time kind of a satire for allof the horror movie tropes that come up time
and time again throughout that genre.
And I think it does a really great job of
(32:17):
doing both.
But to your point, they're all literally
messing around with stuff that's veryobviously going to.
You go down in this basement and you findliterally a bunch of basically paranormal
stuff, like artifacts, and you're playing withit.
What did you expect?And then they're just hanging out waiting for
(32:37):
it to happen.
Speaker A (32:39):
Right.
It was the same thing with this.
Anything else to add?Should we get to mysterious disappearance in
National Park?
Speaker B (32:50):
I think that that's like, the main thing.
I know that there's never been a felony there.
I knew that going in.
Other than that one poaching incident, I'dnever heard of that.
But I always come back to the idea of, like,this must be part of the reason why
Yellowstone is so haunted.
And it's not just that area, it's a huge park,
(33:12):
and there's so many different spirits said tobe haunting there.
And I just think that if there were ever goingto be a zone of death per se, it would be in
Yellowstone National park.
But I'm excited about mysterious
disappearances.
That is like my guilty pleasure when it comes
(33:32):
to true crime.
So take it away.
Speaker A (33:36):
Yeah. By the way, zone of death, great name for a band.
I don't know why, but my band.
Speaker B (33:42):
Zone of death, actually trademarked that.
Don't let anyone take it.
Speaker A (33:49):
So today I'm just going to cover some bigger disappearances.
By the way, if you want to go and look at someof the stats, how many people disappear in our
national parks, it's mind blowing.
It's unbelievable.
Now, some of them are because, and this iswhat I always tell people, you're smart and
(34:15):
you and your husband go hiking and stuff, butwhen you leave somewhere, you always tell
someone, hey, I'm hiking.
If I'm not back by 02:00 you need to go look
for me.
And a lot of disappearances is like me getting
up in the morning and let's say me, yourhusband, and you were all camping together.
(34:37):
And I say, hey, Courtney, I'm going to go andI'll see you later.
Speaker B (34:42):
You don't give any information.
Speaker A (34:44):
I don't give anything information.
And then you're like, you and your husband,
like, John should have been back by now.
It's like 06:00.
It's too late.
Maybe I tripped, maybe I slipped.
Something happened, right?
Speaker B (34:55):
It's also worth mentioning that Yellowstone is the place to be if you want to
see.
So, like, for example, we went there.
My brother was in town last June, and hereally wanted to go into the park and just see
some stuff because every other time he's goneto the really basic grand prismatic and the
(35:18):
old faithful and all that kind of stuff, andhe wanted to see more of just like the random
kind of like offshoot roads of Yellowstone.
And we saw like three or four grizzly bears
just like hanging out.
And fortunately, it was like right after they
woke up from hibernation.
So they basically binge eat and then go back
(35:39):
to sleep just wherever they're at.
So they were all kind of like catatonic, but
that is the place to go.
There were so many people there just with
those huge telephoto lenses, taking picturesof them.
So I bring that up because I'm assuming youcould really come across easily like a bear, a
(36:03):
wolf, a moose, something that can do a lot ofdamage.
And I think probably a lot of thedisappearances, too, unfortunately, or not
even disappearances, but just deaths andinjuries come from wildlife.
So, yeah, that's like a huge thing toconsider.
And also, if you guys are going toYellowstone, do not approach the bison.
(36:25):
I cannot tell you how many times a year we getlocal news saying someone has approached them
and unfortunately gotten hurt or worse.
So just don't approach the wildlife, please.
Speaker A (36:37):
There you go, my spooky friends.
Courtney, safety tip when you're visiting
Montana.
Okay, so the first one we're going to talk
about is, well, John Doe.
And this is perhaps the most baffling of all
strange disappearances in national park.
And this is really strange because it's a
(37:01):
disappearance and reappearance and that'susually does not happen.
And it was a young boy known only as John Doe.
So John Doe was mentioned in, and I don't know
if you guys ever listened to George Knapp.
It's coast to coast.
He's this famous guy.
He's been on forever.
If you get a chance to listen to him, he haspeople on there that you're like, whoa.
(37:24):
Okay.
I'm not sure if I have a guest podcast on my
show, but it's interesting.
Speaker B (37:28):
That podcast is wild.
It's a really good show.
Speaker A (37:32):
Yeah. And he's been on there forever and ever.
He's the staple.
He's like the grandfather of all paranormal
strange stuff.
He's been around and.
Get a listen to it.
Listen to the podcast.
Speaker B (37:42):
Yeah.
Speaker A (37:44):
But according to the interview, three year old John Doe was last seen near a
fly fishing river and then he promptlyvanished for 5 hours.
A search party found him days unharmed in themiddle of a grove of trees.
Now this is John Doe's story.
Now remember, this is a little kid, but some
(38:05):
of the stuff is like Courtney.
I'm like, wow, this is a pretty good
imagination for a little kid.
Speaker B (38:10):
But anyway, the one that, like, I don't know if you've seen, I know he went
missing in Montana.
I don't know if he's the same one, but he was
a three year old who went missing for a couplehours, maybe a couple days.
And they show a picture of him in all of thearticles before and then afterwards.
He looks really traumatized.
(38:32):
Sadly, he has red hair.
Is this the same kid?
Speaker A (38:36):
I don't think so.
Speaker B (38:37):
Okay, that story is wild.
He like, went missing.
I think he went missing randomly somewherehere in Montana.
And I think he was gone for like three days.
That's who I thought you were talking about.
But he came back.
I don't know what his story is or anything
like that, other than the fact that he wasfound and it happened right after we moved
(39:00):
here.
So I've always wondered and hope that he's
okay because I imagine that he saw some ****out there, if you know what I mean.
Speaker A (39:08):
Yeah. So the little boy said he followed a woman who looked like his
grandmother to a mountain.
He then found himself in a room that had a
bunch of motionless robots and weapons lyingall over a dusty floor.
The boy then claimed that he noticed a strangeglow coming from the strange old woman's head.
(39:34):
And then most puzzlingly of all, she asked himto defecate on a piece of paper.
Yeah.
I love this story.
And then the boy claimed she got agitated andaggressive when he refused to do so.
(39:54):
Okay, it gets weird.
Speaker B (39:57):
It gets weirder than this?
Speaker A (39:58):
Yes. Okay. The woman then said that the boy was.
Well, the woman.
This is kind of confused.
She is from outer space, actually.
The woman said.
I'm sorry, let me go back.
The woman claims that the boys from outer
(40:19):
space, that she was planted in his mother'swomb.
She then told him to go and wait in the treesuntil he was found.
Speaker B (40:30):
What was he, like, a star child? Have you ever heard of those?
Or star seeds, I think is what they're called?
Speaker A (40:37):
Yeah, something like that.
Speaker B (40:39):
Whoa.
Speaker A (40:40):
Okay, so no one has any idea where the boy was when he disappeared?
Like, there's no tracks, there's no nothing.
Okay, so it'd be so easy to say that the
disappearance of John Doe was just a child'sor overactive imagination.
However, there is something very bizarre aboutthis disappearance case that gives credence to
(41:03):
John Doe's insane story.
His grandmother, who had been gone camping
with him, claimed that she was dragged out ofher tent late at night.
She woke up to a strange pain in the base ofher neck and found two small holes near the
back of her head.
Speaker B (41:23):
No way.
Speaker A (41:25):
Yeah. So.
Speaker B (41:31):
I was hoping that you were.
I was hoping you were going to tell me a UFO
story or an alien abduction story.
And you came, like right out the gate with a
very intense one.
Speaker A (41:42):
Yes.
Speaker B (41:43):
So, like, was she abducted the grandma?
Speaker A (41:46):
Sure.
Speaker B (41:48):
That's what we're thinking.
Speaker A (41:50):
So what I'm thinking is the aliens possessed her.
Follow me on this one.
It's going to get weird.
Aliens possessed her.
She then basically is like, invasion of the
body statue.
She then mimic or whatever horror movie.
She then came back and said, hey, john Doe,come with me.
(42:13):
And they probably went to like a cabinsomewhere or some, you know what, somewhere
far away.
Who knows?
You probably know places like this has dustyweapons on the floor.
Maybe it's an abandoned cabinet, I don't know.
And then the alien was like, I need a sample,
so I need you.
Speaker B (42:33):
Yeah, well, that's what I was going to say.
Speaker A (42:34):
Dump on this paper.
And then when the little boy goes, what,
grandma?And she's like, do it.
He's like, no.
Speaker B (42:45):
And she's like, no, I don't want the body.
Speaker A (42:48):
Alien possessing.
He's like, and then, yeah, I was.
Speaker B (42:54):
Going to say, as gross as it is, unless he was just making it up.
I really find it hard to believe that a kidthat young would be able to make up a story
as, like, they can make stuff up, obviously,but this seems out there, even for a child.
Speaker A (43:18):
Why would the grandma be like, someone dragged me out of the tent.
Speaker B (43:24):
Right.
Well, it's like it happened not the same time,
but all, like.
It seems like a very linear series of events
that seems connected to me.
I don't know what to make of that.
Creeps me out.
Speaker A (43:42):
Yeah, I know.
So, like, what happened to them?
I think we both agree.
Not really sure.
Yeah.
Okay, let's go to the next one.
So while many strange disappearances in thenational parks can be explained by kidnappers,
by the way, that's becoming a big thing.
Sex trafficking and child trafficking.
Speaker B (44:04):
Yeah. Sadly, it's really prevalent out here, so that's sad.
I'm not surprised by that.
Speaker A (44:14):
Yeah. And it seems like what most people agreed that this is like out of this
world.
Not really sure what happened, but it's good
that the kid is safe.
I think he wrote a book about it when he got
older.
I'm not really sure.
I'll double check that because everybodywrites a book.
Speaker B (44:34):
When did this happen?
Speaker A (44:40):
I think it was like 19.
Wasn't recent.
It was like 70s.
It wasn't recent.
Speaker B (44:50):
Whoa. Okay. Yeah, that's even more interesting.
Okay.
Yeah.
If you come across the book, let me know.
I want to read that.
Speaker A (44:58):
Yeah, I'll share that with you.
So this one is Alfred Biohearts.
Take a shot at that.
And this one happened in 1938.
And yes, it's another kid, but this one isreally strange.
So in 1938, four year old Alfred wasvacationed with his family in the Colorado
(45:19):
Rocky Mountain National park.
His parents were watching him carefully.
Now, remember this, as they went out for aquick hike near the river, then, without
warning or trace, he vanished.
It is one of the most strange appearances in
the national park.
So basically what has happened?
(45:40):
Parents are.
Well, I used to do this too, with my kids.
Be walking in the park and I look back, therehe is on the monkey bars.
So this is crazy.
He was only feet.
They don't say how many feet away from hisfamily when he was gone.
So if they're saying feet, let's say, I don'tknow, 100ft, 50ft.
It's still not long, right?
Speaker B (46:01):
No. Yeah, it's in eyesight.
The thing is too.
I think that's kind of crazy.
My husband and I talk about this all the time.
People will step off the trail to go to thebathroom, which is pretty normal.
People do that in national parks versus tryingto hunt down one of those basically glorified
(46:22):
porta potties.
And then it's not like they get turned around.
It's just they completely.
By the time that they make it back to where
their family is, the family's gone, and thenit turns into a whole missing person's case.
And it seems like they almost, like timelinejump or reality jump when they're in these
places.
(46:43):
I don't know if that's what you're getting to
here, but it seems almost like he was justpicked up and moved somewhere else.
Speaker A (46:50):
Yeah. So this weird, interesting.
You say that a six mile search of the area
where he disappeared showed nothing.
However, dogs were able to trace his scent
500ft uphill from where he vanished.
The only problem, Courtney, was there were no
(47:10):
footprints and no Alfred to be seen.
Stranger.
The dogs that traced the scent seemed to beconfused by what they were smelling, and then
they quickly lost the scent.
Then again, once dogs traced the scent uphill,
the two began to **** their heads and lookednervous.
(47:34):
Eventually, both bloodhounds ended up lyingdown on the ground, unable to go any further
on the trail.
So these dogs were, like, smelling.
Oh, here it is.
Wait a minute.
There's nothing here.
Okay.
And then the dogs were like, wait a minute,there's something over there.
And then.
Forget it.
I'm not going there.
(47:56):
And they lay down, refused to move.
They would not go.
Speaker B (47:59):
Right.
Or the other thing, too, is they could be
marking that this is where he is, because Ithink dogs like search dogs.
They'll sit or have some sort of command whenthey.
And don't quote me on this because I'm not100% sure, but I'm thinking that that's the
case.
They mark where it is that the person was last
(48:20):
seen, or maybe the scent ran out.
Speaker A (48:22):
Sure.
Speaker B (48:22):
Which is.
That is nuts.
It really feels like he was just picked up andmoved to, or maybe not even picked up, but
just dissolved into a different timeline or adifferent reality.
Speaker A (48:37):
Right.
Speaker B (48:37):
I hate that.
Speaker A (48:40):
Alarmingly, some hikers who were waiting, walking 6 miles away from where
Alfred disappeared, claimed they saw a youngboy in a particularly dangerous and difficult
to reach rock outcropping called the devil'snest.
And the two hikers said that they had onlyseen the boy minutes after he allegedly
(49:06):
disappeared.
Stranger, they claimed the boy seemed to be
dazed and upset, but then appeared to bejerked back by an unknown voice.
Speaker B (49:18):
You jerked back as in, like.
Speaker A (49:24):
The blue boys looking out, and then the lady.
Someone grabbed you.
Speaker B (49:30):
Oh, my God. Okay.
Speaker A (49:32):
You don't see who it was that grabbed it?
Speaker B (49:35):
Well, it's an unseen force, something not someone pulled him.
Speaker A (49:40):
So one of the things they said here, it would make total sense is a four year
old boy would not reasonably or logically beable to travel 6 miles uphill over 3000ft on
his own.
Even survival specialists who searched for him
needed specialized equipment to get up there.
Speaker B (50:03):
Also, Rocky Mountain National park is, excuse the pun, but those hikes are no
walk in the park.
They can be pretty intense.
I can't imagine that a four year old, I don'teven think I could do that.
And I'm a seasoned hiker.
How long did you say?
Like five minutes?
Speaker A (50:26):
Well, they said they traveled.
He went up 3000ft and traveled 6 miles on his
own.
Speaker B (50:35):
Okay. I mean, obviously I can do that.
But you said it was like within around thesame time.
Right.
Speaker A (50:41):
They found the scent 500ft.
Speaker B (50:44):
Okay.
Speaker A (50:45):
The dogs picked up his scent, but then they couldn't pick it up.
And then these two hikers are like, what theheck is a little boy doing on top of that
double?
Speaker B (50:58):
Right. And I'm sure obviously it's possible for people who are adults who hike a
lot.
Sorry, I don't know why I was thinking that it
was like simultaneous, but for a four yearold, no, that is not possible.
Speaker A (51:15):
Right.
And the other thing that's not possible, let's
say he was abducted.
Well, that dude has to be booking it, right?
Speaker B (51:22):
And carrying the kid.
Speaker A (51:26):
Who'S screaming, by the way.
I don't know if you've ever like, my kids,
once they would see a stranger, they wouldscream their head off, which was a good thing,
but it didn't have to be a stranger.
It would just be like my daughter would
sometimes see like we'd be at a restaurant andthere'd be a guy that just come up there and
(51:47):
my daughter didn't like people with beards.
I don't know why anybody with a beard freaked
her out.
When she was like four or five years old,
she'd be like, my nephew.
Speaker B (51:55):
Is the same way.
Yeah.
Speaker A (51:58):
And I'd be like, okay.
And the guy would be like, whoa, whoa, whoa,
whoa.
Right?
The kid's probably going to scream.
The parents are going to be like, what's going
on?And then he's got a book.
It like run 6 miles.
Speaker B (52:15):
Kind of a precarious area.
Speaker A (52:16):
Yeah.
Speaker B (52:21):
I guess it's possible that he could have been abducted, but to me that doesn't
seem as, I guess, there.
To me, there isn't really very many logical
explanations for this.
It just like how did he get up there?
Speaker A (52:36):
Yeah, right.
Speaker B (52:37):
I don't.
Speaker A (52:42):
Of things have been talked about that a cryptid did some type of cryptid in
that area, which I don't know, Coloradocryptids very well that grabbed it, grabbed
the boy.
Speaker B (52:55):
I can't.
I mean, that's not Pacific Northwest enough to
be.
Yeah, I don't really know very much about
Colorado cryptozoology either.
I guess if you guys know me at all, I'm not a
huge believer when it comes to cryptozoology.
(53:15):
I think they're great stories, but I always
find them a little bit harder to believe.
But I do want to be proven wrong.
So if anyone has heard this story and hasevidence to believe that it is a cryptid, let
me know, because I would love to be mystifiedin that way.
But I'm thinking I keep just all of these justmake me feel like alien abduction.
Speaker A (53:39):
Right? So the next one, Dennis Martin, and yes, it's
another kid because these are the most famousones.
There were some couples, but I'm like, I knowthis sounds kind of weird to say, but if
you're an adult and you can't figure out howto get out of something, I'm kind of like,
(54:00):
well, to me it's scary, yes, but it's still.
Speaker B (54:04):
The adult ones are a little bit easier to explain away with, just like they
got.
I mean, obviously kids get lost and stuff, but
usually there's like several people, like inthis recent story that are hyper vigilant of
where their kid is.
So when someone is physically watching them
and within a split second they're no longerthere, that is way more difficult to explain
(54:29):
than an adult who was just by themselveshiking in the woods.
Speaker A (54:33):
Correct.
Speaker B (54:33):
You know what I mean? Not that isn't tragic in its own right.
Speaker A (54:38):
And I'll get to some stories, just really quick things that people have seen that
have been crazy.
So perhaps one of the most famous strange
disappearance in national parks happened in1969.
By the way, thank God for cell phones, forInternet cell phones, satellite phones.
You basically had a walkie talkie with thedistance of 50ft.
Speaker B (55:00):
Right.
And like a map that is poorly drawn.
Speaker A (55:06):
So this happened to six year old Dennis Martin was vacationing with his family
in the middle of the great Smoky mountains.
By the way, this place hella haunted.
Speaker B (55:17):
The great Smoky mountains are like the to.
When I was living back in Georgia, we would goto Smoky Mountain National park probably once
a year for like five years.
That is the most visited national park in
America and it's one of the most haunted aswell.
They say that all of them are and sure, Iguess.
(55:39):
But I can believe that that one is super******* haunted.
Speaker A (55:44):
Yeah, absolutely.
So while his parents were talking to.
I guess it says another adult.
I don't know why they say that.
Dennis's brother and some kids decided itwould be funny to play a prank on his.
And this is where it starts.
They all decide to split up.
Bad move.
And hide and jump out to scare their parents
(56:06):
in a harmless prank.
Okay, fine.
So three of the boys went one way and Denniswent the other.
Why didn't someone go with Dennis?I don't know.
Speaker B (56:15):
Right.
Speaker A (56:15):
Four kids hid, but only three jumped out.
Denis just vanished.
And that was the last anyone ever saw of him?
Speaker B (56:25):
No.
Speaker A (56:26):
Yeah. So six from sense field, a young boy screamed and claimed that he saw
what first looked like a bear, but then lookedlike a large man with something strange slung
over his shoulder.
A frantic search party started almost
(56:47):
immediately, but no trace of Denis was found.
The search party lasted until night, when
torrential rain washed away any scent thatcould potentially been used by the bloodhound
to find the missing child.
Within the subsequent days, the FBI, the green
berets, the police, and just about every formof official aid were dispatched to find Dennis
(57:12):
Farton.
But no footprints or articles of clothing
belonging to him ever showed up.
What's bizarre about this case is the
government's reaction to it.
The leader of the FBI group who organized the
search committed suicide for unknown reasons.
Okay.
Another special forces member by the name ofHarold Cleveland later stated in 2014, in
(57:39):
which he said something paranormal must havebeen afoot.
In a statement he sent to the news of theweird, he wrote, quote, our special forces are
never called to assist in civilian operations.
That falls local National Guard and is
approved by the state governor.
(58:01):
The fact that they were armed as well is
another huge no no. During my command andevery other mission, I was aware we were not
allowed by federal protocol to do either.
Something is very wrong with this missing kid
scenario.
(58:21):
I've done some research on the case, both
while active duty and after my retirement.
And the inside facts of this case depict a
frightening investigation.
The bottom line is that searching started
within a few minutes of the boy'sdisappearance and lasted three months with
(58:43):
every resource imaginable being deployed.
Don't even start with the terrain was
difficult.
Holes and caves, cliffs, creeks, et cetera.
Our special troops can find almost anything,anytime and in any terrain.
We have the highest technology availableworldwide and easily the best training and
(59:07):
real world wartime and mission specificexperience that the normal civilian populace
can scarcely imagine.
After studying this case, the fact that no
trace of the boy was ever found is mindboggling.
The green berets that were tasked this searchwere there for a specific reason.
(59:28):
They were armed for a specific reason.
I can't and won't say why because my old
documents won't allow.
But I will remind you of these facts.
Nationwide, there have only been fouroccasions where the special forces were
brought in on civilian missing case.
(59:49):
Two of them involved a possible armed
perpetrator.
The other two were this case, similar to about
three years ago and regionally nearby.
This is out of thousands of missing cases
since the early 60s, when our special troopswere born.
(01:00:09):
In other words, there's something potentiallyterrifying about living in national parks
related to all the strange incidents.
We civilians don't know what it is, but
judging by the note that he wrote, okay, weprobably don't know what's out there.
(01:00:30):
He's a special forces guy, and he's, like,saying, we're not supposed to be armed when
we're doing a search.
We've never been called into this.
It goes to the National Guard, and thegovernor has to approve this.
Speaker B (01:00:41):
Right.
Speaker A (01:00:42):
And the FBI's there, too.
For a six year old kid that.
Speaker B (01:00:48):
It'S, to me, the thing where it's like, it looks like a man, but also it looks
like a bear.
Again, I'm not a huge cryptid know, but Farah
talks a lot about the dog man, and that's whatit's kind of reminding me of, especially
because she kind of lives out in that area,and more so when she was still at the cabin
(01:01:13):
that she was living at when they first movedto Tennessee.
And they say that she was saying that shethought there was a dog man in those woods.
And it's like.
Right.
Kind of in the same area.
So it makes me wonder if maybe there is some
sort of.
I don't want to say, like, cryptid, but
unidentified animal that could have possiblysnatched him, which is really sad to think
(01:01:39):
about, but to me, that doesn't sound like anarmed perpetrator, as you said.
I don't know.
Speaker A (01:01:47):
So, in other words, usually the only time they get called is, like, if
there's, like, a manhunt, right?Okay, we got to somebody.
Or maybe there's, like, I don't know, somecongressmen go down in a plane crash, and
they're important documents, like in everymovie that kind of deals with that.
(01:02:08):
Oh, I got to get to these documents before theRussians do.
So I don't know that one.
None of it makes sense.
Yeah, go ahead.
Speaker B (01:02:22):
I was going to say, just with how quickly they got onto it.
Like you said, it started minutes after hedisappeared.
Where did he go?How does that happen?
Speaker A (01:02:33):
I don't know.
No idea.
No idea.
It's just so bizarre.
I mean, this case just.
I was reading it, rereading it, and I was
like.
I was trying to find it on George Knapps coast
to coast.
Again, another bookmark I got to listen to.
But this guy, again, he has wrote numerousthings on this.
(01:02:55):
I can't remember if he wrote a book, but hewas just like, it doesn't make any sense.
Why am I here?Why are we here?
And why we arm?And they don't arm themselves?
Because there might be, like, a trigger happyprivate, and somebody comes running across,
and they open fire and, oops, I shot the kid.
Speaker B (01:03:17):
Right.
It's easy to, in the heat of the moment,
misinterpret the situation.
So it makes sense, and I can appreciate why
they wouldn't.
But then, to his point, why are they armed?
Why were they called to do that?
Speaker A (01:03:31):
Yeah, someone had to tell them.
Right?
Someone had to tell them.
Okay, this is high alert.
You got to get armed.
We're getting the FBI in this.
And you're like.
Speaker B (01:03:44):
What was it that he said about, like, they think it's something paranormal.
Speaker A (01:03:48):
Yeah. So he's saying.
And you can read a lot more about this.
He decided something paranormal because peopleweren't talking about.
People were like, okay, this is our man.
Here's a picture of Joe Schmo.
Right?And this is the guy, we believe in the area
that's been abducting children.
We got to stop.
(01:04:08):
It was like, okay, what are we looking for?You'll know when you'll find it.
Just get the kid.
They're like, what?
Speaker B (01:04:16):
That doesn't help at all.
Speaker A (01:04:19):
Right, who are we looking for?
Speaker B (01:04:21):
I don't know.
A guy.
Speaker A (01:04:23):
Yeah, find the kid and like.
Speaker B (01:04:30):
Yeah, but you have to have something to go off.
Speaker A (01:04:32):
I know, that's weird.
It was something we got to look into later, I
guess.
So. Here's someone.
Just really quickly I wanted to cover is thedisappearance of Sam Dabal.
He's an experienced solo hiker and intelligentcollege graduate.
Remains a mystery after extensive searchefforts by park rangers and volunteers,
(01:04:54):
including helicopters and searches, failed tofind any evidence of his existence on the
mountain.
Now, I didn't get into this story.
You can read a lot more about it.
So this Sam guy, this is why I don't do a lot
of dull stuff, because no one's really sure.
If he just was like, I'm sick of the world and
(01:05:17):
I'm just going to end it or I'm in trouble andI'm going to go here.
But he did tell people I'm going hiking today.
Okay, great.
Okay.
Park rangers.
He had his whatever.
When you go to a park, you got to buy your
little sticker.
He had everything.
He's done this many times with no incident.
(01:05:41):
Nobody's found nothing.
Zero.
Speaker B (01:05:44):
How does that to me.
What park was he in, did you say?
Speaker A (01:05:51):
I believe he was in Yellowstone.
Speaker B (01:05:54):
Okay. Because that park is huge, number one.
And number two, I mean, it's easy, I feellike, to just get lost.
Even if you are an experienced hiker, whenyou're out there doing it alone, anything can
happen.
Obviously, freak accidents happen.
That's why I find the ones that you coveredearlier with the children where their parents
(01:06:16):
were literally, like with them and they justbasically evaporated into thin air.
To me, they're both, like I said, both tragicin their own right.
But there's something a bit more eerie anduncanny about a kid going missing in full
sight of their parents in the middle of anational park.
Right then.
I mean, obviously I feel bad about this Sam
(01:06:38):
person, too, but there's something to be saidabout the fact that John Doe just disappeared
for 5 hours after following someone who lookedlike his grandma.
Speaker A (01:06:49):
How? Yeah, exactly.
And then my last one before we wrap up is parkranger Jeremy Foyer had a terrifying encounter
with a creature that resembled a werewolf withdistinct features, such as a german shepherd
like head in a human like hands with longclaws.
The reason I brought this one up is becausethis is a park ranger.
(01:07:12):
So what's his benefit?To make something up.
Why would you make that up?Also, if you want to look into it, supposedly
this creature has been running arounddifferent national parks, like, he's been like
in Yellowstone and other ones.
And the people have seen similar creatures
like this.
A lot of people said, well, it's a dire wolf.
(01:07:34):
And then he's like, no, this thing stood up.
Speaker B (01:07:37):
Yeah, those aren't going to out at.
Speaker A (01:07:39):
Me, but I just thought it was really interesting to park rangers.
Like, this is what I saw.
Speaker B (01:07:47):
Well, they also, park rangers are going to know kind of the various different
animals that are in their specific park.
You know what I mean?
A part of your job is to protect the publicfrom encounters with wildlife that could
potentially be hazardous to them.
So the fact that he was like, I don't know
what this is, but I know what it's not becauseI'm good at my job.
(01:08:11):
That's kind of chilling to also.
I don't know what else it could be.
I get saying that it's a dire wolf, but wolvesdon't stand like that.
That's interesting.
Speaker A (01:08:28):
Yeah, that's really interesting.
So this has been really interesting, Courtney.
I think we learned some crazy stuff innational parks.
Be careful, right?
Speaker B (01:08:38):
I will.
And if you come out here to camp, number one,
let me know.
But number two, be careful yourself and let me
know if you see any ghosts or werewolves out.
Speaker A (01:08:51):
So definitely, like I said, share it with.
I'm dairylandfrites@gmail.com.
So if you have any spooky stories you want to
share from your camping or you want to sharewith Courtney, definitely.
So before we, like I said, wrap up here, whatdo you got coming up, Courtney?
Anything specials.
(01:09:11):
Anything really cool.
Speaker B (01:09:13):
I don't think we have very many specials coming out.
I will say I am going to Spain in a couple ofweeks, and we fly out from Boston, and I'm
doing a kind of tour of a couple differentplaces in Salem.
So I will be posting pictures and maybe acouple of videos on Instagram.
(01:09:36):
You can follow me at hauntscast.
But other than that, go check out the show.
Go check out both the shows.
We've got some cool episodes coming out about.
Just some really wild stuff.
But, yeah, that's basically all I have going
on right now.
Speaker A (01:09:54):
Nice. Well, have a great, you know, definitely anytime you'll be on the show,
courtney, you're always invited back on.
I love having you back on.
Speaker B (01:10:05):
You're.
We always have a great time.
I feel like this was definitely a rollercoaster ride of a few different know.
Speaker A (01:10:14):
I know.
And be careful.
Like I said, you don't have someone lookinglike your grandma asking you **** on some
paper.
Speaker B (01:10:23):
No, I will not be doing that.
Now.
I know what to look for, though, out there inYellowstone, if my grandma's like, come into
the woods with me, I'm going to be like, no,I'm good.
Speaker A (01:10:34):
All right, well, like, we always end every show.
Say hi to your, you know, I know you have somespirits.
There's some shadow people.
Hi to them.
But anyway, hey, what's up?
Speaker B (01:10:48):
Just the girl hanging out in your house.
Speaker A (01:10:52):
All right.
Thanks, Courtney.
Speaker B (01:10:54):
Yeah, thanks so much for having me.
Take care.
Speaker A (01:10:57):
You, too.
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