Stimagz-with-Kody-Lukens

Molly and Angela are joined by Stimagz founder, Kody Lukens. They start the episode off right nerding out over Mandalorian - don't worry, no spoilers - and the Millenium Falcon before jumping into the creation of Stimagz, Kody's ADHD experience, how cool squirrels are, motivation, entrepreneurship, and the need to just go ahead and embarrass yourself. Grab your favorite stim tool or fidget and get ready to rock (if that's your thing) as you enjoy this fun-filled, guest episode of Drudgery and Dreams.

 

Interested in getting a set of Stimagz for yourself? You can use our Affiliate Link to grab your Stimagz Use Coupon Code "DNDDStim" at checkout and recieve 15% off your entire purchase. Sweet!

Episode Transcript

Molly Hicks (00:00):
Welcome to drudgery dreams and in between the
podcast for neurodivergentweirdos and queers who forget
about struggling to adult we'restruggling to human.

Angela Locashio (00:07):
At least that's what everyone's telling us.
You're right, pre shuffle. Hey,I'm Angela. Bringing sense to
the conversation. From here onmy soapbox, I shed light on the
things society doesn't want youto talk about, you know, the
real shit that matters.intersectional thinking
sexuality queernessneurodiversity consent, and the

(00:29):
fact that self care is bullshit.For me, it's all about
community, and how we can carefor each other.

Molly Hicks (00:37):
And I'm Molly giving a big Fork you to
Cookie-Cutter Solutions I helpburnt out busiest Fuck
neurodivergent and queerentrepreneurs make shit happen
by providing out of the boxsolutions and sustainable
systems to grow your biz. Forme, it's all about doing what
makes sense for your brain.

Angela Locashio (00:54):
Enough with the chitchat, let's get to it.

Molly Hicks (00:57):
Keep listening. And Together, we'll explore the
drudgery dreams and all thatshit in between, get ready to
call bullshit on what everyone'ssaying you should be doing

Angela Locashio (01:07):
as we navigate the spectrum between what really
matters to you, and the shitkeeping you from it.

Molly Hicks (01:15):
Hey, everybody, we're so excited to be here
today. As you notice, there's athird individual here today.

Kody Lukens (01:29):
Hello

Molly Hicks (01:29):
Actually. So it's really my story. So here's the
thing. A couple weeks ago,Angela lost her stim mags. And
if you've been around thepodcast for a while, you know
that the devastation was real,like tears. Tears episode
stopped in the middle of alibrary address the loss of the

(01:50):
stim mags who somebody may ormay not be taken out of the room
and lost.

Angela Locashio (01:56):
I did not lose them.

Molly Hicks (01:58):
It was not you talking about you. And like
there was another week aboutthat. And then there was this
stupid human who decided tosteal things from the mail when
you thought your Stimagz werethere. And Angela, I had said to
Angela at one point I was likeyou should connect with like

(02:19):
Stimagz and tell them whathappened. And like it's a really
good connection for you and allthe things that you're doing.
And next thing I know, thefounder, creators did Max is
sitting right here. Hello.

Angela Locashio (02:37):
This is Kody. Yes, this is Kody. Okay, so I'm
just gonna do a quickintroduction. And then we want
to hear we want to hear yourvoice. So Cody was diagnosed
with ADHD as an adult, and veryquickly became frustrated with
the lack of resources made forus ADHD adults. So he set out to

(02:58):
do something about it. Yay,entrepreneurial spirit. He
started creating educational andrelatable ADHD content on social
media, to help people learnabout their brains, and to feel
a sense of community hashtagcommunity care, and also created
a magnetic stim fidget toycalled stomachs. And this is

(03:23):
designed to be durable, and itis I attest to that. And to meet
ADHD and other nd stim needs.Hi, Kody.

Kody Lukens (03:32):
Hello. Pleasure to be here.

Molly Hicks (03:34):
We're so excited to have you know, for our
listeners, I don't know if youcan pick up on the excitement
that Angela is vibing right nowbecause Angela normally does not
sing in our episodes. I'mhonored. So okay, now that we've
totally built this up, and likewe've got this upgrade. Cody, we

(03:56):
are so excited to kind of hearhow how you were like, Well,
shit, I've got ADHD. Okay, um,because I feel like that's a big
part of this story.

Kody Lukens (04:09):
Yeah, I'm very excited to be here. A little
preface I stayed up too latelast night, the new episode of
the Mandalorian came out forthat it was the first episode
like two years, so I stayed upuntil midnight to watch it. And
then I couldn't fall asleepuntil like two because I was
just thinking about it waspretty good. I won't spoil
anything, but I enjoyed it.

Molly Hicks (04:26):
You can't see it. But behind me is the X Wing and
the Millennium Falcon. So that'swonderful. I love that line.
When you said that I was likeHow have I not watched it?

Kody Lukens (04:36):
I didn't actually know it was coming. I tried to
avoid all the news foreverything just because I don't
want any spoilers of anythingwhatsoever. But my roommate
said, hey, it's coming out atmidnight. Do you want to watch
and I said, Yeah, absolutely.

Angela Locashio (04:48):
It was not even a real question. Yeah.

Kody Lukens (04:52):
Anyways, ADHD tangent. I sort of always knew
that I was ADHD. It was writtenon a lot of my report cards in
elementary preschool - he shouldprobably get evaluated. But back
then the understanding was verydifferent. It was much more of a
sort of hyperactive little boydisorders, what it was thought
of. And a lot of the sort ofemotional aspects and the other

(05:14):
areas that it can affect yourlife weren't really known, or if
they weren't known, they weren'ttalked about publicly very
often. And so I was neverevaluated or diagnosed or
anything until my early 20s,when I was actually going to get
evaluated for other mentalissues, namely, anxiety and
depression. And then I was alsodiagnosed with OCD in that same
city. So fun little quadruplewhammy there. And then once I

(05:39):
was diagnosed, this is a prettycommon thing I know, I went down
a total rabbit hole of wantingto learn everything that I could
about ADHD. And I didn'tactually download Tiktok until
about a year later. And that'swhen I really started learning a
lot more about the moreanecdotal ADHD experiences. And
by that, I mean, medical sciencetakes a long time to catch up

(06:03):
to, I guess experientialscience, if you can call it that
in terms of you have millions ofpeople who are all saying that
they are diagnosed with thisdisorder, inexperienced this
thing, more so than people thatare not diagnosed with this
disorder, obviously, moreresearch needs to be done to
establish those types of linksconclusively, but anecdotally,

(06:23):
that's enough to go off of andso when I started, when I
downloaded tick tock and startedseeing more of that, I realized,
wow, this really affects me alot more than I thought it did.
And as a neurodevelopmentaldisorder, that makes sense, it
changes the way that your brainstructure develops as you age.
And so of course, it's you know,the lens you view the world will
be different than if you did nothave that neurodevelopmental

(06:47):
disorder. And I lost my train ofthought, sorry, I looked down at
my keyboard, and I cleaned itlast week, and there's already
dust all over it. What Oh, no,no. Immediate well, I need to
just sit in a completely blankroom when I'm doing podcasts or
recording things because I getdestroyed so easily.

Angela Locashio (07:06):
I know but then you'd be really bored. That's
probably true.

Molly Hicks (07:10):
With our podcast, though, this is this is what
we're all about is like showingthe realities of like, We're
doing great. We're doing greatand squirrel. Squirrel.
Specifically, type of squirrelfrom a variety of countries on
only lives in this one tree. Youknow, like that is

Angela Locashio (07:30):
I feel really cold out.

Molly Hicks (07:33):
I know, many times

Kody Lukens (07:36):
like this world, squirrel and like when I'm
walking outside and talking withsomeone I will very frequently
verbally saved squirrel. Andwe're all just get back to
whatever I was talking about it.Squirrels are dope. Yeah, I
guess

Molly Hicks (07:48):
it's more of like your brain took energy to
acknowledge that a squirrel wasthere. And you want to allow the
other person the opportunity toknow that thing because our
brain maybe important. I need tolet you know to like it's not
uncommon. But okay, so diagnosisstory now.

Kody Lukens (08:12):
Right? Yeah. Funny and then went on tick tock. And
then. Oh, yeah. I don't rememberexactly what came first. It was
a bit of a two things developingsimultaneously in terms of
starting the development ofStimagz, and then also doing my
social media stuff. On I startedon Tik Tok, and then branched
out to Instagram, YouTube, andthen very recently started on

(08:34):
Facebook as well, just posting,you know, same types of content,
but different platforms,different audiences. When I was
a kid, I had this set of littlemagnetic toys. And they were
meant to be used to buildthings, just like Legos or
Bionicles, that type of thing.But I would use them as a stim
toy. And that's where the ideaof Stimagz came from. But they

(08:54):
were discontinued in 2006.Because they weren't built super
well, because they weren't, theyweren't intended to be used as a
stim toys. So if they were meantfor kids, so if kids were rough
with them, the magnets wouldfall out, and the kids would
follow the magnets. And it was areally bad deal. But I had a
bunch of them from when I was akid, and I would use them as a

(09:16):
stim toy until they fell apart,and then I'd have to throw them
out and pick up a few more frommy stash. I was I ran out at one
point when I was I think 17 AndI spent $300, buying some of the
last sets in existence of thoseoriginal units and I can't I
don't want to say the brand namelegal reasons. But I spent a lot

(09:40):
of money trying to buy the lastfew and then when those started
breaking, I realized I there'sno way I can have a lifetime
supply of these. I think I needto make my own. And very quickly
I realized, Oh, if they're thishelpful for me, it stands to
reason that they would behelpful for other people as
well. So I set out to buildsomething that had that similar
feeling so A lot of formfunction but a lot more durable

(10:02):
and with stronger magnets, sothey'd actually be designed to
be used as a stim toy, not as aconstruction toy with and I
suppose off label purpose ofbeing used to stim. And that's
where the idea of Stimagz camefrom. So I started working on
that and realized, Oh, if I'mdoing this, it makes sense to
integrate it into theneurodivergent community ahead

(10:24):
of time and involve people inthe development, make sure that
it's something that they want,check in with people on, like,
what form factor they like, whatcolors they enjoy, what
materials feel good in theirhands, because I know that we
all have a lot of sensorysensitivities. And that's really
led me to where I am today, mysort of personal mission

(10:45):
statement is to create value forneurodivergent people rather,
that's what and that can bethrough, you know, creating
products, such asStimagz, or afew of the other things that I'm
working on. That can't sharequite yet. But I'm really
excited about or just throughcreating, you know, educational
or relatable videos on socialmedia that can help people
understand themselves a littlebit better or feel a little less

(11:06):
alone. So people have asked mebefore, like, Okay, what's,
what's your primary focus, Idon't think I really have a
primary focus. My focus is justcreating that value for people.

Angela Locashio (11:17):
You don't ask somebody with ADHD what their
primary focus is.

Molly Hicks (11:23):
So it's funny, you mentioned that. So I had a
discovery call with a new clientright before I got on. And they
were like, I know, I'm supposedto do one thing, but I don't
think I can live a life of one.I'm like, we do neuro divergent
things here. There's no one.Yeah, there's never one for us.

Kody Lukens (11:46):
No, maybe one for a couple of weeks. And then you'll
go on to the next. Yeah,

Angela Locashio (11:50):
I was gonna say I can definitely get very
focused, and I enjoy the focuson one thing, but it doesn't
last forever.

Kody Lukens (12:01):
I had a near encyclopedic knowledge of snakes
from probably second throughfourth grade. And then I just
moved on to something else. Andnow I still know a lot about
snakes, not nearly encyclopedicanymore. But that was just my
core obsession for a long whilethere. Yeah,

Angela Locashio (12:19):
I so hear you. So hear you on that. So how much
did you make through yourKickstarter? Because that's
where I found you. I came on theKickstarter. And it's like, Yes,
I have to have these. You had areally successful Kickstarter?

Kody Lukens (12:32):
Yeah, went really well, personally. Just to be
clear, I did not really makeanything from that I think,
enough to cover rent for twomonths. Everything else went
directly right back into thebusiness. And I know that that's
pretty unusual for Kickstarters,at least, given the the public
reputation that they have, havegenerally Kickstarters take a

(12:53):
very long time to fulfill. I'veordered some things several
years ago that still haven'tarrived. And every few months,
they'll send me like, Oh,they're shipping soon, we've had
manufacturing delays. And Itotally understand that, I know
that manufacturing andlogistics, especially right now
can really be held. The worldstill hasn't caught up from the
two weeks of shutdown and 2020.Because everything was on such a

(13:15):
lean manufacturing schedule,it's it's a nightmare. But even
with that, I I'm gonna I'm gonnatoot my own horn for a minute
here, I definitely went aboveand beyond to make sure that
everything was as set up andplanned as possible. Before
launching the Kickstarter, Icould have launched it in May.

(13:36):
But I waited until October tomake sure that okay, I have this
manufacturing schedule down, Iknow exactly how long it will
take me after I placed the orderat a certain threshold to then
receive them and in what colorsI believe will be most popular
so I can have the manufacturerprep those those materials ahead
of time doing everything Ipossibly could to streamline the

(13:56):
process, because that then alsoallowed us to open the Shopify
in January and get thingsselling as quickly as possible
because I suppose the downsideof spending so long in
development, those extraprobably three four months is it
definitely cut into well,obviously revenue cuz we weren't
selling anything, but also justthe sort of existing resources

(14:18):
we had. And by we, I mean, itwas it was it was just me, but
I'm used to saying we because itmakes the company seem bigger.
Have an employee now, which isawesome. She's she's doing
great. I think she's actuallythe one that probably responded
to your email initially, andthen forwarded fantastic human
being. Oh, yes, she iswonderful. Shout out Karis.
Let's see. Yep, so theKickstarter raised almost

(14:40):
$90,000, which was awesome. Andthen sales on the Shopify have
been doing great. So far. Itseems like people are really
excited about it. And we've beenpartnering with a lot of
neurodivergent creators onsocial media. And since I'm
approaching people as a part ofthe community, and it's it's
clear with my track record ofyou know, the videos that I've
made and everything that Ireally care. And I'm someone

(15:01):
that's passionate about helpingpeople, not just some random
businessman trying to make aquick buck off of neurodivergent
people, because I feel like alot of existing, quote unquote,
resources, you know, get fidgettoys or other items made for,
quote unquote, forneurodivergent, people are
really doing the bare minimum.And obviously, there needs to be

(15:24):
lower cost options for peoplethat can't afford, you know, to
pay a heavier, heavier price tagfor a more premium item, those
absolutely have value. But themarket is so saturated with that
right now that it's incrediblydifficult to find items once
again, via fidget toys or otherresources such as weighted fit
weighted blankets, orcompression vests, that aren't

(15:45):
just complete, cheap massproduced garbage. And so that's
a niche that I'm really tryingto fill is I know that the
prices are high. I know it's notfor everybody. But I think that
there are a lot of people thatcan really benefit from
purchasing something that theyknow is going to be high quality
and they know it's going to meettheir needs, even if it carries
out your price tag.

Molly Hicks (16:04):
Yep, that we'd have best thing that that. So my
level is neurodivergent, too.And when we first looked at
waited stuff for them, myhusband wouldn't buy it. Because
in you might, I don't know howold you are. But I'm guessing

(16:27):
here, when we were little kidsthat were neurodivergent, who
couldn't mask for whateverreason, they were the outcasts.
And even the ones that weremasking, let's be real are
outcasts, but like most of thetime. And so Steven refused to

(16:48):
do the way to invest because itmade Blaine stand out if they
were to wear it. And so like notjust as their high quality
product, but why do we have tomake children stand out for
needs,

Kody Lukens (17:02):
they all look like they're coming from the dentist
with a weighted vest, like whatis up with Right?

Molly Hicks (17:07):
Like, we need to protect ourselves from the X ray
machine. Yeah, in some capacity,when there's other ways to do
that. And so that, yes, yeah,I'm here for that. Yeah,

Kody Lukens (17:19):
I'm here to hear some initial approval. I haven't
actually, I probably shouldn'thave actually talked about that,
because that is in development.But anyway, official
announcement of weighted vest

Angela Locashio (17:34):
as a as a sensory of like, integration and
sensory environment person. Thisis so huge, like this, you know,
havingStimagz in and it's in andof itself, is a way to create an
environment that supports yoursensory needs, and heavy work,

(17:54):
and having access to differentthings that work on the
proprioceptive sense, are justit's so necessary and so needed,
and we need to be having theseconversations. My special
interest right here.

Molly Hicks (18:11):
Honestly, yes. Now, right where you want

Angela Locashio (18:16):
us. This is off the subject a little bit. But
since we're talking aboutentrepreneurship, we need a
device that takes the rockingand our chairs and turns it into
energy for our homes.

Kody Lukens (18:29):
Oh my gosh, and never for power.

Angela Locashio (18:31):
Look at all three of us right now. Right?
Like, like, do I need to like dowe need to cut that little thing
out and have conversations aboutit. So nobody hears that great
idea. I want the whole world tohear it and I want somebody to
come up with it ASAP.

Kody Lukens (18:43):
If someone makes it before me, that's okay. As long
as it's out there.

Angela Locashio (18:46):
Oh my gosh, this is totally needs to happen.
Look at all the energy we'recreating.

Molly Hicks (18:54):
Okay, but going on with your entrepreneurial stuff.
So putting my brand strategistwho works with neuro divergence
had on my mind the hat was histalk, but the hat is this was my
wizard hat. That's also one ofmy special interests. Okay. I,

(19:17):
you said that you like I need tomake sure that these things are
in place before I do this forthe Kickstarter. And I need to
have this process in place. AndI need to double check these
things. So it sounds to me likeyour neuro divergence really
helped you have a successfulcampaign because like you knew
the importance or had seen fromsome type of like, I blame it on

(19:39):
my pattern recognition. Butmaybe you blame it on something
else. But essentially, you'relike I've observed all of these,
all of these companies do itwrong. Yeah. So now I'm going to
collect all the data that I'veseen from those 13 things and
apply it to my own personalexperience and do this. So. So
those are some things that wentreally really well. Where did
you see like, some of the stuffgoes pop through because a lot

(20:02):
of times ADHD, we see peoplelike, Go Go, go, go go, and then
they have that crash. And thenthey're like, I'm done. Goodbye.
And then they move on. So what?in that realm of things?

Kody Lukens (20:13):
Can we talk about that? Yeah, I guess two pronged
response to that. First one is Iwould describe myself as a
recovering perfectionist. Andthat a lot of the reason that
the Kickstarter was someticulously planned, is that I
spent so long planningeverything going over every
single word, making sure thepunctuation was perfect. Re

(20:35):
filming a bunch of gifts, orjust videos for the main video,
because I wasn't exactlyperfectly satisfied with how
they came out, there's a halfsecond, too long pause between
this word and this word. Andthat was some that's something
that I don't think I would doagain now. But I put so much
pressure on myself of okay, ifthis doesn't work, what do I do

(20:56):
like that this is, this is mydream, this is what I want to be
doing. And so I really puteverything I had, and then some
into it for several weeksleading up to the Kickstarter,
and to a lesser extent, severalmonths as well. I was working
regularly from 8am until 8pm.Every single day, like not
taking again, maybe I would takeone day off to just recover a

(21:19):
tiny bit before jumping backinto it. So that isn't something
I wouldn't necessarilyrecommend. And something I'm
trying to step away from nowjust being okay with little
imperfections. And because we'reall human, we all make mistakes.
Not everything needs to beperfect. And oh, yeah. And to
answer the second part of yourquestion, and perhaps the more

(21:42):
direct part of your question. Idefinitely experienced that,
right when we hit theKickstarter goal. So the first
day raised, I think, $2,500, ormaybe a bit more, I don't
entirely recall. But it was onthe fourth day, God said, Let
there be light now. A creatornamed Jeremy Andrew Davis,

(22:03):
sorry, I was really dry joke, acreator name, their manager,
Dave has posted a video onStimagz that got I think it's
got to nearly a million viewsjust completely naturally, no
boost in there at all. And thatdrove a very large chunk of the
total traffic, we got to theKickstarter. And it took us
from, I think $3,000 Or no, notthree, sorry, $5,000 to $25,000,

(22:31):
over the course of 12 hours, inour goal was set at 8000 or
9000. I don't remember exactlywhere it was. But it just
exploded us past the goal. Andthen that was about a week into
the Kickstarter. I know forthat. Sorry. It's been a long
time. I don't remember the exacttime. But right after that, that

(22:51):
was on a Friday. And so I said,Okay, I'm gonna take the
weekend, and we'll get back toit on Monday. I didn't really do
much for the next, the remainingtwo and a half weeks of the
Kickstarter. I wasn't burnedout, I was still feeling joy
with what was going on. But Iwas feeling very aimless and
lost because for so long for twoyears, my goal was get the

(23:13):
Kickstarter funded. And thenafter that, figured out what
comes next I was just focused onthat one singular goal. And so
when that goal was achieved, Iwas just completely aimless. And
it wasn't until probably twomonths later, when it was
actually time to startorganizing things to fulfill the
kickstart. Obviously, I wasstill working in that time, I

(23:35):
had to coordinate with themanufacturer, and you know, make
sure the funds were going to theright place, that kind of stuff.
But I wasn't doing full workweeks in that time. Now,
obviously, I did need a bit oftime off. But even if I didn't
need the time off, I don't know,if I would have been much use
otherwise, I very much had toreset my brain and find a new
goal to latch on to, which isanother thing I'm trying to

(23:57):
deviate from. I don't know ifyou've read atomic habits, but
one of the big takeaways fromthe book is it's better to focus
on doing whatever you're doing1% Better every day, rather than
picking one goal and trying tostrive towards that. But that
can be really difficult to doand you're not seeing that
market improvement or you're notseeing that market progress. And

(24:19):
so I'm trying to get better atrecognizing the little victories
and the little successes and thelittle failures and taking those
as acceptable milestones ratherthan okay, I need to hit this
sales metric by this date or Ineed to do this by this time
because that sets me up for alot of certainly a big success

(24:42):
but it doesn't feel that way itwhen the Kickstarter funded at
first I cried a lot. There's avideo of it on my page. But then
after that I felt very hollowfor a while. Just the goal was
achieved and I didn't know whatto do and I'm definitely I'm
spiraling here are circling soI'll wrap it

Molly Hicks (24:59):
up way, fine. Okay. Good, don't worry.

Kody Lukens (25:04):
Thank you. And so I'm trying to get better at just
accepting the little things andjust being content with doing a
little bit better every day.

Molly Hicks (25:14):
Right? Yeah. And I feel like this is a cycle that a
lot of neurodivergent humanskind of fall into, especially if
we're late diagnosed, orignored, diagnosed. In the sense
of like, we were taught that youhave to do it this way, you have
to achieve these goals. And wekind of pushed ourselves to make
these things happen, even thoughinherently I'm not sure how we

(25:38):
did. But we did, you know, kindof thing. Like, if somebody went
to nine year old Molly, and waslike, how did you do that? I
would be like, I don't know, Iwoke up one day, and it was
done, you know, like, it justhappened. And so what you're
describing really is, you know,and sharing is that this is a

(25:59):
common journey for a lot ofneurodivergent folks who were
sold this premise of goals, andhow to do it, and that it's
okay, if that doesn't work foryou, and that, in some cases,
mate, might make you feel worseor destroy you in some way, you
can find a new way to dosomething. And that's positive.

(26:21):
And that's helpful. And thatthat actually makes you feel
good about yourself. And so Ifeel like that. That's what
you're describing. And that was,I

Angela Locashio (26:32):
want to jump into that. I want to jump into
that as far as motivation.Because I know that that's
something that that you enjoytalking about is motivation. So
I want to jump into that in aminute. But before we do, I want
to add that this is also anissue about transitions and how
transitions can be difficult.But it's a it's a lot of people

(26:55):
don't think about it or see itthat way. Because it's like, oh,
that's something that you know,that was a really good positive
thing that happened. Okay. Butit was very unexpected in the
way that it happened. And Ineeded to quickly transition
from one space of the productionprocess and the creation process
very quickly transition intothis other space. And that's

(27:20):
where that aimlessness comesfrom, right. Like, I wasn't
ready, I wasn't ready for thattransition. I don't know where
I'm gonna go. I don't know whatI'm gonna do. I think that's
normal. But it's not talkedabout.

Molly Hicks (27:34):
Right. And it's, it's one of I know, we're
supposed to be talking aboutbusiness in this episode. But I
try so hard not to talk aboutbusiness and other episodes. And
I'm like, Oh, I can talk aboutit this episode. That is super
common for business owners to belike, I just need to go viral.
And I'm like, do you understandthe amount of work effort and
energy it would take to a goviral on a routine basis, and be

(27:58):
to deal with the aftermath? It'sexhaust viral.

Kody Lukens (28:01):
Yeah. And after you go viral, it's everything, once
again, feels hollow afterwards.Like, if I have a video that
gets 3 million views in a week,and I post the next one, it gets
25,000. That's still a lot ofpeople that are watching or even
if I post one, it gets above myaverage, say, gets 250,000
views, that still feels like aletdown compared to the 3

(28:22):
million of the week before,which is crazy. It's you get
addicted to the numbers, you youwant that every time and of
course, it's designed that way.But it's it's definitely a
struggle.

Molly Hicks (28:36):
And it's unfortunate. I know, you want to
talk about motivation, but it'skind of is a motivating factor
is it's it's funny to me,because people are like, well,
300 people viewed it. I'm like,do you really know what that
means? Do you know what a viewis? Like how they calculate that
view? Oh, but I got 2.5 millionreach. That just means people

(28:57):
have access to it. And somehowon their screen, somebody was
looking at something like ussomething measurable. Yeah,
like, that's the other thing.Like, I'm not trying to get
preachy. I'm just like, if we'regoing to use numbers that we're
going to control and like, we'regoing to perceive ourselves
through value of these numbers,at least use a number that
actually is worse, somethinglike don't like likes are worth

(29:21):
something. Somebody saw yourvideo and clicked on a link in
your bio that's worth something.Somebody just watching your
video doesn't mean a damn thing.Much. And so like people
perceive that as something worthsomething. And I'm like, what's
worth something is when youactually connect with a human
and they do something. And ifyou don't have that movement,

(29:45):
and that that then it doesn'tcount. It's just a vanity thing.
I will get

Angela Locashio (29:50):
her hitting on. Can you tell that we're hitting
on this this interest that Mollyhas on social media, and I know
Cody that you have that sameinterest you have worked in
social media for quite sometime.

Kody Lukens (30:03):
It's been a while I was actually just thinking about
that yesterday, I was goingthrough my catalog and marking,
I hired a new virtual assistantrecently recently, she's been
awesome. But I'm going throughmy old videos and marking some
to be downloaded and re uploadedto Facebook or YouTube, since
those are newer platforms. Forme, I don't have a lot of my old
stuff on there. And I waslooking back and realizing I've

(30:23):
been doing this for a year, likea long time, closer to two years
than one. And I don't remember alot of these old videos that
I've made. I've made hundreds ofthem. And a lot of them are just
like, is that me in that video?I don't remember filming that
whatsoever.

Molly Hicks (30:40):
Right? And for some people, when they look back at
their content, they're like, Iam not that human anymore. I
don't want it out there. Youknow, like, so. Okay, yes. All
right. I will let you go aroundto motivations. And I'll get off
my soapbox now.

Angela Locashio (30:55):
Yay. Yeah. So motivation. All of this has led
up to that. Tell us about that.Like, what's your interest in
that? And how, what message doyou have for us about
motivation?

Kody Lukens (31:09):
Funny you say interest. I'm a big proponent of
the income acronym, which standsfor interest, novelty,
challenge, urgency and passion.And it was coined by think
William Dodson, he was apsychologist. And it essentially
means that neurodivergent peoplespecifically sorry, when I say
neuro, divergent, I'm used tojust saying that because when
you say autism on social media,it tends to get either flagged,

(31:33):
or people have just an internalbias, and we'll scroll past it.
And so since if I was just doingit for awareness, and education,
then I would just power throughthat. But since I'm also a
business owner, unfortunately,it's just not in the best
interest of the business to talkabout autism exclusively. Sorry,

(31:54):
this is a completely differenttopic, just because

Angela Locashio (31:57):
I love this conversation, what my nonprofit
is all about, it's like, not toand silo. All of this, take all
of the silos and bring them intoneurodiversity. As a whole, I
know people listening can't seeme making circles with my arms.
But it's there is never just oneintersectionality tells us,

(32:21):
there's never just one thinghappening. There's always a
whole bunch of thingsintersecting and happening at
the same time. So I think thatyour process is right on where
it needs to be. And it is theterm to be using.

Kody Lukens (32:32):
Thank you. I've also found that when I post
content online, related toautism, specifically, if it's
something aboutintersectionality between autism
and ADHD, a lot of people getreally, really up in arms about
it on one side or the other. Sothey're,

Angela Locashio (32:52):
I'm autistic and ADHD. So let's have that
conversation.

Molly Hicks (32:58):
Just it gets. People are PhD. Yeah. Yeah.

Kody Lukens (33:04):
All right. Well, hopefully people will
understand. That's nice. Iremember what I was saying. All
right. Are you familiar withsound of the forest on Tik Tok?
Yes, her name is Nicole. Sheposts about bugs and other sort
of like autism related things.Yeah, her account has been
banned so many times, becauseof, I remember the exact wording
they gave, but something to dowith like unsafe content related

(33:26):
to autism. So if you post aboutit, you're opening up the door
to whatever platform you're oneither outright banning you for?
I guess, because it the way thatthey phrased it was that they
wanted to protect autisticpeople. And it's like, Do you
realize that Nicole is autisticand is advocating for other

(33:48):
autistic people? This isn't hatespeech. This isn't like
demeaning. Why are you doingthis, but you'll also see
accounts focusing on autism getshadow banned, where say they
have, you know, a couple 100,000followers, they're getting 200
views per video. Obviously,something like that can also
happen naturally, if you know,people's interests change. And

(34:10):
the algorithm is like, hey,people don't want to watch this
content. But if you see a dropoff from 150,000 views average
down to 1000 over the course ofyou know, one video, that's a
bit of an indicator. Yep.Anyways, so long story short,
when I say neurodivergent Iusually am referring to more

(34:30):
specifically ADHD and autismbecause that's what the majority
of my content is focusing on.And obviously, it's an umbrella
term that covers a lot moredisorders and conditions
umbrella There we go. Than justADHD and autism, but when I use
it, that's usually what I'mspecifically referring to. I
don't remember why I was sayingthat. We're talking about

(34:50):
something earlier

Molly Hicks (34:51):
and cup in in cup.

Kody Lukens (34:53):
That's right. Yeah. Perfect. Lucky you go.
Specifically ADHD people aremotivated by I incut more so
than importance. And so if youthink, okay, I need to mow the
lawn, or I need to do thedishes. I know it's important,
but that doesn't motivate me todo it. Whereas in cup does

(35:13):
interest, novelty challenge,urgency and passion. So if
you're interested in somethingsuch as you know, you being
interested in the numbers,Molly, or Angela, I guess, you
being interested in Stimagz andthen going out and trying to
reach out to me, that can thenimmediately motivate you to do
something more so thanimportance ever could. And same
thing with challenge. Urgency isa big one. I don't know if you

(35:35):
like when you were in college,if you were in college, or high
school, always writing papers,the last minute, that's the very
last minute. Yep, that's verycommon ADHD, and knocking it

Angela Locashio (35:45):
out of the park to write. You write your paper a
week in advance, and it sucks.But you write your paper the
night before, and it is likeyou're laser focused.

Molly Hicks (35:55):
Yes. And it was always like, I know, for me,
anytime it was an English paper,I was like, I'm gonna write
about the most obscure thingthat they can't negate about
this story. And I, and then Iwould get an A, because no one's
ever come up with that before.That is brilliant. No, that was
me pulling something out my asstoday.

Kody Lukens (36:17):
In eighth grade, my teacher we had the whole
semester or trimester, I don'tremember what section it was on,
but to work on this one paper.And she kept on saying you
cannot wait until the lastminute to do this. And so I took
that as a challenge naturallyrotates the day before and got
100%. So right worked out well.And then also taught me how to
live my life. Last week class, Iwrote a paper about why I

(36:42):
thought the class was dumb.gotten a worked out. Well, as
long as you articulate yourself.Well, people are surprisingly
amicable to ideas like that.

Molly Hicks (36:49):
Yep, yes. Yep. No, that's, that's, yeah, love it.
So back to motivation.

Angela Locashio (36:58):
Alright. Okay, where were we we were, what
letter did we get on to incap?We are we on? We just said
urgency.

Kody Lukens (37:09):
urgency. A lot of them are kind of just exactly
what it sounds like. And passionand interest are pretty much the
same thing. But in cup soundsbetter than enqueue. So you have
to be on there as well. Butessentially, the more of those
motivators, you can stack ontoany given task, the easier it
will be for you to do that task.I always give the analogy of the

(37:31):
dishes or here's a new one. Iftaking a shower is really hard,
you have to get in the shower,you have to you know, wash your
hair, you have to scrub yourbody, all of that stuff. If you
can do it, like okay, I have toput on a playlist I have to do
my hair while this song isplaying. I have to you know, do

(37:53):
a face mask. Well this song isplaying and I have to get out
when this song plays. Likeadding that timing to it makes
it urgent. It could beinteresting, it can be
challenging to get those thingsdone on time. And that makes it
a lot easier than just okay, I'mgoing to get in the shower and I
have to do this thing and now Ihave to do this thing. And to
someone listening that does notstruggle with that. And that's

(38:15):
that's awesome. Good for you itin those situations it can be
difficult to understand why itis difficult for people like us
to do those things. It seemsjust so common sense. Like oh,
that's just part of being aperson you need to be able to do
that. It's not it's not alwaysthat simple. That's what we

Molly Hicks (38:33):
mean water is so great.

Kody Lukens (38:37):
I love water. I'm a waterborne no no

Molly Hicks (38:39):
I mean water touching you

Angela Locashio (38:43):
Yeah, I'm not

Molly Hicks (38:48):
Oh, go ahead, Angela. I

Angela Locashio (38:50):
don't know I've just like this is why people
tell us that we don't know howto people that's why we have the
opening that we have on thispodcast is like people tell us
we people wrong and it's likewell I don't people wrong. I
just don't people like you.Because for me the process of
getting in the shower is numberone a cognitive a big cognitive
load because of the sensoryissues that happened for me

(39:13):
around that I'm fine under thewater. But it is a huge
challenge to get in and then thegetting out and the mix between
the dry and the wet skin. No,it's very hard. So yeah, a lot
of people do not understand thatat all

Molly Hicks (39:30):
well and I have a little who refuses, refuses has
refused for two years. Obviouslywe still hate the child Don't
get me wrong, but we finallyfound a way to do it and he's on
their audit. Ah, this stick andADHD my brain cannot say those
words together. And I found bathbombs that have Hot Wheels and

(39:55):
jewelry and whatever inside ofthem. So we put them in the
bathtub. The child, and then putthe bath pump in the bathtub.
And then the water changescolors. And next thing you know,
maybe your hair will changecolors if we put your hair in
the Oh, sneakily puts theshampoo and Oh, it didn't change

(40:16):
colors next time we'll tryagain. And now somehow I've
gotten this child to bathe acouple of times.

Angela Locashio (40:23):
That's peeking that interest. Right. Pete?
Yeah. That interests for sure.

Kody Lukens (40:27):
Also, speaking of the intro, really quick, I'm
curious about the you mentioned,I think self care is bullshit
was the line. And I know youmentioned after that, I think
you said Community Care is whereit's at. I was hoping to hear a
bit more about that, becausethat's just that's rhetoric I
haven't heard before.

Angela Locashio (40:44):
Thank you. Thank you for noticing that.
Yes, I have actually had quite abit of feedback on saying that
self care is bullshit is not agood thing, blah, blah, blah.
And it's like, okay, well, let'slook at this because it is, and
this is a social and economicsecurity issue and a social

(41:04):
justice issue. Bo Burnham Thankyou, white woman, Instagram.
Wellness is something that isdependent on how much money you
have in our society right now.The only people who are allowed
to be well are white, cisgender,heterosexual, wealthy people.

(41:28):
And if you don't have thewealth, to be able to purchase
the things to be well, whetherit is health care, access to
health care, or go and get amassage, get a pedicure, go out,
go out with people get ababysitter for your kids. Notice
all of these things cost money.And we have to get away from

(41:51):
this narrative of this issomething that you are
responsible for yourselfcompletely. And we need to move
into the narrative of CommunityCare is where wellness comes
from. It's the community'sresponsibility to care for
itself to create sustainabilityin the community by caring for

(42:16):
providing access to that carefor all of its members,
regardless of the intersectionsthat they have.

Kody Lukens (42:27):
The healthcare ones an interesting point, the I got
COVID for the second time, ormaybe even the third over the
summer. And I had a heart issuecome from that. And I had to go
to the doctor a lot. And thedoctor that I was going to their
clinic has a really interestingstructure where it's a flat fee
of $50 a month. And I could goin as many times as I want, I

(42:51):
can make appointment, make anappointment just through texts,
just send them a message andsay, Hey, do you have any
availability today, and I can gointo hours later, as opposed to
having to make a phone call, Godforbid, I got builds a
unpredictable amount byinsurance every time I went to
the doctor probably seven oreight times that month alone.

(43:13):
And just know like having in theback of my mind that I'm not
going bankrupt by taking care ofmyself. Yes, it made it so much
easier to actually take care ofmyself. And that's a structure
that I shout out. Let's see,it's called direct primary care
if anyone listening to this isin Spokane, check out direct
primary care, they are awesome.

Angela Locashio (43:33):
We will put a link to that resource in there.
I also timestamp that becausethat's going to be like a clip
that we need to we need to takeout is the going bankrupt piece.
We shouldn't have to worry aboutgoing bankrupt to have basic
health care. Yeah. And that'swhat I mean when I say self care
is bullshit.

Kody Lukens (43:53):
That makes sense. I interpreted that very
differently. My definition ofself care is probably I guess, a
little less money dependent. Isuppose I because I play a lot
of video games, except I don'tbuy a lot of video games, I play
a lot of just the same ones thatI've played forever. So My
hobbies are pretty cheap. And byself care, I usually mean okay,

(44:16):
I'm going it's a Saturday, I'mgoing to sit down and eat some
ice cream, and then also a fewcarrots and play some video
games with the lights off.That's That's what self care
means to me. So that's just my

Angela Locashio (44:31):
pet. I'm gonna piggyback on that. I'm gonna
piggyback on that. You said Idon't spend a lot of money on
video games. But just like atamusement parks, you get more
and you have access to more ifyou're willing and able to pay
for it. That's true. So it couldbe that you don't have access to

(44:53):
certain members of the communityor certain things that would be
fun and interesting and all ofthose incap things for you So if
you didn't have to pay

Kody Lukens (45:02):
for the I certainly wasn't disagreeing I was, it was
really attempting to share my, Iguess personal perspective on
what to me.

Molly Hicks (45:12):
And so as much as Angela will say self care is
bullshit, she will tell you togo take care of yourself, in the
sense of Yeah, with the thingsthat you need to do that are
within your means and withinyour grasp, right, that are
going to help you gain morematches. Which Yes, there was an

(45:36):
episode yesterday about thatguilt there. Yes,

Angela Locashio (45:39):
absolutely. Absolutely. And the big thing
about self care is being able toask for support from others,
that the best self caretechnique that we have is
remembering that we can ask forhelp when we can't do that for
ourselves. Yes, I am so gladthat you brought that topic up
today. This kind of along thesame line. And this is also

(45:59):
going back to you talking aboutbeing an entrepreneur and the
transitions and the difficultythat you had with everything
having to be perfect, and notbeing able to allow for
mistakes. And that that'ssomething that you're really
working on. So you wereinterviewed in the Gonzaga

(46:20):
bulletin. And this is what yousaid, just put yourself out
there. Don't be afraid toembarrass yourself. You're going
to embarrass yourself along theway. And the sooner you can do
it, the sooner you can move pastthat and get where you actually
want to be. Can you I guess youcould say that? Yeah,

Kody Lukens (46:43):
let's let's see here. Yeah, I guess. Perfection
is perfectionism definitely tiesin of if I'm putting myself out
there. I don't want to embarrassmyself, obviously, I want people
to think that I know what I'mtalking about. And that I am
passionate about this. And thatit's not just some random thing
that I thought of. I was onceagain, I looked on a different

(47:07):
monitor and got distracted, losther train of thought there. But
the biggest hurdle for meinitially was and I would
suggest this for any smallbusiness owner, be get
comfortable in front of thecamera, even if it's just super
basic view, talking to thecamera and not even posting it,
just get comfortable talking tothe camera posting, it will

(47:28):
obviously be better, because youwill get some hate but you'll it
okay, I'm gonna back up anotherstep. At the first video that I
posted that got hate comments, Idon't remember which one it was,
but those really got to me. Andthen the next time I got those,
they didn't bother me as much.And then now if I got them, I'm
like, Oh, whatever. Fuck you.Sorry, I don't know if I can

(47:49):
swear on

Molly Hicks (47:49):
here. You can cuss No, you can and wonderful. You
can have an entire dissertationjust using the one word since it
it is all forms of speech. It isinteresting.

Angela Locashio (48:00):
Yeah, from a scientific cussing, engages the
parasympathetic nervous systemand helps us regulate. So go for
it.

Kody Lukens (48:07):
Okay, well, that explains a lot, I won't feel bad
about it anymore. But anyways,you get a lot of mental
resiliency, for putting yourselfout there as a person as well as
for your business. If you talkabout it online, and people hate
on it, obviously, you don't wantpeople to hate on it, it's still
never fun. But it's a lot easierto have, you know, get a few

(48:31):
hate comments, and then a fewmore, and then a few more. And
then even if you release yourproduct or service or whatever,
and people are really up in armsabout it. It's not going to
destroy you like it would if youwent from like nothing, nothing,
nothing to suddenly Hate. Like,I don't think I'm articulating
this super well. But puttingyourself out there as you know,

(48:51):
a genuine version of yourself orjust like comedy where you're
doing bits and it's not actuallyyou it feels different. If
you're if you're talking to thecamera directly as you compare
it to if you're doing like alittle skit where it's two
different characters that aren'treally you. You're a little bit
more emotionally detached fromthat. And yeah, I don't think

(49:13):
articulated that super well, buthopefully made some degree of
sense. Yeah, no,

Angela Locashio (49:17):
I love it. Because in our community, and
oh, my gosh, we hear this allthe time. All the time. Just
yesterday, I was talking to anemerging coach. And she said, I
cannot get in front of thecamera. And every time I do I, I
just blank and I don't know whatto say. So I said, Molly, we

(49:39):
need we need to be talking toMarco Polo since we talked about
them so much. Oh, yeah. Right.We need to talk with them.
Anyway. I said, I said to her, Isaid look, get Marco Polo, and
have a couple of friends who youregularly talk to also get Marco
Polo and have conversations withthem through that app. Because
you can download pieces of thatconversation. So you're not in

(50:03):
the mode of Oh no, I'm beingfilmed. But at the same time you
are taking a video that can beused. As you learn that process
of getting in front of thecamera. It's a great tool and a
great app to help those peoplewho don't like that.

Kody Lukens (50:19):
Yeah, and being able to advocate for your
business personally, as opposedto relying on someone who you
hire specifically to do thatgoes so far. And it definitely
helped enable me to win abusiness competition in believe
it was last April before waybefore the kickstart anything
got $10,000 in prize money forthat, which was awesome all went

(50:41):
towards the company. That's whatallowed us to make the mold
because making a mold issurprisingly expensive for
injection, injection molding.But the fact that I'd already
been posting on Tik Tok formonths and months and months
prior to that made me so muchmore comfortable in front of the
camera and dealing withcriticism from the judges, and
picking apart my opponentspitches and trying to figure out

(51:05):
ways to one up them or likelistening to okay, that Judge
asked this question about this,that this aspect of their
business, that means thatsomething that's important to
them. So that's something I'mgoing to make sure I emphasize
in my presentation, or in myround of questions. And so yeah,
my number one tip for smallbusiness owners would be be
comfortable in front of thecamera or learn to be
comfortable in front of thecamera to some extent, to where

(51:26):
you can personally advocate foryour business in a way that is
compelling. I certainly wouldnot be or stimpacks would not be
where it is. Now, without all ofthe connections that I made
through creating content on mypersonal page, I wouldn't have
been able to get in contact withany of the people that are now
brand ambassadors for Stimagz,there's no chance, if I were

(51:47):
just coming out of it as like,Hey, I'm making this product for
ADHD people. And I think Itouched on this a bit earlier.
But and you know, obviouslydon't have to make an account
focused on content for whateveryour niche is for a year and a
half before launching a product.That's overkill. But being
knowledgeable and beingcomfortable, are huge.

(52:08):
Absolutely

Molly Hicks (52:09):
have one last subject. All right. I think
we'll round it up, which I didnot, we did not have this
question before. And I didn'tknow if this was something you
deal with. So but it has been aconversation for not just Angela
and I but me and several of myclients as well. So I'm going to

(52:29):
assume a lot of people in thecommunity have this question
too. So RSD have you? Are you aperson who has RSD? Or has been
dealing with others that haveRSD? And have had to handle this
within your business? And howhave you if you have

Kody Lukens (52:50):
definitely so RSD rejection sensitive dysphoria,
technically, is not a medicalterm. But I think it's going to
be one of those things where, intime, the medical community will
likely catch up and implementsome variation of the current
understanding or the current, Iguess, communal understanding of
RSD into the DSM five, or Isuppose to be DSM six or

(53:13):
something along those lines. Iexpect that to happen at some
point. But just to clarify. Justbecause I've talked about that
on my pages before, and so Ijust didn't want people to like
hear it and think like, Wait, hethat's not what he said earlier.
But anyways, yes, that isdefinitely something that I have
dealt with and continued to dealwith. It's a lot easier to deal
with when, for example, like ifI'm having a bad day, and I'm

(53:34):
thinking oh, people don't likeschematics. I'm the only one
that actually likes them. Peopleare just I don't know doing this
because they're like, Oh, lookat look at this, look at this
guy's doing his dream sure allbuy one, and then it sits on a
shelf. And then I will go andread the hundreds of positive
reviews that have been leftabout Stimagz or some of the

(53:55):
watch some of the testimonialvideos. And that's obviously
something you can only do afteryou've already put your thing
out there. So it doesn't helpwith the initial impostor
syndrome or RSD. And that wassomething I really struggled
with even leading up to thelaunch. Especially because
initially before they were outthere at all, and there were

(54:15):
people advocating for thembeyond just me, people would
very frequently say, Oh, theseare just blank, or these are
just blank, like referencingthose toys that I had as a kid.
And I sort of gaslit myself intothinking, oh my gosh, these are
just the same thing. I'm afraud. And that I had to remind
myself of know, if they were thesame thing, I would still just

(54:37):
be using those I wouldn't havemade my own product there would
have been no point in doingthat. And now it's a lot easier
to combat that in terms of youknow, those hundreds of positive
reviews and people like likeYouTube who really enjoy Stimagz
that just that makes my heartwhole, knowing that my baby is

(54:57):
giving people so much joy If youcan, sorry, to go back to the
original question overcoming RSDfor you have those many sources
of validation. And it's a loteasier to internally validate
yourself. Once you have externalvalidation to fall back on, it's
a bit of a trap. But in theshort term, try to find people,

(55:22):
or try to remind yourself of whyyou're doing what you're doing.
And just keep that in the coreof your brain. If no matter what
else, anyone else says, Don'tlet yourself gaslight yourself
into thinking that what you'redoing doesn't matter. Because if
you're passionate aboutsomething, it almost certainly
matters, at least to you. Andthat's enough, because people, I

(55:45):
guess this goes more to themarketing side. But even if
you're selling a useless thing,if people see that you're
passionate about it, that may beenough to convince them to buy
it, even if they don't actuallyreally want it, or they don't
actually really like it. Ifsomeone sees how passionate you
personally are about somethingthat you've made, that may be
enough, obviously, don't baseall of your marketing around

(56:08):
that. But right,

Angela Locashio (56:09):
but that does get people to try something that
they wouldn't try initially.It's like, Oh, look how excited
they are about it. Let's try it.I don't know that I'm gonna like
it, but I'm gonna try it. Yeah,and I might love it.

Molly Hicks (56:22):
That's an especially true statement. If
you are doing something likeIndiegogo or Kickstarter as
well, yeah. Because it's a thingnobody's had before. Like, so
you'll come on, and you're like,this took a really long time to
make, please buy it, like peopleare gonna be like, Well, no. You
have to have some energy and notenergy like bubbles from

(56:47):
Powerpuff. Girls, like, I'm justlike,

Kody Lukens (56:50):
people need to see your passion come through.

Angela Locashio (56:52):
Yeah. Yeah, you have to you have to spark their
income. Okay, I have to I haveto jump on this for just a
minute. Because you touched onthat self care and community
care, again, talking about RSDinvalidation. Because truly the
response to addressing when youare aware of your own RSD, and

(57:17):
being able to address that isbeing able to have that internal
thing where you're like, okay,but that's not actually true.
Here's what's actuallyhappening. And you know, I'm
good enough, I'm smart enoughand Gosh, darn it, people like
me, right? Like, however, inorder to get to that point,

(57:39):
engaging in the community careand having people who you can
reach out to who can help on theexternal side, while you are
building that skill is pivotalto that happening for you.

Kody Lukens (57:54):
Indeed, and that goes a bit back to that quote
that you pulled from the Gonzagabulletin of you're going to
embarrass yourself. So do it, doit sooner rather than later. So
you can move on, is the sooneryou. At some point, you have to
just you have to stop thinkingand just send it. Like I put off
the Kickstarter for so long. Iteventually got to a point like
no, I'm setting a date and I'mannouncing it. I'm now beholden

(58:16):
to that date. So I was tappingon my table. Sorry if that
causes vibrations in the sound.But at some point, you just got
to turn off the emotional brainand just go for it before
thinking about it too much,especially if you're poring over
the same thing. For days anddays and days. You're like,
Okay, I've, I've looked throughthis document, I'm changing one
word every two hours of lookingat it. Just say like, Nope, it's

(58:39):
done sending it not thinkingabout it. It's tough.

Molly Hicks (58:44):
Business. Yeah.

Angela Locashio (58:46):
I absolutely said this the other day, I said,
it doesn't have to be perfect.Not everything is going to be
perfect. But, you know,consistently sending a message
and consistently, you know,being authentic to yourself or
to your company or to yourproject. That's the key, not
perfection.

Kody Lukens (59:05):
Yeah.

Molly Hicks (59:07):
All right. Well, I think we could probably talk for
several hours. I think this iskind of I'm not sure that all of
our difference can handle.Although if we're special
interests, and they could go onforever, too. But we, is there
anything else you want to saybefore we close this episode?

Kody Lukens (59:29):
If you want you could split it into two parts.
That's what I did with one of mylong episodes because it just
went on for a while of us justhaving good conversation. And
people did say it made it a bitmore digestible. Just Just a
thought. I don't know where thatsplit would happen. But you
could do that if you want it tomake it a bit easier for people.
Yeah, yeah. So that wasn't avery good closing thought I

(59:50):
suppose.

Angela Locashio (59:51):
Yes, but we share things like that. And
that's how we show our love.Yes,

Kody Lukens (59:56):
info dumping is huge. I guess it's really info
dump just sharing but anyways,thank you so much for having me
on. I had a great time chatting,chatting with you all and I'm so
glad you you're enjoying yourstomachs.

Angela Locashio (01:00:08):
Thank you so much. Molly, do you have
anything else?

Molly Hicks (01:00:13):
I don't have anything else you can do the
outro

Angela Locashio (01:00:16):
Awesome. Okay, thanks for listening to drudgery
dreams and in between a weeklylive podcast coming to you every
Tuesday at 9am Central 7amPacific. If you're checking this
live, if checking if you'recatching this live on YouTube,
be sure to subscribe to ourchannel for updates when we're
back here next week. For all youpodcast geeks, subscribe on your
favorite podcast app. If you'dlike to support the podcast be

(01:00:39):
sure to leave a rating andreview and share with your
friends. To catch all the latestfrom us. Visit us at drudgery
and dreams.com and follow us onyour favorite social media
platforms at drudgery anddreams. Thanks again. See you
next time.