August 28, 2023 • 69 mins
Alec is a solo dad who has navigated loss, healing, and empowerment along the way. In this heartfelt conversation, I delve into the challenges of becoming a widower and the importance of support during difficult times. During the conversations, you will hear Alec talk on:
- coping with grief
- finding purpose in adversity
- and empowering others
This episode holds a special place in my heart and I hope you are inspired and uplifted. Be sure to follow me on IG for exclusive content @EveryLPodcast
More about Alec:
TBC
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
I remember my doctor called me up, a GP at thetime, within a couple of days, and he offered
donances and said, if I need anything, I shouldlet him know. So didn't see me in person, didn't
assess my mental health or anything like that,but was offering me medication. So I politely
(00:22):
refused, said no, I'll fulfill that I need to,then maybe, but no. And I never did. And this
is no judgment on anybody because we all dealwith things, we all process things, we all
work differently. But again, for me, I had tosit in it. I had to feel the rawness of it.
(00:46):
I didn't want to numb it. I didn't want to blankit out. This was the life. This was the hand
that has been dealt to me.
(01:07):
Welcome ladies and gentlemen, I'm your host,Mack Brown and you're listening to the Every
L Podcast. Each episode we'll have a differentguest come on and talk about when life hangs
you in L, is it really a loss or is it somethingelse? Because not every L's a loss. So sit
back, relax and do what every guy do to getcomfortable as we get into this. Let's go!
(01:39):
Welcome everyone to another episode of EveryHell Podcast. For each episode, we have a different
guest. Come on and talk about experiences they'vegone through, how it seemed at the time, what
they went through, mentally, physically, emotionally,sometimes even financially. And just explore
the rollercoaster of emotions, the rollercoasterof circumstances, who was still in their life,
(01:59):
who left their life in terms of support. Andin hindsight, was it an L or was it something
else? Because we all... can look from the outside,looking at various people's lives and think
that they are where they should be, that they'rean amazing individual. And we have no idea
what they've been through, how, what they'vehad to overcome to be the version of themselves
(02:21):
they are today. And I'm so grateful for thevarious guests that have come on and share
these stories. And this guest, cliche as itmay sound, because every episode so far I've
said this, I've got a fantastic guest. Thisperson is a fantastic guest. However, I do
know their story that they're gonna talk about.I don't know every component to this story,
but this person, I can honestly tell you, hasshaped a lot of the way I think, how I approach
(02:46):
certain situations, and I've just got so muchlove and affection for this person. This person
I've known for maybe three years now, and he'sjust an incredible human being. Forget the
fact he's a father, forget the fact that heis just an amazing intellectual human being.
(03:09):
Him as a pure soul, as a pure entity, he isone of those people that is just shaping this
world to be a better place. He just gives thatso much. He may not even know it. The way I
talk so highly of him when he's never aroundme is just, yeah. He's had a big impact on
me and I just love him for who he is, for howhe is. I'm telling you, when you meet people
(03:34):
that just do stuff to you that just... liftyou up to give you encouragement, give you
strength to help you positively change how youthink, give them flowers because it's lonely
sometimes, but not everyone's willing to acceptthese truths or to be exposed to this lie.
And my guests, Alec, I love you. I love youfor what you do, love you for what you stand
(03:54):
for, and I just love how you challenge me ona regular basis. And it's not even, I know
you don't do it in a malicious way, it's justyou growing. and I'm then incentivized to grow
as well. So much appreciated to you. So happyto have you as a guest. Guys, girls, how have
you identified this guy? Amazing. Not sayinganyone else is not amazing because that's not
(04:15):
the case, but we all got our own version ofamazing and this guy does it for me. Before
we go and talk about his L that he's gonna discuss,I'm gonna ask him to introduce himself before
we go into his first L. Alec, how are you doing,my friend? I'm good, man. I was just sat here
thinking, who's he talking about? Is there someother guest that you're bringing on? Because
(04:37):
I don't know who this person is. So I wouldhave swapped you out.
Man, that's a lot to live up to, man. That'sa lot to live up to. But I appreciate the love.
It's definitely reciprocal. Yeah, I am Alec.I am 50. I'm a. solo dad to two boys with 13
(05:06):
and 10. You know, come from a technology backgroundin the corporate world. And these days, yeah,
I'm living life at a different pace, intentionallychosen to do so. Part of that was forced, but
yeah, the rest of it, certainly since the lockdownsand the pandemic. Not that I wasn't living
(05:33):
the purposeful life before, but the purposewas more of
an add-on thing that I did. And what has happenednow is the purpose has become what I do, so
my purpose, my values, core principles, ethics,morals aren't just something that I do when
(05:58):
I can fit it into my schedule. Yeah. that hasbecome everything. Everything has become that
almost. And that might sound a bit cryptic becauseI'm still figuring it out myself. But yeah,
that's where I'm at. I'm enjoying what I doin terms of my calling. And when I look back
(06:28):
throughout the things that I've been through.Not that everything happens for a reason, but
I can see how so many things in my life havecontributed to the work that I do now to help
and empower others, both from a mindset perspective,from wellbeing, resilience, and self mastery.
(06:51):
And that just sits in the sweet spot of howI live my life and how I try to show up. every
day, not in terms of having to put on an actor pretend to be something that I'm not. This
is just who I am. So, you know, your point aroundchallenging you. Yeah, it's never from a point
(07:16):
of criticism or anything for everyone. It'salways from a point of love. I'm wanting everyone
to be the best that they can be, whatever thatis, whatever their heart's desires are. And
that's it. I think you mentioned before aboutliving up to it. It's the life you're living.
(07:36):
It's the fact that you're, you're living ata different pace. You're in it, but you're,
it feels like you're in it, but you're not ofit. You know, through situations, I'm going
to assume you've had to reevaluate a lot ofwhat you do and why you do it. And I feel that's
healthy. It's at least for me to always questionand challenge and try to understand. why am
(08:01):
I doing this? Why am I doing it this way ifnothing else? And that's one of the things
I just appreciate. You know, there is that sayingabout iron sharpens iron and I feel it very
much does. And certain people around you willenable you to carry bad behavior and just perpetuate
what's gone before. And other people will notsay in a malicious way, will say it with love
and just sort of plant the seed of why are youdoing this? And it's no harm doing it, but
(08:24):
the way you're doing it, is that the right wayfor you and your dynamic? And- you being who
you are and still figuring it out, which iskey for me because I don't think anyone's gonna
land at the place that they deserve to be atall times. It's always shifting, changing,
growing, evolving. And that's what you're mindfulof. And I just resonate with that. So listeners,
(08:44):
definitely you're in for a treat. Actually,when I say listeners, forget you guys. It's
all about me. I'm gonna enjoy this conversation.
So for this episode, For this episode, Alecwould like to talk about becoming a widower.
Now this, I have heard this story a few times,just because it's close to my heart. And I'm
(09:12):
very mindful. Like I said before, I don't knowevery component involved in this. I never will.
But I love the fact that Alec is willing toraise awareness around things like this, because...
These are things that you don't always hearabout and it can be a very sore subject for
people to bring up, talk about and relive ina lot of instances. But yeah, Alec, if you
(09:34):
don't mind going back to where you feel it'srelevant to start and just take me through
that L of becoming a widower for you. Yeah.
So, as I said, I've got a 13-year-old and a10-year-old, and the long and short of it is
(09:57):
back in 2012. I quit corporate world. It wasalways part of the master plan. My eldest was
a few months shy of two at the time, and mywife and I were... expecting our second child
(10:23):
in March 2013. And so quitting the corporateworld at the end of November 2012 was part
of our plan to say, hey, live life differently,live it at a different pace. Trekking up into
London on the daily, it was just not sustainable.And the plan was always before my oldest kids
(10:46):
to the age of three, I'd have stopped. doingthat, leaving the house after seven, not getting
back until after seven, the commute, trekkingup into London, getting into Waterloo, Fort
Lewin City Line, and then everyone likes sardinesand it can. And people did that and still are
(11:08):
doing that for their careers, but it was notwhat I wanted, it was not what we wanted. So
for all intents and purposes, that was the firststep towards the new life that we were building
together for our family. And it was a greatfeeling to know that, one, I'd get to spend
(11:35):
a lot more time with my eldest son, but therewould be no getting paternity leave for however
many weeks it was gonna be the birth of my.second child and then having to go back into
work and then going through all of that. Itwas great and start up a new business venture,
we've jointly done that. So yeah, but you know,fate had other plans.
(12:06):
We get to March of 2013.
Day after the due date, my wife starts experiencingsome pain, so we go to hospital. Didn't think
(12:27):
anything was wrong at all. It was a slightlydifferent process compared to the birth of
my eldest, but nothing that... that caused usany concern.
(12:49):
We've gone to the hospital in the morning, afternine o'clock or 10 o'clock, and we ended up
being there all day, seven o'clock in the evening.My wife gives birth to our second son, but
after giving birth and coming back on the ward,she's not feeling great, so she gets rushed
(13:16):
back in to... theater, she was rushed into theater.Yeah, five hours later she passed away.
So there I am, a newborn baby, literally a newborn,and a three-year-old thinking, what the hell
(13:43):
has just happened? It wasn't supposed to belike this. Why me? Why us? How am I going to
do this? Is it fair? What the hell did we doto deserve this?
Yeah, whole load of darkness at a time thatwas supposed to be joy, a time that was supposed
(14:10):
to be a celebration, a time that was supposedto be another step forward in this new life
that we were creating for ourselves just gotconsumed by this dark cloud.
But you know, here I am, 10 years later, andI've been able to build a new life for myself
(14:38):
and for my boys.
And as much as the pain of losing Hazel willnever go away because she's still an absolute
significant part of our lives, she might notbe here in physical presence, but... spiritually,
(14:59):
she's here with us, she lives on in both ourboys. And pretty much every day, you know,
I tell her that I miss her, and I hear a voicein my head, not in that way. Just, you know,
recounting some of her mannerisms and yeah,recently, I went away and spent some time.
(15:27):
some family and in some of.
in part of the time that I was there, two songscame to me and these are songs that I know
well and like a good few people of a certaingeneration will do as well. And there were
(15:49):
two Michael Jackson songs and the first onewas You Are Not Alone and that song has always
meant a lot to me anyway.
Yeah, so I've been playing that a lot recently.And the second song was Man in the Mirror.
(16:15):
And for where I am right now, it's very fittingthat those two songs have just come to me in
a...
are hitting something that
I need to hear for different reasons. You know,needing to hear those two things. Yeah, I will
(16:45):
always feel that Hazel is with us and that we'llnever be alone. And then in terms of, you know,
my purpose, my calling. being the change thatI want to see in the world, man in the mirror
is also very fitting.
(17:11):
Yeah. Question, when you got to the March time,a day past the due date, the pregnancy itself
as a whole, as far as you're concerned, nothingsinister, nothing that was telling that things
potentially were gonna go that way. No, nothingat all. So.
(17:38):
you go to the hospital. Yeah. Where was yourson, your eldest? So my wife's parents, they
had they, they were living a couple of monthsdown the road. So they came to the house to
look after him while I took Hazel to the hospital.So in laws come over. Yeah, we'll look after
(18:01):
little man. See you guys in a few hours lookingforward to meeting little man. part two, his
brother, however you want to describe him, goingthere, happy, you know, these are good times,
you know, we've been waiting for this, we'vebeen counting the days down because we now
got to the safety point where at this junction.Yep. I know, and this is in no comparison to
(18:25):
yourself, but I think there might be some sortof feelings. When I watched my wife try to
give birth because she ended up doing a C-sectioneventually for our firstborn. I remember as
twins because it was easier to do with the twins,the twins firstborn. But I couldn't help but
see the exhaustion in my wife's face, how tiredshe got. She even turned blue when she was
(18:48):
under the knife getting the C-section done.And I was thinking, I've done this to her and
it wasn't a solo effort, obviously. It was ajoint venture that we'd done this. But I'm
thinking how I felt fearful in that moment.Did you feel that way when you had your first
born? Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Because...
(19:14):
Our eldest was born in a revised C-section.I was able, I can't remember the category,
but whatever the category of C-section, I wasallowed into the theater. So, you know, I'd
gowled up and, you know, I was with her talkingto her and the medical staff were doing their
(19:35):
thing at the business end. And yeah, so frombeing with her. through the labour and then
our eldest, his heart rate had dropped, so theysaid, hey, we need to do a C-section. But,
you know, went into theatre, he was born, stayedin a couple of nights just to monitor, but
(20:06):
we were back home and getting on with beingnew parents. So... this time round, the second
time round, but they'd said, oh yeah, you know,we need to do a C-section. So again, you know,
I didn't really think anything was wrong. Andeven when they said, actually, no, you can't
(20:28):
come in this time, okay, you know, again, yeah,I just didn't think anything of it, or at least,
you know, the medical team didn't give me anyreason to think. but I guess, well not I guess,
the differences. So there's a condition calledamniotic fluid embolism, AFE, and it's an extremely
(20:55):
rare condition that can occur during childbirthand during C-sections, where for whatever reason,
(21:16):
the mother's body reacts, has an allergic reactionto the amniotic fluid, causes a cardiac arrest,
lungs, heart, whatever, and that's what happened.So, very few medical...
(21:40):
who are working in the maternity will ever seesomething like that because it's that rave
globally. Doctors in the medical world don'tknow why it happens. They understand symptoms
that manifest, and they understand some of thecontext from the data that they've gathered.
(22:09):
but they still don't know, because obviouslyamniotic fluid gets into the mother's bloodstream,
because it's just part of the process. But whyit causes an allergic reaction is still unknown.
And in most cases, it's fatal. Some women survive,but in most cases, it's fatal.
(22:35):
it's hard and I'm glad that you can relate tothis and not just me on my own and that situation
that guy oh my gosh like what's happened hereyeah but even when it was that four shit I
was allowed in there for the second and thirdwhen it came to it yeah so again was I stressed
as much as I was the first time no because Iguess after the first time you kind of go like
came I've seen it once already yeah you knowsecond time if I'm there I'm there if I'm not
(22:59):
at least I'm in the vicinity
baby was born. Was you then allowed in thereor? So little one went into the NICU because
they needed to give Hazel some antibiotics justto allow for little one and group B strep.
(23:26):
And so yeah, he'd gone into the NICU but yeah,apart from recovering. After she recovered,
Hazel was just out into the maternity ward.I went round to see her and we were talking
for a bit of time. It was only when they startedto run some tests and then she started complaining
(23:55):
for a few things that it became clear that somethingwasn't right.
So, Yungisyn Niku, your bedside with MartinHazel. And as far as you're concerned, she's
in some discomfort, but for the most part, tobe a you, no professional has told you things
(24:22):
are potentially in a really bad way. So she'dmade these complaints. They have then taken
her away after they realized things are escalating.Has anyone communicated to you in any way,
shape or form at this point that things couldbe going a certain direction? No, no, it was
(24:44):
only really after she was in theatre for a coupleof hours, when I was like, you know, something's
not right, and the consultant came out and providedan update, but it was, yeah, it was clear things
weren't really going. But to what extent thatwasn't clear. What was you going through at
(25:12):
that point mentally? Because was you able tosee your youngest? Yes. So, yeah, at some point
during that, yeah, they had said, you know,do you want to come through to the NICU to
see him? I couldn't pick him up or hold himbecause he was in, you know, one of those unit
things. The incubator. Incubator, that's theword I was looking for. Yeah, he was one of
those. But yeah, I was able to see him. seeinghim in the incubator, not the nicest place
(25:38):
cause my youngest was in the incubator for severaldays but must've been a joy to be able to see
him to be able to just bask in that presenceof a newborn baby and kind of, kind of take
your mind off the fact that your wife's notin the ward like she was prior to that. Yeah.
(26:00):
Like where was your head? Because when my youngestwas a Niku, I had every bit of hope that things
would work out because I wanted to believe thingswould work out. But I could not be naive to
the fact that there's a chance it won't be allright because you wouldn't be in here if they
(26:24):
didn't think there was a possibility. How didyou feel staring at your newborn? not knowing
the full extent of what's going on in the theatrewith your wife, with how many doctors and nurses,
what was going through your mind and how didyou think things were going to look going forward
(26:49):
in your life versus what you had planned. Yeah,it's hard to recall exactly how I felt. But
it was definitely mixed, of course. But I hadto believe that she was going to be OK, because
that's what we'd planned. I had to believe thatshe was going to be coming out. Clearly it
(27:14):
wasn't going to be that night. Or, well, wewere well into the early hours of the following
day by then. But, um. eldest and he was expectingme to bring Mummy home and his younger sibling.
So that's sitting there, just looking, thinking,hoping, everything's gonna be all right. When
(27:42):
is it that you find out things are the startof a new life for you? Yeah, the consultant
came out the theater and he didn't need to sayanything, just saw it on his face. I just didn't
want to hear it. Just didn't want to hear it.
(28:09):
But yeah.
Yeah, gave me the bad news.
No words to explain.
hearing that my words can never explain, thatmoment will stay with me forever.
(28:51):
what was your reaction? I assume there is noright reaction if you understand where I'm
coming from but I can only imagine just thisis wrong, this is a lie. This isn't, no. Exactly,
I remember saying, no, can't be right.
(29:18):
That's as much as I remember in that moment.As far as you can remember, when did you suddenly
realize that now that has been confirmed toyou, when did your mind start thinking about
your family? And I asked the question becauseit was, and I'm trying to not keep it to myself,
(29:42):
I'm trying to show the connection for whereI'm coming from. Sure. When I found out I was
having twins. I thought I was going into thefear going for the sonography appointment,
the baby healthy, yay or nay, there's one inthere calm, we'll pick we'll choose between
a boy and a girl's name, we'll discover thesex later on. Carry on. When it was twins,
(30:02):
you think I was thinking about any of that stuffanymore. My head was somewhere else because
that was a shock to my system. I was tryingto process the new the new information that
has been conveyed to me. So I can only imagineif you've just been taken to a private area,
(30:23):
you're hoping the words that are going to comeout of his mouth are not the words that are
going to come out his mouth. It's hit you. You'restill processing it as it's being said to you.
And then you at some point I'm assuming youhad a sense of, what am I gonna do with my
(30:45):
newborn? What am I gonna tell my other son?What am I gonna say to her parents? How am
I going to, you know where I'm going with this.When did that become a concern? I don't know.
(31:07):
I don't know when it became because I just thinkit was shot. Shakovich was just... Yeah, he
was just numbing. He was just numbing, and Iknow in the passage of time...
at some point and those thoughts came to me.But in that immediate aftermath, yeah, it was
(31:37):
just too numbing to even think beyond what thehell has just happened. How long after you
got that news, was you able to take your youngesthome? Yeah, two days. So, we'd gone in on a
Monday morning. I brought him home by the Wednesdayafternoon. Did you have anyone around you that
(32:01):
was comforting you or you confided in him? Yeah,yeah. Family and friends rallied around. I
had a lot of support, a lot of support to getme through. It was, you know, first few hours,
days, literally people turned up on my doorstepwhatever way they could. How was it explaining
(32:29):
the news to your eldest? He was three, so hedidn't understand.
At the best, kids don't have any full appreciationof the concept of death until closer to the
age seven, depending on their level of maturity.So as much as I explained it to him, he didn't
(32:59):
understand. He was still expecting mommy tocome back home and took. upteen times of saying
the same thing. There's a number of bereavementcharities out there that are specifically there
to help bereaved children. And so I was ableto be in contact with them and got a lot of
(33:22):
help and support from them. And for a good fewyears afterwards actually. And they were able
to help me navigate trying to... to help himunderstand and come to terms with it once he
was of an age where he could fully understand.And not only that, you know, the support they
(33:43):
provided with my youngest as well, because hesuffered a bereavement too and from a mum that
he never ever met, never knew. So yeah, youknow, they've provided lots of support to me
and to them to help us all through this. Andwhat charity was that? there's two, so Winston's
(34:05):
Wish was one and Child Bereavement UK, amazingcharities. And did they help you through the
grieving process and as well as the more practicalside of dealing with your newborn and your
eldest? Yeah, their focus was specifically onchildren, so providing material and explanations
(34:30):
of how children grieve. and what you can dois to support them and tools and practices
and also things like how can you help othershelp you better service material on you can
give to friends and family to say hey this ishow you can help me so that was yeah that was
(34:55):
really useful as well actually. Did you dealwith any of this in a negative way or out of
character and if so how did you deal with it?I don't know, maybe you should ask my friends,
family, in terms of whether it was out of character,because you can't help, but you're not yourself
(35:17):
when you've been through something like thisanyway. But also, fun for me, that overriding
thought in the early days was...
I can't do anything about it right now, butI know I have to be the best that I can be
(35:41):
because I'm a solo parent with two boys. Andif I don't get the help and support, mentally,
emotionally, and spiritually, then I'm not gonnabe able to be the best dad that I can be for
them. I'm not gonna be able to. be the dad thatHazel would have wanted me to be for them.
(36:07):
So while they were in those immediate aftermath,weeks, months, first few years, so much felt
out of my control because I felt that I wasalways playing catch up, always behind. I knew
that I had to get professional help. I feltthat I needed to. being the company of other
(36:35):
widowers in a similar situation and I joinedmembership of a charity called Widowed and
Young, another amazing charity that supportspeople who have been widowed, people who have
been widowed under the age of 50. There wasanother charity... I can't remember, it was
(36:56):
part of a bigger charity, but they had a division,if you like, called Widow and Young Support
Group, and they actually had a weekend retreatfor widows and widowers, and I went to that,
when was that, in the, probably six months,within six months, I saw a therapist, within
(37:18):
a few weeks, and had a good few sessions. Iwent to a peer support group for, for Widowers.
So I was doing everything that I could to tryand give me as best a fighting chance as possible.
(37:38):
Stay sane, you know, to not lose the plot. Because,yeah, it was really clear to me that, or I
felt that's what I needed to do. If, yeah, itwas, yeah, it was significantly important for
me to stay the same. Not that I was expectingto be all of a sudden just have recovered and
(38:01):
be brilliant, but I knew that I couldn't just,don't know what the right word is, because
it's, sit in it and let it eat away at me andjust over the passage of time for it to be,
for it to define who I was, for it to definethe lives that... myself and my boys would
(38:24):
have. I just knew crystal clear that wasn'tan option for us. Was there any part of you
that was prideful that was, nah, I'm not gonnaask for help. I don't need help. I can do this
myself. No, no. You know, it was again, it wasreally clear that there was no way I was going
(38:47):
to get through this without help and support.There's just no way. was too big. It's too
big. And as much as close friends and familyhave always seen me as someone that was independent
and maybe previously might have not offeredhelp in different scenarios, they all knew
(39:11):
that actually, yeah, well, at least some ofthem knew and took it upon themselves to say,
hey, yeah, we've got you. We've got you. Wheredid you get this sense of? resilience, because
I would like to, no, I don't want to say I like,that's a lie. I have heard through multiple
(39:36):
conversations I've had, where some people haveconsidered throwing in the towel at other life
events. Yeah. Never once in any, any conversationsI've heard you when you share these stories,
have I ever. ever heard you talk about friendhotel it's like it is off the table that is
(39:59):
not an option never
I don't know, man. It's just not how I'm wired.You know, it's just not how I'm wired. And,
you know, is it genetic? Is it something else?I don't know. Like I said, within the first
(40:25):
few days, it was clear that I don't know howI'm gonna do this, but I had to do this. And
you couldn't do it on my own, friends and familythere to support. Yes, I couldn't see the wood
for the trees. But the driving force was theboys need me, the boys need me. Hazel would
(40:48):
want me to do the best that I can, not be perfect,not get everything right, because that's what
life is about. But as long as I was continuallytrying to do my best, and I would stumble,
and as long as I would get up, stumble, getup, stumble, get up. You know, at one point...
(41:10):
It was just about getting through every hour.How long is this gonna last for, really? Because
this is painful, just trying to get throughevery hour. But over time, it became, oh, get
through a couple of hours. I mean, I didn'tsleep for seven months. I just caught a little
(41:35):
bit of shut-eye here and there for seven months.So I just couldn't sleep in our bed. slept
on the sofa, did my back in. You know, I hadthe Moses basket next to me so I could do his
feeding, the little one. And you know, newbornbaby, there's so much to do. There's so much
(41:58):
to focus on. So a good part of the focus wenton him and my eldest being there for them,
supporting them. So some of it, it made partof the day's have a routine because, you know.
get up, feed. Alice needs to go to nursery,clothes sorted out, got some activity, little
(42:21):
one needs feeding every four hours, bottlesmade up, et cetera. So in some ways, I guess
that probably helped because then I wasn't ableto just sit around. In fact, although I had
help and support at times, and I needed thatbreak, I needed. to sometimes just have some
(42:43):
nights to myself, which people came over andlooked after one for me, but I still didn't
sleep, couldn't sleep. But in some ways, lookingback at it now, I know I needed that time,
because I needed space and time for myself,but in some ways... That made having to sit
(43:08):
in it and have nothing to do. And so experiencethe rawness, the reality of it was hard, but
again, that ended up being part of the journeythat I needed to experience and I needed to
sit in it.
(43:42):
I remember my doctor called me up, a GP at thetime, within a couple of days, and he offered
donancies and said, you know, if I need anything,I should let him know. So didn't see him in
person, didn't assess my mental health or anythinglike that, but was offered me medication. So
(44:07):
I politely refused, said, no, I'll fulfill thatI need to. then maybe, but no, and I never
did. This is no judgment on anybody becausewe all deal with things, we all process things,
we all work differently. But again, for me,I had to sit in it. I had to feel the rawness
(44:31):
of it. I didn't want to numb it. I didn't wantto blank it out. This was the life. This was
the hand that has been dealt to me, numbingthe pain. as much as it was awful. And I wouldn't
want to, I would prefer obviously not to experiencethat pain. I knew the pain, experiencing it
(44:57):
in all its fullness would strengthen me eventually.Don't tell me how I knew because I don't know.
I just knew that it would strengthen me andit would allow me to be the dad I wanted to
be. be the dad that Hazel would want me to be.Even now, just, you know, hearing me myself
(45:20):
say it out loud, it baffles me. It baffles me.I alluded to earlier, and this has been a recurring
theme recently. So whether it's for the benefitof this podcast or whether it's for something
else in the work that I'm doing, you know, there'sa saying that everything happens for a reason.
(45:46):
Everything doesn't happen for a reason. It'sjust not true at all. There can be no sensible
rhyme or reason why a whole host of things happenin the world. But how we process, how we're
able to process our mindset will in part dictatehow we deal with the various challenges that
(46:13):
life throw at us. And for whatever reason, youknow, my mindset, well, I say for whatever
reason, actually, I now know the reason it'sjust been hard to accept that. I've had to
go through what I've gone through in order forme to live out my life's purpose. There was
(46:41):
no right reason why Hazel died. but I'm ableto take the pain of that and other things that
I've been through and use that to help and empowerand sustain other people, other widows and
widows that I've spoken to over these years,other books that I've contributed to, podcasts
(47:04):
that I've been on, panels that I've spoken on,people that I've been introduced to on a one-to-one
basis. None of that makes me feel better, becausethere is no making it better. But what it does
do, it allows me to live life in the way thatI hadn't planned, but it seems that it's part
(47:35):
of my life's purpose. So to take my experiences,to take the mindset that I have, to take...
the level of resilience that I seem to naturallyhave to some extent and to use that to help
others now. I don't know why that is. I've questionedit, but there's so many things in my life that
(47:57):
point towards this is part of the work thatI should be doing. And so I have learned to
embrace that, not that I've been rejecting it,I just really wasn't aware of that's what I
was. that's part of my purpose. And I guessI probably hadn't looked at it in a purposeful
way as well, even though I'd been doing lotsof these things and have been doing lots of
(48:23):
these things from a young age, from really beingtrue to who I am. And so all of these things
have always been in me. I just didn't recognizethem as being a thing, if you like. And now
it's... it's abundantly clear that it's a thingfor real. Yeah, it's heavy. Heavy. But you
(48:52):
to still be as. Defiant. defines the word I'mgonna use. If this was plastered all over social
media, if this was in a sitcom, if this wasin a movie, the attitude, the common consensus
would be negative. I'm gonna lash out, I'm gonnado this, I'm gonna do that. But your attitude
(49:19):
is defined of that narrative. Absolutely. Andthat's part of your charm, that is part of.
thing that I admire you are such a wholesomeindividual as a whole but to still be that
encouraging to yourself to still be that kindin a sense that you said I've got to make this
(49:44):
work for me and the boys and be the parent thathazel wanted me to be or be a dad that hazel
want me to be and know that I'm not gonna geteverything right and when I stumble get up
and try and these are many people say at thebest of times, let alone at one of the darkest
and loneliest times in their life. And you'rejust built different is what it comes across
(50:11):
as. But I will ask you this question. Goingback in time, knowing now what you do, not
saying you're there, but I'd like to think youhave a better understanding of the situation.
I know you've alluded to previously. But whatwould you say to your younger self at your
lowest point to keep putting your foot in frontof the other, to get yourself out of that place?
(50:37):
If you need to, because you sound like you alreadyhad it quite ready. Like you sound like you've
got yourself all together, but I just want tooffer you the chance to answer that question
in case you wasn't always like that. Yeah, nobodyhas it all together. There isn't one individual
on this earth, no matter how accomplished orwhatever. that has it all together all the
(50:58):
time. They have their moments of having it alltogether, yes, but they don't have it all together
all the time. So then I'm working on it at theminute, and I'm trying to figure out the best
way to articulate it to some other wider public,but when you look at what those people do.
(51:21):
Well-being is at the center of their lives.Well-being is in that kind of afterthought.
It's not a, all right, I've burnt out becauseI've been going at a great next speed and all
the rest of it, so I'm gonna take two weeksout of recover and get back to it. No, well-being
and resilience is a daily thing. It's a dailything. You do it every single day. The end
(51:45):
of it, the start of the day, during the day,the end of the day, before you go to bed. Well-being,
spiritual, mental. physical, emotional, right?My resilience project, Resilience Cubed, is
why I've called it that, right? Empowering ourmind, body and spirit. And again, one day living
(52:06):
has caused us to forget about some really simplethings that we can do on a daily basis. And
so, every day for me is a reset. Every day isa reset. whatever happens during the day, the
end of the day, I reset. Okay, you know what,stuff happened, couldn't control it, whatever.
(52:30):
I reset. Did I get angry at the day for whateverreason? Okay, yeah, reset. Kind of acknowledge,
hear myself say it out loud, have some self-talk.Okay, probably should have done that better.
But you know what, okay, can't change it, it'sdone. Reset, start the day afresh. is fair
(52:51):
enough. So with the beauty of hindsight, doyou think there's anything you would tell your
younger self different to what you was alreadysaying to yourself at that time to keep yourself
going? Other than saying you've got this, that'sall it would be because the only thing that
(53:14):
has ever rented me from achieving anything.has been my own self doubt. If you had self-doubt,
what was it that you did to get yourself outof the way? It's different for every situation.
In some ways, part of that has been a maturitything. Part of that has been having been through
(53:38):
other things in the past. Looked at those things,like, OK, if I've got through that before,
then I can get through this. You know, HazelDines was one of those where I couldn't compare
it to anything. So that was just a pure, I justhave to find a way through this. There's no
(53:59):
option. I can't compare it and say, Oh, I'vebeen through X and it's been worse than that
because there's been nothing that has been worsethan that. So it was literally just a, well,
what am I going to do? Am I just going to giveup and give into it or I'm going to, like I
said before, pull one foot in front of the other,get through minute by minute, hour by hour.
(54:22):
over time.
know that leads to where I am right now. Ifyou're saying that wasn't ill, are you still
calling it ill now? Yeah, yeah.
back to the point about everything doesn't happenfor a reason. It was a loss, right? You know,
(54:48):
there's a, within the bereavement and grievingand widowed community, one of the viewpoints
on grief, when you lose someone, especiallyin these types of circumstances. where it was
sudden, it was unexpected, it was long beforeHazel hadn't lived a long life and got to a
(55:15):
certain age and all the rest of it. Where...The grief doesn't go away. Then there's a diagram
that you have where, you know, the first circle,there's two circles. The first one is, it's
a big circle, and it's black.
(55:38):
That circle represents your life, and the blackrepresents grief at the point in time that
it happens. So literally, your life is consumedby that. There's no space for anything. And
what they say is that, and this doesn't haveto be precise, you know, it's not completely
black and white, of course, because life isn'tlike that as far, life is far from black and
(56:01):
white. But what they say is that actually, whenit comes to grief, what happens is...
The grief or the size of the grief doesn't change.You just need to build a new life. So you build
yourself a new circle around the original one.And as you start to build that new circle,
(56:26):
that gets bigger and bigger, the grief staysthe same size, the bereavement, the hurt stays
the same size. But you learn to build a newlife around it. So as a percentage of how much
of your life that it consumes, it becomes smaller.all the time, but it's still there. So it's
still an L. It's just that I've built a newlife around it. And yes, there are moments
(56:54):
where it catches me. There are moments whereI intentionally embrace it and face it and
say, this is just shit, man. What the, right?But then I move on from it and say, hey, yep,
that was my moment to just kind of say, hey,what the hell's going on? And then I move on
from it and say, hey, you know what, a goodlife. And I've been practicing gratitude for
(57:19):
a long time. Again, I just didn't know it. I'vebeen practicing gratitude since such a young
age. I just, I didn't know it. And as I lookback over my life, I'm like, damn, I've been
doing that for, I just didn't appreciate that.That's what it was. Many people won't get this.
(57:43):
As tough as all of this has been, I'm alive.I'm alive. I've been here to raise my boys,
our boys. I've nursed them. supported them throughschool, their education, all the bad moments,
(58:05):
all the tempers, terrible tunes, all of thatstuff. My eldest now is a teenager and all
of that stuff that people talk about is teenageyears and all the rest. I get to experience
all of that in its full glory. And Hazel hasn'tbeen able to. She wasn't even able to hold
(58:28):
or see Isaac. So every single day, I am grateful.Even on the days where the boys are no the
hell out of me, and I feel like, you know, givingthem away or whatever, because they're just
kind of being young kids of a certain age andtheir behaviors and all the rest of it. I am
(58:50):
grateful. And I say that I'm grateful everysingle day, because I get to experience all
of this. And the haze of the temple, and thereare many people. past, young and old, young,
and not being able to see whatever in life thatwe would have expected them to see. And so,
(59:15):
as much as that might be a difficult thing forpeople to get their head around, for me, it
has been one of the driving forces throughoutmy life. I've, for some reason, I've always
been able to say, no matter what. crap I'vebeen through. It could have been different.
(59:37):
It could have been a worse situation. This couldhave happened. There are others that have been
through something even worse than me, comparativelyspeaking. So actually, I'm just gonna get on
and do what I need to do.
incredible. Conscious of time. I appreciatenot every L is a loss, but at the same time
(01:00:05):
an L can just feel like an L because it is anL. I love the fact that you're still able to
gain something from this experience and helpit fuel the version of yourself that you believe
is yourself and you carry your wife with you.in every interaction I've had with you, I feel
(01:00:26):
like I learn more and more about this amazinghuman being and I know she lives on in you,
in your boys and everyone else that knew her.Absolutely. I will ask you this before I conclude.
For the next two minutes, can you share whereyou're going to be, how people can find you?
(01:00:49):
on social media, obviously, I don't want realstalkers kind of come after you. And I want
to give you a hug, this story, right? But ifyou could just share where you're at socially
on social media, where you are in terms of whatyou're doing that people can consume if they
want to learn more about yourself. Yeah, twominutes selfishly plug yourself, my friend.
(01:01:10):
Yeah. So I'm LinkedIn and Instagram is justAlec. My website is the same, alecengrant.com.
I have a related one, but you can connect toit from that. I've got a newsletter, so between
(01:01:33):
putting stuff out on LinkedIn, I'm on LinkedInand Insta the most, always putting out content
around wellbeing, mindset, self-mastery, daily.well-being habits, daily resilient habits.
If you go to my website, you can sign up formy newsletter. You know, it's not supposed
to be over complicated or whatever, it's justreally simple. I share, you know, books, podcasts,
(01:01:59):
insights, things that I've read, experiences,my viewpoint on, you know, topical things around
just trying to, you know, build a lifestyle,build a mindset, build self mastery. So...
Yeah, feel free to connect with me. Yeah, anyof those platforms. Amazing. Thank you very
(01:02:23):
much. Obviously want to thank you so much foryour honesty, just being vulnerable as you
are and this conversation is very, very difficultfor me because I know it's a very sensitive
topic. I know I've heard some of this stuffbefore but there was more that I kind of wanted
(01:02:47):
to understand your psyche around and sometimesit's easy to shy away from someone when you
respect them and you're that close to them,but you want to know so you avoid asking the
question because it's easier and that's kindof like why I like this platform because when
you ask someone questions that are slightlymore How did you feel? What made you feel that
(01:03:14):
way? How did you react? If you're talking toa loved one face to face or virtually however
it is, chances are your answers will differdepending on what faces they're pulling, how
they react to what you're saying. Me askingthose questions, knowing how I feel about you
and our bond that we've got made it very hardfor me to want to ask those questions and be
(01:03:38):
respectful of those. those feelings you havebecause I am not going to act like once this
recording stops life will resume as it was leftoff. You've gone through those memories, you've
relived those memories for the sake of me andanyone else that listened to this episode and
(01:04:03):
I want to thank you. I hope that you're notin a bad place because of it. but able to celebrate
her life. Cause I, trust me, I feel so gratefulthat you two found each other and was able
to have the life that you had together. Andthis is a life that you have minus her in flesh
(01:04:28):
but she's definitely here in spirit and in theDNA of the boys. And I'm sure you can see the
manner is pouring out through them as well.And I just want to sort of acknowledge that
I'm not taking this for granted in any way,shape or form. I just, I don't know, I told
you, this is amazing. I know you're just doingyou and I'm not trying to gas you up so that
(01:04:51):
you feel that you have to act any which way.You being you and accepting yourself for the
way you are is so empowering to others. AndI say that because I am one of those people
and I thank you for it. I'm sorry for what you'vehad to experience, but I'm so grateful that
(01:05:12):
you are grateful and that you allow these situationsto further fuel and to pay it forward for other
people. I'm so grateful to charities that wereable to support and to help you through a very
challenging time. I thank all your family andfriends and those people around you that are
(01:05:33):
willing to contribute towards helping make avery very difficult situation, a little bit
more bearable, because no matter how much effortpeople can pour into your situation, when you've
gone through something like that, I can onlyimagine, that's like trying to put a plaster
on a dam, one of the dams missing a big oldhole out of it. You've just got a whole wave
(01:05:56):
of emotions pouring out and you're thinking,that plaster's not really doing much of anything,
but it's the thought that counts. And you, I,I feel like I'm saying things that anyone listening
will probably understand what I'm trying tosay, but just lacking in the vocabulary to
be able to do so. However, I have to wrap thisup, but I wanna just stress how happy I am
(01:06:18):
for you, so happy for our friendship, so happyfor everything you have. And I understand that
we've only scratched the surface and there'sso many more challenges and so many ongoing
struggles that you have to overcome. But I,yeah, people just reach out to him. He'll share
what he feels comfortable to share. and he'sa great guy to know. Even though he's gone
(01:06:40):
through something like this and this loss isa loss, he still understood and discovered
that the grief will always remain. And that'ssomething to hold onto. But his life is bigger,
in part because of the family that they weregrowing together. I like to believe that a
(01:07:00):
person is having a family when they've got oneother person. that they're with. I don't like
the whole waiting until you've got a child beforeyou have a family because not everyone can
have a child or will have a child. So you area family unit once you two are together and
committed to one another and then it just expandsfurther and further. And if it wasn't for her
(01:07:21):
in his life, he may not be the person he istoday. He wouldn't have the beautiful boys
he has who are super like amazingly good kidsbut you can understand why they are because
of his dad and because of his mum, their mumsorry. But I'm gonna have to wrap this up I
can't I can't keep going on I can't keep goingon. But everyone I hope you've enjoyed this
(01:07:44):
episode as much as I have and yeah just understandnot every hour is a loss and even if it is
a loss doesn't mean that's the place you'regonna reside in forever in terms of your feelings.
It can feel sometimes you don't want to acceptthe reality. I hold my hands up. My nan passed
away a number of years ago. I've still got ahouse number in my phone. I'm not willing to
(01:08:07):
pass that yet. But it doesn't mean I haven'tcontinued my life in other aspects. So it's
okay to feel what you're feeling. It's actuallyadvised to feel what you're feeling so you
can understand when you're not in a good placeversus a good, a good place. But try not to
dwell on it for too long because there may beso many other beautiful wonderful things you're
(01:08:27):
missing out on And just all about trying tolive full and die empty Please, please, please
look after yourself Experience what you canexperience and just remember there's nothing
about a caterpillar until it's gonna be a butterflyLook after yourself and I will catch you in
the next episode
(01:09:03):
Real.
I remember my doctor called me up, a GP at thetime, within a couple of days, and he offered
donances and said, if I need anything, I shouldlet him know. So didn't see me in person, didn't
assess my mental health or anything like that,but was offering me medication. So I politely
(00:22):
refused, said no, I'll fulfill that I need to,then maybe, but no. And I never did. And this
is no judgment on anybody because we all dealwith things, we all process things, we all
work differently. But again, for me, I had tosit in it. I had to feel the rawness of it.
(00:46):
I didn't want to numb it. I didn't want to blankit out. This was the life. This was the hand
that has been dealt to me.
(01:07):
Welcome ladies and gentlemen, I'm your host,Mack Brown and you're listening to the Every
L Podcast. Each episode we'll have a differentguest come on and talk about when life hangs
you in L, is it really a loss or is it somethingelse? Because not every L's a loss. So sit
back, relax and do what every guy do to getcomfortable as we get into this. Let's go!
(01:39):
Welcome everyone to another episode of EveryHell Podcast. For each episode, we have a different
guest. Come on and talk about experiences they'vegone through, how it seemed at the time, what
they went through, mentally, physically, emotionally,sometimes even financially. And just explore
the rollercoaster of emotions, the rollercoasterof circumstances, who was still in their life,
(01:59):
who left their life in terms of support. Andin hindsight, was it an L or was it something
else? Because we all... can look from the outside,looking at various people's lives and think
that they are where they should be, that they'rean amazing individual. And we have no idea
what they've been through, how, what they'vehad to overcome to be the version of themselves
(02:21):
they are today. And I'm so grateful for thevarious guests that have come on and share
these stories. And this guest, cliche as itmay sound, because every episode so far I've
said this, I've got a fantastic guest. Thisperson is a fantastic guest. However, I do
know their story that they're gonna talk about.I don't know every component to this story,
but this person, I can honestly tell you, hasshaped a lot of the way I think, how I approach
(02:46):
certain situations, and I've just got so muchlove and affection for this person. This person
I've known for maybe three years now, and he'sjust an incredible human being. Forget the
fact he's a father, forget the fact that heis just an amazing intellectual human being.
(03:09):
Him as a pure soul, as a pure entity, he isone of those people that is just shaping this
world to be a better place. He just gives thatso much. He may not even know it. The way I
talk so highly of him when he's never aroundme is just, yeah. He's had a big impact on
me and I just love him for who he is, for howhe is. I'm telling you, when you meet people
(03:34):
that just do stuff to you that just... liftyou up to give you encouragement, give you
strength to help you positively change how youthink, give them flowers because it's lonely
sometimes, but not everyone's willing to acceptthese truths or to be exposed to this lie.
And my guests, Alec, I love you. I love youfor what you do, love you for what you stand
(03:54):
for, and I just love how you challenge me ona regular basis. And it's not even, I know
you don't do it in a malicious way, it's justyou growing. and I'm then incentivized to grow
as well. So much appreciated to you. So happyto have you as a guest. Guys, girls, how have
you identified this guy? Amazing. Not sayinganyone else is not amazing because that's not
(04:15):
the case, but we all got our own version ofamazing and this guy does it for me. Before
we go and talk about his L that he's gonna discuss,I'm gonna ask him to introduce himself before
we go into his first L. Alec, how are you doing,my friend? I'm good, man. I was just sat here
thinking, who's he talking about? Is there someother guest that you're bringing on? Because
(04:37):
I don't know who this person is. So I wouldhave swapped you out.
Man, that's a lot to live up to, man. That'sa lot to live up to. But I appreciate the love.
It's definitely reciprocal. Yeah, I am Alec.I am 50. I'm a. solo dad to two boys with 13
(05:06):
and 10. You know, come from a technology backgroundin the corporate world. And these days, yeah,
I'm living life at a different pace, intentionallychosen to do so. Part of that was forced, but
yeah, the rest of it, certainly since the lockdownsand the pandemic. Not that I wasn't living
(05:33):
the purposeful life before, but the purposewas more of
an add-on thing that I did. And what has happenednow is the purpose has become what I do, so
my purpose, my values, core principles, ethics,morals aren't just something that I do when
(05:58):
I can fit it into my schedule. Yeah. that hasbecome everything. Everything has become that
almost. And that might sound a bit cryptic becauseI'm still figuring it out myself. But yeah,
that's where I'm at. I'm enjoying what I doin terms of my calling. And when I look back
(06:28):
throughout the things that I've been through.Not that everything happens for a reason, but
I can see how so many things in my life havecontributed to the work that I do now to help
and empower others, both from a mindset perspective,from wellbeing, resilience, and self mastery.
(06:51):
And that just sits in the sweet spot of howI live my life and how I try to show up. every
day, not in terms of having to put on an actor pretend to be something that I'm not. This
is just who I am. So, you know, your point aroundchallenging you. Yeah, it's never from a point
(07:16):
of criticism or anything for everyone. It'salways from a point of love. I'm wanting everyone
to be the best that they can be, whatever thatis, whatever their heart's desires are. And
that's it. I think you mentioned before aboutliving up to it. It's the life you're living.
(07:36):
It's the fact that you're, you're living ata different pace. You're in it, but you're,
it feels like you're in it, but you're not ofit. You know, through situations, I'm going
to assume you've had to reevaluate a lot ofwhat you do and why you do it. And I feel that's
healthy. It's at least for me to always questionand challenge and try to understand. why am
(08:01):
I doing this? Why am I doing it this way ifnothing else? And that's one of the things
I just appreciate. You know, there is that sayingabout iron sharpens iron and I feel it very
much does. And certain people around you willenable you to carry bad behavior and just perpetuate
what's gone before. And other people will notsay in a malicious way, will say it with love
and just sort of plant the seed of why are youdoing this? And it's no harm doing it, but
(08:24):
the way you're doing it, is that the right wayfor you and your dynamic? And- you being who
you are and still figuring it out, which iskey for me because I don't think anyone's gonna
land at the place that they deserve to be atall times. It's always shifting, changing,
growing, evolving. And that's what you're mindfulof. And I just resonate with that. So listeners,
(08:44):
definitely you're in for a treat. Actually,when I say listeners, forget you guys. It's
all about me. I'm gonna enjoy this conversation.
So for this episode, For this episode, Alecwould like to talk about becoming a widower.
Now this, I have heard this story a few times,just because it's close to my heart. And I'm
(09:12):
very mindful. Like I said before, I don't knowevery component involved in this. I never will.
But I love the fact that Alec is willing toraise awareness around things like this, because...
These are things that you don't always hearabout and it can be a very sore subject for
people to bring up, talk about and relive ina lot of instances. But yeah, Alec, if you
(09:34):
don't mind going back to where you feel it'srelevant to start and just take me through
that L of becoming a widower for you. Yeah.
So, as I said, I've got a 13-year-old and a10-year-old, and the long and short of it is
(09:57):
back in 2012. I quit corporate world. It wasalways part of the master plan. My eldest was
a few months shy of two at the time, and mywife and I were... expecting our second child
(10:23):
in March 2013. And so quitting the corporateworld at the end of November 2012 was part
of our plan to say, hey, live life differently,live it at a different pace. Trekking up into
London on the daily, it was just not sustainable.And the plan was always before my oldest kids
(10:46):
to the age of three, I'd have stopped. doingthat, leaving the house after seven, not getting
back until after seven, the commute, trekkingup into London, getting into Waterloo, Fort
Lewin City Line, and then everyone likes sardinesand it can. And people did that and still are
(11:08):
doing that for their careers, but it was notwhat I wanted, it was not what we wanted. So
for all intents and purposes, that was the firststep towards the new life that we were building
together for our family. And it was a greatfeeling to know that, one, I'd get to spend
(11:35):
a lot more time with my eldest son, but therewould be no getting paternity leave for however
many weeks it was gonna be the birth of my.second child and then having to go back into
work and then going through all of that. Itwas great and start up a new business venture,
we've jointly done that. So yeah, but you know,fate had other plans.
(12:06):
We get to March of 2013.
Day after the due date, my wife starts experiencingsome pain, so we go to hospital. Didn't think
(12:27):
anything was wrong at all. It was a slightlydifferent process compared to the birth of
my eldest, but nothing that... that caused usany concern.
(12:49):
We've gone to the hospital in the morning, afternine o'clock or 10 o'clock, and we ended up
being there all day, seven o'clock in the evening.My wife gives birth to our second son, but
after giving birth and coming back on the ward,she's not feeling great, so she gets rushed
(13:16):
back in to... theater, she was rushed into theater.Yeah, five hours later she passed away.
So there I am, a newborn baby, literally a newborn,and a three-year-old thinking, what the hell
(13:43):
has just happened? It wasn't supposed to belike this. Why me? Why us? How am I going to
do this? Is it fair? What the hell did we doto deserve this?
Yeah, whole load of darkness at a time thatwas supposed to be joy, a time that was supposed
(14:10):
to be a celebration, a time that was supposedto be another step forward in this new life
that we were creating for ourselves just gotconsumed by this dark cloud.
But you know, here I am, 10 years later, andI've been able to build a new life for myself
(14:38):
and for my boys.
And as much as the pain of losing Hazel willnever go away because she's still an absolute
significant part of our lives, she might notbe here in physical presence, but... spiritually,
(14:59):
she's here with us, she lives on in both ourboys. And pretty much every day, you know,
I tell her that I miss her, and I hear a voicein my head, not in that way. Just, you know,
recounting some of her mannerisms and yeah,recently, I went away and spent some time.
(15:27):
some family and in some of.
in part of the time that I was there, two songscame to me and these are songs that I know
well and like a good few people of a certaingeneration will do as well. And there were
(15:49):
two Michael Jackson songs and the first onewas You Are Not Alone and that song has always
meant a lot to me anyway.
Yeah, so I've been playing that a lot recently.And the second song was Man in the Mirror.
(16:15):
And for where I am right now, it's very fittingthat those two songs have just come to me in
a...
are hitting something that
I need to hear for different reasons. You know,needing to hear those two things. Yeah, I will
(16:45):
always feel that Hazel is with us and that we'llnever be alone. And then in terms of, you know,
my purpose, my calling. being the change thatI want to see in the world, man in the mirror
is also very fitting.
(17:11):
Yeah. Question, when you got to the March time,a day past the due date, the pregnancy itself
as a whole, as far as you're concerned, nothingsinister, nothing that was telling that things
potentially were gonna go that way. No, nothingat all. So.
(17:38):
you go to the hospital. Yeah. Where was yourson, your eldest? So my wife's parents, they
had they, they were living a couple of monthsdown the road. So they came to the house to
look after him while I took Hazel to the hospital.So in laws come over. Yeah, we'll look after
(18:01):
little man. See you guys in a few hours lookingforward to meeting little man. part two, his
brother, however you want to describe him, goingthere, happy, you know, these are good times,
you know, we've been waiting for this, we'vebeen counting the days down because we now
got to the safety point where at this junction.Yep. I know, and this is in no comparison to
(18:25):
yourself, but I think there might be some sortof feelings. When I watched my wife try to
give birth because she ended up doing a C-sectioneventually for our firstborn. I remember as
twins because it was easier to do with the twins,the twins firstborn. But I couldn't help but
see the exhaustion in my wife's face, how tiredshe got. She even turned blue when she was
(18:48):
under the knife getting the C-section done.And I was thinking, I've done this to her and
it wasn't a solo effort, obviously. It was ajoint venture that we'd done this. But I'm
thinking how I felt fearful in that moment.Did you feel that way when you had your first
born? Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Because...
(19:14):
Our eldest was born in a revised C-section.I was able, I can't remember the category,
but whatever the category of C-section, I wasallowed into the theater. So, you know, I'd
gowled up and, you know, I was with her talkingto her and the medical staff were doing their
(19:35):
thing at the business end. And yeah, so frombeing with her. through the labour and then
our eldest, his heart rate had dropped, so theysaid, hey, we need to do a C-section. But,
you know, went into theatre, he was born, stayedin a couple of nights just to monitor, but
(20:06):
we were back home and getting on with beingnew parents. So... this time round, the second
time round, but they'd said, oh yeah, you know,we need to do a C-section. So again, you know,
I didn't really think anything was wrong. Andeven when they said, actually, no, you can't
(20:28):
come in this time, okay, you know, again, yeah,I just didn't think anything of it, or at least,
you know, the medical team didn't give me anyreason to think. but I guess, well not I guess,
the differences. So there's a condition calledamniotic fluid embolism, AFE, and it's an extremely
(20:55):
rare condition that can occur during childbirthand during C-sections, where for whatever reason,
(21:16):
the mother's body reacts, has an allergic reactionto the amniotic fluid, causes a cardiac arrest,
lungs, heart, whatever, and that's what happened.So, very few medical...
(21:40):
who are working in the maternity will ever seesomething like that because it's that rave
globally. Doctors in the medical world don'tknow why it happens. They understand symptoms
that manifest, and they understand some of thecontext from the data that they've gathered.
(22:09):
but they still don't know, because obviouslyamniotic fluid gets into the mother's bloodstream,
because it's just part of the process. But whyit causes an allergic reaction is still unknown.
And in most cases, it's fatal. Some women survive,but in most cases, it's fatal.
(22:35):
it's hard and I'm glad that you can relate tothis and not just me on my own and that situation
that guy oh my gosh like what's happened hereyeah but even when it was that four shit I
was allowed in there for the second and thirdwhen it came to it yeah so again was I stressed
as much as I was the first time no because Iguess after the first time you kind of go like
came I've seen it once already yeah you knowsecond time if I'm there I'm there if I'm not
(22:59):
at least I'm in the vicinity
baby was born. Was you then allowed in thereor? So little one went into the NICU because
they needed to give Hazel some antibiotics justto allow for little one and group B strep.
(23:26):
And so yeah, he'd gone into the NICU but yeah,apart from recovering. After she recovered,
Hazel was just out into the maternity ward.I went round to see her and we were talking
for a bit of time. It was only when they startedto run some tests and then she started complaining
(23:55):
for a few things that it became clear that somethingwasn't right.
So, Yungisyn Niku, your bedside with MartinHazel. And as far as you're concerned, she's
in some discomfort, but for the most part, tobe a you, no professional has told you things
(24:22):
are potentially in a really bad way. So she'dmade these complaints. They have then taken
her away after they realized things are escalating.Has anyone communicated to you in any way,
shape or form at this point that things couldbe going a certain direction? No, no, it was
(24:44):
only really after she was in theatre for a coupleof hours, when I was like, you know, something's
not right, and the consultant came out and providedan update, but it was, yeah, it was clear things
weren't really going. But to what extent thatwasn't clear. What was you going through at
(25:12):
that point mentally? Because was you able tosee your youngest? Yes. So, yeah, at some point
during that, yeah, they had said, you know,do you want to come through to the NICU to
see him? I couldn't pick him up or hold himbecause he was in, you know, one of those unit
things. The incubator. Incubator, that's theword I was looking for. Yeah, he was one of
those. But yeah, I was able to see him. seeinghim in the incubator, not the nicest place
(25:38):
cause my youngest was in the incubator for severaldays but must've been a joy to be able to see
him to be able to just bask in that presenceof a newborn baby and kind of, kind of take
your mind off the fact that your wife's notin the ward like she was prior to that. Yeah.
(26:00):
Like where was your head? Because when my youngestwas a Niku, I had every bit of hope that things
would work out because I wanted to believe thingswould work out. But I could not be naive to
the fact that there's a chance it won't be allright because you wouldn't be in here if they
(26:24):
didn't think there was a possibility. How didyou feel staring at your newborn? not knowing
the full extent of what's going on in the theatrewith your wife, with how many doctors and nurses,
what was going through your mind and how didyou think things were going to look going forward
(26:49):
in your life versus what you had planned. Yeah,it's hard to recall exactly how I felt. But
it was definitely mixed, of course. But I hadto believe that she was going to be OK, because
that's what we'd planned. I had to believe thatshe was going to be coming out. Clearly it
(27:14):
wasn't going to be that night. Or, well, wewere well into the early hours of the following
day by then. But, um. eldest and he was expectingme to bring Mummy home and his younger sibling.
So that's sitting there, just looking, thinking,hoping, everything's gonna be all right. When
(27:42):
is it that you find out things are the startof a new life for you? Yeah, the consultant
came out the theater and he didn't need to sayanything, just saw it on his face. I just didn't
want to hear it. Just didn't want to hear it.
(28:09):
But yeah.
Yeah, gave me the bad news.
No words to explain.
hearing that my words can never explain, thatmoment will stay with me forever.
(28:51):
what was your reaction? I assume there is noright reaction if you understand where I'm
coming from but I can only imagine just thisis wrong, this is a lie. This isn't, no. Exactly,
I remember saying, no, can't be right.
(29:18):
That's as much as I remember in that moment.As far as you can remember, when did you suddenly
realize that now that has been confirmed toyou, when did your mind start thinking about
your family? And I asked the question becauseit was, and I'm trying to not keep it to myself,
(29:42):
I'm trying to show the connection for whereI'm coming from. Sure. When I found out I was
having twins. I thought I was going into thefear going for the sonography appointment,
the baby healthy, yay or nay, there's one inthere calm, we'll pick we'll choose between
a boy and a girl's name, we'll discover thesex later on. Carry on. When it was twins,
(30:02):
you think I was thinking about any of that stuffanymore. My head was somewhere else because
that was a shock to my system. I was tryingto process the new the new information that
has been conveyed to me. So I can only imagineif you've just been taken to a private area,
(30:23):
you're hoping the words that are going to comeout of his mouth are not the words that are
going to come out his mouth. It's hit you. You'restill processing it as it's being said to you.
And then you at some point I'm assuming youhad a sense of, what am I gonna do with my
(30:45):
newborn? What am I gonna tell my other son?What am I gonna say to her parents? How am
I going to, you know where I'm going with this.When did that become a concern? I don't know.
(31:07):
I don't know when it became because I just thinkit was shot. Shakovich was just... Yeah, he
was just numbing. He was just numbing, and Iknow in the passage of time...
at some point and those thoughts came to me.But in that immediate aftermath, yeah, it was
(31:37):
just too numbing to even think beyond what thehell has just happened. How long after you
got that news, was you able to take your youngesthome? Yeah, two days. So, we'd gone in on a
Monday morning. I brought him home by the Wednesdayafternoon. Did you have anyone around you that
(32:01):
was comforting you or you confided in him? Yeah,yeah. Family and friends rallied around. I
had a lot of support, a lot of support to getme through. It was, you know, first few hours,
days, literally people turned up on my doorstepwhatever way they could. How was it explaining
(32:29):
the news to your eldest? He was three, so hedidn't understand.
At the best, kids don't have any full appreciationof the concept of death until closer to the
age seven, depending on their level of maturity.So as much as I explained it to him, he didn't
(32:59):
understand. He was still expecting mommy tocome back home and took. upteen times of saying
the same thing. There's a number of bereavementcharities out there that are specifically there
to help bereaved children. And so I was ableto be in contact with them and got a lot of
(33:22):
help and support from them. And for a good fewyears afterwards actually. And they were able
to help me navigate trying to... to help himunderstand and come to terms with it once he
was of an age where he could fully understand.And not only that, you know, the support they
(33:43):
provided with my youngest as well, because hesuffered a bereavement too and from a mum that
he never ever met, never knew. So yeah, youknow, they've provided lots of support to me
and to them to help us all through this. Andwhat charity was that? there's two, so Winston's
(34:05):
Wish was one and Child Bereavement UK, amazingcharities. And did they help you through the
grieving process and as well as the more practicalside of dealing with your newborn and your
eldest? Yeah, their focus was specifically onchildren, so providing material and explanations
(34:30):
of how children grieve. and what you can dois to support them and tools and practices
and also things like how can you help othershelp you better service material on you can
give to friends and family to say hey this ishow you can help me so that was yeah that was
(34:55):
really useful as well actually. Did you dealwith any of this in a negative way or out of
character and if so how did you deal with it?I don't know, maybe you should ask my friends,
family, in terms of whether it was out of character,because you can't help, but you're not yourself
(35:17):
when you've been through something like thisanyway. But also, fun for me, that overriding
thought in the early days was...
I can't do anything about it right now, butI know I have to be the best that I can be
(35:41):
because I'm a solo parent with two boys. Andif I don't get the help and support, mentally,
emotionally, and spiritually, then I'm not gonnabe able to be the best dad that I can be for
them. I'm not gonna be able to. be the dad thatHazel would have wanted me to be for them.
(36:07):
So while they were in those immediate aftermath,weeks, months, first few years, so much felt
out of my control because I felt that I wasalways playing catch up, always behind. I knew
that I had to get professional help. I feltthat I needed to. being the company of other
(36:35):
widowers in a similar situation and I joinedmembership of a charity called Widowed and
Young, another amazing charity that supportspeople who have been widowed, people who have
been widowed under the age of 50. There wasanother charity... I can't remember, it was
(36:56):
part of a bigger charity, but they had a division,if you like, called Widow and Young Support
Group, and they actually had a weekend retreatfor widows and widowers, and I went to that,
when was that, in the, probably six months,within six months, I saw a therapist, within
(37:18):
a few weeks, and had a good few sessions. Iwent to a peer support group for, for Widowers.
So I was doing everything that I could to tryand give me as best a fighting chance as possible.
(37:38):
Stay sane, you know, to not lose the plot. Because,yeah, it was really clear to me that, or I
felt that's what I needed to do. If, yeah, itwas, yeah, it was significantly important for
me to stay the same. Not that I was expectingto be all of a sudden just have recovered and
(38:01):
be brilliant, but I knew that I couldn't just,don't know what the right word is, because
it's, sit in it and let it eat away at me andjust over the passage of time for it to be,
for it to define who I was, for it to definethe lives that... myself and my boys would
(38:24):
have. I just knew crystal clear that wasn'tan option for us. Was there any part of you
that was prideful that was, nah, I'm not gonnaask for help. I don't need help. I can do this
myself. No, no. You know, it was again, it wasreally clear that there was no way I was going
(38:47):
to get through this without help and support.There's just no way. was too big. It's too
big. And as much as close friends and familyhave always seen me as someone that was independent
and maybe previously might have not offeredhelp in different scenarios, they all knew
(39:11):
that actually, yeah, well, at least some ofthem knew and took it upon themselves to say,
hey, yeah, we've got you. We've got you. Wheredid you get this sense of? resilience, because
I would like to, no, I don't want to say I like,that's a lie. I have heard through multiple
(39:36):
conversations I've had, where some people haveconsidered throwing in the towel at other life
events. Yeah. Never once in any, any conversationsI've heard you when you share these stories,
have I ever. ever heard you talk about friendhotel it's like it is off the table that is
(39:59):
not an option never
I don't know, man. It's just not how I'm wired.You know, it's just not how I'm wired. And,
you know, is it genetic? Is it something else?I don't know. Like I said, within the first
(40:25):
few days, it was clear that I don't know howI'm gonna do this, but I had to do this. And
you couldn't do it on my own, friends and familythere to support. Yes, I couldn't see the wood
for the trees. But the driving force was theboys need me, the boys need me. Hazel would
(40:48):
want me to do the best that I can, not be perfect,not get everything right, because that's what
life is about. But as long as I was continuallytrying to do my best, and I would stumble,
and as long as I would get up, stumble, getup, stumble, get up. You know, at one point...
(41:10):
It was just about getting through every hour.How long is this gonna last for, really? Because
this is painful, just trying to get throughevery hour. But over time, it became, oh, get
through a couple of hours. I mean, I didn'tsleep for seven months. I just caught a little
(41:35):
bit of shut-eye here and there for seven months.So I just couldn't sleep in our bed. slept
on the sofa, did my back in. You know, I hadthe Moses basket next to me so I could do his
feeding, the little one. And you know, newbornbaby, there's so much to do. There's so much
(41:58):
to focus on. So a good part of the focus wenton him and my eldest being there for them,
supporting them. So some of it, it made partof the day's have a routine because, you know.
get up, feed. Alice needs to go to nursery,clothes sorted out, got some activity, little
(42:21):
one needs feeding every four hours, bottlesmade up, et cetera. So in some ways, I guess
that probably helped because then I wasn't ableto just sit around. In fact, although I had
help and support at times, and I needed thatbreak, I needed. to sometimes just have some
(42:43):
nights to myself, which people came over andlooked after one for me, but I still didn't
sleep, couldn't sleep. But in some ways, lookingback at it now, I know I needed that time,
because I needed space and time for myself,but in some ways... That made having to sit
(43:08):
in it and have nothing to do. And so experiencethe rawness, the reality of it was hard, but
again, that ended up being part of the journeythat I needed to experience and I needed to
sit in it.
(43:42):
I remember my doctor called me up, a GP at thetime, within a couple of days, and he offered
donancies and said, you know, if I need anything,I should let him know. So didn't see him in
person, didn't assess my mental health or anythinglike that, but was offered me medication. So
(44:07):
I politely refused, said, no, I'll fulfill thatI need to. then maybe, but no, and I never
did. This is no judgment on anybody becausewe all deal with things, we all process things,
we all work differently. But again, for me,I had to sit in it. I had to feel the rawness
(44:31):
of it. I didn't want to numb it. I didn't wantto blank it out. This was the life. This was
the hand that has been dealt to me, numbingthe pain. as much as it was awful. And I wouldn't
want to, I would prefer obviously not to experiencethat pain. I knew the pain, experiencing it
(44:57):
in all its fullness would strengthen me eventually.Don't tell me how I knew because I don't know.
I just knew that it would strengthen me andit would allow me to be the dad I wanted to
be. be the dad that Hazel would want me to be.Even now, just, you know, hearing me myself
(45:20):
say it out loud, it baffles me. It baffles me.I alluded to earlier, and this has been a recurring
theme recently. So whether it's for the benefitof this podcast or whether it's for something
else in the work that I'm doing, you know, there'sa saying that everything happens for a reason.
(45:46):
Everything doesn't happen for a reason. It'sjust not true at all. There can be no sensible
rhyme or reason why a whole host of things happenin the world. But how we process, how we're
able to process our mindset will in part dictatehow we deal with the various challenges that
(46:13):
life throw at us. And for whatever reason, youknow, my mindset, well, I say for whatever
reason, actually, I now know the reason it'sjust been hard to accept that. I've had to
go through what I've gone through in order forme to live out my life's purpose. There was
(46:41):
no right reason why Hazel died. but I'm ableto take the pain of that and other things that
I've been through and use that to help and empowerand sustain other people, other widows and
widows that I've spoken to over these years,other books that I've contributed to, podcasts
(47:04):
that I've been on, panels that I've spoken on,people that I've been introduced to on a one-to-one
basis. None of that makes me feel better, becausethere is no making it better. But what it does
do, it allows me to live life in the way thatI hadn't planned, but it seems that it's part
(47:35):
of my life's purpose. So to take my experiences,to take the mindset that I have, to take...
the level of resilience that I seem to naturallyhave to some extent and to use that to help
others now. I don't know why that is. I've questionedit, but there's so many things in my life that
(47:57):
point towards this is part of the work thatI should be doing. And so I have learned to
embrace that, not that I've been rejecting it,I just really wasn't aware of that's what I
was. that's part of my purpose. And I guessI probably hadn't looked at it in a purposeful
way as well, even though I'd been doing lotsof these things and have been doing lots of
(48:23):
these things from a young age, from really beingtrue to who I am. And so all of these things
have always been in me. I just didn't recognizethem as being a thing, if you like. And now
it's... it's abundantly clear that it's a thingfor real. Yeah, it's heavy. Heavy. But you
(48:52):
to still be as. Defiant. defines the word I'mgonna use. If this was plastered all over social
media, if this was in a sitcom, if this wasin a movie, the attitude, the common consensus
would be negative. I'm gonna lash out, I'm gonnado this, I'm gonna do that. But your attitude
(49:19):
is defined of that narrative. Absolutely. Andthat's part of your charm, that is part of.
thing that I admire you are such a wholesomeindividual as a whole but to still be that
encouraging to yourself to still be that kindin a sense that you said I've got to make this
(49:44):
work for me and the boys and be the parent thathazel wanted me to be or be a dad that hazel
want me to be and know that I'm not gonna geteverything right and when I stumble get up
and try and these are many people say at thebest of times, let alone at one of the darkest
and loneliest times in their life. And you'rejust built different is what it comes across
(50:11):
as. But I will ask you this question. Goingback in time, knowing now what you do, not
saying you're there, but I'd like to think youhave a better understanding of the situation.
I know you've alluded to previously. But whatwould you say to your younger self at your
lowest point to keep putting your foot in frontof the other, to get yourself out of that place?
(50:37):
If you need to, because you sound like you alreadyhad it quite ready. Like you sound like you've
got yourself all together, but I just want tooffer you the chance to answer that question
in case you wasn't always like that. Yeah, nobodyhas it all together. There isn't one individual
on this earth, no matter how accomplished orwhatever. that has it all together all the
(50:58):
time. They have their moments of having it alltogether, yes, but they don't have it all together
all the time. So then I'm working on it at theminute, and I'm trying to figure out the best
way to articulate it to some other wider public,but when you look at what those people do.
(51:21):
Well-being is at the center of their lives.Well-being is in that kind of afterthought.
It's not a, all right, I've burnt out becauseI've been going at a great next speed and all
the rest of it, so I'm gonna take two weeksout of recover and get back to it. No, well-being
and resilience is a daily thing. It's a dailything. You do it every single day. The end
(51:45):
of it, the start of the day, during the day,the end of the day, before you go to bed. Well-being,
spiritual, mental. physical, emotional, right?My resilience project, Resilience Cubed, is
why I've called it that, right? Empowering ourmind, body and spirit. And again, one day living
(52:06):
has caused us to forget about some really simplethings that we can do on a daily basis. And
so, every day for me is a reset. Every day isa reset. whatever happens during the day, the
end of the day, I reset. Okay, you know what,stuff happened, couldn't control it, whatever.
(52:30):
I reset. Did I get angry at the day for whateverreason? Okay, yeah, reset. Kind of acknowledge,
hear myself say it out loud, have some self-talk.Okay, probably should have done that better.
But you know what, okay, can't change it, it'sdone. Reset, start the day afresh. is fair
(52:51):
enough. So with the beauty of hindsight, doyou think there's anything you would tell your
younger self different to what you was alreadysaying to yourself at that time to keep yourself
going? Other than saying you've got this, that'sall it would be because the only thing that
(53:14):
has ever rented me from achieving anything.has been my own self doubt. If you had self-doubt,
what was it that you did to get yourself outof the way? It's different for every situation.
In some ways, part of that has been a maturitything. Part of that has been having been through
(53:38):
other things in the past. Looked at those things,like, OK, if I've got through that before,
then I can get through this. You know, HazelDines was one of those where I couldn't compare
it to anything. So that was just a pure, I justhave to find a way through this. There's no
(53:59):
option. I can't compare it and say, Oh, I'vebeen through X and it's been worse than that
because there's been nothing that has been worsethan that. So it was literally just a, well,
what am I going to do? Am I just going to giveup and give into it or I'm going to, like I
said before, pull one foot in front of the other,get through minute by minute, hour by hour.
(54:22):
over time.
know that leads to where I am right now. Ifyou're saying that wasn't ill, are you still
calling it ill now? Yeah, yeah.
back to the point about everything doesn't happenfor a reason. It was a loss, right? You know,
(54:48):
there's a, within the bereavement and grievingand widowed community, one of the viewpoints
on grief, when you lose someone, especiallyin these types of circumstances. where it was
sudden, it was unexpected, it was long beforeHazel hadn't lived a long life and got to a
(55:15):
certain age and all the rest of it. Where...The grief doesn't go away. Then there's a diagram
that you have where, you know, the first circle,there's two circles. The first one is, it's
a big circle, and it's black.
(55:38):
That circle represents your life, and the blackrepresents grief at the point in time that
it happens. So literally, your life is consumedby that. There's no space for anything. And
what they say is that, and this doesn't haveto be precise, you know, it's not completely
black and white, of course, because life isn'tlike that as far, life is far from black and
(56:01):
white. But what they say is that actually, whenit comes to grief, what happens is...
The grief or the size of the grief doesn't change.You just need to build a new life. So you build
yourself a new circle around the original one.And as you start to build that new circle,
(56:26):
that gets bigger and bigger, the grief staysthe same size, the bereavement, the hurt stays
the same size. But you learn to build a newlife around it. So as a percentage of how much
of your life that it consumes, it becomes smaller.all the time, but it's still there. So it's
still an L. It's just that I've built a newlife around it. And yes, there are moments
(56:54):
where it catches me. There are moments whereI intentionally embrace it and face it and
say, this is just shit, man. What the, right?But then I move on from it and say, hey, yep,
that was my moment to just kind of say, hey,what the hell's going on? And then I move on
from it and say, hey, you know what, a goodlife. And I've been practicing gratitude for
(57:19):
a long time. Again, I just didn't know it. I'vebeen practicing gratitude since such a young
age. I just, I didn't know it. And as I lookback over my life, I'm like, damn, I've been
doing that for, I just didn't appreciate that.That's what it was. Many people won't get this.
(57:43):
As tough as all of this has been, I'm alive.I'm alive. I've been here to raise my boys,
our boys. I've nursed them. supported them throughschool, their education, all the bad moments,
(58:05):
all the tempers, terrible tunes, all of thatstuff. My eldest now is a teenager and all
of that stuff that people talk about is teenageyears and all the rest. I get to experience
all of that in its full glory. And Hazel hasn'tbeen able to. She wasn't even able to hold
(58:28):
or see Isaac. So every single day, I am grateful.Even on the days where the boys are no the
hell out of me, and I feel like, you know, givingthem away or whatever, because they're just
kind of being young kids of a certain age andtheir behaviors and all the rest of it. I am
(58:50):
grateful. And I say that I'm grateful everysingle day, because I get to experience all
of this. And the haze of the temple, and thereare many people. past, young and old, young,
and not being able to see whatever in life thatwe would have expected them to see. And so,
(59:15):
as much as that might be a difficult thing forpeople to get their head around, for me, it
has been one of the driving forces throughoutmy life. I've, for some reason, I've always
been able to say, no matter what. crap I'vebeen through. It could have been different.
(59:37):
It could have been a worse situation. This couldhave happened. There are others that have been
through something even worse than me, comparativelyspeaking. So actually, I'm just gonna get on
and do what I need to do.
incredible. Conscious of time. I appreciatenot every L is a loss, but at the same time
(01:00:05):
an L can just feel like an L because it is anL. I love the fact that you're still able to
gain something from this experience and helpit fuel the version of yourself that you believe
is yourself and you carry your wife with you.in every interaction I've had with you, I feel
(01:00:26):
like I learn more and more about this amazinghuman being and I know she lives on in you,
in your boys and everyone else that knew her.Absolutely. I will ask you this before I conclude.
For the next two minutes, can you share whereyou're going to be, how people can find you?
(01:00:49):
on social media, obviously, I don't want realstalkers kind of come after you. And I want
to give you a hug, this story, right? But ifyou could just share where you're at socially
on social media, where you are in terms of whatyou're doing that people can consume if they
want to learn more about yourself. Yeah, twominutes selfishly plug yourself, my friend.
(01:01:10):
Yeah. So I'm LinkedIn and Instagram is justAlec. My website is the same, alecengrant.com.
I have a related one, but you can connect toit from that. I've got a newsletter, so between
(01:01:33):
putting stuff out on LinkedIn, I'm on LinkedInand Insta the most, always putting out content
around wellbeing, mindset, self-mastery, daily.well-being habits, daily resilient habits.
If you go to my website, you can sign up formy newsletter. You know, it's not supposed
to be over complicated or whatever, it's justreally simple. I share, you know, books, podcasts,
(01:01:59):
insights, things that I've read, experiences,my viewpoint on, you know, topical things around
just trying to, you know, build a lifestyle,build a mindset, build self mastery. So...
Yeah, feel free to connect with me. Yeah, anyof those platforms. Amazing. Thank you very
(01:02:23):
much. Obviously want to thank you so much foryour honesty, just being vulnerable as you
are and this conversation is very, very difficultfor me because I know it's a very sensitive
topic. I know I've heard some of this stuffbefore but there was more that I kind of wanted
(01:02:47):
to understand your psyche around and sometimesit's easy to shy away from someone when you
respect them and you're that close to them,but you want to know so you avoid asking the
question because it's easier and that's kindof like why I like this platform because when
you ask someone questions that are slightlymore How did you feel? What made you feel that
(01:03:14):
way? How did you react? If you're talking toa loved one face to face or virtually however
it is, chances are your answers will differdepending on what faces they're pulling, how
they react to what you're saying. Me askingthose questions, knowing how I feel about you
and our bond that we've got made it very hardfor me to want to ask those questions and be
(01:03:38):
respectful of those. those feelings you havebecause I am not going to act like once this
recording stops life will resume as it was leftoff. You've gone through those memories, you've
relived those memories for the sake of me andanyone else that listened to this episode and
(01:04:03):
I want to thank you. I hope that you're notin a bad place because of it. but able to celebrate
her life. Cause I, trust me, I feel so gratefulthat you two found each other and was able
to have the life that you had together. Andthis is a life that you have minus her in flesh
(01:04:28):
but she's definitely here in spirit and in theDNA of the boys. And I'm sure you can see the
manner is pouring out through them as well.And I just want to sort of acknowledge that
I'm not taking this for granted in any way,shape or form. I just, I don't know, I told
you, this is amazing. I know you're just doingyou and I'm not trying to gas you up so that
(01:04:51):
you feel that you have to act any which way.You being you and accepting yourself for the
way you are is so empowering to others. AndI say that because I am one of those people
and I thank you for it. I'm sorry for what you'vehad to experience, but I'm so grateful that
(01:05:12):
you are grateful and that you allow these situationsto further fuel and to pay it forward for other
people. I'm so grateful to charities that wereable to support and to help you through a very
challenging time. I thank all your family andfriends and those people around you that are
(01:05:33):
willing to contribute towards helping make avery very difficult situation, a little bit
more bearable, because no matter how much effortpeople can pour into your situation, when you've
gone through something like that, I can onlyimagine, that's like trying to put a plaster
on a dam, one of the dams missing a big oldhole out of it. You've just got a whole wave
(01:05:56):
of emotions pouring out and you're thinking,that plaster's not really doing much of anything,
but it's the thought that counts. And you, I,I feel like I'm saying things that anyone listening
will probably understand what I'm trying tosay, but just lacking in the vocabulary to
be able to do so. However, I have to wrap thisup, but I wanna just stress how happy I am
(01:06:18):
for you, so happy for our friendship, so happyfor everything you have. And I understand that
we've only scratched the surface and there'sso many more challenges and so many ongoing
struggles that you have to overcome. But I,yeah, people just reach out to him. He'll share
what he feels comfortable to share. and he'sa great guy to know. Even though he's gone
(01:06:40):
through something like this and this loss isa loss, he still understood and discovered
that the grief will always remain. And that'ssomething to hold onto. But his life is bigger,
in part because of the family that they weregrowing together. I like to believe that a
(01:07:00):
person is having a family when they've got oneother person. that they're with. I don't like
the whole waiting until you've got a child beforeyou have a family because not everyone can
have a child or will have a child. So you area family unit once you two are together and
committed to one another and then it just expandsfurther and further. And if it wasn't for her
(01:07:21):
in his life, he may not be the person he istoday. He wouldn't have the beautiful boys
he has who are super like amazingly good kidsbut you can understand why they are because
of his dad and because of his mum, their mumsorry. But I'm gonna have to wrap this up I
can't I can't keep going on I can't keep goingon. But everyone I hope you've enjoyed this
(01:07:44):
episode as much as I have and yeah just understandnot every hour is a loss and even if it is
a loss doesn't mean that's the place you'regonna reside in forever in terms of your feelings.
It can feel sometimes you don't want to acceptthe reality. I hold my hands up. My nan passed
away a number of years ago. I've still got ahouse number in my phone. I'm not willing to
(01:08:07):
pass that yet. But it doesn't mean I haven'tcontinued my life in other aspects. So it's
okay to feel what you're feeling. It's actuallyadvised to feel what you're feeling so you
can understand when you're not in a good placeversus a good, a good place. But try not to
dwell on it for too long because there may beso many other beautiful wonderful things you're
(01:08:27):
missing out on And just all about trying tolive full and die empty Please, please, please
look after yourself Experience what you canexperience and just remember there's nothing
about a caterpillar until it's gonna be a butterflyLook after yourself and I will catch you in
the next episode
(01:09:03):
Real.
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