September 4, 2023 • 65 mins
Our guest this week is Ashley who opens up about the struggles and losses she experienced, and how they ultimately led her to reDEFINE her own understanding of success. We delve into the importance of being kind to ourselves and the power of self-love and affirmation. Ashley's story serves as a reminder that through difficult times, it's crucial to acknowledge our own worth and treat ourselves the way we do our loved ones.
Ashley's journey not only transformed her as a mother and wife but also as a business owner. We explore her path from a successful dance career to opening a thriving boutique studio in London, to the unexpected closure brought on by the pandemic up to the creation of her new business and podcast Bizzimumzi.
Here are 3 talking points from the episode:
1. The importance of self-care and self-kindness 2. The power of self-reflection and sharing personal struggles 3. Resilience and adapting to change
Join us as we navigate through Ashley's empowering story, and discover how she discovered her true identity and built a brand with her daughter. We'll also touch on the joy of community and the importance of giving back. Stay tuned until the end, when Ashley graciously offers words of advice and encouragement for all our listeners.
Be sure to follow me on IG for exclusive content @EveryLPodcast
More about Ashley and Bizzimumzi:
Bizzimumzi was created by Ashley Verma’s own experience of becoming a first-time Mom in February of 2020. “Becoming a parent is life-changing. It’s a gift and lets be real… It’s terrifying! Once the little bundle of joy arrives, you quickly realise this isn’t all perfect Instagram shots. No, this is now all about survival!”Ashley Verma – self-proclaimed “ always coffee-infused” – was born and raised in Moundsville, West Virginia. She began a professional Broadway career at just 19, performing on Broadway and around the globe. It was while performing that her fitness career began, teaching sold out classes and personal training the elite. Jumping the pond with her British husband, she launched her first fitness business Define London. Ashley’s fitness business was thriving pre-COVID-19, and she was the go to personal trainer for the likes of celebrities Jourdan Dunn, Pippa Middleton, Lorena Rae and Lisa Snowden.
The global pandemic gave Ashley the harsh slap of reality when she found her Define London brick and mortar having to close down. Forced to pivot to virtual practices, she had just given birth to her daughter, Adiya, and her husband was frequently travelling to Uganda building his solar energy business. She felt overwhelmed, finding great struggle at times, but began to combat the postpartum depression by sharing ‘Mommy and Me’ workouts and vlogging adventures with Adiya on their Youtube channel, Bizzimumzi.
Celebrating her daughter’s first birthday, Ashley began to feel a bit more normal in a ‘new normal’ world. She and her husband were expecting a second child, but things took on a tragic turn at 12 weeks when they received news of a miscarriage. “Motherhood, parenting…. It’s bananas! I found myself spiralling, depressed with the miscarriage news. I was doing my best to be the best for Adiya while grieving the loss of my child. There is no baby book for this, It’s life!”
Surrounded by family and friends, Ashley was encouraged to start a podcast about her journey and bring on other Bizzimumzi’s to share their life experiences. Ashley’s journey creating Bizzimumzi has been beyond therapeutic for her and through weekly feedback after a podcast launch, so does her following.
The Bizzimumzi community is not just about the pretty bits. Ashley and every Bizzimumzi is unapologetically At Its Best, even when “At Its Best” has paint on the walls, cries filling the room, and you haven’t washed your hair in 4
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Yeah, that wasn't fun, but it was another likeswift kick in the gut and sadly, but we had
to move on, right? So when you had that lossthat I really was not expecting, I was like,
wow, we got pregnant again and this is awesomebecause I really wanted to have baby number
two and how lucky are we? And then you get thrownthe language in the words of, oh, well, you
(00:25):
know, it happens a lot. You know. You'll justtry again and you're just like, wait a minute,
I'm losing my business. Now I'm losing a childand I, what? Huh? What is this? You know, you
try to figure out who to lean on, what to leanon. And luckily, my husband was someone that
(00:45):
I've always leaned on, but he travels a lot.So he wasn't physically there.
Welcome ladies and gentlemen, I'm your host,Mack Brown and you're listening to the EveryL
(01:08):
Podcast. Each episode we'll have a differentguest come on and talk about when life hangs
you in hell, is it really a loss or is it somethingelse? Because not every hell's a loss. So sit
back, relax and do what every guy do to getcomfortable as we get into this. Let's go!
(01:35):
Welcome everyone to another episode of Everyellpodcast where we have different guests come
on and talk about things that happen in thelife the way it didn't really want it to work
out. And that's because for many reasons, weplan things, we put things in place, we make
provisions, we take courses, we upscale ourselvesto make sure that when the right opportunity
comes along, plus the preparation we put inplace, those two should equal success or what
(02:00):
we want to happen. But life... just don't bedoing things like that. Life don't do two plus
two equals four. It's all about algebra anddecimals and fractions and all sorts. And that
we don't compute with all the time. So I'm reallyhonored and privileged to have different guests
come on and share their things that they maynot be too comfortable sharing in normal conversation,
(02:20):
but understand that there's a need, there'sa want, there's a desire. There's actually
a fundamental reason for sharing these storiesso people feel less alone. And today, and it
is cliche, because I say it every episode, Ihave a fantastic guest. And this person I haven't
known, I don't know that you were long to behonest with you. However, I did my due diligence.
I did a bit of research and wow, she's a littlebit more fantastic than I anticipated her being.
(02:44):
She's got a brilliant brand, the way she doesthings. Admittedly for me, it feels like how
I've kind of done my podcast. Now I've doneother things. It's kind of serves you first.
And then if other people jump on the bandwagon,they benefit them sound. That's great. But
you start, you start charity starts at home.Let's be frank. Um, and what she's created,
(03:06):
how she goes about her stuff is just brilliant.I love the fact that she's authentically herself.
She doesn't put on this persona. Okay. Her energyis completely all the way up, but that's because
she's American. That's mine. That's what I thinkanyway. But it's just, she's just the way she
is. She deliver things the way she does. Sheabsolutely loves where she's at, even though
(03:30):
there's things she strives to achieve and accomplishin her life, but she doesn't let her right
now define where she's trying to get to fromwhat I've seen and from what I've read up on
her. But I'm really excited to have this conversationwith her because she's such a, she's a person,
I guess, I never really thought I'd ever havecontact with, didn't even know someone like
this existed. but it makes sense that thesepeople do exist. But yeah, I have Ashley here.
(03:52):
I'm not gonna steal away from the intro becausethere are a lot of things I could have said,
but I want her to divulge what she feels comfortablesharing before we proceed into our first L.
Ashley, how are you doing? I'm like a magicalfreaking unicorn. I mean, I mean- Something
like that. Yeah, like. Yeah. It's hilarious.Thank you for so much for asking me to be on
(04:14):
your podcast. I am honored. Yeah, I just cameacross you. because I'm a mutual guest and
checked out your podcast. I'm like, okay, I'mnot the target audience. I get that, but. You're
a dad. You're my target audience. You are adad. Okay, there we go. I am a target audience.
(04:35):
And anyone else that's a dad, that might bea target audience as well. But I was just listening,
just hearing the frank conversations, the candidnessof it all. And I just find those conversations
refreshing just because it makes you feel thatpeople can be real and not always have to caveat
with saying, I love you, but I love this, butmy kids are amazing, but it's just lay out
(04:58):
the table. It is what it is. We're not judgingyou here. You just got to feel that level of
comfortable with an individual. You have a verygood skill in able to do that. And you're very
business savvy. So I love that about you becauseyou're able to help bring the business smarts
to the table as well as, yeah, don't worry ifyou're wearing sweatpants or whatever it is,
(05:20):
get comfy, as long as you come 100, I'm therewith you, I'm all right. And I feel that combination
of personality doesn't, it's always forthcomingand that can be detrimental to a lot of our
wellbeing because people feel like if they'regonna be professional in quotation marks, they
must also look professional. But if you're aparent, or you've got other stuff going on,
it's not always possible, but it doesn't necessarilytake away from you being professional and you
(05:45):
are definitely that. Well, you know, I thinkthat 2020 really taught us that life is freaking
messy, right? So, and all we have is like thenow. So it's like to project forward through
what everyone went through globally in 2020through a pandemic, to get on the other side
of it, it's like... We have to take ourselvesseriously. We don't have to take ourselves
(06:10):
seriously, but we have to show up. No matterhow that is, we have to show up. And now that
I'm in this new phase of my life, a new season,as I say with quotations, of being a mom, because
I had my daughter rape before the pandemic,I'm in this whole new realm of business, but
(06:30):
also with my daughter by my side and navigatingthe wild world of. crayons and paint and dirty
this and all of the things that you think thatyou should be able to win at on the daily and
yet you don't and that is okay. It has beenquite fun, quite devastating and here we are,
(06:52):
Matt, here we are. Definitely. Please introduceyourself to the wonderful folks listening who
may not have heard about you. I'm sure thatthere are a lot of people that are listening
to this podcast that have probably never heardof me and that is A-OK. My name is Ashley Verma.
I am American, that you could probably tellby my nasal accent and that is fine. I am originally
(07:16):
from Moundsville, West by God, Virginia. Itis a drive-through state. I'm not going to
ask you, Matt, if you have been to West Virginiabecause you probably have not. I have not.
You've probably been to New York. or Washington,D.C., somewhere fancy like that. But yeah,
no, not too many people are going to West Virginia.I was pretty much like, I was raised there,
(07:38):
but like I have like a very big dance background.So I started doing a lot of my dance training
and everything as a kid all the way up throughin New York City. So like New York kind of
became home for me. And then I moved there officiallywhen I was 19. Yeah, and I've just been kind
of on a trajectory of always Broadway musicals,performing as an actor, a singer, a dancer,
(08:03):
and got into fitness. What you were saying inthe intro that I was a business person, I was
like, am I? I've never really looked at myselfas a business person. I'm someone who is learning.
I'm learning a lot every day about business.I do think that I've gotten better at it. I'll
(08:25):
never say that I'm great at it because I thinkthat there's always room for improvement. But
when I was in New York in Broadway show, atthe time I had gotten into fitness as a side
hustle and then somehow magically became likea very well sought after trainer in New York
(08:45):
City. And when I met my husband, And he waslike, why would I like to go back to London?
I was like, well, I'll go back. I'll go to Londonwith you. Sure. Why not? Am I going to get
that funny accent? And he was like, no, you'renot going to get the accent. You get to keep
yours. So we jumped the pond and I, that waswhen I wanted to make this turn into business
(09:08):
and have my own business. And that is when Ikind of went on this path of no longer being
the Broadway performer and jumping from showto show and all of that. I was... known as
Ashley Verma, you know, celebrity fitness trainer,and she was the go-to bar expert. So I started
(09:29):
up in 2016 teaching all over London. I had contractswith Google, Sky TV, Third Space, Lorna Jane.
I taught everywhere. And then I grew my littleteam and I grew an army of a following that
kind of pushed me to open up my first ever bricksand mortar. I never like, I never thought it
(09:52):
would, I was going that way at the very beginningof it. And then once I realized like how much
people loved this workout, it was like, wow,this is really happening. And then 2018, I
opened my first bricks and mortar on a greatPortland street, right around the corner from
the BBC. And yeah, you know, when you get intobusiness, you... You go in with your guts,
(10:18):
right? Like you go in all in. And I was veryfortunate to have a partner who believed in
me and invested in me and a family that investedin me. And we opened up this beautiful little
boutique studio in the heart of central London.And it had heart, like it had such heart. And
(10:41):
when 2020 hit, Just like with everything, welost heart. We lost a lot of magic. We lost
a lot of things that no one ever expected tolose overnight. And before I knew it, I suffered
a rather big L and found myself in 2021 handingthe keys in because there was no way that we
(11:04):
could sustain keeping the door shut becausewe were in a lockdown for so long. and paying
astronomical bills that overhead. And it's notjust about the physical space, it's all the
things that go with it, with the electric, withthe water, with the gas, with the cleaning
(11:25):
and your staff. It's like, there's so much thatgoes into it that when that heart gets cut,
everything goes, right? Like everything bleeds,you can't control it. And I just watched it.
fall apart. And I, you know, when you look atsomething like that, and you go, gosh, like,
(11:46):
it's very dramatic. But when you invest in something,and you give your all and you give your, all
of your time, all of your energy, and then youput on top of it, you have staff that you worry
about their bills, their rent, their food ontheir table. That's a lot on your shoulders,
right? So when we looked at it, and I, I saidto my husband at the time, like even when we
(12:09):
went into this first lockdown, I had my daughterwith elected cesarean, and because I had envisioned
that I would be out of the hospital and pushingthat pram to define London on Great Portland
Street, and I would be doing all the admin workon day four post-baby, because that's just
what you do as a business person, right? AndI just had all of these things in my head that
(12:35):
I was going to be doing, and when it just camecrashing and burning down, I was locked in
the second bedroom and Adia was in a bouncybounce next to me and a computer was there
and I was just teaching, morning, noon, at night,just teaching. And we just, I would come out
of the room and I should not even have beenworking out. I wasn't even like doctors approved
(12:56):
to work out. And my husband would look at meand he's like, are you okay? I was like, it
doesn't matter right now. Like no one is okay.Like we're just like, we're trying to get through
this all while navigating this like wild worldof parenting. But that was the first time of
like with business that I did feel, I guessyou could say I did feel like a business person,
(13:20):
but losing, but losing it was like my firstloss in business. I've lost people, I've lost
my pillar, my dad, but like losing this trickleddown in such a way that... I think that we
really waited for a full year to really go,we should hand the keys in because we just
(13:45):
didn't wanna acknowledge, we didn't wanna acceptit. And when you lose like this, I think the
first set of denial, I think probably you'vehad other guests come on here and they talk
about denial of the loss. And I think that'slike the first thing that really comes forward
for me is that denial like, no, I didn't fail,I didn't. Like this didn't go completely demise
(14:09):
or whatever, but because I try, like I reallygenuinely gave it my all. And when you look
at it and you're like, gosh, I was in denialthat whole 2020 that I was gonna magically
fix this and go back to that magical unicornthat you were hyping me up to be Matt, you
(14:31):
know? But I'm... I wasn't that magical unicorncome 2021. I was going into my daughter's first
birthday. We were still on Zoom. We were allstill collectively moving with the virtual.
So Define moved to a virtual outlet and it wasbeautiful. Oh my God, I loved the community
(14:54):
and they were the heartbeat of it. They werelike the pulse that on the days that I thought.
there is no way in hell I can do this. I wouldopen the screen, press play, there everyone
was and they were like, what are we gonna do?And I would put Pitbull on or some sort of
Shakira nonsense and we would start moving andgrooving together and it was just medicine.
(15:18):
And so I think during that 2020 of denial, Iused all of that as the medicine. Like that
was the medicine to get through. And then when2021 came, it was like, we gotta talk for real
now. Like we got to really put on our big girlpants. And we tried to reopen the studio. And
(15:39):
the landlord was already like, well, you wereopen, you were closed. Like we got to figure
out this rent situation. And we were like, wehaven't been open to full capacity. Like we
went from, so the studio had a studio upstairsand downstairs, so you could fit 14 people
upstairs and 14 people downstairs. when yousocially distance, you drop to six. You can't
(16:04):
even go in the bathroom because it's too small.You can go in one at a time. So no one was
coming there pre-work. Well, wait a minute.There was no pre-work. People were working
from home. So why would they be coming intocentral London? We heavily relied on Arcadia
Group that housed 3,000 people that worked forTopshop. They had a corporate account. The
(16:29):
BBC at the time was 30% capacity, if that, whenwe came back out of COVID. It was like all
of these corporate accounts that we had andthis community that we had, just kind of like
they were showing up on virtual. Well, virtualpricing of $4.99 wasn't going to cut central
(16:51):
London rent. It was like a whole other thingthat happened. We just kind of like, I looked
at my husband, I was just like, I'm sorry, likeI have like, I don't know what else to do.
Like this is it. Like we're, we have to be done.And so we did. We stopped. And when you look
(17:21):
at something like that and you go, God, like,am I a failed business person now? Is my magical
unicorn self? no longer magical unicorn becauseI failed as a business person and I lost something.
I think after probably a lot of wine and maybesome tequila, I'm not going to lie, Matt, there
(17:44):
might have been some tequila in there. I hada lot of chats with my husband about it and
he, during all of the pandemonium of the upsand the downs of the business, he kept on going
you're still losing you and you used to be socreative and you used to have a spark of like
(18:05):
all this energy. Do something with Adia, mydaughter. And do something with her. Like do
mommy and me workouts, do something. He wasn'tlike trying to like get me out of the room
and be like, just go on. But like, just likeyou've always been creative. So just create
something. And... That was a big, big catapultand a shift and a turn to take something that
(18:32):
I love so much, where so much invested capital.When it's your money, it's one thing. When
it's other folk money, that sits very differently.that money was a family investment and I did
(18:53):
not take that lightly and I think that's probablyanother reason why I couldn't stop and I didn't
want to lose. And when I shifted a little bitof energy over to creating what is now busy
mumsy, it did give me a little bit of lightand a little bit of hope and like a different
switch to the mindset when I wasn't in panicmode of trying to figure out if... You know,
(19:19):
if my staff was going to stay, if they weregoing to stay to support, if they were going
to, you know, everyone has rent to pay. If Iwas going to even give them enough classes
to pay their rent, like that's, or are theylike, it got to the point where, well, why
would I actually, why I live here? So why wouldI come into the studio to teach one class?
(19:40):
Well, that's all I have to give. Well, it doesn'tmake financial sense. So if you can do it online,
I'll stay at home and teach from there. Andyou're just like, I have this beautiful studio
in central London and no one wants to come in.They wanna teach from home. Okay. So when I
started working and shifting over to this busymumsy concept, it really was a moment to create
(20:07):
and find an energy and a spark and really justfeel more connected to my daughter. And. Over
time, I mean, my husband, if he was sittingright here right now, he would say, yeah, it
took a big shift of positivity for me. And Ididn't feel like I was failing anyone because
(20:28):
it was just me and her. And we went on to createand it was so much fun. So we started a little
YouTube channel and that's fun. We have likea modest little following there and it's super,
super pretty and I love it. And when in 2021.after her first birthday, and we were already
like, this is, the studio is gonna have to cometo a halt. It's like, we're gonna have to like,
(20:53):
we need to start these conversations. I hadfallen pregnant again, which was very exciting.
And I ended up miscarrying at...
11, 12 weeks, 13, I had the DNC at 14 weeks.And yeah, that wasn't fun. But it was another
(21:21):
like swift kick in the gut. And sadly, and butwe had to move on, right? So when you when
you had that loss that I really was not expecting,I was like, wow, we got pregnant again. And
this is awesome, because I really wanted tohave baby number two. and how lucky are we?
And then you get thrown the language in thewords of, oh, well, you know, it happens a
(21:48):
lot. And you know, you'll just try again. Andyou're just like, wait a minute, I'm losing
my business. Now I'm losing a child. And I,what? Huh? What is this? And you know, you
try to figure out who to lean on, what to leanon. And luckily, You know, my husband was someone
(22:09):
that I've always leaned on, but he travels alot. He wasn't physically there. So, um, I,
I had this delicious little human named Adia,my little baby girl. And, um, I, we, we shifted
back into working on busy mumsy later on inthe year, like very much, um, later on in the
(22:31):
year, um, I was packing up to find. And I washaving a conversation with someone that said,
you should start a podcast. And I was like,huh, I should start a podcast. What? He's like,
well, you know, like you have a story. You'dlike to talk. Um, backhanded compliment. He
(22:54):
liked the talk. Yeah. Why not? Um, no, I, youknow, I, I know why you said it. He, he was
a former, um, radio host in America and he usedto work with Casey he now has his own marketing
company. And I was talking to him for freshideas on how to market the crazy worldwide
(23:16):
web of like trying to promote classes and teachingand like all that kind of stuff. And I just
like, and you know, he just came out of theblue with like, whatever happened to Busy Mumsie
and why aren't you doing a podcast and why don'tyou tell your story and get other people on
board? And I was like, That's not half thatidea, but yes, you are right. He did say you
(23:37):
do like to talk. Don't worry, I get it a lotmyself, it's fine. But listen, you also know
as the host, it's like when you're the host,you're like, you kind of keep like, you kind
of get trapped and you don't talk because youwant the guests to tell the story, right? And
then it's like, when do you chime in? It's like,what happened? So Matt, you can chime in at
(23:57):
any time. I'm actually liking. hearing it unravel,because you're a good storyteller. And it's
just, there is a lot that I'm thinking, oh mygosh, rein it in, there's a lot of questions
I wanna go through. But, and I'm afraid it'slike, they're gonna put you under pressure
for the listeners, more so me than anyone else.But because I'm hearing a couple of things
(24:21):
in there, I'm like, we definitely have to getyou on for a part too, because I just like
to give people that space, that time to talkabout. how they felt going through tough situations.
Well, you know what, Matt, I mean, to be honestwith you, I think I'm rather proud of myself
that I've not had a good old solid cry herewith you in the space of 20 minutes. When you
(24:47):
break stuff down, like anyone that's talkingabout loss, when you break it down and then
you really actually hear yourself talk aboutit, it's like, God, it's so deep rooted down
in there. And like... It's like, I'm not tryingto be like an emotional basket case, but like,
it's therapy in a way to get it out. And I always,I say this to even clients that go through
(25:11):
hard times when I'm in personal training sessionswith them and they're like, I'm having a really
shit day and I'm like, we'll try this. And it'simportant to talk. And it is. And like what
I was going to say about with Busy Mumsy, itwas like, I was talking to someone that didn't
really know that well, didn't really have afriendship with him. seen him on Zoom a couple
(25:32):
of times, and he's just like, start this, dothis. And I was like, gosh, like, maybe he
has something there. Like, maybe I should trybusy mumsy again. And honestly, when I did,
and I felt this, like, almost reassurance frommy daughter of like this glue back to magic,
(25:53):
of like what energy she can give me to makeme. I don't know if this is the right thing
to say, but feel better, be better, be moremindful, be kinder to myself. I mean, because
I'm sure within your podcast, you've met a lotof people that have gone through a lot of loss.
(26:15):
And the one thing that you do, A, you do thatdenial, but B, you can be so wretched to yourself.
You can really look at yourself in the mirror,but like not really look at you. You see this.
absolutely like grotesque form of yourself.And when you reflect back on it, you're like,
(26:38):
gosh, like, did anyone else see me like that?Or was that, would anyone else see that Halloween
costume I was wearing for a good year and ahalf, two years? Cause wow, she wasn't pretty.
She wasn't approachable. She was so lost.
(27:13):
Right? Like you, you do, you find yourself solost. And so like when, when I found Busy Mumsy
again, and was able to put pen to paper andwas able to put words to it, because before
it was more just about movement. It was likeeverything I did was defined, but like Adia
(27:34):
was in a bouncy bounce or Adia was crawlingon the floor or she was in my arms and we were
squatting and doing lunges. And This time itwas like, oh wow, it has movement, but it has
a voice and it has reason and it has purpose.And it was like for the first time in a very
long time of feeling in the trenches of lossthat I was feeling a little bit more stable
(28:02):
footing. And I mean, that's definitely whatyou wanna feel when you are coming on the other
side of loss. is that you are finding your feetagain. And, you know, I was really lucky that
my daughter was there. And like, she won't rememberthat. But she was so there. And she still has
(28:29):
been like, throughout this whole process ofbuilding Busy Mumsy from with the podcast,
and, you know,
Finally, I had launched the website in Octoberof 2022. That's now like a blog community and
(28:49):
has the podcast and it has workouts. I've shiftedthat heartbeat, that business of Define. I've
shifted it over to the, and I'm giving it forfree because to be able to give, when you build
a community and you feel like you really letthem down and you kind of like close it, Like
(29:12):
how do you give back? Like how do
you move forward? You give, right? So I hadall of this content and was like, let's just
put it on the platform. So every week I putup new free workouts and anyone can go to the
(29:32):
space, pick what you want. It's not going anywhere.It's always gonna be there. And it was there
for you to move, to inspire. to be happy. Yeah.You know, I'm gonna, I know we're quite deep
into the episode. Folks, if you don't know,there was a couple of L's that were thrown
(29:52):
at me. Given the way the conversation has gone,I'm gonna pick up on the loss of me because
the overwhelming theme I'm hearing from this,from the multitude of setbacks is- it took
a knock on you not being that unicorn that youso eloquently put it as. And I can only imagine
(30:18):
when you're backing yourself, you know, youdid dance way back when, you got yourself there,
you was on Broadway, you was making the most,you was traveling, and then you pivoted, did
something else. People were into backing you,you pitched a good pitch and you pitched it
so well. that people like family, cause let'sbe fair, strangers are willing to invest in
(30:40):
other people, cause if anything don't go theway it's meant to go, they can go ham on them,
feel no way. When it's family, you go to a familyreunion, you're trying not to bring that up
about money, but that's all that's on your mind.That's like topic one, two and three. You've
got nothing else after that, but you backedyourself. So to go into business and COVID
(31:01):
happened, nobody knew what this COVID thingwas. People's like, what's that a new drink?
I don't know what it's about, what you're about.and you're thinking, there was no SWOT analysis
for this, you know, strength, weakness, opportunity,threat, COVID, was never there, it wasn't on
anybody's. If you're a big corporation, cool,you can afford the PPE, you can afford this,
you just don't get a bonus that year. If you'rea small to medium sized business, what extra
(31:24):
money? I've got to eat beans on toast for the,sorry, what? I don't have the budget for that
and then you want me to pay for rent, you wantme to pay service charge, you want me to pay
all this other. Okay, how is this viable? Allof a sudden you suddenly got to get up to speed
with the internet, what is viable. Once upona time Skype was a thing, then people suddenly
(31:47):
were on Zoom and then you gotta think, oh Zoom,MS Teams, all this stuff. What, what's the
right thing for this business model if I'm gonnado it there? That's a lot to take on board.
And the same way, and I'm assuming here, soplease correct me, when you created your business
case for that original investment for Define,You took your time, you did your research,
(32:08):
you had everything there, you knew what to investyour time and energy in because you'd already
researched the landscape, the field of expertisethat you was going into. This is now, right,
I need to do this yesterday and you're panickingbecause, I don't know if you're anything like
me, everybody that was on the news, and I triednot to watch the news, but it was something
new, right? People sneeze and they'll die. Likewhat, sorry, excuse me. I just brought a child
(32:32):
into this world. what is this I brought theminto? It will pass because, you know, things
like this don't last very long. One week, twoweeks, three weeks, all right, you're taking
a mick now. Like what, what is that? Even thoughI buried my head in the sand cause it's good
for my mental health, the banks ain't buryingtheir head in the sand. They're still sending
me bills. All these other people are still sendingme bills because they're not burying their
(32:53):
head in the sand. They want to get paid. YetI am being nice, but you guys aren't reciprocating
that. So I need to start charging and you haveto change things up. Having a child is a massive,
massive life event. And I can only imagine asthe person who was the vehicle for carrying
said child, your hormones would have been allover the place going through what you went
(33:15):
through. And again, it's your baby, you know,not just a physical baby, but also you've got
your business. What do I do? Am I doing a goodenough job? I don't know if you had the same
thoughts for me, like what world have I broughtthis child into? You then go through miscarriage,
which is... I'm not experienced it personally,however, one in four people have miscarriage,
(33:37):
which is not nice to hear in any way, shapeor form. And that's why I try and correct people
when they say, I just want a normal pregnancy,you don't want a normal pregnancy because what
you think normal is in quotation marks is alot of bumps and hiccups along the way. It's
not what you think is, it's not a matter ofyou go to the hospital, sneeze the babies out.
It's not that, that is that, that's a unicornmoment right there. But you've gone through
(34:01):
all this stuff. you've then again pivoted, soyou pivoted from dance to define, to online,
to busy mumsy, and you did this. And it is easyfor me to understand how you can lose your
identity, lose yourself within this, becauseyou're there for other people. And I just,
(34:28):
I need to understand, when did you first feellike you're, you were slipping away from recognizing
who was facing you in the mirror. Um, uh, youknow, I've never really said this before. Um,
so we, when we pivoted to virtual, I've alwaysdid like the personal training and then, um,
(34:51):
there were group classes. So we were runningabout, we started out with like 20, then we
went up to, I think the most we ever did waslike 36 virtual classes a week on the platform.
but I was doing predominantly all of the personaltraining. And I had just had my daughter four
weeks prior, we went into this lockdown andwe started this online platform. And I'm in
(35:12):
this foreign body, and back to the hormones,foreign body, I'm getting on Zoom and I am
waking up at five in the morning to teach, butbefore that, as you know, with kids, it's like
you're up all night, right? With a newborn.Yeah. And this whole... catastrophic thing
(35:33):
has happened in the pandemic. And I am teachingall of these clients, these personal training
clients, one after another, after another, afteranother. And I'm not kidding you when I say
there were days where I would be in a room fromfive in the morning until 5 p.m., 6 p.m. I
(35:55):
would teach for nine hours, 10 hours, one toone, back to back. back to back with the baby.
And I would come out of it not in the senseof like group fitness and personal training.
It's fulfilling because you are, you're helpingsomeone. And I love that. It's, it's, it even,
(36:16):
it lends itself to performing. You perform onstage so you can take someone away for two
and a half hours and tell them a story to sing,to dance, to move, to all of that magic. When
I was trapped in this room, and I say trappedbecause that's what it felt like, I was in
this room, in this tiny little space, and Adia,this new foreign thing, I've only known for
(36:41):
like six weeks, is there and she needs me andshe loves me. And I am trying to not only give
to her, but give to every freaking person thatwas zooming in. I came out of there angry.
because no one cared how I was feeling. Becauseall they wanted was me to coach them, to make
(37:08):
them feel better, to make them feel like theylook amazing and yet, like all of those things
that the personal trainer is meant to do. AndI literally in that journey, there were specific
clients that I am so glad that I actually donot train anymore because they... literally
(37:28):
sucked the life out of me. And that's when Ilost myself. That was when it had nothing to
do with Adia. It had nothing to do with my husband.It had nothing to do with my close-knit family
that I love that supported me. But because Ihad to give so much, because all I could think
about was this amount of money that was owedto keep this business. And I had to do this.
(37:57):
that when I walked out of there, I was justlike, I've lost, like I've lost me. Like I
don't, like there's no joy. Like teaching forme was performing to me and that was joy. None
of that was joy. That's a shame to hear. ThankGod they paid me money, Matt. Thank God they
paid me money. Well, that's good. I'm gonnasay I'm gonna be a bit graphic here, but it's
(38:20):
my podcast or whatever, right? So for thosepeople that may not understand and I'm gonna
make an assumption here. You're in this foreignbody. What people may not understand, you have
a look at her, she's very well kept in termsof you do exercise, you look after yourself,
you eat healthy and whatnot, right? So if you'vethen had a baby, your body's gonna be a little
bit more bigger than you used to. Your jointshave had to change because of carrying said
(38:46):
baby. And all of a sudden you're leaking fromnew places. You know, these are things that,
oh, what now? And now you've got to think aboutprepping for them. whether you're expressing,
whether you're breastfeeding, whether you'reusing formula, that's prep work that you never
used to do. So it's a very, it's a culture shock.And then when you still got people treating
(39:08):
you the same way, it kind of makes you feellike, oh, I'm just a number to you. I'm just
an object to you. And if your hormones are ragingthe way they could be raging or could have
been raging, I kind of get that. What was theturning point for you in order to no longer
feel that way?
(39:32):
You know, I mean, there's not one specific it.When, when my husband would come back to London
from Uganda, because that's where his businessis. And that's where I currently sit. He was
not seeing the person he married. So I thinkthat was a big turning point. And I would say
(39:59):
that it had nothing to do with aesthetic. Itjust wasn't me. I wasn't magical. I wasn't
fun.
(40:26):
Is it the fact that the burdens of expectationsfrom all these different things were weighing
you down? So normally where you're a high flyer,you're a dreamer, you're like a hot air balloon,
all of a sudden you're not taking off becauseof these things holding you down. You know
what, like, I think that you could also lookat this from a sense of like, oh, well, her
ego got knocked. It wasn't even ego. Like I'vegot broad shoulders. Like I can handle a lot
(40:52):
of shit. Like I'm good, but like. This was froma place of like, you can only give so much.
Like your cup can only runneth over. Your cupcan only be so full or so empty and all of
the things. And when he came home and he wasjust like, whoa, I was like, I just like, I
(41:15):
can't. Like I can't give anymore because noone cares. No one cares how I am getting through
this at this point, because I just felt likeI had just been like a punching bag, every
(41:36):
like, like a hamster wheel, like you're on thehamster wheel every day during that time that
like, when he came back, he was just like, youneed to slow down. I was like, well, I can't,
unless we have to get rid of this, because it'scrushed me. While he was away, Who was your
support group? My daughter. Outside of her,who could you have adult conversation with
(42:04):
and share your burdens? Yeah, you'll love thisone. I had, and not to say this as privileged,
but it will come across privileged. I had helpcome to my house on Monday, Tuesday and Friday.
And those three days was when I had Rowena,my super nanny. And she would come in on those
(42:24):
three days. And those were the three days Ihad childcare. And I would be in my room without
Adia. But did you have anyone you could talkto? I had my mom in Ameri- in Florida and my
brother in Virginia. But no one that was intouching distance. You know, I've, you know,
(42:45):
friendships are interesting. I think this isa whole other podcast in itself as well. I
will say that. Friendships are interesting.And I've always felt that when it comes to
friendship, like I have my people and I've alwaysheld them close to me. But as we get older,
(43:07):
we lose friends, right? We kind of like friendshipsebb and they flow. And when I moved to London,
it was not easy. And I don't know if you'veheard this before from expats, but like when
you move to London, it's not the easiest placeto move to. And if you... are not going to
school, you're in an adult ville and you'retrying to make that happen. I was so focused
(43:31):
on business that I, to me, like, oh, I needto go out to meet friends. That wasn't a high
priority to me. Mine was like, my husband'shere, he's creating business, I'm here, I'm
going to create business. So I met wonderful,incredible humans through teaching and they
became friends. But I, and this could be a hugefault of mine and you can judge me for this
(43:59):
and that is fine too. But when it comes to friendships,when I was building this business, I stayed
very at arm's length with everyone. And I didthat because I didn't wanna screw up. So when
I moved to London, I have closer friends inLondon now that I no longer have the business.
(44:25):
And I'm here in Uganda. And I know I get tovisit them and see them when I'm back in London.
They're closer. I feel like I'm closer withthem now, if that makes sense, because I'm
not worried about this thing that I had to takeall these boxes. And I was going to ask is
it because you're worried about being distractedfrom not achieving that goal or reimbursing
(44:50):
investment that was originally afforded to you?Yeah, I think it was a little bit of everything.
I think that you go into it and you're justlike, well, I think you also question too,
well, do they want to be my friend because theywant free class? Yeah. well, if they're all
my friends, then I have to give them all freeclass. Like, you know what I mean? Like you
(45:13):
can think all sorts of weird and wonderful ways.I just felt so like arms length. And maybe
that's just me. Maybe that's like a new partof my life. And this was pre-baby that when
I moved there, I was very guarded and I don'tknow. I really don't know. But I do know now
(45:35):
that I'm on the other side of it. there is thisincredible human being, her name's Neve. And
I mean, she was probably one of my first everclasses that I ever taught in London. And the
same goes for this gal named Bex. And like,we check in on each other all the time. And
(45:57):
like, I feel so close to them now that I nolonger really, that I don't have that Brickson
Moir and that defined doesn't define me. Andlike the one thing that my husband did say
to me when we finally were like, we're doneand you're out. And I like handed the keys
and everything. He's like, remember these wallsdo not define you. You just don't like go beyond
(46:19):
it. And I feel like ever since I did walk outof it, I have felt way more grounded and way
more connected to people and also doing stuffthat serves me. not for this bank account to
(46:42):
pay into because this burden, this money wasthere from family. So with all that's been
said and done, did you react in a negative wayat all during these challenging times? To myself,
yes. To my husband, yes. May also manifest themselvesbecause I know that I have some traits that
(47:08):
are... For me, I accept them as they are. Forthose that I love around me, not too pleasant.
I mean, my husband has seen my face all shadesof red. Like I mean, he, I have kicked and
screamed and said everything under the sun andhe's my backbone. So why wouldn't he hear it?
(47:34):
I mean... True. He's my number one. My mother,my number two is my mom. So she's really far
away. So it's, you know, it, it's a toss upbetween the two. Um, business wasn't smooth
pre baby, but it was business hiccups, right?Like business things are like, oh, we're gonna
(47:56):
have to cut these towels because they're tooexpensive. I mean, like that champagne problems,
whatever. But like, when it's spiraling outof a control that you can't control and you
never imagined, yeah, it's going to bring upa real gnarly side to you. And that's really
going back to when he came back from Ugandaand he looked at me, he's like, you are like,
(48:19):
who are you? Like, we got to come up with agame plan. And rightfully so we did. And I've
gotten on the other side of it. I'm like, Thereally amazing thing out of everything that
I have said, I will have to say and expresshow I feel that it was a successful business.
(48:44):
I did a damn good job. I look at it and I'mlike, holy hell, Jordan Dunn came three times
a week. I trained her and adore her to piecesand is still a friend. We had these incredible
collaborations. My first big contract in centralLondon was with Google. Like, I am not gonna
(49:08):
take that, those shiny things away because thoseshiny things were like epic and they were huge
milestones that a lot of people will take yearsto get. So I won't take that away from it,
but damn did it get hard. And was it ever theright move? to cut it when we did and it was
(49:31):
the right move. And to now be on the other side,to build a brand that's my full heart and my
daughter. And it's just the two of us. I'm like,I'm all in. And for me, I'm working on an exciting
project with In Busy Mumsy. And I hope to oneday sing from the rooftops once I get it perfected.
(50:00):
Yeah, it's crazy, but loss to wrap that up ofthis whole story of the loss for me of losing
that business really taught me so much. On theother side of it, hands down, made me way,
(50:21):
way better mom, business owner, business developerand a wife. What about? the loss of losing
yourself, your identity. What did you gain fromthat, if anything? She's getting better. She's
getting better. She's not perfect. That's forsure. But for me, I learned so much about myself
(50:45):
and I continue to learn so much about myselfon the daily. And that loss was a huge lesson.
And it's a loss that I'm not ashamed of by nostretch. And like I said, a lot of highs, a
lot of highs. I just wasn't ready to. to knockCOVID out of the park. I wasn't ready for her.
(51:13):
But you know, again, like you learn so muchin these sorts of situations. And a friend
of mine once said, it's like, you know, youjust gotta readjust your footing. You gotta
pivot, you gotta turn. And I'm like, you knowwhat? I'm very happy with the pivot and the
turn that I made. And I'm really happy in thebody that I'm in, the mindset that I'm in.
(51:34):
And I feel... way stronger than I ever did.That's fantastic. So if you're saying that
was an L at the time, because I lost myselfin these moments. But looking back, with fresh
set eyes, a new mindset, I'm going to call thatBut wait, can I still use an L? Yeah, go for
(51:54):
it. Because it's a lesson. There you go. Ittaught me so much. I went, honestly, I, we
were given one life. And we and we're givenso many curve balls and so many things. And
the ability, I felt it all, I lived it all,I did my best. And they were as much as like,
(52:20):
I can be like, ah, they were, they're lifelonglessons and they're only gonna make me better
and stronger. And that is what they've done.No, that's fair enough. I wanna ask you a question
I always ask everyone and I really love hearingthe response. If you could go back in time,
nothing will change about where you are now,who you are, who you got in your life and so
forth like that. But if you can go back to youryounger self, when would it be? And the reason
(52:47):
I say when it would be because this is meantto be around the worst you felt as in you was
at the lowest of the low. When would that timebe? And what would you say to yourself to help
yourself push through? Oh, wow. Wow.
(53:10):
You know, a lot of people really love theirearly 20s.
I was born and raised in a very, very crazyworld called showbiz. And...
(53:34):
And I...
self-doubt, love yourself, all of the things.And I would have given myself more of that.
all the way through. Do you think if you saidit like that to yourself, as eloquently if
(53:54):
you said it now, do you think you would haveheard it or would there have been another way
for you to have shown it, to explain it, toget the message all the way home? Well, Matt,
I first have to ask you, am I gonna have tolike send you money for this therapy session?
I mean, my god.
Wait, wait, go back to the question again. I'mcaught up in how much money I'm gonna have
(54:18):
to pay you for this. That's fine, I'll get mybank app details ready right now. So.
You've gone back in time. You met the youngerversion of yourself in your early 20s. You're
saying these nice, eloquent things to yourself.Are you gonna hear what you said? Are you gonna
receive what's being said or? No. How do youneed to present it in order for that version
(54:44):
of yourself to comprehend, to digest and marinateon what you said and take action? I am my father's
daughter, as they say. I am stubborn as a mule.So that teenager, that early 20s, even my 30s,
because I'm in my 40s now. I'm very stubborn,I'm very like, urgh. And I wouldn't listen
(55:13):
because I think that I would have, I've alwayshad that like, this is the path and this is
the journey. I wish I could hug her.
to just take a hold of her, two hands wrappedaround her and regardless of how much she pushes
(55:33):
away and screams and shouts and yells, you justhug her and just tell her those words to reaffirm
that she doesn't need to have self doubt. Exactly.
And I think that's incredible. I think we'renot kind enough to ourselves as we should be.
(55:54):
And one of the most beautiful things that Ikind of noticed before, but didn't really appreciate
it a lot more until I had my own children is,we take on a lot of crap and we'll push through
and we'll push through and we're not kind toourselves. But when we hear our children talk
bad of themselves or say, I can't do this, Ican't do that, all of a sudden, and I'm sorry
(56:16):
if I'm making assumptions, folks, but if youdon't do such a business, but. I'd like to
think the majority of us that are that way inclinedtowards our children are is prick up and correct
the child and say, you can, you can do this.And we let them be kind to themselves because
we know how much of a miracle that child is,that living human breathing individual. And
(56:37):
we don't want to speak ill of themselves, butwe need to look at ourselves in the mirror.
And the words we use are not often kind. Andit's quite alarming. I think we need to be
kinder to ourselves. And I love the fact thatyou identified that you'd go back and you just
know you're stubborn, you wouldn't have takenit, but you understand the power of a hug.
(56:58):
You understand the power of saying positivewords of life into yourself. Out of curiosity,
just remind me again, what are the words you'dsay to yourself? What are the words I would
say to myself? Yeah. Now? Yeah, no, going backto then, what would you have said to her? Are
you hugging her? What are the words you're goingto say to her? Because they've escaped me.
(57:21):
I just remember the self-doubt. But what wouldyou say to her? I mean, I would continue to
tell her, just don't lose yourself. Don't forgetyou. Don't forget to be kind to you. You're
going to be kind to everyone, but don't forgetabout you.
Why is that so important?
(57:44):
I think that... For me, I think because of thecareer that I had, it's always been people
pleasing and so projecting forward of like,ah, it's great and it's wonderful. It's this,
that you do, you get that, you project it somuch out that you don't leave enough for you,
(58:12):
you forget it. You're like, at the end you'reempty. So like. Why isn't there anything left
over for you for you to internalize, to feedyourself? And so that's where I think that
through so many years of giving and giving anddoing and giving and trying to be that very
(58:34):
best, that best girl in that show and perfectwhatever on stage and then the best businesswoman
that you, you know, for me, like I lost. LikeI gave too much and now for me, my cup's getting
refilled. And I know that I need to keep thatcup full. Doesn't have to be fully full, but
(59:00):
it's got to be adequate so that I'm taking careof myself, I'm giving love to myself. So I'm
being the best that I can for my daughter, formy husband, for my family. That's really good.
Consciousness of time. I'm going to ask youfor the next two minutes, pitch anything and
everything you've got, go on, be unapologeticwith it, be completely shameless with it. The
(59:25):
floor is yours, young lady. Well, I do havethis lovely platform called Busymumsy. B-I-Z-Z-I-M-U-M-Z-I.
Say it with me, Matt. Busymumsy! I don't thinkso.
I'm terribly British. I'm sorry. I don't dothat. I made it semi British for you. Mum's
(59:50):
a you know, I try I try Matt. It's fine. It'scatchy. I like it though. You know what? Right
now, please join the community. Join. Followus on Instagram, especially and Facebook and
on YouTube. I'm working on a project right nowthat sadly I can't talk nothing more about
it, but I'm working on a really innovative.exciting project that is all about Busy Mumsy.
(01:00:16):
And I hope to again sing it from the rooftopsvery soon. But right now, because I'm in the
very early feasibility rounds, that's all Ican talk about. That's fine. Anything else
you got going on? My daughter is back to school.I'm so happy for her because she loves school.
Congratulations. Listen to the podcast, pleasedownload the Busy Mumsy podcast. It's doing
(01:00:41):
awesome in the UK. I'm really stoked that it'sreally playing up there high on the ratings
under the kids and the family and the parentingpodcast for the UK. It's on a bunch of other
charts, but the UK was a big one for me becausethat's where I started it. Yeah, there's a
lot of great guests. They're not just... British,they're American and Canadian and Indian, and
(01:01:05):
they're from Uganda, and I've got guests fromKenya. They're global, and it's really cool
to connect with parents from all over the worldand hear how they navigate the itty-gritty
and all of the magical unicorns and the reallybad days with the coupled really good minutes.
(01:01:27):
And yeah. So that's really good. And it justmakes me freaking happy. I love working on
Busy Mumsy and I love that. I know that you'renot recording this, but like you can see up
there, Matt, like artwork. And like- Oh, that'sbeautiful. We're just making like, you know,
this is the Busy Mumsy office and my daughter'sa part of it. And I love that. For those of
(01:01:49):
you that didn't see that, there's some beautifulartwork on either side of a portrait of her
and her beautiful daughter. Yeah. And thesepictures are- Not a handcrafted one that your
child does at nursery, come home and you'reso gentle with it because it's delicate. She's
preserved it, she's framed them. Hats off toyou, you do better than I do. So well done
(01:02:13):
you. But I honestly thank you for your timetoday. Appreciate obviously the time differences,
something of a obstacle, but you perseveredand I'm so appreciative of it all. I'm grateful
that this is just another person who's ableto come on. and share what things look like
behind the curtains because at face value, youare a highly successful entrepreneur or serial
(01:02:38):
entrepreneur. And you've had successful careeras well and people can look at you and think,
yo, you're just copying W's the whole time.Not knowing that every successful person you're
gonna see has very challenging times that theyhave to overcome and persevere through. and
you've been so eloquent with it, so honest,and you owe me nothing for this conversation.
(01:03:00):
I'm absolutely, well, let me take that backbecause you offered me money. Actually, actually,
that was a, damn it, let me edit that out soI can get my money, damn it. Exactly, there
you go. But you owe me nothing for this conversationin terms of there's no reason for you to come
on and share what you shared, but I'm honestlygrateful for it so that other people can feel
(01:03:22):
less alone. to feel less isolated and you havingsomeone that comes around and looks after,
help your child, there's no shame in it. Mymom comes over and helps my babies. It's hard
raising twins and an older child. It's difficult.So as much as I didn't want to help, childcare
is a form of self care. There's no shame init at all. And it does take a village to raise
(01:03:45):
a child. No shame in it whatsoever. So I thankyou for coming on. I thank you for sharing.
And I hope that the listeners have enjoyed.hearing all this stuff, please go follow her.
I'm busy mumsy, two Zs, not Zs. Go find her.If not, I'm following already on Instagram.
And by the way, I don't really promote thismuch, but if you want exclusive content, I
do share quite a bit on my Instagram page. Everyold podcast, go find it wherever I'm there.
(01:04:11):
But yes, thank you very much for coming on andsharing all that you did. I hope and wish you
all the best and success in what you do goingforward. I hope to get you on for another episode
at some point. And Yeah, I hope listeners thatyou're just encouraged, you're motivated, and
you know that any time that you feel that you'renot quite there, you're not quite that unicorn
(01:04:32):
that you normally are, it's probably becauseyour cup's not where it should be. And you
should just take a step back, be kind to yourself,recharge your batteries, whatever that looks
like, whether it's booking a massage, I highlyrecommend that at least once a year. Get yourself
serviced, not like that, but go get yourselfserviced. And... Just get yourself in the right
(01:04:54):
frame of mind. You deserve to be treated betterthan your car, better than your phone, better
than all these things that you acquire for yourlife. Cause once you're gone, you ain't coming
back. There's no guarantee what things looklike in the other side of life, but imagine
you look back and you see how you mistreatedyourself or you allowed yourself to be mistreated.
I'm sure you wouldn't be proud of that. Or imaginethat's the life you're showing your family
(01:05:16):
and friends to live. We love you too much foryou to do that to yourself. So look after yourself
There's nothing about a caterpillar that takesgoing to be a butterfly. Look after yourself
and see you next episode.
Yeah, that wasn't fun, but it was another likeswift kick in the gut and sadly, but we had
to move on, right? So when you had that lossthat I really was not expecting, I was like,
wow, we got pregnant again and this is awesomebecause I really wanted to have baby number
two and how lucky are we? And then you get thrownthe language in the words of, oh, well, you
(00:25):
know, it happens a lot. You know. You'll justtry again and you're just like, wait a minute,
I'm losing my business. Now I'm losing a childand I, what? Huh? What is this? You know, you
try to figure out who to lean on, what to leanon. And luckily, my husband was someone that
(00:45):
I've always leaned on, but he travels a lot.So he wasn't physically there.
Welcome ladies and gentlemen, I'm your host,Mack Brown and you're listening to the EveryL
(01:08):
Podcast. Each episode we'll have a differentguest come on and talk about when life hangs
you in hell, is it really a loss or is it somethingelse? Because not every hell's a loss. So sit
back, relax and do what every guy do to getcomfortable as we get into this. Let's go!
(01:35):
Welcome everyone to another episode of Everyellpodcast where we have different guests come
on and talk about things that happen in thelife the way it didn't really want it to work
out. And that's because for many reasons, weplan things, we put things in place, we make
provisions, we take courses, we upscale ourselvesto make sure that when the right opportunity
comes along, plus the preparation we put inplace, those two should equal success or what
(02:00):
we want to happen. But life... just don't bedoing things like that. Life don't do two plus
two equals four. It's all about algebra anddecimals and fractions and all sorts. And that
we don't compute with all the time. So I'm reallyhonored and privileged to have different guests
come on and share their things that they maynot be too comfortable sharing in normal conversation,
(02:20):
but understand that there's a need, there'sa want, there's a desire. There's actually
a fundamental reason for sharing these storiesso people feel less alone. And today, and it
is cliche, because I say it every episode, Ihave a fantastic guest. And this person I haven't
known, I don't know that you were long to behonest with you. However, I did my due diligence.
I did a bit of research and wow, she's a littlebit more fantastic than I anticipated her being.
(02:44):
She's got a brilliant brand, the way she doesthings. Admittedly for me, it feels like how
I've kind of done my podcast. Now I've doneother things. It's kind of serves you first.
And then if other people jump on the bandwagon,they benefit them sound. That's great. But
you start, you start charity starts at home.Let's be frank. Um, and what she's created,
(03:06):
how she goes about her stuff is just brilliant.I love the fact that she's authentically herself.
She doesn't put on this persona. Okay. Her energyis completely all the way up, but that's because
she's American. That's mine. That's what I thinkanyway. But it's just, she's just the way she
is. She deliver things the way she does. Sheabsolutely loves where she's at, even though
(03:30):
there's things she strives to achieve and accomplishin her life, but she doesn't let her right
now define where she's trying to get to fromwhat I've seen and from what I've read up on
her. But I'm really excited to have this conversationwith her because she's such a, she's a person,
I guess, I never really thought I'd ever havecontact with, didn't even know someone like
this existed. but it makes sense that thesepeople do exist. But yeah, I have Ashley here.
(03:52):
I'm not gonna steal away from the intro becausethere are a lot of things I could have said,
but I want her to divulge what she feels comfortablesharing before we proceed into our first L.
Ashley, how are you doing? I'm like a magicalfreaking unicorn. I mean, I mean- Something
like that. Yeah, like. Yeah. It's hilarious.Thank you for so much for asking me to be on
(04:14):
your podcast. I am honored. Yeah, I just cameacross you. because I'm a mutual guest and
checked out your podcast. I'm like, okay, I'mnot the target audience. I get that, but. You're
a dad. You're my target audience. You are adad. Okay, there we go. I am a target audience.
(04:35):
And anyone else that's a dad, that might bea target audience as well. But I was just listening,
just hearing the frank conversations, the candidnessof it all. And I just find those conversations
refreshing just because it makes you feel thatpeople can be real and not always have to caveat
with saying, I love you, but I love this, butmy kids are amazing, but it's just lay out
(04:58):
the table. It is what it is. We're not judgingyou here. You just got to feel that level of
comfortable with an individual. You have a verygood skill in able to do that. And you're very
business savvy. So I love that about you becauseyou're able to help bring the business smarts
to the table as well as, yeah, don't worry ifyou're wearing sweatpants or whatever it is,
(05:20):
get comfy, as long as you come 100, I'm therewith you, I'm all right. And I feel that combination
of personality doesn't, it's always forthcomingand that can be detrimental to a lot of our
wellbeing because people feel like if they'regonna be professional in quotation marks, they
must also look professional. But if you're aparent, or you've got other stuff going on,
it's not always possible, but it doesn't necessarilytake away from you being professional and you
(05:45):
are definitely that. Well, you know, I thinkthat 2020 really taught us that life is freaking
messy, right? So, and all we have is like thenow. So it's like to project forward through
what everyone went through globally in 2020through a pandemic, to get on the other side
of it, it's like... We have to take ourselvesseriously. We don't have to take ourselves
(06:10):
seriously, but we have to show up. No matterhow that is, we have to show up. And now that
I'm in this new phase of my life, a new season,as I say with quotations, of being a mom, because
I had my daughter rape before the pandemic,I'm in this whole new realm of business, but
(06:30):
also with my daughter by my side and navigatingthe wild world of. crayons and paint and dirty
this and all of the things that you think thatyou should be able to win at on the daily and
yet you don't and that is okay. It has beenquite fun, quite devastating and here we are,
(06:52):
Matt, here we are. Definitely. Please introduceyourself to the wonderful folks listening who
may not have heard about you. I'm sure thatthere are a lot of people that are listening
to this podcast that have probably never heardof me and that is A-OK. My name is Ashley Verma.
I am American, that you could probably tellby my nasal accent and that is fine. I am originally
(07:16):
from Moundsville, West by God, Virginia. Itis a drive-through state. I'm not going to
ask you, Matt, if you have been to West Virginiabecause you probably have not. I have not.
You've probably been to New York. or Washington,D.C., somewhere fancy like that. But yeah,
no, not too many people are going to West Virginia.I was pretty much like, I was raised there,
(07:38):
but like I have like a very big dance background.So I started doing a lot of my dance training
and everything as a kid all the way up throughin New York City. So like New York kind of
became home for me. And then I moved there officiallywhen I was 19. Yeah, and I've just been kind
of on a trajectory of always Broadway musicals,performing as an actor, a singer, a dancer,
(08:03):
and got into fitness. What you were saying inthe intro that I was a business person, I was
like, am I? I've never really looked at myselfas a business person. I'm someone who is learning.
I'm learning a lot every day about business.I do think that I've gotten better at it. I'll
(08:25):
never say that I'm great at it because I thinkthat there's always room for improvement. But
when I was in New York in Broadway show, atthe time I had gotten into fitness as a side
hustle and then somehow magically became likea very well sought after trainer in New York
(08:45):
City. And when I met my husband, And he waslike, why would I like to go back to London?
I was like, well, I'll go back. I'll go to Londonwith you. Sure. Why not? Am I going to get
that funny accent? And he was like, no, you'renot going to get the accent. You get to keep
yours. So we jumped the pond and I, that waswhen I wanted to make this turn into business
(09:08):
and have my own business. And that is when Ikind of went on this path of no longer being
the Broadway performer and jumping from showto show and all of that. I was... known as
Ashley Verma, you know, celebrity fitness trainer,and she was the go-to bar expert. So I started
(09:29):
up in 2016 teaching all over London. I had contractswith Google, Sky TV, Third Space, Lorna Jane.
I taught everywhere. And then I grew my littleteam and I grew an army of a following that
kind of pushed me to open up my first ever bricksand mortar. I never like, I never thought it
(09:52):
would, I was going that way at the very beginningof it. And then once I realized like how much
people loved this workout, it was like, wow,this is really happening. And then 2018, I
opened my first bricks and mortar on a greatPortland street, right around the corner from
the BBC. And yeah, you know, when you get intobusiness, you... You go in with your guts,
(10:18):
right? Like you go in all in. And I was veryfortunate to have a partner who believed in
me and invested in me and a family that investedin me. And we opened up this beautiful little
boutique studio in the heart of central London.And it had heart, like it had such heart. And
(10:41):
when 2020 hit, Just like with everything, welost heart. We lost a lot of magic. We lost
a lot of things that no one ever expected tolose overnight. And before I knew it, I suffered
a rather big L and found myself in 2021 handingthe keys in because there was no way that we
(11:04):
could sustain keeping the door shut becausewe were in a lockdown for so long. and paying
astronomical bills that overhead. And it's notjust about the physical space, it's all the
things that go with it, with the electric, withthe water, with the gas, with the cleaning
(11:25):
and your staff. It's like, there's so much thatgoes into it that when that heart gets cut,
everything goes, right? Like everything bleeds,you can't control it. And I just watched it.
fall apart. And I, you know, when you look atsomething like that, and you go, gosh, like,
(11:46):
it's very dramatic. But when you invest in something,and you give your all and you give your, all
of your time, all of your energy, and then youput on top of it, you have staff that you worry
about their bills, their rent, their food ontheir table. That's a lot on your shoulders,
right? So when we looked at it, and I, I saidto my husband at the time, like even when we
(12:09):
went into this first lockdown, I had my daughterwith elected cesarean, and because I had envisioned
that I would be out of the hospital and pushingthat pram to define London on Great Portland
Street, and I would be doing all the admin workon day four post-baby, because that's just
what you do as a business person, right? AndI just had all of these things in my head that
(12:35):
I was going to be doing, and when it just camecrashing and burning down, I was locked in
the second bedroom and Adia was in a bouncybounce next to me and a computer was there
and I was just teaching, morning, noon, at night,just teaching. And we just, I would come out
of the room and I should not even have beenworking out. I wasn't even like doctors approved
(12:56):
to work out. And my husband would look at meand he's like, are you okay? I was like, it
doesn't matter right now. Like no one is okay.Like we're just like, we're trying to get through
this all while navigating this like wild worldof parenting. But that was the first time of
like with business that I did feel, I guessyou could say I did feel like a business person,
(13:20):
but losing, but losing it was like my firstloss in business. I've lost people, I've lost
my pillar, my dad, but like losing this trickleddown in such a way that... I think that we
really waited for a full year to really go,we should hand the keys in because we just
(13:45):
didn't wanna acknowledge, we didn't wanna acceptit. And when you lose like this, I think the
first set of denial, I think probably you'vehad other guests come on here and they talk
about denial of the loss. And I think that'slike the first thing that really comes forward
for me is that denial like, no, I didn't fail,I didn't. Like this didn't go completely demise
(14:09):
or whatever, but because I try, like I reallygenuinely gave it my all. And when you look
at it and you're like, gosh, I was in denialthat whole 2020 that I was gonna magically
fix this and go back to that magical unicornthat you were hyping me up to be Matt, you
(14:31):
know? But I'm... I wasn't that magical unicorncome 2021. I was going into my daughter's first
birthday. We were still on Zoom. We were allstill collectively moving with the virtual.
So Define moved to a virtual outlet and it wasbeautiful. Oh my God, I loved the community
(14:54):
and they were the heartbeat of it. They werelike the pulse that on the days that I thought.
there is no way in hell I can do this. I wouldopen the screen, press play, there everyone
was and they were like, what are we gonna do?And I would put Pitbull on or some sort of
Shakira nonsense and we would start moving andgrooving together and it was just medicine.
(15:18):
And so I think during that 2020 of denial, Iused all of that as the medicine. Like that
was the medicine to get through. And then when2021 came, it was like, we gotta talk for real
now. Like we got to really put on our big girlpants. And we tried to reopen the studio. And
(15:39):
the landlord was already like, well, you wereopen, you were closed. Like we got to figure
out this rent situation. And we were like, wehaven't been open to full capacity. Like we
went from, so the studio had a studio upstairsand downstairs, so you could fit 14 people
upstairs and 14 people downstairs. when yousocially distance, you drop to six. You can't
(16:04):
even go in the bathroom because it's too small.You can go in one at a time. So no one was
coming there pre-work. Well, wait a minute.There was no pre-work. People were working
from home. So why would they be coming intocentral London? We heavily relied on Arcadia
Group that housed 3,000 people that worked forTopshop. They had a corporate account. The
(16:29):
BBC at the time was 30% capacity, if that, whenwe came back out of COVID. It was like all
of these corporate accounts that we had andthis community that we had, just kind of like
they were showing up on virtual. Well, virtualpricing of $4.99 wasn't going to cut central
(16:51):
London rent. It was like a whole other thingthat happened. We just kind of like, I looked
at my husband, I was just like, I'm sorry, likeI have like, I don't know what else to do.
Like this is it. Like we're, we have to be done.And so we did. We stopped. And when you look
(17:21):
at something like that and you go, God, like,am I a failed business person now? Is my magical
unicorn self? no longer magical unicorn becauseI failed as a business person and I lost something.
I think after probably a lot of wine and maybesome tequila, I'm not going to lie, Matt, there
(17:44):
might have been some tequila in there. I hada lot of chats with my husband about it and
he, during all of the pandemonium of the upsand the downs of the business, he kept on going
you're still losing you and you used to be socreative and you used to have a spark of like
(18:05):
all this energy. Do something with Adia, mydaughter. And do something with her. Like do
mommy and me workouts, do something. He wasn'tlike trying to like get me out of the room
and be like, just go on. But like, just likeyou've always been creative. So just create
something. And... That was a big, big catapultand a shift and a turn to take something that
(18:32):
I love so much, where so much invested capital.When it's your money, it's one thing. When
it's other folk money, that sits very differently.that money was a family investment and I did
(18:53):
not take that lightly and I think that's probablyanother reason why I couldn't stop and I didn't
want to lose. And when I shifted a little bitof energy over to creating what is now busy
mumsy, it did give me a little bit of lightand a little bit of hope and like a different
switch to the mindset when I wasn't in panicmode of trying to figure out if... You know,
(19:19):
if my staff was going to stay, if they weregoing to stay to support, if they were going
to, you know, everyone has rent to pay. If Iwas going to even give them enough classes
to pay their rent, like that's, or are theylike, it got to the point where, well, why
would I actually, why I live here? So why wouldI come into the studio to teach one class?
(19:40):
Well, that's all I have to give. Well, it doesn'tmake financial sense. So if you can do it online,
I'll stay at home and teach from there. Andyou're just like, I have this beautiful studio
in central London and no one wants to come in.They wanna teach from home. Okay. So when I
started working and shifting over to this busymumsy concept, it really was a moment to create
(20:07):
and find an energy and a spark and really justfeel more connected to my daughter. And. Over
time, I mean, my husband, if he was sittingright here right now, he would say, yeah, it
took a big shift of positivity for me. And Ididn't feel like I was failing anyone because
(20:28):
it was just me and her. And we went on to createand it was so much fun. So we started a little
YouTube channel and that's fun. We have likea modest little following there and it's super,
super pretty and I love it. And when in 2021.after her first birthday, and we were already
like, this is, the studio is gonna have to cometo a halt. It's like, we're gonna have to like,
(20:53):
we need to start these conversations. I hadfallen pregnant again, which was very exciting.
And I ended up miscarrying at...
11, 12 weeks, 13, I had the DNC at 14 weeks.And yeah, that wasn't fun. But it was another
(21:21):
like swift kick in the gut. And sadly, and butwe had to move on, right? So when you when
you had that loss that I really was not expecting,I was like, wow, we got pregnant again. And
this is awesome, because I really wanted tohave baby number two. and how lucky are we?
And then you get thrown the language in thewords of, oh, well, you know, it happens a
(21:48):
lot. And you know, you'll just try again. Andyou're just like, wait a minute, I'm losing
my business. Now I'm losing a child. And I,what? Huh? What is this? And you know, you
try to figure out who to lean on, what to leanon. And luckily, You know, my husband was someone
(22:09):
that I've always leaned on, but he travels alot. He wasn't physically there. So, um, I,
I had this delicious little human named Adia,my little baby girl. And, um, I, we, we shifted
back into working on busy mumsy later on inthe year, like very much, um, later on in the
(22:31):
year, um, I was packing up to find. And I washaving a conversation with someone that said,
you should start a podcast. And I was like,huh, I should start a podcast. What? He's like,
well, you know, like you have a story. You'dlike to talk. Um, backhanded compliment. He
(22:54):
liked the talk. Yeah. Why not? Um, no, I, youknow, I, I know why you said it. He, he was
a former, um, radio host in America and he usedto work with Casey he now has his own marketing
company. And I was talking to him for freshideas on how to market the crazy worldwide
(23:16):
web of like trying to promote classes and teachingand like all that kind of stuff. And I just
like, and you know, he just came out of theblue with like, whatever happened to Busy Mumsie
and why aren't you doing a podcast and why don'tyou tell your story and get other people on
board? And I was like, That's not half thatidea, but yes, you are right. He did say you
(23:37):
do like to talk. Don't worry, I get it a lotmyself, it's fine. But listen, you also know
as the host, it's like when you're the host,you're like, you kind of keep like, you kind
of get trapped and you don't talk because youwant the guests to tell the story, right? And
then it's like, when do you chime in? It's like,what happened? So Matt, you can chime in at
(23:57):
any time. I'm actually liking. hearing it unravel,because you're a good storyteller. And it's
just, there is a lot that I'm thinking, oh mygosh, rein it in, there's a lot of questions
I wanna go through. But, and I'm afraid it'slike, they're gonna put you under pressure
for the listeners, more so me than anyone else.But because I'm hearing a couple of things
(24:21):
in there, I'm like, we definitely have to getyou on for a part too, because I just like
to give people that space, that time to talkabout. how they felt going through tough situations.
Well, you know what, Matt, I mean, to be honestwith you, I think I'm rather proud of myself
that I've not had a good old solid cry herewith you in the space of 20 minutes. When you
(24:47):
break stuff down, like anyone that's talkingabout loss, when you break it down and then
you really actually hear yourself talk aboutit, it's like, God, it's so deep rooted down
in there. And like... It's like, I'm not tryingto be like an emotional basket case, but like,
it's therapy in a way to get it out. And I always,I say this to even clients that go through
(25:11):
hard times when I'm in personal training sessionswith them and they're like, I'm having a really
shit day and I'm like, we'll try this. And it'simportant to talk. And it is. And like what
I was going to say about with Busy Mumsy, itwas like, I was talking to someone that didn't
really know that well, didn't really have afriendship with him. seen him on Zoom a couple
(25:32):
of times, and he's just like, start this, dothis. And I was like, gosh, like, maybe he
has something there. Like, maybe I should trybusy mumsy again. And honestly, when I did,
and I felt this, like, almost reassurance frommy daughter of like this glue back to magic,
(25:53):
of like what energy she can give me to makeme. I don't know if this is the right thing
to say, but feel better, be better, be moremindful, be kinder to myself. I mean, because
I'm sure within your podcast, you've met a lotof people that have gone through a lot of loss.
(26:15):
And the one thing that you do, A, you do thatdenial, but B, you can be so wretched to yourself.
You can really look at yourself in the mirror,but like not really look at you. You see this.
absolutely like grotesque form of yourself.And when you reflect back on it, you're like,
(26:38):
gosh, like, did anyone else see me like that?Or was that, would anyone else see that Halloween
costume I was wearing for a good year and ahalf, two years? Cause wow, she wasn't pretty.
She wasn't approachable. She was so lost.
(27:13):
Right? Like you, you do, you find yourself solost. And so like when, when I found Busy Mumsy
again, and was able to put pen to paper andwas able to put words to it, because before
it was more just about movement. It was likeeverything I did was defined, but like Adia
(27:34):
was in a bouncy bounce or Adia was crawlingon the floor or she was in my arms and we were
squatting and doing lunges. And This time itwas like, oh wow, it has movement, but it has
a voice and it has reason and it has purpose.And it was like for the first time in a very
long time of feeling in the trenches of lossthat I was feeling a little bit more stable
(28:02):
footing. And I mean, that's definitely whatyou wanna feel when you are coming on the other
side of loss. is that you are finding your feetagain. And, you know, I was really lucky that
my daughter was there. And like, she won't rememberthat. But she was so there. And she still has
(28:29):
been like, throughout this whole process ofbuilding Busy Mumsy from with the podcast,
and, you know,
Finally, I had launched the website in Octoberof 2022. That's now like a blog community and
(28:49):
has the podcast and it has workouts. I've shiftedthat heartbeat, that business of Define. I've
shifted it over to the, and I'm giving it forfree because to be able to give, when you build
a community and you feel like you really letthem down and you kind of like close it, Like
(29:12):
how do you give back? Like how do
you move forward? You give, right? So I hadall of this content and was like, let's just
put it on the platform. So every week I putup new free workouts and anyone can go to the
(29:32):
space, pick what you want. It's not going anywhere.It's always gonna be there. And it was there
for you to move, to inspire. to be happy. Yeah.You know, I'm gonna, I know we're quite deep
into the episode. Folks, if you don't know,there was a couple of L's that were thrown
(29:52):
at me. Given the way the conversation has gone,I'm gonna pick up on the loss of me because
the overwhelming theme I'm hearing from this,from the multitude of setbacks is- it took
a knock on you not being that unicorn that youso eloquently put it as. And I can only imagine
(30:18):
when you're backing yourself, you know, youdid dance way back when, you got yourself there,
you was on Broadway, you was making the most,you was traveling, and then you pivoted, did
something else. People were into backing you,you pitched a good pitch and you pitched it
so well. that people like family, cause let'sbe fair, strangers are willing to invest in
(30:40):
other people, cause if anything don't go theway it's meant to go, they can go ham on them,
feel no way. When it's family, you go to a familyreunion, you're trying not to bring that up
about money, but that's all that's on your mind.That's like topic one, two and three. You've
got nothing else after that, but you backedyourself. So to go into business and COVID
(31:01):
happened, nobody knew what this COVID thingwas. People's like, what's that a new drink?
I don't know what it's about, what you're about.and you're thinking, there was no SWOT analysis
for this, you know, strength, weakness, opportunity,threat, COVID, was never there, it wasn't on
anybody's. If you're a big corporation, cool,you can afford the PPE, you can afford this,
you just don't get a bonus that year. If you'rea small to medium sized business, what extra
(31:24):
money? I've got to eat beans on toast for the,sorry, what? I don't have the budget for that
and then you want me to pay for rent, you wantme to pay service charge, you want me to pay
all this other. Okay, how is this viable? Allof a sudden you suddenly got to get up to speed
with the internet, what is viable. Once upona time Skype was a thing, then people suddenly
(31:47):
were on Zoom and then you gotta think, oh Zoom,MS Teams, all this stuff. What, what's the
right thing for this business model if I'm gonnado it there? That's a lot to take on board.
And the same way, and I'm assuming here, soplease correct me, when you created your business
case for that original investment for Define,You took your time, you did your research,
(32:08):
you had everything there, you knew what to investyour time and energy in because you'd already
researched the landscape, the field of expertisethat you was going into. This is now, right,
I need to do this yesterday and you're panickingbecause, I don't know if you're anything like
me, everybody that was on the news, and I triednot to watch the news, but it was something
new, right? People sneeze and they'll die. Likewhat, sorry, excuse me. I just brought a child
(32:32):
into this world. what is this I brought theminto? It will pass because, you know, things
like this don't last very long. One week, twoweeks, three weeks, all right, you're taking
a mick now. Like what, what is that? Even thoughI buried my head in the sand cause it's good
for my mental health, the banks ain't buryingtheir head in the sand. They're still sending
me bills. All these other people are still sendingme bills because they're not burying their
(32:53):
head in the sand. They want to get paid. YetI am being nice, but you guys aren't reciprocating
that. So I need to start charging and you haveto change things up. Having a child is a massive,
massive life event. And I can only imagine asthe person who was the vehicle for carrying
said child, your hormones would have been allover the place going through what you went
(33:15):
through. And again, it's your baby, you know,not just a physical baby, but also you've got
your business. What do I do? Am I doing a goodenough job? I don't know if you had the same
thoughts for me, like what world have I broughtthis child into? You then go through miscarriage,
which is... I'm not experienced it personally,however, one in four people have miscarriage,
(33:37):
which is not nice to hear in any way, shapeor form. And that's why I try and correct people
when they say, I just want a normal pregnancy,you don't want a normal pregnancy because what
you think normal is in quotation marks is alot of bumps and hiccups along the way. It's
not what you think is, it's not a matter ofyou go to the hospital, sneeze the babies out.
It's not that, that is that, that's a unicornmoment right there. But you've gone through
(34:01):
all this stuff. you've then again pivoted, soyou pivoted from dance to define, to online,
to busy mumsy, and you did this. And it is easyfor me to understand how you can lose your
identity, lose yourself within this, becauseyou're there for other people. And I just,
(34:28):
I need to understand, when did you first feellike you're, you were slipping away from recognizing
who was facing you in the mirror. Um, uh, youknow, I've never really said this before. Um,
so we, when we pivoted to virtual, I've alwaysdid like the personal training and then, um,
(34:51):
there were group classes. So we were runningabout, we started out with like 20, then we
went up to, I think the most we ever did waslike 36 virtual classes a week on the platform.
but I was doing predominantly all of the personaltraining. And I had just had my daughter four
weeks prior, we went into this lockdown andwe started this online platform. And I'm in
(35:12):
this foreign body, and back to the hormones,foreign body, I'm getting on Zoom and I am
waking up at five in the morning to teach, butbefore that, as you know, with kids, it's like
you're up all night, right? With a newborn.Yeah. And this whole... catastrophic thing
(35:33):
has happened in the pandemic. And I am teachingall of these clients, these personal training
clients, one after another, after another, afteranother. And I'm not kidding you when I say
there were days where I would be in a room fromfive in the morning until 5 p.m., 6 p.m. I
(35:55):
would teach for nine hours, 10 hours, one toone, back to back. back to back with the baby.
And I would come out of it not in the senseof like group fitness and personal training.
It's fulfilling because you are, you're helpingsomeone. And I love that. It's, it's, it even,
(36:16):
it lends itself to performing. You perform onstage so you can take someone away for two
and a half hours and tell them a story to sing,to dance, to move, to all of that magic. When
I was trapped in this room, and I say trappedbecause that's what it felt like, I was in
this room, in this tiny little space, and Adia,this new foreign thing, I've only known for
(36:41):
like six weeks, is there and she needs me andshe loves me. And I am trying to not only give
to her, but give to every freaking person thatwas zooming in. I came out of there angry.
because no one cared how I was feeling. Becauseall they wanted was me to coach them, to make
(37:08):
them feel better, to make them feel like theylook amazing and yet, like all of those things
that the personal trainer is meant to do. AndI literally in that journey, there were specific
clients that I am so glad that I actually donot train anymore because they... literally
(37:28):
sucked the life out of me. And that's when Ilost myself. That was when it had nothing to
do with Adia. It had nothing to do with my husband.It had nothing to do with my close-knit family
that I love that supported me. But because Ihad to give so much, because all I could think
about was this amount of money that was owedto keep this business. And I had to do this.
(37:57):
that when I walked out of there, I was justlike, I've lost, like I've lost me. Like I
don't, like there's no joy. Like teaching forme was performing to me and that was joy. None
of that was joy. That's a shame to hear. ThankGod they paid me money, Matt. Thank God they
paid me money. Well, that's good. I'm gonnasay I'm gonna be a bit graphic here, but it's
(38:20):
my podcast or whatever, right? So for thosepeople that may not understand and I'm gonna
make an assumption here. You're in this foreignbody. What people may not understand, you have
a look at her, she's very well kept in termsof you do exercise, you look after yourself,
you eat healthy and whatnot, right? So if you'vethen had a baby, your body's gonna be a little
bit more bigger than you used to. Your jointshave had to change because of carrying said
(38:46):
baby. And all of a sudden you're leaking fromnew places. You know, these are things that,
oh, what now? And now you've got to think aboutprepping for them. whether you're expressing,
whether you're breastfeeding, whether you'reusing formula, that's prep work that you never
used to do. So it's a very, it's a culture shock.And then when you still got people treating
(39:08):
you the same way, it kind of makes you feellike, oh, I'm just a number to you. I'm just
an object to you. And if your hormones are ragingthe way they could be raging or could have
been raging, I kind of get that. What was theturning point for you in order to no longer
feel that way?
(39:32):
You know, I mean, there's not one specific it.When, when my husband would come back to London
from Uganda, because that's where his businessis. And that's where I currently sit. He was
not seeing the person he married. So I thinkthat was a big turning point. And I would say
(39:59):
that it had nothing to do with aesthetic. Itjust wasn't me. I wasn't magical. I wasn't
fun.
(40:26):
Is it the fact that the burdens of expectationsfrom all these different things were weighing
you down? So normally where you're a high flyer,you're a dreamer, you're like a hot air balloon,
all of a sudden you're not taking off becauseof these things holding you down. You know
what, like, I think that you could also lookat this from a sense of like, oh, well, her
ego got knocked. It wasn't even ego. Like I'vegot broad shoulders. Like I can handle a lot
(40:52):
of shit. Like I'm good, but like. This was froma place of like, you can only give so much.
Like your cup can only runneth over. Your cupcan only be so full or so empty and all of
the things. And when he came home and he wasjust like, whoa, I was like, I just like, I
(41:15):
can't. Like I can't give anymore because noone cares. No one cares how I am getting through
this at this point, because I just felt likeI had just been like a punching bag, every
(41:36):
like, like a hamster wheel, like you're on thehamster wheel every day during that time that
like, when he came back, he was just like, youneed to slow down. I was like, well, I can't,
unless we have to get rid of this, because it'scrushed me. While he was away, Who was your
support group? My daughter. Outside of her,who could you have adult conversation with
(42:04):
and share your burdens? Yeah, you'll love thisone. I had, and not to say this as privileged,
but it will come across privileged. I had helpcome to my house on Monday, Tuesday and Friday.
And those three days was when I had Rowena,my super nanny. And she would come in on those
(42:24):
three days. And those were the three days Ihad childcare. And I would be in my room without
Adia. But did you have anyone you could talkto? I had my mom in Ameri- in Florida and my
brother in Virginia. But no one that was intouching distance. You know, I've, you know,
(42:45):
friendships are interesting. I think this isa whole other podcast in itself as well. I
will say that. Friendships are interesting.And I've always felt that when it comes to
friendship, like I have my people and I've alwaysheld them close to me. But as we get older,
(43:07):
we lose friends, right? We kind of like friendshipsebb and they flow. And when I moved to London,
it was not easy. And I don't know if you'veheard this before from expats, but like when
you move to London, it's not the easiest placeto move to. And if you... are not going to
school, you're in an adult ville and you'retrying to make that happen. I was so focused
(43:31):
on business that I, to me, like, oh, I needto go out to meet friends. That wasn't a high
priority to me. Mine was like, my husband'shere, he's creating business, I'm here, I'm
going to create business. So I met wonderful,incredible humans through teaching and they
became friends. But I, and this could be a hugefault of mine and you can judge me for this
(43:59):
and that is fine too. But when it comes to friendships,when I was building this business, I stayed
very at arm's length with everyone. And I didthat because I didn't wanna screw up. So when
I moved to London, I have closer friends inLondon now that I no longer have the business.
(44:25):
And I'm here in Uganda. And I know I get tovisit them and see them when I'm back in London.
They're closer. I feel like I'm closer withthem now, if that makes sense, because I'm
not worried about this thing that I had to takeall these boxes. And I was going to ask is
it because you're worried about being distractedfrom not achieving that goal or reimbursing
(44:50):
investment that was originally afforded to you?Yeah, I think it was a little bit of everything.
I think that you go into it and you're justlike, well, I think you also question too,
well, do they want to be my friend because theywant free class? Yeah. well, if they're all
my friends, then I have to give them all freeclass. Like, you know what I mean? Like you
(45:13):
can think all sorts of weird and wonderful ways.I just felt so like arms length. And maybe
that's just me. Maybe that's like a new partof my life. And this was pre-baby that when
I moved there, I was very guarded and I don'tknow. I really don't know. But I do know now
(45:35):
that I'm on the other side of it. there is thisincredible human being, her name's Neve. And
I mean, she was probably one of my first everclasses that I ever taught in London. And the
same goes for this gal named Bex. And like,we check in on each other all the time. And
(45:57):
like, I feel so close to them now that I nolonger really, that I don't have that Brickson
Moir and that defined doesn't define me. Andlike the one thing that my husband did say
to me when we finally were like, we're doneand you're out. And I like handed the keys
and everything. He's like, remember these wallsdo not define you. You just don't like go beyond
(46:19):
it. And I feel like ever since I did walk outof it, I have felt way more grounded and way
more connected to people and also doing stuffthat serves me. not for this bank account to
(46:42):
pay into because this burden, this money wasthere from family. So with all that's been
said and done, did you react in a negative wayat all during these challenging times? To myself,
yes. To my husband, yes. May also manifest themselvesbecause I know that I have some traits that
(47:08):
are... For me, I accept them as they are. Forthose that I love around me, not too pleasant.
I mean, my husband has seen my face all shadesof red. Like I mean, he, I have kicked and
screamed and said everything under the sun andhe's my backbone. So why wouldn't he hear it?
(47:34):
I mean... True. He's my number one. My mother,my number two is my mom. So she's really far
away. So it's, you know, it, it's a toss upbetween the two. Um, business wasn't smooth
pre baby, but it was business hiccups, right?Like business things are like, oh, we're gonna
(47:56):
have to cut these towels because they're tooexpensive. I mean, like that champagne problems,
whatever. But like, when it's spiraling outof a control that you can't control and you
never imagined, yeah, it's going to bring upa real gnarly side to you. And that's really
going back to when he came back from Ugandaand he looked at me, he's like, you are like,
(48:19):
who are you? Like, we got to come up with agame plan. And rightfully so we did. And I've
gotten on the other side of it. I'm like, Thereally amazing thing out of everything that
I have said, I will have to say and expresshow I feel that it was a successful business.
(48:44):
I did a damn good job. I look at it and I'mlike, holy hell, Jordan Dunn came three times
a week. I trained her and adore her to piecesand is still a friend. We had these incredible
collaborations. My first big contract in centralLondon was with Google. Like, I am not gonna
(49:08):
take that, those shiny things away because thoseshiny things were like epic and they were huge
milestones that a lot of people will take yearsto get. So I won't take that away from it,
but damn did it get hard. And was it ever theright move? to cut it when we did and it was
(49:31):
the right move. And to now be on the other side,to build a brand that's my full heart and my
daughter. And it's just the two of us. I'm like,I'm all in. And for me, I'm working on an exciting
project with In Busy Mumsy. And I hope to oneday sing from the rooftops once I get it perfected.
(50:00):
Yeah, it's crazy, but loss to wrap that up ofthis whole story of the loss for me of losing
that business really taught me so much. On theother side of it, hands down, made me way,
(50:21):
way better mom, business owner, business developerand a wife. What about? the loss of losing
yourself, your identity. What did you gain fromthat, if anything? She's getting better. She's
getting better. She's not perfect. That's forsure. But for me, I learned so much about myself
(50:45):
and I continue to learn so much about myselfon the daily. And that loss was a huge lesson.
And it's a loss that I'm not ashamed of by nostretch. And like I said, a lot of highs, a
lot of highs. I just wasn't ready to. to knockCOVID out of the park. I wasn't ready for her.
(51:13):
But you know, again, like you learn so muchin these sorts of situations. And a friend
of mine once said, it's like, you know, youjust gotta readjust your footing. You gotta
pivot, you gotta turn. And I'm like, you knowwhat? I'm very happy with the pivot and the
turn that I made. And I'm really happy in thebody that I'm in, the mindset that I'm in.
(51:34):
And I feel... way stronger than I ever did.That's fantastic. So if you're saying that
was an L at the time, because I lost myselfin these moments. But looking back, with fresh
set eyes, a new mindset, I'm going to call thatBut wait, can I still use an L? Yeah, go for
(51:54):
it. Because it's a lesson. There you go. Ittaught me so much. I went, honestly, I, we
were given one life. And we and we're givenso many curve balls and so many things. And
the ability, I felt it all, I lived it all,I did my best. And they were as much as like,
(52:20):
I can be like, ah, they were, they're lifelonglessons and they're only gonna make me better
and stronger. And that is what they've done.No, that's fair enough. I wanna ask you a question
I always ask everyone and I really love hearingthe response. If you could go back in time,
nothing will change about where you are now,who you are, who you got in your life and so
forth like that. But if you can go back to youryounger self, when would it be? And the reason
(52:47):
I say when it would be because this is meantto be around the worst you felt as in you was
at the lowest of the low. When would that timebe? And what would you say to yourself to help
yourself push through? Oh, wow. Wow.
(53:10):
You know, a lot of people really love theirearly 20s.
I was born and raised in a very, very crazyworld called showbiz. And...
(53:34):
And I...
self-doubt, love yourself, all of the things.And I would have given myself more of that.
all the way through. Do you think if you saidit like that to yourself, as eloquently if
(53:54):
you said it now, do you think you would haveheard it or would there have been another way
for you to have shown it, to explain it, toget the message all the way home? Well, Matt,
I first have to ask you, am I gonna have tolike send you money for this therapy session?
I mean, my god.
Wait, wait, go back to the question again. I'mcaught up in how much money I'm gonna have
(54:18):
to pay you for this. That's fine, I'll get mybank app details ready right now. So.
You've gone back in time. You met the youngerversion of yourself in your early 20s. You're
saying these nice, eloquent things to yourself.Are you gonna hear what you said? Are you gonna
receive what's being said or? No. How do youneed to present it in order for that version
(54:44):
of yourself to comprehend, to digest and marinateon what you said and take action? I am my father's
daughter, as they say. I am stubborn as a mule.So that teenager, that early 20s, even my 30s,
because I'm in my 40s now. I'm very stubborn,I'm very like, urgh. And I wouldn't listen
(55:13):
because I think that I would have, I've alwayshad that like, this is the path and this is
the journey. I wish I could hug her.
to just take a hold of her, two hands wrappedaround her and regardless of how much she pushes
(55:33):
away and screams and shouts and yells, you justhug her and just tell her those words to reaffirm
that she doesn't need to have self doubt. Exactly.
And I think that's incredible. I think we'renot kind enough to ourselves as we should be.
(55:54):
And one of the most beautiful things that Ikind of noticed before, but didn't really appreciate
it a lot more until I had my own children is,we take on a lot of crap and we'll push through
and we'll push through and we're not kind toourselves. But when we hear our children talk
bad of themselves or say, I can't do this, Ican't do that, all of a sudden, and I'm sorry
(56:16):
if I'm making assumptions, folks, but if youdon't do such a business, but. I'd like to
think the majority of us that are that way inclinedtowards our children are is prick up and correct
the child and say, you can, you can do this.And we let them be kind to themselves because
we know how much of a miracle that child is,that living human breathing individual. And
(56:37):
we don't want to speak ill of themselves, butwe need to look at ourselves in the mirror.
And the words we use are not often kind. Andit's quite alarming. I think we need to be
kinder to ourselves. And I love the fact thatyou identified that you'd go back and you just
know you're stubborn, you wouldn't have takenit, but you understand the power of a hug.
(56:58):
You understand the power of saying positivewords of life into yourself. Out of curiosity,
just remind me again, what are the words you'dsay to yourself? What are the words I would
say to myself? Yeah. Now? Yeah, no, going backto then, what would you have said to her? Are
you hugging her? What are the words you're goingto say to her? Because they've escaped me.
(57:21):
I just remember the self-doubt. But what wouldyou say to her? I mean, I would continue to
tell her, just don't lose yourself. Don't forgetyou. Don't forget to be kind to you. You're
going to be kind to everyone, but don't forgetabout you.
Why is that so important?
(57:44):
I think that... For me, I think because of thecareer that I had, it's always been people
pleasing and so projecting forward of like,ah, it's great and it's wonderful. It's this,
that you do, you get that, you project it somuch out that you don't leave enough for you,
(58:12):
you forget it. You're like, at the end you'reempty. So like. Why isn't there anything left
over for you for you to internalize, to feedyourself? And so that's where I think that
through so many years of giving and giving anddoing and giving and trying to be that very
(58:34):
best, that best girl in that show and perfectwhatever on stage and then the best businesswoman
that you, you know, for me, like I lost. LikeI gave too much and now for me, my cup's getting
refilled. And I know that I need to keep thatcup full. Doesn't have to be fully full, but
(59:00):
it's got to be adequate so that I'm taking careof myself, I'm giving love to myself. So I'm
being the best that I can for my daughter, formy husband, for my family. That's really good.
Consciousness of time. I'm going to ask youfor the next two minutes, pitch anything and
everything you've got, go on, be unapologeticwith it, be completely shameless with it. The
(59:25):
floor is yours, young lady. Well, I do havethis lovely platform called Busymumsy. B-I-Z-Z-I-M-U-M-Z-I.
Say it with me, Matt. Busymumsy! I don't thinkso.
I'm terribly British. I'm sorry. I don't dothat. I made it semi British for you. Mum's
(59:50):
a you know, I try I try Matt. It's fine. It'scatchy. I like it though. You know what? Right
now, please join the community. Join. Followus on Instagram, especially and Facebook and
on YouTube. I'm working on a project right nowthat sadly I can't talk nothing more about
it, but I'm working on a really innovative.exciting project that is all about Busy Mumsy.
(01:00:16):
And I hope to again sing it from the rooftopsvery soon. But right now, because I'm in the
very early feasibility rounds, that's all Ican talk about. That's fine. Anything else
you got going on? My daughter is back to school.I'm so happy for her because she loves school.
Congratulations. Listen to the podcast, pleasedownload the Busy Mumsy podcast. It's doing
(01:00:41):
awesome in the UK. I'm really stoked that it'sreally playing up there high on the ratings
under the kids and the family and the parentingpodcast for the UK. It's on a bunch of other
charts, but the UK was a big one for me becausethat's where I started it. Yeah, there's a
lot of great guests. They're not just... British,they're American and Canadian and Indian, and
(01:01:05):
they're from Uganda, and I've got guests fromKenya. They're global, and it's really cool
to connect with parents from all over the worldand hear how they navigate the itty-gritty
and all of the magical unicorns and the reallybad days with the coupled really good minutes.
(01:01:27):
And yeah. So that's really good. And it justmakes me freaking happy. I love working on
Busy Mumsy and I love that. I know that you'renot recording this, but like you can see up
there, Matt, like artwork. And like- Oh, that'sbeautiful. We're just making like, you know,
this is the Busy Mumsy office and my daughter'sa part of it. And I love that. For those of
(01:01:49):
you that didn't see that, there's some beautifulartwork on either side of a portrait of her
and her beautiful daughter. Yeah. And thesepictures are- Not a handcrafted one that your
child does at nursery, come home and you'reso gentle with it because it's delicate. She's
preserved it, she's framed them. Hats off toyou, you do better than I do. So well done
(01:02:13):
you. But I honestly thank you for your timetoday. Appreciate obviously the time differences,
something of a obstacle, but you perseveredand I'm so appreciative of it all. I'm grateful
that this is just another person who's ableto come on. and share what things look like
behind the curtains because at face value, youare a highly successful entrepreneur or serial
(01:02:38):
entrepreneur. And you've had successful careeras well and people can look at you and think,
yo, you're just copying W's the whole time.Not knowing that every successful person you're
gonna see has very challenging times that theyhave to overcome and persevere through. and
you've been so eloquent with it, so honest,and you owe me nothing for this conversation.
(01:03:00):
I'm absolutely, well, let me take that backbecause you offered me money. Actually, actually,
that was a, damn it, let me edit that out soI can get my money, damn it. Exactly, there
you go. But you owe me nothing for this conversationin terms of there's no reason for you to come
on and share what you shared, but I'm honestlygrateful for it so that other people can feel
(01:03:22):
less alone. to feel less isolated and you havingsomeone that comes around and looks after,
help your child, there's no shame in it. Mymom comes over and helps my babies. It's hard
raising twins and an older child. It's difficult.So as much as I didn't want to help, childcare
is a form of self care. There's no shame init at all. And it does take a village to raise
(01:03:45):
a child. No shame in it whatsoever. So I thankyou for coming on. I thank you for sharing.
And I hope that the listeners have enjoyed.hearing all this stuff, please go follow her.
I'm busy mumsy, two Zs, not Zs. Go find her.If not, I'm following already on Instagram.
And by the way, I don't really promote thismuch, but if you want exclusive content, I
do share quite a bit on my Instagram page. Everyold podcast, go find it wherever I'm there.
(01:04:11):
But yes, thank you very much for coming on andsharing all that you did. I hope and wish you
all the best and success in what you do goingforward. I hope to get you on for another episode
at some point. And Yeah, I hope listeners thatyou're just encouraged, you're motivated, and
you know that any time that you feel that you'renot quite there, you're not quite that unicorn
(01:04:32):
that you normally are, it's probably becauseyour cup's not where it should be. And you
should just take a step back, be kind to yourself,recharge your batteries, whatever that looks
like, whether it's booking a massage, I highlyrecommend that at least once a year. Get yourself
serviced, not like that, but go get yourselfserviced. And... Just get yourself in the right
(01:04:54):
frame of mind. You deserve to be treated betterthan your car, better than your phone, better
than all these things that you acquire for yourlife. Cause once you're gone, you ain't coming
back. There's no guarantee what things looklike in the other side of life, but imagine
you look back and you see how you mistreatedyourself or you allowed yourself to be mistreated.
I'm sure you wouldn't be proud of that. Or imaginethat's the life you're showing your family
(01:05:16):
and friends to live. We love you too much foryou to do that to yourself. So look after yourself
There's nothing about a caterpillar that takesgoing to be a butterfly. Look after yourself
and see you next episode.
Popular Podcasts
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Therapy Gecko
An unlicensed lizard psychologist travels the universe talking to strangers about absolutely nothing. TO CALL THE GECKO: follow me on https://www.twitch.tv/lyleforever to get a notification for when I am taking calls. I am usually live Mondays, Wednesdays, and Fridays but lately a lot of other times too. I am a gecko.