Contract bargaining updates

On this week’s episode, NALC President Brian L. Renfroe and Assistant to the President Ed Morgan discuss ongoing contract negotiations and answer questions from the mailbag.

Have questions you'd like answered on the podcast? Email [e-mail].

Podcast episodes with closed captioning are available on our YouTube channel. 

Keep up with NALC on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and Threads!

Episode Transcript

(00:10):
Sisters and friends and welcome to theYou Are the Current Resident podcast.
This is the official podcast of the
National Association of Letter Carriers,the union that represents 280,000 active
and retired city letter carriers employedby the United States Postal Service.
My name is Ed Morgan andI'll be your host this week.

(00:30):
Sitting next to me is our NationalPresident, Brian Renfroe.
Hey Brian, how are you this week?
Eddie, I'm doing great,glad to have you with me.
On last week's episode, I talked about
that it wouldn't just bemy voice going forward.
So we're excited that you're here.
Thanks, appreciate that.
So I saw you're on the road thisweek, can you tell me where you were?

(00:53):
Yeah, I had an opportunity togo down to Houston, Texas.
Our Texas State Association held their
state conventionand I was able to go down and address them
and answer a lot of questions and theyhad several hundred in attendance.
It's a big state and was really impressedand encouraged by everything they did

(01:15):
there, handling business andeducation and really active group.
And those folks are, I hope,left as energized as I did.
Soit's always great to be with the members
and certainly enjoyed being with ourbrothers and sisters down in Texas.
Terrific.

(01:36):
Just to tell you a little bit aboutmyself, I've been on the letter carrier
staff, lucky to be on the lettercarrier staff, since 2016.
I'm originally from Philadelphia.
Carrier from branch one five seven.
The Middle City Post Office.
Keep my route warm for me, fellas.
Currently working on the Leadership
Academy, some of the new social mediablurbs that you might have seen and some

(02:00):
interesting projects thatare coming up in the future.
Eddie, we're really happyto have you doing this.
Ed's done a great job and certainly withthe Leadership Academy, but also here more
recently with what we'redoing on social media.
Hope for our folks out there, our membersthat are participating in social media,
which I would guess most of you do ifyou're listening to this podcast, that

(02:21):
you've enjoyed some of the new content andthe creative videos and we intend to keep
that going forward and Eddie's done agreat job in being involved in that.
So we're happy to have you on the podcast.
Thank you.
So today we're going to talk about
collective bargaining, which ishow NALC negotiates with the USPS.
I sat down earlier this week and came up

(02:42):
with some questions thatour members might have had.
If I didn't ask your question during this
timem, you always can reach usthrough our Ask a Mailbag segment.
You can submit your questions by emailing
us at [e-mail]. So can youexplain how collective bargaining works?

(03:02):
Sure.
So let's start with theterm collective bargaining.
And it's a broad term that
covers anytime you have a union and youhave an employer and you negotiate an
agreement that applies to a lot ofdifferent facets of the employees that the
union represents a lot of facets of theirwork life, including work rules and their

(03:25):
compensation, their benefitsand all those type things.
And for us, collective bargaining operatesa little bit differently than it does for
a lot of our brothers and sisterunions in the private sector.
And I'm sure we'll get into a little more
detail here in a few minutes aboutexactly how that process works.
But essentially

(03:47):
every few years, we sit down withthe Postal Service and we attempt to
negotiate an agreement, and there areprovisions in the law that are in place in
the event we're not able toreach a negotiated agreement.
In our case, if we do reach a tentative
agreement with them, we have a process inour Constitution where that agreement is

(04:08):
mailed out to every oneof our active members.
Those are the members that that agreement
would impact, where they have theopportunity to vote in ratification as to
whether they want to acceptthat agreement or not.
So in a nutshell,
it's a little more complicatedthan what it sounds to begin with.
But generally speaking, it's a process

(04:29):
where we sit down with them and negotiateover work rules and pay and benefits and
all types of other things thataffect letter carriers every day.
And for those of our newer listeners or
new members, how long havewe had collective bargaining?
in some form or fashion,we've had it since 1962.
So I'll do a brief history here.

(04:52):
Our union was founded in 1889.
The Postal Service, of course, was founded
long before that, back in the 1700s,and for the first roughly
70 or so years, I guess73 years of our union's existence,

(05:14):
our representation was pretty much limitedto what we were able to advocate for on
Capitol Hill and other forumsthat affected our members.
And back then, the Post Office, as it was
known, was called thePost Office Department.
It was a full-fledged government agency,just like now, for example, the Department

(05:37):
of Labor is an example or any of the otherfull-fledged government agencies.
In 1962, however, then President John F.
Kennedy, yes, that JFK, signed an
executive order, and that executive ordergave us the right to bargain over certain

(05:57):
topics, and they were all whatwe called non-economic issues.
So we had the pretty limited collective
bargaining rights beginning in 1962,where we got the ability to negotiate over
things like work hoursand stuff like that.
When it comes to economic issues, which
includes pay, it includes fringe benefits,really anything that involves money

(06:22):
that is part of the compensationfor letter carriers.
That stuff was still atthe time set by Congress.
So whenyou have to lobby Congress for something
like a pay increase, thatbecomes very difficult.
So fast forward a little bit.
Eight years later,letter carriers went out on an illegal

(06:46):
wildcat strike that began in New York Cityin Branch 36 and at the time a rank-and-
file letter carrier by the name of VinceSombrotto, who would go on to become the
NALC's greatest President at thenational level, led this strike.
And the reasons for the strike wereinadequate pay,

(07:08):
very poor working conditions and the paywas a result of, as we're all familiar
with today, it was the same backthen, inaction of Congress.
So part of the ask in the strike and whatletter carriers and then eventually other
postal employees walked off the job forwas for full collective bargaining rights.
So in 1970, this strike started in March.

(07:32):
The initial agreement in Aprilinvolved an agreement by the President and
by Congress to give lettercarriers an initial wage increase.
And that was something like 6% retroactiveback to 1969 and then they also had an

(07:52):
additional 8% increase that was contingenton legislation that was in the works as a
result of the strike toreform the Postal Service.
So in August of 1970, Congress passed a
law and then President Nixon signed itinto law called the Postal Reorganization
Act, which did a lot of things, but as faras collective bargaining, it gave

(08:15):
the postal employees and in our case theNALC and City letter carriers full
collective bargainingrights that we have today.
So since 1970 we have enjoyed fullcollective bargaining rights and including
a resolution process in the event thatwe're unable to reach an agreement.
And I'm sure we'll get into alittle more detail on that.

(08:37):
Can you explain the difference between the
public sector like us andprivate sector negotiations?
Sure.
Well, one of the components of that law in1970 that gave us full collective
bargaining rights is what happens in theevent we're not able to reach agreement.
So let's first start with what generallyhappens in the private sector.

(08:58):
So in the private sector, ifan employer and a union fail to reach an
agreement, there's reallya couple of options there.
From the union's perspective, you have the
option to strike and try to force theemployer into agreeing with whatever your
position or your demands are innegotiations and for the employer,

(09:20):
sometimes they will chooseto lock employees out.
So in the private sector it'sessentially you go into bargaining.
The leverage that you have if you'rea union is the threat of a strike.
In the public sector it's much differentbecause it's controlled by law.
In our case, it is illegal forletter carriers to strike.

(09:43):
But what we have as
sort of in exchange for that when you lookback at the law in 1970, is a process
called interest arbitration which we'llget into a little more detail on that
resolves any disputes that theparties have in contract negotiation.
So in private sector bargaining you've gotfor profit companies that are private

(10:06):
businesses that arebargaining with unions.
In the public sector it's a little morecomplicated financial picture for the
employers, typically, whether that'sbargaining with what we had pre-1970 in
the post office department and several ofour sister unions here
in America still bargain withfull-fledged government agencies.

(10:28):
And then also you have independentagencies of the government like
the Postal Service that we bargain withand their funding and things like that are
in a lot of cases very different thanwhat we see in the private sector.
And that's reflected in the laws that
govern the collective bargaining processfor those different types of agencies.

(10:50):
Who sets the agenda on our side?
So NALC is really in contrast tonot all, but a lot of other unions.
We are a very democratic union.
And that goes beyond just simple elections
of delegates to state and nationalconventions or elections of officers at

(11:11):
the branch level or the statelevel or the national level.
We have a long standing process whereevery other year when we have a national
convention, our branches and stateassociations have the opportunity to
submit resolutionsto the Executive Council that are
presented at each of thoseconventions and voted upon.

(11:33):
And a large number of those resolutionshave to do with collective bargaining.
So that is the first place that we go when
we look at things that wewant to bring to the table.
What happens at a convention when a
collective bargainingresolution is submitted?
The Executive Council will review it, willmake a recommendation

(11:54):
on just what the council's opinion is, andthen the delegates of the convention will
debate that resolution and then eventuallyeither approve or disapprove it.
Those resolutions that are approved becomeofficial bargaining positions of the NALC.
So it's a combination of those official
bargaining positions that comethrough that democratic process.

(12:19):
Certainly whatever may be taking place ata particular time you're bargaining that
are the challenges thatwe need to address.
We here at NALC headquarters and out in
our regional offices and allthe way down to the branches.
There's a lot of communication between our
members that are veryopen and active in terms of communicating

(12:45):
issues that could potentially beaddressed through collective bargaining.
So it's a combination ofa number of those things.
But ultimately our official positions are
set through that process ofresolutions at our convention.
But we also try to keep a very close ear
to the ground, so to speak, on issues thatare happening at any particular time that

(13:07):
may change our priorities, things that wemay need to address in whatever round of
bargaining we happento be in at that time.
Can you explain who ownsthe Postal Service?
Yeah.
This is also a contrast in the publicand private sector bargaining.
Private sector companies are typicallyowned by individuals or they become

(13:27):
publicly traded and areowned by stockholders.
In the Postal Service's case, it's an
independent agency ofthe federal government.
So technically it's ownedby the federal government.
Thus it's owned by the people, and it does
not receive tax dollars for operatingreasons, for operating purposes.
So its revenue from the sale ofstamps and postage is what funds it.

(13:54):
In a lot of ways it's owned by the people
of this country,but revenue-wise, it's not funded by the
people of this country, I thinkis the best way to explain it.
So now we're in interest arbitration.
Can you explain exactly what that is?Sure.
So interest arbitration is a process thatby law we and the Postal Service are

(14:16):
required to engage in in the event wereach what's called an impasse or an
inability to come to agreement ona collective bargaining agreement.
And this is a process that over the yearswe've used less than half the time.
We have negotiated 15
collective bargaining agreements withthe Postal Service.

(14:38):
I believe of those 15 collectivebargaining agreements we have,
six of them have been decidedby interest arbitration.
So what happens is if we are unable to
reach an agreement by the time ourexisting agreement expires so currently in
2023, our previous agreement thatbegan in 2019 expired on May the 20th.

(15:02):
By law, we have a 60-day period where weare required to report to the federal
mediation council and use a mediatorto try to resolve our disputes.
We comply with the law,
but just frankly speaking, mediationhas not been successful in history.

(15:25):
So then we proceed to a process calledinterest arbitration
where it's essentially a hearingas well as written evidence that both
parties submit and ultimatelya decision is made.
And I'm sure we can get intoa little more detail on that.
Sure.Great.
So, like what happens atan interest arbitration?

(15:47):
Yeah.So each party goes forward,
the Postal Service willhave their proposal.
Normally in interest arbitration, the
issues that are on the table are economicin nature, pay,
benefits, things that also have aneconomic impact on the Postal Service,

(16:07):
such as the structure of the workforce,those type of big-ticket economic items.
And each side will have their proposal ofwhat they believe they want to achieve.
And there's a three-personarbitration panel created.
The union NALC will have an arbitrator

(16:28):
that represents our interest,the Postal Service will have an arbitrator
that represents their interest,and then the parties will jointly agree on
a neutral arbitrator to chair thatthree-person arbitration panel.
In our most recent round of contractnegotiations back for the 2019 agreement,
we went through almost the entireprocess of interest arbitration.

(16:52):
Eventually reached an agreement prior tosend out for ratification, prior to
receiving an award, but arbitratorDennis Nolan was our neutral arbitrator.
Then what happens is to that three-person
panel, each side presents evidence tosupport what their proposals are for us.

(17:13):
That typically includesexpert witnesses that do things like talk
about the difficulty of our job andhow important city carriers are.
The Postal Service
there's economic factors that are involvedas far as what the world around us looks
like and a number of other issuesthat tend to change over time.

(17:37):
But those are the ones thatare pretty much consistent.
And then what happens is after this
written evidence is submitted, there'soften hearings with witness testimony.
The three-person panel gets together and
the role of the Postal Service-appointedand the NALC-appointed arbitrator is to be
sure the interestof both sides are clearly understood by

(18:01):
the chair, the neutral, jointly selectedarbitrator who ultimately will make a
decision that'll set the terms ofour collective bargaining agreement.
So this is the one everyone wants to know
what's on the table atthis contract negotiation?
A lot of stuff.
So let's start with wherewe are in that process.

(18:23):
So we concluded our 60-daymediation period on July the 19th.
Throughout that entire period,we continue to negotiate.
We continue to negotiate now.
I
n the reasonably near future, if we arenot to the point of reaching tentative
agreement, we'll begin that process ofselecting an interest arbitrator and

(18:46):
scheduling that process that Ijust described going forward.
The big things that are here for us,economically speaking, is certainly pay.
We are in a place where NALC believes thatwe need a change in our pay structure in
terms of the way our paytables are out there.

(19:08):
We have two separate pay tables that both
end up at the same top-end pay, but theyare different in table one, the old table,
99.9% of people in that tableare currently at the top step.
So for us, the main things that are on thetable and the goals that we want to

(19:28):
achieve are increasing starting pay,for sure, but not just starting pay.
It's also increasing our top end pay to a
level that we believerewards us for our contributions to
the Postal Service and reflects whatour value is to the Postal Service.
And if you look at the economy and wages
in general in this country right now,compared to where they were in 2019 when

(19:53):
we last negotiated, thingshave drastically changed.
Wages have gone up,unemployment has gone at a record low.
There is a bigger challenge in some places
to hire employees thanwe've ever had before.
And really, for all those reasons, plus

(20:14):
the normal reasons that we present islook, our job is not easy and our job gets
more difficult all the time and we takeon more responsibility all the time.
And the result of that, in our view, isthat letter carriers should be paid more.
So those are the big things.
Now, there's a number of otherissues that are on the table dealing with

(20:34):
work rules, of course, the problems wehave with things like compliance with
Article Eight,looking at stuff like route adjustment.
We currently have a joint process ongoing.
That's a big topic in negotiation.
What that'll look like going forward and
then addressing a number of the otherthings that are currently hot issues.

(20:55):
For example,this alarming increase in crime we've seen
over the last couple of years, as well asa lot of long-standing bargaining
positions that are a lot of themare very specific to our job.
Stuff that's included in Article 41 of our
agreement, which is a craft article thatlays out a lot of things that are very
specific to letter carriersand what we do every day.

(21:18):
So we have made good progressthrough our bargaining process.
We've gotten to a place wherewe've come to tentative agreement.
You don't really have an agreement until
you have an agreement, but in terms ofsome individual issues, we've got some
tentative agreement on a number of thingsand we're working towards

(21:40):
and remain optimistic about our ability tonegotiate an agreement that we feel like
fairly rewards our members and thatwe can send out to arbitration.
But I always say that withthis piece to cap it is we also have been
preparing for interest arbitrationreally since we finished our last

(22:00):
agreement, but in earnest forapproaching a year now since last fall.
And if that's the route that we have to goto achieve what we believe is
fair for our members, then we willnot hesitate to go in that direction.
That's great to hear.
So after postal reform, the Postal Serviceis fat with cash now, right?

(22:21):
Yeah, I wish they were.
There's no doubt they are ina better financial position.
When you just look long-term,it did not change a ton.
As far as an in the moment thing here in2023, their cash position has improved
over the last couple of years andsome of that due to postal reform.

(22:44):
But the impact of postal reform isreally more of a long-term impact.
We're looking down the road at
things like the positive impact it has onthe cost for retiree health care and
things like that, whichis a piece of this.
I mean, when we negotiate and dig deep in
the Postal Service finances, which is animportant part of this because if you're

(23:09):
the Postal Service or any other employerfor that matter and you try to make an
argument against giving employees x amountof increased compensation, the best
argument to make is Idon't have any money.
But there's a long-term impact too because
whatever we negotiate, even if it's over athree, four, five, whatever the year the

(23:29):
term of the agreement may be, that doesalso have long-term impacts on their cost.
So there's no question postal reform is apositive, will continue to be a positive.
But it's not
the one thing that all of a suddenreally changes bargaining in terms of just

(23:50):
infusing them with billions ofdollars of cash immediately.
It helps for sure.
And there are additional steps out therethat I'm sure we'll get into in depth in
future episodes that are legislative innature or things that the White House
could do, for example,that would also further impact that and
improve where we are interms of bargaining.

(24:12):
But I would say fat with cash is a little
bit of a stretch but definitelyin a better position.
Okay, so how do other deliverycompanies make more revenue than us?
Yeah, so other deliverycompanies are private companies.
We're the only public, so to speak,or government delivery company.

(24:33):
And in a lot of ways we're comparable.
I mean, yes, they are competition when itcomes to our competitive products like
parcels and some of the specialservices and that type thing.
I think it's important to remember that we
still have the monopolyon the mailbox and first-class mail.
So really the goals of private deliverycompanies versus the goals of

(24:58):
the Postal Service aredifferent in a lot of ways.
For private delivery companies their goal
is to make as much money as they canand make as big a profit as they can.
For the Postal Service, the goal isnot about necessarily making a profit.
Certainly you want to be financially
sustainable and have the ability toreinvest in things like infrastructure.

(25:18):
And the best example of that is just how
badly we need to get the newvehicles out on the road.
Those of you if you're listening to this
and driving an LLV rightnow, you'd certainly agree.
But ultimately the goal for
the Postal Service is nota profit, it's a service.
So that's the biggest difference betweenthe way revenue is dealt with and for us.

(25:43):
Our prices are capped by law.
So there's some limitations on the waythe Postal Service is able to increase
revenue whereas a private companyis free to do whatever they want.
I mean obviously if they increaseprices too much they'll lose business.
So just like any other business they havea lot more flexibility in that regard.

(26:04):
But I'd say those arereally the way that they may end up with
more kind of bottom line revenue thanwhat the Postal Service would have.
Great.So here's the big question.
Why do we negotiate in private?
Yeah it really has to do with our process.
So I think if you look and those of youthat are listening that pay attention

(26:28):
maybe to the larger labor movement andother unions that are out there, often
their negotiationsare very public and they have
large campaigns where they holdrallies and all those sorts of things.
And typically that is effective for aunion in the private sector that has the

(26:51):
ability to strike becauseit raises the profile.
They're able to educate people on what
that strike could mean and therefore thatputs pressure back on the employer to come
to the table with whatthey want to bargain.
In our world of collectivebargaining it's much different.

(27:12):
Number one, we cannot strike.
That's illegal for us to do that, that's
also in our collective bargainingagreement that we will not strike.
And number two,
if we were to do that, it doesn'tinfluence the Postal Service in any way.
And the fact that a public type campaign

(27:37):
without the ability to strike really theonly thing that does is get information
out there, causepeople to express opinions.
That, frankly, the only positive thatcould have actually, there's no positive
that could have in terms of ournegotiation, the only impact that could
have would be a negative impact to cloudthe discussions that we're having.

(28:02):
And it's really important, and I say this,
this is my fourth time,my first time as president, obviously,
leading collective bargaining,but my fourth time doing it.
Twice I served as the chief spokespersonwith the Postal Service, and
one time we got an awardthrough interest arbitration.

(28:22):
Three times we negotiated an award.
One of those was when we essentially
finished our interestarbitration proceedings.
So I've had a lot ofexperience doing this.
An important part of it for us is for our
conversations and our negotiations withour counterparts at the Postal Service,

(28:43):
and vice versa, for us to be able to bevery open, very honest,
and talk about things almostsometimes in an informal setting.
So when you addoutside noise, so to speak, it tends to

(29:06):
have what we call a cooling effect, whereone side or the other gets into a place
where they may not be as comfortabletalking about a particular topic.
So the more open our discussions with them
can be, in my experience, thebetter opportunity we have.
And I think they feel the same wayto eventually reach an agreement.

(29:28):
So as I tell our members, a lot of places
where we go and there are certainly thingsI talk about, and our goals here, as we've
talked a little bit about onthis podcast, are no secret.
I think people know what we are tryingto achieve, at least generally speaking.
And I would love to tell every one of ourmembers every single thing that happens.

(29:51):
But the fact of the matter is,while people want to hear that, and I
totally understand that the only way itcan impact what we are actually doing, and
ultimately we're able toachieve, is in a negative way.
And my responsibility, as well as the restof our officers and staff here at
headquarters that are involved in thisprocess, is for us to do everything that

(30:14):
we can to achieve the best agreement thatwe possibly can for letter carriers.
And everything that we do as it relates to
this process and everything that we sayor don't say is geared towards that goal.
And I am very confidentin what we are doing.
I'm confident in the progressthat we've made so far.

(30:37):
I'm confident in our peoplehere that are involved.
I'm confident in the people that we dealwith at the Postal Service that we will be
in a position hopefullyto reach an agreement.
And in the event that we can, as I
mentioned earlier, we are readyto go in interest arbitration.
I feel great about the case that we could

(30:58):
potentially put on, including the folksthat we have involved, from our attorneys
to expert witnesses and professionals thatwe hire from outside to letter carriers
that we've prepared to testifyshould that become necessary.
Everyone has done a great job here.
And one thing for those that have been

(31:18):
around a while, you'll know,this process does not move fast.
And part of the reason for that is we havethe second largest single bargaining unit
that's under one collectivebargaining agreement in America.
So this collective bargaining agreement
has a huge impact on our members, hasa huge impact on the Postal Service.

(31:41):
So it's a very serious process and they'rereally big decisions to make in these
negotiations regardless of whichside of the table you're on.
But back to the original question, doingit quietly and in private just allows us
to have the most open conversationsand negotiations that we have.

(32:04):
And just the way our bargaining isstructured as a result of a lot of the
things we've talked about, the history,what's in the law now puts us in a place
where outside noise, so to speak,doesn't improve our process in any way.
It can only harm it.
So as we will certainly update our
members, just like we have so far as wemove to different steps in the process.

(32:28):
Andif we get to the point of interest
arbitration, that'll be something thatthere'll be a little more detail about
than just our normalnegotiating discussions.
But just to be clear, as long as webelieve we've got an opportunity to reach

(32:51):
an agreementthat will reward our members and is fair
to our members, we will remainat the table and negotiate.
And I can tell youthe Postal Service is committed to the
same thing and has the belief as wellas we do that we can reach agreements.
So we're optimistic about that.

(33:11):
Well, there are the questions I hadthis week for collective bargaining.
If you think I missed a question or youhave your own question about collective
bargaining, you can get into ourAsk the Mailbag segment next week.
You submit your questions, please justemail us at [e-mail]
[e-mail] and we'll answeryour questions hopefully.

(33:35):
We have a few this week from last episode
that I want to get intoof our Ask the Mailbag.
And our first question, if yougot a couple of minutes for that.
You alright, Brian?Sure.
All right, we have Oscar Cernafrom branch 14, Louisville.
Got to make sure you say that right.Kentucky
Louisville.Louisville.
There you go.Yeah.
My fat Philadelphia tongue is going to

(33:57):
have a tough time getting around a few ofthese cities, I apologize to begin with.
But here's his question.
UPS is negotiating a higherwage for entry level employees.
Does this mean we have to do the same?
The short answer is yes, but it's not as aresult of the agreement or the tentative

(34:21):
agreement, I should call it,between the Teamsters and UPS.
That's been something, and I think Imentioned this earlier in the podcast that
is very important in thisround of bargaining.
We've talked a lot about the CCAclassification in the past and how in its
current form, it doesn'twork in our craft anymore.

(34:42):
And a big piece of that is starting pay.
But the same is also true
with career employees andwhere our PTFs start as well.
So the short answer is yes.
There's no question that a higher starting
pay is a big part of what we're seekingto negotiate in this agreement.

(35:03):
And I feel pretty confidentabout our ability to do that.
But that's really a result ofjust one, it's the right thing to do and
reflects, I think, the valueof letter carriers to the Postal Service
and just what we deservefor the work we do.
But it's also driven by, in somelocations, the difficulty that we've seen

(35:25):
increase over the last few years in termsof our ability to hire people, and in some
of those locations,difficulty retaining them.
And there's nothing that improves that.
There's other things we can do and there'sother things I am pretty confident we will
do in this collective bargainingagreement to improve that stuff.
But there's nothing that improves itmore than a higher starting wage.

(35:47):
So good question, and theanswer is an emphatic yes.
Great.
Second question we have DonMartinez from Branch 201.
Is the NALC going to publicly address the
rampant falsificationsof HIPP heat training?
Yeah, so I think we've done that.
I've done multiple interviews with media

(36:09):
outlets discussing a lot ofthe issues with the HIPP.
If you go back and look at your postal
records for the last few years, yourDirector of Safety and Health, Manny
Peralta, has written about this everyspring we put information there's a
plethora of information on the website,just notifying people of the HIPP.
And for those that maybe don't know that's

(36:31):
the Postal Services HeatIllness Prevention Program.
So yeah, there's a lot of informationthat we put out there about this.
I'll tell you.Currently, each of our national business
agents offices are reaching out to everybranch to find out whether this training

(36:53):
was done or wasn't donein every single location.
And part of the reason for that is once we
get a lot of that stuff, I'll go sit downwith the Postal Service and we'll go
through and compare it towhat their records show.
And I'm pretty sure I know whatthat's going to look like.
Butyou can't just assume these sorts of

(37:13):
things on anecdotal evidence ifyou really want to change it.
And ultimately what we want to changeis we want our people to get trained.
You really have to know what happened.
So if you're out there listeningand your branch hasn't gotten this
information back to your NBA office oryou're just a rank and file
letter carrier, hey, pick up thephone and call your NBA office.

(37:36):
All they want to know is did thetraining happen or did it not happen?
And that'll help us in addressingthat here at the headquarters level.
And our next episode is going to beon HIPP training along with crime.
If you want to get your question in,
you could also just email it [e-mail], and if they're good, I'll

(37:56):
include it in my questions,and we'll see how that goes.
All right, we have another questionhere from Colin from Branch 82.
He wants to know about the recent SupremeCourt decision with the USPS
Postmaster DeJoy, and whatthat impact is going to have.
Yeah, I guess I should givea little bit of background.

(38:17):
There was recently a decisionissued by the court in a case.
The name of the case wasGroff versus DeJoy, and Mr.
Groff was a rural letter carrier.
I forget where.
I think somewhere in the Midwest.
And filed suit
essentially saying the law should allowhim, due to his religious beliefs, to be

(38:43):
excused or accommodated by nothaving to work on Sundays.
And this case was eventually appealed up
to the Supreme Court, and this was onethat we were very concerned about.
And NALC, along with
several of the other unions and theirattorneys and the attorneys at the
AFL-CIO, we got together and strategized alittle bit, and we, NALC submitted a brief

(39:10):
to the court where essentially what weasked for was that this case should just
be remanded to the lower courts forthem to apply the existing law.
And the main reason that that was what weasked the Court to do is
if the Court was to rule on this and withthis Court, if that were to have happened,

(39:32):
more than likely they would havegranted that accommodation.
That would have triggered massive changesto things like our collective bargaining
agreement, article eight,the way we schedule.
It would be a very disruptive result.
So by sending it back to the lower leveland just allowing that court to apply the

(39:56):
law, then it would apply to just thiscase and this individual lawsuit.
So thankfully, the decision of the court
was exactly what we asked for in ourbrief, and that was to remand it
back to the lower court and let thelower court figure out what to do.
I don't think there's been anymovement in that regard yet.

(40:18):
But the short answer to the most important
question here, which ishow does this affect us?
Is it really doesn't have any effect on us
at the national level broadly, on ourCollective Bargain Agreement, which is
a positive thing, particularly when youlook at the makeup of this Supreme Court.

(40:39):
It's one that
for a lot of reasons, whenever there's acase that could impact us, more times than
not,if you had to put your money on it, you
would bet that it's notgoing to go our way.
But in this particular case, thankfully,
it was the result that wehad asked for in our brief.

(40:59):
So bump in the road, so to speak, but nolong term impact, at least not right now.
So in some ways we dodged a little bit of
a bullet there, but we'll see if theissue comes up again in the future.
But thankfully, this one turned out the
way that was best for ourmembers around the country.

(41:21):
Great.All right.
That was our Ask the Mailbag segment,
so that's bring us to conclusionof our episode this week.
Hopefully I'll be back next week.
If not, I'll see you on mymail route carrying mail.
Thank you for listening to this episodeof You Are the Current Resident podcast.
Please subscribe to the podcast so thatyou don't miss an episode and please share

(41:44):
the podcast with our NALCbrothers and sisters.
You can follow the NALC on social media,
on Facebook, Twitter,Instagram and Threads.
You can find links to our accounts in theepisode description, and you can follow
President Renfro onTwitter at brianrenfroe19.

(42:05):
If you have any questions to submit or
some feedback about this new podcastagain, please email us at [e-mail].
I'd like to give you alittle treat on the way out.
May your feet stay dry, your head be cool,
may your bag be light andyour mail run in order.
May your steward be by your sideand your union have your back.

(42:27):
Thanks for listening.See you next week.