Not Just a Chef: Imrun Texeira’s Stand for Change

In this conversation, Furqan and Imrun Texeira discuss the evolution of culinary careers, the importance of hands-on experience in culinary education, and the transition from traditional restaurant roles to innovative positions in the food industry.

They explore the significance of mentorship, networking, and international experiences in shaping culinary professionals. The podcast serves as a platform for sharing insights and stories from individuals who have successfully navigated their culinary journeys, highlighting the potential for new opportunities beyond conventional kitchen settings. In this conversation, Imrun Texeira shares his journey through the culinary world, emphasizing the importance of passion, diversity, and representation in cuisine. He discusses the impact of COVID-19 on his career, the challenges of private dining, and the significance of mental health in the restaurant industry through initiatives like the Burnt Chef Project. Imrun encourages aspiring chefs to explore their passions beyond traditional roles and to seek creative freedom in their culinary endeavors.

🎧 Fugitive Chefs is your window into alternative culinary careers and bold food innovation. New episodes every Tuesday.

Follow, rate us & subscribe for more stories from the culinary underground.

🎙️ Hosted by Furqan from the Fugitive Chefs Podcast

Furqan`s Personal Insta : https://bit.ly/4dtiyTv

Podcast Instagram : https://bit.ly/43ndATO

Spotify : https://spoti.fi/3F6j25A

Apple Podcasts : https://apple.co/43vBtbT

🔗 Connect with Imrun Texeira

Instagram : @imrun.texeira

Chapters

00:00 Early Restaurant Experiences and Career Evolution

04:26 Early Culinary Experiences and Co-op Placements

12:53 International Culinary Exposure and Learning

19:04 The Birth of Wanderlust and Private Dining

31:47 Navigating the Challenges of Private Dining

32:38 Navigating the Private Chef Landscape

34:15 The Creative Process in Private Dining

37:43 The Impact of Top Chef on a Chef's Career

46:30 The Burnt Chef Project: Addressing Mental Health in Hospitality

58:48 Advice for Aspiring Chefs: Finding Your Path

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
So hello everyone, and welcome back to Fugitive Chefs, the
podcast about people who've stepped away from traditional
kitchens to rebuild food in a more creative, personal or
sustainable way. Today's guest is Chef Imran
Teixeira from Toronto. He's joining us.
Thank you for joining Imran. Thanks.
Thanks for having me. So Imran actually comes
recommended from one of our previous guests, so from Nick,

(00:20):
from Nick of North as you know him on Instagram and he's told
me a little bit about Imran. We know more about it, but from
what we know, he's worked at some some of the most famous
restaurants you would you would have heard of all on the globe.
And he's also had experience into what we call these
television shows right. You were on Top Chef is all if
I'm if I'm not wrong. And today Imran does something I

(00:40):
would say which is not traditionally working a
restaurant kitchen job and I'm very excited to hear about all
of this. Also, I've heard about the Burnt
Chef project and I would also like to know what initiatives
like that do and what what role are you playing in that?
But before we deep, like deep dive into all of that, Simran,
can you please tell me like, what is your first connection
with food? How did you?
What are your early early food days looking like?

(01:01):
Yeah, so I would say early food memories started from a pretty
young age. I think I was around two or
three, so toddler times, if you will, just having the love and
passion for food. So trying to cook food at home,
more burning food or cutting myself than anything else.
I think their earliest memory was from around that age where I
tried to cook bagels without cutting them or putting them in
a toaster or even taking them out of the plastic bag if you

(01:22):
will. I ended up just putting the
whole plastic bag of fresh bagels on the stove and just
turning dials and within a few minutes and the whole bag ended
up Catching Fire. And I almost went my house on
fire on on an Easter weekend here here in Canada.
So not the ideal way to wake up your parents at about 5-6 O
clock in the morning. But maybe I was ahead of my time

(01:43):
because I was thinking about what souvid was by trying to
cook stuff in plastic bags. So who knows, But yeah, the, the
passion for food definitely started at a young age, probably
more so for eating and just experiencing different flavors.
Being from a very unique kind ofbackground based on where my
family have come from, from different parts of the world
where they've grown up. And then being in, I think one

(02:03):
of the most multicultural countries in the world.
There's so much kind of influence when it comes to food
flavors, cultures, inspiration and so on.
I just grew up with that kind ofa wide variety.
So for me, always trying to findnew flavors as a young person,
that's definitely where the passion came from.
And then it just naturally evolved into getting more hands
on. So I started working in

(02:24):
restaurants at at about 13 or 14years old.
And then, yeah, here we are 16 years later.
So tell us a little bit about your early restaurant days
because as we we will be talkingbefore before we start recording
that you are the second Canadianon the show.
And I feel even though restaurant kitchens are very
much pretty, pretty common causechefs travel a lot and work in
different kitchens, but still it's, it's very curious for me.

(02:47):
Like, how did you find like, howdoes Korea evolve in in a place
like Canada as a chef? So I guess like it's pretty
similar, I guess to a lot of different places in the world,
especially as we both know afteryou work in certain types of
kitchens around the world, they're they're very
international. So you get to really mix and
mingle with so many different chefs here.
They're kind of background or their origin stories, if you

(03:09):
will. And a lot of them start the same
way if it's young commie cooks and whatnot, or starting as a
dishwasher. So I started at a dishwasher
washer at a local kind of chain restaurant if you will, in my
hometown of Agua, which is our nation's capital here in Canada.
Definitely not glamorous food byany means, but just gave me that
kind of early insight into what a professional kitchen really

(03:30):
had to offer. The energy, the buzz, the kind
of just the flow and what not. Again, we are making
quesadillas, nachos and chicken wings.
So it wasn't anything revolutionary.
But again, just trying to get myhands and or feet wet, if you
will, to see what that world waslike.
And it was absolutely intoxifying in so many different
ways. And I just, I just love the the

(03:50):
energy. I've always been very high
energy, if you will, based on how I operate as a person, love
working with my hands again, food, the passion started from a
young age. So it was just great to have
that, I guess early entry into akitchen in general and then just
started evolving from there. So after working at this chain
restaurant, ended up working at like a small Spanish wine and

(04:12):
tapas bar. So seeing what that kind of
cuisine had to offer. It was an open kitchen kind of
concept as well. So completely different way out
when it comes in terms to the restaurant.
And then that led me into a highschool Co-op program.
So I'm not too sure if this is like a universal thing in
countries around the world, but part of one of my years in high

(04:34):
school, I believe this was a great 10 at the time.
So it was around 15-16 years old.
I was able to do half the day inschool at my high school and
then the other half working in the workforce if you will.
So there's so many different areas of work that we can go
into and I ended up doing my Co-op placement at a local 5
star hotel within my hometown. So I was again 16 years old,

(04:58):
most people around, maybe the youngest, around 2025 years old,
all the way up working with someof the best chefs in the city at
the time. It's one of the most glamorous
hotels at that point. We were one of the best chefs
running the restaurant slash hotel as well.
So going from small chain restaurants, a small like
boutique individually owned restaurant to a massive hotel of
that caliber, cooking in their fine dining restaurant, their

(05:21):
jazz bar, doing massive events for corporate functions, charity
events and whatnot. It was a huge operation, but
amazing to see all those kind ofmoving parts at the age of 16.
So cooking for high end businessmen, diplomats, a lot of
different celebrities, athletes,you name it.
It gave me a crazy like eye opening experience to what the

(05:42):
world of hospitality can really be.
Right where, yeah, we're puttingout great food.
But when you're working within hotels or indoor resorts,
hospitality is at the forefront,right?
So especially when you're working with some of the
personalities of the icons that came through those doors, it's a
very high touch point kind of operation that's going on.
And that just ended up rolling into, I guess more different

(06:03):
kind of unique restaurants here in in the Canadian landscape.
So if it's French fine dining, Italian restaurants, more
Spanish. I worked in vegan restaurants as
well. So really just at that young
age, trying to do everything possible from different styles
of service, different styles of cuisine and what not, just to
see where my passion or my kind of vibe was and what kind of

(06:25):
styles of service that I really enjoyed.
I think that was really good kind of advice I got from one of
my chefs when I was young was tojust try and get into every
single different type of kitchen, not to really double
down into a niche at that point early on in my career to really
find what I loved, right. And I think all those
experiences really helped createa pretty unique, well-rounded

(06:45):
experience as I found where I think my voice, your true
calling was for a a longer period of time after that.
That's very interesting because I mean, the kind of program
you're explaining, it sounds like very vocational.
You get like early access into these workplaces, which I think
is not very common today becausemost culinary programs these
days a lot about a lot about theory.
And then you have like I think short internships, I think they

(07:07):
keep getting intense as the years go.
But most people, I think who endup choosing or like investing a
lot into a kitchen carrier as asa feat as a tuition fee for
these culinary colleges have possibly never stepped into a
kitchen, which is, which is verystrange in a, in a career like
this. But it's so hands on.
And then people invest. Some of them go into like a
student debt in, in countries like India and Spain.

(07:27):
I know people go into student debt just for a culinary college
which doesn't have the best pay scale promised up to the four
years. And then you have never stepped
into a kitchen. So how do you see that?
Is the program that you mentioned still active in
Canada? Are people taking that path or
have people more switched on to?Because I know many Indians
actually go to colleges like George Brown and stuff after
after completing their bachelor's.
How's how's the reality now in Canada?

(07:49):
So I think I, I could obviously speak from my perspective
growing up here. I think the government and these
kind of educational systems are starting to really put more of
an importance on that kind of notion of getting early access
to said careers. If it's in kitchens or whatever
career that it is, these Co-op placements and whatnot that
start in high school offers thatkind of 0 risk opportunity to

(08:11):
get hands on experience, right? If it's becoming a plumber,
teacher, electrician, whatever it is, it's the fact that you
can get in real life experience in these top level kind of
places and see what that kind oflifestyle could be like, that
trade, whatever it could be, right?
So that gave me that early kind of experience to see what these
places had to offer us. Again, different chefs and what

(08:34):
not gave me different advice when I worked at that hotel.
But I, I absolutely loved it. And here in Canada it's deemed
as a trade being a chef or a Baker.
So if it's, it's similar within the trade system as becoming a
plumber, electrician, Carpenter,you name it.
So there's certain kind of trains that we can get to have a
certification or a degree here as a quote UN quote, red seal

(08:57):
chef. That is what we call it here in
Canada, the Red Seal trades where basically you get this
certification after thousands ofhours or years of training.
So for me, I had to do years of training other under other Red
Seal certified chefs and write atest on top of that.
So you have to have your theory and your hands on kind of a
background knowledge, write a test and then you have this

(09:19):
certification. So on top of culinary school to
have your diploma, you now have this certification basically
deem you as a master in your craft.
So definitely helps reinforce your own confidence and
knowledge around your skill set.But also when you're going out
to jobs, it's like almost a staple kind of documentation
saying that you have this kind of benchline knowledge.

(09:40):
So when it comes to the Canadianlandscape, going into my
apprenticeship program, which isworking towards the
certification, there's so many grants and bursaries coming into
this line of work or into this culinary school training.
So instead of me going into the court enble or these more say
traditional realms of post secondary education, all of this

(10:01):
was supported by the Canadian government.
So for me, having a decently high GPA and going through all
my classes, I got grants and bursaries back.
So in hindsight, I came out of culinary school with no debt.
All my schooling was paid for because I had certain grades to
match and I got hands on experience.
So half the time you're in the classroom in the culinary labs

(10:24):
in the school, and then the other half you're actually in
the workforce working and getting paid.
So I was basically getting paid to go to culinary school,
learning from the best chefs in the city, the best chefs at the
culinary school, being able to leave culinary school with
little to no debt. And I was able to write my
certification at the age of 21 years old, where most people
would only be doing that at maybe 3031.

(10:47):
So by the time I went to culinary school around 1819, I
already had about 5-6 years of culinary experience already from
high school, co-ops, young jobs and whatnot.
So I already knew what the workforce had to offer.
I was working full time while inculinary school so by the time I
graduated I was able to skip through a lot of the processes
because of all this background knowledge.

(11:08):
I had the highest certification I could have as a chef in Canada
at the age of 21, no debt and I was able to enter the workforce
with a lot of one confidence andstress off the shoulders of
again that that comes with post secondary education.
Yeah, that's me. That's a super cool system.
I think a lot of systems need tolook into this.
I think, I mean, of course all systems have their faults, but I
think the the way you've highlighted it and the the parts

(11:30):
of it that you've highlighted, Ithink super important.
I think academics are important.And and of course I, I, I don't
think that I think yes, the kitchen business of the of being
a chef has risen up a lot from being a blue collar job, but you
still can do a lot from all the theory that you learn.
But in the end, I think the commitment comes down to whether
you like being there or not. There is no other way out of
that. Either you like it or you don't
because in many cases, even today, the driver for many, many

(11:54):
people in the kitchen, the only driver is passion.
And if that doesn't, if that doesn't fulfill you or if that
is not your style of life or if you're not used to doing the,
the hours or not even the hours.I think the hours and the times
that people don't work on like weekends or festivals and things
like that. And if you don't like that
atmosphere, I think maybe it's before you get into all these
like put your put your feet in the game so deep.

(12:16):
It's better to know. And I think the platform that
you mentioned provides that. And then you still get to do
your culinary school and, and you're going in there knowing
exactly what you want to learn and not just, you know,
whatever. I'll just swing by everything
that comes. And also like most of these
chefs then step into most of these students then step into
very fancy restaurants without having ever passed the hour of

(12:36):
being in being in a commissary in a hotel and seeing how
operations work in a hotel, for example.
I think you'd see a lot of partsof of as you mentioned, the big
events and catering and things like that, which are far from
what fine dining is. And that's how most of the
volumes you feed. But yeah, it's super, super
inspired by this, by this modulethat if you show told me about.
And is it again a lot of it happened by chance?

(12:56):
I had a lot of good from mentorsif it's from high school pushing
me into the Co-op placement. And because of that Co-op
placement, I was able to start working towards those hours I
was mentioning to get the certification in Co-op.
So at the age of 16, I was signed up as a youth apprentice
before I even got into culinary school.
So for a program that normally lasts 1 1/2 two years depending

(13:17):
on your placements, I was able to finish the whole program in
six months. And because of all this kind of,
I guess, background skill, culinary instructors or chefs at
school knew that I didn't have to do the basics at school.
So they would take that extra kind of interest and give me
bigger, better projects if it's in or outside of the kitchen.
A lot of kind of more mentorshiproles in those kind of classes

(13:39):
and then open up doors within the community.
If it was charity events and whatnot, I was able to volunteer
at, especially where I was in Ottawa, that is our nation's
capital. That's where all the embassies,
that's where our Prime Minister lives.
So there's a lot of those kind of high profile events that
happen on the regular. So getting the opportunities to
cook for foreign diplomats and whatnot was pretty much a

(14:00):
regular thing. And it was great having that
skill set from the hotel, working with these big icons and
being OK in the rooms, cooking in front of people, talking to
them. Because that's I think another
skill set a lot of people are not taught in culinary school is
how to even present yourself in public on a stage or at these
big galas and whatnot, right? So it's all these little things

(14:21):
that I think maybe just happenedby chance, but it end up all
coming together pretty well. Yeah, it makes complete sense.
I think it it prepares you. It prepares you in a much more
rounded way and not just focusedon one side of things and
everything. Yeah, that's super interesting.
Super cool to hear that from you.
And moving on from there, like how, how was after Canada
because you also stepped, you also went abroad, looked at

(14:42):
other kitchens, worked at other kitchens, maybe learned other
philosophies of looking at food and then coming back to Canada,
how was that as as somebody Canadian outside Canada, how was
that experience for you? It's, I've always traveled a lot
more so obviously as as an adultnow than when I was a kid, but
it's always great to just one see and meet people from around
the world and see how cuisines and culture evolve and develop

(15:05):
with immigration and migration, if you will.
But when it comes to especially fine dining, because that is
where I guess my heart really was pushed towards as I, as I
was growing up getting to see what fine dining, the Michelin
circuit, if you will, had to offer.
Because only up till recent we haven't had the Michelin Guide
here in Canada. So I wanted to see what that
level of cooking was like, the hours, everything what what does

(15:28):
that lifestyle really entail, right?
I didn't really have anything toreally compare that to here in
Canada. So I had to save some money and
get overseas. So shortly after culinary
school, maybe a year or so after, I ended up spending about
six months to a year in the UK. Lot of my family live and come
from London or different parts of of England.
So I was able to stash and do some small internships at

(15:49):
different styles of restaurants.So I was able to spend some time
up in Mayfair in central London to see what what a tasting menu
only restaurant was like and oneof the richest parts of London.
So it was chef Claude Bossy's hibiscus out in Mayfair years
ago. So it's great to spend some time
there seeing what that tasting menu format was like.
We had a Canadian chef who is, Ibelieve he was the CDC at the

(16:11):
time. He just won the roof scholarship
at the time as well. So he was on his way out to go
work in San Fran at a three staras well.
So it's great to see how many Canadians are out there to have
that kind of connection to home.But again, seeing what a
restaurant of that caliber takesto to work there, right.
So the the 15-16 hour days and to see how many kind of moving

(16:33):
parts or moving bodies take to to pump out that kind of level
of execution and to see the style of food, right?
I grew up obviously reading British kind of style cookbooks,
being able to travel there a lotmight definitely have a big love
or a soft spot in my heart for London and the UK.
So getting to see first hand howthose kitchens run.
But again, seeing maybe the differences, right?

(16:55):
So you have this two Michelin star in Mayfair, glamorous white
tablecloth kind of vibe. But then I went out to more of
the countryside. So just on the outskirts of
London, I think was like one of the last train stops was Tom
Kerr. So he has one of the highest
rated pubs in the world. So A2 Michelin star pub and some
of the best pub food I've ever had in my life.
But completely dialed massive team, massive operation.

(17:19):
But seeing what it's like working in a two star tasting
menu only and then a two star pub.
So really trying to compare highquality cooking intent, but
completely different styles of operation, different parts of of
the city and or country, right. So it's great kind of insight to
see what the UK had to offer andthe British kind of landscape

(17:40):
when it comes to food and operations.
And it definitely opened up my eyes what it takes to work at
that level. But knowing that that love,
passion and intent can go into every single different style of
operation. It's not just your high end 1520
course tasting menus that deserves that kind of love and
meticulous kind of touch to it. You can take that into every

(18:01):
single operation. So it's great having that kind
of insight at a young age beforecoming back to Canada to work at
some more spots to know one whatis out there, but also the
intent that can be taken into any kind of restaurant that we
go into. That's super interesting.
I mean, it's a, it's a yeah. It's always like, I think from
your schooling life or like fromyour entry into the, into the,

(18:21):
the industry and then going thisdistance abroad, I think you've
always looked for like diversity, versatility of seeing
all these different sort of operations.
And I feel that's very nourishing.
I feel, I mean, it's a, it's a very different generation also,
like when there's one generationof kitchen which spends like
years in one kitchen and you know, that's for them value and
for for you in your case, I see all the value coming from the
diversity of the kind of people you worked with, the kind of

(18:43):
operations you've put yourself in and coming from all these
experience in restaurants. One thing also I read about you
is I think it's called wanderlust.
When did that happen? Like why that idea of like why
private dining? What was that exactly?
And what was it that restaurantsweren't fulfilling for you?
Because that's for me, I think the first instance of you
getting into this fugitive chef category, right?

(19:04):
Yeah, correct. So leading up to COVID, I was
living in the South of England, so right on the southern coast
of Brighton. Beautiful, beautiful area.
And I was working at this British tasting menu, a
restaurant that focused on, of course, seasonal produce, but
not using any spices whatsoever,not even black pepper.
It was just beautiful produce. And I guess the only added
element would be salt. So me having a Big South Asian

(19:27):
kind of a background, not cooking with spices is pretty
wild, but I've always been a oneto push myself out of those kind
of a comfort zones. But when unfortunately COVID
popped off and as I saw that wave across Europe of everything
shutting down, I had internshipsacross London, Ireland.
I was supposed to spend some time in Italy, go over to
Copenhagen as well. And all these internships,

(19:49):
they're all messaging me saying,oh, we got to cancel, we're
canceling. And all this basically closing
off. Me and my partner ended up
deciding to move back to Canada so our resident or her schooling
was coming to an end and London or the UK is not a cheap place
to live when you're not making money, especially with
restaurants shut down and we hadmore of a support network in
Canada. We ended up coming back to the
Toronto area. So skipping forward a bit,

(20:12):
coming out of the lockdown stuffthat we all unfortunately went
through around the world, a lot of the.
Restaurants in Canada that I've I probably would have wanted to
work at pre COVID ended up closing down unfortunately for
obvious reasons and or changing business models.
So if it's based on the flavors,the techniques or the styles of
services that I was drawn to at that point or still am, they are

(20:35):
non existent anymore or they just completely changed their
style. So I didn't really want to give
up a skill set I've worked on for about 10 to 15 years.
And I really wanted to keep pushing that out because I know
there still is to this day societal kind of body that wants
that kind of service, if you will, when it comes to that
blind tasting menu kind of format and what not.

(20:57):
And having that kind of creativefreedom, right?
A lot of the flavors or the proteins and what not that I've
grown up eating or I've worked with around the world, they
aren't as I guess mainstream in restaurants here in Toronto or
in Canada in general. Yes, it is very multicultural.
But when you think of your top echelon kind of restaurants,
they definitely gear more towards your Western European.

(21:20):
So if it's your British, French,Italian, maybe you'll be more
Nordic kind of style restaurants, which is is
beautiful. But when you think of the
flavors from the parts of the world, especially because I've
traveled a lot through South America or of course Asia, and
especially in South Asia where I'm from, you don't really see
that representation. But that's funny, right?
It's, it's curious what you say,Imran, because this has been
like, not, I wouldn't say bothering, but it, it does come

(21:43):
in your mind because also, like,I, I mean, I'm, I'm the first
person to say that. I mean, as somebody who was born
in India, I would feel more, I don't know, there'll be more
inhibitions in me paying more for an Indian meal than say a
French meal or like, where does this perception come from?
And sometimes it's, yes, it's about comparing foie gras with
China masala. Maybe that makes sense.

(22:04):
But sometimes it's just like thehumblest of things.
You will pay a bigger bill for aGerman, French, Dutch meal then
you would for say, a Peruvian place.
You would not want to pay expensive, even though you're
based in Europe and it's all being shipped from Peru.
What is it? Where does this come from?
And I think it comes down to like poor marketing, right?
We, we've worked in these kitchens, right, to make

(22:24):
traditional French Demi glass. It's amazing.
There's a lot of technical kind of skill that comes into it.
But for me, having roots in Goa,making a perfect beef in Dulu
takes just as much experience orskill, if not even more, right?
So I don't really know where that disconnect is, which is
unfortunate. And we're starting to see more
of that kind of respect based onjust base level respect or even

(22:47):
money kind of respect based on what we should be paying for
these things and getting maybe more of a kind of even playing
ground. But when it comes to the the
menus I wanted to create or the products or flavors I wanted to
work with, I would say 99% of the restaurants in Toronto or
Canada, we're not doing it. So when I looked at your top
tasting menu, like restaurants, they weren't using these types

(23:07):
of masalas or these cuts of meator even these types of proteins.
And it's funny because again, I'm in the most multicultural
city in the world and you go into these French, Italian,
Nordic style restaurants, 99% ofthe workforce look like you and
I, but yet when you look at maybe their top management or
their flavors, there is no representation.

(23:30):
So I'm just like, like, OK, I'veworked in these realms for 10-15
years. I'm, I'm kind of over that
point. I want to one, represent who I
am, but also represent this whole wave of I guess third kind
of cultures here in Canada, but this new wave of I guess flavors
here in this in this country, right?
Being able to see that diversitymaybe a bit more in New York or

(23:51):
San Fran or in London, you see that wider range of flavors
being represented in that top level of dining in Canada.
I don't really feel we're at that point.
We're now trying to really breakinto that.
But me myself, again, being South Asian, I haven't really
seen that representation. So I wanted to take that full
creative freedom into that business model.

(24:13):
So I bring in the flavors and produce I wanted to work with
and then bring that kind of style of hospitality and service
directly to the people I knew. Maybe that business model is
maybe not the best model to taketo market it then and maybe a
bit now in our local landscape because it's a hard business
model trying to bring in 50 people for a 10 quarters tasting
menu every night of the week. Let me bring that into these

(24:35):
private spaces. If it's for private people in
their cottages, on their yachts,in their houses here in Toronto
or now working with top level branch to create these one off
kind of executions of these events, right one.
And it's unique events because it's not a Ala carte.
It's all blind tasting menu where I have that creative
freedom. But again, it's flavors that

(24:56):
you're not probably going to find, I would say at 99% of the
restaurants in this country. So it's very unique to who I am
and I don't have to bend to the chef's or the owners rules
because I've worked in so many kitchens in this city or country
where they're like, you know what, we can't put that much
spice into the dish because it'sgoing to be overwhelming for the
palate or that's too much chili or no one's going to eat that

(25:17):
protein. And I'm like, my family come
from a country with over a billion people where we're
lining up around the corner for that cut of meat or for that
missile Lord for that spice. So the fact that you're saying
people aren't going to like thathere, I think part of my French,
that's bullshit. And I just wanted to have that
creative freedom where people couldn't say no.
So I have built out, I guess, a business now for myself where if

(25:40):
they don't understand the concept, I'm not going to cook
for you. So now when I do cook for my
clients, they basically give me their base level restrictions if
it's dietary or any allergies. And then I have full creative
freedom. So I basically have that control
of cooking for the right people.Because when you're cooking at
some of these top rated restaurants, especially with the

(26:01):
kind of press, you're not alwaysgoing to cook for people who
enjoy the food or the experiencedirect.
You know what? We have the money, the means to
come. We're going to take our selfie
in front of the doors at Noma orThe Alchemist, whatever say
we've been here, done, whatever.It's a, it's a tick off their
list for me. And a lot of the the guests I
get to cook and work with, they're there for the
experience, the food, top to bottom.
So it's a lot more wholesome forme and for them.

(26:23):
And it's yeah, it's just a greater connection for myself,
the diners and the foods. It's a better ecosystem I find.
Yeah. I think it gives you, as you
said, it gives you, I mean, somesort of control over a lot of
moving pieces. And I think if you're especially
going with this philosophy at a point of view to, to set, I
don't know, set stage for the right narrative.
I think it's you need to controlall these moving places because

(26:45):
if not because, I mean, there are, there are many restaurants.
I mean, back. I mean, I just know the Indian
perspective, but also I know a little bit of like how Mexicans
do it or how other gastronomies are doing it.
But I think many of them what ifthey've tried what they've tried
is to to mimic what the French or how they got famous or like,
I don't know, doing a Garridor service by your table or serving
things in their style or there are like enough.

(27:06):
I think there are enough restaurants.
I hope they've died down by now in Bombay that Mumbai, there's
enough restaurants serving see Buckton just because somebody in
the north of Europe is doing it.It makes no sense.
But I think mimicking or just nothing's going to come out like
this is Fernadiya said like liketo create is not to copy.
And and that's the problem sometimes because many of us, I

(27:26):
think come from this point of view that I want to reclaim the
value of my cuisine, but it can't come from just copying.
And the ones who have made it like, for example, I don't know
central what Virilio has done orwhat Thomas in India has done
with Bombay Cantinas is serving essentially what is being had
and not, not kind of being somehow sensitive or I don't

(27:46):
know what the right for the, forthe right word.
Just not being confident about what you're representing and not
having to put some makeups to, to make it like to justify to
yourself that you can charge that much.
I think it's, it's a tough, it'sa tough curve, but I think it's
once people, once people like them and you do it, it makes of
course the path for the others, others easier.
But I mean, we've seen the positives, right?

(28:08):
All the positives that you highlighted, like how much
freedom and how much creative freedom you have, how you can
control what narrative you want to give the diners.
But again, also has a lot of negatives to not only control
the menu, but the operations, the administration, the cost of
it. All the things that you have to
learn that you might not have tolearn when somebody else is
doing the numbers for you. Having the reservation system

(28:28):
and being cooking and then realize that the reservation
system has been down and that's why you're not getting
reservations. Things like that.
How was that for you? Like did you go through some
professional education? Did you depend on colleagues?
Did you depend on mentors? How did you get those skills to
to get full on private dining experiences?
Definitely a lot of good mentorsin the space as well as some to
have like operated in similar realms, if you will.

(28:50):
Maybe not the level of kind of service I'm bringing.
Maybe a bit more kind of casual when it comes to I guess,
private like dining and or events or technically catering,
right? So they've been able to give me
a lot of good insight because it's not like I need to use
reservation systems and whatnot.It's kind of direct contact with
my guests individually. So yes, I'm wearing a lot of
hats, if you will, but pulling on a lot of institution or I

(29:12):
guess more kind of lessons I've learned from kitchens or
restaurants, if you will. But then just dialing in the
process, right? It's not like I have to, I
guess, bring in as many people as a restaurant.
The overhead is a little bit different for sure.
And I also looked at like, can Ibring this restaurant concept to
market as a restaurant? Then I also looked at the top 10
or top 10 reasons why most restaurants fail.

(29:35):
So when I brought this business,I'm like, OK, do I turn this
into a brick and mortar or do I bring this experience to people?
And when I got that list of the top 10 reasons, I think about
nine of those reasons I was ableto eliminate with this business
model. So yes, there's maybe a
different kind of ceiling that can be reached based on the
volume of maybe money that can be brought in or the amount of

(29:57):
people I can reach with the food.
And that's something that I can live with if I can control all
these other things. And we all know running these
kind of businesses is very stressful when you think of your
traditional restaurants, right? So for me, I really wanted to
create a better kind of a wholesome balanced lifestyle, if
you will, and this was able to offer it up.
So being able to lean on prior knowledge from restaurants,

(30:19):
again, culinary training at school and what not with some of
that business back end. But again, leaning on my our
friends, right that we've been able to make over the years
working in these realms to when learn from them what works and
what doesn't. And then just fine tuning that
into what works for us. Yeah, I mean you, you've
actually mean I'm reading this recently reading this book
called The Lean Startup and theythey mentioned this what you've

(30:42):
what you've just mentioned of like trying and testing models
and just trying and cancelling. Stick with what works and what's
I mean, the the worst that can happen if you try something new
is you might fail and then you jump back into one less thing to
to care about. And also what you've said about
like, yeah, these depending on networking and mentors.
I think that's the biggest take away from all the jobs you do,
all the, all the contacts you make in, in this industry.

(31:03):
And, and also like, I think it'svery important that people
listening to this take away of, of what you correctly said that
you took all the learnings that you had from restaurants.
And I, it's funny for me that many people who are skilled
enough and capable enough to do private dining experiences or do
pop ups or collaborate with chefs and do these dinners kind
of criticize themselves or like too critical with themselves.
And they feel that they lack thebusiness thing.

(31:24):
And that's true that you lack the business until you do it.
But believe me, that's not, not the biggest chunk of the
experience that you're going to serve, because the rest of it is
you already have it. So I think still better prepared
than a lot of people who are running restaurants and have no
knowledge about food. It's just that they have capital
or they have money or they have somebody behind who funds it.
So you're always better preparedthan those who are opening

(31:45):
restaurants with no sense of food, you know?
And we've seen so many restaurants or restaurant tours
bring these things to market, right?
And within six months, a year, they fail because they don't
have any background knowledge. And again, now we're seeing a
wave of cooks and or a culinary professionals, creators, if you
will, thinking that anyone can become a private or a personal
chef, do these private dinners, right?

(32:06):
But maybe I take it to a different kind of level than the
average person. But there's so much work that
goes into it, right? Based on the shopping, the the
sourcing of set ingredients and bring that kind of execution or
that experience to life is a whole like another world, right?
So I feel so many people have gone into this world of private
events and private dining and whatnot, but it's a whole nother

(32:27):
beast. There's pros and cons just like
any kind of business model, but I think a lot of people
underestimate how much actual work goes into a building out
that kind of concept and offering that at A at a high
kind of level, right? And that's where people like
look down on maybe a lot of people going into these realms
because it's so much easier to start going into private chef
work or doing these events than opening a restaurant.

(32:49):
The cost of entry is a lot easier, but finding said
clientele is very different and knowing how to navigate that
world is a completely different ball game.
So knowing how to price yourselfand how to bring those
experiences to life is completely different.
And there's again, different levels, right?
If you're just doing exactly what the client wants, if you're
doing your meat and potato kind of dining, for me, obviously

(33:10):
it's a completely different style.
Not many people maybe offer whatI do one, maybe because it's a
lot more work. But again, maybe that's not
where their expertise comes from, right?
I'm not really here to come in and just cook you your five
meals a day or do meal prep work.
There are chefs that do that kind of work, but for me, I'm
trying to really OfferUp an experience that's not really
offered up in these private spaces.
So it's one unique for me, but just as insight for other

(33:33):
people. There is so much kind of
background work that goes into building out this kind of a
model if. I'm curious how this affects
your like share with me, like how does it affect your creative
process? Because in working in a
restaurant where you have somebody who's deciding the
menu, where you have somebody who's also like telling you the
feedback of guests. Because of course you see plates
coming back or you see seasons being affecting your menu and
things like that. But here with the whole layer of

(33:55):
you being the person and completely in touch with the
guest and seeing their reactions, seeing how they go
through the menu. And I think being more close to
the guest themselves and also the one who's like also the
purveyor who's also the, I don'tknow, Also with the beverage and
everything having this extra exposure, how does it change you
or your, does it affect your creative process?
I think you know what it it makes it a lot better because

(34:17):
you're getting the raw upfront detail right from sourcing the
ingredients. You're putting your hands on
every single thing. And when it comes to the
service, you're seeing everything.
And then when you're interactingwith the guests, when you're
building a rapport with them. I think it's become more trend
trendy, if you will, in the lastdecade, if you will, of more
chefs running dishes to table orhaving those open kitchen

(34:39):
concepts. So having more of that guest,
four kind of interactions for the back of house, which is
nice, nice. But for me, getting that kind of
interaction with the guests and seeing their reactions to the
dishes and seeing if they like something or they don't.
Those are things I ask all my kind of guests or other things
that they love or other things that they hate.
And sometimes it's personal preference or maybe there is a

(34:59):
lack of education or action in certain ways.
That is how we all learn. I don't need like fluff pieces
coming in from a server, from a diner.
That's just saying whatever theywant to the server for me coming
out when it's vulnerable on my side.
I'm not asking, hey, if everything was amazing, if there
is something you hated or didn'tlike, I want to hear that too,
because that's the only way I'm going to know.

(35:21):
Right. So it's yeah, you're not getting
it in volume at a restaurant with 4050 sixty covers a night,
but you're getting, I would liketo think, raw, unfiltered
feedback. So I think it really helps with
that creative process on knowingwhere to tweak or change dishes
and whatnot or how the flow of amenu goes and whatnot.
But then also because you're notmoving, I guess quote UN quote

(35:42):
product the same way the way youcurate your menus are very
different as well because you'renot going to be bringing in
hundreds of pounds of produce, right, Especially if you're not
doing back-to-back events, whichagain, my style events take a
lot of energy and effort. You're not moving product maybe
as fast, so your menus maybe from week to week or every two
weeks it could be a completely different menu because of how

(36:04):
crazy the season changes or how things come in, in and out of
season. So how you build out you are
going to what not or where you pull inspiration for flavor is
more of a driving force for me now than just having everything
like basically ready to work with from from your local
purveyors that you would have ata restaurant, right.
So when it comes to a creative standpoint, you have to think,

(36:25):
where's your driving force of flavor to create these seasonal
menus on on an ongoing basis? That's the whole world all
together. I mean, but you, but you ask for
it. I mean, you can't complain
anymore because you asked for this freedom.
And it's and I think it's also like grounds you, it connects
you to the food system because you're not just somebody.
I mean, if you're wasteful aboutsomething, you know the
implications of it. If you were, if you're, you

(36:47):
won't be, you won't be senselessabout putting things on the menu
which might cost you. I mean, you're cost effective.
I think it's is the best way to create these.
I mean, I mean, this is the casein food.
This is also the case in like other examples of architecture
or regenerative cities, as in smaller circles are what what
are the most circular things because that's where the person
is the piece. And that's how it's the synergy
happens because it's it's much more controllable.

(37:09):
But for me at this point also, it's very interesting how you've
mentioned about the challenge that people can have with
attracting diners, right. And with one thing about you
also red is the Top Chef experience.
I would like to hear that because Top Chef of course
effects. I mean, you will tell me about
it. Does it get you more influx of
diners who are curious to you know what I've seen this guy on
TV. I would like to see his food as
well. So of course it has its
benefits, but I would, I would like to know your sincere

(37:30):
experience of it and do you recommend it to people?
Because there are also people who might see that as, as their
fugitive chef way, you know, to build yourself as a brand
because that gives you a voice and that gives you the freedom
to be more daring to do things which are not so common.
Yeah, so definitely a unique experience.
I find I was Top Chef Canada, maybe a little different on how
Top Chef America works. And then I feel like I could be

(37:52):
wrong. I feel these are the only Top
Chef shows in in the world. Most of the other more
professional culinary competition shows are all under
the Master Chef kind of brand. What do you think of Master
Chef, UK professionals, Italy, Australia, so on?
So it's a unique experience. Like you said, it's a great way
for branding for for marketing, right.
I may be looking back, I think Imight have done, it may be a bit

(38:13):
too early in my career because Imaybe didn't have my own
business, my own restaurant to to promote.
Because at the end of the day, it is more of a marketing kind
of branding monster or a machinethat you can use to your
advantage. I was a sous chef at the time at
a restaurant and then we filmed it leading up to COVID and then
the episode or the season actually aired within the first

(38:35):
couple weeks of lockdown. So all the kind of public
events, all the promo work, all the things that we wouldn't
normally be able to capitalize on, we couldn't do.
So even with all the branding and the marketing, but I
couldn't do a pop up or anythingin Toronto for two years because
we were in a lockdown for two years more or less straight.
So we weren't really able to capitalize on that.

(38:56):
That was just poor timing of theworld.
I can't really control that. But the overall experience, at
least for Top Chef Canada, I canonly speak to it's more of a a
game show than a competition because it's not maybe realistic
into how the day-to-day operations are in a restaurant,
right? They're giving you 30 minutes to
create a dish and expecting you to come out with a top class

(39:20):
mission level kind of dish wherewe both know when you're
creating these menus or dishes. I've spent days, weeks, months,
sometimes years based on some ofthe touches to bring these
dishes to life. So it definitely takes a hit on
your mental or your psyche when you're getting maybe critiqued
in a certain way based on something you had to pull
together based on a weird scope within 30 minutes.

(39:42):
So it's not maybe as I think a lot of people, especially
outside of the industry don't understand, it's not realistic
to what our day day-to-day actually looks like in these
realms. And a lot of people I don't
think take that when they're coming in as a competitor,
knowing that this is what it is.It is more of that kind of game
show because they're giving you sometimes non realistic kind of
scopes for a challenge, right? So I tell anyone, I told myself,

(40:05):
I tell more people that are going on to these shows, one
look at it from a marketing and a branding standpoint and just
to have fun with it, you don't really have control because
looking especially working more on the back end of different
kind of media now within the food world.
They have TV ratings that they have to to meet, right?
They need viewership, they need certain drama.
There's certain things on a backend for a production company

(40:27):
that they have to meet. And even on a show I did years
prior, one of the producers cameup to me, which is pretty jokes
right before I stepped on set saying just remember, the best
chef doesn't always win. So just knowing that there's
always a certain kind of narrative that they're looking
for. If they're scripted or
unscripted shows, there's ways that things are certain pushed

(40:47):
based on the sponsorships, basedon how they want to see things
play out, right? Their bottom line is not to
showcase or to have the best chef always win.
It's what's going to bring the ratings in, what's going to
bring dollars in so they can come back for a new season.
So really just going in with thekind of right mindset, knowing
what these shows actually are and not letting that affect you
too much. Because I've seen a lot of

(41:08):
people myself in fooded get demoralized, right?
Because you don't always get to showcase your true self.
You're not always cooking for people that might understand
your flavors, right? Especially for me coming where I
come from and using my flavors. You're not always cooking for
judges that are chefs or that have worked in those realms or
understand those flavors, right?So they might not understand

(41:29):
these little nuances or flavors because they haven't grown up
with them or they haven't workedor traveled to those parts of
the world. They might say, oh, this is too
light or this is too bold or this is too acidic or or
whatever. But I'm like, this is how it
authentically is. But if you've never been in
these realms, like, how are you?How are you going to critique me
on that? So I feel there's a lot of
disconnect there. And I've hopefully these shows

(41:50):
can do better down the line, bringing in these kind of
discerning voices or maybe more modern voices as judges.
So yeah, it's I just said take the whole thing with a grain of
salt when it comes down to the critiquing of your food, but
looking at it more from that kind of marketing and branding
thing, right? And knowing if and when to do it

(42:10):
right, when to do it in your career.
And not everyone is made for TV to bring out that kind of
personality because that is whatthey look for.
Yeah, it is base level cooking skills.
But if you're a great chef or a great cook, but you have no
personality, you're never going to be on this show.
So it's so many things that thatthey look for.
So it's it's a lot of things to to keep in mind and knowing what

(42:32):
to put into it and what you can take out of it as well.
So it has, I can't say it has opened many doors here, but also
going overseas, a lot of people look down upon it because these
shows are more Hollywood coming out of North America.
So because it's not as maybe clean cut as I look at as master
chef UK professionals, because alot of my friends have done the

(42:53):
shows. One of my old chef from Brighton
won the show itself years ago. So it's great to get his insight
on how the UK show works. And if you're bringing on one
and two, sometimes Michelin starchefs to compete.
We're here. They're bringing on caterers,
private chefs, restaurant chefs,They're bringing so many
different kinds of people and different kind of activations or

(43:13):
challenges. So it's, it's very different
where some of us, we've worked for 10 years straight doing
tasting menus. And then they're like, OK,
you're doing this challenge. It's -5 outside or 5° and you
got to cook for 300 people on a butane burner.
It makes no sense. How am I going to portray my
best self? And then you get those critiques
and it messes with you mentally.But you just have to understand,

(43:35):
definitely this is what it is, right?
And just knowing that, hey, thisis what it's going to be like,
just enjoy the process. So I feel a lot of people put
too much weight or too much pressure on themselves when
they're competing on these shows.
But even for, I guess the, the general public, knowing that
this isn't the the realistic role of what it's like to be in
a chef or be a chef in a lot of these areas.

(43:55):
So open, I guess, say maybe somedoors here, some of my guests
have hired me because they're like, oh, we've seen you on TV
and whatnot, which is hey, whichis great.
But again, just staying true to your authentic self.
Some people might put on a personality.
So if it's content I put out on socials or on TV, that is who I
am on these shows. At least for Top Chef, they're
editing it down and you basically sign away your rights.

(44:18):
So it is on how they want to depict you.
But yeah, it's just, it's, it's an interesting world when it
comes to food TV, especially forwhen I was growing up seeing the
likes of Jamie Oliver, Gordon Ramsay and whatnot.
It's food TV is a, it's a whole nother world.
But now with social media at theforefront of, of media and
whatnot, we have a lot more control.
So we're seeing a lot more content creators and chefs and

(44:40):
whatnot going that route becausethey have full control.
So it's great to see. I think those areas leveraged a
lot more and you're starting to see a lot more content on
Instagram, Tiktok, even YouTube and whatnot, taking over the old
school world of say, the Food Network here in North America
where people have more control over their voice and how they
want to depict and showcase themselves, which honestly I

(45:01):
think is great. And it's a lot more wholesome
and a lot more authentic. And I think that world of
content and food media, I think we're again at the tip of the
iceberg on what this new world can be.
But I think we're going to find a lot more authentic kind of
holistic content come to market than these high dramatized game
show like. Yeah, I mean that mean you
couldn't sum it up better. I mean, in the end plus key and

(45:23):
be it with private dining or be it with kind of portraying
yourself in media. I think you have to be careful
with how much access you give search.
I mean people do something. But also you said very, very
well that you need to know what you're getting into.
You go with a grain of salt. And also if you can make and if
you can match your priorities with the with the television of
the producers priorities to to make your brand or to to know
when is the right time to to if you are a product and how do you

(45:45):
find the product market fit? I think it's a very yeah, it's a
very business point of view. You have to look at it as a, as
selling yourself. And there's, I mean, there's
nothing wrong with selling yourself as long as you've
established what you want to sell, how you want to sell and
when is it going to be for you at the right time.
And I think also what you touched upon this is
demoralization and how chefs have, this does have effect on
chefs of either people watching or people being in it, people

(46:08):
not even getting to be on it because they have like, say, put
their names on a list and they don't get to be there and things
like that. And that connects me and gives
me the right time to, to pivot onto the Burn Chef project.
I would like to know more about this.
I've, I've read about it, I've seen how the initiative works,
but I think it's very, very unique by itself.
But yeah, it would be nice. First of all, you just tell us
on on what's it about, how you'dcome to know about it and and

(46:29):
what does it work like? Yeah, so the Burn Chef Project
is an NGO organization that started in the Uki believe in
29. I'm not mistaken with our main
mission to break the stigma around mental health within the
food and hospitality sector. As we know is a has been a
massive issue and or problem forfor years and probably more so

(46:50):
now than ever with burnout, withthe different kind of problems
that we've had around substance abuse, race, racism, even sexual
abuse and what not in in our industry.
And then even thinking about some of the icons that we've
we've lost, unfortunately to theproblems with mental health and
the problems with with suicide, right?
And people thinking, unfortunately, that is the the

(47:12):
only option at the end of the day.
So when you think of top level Michelin star chefs losing a
star and unfortunately with the kind of pressures of keeping
those appearances up or keeping their their stars there and how
much work and effort it takes tokeep that.
Or even when you think of food media, we recently lost a
massive chef that was a residenton the Food Network in the
States and especially Anthony Bourdain years ago, who is an

(47:34):
international icon. These are all people that
unfortunately lost their their battle with their own mental
mental health, right? So this NGO or this movement has
really started pre COVID, massively blown up throughout
and now has reached around the whole world one around just
breaking the stigma again aroundmental health and then creating

(47:57):
free access to support mechanisms to training, to
education, to support, to reallyhelp anybody who is in need.
If it's down to the line cooks, the owners and operations or
owners and operators upset businesses all the way up to
culinary schools. So we as an international
organization, we've been in hundreds of countries around the

(48:20):
world giving talks to culinary schools, to massive businesses,
working at some of the biggest trade shows here in North
America, across Europe. And really trying to, one, just
build awareness about this problem within our line of work.
But then also showcasing the solutions because I feel it's
easy to say, hey, this is a problem.

(48:41):
And that was one thing I was always taught, never bring a
problem to your chef. You can bring the problem, but
make sure that you have a solution ready to go.
And that was, I guess the main scope of our founder.
Now all our ambassadors, I'm oneof the chief ambassadors here in
Canada for the, the movement about creating open places to
talk about what is going on and the problems.

(49:03):
But again, creating or helping build out the the support
systems. So if it's training around maybe
the substance abuse problems that we have within our line of
work or even around burnout and how to really take care of our
body and our mind, things that maybe were never put as an
importance in our line of work. And knowing that if we don't

(49:23):
take care of our diet, our sleep, our physical and mental
health and working these hours and with these kind of pressures
like this is where it can lead to.
And we're seeing this time and time again.
And it's, I don't want to get obviously too dark, but like how
many people do we have to lose to their mental health within
this industry for us to really take this seriously.
So we've worked with some of thebiggest organizations in in

(49:47):
Europe, in US, in Canada and so many different parts of the
world really one boys. Our main step was to just build
awareness that this is happening.
And now to showcasing, this is what we have brought to market
to really help support people. So coming in to do trainings and
what not if that's in person virtually you name it.

(50:07):
We are working with so many organizations with donations to
bring this basically to the general public for free.
So no matter who you are, you can go on to this interface if
it's on their website, going on to their podcasts and what not.
Only different realms that we'vebuilt out for us to OfferUp
support. And even with a crisis hotline,

(50:29):
if you are at that kind of brink, there's 24/7 text or call
hotlines where we patch you in directly in to this hotline with
trained therapist to help you talk things out.
Because obviously the last thingwe want is someone to think that
their only option is to to take their own life, right?
So really trying to focus on that, that major issue.

(50:54):
And that's one of a big reasons I've taken that step back to
focus on these problems, right? I find looking again, going back
when I built out this wonderlessprivate dining kind of
experiences, I'm like, let's look at these reasons why
restaurants don't always do wellor collapse or fail.
And a big part is your high turnover rate.

(51:15):
Or again, we've been in waiver shortages in Toronto, Canada,
around the world for years. Look at the main reasons why.
Why should I bring a restaurant to market?
If sure, I can pay myself maybe decently well or my sous chef or
the head chef or whatever, but then we're struggling to find
dishwashers or server assistance, whatever.
Why not actually focus on the real issues?

(51:37):
So if and when I do bring a brick and mortar to market, we
have a sustainable business product.
We've always looked at sustainability from produce,
where it's sourced from, how we deal with it, The waste that
goes into the garbage, yes, that's beautiful.
But this organization is focusedon the sustainability of people.
And I feel if we focus on that first, everything else will

(51:59):
follow. So I feel we've always focused
on the end goal of 0 waste. And it's great to see these
restaurants around the world that built sustainable kind of
models based on their food practices.
But it would be great to see that recognition on the
staffing. It's great to see the Michelin
guy to give out your your green stars, if you will.
But why not give out another * if you will, for restaurants

(52:21):
that are building sustainable practices for the people working
within? If that's based on the hours,
the benefits, the the the healthbenefits, the food systems, you
name it, I feel that is where the biggest priority should be
placed within said businesses and everything else will follow.
No, I totally agree with what what you said because it's funny
that even if they don't considerlike giving another star or

(52:42):
giving another recognition, I think if they just stop like
awarding people who are abusing and exploiting workforce are
also like, I mean all these sustainable restaurants that
you've mentioned and we have been on the inside and we know
how these restaurants get sustainable.
I mean making an ice cream from almond milk waste or using a lot
of things which are going into waste is being done.

(53:03):
Yes. And that is nice if you extend
them the life of a product and take it to the most extremes of
it. But again, at what cost is that
being done by your staff having to stay extra for that that kind
of operation? Is it actually sustainable?
Or maybe maybe you just need to compost it and not have to have
your staff work extra hours to make it sustainable so that you
can have a have a story behind this dish that you will then

(53:25):
serve. And then the mission inspector
would find that your restaurant is sustainable because you
served this dish and you completely forget the human
factor behind it. And I think the job that's being
done things Chris, Chris Hall isthe founder, if I'm not wrong,
and everybody behind it, people like you who are being
ambassadors of it. I think it's a very important
job. And it's, it's very interesting

(53:45):
for me because I think not many restaurants and not many things
done by chefs have been able to grow up and skate and volume to
be able to connect chefs together.
I think many people have tried starting like chef communities
and built a network around it. But I think what's what you guys
have achieved with it? Also the the content I've seen
like the material that that is, which is very resourceful, the
helpline that you mentioned. So I think kudos to you for, for

(54:07):
yeah, being a part of something like this.
And yeah, I think it's somethingvery important.
I think I hope the governments and restaurants or these
entities which kind of not control restaurants, but have a
kind of say of how restaurants will function in the future.
I hope they give enough importance to this.
They see the movement that's happening, which is made by the
people that will make this industry work or stop where it

(54:28):
is or redefine or leave it. So I think it's important to
take care of these these values.And that's it.
Like I have, we both have, right, a lot of love and passion
for this final work. And I only want to have more
people, inspire more people to come into this industry to work
in so many different ways that we can right.
But it's about creating the right environment for them with

(54:49):
the younger generation, putting more of an importance on their
well-being, their time management, all these things.
That's, that's the generation that's going to come working as
these young commie chefs and whatnot, before they go on to
bigger roles and whatnot. But if these practices aren't
going to put in, be put into place, none of these people are
going to come work. So you're going to see
unfortunately more of these businesses and restaurants

(55:10):
unfortunately close or fail in, in in short terms.
But like it's just create these realms.
The younger generation will comein and then they're going to
create these beautiful kind of restaurants or experiences for
us. So I think that importance has
to be done from a restaurant standpoint, but also things that
should be taught in all these culinary schools, right?
Based on your mental and your physical well-being and just how

(55:33):
to deal with recovery, what you should do maybe before shift,
after shift. Because I've had so many friends
that maybe they have two to three Red Bulls or energy drinks
during service. And then they have heart
problems at the age of mid 30s or have friends that are in
their mid 40s and they've had knee replacements or hip
replacements because they've been bending or like cooking the

(55:53):
wrong way. All these different things,
right? That we've never put an
importance on. We have to think about them
before they're a problem insteadof after the fact.
And I think the more that we cando that, we'll build a lot
better of a sustainable industryfor everyone around the world.
So it's nice that the Burnt Chefhas built an international
recognition around, I would say most of the biggest countries

(56:15):
around the world. And now we're starting to really
delve into most countries, whichis really nice to see
ambassadorships around the countries or around the world.
Really one, building the awareness, but now building
smaller cohorts within with it, starting in the UK, working with
the NHS and with top brands and now expanding and starting as
our own charitable charitable organization in Canada, in the

(56:39):
US, working with local government organizations to
build out more kind of support. So as this NGO or initiative
grows, we're going to start now partnering with bigger entities
to really build out these kind of support systems.
Because one, it's nice to have that international recognization
for the company or the, the NGO,but it's nice to have one kind

(56:59):
of community because you have all these small ones around the
world. But for one massive global hub,
it's it's a great way to have a network or network or that
community base for all of us that work within this line of
work. Yeah, I think, I think, I think
it's super important because I, I speak to a lot of chefs
through the podcast, outside thepodcast, through work.
And a lot of them, I mean, there's a lot of friction.

(57:19):
Even if I'm not in restaurants right now, I heard about it and
I know there's a lot of frictionwith the younger workforce going
in. And I mean it, it all depends on
how as somebody who's been in the industry and has had it the
hard way can take it. Either you can see it as many of
them see it as the younger generation doesn't want to work.
They're complaining a lot. They want to know what they're
going to get before they know what they're going to give.
Or you can see it in a way, thisis a generation which is more

(57:41):
aware. This is a generation which is
comfortable with saying that, OK, I'm, I'm seeing the
therapist or that I'm, I'm goingfor counseling.
It's a it's a generation which is more aware about their
emotions. Of course, it's also generation
which is certainly privileged, which is not, which is not
coming out of a war and it is not going for just the first job
that I can find. But I mean, that's their
reality. And if if, if they're asking

(58:03):
questions, you can't just criticize that they're asking
questions where you need to look.
I mean, even if that was your normal, you can't just keep
going with it just because it was that that was your normal
and not somebody else's normal. And they have all the right to
ask. I think it's platform like these
which can kind of reduce this friction because if you already
equip these chefs, not just the younger generation to have these

(58:23):
tools, but also the chefs who are receiving this younger
generation to kind of have the right tools to answer these
questions, to be understanding what perspective somebody who's
asking for these things is coming from.
I think this kind of would set the right platform to be able
to, to stop this rotation that you the fluctuation, the
rotation that's happening, whichis, which is not good for, for
business in general. If it's if it's not good for

(58:44):
business, it's not good for any of us.
Yeah, super interesting all the work coming out of this.
Yeah, No, it's. It's, it's interesting, right,
because we've as, again, I'm nota parent yet, but the older
generation, we've, I've been taught, we've been taught to ask
these questions or just to ask questions in general.
So now as younger people are coming to the workforce and
they're asking questions the, the older generations like why

(59:04):
you do like just do the work type thing, right?
Like, why don't you just put your head down?
And that's how I was taught, right?
But I'm like, we've trained a whole generation to stand up for
themself to ask these questions,be in better workplaces.
But then when they come asking them, we get angry about it or
we're, we're not happy at the fact that they're asking for
like what the benefit is of working in these organizations.
It's not like, oh, I can just now put this name on my resume,

(59:27):
but I have to work for 16 hours a day for free or minimum wage
and I barely have a place to live and or eat that.
I think that mentality has shifted and there's still a time
and a place to do these kind of internships.
But I think the bottom line or that bottom bar has to be raised
for any of these kind of businesses or restaurants to
keep moving forward with. Definitely, I mean, like using

(59:49):
that as the right moment. I think.
Just some thoughts on wrapping up.
Imran, if I had to like ask you about like think about yourself
when you were in this position of like and for many of us go
what happened And like things happened in life, events
happened that led us to like, you know, rethink, OK, where I
am is at the right place. Is am I capable of more?
Should I start this private dining experience?
Should I go for Top Chef and things like this which lead to a

(01:00:11):
pivot? Outside the kitchen, you know, I
think being the easy ways to just be in, be in the circle
like a hamster and keep going onwhat you're doing.
But for people listening to this, it's people who are kind
of inspired by stories like yours and they want to do more
outside the kitchen. What kind of advice or what kind
of inspiration could you give topeople who are listening?
And they know they want to pivot.
They also know where they want to pivot to, but they just feel

(01:00:34):
it's easier to be where I am right now.
What would you say to them? So I would say the biggest
thing, especially because I do alot of I guess mentorship or
like work like this to, to help these transitions or just that
inspiration as you're coming into the industries, pairing up
those kind of passions, right? We've all come into this
industry to begin with. If you're pivoting in the

(01:00:54):
industry or out of it or coming into it knowing where these kind
of passions lie, right? Because we became into it loving
food. But I think that's the other
thing that people have to understand is that we're not
just chefs. We're not just people that cook
or work with food. There's a million other things
out there that we love and there's ways to monetize that or
build a career around it. For example, I've grown up

(01:01:15):
loving taking photography my whole life, videography kind of
work and whatnot. So pairing off passions like
that, really trying to think where are these kind of
synergies? Do you have, as you mentioned,
you love sociology, a lot of academic work, right?
How can that be paired off with food?
So I think a lot of people have to think about, OK, we have this
base kind of passion for the food world or that industry, but

(01:01:36):
what is another passion that we can pair it with that's going to
really bring a lot of passion toour life on the day-to-day.
And that isn't maybe just in thetraditional realm of working in
these restaurants, right? So when you think of obviously
the my friend Nick, knowing his love for forging and just being
outdoors in general, and the fact that I would say 9 times

(01:01:57):
out of 10, most of his days spent outside in nature, he's
pairing those two passions together, right?
Still being attached to restaurants, still doing dinners
and events, but bringing those worlds together.
One of my other friends here in Canada worked as a chef for
years, but now it's gone into marketing and sales, but is
doing that for one of the top culinary or food based brands in
the world. So again, there's so many ways

(01:02:18):
to pivot. It's just really thinking that
it's not just me working with food.
I can work with food indirectly and still be part of this world,
but pairing in those other interests, if that's around
working within Ng OS or education or sustainability.
I think at least growing up in these traditional problems of
education and whatnot, we've been like race horses work, put

(01:02:41):
your head down and just push. And we've been given these kind
of blinders not to look around, but really trying to take that
time to step back, think about what else do I love?
Do I love to traveler, etcetera.And how can I build that into my
career and build something that's maybe a lot more
rewarding for myself, my family,long term, and just knowing that

(01:03:01):
there is a career or potential for you to build out good money
or a good return for your life. Super, super, super inspiring
what you've said. I mean, looking inwards is the
only way to move forward. And, and I mean, if you can, if
you can be in this position where you can combine passions
when those passions sometimes are not the most obvious.
Sometimes they're not even like you can't directly connect them
to a product or a service or something that you can sell.

(01:03:23):
But I think looking inwards, like what Nick has done, for
example, foraging, who would think you can make a career out
of this and then consult restaurants and how to do that,
help them out to learn that. I think you have to be creative.
And most chefs have it in them because the job requires you to
be creative. But sometimes you need to stop
and look in words. And what else can what else?
What else are we capable of? But yeah, thank you so much,

(01:03:43):
Emraan. It's been, it's been a pleasure
talking to you. Thank you so much for taking
time out. And it's it's so nice to have
somebody with with your kind of experience, with your kind of
contribution that you're making to the to the industry today on
this podcast. Thank you so much.
Thanks for having me man, absolute pleasure now.