July 14, 2023 • 44 mins
eBay's GM Global Fashion, Kirsty Keoghan, takes Ger Keohane (StudioForty9) and Gordon Newman (Omnichannels Stories) on a journey through the mind-blowing world of pre-loved fashion. They stop off at an authentication warehouse (where trust is built), negotiate a mountain of discarded fashion items, and visit Love Island.
To keep never-worn and rarely-worn fashion out of landfill, eBay is going back to its roots so consumers and retailers can enjoy the many benefits of buying and selling pre-loved fashion. The numbers will make your ears pop.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:01):
This is Functional & Fabulous, the omnichannel podcast where we unbox tales of online retail and digital transformation.
In this episode, we go deep into ancient ecommerce legend...
The first ever item ever sold on eBay was in the 90s, was a broken laser pointer.
Ger is very interested...
(00:23):
Excuse me, I've just hit my microphone, I'm so interested.
Gordon talks fashion sense...
That was a nice cardigan.
It was a nice cardigan.
I just don't know that it was an €800 cardigan.
There's a joke...
I have a joke.
And the boys admit their crimes...
We've done a lot of piracy.
I know, well, we haven't... no piracy whatsoever.
(00:45):
No, we have done no piracy whatsoever.
This episode of Functional & Fabulous is brought to you with pride by StudioForty9, retail e-commerce experts, omnichannel growth consultants and cut-through performance marketing specialists.
StudioForty9, where your digital retail success is built.
(01:09):
So hello, I'm thrilled to introduce our guest today, Kirsty Keohan is the General Manager of global fashion at eBay.
She's been with eBay a pretty staggering 12 years, holding multiple roles in soft goods categories such as fashion and home and garden, before coming to focus on fashion globally.
Prior to eBay, Kirsty has had extensive retail experience with companies such as Marks & Spencer, TK Maxx, Brand Alley and Volprivé.
(01:35):
So she certainly understands the retail mindset too.
Hi, Kirsty.
It's lovely to have you here with us today, and we're really looking forward to chatting with you.
Hello, lovely to be here.
Welcome to the podcast, Kirsty.
Thank you.
I suppose, Kirsty, it's been really interesting to look at how eBay has been doing some reinvention of itself over the last few years, particularly in its pre-loved proposition.
(01:57):
Is it fair to say that eBay is going back to its roots a bit here?
Yeah, I mean, it's fair to say.
I would say, so eBay brought the circular economy online, what, nearly 30 years ago.
People would describe us as the OG of selling pre-loved and pre-loved fashion specifically.
So we are one of the world's largest marketplaces, 134 million active daily buyers and 1.7 billion listings.
(02:22):
So we are pretty big.
And it was sort of founded on the principle that people are fundamentally good.
And in fact, the first ever item ever sold on eBay was in the 90s, was a broken laser pointer.
And that back in the 90s, that sort of goes to show that one person's junk is another person's treasure.
And so we've been really focused on building trusted experiences for our customers, customers being both our buyers and our sellers, because that's what the community of our marketplace is all about.
(02:55):
And so what we've really been doing is trying to take our role as the enabler as circular, driving circular economy to sort of a new level.
And so that means that we've been thinking about supporting our existing businesses, as well as, like, people that sell peer to peer, so you and I, to be able to come to eBay and sell inventory in all different kinds of conditions.
(03:17):
So from new to repaired, and we've talked a lot about imperfect, particularly in fashion.
And so this gives us, like, a real major advantage to help particularly brands and retailers when they've got excess inventory or overproduction of a place that they're able to come and sell that inventory and really clearly tell our customers what that inventory is.
(03:42):
I read an article during the week, it had the headline, Stop dumping your castoffs on us, Ghanaian clothes traders tell EU.
And it kind of described the extent of the landfill generated as an environmental catastrophe.
And there was a photograph with the article of an enormous mountain, like a huge mountain of textiles waste.
(04:05):
And so I suppose what it was discussing was the possibility of the European-wide legislation to compel the fashion industry to help address this by introducing the extended producer responsibility regulation.
And it feels to me like the world is absolutely more than ready for some new solutions by companies like eBay.
How do you think you guys fit into the picture to help out in this regard?
(04:27):
Yeah, I mean, those images are horrendous, aren't they, right?
So I think there are a few ways, right?
So the mission that we are on is we don't own any inventory, we don't buy any inventory.
The mission that we've talked about, we can come on to it later, but with our partnership with Love Island, for example, is how do we help people extend the life of their fashion items?
(04:50):
And actually, it's not just fashion items, but that's the bit that I'm particularly focused on.
So what we're trying to do is make it really much easier for brands and retailers who, their first focus might not be on pre-loved items or items that are not perfect.
I get that.
Their focus has been on selling new items.
(05:12):
And so how can we take that heavy lifting out of selling, as I say, not new in season items for brands?
And so there are multiple ways in which we try to do that.
And so we've partnered with companies such as ACS and Reskinned in the UK.
And they're both experts in being either able to buy, like, rental solutions, or they're able to take inventory that brands have.
(05:39):
They can take it in directly from stores or from customers so they can run take-backs.
That's what Reskinned does.
They take that in, they clean it, they grade it, they list it.
And then they send that on to customers on eBay.
And ACS does a similar thing.
And actually, if that item actually can no longer be worn, they're able to repair that.
(06:01):
So ACS are experts in repair.
So it could be missing a button, or it could be a tear in it.
Repair that and it's as good as new.
There's no need for that to come to the end of its life.
So what we try to do is work with partners like that that are able to responsibly then recycle those items as well.
So that deals with the, I would say, the more immediate, like, you know, I can't put this stuff into landfill or ship it into that pile outside of the UK to help brands take more responsibility.
(06:32):
But one of the things, I don't know if you saw, that we announced just under two weeks ago that we are acquiring a company called Serta Logo.
Now, what we've been trying to do is tackle the problem further up the supply chain.
And what Serta Logo does is they provide, almost like a digital passport, so it's a QR code.
(06:54):
They're in over 500 million items already today.
And so consumers can easily scan that.
And at the moment, they authenticate those items.
But what those, what we're hoping to do is work with Serta Logo to give brands an option to, could you relist that on eBay?
So it's much easier for consumers, much easier for brands, but it also gives brands much more traceability and an understanding of what's going on with their items.
(07:17):
A lot of brands don't know what happens to their items after they've sold them to them when they were new.
This is also the benefits of working with people like Reskinned and ACS.
They can provide back information to the brands to say, I don't know if you're aware, if you come down to the warehouse, all these items, we've had all of these come back in a take-back or they're all broken, right?
(07:39):
So these brands can then perhaps address some issues that they might have in production that they otherwise would never have seen because they're not getting involved in the second life of those items.
Because in their first life, if there was a damage to the product or it was broken and it was outside of the returns period, they've just forgotten about it.
(08:01):
They would be unknowledgeable about it.
And so it's interesting, some of the buyers from the brands, when they've come down, they've found this so incredibly useful, this information, so that they can make different decisions when they're buying in the first place.
It's also educated brands a lot more about the componentry that goes into items.
So you might say, oh, I've got a cotton t-shirt that can be recycled, but actually if you've added something on it that can't be recycled, something polyester or something man-made, actually it's really hard for anyone to then recycle that item.
(08:36):
And so thinking about how they produce more responsibly in the first place has also been really useful.
Because when you see it in front of you, you go, right, oh, I know it's made of cotton, but it can't be recycled in the way that I thought because I've added X, Y or Z to that item.
Yeah, it seems kind of almost obvious, but also so easy.
As soon as you add on a few sparkles or some glitter, all of a sudden you've made this product non-recyclable.
(09:02):
The take-back solution, it sounds so elegant, this idea.
And every time I speak with anybody about the extent of returns in women's fashion to a customer, let's say a person who's not involved in ecommerce, they're always staggered and stunned by the amount of returns that are in that business.
(09:26):
The whole take-back piece there that eBay is offering, for retailers, how do they get involved in that?
Or how does that look like from a practical perspective?
In take-back?
Yeah.
So this is the one thing we've been trying to do, is get industry to come together.
I would say it was fairly nascent about how people were thinking about circularity.
(09:49):
A lot of brands were trying to solve it in multiple different ways, which actually then doesn't make it easy for industry to come up with solutions that are scalable.
There is somewhat some consolidation of those solutions.
But plainly and simply, if a brand wants to do something around take-back, get in contact with eBay, me, my team.
(10:14):
If you go on LinkedIn, you'll find enough of us working in fashion that you can get in contact with.
What we do with brands is we partner with them.
And we say, what is it you're trying to solve?
And how do you want to solve that?
And then we try to plug them into the different solutions.
So we work with lots of partners in the technical space to make that happen.
(10:35):
And as I say, now we're working with partners that can physically handle those goods as well.
They can take it directly from people's stores.
It can be sent directly to the third party.
You might want to own take-back dispatch.
You might want to give a voucher out when someone brings something back.
What we do is we try to be flexible enough in our approach so it fits in with what a brand's trying to achieve as well.
(10:59):
So in my head, I kind of imagine this being, like, you go in and there's maybe, like, not a bin as in a rubbish bin, but you can place your clothes in...
I think M&S might've done something like this where they've got, like, these...
Shwopping...
Yeah, Shwopping, that was it...
(11:20):
I remember it now.
Joanna Lumley, I think was on the campaign.
So you go in and you can dump your clothes.
Is that right?
Or are we talking returning items at an individual level, or a bit of both?
A bit of both, right?
So with people like River Island or brands like River Island,
what you can do is you can take something into a store
(11:40):
and if you're there buying something new
then you can give that in
and that then gets sent off to Reskinned, for example,
or you can send it, you can go online,
register to do something with it,
register an item that you want to take back
and then any packaging,
doesn't need to be a bag or anything from Reskinned.
You just send that off to Reskinned and they'll receive it and process it.
(12:03):
So that's what I say, like, there's multiple different solutions.
What we're trying to do is make it as easy as possible for consumers so that they don't have to think twice about this.
If they have to think twice about this, then consumers tend to do nothing.
And so that's why we're trying to think of solutions that are really simple, easy to understand.
Some of the amazing things that we've seen out of this is, I hear from brands saying, commercially I'm just not sure that's going to work.
(12:27):
It's going to cost us, like, loads of money to do this.
Interestingly, what brands have seen is by offering a take-back solution, they've seen an increase in customers that they perhaps were unaware of.
So they didn't have their details registered.
So it's a great customer acquisition tool for brands, and brands that will compensate a customer with a form of voucher or discount tend to be six or seven times more valuable, because they've gone in, they've spent that voucher and they become really sticky with that brand.
(12:58):
And so there are actually lots of other benefits that we perhaps weren't thinking about, or brands weren't thinking about when they're thinking about doing a take-back scheme.
But it's become really important for customers that brands are taking circularity and sustainability more seriously.
And therefore they want to shop with brands that are thinking about this.
I think it's really important because we're at a tipping point where the customers are starting to become aware of their impact and the choices that they're making.
(13:28):
And they would like to be told that, well, okay, you're entitled to have the opportunity of choosing, you're entitled to try it on.
You're entitled to send it back and you're entitled not to feel guilty about doing that.
And if you do that, then we have solutions in place.
And it seems like it's such an elegant, to my mind, it's such an elegant thing where you have a degenerator of lots and lots of product that potentially may end up being unwanted or going to those landfills, meeting the controller of lots and lots of demand and plugging the two into each other.
(14:02):
I really, really like that solution.
I was just going to ask, when that product goes back to somebody like a Reskinned, how does this, so I can envisage it, how does this pop up then on eBay?
Would it be through the brand's store, or would it be through the Reskinned store?
(14:26):
Would it be through a normal listing?
How would then a customer who's interested in extending the life of, and buying some pre-loved clothing, how would they go about finding this?
So we have a pre-loved hub on eBay.
So if you go to the, on the eBay app, across the top, there's a button that says pre-loved and you can go there and then it takes you to a host of storefronts.
(14:55):
So there is a Monsoon powered by ACS storefront.
So it's a Monsoon environment.
And then we've got a River Island powered by Reskinned.
So they form partnerships with the brand and then they sort of set up their own shops on eBay on behalf of the brand.
So it really takes the heavy lifting out of this for a brand.
(15:17):
But the brand, but the customer can still get that brand experience, right?
For the brands that they love.
So if you love River Island, you can go and immerse yourself in pre-loved River Island.
Yeah, that's it.
You come to the River Island storefront, click in and then you're surrounded, or you can, you click in and you can shop everything River Island pre-loved.
(15:38):
Fabulous, love this.
Yeah, you ran a campaign during Black Friday as well last year.
Was it the Better Than You campaign?
Yeah, so we made a decision last Black Friday actually based on customer feedback.
So what we were hearing when we surveyed our customers, which we do all the time, Black Friday is typically a period around over-consumption.
(16:01):
And our customers have said to us that they want to try to make better decisions when purchasing more responsibly during that Black Friday period.
And actually sustainability, buying refurbished or pre-loved, is really important.
So we made a decision as a business that during the Black Friday period in any of our marketing assets or anything you saw on site, we would only feature pre-loved, imperfect or refurbished items.
(16:29):
So that was across home and garden, it was across electronics, it was across fashion.
I think we're the, well, we are the first retailer ever to do that over such a key trading period and our customers responded really well.
Our brands also loved it because it gave them an outlet for that amazing inventory that they could put in front of their customers as well.
(16:51):
Really, a really powerful message.
And, you know, you said that the customers responded really well.
How did you measure that?
What was the, you know, what kind of response did you see?
So we compared it to previous Black Friday periods.
I mean, there's been a lot of turbulence over Black Friday, hasn't there, with Covid and all sorts?
(17:13):
And also in line with sales, right?
With any other organisation, you know, it's how many people are clicking on the banners, therefore, you know, how interested are our customers in this?
And then who goes on to convert and make a purchase?
So there are some items we struggled to keep up with, right?
Because that's the nature of having refurbished, you know, don't have infinite amounts.
(17:34):
So what was interesting, we had to really think about trading our business very differently because we didn't have thousands and thousands and thousands of individual items backed up, but we needed to have either something similar.
And so we had to really flex how we thought about trading our business throughout that period.
But for us, it was exciting.
(17:55):
I love being in the office and around the team during periods like that because it is really exciting to see, you know, all of the work that we've been doing with brands and our sellers, it comes to life in that real key trading period and sets us off in the run-ups to Christmas as well.
Did you see lots of, like, luxury fashion getting snapped up during that period?
(18:18):
Yeah, I mean, yes, definitely.
So we have our, we authenticate luxury sneakers.
So sneakers over £100, watches over £1,500, handbags over £500.
And what we saw is it's not just about the actual price point.
Customers are looking for better value.
So, like, totally appreciate that the cost of living crisis has really hit some people harder than others.
(18:45):
It's much more broader now that people have just got less money to spend.
So what we need to do is put great-value options in front of our customers based on different price points.
So again, we've changed the way that we think about, it's not just a discount, it's an actual price point.
But interestingly, there are lots of people still looking for better value in luxury items.
(19:07):
So the categories that I mentioned, people still want to go and treat themselves.
It's Christmas, it's still a gift in time.
And that actually doesn't remain around Christmas, it's generally,
people are looking, how can I make a saving on some of those luxury items?
And when you come to eBay, I think we had our Love Island launch last night and Amy Bannerman, she had rails of amazing finds that she'd found on eBay of things that are going to be going into the villa next weekend.
(19:35):
And people are so surprised about the condition, the brands that you can find, and then what great value it is.
And so people don't feel the need.
It shows you don't need to go in and always have to spend loads and loads of money on things.
You can still get designer items at really great value.
And just so I'm clear, one of the great things about eBay early doors was this whole, you could find these even unusual items or obviously the luxury items, but there was always this concern about, are you getting the real deal?
(20:11):
So eBay now are going through this authentication process.
I can imagine that's a very time-intensive kind of a thing.
Do you guys see a role for AI in this kind of area?
And how are you doing the authentication?
Yeah, so actually the authentication should feel no different apart from just give you complete confidence.
(20:31):
So when you buy any of those items I said, so sneakers, watches and handbags, and actually jewellery in the US and trading cards, what happens is you have a, there's a blue tick to say it's authenticity guaranteed.
And so imagine I'm selling a handbag and Ger, you come and buy my handbag.
(20:52):
Instead of shipping it to you, I just ship it to the authentication centre.
And then we have experts there that look at your item, check, is it what Kirsty said she was going to send you, firstly?
Is it the colour that I said I was going to send you?
So is it as described?
And then is it authentic?
So independent authenticators review that and then they're able to send it on directly to you.
(21:16):
And Ger, say you were to receive that and you're like, oh, actually, it doesn't suit me that handbag.
I want to send it back.
That item, if a seller offers returns, goes back through the authentication centre.
So there's protections both ways.
And so it sounds like that's actually quite a long process, but you know, items come in in the morning, they're out by the evening.
So actually that peace of mind is really important for customers.
(21:37):
So it doesn't take long.
The comfort of knowing that what you're getting is the real deal.
For the seller too, until you'd mentioned that fact, I never even thought about the return.
But of course, if you're returning something because you don't like it, then you need to protect the seller that they're not swapping out.
I don't know if you sell many Birkins, but they're not swapping out a Birkin going back and forth.
(22:01):
Birkin for a brick.
I'm sure it's been attempted.
I'm sure you've caught people.
I mean, yeah, we've seen lots of things.
And that's, for me, this is the brilliant thing about authenticity guarantee that it protects both ways as well.
And it just gives people that peace of mind about parting with their cash on eBay and knowing that they're trusted both ways.
(22:28):
Can you give us an idea of what the authentication centre looks like?
I've got a vision in my head of this big warehouse, hundreds of people opening boxes, checking things.
Am I thinking right there?
I mean, I love going.
I love a warehouse and I love going.
Me too, same.
It's rooted in me from being a buyer.
Yeah, well, do you know what?
(22:48):
It's really interesting.
There's like really different environments.
So it's an undisclosed location, but it is a big warehouse, but it's sort of split up, very highly secure.
It's not got eBay written on it or anything like that.
Once you've gone through all the security checks to get in the building, the first part of the building that you walk into, we've got the sneakers.
(23:12):
They're going up on conveyors up to the authenticators.
It's very high-tech.
And then there's loud music playing.
There's, like, loads of really cool authenticators that're sniffing the trainers, doing exactly what we've said that they do.
So it goes through a multi-point inspection and that's run by the Sneaker Con team who are experts in authenticating sneakers.
(23:33):
But actually then you start to go into, there's another room through another door.
And so you sort of, like, get into the core of the building, which is where we have our handbag authenticators.
So it's, you know, it comes in, it's all caged.
It's really highly secure.
It's much more sterile as well.
You know, they're wearing the gloves like they do in the adverts because we want to make sure that when we receive those items, we are treating them with the, you know, the respect and care that they deserve.
(24:01):
And then you go into a further, like, vault where we have our watches authentication.
And there's some really, really high-tech equipment in there.
There's drawers of all the different dials and bezel, you know, to make sure that we're authenticating each individual brand appropriately.
And there's a machine in there.
I don't know what it's called.
(24:22):
You can put the watch in and it magnifies it.
So I don't know how many degrees, but you can see right into the heart of the watch.
It's amazing.
And that technology means that our authenticators, it's a company that works called Stoll.
If they were to be unsure or wanted a second opinion, what they could do is they could use that magnifier and then they could real life authenticate that with an authenticator in the US or in Germany.
(24:50):
So you could have three or four people all looking in real life at that watch.
It is amazing.
It's an amazing service.
Is there a charge, like much of an additional charge for this or...?
No charge.
That's a significant investment in physical infrastructure by eBay to support that.
So it's a real signal about how serious you guys are in providing that authenticated service.
(25:17):
It's fabulous.
I would love to see it.
Everyone wants to come, but it's, like, top secret.
And you know what?
Like in all seriousness, as I said at the beginning, everything that we do is rooted in how do we provide the most trusted service for our customers.
And the reason why lots of people do want to come to the authentication centre, like some people have been lucky to come and see it.
(25:43):
However, what we're trying to do is make sure that we don't disclose everything.
If you start telling everybody everything that you do, then it means that unfortunately the people that are creating unauthentic items, they just understand what we're looking for.
So we have to be upping our game all of the time because people will try to better this.
But thankfully, we've got a range of experts in each of the fields that means that we're hopefully always one step ahead.
(26:09):
Great.
And really called, as you say to that eBay brand of being that trusted marketplace for all kinds of products, new, used, pre-loved, however we want to describe it.
And it's, I was going to say, the same, it's the same with refurbished, right?
So whilst my expertise is in fashion, it's the same with our refurbished programmes.
(26:33):
So with electronics, so you have to have a license to be able to refurbish a lot of electronic items.
And so our electronics team make sure that those sellers that say that they are equipped to do that have been checked and verified as well.
So we do take trust really seriously.
(26:53):
And moving along from trust a little bit, and it's something a little bit more, I don't know, exciting.
How is the Love Island partnership going?
That must be a really exciting and big deal for eBay to be involved in that.
It was such a big news item at the time.
And such a spin from the prior fast-fashion sponsors.
(27:16):
Yes.
That would have been involved in the show.
So love to hear more.
It was such an interesting case...
Excuse me,
I've just hit my microphone,
I'm so interested.
You're excited for the next season, aren't you?
So I'd love to hear how it's been working out for eBay from behind the scenes.
(27:37):
Yeah.
I mean, so yesterday I was in London where we had our press event for series 10.
And so this series, we are not just going to provide all the fashion items.
We are also going to be the headline sponsor, which means we're going to have an even bigger opportunity to talk to people about shopping pre-love first and trying to, you know, nudge people to make different decisions when they're thinking about buying fashion.
(28:04):
Look, we were, if I think back to when we, you know, two series ago, so this is our third season, you know, we were, honestly, we weren't sure how it was going to go.
It was really new for us.
But we just fundamentally knew that bringing two powerful sort of brands together meant that we had a real opportunity in the industry to sort of start to change stigmas, create, you know, get people being more innovative and people to start, you know, changing their shopping behaviours.
(28:37):
And we were so grateful that, you know, that was the outcome.
We've seen, if I look back at the last two series, we've seen a 1400% increase in people coming to eBay to search pre-loved fashion between series eight and nine.
Yeah, and we've seen a 24% increase in businesses that are coming with circular fashion solutions to sell on eBay.
(29:04):
And so it's great that we've been able to signal to businesses that eBay is the place for you to come and sell your, you know, your pre-loved fashion items.
And the mission, like what we all try to do with each season is we think about this as nudging, not judging.
So our job is to encourage people to extend the life cycle of their items.
(29:26):
And what we're not expecting is everybody to only shop pre-loved and everybody to not buy fast fashion.
And what we're trying to do is get people to make small decisions, small changes that will have a much bigger impact.
And the stat that I always find overwhelming is if each month, instead of buying a new fashion item, you bought a pre-loved fashion item in the UK, that could prevent 6,000 tonnes of textile waste going to landfill.
(30:00):
That's 260,000 filled suitcases.
That's just by making one change to what you're doing each month.
And so, you know, when people think, you know, about making changes, I always say just start, just make one small change because actually if everybody collectively does that together, it makes a real difference.
And our mission for this season is, hot off the press, is putting a stop to single-wear summer.
(30:26):
And so this is the behaviour, I mean, I don't know if you do this, that you're going on holiday and you're like, what am I going to take with me?
And then instead of planning in advance what you're going to take, you know, shopping pre-loved, pulling out stuff that you already have in your wardrobe, it's trying to get people to think differently about this last-minute panic buying that they do.
(30:48):
And actually a lot of those items will go in people's suitcases, might not get worn, might not get returned.
And it just creates that, you know, it contributes to the problem.
So we're just trying to get people to think a little bit differently about when they go on holiday this season.
So our mission this year is to put a stop to single-wear summer.
Great, I love it.
I love the kind of, it was a value I came across during the week in another business, it was act, sorry, aim big and act small, you know, have the dream and make all of the little steps and know that the little steps have to be made.
(31:23):
It sounds like a really exciting time for eBay in general, you know, and I'm sure for you it must be really gratifying because, you know, eBay, I suppose, when I was growing up, we'll say with eBay, it was the place that my brother bought secondhand cars, my father got some tools, you know, you got an old lamp, you know, that kind of stuff.
(31:44):
So it must be very gratifying for you, you know, as a general manager for fashion globally to see this kind of reinvigoration and a new energy in these categories, you know, that we're talking about.
I mean, look, I think this is the biggest thing to have happened in the fashion industry since I've been in it.
(32:05):
Apart from if you look back into the digital age when everybody went online, but the legislation that is coming in or hopefully will come in that ensures that brands need to take more responsibility and all of us as individuals take more responsibility, I think is the biggest thing that brands and retailers have had to think about, particularly in fashion.
(32:28):
And I, you know, I think it's, you know, when you look back to those pictures of, you know, thousands and millions of fashion items, I think this is exactly the right, the way that we're going.
And what's exciting for me is thinking about the innovation that is in this space.
So, I mean, Ger, you mentioned AI, but there's, you know, there's lots of innovation happening in this space.
(32:52):
And it's coming through in different forms through different people that perhaps hadn't thought about working in the fashion industry.
So we had our, we launched a circular innovation fund in September last year to, because what we're finding is there's loads of businesses that've got amazing ideas, but they're perhaps not big enough to go to some of these bigger brands.
(33:13):
And so what we wanted to do was really turbocharge their business's growth so that they were, you know, more scalable solutions.
So is it around repair?
Is it the dye that they use in production?
So we launched our circular innovation fund to really do that.
And, you know, we had over 500 businesses apply for the fund.
(33:34):
We then got it down to six finalists.
We had one winner, which was the seam that provides repair services or alteration services.
So again, another option for you to alter some of the stuff that you have in your wardrobe.
And this is for me, this is what's so exciting that we're coupling fashion and innovation and just thinking really differently.
(33:57):
And so it's, you know, it's like a proud moment to be able to work for a company like eBay that, you know, is really trying to drive the agenda here and pull the industry together.
And so that, you know, we do make this easier for brands and retailers, for sure.
I think that the thing I'm taking away from today is the work that eBay's been doing ahead of any legislation, using really innovative marketing.
(34:26):
The marketeer in me is particularly impressed with how you've taken a sponsorship asset like Love Island and used that to create a new marketplace, attracting both buyers and sellers.
And for a brand like eBay that I would have grown up with, is there a such thing as a heritage internet brand?
(34:48):
I don't know.
I think you've just coined it.
No, we'll take it.
We'll take it.
But to see this and to see eBay at the forefront of this is just great, to see that continued innovation on so many levels.
And we've talked about infrastructure and we've talked about marketing and we've talked about connecting customers and we've talked about doing good to the planet.
(35:11):
So there's a huge amount in that.
There really is.
Thanks so much, Kirsty, for taking the time to speak with us today.
We definitely feel energised.
It's really, you know, I like this heritage internet brand concept.
I think you've coined that now.
But it's lovely to see you, you know, with the new dress on, basically.
(35:37):
And thanks so much for taking the time to speak with us today, Kirsty.
Thank you so much, Kirsty.
It's been an absolute joy.
Thank you.
Thank you for having me on the podcast.
That was really interesting.
Kirsty's a great person to talk through the things that are going on at eBay.
Loads of surprises in there.
(35:59):
Loads of things that appeal to me.
Loved it all.
We loved it.
I really enjoy this idea.
Well, my own idea of...
You had the heritage brand, but I feel like eBay's put on a new dress, you know.
It got spruced up, got some of that pre-loved fashion, a few, Birkin bag, the whole lot.
And it's really kind of an invigorated, reinvigorated brand.
(36:23):
It feels that way.
It was feeling that way.
You could see the little bit of work in the background, but it does really feel like it...
For a heritage internet brand that I remember buying everything from an armchair, which I still have.
Computers, all that kind of stuff from, now being much more of a fashion hub.
(36:45):
And I guess because we hadn't had as much exposure to it here in Ireland that we probably have missed some of that fashion transformation.
But just listening to the investments that they've made in capability, partnerships, infrastructure, marketing, just so much innovation going on there.
I think it was just really wonderful to listen to the things that have been achieved and they are going to achieve.
(37:13):
I love this idea of, you know, here is a large problem that is being, you know, a large problem that's being produced, you know, such as the kind of what do we do with our returns or what do we do with the product that's damaged?
And it's a major issue for people and for brands and for retailers.
And then we've got this business, which is obviously, like, enormous scale, huge demand available to us, a lot of traffic coming to that business and so on.
(37:42):
Already, you know, in the minds of people who are kind of, you know, like, let's say, price-sensitive or whatever, looking for an affordable solution or whatever.
So they're ready to accept, the traffic there is ready to accept the, let's say, the imperfections sometimes and that sort of thing.
They're looking for an affordable or a good deal.
I love the fact that you're kind of, that they're looking to how to plug these problems into solutions that they've nearly got prepared and they're working through that.
(38:10):
They're not kind of sitting back on what might have been the laurels of the past, you know.
Another thing that I'm interested in, I don't know what stats are, now Kirsty's gone, unfortunately, but I'm really curious because everybody I know who used to shop on eBay was male.
Like, I can't think...
I wonder what the user split is.
I'd say it's changed.
I wonder, because like, I mean, it was my brothers buying old, broken down cars.
(38:37):
We're probably bad sample sets though for that piece of research.
Everyone we know, all of our mates.
My brother, my two brothers, I have researched them in depth after 45 years, I can now say that they definitely buy from eBay.
So there was one thing that really struck me, which was putting yourself in the retailer's shoes and listening to a brand like eBay talk about buying less and buying less new and buying pre-loved, imperfect.
(39:13):
How that, how they've still managed to engage retailers and they're starting to see these peripheral benefits for those retailers that have joined.
You can imagine sitting there in a trading meeting going, not very happy about this, not buying more new products.
And it was exactly Vinny's point when he was talking about how they had sold a lot of clearance items.
(39:36):
I think it was Argus he mentioned.
They were delighted.
Vinny and his team were, you know, partying and drinking it up as a result of a good outcome.
But obviously, the brand itself or the retailer themselves were, it was a disaster.
I mean, they had to sell a whole heap of stuff at clearance prices.
It wasn't what they were planning on doing.
But at the same time, you know, you've done this.
(40:00):
You've written P&Ls where you've had to factor in your returns rate.
Almost as like, you know, this is nearly in write-off territory.
So, I mean, you're basically looking at this and saying, right, well, here's my returns rate and what's my, what is the rate that I'm going to recover that return?
You know, and if you're able to take that kind of information and attempt to do that recovery through a system, through something like eBay, you know, you can sell, and we all know this, you can sell product that is tens of seasons out of date, you know, stuff that people, you would think, no, like, what's one person's rubbish is another person's treasure, you know, that sort of thing.
(40:42):
So you can definitely clear your stock room with the likes of eBay.
So it's a great way to deal with that inventory.
I think the way that they have dealt with potential pushback, because really no buyer wants to buy less.
If you go and ask any buyer, they always want a bigger open to buy budget, because they want to buy more stuff.
(41:07):
And that means that they've got to sell more stuff.
So to be able to bring retailers on board is great.
And then to your point about how do you deal with your returns?
Say you're in women's fashion, you're getting 35% of your product back or even higher in some instances.
And you've got some that's never been touched, never been worn, brand new with tags, can go straight back on sale.
(41:30):
You've got some that's going to need to be steamed, could go back on sale.
And then a significant amount of it that will never go back on sale because it's unsaleable and it's uneconomical to then challenge the retailer.
Or you're just up the walls at Christmas time, you know, trying to get stuff out that you don't have time to process the stuff that's coming back in again.
(41:50):
Or if your price point is so low that it's completely uneconomical for you to do, to even accept a return back in because it costs so much, which kind of makes the case for buying less and buying better so that you're buying things that will last you.
And then once you're finished with that, it can go off and that can be good for somebody else, which I think is a nice way to think about fashion as somebody that buys way too much.
(42:24):
Way too much. Did you ever get that cardigan?
No, I didn't ever buy that cardigan.
You should go on eBay and see if you can find it.
I probably am going to.
That was a nice cardigan. You deserved that cardigan...
It was a nice cardigan.
I just don't know that it was an €800 cardigan.
Oh, that was a piece.
It certainly was.
(42:44):
If it ever does turn up on eBay, I'll grab it and I'll wear it for one of the podcast recordings.
Ah, very good.
I have a joke.
Go on...
Did I...
Have I told this joke?
Hold on.
But I feel, I feel, I feel like we need a touch of pirate-ism in this.
Another one?
What is a pirate's favourite statistical programming language?
(43:06):
Arrrrr!
Well...
We've done a lot of piracy...
I know, I know...
Well, no...
We haven't. No piracy...
No, we haven't done any piracy.
Actually, no, we have done no piracy whatsoever.
Everything is correctly placed.
So that was great.
I loved that.
Really energised by the whole thing.
(43:27):
Thanks so much, Gordon.
Thanks, Ger.
That was a great podcast.
And thanks to everybody listening.
That's another wrap for the Functional & Fabulous podcast.
You've been listening to Functional & Fabulous with Ger Keohane and Gordon Newman.
If you'd like to know more about the podcast, or about StudioForty9 and Omnichannel Stories, please go to functionalandfabulous.ie. Our sound engineer was Elaine Smith, and the show was produced by Roger Overall.
This is Functional & Fabulous, the omnichannel podcast where we unbox tales of online retail and digital transformation.
In this episode, we go deep into ancient ecommerce legend...
The first ever item ever sold on eBay was in the 90s, was a broken laser pointer.
Ger is very interested...
(00:23):
Excuse me, I've just hit my microphone, I'm so interested.
Gordon talks fashion sense...
That was a nice cardigan.
It was a nice cardigan.
I just don't know that it was an €800 cardigan.
There's a joke...
I have a joke.
And the boys admit their crimes...
We've done a lot of piracy.
I know, well, we haven't... no piracy whatsoever.
(00:45):
No, we have done no piracy whatsoever.
This episode of Functional & Fabulous is brought to you with pride by StudioForty9, retail e-commerce experts, omnichannel growth consultants and cut-through performance marketing specialists.
StudioForty9, where your digital retail success is built.
(01:09):
So hello, I'm thrilled to introduce our guest today, Kirsty Keohan is the General Manager of global fashion at eBay.
She's been with eBay a pretty staggering 12 years, holding multiple roles in soft goods categories such as fashion and home and garden, before coming to focus on fashion globally.
Prior to eBay, Kirsty has had extensive retail experience with companies such as Marks & Spencer, TK Maxx, Brand Alley and Volprivé.
(01:35):
So she certainly understands the retail mindset too.
Hi, Kirsty.
It's lovely to have you here with us today, and we're really looking forward to chatting with you.
Hello, lovely to be here.
Welcome to the podcast, Kirsty.
Thank you.
I suppose, Kirsty, it's been really interesting to look at how eBay has been doing some reinvention of itself over the last few years, particularly in its pre-loved proposition.
(01:57):
Is it fair to say that eBay is going back to its roots a bit here?
Yeah, I mean, it's fair to say.
I would say, so eBay brought the circular economy online, what, nearly 30 years ago.
People would describe us as the OG of selling pre-loved and pre-loved fashion specifically.
So we are one of the world's largest marketplaces, 134 million active daily buyers and 1.7 billion listings.
(02:22):
So we are pretty big.
And it was sort of founded on the principle that people are fundamentally good.
And in fact, the first ever item ever sold on eBay was in the 90s, was a broken laser pointer.
And that back in the 90s, that sort of goes to show that one person's junk is another person's treasure.
And so we've been really focused on building trusted experiences for our customers, customers being both our buyers and our sellers, because that's what the community of our marketplace is all about.
(02:55):
And so what we've really been doing is trying to take our role as the enabler as circular, driving circular economy to sort of a new level.
And so that means that we've been thinking about supporting our existing businesses, as well as, like, people that sell peer to peer, so you and I, to be able to come to eBay and sell inventory in all different kinds of conditions.
(03:17):
So from new to repaired, and we've talked a lot about imperfect, particularly in fashion.
And so this gives us, like, a real major advantage to help particularly brands and retailers when they've got excess inventory or overproduction of a place that they're able to come and sell that inventory and really clearly tell our customers what that inventory is.
(03:42):
I read an article during the week, it had the headline, Stop dumping your castoffs on us, Ghanaian clothes traders tell EU.
And it kind of described the extent of the landfill generated as an environmental catastrophe.
And there was a photograph with the article of an enormous mountain, like a huge mountain of textiles waste.
(04:05):
And so I suppose what it was discussing was the possibility of the European-wide legislation to compel the fashion industry to help address this by introducing the extended producer responsibility regulation.
And it feels to me like the world is absolutely more than ready for some new solutions by companies like eBay.
How do you think you guys fit into the picture to help out in this regard?
(04:27):
Yeah, I mean, those images are horrendous, aren't they, right?
So I think there are a few ways, right?
So the mission that we are on is we don't own any inventory, we don't buy any inventory.
The mission that we've talked about, we can come on to it later, but with our partnership with Love Island, for example, is how do we help people extend the life of their fashion items?
(04:50):
And actually, it's not just fashion items, but that's the bit that I'm particularly focused on.
So what we're trying to do is make it really much easier for brands and retailers who, their first focus might not be on pre-loved items or items that are not perfect.
I get that.
Their focus has been on selling new items.
(05:12):
And so how can we take that heavy lifting out of selling, as I say, not new in season items for brands?
And so there are multiple ways in which we try to do that.
And so we've partnered with companies such as ACS and Reskinned in the UK.
And they're both experts in being either able to buy, like, rental solutions, or they're able to take inventory that brands have.
(05:39):
They can take it in directly from stores or from customers so they can run take-backs.
That's what Reskinned does.
They take that in, they clean it, they grade it, they list it.
And then they send that on to customers on eBay.
And ACS does a similar thing.
And actually, if that item actually can no longer be worn, they're able to repair that.
(06:01):
So ACS are experts in repair.
So it could be missing a button, or it could be a tear in it.
Repair that and it's as good as new.
There's no need for that to come to the end of its life.
So what we try to do is work with partners like that that are able to responsibly then recycle those items as well.
So that deals with the, I would say, the more immediate, like, you know, I can't put this stuff into landfill or ship it into that pile outside of the UK to help brands take more responsibility.
(06:32):
But one of the things, I don't know if you saw, that we announced just under two weeks ago that we are acquiring a company called Serta Logo.
Now, what we've been trying to do is tackle the problem further up the supply chain.
And what Serta Logo does is they provide, almost like a digital passport, so it's a QR code.
(06:54):
They're in over 500 million items already today.
And so consumers can easily scan that.
And at the moment, they authenticate those items.
But what those, what we're hoping to do is work with Serta Logo to give brands an option to, could you relist that on eBay?
So it's much easier for consumers, much easier for brands, but it also gives brands much more traceability and an understanding of what's going on with their items.
(07:17):
A lot of brands don't know what happens to their items after they've sold them to them when they were new.
This is also the benefits of working with people like Reskinned and ACS.
They can provide back information to the brands to say, I don't know if you're aware, if you come down to the warehouse, all these items, we've had all of these come back in a take-back or they're all broken, right?
(07:39):
So these brands can then perhaps address some issues that they might have in production that they otherwise would never have seen because they're not getting involved in the second life of those items.
Because in their first life, if there was a damage to the product or it was broken and it was outside of the returns period, they've just forgotten about it.
(08:01):
They would be unknowledgeable about it.
And so it's interesting, some of the buyers from the brands, when they've come down, they've found this so incredibly useful, this information, so that they can make different decisions when they're buying in the first place.
It's also educated brands a lot more about the componentry that goes into items.
So you might say, oh, I've got a cotton t-shirt that can be recycled, but actually if you've added something on it that can't be recycled, something polyester or something man-made, actually it's really hard for anyone to then recycle that item.
(08:36):
And so thinking about how they produce more responsibly in the first place has also been really useful.
Because when you see it in front of you, you go, right, oh, I know it's made of cotton, but it can't be recycled in the way that I thought because I've added X, Y or Z to that item.
Yeah, it seems kind of almost obvious, but also so easy.
As soon as you add on a few sparkles or some glitter, all of a sudden you've made this product non-recyclable.
(09:02):
The take-back solution, it sounds so elegant, this idea.
And every time I speak with anybody about the extent of returns in women's fashion to a customer, let's say a person who's not involved in ecommerce, they're always staggered and stunned by the amount of returns that are in that business.
(09:26):
The whole take-back piece there that eBay is offering, for retailers, how do they get involved in that?
Or how does that look like from a practical perspective?
In take-back?
Yeah.
So this is the one thing we've been trying to do, is get industry to come together.
I would say it was fairly nascent about how people were thinking about circularity.
(09:49):
A lot of brands were trying to solve it in multiple different ways, which actually then doesn't make it easy for industry to come up with solutions that are scalable.
There is somewhat some consolidation of those solutions.
But plainly and simply, if a brand wants to do something around take-back, get in contact with eBay, me, my team.
(10:14):
If you go on LinkedIn, you'll find enough of us working in fashion that you can get in contact with.
What we do with brands is we partner with them.
And we say, what is it you're trying to solve?
And how do you want to solve that?
And then we try to plug them into the different solutions.
So we work with lots of partners in the technical space to make that happen.
(10:35):
And as I say, now we're working with partners that can physically handle those goods as well.
They can take it directly from people's stores.
It can be sent directly to the third party.
You might want to own take-back dispatch.
You might want to give a voucher out when someone brings something back.
What we do is we try to be flexible enough in our approach so it fits in with what a brand's trying to achieve as well.
(10:59):
So in my head, I kind of imagine this being, like, you go in and there's maybe, like, not a bin as in a rubbish bin, but you can place your clothes in...
I think M&S might've done something like this where they've got, like, these...
Shwopping...
Yeah, Shwopping, that was it...
(11:20):
I remember it now.
Joanna Lumley, I think was on the campaign.
So you go in and you can dump your clothes.
Is that right?
Or are we talking returning items at an individual level, or a bit of both?
A bit of both, right?
So with people like River Island or brands like River Island,
what you can do is you can take something into a store
(11:40):
and if you're there buying something new
then you can give that in
and that then gets sent off to Reskinned, for example,
or you can send it, you can go online,
register to do something with it,
register an item that you want to take back
and then any packaging,
doesn't need to be a bag or anything from Reskinned.
You just send that off to Reskinned and they'll receive it and process it.
(12:03):
So that's what I say, like, there's multiple different solutions.
What we're trying to do is make it as easy as possible for consumers so that they don't have to think twice about this.
If they have to think twice about this, then consumers tend to do nothing.
And so that's why we're trying to think of solutions that are really simple, easy to understand.
Some of the amazing things that we've seen out of this is, I hear from brands saying, commercially I'm just not sure that's going to work.
(12:27):
It's going to cost us, like, loads of money to do this.
Interestingly, what brands have seen is by offering a take-back solution, they've seen an increase in customers that they perhaps were unaware of.
So they didn't have their details registered.
So it's a great customer acquisition tool for brands, and brands that will compensate a customer with a form of voucher or discount tend to be six or seven times more valuable, because they've gone in, they've spent that voucher and they become really sticky with that brand.
(12:58):
And so there are actually lots of other benefits that we perhaps weren't thinking about, or brands weren't thinking about when they're thinking about doing a take-back scheme.
But it's become really important for customers that brands are taking circularity and sustainability more seriously.
And therefore they want to shop with brands that are thinking about this.
I think it's really important because we're at a tipping point where the customers are starting to become aware of their impact and the choices that they're making.
(13:28):
And they would like to be told that, well, okay, you're entitled to have the opportunity of choosing, you're entitled to try it on.
You're entitled to send it back and you're entitled not to feel guilty about doing that.
And if you do that, then we have solutions in place.
And it seems like it's such an elegant, to my mind, it's such an elegant thing where you have a degenerator of lots and lots of product that potentially may end up being unwanted or going to those landfills, meeting the controller of lots and lots of demand and plugging the two into each other.
(14:02):
I really, really like that solution.
I was just going to ask, when that product goes back to somebody like a Reskinned, how does this, so I can envisage it, how does this pop up then on eBay?
Would it be through the brand's store, or would it be through the Reskinned store?
(14:26):
Would it be through a normal listing?
How would then a customer who's interested in extending the life of, and buying some pre-loved clothing, how would they go about finding this?
So we have a pre-loved hub on eBay.
So if you go to the, on the eBay app, across the top, there's a button that says pre-loved and you can go there and then it takes you to a host of storefronts.
(14:55):
So there is a Monsoon powered by ACS storefront.
So it's a Monsoon environment.
And then we've got a River Island powered by Reskinned.
So they form partnerships with the brand and then they sort of set up their own shops on eBay on behalf of the brand.
So it really takes the heavy lifting out of this for a brand.
(15:17):
But the brand, but the customer can still get that brand experience, right?
For the brands that they love.
So if you love River Island, you can go and immerse yourself in pre-loved River Island.
Yeah, that's it.
You come to the River Island storefront, click in and then you're surrounded, or you can, you click in and you can shop everything River Island pre-loved.
(15:38):
Fabulous, love this.
Yeah, you ran a campaign during Black Friday as well last year.
Was it the Better Than You campaign?
Yeah, so we made a decision last Black Friday actually based on customer feedback.
So what we were hearing when we surveyed our customers, which we do all the time, Black Friday is typically a period around over-consumption.
(16:01):
And our customers have said to us that they want to try to make better decisions when purchasing more responsibly during that Black Friday period.
And actually sustainability, buying refurbished or pre-loved, is really important.
So we made a decision as a business that during the Black Friday period in any of our marketing assets or anything you saw on site, we would only feature pre-loved, imperfect or refurbished items.
(16:29):
So that was across home and garden, it was across electronics, it was across fashion.
I think we're the, well, we are the first retailer ever to do that over such a key trading period and our customers responded really well.
Our brands also loved it because it gave them an outlet for that amazing inventory that they could put in front of their customers as well.
(16:51):
Really, a really powerful message.
And, you know, you said that the customers responded really well.
How did you measure that?
What was the, you know, what kind of response did you see?
So we compared it to previous Black Friday periods.
I mean, there's been a lot of turbulence over Black Friday, hasn't there, with Covid and all sorts?
(17:13):
And also in line with sales, right?
With any other organisation, you know, it's how many people are clicking on the banners, therefore, you know, how interested are our customers in this?
And then who goes on to convert and make a purchase?
So there are some items we struggled to keep up with, right?
Because that's the nature of having refurbished, you know, don't have infinite amounts.
(17:34):
So what was interesting, we had to really think about trading our business very differently because we didn't have thousands and thousands and thousands of individual items backed up, but we needed to have either something similar.
And so we had to really flex how we thought about trading our business throughout that period.
But for us, it was exciting.
(17:55):
I love being in the office and around the team during periods like that because it is really exciting to see, you know, all of the work that we've been doing with brands and our sellers, it comes to life in that real key trading period and sets us off in the run-ups to Christmas as well.
Did you see lots of, like, luxury fashion getting snapped up during that period?
(18:18):
Yeah, I mean, yes, definitely.
So we have our, we authenticate luxury sneakers.
So sneakers over £100, watches over £1,500, handbags over £500.
And what we saw is it's not just about the actual price point.
Customers are looking for better value.
So, like, totally appreciate that the cost of living crisis has really hit some people harder than others.
(18:45):
It's much more broader now that people have just got less money to spend.
So what we need to do is put great-value options in front of our customers based on different price points.
So again, we've changed the way that we think about, it's not just a discount, it's an actual price point.
But interestingly, there are lots of people still looking for better value in luxury items.
(19:07):
So the categories that I mentioned, people still want to go and treat themselves.
It's Christmas, it's still a gift in time.
And that actually doesn't remain around Christmas, it's generally,
people are looking, how can I make a saving on some of those luxury items?
And when you come to eBay, I think we had our Love Island launch last night and Amy Bannerman, she had rails of amazing finds that she'd found on eBay of things that are going to be going into the villa next weekend.
(19:35):
And people are so surprised about the condition, the brands that you can find, and then what great value it is.
And so people don't feel the need.
It shows you don't need to go in and always have to spend loads and loads of money on things.
You can still get designer items at really great value.
And just so I'm clear, one of the great things about eBay early doors was this whole, you could find these even unusual items or obviously the luxury items, but there was always this concern about, are you getting the real deal?
(20:11):
So eBay now are going through this authentication process.
I can imagine that's a very time-intensive kind of a thing.
Do you guys see a role for AI in this kind of area?
And how are you doing the authentication?
Yeah, so actually the authentication should feel no different apart from just give you complete confidence.
(20:31):
So when you buy any of those items I said, so sneakers, watches and handbags, and actually jewellery in the US and trading cards, what happens is you have a, there's a blue tick to say it's authenticity guaranteed.
And so imagine I'm selling a handbag and Ger, you come and buy my handbag.
(20:52):
Instead of shipping it to you, I just ship it to the authentication centre.
And then we have experts there that look at your item, check, is it what Kirsty said she was going to send you, firstly?
Is it the colour that I said I was going to send you?
So is it as described?
And then is it authentic?
So independent authenticators review that and then they're able to send it on directly to you.
(21:16):
And Ger, say you were to receive that and you're like, oh, actually, it doesn't suit me that handbag.
I want to send it back.
That item, if a seller offers returns, goes back through the authentication centre.
So there's protections both ways.
And so it sounds like that's actually quite a long process, but you know, items come in in the morning, they're out by the evening.
So actually that peace of mind is really important for customers.
(21:37):
So it doesn't take long.
The comfort of knowing that what you're getting is the real deal.
For the seller too, until you'd mentioned that fact, I never even thought about the return.
But of course, if you're returning something because you don't like it, then you need to protect the seller that they're not swapping out.
I don't know if you sell many Birkins, but they're not swapping out a Birkin going back and forth.
(22:01):
Birkin for a brick.
I'm sure it's been attempted.
I'm sure you've caught people.
I mean, yeah, we've seen lots of things.
And that's, for me, this is the brilliant thing about authenticity guarantee that it protects both ways as well.
And it just gives people that peace of mind about parting with their cash on eBay and knowing that they're trusted both ways.
(22:28):
Can you give us an idea of what the authentication centre looks like?
I've got a vision in my head of this big warehouse, hundreds of people opening boxes, checking things.
Am I thinking right there?
I mean, I love going.
I love a warehouse and I love going.
Me too, same.
It's rooted in me from being a buyer.
Yeah, well, do you know what?
(22:48):
It's really interesting.
There's like really different environments.
So it's an undisclosed location, but it is a big warehouse, but it's sort of split up, very highly secure.
It's not got eBay written on it or anything like that.
Once you've gone through all the security checks to get in the building, the first part of the building that you walk into, we've got the sneakers.
(23:12):
They're going up on conveyors up to the authenticators.
It's very high-tech.
And then there's loud music playing.
There's, like, loads of really cool authenticators that're sniffing the trainers, doing exactly what we've said that they do.
So it goes through a multi-point inspection and that's run by the Sneaker Con team who are experts in authenticating sneakers.
(23:33):
But actually then you start to go into, there's another room through another door.
And so you sort of, like, get into the core of the building, which is where we have our handbag authenticators.
So it's, you know, it comes in, it's all caged.
It's really highly secure.
It's much more sterile as well.
You know, they're wearing the gloves like they do in the adverts because we want to make sure that when we receive those items, we are treating them with the, you know, the respect and care that they deserve.
(24:01):
And then you go into a further, like, vault where we have our watches authentication.
And there's some really, really high-tech equipment in there.
There's drawers of all the different dials and bezel, you know, to make sure that we're authenticating each individual brand appropriately.
And there's a machine in there.
I don't know what it's called.
(24:22):
You can put the watch in and it magnifies it.
So I don't know how many degrees, but you can see right into the heart of the watch.
It's amazing.
And that technology means that our authenticators, it's a company that works called Stoll.
If they were to be unsure or wanted a second opinion, what they could do is they could use that magnifier and then they could real life authenticate that with an authenticator in the US or in Germany.
(24:50):
So you could have three or four people all looking in real life at that watch.
It is amazing.
It's an amazing service.
Is there a charge, like much of an additional charge for this or...?
No charge.
That's a significant investment in physical infrastructure by eBay to support that.
So it's a real signal about how serious you guys are in providing that authenticated service.
(25:17):
It's fabulous.
I would love to see it.
Everyone wants to come, but it's, like, top secret.
And you know what?
Like in all seriousness, as I said at the beginning, everything that we do is rooted in how do we provide the most trusted service for our customers.
And the reason why lots of people do want to come to the authentication centre, like some people have been lucky to come and see it.
(25:43):
However, what we're trying to do is make sure that we don't disclose everything.
If you start telling everybody everything that you do, then it means that unfortunately the people that are creating unauthentic items, they just understand what we're looking for.
So we have to be upping our game all of the time because people will try to better this.
But thankfully, we've got a range of experts in each of the fields that means that we're hopefully always one step ahead.
(26:09):
Great.
And really called, as you say to that eBay brand of being that trusted marketplace for all kinds of products, new, used, pre-loved, however we want to describe it.
And it's, I was going to say, the same, it's the same with refurbished, right?
So whilst my expertise is in fashion, it's the same with our refurbished programmes.
(26:33):
So with electronics, so you have to have a license to be able to refurbish a lot of electronic items.
And so our electronics team make sure that those sellers that say that they are equipped to do that have been checked and verified as well.
So we do take trust really seriously.
(26:53):
And moving along from trust a little bit, and it's something a little bit more, I don't know, exciting.
How is the Love Island partnership going?
That must be a really exciting and big deal for eBay to be involved in that.
It was such a big news item at the time.
And such a spin from the prior fast-fashion sponsors.
(27:16):
Yes.
That would have been involved in the show.
So love to hear more.
It was such an interesting case...
Excuse me,
I've just hit my microphone,
I'm so interested.
You're excited for the next season, aren't you?
So I'd love to hear how it's been working out for eBay from behind the scenes.
(27:37):
Yeah.
I mean, so yesterday I was in London where we had our press event for series 10.
And so this series, we are not just going to provide all the fashion items.
We are also going to be the headline sponsor, which means we're going to have an even bigger opportunity to talk to people about shopping pre-love first and trying to, you know, nudge people to make different decisions when they're thinking about buying fashion.
(28:04):
Look, we were, if I think back to when we, you know, two series ago, so this is our third season, you know, we were, honestly, we weren't sure how it was going to go.
It was really new for us.
But we just fundamentally knew that bringing two powerful sort of brands together meant that we had a real opportunity in the industry to sort of start to change stigmas, create, you know, get people being more innovative and people to start, you know, changing their shopping behaviours.
(28:37):
And we were so grateful that, you know, that was the outcome.
We've seen, if I look back at the last two series, we've seen a 1400% increase in people coming to eBay to search pre-loved fashion between series eight and nine.
Yeah, and we've seen a 24% increase in businesses that are coming with circular fashion solutions to sell on eBay.
(29:04):
And so it's great that we've been able to signal to businesses that eBay is the place for you to come and sell your, you know, your pre-loved fashion items.
And the mission, like what we all try to do with each season is we think about this as nudging, not judging.
So our job is to encourage people to extend the life cycle of their items.
(29:26):
And what we're not expecting is everybody to only shop pre-loved and everybody to not buy fast fashion.
And what we're trying to do is get people to make small decisions, small changes that will have a much bigger impact.
And the stat that I always find overwhelming is if each month, instead of buying a new fashion item, you bought a pre-loved fashion item in the UK, that could prevent 6,000 tonnes of textile waste going to landfill.
(30:00):
That's 260,000 filled suitcases.
That's just by making one change to what you're doing each month.
And so, you know, when people think, you know, about making changes, I always say just start, just make one small change because actually if everybody collectively does that together, it makes a real difference.
And our mission for this season is, hot off the press, is putting a stop to single-wear summer.
(30:26):
And so this is the behaviour, I mean, I don't know if you do this, that you're going on holiday and you're like, what am I going to take with me?
And then instead of planning in advance what you're going to take, you know, shopping pre-loved, pulling out stuff that you already have in your wardrobe, it's trying to get people to think differently about this last-minute panic buying that they do.
(30:48):
And actually a lot of those items will go in people's suitcases, might not get worn, might not get returned.
And it just creates that, you know, it contributes to the problem.
So we're just trying to get people to think a little bit differently about when they go on holiday this season.
So our mission this year is to put a stop to single-wear summer.
Great, I love it.
I love the kind of, it was a value I came across during the week in another business, it was act, sorry, aim big and act small, you know, have the dream and make all of the little steps and know that the little steps have to be made.
(31:23):
It sounds like a really exciting time for eBay in general, you know, and I'm sure for you it must be really gratifying because, you know, eBay, I suppose, when I was growing up, we'll say with eBay, it was the place that my brother bought secondhand cars, my father got some tools, you know, you got an old lamp, you know, that kind of stuff.
(31:44):
So it must be very gratifying for you, you know, as a general manager for fashion globally to see this kind of reinvigoration and a new energy in these categories, you know, that we're talking about.
I mean, look, I think this is the biggest thing to have happened in the fashion industry since I've been in it.
(32:05):
Apart from if you look back into the digital age when everybody went online, but the legislation that is coming in or hopefully will come in that ensures that brands need to take more responsibility and all of us as individuals take more responsibility, I think is the biggest thing that brands and retailers have had to think about, particularly in fashion.
(32:28):
And I, you know, I think it's, you know, when you look back to those pictures of, you know, thousands and millions of fashion items, I think this is exactly the right, the way that we're going.
And what's exciting for me is thinking about the innovation that is in this space.
So, I mean, Ger, you mentioned AI, but there's, you know, there's lots of innovation happening in this space.
(32:52):
And it's coming through in different forms through different people that perhaps hadn't thought about working in the fashion industry.
So we had our, we launched a circular innovation fund in September last year to, because what we're finding is there's loads of businesses that've got amazing ideas, but they're perhaps not big enough to go to some of these bigger brands.
(33:13):
And so what we wanted to do was really turbocharge their business's growth so that they were, you know, more scalable solutions.
So is it around repair?
Is it the dye that they use in production?
So we launched our circular innovation fund to really do that.
And, you know, we had over 500 businesses apply for the fund.
(33:34):
We then got it down to six finalists.
We had one winner, which was the seam that provides repair services or alteration services.
So again, another option for you to alter some of the stuff that you have in your wardrobe.
And this is for me, this is what's so exciting that we're coupling fashion and innovation and just thinking really differently.
(33:57):
And so it's, you know, it's like a proud moment to be able to work for a company like eBay that, you know, is really trying to drive the agenda here and pull the industry together.
And so that, you know, we do make this easier for brands and retailers, for sure.
I think that the thing I'm taking away from today is the work that eBay's been doing ahead of any legislation, using really innovative marketing.
(34:26):
The marketeer in me is particularly impressed with how you've taken a sponsorship asset like Love Island and used that to create a new marketplace, attracting both buyers and sellers.
And for a brand like eBay that I would have grown up with, is there a such thing as a heritage internet brand?
(34:48):
I don't know.
I think you've just coined it.
No, we'll take it.
We'll take it.
But to see this and to see eBay at the forefront of this is just great, to see that continued innovation on so many levels.
And we've talked about infrastructure and we've talked about marketing and we've talked about connecting customers and we've talked about doing good to the planet.
(35:11):
So there's a huge amount in that.
There really is.
Thanks so much, Kirsty, for taking the time to speak with us today.
We definitely feel energised.
It's really, you know, I like this heritage internet brand concept.
I think you've coined that now.
But it's lovely to see you, you know, with the new dress on, basically.
(35:37):
And thanks so much for taking the time to speak with us today, Kirsty.
Thank you so much, Kirsty.
It's been an absolute joy.
Thank you.
Thank you for having me on the podcast.
That was really interesting.
Kirsty's a great person to talk through the things that are going on at eBay.
Loads of surprises in there.
(35:59):
Loads of things that appeal to me.
Loved it all.
We loved it.
I really enjoy this idea.
Well, my own idea of...
You had the heritage brand, but I feel like eBay's put on a new dress, you know.
It got spruced up, got some of that pre-loved fashion, a few, Birkin bag, the whole lot.
And it's really kind of an invigorated, reinvigorated brand.
(36:23):
It feels that way.
It was feeling that way.
You could see the little bit of work in the background, but it does really feel like it...
For a heritage internet brand that I remember buying everything from an armchair, which I still have.
Computers, all that kind of stuff from, now being much more of a fashion hub.
(36:45):
And I guess because we hadn't had as much exposure to it here in Ireland that we probably have missed some of that fashion transformation.
But just listening to the investments that they've made in capability, partnerships, infrastructure, marketing, just so much innovation going on there.
I think it was just really wonderful to listen to the things that have been achieved and they are going to achieve.
(37:13):
I love this idea of, you know, here is a large problem that is being, you know, a large problem that's being produced, you know, such as the kind of what do we do with our returns or what do we do with the product that's damaged?
And it's a major issue for people and for brands and for retailers.
And then we've got this business, which is obviously, like, enormous scale, huge demand available to us, a lot of traffic coming to that business and so on.
(37:42):
Already, you know, in the minds of people who are kind of, you know, like, let's say, price-sensitive or whatever, looking for an affordable solution or whatever.
So they're ready to accept, the traffic there is ready to accept the, let's say, the imperfections sometimes and that sort of thing.
They're looking for an affordable or a good deal.
I love the fact that you're kind of, that they're looking to how to plug these problems into solutions that they've nearly got prepared and they're working through that.
(38:10):
They're not kind of sitting back on what might have been the laurels of the past, you know.
Another thing that I'm interested in, I don't know what stats are, now Kirsty's gone, unfortunately, but I'm really curious because everybody I know who used to shop on eBay was male.
Like, I can't think...
I wonder what the user split is.
I'd say it's changed.
I wonder, because like, I mean, it was my brothers buying old, broken down cars.
(38:37):
We're probably bad sample sets though for that piece of research.
Everyone we know, all of our mates.
My brother, my two brothers, I have researched them in depth after 45 years, I can now say that they definitely buy from eBay.
So there was one thing that really struck me, which was putting yourself in the retailer's shoes and listening to a brand like eBay talk about buying less and buying less new and buying pre-loved, imperfect.
(39:13):
How that, how they've still managed to engage retailers and they're starting to see these peripheral benefits for those retailers that have joined.
You can imagine sitting there in a trading meeting going, not very happy about this, not buying more new products.
And it was exactly Vinny's point when he was talking about how they had sold a lot of clearance items.
(39:36):
I think it was Argus he mentioned.
They were delighted.
Vinny and his team were, you know, partying and drinking it up as a result of a good outcome.
But obviously, the brand itself or the retailer themselves were, it was a disaster.
I mean, they had to sell a whole heap of stuff at clearance prices.
It wasn't what they were planning on doing.
But at the same time, you know, you've done this.
(40:00):
You've written P&Ls where you've had to factor in your returns rate.
Almost as like, you know, this is nearly in write-off territory.
So, I mean, you're basically looking at this and saying, right, well, here's my returns rate and what's my, what is the rate that I'm going to recover that return?
You know, and if you're able to take that kind of information and attempt to do that recovery through a system, through something like eBay, you know, you can sell, and we all know this, you can sell product that is tens of seasons out of date, you know, stuff that people, you would think, no, like, what's one person's rubbish is another person's treasure, you know, that sort of thing.
(40:42):
So you can definitely clear your stock room with the likes of eBay.
So it's a great way to deal with that inventory.
I think the way that they have dealt with potential pushback, because really no buyer wants to buy less.
If you go and ask any buyer, they always want a bigger open to buy budget, because they want to buy more stuff.
(41:07):
And that means that they've got to sell more stuff.
So to be able to bring retailers on board is great.
And then to your point about how do you deal with your returns?
Say you're in women's fashion, you're getting 35% of your product back or even higher in some instances.
And you've got some that's never been touched, never been worn, brand new with tags, can go straight back on sale.
(41:30):
You've got some that's going to need to be steamed, could go back on sale.
And then a significant amount of it that will never go back on sale because it's unsaleable and it's uneconomical to then challenge the retailer.
Or you're just up the walls at Christmas time, you know, trying to get stuff out that you don't have time to process the stuff that's coming back in again.
(41:50):
Or if your price point is so low that it's completely uneconomical for you to do, to even accept a return back in because it costs so much, which kind of makes the case for buying less and buying better so that you're buying things that will last you.
And then once you're finished with that, it can go off and that can be good for somebody else, which I think is a nice way to think about fashion as somebody that buys way too much.
(42:24):
Way too much. Did you ever get that cardigan?
No, I didn't ever buy that cardigan.
You should go on eBay and see if you can find it.
I probably am going to.
That was a nice cardigan. You deserved that cardigan...
It was a nice cardigan.
I just don't know that it was an €800 cardigan.
Oh, that was a piece.
It certainly was.
(42:44):
If it ever does turn up on eBay, I'll grab it and I'll wear it for one of the podcast recordings.
Ah, very good.
I have a joke.
Go on...
Did I...
Have I told this joke?
Hold on.
But I feel, I feel, I feel like we need a touch of pirate-ism in this.
Another one?
What is a pirate's favourite statistical programming language?
(43:06):
Arrrrr!
Well...
We've done a lot of piracy...
I know, I know...
Well, no...
We haven't. No piracy...
No, we haven't done any piracy.
Actually, no, we have done no piracy whatsoever.
Everything is correctly placed.
So that was great.
I loved that.
Really energised by the whole thing.
(43:27):
Thanks so much, Gordon.
Thanks, Ger.
That was a great podcast.
And thanks to everybody listening.
That's another wrap for the Functional & Fabulous podcast.
You've been listening to Functional & Fabulous with Ger Keohane and Gordon Newman.
If you'd like to know more about the podcast, or about StudioForty9 and Omnichannel Stories, please go to functionalandfabulous.ie. Our sound engineer was Elaine Smith, and the show was produced by Roger Overall.
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