January 21, 2025 • 50 mins
In this episode of Honestly Aging by Friends Life Care VigR®, we’re joined by Jen Newman, Greg Woods, and Brent Walsh from Beacon Hill Friends House to dive into the topic of vocational discernment – especially as it relates to older adults and Quaker values. Whether you're considering retirement, seeking purpose, or exploring new opportunities, this conversation offers valuable insights and tools for self-discovery.
What You'll Learn in This Episode:
- The meaning of vocational discernment and its importance for older adults.
- How to identify your “calling” in this season of life. Practical Quaker principles, like the Clearness Committee, to guide decision-making.
- Stories and reflections on navigating transitions, finding purpose, and fostering community.
Special Announcement: Jen, Greg, and Brent will lead a vocational discernment program for Friends Life Care members in 2025! Stay tuned for details or reach out to your Care Coordinator for more information.
#FriendsLifeCare #HonestlyAging #VibrantAging #OlderAdults #Podcast #VocationalDiscernment #QuakerValues #BeaconHillFriendsHouse
Resources:
- https://bhfh.org/newcall
- https://www.linkedin.com/company/beacon-hill-friends-house/
- https://www.facebook.com/BHFHBoston/
- https://www.instagram.com/beaconhillfriendshouse/
- https://www.linkedin.com/in/jennewman3/
- https://www.linkedin.com/in/gregorypatrickwoods/
- www.linkedin.com/in/brent-walsh-bhfh
- https://pendlehill.org/product/let-your-life-speak-2024/
Friends Life Care:
- https://www.friendslifecare.org/
- https://www.facebook.com/friendslifecare/
- https://www.linkedin.com/showcase/friends-life-care-/
- https://www.instagram.com/friendslifecare/
© 2024 Friends Life Care. All Rights Reserved.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:23):
You’re listening to Honestly Aging by Friends Life Care VigR®.
A podcast where we explore what it’s like getting older.The peaks. The valleys. And everything in between.
In this season of Honestly Aging by Friends Life CareVigR®, we’re covering topics related to vibrant aging.
I’m your host, Cheryl Proska. Let’s grow old, together.
(00:54):
On today’s episode, I’m joined by Jen Newman, Greg Woods,and Brent Walsh from Beacon Hill Friends House.
Together, we’ll dive into the important topic of Vocational Discernment.
Jen is a Quaker, theologian, writer, activist, and the Executive Director at Beacon Hill Friends House. She has facilitated more than 100 workshops to
(01:18):
diverse, ecumenical audiences, where she focuses herfacilitation on interactive and experiential spaces,
using Quaker principles and practices in ways that help audiences connect with their own inner wisdom.
Greg is a skilled facilitator and workshop leader with morethan 15 years of experience. Currently, he serves
(01:43):
as a Program Consultant for Beacon Hill FriendsHouse where Jen and he have developed and
refined the Living Your Call (01:49):
Vocational Discernment program.
Brent is a certified life coach specializing in relationships and life transitions, and he has contributed to various publications,
workshops, and conferences. In his role as Program and Engagement Manager at Beacon Hill Friends House,
(02:12):
he strives to strengthen the community with thoughtful programs and help everyone he meets feel seen and heard.
Jen, Greg, and Brent, welcome and thank you for being here.
How are you all today?
Good, how are you?
(02:32):
Good, good. Thank you.
I'm doing well,
and I'm so glad to have you all.
You're all joining me today to talk about vocational discernment,
especially as it relates to older adults and Quakerism.
I want to share some exciting news for any Friends Life Care
members who are listening, that Jen, Greg, and Brent are leading
(02:55):
a vocational discernment program for Friends Life Care members in 2025.
So, be on the lookout for that invite, or
please reach out to your care coordinator for more information.
To kick off the episode,
I would like to invite each of you
to add anything you'd like to your introductions,
as well as if we could define vocational discernment
(03:18):
and tell us more about Beacon HillFriends House.
I think we'll go.
I'll invite Jen, and then Brent,and then Greg.
So, Jen, take it away.
Okay. Thank you, Cheryl.
I can start with defining what BeaconHill Friends House is for folks.
The Friends House is a Quaker centerfor learning and action,
as well as a residential communityof about 20 people
(03:41):
who live according to Quaker values.
So we were founded in 1957, in a largemansion home in Beacon Hill, in Boston,
which is in downtown Boston, to be a placefor folks to meet, worship and learn.
So, out of that, grew a Quaker congregation,Beacon Hill Friends Meeting
that meets here.
There have been public programsand lectures and events, we’re a space
for community organizationsto gather and work together.
(04:04):
And we have an intentional residentialcommunity program of about 20 people.
The age range there really variesfor an intergenerational community.
Right now, our youngestresident is in their early 20s,
and our oldest resident is newlyretired in their 60s, early 70s.
(04:25):
And so, those folks aren't necessarilyall Quaker,
but they live according to Quaker values
of faith, simplicity, integrity,community, and social responsibility.
And we use Quaker business processes.
And we use Quaker practices
in our life together thatranges from silence at dinner, to exploring
clearness committees,and other ways that friends use to deepen
(04:47):
our experience of our inner wisdomand our teacher.
So our mission at the FriendsHouse is to embody those Quaker
principles of faith, simplicity,integrity, community, and social
responsibility, in order to nurtureand to call forth the light in all of us.
And we do that through those variousmeans.
And I have been the Executive Directorhere for about a year and a half.
I was the Program Manager, Brent's role,before that,
(05:10):
and I moved in as a residentin my early 20s.
And so that's a little bit
more about Beacon Hill Friends Houseand my relationship to it.
I'm wondering if Greg wants to talka little bit about what
vocational discernment means,or if you'd like me to take that one too.
I'd love to hear from Greg.
Please.
(05:30):
So, vocational discernment
is about finding your life calling.
Usually, when we hear the term, vocation, we think of a career path
(05:56):
or job training. But, the way we see it in a holistic term,
vocation as calling. And sometimes a calling can line up
(06:16):
with a job, like Jen. Her ministry, and her work, lines up with
what she does. But for me, right now, I work in IT, I work with data,
and that is a job, but my vocation is still in ministry, like doing these workshops.
(06:45):
And I am really involved in my church here in Minneapolis,
as I’m on the preaching team. So, my vocation doesn’t line up with my
career path. And with older adults, sometimes older adults,
(07:13):
when they retire from their career, they don’t know what their next
calling is. And so, we want to help people in that age range really discern
(07:35):
what can they do now with that part of their lives? Because people are living
longer and they still have a lot of ministry and some motivation to give back.
(08:08):
Sometimes people don’t know how to do that. They need
direction because they’ve got a lot more time than they used to,
so we hope to help them find their vocation in that season of their life.
(08:32):
I just wanted to thank you for that explanation
and providing the personal example,
Greg, while your career is in IT
and data, your calling,or you feel like perhaps more
your vocation is in doing vocational discernment, facilitation,
leading people, well, helping to guide people in a path
(08:58):
that would help them discern their own calling.
So, that example helped crystallize it for me.
And I wanted to thank you for it.
Jen, please go ahead.
Yeah.
I just wanted to share that one of the guiding quotes
that we use to help think about what we mean by vocation.
It's actually not from a Quaker, but from a theologian and Presbyterian
minister, Frederick Buechner, who wrote that
(09:20):
the place God calls you
is the place where your deep gladness and the world's deep hunger meet.
And I'm thinking about that
when I hear Greg, for example, explain where his vocation is,
that there are moments in our lives where we're called
to these places, where our deep gladness and the world's deep hunger meet.
And that might mean,
(09:41):
being on the preaching team at church, or that might mean, you know,
serving in a particular way with a nonprofit organization, that could be
different from where you get your paid work.
And so as folks transition out of a paid work situation
into a retirement situation, thinking about the moments
where you really came alive.
(10:02):
And, that's one of the other quotes that we use is from Howard Thurman,
who I believe was a methodist minister, Greg can correct me
if I'm wrong on that,
who said that your vocation in life is really what makes you come alive,
and what we need is people who have come alive.
And so we look for, “Where are those moments
where you have come alive?” And you can see Greg light up, I think, or hear it
(10:25):
around being involved in church
or being involved in these other places, or involved in this curriculum,
and so you can sort of know those signs for yourself of, “Where do I find that?”
And then, “How can I find that outside of
maybe the traditional structures of a career or job?”
And I think in retirement, especially those outside
of traditional structures, can be really important to look for
(10:47):
and to figure out what you want to nourish.
So those are some of the things that we bring in to our understanding.
Brent, what might
you like to add about why you find it's important
for older adults to engage in vocational discernment?
Yeah, I have found in my work with folks in
(11:10):
various life stages of transition,
I am drawn
to this conversation because throughout our lives,
transition serves a very important,
part in our evolution,
just as human beings in general.
(11:33):
And what it does, transition, disrupts the status quo.
We just start thinking we know who we are,
and then suddenly we are hit with a life transition
that maybe we were expecting, maybe we weren't expecting.
And it completely rocks our foundation.
And it disrupts the status quo, and it forces us to reexamine our identity
(11:56):
and who we are, and what that means about
what our future holds for us. And,
so even though
aging is something that we all kind of expect,
when it actually happens, we discover
things about ourselves that we didn't know existed, or we discover
(12:18):
certain vulnerabilities that we didn't know we had, or we discover
certain areas of strength and confidence that we didn't realize we had.
And so,
nevertheless, even though we're learning all of these wonderful things
about ourselves, or sometimes scary things about ourselves,
that disruption of the status quo can be very scary.
(12:39):
And sometimes,
it's not even about knowing all the answers,
we don't even know all the questions.
We don't know the questions we're supposed to ask about
like, “What is happening?”
And “Why am I feeling this way about it?”
And so, vocational discernment, in my opinion, is really important to,
(12:59):
being able to not only,
come up with some answers, but also to distill
the questions down to like, the fundamental core questions.
And that is something that, as people
move into new stages of life, including retirement,
dealing with that loss of identity or that shift in identity,
(13:21):
by figuring out like, “What are the good questions to ask?”
and, “How can I come to terms with my new reality?”
Could we move into
the Quaker approach to vocational discernment?
(13:42):
And for anyone listening who's not a Friends Life Care member,
I do want to say that, Friends Life Care is a Quaker values
nonprofit organization,
so that is why we are focusing on this specific approach
to vocational discernment.
Yeah, I can start there.
(14:02):
I think, we root
how we understand vocation discernment,and the Quaker concept
that there's an inner teacheror an inner wisdom in all of us.
And so, I think, part of our curriculumor how we were thinking
about this, developedwhen Greg and I, in January of 2020,
were thinking about how to providesome opportunities for young adults.
(14:22):
And in the current college environment,for example, a lot of
“How do we know what we're supposed to donext in our lives?”
is answered through,“What do other people say we need to do?”
“How do I market myself?”
“How do I take the right assessmentthat will tell me what I'm suited for?”
“How do I take all the right steps to bethe person
(14:43):
that the job market wants me to be?”,and not a lot of focus on,
“How do I understand what my rightnext step is?”
“How do I understand what's trueor real for me, even if what someone
else’s advice is, is really differentfrom what I think I should do?”
And so “How do I cultivate trust in myself?
“How do I learn to listen?”
(15:03):
“What's the difference betweenan inner teacher and an inner critic?”
“How do we listen to that part of ourselvesand trust and learn from that?”
And so, we wanted to offer young adultsat that time
a different space and a different openingto ask those questions and look inward,
(15:24):
and then figure outhow to support each other,
and not having to have all of the answersto the questions,
but to help provide other questionsand support.
And so, the Quaker traditionboth has the theology of,
there is an inner teacher or wisdom,or there is that of God in every person
and part of what we learnthrough the Quaker practices, through
(15:44):
waiting worship,which might be worship in silence,
through a different sort of
tools like a clearness committee,which we can talk about later too, that
we can use those toolsto kind of understand and shape
and tap into that part of ourselves, that spiritual part of ourselves.
And so, as we think about thisfor an intergenerational community,
(16:07):
which we foundwhen we were running this program
for young adults at their colleges,and at Quaker meetings adjacent to them,
we found a lot of folksat the stage of life right
on either the precipice of retirement,or mid retirement,
asking really similar questionsand holding them
and not having a lot of spaceto actively talk about them.
And so, things like, “How do I know
(16:28):
when I need to lay down a commitmentthat I have and move into something else?”
Or “How do I know, when I'm launched intothe unknown, what my right next steps are?”
Given a lot of advice
and a lot of marketing to usabout how we might choose that next step,
and so, we found that creating
a peer support around that,with those questions
(16:48):
rooted in those Quaker values of,you have some wisdom inside of you,
and we can teach you some thingsthat might help you tap into that,
is part of where we root this curriculum.
And I'll stop talking there and seeif others want to add depth to this.
I would just say that, sometimes
we don't realize, how valuable community is
(17:09):
in our discernment process,until we actually engage that community.
Because sometimes our personal viewpointgets trapped
inside our own lens, our own context.
And so we kind of cyclethrough the same questions,
and the same barriersthat we've placed around our own
(17:36):
understanding of, like what is possible.
And so, when other people approachour question
or our query, with their lensand their context,
it can open up an entirely new perspectivethat we never
even imagined.
And so, the Quaker process of
(17:58):
finding clarity is so valuable
within and beyond the Quaker community,
because it uses some real practical
methods of tapping into the communitythat,
that we have access to, and allowing that
(18:23):
blend of contexts and blend of
perspectives to inform our next steps.
Greg, is there anything you'd like to add?
In the past couple years,
I've been doing a lot somatic work,
(18:44):
through my own journey with therapy, I do other groups,
something I really like about Quakerism as an idea is
(19:15):
our body knows the wisdom we need.
So, our program isn’t about giving answers
but allowing people to tap into themselves.
Because we live in a world that really doesn’t value
(19:50):
people being connected through their mind, body, spirit.
So, how can we grow that and help people reach back
inside themselves for the wisdom they hold?
(20:14):
I'm thinking so much about,
it's hard not to, myself, and how,
throughout life, you're often expected
to have all the answers or expected to know what your path is.
And not knowing can be so scary and admitting that,
(20:36):
so, the fact that what you're all talking about is that in a sense,
you have the answer inside. What you are all providing with the Quaker
vocational discernment is a framework
and some tools to help individuals
get to those answers that are already lying within themselves.
(20:58):
So that's just what I'm reflecting on.
So, Jen, you had brought up a “clearness committee.”
And, I think that may be a new term for anyone out there listening,
so I would love to hear more about that, especially how it helps
with this vocational discernment process or finding one's own purpose.
(21:22):
Yeah, I'd love to talk more about that.
So clearness committees, clearness like clear ness.
I've heard it also described as a clearance committee by someone.
So I want to be clear that I'm saying clearness.
I'm saying clearness.
And the idea is that we might
we have big questions in our lives.
(21:44):
It might mean, do I become a member of my Quaker meeting?
It might mean, you know, do I get married?
It might mean, do I take this job or how do I navigate this thing?
And so, Quakers have a process that,
it opens up room for group discernment
(22:04):
to help a focus person in a clearness committee arrive
at some sense of clarity about what their right next step is,
given a question. It could mean what is my ministry?
What do I call it?
It could mean, you know, there are lots of questions that you might bring
(22:26):
that don't necessarily have a clear, obvious right answer,
but that have multiple possible ways forward,
or you might not even have clarity about what those ways forward are.
And so, you can bring a community of people,
usually 3 or 4 others, to sit with you,
(22:46):
and ask you questions
that help you go deeper in your own discernment.
And so, I'll use an example from my own life,
I have lots of them,
but, for example,
I’ll use a college one.
So in college, I got into divinity school and law school.
There are two very different paths there,
(23:08):
and I could have decided neither of those things.
And one was like, this is what I always thought I would do.
And one was like, divinity school, is like, I'm not sure about this.
And so in that instance, I might call a clearness committee
to help me explore, where am I called?
Where am I drawn?
Both options could be opening different things in my own life.
(23:32):
So that's an example of having two very concrete options that you're
exploring that you're really narrowed down to, but you'd like to explore.
Also, I used clearness committees
as I thought about whether or not I took the Executive Director position
at Beacon Hill Friends House, whether or not that was
the path that I wanted to take here, or did I want to explore something else?
(23:52):
And so there an option was presented in front of me,
you know, my predecessor was leaving the role, and I had to think about,
is this the right next step for me, or is there some other path forward?
And so those are two examples where you might have a really clear next
step. Other examples might feel more like there's a fog in front of you,
we might call that fog clearing.
(24:14):
So you might not know exactly where you're headed forward,
but you know something isn't right about where you are now.
And so, you might bring folks around you to help you explore,
you know, what general directionam I moving in and to hold it with you.
And so, the practical matter of it is that a focus person
might call a group of 3or 4 people to come sit with them,
(24:38):
they may share a particular question,like the ones that I've been offering
around testing the
is this the right way forward for me,or do I take this option or this one?
They might say, I'm not sure where I'm going,
but they would offer a question and somebackground information to those folks.
And then the role of the membersof the clearness committee isn't to decide
(25:00):
necessarily what this person does next,but is to offer questions
that are exploratory, that are open,that help someone go deeper.
So if I was choosing betweendivinity school and law school,
you might say, a question might look like,
you know, what is your heart longing
for in the next two years of your life?
(25:21):
And that might open upsome questions for me that I was not,
you know, expecting to think about.
Or it might mean, like,
you know,tell us an example of where you felt joy
as you exploredthe idea of being an executive director.
Or tell us,
what are some of the fearsthat you're holding about taking that
(25:44):
as your next step?
Where might you see other ways opening
and how might you name them?
And so, those questions are not meant
to guide someone in a particular way,
but to help open up roomfor exploring. In a clearness committee,
you might meet for an hour,an hour and a half.
You might meet for an hourover and over and over again
(26:05):
until that person getswhat they need out of it.
And all of the parties are consentingto those long meetings.
And it's a way for community membersto really show up and listen.
So other things members of a clearness committeecould do would be to reflect back
what they're hearing,
they might be, to offer images or thoughts
that are coming to mind when they listento what that person is sharing.
(26:28):
Some folks who like prayermight ask the committee to explore prayer
with them or other spiritual practicesin that moment to help open things up.
And so, it's really wide ranging,depending on what the focus person is,
and the group, is comfortablewith exploring.
But the goal is to help that person,like Brent was sharing, in community,
go deeper with these questions,and not feel alone in holding them.
(26:51):
And so it's, I think, a really great waythat folks can show up
in exploring these thingswith each other and community.
Brent and Greg, is there
anything that you might like to addat this point?
I was just going to add
to what Jen was sayingby, pointing out that the
(27:13):
the clearness committee is oftenfocused on
the person who is who is presentingthe query, who is asking the question.
But one of the
things that I found surprising about
a clearness committee is how much itactually helps the participants,
who are asking the questions,because in a clearness committee,
(27:35):
there is typically a clerkwho will kind of oversee the process.
And one of that,one of the functions of the clerk
is to make sure that the questionsbeing asked are not cloaked as advice.
For instance,
have you thought about applyingto this organization,
or have you thought about volunteeringin this way that is all about advice
(27:58):
and what participants can gleanfrom participating
in a clearness committeeand having those questions reframed
to be actually more effectivefor the querent is
they find that it affectshow they ask questions
to other people in their livesoutside of a clearness committee.
(28:19):
They realize that they've been offeringthese advice,
you know, advice type questionsto their kids, or to their colleagues.
And, it can really, like, helpto like,
instruct or inform
how we move forwardwith, offering guidance or,
or assistance to our communitiesoutside the clearness committee.
(28:42):
And so, there aremultiple benefits that I find, that
a clearness committee offers,not only for the person who is seeking
discernment, but also for people who are helping in that process.
Would you prefer to age independently in your own home
or live in a nursing facility? I know what I’d rather do. Friends Life Care
(29:04):
membership offers just that. Plan today for a future lived at home
with vitality, independence, growth, and resilience while protecting
your savings. Learn about your options at a free seminar or webinar.
Register at friendslifecare.org/register or call 215.628.8964.
(29:30):
I, so often
find myself, especially with my children,
doing the “cloaking advice” questions, and
I don't even realize that I'm doing it.
So, this conversation is absolutely going to help me
(29:50):
show up differently in some future interactions.
Maybe I'll just be able to at least
catch myself a little bit better in those interactions.
So I'm thinking,
all of this sounds very poignant
and, I'd love to go out there and do it today.
(30:13):
I wonder, however, what
fears that you might see
older adults, that you're running this program with,
or who are coming for a clearness committeeabout vocational discernment,
what are some of the fears that
they're facing? Either coming in or during
(30:36):
this process?
One of the things that I have,
been very aware ofwhen I have talked to people
who are moving into this very unfamiliar
and disorienting phase of life,
(30:57):
and I've noticed it with my own family,my own parents, who,
one of their biggest fears is,
cognitive decline,
because of the
the awareness
(31:17):
that as we get older,sometimes we lose some of the sharpness,
or in some cases, some people losesome of the sharpness that they knew
when they were actively working insidetheir career, whatever that career was.
And so, there's this shift and
this fearthat if I don't stay in my career,
(31:40):
then I'm going to lose thiscognitive sharpness
that I have enjoyed all of these years.
And I think one of the questionsthat I've heard
older adults ask is,
how do I maintain
(32:03):
how do I maintain the
clarity that I have around
that I have typically had around life
when I am moving into such an uncharted
place in my life.
And so, part of that,I think, is this concern that,
(32:26):
that I'm not going to have opportunitiesto
challenge my mind in ways that will keep me sharp.
And so, part of this discernmentprocess is
what does that look like for me?
What will help me maintain
the kind of sharpness that I want in my future?
(32:50):
And I think,
the answer is going to be differentfor everyone.
And so, it's not just a cookiecutter answer.
You can't just download an appand be guaranteed
to have all of the resultsthat you're looking for.
You really have to
discern what is going to,
what is going to facilitatethat continued,
(33:13):
cognitive journey that you're on.
I think that is an excellent example
of what
the people going throughyour vocational discernment,
(33:34):
the types of questionsthat they may bring.
Are there any other stories, or examples,
or questions that you've seen success
with, running this vocational discernmentprogram
with older adults?
(33:58):
Looks like Greg is deep in thought,
Greg, do you want to go next?
Yeah,
to be quite honest,
this part of the work is newer,
but we have had
(34:24):
we have had many workshops
that would mark that generation,
we had to learn the way of
the youngest person was 16and the oldest was
almost 80 and even in,
(34:45):
and the youngest
and the oldest participant happened to be in the same clearness committee.
And afterwards, the participant who
was in their 70s,
(35:08):
the teen asked me a question
I never even thought about,
so, I think,
I think,
people are amazed at
(35:32):
how even they
go in thinking that they know what
the answer will be, they will be surprised.
More than not,
(35:53):
people are surprised by
the questions they are asked,
and things that are coming up, and,
it’s a way to awaken their passions
(36:17):
And I think,
I think especially for older
adults,
this is a time to help them
reconnect with an interest or interests
(36:38):
they might have had to put aside
at a younger age.
I think of,
the example of
Grandma Moses,
who was
(36:58):
began painting,
picked up painting again,
after decades,
like in her 70s
by the time she died,
she was one of the most famous painters
(37:21):
of her time.
And now paintings are in some art galleries
and we see them all over the world.
And she picked up painting again
(37:43):
at the age of, I think 78.
Yeah,
so that was in the late ‘30s.
and she died in 1961.
So, I think,
it’s never too late
(38:03):
to rediscover a passion
I can replay off the response from
the piece about what are people fearing.
And again, in my experiencewith our workshops, both
intergenerational ones, and ones gearedtoward this age range alone, the fears
(38:26):
I hear are the overwhelm of the questionof “What is mine to do?”
Like, how do I even know what's next?
And there's a lot of informationcoming at you and the fear of the unknown,
as things keep changing and transition
their change, gets kind of acute
with aging
(38:48):
that, you know, “How will you know?”and “How will you navigate it?”
are big questions.
But, I also have experienceda real deep eagerness
for folksto engage in these conversations.
And so, hearing from folks this both, like,I'm really afraid to go
this deep, but I'm hereand I'm super eager and I want to,
(39:10):
has been my experienceat this age range.
So both,
a desire to go really deep and,
a fear of what that will unearth.
And we did do a survey of folks, we had,
I think, over 50 responses to folks ages55 to 89 about what questions
they were asking,which in part really inspired us to
(39:33):
to focus in on this new part of our work with this curriculum.
And a lot of those questionswere along those lines.
So things like, how do I integrate
all I have done in my lifeto create a meaningful way forward?
Will my work been a necessityin terms of how to afford to grow older
in this country?
What is mine to do as I slow down
(39:54):
into retirement? Is simply enjoyinglife enough?
What do I have inside meto give back to others in my elder years?
As I contemplate retirement,how will I find meaningful activity?
Can I transition to a new career
that is personally fulfilling nowthat I don't need to worry about money?
Or now that I'm retired,where am I called to bring light?
(40:16):
And someone wrote, “Now what?”
And then wrote a little bitabout their life story
and how they arrived at this moment.
And the overwhelm ofthe question of “Now what?”
And I'll read one more, which this echoes what Brent was sharing,
but what can I do at this stage of my life,when I feel physically
and sometimes mentally limited?
How can I connectwith those outside my age group or other
(40:39):
demographic categories?
And so, there were a lot of deep questions,
we asked an open ended one, which was just,“What questions are you holding about
vocation in this season of your life?”and they went wide ranging and deep.
And so, our experience has beenthe fear is often
in what will happenwhen I open up space for this question,
(41:00):
but also a deep yearningfor those pure spaces.
If I canjust, add one more thing about
what Jen was just sayingin some of those questions,
one situation that I'm aware of is,
that of a professor who retired
(41:21):
and realized that
his entire life, he had been, offering
expertise and mentorship to students.
And one of the things that he wasn't clear
about in his retirementis, “How many people are going
to be coming around asking for my insight,asking for my expertise?”
(41:46):
And so, there was this kind of, this fear
of, isolation or loneliness,
but I think it comes from this deep seededhuman need for contribution.
We want to contribute and contributionis defined differently by everyone.
And so, in his career, he spent decades
contributingby helping to mentor, younger people.
(42:09):
But now, it was struggling to figure out,like,
“Where is my placenow for that kind of contribution?”
And so finding that path,
might seem as simple as,
you know, volunteering somewhere,but it really is very individual
for each person to figure out, “What doescontribution look like for me now?”
(42:33):
and “Who is going to want to knowwhat I have to offer?”
And I appreciate
all the questionsthat were coming up for me that you
that you inadvertently answeredwhere I was curious,
who should we inviteto a clearness committee?
And I loved Greg's example of, well,
(42:56):
we have anywhere from a 16 year oldto somebody all the way into their 80s.
And how interesting it would be to hear
the questions from people who have
are at all different pointsof their aging journey.
Also, I loved “never too late”,
and “with age comes experience.”
(43:19):
And I think it is so commonto have a fear of the unknown.
Now, there's going to be some peoplewho are very excited by the unknown.
I'm not necessarily one of them.
So just, like, it's normal
to fear the unknown, regardless ofhow old you are.
So just bringing that to the forefront
that you're not alone out there,
(43:40):
if you are having some fearor worry around what's next for you.
So for, I mean, me hearing all this,
I want to set up my ownclearness committee.
I have questionsthat I would love to have answered,
and I'm thinking some of our listenerswill be thinking the same thing.
(44:01):
So for that group who's curious,and they want to explore this further,
how might you suggestsomeone could begin this process
of Quaker vocational discernment?
(44:23):
Well, we are working onreleasing a workbook and resource
that will be releasedsometime in early 2025, I think.
But, I would think about,
what are the questions that you're holdingand how can you write them down?
Is there a place that you can kind ofthink about them, get quiet,
articulate them?
(44:44):
And are there 3 or 4 other peoplewho
you might want to be in conversationwith about those questions?
What are those spacesthat you can open up to ask those?
Are there others that are holdingquestions that you could support?
So think about where there might be folks
who are eager for that conversation,but that you haven't
(45:05):
identified yet in your life,
and can you identifysome of those conversation
partners? Might be where I would start.
Any guidance from you, Greg or you,
Brent?
(45:26):
There is, Pendle Hill has, pamphlets that,
will often answer specific,you know, or address certain topics.
And there are some, like, for instance,there's one called, “The Clearness
Committee (45:40):
A Communal Approach to Discernment” by Parker Palmer.
There are other opportunitieswhere you can actually look
specifically for, instruction
about how to do a clearness committee.
And, so there are some resources online,
there's some pamphlets availablethrough Pendle Hill,
(46:02):
and there's,
you know, also, people who,
who are familiar with Quaker
process will also inevitably have
some thoughts about, you know, whereto find good resources for,
you know, learning
the Quaker processes around
(46:24):
clearness committeesand other parts of discernment.
So fortunately, with the internet
these days, we do have access to quite,
a wealth of resources around,
how to actually put together
and runa clearness committee for yourself.
(46:44):
But, we hope to be one of thoseresources,
very, very, very soon.
One of the advantages of
doing a clearness committee
with people, you know is
(47:12):
you can
become spiritual
you can become spiritual
accountability partners
(47:32):
so you don't lose
the momentum
from that clearness committee.
You can check in with
the people on the committee,
and the people on the committee can
hold you accountable
(47:54):
I think, part of the reason
that we are
so far into this project,
Jen and I served as accountability partners for each other
to keep this going,
despite not living in the same area,
(48:17):
despite our busy schedule,
and not being there,
the one thingwe can focus our time on.
So before we close,
I would like to invite you to share more
(48:39):
about the vocational discernment programthat you're going to be leading
for Friends Life Care members.
Sure.
We are still working onfiguring out the dates
for this program,so stay tuned for more information,
but, our intention is to have it on siteat the location of Friends Life Care.
(49:01):
And Cheryl, can you remind folks of wherethat on site location is?
Sure.
We're 460 Norristown Road, Suite 300,
and that's in Blue Bell, Pennsylvania.
Great.
And we are exploring conversationsabout having this as a hybrid program,
or offering an online option.
So if folks are interested in engaging but can't make it to Blue Bell,
(49:22):
Pennsylvania,
Then,
I encourage you to reach out to Cheryl or others at Friends
Life Care, to express your interest in that program.
So stay tuned for more information, which will be coming shortly.
So in closing, I would like to go around again
(49:43):
and see if there's any advice that you would like to give
to older adults who are feeling thatuncertainty that I was mentioning before,
the uncertainty about what comes next
in their lives.
(50:09):
I would just like to challenge
folks to examinewhat they have gleaned from their life
so far, and decidewhat is important to them to take forward
and what is important to them to lay down.
(50:29):
And laying something downdoes not mean dismissing it
or invalidating the lessonslearned through something.
But, sometimes,
knowing what we want in the future is,
it's importantto know what we don't want
(50:50):
from the past,to move into our future.
So, being honest
about that and allowing ourselves
the permission to lay things down
that have really served us in the past,but
have come to perhaps,the end of the shelf life
(51:11):
for that particular thing, to be able to,
to be clear and honest
and vulnerableabout what we are ready to lay down
and what we really want to make spacefor in the future.
I think that is a really importantpart to,
(51:31):
not only coming up with some answers, butalso coming up with some good questions
to help us, you know,discover further what's important to us.
I guess my advice would just be that
(51:52):
there are ways to cultivate communityaround holding these questions.
So, there's not necessarily, easy answersor immediate answers, but there are ways
that we can bring people alongside usto hold those questions.
And our workshop is one of those placeswhere you might find that,
but, there are other places in your life andconversation partners you can bring in.
(52:19):
I think, in our culture
we live in a time of a lot
loneliness
which, I think the biggest thing
I want to always remind people isyou are not alone.
(52:40):
You have a community.
You have peoplewho want to support you, and
sometimes it can be hard
to think about who those are,
but, I believe everyone has people in theirlives you are willing to support them.
(53:10):
Jen, Greg, and
Brent,thank you so much for joining me today
and allowing us to explorevocational discernment,
especially as it relates to older adults and Quakerism,
and I know the Friends Life Care members will benefit
so much from the program that you'll all be leading with us in 2025.
(53:32):
Thank you.
Thank you for having us.
Thank you so much, Cheryl.
Thank you.
Thank you for listening to Honestly Aging by Friends Life Care VigR®, a unique program focused on aging with Vitality, Independence, Growth,
and Resilience. You can find links and show notes from this episode on our website at friendslifecare.org/podcast.
(53:59):
Thank you to Jen Newman, Greg Woods, and Brent Walsh for joining us today. You can learn more about Jen, Greg, Brent, and Beacon Hill Friends
House by visiting bhfh.org, Facebook, Instagram, and LinkedIn. And thank you to Nick Deterding for editing all the Honestly Aging episodes.
(54:21):
If you like our show, pleaserate, review, subscribe and join us next time.
To learn more about aging with vitality, independence, growth, and resilience, subscribe to our blog at friendslifecare.org/blog.
You’re listening to Honestly Aging by Friends Life Care VigR®.
A podcast where we explore what it’s like getting older.The peaks. The valleys. And everything in between.
In this season of Honestly Aging by Friends Life CareVigR®, we’re covering topics related to vibrant aging.
I’m your host, Cheryl Proska. Let’s grow old, together.
(00:54):
On today’s episode, I’m joined by Jen Newman, Greg Woods,and Brent Walsh from Beacon Hill Friends House.
Together, we’ll dive into the important topic of Vocational Discernment.
Jen is a Quaker, theologian, writer, activist, and the Executive Director at Beacon Hill Friends House. She has facilitated more than 100 workshops to
(01:18):
diverse, ecumenical audiences, where she focuses herfacilitation on interactive and experiential spaces,
using Quaker principles and practices in ways that help audiences connect with their own inner wisdom.
Greg is a skilled facilitator and workshop leader with morethan 15 years of experience. Currently, he serves
(01:43):
as a Program Consultant for Beacon Hill FriendsHouse where Jen and he have developed and
refined the Living Your Call (01:49):
Vocational Discernment program.
Brent is a certified life coach specializing in relationships and life transitions, and he has contributed to various publications,
workshops, and conferences. In his role as Program and Engagement Manager at Beacon Hill Friends House,
(02:12):
he strives to strengthen the community with thoughtful programs and help everyone he meets feel seen and heard.
Jen, Greg, and Brent, welcome and thank you for being here.
How are you all today?
Good, how are you?
(02:32):
Good, good. Thank you.
I'm doing well,
and I'm so glad to have you all.
You're all joining me today to talk about vocational discernment,
especially as it relates to older adults and Quakerism.
I want to share some exciting news for any Friends Life Care
members who are listening, that Jen, Greg, and Brent are leading
(02:55):
a vocational discernment program for Friends Life Care members in 2025.
So, be on the lookout for that invite, or
please reach out to your care coordinator for more information.
To kick off the episode,
I would like to invite each of you
to add anything you'd like to your introductions,
as well as if we could define vocational discernment
(03:18):
and tell us more about Beacon HillFriends House.
I think we'll go.
I'll invite Jen, and then Brent,and then Greg.
So, Jen, take it away.
Okay. Thank you, Cheryl.
I can start with defining what BeaconHill Friends House is for folks.
The Friends House is a Quaker centerfor learning and action,
as well as a residential communityof about 20 people
(03:41):
who live according to Quaker values.
So we were founded in 1957, in a largemansion home in Beacon Hill, in Boston,
which is in downtown Boston, to be a placefor folks to meet, worship and learn.
So, out of that, grew a Quaker congregation,Beacon Hill Friends Meeting
that meets here.
There have been public programsand lectures and events, we’re a space
for community organizationsto gather and work together.
(04:04):
And we have an intentional residentialcommunity program of about 20 people.
The age range there really variesfor an intergenerational community.
Right now, our youngestresident is in their early 20s,
and our oldest resident is newlyretired in their 60s, early 70s.
(04:25):
And so, those folks aren't necessarilyall Quaker,
but they live according to Quaker values
of faith, simplicity, integrity,community, and social responsibility.
And we use Quaker business processes.
And we use Quaker practices
in our life together thatranges from silence at dinner, to exploring
clearness committees,and other ways that friends use to deepen
(04:47):
our experience of our inner wisdomand our teacher.
So our mission at the FriendsHouse is to embody those Quaker
principles of faith, simplicity,integrity, community, and social
responsibility, in order to nurtureand to call forth the light in all of us.
And we do that through those variousmeans.
And I have been the Executive Directorhere for about a year and a half.
I was the Program Manager, Brent's role,before that,
(05:10):
and I moved in as a residentin my early 20s.
And so that's a little bit
more about Beacon Hill Friends Houseand my relationship to it.
I'm wondering if Greg wants to talka little bit about what
vocational discernment means,or if you'd like me to take that one too.
I'd love to hear from Greg.
Please.
(05:30):
So, vocational discernment
is about finding your life calling.
Usually, when we hear the term, vocation, we think of a career path
(05:56):
or job training. But, the way we see it in a holistic term,
vocation as calling. And sometimes a calling can line up
(06:16):
with a job, like Jen. Her ministry, and her work, lines up with
what she does. But for me, right now, I work in IT, I work with data,
and that is a job, but my vocation is still in ministry, like doing these workshops.
(06:45):
And I am really involved in my church here in Minneapolis,
as I’m on the preaching team. So, my vocation doesn’t line up with my
career path. And with older adults, sometimes older adults,
(07:13):
when they retire from their career, they don’t know what their next
calling is. And so, we want to help people in that age range really discern
(07:35):
what can they do now with that part of their lives? Because people are living
longer and they still have a lot of ministry and some motivation to give back.
(08:08):
Sometimes people don’t know how to do that. They need
direction because they’ve got a lot more time than they used to,
so we hope to help them find their vocation in that season of their life.
(08:32):
I just wanted to thank you for that explanation
and providing the personal example,
Greg, while your career is in IT
and data, your calling,or you feel like perhaps more
your vocation is in doing vocational discernment, facilitation,
leading people, well, helping to guide people in a path
(08:58):
that would help them discern their own calling.
So, that example helped crystallize it for me.
And I wanted to thank you for it.
Jen, please go ahead.
Yeah.
I just wanted to share that one of the guiding quotes
that we use to help think about what we mean by vocation.
It's actually not from a Quaker, but from a theologian and Presbyterian
minister, Frederick Buechner, who wrote that
(09:20):
the place God calls you
is the place where your deep gladness and the world's deep hunger meet.
And I'm thinking about that
when I hear Greg, for example, explain where his vocation is,
that there are moments in our lives where we're called
to these places, where our deep gladness and the world's deep hunger meet.
And that might mean,
(09:41):
being on the preaching team at church, or that might mean, you know,
serving in a particular way with a nonprofit organization, that could be
different from where you get your paid work.
And so as folks transition out of a paid work situation
into a retirement situation, thinking about the moments
where you really came alive.
(10:02):
And, that's one of the other quotes that we use is from Howard Thurman,
who I believe was a methodist minister, Greg can correct me
if I'm wrong on that,
who said that your vocation in life is really what makes you come alive,
and what we need is people who have come alive.
And so we look for, “Where are those moments
where you have come alive?” And you can see Greg light up, I think, or hear it
(10:25):
around being involved in church
or being involved in these other places, or involved in this curriculum,
and so you can sort of know those signs for yourself of, “Where do I find that?”
And then, “How can I find that outside of
maybe the traditional structures of a career or job?”
And I think in retirement, especially those outside
of traditional structures, can be really important to look for
(10:47):
and to figure out what you want to nourish.
So those are some of the things that we bring in to our understanding.
Brent, what might
you like to add about why you find it's important
for older adults to engage in vocational discernment?
Yeah, I have found in my work with folks in
(11:10):
various life stages of transition,
I am drawn
to this conversation because throughout our lives,
transition serves a very important,
part in our evolution,
just as human beings in general.
(11:33):
And what it does, transition, disrupts the status quo.
We just start thinking we know who we are,
and then suddenly we are hit with a life transition
that maybe we were expecting, maybe we weren't expecting.
And it completely rocks our foundation.
And it disrupts the status quo, and it forces us to reexamine our identity
(11:56):
and who we are, and what that means about
what our future holds for us. And,
so even though
aging is something that we all kind of expect,
when it actually happens, we discover
things about ourselves that we didn't know existed, or we discover
(12:18):
certain vulnerabilities that we didn't know we had, or we discover
certain areas of strength and confidence that we didn't realize we had.
And so,
nevertheless, even though we're learning all of these wonderful things
about ourselves, or sometimes scary things about ourselves,
that disruption of the status quo can be very scary.
(12:39):
And sometimes,
it's not even about knowing all the answers,
we don't even know all the questions.
We don't know the questions we're supposed to ask about
like, “What is happening?”
And “Why am I feeling this way about it?”
And so, vocational discernment, in my opinion, is really important to,
(12:59):
being able to not only,
come up with some answers, but also to distill
the questions down to like, the fundamental core questions.
And that is something that, as people
move into new stages of life, including retirement,
dealing with that loss of identity or that shift in identity,
(13:21):
by figuring out like, “What are the good questions to ask?”
and, “How can I come to terms with my new reality?”
Could we move into
the Quaker approach to vocational discernment?
(13:42):
And for anyone listening who's not a Friends Life Care member,
I do want to say that, Friends Life Care is a Quaker values
nonprofit organization,
so that is why we are focusing on this specific approach
to vocational discernment.
Yeah, I can start there.
(14:02):
I think, we root
how we understand vocation discernment,and the Quaker concept
that there's an inner teacheror an inner wisdom in all of us.
And so, I think, part of our curriculumor how we were thinking
about this, developedwhen Greg and I, in January of 2020,
were thinking about how to providesome opportunities for young adults.
(14:22):
And in the current college environment,for example, a lot of
“How do we know what we're supposed to donext in our lives?”
is answered through,“What do other people say we need to do?”
“How do I market myself?”
“How do I take the right assessmentthat will tell me what I'm suited for?”
“How do I take all the right steps to bethe person
(14:43):
that the job market wants me to be?”,and not a lot of focus on,
“How do I understand what my rightnext step is?”
“How do I understand what's trueor real for me, even if what someone
else’s advice is, is really differentfrom what I think I should do?”
And so “How do I cultivate trust in myself?
“How do I learn to listen?”
(15:03):
“What's the difference betweenan inner teacher and an inner critic?”
“How do we listen to that part of ourselvesand trust and learn from that?”
And so, we wanted to offer young adultsat that time
a different space and a different openingto ask those questions and look inward,
(15:24):
and then figure outhow to support each other,
and not having to have all of the answersto the questions,
but to help provide other questionsand support.
And so, the Quaker traditionboth has the theology of,
there is an inner teacher or wisdom,or there is that of God in every person
and part of what we learnthrough the Quaker practices, through
(15:44):
waiting worship,which might be worship in silence,
through a different sort of
tools like a clearness committee,which we can talk about later too, that
we can use those toolsto kind of understand and shape
and tap into that part of ourselves, that spiritual part of ourselves.
And so, as we think about thisfor an intergenerational community,
(16:07):
which we foundwhen we were running this program
for young adults at their colleges,and at Quaker meetings adjacent to them,
we found a lot of folksat the stage of life right
on either the precipice of retirement,or mid retirement,
asking really similar questionsand holding them
and not having a lot of spaceto actively talk about them.
And so, things like, “How do I know
(16:28):
when I need to lay down a commitmentthat I have and move into something else?”
Or “How do I know, when I'm launched intothe unknown, what my right next steps are?”
Given a lot of advice
and a lot of marketing to usabout how we might choose that next step,
and so, we found that creating
a peer support around that,with those questions
(16:48):
rooted in those Quaker values of,you have some wisdom inside of you,
and we can teach you some thingsthat might help you tap into that,
is part of where we root this curriculum.
And I'll stop talking there and seeif others want to add depth to this.
I would just say that, sometimes
we don't realize, how valuable community is
(17:09):
in our discernment process,until we actually engage that community.
Because sometimes our personal viewpointgets trapped
inside our own lens, our own context.
And so we kind of cyclethrough the same questions,
and the same barriersthat we've placed around our own
(17:36):
understanding of, like what is possible.
And so, when other people approachour question
or our query, with their lensand their context,
it can open up an entirely new perspectivethat we never
even imagined.
And so, the Quaker process of
(17:58):
finding clarity is so valuable
within and beyond the Quaker community,
because it uses some real practical
methods of tapping into the communitythat,
that we have access to, and allowing that
(18:23):
blend of contexts and blend of
perspectives to inform our next steps.
Greg, is there anything you'd like to add?
In the past couple years,
I've been doing a lot somatic work,
(18:44):
through my own journey with therapy, I do other groups,
something I really like about Quakerism as an idea is
(19:15):
our body knows the wisdom we need.
So, our program isn’t about giving answers
but allowing people to tap into themselves.
Because we live in a world that really doesn’t value
(19:50):
people being connected through their mind, body, spirit.
So, how can we grow that and help people reach back
inside themselves for the wisdom they hold?
(20:14):
I'm thinking so much about,
it's hard not to, myself, and how,
throughout life, you're often expected
to have all the answers or expected to know what your path is.
And not knowing can be so scary and admitting that,
(20:36):
so, the fact that what you're all talking about is that in a sense,
you have the answer inside. What you are all providing with the Quaker
vocational discernment is a framework
and some tools to help individuals
get to those answers that are already lying within themselves.
(20:58):
So that's just what I'm reflecting on.
So, Jen, you had brought up a “clearness committee.”
And, I think that may be a new term for anyone out there listening,
so I would love to hear more about that, especially how it helps
with this vocational discernment process or finding one's own purpose.
(21:22):
Yeah, I'd love to talk more about that.
So clearness committees, clearness like clear ness.
I've heard it also described as a clearance committee by someone.
So I want to be clear that I'm saying clearness.
I'm saying clearness.
And the idea is that we might
we have big questions in our lives.
(21:44):
It might mean, do I become a member of my Quaker meeting?
It might mean, you know, do I get married?
It might mean, do I take this job or how do I navigate this thing?
And so, Quakers have a process that,
it opens up room for group discernment
(22:04):
to help a focus person in a clearness committee arrive
at some sense of clarity about what their right next step is,
given a question. It could mean what is my ministry?
What do I call it?
It could mean, you know, there are lots of questions that you might bring
(22:26):
that don't necessarily have a clear, obvious right answer,
but that have multiple possible ways forward,
or you might not even have clarity about what those ways forward are.
And so, you can bring a community of people,
usually 3 or 4 others, to sit with you,
(22:46):
and ask you questions
that help you go deeper in your own discernment.
And so, I'll use an example from my own life,
I have lots of them,
but, for example,
I’ll use a college one.
So in college, I got into divinity school and law school.
There are two very different paths there,
(23:08):
and I could have decided neither of those things.
And one was like, this is what I always thought I would do.
And one was like, divinity school, is like, I'm not sure about this.
And so in that instance, I might call a clearness committee
to help me explore, where am I called?
Where am I drawn?
Both options could be opening different things in my own life.
(23:32):
So that's an example of having two very concrete options that you're
exploring that you're really narrowed down to, but you'd like to explore.
Also, I used clearness committees
as I thought about whether or not I took the Executive Director position
at Beacon Hill Friends House, whether or not that was
the path that I wanted to take here, or did I want to explore something else?
(23:52):
And so there an option was presented in front of me,
you know, my predecessor was leaving the role, and I had to think about,
is this the right next step for me, or is there some other path forward?
And so those are two examples where you might have a really clear next
step. Other examples might feel more like there's a fog in front of you,
we might call that fog clearing.
(24:14):
So you might not know exactly where you're headed forward,
but you know something isn't right about where you are now.
And so, you might bring folks around you to help you explore,
you know, what general directionam I moving in and to hold it with you.
And so, the practical matter of it is that a focus person
might call a group of 3or 4 people to come sit with them,
(24:38):
they may share a particular question,like the ones that I've been offering
around testing the
is this the right way forward for me,or do I take this option or this one?
They might say, I'm not sure where I'm going,
but they would offer a question and somebackground information to those folks.
And then the role of the membersof the clearness committee isn't to decide
(25:00):
necessarily what this person does next,but is to offer questions
that are exploratory, that are open,that help someone go deeper.
So if I was choosing betweendivinity school and law school,
you might say, a question might look like,
you know, what is your heart longing
for in the next two years of your life?
(25:21):
And that might open upsome questions for me that I was not,
you know, expecting to think about.
Or it might mean, like,
you know,tell us an example of where you felt joy
as you exploredthe idea of being an executive director.
Or tell us,
what are some of the fearsthat you're holding about taking that
(25:44):
as your next step?
Where might you see other ways opening
and how might you name them?
And so, those questions are not meant
to guide someone in a particular way,
but to help open up roomfor exploring. In a clearness committee,
you might meet for an hour,an hour and a half.
You might meet for an hourover and over and over again
(26:05):
until that person getswhat they need out of it.
And all of the parties are consentingto those long meetings.
And it's a way for community membersto really show up and listen.
So other things members of a clearness committeecould do would be to reflect back
what they're hearing,
they might be, to offer images or thoughts
that are coming to mind when they listento what that person is sharing.
(26:28):
Some folks who like prayermight ask the committee to explore prayer
with them or other spiritual practicesin that moment to help open things up.
And so, it's really wide ranging,depending on what the focus person is,
and the group, is comfortablewith exploring.
But the goal is to help that person,like Brent was sharing, in community,
go deeper with these questions,and not feel alone in holding them.
(26:51):
And so it's, I think, a really great waythat folks can show up
in exploring these thingswith each other and community.
Brent and Greg, is there
anything that you might like to addat this point?
I was just going to add
to what Jen was sayingby, pointing out that the
(27:13):
the clearness committee is oftenfocused on
the person who is who is presentingthe query, who is asking the question.
But one of the
things that I found surprising about
a clearness committee is how much itactually helps the participants,
who are asking the questions,because in a clearness committee,
(27:35):
there is typically a clerkwho will kind of oversee the process.
And one of that,one of the functions of the clerk
is to make sure that the questionsbeing asked are not cloaked as advice.
For instance,
have you thought about applyingto this organization,
or have you thought about volunteeringin this way that is all about advice
(27:58):
and what participants can gleanfrom participating
in a clearness committeeand having those questions reframed
to be actually more effectivefor the querent is
they find that it affectshow they ask questions
to other people in their livesoutside of a clearness committee.
(28:19):
They realize that they've been offeringthese advice,
you know, advice type questionsto their kids, or to their colleagues.
And, it can really, like, helpto like,
instruct or inform
how we move forwardwith, offering guidance or,
or assistance to our communitiesoutside the clearness committee.
(28:42):
And so, there aremultiple benefits that I find, that
a clearness committee offers,not only for the person who is seeking
discernment, but also for people who are helping in that process.
Would you prefer to age independently in your own home
or live in a nursing facility? I know what I’d rather do. Friends Life Care
(29:04):
membership offers just that. Plan today for a future lived at home
with vitality, independence, growth, and resilience while protecting
your savings. Learn about your options at a free seminar or webinar.
Register at friendslifecare.org/register or call 215.628.8964.
(29:30):
I, so often
find myself, especially with my children,
doing the “cloaking advice” questions, and
I don't even realize that I'm doing it.
So, this conversation is absolutely going to help me
(29:50):
show up differently in some future interactions.
Maybe I'll just be able to at least
catch myself a little bit better in those interactions.
So I'm thinking,
all of this sounds very poignant
and, I'd love to go out there and do it today.
(30:13):
I wonder, however, what
fears that you might see
older adults, that you're running this program with,
or who are coming for a clearness committeeabout vocational discernment,
what are some of the fears that
they're facing? Either coming in or during
(30:36):
this process?
One of the things that I have,
been very aware ofwhen I have talked to people
who are moving into this very unfamiliar
and disorienting phase of life,
(30:57):
and I've noticed it with my own family,my own parents, who,
one of their biggest fears is,
cognitive decline,
because of the
the awareness
(31:17):
that as we get older,sometimes we lose some of the sharpness,
or in some cases, some people losesome of the sharpness that they knew
when they were actively working insidetheir career, whatever that career was.
And so, there's this shift and
this fearthat if I don't stay in my career,
(31:40):
then I'm going to lose thiscognitive sharpness
that I have enjoyed all of these years.
And I think one of the questionsthat I've heard
older adults ask is,
how do I maintain
(32:03):
how do I maintain the
clarity that I have around
that I have typically had around life
when I am moving into such an uncharted
place in my life.
And so, part of that,I think, is this concern that,
(32:26):
that I'm not going to have opportunitiesto
challenge my mind in ways that will keep me sharp.
And so, part of this discernmentprocess is
what does that look like for me?
What will help me maintain
the kind of sharpness that I want in my future?
(32:50):
And I think,
the answer is going to be differentfor everyone.
And so, it's not just a cookiecutter answer.
You can't just download an appand be guaranteed
to have all of the resultsthat you're looking for.
You really have to
discern what is going to,
what is going to facilitatethat continued,
(33:13):
cognitive journey that you're on.
I think that is an excellent example
of what
the people going throughyour vocational discernment,
(33:34):
the types of questionsthat they may bring.
Are there any other stories, or examples,
or questions that you've seen success
with, running this vocational discernmentprogram
with older adults?
(33:58):
Looks like Greg is deep in thought,
Greg, do you want to go next?
Yeah,
to be quite honest,
this part of the work is newer,
but we have had
(34:24):
we have had many workshops
that would mark that generation,
we had to learn the way of
the youngest person was 16and the oldest was
almost 80 and even in,
(34:45):
and the youngest
and the oldest participant happened to be in the same clearness committee.
And afterwards, the participant who
was in their 70s,
(35:08):
the teen asked me a question
I never even thought about,
so, I think,
I think,
people are amazed at
(35:32):
how even they
go in thinking that they know what
the answer will be, they will be surprised.
More than not,
(35:53):
people are surprised by
the questions they are asked,
and things that are coming up, and,
it’s a way to awaken their passions
(36:17):
And I think,
I think especially for older
adults,
this is a time to help them
reconnect with an interest or interests
(36:38):
they might have had to put aside
at a younger age.
I think of,
the example of
Grandma Moses,
who was
(36:58):
began painting,
picked up painting again,
after decades,
like in her 70s
by the time she died,
she was one of the most famous painters
(37:21):
of her time.
And now paintings are in some art galleries
and we see them all over the world.
And she picked up painting again
(37:43):
at the age of, I think 78.
Yeah,
so that was in the late ‘30s.
and she died in 1961.
So, I think,
it’s never too late
(38:03):
to rediscover a passion
I can replay off the response from
the piece about what are people fearing.
And again, in my experiencewith our workshops, both
intergenerational ones, and ones gearedtoward this age range alone, the fears
(38:26):
I hear are the overwhelm of the questionof “What is mine to do?”
Like, how do I even know what's next?
And there's a lot of informationcoming at you and the fear of the unknown,
as things keep changing and transition
their change, gets kind of acute
with aging
(38:48):
that, you know, “How will you know?”and “How will you navigate it?”
are big questions.
But, I also have experienceda real deep eagerness
for folksto engage in these conversations.
And so, hearing from folks this both, like,I'm really afraid to go
this deep, but I'm hereand I'm super eager and I want to,
(39:10):
has been my experienceat this age range.
So both,
a desire to go really deep and,
a fear of what that will unearth.
And we did do a survey of folks, we had,
I think, over 50 responses to folks ages55 to 89 about what questions
they were asking,which in part really inspired us to
(39:33):
to focus in on this new part of our work with this curriculum.
And a lot of those questionswere along those lines.
So things like, how do I integrate
all I have done in my lifeto create a meaningful way forward?
Will my work been a necessityin terms of how to afford to grow older
in this country?
What is mine to do as I slow down
(39:54):
into retirement? Is simply enjoyinglife enough?
What do I have inside meto give back to others in my elder years?
As I contemplate retirement,how will I find meaningful activity?
Can I transition to a new career
that is personally fulfilling nowthat I don't need to worry about money?
Or now that I'm retired,where am I called to bring light?
(40:16):
And someone wrote, “Now what?”
And then wrote a little bitabout their life story
and how they arrived at this moment.
And the overwhelm ofthe question of “Now what?”
And I'll read one more, which this echoes what Brent was sharing,
but what can I do at this stage of my life,when I feel physically
and sometimes mentally limited?
How can I connectwith those outside my age group or other
(40:39):
demographic categories?
And so, there were a lot of deep questions,
we asked an open ended one, which was just,“What questions are you holding about
vocation in this season of your life?”and they went wide ranging and deep.
And so, our experience has beenthe fear is often
in what will happenwhen I open up space for this question,
(41:00):
but also a deep yearningfor those pure spaces.
If I canjust, add one more thing about
what Jen was just sayingin some of those questions,
one situation that I'm aware of is,
that of a professor who retired
(41:21):
and realized that
his entire life, he had been, offering
expertise and mentorship to students.
And one of the things that he wasn't clear
about in his retirementis, “How many people are going
to be coming around asking for my insight,asking for my expertise?”
(41:46):
And so, there was this kind of, this fear
of, isolation or loneliness,
but I think it comes from this deep seededhuman need for contribution.
We want to contribute and contributionis defined differently by everyone.
And so, in his career, he spent decades
contributingby helping to mentor, younger people.
(42:09):
But now, it was struggling to figure out,like,
“Where is my placenow for that kind of contribution?”
And so finding that path,
might seem as simple as,
you know, volunteering somewhere,but it really is very individual
for each person to figure out, “What doescontribution look like for me now?”
(42:33):
and “Who is going to want to knowwhat I have to offer?”
And I appreciate
all the questionsthat were coming up for me that you
that you inadvertently answeredwhere I was curious,
who should we inviteto a clearness committee?
And I loved Greg's example of, well,
(42:56):
we have anywhere from a 16 year oldto somebody all the way into their 80s.
And how interesting it would be to hear
the questions from people who have
are at all different pointsof their aging journey.
Also, I loved “never too late”,
and “with age comes experience.”
(43:19):
And I think it is so commonto have a fear of the unknown.
Now, there's going to be some peoplewho are very excited by the unknown.
I'm not necessarily one of them.
So just, like, it's normal
to fear the unknown, regardless ofhow old you are.
So just bringing that to the forefront
that you're not alone out there,
(43:40):
if you are having some fearor worry around what's next for you.
So for, I mean, me hearing all this,
I want to set up my ownclearness committee.
I have questionsthat I would love to have answered,
and I'm thinking some of our listenerswill be thinking the same thing.
(44:01):
So for that group who's curious,and they want to explore this further,
how might you suggestsomeone could begin this process
of Quaker vocational discernment?
(44:23):
Well, we are working onreleasing a workbook and resource
that will be releasedsometime in early 2025, I think.
But, I would think about,
what are the questions that you're holdingand how can you write them down?
Is there a place that you can kind ofthink about them, get quiet,
articulate them?
(44:44):
And are there 3 or 4 other peoplewho
you might want to be in conversationwith about those questions?
What are those spacesthat you can open up to ask those?
Are there others that are holdingquestions that you could support?
So think about where there might be folks
who are eager for that conversation,but that you haven't
(45:05):
identified yet in your life,
and can you identifysome of those conversation
partners? Might be where I would start.
Any guidance from you, Greg or you,
Brent?
(45:26):
There is, Pendle Hill has, pamphlets that,
will often answer specific,you know, or address certain topics.
And there are some, like, for instance,there's one called, “The Clearness
Committee (45:40):
A Communal Approach to Discernment” by Parker Palmer.
There are other opportunitieswhere you can actually look
specifically for, instruction
about how to do a clearness committee.
And, so there are some resources online,
there's some pamphlets availablethrough Pendle Hill,
(46:02):
and there's,
you know, also, people who,
who are familiar with Quaker
process will also inevitably have
some thoughts about, you know, whereto find good resources for,
you know, learning
the Quaker processes around
(46:24):
clearness committeesand other parts of discernment.
So fortunately, with the internet
these days, we do have access to quite,
a wealth of resources around,
how to actually put together
and runa clearness committee for yourself.
(46:44):
But, we hope to be one of thoseresources,
very, very, very soon.
One of the advantages of
doing a clearness committee
with people, you know is
(47:12):
you can
become spiritual
you can become spiritual
accountability partners
(47:32):
so you don't lose
the momentum
from that clearness committee.
You can check in with
the people on the committee,
and the people on the committee can
hold you accountable
(47:54):
I think, part of the reason
that we are
so far into this project,
Jen and I served as accountability partners for each other
to keep this going,
despite not living in the same area,
(48:17):
despite our busy schedule,
and not being there,
the one thingwe can focus our time on.
So before we close,
I would like to invite you to share more
(48:39):
about the vocational discernment programthat you're going to be leading
for Friends Life Care members.
Sure.
We are still working onfiguring out the dates
for this program,so stay tuned for more information,
but, our intention is to have it on siteat the location of Friends Life Care.
(49:01):
And Cheryl, can you remind folks of wherethat on site location is?
Sure.
We're 460 Norristown Road, Suite 300,
and that's in Blue Bell, Pennsylvania.
Great.
And we are exploring conversationsabout having this as a hybrid program,
or offering an online option.
So if folks are interested in engaging but can't make it to Blue Bell,
(49:22):
Pennsylvania,
Then,
I encourage you to reach out to Cheryl or others at Friends
Life Care, to express your interest in that program.
So stay tuned for more information, which will be coming shortly.
So in closing, I would like to go around again
(49:43):
and see if there's any advice that you would like to give
to older adults who are feeling thatuncertainty that I was mentioning before,
the uncertainty about what comes next
in their lives.
(50:09):
I would just like to challenge
folks to examinewhat they have gleaned from their life
so far, and decidewhat is important to them to take forward
and what is important to them to lay down.
(50:29):
And laying something downdoes not mean dismissing it
or invalidating the lessonslearned through something.
But, sometimes,
knowing what we want in the future is,
it's importantto know what we don't want
(50:50):
from the past,to move into our future.
So, being honest
about that and allowing ourselves
the permission to lay things down
that have really served us in the past,but
have come to perhaps,the end of the shelf life
(51:11):
for that particular thing, to be able to,
to be clear and honest
and vulnerableabout what we are ready to lay down
and what we really want to make spacefor in the future.
I think that is a really importantpart to,
(51:31):
not only coming up with some answers, butalso coming up with some good questions
to help us, you know,discover further what's important to us.
I guess my advice would just be that
(51:52):
there are ways to cultivate communityaround holding these questions.
So, there's not necessarily, easy answersor immediate answers, but there are ways
that we can bring people alongside usto hold those questions.
And our workshop is one of those placeswhere you might find that,
but, there are other places in your life andconversation partners you can bring in.
(52:19):
I think, in our culture
we live in a time of a lot
loneliness
which, I think the biggest thing
I want to always remind people isyou are not alone.
(52:40):
You have a community.
You have peoplewho want to support you, and
sometimes it can be hard
to think about who those are,
but, I believe everyone has people in theirlives you are willing to support them.
(53:10):
Jen, Greg, and
Brent,thank you so much for joining me today
and allowing us to explorevocational discernment,
especially as it relates to older adults and Quakerism,
and I know the Friends Life Care members will benefit
so much from the program that you'll all be leading with us in 2025.
(53:32):
Thank you.
Thank you for having us.
Thank you so much, Cheryl.
Thank you.
Thank you for listening to Honestly Aging by Friends Life Care VigR®, a unique program focused on aging with Vitality, Independence, Growth,
and Resilience. You can find links and show notes from this episode on our website at friendslifecare.org/podcast.
(53:59):
Thank you to Jen Newman, Greg Woods, and Brent Walsh for joining us today. You can learn more about Jen, Greg, Brent, and Beacon Hill Friends
House by visiting bhfh.org, Facebook, Instagram, and LinkedIn. And thank you to Nick Deterding for editing all the Honestly Aging episodes.
(54:21):
If you like our show, pleaserate, review, subscribe and join us next time.
To learn more about aging with vitality, independence, growth, and resilience, subscribe to our blog at friendslifecare.org/blog.
Popular Podcasts
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Therapy Gecko
An unlicensed lizard psychologist travels the universe talking to strangers about absolutely nothing. TO CALL THE GECKO: follow me on https://www.twitch.tv/lyleforever to get a notification for when I am taking calls. I am usually live Mondays, Wednesdays, and Fridays but lately a lot of other times too. I am a gecko.