March 26, 2023 • 38 mins
How well do you really know that person you follow online? 👀
In episode 06 of I’m lost, so what? Podcast, Cassandra dives into the very interesting dynamic of parasocial relationships - what they are, how they manifest in our lives, and how our current Internet-driven and social media-driven culture has shifted parasocial relationships.
In this episode, Cassandra talks about:
- What are parasocial relationships
- How they’ve changed over the years thanks to the Internet and social media
- Her own experience with parasocial relationships
- And shares a reminder that we DON’T really know the people we follow online
Ever thought you really knew someone? Well, maybe you didn’t actually know them.
Connect with Cassandra elsewhere:
- Cassandra’s Personal Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/cassandratle/
- The Quirky Pineapple Studio Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/thequirkypineapplestudio/
Additional resources mentioned in the episode:
- “Parasocial Relationships: The Nature of Celebrity Fascinations” - https://www.findapsychologist.org/parasocial-relationships-the-nature-of-celebrity-fascinations
- “Try Pod” Episode 181: “ok, let’s talk about it.” - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ut68FBnWbAI
- Fourth Wall - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth_wall
Episode 03, “You’re the brand/niche is toxic AF” - https://imlostsowhat.podbean.com/e/you-re-the-brandniche-is-toxic-af/
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
I don't think I actually hadlanguage to talk about parasocial
relationships until just recently.
Cause I didn't know that thatis what was happening to me.
I just felt like, oh, kind of weirdthat people act like they really know
me when they don't, or kind of weirdthat people tell me things like, oh, you
know, that didn't really seem like you.
I was actually surprisedthat you like did that.
(00:22):
I'm like, huh, that's weird.
I wonder why they thought that,because like, y'all don't know me.
Hello.
Hello everyone.
I'm Cassandra Le and you'relistening to I'm lost, so what?
The podcast exploring betweenbelonging and carving your own path
for all the peeps out there who kindof know what you're doing, but still
question what the fuck is going on?
(00:42):
Yeah, I'm with ya.
Hello, hello, and welcomeback to the I'm Lost, so what?
podcast!
Y'all know the drill, right?
This is your host, Cassandra, andtoday we are going to be talking
about, do you all really know me?
And really the question is,do you all really know the
people that you follow online?
(01:03):
We're gonna dive into what Parasocialrelationships are and how, mm,
I don't wanna say toxic, but howinteresting they can be, especially
from a cultural perspective.
So if you don't know, whatare Parasocial relationships?
This definition I got fromfind a psychologist.org.
(01:26):
And I've linked this article in theshow notes so you can check it out.
I also wanna mention that I first heardabout this term in one of the Try Guys
video after they had a huge scandal inlate 2022 with their ex fourth member.
If you don't know who the Try Guysare, Well, I'll link this video,
this tripod, their podcast episode inthe show notes where they talk about
(01:50):
this whole situation, the drama thatthey had, and then also they mention
what Parasocial relationships areand like how it has affected them.
But let's get into what isactually a parasocial relationship.
So a parasocial relationship isa one-sided relationship where
one person extends emotionalenergy, interest, and time.
(02:11):
This is usually the person who isconsuming content or following somebody
online, and the other party, the persona.
It's completely unawareof the other's existence.
So I think this changes a little bit.
I'll get into this later on inthe episode, but it changes a
little bit because it's not likein a parasocial relationship now
with how the world is working withthe internet and social media.
(02:31):
It's not like people don't realizethat, uh, other people don't exist,
but maybe they don't have like thesame type of relationship because
one person is consuming and followingand feeling like they really know
somebody, and the other person isthe one that is producing content.
So let me read that again.
A parasocial relationship is a one-sidedrelationship where one person extends
(02:51):
emotional energy, interest, and time, andthe other party the persona is completely
unaware of the other's existence.
Parasocial relationships are most commonwith celebrities organizations such
as sports teams or television stars.
And where do we mostly see Parasocialrelationships in our lives?
We usually see them with, like I've justread in the definition with celebrities.
(03:14):
So movie stars, actors, reality TV stars.
Could be sports players / teams.
It could be music artists, itcould be artists in general.
Could be anybody like famous thatwe know of and follow online or
that we see on television and.
What's a new pair of social relationshipthat is actually rising because now
(03:38):
we have to look at it from our currentsystem and our current, I guess,
socioeconomic political world, andwe have to take into account things
like the internet and social media.
So the new, this is my opinion, the newpair of social relationship that is rising
are with people who are personal brands.
(04:01):
So like influencers, thoughtleaders, creators, business owners.
And anyone we follow on social media thatwe feel connected to, inspired by and
we consume their content on a regularbasis and are interested / curious in.
So now it's not just celebrities,sports players, teams, music artists,
(04:23):
reality, TV stars, people who I thinkwhen I was growing up, when I followed
them, like I think about when I wassuper, super invested in like Rihanna's
life, um, I was like hardcore fan.
And also same with Miley Cyrus.
I was like obsessed with Rihanna andMiley Cyrus growing up and I would
follow them and like, you know, getreally invested in like their decisions
(04:43):
and what they do, how they dress,what they eat, and all of that stuff.
And I think before social media andbefore like super internet culture,
we would kind of like have parasocialrelationships with people who were famous.
People who we kind of like idolizedpeople who we thought were like super
(05:03):
far away from us and they were notlike in our sphere or in our world.
But now with the rise of internetculture and with the rise of social
media, we are basically now movinginto a different type of parasocial
relationship that deals more close feels-it like tangible because of social media.
(05:25):
So what I think is that social media isbreaking the fourth wall in relationships
and giving us access to celebrities orpeople that we admire because it's easy.
Like if you're followingsomebody on social media, it's
easy to send them a message.
It's easy to like, you know, reachout, respond to their stories, and of
course, like I'm following Adam Mosserion Instagram and he's like coming
(05:47):
out with new updates every so oftenabout Instagram and like what to do.
Here's how we're like improving, you know,access for creators to like connect with
their communities and all of this stuff.
And it's basically breaking thefourth wall so that you know this
parasocial relationship that we oncehad with people that we felt were so
far away from us, who lived in likea totally different world than we did
(06:09):
because they were celebrities, famouspeople, super rich people, whatever.
Now it's bringing it down to earth.
It's making it more tangible.
It's making it more real.
It's making it more accessible and like,oh, they're not so different than me.
I am not so different than them.
We're like, we're buds,we're bfs, we're friends.
And if you think about it, even onTikTok, people before like, Hey, bestie,
(06:30):
what's up, bestie ,bestie, we're notdoing this today, bestie don't do that.
And like we are creating thisparasocial relationship too.
It's not just, you know that previouslyin the definition it was defined that,
you know, the, there was a person orgroup of people who were invested in
somebody and then there was a persona.
No, it's not like that anymore becausewe are also as the persona, the brand,
(06:55):
the person, the celebrity, the personalbrand, the influencer, the creator.
We're almost like creating thisper parasocial relationship because
we're bringing it down to earth.
We're making it more tangible.
We're making it more accessible.
We're like breaking that fourth wall.
And if y'all aren't sure whatthe fourth wall is, I have a
definition here just in case.
But the fourth wall is a, I took thisfrom Wikipedia, so it's quite technical.
(07:18):
I'll read this and then explain.
So the fourth wall is a performanceconvention in which an invisible imaginary
wall separates actors from the audience.
While the audience can see throughthis wall, the convention assumes
the actors act as if they cannot.
So for example, it's like when you'rewatching a movie and I think in one
of the Deadpool movies, uh, RyanReynolds like, looks directly to the
(07:40):
camera and like talks to the camera.
They're talking to us, the audiencemembers who are watching the movie
that is breaking the fourth wall.
And I feel like social media is breakingthis fourth wall in relationships
because it's giving us access, uh,to people in a really different way.
And it is creating like thisopen channel of communication.
(08:02):
So we see this on TikTok for surebecause people are definitely
talking more directly, more openly.
We follow people because they'resharing more of their life.
You know, we're commenting,they're engaging back.
Uh, we see this on Instagram forsure because like, you know, Adam
is coming out with like new thingsevery other week and saying, you
know, we're doing this for creators.
(08:22):
We wanna be able to.
Give creators access to their communities.
We wanna create like direct channelsso that people can talk to each other.
We want, you know, yourcommunity to be involved.
Uh, that is basically breaking thefourth wall because now it's not
this like god-like celebrity that,you know, we didn't have access to.
They're all on Instagram and TikTok.
(08:43):
Like we are the normal peopleand we're able to like, create
this relationship with them.
That is a different type ofparasocial relationship now.
It's not just oh I consume andyou know, you're over there.
It's really bringing it down to, yeah,we're on the same playing field now.
Like, yeah, sure.
We we're different because whenyou're a celebrity, but like I
(09:06):
can also become celebrity statusbecause of Instagram, because of
TikTok, because of social media.
That is wild.
So when social media is breaking thefourth wall, it's things like, you
know, being able to DM people directly,direct message them, being able to
consume more of their content andlike control your settings so that the
(09:28):
people that you follow, you can control,like how often you see their stuff.
You can make sure that youalways see their things.
Uh, you can actually pay them directlybecause you love and want to support
their content, all of that stuff.
And that is, that's really differentthan what the parasocial relationship
(09:49):
was in the beginning when we didn'thave social media or the internet, or at
least it was like heavy internet culture.
So I, I love exploring this because Iwork specifically in personal branding
for thought leaders, for businessowners, for people who like, feel
like they have a message to share.
And I feel like people don't talkabout this when they teach personal
(10:09):
branding because you know, we're peoplewho are teaching personal branding
on Instagram or like other personalbranding experts or coaches or whatever,
strategists, they're more talkingabout like, okay, how can you show up?
How can you be real?
How can you show up andshare more of your lifestyle?
How can you build an emotional connectionwith people through your content?
How can you start engaging with yourfollowers, et cetera, to build trust?
(10:32):
And those are the things thatare all really important.
But I really think that we need toalso have this conversation on the
side of, or maybe a, a conversation,not really on the side, but like
another whole as conversation aboutparasocial relationships when we start
building our personal brands, becauseare we like creating a parasocial
relationship with our people?
(10:54):
Are we intentionally doing that?
Do we want to do that?
Is that something that issustainable and helpful for us?
Is that something sustainableand helpful for them?
Or are we capitalizing on somethingthat could be hurtful or harmful?
And I don't have the answers to that.
(11:15):
Of course, we live in a capitalistsociety, so of course, like
everybody wants to capitalize oneverything and like, hello, we gotta
make money to live, survive, eat,exist, enjoy all of that stuff.
So I'm not saying like don't, but I thinkhaving this conversation of, okay, when
I'm teaching personal branding, or ifI want to get into personal branding,
(11:36):
or if you are looking for a personalbrand strategist, or a brand strategist
or a personal brand coach or whatever.
Are they also gonna talk to youabout parasocial relationships?
Because I feel like once you startbuilding your personal brand, once you
start showing up as a thought leader,as a change maker, as an influencer, as
a creator, um, as a business owner whowants to share more, then by default,
(11:58):
I think just because of the way theinternet works, just because of the
way our current culture works withcelebrities or social media and all
that, the parasocial relationship endsup being created anyways, even if we
are trying not to, and that gets intolike a whole other situation because it
(12:20):
creates like this dynamic between thepersona or the person, the brand, the
personal brand, the thought leader, and.
, the community, the audience,the followers, the people who
are consuming that content.
So I wanted to share my personalexperience about this because
I don't think I actually hadlanguage to talk about Parasocial
(12:43):
relationships until just recently.
Cause I didn't know that thatis what was happening to me.
I just felt like, oh, kind of weird that.
People act like they really know mewhen they don't, or kind of weird that
people tell me things like, oh, youknow, that didn't really seem like you.
I was actually surprisedthat you like did that.
I'm like, huh, that's weird.
I wonder why they thought that,because like, y'all don't know me.
(13:06):
Um, and maybe like it happened to mewhen I thought, oh, that's interesting
that Miley Cyrus would do thatbecause like, that's out of character.
Who was I to be sayingsomething like that?
Who was I to be like judging orthinking or putting an opinion out
there about like, oh, that's weird, i, Iwouldn't have done that if I was Miley.
My a whole other present.
It's not like we're on a firstname basis or anything, but
I'm just saying Miley now.
(13:26):
Um, but okay, so let me share mypersonal experience about what
this, like Parasocial relationshiplooked like in my own life.
So I didn't realize that some peoplehad a parasocial relationship with me,
and that sounds like super arrogant.
Like when I was writing out, likemy outline in my notes for this
episode, I wrote that out and waslike, gosh, sound like a little
wanna be celebrity or something.
(13:47):
But it's true, and I don't mean thisin like an arrogant or hot shit way.
I just genuinely didn't realize thatsome people had a parasocial relationship
with me because I do share a lotonline and I have been sharing a lot of
myself online for a really long time.
Um, I mean, I startedblogging at 13 years old.
I don't know what you blog about at 13,I think it was a lot of teenage angst
(14:10):
and like , lots of what am I doingwith my life and like, ugh, you know,
relationship problems and all that stuff.
Uh, friendship problemsor bullying, I don't know.
But I started really like blogging andsharing about myself and like, about
my experience, about my thoughts, myopinions, um, online at 13 years old and
since like, social media then became awhole thing I think when I was in college.
(14:34):
Then I started, you know, sharing moreabout myself and I started opening up my
life to be consumed, I guess, or to likeshare my experiences with other people,
and I didn't realize that by doing thatI would, I basically created a pair of
social relationship with me and the peoplewho follow me, acquaintances, friends,
(14:55):
family, people, I don't know, et cetera.
It was interesting because like yes,with like my family and friends and
like, especially my close friends,like, they see me, they know me.
They understand certain things about meand like situations in my life, because
we're having conversations off of socialmedia, we're like talking about real
(15:17):
life things in not online settings.
But I think what I found was superinteresting was that when I met.
Acquaintances or like people thatI had built a somewhat relationship
with on social media, specificallyInstagram, um, when I met them
in real life, it was strange.
It was strange.
And let me share why next, but it wasjust strange because that's when the
(15:42):
parasocial relationship manifested itself.
And it wasn't just alsomeeting in real life.
Like sometimes, you know, Iwould be building a relationship
with somebody through Instagramdms or something like that.
And like we would just chat back andforth and like support one another.
And of course that happened withlike other people who were not
just other business owners or likeother creators or things like that.
There were just like other people wholived a similar lifestyle like I do.
(16:06):
Uh, somebody who has lived abroad fora long time, somebody who is in an
intercultural relationship sometimestheir access to me via direct messages
on Instagram got into a questionableterritory because I think it got in two
parasocial relationship dynamic and Ididn't necessarily have the knowledge
or the language to like name it.
(16:26):
And now that I do, I'm thinking backand I'm like, whoa, that was weird.
So it really felt like peoplewere entitled to my life.
And I know like the entireepisode is gonna sound like,
oh gosh, Cassandra thinks likeshe is so hot shit or whatever.
But this is my experience, and this ismy podcast, so let me lemme share it
anyways, I felt like people were entitledto my life and this is what happened
(16:49):
when I met up with like acquaintancesor people I like, kind of knew.
Uh, they would ask me like when we met upin person or maybe we had like a virtual
coffee chat or something, they would askme really, really personal questions,
like super personal to the pointwhere I was like, whoa, that's weird.
And I felt like it was weirdmainly because this was the first
time I was meeting this person.
(17:09):
Maybe we've exchanged messages hereand there through Instagram, but
we're not at that level of like forme personally, I did not feel like we
were at this level of comfortabilityand like trust for me to be sharing
or answering such personal questions.
But maybe because of the parasocialrelationship that I had developed
with this person, they felt like theycould ask me those personal questions.
(17:32):
They didn't feel like they werepersonal because they had been
watching my stories on Instagram.
They had been consuming my content.
They knew about things, uh, in mylife, and they asked personal questions
and they brought up informationthat I, I had shared online and
they wanted to know more about thethings that I shared about online.
So let's say for example, I shareabout a difficult situation I went
(17:54):
through when I went on a trip.
I don't know, something like that.
And, maybe I share somethingvague and like general.
And then if I were to ever meet thatperson, I think this happened like
once or twice, uh, somebody actuallywas like, oh, I saw that you posted
about this, like what happened?
Is everything okay?
You know, just asking really nosyand inquisitive questions where like,
(18:18):
I didn't feel comfortable becauseI was like, whoa, whatever I shared
online is whatever I shared online.
It doesn't mean that it's necessarilya conversation starter to dig more.
But apparently they felt like it was, andthis also happened when people started
sharing opinions and assumptions about mewith me that I didn't necessarily ask for.
(18:39):
I think one of my businessmentors, uh, she told us that like,
unsolicited feedback, unsolicitedopinions and advice are actually
not nice, a little bit harmful.
We don't know if this person wantsto receive this feedback from you.
We don't know if this personlike wants your opinion and then
like giving it all the time.
(19:00):
It's kind of like entitled.
So that's kind of what happened to me.
People started sharing their opinionsand assumptions about me with me,
or opinions and assumptions aboutwhat I should be doing, what I
should or how I should show up.
And I thought that that was sostrange because I just thought to
myself like, y'all don't know me.
Y'all don't know.
Like my life.
Yes, I share it online, but there's like awhole other thing that you all don't see.
(19:23):
And I think what happened was likepeople started acting like they knew,
they know me, knew about my life, likethey know everything that happened and
they wanted to know even deeper details.
And I get it because like if I sharesomething online, if I've already put
it out in public, then yes, it likeopens up potentially like opportunities
(19:49):
for people to ask questions.
Uh, so I understand like this is alittle bit ironic and almost like,
not, I don't know if this is me being ahypocrite, uh, and if it is, let me know.
But it's almost, it's ironic becauseI understand that like if I post about
this online, it can, you know, open upcommunication channels for people to ask.
(20:10):
But then I also think to myself, ifI post this online, whatever I posted
online is what I feel comfortable sharing.
It's not necessarily an invitationto talk about it more with me
unless I feel comfortable doing so.
And I think it's very interesting whensomebody brings up something that I
share about online to ask more questionsbecause we are not at that level of
(20:36):
comfortability specifically for me.
I am not at that level ofcomfortability with this person.
And I feel like because of the parasocialrelationship that has potentially been
created around like my persona, thisbrand that I have, it opens up the uh,
I guess, communication ways for somebodyto feel like they could talk about it.
(20:57):
And I don't wanna like bash onpeople or like, you know, sound
really upset, uh, that this happened.
It was a little bit weird and I thinkit like, threw me off whenever, like,
situations like this happened to me.
But I also wanna say like, I'mreally appreciative of every single
person that's shown up for me, uh,supported me, shared my stuff, etc.
(21:19):
I feel like having your support andengagement is really awesome and it's
helped me grow and given me the chanceto do some really cool things and be
able to give back to the community.
And I'm grateful for the communitythat I've built, but sometimes I do
question like, when does it, like whendoes this relationship almost get a
little bit unhealthy for both parts?
(21:41):
Like for me as the person whois like creating and sharing,
and for somebody who is consum.
And feeling inspired or like,you know, feeling like, oh,
I have access to this person.
I can ask them more questions.
So I don't have answers to that.
If you have answers or like ideasor thoughts, please let me know.
(22:01):
Uh, send me a DM on Instagram@CassandraTLe because it's
like an interesting dynamic.
Like I, I don't know if there is asolution for a Parasocial relationship.
I don't necessarily know if they're bad.
Or if they're good, they just are.
And I think having like specificboundaries for yourself as the persona,
(22:23):
the person creating the thought leader,celebrity, personal, brand, influencer,
whatever it is, and then, uh, stickingto those boundaries and then, you know,
like clearly communicating them with youraudience or community, your followers and
all of that stuff is really important.
And then on the consumer side,really understanding like, hey,
there's a person behind that screen.
Like there's a person with like awhole other thing that like you just
(22:47):
won't ever know because people aren'tgonna share the whole thing online.
I mean there are some people I'm suredo, but I don't think everybody does.
So here are my thoughts on likeparasocial relationships and
just like reminders, I think to.
and like to myself when I'mconsuming other people that I like,
(23:07):
admire and really enjoy following.
And also to other people whopotentially are consuming my content
and feeling like some type of way.
And if this comes out harsh, my bad, butalso like I feel like it needs to be said.
So just a quick reminder thaty'all don't really know me.
Y'all don't know.
(23:27):
You know, parts of me, you know, certainpersonalities I have, you know about
some of the layers I have and that's it.
You don't know the whole me.
And to be honest, like Idon't know the whole me.
Um, I couldn't know the whole me.
I'm always on a journey tounderstand the whole me.
So if you think you know the wholeme and I'm still exploring who I.
(23:50):
I don't know.
There's a little disconnect right there.
And this is like a reminderto myself too, right?
Like if I'm watching somebody's content orI'm like judging somebody from across like
through the screen, I also have to remindmyself like I don't really know them.
I don't know all of them.
I only know some of the layersthat they choose to share.
And I feel like this is not really whatpersonal branding people or personal
(24:11):
branding strategists or coaches aresupposed to say ,but I feel like I need
to say it like you will never reallyknow me and I will never really know you.
And the reason being is because I've setboundaries around what I share online.
I've set boundaries around mypersonal life and what I feel
comfortable sharing with the world.
(24:32):
And like I said before, I don'treally know all of me yet.
So how could you knowall of me disconnect?
Y'all disconnect.
And also a reminder, What I shareonline, and I don't know if this
applies to everybody, so I'm justgonna speak for myself, but I feel like
what I share online is what I actuallyfeel comfortable sharing online.
That doesn't mean that it is aconversation starter if we don't know
each other for you to ask more questions.
(24:54):
Whatever I share online iswhatever I share online, and
if I decide to dive deeper.
And explain certain things, thenI can, but this is more of like
a personal reminder for myself.
Like I don't owe peopleexplanations or more information.
Like if I choose to just sharelike X, Y, Z, this, I don't need to
go into A, B, C, D, E, F, G that.
(25:14):
And I also want to share like, Ichoose what I want to share and I feel
really happy with the boundaries thatI've created around my, around like
social media and my personal brand.
It's taken me like a reallylong time to be able to do that.
I feel like I've been working in this fearfor 10 plus years and it's taken me about
(25:34):
10 plus years to feel okay with what Ishare online and like the boundaries that
I finally set for myself, like beforethen I, I think, you know, people really
felt like they were entitled to my timeand like my expertise without paying me.
And uh, it was also because my lack ofboundaries to share that at another time.
I like quit social media entirelybecause I was like, I feel
(25:57):
commodified from like other people.
I felt like I was being commodified.
And then I also quit social media again,her Instagram specifically because I
felt like I was commodifying myself.
So it's like a whole, a whole thing.
And now after like all of theseexperience, I, I feel like, okay, I
feel at peace with the boundaries thatI've set for myself finally around
(26:20):
social media, my personal brand, andjust exploring this conversation with
you all on this podcast is kind oflike, wow, I feel good about this.
Like, I don't feel resentment towardsyou, whoever's listening to this.
I don't feel resentment towards myself.
I don't feel frustrated.
I'm just like more curious as to whatyou all think about this like parasocial
(26:41):
relationship that is formed, uh, throughsocial media and like online interactions.
So those are like my reminders to myself.
And I guess I wanted to go into like,okay, if you all don't really know me,
um, if you all can't really, reallyknow me and I don't really know myself,
(27:05):
who gets to see the, the real me whogets to see the real, real Cassandra,
and I have a couple answers to this.
I feel like, I don't know they're theright answers, but these are mine.
I feel like it's just me.
I get to see the real, real me.
Um, my partner gets to see the realme, my sisters, my closest friends.
And then even then, there areparts of myself that not everyone
(27:26):
will have full access to.
And I think that's okay.
Like I can't share all of it.
And also, I, I think I remember reading anarticle that shared that ,you know, there
are different parts of our personalitiesthat come out when we are with like
specific people, and that means likethe way I show up online, it's still me.
(27:46):
It's probably not like the full fullme because there are certain parts
of myself that I would like to keepprivate and intimate and that's okay.
And then there are certain parts ofme that I just don't share with like
other people in my life because maybe.
They don't vibe like that.
They don't understand.
These are like more conversationsthat I would have for like this
(28:06):
friend group or that friendgroup, and I think that's okay.
I feel like the only people who really,really know my deepest, darkest fears and
secrets and feelings are my therapists.
Shoutout to Janelle and also my partner).
But I don't even shareeverything all the time.
With, with everyone.
I feel like my journal is probablythe thing that knows like the
(28:27):
deepest, darkest, super, super,most secret, secret things.
Uh, so if you gotta hand on my journalmm, awkward, then you would know.
But that thing is, uh, always withme and will never be revealed and uh,
I, something that I, I think aboutoften is like, and I actually had
this conversation with my therapist,um, maybe about a month or two ago.
(28:50):
I used to think that I was like a superclose off person because I didn't want to
share all of myself or all of my thoughts,my feelings with everyone all the time.
I'm very selective withlike who I share stuff with.
Um, and I used to think though that Iwas like a bad person or like a closed
off person, or not a good friend, sister,daughter, um, et cetera, because I
(29:12):
don't share all the things with all thepeople, but I'm learning that I don't
really need to, like, you know, it'swhatever I feel comfortable with, right?
Like, if I feel more comfortablewith this person and about this
topic, then of course I'm gonnashare more with them about that.
And if I feel less comfortable withthis group about this topic that I'm
(29:32):
gonna share less about that with them.
Do I need to share everything allthe time with all the peoples?
I don't know.
That might just be a question for you all.
If you have thoughts, let me know.
But I do think like it's a privilegeto be in someone's inner circle, and I
think that's, That's probably what thisis like if you are in somebody's inner
circle, this is now like less about theparasocial relationship and more about
like a in-person real life relationship,friendship or whatever it is.
(29:56):
If you are in someone's inner circle.
I think that's a reallygreat privilege to have.
And I, I guess in a more socialmedia perspective, in parasocial
relationships, can you be insomeone's inner circle fully.
If it's a parasocial relationship?
I don't know.
And is it healthy or sustainable tohave that intimacy with someone that you
(30:20):
are in a parasocial relationship with?
Personally, I don't think I couldbecause like, like I mentioned before,
I felt like I was being commodified,like people were just coming to me for
like brand messaging, content marketing,information or like they wanted to
consume my content, ask me a whole bunchof questions and leave without like an
(30:42):
equal and reciprocal energy exchange.
And then I also felt like I wascommodifying myself trying to
capitalize on everything to like createdeeper relationships or connections
and like to sell more through,you know, sharing more intimate,
personal, vulnerable parts of myself.
And I realize, okay, Ican't do that because.
(31:05):
I want to keep most of like my superintimate and personal things to
myself and not share it with people.
And it's taken me a while tolike come to terms with that.
But yeah.
I also wanna give y'all a reminderthat social media is a highlight
reel, like we all curate.
And that's okay because that's kindof what social media is meant for.
But I think it's super important tojust keep that in mind, especially
(31:30):
if you're noticing, oh, I'm forming aparasocial relationship with somebody
and maybe I don't know all the things.
You know, like I'm sure there areother personal brands, creators, um,
people who are business owners whoare thinking, oh my gosh, I have to
like, create what people want to see.
I have to live life for others.
(31:51):
I have to like, you know,mine my life for content.
And this is something that Italked about in the episode where
I talked about how being the nicheslash brand as toxic as fuck.
Still believe that.
And I think maybe the parasocialrelationship aspect kind of ties it all
together because like if we are mining ourlife for content, or if we are, you know,
(32:13):
the brand, the niche, and really creatingsomething around our personalities all the
time forever, are we creating a parasocialrelationship on purpose with our audience?
Or do we want to create a pair of socialrelationship so then we can sell to them?
I mean, sure.
People want to subscribe tocertain things like that.
(32:34):
People want to, you know, pay andlike be part of a community because
they really identify with somebodythat they are, that they found online.
And that's totally fine.
I mean, like the worldis moving towards that.
That's what the creatoreconomy is all about.
But these are just like questions and likea whole other layer to personal branding
(32:55):
or you know, social media that I thinkwe aren't having a conversation around.
So I've got some Parasocial relationshipquestions to wrap up this episode.
And I've got it from the point ofview of a, um, consumers, so somebody
who follows and is really invested insomebody else that they see online.
(33:20):
And then also from the person sharing.
The first three questions I've gotare from the consumer, so somebody who
is invested in somebody else and theyfeel like an emotional connection.
You feel like really inspired bythis person and all of that stuff.
Three questions are, where do youfeel like you want to know more
about someone else's life andalmost expect them to share more?
(33:41):
Why?
What is that area tryingto tell you about?
Like maybe how you wanna show up.
Number two, what does theparasocial relationship mean?
How does this person impact you orinspire you and maybe exploring that
can give you an insight into what yourmessage is or you know, areas to work
on in your life for personal developmentor professional development, self-love,
(34:05):
self-awareness, and all that stuff.
And number three, if they are a black,indigenous person of color, queer,
disabled, creator, or personal brand,are you supporting them with your money?
If possible.
Or by sharing their work so then theycan continue to create the content
that has given you a sense of comfort.
(34:25):
Or are you consumingfor free all the time?
Because that's also not fair, especiallybecause like as a black indigenous person
of color, as a queer person, as a disabledcreator or brand, um, I'm not disabled,
but like people who belong in these likeidentities or have these identities,
the internet, social media, uh, thesealgorithms not made for people like that.
(34:47):
So are you supporting them in differentways so that they can continue creating
content that like comforts you, inspiresyou, motivates you, and all that stuff,
because that's also really important.
Creators, brands, personal brands,thought leaders, small business owners
are not just here for your consumption.
Like, again, reminder, thereare people behind the screen.
So those are the threequestions for the consumers.
(35:08):
This is one question from theperspective of the person who is sharing.
So if you want to have a personalbrand, if you want to be a creator, if
you wanna be a thought leader, smallbusiness owner, anything like that.
If you want to start like sharingyour message and sharing content,
where can you create boundariesaround all of this stuff?
And how do you continue to show upas yourself without letting others
(35:31):
dictate who you are and what you want?
/ feel comfortable with sharing online.
Personally, if you are like, oh my gosh.
Well, that's a question Idon't have an answer to.
Uh, I do have an answer.
Um, for me, I think it's getting reallyclear on not just your boundaries.
So like boundaries of like whatyou are comfortable sharing, what
(35:52):
you aren't comfortable sharing,but also your expectations.
Like if somebody were to come intoyour community, and it's a little bit
hard for social media, but like, let'ssay you have a, different community.
If somebody were to come into yourcommunity , what are their expectations?
What are like the guidelines forinteracting in this community?
What are, what do you expect?
(36:12):
And this is not like, oh, I expectyou to pay $5 to subscribe to me.
No.
It's like, okay, we don'ttalk in a violent way.
We don't discriminate.
Things like that.
I think having that in placeis really, really important.
And then also being really clearon what your brand message and core
values are, not just as a brand or apersona, but like as a, as a human,
(36:39):
like what are your core values?
What is the messagethat you want to share?
And I think that's really important tohave before going out and trying to like,
you know, have other people dictate whoyou are and what you want, such as feel
comfortable with sharing online or likethe type of content that you put out.
I think having all of that stuffin the beginning is really, really
(37:00):
important to create like a healthierboundary around social media and
like this whole idea of content andconsumption and all of that stuff.
And also I think a healthier boundaryaround like the parasocial relationship
that will probably form and manifestitself even if you don't want to, because
(37:21):
it's just how currently social mediaand the internet and our consumption,
culture and society works right now.
Unfortunately, fortunately, who knows?
I mean, fortunately because youcan like make money doing this,
unfortunately, because people feellike they're entitled to your life.
Uh, it's both.
And so yeah, that's, that's kindof what I wanted to talk about with
(37:46):
this parasocial relationship thing.
I am curious as to whatyou all are thinking.
Uh, send me a message on Instagram@CassandraTLe and let's, let's talk
about it because now that I've gotthe language to put around this,
I feel like I'm like invested.
I wanna knowmore.
All right y'all.
That's all I've got for this episode.
I will see you in the next one.
(38:08):
Stay fierce, fam.
If you're hearing this message, that meansyou made it to the end of this episode.
Yay.
Thanks for listening.
If you enjoyed this episode and thoughtto yourself, whoa, it to me, I'd love
if you could share this with others.
Post about it on social mediaand or leave a rating and review.
Don't forget to subscribeto, wanna hang out with me in
(38:30):
other areas of the internet.
You can follow me on Instagram@CassandraTLe for brand message and
content marketing tips and resources.
Check out my business@TheQuirkyPineappleStudio.
Thanks again and seeyou in the next episode.
Stay Fierce Fam.
I don't think I actually hadlanguage to talk about parasocial
relationships until just recently.
Cause I didn't know that thatis what was happening to me.
I just felt like, oh, kind of weirdthat people act like they really know
me when they don't, or kind of weirdthat people tell me things like, oh, you
know, that didn't really seem like you.
I was actually surprisedthat you like did that.
(00:22):
I'm like, huh, that's weird.
I wonder why they thought that,because like, y'all don't know me.
Hello.
Hello everyone.
I'm Cassandra Le and you'relistening to I'm lost, so what?
The podcast exploring betweenbelonging and carving your own path
for all the peeps out there who kindof know what you're doing, but still
question what the fuck is going on?
(00:42):
Yeah, I'm with ya.
Hello, hello, and welcomeback to the I'm Lost, so what?
podcast!
Y'all know the drill, right?
This is your host, Cassandra, andtoday we are going to be talking
about, do you all really know me?
And really the question is,do you all really know the
people that you follow online?
(01:03):
We're gonna dive into what Parasocialrelationships are and how, mm,
I don't wanna say toxic, but howinteresting they can be, especially
from a cultural perspective.
So if you don't know, whatare Parasocial relationships?
This definition I got fromfind a psychologist.org.
(01:26):
And I've linked this article in theshow notes so you can check it out.
I also wanna mention that I first heardabout this term in one of the Try Guys
video after they had a huge scandal inlate 2022 with their ex fourth member.
If you don't know who the Try Guysare, Well, I'll link this video,
this tripod, their podcast episode inthe show notes where they talk about
(01:50):
this whole situation, the drama thatthey had, and then also they mention
what Parasocial relationships areand like how it has affected them.
But let's get into what isactually a parasocial relationship.
So a parasocial relationship isa one-sided relationship where
one person extends emotionalenergy, interest, and time.
(02:11):
This is usually the person who isconsuming content or following somebody
online, and the other party, the persona.
It's completely unawareof the other's existence.
So I think this changes a little bit.
I'll get into this later on inthe episode, but it changes a
little bit because it's not likein a parasocial relationship now
with how the world is working withthe internet and social media.
(02:31):
It's not like people don't realizethat, uh, other people don't exist,
but maybe they don't have like thesame type of relationship because
one person is consuming and followingand feeling like they really know
somebody, and the other person isthe one that is producing content.
So let me read that again.
A parasocial relationship is a one-sidedrelationship where one person extends
(02:51):
emotional energy, interest, and time, andthe other party the persona is completely
unaware of the other's existence.
Parasocial relationships are most commonwith celebrities organizations such
as sports teams or television stars.
And where do we mostly see Parasocialrelationships in our lives?
We usually see them with, like I've justread in the definition with celebrities.
(03:14):
So movie stars, actors, reality TV stars.
Could be sports players / teams.
It could be music artists, itcould be artists in general.
Could be anybody like famous thatwe know of and follow online or
that we see on television and.
What's a new pair of social relationshipthat is actually rising because now
(03:38):
we have to look at it from our currentsystem and our current, I guess,
socioeconomic political world, andwe have to take into account things
like the internet and social media.
So the new, this is my opinion, the newpair of social relationship that is rising
are with people who are personal brands.
(04:01):
So like influencers, thoughtleaders, creators, business owners.
And anyone we follow on social media thatwe feel connected to, inspired by and
we consume their content on a regularbasis and are interested / curious in.
So now it's not just celebrities,sports players, teams, music artists,
(04:23):
reality, TV stars, people who I thinkwhen I was growing up, when I followed
them, like I think about when I wassuper, super invested in like Rihanna's
life, um, I was like hardcore fan.
And also same with Miley Cyrus.
I was like obsessed with Rihanna andMiley Cyrus growing up and I would
follow them and like, you know, getreally invested in like their decisions
(04:43):
and what they do, how they dress,what they eat, and all of that stuff.
And I think before social media andbefore like super internet culture,
we would kind of like have parasocialrelationships with people who were famous.
People who we kind of like idolizedpeople who we thought were like super
(05:03):
far away from us and they were notlike in our sphere or in our world.
But now with the rise of internetculture and with the rise of social
media, we are basically now movinginto a different type of parasocial
relationship that deals more close feels-it like tangible because of social media.
(05:25):
So what I think is that social media isbreaking the fourth wall in relationships
and giving us access to celebrities orpeople that we admire because it's easy.
Like if you're followingsomebody on social media, it's
easy to send them a message.
It's easy to like, you know, reachout, respond to their stories, and of
course, like I'm following Adam Mosserion Instagram and he's like coming
(05:47):
out with new updates every so oftenabout Instagram and like what to do.
Here's how we're like improving, you know,access for creators to like connect with
their communities and all of this stuff.
And it's basically breaking thefourth wall so that you know this
parasocial relationship that we oncehad with people that we felt were so
far away from us, who lived in likea totally different world than we did
(06:09):
because they were celebrities, famouspeople, super rich people, whatever.
Now it's bringing it down to earth.
It's making it more tangible.
It's making it more real.
It's making it more accessible and like,oh, they're not so different than me.
I am not so different than them.
We're like, we're buds,we're bfs, we're friends.
And if you think about it, even onTikTok, people before like, Hey, bestie,
(06:30):
what's up, bestie ,bestie, we're notdoing this today, bestie don't do that.
And like we are creating thisparasocial relationship too.
It's not just, you know that previouslyin the definition it was defined that,
you know, the, there was a person orgroup of people who were invested in
somebody and then there was a persona.
No, it's not like that anymore becausewe are also as the persona, the brand,
(06:55):
the person, the celebrity, the personalbrand, the influencer, the creator.
We're almost like creating thisper parasocial relationship because
we're bringing it down to earth.
We're making it more tangible.
We're making it more accessible.
We're like breaking that fourth wall.
And if y'all aren't sure whatthe fourth wall is, I have a
definition here just in case.
But the fourth wall is a, I took thisfrom Wikipedia, so it's quite technical.
(07:18):
I'll read this and then explain.
So the fourth wall is a performanceconvention in which an invisible imaginary
wall separates actors from the audience.
While the audience can see throughthis wall, the convention assumes
the actors act as if they cannot.
So for example, it's like when you'rewatching a movie and I think in one
of the Deadpool movies, uh, RyanReynolds like, looks directly to the
(07:40):
camera and like talks to the camera.
They're talking to us, the audiencemembers who are watching the movie
that is breaking the fourth wall.
And I feel like social media is breakingthis fourth wall in relationships
because it's giving us access, uh,to people in a really different way.
And it is creating like thisopen channel of communication.
(08:02):
So we see this on TikTok for surebecause people are definitely
talking more directly, more openly.
We follow people because they'resharing more of their life.
You know, we're commenting,they're engaging back.
Uh, we see this on Instagram forsure because like, you know, Adam
is coming out with like new thingsevery other week and saying, you
know, we're doing this for creators.
(08:22):
We wanna be able to.
Give creators access to their communities.
We wanna create like direct channelsso that people can talk to each other.
We want, you know, yourcommunity to be involved.
Uh, that is basically breaking thefourth wall because now it's not
this like god-like celebrity that,you know, we didn't have access to.
They're all on Instagram and TikTok.
(08:43):
Like we are the normal peopleand we're able to like, create
this relationship with them.
That is a different type ofparasocial relationship now.
It's not just oh I consume andyou know, you're over there.
It's really bringing it down to, yeah,we're on the same playing field now.
Like, yeah, sure.
We we're different because whenyou're a celebrity, but like I
(09:06):
can also become celebrity statusbecause of Instagram, because of
TikTok, because of social media.
That is wild.
So when social media is breaking thefourth wall, it's things like, you
know, being able to DM people directly,direct message them, being able to
consume more of their content andlike control your settings so that the
(09:28):
people that you follow, you can control,like how often you see their stuff.
You can make sure that youalways see their things.
Uh, you can actually pay them directlybecause you love and want to support
their content, all of that stuff.
And that is, that's really differentthan what the parasocial relationship
(09:49):
was in the beginning when we didn'thave social media or the internet, or at
least it was like heavy internet culture.
So I, I love exploring this because Iwork specifically in personal branding
for thought leaders, for businessowners, for people who like, feel
like they have a message to share.
And I feel like people don't talkabout this when they teach personal
(10:09):
branding because you know, we're peoplewho are teaching personal branding
on Instagram or like other personalbranding experts or coaches or whatever,
strategists, they're more talkingabout like, okay, how can you show up?
How can you be real?
How can you show up andshare more of your lifestyle?
How can you build an emotional connectionwith people through your content?
How can you start engaging with yourfollowers, et cetera, to build trust?
(10:32):
And those are the things thatare all really important.
But I really think that we need toalso have this conversation on the
side of, or maybe a, a conversation,not really on the side, but like
another whole as conversation aboutparasocial relationships when we start
building our personal brands, becauseare we like creating a parasocial
relationship with our people?
(10:54):
Are we intentionally doing that?
Do we want to do that?
Is that something that issustainable and helpful for us?
Is that something sustainableand helpful for them?
Or are we capitalizing on somethingthat could be hurtful or harmful?
And I don't have the answers to that.
(11:15):
Of course, we live in a capitalistsociety, so of course, like
everybody wants to capitalize oneverything and like, hello, we gotta
make money to live, survive, eat,exist, enjoy all of that stuff.
So I'm not saying like don't, but I thinkhaving this conversation of, okay, when
I'm teaching personal branding, or ifI want to get into personal branding,
(11:36):
or if you are looking for a personalbrand strategist, or a brand strategist
or a personal brand coach or whatever.
Are they also gonna talk to youabout parasocial relationships?
Because I feel like once you startbuilding your personal brand, once you
start showing up as a thought leader,as a change maker, as an influencer, as
a creator, um, as a business owner whowants to share more, then by default,
(11:58):
I think just because of the way theinternet works, just because of the
way our current culture works withcelebrities or social media and all
that, the parasocial relationship endsup being created anyways, even if we
are trying not to, and that gets intolike a whole other situation because it
(12:20):
creates like this dynamic between thepersona or the person, the brand, the
personal brand, the thought leader, and.
, the community, the audience,the followers, the people who
are consuming that content.
So I wanted to share my personalexperience about this because
I don't think I actually hadlanguage to talk about Parasocial
(12:43):
relationships until just recently.
Cause I didn't know that thatis what was happening to me.
I just felt like, oh, kind of weird that.
People act like they really know mewhen they don't, or kind of weird that
people tell me things like, oh, youknow, that didn't really seem like you.
I was actually surprisedthat you like did that.
I'm like, huh, that's weird.
I wonder why they thought that,because like, y'all don't know me.
(13:06):
Um, and maybe like it happened to mewhen I thought, oh, that's interesting
that Miley Cyrus would do thatbecause like, that's out of character.
Who was I to be sayingsomething like that?
Who was I to be like judging orthinking or putting an opinion out
there about like, oh, that's weird, i, Iwouldn't have done that if I was Miley.
My a whole other present.
It's not like we're on a firstname basis or anything, but
I'm just saying Miley now.
(13:26):
Um, but okay, so let me share mypersonal experience about what
this, like Parasocial relationshiplooked like in my own life.
So I didn't realize that some peoplehad a parasocial relationship with me,
and that sounds like super arrogant.
Like when I was writing out, likemy outline in my notes for this
episode, I wrote that out and waslike, gosh, sound like a little
wanna be celebrity or something.
(13:47):
But it's true, and I don't mean thisin like an arrogant or hot shit way.
I just genuinely didn't realize thatsome people had a parasocial relationship
with me because I do share a lotonline and I have been sharing a lot of
myself online for a really long time.
Um, I mean, I startedblogging at 13 years old.
I don't know what you blog about at 13,I think it was a lot of teenage angst
(14:10):
and like , lots of what am I doingwith my life and like, ugh, you know,
relationship problems and all that stuff.
Uh, friendship problemsor bullying, I don't know.
But I started really like blogging andsharing about myself and like, about
my experience, about my thoughts, myopinions, um, online at 13 years old and
since like, social media then became awhole thing I think when I was in college.
(14:34):
Then I started, you know, sharing moreabout myself and I started opening up my
life to be consumed, I guess, or to likeshare my experiences with other people,
and I didn't realize that by doing thatI would, I basically created a pair of
social relationship with me and the peoplewho follow me, acquaintances, friends,
(14:55):
family, people, I don't know, et cetera.
It was interesting because like yes,with like my family and friends and
like, especially my close friends,like, they see me, they know me.
They understand certain things about meand like situations in my life, because
we're having conversations off of socialmedia, we're like talking about real
(15:17):
life things in not online settings.
But I think what I found was superinteresting was that when I met.
Acquaintances or like people thatI had built a somewhat relationship
with on social media, specificallyInstagram, um, when I met them
in real life, it was strange.
It was strange.
And let me share why next, but it wasjust strange because that's when the
(15:42):
parasocial relationship manifested itself.
And it wasn't just alsomeeting in real life.
Like sometimes, you know, Iwould be building a relationship
with somebody through Instagramdms or something like that.
And like we would just chat back andforth and like support one another.
And of course that happened withlike other people who were not
just other business owners or likeother creators or things like that.
There were just like other people wholived a similar lifestyle like I do.
(16:06):
Uh, somebody who has lived abroad fora long time, somebody who is in an
intercultural relationship sometimestheir access to me via direct messages
on Instagram got into a questionableterritory because I think it got in two
parasocial relationship dynamic and Ididn't necessarily have the knowledge
or the language to like name it.
(16:26):
And now that I do, I'm thinking backand I'm like, whoa, that was weird.
So it really felt like peoplewere entitled to my life.
And I know like the entireepisode is gonna sound like,
oh gosh, Cassandra thinks likeshe is so hot shit or whatever.
But this is my experience, and this ismy podcast, so let me lemme share it
anyways, I felt like people were entitledto my life and this is what happened
(16:49):
when I met up with like acquaintancesor people I like, kind of knew.
Uh, they would ask me like when we met upin person or maybe we had like a virtual
coffee chat or something, they would askme really, really personal questions,
like super personal to the pointwhere I was like, whoa, that's weird.
And I felt like it was weirdmainly because this was the first
time I was meeting this person.
(17:09):
Maybe we've exchanged messages hereand there through Instagram, but
we're not at that level of like forme personally, I did not feel like we
were at this level of comfortabilityand like trust for me to be sharing
or answering such personal questions.
But maybe because of the parasocialrelationship that I had developed
with this person, they felt like theycould ask me those personal questions.
(17:32):
They didn't feel like they werepersonal because they had been
watching my stories on Instagram.
They had been consuming my content.
They knew about things, uh, in mylife, and they asked personal questions
and they brought up informationthat I, I had shared online and
they wanted to know more about thethings that I shared about online.
So let's say for example, I shareabout a difficult situation I went
(17:54):
through when I went on a trip.
I don't know, something like that.
And, maybe I share somethingvague and like general.
And then if I were to ever meet thatperson, I think this happened like
once or twice, uh, somebody actuallywas like, oh, I saw that you posted
about this, like what happened?
Is everything okay?
You know, just asking really nosyand inquisitive questions where like,
(18:18):
I didn't feel comfortable becauseI was like, whoa, whatever I shared
online is whatever I shared online.
It doesn't mean that it's necessarilya conversation starter to dig more.
But apparently they felt like it was, andthis also happened when people started
sharing opinions and assumptions about mewith me that I didn't necessarily ask for.
(18:39):
I think one of my businessmentors, uh, she told us that like,
unsolicited feedback, unsolicitedopinions and advice are actually
not nice, a little bit harmful.
We don't know if this person wantsto receive this feedback from you.
We don't know if this personlike wants your opinion and then
like giving it all the time.
(19:00):
It's kind of like entitled.
So that's kind of what happened to me.
People started sharing their opinionsand assumptions about me with me,
or opinions and assumptions aboutwhat I should be doing, what I
should or how I should show up.
And I thought that that was sostrange because I just thought to
myself like, y'all don't know me.
Y'all don't know.
Like my life.
Yes, I share it online, but there's like awhole other thing that you all don't see.
(19:23):
And I think what happened was likepeople started acting like they knew,
they know me, knew about my life, likethey know everything that happened and
they wanted to know even deeper details.
And I get it because like if I sharesomething online, if I've already put
it out in public, then yes, it likeopens up potentially like opportunities
(19:49):
for people to ask questions.
Uh, so I understand like this is alittle bit ironic and almost like,
not, I don't know if this is me being ahypocrite, uh, and if it is, let me know.
But it's almost, it's ironic becauseI understand that like if I post about
this online, it can, you know, open upcommunication channels for people to ask.
(20:10):
But then I also think to myself, ifI post this online, whatever I posted
online is what I feel comfortable sharing.
It's not necessarily an invitationto talk about it more with me
unless I feel comfortable doing so.
And I think it's very interesting whensomebody brings up something that I
share about online to ask more questionsbecause we are not at that level of
(20:36):
comfortability specifically for me.
I am not at that level ofcomfortability with this person.
And I feel like because of the parasocialrelationship that has potentially been
created around like my persona, thisbrand that I have, it opens up the uh,
I guess, communication ways for somebodyto feel like they could talk about it.
(20:57):
And I don't wanna like bash onpeople or like, you know, sound
really upset, uh, that this happened.
It was a little bit weird and I thinkit like, threw me off whenever, like,
situations like this happened to me.
But I also wanna say like, I'mreally appreciative of every single
person that's shown up for me, uh,supported me, shared my stuff, etc.
(21:19):
I feel like having your support andengagement is really awesome and it's
helped me grow and given me the chanceto do some really cool things and be
able to give back to the community.
And I'm grateful for the communitythat I've built, but sometimes I do
question like, when does it, like whendoes this relationship almost get a
little bit unhealthy for both parts?
(21:41):
Like for me as the person whois like creating and sharing,
and for somebody who is consum.
And feeling inspired or like,you know, feeling like, oh,
I have access to this person.
I can ask them more questions.
So I don't have answers to that.
If you have answers or like ideasor thoughts, please let me know.
(22:01):
Uh, send me a DM on Instagram@CassandraTLe because it's
like an interesting dynamic.
Like I, I don't know if there is asolution for a Parasocial relationship.
I don't necessarily know if they're bad.
Or if they're good, they just are.
And I think having like specificboundaries for yourself as the persona,
(22:23):
the person creating the thought leader,celebrity, personal, brand, influencer,
whatever it is, and then, uh, stickingto those boundaries and then, you know,
like clearly communicating them with youraudience or community, your followers and
all of that stuff is really important.
And then on the consumer side,really understanding like, hey,
there's a person behind that screen.
Like there's a person with like awhole other thing that like you just
(22:47):
won't ever know because people aren'tgonna share the whole thing online.
I mean there are some people I'm suredo, but I don't think everybody does.
So here are my thoughts on likeparasocial relationships and
just like reminders, I think to.
and like to myself when I'mconsuming other people that I like,
(23:07):
admire and really enjoy following.
And also to other people whopotentially are consuming my content
and feeling like some type of way.
And if this comes out harsh, my bad, butalso like I feel like it needs to be said.
So just a quick reminder thaty'all don't really know me.
Y'all don't know.
(23:27):
You know, parts of me, you know, certainpersonalities I have, you know about
some of the layers I have and that's it.
You don't know the whole me.
And to be honest, like Idon't know the whole me.
Um, I couldn't know the whole me.
I'm always on a journey tounderstand the whole me.
So if you think you know the wholeme and I'm still exploring who I.
(23:50):
I don't know.
There's a little disconnect right there.
And this is like a reminderto myself too, right?
Like if I'm watching somebody's content orI'm like judging somebody from across like
through the screen, I also have to remindmyself like I don't really know them.
I don't know all of them.
I only know some of the layersthat they choose to share.
And I feel like this is not really whatpersonal branding people or personal
(24:11):
branding strategists or coaches aresupposed to say ,but I feel like I need
to say it like you will never reallyknow me and I will never really know you.
And the reason being is because I've setboundaries around what I share online.
I've set boundaries around mypersonal life and what I feel
comfortable sharing with the world.
(24:32):
And like I said before, I don'treally know all of me yet.
So how could you knowall of me disconnect?
Y'all disconnect.
And also a reminder, What I shareonline, and I don't know if this
applies to everybody, so I'm justgonna speak for myself, but I feel like
what I share online is what I actuallyfeel comfortable sharing online.
That doesn't mean that it is aconversation starter if we don't know
each other for you to ask more questions.
(24:54):
Whatever I share online iswhatever I share online, and
if I decide to dive deeper.
And explain certain things, thenI can, but this is more of like
a personal reminder for myself.
Like I don't owe peopleexplanations or more information.
Like if I choose to just sharelike X, Y, Z, this, I don't need to
go into A, B, C, D, E, F, G that.
(25:14):
And I also want to share like, Ichoose what I want to share and I feel
really happy with the boundaries thatI've created around my, around like
social media and my personal brand.
It's taken me like a reallylong time to be able to do that.
I feel like I've been working in this fearfor 10 plus years and it's taken me about
(25:34):
10 plus years to feel okay with what Ishare online and like the boundaries that
I finally set for myself, like beforethen I, I think, you know, people really
felt like they were entitled to my timeand like my expertise without paying me.
And uh, it was also because my lack ofboundaries to share that at another time.
I like quit social media entirelybecause I was like, I feel
(25:57):
commodified from like other people.
I felt like I was being commodified.
And then I also quit social media again,her Instagram specifically because I
felt like I was commodifying myself.
So it's like a whole, a whole thing.
And now after like all of theseexperience, I, I feel like, okay, I
feel at peace with the boundaries thatI've set for myself finally around
(26:20):
social media, my personal brand, andjust exploring this conversation with
you all on this podcast is kind oflike, wow, I feel good about this.
Like, I don't feel resentment towardsyou, whoever's listening to this.
I don't feel resentment towards myself.
I don't feel frustrated.
I'm just like more curious as to whatyou all think about this like parasocial
(26:41):
relationship that is formed, uh, throughsocial media and like online interactions.
So those are like my reminders to myself.
And I guess I wanted to go into like,okay, if you all don't really know me,
um, if you all can't really, reallyknow me and I don't really know myself,
(27:05):
who gets to see the, the real me whogets to see the real, real Cassandra,
and I have a couple answers to this.
I feel like, I don't know they're theright answers, but these are mine.
I feel like it's just me.
I get to see the real, real me.
Um, my partner gets to see the realme, my sisters, my closest friends.
And then even then, there areparts of myself that not everyone
(27:26):
will have full access to.
And I think that's okay.
Like I can't share all of it.
And also, I, I think I remember reading anarticle that shared that ,you know, there
are different parts of our personalitiesthat come out when we are with like
specific people, and that means likethe way I show up online, it's still me.
(27:46):
It's probably not like the full fullme because there are certain parts
of myself that I would like to keepprivate and intimate and that's okay.
And then there are certain parts ofme that I just don't share with like
other people in my life because maybe.
They don't vibe like that.
They don't understand.
These are like more conversationsthat I would have for like this
(28:06):
friend group or that friendgroup, and I think that's okay.
I feel like the only people who really,really know my deepest, darkest fears and
secrets and feelings are my therapists.
Shoutout to Janelle and also my partner).
But I don't even shareeverything all the time.
With, with everyone.
I feel like my journal is probablythe thing that knows like the
(28:27):
deepest, darkest, super, super,most secret, secret things.
Uh, so if you gotta hand on my journalmm, awkward, then you would know.
But that thing is, uh, always withme and will never be revealed and uh,
I, something that I, I think aboutoften is like, and I actually had
this conversation with my therapist,um, maybe about a month or two ago.
(28:50):
I used to think that I was like a superclose off person because I didn't want to
share all of myself or all of my thoughts,my feelings with everyone all the time.
I'm very selective withlike who I share stuff with.
Um, and I used to think though that Iwas like a bad person or like a closed
off person, or not a good friend, sister,daughter, um, et cetera, because I
(29:12):
don't share all the things with all thepeople, but I'm learning that I don't
really need to, like, you know, it'swhatever I feel comfortable with, right?
Like, if I feel more comfortablewith this person and about this
topic, then of course I'm gonnashare more with them about that.
And if I feel less comfortable withthis group about this topic that I'm
(29:32):
gonna share less about that with them.
Do I need to share everything allthe time with all the peoples?
I don't know.
That might just be a question for you all.
If you have thoughts, let me know.
But I do think like it's a privilegeto be in someone's inner circle, and I
think that's, That's probably what thisis like if you are in somebody's inner
circle, this is now like less about theparasocial relationship and more about
like a in-person real life relationship,friendship or whatever it is.
(29:56):
If you are in someone's inner circle.
I think that's a reallygreat privilege to have.
And I, I guess in a more socialmedia perspective, in parasocial
relationships, can you be insomeone's inner circle fully.
If it's a parasocial relationship?
I don't know.
And is it healthy or sustainable tohave that intimacy with someone that you
(30:20):
are in a parasocial relationship with?
Personally, I don't think I couldbecause like, like I mentioned before,
I felt like I was being commodified,like people were just coming to me for
like brand messaging, content marketing,information or like they wanted to
consume my content, ask me a whole bunchof questions and leave without like an
(30:42):
equal and reciprocal energy exchange.
And then I also felt like I wascommodifying myself trying to
capitalize on everything to like createdeeper relationships or connections
and like to sell more through,you know, sharing more intimate,
personal, vulnerable parts of myself.
And I realize, okay, Ican't do that because.
(31:05):
I want to keep most of like my superintimate and personal things to
myself and not share it with people.
And it's taken me a while tolike come to terms with that.
But yeah.
I also wanna give y'all a reminderthat social media is a highlight
reel, like we all curate.
And that's okay because that's kindof what social media is meant for.
But I think it's super important tojust keep that in mind, especially
(31:30):
if you're noticing, oh, I'm forming aparasocial relationship with somebody
and maybe I don't know all the things.
You know, like I'm sure there areother personal brands, creators, um,
people who are business owners whoare thinking, oh my gosh, I have to
like, create what people want to see.
I have to live life for others.
(31:51):
I have to like, you know,mine my life for content.
And this is something that Italked about in the episode where
I talked about how being the nicheslash brand as toxic as fuck.
Still believe that.
And I think maybe the parasocialrelationship aspect kind of ties it all
together because like if we are mining ourlife for content, or if we are, you know,
(32:13):
the brand, the niche, and really creatingsomething around our personalities all the
time forever, are we creating a parasocialrelationship on purpose with our audience?
Or do we want to create a pair of socialrelationship so then we can sell to them?
I mean, sure.
People want to subscribe tocertain things like that.
(32:34):
People want to, you know, pay andlike be part of a community because
they really identify with somebodythat they are, that they found online.
And that's totally fine.
I mean, like the worldis moving towards that.
That's what the creatoreconomy is all about.
But these are just like questions and likea whole other layer to personal branding
(32:55):
or you know, social media that I thinkwe aren't having a conversation around.
So I've got some Parasocial relationshipquestions to wrap up this episode.
And I've got it from the point ofview of a, um, consumers, so somebody
who follows and is really invested insomebody else that they see online.
(33:20):
And then also from the person sharing.
The first three questions I've gotare from the consumer, so somebody who
is invested in somebody else and theyfeel like an emotional connection.
You feel like really inspired bythis person and all of that stuff.
Three questions are, where do youfeel like you want to know more
about someone else's life andalmost expect them to share more?
(33:41):
Why?
What is that area tryingto tell you about?
Like maybe how you wanna show up.
Number two, what does theparasocial relationship mean?
How does this person impact you orinspire you and maybe exploring that
can give you an insight into what yourmessage is or you know, areas to work
on in your life for personal developmentor professional development, self-love,
(34:05):
self-awareness, and all that stuff.
And number three, if they are a black,indigenous person of color, queer,
disabled, creator, or personal brand,are you supporting them with your money?
If possible.
Or by sharing their work so then theycan continue to create the content
that has given you a sense of comfort.
(34:25):
Or are you consumingfor free all the time?
Because that's also not fair, especiallybecause like as a black indigenous person
of color, as a queer person, as a disabledcreator or brand, um, I'm not disabled,
but like people who belong in these likeidentities or have these identities,
the internet, social media, uh, thesealgorithms not made for people like that.
(34:47):
So are you supporting them in differentways so that they can continue creating
content that like comforts you, inspiresyou, motivates you, and all that stuff,
because that's also really important.
Creators, brands, personal brands,thought leaders, small business owners
are not just here for your consumption.
Like, again, reminder, thereare people behind the screen.
So those are the threequestions for the consumers.
(35:08):
This is one question from theperspective of the person who is sharing.
So if you want to have a personalbrand, if you want to be a creator, if
you wanna be a thought leader, smallbusiness owner, anything like that.
If you want to start like sharingyour message and sharing content,
where can you create boundariesaround all of this stuff?
And how do you continue to show upas yourself without letting others
(35:31):
dictate who you are and what you want?
/ feel comfortable with sharing online.
Personally, if you are like, oh my gosh.
Well, that's a question Idon't have an answer to.
Uh, I do have an answer.
Um, for me, I think it's getting reallyclear on not just your boundaries.
So like boundaries of like whatyou are comfortable sharing, what
(35:52):
you aren't comfortable sharing,but also your expectations.
Like if somebody were to come intoyour community, and it's a little bit
hard for social media, but like, let'ssay you have a, different community.
If somebody were to come into yourcommunity , what are their expectations?
What are like the guidelines forinteracting in this community?
What are, what do you expect?
(36:12):
And this is not like, oh, I expectyou to pay $5 to subscribe to me.
No.
It's like, okay, we don'ttalk in a violent way.
We don't discriminate.
Things like that.
I think having that in placeis really, really important.
And then also being really clearon what your brand message and core
values are, not just as a brand or apersona, but like as a, as a human,
(36:39):
like what are your core values?
What is the messagethat you want to share?
And I think that's really important tohave before going out and trying to like,
you know, have other people dictate whoyou are and what you want, such as feel
comfortable with sharing online or likethe type of content that you put out.
I think having all of that stuffin the beginning is really, really
(37:00):
important to create like a healthierboundary around social media and
like this whole idea of content andconsumption and all of that stuff.
And also I think a healthier boundaryaround like the parasocial relationship
that will probably form and manifestitself even if you don't want to, because
(37:21):
it's just how currently social mediaand the internet and our consumption,
culture and society works right now.
Unfortunately, fortunately, who knows?
I mean, fortunately because youcan like make money doing this,
unfortunately, because people feellike they're entitled to your life.
Uh, it's both.
And so yeah, that's, that's kindof what I wanted to talk about with
(37:46):
this parasocial relationship thing.
I am curious as to whatyou all are thinking.
Uh, send me a message on Instagram@CassandraTLe and let's, let's talk
about it because now that I've gotthe language to put around this,
I feel like I'm like invested.
I wanna knowmore.
All right y'all.
That's all I've got for this episode.
I will see you in the next one.
(38:08):
Stay fierce, fam.
If you're hearing this message, that meansyou made it to the end of this episode.
Yay.
Thanks for listening.
If you enjoyed this episode and thoughtto yourself, whoa, it to me, I'd love
if you could share this with others.
Post about it on social mediaand or leave a rating and review.
Don't forget to subscribeto, wanna hang out with me in
(38:30):
other areas of the internet.
You can follow me on Instagram@CassandraTLe for brand message and
content marketing tips and resources.
Check out my business@TheQuirkyPineappleStudio.
Thanks again and seeyou in the next episode.
Stay Fierce Fam.
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