September 24, 2023 • 48 mins
What would life look like if you completely ‘hit refresh’ and decided to move abroad, especially after 30? ✈️
In Season 2, Episode 2 of I’m lost, so what? Podcast, Cepee Tabibian joins to share what hitting refresh can look like, especially if you want to move abroad!
As someone who also decided to move abroad and build a life outside of their home country, this conversation touches on all the tangible/tactical things to consider, as well as the more emotional, spiritual, and mental aspects that people might not consider before they decide to make a move abroad!
In this episode, Cepee shares about:
- What moving abroad after 30 years old looks like (and how it’s different than moving abroad in your 20s)
- Choosing your own identity as an immigrant
- How to move abroad
- And some of the cultural differences when it comes to dating abroad (love this topic, considering I am in an intercultural relationship)
Cepee Tabibian (she/her), Founder, She Hit Refresh
At the age of 35, Cepee Tabibian upended her entire life by selling her belongings and moving to Europe—and since then, has never looked back. Now, she teaches other women how to do it too, at any age, through her company She Hit Refresh: a global community of over 10,000 women age 30+ who want to move abroad.
She prides herself on providing resources, support, and inspiration—from online courses to a fast-growing blog to annual retreats and more—in order to teach women how to move abroad so that they can confidently make their move sooner rather than never.
She has even turned her overseas expertise into the digital book “I’m Outta Here! An American’s Ultimate Visa Guide to Living in Europe”—which was featured in Forbes (spoiler alert: it’s easier than you think).
Links referenced in the episode:
- Move Abroad after 30 Masterclass - https://www.shehitrefreshacademy.com/9h310?r_done=1
- Cepee’s Book, “I’m Outta Here! An American’s Ultimate Visa Guide to Living in Europe” - https://shehitrefresh.com/move-to-europe-book/
- Watch Cepee’s TEDx Talk “What immigrants can teach us about identity” - https://youtu.be/NK_fHYNw_do?si=fta0m9BsMTnvVrn9
- S1E4 “RIP to the me I learned to love” - https://imlostsowhat.podbean.com/e/rip-to-the-me-i-learned-to-love/
Connect with Cepee Tabibian elsewhere:
- Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/shehitrefresh/
- TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@shehitrefresh
- YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCMgydoTS7V3pY1V0WI5S6Bw
- Facebook group! (for WOMEN age 30+:) https://www.facebook.com/groups/shehitrefresh/
- Website: www.shehitrefresh.com
Connect with Cassandra and her business elsewhere:
- Cassandra’s Personal Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/cassandratle/
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
I think it's a constant evolutionand growth and like bursting through
these self imposed ceilings too.
Right.
I have to sometimes have pep talks withmyself of like when I'm in fear of growth,
like why don't I want to do that and whydon't I think I'm either worthy of that
or capable of and keeping myself small.
Welcome back to the I'm lost.
So What podcast?
(00:21):
This is your host, Cassandra Le.
And I am super excited to haveCepee Tabibian, founder of She
Hit Refresh on the podcast today.
Let me share a little bit about Cepee.
Cepee at the age of 35 upendedher entire life by selling her
belongings and moving to Europe.
And since then has never looked back.
Now she teaches other women how todo it too at any age through her
(00:43):
company, she hit refresh a globalcommunity of over 10, 000 women,
age 30 plus who want to move abroad.
Cepee prides herself on providingresources, support, and inspiration
from online courses to a fast growingblog to annual retreats and more in
order to teach women how to move abroadso that they can confidently make
their move sooner rather than never.
(01:04):
She has even turned her overseas expertiseinto the digital book: I'm out of here.
And American's Ultimate VisaGuide to Living in Europe,
which was featured in Forbes.
And spoiler alert, it iseasier than you think.
So in this conversation, Cepee and I diveinto what it's like to move abroad after
30, specifically her experience, becauseI moved abroad at 20 plus, and what it's
(01:25):
like to also choose your own identityas an immigrant, how to move abroad.
And we even got into some of the.
Fun things about what moving abroadis kind of like we got into dating and
pet peeves and cultural funny stories.
And I'm just excited foryou all to listen to this.
This episode is definitely foryou if you are thinking about
(01:46):
moving abroad in the future.
All right, let's dive into it.
Hello.
Hello, everyone.
I'm Cassandra Le, and you'relistening to I'm Lost, So What?
The podcast exploring betweenbelonging and carving your own path.
For all the peeps out there who kindof know what you're doing, but still
question what the fuck is going on.
Yeah, I'm with you.
(02:07):
Hi, Cepee.
How are you?
Hi, Cassandra.
I'm doing great.
How are you?
I'm good.
I am really excited for this conversation.
So today, we've got lotsof things to talk about.
We're diving into moving abroad after30, choosing our identity as immigrants.
And then the question I think I get often,and I'm pretty sure you also get often,
(02:30):
which is how to actually move abroad.
So before we get into all ofthat, I like to start off each
interview with this question.
What does being lost mean to you?
And can you describe thefeeling of being lost?
This is a big question and probably myanswer would be different depending on
the day but I was thinking about thisquestion earlier today and just thinking
(02:55):
of when I've been lost and what came upfor me is just those times in my life
when I just felt like maybe I didn't knowmyself well enough or maybe I wasn't even
looking back that's probably what it wasbut in the moment that's not what it was.
That I didn't realize that, but I justwas at a point in my life where maybe
I didn't know what I was good at.
I didn't know what my strengths were.
(03:16):
I didn't really, my interestswere kind of all over the place.
I didn't have a purpose and justkind of feeling aimless, right?
And not having clarity on what Iwas aiming for, not having that
greater purpose to my actions.
So to answer that second part,I love this question of like,
what did it feel like being lost?
I think it feels a bit like lowself esteem, I would say, right?
(03:38):
Because you know, we build self esteemby participating in esteemable acts.
And when, at least for me, when Ifeel a little bit aimless or those
times in my life when I did, I wasn'tengaging in things that was building
that characteristic in myself, right?
Because I was feeling bad about myself.
I didn't really know myself.
And that can feel really lonely.
(03:59):
Like you're the only one, right?
Like everyone around mehas it all figured out.
And I'm the only one that as timegoes by, I still don't know, right?
I don't know what I want to do.
I don't know what I'm doing.
I don't know where I'm going.
So for me, that's, I thinkwhat lost, uh, means to me.
Super interesting.
So something that you shared just nowwas, you know, when you don't participate,
(04:20):
and I know that you are also a communitybuilder and I think you are extroverted.
It could be, I could be wrong.
Maybe if anybody knows thatbe in real life, I would say-
I would say ambivert causeI can be introverted too.
Okay.
So ambivert.
Um, so something that I actuallysaw on TikTok was, I think I was
watching a random video and itcame up of our love languages.
(04:44):
And sometimes when you are feelinglow about yourself, whatever your
love language is, you actuallydo the opposite to yourself.
And so, for example, my lovelanguage is quality time.
And this TikTok videobasically caught me out.
They were like, Oh, you know, whenyou're feeling low about yourself,
when you feel bad or like when youfeel ashamed or when you feel like not
(05:05):
worthy, what is your love language?
And they were saying, Oh, if your lovelanguage is quality time, you actually
self isolate when other people are tryingto, you know, be with you, cheer you up.
But then because you feel so badabout yourself, you self isolate.
So you're removing like.
The act of love for yourself.
But anyways, that was kind of what I wasthinking about when you were saying that,
(05:27):
especially when we get into the next partof the conversation about like moving
abroad, because that is super exciting.
Also very isolating, lots of things.
So let's just get into it.
So you moved abroad when you were 35.
So what is the difference actuallybetween moving abroad after 30 compared
to moving abroad in your twenties?
Because I moved abroad right aftercollege when I was like early twenties.
(05:50):
Well, yes.
I mean, they're both exciting times,but I think, you know, if we look at
it, they're different stages, right?
And it's not just in your thirties, youknow, I like to say thirties and beyond.
And I think in your twenties, aswe all know, typically we have
less responsibilities, right?
Coming out of college.
Most of us, some of us, we haveless social pressures to be like
figuring the things out or wehave time to figure things out.
(06:12):
Right.
So it gives us morefreedom and flexibility.
There's not those social pressuresthat are telling us, you know, like
you need to know it all right now.
But there's something about that number30, like as we approach it internally
and externally, that's when thesocial pressures start to creep up.
That's also when naturally we havemore tethers in our lives, right?
We might, we may have debt,college debt, may have a mortgage.
(06:35):
We may be, you know, having relationshipsthat we're tending to, and that's
not just romantic, but maybe that'schildren that people are having.
Maybe that's, you know,parents getting older.
So maybe also careersor careers are growing.
So they're just things that are goingon in our lives that are different than
when we're in our twenties that can makeit feel a lot harder to move abroad.
And I like to use that word feelbecause it doesn't have to be harder,
(06:55):
but it can make it feel like that.
So, and I think the other thing too,is when you're in twenties, I kind of.
You touched on this, you're, youknow, when you're in your twenties,
you're encouraged to explore.
And once you get into your thirties,that's when people start having
those expectations that youneed to have it all figured out.
If you don't have it yet, you needto start figuring out, you know, when
are you going to buy your first home?
When are you getting married?
When are you having kids?
And so when you deviate from thatpath, it just, you know, you get
(07:18):
a lot of questions from peopleand, uh, like that, are you crazy?
Like you can't do that.
What are you thinking?
So I think that's the big differenceof kind of doing it in your
twenties and doing it after 30.
I, I totally agree.
So since I've been in Spain since22, 23, though, I've basically spent
most of my twenties here and nowspending, I guess, with plans to spend
(07:41):
most of my thirties here, I suppose.
I've noticed that difference wherewhen I first came here, everybody
was like, Oh, that's so cool.
Like gap year, like, Oh my gosh, you'regoing to be traveling everywhere.
You're going to meet so many people.
You're just gonna have so much fun.
And then as I started gettingcloser to 30 people were like, so
when are you going to come back?
Like, when are you goingto do the adult thing?
(08:01):
Like, when are you goingto get responsibilities?
And I'm like, at that point Ihad already really like started
moving and living here permanently.
So my responsibilities are here.
I live my life here.
So I think I had like twoscenarios where one, I was
confused because it was like, why?
Are you asking that?
(08:21):
And then two pissed off becauseI was like, you all don't know.
Like, it's very, I don't want to sayrude because they don't know, but it's
almost like overlooking my experienceof, yeah, I've built a life here now.
And it's almost like you just skip overit and it can only see what you have
imagined somebody approaching 30 to live.
(08:42):
So I don't know if that likehappened to you as well.
Definitely.
Well, it did a little bit becauseyou know, I moved to Spain at
35, but I tried many times inmy twenties to make it happen.
So I definitely had that graceperiod of my parents were like, Oh,
she just getting out of her system.
She's just traveling.
Then she'll come back andgrow up and get the job.
And then as I approached my thirties,I was still trying to bounce
(09:03):
back and forth around the world.
And that's when you know, the, thepressures came up, but I would say in
my thirties too, when I moved abroad,you know, people knew my personality, so
they were encouraging of it, but therewas still, I think a little bit of that,
like, when are you going to X, Y, Z,which comes with, you know, getting older,
but we're all on our own timeline too.
So, you know, I just want to, Ithink, well, we may talk about that
(09:24):
a little bit too, but you don't haveto have it all figured out in your
thirties, but I think, oh, thank you.
And that is, yeah, youhave the freedom to.
continue to figure it out.
But I think that weight comes withentering, you know, that next decade.
And then if you're trying to moveabroad, a lot of people aren't on
board with that idea, because theyfeel like it's probably not the
direction you should be going in life.
(09:44):
So that actually takes me to my secondquestion, then what is the biggest
challenge of moving abroad after 30?
Because like, yeah, we justtalked about, you know, the
societal pressure and the weight.
Is there anything else,whether it's like pressure?
Social?
Mental?
Something?
Yes.
You're, you're hitting on it.
It's the mindset.
I think that's the biggest challengeI see of people feeling like they're
(10:04):
too old and it's too late, right?
Like I should have donethis when I was younger.
Now I can't because offill in the excuse there.
And I've heard them all.
I think there's that fear of the unknown.
So also when you get into yourthirties, you have a certain rhythm.
Usually, you know, you'vebeen doing life for a while.
Your life is quitepredictable in many ways.
And so leaving that, what you'vebuilt and what you're doing, and
(10:28):
sometimes you have a good life.
Leaving that is, can be scary, right?
Because it's unknown.
You don't know what's,what's around the corner.
Is it better?
Are you going to mess up allthe things you work so hard for?
What will people think?
Of course, the career piece.
What about my career?
Do I have to throw that away?
And I think another challenge is justlike breaking through those myths that
people have that you have to be rich,you have to marry a foreigner, you got
(10:49):
to get transferred with a job, and yougot to teach English to move abroad.
Like they just think those are the ways.
There's so many others.
So it's really the mindset Ithink is the biggest challenge.
Oh, interesting.
I do think a lot of people thinkthat it's either, um, you got to work
visa, 90 day fiance or whatever it is-
hahaahahahah!
Uh, which they've asked.
Um, I think when I Like when I was firsthere and then people found out that I
(11:12):
moved here and I have my visa in Spain,thanks to my partner who is Spanish, uh,
shout out to Mario, um, people were like-
Hi Mario!
Yeah, they were like,how did you meet him?
Like, can you tell me where to go?
And I was like, um, what do you mean?
And they're like, I'vebeen to like all the bars.
I've been to like, you know, allthe clubs I've been to all the club,
(11:32):
like, clubs as in discotheques.
And then they said I've been to all theother clubs like regular just hobby clubs.
They're like I can't find a good one.
Can you tell me your strategy?
And I'm like girl, I didn't,I don't have a strategy.
It kind of just happened.
Um, I don't know where to meet them.
And they're like, oh, butlike, does he have friends?
And I'm like, okay, we're not doing this.
(11:53):
I hear you because it is anin if you do find a partner.
Yes.
And I think for a lot of us in theback of our minds, we're like, once
you move abroad and you're like,how do I, how can I stay here?
Well, maybe I'll just meetsomeone and that'll help.
I mean, that was always like my plan B.
It never happened.
I had to figure it out on my own.
But it would have made it easierif I would have done something.
But I just, that's just tosay like, it is not easy.
(12:14):
So don't, don't makethat your plan A ladies.
Yeah, um, I would sayit's a whole other thing.
Like the visa process is one thing.
Dating somebody outside of your cultureand language, um, is a whole other thing.
I don't know which one is easier.
Or not, if we're considering likeSpanish bureaucracy, um, okay.
But I do have like acounter question to that.
(12:35):
So we just talked about the challenge.
What are the opportunities orthe biggest opportunities to
move abroad after you're 30?
Yes.
Oh my God.
That's one of my favorites.
So I think the biggest opportunity isjust giving yourself that blank slate.
People, this is your chanceto start from scratch.
I mean, so many of us are on thispath that was kind of laid before us.
We're on this hamster wheel and we'renot even exactly sure how we got on.
(12:57):
We don't want to be on it.
And moving abroad is your, youropportunity to like jettison all of those
things, the things that aren't workingfor you, the things you don't want to
be doing, the things you want to change.
And moving abroad lets you startover and start to build life on
your terms, how you want to do it.
And I really think itgives you a second chance.
So I think that is thebiggest opportunity.
(13:19):
Interesting.
So question about that.
Do you think like you have to move abroad?
I know that we were talking aboutmoving abroad and all that stuff to
get like a second chance, but do youthink you have to move abroad to do it?
Or could you move withinlike your own country?
I'm just thinking like my middlesister, my family lives in Virginia
where I was born and raised.
And she just decided to pick up andmove all the way over to San Diego.
(13:41):
And that has given her almostlike a blank slate- ish.
Do you think it's like the same if youmove within your country or better- I
don't want to say better, but I guesssomething different to move abroad?
Yeah, that's an interesting question.
I would say it's definitely not thesame, but it definitely is an opportunity
to give yourself that blank slate.
(14:02):
I mean, the blank slate isreally just disconnecting from
everything, you know, right.
So, and I think we're goingto talk about identity, but
it gives you a fresh identity.
So you can do that in your owncountry, in your own state, right.
Moving somewhere where you don'tknow anybody, the culture may be
a little bit different, but it'snot going to be like that jumping
into, you know, a cold plunge pool.
Like it is when you move abroad, wherethere could be a different language, a
(14:24):
totally foreign culture and, uh, norms.
And so that really is going to shakethings up and allow you to also shed
who you, who you thought you werebecause you're having to navigate
so many new things on your own.
So I think it can be done in your homecountry, but there's nothing like moving
to somewhere completely different.
Totally agree.
I did move also within the U.
(14:45):
S I don't know if you did eitherand it definitely shakes things up.
It does, I think, give us a little bitmore opportunity because like once you
move abroad, like you're really, um,like just floating, just floating there.
At least when I moved around in the US,it was like, okay, they speak English.
(15:06):
I kind of more or less understandsocial norms and like what I'm
expected to do and all of this stuff.
But when I came here to Spain,um, I didn't really know how to
actually even order, like foodcorrectly, or I don't know.
It sounds like very simple, but it wasthings like going to the grocery store
that I didn't really even know how to do.
I mean, you know, you know how to doit, but like, how do you find things?
(15:28):
Yeah.
How do you navigate that in a, you know,a supermarket that you've never been to
in the sense, like everything's different.
So totally.
I mean, I, I.
I mean, I only moved in the U.
S.
Really from Houston to Austin.
So two different cities in the samestate, but they're so different that
I did change a lot in, in Austin.
But again, that justis not the same, right.
Jolt that you get when you're like dumpedcompletely somewhere that you're like,
(15:52):
I don't even know what's going on here.
Okay.
So this takes me into the next.
part of the conversation, which ischoosing our own identity as immigrants
or as people who decide to move abroad.
What does moving abroad allow us tolike, well, not just what, how does
moving abroad allow us to lean intodifferent versions of ourselves?
(16:13):
Cause you just said it.
I mean, you changed a lot from movingfrom Houston to Austin, but how did
you change from Austin to Spain?
Yes.
Also, another question I love this reallylingers around the talk that I gave
at TEDx about, you know, that changethat we have as as immigrants, right.
So I think moving abroad just givesyou that sense of freedom and that
(16:35):
freedom to choose your own identity.
So we talked about kind of, you know,identities that are formed, you know,
from where we are and where we're living.
But I think, you know, you when you moveabroad, you're freed of the expectations
of society, of your community, of yourfamily and that is so liberating and
so that gives you a lot of freedom fromthe identity you were boxed into again
(16:56):
like we just kind of end up on thislike path to success everyone says is
what we need to do um when sometimesthat's not even really what we want.
And so that identity that was forced uponyou really just kind of can fade away
when you move somewhere new where youdon't know anybody and you're not tied
to who you thought you were and who otherpeople thought you were too so I think
(17:17):
That is really important because it letsyou again, gives you that blank slate and
just linking this back to my TED talk.
I think this is really important toremember when we're talking about
immigrants and immigrants come in alldifferent shapes and sizes, right?
Like I consider myself a veryprivileged immigrant who moved
to Spain because I wanted to.
It's a bit different from, right?
So from our parents, I don't knowexactly your parent situation, but
(17:37):
my parents moved to the US, youknow, wasn't really out of choice.
So that's a different situation, butwe're all immigrants, not in the same
way, but we're all under that umbrella.
And I think so often immigrants arepainted as scrappy people who are
able to turn something out of nothing.
And that is true.
You know, I definitelythink that we are very.
(17:59):
Scrappy people, but I thinkwe're so much more than that.
I think immigrants really are visionariesand creators and they're able to
see themselves differently abroad.
And I think that's what reallyhelps us when we're talking about
moving abroad and, and, you know,changing identities, that's what
you get when you, when you move.
Yeah, I love that.
And definitely true because sometimesI think about like my immigration
(18:21):
story compared to my parents.
And finally, the fact that you mentionedit in your TED talk, I mentioned in
my own too, where I was talking aboutmy parents immigration story was more
from, I guess, not what is the word Idon't remember the word it is, but it's
because they were forced to they had toafter the Vietnam War and their immigrant
(18:41):
story basically was out of necessityand thanks to their necessity of doing
that it gave me a leg up and privilegeto now choose to do it for myself.
I don't know.
This is probably a conversation Ishould have with my parents about
like, how they feel about that.
Cause I think they were like,what we like started from zero
(19:02):
and built everything in the U.
S for you to live a comfortable life.
Like we couldn't, whatare you doing leaving?
But that is a conversationmaybe for another day.
But, um, I am curious to know how haveyou reinvented yourself because we were
just talking about like having thatblank slate to kind of choose who you
are or choose what your identity is.
(19:22):
How have you reinvented youridentity living abroad or
even from Houston to Austin?
Yes.
Well, I think So much of that,you know, just, you know, that
opportunity of the blank slate.
I think I really leaned into that.
I, I felt that sense of freedom.
Like I could be anybody I want tobe because nobody knows me here.
Not in the sense that I was going tobecome completely somebody different,
(19:43):
but I could do things without fearingthat judgment of other people thinking
like, Oh my God, what is she doing?
Who does she think she is?
Like, she's not someone to do thatbecause really, again, we really box
ourselves into who we think we are.
So I think you know, how I reinventedmyself when I moved to Spain is
well, one, when I got here, I had noidea of like what I was going to do.
I came here and taught English andthat's not what I wanted to do long
(20:06):
term, but I didn't have clarity on that.
And I was 35 at the time.
I came here to Spainas a serial job hopper.
So it's not like I had this like amazingcareer that I was tapping into over here.
I really had to figure out whatwas next and, and kind of what
I wanted to be when I grew up.
Right.
I started just leaning into all ofthese interests that I had, all of these
(20:28):
new interests, ideas that were comingto me that I was like, what is that?
Like, I would never do that,but I keep getting that idea.
So let me try.
And so I was just open.
I think part of moving abroad too,gave me the time and the freedom
to delve into these interests.
Cause I didn't have all thestressors that I had in the U.
S I wasn't working at that same capacity.
And so I became a blogger.
(20:51):
I was never a writer.
So I became a blogger.
I became a community builder.
I became a content creator.
I became a leader.
And I think most importantly, I becamea founder of my business and a business
that actually, you know, profoundlyimpacts people in their lives.
And so it was a real 180 for me when Imoved abroad and started leaning into that
freedom of just playing with my identityand trying on different things that I
(21:14):
would have never had there to do back
Do you think that you, mainlybecause I just literally made
a post about this on Instagram.
So I'm curious, do you think we reinventourselves or it's more like you always
had those inklings and like interests,but because of time, job capacity,
(21:38):
energy, all of these things, maybewe're just stuck in our same patterns
in- you know, when you're living in thesame place that you've always lived,
those kind of just held you back.
And you've always had like this fire.
I call it a fire.
I've seen you in person as well.
So whoever has seen, definitely lotsof energy and so much fun, but do
(22:01):
you think that was always there?
Or like you kind of reinvented yourselfand then it kind of came with it.
Yeah.
That makes sense.
Yeah, no, it totally makes sense.
And it's a hard one to answerbecause I think, I don't, I think
I definitely always had the fire.
I mean, I remember being in my teenswanting to try different things, but
maybe not doing them or maybe dabblingand then being like, Oh, this is silly.
(22:23):
Like, yeah, I think I'd wantedto start a ballet class at 20.
And then I was like, Oh,I'm too old to do that.
So things like that, you know, Ithink I tried to do, but I was really,
really preoccupied with the judgmentaround me of what people would think.
And something was unlocked when Imoved abroad, probably that freedom
that I was talking about of beinguntethered and that really just like
it was unlocked and went in full force.
(22:44):
I was just like, Oh yeah, let's try this.
Let's do that.
And just really trying thingswithout overthinking them.
And so probably the fire was alwaysthere, but it was accelerated by removing
myself from kind of my comfort zone.
Yeah.
Ooh, I love that.
So how, or I guess.
Next question is, um, what identitieshave you let go of since moving
(23:04):
abroad and what was the process like?
Cause I talked about this in seasonone about, I had an episode called
rest in peace to the me I learned tolove, which I think that's episode four
if you all want to go listen to it.
I talk about like this identitythat I held onto for so long.
And then I had like, And not only did thisidentity come with me because I held on
to it, it also brought me all of theselike amazing things that I have now.
(23:28):
So I had a lot of guilt and griefaround letting this specific identity
go and then moving into somethingelse because this identity that I
was holding was just like hurting me.
And it was basically the identity oflike being a workaholic or somebody who
like prided themselves so much in havinga small business and like just doing
everything for their small business.
(23:49):
And I realized like, Oh yeah, itbuilt like the thing that I have now.
And it provides for me, likepays for rent and utilities.
Mario has come and likestarted working with me.
That's awesome.
But then I was burnt out.
And then I like I boxed myself in.
So have you had any any identitiesthat you had to let go of?
And what was that like?
(24:10):
That's an interesting question.
Um, when I think about it, I'm not surethat I let go of any identities, but
I think my identity evolved, right?
Because I think I just moved awayfrom who maybe I thought I was.
It wasn't a let go.
It was just, yeah, it feels likemore of an evolution seems like
the right word, or maybe like anexpansion of into who I needed to be.
(24:34):
So I definitely evolved in ways Icould touch on a few, but you know, I
never saw myself as a creative person.
I never saw myself as a writer.
I never saw myself as a leader.
I would.
shy away from anything that kindof put me in those positions, uh,
before, and really in my journeyhere in Spain, I have evolved to
become like a hyper creative person.
(24:55):
I would consider myself a writer.
I mean, I'm a published author now.
I am a leader, you know, a founder andcommunity builder, like I mentioned.
So I think I've just evolvedin building my confidence.
It's going back to, you know,participating in esteemable acts,
just, you know, doing things thatallowed me to see what my abilities
were, gave me a lot of clarity inmy strengths and belief in myself.
(25:18):
And that kind of led to beinga really, uh, a risk taker.
Maybe I was more risk aversein certain areas of my life.
I've always been a bit open to risk,but in certain areas, especially
in a professional sense and puttingmyself out there in front of people.
That wasn't something thatI would always do willingly.
And now I'm like taking risksleft and right, uh, trying to
fail fast and learn from that.
(25:40):
And just understanding thatthat is part of the journey.
And that's going to get me towhere I want to get quicker.
So not really worrying about whatpeople think or the consequences.
So really, I think it's been more of anevolution of letting go of somebody who
maybe wasn't so confident and reallybuilding that confidence, um, by doing.
And how was it likeletting that person go?
(26:00):
Was it like painful?
And for me, I was like, Oh my gosh,this is like grief of over myself.
Like, Oh, this is terrible.
Or was it more like, okay, see ya.
Right.
It was probably anxiety inducingand exhilarating at the same time.
And those are probably like thesame feeling, but I like two
different ends of the spectrum.
Right?
But.
(26:20):
I mean, there were times, many timesand still I'm like, what am I doing?
Why am I doing this?
Why am I putting myself through this?
I don't want to do this.
And on the other end, just beingexhilarated by like, what that's like
the growth I'm going to go through,like who I'm going to become after that.
And so it's a bit of like putting yourego aside of being like, you know,
doesn't matter what people think,like, let's just do this anyways.
(26:41):
And getting comfortablewith being uncomfortable.
It's uncomfortable, right?
Growth is uncomfortable.
And I think this evolution of identityis, uh, Is, is growing into something new.
So I think what helps though is vocalizingwhat you're doing to other people.
Like, I mean, like vocalizing whatyou're doing, like saying I'm a blogger
when I don't feel like a bloggerand I've only published one blog.
(27:03):
So like, you know, not hiding, beingvulnerable and showing people the growth
that you're going through, I thinkcan help you, I don't know, evolve,
uh, and have it not feel so awkward.
Yeah, no, I love that.
And also what you said too aboutlike, put it in your ego aside.
I feel like a lot of things that getcaught into our identity, like they're, I
guess, two opposite ends of the spectrum,like feeling super empowered by your
(27:26):
identity and all of this stuff and likedefining like who you are and really
being grounded in your values and yourselfand then getting boxed in your identity
because then ego kind of starts takingup too much space and basically keeping
you small, even though your identity canmake you so big, if that makes sense.
(27:50):
Yeah.
It's like we reach one ceiling.
We've, we've made one breakthroughand then we reach another
ceiling within our identities.
Right?
It's a, I think it's a constant evolutionand growth and like bursting through
these self imposed ceilings too.
Right?
I have to sometimes have pep talkswith myself of like, when I'm.
In fear of growth, like,why don't I want to do that?
And why don't I think I'm eitherworthy of that or capable of and
(28:13):
keeping myself small, like you say?
Yeah, I love that.
Okay.
So let's get into the good stuff.
I mean, this wholeconversation was awesome.
Um, but I feel like there might be somepeople who are listening who are like,
okay, so how do I actually move abroad?
So there are lots of different ways,like Cepee mentioned to move abroad.
Um, what is one thing someone cando to get them one step closer to
(28:33):
actually making that move abroad?
Well, this may not seem like theobvious, but I think this is super
important and that I think is findinga community of like-minded people.
So I, and I say that because wherever youare, especially if you are in the US and
you aren't thinking of moving abroad andyou start telling your friends and family,
a lot of times they're not gonna get.
(28:54):
They're not going to get it becausethey probably haven't done it.
It's not something they'veever thought of doing.
And it's going to sound crazy to them.
And they're going to project thosefears and what they think on you.
And you're going to startdoubting your decision.
Maybe I am crazy.
Maybe the, maybe I am too old.
Maybe this isn't a good idea.
So when you, um, surround yourselfwith people who get you and a
like minded community, it reallyempowers you to navigate this path
(29:16):
because there's going to be a lotof obstacles you're going to face.
So I think that helps you, uh, feel goodabout your decision and idea and know that
it's not crazy and know that you're ableto do it and we'll help you stick to it if
it's something that you really want to do.
I love that.
Also, you do have a community, don't you?
I do.
So for any women over 30,if you're looking for your
people, join my Facebook group.
(29:37):
It's free.
It's called she hit refresh.
So you can find thatand, and join us there.
Yes.
I will include that inthe show notes, of course.
So when we thinking about moving abroad,what is the one thing most people
probably don't take into account?
And I always like to almost divide thisinto like all of the emotional stuff,
because, you know, when everybody'sthinking about moving abroad, they're
(29:58):
thinking more like logistical,tangible visas, paperwork, booking
flights, where am I going to live?
Blah, blah, blah, but once you'reactually abroad and then or approaching
your departure date to have to saygoodbye, the emotional, spiritual,
mental stuff, I think, kicks in.
So can you share from emotional, mental,spiritual side and then also the physical,
(30:21):
logical, tangible side of things?
Yes, you have so manygreat questions, Cassandra.
I love this.
So, this is great.
I'm so glad you brought this up, theemotional side, the mental side, because
I talk about this a lot, and I like toshine a light on this, because I don't
think it's talked about enough, and thatis that you're going to have doubts.
You may know for sure that you wantto move abroad, and you've known that
for years, but you're still goingto have doubts about your decision
(30:43):
before, during, and after your move.
Like it's totally normal.
Like I, so you're saying,yes, you get it, right?
I knew I wanted to move abroad since Iwas 21 and I finally made it happen at 35.
And still the day of my flight, Ihad those butterflies in my stomach.
I'm like, what am I doing?
Is this the right thing?
And then even after I was living mybest life in Spain, there are still
(31:05):
moments where I'm like, what am I doing?
Is it my, is this the right thing?
Do I need to go back?
So they're, they're fleeting now.
They don't stick around, but stillthose ideas still come into my mind.
So, uh, you get it.
Yes, I got it.
Um, and totally true.
I don't think it ever goes away.
There are definitely like what youwere saying, like the fleeting thoughts
that used to be a lot stronger.
(31:25):
I think when I first arrived and Iwas kind of like fumbling through
carving a space for myself here.
And now that I am more fluentin the language, I am more
immersed in the culture.
I understand more aboutlike how this country works.
I don't think about it so often.
Although there are times whereI'm like, should I go back?
And then I'm like, nah.
(31:47):
Right.
I don't think I'll ever go backeither, but those thoughts creep up.
They do.
They do creep up.
Um, and then they're like, Oh no.
So what about the physical,logical, tangible stuff?
Yes.
Oh my gosh.
I love this.
I have two, one, two here.
And one of them is more of a fun one.
And one's more practical.
So the one, the fun one is, Hey,dating, dating is different.
(32:07):
So let's just get that out there.
Um, and I think some people and myselfincluded, you know, we come to Europe and
we talked a little bit about, you know,meeting someone, but we can have that like
rom com fairytale in our mind, Emily inParis kind of thing, which you can, you
know, it can feel like a rom com at times.
But also it's just important to beaware that dating is different abroad,
(32:29):
especially if you're coming from the U.
S.
These are, this is a different culture,norms, language, wherever you're going.
Dating culture is different.
And so you just need to give yourselfa learning curve to learn about that.
And also that dating is datingno matter where you are.
You're still going to have to kissa lot of frogs to find your prince.
It's not like if you're moving toEurope, every European guy is perfect
and blows American guys out of the water.
(32:50):
I've got a shuffle through them to find ormen or women, whatever you're looking for.
Um, so I just say, be open to theexperience and have fun with it.
Uh, but on a more practical level, I thinkit's important to understand learning
a language takes longer than you think.
I am been here eight years and I'm stilllearning, you know, I'm not fluent.
I wish I was, I'm good, goodat it, but I'm still not me the
(33:12):
way I am in English and Spanish.
Maybe that will never happen.
I don't know, but it's.
Feeling like a lifelong journey.
Oh, yeah, I was okay.
So I have two follow up questions to that.
Um, first one about dating.
Do you have any funny culturalmoments on any dates that you feel
comfortable sharing because I can share?
(33:33):
Nothing.
Oh my gosh.
I have so many, but nothingis coming to mind right now.
I'm blanking out.
So I think you have to go first.
Okay.
I'll go first.
Okay.
So when I first came here, I said that Ididn't want to date because I was like,
I'm here for my European adventure.
I don't have time to date,but then I got curious.
So I got tinder and I think everybodythat I talked to on tinder, I don't know.
(33:55):
This is like a cultural mishap,but this is more annoying, I think,
because a lot of people know whenyou're from the U S and you come here,
the things that they told me, likeall of them were like, well, that's
a girl from the U S doing over here.
You're so far away.
Number one, they always said thatnumber two was, Oh, let's do an
exchange, like I'll teach youEnglish or I'll teach you Spanish.
(34:17):
And, um, you can teach me English, ofcourse, insinuating lots of other things.
Those were like the two things thatI always, always got on Tinder.
And then when I started datingMario, we've been together now
for like eight years, but when hewanted to tell me that he liked me.
The verb in Spanish is gustar,but it's a reflexive verb.
(34:37):
This is about to get into like aSpanish grammar lesson right now.
Um, so the verb in Spanish isgustar and it is reflexive.
So you have to say me gusta,te gusta, all of those things.
But when you're trying to say, I likeyou, it is, Oh, how do you say it?
I don't even know how to say it correctly.
It's like-
Me gusta?
Me gustas?
I think so.
So technically when it's translated,it's a, it means you are liked by
(35:02):
me, which is the actual translation.
But if you're just doing a rawtranslation, it's you like me.
So he was trying to say, I like you.
And he kept saying, no, you like me.
And I was like, this pompousass, like cocky person.
What does he know?
And he was like, yeah, I know.
I know that you like me and I you don't.
(35:23):
He's like, yes, I do.
You like me?
And I was like, no, you don't know.
And he's like, I do know you like me.
And then we figured it outthat he was trying to say it.
Something else there.
There are lots more than that.
It wouldn't always sticks out to me.
That is hilarious.
Well, see, that's kind of rom commy.
So you can have your funlittle moments like that.
(35:46):
They exist.
I love that.
Nothing came to mind.
So we'll just-
okay.
Then we'll just stick with mine.
Um, okay.
And then the otherquestion I had- oh, yes.
It's about language.
So something I'm always curiousabout, because I am also good enough
in Spanish, but definitely there'sstill like, like you were saying, I
am not like fully myself just yet.
(36:08):
So I'm curious to know, doyou think your personality
changes in English and Spanish?
Like, do you think youridentity as Cepee is different?
Like, are you Cepee, Spanish Cepee?
And then Cepee, English speaking Cepee?
Yeah, that's another great question.
Yeah, it changes.
And for me, it changes becauseI don't feel as confident in
Spanish as I do in English.
(36:29):
So one, I can't make jokes.
Like it's so hard by thetime I thought of the joke,
everyone's moved on conversation.
So it's really hard to do like small talkand like little fun jabs here and there.
You can't be jokey jokey.
And I just, I, yeah, like I said,I don't have the confidence.
So even Um, the way I like my bodylanguage changes to, I think in Spanish
(36:50):
of someone who's not as confident.
And so that is a huge goal of mineis like getting to that next level
to where I just feel like myself.
Maybe I can't express myself exactlyI want to, but at least I can feel
like myself in many ways in Spanish.
So, um, we'll see if, uh, if my identitiesfeel different when I get to that level.
Okay, we'll have a, we'll haveanother conversation when that comes.
(37:12):
What about you?
I'm curious to hear about you.
Do you feel like your identity changes?
I think it does.
I don't think I'm as funny in Spanish.
I think I am in English.
I think I'm like thebees knees in English.
You are.
In Spanish I'm more like.
I'm like a subtle funny, which is fine.
Like I'll accept it, you know, but Idon't think I get to express myself
(37:33):
as fully as I want to in Spanish, eventhough like now I'm able to like debate
and have arguments and I can kind oflike interject myself into conversations,
which I was really afraid to before.
I don't get so lost anymore.
Like I can still makejokes here and there.
But sometimes if they talk aboutsuper cultural things or maybe when
(37:53):
they get like really into figurativeSpanish speaking type expressions.
Oh yeah, that just goes way over my head.
I'm like, I like it because I knowlike my Spanish is good enough and
people forget that I'm not native.
That's because like my accent apparentlyis very good or, you know, like the
way I talk sounds like a native.
(38:14):
So then they get into their rhythmand then they start saying things
and I'm like, wait, not yet.
Not there.
I'm not there yet, but thank you.
It's a compliment.
I know.
I'm like, thank you forseeing me in that light.
But, um, can you explainthat one more time?
So it's almost there.
I am planning on taking Spanish classes.
Eventually just to like improve andnot be at like a standstill level.
(38:37):
Cause I feel like I've reached like thispeak of, Oh yeah, you're fluent enough
and people can understand you enough thatyou don't necessarily need to improve.
But I really want to get morelike vocabulary and like, I
don't know, just sound funnier.
Yeah, just be become more of ourselves.
I mean, I'm going totake classes again, too.
I feel like I've actually gonebackwards because I speak my Spanish.
My boyfriend is Spanish also, but Idon't speak- he speaks perfect English.
(39:00):
So I'm not taking advantage of thein house tutor as much as I should.
And a lot of my life is inEnglish because of the work I do.
Yeah.
So I need to make a more consciouseffort after being here eight years to
get back on it because you do get to apoint where you're like, okay, I'm good.
Like I can navigate, I can beindependent here, but then you reach a
plateau and you realize that I can do.
(39:22):
Yeah.
Continuing to the moving abroad stuff.
Do you have a pet peeve when someonesays I'm going to move abroad?
Oh my gosh.
Yes.
Okay, tell it, tell it to the people.
Well, not so much when someonesays, I'm going to move abroad.
But when I bring up this, the topic ofmoving abroad, or someone brings it up,
and then someone has to interject andsay, and I know this is going to be a
divisive thing that I'm saying here.
(39:44):
People are like, well, you need tomake sure that, you know, you don't
get stuck in your foreign bubbleand you need to integrate and you
need to XYZ, which we were justtalking about learning the language.
But I'm actually, my stance on like, Youhave to integrate and, you know, be a part
of the local culture has really changed,um, over the past few years, I think,
you know, let people live how they wantto, like, of course, I'm all for, you
(40:05):
will have such a much richer experienceif you learn the local language, have
friends who are locals, but in reality,that's not so easy, especially if
you're moving abroad in your thirties,forties, fifties and above, like good
luck trying to get into a local circle.
It is hard if you don't have a partner.
Um, also, you know, learning a language,as we mentioned, isn't so easy.
And we both come fromimmigrant backgrounds.
(40:27):
I have immigrants in my family inthe US who still don't speak English
well, who have a lot of friendsthat are from the country they're
from, and that's totally okay.
So I don't want to be judging peopleon how they want to live abroad.
But I know other people have differentviews of like, don't come to a foreign
country to speak your own languageand hang out with your own people.
So that's, that's why my pet peeve.
Ooh, I'm curious to see what peoplewill say after they listen to this.
(40:50):
Cause I have my own stance.
I am like both.
And like, I do agree.
You definitely get like a richerexperience when you like immerse yourself.
in local culture and like the language.
And then also at the same time, if youjust like leave all your people, which
is something I think I ended up doing, Ilike teetered all the way to being like,
Oh, I'm not going to hang out with anybodyfrom the U S like, I'm going to only
hang out with like local Spanish people.
(41:12):
But then you kind of like isolate yourselfalso again, because it's like, Oh gosh,
I don't have anybody that gets me.
They like kind of get me and they get meenough as they can, but when I'm talking
about like the cultural differences,cultural mishaps that you kind of just
go through when you're living abroad,they're going to be like, Oh, I'm sorry.
Um, but somebody else who gets meand is like a foreigner like me,
(41:34):
they're going to be like, Oh yeah.
And we can totally justlike rip off about it.
So yes, I get it.
And okay.
So before we wrap up, I have twoquestions, two final questions.
The first one is, do you have anuanced conversation you think
that we're not having enough of?
Oh, Cassandra's bringingthe questions here.
Um, yeah, I mean, I think, I thinkwe're having the conversation,
(41:54):
but definitely not enough.
I think it's that, you know,living outside of the box is okay.
Living on that unconventional path,taking the unconventional path is okay.
And just as valid as people who aregoing on the path of like, you know,
climbing the career ladder, gettingmarried, having kids, all of that
stuff that a lot of our friends aredoing back home, or at least mine are.
Um, I think it's important to talk about,like, there's no one way to do life.
(42:17):
There's no one measure of success.
And really the point of life,at least in my opinion, is
that it's to be experienced.
So it's okay to start over again at 35,at 40, to not know what you're doing, to
still be exploring and figuring it outwhat you want to do when you grow up.
So I think that's an importantconversation, especially kind of in
the line of work that I do for women.
Women over 30 and women who have deviatedfrom that normal path, who maybe don't
(42:41):
want to get married, who don't want tohave kids and don't want to, you know,
have those six, seven figure salariesand, and have to work 60 hours a week.
Like it's okay to do something different.
I love that.
And I am all for having more ofthose conversations, considering
that I am one of those people.
And you're right.
There's no way, no oneright way to live life.
(43:02):
And I think my quality of life has.
exponentially improvedsince living in Spain.
And I always feel like, youknow, when those thoughts come
back of, do I go back home?
Do I go back to the U S every time I goback and visit, I'm kind of like, Oh yeah.
Quality of life.
I mean, maybe I would have more business.
(43:22):
Maybe I would be making waymore money, but I have so much
like time, space, freedom here.
And I've created such, I get a great,like, environment for myself to
thrive in my own way that I don'tknow if I would be able to replicate
what I have here back there anymore.
And yeah, it just doesn't make sense.
So, yeah, thank you for sharing that.
All right.
(43:42):
So before we wrap up, I love toend every podcast episode with
a journaling prompt, exploratoryquestion, exercise, whatever it is.
So do you have a journaling prompt?
Exercise exploratory question forall the people who are listening.
It could be related to anything thatwe talked about today, moving abroad,
choosing our identities, moving rightafter 30, or you can pull something
(44:05):
else out and be like, no, I'm goingto, you can journal about this.
Well, I, this is for peoplewho want to move abroad.
This is actually a prompt that Igive, uh, to people in my masterclass.
And this is, you know, sit down, getyour paper and journal about what
does a move abroad look like to you?
And I'll give some context to that,because when people say they want to move
(44:27):
abroad, That looks different to everybody.
Some people want to be moving toPortugal because that's where all
the Americans are moving to andit's easy and it's nice there.
Some people want to move to Mexico, right?
And live in Mexico City.
And some people want to go to Thailand.
Some people want to volunteer.
Some people want to retire.
Sitting by the beach and someonea hospital in wrestling city.
(44:47):
So what does that mean when yousay you want to move abroad?
What are you doing with your time?
How are you making money?
What are you doing on a daily basis?
Is dating important to you?
Is that something you want to do?
Do you want to be making friends?
Do you want to be, you know,isolated somewhere on your own?
So really just sit down and thinkabout really in the context of
if you could build that life onyour terms, that ideal life, that
(45:09):
life that you would love to live.
What does that look like to you?
So, that's my journal prompt there.
I love that.
Yeah, and I just would encouragepeople, like, dream big.
This is your chance.
Like, put it to paperand get clear on that.
Mmm.
I love that.
Honestly, I would say really dream bigbecause whatever you imagine and what
I was just saying before too, aboutlike trying to replicate like a life in
(45:31):
Spain to the U S or the life in the US to Spain, I think bigger than that.
Cause it will look very, very different.
So thank you for this journaling prompt.
I will also journal on it.
I mean, you know, why not, eventhough I'm already here, but, um-
Right.
But it's, it's ever evolving.
I think our like vision of what lifeon our terms looks like, you know, I
feel like maybe you feel like that too.
(45:52):
Like, I feel like I've reacheda place where I probably
couldn't even have imagined.
I didn't imagine eight years ago.
I've like exceeded that through what Ibelieved, but there's still more that
I can do and shape and work towards.
So, yeah.
Yeah.
You could still, you couldstill journal on that.
Oh yeah, I'll be journaling on it.
Don't worry.
Um, so that ends this conversation.
(46:12):
Zefi, thank you so, so much forjoining and for sharing all of your
tips and just like your experience andstory before we completely close off.
Is there anything that you areexcited about in the upcoming months?
Yes.
Well, first I wanted to thankyou so much for having me on.
This has been really a unique experiencein terms of podcasts I've been on.
Like I really, I love these questions.
(46:35):
You have just been an incredible job.
So thank you for, you know, creating thespace to talk about things that I think a
lot of other people aren't talking about.
In terms of things that areexciting that are coming up.
Yes.
I had just mentioned my masterclass.
So I have a move abroad after 30masterclass that is starting in September.
Yes.
And so it's for all thewomen over 30 out there.
(46:56):
It's a live four day training, um, whereI, you know, help you realize that a
move abroad on your terms as possible.
And we start to create aplan to get you started.
So it's just $37.
So it would be silly not to join me,but that's coming up in September.
And yeah, that's whatI'm most excited for.
Love it.
Okay.
So I will link that in the show notesfor anybody who is interested and
(47:18):
Cepee, where can people find you?
Yes.
If you'd like more information, definitelythe website, https://shehitrefresh.com/
is the best place to start out, butyou can also follow us @shehitrefresh
on Instagram and Tik TOK.
YouTube, there's tons of resources.
And again, if you're a womanover 30, join me in my Facebook
group at She Hit Refresh.
Love that.
(47:39):
Okay.
All of those links will be in theshow notes and for anybody who
is listening and you are itching,thinking about moving abroad, come
join us over on the dark side.
I mean, it's not really dark in Spain.
It's pretty sunny, very,and warm right now.
Um, but we would love to haveyou abroad and to just share
(48:00):
this experience with you all.
So thank you everyone and stay fierce fam.
If you're hearing this message, that meansyou made it to the end of this episode.
Yay!
Thanks for listening.
If you enjoyed this episode andthought to yourself, Whoa, it me.
I'd love if you could share this withothers, post about it on social media,
(48:21):
and or leave a rating and review.
Don't forget to subscribe too.
Want to hang out with me inother areas of the internet?
You can follow me on Instagram@CassandraTLe for brand message
and content marketing tips andresources, check out my business
@TheQuirkyPineappleStudio.
Thanks again and seeyou in the next episode.
Stay fierce fam!
I think it's a constant evolutionand growth and like bursting through
these self imposed ceilings too.
Right.
I have to sometimes have pep talks withmyself of like when I'm in fear of growth,
like why don't I want to do that and whydon't I think I'm either worthy of that
or capable of and keeping myself small.
Welcome back to the I'm lost.
So What podcast?
(00:21):
This is your host, Cassandra Le.
And I am super excited to haveCepee Tabibian, founder of She
Hit Refresh on the podcast today.
Let me share a little bit about Cepee.
Cepee at the age of 35 upendedher entire life by selling her
belongings and moving to Europe.
And since then has never looked back.
Now she teaches other women how todo it too at any age through her
(00:43):
company, she hit refresh a globalcommunity of over 10, 000 women,
age 30 plus who want to move abroad.
Cepee prides herself on providingresources, support, and inspiration
from online courses to a fast growingblog to annual retreats and more in
order to teach women how to move abroadso that they can confidently make
their move sooner rather than never.
(01:04):
She has even turned her overseas expertiseinto the digital book: I'm out of here.
And American's Ultimate VisaGuide to Living in Europe,
which was featured in Forbes.
And spoiler alert, it iseasier than you think.
So in this conversation, Cepee and I diveinto what it's like to move abroad after
30, specifically her experience, becauseI moved abroad at 20 plus, and what it's
(01:25):
like to also choose your own identityas an immigrant, how to move abroad.
And we even got into some of the.
Fun things about what moving abroadis kind of like we got into dating and
pet peeves and cultural funny stories.
And I'm just excited foryou all to listen to this.
This episode is definitely foryou if you are thinking about
(01:46):
moving abroad in the future.
All right, let's dive into it.
Hello.
Hello, everyone.
I'm Cassandra Le, and you'relistening to I'm Lost, So What?
The podcast exploring betweenbelonging and carving your own path.
For all the peeps out there who kindof know what you're doing, but still
question what the fuck is going on.
Yeah, I'm with you.
(02:07):
Hi, Cepee.
How are you?
Hi, Cassandra.
I'm doing great.
How are you?
I'm good.
I am really excited for this conversation.
So today, we've got lotsof things to talk about.
We're diving into moving abroad after30, choosing our identity as immigrants.
And then the question I think I get often,and I'm pretty sure you also get often,
(02:30):
which is how to actually move abroad.
So before we get into all ofthat, I like to start off each
interview with this question.
What does being lost mean to you?
And can you describe thefeeling of being lost?
This is a big question and probably myanswer would be different depending on
the day but I was thinking about thisquestion earlier today and just thinking
(02:55):
of when I've been lost and what came upfor me is just those times in my life
when I just felt like maybe I didn't knowmyself well enough or maybe I wasn't even
looking back that's probably what it wasbut in the moment that's not what it was.
That I didn't realize that, but I justwas at a point in my life where maybe
I didn't know what I was good at.
I didn't know what my strengths were.
(03:16):
I didn't really, my interestswere kind of all over the place.
I didn't have a purpose and justkind of feeling aimless, right?
And not having clarity on what Iwas aiming for, not having that
greater purpose to my actions.
So to answer that second part,I love this question of like,
what did it feel like being lost?
I think it feels a bit like lowself esteem, I would say, right?
(03:38):
Because you know, we build self esteemby participating in esteemable acts.
And when, at least for me, when Ifeel a little bit aimless or those
times in my life when I did, I wasn'tengaging in things that was building
that characteristic in myself, right?
Because I was feeling bad about myself.
I didn't really know myself.
And that can feel really lonely.
(03:59):
Like you're the only one, right?
Like everyone around mehas it all figured out.
And I'm the only one that as timegoes by, I still don't know, right?
I don't know what I want to do.
I don't know what I'm doing.
I don't know where I'm going.
So for me, that's, I thinkwhat lost, uh, means to me.
Super interesting.
So something that you shared just nowwas, you know, when you don't participate,
(04:20):
and I know that you are also a communitybuilder and I think you are extroverted.
It could be, I could be wrong.
Maybe if anybody knows thatbe in real life, I would say-
I would say ambivert causeI can be introverted too.
Okay.
So ambivert.
Um, so something that I actuallysaw on TikTok was, I think I was
watching a random video and itcame up of our love languages.
(04:44):
And sometimes when you are feelinglow about yourself, whatever your
love language is, you actuallydo the opposite to yourself.
And so, for example, my lovelanguage is quality time.
And this TikTok videobasically caught me out.
They were like, Oh, you know, whenyou're feeling low about yourself,
when you feel bad or like when youfeel ashamed or when you feel like not
(05:05):
worthy, what is your love language?
And they were saying, Oh, if your lovelanguage is quality time, you actually
self isolate when other people are tryingto, you know, be with you, cheer you up.
But then because you feel so badabout yourself, you self isolate.
So you're removing like.
The act of love for yourself.
But anyways, that was kind of what I wasthinking about when you were saying that,
(05:27):
especially when we get into the next partof the conversation about like moving
abroad, because that is super exciting.
Also very isolating, lots of things.
So let's just get into it.
So you moved abroad when you were 35.
So what is the difference actuallybetween moving abroad after 30 compared
to moving abroad in your twenties?
Because I moved abroad right aftercollege when I was like early twenties.
(05:50):
Well, yes.
I mean, they're both exciting times,but I think, you know, if we look at
it, they're different stages, right?
And it's not just in your thirties, youknow, I like to say thirties and beyond.
And I think in your twenties, aswe all know, typically we have
less responsibilities, right?
Coming out of college.
Most of us, some of us, we haveless social pressures to be like
figuring the things out or wehave time to figure things out.
(06:12):
Right.
So it gives us morefreedom and flexibility.
There's not those social pressuresthat are telling us, you know, like
you need to know it all right now.
But there's something about that number30, like as we approach it internally
and externally, that's when thesocial pressures start to creep up.
That's also when naturally we havemore tethers in our lives, right?
We might, we may have debt,college debt, may have a mortgage.
(06:35):
We may be, you know, having relationshipsthat we're tending to, and that's
not just romantic, but maybe that'schildren that people are having.
Maybe that's, you know,parents getting older.
So maybe also careersor careers are growing.
So they're just things that are goingon in our lives that are different than
when we're in our twenties that can makeit feel a lot harder to move abroad.
And I like to use that word feelbecause it doesn't have to be harder,
(06:55):
but it can make it feel like that.
So, and I think the other thing too,is when you're in twenties, I kind of.
You touched on this, you're, youknow, when you're in your twenties,
you're encouraged to explore.
And once you get into your thirties,that's when people start having
those expectations that youneed to have it all figured out.
If you don't have it yet, you needto start figuring out, you know, when
are you going to buy your first home?
When are you getting married?
When are you having kids?
And so when you deviate from thatpath, it just, you know, you get
(07:18):
a lot of questions from peopleand, uh, like that, are you crazy?
Like you can't do that.
What are you thinking?
So I think that's the big differenceof kind of doing it in your
twenties and doing it after 30.
I, I totally agree.
So since I've been in Spain since22, 23, though, I've basically spent
most of my twenties here and nowspending, I guess, with plans to spend
(07:41):
most of my thirties here, I suppose.
I've noticed that difference wherewhen I first came here, everybody
was like, Oh, that's so cool.
Like gap year, like, Oh my gosh, you'regoing to be traveling everywhere.
You're going to meet so many people.
You're just gonna have so much fun.
And then as I started gettingcloser to 30 people were like, so
when are you going to come back?
Like, when are you goingto do the adult thing?
(08:01):
Like, when are you goingto get responsibilities?
And I'm like, at that point Ihad already really like started
moving and living here permanently.
So my responsibilities are here.
I live my life here.
So I think I had like twoscenarios where one, I was
confused because it was like, why?
Are you asking that?
(08:21):
And then two pissed off becauseI was like, you all don't know.
Like, it's very, I don't want to sayrude because they don't know, but it's
almost like overlooking my experienceof, yeah, I've built a life here now.
And it's almost like you just skip overit and it can only see what you have
imagined somebody approaching 30 to live.
(08:42):
So I don't know if that likehappened to you as well.
Definitely.
Well, it did a little bit becauseyou know, I moved to Spain at
35, but I tried many times inmy twenties to make it happen.
So I definitely had that graceperiod of my parents were like, Oh,
she just getting out of her system.
She's just traveling.
Then she'll come back andgrow up and get the job.
And then as I approached my thirties,I was still trying to bounce
(09:03):
back and forth around the world.
And that's when you know, the, thepressures came up, but I would say in
my thirties too, when I moved abroad,you know, people knew my personality, so
they were encouraging of it, but therewas still, I think a little bit of that,
like, when are you going to X, Y, Z,which comes with, you know, getting older,
but we're all on our own timeline too.
So, you know, I just want to, Ithink, well, we may talk about that
(09:24):
a little bit too, but you don't haveto have it all figured out in your
thirties, but I think, oh, thank you.
And that is, yeah, youhave the freedom to.
continue to figure it out.
But I think that weight comes withentering, you know, that next decade.
And then if you're trying to moveabroad, a lot of people aren't on
board with that idea, because theyfeel like it's probably not the
direction you should be going in life.
(09:44):
So that actually takes me to my secondquestion, then what is the biggest
challenge of moving abroad after 30?
Because like, yeah, we justtalked about, you know, the
societal pressure and the weight.
Is there anything else,whether it's like pressure?
Social?
Mental?
Something?
Yes.
You're, you're hitting on it.
It's the mindset.
I think that's the biggest challengeI see of people feeling like they're
(10:04):
too old and it's too late, right?
Like I should have donethis when I was younger.
Now I can't because offill in the excuse there.
And I've heard them all.
I think there's that fear of the unknown.
So also when you get into yourthirties, you have a certain rhythm.
Usually, you know, you'vebeen doing life for a while.
Your life is quitepredictable in many ways.
And so leaving that, what you'vebuilt and what you're doing, and
(10:28):
sometimes you have a good life.
Leaving that is, can be scary, right?
Because it's unknown.
You don't know what's,what's around the corner.
Is it better?
Are you going to mess up allthe things you work so hard for?
What will people think?
Of course, the career piece.
What about my career?
Do I have to throw that away?
And I think another challenge is justlike breaking through those myths that
people have that you have to be rich,you have to marry a foreigner, you got
(10:49):
to get transferred with a job, and yougot to teach English to move abroad.
Like they just think those are the ways.
There's so many others.
So it's really the mindset Ithink is the biggest challenge.
Oh, interesting.
I do think a lot of people thinkthat it's either, um, you got to work
visa, 90 day fiance or whatever it is-
hahaahahahah!
Uh, which they've asked.
Um, I think when I Like when I was firsthere and then people found out that I
(11:12):
moved here and I have my visa in Spain,thanks to my partner who is Spanish, uh,
shout out to Mario, um, people were like-
Hi Mario!
Yeah, they were like,how did you meet him?
Like, can you tell me where to go?
And I was like, um, what do you mean?
And they're like, I'vebeen to like all the bars.
I've been to like, you know, allthe clubs I've been to all the club,
(11:32):
like, clubs as in discotheques.
And then they said I've been to all theother clubs like regular just hobby clubs.
They're like I can't find a good one.
Can you tell me your strategy?
And I'm like girl, I didn't,I don't have a strategy.
It kind of just happened.
Um, I don't know where to meet them.
And they're like, oh, butlike, does he have friends?
And I'm like, okay, we're not doing this.
(11:53):
I hear you because it is anin if you do find a partner.
Yes.
And I think for a lot of us in theback of our minds, we're like, once
you move abroad and you're like,how do I, how can I stay here?
Well, maybe I'll just meetsomeone and that'll help.
I mean, that was always like my plan B.
It never happened.
I had to figure it out on my own.
But it would have made it easierif I would have done something.
But I just, that's just tosay like, it is not easy.
(12:14):
So don't, don't makethat your plan A ladies.
Yeah, um, I would sayit's a whole other thing.
Like the visa process is one thing.
Dating somebody outside of your cultureand language, um, is a whole other thing.
I don't know which one is easier.
Or not, if we're considering likeSpanish bureaucracy, um, okay.
But I do have like acounter question to that.
(12:35):
So we just talked about the challenge.
What are the opportunities orthe biggest opportunities to
move abroad after you're 30?
Yes.
Oh my God.
That's one of my favorites.
So I think the biggest opportunity isjust giving yourself that blank slate.
People, this is your chanceto start from scratch.
I mean, so many of us are on thispath that was kind of laid before us.
We're on this hamster wheel and we'renot even exactly sure how we got on.
(12:57):
We don't want to be on it.
And moving abroad is your, youropportunity to like jettison all of those
things, the things that aren't workingfor you, the things you don't want to
be doing, the things you want to change.
And moving abroad lets you startover and start to build life on
your terms, how you want to do it.
And I really think itgives you a second chance.
So I think that is thebiggest opportunity.
(13:19):
Interesting.
So question about that.
Do you think like you have to move abroad?
I know that we were talking aboutmoving abroad and all that stuff to
get like a second chance, but do youthink you have to move abroad to do it?
Or could you move withinlike your own country?
I'm just thinking like my middlesister, my family lives in Virginia
where I was born and raised.
And she just decided to pick up andmove all the way over to San Diego.
(13:41):
And that has given her almostlike a blank slate- ish.
Do you think it's like the same if youmove within your country or better- I
don't want to say better, but I guesssomething different to move abroad?
Yeah, that's an interesting question.
I would say it's definitely not thesame, but it definitely is an opportunity
to give yourself that blank slate.
(14:02):
I mean, the blank slate isreally just disconnecting from
everything, you know, right.
So, and I think we're goingto talk about identity, but
it gives you a fresh identity.
So you can do that in your owncountry, in your own state, right.
Moving somewhere where you don'tknow anybody, the culture may be
a little bit different, but it'snot going to be like that jumping
into, you know, a cold plunge pool.
Like it is when you move abroad, wherethere could be a different language, a
(14:24):
totally foreign culture and, uh, norms.
And so that really is going to shakethings up and allow you to also shed
who you, who you thought you werebecause you're having to navigate
so many new things on your own.
So I think it can be done in your homecountry, but there's nothing like moving
to somewhere completely different.
Totally agree.
I did move also within the U.
(14:45):
S I don't know if you did eitherand it definitely shakes things up.
It does, I think, give us a little bitmore opportunity because like once you
move abroad, like you're really, um,like just floating, just floating there.
At least when I moved around in the US,it was like, okay, they speak English.
(15:06):
I kind of more or less understandsocial norms and like what I'm
expected to do and all of this stuff.
But when I came here to Spain,um, I didn't really know how to
actually even order, like foodcorrectly, or I don't know.
It sounds like very simple, but it wasthings like going to the grocery store
that I didn't really even know how to do.
I mean, you know, you know how to doit, but like, how do you find things?
(15:28):
Yeah.
How do you navigate that in a, you know,a supermarket that you've never been to
in the sense, like everything's different.
So totally.
I mean, I, I.
I mean, I only moved in the U.
S.
Really from Houston to Austin.
So two different cities in the samestate, but they're so different that
I did change a lot in, in Austin.
But again, that justis not the same, right.
Jolt that you get when you're like dumpedcompletely somewhere that you're like,
(15:52):
I don't even know what's going on here.
Okay.
So this takes me into the next.
part of the conversation, which ischoosing our own identity as immigrants
or as people who decide to move abroad.
What does moving abroad allow us tolike, well, not just what, how does
moving abroad allow us to lean intodifferent versions of ourselves?
(16:13):
Cause you just said it.
I mean, you changed a lot from movingfrom Houston to Austin, but how did
you change from Austin to Spain?
Yes.
Also, another question I love this reallylingers around the talk that I gave
at TEDx about, you know, that changethat we have as as immigrants, right.
So I think moving abroad just givesyou that sense of freedom and that
(16:35):
freedom to choose your own identity.
So we talked about kind of, you know,identities that are formed, you know,
from where we are and where we're living.
But I think, you know, you when you moveabroad, you're freed of the expectations
of society, of your community, of yourfamily and that is so liberating and
so that gives you a lot of freedom fromthe identity you were boxed into again
(16:56):
like we just kind of end up on thislike path to success everyone says is
what we need to do um when sometimesthat's not even really what we want.
And so that identity that was forced uponyou really just kind of can fade away
when you move somewhere new where youdon't know anybody and you're not tied
to who you thought you were and who otherpeople thought you were too so I think
(17:17):
That is really important because it letsyou again, gives you that blank slate and
just linking this back to my TED talk.
I think this is really important toremember when we're talking about
immigrants and immigrants come in alldifferent shapes and sizes, right?
Like I consider myself a veryprivileged immigrant who moved
to Spain because I wanted to.
It's a bit different from, right?
So from our parents, I don't knowexactly your parent situation, but
(17:37):
my parents moved to the US, youknow, wasn't really out of choice.
So that's a different situation, butwe're all immigrants, not in the same
way, but we're all under that umbrella.
And I think so often immigrants arepainted as scrappy people who are
able to turn something out of nothing.
And that is true.
You know, I definitelythink that we are very.
(17:59):
Scrappy people, but I thinkwe're so much more than that.
I think immigrants really are visionariesand creators and they're able to
see themselves differently abroad.
And I think that's what reallyhelps us when we're talking about
moving abroad and, and, you know,changing identities, that's what
you get when you, when you move.
Yeah, I love that.
And definitely true because sometimesI think about like my immigration
(18:21):
story compared to my parents.
And finally, the fact that you mentionedit in your TED talk, I mentioned in
my own too, where I was talking aboutmy parents immigration story was more
from, I guess, not what is the word Idon't remember the word it is, but it's
because they were forced to they had toafter the Vietnam War and their immigrant
(18:41):
story basically was out of necessityand thanks to their necessity of doing
that it gave me a leg up and privilegeto now choose to do it for myself.
I don't know.
This is probably a conversation Ishould have with my parents about
like, how they feel about that.
Cause I think they were like,what we like started from zero
(19:02):
and built everything in the U.
S for you to live a comfortable life.
Like we couldn't, whatare you doing leaving?
But that is a conversationmaybe for another day.
But, um, I am curious to know how haveyou reinvented yourself because we were
just talking about like having thatblank slate to kind of choose who you
are or choose what your identity is.
(19:22):
How have you reinvented youridentity living abroad or
even from Houston to Austin?
Yes.
Well, I think So much of that,you know, just, you know, that
opportunity of the blank slate.
I think I really leaned into that.
I, I felt that sense of freedom.
Like I could be anybody I want tobe because nobody knows me here.
Not in the sense that I was going tobecome completely somebody different,
(19:43):
but I could do things without fearingthat judgment of other people thinking
like, Oh my God, what is she doing?
Who does she think she is?
Like, she's not someone to do thatbecause really, again, we really box
ourselves into who we think we are.
So I think you know, how I reinventedmyself when I moved to Spain is
well, one, when I got here, I had noidea of like what I was going to do.
I came here and taught English andthat's not what I wanted to do long
(20:06):
term, but I didn't have clarity on that.
And I was 35 at the time.
I came here to Spainas a serial job hopper.
So it's not like I had this like amazingcareer that I was tapping into over here.
I really had to figure out whatwas next and, and kind of what
I wanted to be when I grew up.
Right.
I started just leaning into all ofthese interests that I had, all of these
(20:28):
new interests, ideas that were comingto me that I was like, what is that?
Like, I would never do that,but I keep getting that idea.
So let me try.
And so I was just open.
I think part of moving abroad too,gave me the time and the freedom
to delve into these interests.
Cause I didn't have all thestressors that I had in the U.
S I wasn't working at that same capacity.
And so I became a blogger.
(20:51):
I was never a writer.
So I became a blogger.
I became a community builder.
I became a content creator.
I became a leader.
And I think most importantly, I becamea founder of my business and a business
that actually, you know, profoundlyimpacts people in their lives.
And so it was a real 180 for me when Imoved abroad and started leaning into that
freedom of just playing with my identityand trying on different things that I
(21:14):
would have never had there to do back
Do you think that you, mainlybecause I just literally made
a post about this on Instagram.
So I'm curious, do you think we reinventourselves or it's more like you always
had those inklings and like interests,but because of time, job capacity,
(21:38):
energy, all of these things, maybewe're just stuck in our same patterns
in- you know, when you're living in thesame place that you've always lived,
those kind of just held you back.
And you've always had like this fire.
I call it a fire.
I've seen you in person as well.
So whoever has seen, definitely lotsof energy and so much fun, but do
(22:01):
you think that was always there?
Or like you kind of reinvented yourselfand then it kind of came with it.
Yeah.
That makes sense.
Yeah, no, it totally makes sense.
And it's a hard one to answerbecause I think, I don't, I think
I definitely always had the fire.
I mean, I remember being in my teenswanting to try different things, but
maybe not doing them or maybe dabblingand then being like, Oh, this is silly.
(22:23):
Like, yeah, I think I'd wantedto start a ballet class at 20.
And then I was like, Oh,I'm too old to do that.
So things like that, you know, Ithink I tried to do, but I was really,
really preoccupied with the judgmentaround me of what people would think.
And something was unlocked when Imoved abroad, probably that freedom
that I was talking about of beinguntethered and that really just like
it was unlocked and went in full force.
(22:44):
I was just like, Oh yeah, let's try this.
Let's do that.
And just really trying thingswithout overthinking them.
And so probably the fire was alwaysthere, but it was accelerated by removing
myself from kind of my comfort zone.
Yeah.
Ooh, I love that.
So how, or I guess.
Next question is, um, what identitieshave you let go of since moving
(23:04):
abroad and what was the process like?
Cause I talked about this in seasonone about, I had an episode called
rest in peace to the me I learned tolove, which I think that's episode four
if you all want to go listen to it.
I talk about like this identitythat I held onto for so long.
And then I had like, And not only did thisidentity come with me because I held on
to it, it also brought me all of theselike amazing things that I have now.
(23:28):
So I had a lot of guilt and griefaround letting this specific identity
go and then moving into somethingelse because this identity that I
was holding was just like hurting me.
And it was basically the identity oflike being a workaholic or somebody who
like prided themselves so much in havinga small business and like just doing
everything for their small business.
(23:49):
And I realized like, Oh yeah, itbuilt like the thing that I have now.
And it provides for me, likepays for rent and utilities.
Mario has come and likestarted working with me.
That's awesome.
But then I was burnt out.
And then I like I boxed myself in.
So have you had any any identitiesthat you had to let go of?
And what was that like?
(24:10):
That's an interesting question.
Um, when I think about it, I'm not surethat I let go of any identities, but
I think my identity evolved, right?
Because I think I just moved awayfrom who maybe I thought I was.
It wasn't a let go.
It was just, yeah, it feels likemore of an evolution seems like
the right word, or maybe like anexpansion of into who I needed to be.
(24:34):
So I definitely evolved in ways Icould touch on a few, but you know, I
never saw myself as a creative person.
I never saw myself as a writer.
I never saw myself as a leader.
I would.
shy away from anything that kindof put me in those positions, uh,
before, and really in my journeyhere in Spain, I have evolved to
become like a hyper creative person.
(24:55):
I would consider myself a writer.
I mean, I'm a published author now.
I am a leader, you know, a founder andcommunity builder, like I mentioned.
So I think I've just evolvedin building my confidence.
It's going back to, you know,participating in esteemable acts,
just, you know, doing things thatallowed me to see what my abilities
were, gave me a lot of clarity inmy strengths and belief in myself.
(25:18):
And that kind of led to beinga really, uh, a risk taker.
Maybe I was more risk aversein certain areas of my life.
I've always been a bit open to risk,but in certain areas, especially
in a professional sense and puttingmyself out there in front of people.
That wasn't something thatI would always do willingly.
And now I'm like taking risksleft and right, uh, trying to
fail fast and learn from that.
(25:40):
And just understanding thatthat is part of the journey.
And that's going to get me towhere I want to get quicker.
So not really worrying about whatpeople think or the consequences.
So really, I think it's been more of anevolution of letting go of somebody who
maybe wasn't so confident and reallybuilding that confidence, um, by doing.
And how was it likeletting that person go?
(26:00):
Was it like painful?
And for me, I was like, Oh my gosh,this is like grief of over myself.
Like, Oh, this is terrible.
Or was it more like, okay, see ya.
Right.
It was probably anxiety inducingand exhilarating at the same time.
And those are probably like thesame feeling, but I like two
different ends of the spectrum.
Right?
But.
(26:20):
I mean, there were times, many timesand still I'm like, what am I doing?
Why am I doing this?
Why am I putting myself through this?
I don't want to do this.
And on the other end, just beingexhilarated by like, what that's like
the growth I'm going to go through,like who I'm going to become after that.
And so it's a bit of like putting yourego aside of being like, you know,
doesn't matter what people think,like, let's just do this anyways.
(26:41):
And getting comfortablewith being uncomfortable.
It's uncomfortable, right?
Growth is uncomfortable.
And I think this evolution of identityis, uh, Is, is growing into something new.
So I think what helps though is vocalizingwhat you're doing to other people.
Like, I mean, like vocalizing whatyou're doing, like saying I'm a blogger
when I don't feel like a bloggerand I've only published one blog.
(27:03):
So like, you know, not hiding, beingvulnerable and showing people the growth
that you're going through, I thinkcan help you, I don't know, evolve,
uh, and have it not feel so awkward.
Yeah, no, I love that.
And also what you said too aboutlike, put it in your ego aside.
I feel like a lot of things that getcaught into our identity, like they're, I
guess, two opposite ends of the spectrum,like feeling super empowered by your
(27:26):
identity and all of this stuff and likedefining like who you are and really
being grounded in your values and yourselfand then getting boxed in your identity
because then ego kind of starts takingup too much space and basically keeping
you small, even though your identity canmake you so big, if that makes sense.
(27:50):
Yeah.
It's like we reach one ceiling.
We've, we've made one breakthroughand then we reach another
ceiling within our identities.
Right?
It's a, I think it's a constant evolutionand growth and like bursting through
these self imposed ceilings too.
Right?
I have to sometimes have pep talkswith myself of like, when I'm.
In fear of growth, like,why don't I want to do that?
And why don't I think I'm eitherworthy of that or capable of and
(28:13):
keeping myself small, like you say?
Yeah, I love that.
Okay.
So let's get into the good stuff.
I mean, this wholeconversation was awesome.
Um, but I feel like there might be somepeople who are listening who are like,
okay, so how do I actually move abroad?
So there are lots of different ways,like Cepee mentioned to move abroad.
Um, what is one thing someone cando to get them one step closer to
(28:33):
actually making that move abroad?
Well, this may not seem like theobvious, but I think this is super
important and that I think is findinga community of like-minded people.
So I, and I say that because wherever youare, especially if you are in the US and
you aren't thinking of moving abroad andyou start telling your friends and family,
a lot of times they're not gonna get.
(28:54):
They're not going to get it becausethey probably haven't done it.
It's not something they'veever thought of doing.
And it's going to sound crazy to them.
And they're going to project thosefears and what they think on you.
And you're going to startdoubting your decision.
Maybe I am crazy.
Maybe the, maybe I am too old.
Maybe this isn't a good idea.
So when you, um, surround yourselfwith people who get you and a
like minded community, it reallyempowers you to navigate this path
(29:16):
because there's going to be a lotof obstacles you're going to face.
So I think that helps you, uh, feel goodabout your decision and idea and know that
it's not crazy and know that you're ableto do it and we'll help you stick to it if
it's something that you really want to do.
I love that.
Also, you do have a community, don't you?
I do.
So for any women over 30,if you're looking for your
people, join my Facebook group.
(29:37):
It's free.
It's called she hit refresh.
So you can find thatand, and join us there.
Yes.
I will include that inthe show notes, of course.
So when we thinking about moving abroad,what is the one thing most people
probably don't take into account?
And I always like to almost divide thisinto like all of the emotional stuff,
because, you know, when everybody'sthinking about moving abroad, they're
(29:58):
thinking more like logistical,tangible visas, paperwork, booking
flights, where am I going to live?
Blah, blah, blah, but once you'reactually abroad and then or approaching
your departure date to have to saygoodbye, the emotional, spiritual,
mental stuff, I think, kicks in.
So can you share from emotional, mental,spiritual side and then also the physical,
(30:21):
logical, tangible side of things?
Yes, you have so manygreat questions, Cassandra.
I love this.
So, this is great.
I'm so glad you brought this up, theemotional side, the mental side, because
I talk about this a lot, and I like toshine a light on this, because I don't
think it's talked about enough, and thatis that you're going to have doubts.
You may know for sure that you wantto move abroad, and you've known that
for years, but you're still goingto have doubts about your decision
(30:43):
before, during, and after your move.
Like it's totally normal.
Like I, so you're saying,yes, you get it, right?
I knew I wanted to move abroad since Iwas 21 and I finally made it happen at 35.
And still the day of my flight, Ihad those butterflies in my stomach.
I'm like, what am I doing?
Is this the right thing?
And then even after I was living mybest life in Spain, there are still
(31:05):
moments where I'm like, what am I doing?
Is it my, is this the right thing?
Do I need to go back?
So they're, they're fleeting now.
They don't stick around, but stillthose ideas still come into my mind.
So, uh, you get it.
Yes, I got it.
Um, and totally true.
I don't think it ever goes away.
There are definitely like what youwere saying, like the fleeting thoughts
that used to be a lot stronger.
(31:25):
I think when I first arrived and Iwas kind of like fumbling through
carving a space for myself here.
And now that I am more fluentin the language, I am more
immersed in the culture.
I understand more aboutlike how this country works.
I don't think about it so often.
Although there are times whereI'm like, should I go back?
And then I'm like, nah.
(31:47):
Right.
I don't think I'll ever go backeither, but those thoughts creep up.
They do.
They do creep up.
Um, and then they're like, Oh no.
So what about the physical,logical, tangible stuff?
Yes.
Oh my gosh.
I love this.
I have two, one, two here.
And one of them is more of a fun one.
And one's more practical.
So the one, the fun one is, Hey,dating, dating is different.
(32:07):
So let's just get that out there.
Um, and I think some people and myselfincluded, you know, we come to Europe and
we talked a little bit about, you know,meeting someone, but we can have that like
rom com fairytale in our mind, Emily inParis kind of thing, which you can, you
know, it can feel like a rom com at times.
But also it's just important to beaware that dating is different abroad,
(32:29):
especially if you're coming from the U.
S.
These are, this is a different culture,norms, language, wherever you're going.
Dating culture is different.
And so you just need to give yourselfa learning curve to learn about that.
And also that dating is datingno matter where you are.
You're still going to have to kissa lot of frogs to find your prince.
It's not like if you're moving toEurope, every European guy is perfect
and blows American guys out of the water.
(32:50):
I've got a shuffle through them to find ormen or women, whatever you're looking for.
Um, so I just say, be open to theexperience and have fun with it.
Uh, but on a more practical level, I thinkit's important to understand learning
a language takes longer than you think.
I am been here eight years and I'm stilllearning, you know, I'm not fluent.
I wish I was, I'm good, goodat it, but I'm still not me the
(33:12):
way I am in English and Spanish.
Maybe that will never happen.
I don't know, but it's.
Feeling like a lifelong journey.
Oh, yeah, I was okay.
So I have two follow up questions to that.
Um, first one about dating.
Do you have any funny culturalmoments on any dates that you feel
comfortable sharing because I can share?
(33:33):
Nothing.
Oh my gosh.
I have so many, but nothingis coming to mind right now.
I'm blanking out.
So I think you have to go first.
Okay.
I'll go first.
Okay.
So when I first came here, I said that Ididn't want to date because I was like,
I'm here for my European adventure.
I don't have time to date,but then I got curious.
So I got tinder and I think everybodythat I talked to on tinder, I don't know.
(33:55):
This is like a cultural mishap,but this is more annoying, I think,
because a lot of people know whenyou're from the U S and you come here,
the things that they told me, likeall of them were like, well, that's
a girl from the U S doing over here.
You're so far away.
Number one, they always said thatnumber two was, Oh, let's do an
exchange, like I'll teach youEnglish or I'll teach you Spanish.
(34:17):
And, um, you can teach me English, ofcourse, insinuating lots of other things.
Those were like the two things thatI always, always got on Tinder.
And then when I started datingMario, we've been together now
for like eight years, but when hewanted to tell me that he liked me.
The verb in Spanish is gustar,but it's a reflexive verb.
(34:37):
This is about to get into like aSpanish grammar lesson right now.
Um, so the verb in Spanish isgustar and it is reflexive.
So you have to say me gusta,te gusta, all of those things.
But when you're trying to say, I likeyou, it is, Oh, how do you say it?
I don't even know how to say it correctly.
It's like-
Me gusta?
Me gustas?
I think so.
So technically when it's translated,it's a, it means you are liked by
(35:02):
me, which is the actual translation.
But if you're just doing a rawtranslation, it's you like me.
So he was trying to say, I like you.
And he kept saying, no, you like me.
And I was like, this pompousass, like cocky person.
What does he know?
And he was like, yeah, I know.
I know that you like me and I you don't.
(35:23):
He's like, yes, I do.
You like me?
And I was like, no, you don't know.
And he's like, I do know you like me.
And then we figured it outthat he was trying to say it.
Something else there.
There are lots more than that.
It wouldn't always sticks out to me.
That is hilarious.
Well, see, that's kind of rom commy.
So you can have your funlittle moments like that.
(35:46):
They exist.
I love that.
Nothing came to mind.
So we'll just-
okay.
Then we'll just stick with mine.
Um, okay.
And then the otherquestion I had- oh, yes.
It's about language.
So something I'm always curiousabout, because I am also good enough
in Spanish, but definitely there'sstill like, like you were saying, I
am not like fully myself just yet.
(36:08):
So I'm curious to know, doyou think your personality
changes in English and Spanish?
Like, do you think youridentity as Cepee is different?
Like, are you Cepee, Spanish Cepee?
And then Cepee, English speaking Cepee?
Yeah, that's another great question.
Yeah, it changes.
And for me, it changes becauseI don't feel as confident in
Spanish as I do in English.
(36:29):
So one, I can't make jokes.
Like it's so hard by thetime I thought of the joke,
everyone's moved on conversation.
So it's really hard to do like small talkand like little fun jabs here and there.
You can't be jokey jokey.
And I just, I, yeah, like I said,I don't have the confidence.
So even Um, the way I like my bodylanguage changes to, I think in Spanish
(36:50):
of someone who's not as confident.
And so that is a huge goal of mineis like getting to that next level
to where I just feel like myself.
Maybe I can't express myself exactlyI want to, but at least I can feel
like myself in many ways in Spanish.
So, um, we'll see if, uh, if my identitiesfeel different when I get to that level.
Okay, we'll have a, we'll haveanother conversation when that comes.
(37:12):
What about you?
I'm curious to hear about you.
Do you feel like your identity changes?
I think it does.
I don't think I'm as funny in Spanish.
I think I am in English.
I think I'm like thebees knees in English.
You are.
In Spanish I'm more like.
I'm like a subtle funny, which is fine.
Like I'll accept it, you know, but Idon't think I get to express myself
(37:33):
as fully as I want to in Spanish, eventhough like now I'm able to like debate
and have arguments and I can kind oflike interject myself into conversations,
which I was really afraid to before.
I don't get so lost anymore.
Like I can still makejokes here and there.
But sometimes if they talk aboutsuper cultural things or maybe when
(37:53):
they get like really into figurativeSpanish speaking type expressions.
Oh yeah, that just goes way over my head.
I'm like, I like it because I knowlike my Spanish is good enough and
people forget that I'm not native.
That's because like my accent apparentlyis very good or, you know, like the
way I talk sounds like a native.
(38:14):
So then they get into their rhythmand then they start saying things
and I'm like, wait, not yet.
Not there.
I'm not there yet, but thank you.
It's a compliment.
I know.
I'm like, thank you forseeing me in that light.
But, um, can you explainthat one more time?
So it's almost there.
I am planning on taking Spanish classes.
Eventually just to like improve andnot be at like a standstill level.
(38:37):
Cause I feel like I've reached like thispeak of, Oh yeah, you're fluent enough
and people can understand you enough thatyou don't necessarily need to improve.
But I really want to get morelike vocabulary and like, I
don't know, just sound funnier.
Yeah, just be become more of ourselves.
I mean, I'm going totake classes again, too.
I feel like I've actually gonebackwards because I speak my Spanish.
My boyfriend is Spanish also, but Idon't speak- he speaks perfect English.
(39:00):
So I'm not taking advantage of thein house tutor as much as I should.
And a lot of my life is inEnglish because of the work I do.
Yeah.
So I need to make a more consciouseffort after being here eight years to
get back on it because you do get to apoint where you're like, okay, I'm good.
Like I can navigate, I can beindependent here, but then you reach a
plateau and you realize that I can do.
(39:22):
Yeah.
Continuing to the moving abroad stuff.
Do you have a pet peeve when someonesays I'm going to move abroad?
Oh my gosh.
Yes.
Okay, tell it, tell it to the people.
Well, not so much when someonesays, I'm going to move abroad.
But when I bring up this, the topic ofmoving abroad, or someone brings it up,
and then someone has to interject andsay, and I know this is going to be a
divisive thing that I'm saying here.
(39:44):
People are like, well, you need tomake sure that, you know, you don't
get stuck in your foreign bubbleand you need to integrate and you
need to XYZ, which we were justtalking about learning the language.
But I'm actually, my stance on like, Youhave to integrate and, you know, be a part
of the local culture has really changed,um, over the past few years, I think,
you know, let people live how they wantto, like, of course, I'm all for, you
(40:05):
will have such a much richer experienceif you learn the local language, have
friends who are locals, but in reality,that's not so easy, especially if
you're moving abroad in your thirties,forties, fifties and above, like good
luck trying to get into a local circle.
It is hard if you don't have a partner.
Um, also, you know, learning a language,as we mentioned, isn't so easy.
And we both come fromimmigrant backgrounds.
(40:27):
I have immigrants in my family inthe US who still don't speak English
well, who have a lot of friendsthat are from the country they're
from, and that's totally okay.
So I don't want to be judging peopleon how they want to live abroad.
But I know other people have differentviews of like, don't come to a foreign
country to speak your own languageand hang out with your own people.
So that's, that's why my pet peeve.
Ooh, I'm curious to see what peoplewill say after they listen to this.
(40:50):
Cause I have my own stance.
I am like both.
And like, I do agree.
You definitely get like a richerexperience when you like immerse yourself.
in local culture and like the language.
And then also at the same time, if youjust like leave all your people, which
is something I think I ended up doing, Ilike teetered all the way to being like,
Oh, I'm not going to hang out with anybodyfrom the U S like, I'm going to only
hang out with like local Spanish people.
(41:12):
But then you kind of like isolate yourselfalso again, because it's like, Oh gosh,
I don't have anybody that gets me.
They like kind of get me and they get meenough as they can, but when I'm talking
about like the cultural differences,cultural mishaps that you kind of just
go through when you're living abroad,they're going to be like, Oh, I'm sorry.
Um, but somebody else who gets meand is like a foreigner like me,
(41:34):
they're going to be like, Oh yeah.
And we can totally justlike rip off about it.
So yes, I get it.
And okay.
So before we wrap up, I have twoquestions, two final questions.
The first one is, do you have anuanced conversation you think
that we're not having enough of?
Oh, Cassandra's bringingthe questions here.
Um, yeah, I mean, I think, I thinkwe're having the conversation,
(41:54):
but definitely not enough.
I think it's that, you know,living outside of the box is okay.
Living on that unconventional path,taking the unconventional path is okay.
And just as valid as people who aregoing on the path of like, you know,
climbing the career ladder, gettingmarried, having kids, all of that
stuff that a lot of our friends aredoing back home, or at least mine are.
Um, I think it's important to talk about,like, there's no one way to do life.
(42:17):
There's no one measure of success.
And really the point of life,at least in my opinion, is
that it's to be experienced.
So it's okay to start over again at 35,at 40, to not know what you're doing, to
still be exploring and figuring it outwhat you want to do when you grow up.
So I think that's an importantconversation, especially kind of in
the line of work that I do for women.
Women over 30 and women who have deviatedfrom that normal path, who maybe don't
(42:41):
want to get married, who don't want tohave kids and don't want to, you know,
have those six, seven figure salariesand, and have to work 60 hours a week.
Like it's okay to do something different.
I love that.
And I am all for having more ofthose conversations, considering
that I am one of those people.
And you're right.
There's no way, no oneright way to live life.
(43:02):
And I think my quality of life has.
exponentially improvedsince living in Spain.
And I always feel like, youknow, when those thoughts come
back of, do I go back home?
Do I go back to the U S every time I goback and visit, I'm kind of like, Oh yeah.
Quality of life.
I mean, maybe I would have more business.
(43:22):
Maybe I would be making waymore money, but I have so much
like time, space, freedom here.
And I've created such, I get a great,like, environment for myself to
thrive in my own way that I don'tknow if I would be able to replicate
what I have here back there anymore.
And yeah, it just doesn't make sense.
So, yeah, thank you for sharing that.
All right.
(43:42):
So before we wrap up, I love toend every podcast episode with
a journaling prompt, exploratoryquestion, exercise, whatever it is.
So do you have a journaling prompt?
Exercise exploratory question forall the people who are listening.
It could be related to anything thatwe talked about today, moving abroad,
choosing our identities, moving rightafter 30, or you can pull something
(44:05):
else out and be like, no, I'm goingto, you can journal about this.
Well, I, this is for peoplewho want to move abroad.
This is actually a prompt that Igive, uh, to people in my masterclass.
And this is, you know, sit down, getyour paper and journal about what
does a move abroad look like to you?
And I'll give some context to that,because when people say they want to move
(44:27):
abroad, That looks different to everybody.
Some people want to be moving toPortugal because that's where all
the Americans are moving to andit's easy and it's nice there.
Some people want to move to Mexico, right?
And live in Mexico City.
And some people want to go to Thailand.
Some people want to volunteer.
Some people want to retire.
Sitting by the beach and someonea hospital in wrestling city.
(44:47):
So what does that mean when yousay you want to move abroad?
What are you doing with your time?
How are you making money?
What are you doing on a daily basis?
Is dating important to you?
Is that something you want to do?
Do you want to be making friends?
Do you want to be, you know,isolated somewhere on your own?
So really just sit down and thinkabout really in the context of
if you could build that life onyour terms, that ideal life, that
(45:09):
life that you would love to live.
What does that look like to you?
So, that's my journal prompt there.
I love that.
Yeah, and I just would encouragepeople, like, dream big.
This is your chance.
Like, put it to paperand get clear on that.
Mmm.
I love that.
Honestly, I would say really dream bigbecause whatever you imagine and what
I was just saying before too, aboutlike trying to replicate like a life in
(45:31):
Spain to the U S or the life in the US to Spain, I think bigger than that.
Cause it will look very, very different.
So thank you for this journaling prompt.
I will also journal on it.
I mean, you know, why not, eventhough I'm already here, but, um-
Right.
But it's, it's ever evolving.
I think our like vision of what lifeon our terms looks like, you know, I
feel like maybe you feel like that too.
(45:52):
Like, I feel like I've reacheda place where I probably
couldn't even have imagined.
I didn't imagine eight years ago.
I've like exceeded that through what Ibelieved, but there's still more that
I can do and shape and work towards.
So, yeah.
Yeah.
You could still, you couldstill journal on that.
Oh yeah, I'll be journaling on it.
Don't worry.
Um, so that ends this conversation.
(46:12):
Zefi, thank you so, so much forjoining and for sharing all of your
tips and just like your experience andstory before we completely close off.
Is there anything that you areexcited about in the upcoming months?
Yes.
Well, first I wanted to thankyou so much for having me on.
This has been really a unique experiencein terms of podcasts I've been on.
Like I really, I love these questions.
(46:35):
You have just been an incredible job.
So thank you for, you know, creating thespace to talk about things that I think a
lot of other people aren't talking about.
In terms of things that areexciting that are coming up.
Yes.
I had just mentioned my masterclass.
So I have a move abroad after 30masterclass that is starting in September.
Yes.
And so it's for all thewomen over 30 out there.
(46:56):
It's a live four day training, um, whereI, you know, help you realize that a
move abroad on your terms as possible.
And we start to create aplan to get you started.
So it's just $37.
So it would be silly not to join me,but that's coming up in September.
And yeah, that's whatI'm most excited for.
Love it.
Okay.
So I will link that in the show notesfor anybody who is interested and
(47:18):
Cepee, where can people find you?
Yes.
If you'd like more information, definitelythe website, https://shehitrefresh.com/
is the best place to start out, butyou can also follow us @shehitrefresh
on Instagram and Tik TOK.
YouTube, there's tons of resources.
And again, if you're a womanover 30, join me in my Facebook
group at She Hit Refresh.
Love that.
(47:39):
Okay.
All of those links will be in theshow notes and for anybody who
is listening and you are itching,thinking about moving abroad, come
join us over on the dark side.
I mean, it's not really dark in Spain.
It's pretty sunny, very,and warm right now.
Um, but we would love to haveyou abroad and to just share
(48:00):
this experience with you all.
So thank you everyone and stay fierce fam.
If you're hearing this message, that meansyou made it to the end of this episode.
Yay!
Thanks for listening.
If you enjoyed this episode andthought to yourself, Whoa, it me.
I'd love if you could share this withothers, post about it on social media,
(48:21):
and or leave a rating and review.
Don't forget to subscribe too.
Want to hang out with me inother areas of the internet?
You can follow me on Instagram@CassandraTLe for brand message
and content marketing tips andresources, check out my business
@TheQuirkyPineappleStudio.
Thanks again and seeyou in the next episode.
Stay fierce fam!
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Therapy Gecko
An unlicensed lizard psychologist travels the universe talking to strangers about absolutely nothing. TO CALL THE GECKO: follow me on https://www.twitch.tv/lyleforever to get a notification for when I am taking calls. I am usually live Mondays, Wednesdays, and Fridays but lately a lot of other times too. I am a gecko.
The Joe Rogan Experience
The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.