December 18, 2023 • 52 mins
What if you could do more impactful work? ✨
In Season 2, Episode 8 of I’m Lost, So What?, Cassandra is joined by long-term client, La’Kita Williams, for an honest conversation around work, leadership, and the realities of running a business with a chronic illness.
If you’ve been looking for inspiration to take the next step in any area of your life - this conversation is a lil’ dose of what it can look like to challenge our current situation to create something better for ourselves.
In this episode, you’ll learn:
- Why leadership development can benefit everyone
- Systems you can implement in your life to prioritize your well-being
- La’Kita’s story on running a business with Multiple Sclerosis
La'Kita Williams (she/her), Founder, Culture Strategist, Executive Coach
La’Kita Williams is the founder of CoCreate Work. She has over 18 years of diverse experience ranging from corporate sales and training to talent management and organizational development. She specializes in taking a systems approach and works to connect systemic efforts to the individual outcomes at each level of the organization.
As a certified professional coach and trained Master’s level Social Worker, she has worked with small businesses, organizations, founders, and CEOs to strategically plan and design company culture, lead change, and enhance team experience. La’Kita has been quoted in the New York Times and published in Harvard Business Review.
Connect with La’Kita M. Williams elsewhere:
- La’Kita’s LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/lakitafwilliams/
- La’Kita’s Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/lakitamwilliams/
- CoCreate Work’s Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/cocreatework
- CoCreate Work’s Website - https://cocreatework.com/
- CoCreate Work’s article on Harvard Business Review - https://hbr.org/2023/11/to-put-your-company-values-into-action-create-working-agreements
Connect with Cassandra and her business elsewhere:
- Cassandra’s Personal Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/cassandratle/
- The Quirky Pineapple Studio Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/thequirkypineapplestudio/
- The Quirky Pineapple Studio Website - https://thequirkypineapple.com/
- Love the podcast? Considering supporting - https://www.buymeacoffee.com/cassandrale
- Subscribe to Cassandra’s YouTube Channel - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCvIE9KYuAQD39SCkKwKh4ow
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
So people are tired of organizations,taking advantage of them, not paying
(00:04):
them appropriately for their labor.
Um, not allowing them to move amazingideas forward, not allowing, helping
them to grow and try new things,not allowing them to have influence.
Welcome back to the I'm lost, so what?
Podcast, this is your host,Cassandra Le, and y'all are in for
a treat for today's conversation.
(00:25):
I am joined by longtime clientLa'Kita Williams, who is the
founder of CoCreate Work.
La'Kita has over 18 years of diverseexperience ranging from corporate
sales and training to talent managementand organizational development.
She specializes in taking a systemsapproach and works to connect systemic
efforts to the individual outcomesat each level of the organization.
(00:46):
As a certified professional coachand trained master's level social
worker, she has worked with smallbusinesses, organizations, founders,
and CEOs to strategically planand design company culture, lead
change, and enhance team experience.
La'Kita has been quoted in the NewYork Times and Harvard Business
Review, and has also just gottenpublished in Harvard Business Review.
(01:07):
I'm super excited for today's conversationbecause we're going to be talking about
leadership systems and work and whatit's like for La'Kita to live and run
a business with a chronic illness.
All right, y'all, let's just dive in.
Hello.
Hello, everyone.
I'm Cassandra Le and you'relistening to I'm lost, so what?
The podcast exploring betweenbelonging and carving your own path
(01:28):
for all the peeps out there who kindof know what you're doing, but still
question what the fuck is going on.
Yeah, I'm with you.
Hello la'Kita, I'm superexcited to have you here.
Hello, Cassandra.
I'm so excited to be here.
Thank you for having me on the pod.
Of course.
I think this conversation is goingto be so good, especially with
all of the things that are kind ofgoing on right now in the world.
(01:49):
So let's just dive into it so wecan get into all of the good stuff.
I love it.
The first question that I normallyask people is, is what does being
lost mean to you and can youdescribe the feeling of being lost?
What does being lost mean to me?
When I think about being lost for me,because I'm a really structured person.
(02:13):
So structure and guardrailsand plans and next steps are
really, really important to me.
And so if I don't have those things,then typically I will feel, I will have
a feeling of being disconnected or lost.
I haven't ever had asituation where I got.
lost intentionally.
(02:34):
So like, even when I consider myselfas someone who is really risky, so
I will take a risk or take a chance.
Even in that, there's usuallysome element of planning for me.
So I think openness to being like,if we think about it, you know,
(02:54):
just physically like being in thewilderness totally there, but I usually
have a plan that goes along with it.
So if I, if I was to feel totally lostin a traditional sense, it would be, it
would, it would leave me feeling a littlebit stuck, but I could think of it within
(03:14):
this frame of like loss, being an opennesslike in the wilderness, but with the
tools, resources and pieces that you needbecause you carry those with you all the
time, right, as part of your personalityand perspective and how you do things.
Hmm.
So then, I guess, in yoursense of being lost, you.
(03:37):
Or we all could never really be lostif we tapped into those tools that we
carry with us all the time, insteadof like looking for the external.
Absolutely.
If you are connected to like, what aremy strengths, my ways of being and moving
in the world, what's most valuable andimportant to me, then can you be lost?
(04:02):
You can feel disconnected, right?
You can feel down, but those internalguides, your way of being in the
world, I think, are your guardrails.
And so that helps you tofeel a sense of connection.
In the best way.
Oh, I love all of that.
Okay.
So after that, now I havequestions on leadership because I
(04:26):
know you are a leadership coach.
So I feel like, you know, tapping intothose internal tools, um, feeling that
sense of connection is part of leadership.
So how would you define leadership?
Oh, I think first I want to justsay that we are all leaders.
It's it's where I start from and if youdon't feel that your leadership skill is
(04:50):
high, it is something that you can learn.
So I like to just say that straight away.
My definition of leadershipis just the person who.
Is stepping up in the moment and helpingus to get from point A to point B.
You're a leader in your family.
You're a leader when you're in community,you're a leader in your friend group.
(05:10):
You're a leader at work.
So if we think of ourselves and holdourselves to this level of leadership
and showing up as a leader, I think wecan broaden the definition of like what
leadership is and what leadership means.
Now leadership in the work sense, right?
Might be a little, I don't know, Ifeel like we talk about it a lot.
(05:34):
So it feels like there's alot more definition to it.
It means the person that is makingthe decisions or the person that is
driving the vision of the organization.
But a great leader to me isalways someone who can it.
Take in information from various placesand help us to chart a path forward and
(05:56):
really be really look at the ways anddirection that we need to go together.
And you can do that again in manydifferent situations, but that
that's a way I think of leadership.
Mmmmmm.
Okay.
I love that.
I have two follow up questions to that.
Sure.
Uh, the first one is what is oneof the most common misconceptions
(06:20):
of leadership that you see?
I guess we can take it from liketwo sides in work and then also
on an individual personal level.
And then after that question, if I don'thave other questions pop up, I'll ask
the other question that I wanted to ask.
Perfect.
Let's do it.
So misconceptions about leadership.
In the work sense one of themisconceptions I think is that you
(06:44):
have to have a certain personalitytype style or way of moving in the
world to be an effective leader.
I think that there are key skillsassociated with leadership, the ability
to collaborate, to communicate to others,to hold space for others, have a high
level of empathy, and be strategic.
(07:05):
Those are skills that you can learn ifyou feel like they're, um, that you don't
have a skill in, in one of those areas.
But you don't have to be like this part.
You don't have to be likeSteve Jobs to be a leader.
You don't have to be, you know,like Michelle Obama to be a leader.
You can be a leader in your own way.
(07:27):
And they each have theirdifferent leadership styles.
Um, one is more, in my opinion, effectivethan the other, no shade, but in terms of
like, what leadership is at a human level,not just, can I get a specific result
at a specific time, but can I get us allthere in a way that is transformational,
(07:51):
both in the work that we're doingand to an individual personally.
That is deep leadership.
Big misconception would bethat you have to be a certain
way to be an effective leader.
And I fundamentally disagree with that.
Yeah, I would also agree.
I think.
That all I have the same concept as youlike, I believe that we are all leaders,
(08:12):
um, maybe, uh, what we've consumed orthe way, you know, the society is set up.
We were made to believe that we are not,which then kind of, mm, how do I say this?
It kind of strips us of, I don'tknow if I want to say strips us of
our power, but maybe it kind of,mm, puts us in a situation where we
(08:35):
think that we do not have choice.
Yes.
When I don't know ifthat's necessarily true.
Absolutely.
I mean, of course, withinlike, you know, systems of
oppression and all of that stuff.
Yeah.
That does exist, but then alsoat the same time, I do believe
there is choice to do something.
Don't know what thatis, but there is choice.
(08:55):
Yeah.
Yeah.
That there is always choice.
I love this.
You know, from knowing me that, youknow, I lean much more toward optimism
because hope or optimism is all we have.
Right?
Yeah.
|And so any situation that.
Would like allow us to feel like we area victim in this situation and that we
(09:22):
can't tap into personal power is one thatI would challenge directly for anyone.
So if, if you are feelingdisempowered, it means this place
might not be the right place for you.
The system was meant to make you feelthat way, but ultimately, you want to
get into a position place, um, way ofbeing that helps you to tap into your
(09:46):
own sense of leadership effectiveness.
And how do you say?
Um, like, as I think about it, likeownership, like that you, you have,
you can direct yourself and somesituations are the right place for you.
situations aren't.
Um, but ultimately youare always a leader.
(10:07):
Doesn't mean that youaren't ever a follower.
I want to make sure that that is clear,but there is not a moment that you're not
in, you can, that you can't tap into yourown leadership, whether that's at work or.
Outside of work.
Yeah.
Something that, um, one of my previouslife coaches taught me now y'all know
(10:28):
I've got, I've worked with therapistsand all the life coaches before.
We love coaches.
Her name is Nicole Cruz and she is a.
I believe a life and leadershipcoach now for, um, first and
second generation immigrant women.
Um.
Wonderful.
Something that she taught me was actuallytapping into radical responsibility.
Yes.
(10:49):
And that really shifted, um, my mindsetaround just like, yes, things happen.
Sometimes they are out of my control.
Yes, systems are built to make us feela certain way and to, you know, make
things harder and all of that stuff.
Um, but where can, like, where can Istep into my radical responsibility
(11:13):
for my own, like, well being?
Um, and I think that kind ofputs that power back to me to
be like, Oh, well, this sucks.
Like, I don't want to do this.
Like, why do I need to change?
Why do I need to like,you know, shift something?
But without doing that, I wouldjust be in my little spiral,
(11:34):
you know, petty party or no.
I don't know if it's a pettyparty, but it would be like a.
What are, what is it called whenyou just like cry to yourself?
I don't know.
I don't know.
Yeah, it's giving a little bit pity party.
Yeah.
Oh, yes.
I'm having my own little pity party.
Okay.
So another question I had, um, aroundall of this is, you know, we talked
(11:57):
about like the misconceptions on theinternet, I love referring to the internet
as a very valid source of information.
That was a joke, everyone.
Um, and I think also in lots ofleadership resources, at least
maybe the ones that I have read.
People talk about leadership likeempowerment, and do you think that
leadership is just about personalempowerment, or do you think it
(12:21):
could also mean something else?
Well, tell me more.
So what, what, I'm curious to hearfrom our internet, the internet,
our internet friends, what are theysaying it could be besides that?
Um, so another, I believe it's ShebaRufay, uh, that's the episode before you
(12:43):
guys, uh, she is, uh, another one of ourlong term clients and now turn friend.
Um, she's also a leadership consultant.
Coach.
I don't know if she wouldconsider herself a coach.
Um, but she talks about how, um, a lotof the times leadership development
in general, well, kind of focuseson like, just personal power.
(13:06):
So, you know, like making sure thateverybody steps into their radical
responsibility everybody talks about,Or, you know, you have choice and all of
that stuff, which I think is important.
Um, but something that I, I think shereally focuses on is, uh, community power,
which I think in, actually in one of yourframeworks that we talked about together
(13:28):
is actually bringing in community as well,because like your business or organization
or just like if in within your leadership,um, ties in, I think yours was yourself,
your team, the business and community.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Can you describe that more?
Yeah, absolutely.
(13:48):
So our framework, it's like we think aboutthis is like the personal transformation
is what leads to any sort oforganizational or systems transformation.
So at the center of our work will alwaysbe the individual, and it will always have
these elements of ownership, um, combinedwith things like well being, right?
(14:09):
That it starts with us, and then theaction that we take kind of blooms
out and has an impact on others.
So if we, in that way, the individualempowerment to your point about
radical responsibility, ourperspective around ownership or
personal transformation are critical.
They are the starting pointin so many ways for us.
(14:32):
And then we would say, okay, now, whatdoes that mean for how I lead this team?
How I lead this organization and howI show up as a leader in community.
They all come together to create thisspace where we are doing our best, right?
That we are doing our best work.
(14:53):
We are living our best lives.
We have a shared sense of connection andcommitment, but it does center around
like, what place am I starting from?
And like, what do I want to work on?
So the biggest goal for us is thatfolks will look at their individual
strengths, their ways of being inthe world and say, I am a leader and
(15:17):
I have something to contribute and Ican contribute it across these areas.
So even if I'm a part of community,I am contributing to that community,
my individual leadership, myperspective, my style, my strengths.
In a way that then makesthe community better.
(15:37):
I love that, and I totally agree too.
I do feel like no change, I mean if wewant to go big picture here, no change
can actually happen unless I believeindividuals start, kind of like, you
know, what you were saying, workingtowards, you know, understanding how
they fit in, what their perspectiveis, um, what their style is.
And then from there, I really likethe word that you used, blooms into
(16:01):
something that the community kindof like can flourish on as well.
Power grows and grows.
Absolutely.
But like any movement that we'veseen, any, even at a community
level movement, it it starts at anindividual level and goes from there.
And then, uh, the, I think sometimes wherethe disconnect is, is that an individual
(16:23):
might start, might want to have thattransformation or move things forward, and
then it gets stuck in some sort of way.
So rather that's by a limited beliefthat they have, rather they aren't
speaking out or connecting with otherswho can move the mission forward, but it
starts at an individual level and bloomsinto and it's connected to community.
(16:47):
I love that.
So talking all about leadership and youwere talking about, like, you know, there
are skill sets that one can learn, ummmmm,be a more effective leader, do you have,
what is like one of the biggest advantagesof leadership development for everyone?
Because I know that's something thatyou actually offer with your business
CoCreate Work, which we didn't name.
(17:08):
So naming it now.
Hey, that's okay.
Um, it's so funny.
I just have to agree becauselike our marketing partner and
you're like, you know what?
We should probably say thename of the business right now.
I love it.
It's never too late.
I know.
All right, perfect.
So the question that youhave for me, remind me?
Yes.
(17:29):
What is the biggest advantage ofleadership development for everyone?
Yeah, biggest advantage ofleadership development is that
it's personal development, right?
And we all want to, at our core, The,the, one of the biggest things for humans
after we meet our basic needs is that wewant to have impact if we are going to
(17:52):
have impact, then we want to work on ourdevelopment and it is a continuous cycle
kind of like, I think sometimes there'sa label place that like, oh, this is a
person who's into personal development.
Yeah.
And you know, everyone elseisn't into personal development.
(18:12):
Well, they're having some sort ofdevelopment, whether they're leading it
with intention or not is the question.
And whether they're growing or not is thequestion in a way that they want to grow.
So leadership development isabout personal development.
And so when you commit to developingyourself as a leader, then you're
committing to all the benefitsthat come along with that, right?
(18:33):
Which is that I'm going tohave more clarity about.
Who I am, what I stand for,what's important to me.
I'm going to know how I want torespond in difficult situations.
I'm going to be clear about my decisionmaking and frameworks that I apply
to my life and how I want to show upfor my team, my family, my community.
(18:54):
So leadership development is a part ofthat life development and ultimately.
We know that when we are engaged inlike development, personal growth,
we are getting better right thatwe are holding space for ourselves.
And that doesn't mean,and I want to say to that.
(19:15):
It doesn't limit, like it doesn't have alimited view of leadership development.
So leadership development isn'tonly working with a coach.
It isn't only reading a certainamount of books per year.
It isn't only waking up atfive and journaling, right?
There's all sorts of waysthat we develop into the next
step of our leadership, right?
The transition into our next stepof personal development and growth.
(19:38):
And so when you make a commitment to say,you know what, I'm specifically going
to work on my development as a leader,how I want to show up for community
team, family, whatever it is, thenyou are claiming right, that personal
transformation for yourself and you arealso being a mirror for others and a
(20:05):
vision for others about what's possible.
Yeah.
Oh, I love all of that.
And honestly, everything that youwere describing about like having a
framework for decision making, um,knowing how you want to show up,
uh, taking it back to what you saidbefore about like when you're lost
in the forest and like you have likethe boundaries or whatever it is.
(20:25):
I was just thinking about when I didn'thave those things and the immediate
emotion that came up in my body as youwere talking was this feeling of chaos,
like chaos and just personally anxietyfor me of like, like I'm just like my
mom used to say this all the time andShe would be like, I don't like running
(20:48):
around like a chicken without a head.
Like, I, and like without, I thinkleadership, like personal leadership
or just like personal development.
I think I was running around like achicken without a head because it's like
asking the same question again, like,what do you want to eat for dinner?
And you're just like, uh, Or you tryto watch, like, you want to watch
(21:09):
a movie on Netflix and you're like,what movie do you want to watch?
And then maybe you and your friendsor you and your partner or whomever is
like, um, uh, and then you spend like 45minutes scrolling on Netflix, 45 minutes
on Pinterest looking for a recipe.
That's the feeling that I feel likeI have multiplied when I don't have
(21:30):
like, You know, my clear valuesor when I don't have, you know, Oh
yeah, this is what I want to do.
Or if I don't have like, even just likesimple lists, I don't like that feeling.
Yeah.
Absolutely.
And I think most of us don't, right.
And we are, we also put ourselvesin a little bit of danger when we're
in that situation because then.
(21:51):
a direction we're taking isoften influenced by someone else.
Again, to my point about beinga follower, it doesn't mean that
there aren't spaces and places forus to follow the lead of others.
I follow leaders across many differentindustries on many different topics.
That is okay, but I know my internalPrinciples, guidance system, direction,
(22:17):
so I can say this is in alignment forme, or perhaps it was in alignment
and it's no longer in alignment.
So that is why it's important tocommit to this level of development,
because then you are always trackingwhat is my next right step, I don't
need to know the forever one, but thiscompass that I have within me, like my
(22:39):
leadership, um, we talk at co creatework a lot about like leadership brand,
uh, my leadership brand I am clear on.
So then that will help me in thedecisions I make about when, what
spaces I want to be a follower.
Who do I need to follow?
Who, you know, I know it's a joke on theinternet of like, I was influenced, right?
Like, who do I want to be influenced by?
(23:01):
And that I'm always able tocheck in and say, you know what?
It's time for me to switch, youknow, who I'm following or in which
ways that, uh, direction I'm going.
And I think it's moreimportant now than ever before.
Not because I'm not one ofthose people like this is the
most important time in history.
Uh, more than ever before because ofthe amount of information that is coming
(23:24):
at us on a consistent basis from socialmedia, from ads, from all the things.
So we really want to be grounded.
Yeah.
Oh, I totally, I totally get that.
Um, I think in a later episode inthis podcast, uh, we talk about
Media literacy and how importantmedia literacy, especially in
(23:45):
today's day and age, but yeah.
So thank you for sharingall of that on leadership.
I have more questions, so I want toget into systems and work because
I love talking about systems.
I know you love talking about systems.
What is one system you believe that peopleneed to have in their business if they
(24:06):
have one or In their personal lives?
And then I have more questions onsystems because I could honestly
talk about systems all the time?
Oh, I love systems.
Okay one system that you need to havein your business- Okay, I'm gonna name
the one that's most often overlooked.
Okay project management So a lot oftimes we'll have conversations with
(24:27):
folks and they'll say like, I don'tknow what's happening with our culture.
Like, we need to do more fun activities.
We need to connect with folks.
And then we'll do somethinglike a retrospective, which
just ask three questions, what'sworking, where are we stuck?
What might we do differently?
And the places that we're stuck is like.
I was working on a project and someoneelse was working on the same project.
(24:49):
I am not getting updates onthe things that I'm working on.
It's not clear what my role is.
Like all of those pieces andthose track in so many ways
back to project management.
So I'm just going to say, if you areusing lists, and Excel is the way,
and email is the way to manage things.
(25:09):
I want to ask you to step awayfrom that and identify a project
management system and use it.
I'm not paid by any, by anyproject management tool company.
But what I'm going to tell you is that inorder for us to work together effectively,
we have to have shared language, sharedunderstanding and shared practices.
(25:30):
A project management tool is a central wayfor you to set that up in your business.
Uh, and of course, with any toolthat we have, we have to have the
systems that support that tool.
How do we use it?
What do we mark it's done?
All the things.
And so some folks may be listening to thislike, Oh hell no, I don't want to do that.
But what I'm telling you, what I'm,I'm asking you to consider is that the
(25:56):
effort and time you put in to set thatup is going to pay back in dividends.
And we see that from everything fromretention to employee experience.
Joy at work and personal joyand experience for leaders.
So if you are even just one individualwho is partnered with someone
external, a vendor, even still,you should have project management.
(26:19):
So that is what I would encourage folks.
So that's the one.
Internal to work system,a system outside of work.
I'm curious to know what you'resaying, because I knew about
the project management one.
Yeah, you knew I was going to like,feel some type of way about that.
Okay, let's see.
So the personal system to use.
(26:45):
You know, I've been thinking a lot latelyactually about working agreements and like
this system, like setting up a system ofshared language within our households.
Oh, so one, one of the things someonehad posted something the other day.
And, uh, I said, Oh, this isgreat because like in our family,
(27:07):
we call each other, the TM.
So TM meaning for team.
And so our TM, you know, one of theimportant thing says is like, how
do we communicate and think aboutthings like when someone is quiet?
What does that mean?
You know, when someone issaying, Hey, I need space.
What does that mean?
(27:27):
If we like, how do wecheck in with each other?
Right?
Um, and we have a cadence oflike checking in on Sundays.
Um, we have two who, one incollege, one who lives in another
state and they call every Sunday.
So those are some of the agreements thatwe have in our family that basically
are like, here are the practices weuse and the shared, like language
(27:49):
share practices that we use to beable to work together effectively.
So I would say that that's asystem that we use all the time.
Another system that I personallyuse is energy management.
So I manage a chronic illness.
I have multiple sclerosis, and that meansthat, um, some people may, if, if you
(28:11):
have a chronic illness yourself or youha are associated with someone who does,
you may have heard the term of spoons.
Uh, so spoons is like the amountof energy that you have in a day.
And kind of once you're outtaspoons, you're outta spoons.
You, you don't get anymore.
And for me, it is very important that Ido a good job at managing those spoons.
(28:35):
So that's a personal system I use.
So I will wake up in the morningand I will do a body scan to say,
okay, how am I feeling today?
How many spoons do I think I'm startingwith and where can I allocate them?
It literally, Cassandra, took mea year after being diagnosed to
deeply understand energy management.
(28:57):
So I would think, okay, I canjust push through this thing.
Uh, typically pushing throughis not good for anybody.
And it's devastating for someonewho has a chronic illness.
And so.
It was like, okay, I can't understand.
Like I could do this yesterday,but I can't do this today.
And I didn't do that much today.
And I did more yesterdayand I didn't feel this way.
(29:19):
So managing that system aroundenergy management is critical.
Um, I personally think it wouldbenefit anybody to track your energy
and do energy management set up like aprocess where you think about spoons,
of course, not to take away from thechronic illness community, but just
(29:40):
in a way for us to deeply understandwhat wellbeing is for all of us.
Yeah.
I think I got kind of off track there.
No, no, no.
This is great.
Um, I love all of the thingsthat you just mentioned.
Okay.
So.
So just to recap for those who arelistening, um, for the business and
work, we talked about project management.
Project management.
(30:01):
Um, very important.
Please do not projectmanagement, oh, what?
I just turned it into a verb.
Please do not do projectmanagement in your inbox.
Um, I don't know how people do that.
Sometimes I talk to, uh, my sisterwho works in corporate and I was like,
Oh, how do you keep track of likethe projects that you have to do?
And she's like, Oh, Ijust checked my email.
And Excuse me?
(30:22):
Yeah.
You check your email?
And then, and often it's not even,so it often, it, it is just email and
not set up with any, I think someonecould figure out how to do it, but
often it isn't that level of intention.
It is just like going through emailboxes and, um, yeah, it's, it's not-
(30:43):
I've, I've worked with, um, some peoplewho have done project management in Slack.
I don't know about that one either.
Don't use slack.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I wouldn't either.
I would not.
Um, that's very difficult.
Especially if you don't pay for slackand then the messages disappear in 98.
If people want to email me,I'll tell them my project.
(31:03):
Yes.
Um, and then for personal, you mentioned,um, setting up working agreements
with like the people in your life.
Um, I really love that one.
I think that is something.
That I've, um, been working towardswith like my family, with my
sisters, my parents, with my friends.
(31:23):
I didn't actually havethe language to say that.
So thank you because now I'm like,Oh my gosh, it's so, it's so clear.
And then also the energy management.
So that's somethingthat I'm still learning.
I feel like I've been on this journey fora very long time and every day it changes.
Just like you shared.
So I love, I love all of these.
Okay.
So going into all of this kind oflike moving away from systems and
(31:44):
talking about work, I'm very curiousbecause I feel like there is a
battle on TikTok between millennials.
I'm not on Tik Tok I have a little secret.
I'm not on Tik Tok.
Probably not the best.
All right, my co owner who was alsoon the podcast, Chloe, it's kind of
in shock that I am not on Tik Tok.
(32:06):
I know.
It's probably for the better, honestly.
So I'm curious.
Um, so I'm a millennial,I believe, millennial,
zillennial, maybe, I don't know.
My younger sister is, I believe,Gen Z, so she was born in 2002,
um, and a common conversation I'mseeing on TikTok these days, uh, from
(32:27):
millennials and from Gen Z is thatpeople just don't want to work anymore.
Like, we just We just want to exist.
Like, the world is, youknow, the world is hard.
We just want to live cottagecore lives.
That was like a thing for a little bit.
Oh, what's cottagecore?
Cottagecore is like when you live inthe meadows and you basically wear like
(32:50):
you know those dresses and like clothes-
yeah!
-That you would wear.
You're just like vibing.
Okay.
Yeah.
And you have like a homestead and thenlike, okay, you live off the land.
Um, that's work.
That's work.
I know that is work.
Like that-
that's a lot of work.
Actually I just wannahighlight . Okay, go ahead.
Um, so.
So that is kind of what peopleare saying these days, like, they
just don't want to work anymore.
(33:11):
So what are your thoughts on that?
I would love to know.
Uh, what are your thoughts on that?
What do you think is causingpeople to not want to work?
And do you have a solution?
I mean, this is a blanket thing,so of course it depends on like
individuals and totally work and,you know, companies, but what would
you do to change the first thing?
(33:32):
It's like, uh, what's my thoughtsabout folks don't want to work,
you know, or what's the reason thatsome people don't want to work.
So I, you know, I actually don't agree.
That people don't want to work,you know, I, but I can't go
against what someone's is saying astheir personal experience, right?
If somebody is saying, I don't want towork, I can't say no, actually you do.
(33:54):
I wouldn't say that, but I think thereis a little bit more of a focus on
people don't want to work in parenthesesthan is the actual truth of it, right?
That and as human beings, it isimportant to us to have impact.
So people will challenge thisidea of like, folks don't have a
(34:15):
purpose or purpose isn't important.
There is not- people wantto make a difference.
We all want to make adifference in our own way.
And that is okay.
I think what it is a little bit is thatit's like, well, I want people to want
to make a difference or have an impactin the way I want them to have an impact.
(34:38):
Right.
So people are tired of organizationstaking advantage of them, not paying
them appropriately for their labor,um, not allowing them to move amazing
ideas forward, not allowing, helpingthem to grow and try new things, not
allowing them to have influence right?
From a systemic perspective.
Of course, we talked about the individualpower as well, but organizations have
(35:03):
not transitioned effectively intothe new, like the future of work and
what people want work to look like, Ithink people have always wanted work
to look like this and the org andsome organizations did that and some
didn't, but now back to our point aboutthe individual lead into community.
The community of people who aresaying, Hey, I'm not going to do
(35:26):
like this work where I'm not havingan impact anymore is significant.
So then that makes a larger numberof people saying, Hey, this needs
to change and we won't stand for it.
So, you know, we talk to peopleall the time who are like, they
take a sabbatical or they're offfor a year or something like that.
(35:47):
We actually work with organizations tohelp their founders be able to take.
Time off one of our clients tookthree months off this summer.
And without a doubt,people are like, I'm ready.
I'm back.
I want to be connected.
I want, I want to do this work.
And that's not just folkswho are founders, right?
(36:07):
So we want to have impact.
So if we change the word from workto impact, I think we would all
agree that yes, we all want to haveimpact and we want to be in places
that can enable that impact, or wewant to do that impact on our own.
So I really challenged the ideathat there is a huge group of
people who don't want to work.
(36:29):
Like we talked about earlier, uh,about the folks on the homestead
that like, that's a lot of work andthat's a lot of work and that work
will impact maybe just their family.
But also I would be curious how many ofthose folks who started the homestead
have the supplies and things they needfor their family who don't then go
(36:50):
on and supply another family or whodon't then invite people to follow on
their journey or learn how to do it.
That is work, right?
That is work.
That is impact.
So I actually, at a macro level,don't buy into this idea that
people don't want to have impact.
They do um, it's just thatwork and impact have not been
(37:12):
synonymous and they should be.
Hmm.
Oh, I love this.
So I think then, this kind ofreminded me of this movie I watched.
Oh, I cannot remember the name,but my partner showed it to me.
It was about this family who the motherpasses away, and then the dad raises
all of the children In the woods.
(37:32):
I really wish I knew what thatmovie was, but he like raises
all the kids in the woods.
They're all homeschooled.
They do not interact withlike quote unquote normal
society and all of that stuff.
And in one of the scenes.
one of his daughters goes,Oh, that's interesting.
And the dad is like,interesting is a lazy word.
(37:53):
Um, it's like when somebodyasks you, how are you doing?
You're like, Oh, I'm good.
That's like a lazy response.
Um, that's like a blanket thing thatkind of covers, I think, what people
actually want to say and which connectingit back to your point, I feel like when
you were making the differentiationbetween like impact and like work or.
Um, or that it needs to be synonymousor that maybe it's not that
(38:13):
people don't want to work anymore.
It's that people are fed upor we are fed up with doing
work that doesn't make impact.
Um, or that we are we don'twant to do work that it
continuously exploits us anymore.
Um, but of course saying that I think isscarier than saying, oh, I don't want to
(38:33):
work anymore because I could say I'm good.
Or I could say, Oh, that's interesting.
Or I could say, I don'twant to work anymore.
But the reality is.
I have to really get clear on it, which isI don't want to do work like this anymore.
I love it.
Absolutely.
I a thousand percent agree with this.
(38:54):
Right?
Because then once yousay it like that, um-
you have to do something.
Yeah.
Yeah.
You have to, you have to dosomething, you have to take action.
Um, and to your point,you have to get clear.
And sometimes that deeper diveinto what is really happening
for me feels inaccessible.
(39:14):
And sometimes it can feel inaccessiblebecause they are in a place where
they're doing a lot of work.
But not having a lot of impact.
So it, they don't even have thespace to, to think about it.
Yeah.
Hmm.
All good things.
I don't have answers.
Um, but these are just like thingsthat I'm like, Oh, where else have I
(39:35):
been lazy with my language describingsomething that I don't like.
That, I have a deeper thought about.
Yeah.
I love that.
I think it's a good reflection.
And also from an energy managementperspective, you take that shortcut
for a reason and you don't always haveto go in and make yourself crystal
(39:55):
clear, but when it's time to make itcrystal clear for yourself is I think
what you're saying is like, okay,I'll make the commitment to do that,
Yeah.
Which actually in one of the previousepisodes we talked about, um, with
one of our guests, Isa, uh, we talkedabout committing to yourself and kind
of what you were just saying, likewhen you have the energy time space,
(40:15):
um, to do it, I mean, you can't committo all the things because you just
can't, but when you have that, thenit's kind of saying, okay, I commit to
this to create change or I commit tothis because I want to get to X, Y, Z.
So like this year I said, Oh,I'm going to commit to getting
a Spanish driver's license.
That was a lie.
So, but I, I felt a lot of tensionand frustration not having a
(40:37):
Spanish driver's license this year.
Totally.
So next year, um, I've already kindof started thinking about, okay,
it's not that I don't want to drive.
I am worried about driving in adifferent country, but I have more
tension and frustration than excusesat this point because I'm tired of my
own shit, but I need to start creatingthat change to make space to study,
(41:00):
to take lessons, to do things sothat I can actually get this license.
Anyways.
Okay.
That is about my own personal strugglewith not getting a license in Spain.
So I do want to dive into.
What it's like for you to live with andrun a business with a chronic illness.
Uh, you mentioned before thatyou have multiple sclerosis.
(41:22):
What is something that most people don'trealize about running a business and
living a life, uh, with a chronic illness?
Yeah, I, you know, the, I was diagnosedin 2020 and each month day since then
has really been an unfolding and adeeper understanding for me and an
(41:43):
understanding also of like what myperspective in life was like before
being diagnosed, not just how I waspersonally and what my energy was like,
but also how I interacted with others.
And the amount of kind of ableismthat goes along with like, you
know, do, do, do go, go, go.
(42:03):
And the lack of flexibility and tolerancewhen people aren't showing up that way.
Um, and so it has really beena learning, a deep learning for
me and unfolding for me about.
Chronic illness, what it means, howmany people are actually impacted by
chronic illness is significant, about 60percent of people in the United States
(42:25):
alone are impacted by chronic illness.
And so it has continued to bea journey of learning for me.
One of the things that's been mostbeneficial is learning about energy
management and not just applying my-that for myself, but I'm applying
that in our business and how we worktogether and center and well being for
(42:46):
us as an organization and talking toour clients about well being and energy
management and things like stress as well.
And so all of those, I think fundamentallythe way I think about work, the way I
move in the world around work, the, thework that I do in the world has been
(43:06):
changed as a, as a result of being someonewho was diagnosed with chronic illness.
But it also took me a littlebit of time to make a term.
And that term was like, okay, Ican't do what I wanted to do anymore.
And now I just have to have amuch smaller dream and it took me
until this year to realize thatthat didn't need to be the case.
(43:27):
And so that has been a bigtransition for me this year.
Wow.
So then talking about like work andhow now you are centering well being
for, uh, co create work and thenalso helping your clients do that.
How do you think small businessesor larger corporations organizations
(43:47):
can show up for their teams orpartners, collaborators, clients
who are impacted by chronic illness?
So the first thing is that peoplehave to be able to communicate
that they have a chronic illness.
I mean, I'm in a lot of support groupsand all of that, and I constantly
see that people put leaders, folks,on notice that they are managing
(44:12):
a chronic illness, and then theywere taken out of interview loops.
They were rescinded job offers.
They were treated differently atwork, which all are illegal behaviors.
So I just named that to say, that'sprobably not our listeners here,
but I want to start with that verybasic premise is that that is illegal
(44:33):
behavior and discriminatory behavior.
I think the 2nd thing for us to thinkabout is that if we are able bodied
and we don't manage an illness is tothink about the perspective of others.
So this deep perspective taken of if I ama leader, I don't have a chronic illness,
what do I need to know, understand aboutpeople who have chronic illness so that I
(44:56):
can then create the type of culture thatsupports people with chronic illness.
And I say that to say, because thereof course are static steps that
everybody can take, but I also wantyou to be thinking about your specific
industry, business organization,and what that would mean for you.
And so in order to understand that youneed to know, you know, what it's like
(45:19):
for folks who have chronic illness.
So seek to understand, um, isa really important practice
and then the other things.
So it's about items like how dowe manage leave and any policies
associated with leave and time off?
How do we also create more autonomy andflexibility inside of our organization?
(45:42):
So there shouldn't be any barriers tosomeone needing to attend a doctor's
appointment, go and take care of aloved one that we should have a process
in place where people can communicatethe need, do what they need to do, and
then have flexibility to do the workthat they need to do in the world.
Right.
We're missing.
And I'm not trying to makea business case because.
(46:06):
It, this is something that we justshould do, but it is a huge miss for
organizations and businesses to missthe talent of all of these, you know,
all the amazing people in the world,because they are being discriminatory
or not making, not intentionallymaking space to bring people in.
(46:26):
So I'll just say that.
So autonomy and flexibility.
Our policies are really critical.
Perspective taking isalso really critical.
Remove the barriers that people willhave in place and make it easy for
folks to be able to communicate what'sgoing on with them and what the needs
are so we can build in the type ofsolutions that would work for everyone
(46:48):
for folks who are managing an illness.
to folks who are on parental leaveto folks who, you know, need any
other birth to take any other break.
I think all of those pieces are critical.
There's a laundry list, but I justwant to, I think if we start there,
that it gives us sort of a wave offorward movement, and then we can
(47:11):
build on, uh, more specific practicesthat'll continue to, to be helpful.
I love that.
I feel like, yeah, as somebody who doesnot have a chronic illness and I consider
myself able bodied, but if you all listento the first episode with my partner
Mario, he does have a chronic illness.
He has an autoimmune disease and Ididn't ever take into consideration
(47:37):
prior to dating him because I never knew.
Um, but now that I think heis also more open with his,
uh, autoimmune disease then.
We can also do likeunderstand each other more.
Exactly.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It takes a lot of perspectiveshift to understand.
And, and I will say like, if somebody whomanages a chronic illness, there is also
(48:01):
sometimes self right ableism that I have,I'm like, I should be able to do this.
I should push through.
And so knowing that, you know,just starting from the mindset of.
Believing people of like, ifsomeone is saying, Hey, you know,
I need to shift this projector whatever, trust that right.
(48:22):
It ultimately as leaders, we all needto improve our sense of trust in others.
And I know people saythat trust is earned.
I tend to start from aperspective of trust.
And then if things happen, youknow, I can make adjustments.
Yeah.
Mm.
So many things, but I have more questions.
Like the last two questionsbefore we wrap up.
(48:42):
The first one is, do you thinkthere's a nuanced conversation
that we're not having enough of?
And also, um, any last journaling promptsfor folks before we wrap up this session?
Nuanced conversationwe're not having enough.
I think we talked about it a lot today.
I'm, I'm a work nerd.
Like I think about work all the time.
(49:03):
I think about the future of work.
I think about all the things.
So one of the things that is, that I sayall the time is that work changes lives.
Okay.
And we are not talking about that enough.
We, this is.
You know, the conversations aboutpeople don't want to work, to the
common conversations about authenticity,to the conversations about chronic
(49:26):
illness, all center around thisidea that work is impactful in
people's lives and it changes lives.
And so if we start to have theseconversations, not just from what's
good for a business, but like what isgood for humanity, meaning that like
impact and work is, is one of thoseis like a critical piece of that.
(49:50):
And that if we can buildtransformational work, it will have
impact, not just on that individual,but potentially for generations.
So I, we should be havingthat conversation more.
Journal and prompts.
I, you know.
I have to say this and admit it.
I'm not a big journal girlie.
Um, but one of the things thatI do a lot is just reflection.
(50:15):
And so anytime that folks can takea beat and say, What happened today?
What were the thoughts and feelingsthat I had as I went through the
day and reflect on that and getdeeper understanding of themselves.
I think that that will bereally, really impactful.
I mean, it's, it's beenlife changing for me.
(50:36):
Clarity is one of the things thathas driven my success and driven.
Uh, my continued like goal and, youknow, goals and planning in the world.
So anything that brings clarity,I think is worth writing about.
I love that.
Thank you so much Lakita for joining.
(50:58):
I am going to link all of yoursocials in the show notes.
Of course you are.
Yes.
It's at co create workand also @LakitaMWilliams.
For all those who are interested.
And thank you again, La'Kita, thisconversation has been so enlightening.
So amazing.
Yeah, it's been awesome.
Thank you.
It was a pleasure to spend time with you.
Thank you for doing thispodcast and being a leader.
(51:20):
Thank you for your leadership.
And it was great to talk to you.
Thanks.
If you're hearing this message, that meansyou made it to the end of this episode.
Yay.
Thanks for listening.
If you enjoyed this episodeand thought to yourself, whoa.
It's me.
I'd love if you could share this withothers, post about it on social media,
and or leave a rating and review.
(51:42):
Don't forget to subscribe too.
Want to hang out with me inother areas of the internet?
You can follow me on Instagram,@CassandraTLe for brand message
and content marketing tips andresources, check out my business
at @TheQuirkyPineappleStudio.
Thanks again and seeyou in the next episode.
Stay fierce fam!
So people are tired of organizations,taking advantage of them, not paying
(00:04):
them appropriately for their labor.
Um, not allowing them to move amazingideas forward, not allowing, helping
them to grow and try new things,not allowing them to have influence.
Welcome back to the I'm lost, so what?
Podcast, this is your host,Cassandra Le, and y'all are in for
a treat for today's conversation.
(00:25):
I am joined by longtime clientLa'Kita Williams, who is the
founder of CoCreate Work.
La'Kita has over 18 years of diverseexperience ranging from corporate
sales and training to talent managementand organizational development.
She specializes in taking a systemsapproach and works to connect systemic
efforts to the individual outcomesat each level of the organization.
(00:46):
As a certified professional coachand trained master's level social
worker, she has worked with smallbusinesses, organizations, founders,
and CEOs to strategically planand design company culture, lead
change, and enhance team experience.
La'Kita has been quoted in the NewYork Times and Harvard Business
Review, and has also just gottenpublished in Harvard Business Review.
(01:07):
I'm super excited for today's conversationbecause we're going to be talking about
leadership systems and work and whatit's like for La'Kita to live and run
a business with a chronic illness.
All right, y'all, let's just dive in.
Hello.
Hello, everyone.
I'm Cassandra Le and you'relistening to I'm lost, so what?
The podcast exploring betweenbelonging and carving your own path
(01:28):
for all the peeps out there who kindof know what you're doing, but still
question what the fuck is going on.
Yeah, I'm with you.
Hello la'Kita, I'm superexcited to have you here.
Hello, Cassandra.
I'm so excited to be here.
Thank you for having me on the pod.
Of course.
I think this conversation is goingto be so good, especially with
all of the things that are kind ofgoing on right now in the world.
(01:49):
So let's just dive into it so wecan get into all of the good stuff.
I love it.
The first question that I normallyask people is, is what does being
lost mean to you and can youdescribe the feeling of being lost?
What does being lost mean to me?
When I think about being lost for me,because I'm a really structured person.
(02:13):
So structure and guardrailsand plans and next steps are
really, really important to me.
And so if I don't have those things,then typically I will feel, I will have
a feeling of being disconnected or lost.
I haven't ever had asituation where I got.
lost intentionally.
(02:34):
So like, even when I consider myselfas someone who is really risky, so
I will take a risk or take a chance.
Even in that, there's usuallysome element of planning for me.
So I think openness to being like,if we think about it, you know,
(02:54):
just physically like being in thewilderness totally there, but I usually
have a plan that goes along with it.
So if I, if I was to feel totally lostin a traditional sense, it would be, it
would, it would leave me feeling a littlebit stuck, but I could think of it within
(03:14):
this frame of like loss, being an opennesslike in the wilderness, but with the
tools, resources and pieces that you needbecause you carry those with you all the
time, right, as part of your personalityand perspective and how you do things.
Hmm.
So then, I guess, in yoursense of being lost, you.
(03:37):
Or we all could never really be lostif we tapped into those tools that we
carry with us all the time, insteadof like looking for the external.
Absolutely.
If you are connected to like, what aremy strengths, my ways of being and moving
in the world, what's most valuable andimportant to me, then can you be lost?
(04:02):
You can feel disconnected, right?
You can feel down, but those internalguides, your way of being in the
world, I think, are your guardrails.
And so that helps you tofeel a sense of connection.
In the best way.
Oh, I love all of that.
Okay.
So after that, now I havequestions on leadership because I
(04:26):
know you are a leadership coach.
So I feel like, you know, tapping intothose internal tools, um, feeling that
sense of connection is part of leadership.
So how would you define leadership?
Oh, I think first I want to justsay that we are all leaders.
It's it's where I start from and if youdon't feel that your leadership skill is
(04:50):
high, it is something that you can learn.
So I like to just say that straight away.
My definition of leadershipis just the person who.
Is stepping up in the moment and helpingus to get from point A to point B.
You're a leader in your family.
You're a leader when you're in community,you're a leader in your friend group.
(05:10):
You're a leader at work.
So if we think of ourselves and holdourselves to this level of leadership
and showing up as a leader, I think wecan broaden the definition of like what
leadership is and what leadership means.
Now leadership in the work sense, right?
Might be a little, I don't know, Ifeel like we talk about it a lot.
(05:34):
So it feels like there's alot more definition to it.
It means the person that is makingthe decisions or the person that is
driving the vision of the organization.
But a great leader to me isalways someone who can it.
Take in information from various placesand help us to chart a path forward and
(05:56):
really be really look at the ways anddirection that we need to go together.
And you can do that again in manydifferent situations, but that
that's a way I think of leadership.
Mmmmmm.
Okay.
I love that.
I have two follow up questions to that.
Sure.
Uh, the first one is what is oneof the most common misconceptions
(06:20):
of leadership that you see?
I guess we can take it from liketwo sides in work and then also
on an individual personal level.
And then after that question, if I don'thave other questions pop up, I'll ask
the other question that I wanted to ask.
Perfect.
Let's do it.
So misconceptions about leadership.
In the work sense one of themisconceptions I think is that you
(06:44):
have to have a certain personalitytype style or way of moving in the
world to be an effective leader.
I think that there are key skillsassociated with leadership, the ability
to collaborate, to communicate to others,to hold space for others, have a high
level of empathy, and be strategic.
(07:05):
Those are skills that you can learn ifyou feel like they're, um, that you don't
have a skill in, in one of those areas.
But you don't have to be like this part.
You don't have to be likeSteve Jobs to be a leader.
You don't have to be, you know,like Michelle Obama to be a leader.
You can be a leader in your own way.
(07:27):
And they each have theirdifferent leadership styles.
Um, one is more, in my opinion, effectivethan the other, no shade, but in terms of
like, what leadership is at a human level,not just, can I get a specific result
at a specific time, but can I get us allthere in a way that is transformational,
(07:51):
both in the work that we're doingand to an individual personally.
That is deep leadership.
Big misconception would bethat you have to be a certain
way to be an effective leader.
And I fundamentally disagree with that.
Yeah, I would also agree.
I think.
That all I have the same concept as youlike, I believe that we are all leaders,
(08:12):
um, maybe, uh, what we've consumed orthe way, you know, the society is set up.
We were made to believe that we are not,which then kind of, mm, how do I say this?
It kind of strips us of, I don'tknow if I want to say strips us of
our power, but maybe it kind of,mm, puts us in a situation where we
(08:35):
think that we do not have choice.
Yes.
When I don't know ifthat's necessarily true.
Absolutely.
I mean, of course, withinlike, you know, systems of
oppression and all of that stuff.
Yeah.
That does exist, but then alsoat the same time, I do believe
there is choice to do something.
Don't know what thatis, but there is choice.
(08:55):
Yeah.
Yeah.
That there is always choice.
I love this.
You know, from knowing me that, youknow, I lean much more toward optimism
because hope or optimism is all we have.
Right?
Yeah.
|And so any situation that.
Would like allow us to feel like we area victim in this situation and that we
(09:22):
can't tap into personal power is one thatI would challenge directly for anyone.
So if, if you are feelingdisempowered, it means this place
might not be the right place for you.
The system was meant to make you feelthat way, but ultimately, you want to
get into a position place, um, way ofbeing that helps you to tap into your
(09:46):
own sense of leadership effectiveness.
And how do you say?
Um, like, as I think about it, likeownership, like that you, you have,
you can direct yourself and somesituations are the right place for you.
situations aren't.
Um, but ultimately youare always a leader.
(10:07):
Doesn't mean that youaren't ever a follower.
I want to make sure that that is clear,but there is not a moment that you're not
in, you can, that you can't tap into yourown leadership, whether that's at work or.
Outside of work.
Yeah.
Something that, um, one of my previouslife coaches taught me now y'all know
(10:28):
I've got, I've worked with therapistsand all the life coaches before.
We love coaches.
Her name is Nicole Cruz and she is a.
I believe a life and leadershipcoach now for, um, first and
second generation immigrant women.
Um.
Wonderful.
Something that she taught me was actuallytapping into radical responsibility.
Yes.
(10:49):
And that really shifted, um, my mindsetaround just like, yes, things happen.
Sometimes they are out of my control.
Yes, systems are built to make us feela certain way and to, you know, make
things harder and all of that stuff.
Um, but where can, like, where can Istep into my radical responsibility
(11:13):
for my own, like, well being?
Um, and I think that kind ofputs that power back to me to
be like, Oh, well, this sucks.
Like, I don't want to do this.
Like, why do I need to change?
Why do I need to like,you know, shift something?
But without doing that, I wouldjust be in my little spiral,
(11:34):
you know, petty party or no.
I don't know if it's a pettyparty, but it would be like a.
What are, what is it called whenyou just like cry to yourself?
I don't know.
I don't know.
Yeah, it's giving a little bit pity party.
Yeah.
Oh, yes.
I'm having my own little pity party.
Okay.
So another question I had, um, aroundall of this is, you know, we talked
(11:57):
about like the misconceptions on theinternet, I love referring to the internet
as a very valid source of information.
That was a joke, everyone.
Um, and I think also in lots ofleadership resources, at least
maybe the ones that I have read.
People talk about leadership likeempowerment, and do you think that
leadership is just about personalempowerment, or do you think it
(12:21):
could also mean something else?
Well, tell me more.
So what, what, I'm curious to hearfrom our internet, the internet,
our internet friends, what are theysaying it could be besides that?
Um, so another, I believe it's ShebaRufay, uh, that's the episode before you
(12:43):
guys, uh, she is, uh, another one of ourlong term clients and now turn friend.
Um, she's also a leadership consultant.
Coach.
I don't know if she wouldconsider herself a coach.
Um, but she talks about how, um, a lotof the times leadership development
in general, well, kind of focuseson like, just personal power.
(13:06):
So, you know, like making sure thateverybody steps into their radical
responsibility everybody talks about,Or, you know, you have choice and all of
that stuff, which I think is important.
Um, but something that I, I think shereally focuses on is, uh, community power,
which I think in, actually in one of yourframeworks that we talked about together
(13:28):
is actually bringing in community as well,because like your business or organization
or just like if in within your leadership,um, ties in, I think yours was yourself,
your team, the business and community.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Can you describe that more?
Yeah, absolutely.
(13:48):
So our framework, it's like we think aboutthis is like the personal transformation
is what leads to any sort oforganizational or systems transformation.
So at the center of our work will alwaysbe the individual, and it will always have
these elements of ownership, um, combinedwith things like well being, right?
(14:09):
That it starts with us, and then theaction that we take kind of blooms
out and has an impact on others.
So if we, in that way, the individualempowerment to your point about
radical responsibility, ourperspective around ownership or
personal transformation are critical.
They are the starting pointin so many ways for us.
(14:32):
And then we would say, okay, now, whatdoes that mean for how I lead this team?
How I lead this organization and howI show up as a leader in community.
They all come together to create thisspace where we are doing our best, right?
That we are doing our best work.
(14:53):
We are living our best lives.
We have a shared sense of connection andcommitment, but it does center around
like, what place am I starting from?
And like, what do I want to work on?
So the biggest goal for us is thatfolks will look at their individual
strengths, their ways of being inthe world and say, I am a leader and
(15:17):
I have something to contribute and Ican contribute it across these areas.
So even if I'm a part of community,I am contributing to that community,
my individual leadership, myperspective, my style, my strengths.
In a way that then makesthe community better.
(15:37):
I love that, and I totally agree too.
I do feel like no change, I mean if wewant to go big picture here, no change
can actually happen unless I believeindividuals start, kind of like, you
know, what you were saying, workingtowards, you know, understanding how
they fit in, what their perspectiveis, um, what their style is.
And then from there, I really likethe word that you used, blooms into
(16:01):
something that the community kindof like can flourish on as well.
Power grows and grows.
Absolutely.
But like any movement that we'veseen, any, even at a community
level movement, it it starts at anindividual level and goes from there.
And then, uh, the, I think sometimes wherethe disconnect is, is that an individual
(16:23):
might start, might want to have thattransformation or move things forward, and
then it gets stuck in some sort of way.
So rather that's by a limited beliefthat they have, rather they aren't
speaking out or connecting with otherswho can move the mission forward, but it
starts at an individual level and bloomsinto and it's connected to community.
(16:47):
I love that.
So talking all about leadership and youwere talking about, like, you know, there
are skill sets that one can learn, ummmmm,be a more effective leader, do you have,
what is like one of the biggest advantagesof leadership development for everyone?
Because I know that's something thatyou actually offer with your business
CoCreate Work, which we didn't name.
(17:08):
So naming it now.
Hey, that's okay.
Um, it's so funny.
I just have to agree becauselike our marketing partner and
you're like, you know what?
We should probably say thename of the business right now.
I love it.
It's never too late.
I know.
All right, perfect.
So the question that youhave for me, remind me?
Yes.
(17:29):
What is the biggest advantage ofleadership development for everyone?
Yeah, biggest advantage ofleadership development is that
it's personal development, right?
And we all want to, at our core, The,the, one of the biggest things for humans
after we meet our basic needs is that wewant to have impact if we are going to
(17:52):
have impact, then we want to work on ourdevelopment and it is a continuous cycle
kind of like, I think sometimes there'sa label place that like, oh, this is a
person who's into personal development.
Yeah.
And you know, everyone elseisn't into personal development.
(18:12):
Well, they're having some sort ofdevelopment, whether they're leading it
with intention or not is the question.
And whether they're growing or not is thequestion in a way that they want to grow.
So leadership development isabout personal development.
And so when you commit to developingyourself as a leader, then you're
committing to all the benefitsthat come along with that, right?
(18:33):
Which is that I'm going tohave more clarity about.
Who I am, what I stand for,what's important to me.
I'm going to know how I want torespond in difficult situations.
I'm going to be clear about my decisionmaking and frameworks that I apply
to my life and how I want to show upfor my team, my family, my community.
(18:54):
So leadership development is a part ofthat life development and ultimately.
We know that when we are engaged inlike development, personal growth,
we are getting better right thatwe are holding space for ourselves.
And that doesn't mean,and I want to say to that.
(19:15):
It doesn't limit, like it doesn't have alimited view of leadership development.
So leadership development isn'tonly working with a coach.
It isn't only reading a certainamount of books per year.
It isn't only waking up atfive and journaling, right?
There's all sorts of waysthat we develop into the next
step of our leadership, right?
The transition into our next stepof personal development and growth.
(19:38):
And so when you make a commitment to say,you know what, I'm specifically going
to work on my development as a leader,how I want to show up for community
team, family, whatever it is, thenyou are claiming right, that personal
transformation for yourself and you arealso being a mirror for others and a
(20:05):
vision for others about what's possible.
Yeah.
Oh, I love all of that.
And honestly, everything that youwere describing about like having a
framework for decision making, um,knowing how you want to show up,
uh, taking it back to what you saidbefore about like when you're lost
in the forest and like you have likethe boundaries or whatever it is.
(20:25):
I was just thinking about when I didn'thave those things and the immediate
emotion that came up in my body as youwere talking was this feeling of chaos,
like chaos and just personally anxietyfor me of like, like I'm just like my
mom used to say this all the time andShe would be like, I don't like running
(20:48):
around like a chicken without a head.
Like, I, and like without, I thinkleadership, like personal leadership
or just like personal development.
I think I was running around like achicken without a head because it's like
asking the same question again, like,what do you want to eat for dinner?
And you're just like, uh, Or you tryto watch, like, you want to watch
(21:09):
a movie on Netflix and you're like,what movie do you want to watch?
And then maybe you and your friendsor you and your partner or whomever is
like, um, uh, and then you spend like 45minutes scrolling on Netflix, 45 minutes
on Pinterest looking for a recipe.
That's the feeling that I feel likeI have multiplied when I don't have
(21:30):
like, You know, my clear valuesor when I don't have, you know, Oh
yeah, this is what I want to do.
Or if I don't have like, even just likesimple lists, I don't like that feeling.
Yeah.
Absolutely.
And I think most of us don't, right.
And we are, we also put ourselvesin a little bit of danger when we're
in that situation because then.
(21:51):
a direction we're taking isoften influenced by someone else.
Again, to my point about beinga follower, it doesn't mean that
there aren't spaces and places forus to follow the lead of others.
I follow leaders across many differentindustries on many different topics.
That is okay, but I know my internalPrinciples, guidance system, direction,
(22:17):
so I can say this is in alignment forme, or perhaps it was in alignment
and it's no longer in alignment.
So that is why it's important tocommit to this level of development,
because then you are always trackingwhat is my next right step, I don't
need to know the forever one, but thiscompass that I have within me, like my
(22:39):
leadership, um, we talk at co creatework a lot about like leadership brand,
uh, my leadership brand I am clear on.
So then that will help me in thedecisions I make about when, what
spaces I want to be a follower.
Who do I need to follow?
Who, you know, I know it's a joke on theinternet of like, I was influenced, right?
Like, who do I want to be influenced by?
(23:01):
And that I'm always able tocheck in and say, you know what?
It's time for me to switch, youknow, who I'm following or in which
ways that, uh, direction I'm going.
And I think it's moreimportant now than ever before.
Not because I'm not one ofthose people like this is the
most important time in history.
Uh, more than ever before because ofthe amount of information that is coming
(23:24):
at us on a consistent basis from socialmedia, from ads, from all the things.
So we really want to be grounded.
Yeah.
Oh, I totally, I totally get that.
Um, I think in a later episode inthis podcast, uh, we talk about
Media literacy and how importantmedia literacy, especially in
(23:45):
today's day and age, but yeah.
So thank you for sharingall of that on leadership.
I have more questions, so I want toget into systems and work because
I love talking about systems.
I know you love talking about systems.
What is one system you believe that peopleneed to have in their business if they
(24:06):
have one or In their personal lives?
And then I have more questions onsystems because I could honestly
talk about systems all the time?
Oh, I love systems.
Okay one system that you need to havein your business- Okay, I'm gonna name
the one that's most often overlooked.
Okay project management So a lot oftimes we'll have conversations with
(24:27):
folks and they'll say like, I don'tknow what's happening with our culture.
Like, we need to do more fun activities.
We need to connect with folks.
And then we'll do somethinglike a retrospective, which
just ask three questions, what'sworking, where are we stuck?
What might we do differently?
And the places that we're stuck is like.
I was working on a project and someoneelse was working on the same project.
(24:49):
I am not getting updates onthe things that I'm working on.
It's not clear what my role is.
Like all of those pieces andthose track in so many ways
back to project management.
So I'm just going to say, if you areusing lists, and Excel is the way,
and email is the way to manage things.
(25:09):
I want to ask you to step awayfrom that and identify a project
management system and use it.
I'm not paid by any, by anyproject management tool company.
But what I'm going to tell you is that inorder for us to work together effectively,
we have to have shared language, sharedunderstanding and shared practices.
(25:30):
A project management tool is a central wayfor you to set that up in your business.
Uh, and of course, with any toolthat we have, we have to have the
systems that support that tool.
How do we use it?
What do we mark it's done?
All the things.
And so some folks may be listening to thislike, Oh hell no, I don't want to do that.
But what I'm telling you, what I'm,I'm asking you to consider is that the
(25:56):
effort and time you put in to set thatup is going to pay back in dividends.
And we see that from everything fromretention to employee experience.
Joy at work and personal joyand experience for leaders.
So if you are even just one individualwho is partnered with someone
external, a vendor, even still,you should have project management.
(26:19):
So that is what I would encourage folks.
So that's the one.
Internal to work system,a system outside of work.
I'm curious to know what you'resaying, because I knew about
the project management one.
Yeah, you knew I was going to like,feel some type of way about that.
Okay, let's see.
So the personal system to use.
(26:45):
You know, I've been thinking a lot latelyactually about working agreements and like
this system, like setting up a system ofshared language within our households.
Oh, so one, one of the things someonehad posted something the other day.
And, uh, I said, Oh, this isgreat because like in our family,
(27:07):
we call each other, the TM.
So TM meaning for team.
And so our TM, you know, one of theimportant thing says is like, how
do we communicate and think aboutthings like when someone is quiet?
What does that mean?
You know, when someone issaying, Hey, I need space.
What does that mean?
(27:27):
If we like, how do wecheck in with each other?
Right?
Um, and we have a cadence oflike checking in on Sundays.
Um, we have two who, one incollege, one who lives in another
state and they call every Sunday.
So those are some of the agreements thatwe have in our family that basically
are like, here are the practices weuse and the shared, like language
(27:49):
share practices that we use to beable to work together effectively.
So I would say that that's asystem that we use all the time.
Another system that I personallyuse is energy management.
So I manage a chronic illness.
I have multiple sclerosis, and that meansthat, um, some people may, if, if you
(28:11):
have a chronic illness yourself or youha are associated with someone who does,
you may have heard the term of spoons.
Uh, so spoons is like the amountof energy that you have in a day.
And kind of once you're outtaspoons, you're outta spoons.
You, you don't get anymore.
And for me, it is very important that Ido a good job at managing those spoons.
(28:35):
So that's a personal system I use.
So I will wake up in the morningand I will do a body scan to say,
okay, how am I feeling today?
How many spoons do I think I'm startingwith and where can I allocate them?
It literally, Cassandra, took mea year after being diagnosed to
deeply understand energy management.
(28:57):
So I would think, okay, I canjust push through this thing.
Uh, typically pushing throughis not good for anybody.
And it's devastating for someonewho has a chronic illness.
And so.
It was like, okay, I can't understand.
Like I could do this yesterday,but I can't do this today.
And I didn't do that much today.
And I did more yesterdayand I didn't feel this way.
(29:19):
So managing that system aroundenergy management is critical.
Um, I personally think it wouldbenefit anybody to track your energy
and do energy management set up like aprocess where you think about spoons,
of course, not to take away from thechronic illness community, but just
(29:40):
in a way for us to deeply understandwhat wellbeing is for all of us.
Yeah.
I think I got kind of off track there.
No, no, no.
This is great.
Um, I love all of the thingsthat you just mentioned.
Okay.
So.
So just to recap for those who arelistening, um, for the business and
work, we talked about project management.
Project management.
(30:01):
Um, very important.
Please do not projectmanagement, oh, what?
I just turned it into a verb.
Please do not do projectmanagement in your inbox.
Um, I don't know how people do that.
Sometimes I talk to, uh, my sisterwho works in corporate and I was like,
Oh, how do you keep track of likethe projects that you have to do?
And she's like, Oh, Ijust checked my email.
And Excuse me?
(30:22):
Yeah.
You check your email?
And then, and often it's not even,so it often, it, it is just email and
not set up with any, I think someonecould figure out how to do it, but
often it isn't that level of intention.
It is just like going through emailboxes and, um, yeah, it's, it's not-
(30:43):
I've, I've worked with, um, some peoplewho have done project management in Slack.
I don't know about that one either.
Don't use slack.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I wouldn't either.
I would not.
Um, that's very difficult.
Especially if you don't pay for slackand then the messages disappear in 98.
If people want to email me,I'll tell them my project.
(31:03):
Yes.
Um, and then for personal, you mentioned,um, setting up working agreements
with like the people in your life.
Um, I really love that one.
I think that is something.
That I've, um, been working towardswith like my family, with my
sisters, my parents, with my friends.
(31:23):
I didn't actually havethe language to say that.
So thank you because now I'm like,Oh my gosh, it's so, it's so clear.
And then also the energy management.
So that's somethingthat I'm still learning.
I feel like I've been on this journey fora very long time and every day it changes.
Just like you shared.
So I love, I love all of these.
Okay.
So going into all of this kind oflike moving away from systems and
(31:44):
talking about work, I'm very curiousbecause I feel like there is a
battle on TikTok between millennials.
I'm not on Tik Tok I have a little secret.
I'm not on Tik Tok.
Probably not the best.
All right, my co owner who was alsoon the podcast, Chloe, it's kind of
in shock that I am not on Tik Tok.
(32:06):
I know.
It's probably for the better, honestly.
So I'm curious.
Um, so I'm a millennial,I believe, millennial,
zillennial, maybe, I don't know.
My younger sister is, I believe,Gen Z, so she was born in 2002,
um, and a common conversation I'mseeing on TikTok these days, uh, from
(32:27):
millennials and from Gen Z is thatpeople just don't want to work anymore.
Like, we just We just want to exist.
Like, the world is, youknow, the world is hard.
We just want to live cottagecore lives.
That was like a thing for a little bit.
Oh, what's cottagecore?
Cottagecore is like when you live inthe meadows and you basically wear like
(32:50):
you know those dresses and like clothes-
yeah!
-That you would wear.
You're just like vibing.
Okay.
Yeah.
And you have like a homestead and thenlike, okay, you live off the land.
Um, that's work.
That's work.
I know that is work.
Like that-
that's a lot of work.
Actually I just wannahighlight . Okay, go ahead.
Um, so.
So that is kind of what peopleare saying these days, like, they
just don't want to work anymore.
(33:11):
So what are your thoughts on that?
I would love to know.
Uh, what are your thoughts on that?
What do you think is causingpeople to not want to work?
And do you have a solution?
I mean, this is a blanket thing,so of course it depends on like
individuals and totally work and,you know, companies, but what would
you do to change the first thing?
(33:32):
It's like, uh, what's my thoughtsabout folks don't want to work,
you know, or what's the reason thatsome people don't want to work.
So I, you know, I actually don't agree.
That people don't want to work,you know, I, but I can't go
against what someone's is saying astheir personal experience, right?
If somebody is saying, I don't want towork, I can't say no, actually you do.
(33:54):
I wouldn't say that, but I think thereis a little bit more of a focus on
people don't want to work in parenthesesthan is the actual truth of it, right?
That and as human beings, it isimportant to us to have impact.
So people will challenge thisidea of like, folks don't have a
(34:15):
purpose or purpose isn't important.
There is not- people wantto make a difference.
We all want to make adifference in our own way.
And that is okay.
I think what it is a little bit is thatit's like, well, I want people to want
to make a difference or have an impactin the way I want them to have an impact.
(34:38):
Right.
So people are tired of organizationstaking advantage of them, not paying
them appropriately for their labor,um, not allowing them to move amazing
ideas forward, not allowing, helpingthem to grow and try new things, not
allowing them to have influence right?
From a systemic perspective.
Of course, we talked about the individualpower as well, but organizations have
(35:03):
not transitioned effectively intothe new, like the future of work and
what people want work to look like, Ithink people have always wanted work
to look like this and the org andsome organizations did that and some
didn't, but now back to our point aboutthe individual lead into community.
The community of people who aresaying, Hey, I'm not going to do
(35:26):
like this work where I'm not havingan impact anymore is significant.
So then that makes a larger numberof people saying, Hey, this needs
to change and we won't stand for it.
So, you know, we talk to peopleall the time who are like, they
take a sabbatical or they're offfor a year or something like that.
(35:47):
We actually work with organizations tohelp their founders be able to take.
Time off one of our clients tookthree months off this summer.
And without a doubt,people are like, I'm ready.
I'm back.
I want to be connected.
I want, I want to do this work.
And that's not just folkswho are founders, right?
(36:07):
So we want to have impact.
So if we change the word from workto impact, I think we would all
agree that yes, we all want to haveimpact and we want to be in places
that can enable that impact, or wewant to do that impact on our own.
So I really challenged the ideathat there is a huge group of
people who don't want to work.
(36:29):
Like we talked about earlier, uh,about the folks on the homestead
that like, that's a lot of work andthat's a lot of work and that work
will impact maybe just their family.
But also I would be curious how many ofthose folks who started the homestead
have the supplies and things they needfor their family who don't then go
(36:50):
on and supply another family or whodon't then invite people to follow on
their journey or learn how to do it.
That is work, right?
That is work.
That is impact.
So I actually, at a macro level,don't buy into this idea that
people don't want to have impact.
They do um, it's just thatwork and impact have not been
(37:12):
synonymous and they should be.
Hmm.
Oh, I love this.
So I think then, this kind ofreminded me of this movie I watched.
Oh, I cannot remember the name,but my partner showed it to me.
It was about this family who the motherpasses away, and then the dad raises
all of the children In the woods.
(37:32):
I really wish I knew what thatmovie was, but he like raises
all the kids in the woods.
They're all homeschooled.
They do not interact withlike quote unquote normal
society and all of that stuff.
And in one of the scenes.
one of his daughters goes,Oh, that's interesting.
And the dad is like,interesting is a lazy word.
(37:53):
Um, it's like when somebodyasks you, how are you doing?
You're like, Oh, I'm good.
That's like a lazy response.
Um, that's like a blanket thing thatkind of covers, I think, what people
actually want to say and which connectingit back to your point, I feel like when
you were making the differentiationbetween like impact and like work or.
Um, or that it needs to be synonymousor that maybe it's not that
(38:13):
people don't want to work anymore.
It's that people are fed upor we are fed up with doing
work that doesn't make impact.
Um, or that we are we don'twant to do work that it
continuously exploits us anymore.
Um, but of course saying that I think isscarier than saying, oh, I don't want to
(38:33):
work anymore because I could say I'm good.
Or I could say, Oh, that's interesting.
Or I could say, I don'twant to work anymore.
But the reality is.
I have to really get clear on it, which isI don't want to do work like this anymore.
I love it.
Absolutely.
I a thousand percent agree with this.
(38:54):
Right?
Because then once yousay it like that, um-
you have to do something.
Yeah.
Yeah.
You have to, you have to dosomething, you have to take action.
Um, and to your point,you have to get clear.
And sometimes that deeper diveinto what is really happening
for me feels inaccessible.
(39:14):
And sometimes it can feel inaccessiblebecause they are in a place where
they're doing a lot of work.
But not having a lot of impact.
So it, they don't even have thespace to, to think about it.
Yeah.
Hmm.
All good things.
I don't have answers.
Um, but these are just like thingsthat I'm like, Oh, where else have I
(39:35):
been lazy with my language describingsomething that I don't like.
That, I have a deeper thought about.
Yeah.
I love that.
I think it's a good reflection.
And also from an energy managementperspective, you take that shortcut
for a reason and you don't always haveto go in and make yourself crystal
(39:55):
clear, but when it's time to make itcrystal clear for yourself is I think
what you're saying is like, okay,I'll make the commitment to do that,
Yeah.
Which actually in one of the previousepisodes we talked about, um, with
one of our guests, Isa, uh, we talkedabout committing to yourself and kind
of what you were just saying, likewhen you have the energy time space,
(40:15):
um, to do it, I mean, you can't committo all the things because you just
can't, but when you have that, thenit's kind of saying, okay, I commit to
this to create change or I commit tothis because I want to get to X, Y, Z.
So like this year I said, Oh,I'm going to commit to getting
a Spanish driver's license.
That was a lie.
So, but I, I felt a lot of tensionand frustration not having a
(40:37):
Spanish driver's license this year.
Totally.
So next year, um, I've already kindof started thinking about, okay,
it's not that I don't want to drive.
I am worried about driving in adifferent country, but I have more
tension and frustration than excusesat this point because I'm tired of my
own shit, but I need to start creatingthat change to make space to study,
(41:00):
to take lessons, to do things sothat I can actually get this license.
Anyways.
Okay.
That is about my own personal strugglewith not getting a license in Spain.
So I do want to dive into.
What it's like for you to live with andrun a business with a chronic illness.
Uh, you mentioned before thatyou have multiple sclerosis.
(41:22):
What is something that most people don'trealize about running a business and
living a life, uh, with a chronic illness?
Yeah, I, you know, the, I was diagnosedin 2020 and each month day since then
has really been an unfolding and adeeper understanding for me and an
(41:43):
understanding also of like what myperspective in life was like before
being diagnosed, not just how I waspersonally and what my energy was like,
but also how I interacted with others.
And the amount of kind of ableismthat goes along with like, you
know, do, do, do go, go, go.
(42:03):
And the lack of flexibility and tolerancewhen people aren't showing up that way.
Um, and so it has really beena learning, a deep learning for
me and unfolding for me about.
Chronic illness, what it means, howmany people are actually impacted by
chronic illness is significant, about 60percent of people in the United States
(42:25):
alone are impacted by chronic illness.
And so it has continued to bea journey of learning for me.
One of the things that's been mostbeneficial is learning about energy
management and not just applying my-that for myself, but I'm applying
that in our business and how we worktogether and center and well being for
(42:46):
us as an organization and talking toour clients about well being and energy
management and things like stress as well.
And so all of those, I think fundamentallythe way I think about work, the way I
move in the world around work, the, thework that I do in the world has been
(43:06):
changed as a, as a result of being someonewho was diagnosed with chronic illness.
But it also took me a littlebit of time to make a term.
And that term was like, okay, Ican't do what I wanted to do anymore.
And now I just have to have amuch smaller dream and it took me
until this year to realize thatthat didn't need to be the case.
(43:27):
And so that has been a bigtransition for me this year.
Wow.
So then talking about like work andhow now you are centering well being
for, uh, co create work and thenalso helping your clients do that.
How do you think small businessesor larger corporations organizations
(43:47):
can show up for their teams orpartners, collaborators, clients
who are impacted by chronic illness?
So the first thing is that peoplehave to be able to communicate
that they have a chronic illness.
I mean, I'm in a lot of support groupsand all of that, and I constantly
see that people put leaders, folks,on notice that they are managing
(44:12):
a chronic illness, and then theywere taken out of interview loops.
They were rescinded job offers.
They were treated differently atwork, which all are illegal behaviors.
So I just named that to say, that'sprobably not our listeners here,
but I want to start with that verybasic premise is that that is illegal
(44:33):
behavior and discriminatory behavior.
I think the 2nd thing for us to thinkabout is that if we are able bodied
and we don't manage an illness is tothink about the perspective of others.
So this deep perspective taken of if I ama leader, I don't have a chronic illness,
what do I need to know, understand aboutpeople who have chronic illness so that I
(44:56):
can then create the type of culture thatsupports people with chronic illness.
And I say that to say, because thereof course are static steps that
everybody can take, but I also wantyou to be thinking about your specific
industry, business organization,and what that would mean for you.
And so in order to understand that youneed to know, you know, what it's like
(45:19):
for folks who have chronic illness.
So seek to understand, um, isa really important practice
and then the other things.
So it's about items like how dowe manage leave and any policies
associated with leave and time off?
How do we also create more autonomy andflexibility inside of our organization?
(45:42):
So there shouldn't be any barriers tosomeone needing to attend a doctor's
appointment, go and take care of aloved one that we should have a process
in place where people can communicatethe need, do what they need to do, and
then have flexibility to do the workthat they need to do in the world.
Right.
We're missing.
And I'm not trying to makea business case because.
(46:06):
It, this is something that we justshould do, but it is a huge miss for
organizations and businesses to missthe talent of all of these, you know,
all the amazing people in the world,because they are being discriminatory
or not making, not intentionallymaking space to bring people in.
(46:26):
So I'll just say that.
So autonomy and flexibility.
Our policies are really critical.
Perspective taking isalso really critical.
Remove the barriers that people willhave in place and make it easy for
folks to be able to communicate what'sgoing on with them and what the needs
are so we can build in the type ofsolutions that would work for everyone
(46:48):
for folks who are managing an illness.
to folks who are on parental leaveto folks who, you know, need any
other birth to take any other break.
I think all of those pieces are critical.
There's a laundry list, but I justwant to, I think if we start there,
that it gives us sort of a wave offorward movement, and then we can
(47:11):
build on, uh, more specific practicesthat'll continue to, to be helpful.
I love that.
I feel like, yeah, as somebody who doesnot have a chronic illness and I consider
myself able bodied, but if you all listento the first episode with my partner
Mario, he does have a chronic illness.
He has an autoimmune disease and Ididn't ever take into consideration
(47:37):
prior to dating him because I never knew.
Um, but now that I think heis also more open with his,
uh, autoimmune disease then.
We can also do likeunderstand each other more.
Exactly.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It takes a lot of perspectiveshift to understand.
And, and I will say like, if somebody whomanages a chronic illness, there is also
(48:01):
sometimes self right ableism that I have,I'm like, I should be able to do this.
I should push through.
And so knowing that, you know,just starting from the mindset of.
Believing people of like, ifsomeone is saying, Hey, you know,
I need to shift this projector whatever, trust that right.
(48:22):
It ultimately as leaders, we all needto improve our sense of trust in others.
And I know people saythat trust is earned.
I tend to start from aperspective of trust.
And then if things happen, youknow, I can make adjustments.
Yeah.
Mm.
So many things, but I have more questions.
Like the last two questionsbefore we wrap up.
(48:42):
The first one is, do you thinkthere's a nuanced conversation
that we're not having enough of?
And also, um, any last journaling promptsfor folks before we wrap up this session?
Nuanced conversationwe're not having enough.
I think we talked about it a lot today.
I'm, I'm a work nerd.
Like I think about work all the time.
(49:03):
I think about the future of work.
I think about all the things.
So one of the things that is, that I sayall the time is that work changes lives.
Okay.
And we are not talking about that enough.
We, this is.
You know, the conversations aboutpeople don't want to work, to the
common conversations about authenticity,to the conversations about chronic
(49:26):
illness, all center around thisidea that work is impactful in
people's lives and it changes lives.
And so if we start to have theseconversations, not just from what's
good for a business, but like what isgood for humanity, meaning that like
impact and work is, is one of thoseis like a critical piece of that.
(49:50):
And that if we can buildtransformational work, it will have
impact, not just on that individual,but potentially for generations.
So I, we should be havingthat conversation more.
Journal and prompts.
I, you know.
I have to say this and admit it.
I'm not a big journal girlie.
Um, but one of the things thatI do a lot is just reflection.
(50:15):
And so anytime that folks can takea beat and say, What happened today?
What were the thoughts and feelingsthat I had as I went through the
day and reflect on that and getdeeper understanding of themselves.
I think that that will bereally, really impactful.
I mean, it's, it's beenlife changing for me.
(50:36):
Clarity is one of the things thathas driven my success and driven.
Uh, my continued like goal and, youknow, goals and planning in the world.
So anything that brings clarity,I think is worth writing about.
I love that.
Thank you so much Lakita for joining.
(50:58):
I am going to link all of yoursocials in the show notes.
Of course you are.
Yes.
It's at co create workand also @LakitaMWilliams.
For all those who are interested.
And thank you again, La'Kita, thisconversation has been so enlightening.
So amazing.
Yeah, it's been awesome.
Thank you.
It was a pleasure to spend time with you.
Thank you for doing thispodcast and being a leader.
(51:20):
Thank you for your leadership.
And it was great to talk to you.
Thanks.
If you're hearing this message, that meansyou made it to the end of this episode.
Yay.
Thanks for listening.
If you enjoyed this episodeand thought to yourself, whoa.
It's me.
I'd love if you could share this withothers, post about it on social media,
and or leave a rating and review.
(51:42):
Don't forget to subscribe too.
Want to hang out with me inother areas of the internet?
You can follow me on Instagram,@CassandraTLe for brand message
and content marketing tips andresources, check out my business
at @TheQuirkyPineappleStudio.
Thanks again and seeyou in the next episode.
Stay fierce fam!
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