November 26, 2024 • 37 mins
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EPISODE DESCRIPTION
Episode 85: Matt and Taylor are joined by Derek Funk, B.A. CRA, P. App.. Derek is the Managing Partner at Lawrenson Walker Appraisers Okanagan from Kelowna, BC, with a background in real estate sales as well as construction. Founded in 1992, Lawrenson Walker Appraisers are leaders in the field of residential real estate appraisal and consulting, and currently serve locations in Alberta and BC.
Derek is here to discuss: → Bringing Lawrenson Walker to the Okanagan and becoming local experts, the benefits of an appraiser being approved by many lenders, and navigating tight timelines with clear communication and customer service. → Transparency, or lack thereof, in appraisal fee structures, appraisals vs assessments, and GST on new builds. → The best and worst things you can do that impact your house value, the cost-hinderance of new builds, adding value with suites, and the current difference in a pre-sale vs a finished developments value. → Current issues with legal files & up-zoning, the effects of the STR legislation, and what's in store for the 2025 market.
Lawrenson Walker Appraisers Website: www.lawrensonwalker.com
Lawrenson Walker Appraisers Instagram: @lawrensonwalkerappraisers
Lawrenson Walker Apprasiers Okanagan LinkedIn: @LawrensonWalkerAppraisersOkanagan
Derek Funk's Email: derek@lawrensonwalker.com
Derek Funk's LinkedIn: @DerekFunk
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Matt Glen's Website: www.mattglen.ca
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Welcome back to the Colonial RealEstate Podcast.
(00:01):
I'm your mortgage broker host,Taylor Atkinson.
And I'm your real estate agenthost, Matt Klan.
What's happening today, Taylor?Hey, I was at a lender
presentation yesterday and theybring in a CMHC rep, like awesome
information they're providing atthese events.
I'm gonna ask you a skill testingquestion.
I would never have gotten thisright.
It is like, it blew my mind.
It absolutely blew my mind.
So CMHC data across Canada, whatdo you think the average age is
(00:24):
for a first-time homebuyer?blew my mind.
homebuyer?Okay, I saw something like this.
It was like way older than youthought.
It was like 55, right, orsomething?
So it was 36 across Canada, 39 inBC, which to me is like, yeah,
pretty mind-blowing.
Okay, so that's the age of the
first-time homebuyer.
Okay, so that's the age of the
first-time homebuyer.
Yeah.
Okay, because it was like theaverage age, that's the one I saw
was like of a regular home buyer,it was like 50.
(00:46):
Yeah, so like somebody justgetting in the market, which is
pretty wild.
And then 20% of people buying
their first home have a gifteddown payment, which I actually
thought that would probably behigher.
Yeah, I would think that too,yeah.
And then the collective householdincome for those first-time
homebuyers you know one householdunit whether a couple or solo was
144 000 which again i thought waslike fairly high so pretty
interesting data out there butwe're projected to like see more
(01:09):
first-time homebuyers in themarket with some of the programs
and incentives that are coming outand younger they didn't really
specify on the age, I wouldassume.
But yeah, I mean, we do have ayounger population coming in a
little bit, but yeah, someinteresting stuff.
Today we have on Derek Funk fromLawrence and Walker, residential
appraisal company throughout BCand Alberta.
I work with these guys a lot.
(01:29):
They're awesome.
Yeah.
Just very straightforward,
transparent, quick, goodcommunication.
One thing I'll say that's reallyannoying to me about the appraisal
process, and this is not anythingto do with Derek, but just to
explain to the listener andclients is most of the time we
have to order a blind appraisal.
(01:50):
So it's arm's length.
You can't get involved, manipulateit, whatever.
It's not like I can just pickDerek's company all the time
unless it has to go direct to alender.
Part of that process is basicallyjust working with someone you
don't really know.
And a lot of clients come back to
me and ask me for the report.
We can't provide that.
It's technically property of thelenders.
So again, just something forpeople to keep in mind.
(02:14):
Like, are you allowed to tell themwhat they came back what came back
with for value?Yeah.
So we can discuss that.
We just can't provide the report.
There's like a liability there andyou're legally not allowed to.
So just a part of the educationprocess, like these guys are a
really good resource and like anecessary part of the buying and
selling process that everyone hasto kind of just let them do their
job and not try and get it doeskind of make sense that you can't
(02:38):
just pick the appraiser all thetime although you can with some
like is it certain lenders thatdon't does kind of make sense that
you can't just pick the appraiserall the time although you can with
some like is it certain lendersthat don't let you do that certain
lenders they have an approved listand you're allowed lenders they
have an approved list and you'reallowed to pick that approved list
the appraisal still has to be sentdirectly to the lender.
But yeah, the blind orderingsystem is pretty frustrating.
Yeah.
One of the takeaways I really
liked, which Derek said on theshow, was opportunities in the
market.
(02:58):
And this kind of seems simple, but
he took it one step further.
He was like, don't buy the nicest
house on the street, but alsodon't overspend on your property
if it is not going to get thevalue back from it that you're
looking for an investment so he'slike you know don't spend twenty
thousand dollars on a fridge ifyou know the house shouldn't have
a twenty thousand dollar fridge sothat's probably like a common
(03:18):
thing he sees in Kelowna I wouldimagine but I'd imagine that too
yeah people like People like theirthat too yeah people like People
like their stuff.
Yeah.
So actually full disclosure, Beckand I had a house downtown that
just like look like one of theother houses, but we just
renovated the shit out of it.
So when he walked into this house,
it was just like totally did notfit at all.
(03:41):
It definitely was probably who hewas talking about with that one.
So. I mean, if you're going tolive there for a while, for sure.
But if you're looking for anappraiser to come in and be like,
oh, yeah.
If you're doing it for the value,
probably not great.
If you're looking to sell it or
not great.
If you're looking to sell it or
refi, like he's probably kind ofbetween a rock and a hard place
being like, I can't add it.
add it.
The most annoying part about mineis we ended up selling to a
(04:04):
developer who's going to like tearit down.
So it's like, okay.
Yeah, you should have put in the
contract like comes with no fridgeno appliances i was going to do
that when i was going to do thatwhen we leave like take the
cabinets take the fridge take theappliances everything but uh he's
got to rent it out for a few yearshe's renting it out so couldn't
even really do that so we enjoyedit while we had it yeah it's fun
to we had it yeah it's fun to dothose projects we're actually
(04:25):
getting a appliance package rightnow i'll say yeah we went around a
bit man trail appliances there's aguy named dave there legend we
were in there for like two and ahalf hours i thought i was in
there for 20 minutes the amount ofknowledge like i was blown away
how smart dishwashers are now heknows everything man if you guys
are looking to get appliances gosee dave at trail he was like
unreal that's a nice plug we'renot not getting a $20,000 fridge.
I'll say that.
Dave wasn't good enough then.
Well, he was too good.
No, He probably said the same
(04:46):
thing.
Yeah.
All guys.
right, This like every episode, is
sponsored episode, by Century 21Assurance Realty.
We are growing.
We're growing north.
We're growing east.
Basically all over the interior.
So if you're a new agent or anagent looking for a change, give
us a Or call.
if you're a buyer or seller
looking for an agent, call Century21 Assurance Realty.
All right.
Thanks a Enjoy lot.
the episode.
Okay, Derek, welcome to the the
(05:08):
show.
Thanks for joining us, man.
Yeah, thanks for having me.
Yeah, so we like to start our show
just kind of what's your perfectFriday look like?
What's productive for you?Gives you energy leading into the
weekend?And yeah, what do you do for fun?
(05:28):
Yeah, so we Oh, well, it dependson the season.
But I mean, a perfect Friday fromthe business standpoint, I always
feel Friday afternoons are busiestday of the week, you know, meet
all our clients deadlines, a lotof subject removals.
As you know, the appraisal isusually the last piece of the
puzzle to get the deal done.
And it's usually rushed,
especially if they're unsure ofthe lender they're using.
So it's always a bit of a rush toget some of these deadlines
completed.
Successful Friday to me and a
productive one is just meeting allof our clients' deadlines by that
(05:49):
5pm cutoff.
Usually, we've got a pretty large
admin team, so they usually stickaround if we know we're going to
be a little delayed.
At least we can get the report in.
They can upload it.
If our clients need a verbal and
just need a bit of peace of mind,and I know the value is going to
hit the purchase price, I'llusually reach out, give them a
(06:10):
heads up that the purchase priceseems fine here.
So as long as we meet our clients'deadlines, usually if it's a
purchase, I'm pretty happy on aFriday and our clients are happy
and we can move on into theweekend.
to get some of these Yeah, I willsay on that note, you guys have
been great communication-wise.
And the deal flow basically goes
from Matt, who probably has nostress, to offload and some of
that down to the broker and thendown to the appraiser.
(06:32):
Yeah, the timelines just gettighter and tighter.
So yeah, apologies from everyonein the industry.
It's better than the better thanthe COVID days because, you know,
I thought that market was going totank and it did the complete
opposite.
And we just couldn't keep up, you
know, in 2021, 2022, it just likeeverybody in this industry, we
were overworked and I would getcalls from our clients saying,
where's the appraisal?I'm like, well, you haven't even
ordered it yet.
Well, I need it today.
(06:52):
I'm like, well, you got to submitthis in.
So it's always good when ourclients reach out ahead of time.
They'll either email me direct ortext me for any of the Okanagan
files and give me a heads up.
And at least I can reach out to
the appraiser and say, hey, hereyou go.
This is coming through.
Reach out for an appointment right
now.
They need this by end of day or
(07:12):
tomorrow morning.
At least we can get started on the
file and ensure we can reach thatdeadline.
So that's one thing we do atLawrence & Walker is communicate a
lot with our broker clients.
That's what we focus our business
a lot on is just communicationfrom start to finish from the
file.
It's a long process actually from
when we get the order, from whenthe payment link sent from when
the appointment's out, you whenthe payment booked,, link sent
(07:33):
know, out from when theappointments booked from the
second review process that weoffer with our firm, just to
ensure that everything's correct.
There's a lot that goes into these
reports.
So there's quite a bit that
actually goes in the appraisalprocess that, you know, is kind of
forgotten about.
So we've got a solid team.
So it really helps.
Can you kind of tell us a little
bit about Lawrence and Walker?obviously I know who you You guys
have Like, been great for me inthe we've are.
(07:56):
got a solid team so it reallyhelps can you kind of tell us a
little bit about lawrence andwalker like obviously i know who
us a little bit about Lawrence andWalker?
obviously I know who you You guyshave Like, been great for me in
the we've are.
got a solid team so it really
helps can you kind of tell us alittle bit about lawrence and
walker like obviously i know whoyou are you guys have been great
for me in the okanagan is italberta bc you guys cover now yeah
(08:19):
so the company started yeah so thecompany started back in the 90s my
partner lee walker took it over awhile back now and we were mainly
based in vancouver fraser valleyand then our other partner
chantelle opened up an office inCalgary over in Alberta, and she's
expanded out to Edmonton and nowLethbridge.
And I was in Vancouver at thetime.
And I said, we have to expand thisbusiness more.
So he said, well, why don't we goto the Okanagan?
I actually brought that up to him.
So we came up here and we
purchased the company up here overfive years ago now.
So I made the move with the familyfrom Olympic Village.
So never look back.
What a sacrifice, eh?
For company, man.
Wine country.
You really had to take one for theteam there.
Yeah.
So one thing is that we have done
a lot of expansion in the last sixyears, but we do have managers and
partners in all of our majorlocations that are experts in all
(08:40):
these locations.
So if you've got an Okanagan
appraisal coming through, you'regoing to be dealing with me who
actually lives in that region andfollows the market trends, knows
what's going on in the community,and has a really good sense of
idea what's going on in the markethere.
So if you go to Alberta, you'regoing to be speaking and dealing
with Chantel who's from there,lives there.
(09:01):
So you're not getting someone fromToronto that's, you know, working
on a file that doesn't really knowthe market.
So, you know, you're in goodhands, whatever region you're in,
because you're dealing with anexpert in that territory.
Nice.
Yeah.
And Yeah.
And can you pull back the curtain
a little bit in terms of likebeing on an approved list?
Because it's not like you can justdo your four-year degree, get the
(09:22):
appraiser certificate, and thenyou're good to go, right?
You need to be registered withcertain lenders and have the
capability to be doing certainproperties.
So I remember one of the firstones I used you guys with was on
raw land up in Big White, whichnot very many people had the
ability to do.
So what's kind of the process and
benefit of using somebody that hasaccess or approval for most of the
(09:43):
lenders?I think it's just in the industry
for so long, it's just in theindustry for so long, like Lee has
been, and building theserelationships with the lenders,
the private lenders, the MIGlenders, and just building a
trusted relationship and showingthem we know what we're talking
about because we have been doingthis for many years now.
We've got very experienced peopleon our team.
And it's taken a long time to geton the approved list for...
We work with the majority of thelenders across the board here.
(10:05):
We have great relationships withthem.
We talk to them on the phone.
It's always good for our clients
as well because if they orderappraisal and they need to move
from one lender to another, likelythey don't have to reorder the
appraisal because we're likely onthat other lenders approved list.
So it's not easy to get on theselists, but I think it's just a lot
of trust and experience.
And that's the reason why we're on
(10:26):
the majority of all lenders acrossthe country.
country.
Yeah.
I'll point out another thing usingyou guys.
So generally, like for certainlenders, we have to use a blind
ordering system software so wedon't have access.
But I find the hardest part aboutthat is the client gets a payment
notification and usually it'll besuper low for some appraisers just
to kind of, I don't know, win thework or that's how they bid it.
(10:48):
And then like it doubles the verynext day.
And then you have to explain tothe client like, ah, yeah, the fee
just went up because it's a luxuryhome or it has market rents or
whatever.
Yeah.
You guys seem to consistently havemore transparency and like, here's
the fee, you know, it is what itis right from the start.
So yeah, I just appreciate youguys doing that.
you know it is what it is rightfrom the start so yeah just
(11:08):
appreciate you guys doing thatyeah you know a few years back up
here in the okanagan i set all ofour fees for every location where
there was going to is what it isright from the start so yeah just
appreciate you guys doing thatyeah you know a few years back up
here in the okanagan i set all ofour fees for every location where
(11:30):
there was going to be like atravel charge down to a so use
because it's a bit of a drive fromcolonna so i wanted to post like
our actual fee that you're goingto be charged without tacking on
the travel after the fact so iknow a lot of the blind ordering
systems, how they work, you know,it might just get selected by a
cheaper firm, but our rates thatare posts on solidify or whatever,
(11:52):
you know, AMC it is, you know,that's the fee it's going to be,
like you say, unless it's going tobe some kind of high end luxury
waterfront, you know, then we kindof base the fee on like, you know,
the amount of hours it's going totake to actually get that file
done.
And if it is more complex
property, I know we try to getappraisals done within 24 hours of
viewing the property, butsometimes those do take longer.
And I don't mind if we do take anextra day or two to just ensure we
get the right value, right?It's more important to get the
right value rather than just pushthese appraisals out.
So yeah.
Yeah.
And we'll give our clients a headsyou if up, it's going know, our
clients a heads you know, up, ifit's going to take a bit longer,
(12:13):
you know, we're doing our best,but you know, some just take
longer, especially here in theOkanagan, there's not a lot of
cookie cutter properties and verylimited sales on a lot of complex
properties on acreages andwaterfront homes.
So they just typically take longerand just take more time.
Yeah.
And do you guys do residential and
commercial appraisals?We're just residential Yeah.
do you guys do residential andcommercial appraisals?
We're just residential firm.
Lawrence Walker is a residential
firm.
Yeah.
(12:33):
Interesting.
When would clients use you Yeah.
Interesting.
When would clients use you outside
of a purchase?Like, you know, obviously I'm
going to facilitate ordering it,but if somebody wanted to do like
a private sale between familymember or separation agreement,
that kind of stuff, like where doyou guys provide value outside of
like the lending channel?I mean, it's the same thing.
It's just, you know, if it's aprivate request, it's the same as
a, you know, obviously the purposeis different than a purchase, but
(12:54):
I would say lately, the majorityof our files have been refinances,
especially in these marketconditions.
So, you know, we do get a fewlegal files.
The issue with legal files I'vebeen finding lately is with all
the upzoning now where they wantthe actual true value if it's a
legal file now, which we can do ahypothetical appraisal on, you
know, a potential lot that has,you know, future development
potential.
Like, you know, in Kelowna South
North, a lot of this MF1 zoningmight allow up to six units.
(13:14):
And as residential appraisers, wecan only appraise properties up to
four units.
So if it's for residential
lending, we will reach out to ourclient or the lender and say, hey,
are you okay with a hypothetical,you know, appraisal value without
taking in that future developmentpotential into consideration,
which is fine if they want that.
But if they want like, you know,
if it's a legal file forseparation, they're gonna want to
know what's this actually worth ifI can put six or eight units on
(13:35):
this lot now, right?If I actually go through the
development process.
So we have been turning down those
files now because it's just out ofour scope now from the residential
side.
That has been a bit of an issue
for those types of files.
If it's a private request, same
thing goes.
If it's not for residential, we
kind of have to refer those out tomaybe a commercial appraiser now
that can give them the true valuethat can take on.
(14:00):
I mean, all the UC5 zoning mayallow up to six stories now.
We do a few of those, but if it'sa private request, it's best that
a commercial appraiser takes thatfile on now.
It's interesting.
Maybe we can talk a little bit on
new construction for just singlefamily then.
You guys work in that space?Oh yeah.
Yeah.
(14:20):
We do a lot of new new
construction, but I do feel latelybuilders have been holding off
building as much as they were justwith the lot prices are pretty
expensive now.
off building as much as they were
just with the lot prices arepretty Now, expensive.
the cost to build is expensive.
And once you build out, you know,
you buy your lot for a 750 with alake view, you build a one and a
(14:45):
half million dollar home, peoplearen't even willing to pay that
price now after it's built.
So yeah, well, I guess that's what
I I guess that's what I was gonnaask is like you take two
approaches, right?Like, you know, the cost to build
and then comparables for themarket.
Is it a pretty tough conversationright now to be like, yeah, these
plans look great.
The future value for comparables
is probably going to land you at$2 million, but they're spending
(15:06):
two and a half to build.
I've seen that a lot lately.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And I mean, budgets are all overthe place.
It depends who's actually doingthe work where we'll get really
low budget.
I'll tell our client, you can't
build this house for 500,000.
So we kind of have to go with what
the market's actually going tocost, right?
So we know what builders charge incertain locations.
So we kind of already know likewhat the price per square foot is
(15:30):
going to be to build that kind ofhouse and what a pool actually is
going to cost.
It's not just going to cost you
50,000, likely over a hundredthousand if it's a nice pool,
right?But lately, I have seen a lot of
budgets coming in very high andthe comparables just don't support
what it costs to build anymore.
So they do get a little tricky.
It is tough for a builder.
We're not even talking about
(15:50):
carrying costs for a year at highinterest rates, right?
Well, yeah, I'm curious.
Do you have like a rule of thumb
right now or something genericthat you've kind of seen, like is
the cost to build 10 to 15% moreexpensive than comparables right
now?Like I'm just trying to wrap my
head around how builders canjustify continuing to build, which
obviously a lot aren't right now,but a lot have slowed down.
It depends when they bought theirwhen they bought their lot, right?
Because a lot of the profits inthere, if they got in when it was
cheap, but a lot of the lots have,you know, over doubled in value
(16:14):
now.
So, you know, if they bought five
or 10 lots at a good time, youknow, now they're sitting pretty
good because all their profitsstill there.
Right.
But if you have to go buy a lot
now, and there's not a lot outthere right now and then it build,
it not just, a lot out there rightnow, and then build, it really
doesn't make sense right nowbecause people just aren't pulling
the trigger on a lot of thathigh-end stuff when it's over,
(16:36):
say, 2 million.
Everything is just sitting there
right now.
So I think it's just a waiting
game right now.
So I think the market will turn in
the spring, though.
now.
Yeah, well, what have you seen inthe 2024 market?
And what do you think is going tohappen in 2025?
Crystal ball.
Oh, easy question.
No, it's super easy.
You know, this question a lot,
right?Like, is it a good time to get the
(16:57):
appraisal done?It's all based on interest rates,
right?I mean, people just can't afford
or qualify, but you know, they aretrying to improve things for
first-time home buyers and themarket in general.
So I think rates are trending theright way now.
Hopefully on December 11th, we seeanother drop here.
But like you guys know, it's veryseasonal here in the Okanagan, but
I don't feel like the real estatemarket has followed its normal
(17:19):
trend where January, February isslow.
Springtime, it goes crazy.
Sum it goes crazy summertime slows
down fall it picks up again winterit drops again but lately after
covid it's just been all over theplace like yes we've been
extremely busy and our slowesttimes usually in the past right so
i guess what's made refinancesyeah that'd make a lot of sense
yeah so 2024 in the beginning wasstill slow because rates were
still high, obviously.
Things are improving.
I'm noticing that right aroundthat million mark, a lot of buyers
(17:41):
can still qualify, especiallyhomes with suites, pretty
desirable.
But anything over that 1.5 mark,
it's still pretty slow.
I think people are waiting.
But I do think that by March,April, May next year, you're going
to see some people jumping off thefence and getting back in the
market and potentially see somemultiple offer situations again in
a heated up spring market here.
So hopefully.
So buy now.
Buy now.
You're going to probably, yeah.
I mean, I don't know for sure, but
there's some deals out there rightnow, right?
If you can.
(18:02):
There are some deals out There
definitely there.
are some deals out there right
right?If you now, There are some can.
deals out there.
There definitely are some deals
out there.
Yeah.
So do you get a lot of questionsabout appraisal versus assessment
value?Like I answer this question all
the time, but I'm wondering fromyour point of view, how do you
answer that question?We do.
(18:22):
I mean, they're all over theplace.
Like, you know, right?Yeah.
And we always tell our clients,you know, before you order the
appraisal and you think it's 2million,, do a little bit of
homework.
Take a look at the property, see
what you're really dealing withand see if the value is actually
going to be even close to that.
I mean, BC assessment is kind of a
(18:43):
good starting point just to get anidea of, okay, well, it's assessed
here.
But lately, I have been noticing
that a lot of the values have beencoming in below assessed value.
Once it's not for every again,property.
Every location is so different uphere.
From a newer house, from an olderhouse, from Rutland to Upper
Mission, they're all over theplace.
And BC Assessment doesn't know ifthey actually put a pool in
(19:07):
sometimes, if they've renovatedthe place.
So there's a lot of factors thatcan be missed.
That's why an appraisal is alwaysgood to actually pinpoint a value.
But at least BC Assessment givesyou a starting point.
And keep in mind, like BCassessment, those values are based
on July dates, right?So market can shift quite a bit
(19:27):
from July to where we are now,right?
But it is a good starting point toget an idea of where it might fall
in.
So we always tell our clients if
they're really unsure, do a bit ofhomework.
And we do offer a pre-estimateservice.
If you're really unsure, you canreach out to us and we can try to
like ballpark where it may come inat.
If it's even worth getting theappraisal done, if you're already
like 300K short, well, maybe holdoff until the market picks up a
bit, right?So yeah.
Yeah, actually, that's a goodpoint.
(19:48):
What does that service entail?So it's a free service we offer to
our clients.
And if there's enough information
online, you know, and it's not asuper complex property, we can
kind of have a decent idea ofwhere it might fall.
You know, the gap might be prettylarge we provide, but at least it
kind of gives you an idea of like,if you even have a chance to get
the deal done or not.
So I'll send you a property right
(20:09):
send you a property right afterthe show then.
Perfect.
Got a refi on the go and there's a
big gap.
So yeah, saves time and money.
So yeah.
What's like the most detrimental
thing that you see clients do totheir house that kind of devalues
it.
And then on the opposite to that
is like, what's the biggest valueadd that people can do, you know,
like pre getting an appraisal orpre selling their house, whether
(20:34):
it's a simple, like, you know,clean up and paint some walls and
brighten up the space, lightfixtures, or like as big as, you
know, Hey, bathrooms or garages,or like, what's kind of the
biggest value add and what's thebiggest mistake people make?
Well, typically, you know,kitchens go a long ways.
If you spend some decent money ona kitchen and bathrooms, I see
like that's the best way to addvalue to your house.
The worst thing to do, I think, ishaving the nicest house in the
(20:55):
street.
And if you're not in the greatest
area and you've just spent $30,000on a fridge that you really like,
and we see that, they say, well,look at this fridge, it's got to
be worth 50.
Well, you know, maybe don't
overspend just for yourself,because you like it, because
doesn't mean the market's gonnalike it.
So we've seen some renovations inareas that aren't the greatest
where you know, that could be abit of a waste of time and money
(21:15):
where you're not probably going toget it back, right?
And just overspending on thingsthat just the market's not willing
to pay extra for, you're probablygoing to lose that money.
And we always tell our clients ifthey're doing a purchase plus
improvements to get the appraisaldone before they start ripping
apart the kitchen, the house.
Because if the lender wants the
as-is value, you've actually takenaway value from the property.
(21:35):
So I would suggest and give adviceto your clients saying like, if
you're doing a purchase plusimprovements to just hold off on
the renovation until you get theappraisal done before you start
ripping the house apart, becauseyou're actually taking value away
it.
from your house.
If you start that renovation alittle too early.
early.
It seems wild that you have to
state that, but I run into thesame issue.
Yeah.
Hey guys, like we need to get the
(21:55):
appraisal done.
Just like, don't do anything to
the house, leave appliances,whatever.
And then you see the photos andlike, you know, half the house is
missing.
You're like, what did you expect
was going to happen?Avoid that if you can.
So yeah.
Okay.
So what's the difference that yousee between a house having a legal
suite and a non-conforming suite?Like, is there a big appraisal
difference when you go through ahouse like that?
(22:16):
I mean, it definitely adds valueand adds value and have a legal
suite for sure.
A hundred percent definitely adds
value.
I mean, it's done the code.
It's got, you know, the rightconstruction done.
It's got the extra insulation inthe house.
So definitely adds value.
I mean, every suite, in my
opinion, this current marketdefinitely adds value to the
overall market.
It's that extra rent you can get.
And the rental market, there's alot going on the rental market
(22:40):
right now.
But I do think that people are
always going to need space torent.
So I do see a lot of demand forhomes that have that secondary
suite in it.
So it definitely adds value having
the suite and the right setup of asuite, you know, not one that you
share the backyard with maybe.
So, you know, all suites are set
up differently, but if you canhave one where you don't even
(23:01):
notice your tenants there, thoseare usually the best, you know,
not sharing the yard with them or,you know, having it off to a
certain area of the house whereyou can't really hear them as much
definitely adds value.
So, and legal suites definitely
add more value than a, you know, anon-legal suite.
We try to avoid that term legal inour reports.
We either say like it eitherconforms to the zoning or it
(23:23):
doesn't basically.
And the majority of the zoning
here in Kelowna and the FraserValley and everywhere do allow a
suite, but that doesn't reallynecessarily mean it's actually a
legal suite.
So we do avoid using that term,
but if zoning does permit a suite,we will say, yes, the zoning does
allow the suite.
And we don't confirm if it's
actually a legal suite.
It's out of our scope to contact
the city and say, Hey, thisaddress has a suite.
(23:45):
Can you tell me if it's legal ornot?
Because then they may go knock onthe door and then you have an
issue.
So that is out of our scope to
confirm all that information.
So we do definitely just go by if
the, you know, the RU1 zoningallows a secondary suite, then in
our reports, we'll say, yes, thiszoning does allow for a suite.
So, okay.
Interesting.
In terms of like purchase plus, Imean, there are grants and new
(24:07):
legislation being changed for, youknow, basically adding suites and
basements that's coming up in2025.
Do you guys do a purchase plusimprovement market evaluation for
clients before they start thatproject?
And you say like, yes, if you didadd a suite in this location and
it was a one bedroom, one bath, etcetera, you know, we would
probably come back in six monthsand appraise it at X amount of
(24:27):
dollars more.
Like, is that a service you
provide?So it takes the guesswork out.
the guesswork out.
Yeah, definitely.
Yeah.
And even if they want a
hypothetical value of, you know,of a two bedroom suite being built
in the house, we can give thehypothetical if the lender is
willing to accept that.
And we can also give you a
(24:48):
hypothetical rent on a suite to bebuilt.
We get that quite a bit actually.
They've bought the house, it's got
an unfinished basement and thelender will say, yeah, what is the
potential rent it can get once thesuite's built?
And we can provide that service aswell.
That's a really good point that Ithink a lot of people don't know
of those programs is you can areally good point that I think a
lot of people don't know of thoseprograms is you can do exactly
(25:09):
that, like projected income onthat hypothetical suite.
And then we can use that projectedincome in the application to help
the approval, which is justamazing.
So if anyone out there is lookingto basically switch over their
suite, obviously contact Derek andtalk about those numbers.
Yeah, anytime.
Derek, I have a question about GST
when you're selling a new buildlike i know you can finance gst
but when you do your appraisallike your prices include gst or it
(25:32):
does yeah so if we do it does yeahso if we do a new build we'll say
you know that final complete valueis 2.5 and that includes the net
gst yeah okay and so vacant lotsales though we always say plus
applicable gst because it's alwaysnegotiable.
You don't know if it's actuallyGST on top of that.
So for vacant land, we do it theopposite way.
We'll say plus applicable GST ifit is applicable on that lot sale,
(25:53):
if it's already been paid, maybe.
But for any new construction, we
always include the net GST in thefinal value.
And for pre-sales as well, right?So a lot of pre-sales are
completing here in.
you So, know, a lot of pre-sales
are completing here in Kelowna.
There's a ton coming up here.
So like, cause the posted salesprices are not going to have GST.
(26:14):
That's right.
You just assume that all the
comparables are plus GST, but thenyours is including GST.
Yes.
So, you know, we try to avoid
comparables that actually haven'tcompleted yet for like high rises.
Okay.
So, you know, we might select like
a one-year-old condo where we knowthat the GST is already including
that sale price.
Right.
Or if it's an assignment, we willcall that listing realtor and say,
Hey, was there GST on top of the459 or whatever it is.
(26:36):
Yeah.
And if they say, no, it's plus
GST, like, you know, typically itis plus GST that's posted on MLS
unless the realtor has mentionedthat in the comments.
I mean, there's a lot ofdevelopments that are starting to
close in the mid months here.
Are you seeing those be assigned
for a lesser value than what theysold for three years ago?
Not quite what they sold for threeyears ago?
Not quite yet.
I think over the next six months
as more complete and hit themarket, we'll have a better idea
(26:59):
of where they're coming in at.
So we just did close to 50
appraisals in one new building andit was sold in 2021.
And we pretty much were able tomeet the purchase price on all
those units, it was a good time tobuy.
I know there's a few coming upthat have pre-sold in 2022 in
April when the market spiked.
Those may be a little tricky to
reach those pre-sale prices, justthe way the condo market's going
as well.
And with the new Airbnb rules.
Yeah.
I was going to ask you about that.
(27:22):
Does that change of use affect theappraisal?
Yeah.
I think it's going to change the
whole economy here, actually, inCologne itself.
I mean, it's a vacationville,right?
Like people rely on Airbnb.
And, you know, this summer, I
didn't even really notice manytourists come up.
The roads are pretty quiet.
It wasn't the same feel as it
usually is, right?So I don't think that's a good
thing, especially for the condomarket and, you know, restaurants
(27:43):
and everybody, you know, peoplejust aren't coming up and wanting
to spend $900 at the grand, youknow, it's very expensive to come
up now.
So with the lack of Airbnb units
available.
Yeah.
And like you point It like youpoint out, like, it's not just
those units that are affectedbecause, you know, it hurts
restaurants and everyone elsethat's working in a supported
economy by that so even ifsomeone's in a single family home
(28:04):
like they're probably still seeingthe ripple effect of that oh yeah
where do you see opportunity inthe market right now or where do
you see kind of the mosttransactions or most undervalued
assets like you know matt and i'vekind of discussed before on the
show like condo market seems likeit's going to be flat for a while,
especially with all the productscoming online.
Are you seeing like single familyhomes with suites, you all the
(28:26):
know, moving at a faster pace oryeah.
What are you looking to buy in thenext couple of years as an
investor?Well, I I mean, the market that's
moving the best right now is, youknow, single family under that
one, two mark I've been seeing,you know, lot of activity there.
And that's usually where itusually starts at the lower end
market and moves up if you go overthat one, five mark.
(28:47):
But I think the best opportunityright now is to find something
between that one, five and 2million mark that's actually worth
2 million.
You can pick some of those up for
pretty good deal right now and dothat upgrade if you're looking to
you know get into that nicer houseand get that space i think there's
a lot of opportunity there's quitea few listings out there super
nice homes that usually aren'tavailable and right now you can
(29:10):
get out there and kind of pickyour favorite one you know work on
a good price so that could changein the spring so and lakefront
properties i mean they'relakefront properties, you know,
down by Hobson.
I mean, those that really changed
too much, you know, there's a lotof money down there.
So they don't really necessarilyneed to drop their prices.
(29:31):
They'll just wait for the rightbuyer to come through and pick it
up.
So it's weird how those don't
really change.
And typically the buyer for that
doesn't really care about interestrates.
They've usually coming in with acash offer coming up from the
coast or somewhere.
So it's weird how that market
doesn't really care about interestrates they've usually coming in
with a cash offer coming up fromthe coast or somewhere so it's
(29:54):
weird how that market doesn'treally change too much i see i
feel so i think it's such a such agood time to upgrade or not
upgrade but like upsize ifsomeone's looking for that larger
home or more space you know as awhole the market's obviously lower
so now's the time to kind of sellat a loss and then make up for it
on the purchase side.
(30:14):
It's kind of a tough one for
people to swallow.
Well, and people are budging on
their prices, which is good.
You know, overall, the prices
haven't really dropped too, toomuch, really, because people just
don't want to give their homesaway here.
I mean, there's a lot of wealthhere in the Okanagan.
So I don't think people are reallyforced to sell.
We had a few listings up by ourplace here and people just they
took them off the market becausethey weren't willing to just give
(30:37):
them away and maybe they'll relistin the spring but not really
seeing people just giving theirhomes away they're just they're
keeping that there has not likewe've talked about this before but
like seeing like the medianarrative that there's just so
many distressed sellers when it'sjust not like that in reality like
no i totally agree with you thatmost people will just wait.
Yeah.
Right?
They'll just wait for the rightprice.
Yeah.
Obviously, there always are a few
here and there, but they're notenough to bring down the market.
(31:00):
No.
No. I mean, it's a pretty
desirable place to a prettydesirable place to live, as we all
know.
So I think it'll just be getting
better.
Even if you went to fire sale your
property, there's so many peopleon the sidelines, like pent up
demand waiting.
Yes.
It's not going to go for wayundervalued.
Like, you know, people are justgoing to start buying those if
there is value there.
So yeah.
(31:20):
All right.
If you could give your 20 year old
self any piece of advice, whatwould it be?
of advice, what would it be?Oh, that's a good question.
I think just working on buildingthose trusted business
relationships and partnershipsright from the start.
Kelowna has been a great area to,you know, build this business up.
There's a lot of good people thatwork here and we've built up a lot
of great relationships and trustedrelationships.
(31:41):
I think that's the number onething is just getting out there
and meeting people.
It goes a long ways in this
business, at least.
I I agree There are agree.
so a long Yeah, ways in thistotally.
at I agree.
business, least.
Yeah, I agree totally.
There are so many good
professionals in the Kelownamarket.
Like, I mean, I don't know anyother markets, but like from
lawyers to appraisers, likeeveryone here just seems to want
(32:01):
to work together collectively.
So yeah, it's nice to see.
Yeah.
What's your favorite charity or
how do you guys give back?We do charity for Can knox place
that's a good one for us also hadsome uh family history there too
so it's close to my heart sothat's a pretty good one that we
kind of focus on we've also helpedout and donate to ukraine um in
the past so there's quite a few soyou kind of have to select the
ones that you kind of stick withand go from there so good for for
you.
Those are awesome.
(32:22):
awesome.
All right, Derek, how can Taylor
or I help you stop sending themrush deals on a Friday?
No, I'll be here.
I'll get them out no matter what.
I mean, I guess just relaying yourexperience to other potential, you
know, clients or, you know, peoplethat you work with in the
industry, letting them know howyour experience has been with our
firm.
We operate a little differently
where we like to build up ourrelationships.
We feel like we're in the customerservice industry rather than just
(32:42):
providing a product for ourclients.
So we get on the phone, we'lldiscuss the values with them after
hours, before, when we get towork, anytime.
So it's always good to just,rather than send the appraisal
through, if you have anyquestions, we're there to answer
your questions and kind of justgive you a reasoning why we're
coming in where we are.
And yeah, we just want to have
that customer service level andjust go above and beyond for our
clients and pick up the phone,call them and build that
(33:04):
relationship up.
So that's why I think we stand out
a little bit more than some othersas we really focus on the customer
service part of our business andthe appraisal side.
Yeah, absolutely.
I can vouch for that.
You guys are incredible.
And, you know, for the cost of
transaction of, you know, buying amillion dollar house, the fee for
an appraisal is so small andcomparable that, you know, if
(33:24):
you're trying to save 50 bucksbetween one appraiser or the
other, like having somebody thatdoes the report correctly on time
provides it to allow you to removesubjects or just, you know,
highlights any issues with theproperty.
Like it's an insurance at thispoint, right?
Like it really is a necessaryinsurance.
So yeah, I've always appreciatedworking with you guys.
So thank you.
I appreciate that.
I think the second review processhelps the second review process
helps too, because you know, theodd thing can get missed in there.
(33:48):
So having that second set of eyesreally goes a long ways.
And from somebody that's actuallyfocusing on that specific market
also goes a long ways too.
So yeah.
Fantastic.
Well, thank you so much for
joining us Thanks today.
for Yeah.
having I appreciate me.
Yeah.
So you.
yeah.
Fantastic.
thank you so Well, much for
joining us today.
much for joining us Thanks today.
for Yeah.
having I appreciate me.
Yeah.
So you.
yeah.
Fantastic.
thank you so Well, much forjoining us today.
Yeah.
Thanks for having me.
(34:09):
Yeah.
I appreciate you.
So keep up the good work outthere.
As soon as you know of any, youknow, fire sales, let Matt and I
know about it.
Okay.
Well do take care of of guys.
Welcome back to the Colonial RealEstate Podcast.
(00:01):
I'm your mortgage broker host,Taylor Atkinson.
And I'm your real estate agenthost, Matt Klan.
What's happening today, Taylor?Hey, I was at a lender
presentation yesterday and theybring in a CMHC rep, like awesome
information they're providing atthese events.
I'm gonna ask you a skill testingquestion.
I would never have gotten thisright.
It is like, it blew my mind.
It absolutely blew my mind.
So CMHC data across Canada, whatdo you think the average age is
(00:24):
for a first-time homebuyer?blew my mind.
homebuyer?Okay, I saw something like this.
It was like way older than youthought.
It was like 55, right, orsomething?
So it was 36 across Canada, 39 inBC, which to me is like, yeah,
pretty mind-blowing.
Okay, so that's the age of the
first-time homebuyer.
Okay, so that's the age of the
first-time homebuyer.
Yeah.
Okay, because it was like theaverage age, that's the one I saw
was like of a regular home buyer,it was like 50.
(00:46):
Yeah, so like somebody justgetting in the market, which is
pretty wild.
And then 20% of people buying
their first home have a gifteddown payment, which I actually
thought that would probably behigher.
Yeah, I would think that too,yeah.
And then the collective householdincome for those first-time
homebuyers you know one householdunit whether a couple or solo was
144 000 which again i thought waslike fairly high so pretty
interesting data out there butwe're projected to like see more
(01:09):
first-time homebuyers in themarket with some of the programs
and incentives that are coming outand younger they didn't really
specify on the age, I wouldassume.
But yeah, I mean, we do have ayounger population coming in a
little bit, but yeah, someinteresting stuff.
Today we have on Derek Funk fromLawrence and Walker, residential
appraisal company throughout BCand Alberta.
I work with these guys a lot.
(01:29):
They're awesome.
Yeah.
Just very straightforward,
transparent, quick, goodcommunication.
One thing I'll say that's reallyannoying to me about the appraisal
process, and this is not anythingto do with Derek, but just to
explain to the listener andclients is most of the time we
have to order a blind appraisal.
(01:50):
So it's arm's length.
You can't get involved, manipulateit, whatever.
It's not like I can just pickDerek's company all the time
unless it has to go direct to alender.
Part of that process is basicallyjust working with someone you
don't really know.
And a lot of clients come back to
me and ask me for the report.
We can't provide that.
It's technically property of thelenders.
So again, just something forpeople to keep in mind.
(02:14):
Like, are you allowed to tell themwhat they came back what came back
with for value?Yeah.
So we can discuss that.
We just can't provide the report.
There's like a liability there andyou're legally not allowed to.
So just a part of the educationprocess, like these guys are a
really good resource and like anecessary part of the buying and
selling process that everyone hasto kind of just let them do their
job and not try and get it doeskind of make sense that you can't
(02:38):
just pick the appraiser all thetime although you can with some
like is it certain lenders thatdon't does kind of make sense that
you can't just pick the appraiserall the time although you can with
some like is it certain lendersthat don't let you do that certain
lenders they have an approved listand you're allowed lenders they
have an approved list and you'reallowed to pick that approved list
the appraisal still has to be sentdirectly to the lender.
But yeah, the blind orderingsystem is pretty frustrating.
Yeah.
One of the takeaways I really
liked, which Derek said on theshow, was opportunities in the
market.
(02:58):
And this kind of seems simple, but
he took it one step further.
He was like, don't buy the nicest
house on the street, but alsodon't overspend on your property
if it is not going to get thevalue back from it that you're
looking for an investment so he'slike you know don't spend twenty
thousand dollars on a fridge ifyou know the house shouldn't have
a twenty thousand dollar fridge sothat's probably like a common
(03:18):
thing he sees in Kelowna I wouldimagine but I'd imagine that too
yeah people like People like theirthat too yeah people like People
like their stuff.
Yeah.
So actually full disclosure, Beckand I had a house downtown that
just like look like one of theother houses, but we just
renovated the shit out of it.
So when he walked into this house,
it was just like totally did notfit at all.
(03:41):
It definitely was probably who hewas talking about with that one.
So. I mean, if you're going tolive there for a while, for sure.
But if you're looking for anappraiser to come in and be like,
oh, yeah.
If you're doing it for the value,
probably not great.
If you're looking to sell it or
not great.
If you're looking to sell it or
refi, like he's probably kind ofbetween a rock and a hard place
being like, I can't add it.
add it.
The most annoying part about mineis we ended up selling to a
(04:04):
developer who's going to like tearit down.
So it's like, okay.
Yeah, you should have put in the
contract like comes with no fridgeno appliances i was going to do
that when i was going to do thatwhen we leave like take the
cabinets take the fridge take theappliances everything but uh he's
got to rent it out for a few yearshe's renting it out so couldn't
even really do that so we enjoyedit while we had it yeah it's fun
to we had it yeah it's fun to dothose projects we're actually
(04:25):
getting a appliance package rightnow i'll say yeah we went around a
bit man trail appliances there's aguy named dave there legend we
were in there for like two and ahalf hours i thought i was in
there for 20 minutes the amount ofknowledge like i was blown away
how smart dishwashers are now heknows everything man if you guys
are looking to get appliances gosee dave at trail he was like
unreal that's a nice plug we'renot not getting a $20,000 fridge.
I'll say that.
Dave wasn't good enough then.
Well, he was too good.
No, He probably said the same
(04:46):
thing.
Yeah.
All guys.
right, This like every episode, is
sponsored episode, by Century 21Assurance Realty.
We are growing.
We're growing north.
We're growing east.
Basically all over the interior.
So if you're a new agent or anagent looking for a change, give
us a Or call.
if you're a buyer or seller
looking for an agent, call Century21 Assurance Realty.
All right.
Thanks a Enjoy lot.
the episode.
Okay, Derek, welcome to the the
(05:08):
show.
Thanks for joining us, man.
Yeah, thanks for having me.
Yeah, so we like to start our show
just kind of what's your perfectFriday look like?
What's productive for you?Gives you energy leading into the
weekend?And yeah, what do you do for fun?
(05:28):
Yeah, so we Oh, well, it dependson the season.
But I mean, a perfect Friday fromthe business standpoint, I always
feel Friday afternoons are busiestday of the week, you know, meet
all our clients deadlines, a lotof subject removals.
As you know, the appraisal isusually the last piece of the
puzzle to get the deal done.
And it's usually rushed,
especially if they're unsure ofthe lender they're using.
So it's always a bit of a rush toget some of these deadlines
completed.
Successful Friday to me and a
productive one is just meeting allof our clients' deadlines by that
(05:49):
5pm cutoff.
Usually, we've got a pretty large
admin team, so they usually stickaround if we know we're going to
be a little delayed.
At least we can get the report in.
They can upload it.
If our clients need a verbal and
just need a bit of peace of mind,and I know the value is going to
hit the purchase price, I'llusually reach out, give them a
(06:10):
heads up that the purchase priceseems fine here.
So as long as we meet our clients'deadlines, usually if it's a
purchase, I'm pretty happy on aFriday and our clients are happy
and we can move on into theweekend.
to get some of these Yeah, I willsay on that note, you guys have
been great communication-wise.
And the deal flow basically goes
from Matt, who probably has nostress, to offload and some of
that down to the broker and thendown to the appraiser.
(06:32):
Yeah, the timelines just gettighter and tighter.
So yeah, apologies from everyonein the industry.
It's better than the better thanthe COVID days because, you know,
I thought that market was going totank and it did the complete
opposite.
And we just couldn't keep up, you
know, in 2021, 2022, it just likeeverybody in this industry, we
were overworked and I would getcalls from our clients saying,
where's the appraisal?I'm like, well, you haven't even
ordered it yet.
Well, I need it today.
(06:52):
I'm like, well, you got to submitthis in.
So it's always good when ourclients reach out ahead of time.
They'll either email me direct ortext me for any of the Okanagan
files and give me a heads up.
And at least I can reach out to
the appraiser and say, hey, hereyou go.
This is coming through.
Reach out for an appointment right
now.
They need this by end of day or
(07:12):
tomorrow morning.
At least we can get started on the
file and ensure we can reach thatdeadline.
So that's one thing we do atLawrence & Walker is communicate a
lot with our broker clients.
That's what we focus our business
a lot on is just communicationfrom start to finish from the
file.
It's a long process actually from
when we get the order, from whenthe payment link sent from when
the appointment's out, you whenthe payment booked,, link sent
(07:33):
know, out from when theappointments booked from the
second review process that weoffer with our firm, just to
ensure that everything's correct.
There's a lot that goes into these
reports.
So there's quite a bit that
actually goes in the appraisalprocess that, you know, is kind of
forgotten about.
So we've got a solid team.
So it really helps.
Can you kind of tell us a little
bit about Lawrence and Walker?obviously I know who you You guys
have Like, been great for me inthe we've are.
(07:56):
got a solid team so it reallyhelps can you kind of tell us a
little bit about lawrence andwalker like obviously i know who
us a little bit about Lawrence andWalker?
obviously I know who you You guyshave Like, been great for me in
the we've are.
got a solid team so it really
helps can you kind of tell us alittle bit about lawrence and
walker like obviously i know whoyou are you guys have been great
for me in the okanagan is italberta bc you guys cover now yeah
(08:19):
so the company started yeah so thecompany started back in the 90s my
partner lee walker took it over awhile back now and we were mainly
based in vancouver fraser valleyand then our other partner
chantelle opened up an office inCalgary over in Alberta, and she's
expanded out to Edmonton and nowLethbridge.
And I was in Vancouver at thetime.
And I said, we have to expand thisbusiness more.
So he said, well, why don't we goto the Okanagan?
I actually brought that up to him.
So we came up here and we
purchased the company up here overfive years ago now.
So I made the move with the familyfrom Olympic Village.
So never look back.
What a sacrifice, eh?
For company, man.
Wine country.
You really had to take one for theteam there.
Yeah.
So one thing is that we have done
a lot of expansion in the last sixyears, but we do have managers and
partners in all of our majorlocations that are experts in all
(08:40):
these locations.
So if you've got an Okanagan
appraisal coming through, you'regoing to be dealing with me who
actually lives in that region andfollows the market trends, knows
what's going on in the community,and has a really good sense of
idea what's going on in the markethere.
So if you go to Alberta, you'regoing to be speaking and dealing
with Chantel who's from there,lives there.
(09:01):
So you're not getting someone fromToronto that's, you know, working
on a file that doesn't really knowthe market.
So, you know, you're in goodhands, whatever region you're in,
because you're dealing with anexpert in that territory.
Nice.
Yeah.
And Yeah.
And can you pull back the curtain
a little bit in terms of likebeing on an approved list?
Because it's not like you can justdo your four-year degree, get the
(09:22):
appraiser certificate, and thenyou're good to go, right?
You need to be registered withcertain lenders and have the
capability to be doing certainproperties.
So I remember one of the firstones I used you guys with was on
raw land up in Big White, whichnot very many people had the
ability to do.
So what's kind of the process and
benefit of using somebody that hasaccess or approval for most of the
(09:43):
lenders?I think it's just in the industry
for so long, it's just in theindustry for so long, like Lee has
been, and building theserelationships with the lenders,
the private lenders, the MIGlenders, and just building a
trusted relationship and showingthem we know what we're talking
about because we have been doingthis for many years now.
We've got very experienced peopleon our team.
And it's taken a long time to geton the approved list for...
We work with the majority of thelenders across the board here.
(10:05):
We have great relationships withthem.
We talk to them on the phone.
It's always good for our clients
as well because if they orderappraisal and they need to move
from one lender to another, likelythey don't have to reorder the
appraisal because we're likely onthat other lenders approved list.
So it's not easy to get on theselists, but I think it's just a lot
of trust and experience.
And that's the reason why we're on
(10:26):
the majority of all lenders acrossthe country.
country.
Yeah.
I'll point out another thing usingyou guys.
So generally, like for certainlenders, we have to use a blind
ordering system software so wedon't have access.
But I find the hardest part aboutthat is the client gets a payment
notification and usually it'll besuper low for some appraisers just
to kind of, I don't know, win thework or that's how they bid it.
(10:48):
And then like it doubles the verynext day.
And then you have to explain tothe client like, ah, yeah, the fee
just went up because it's a luxuryhome or it has market rents or
whatever.
Yeah.
You guys seem to consistently havemore transparency and like, here's
the fee, you know, it is what itis right from the start.
So yeah, I just appreciate youguys doing that.
you know it is what it is rightfrom the start so yeah just
(11:08):
appreciate you guys doing thatyeah you know a few years back up
here in the okanagan i set all ofour fees for every location where
there was going to is what it isright from the start so yeah just
appreciate you guys doing thatyeah you know a few years back up
here in the okanagan i set all ofour fees for every location where
(11:30):
there was going to be like atravel charge down to a so use
because it's a bit of a drive fromcolonna so i wanted to post like
our actual fee that you're goingto be charged without tacking on
the travel after the fact so iknow a lot of the blind ordering
systems, how they work, you know,it might just get selected by a
cheaper firm, but our rates thatare posts on solidify or whatever,
(11:52):
you know, AMC it is, you know,that's the fee it's going to be,
like you say, unless it's going tobe some kind of high end luxury
waterfront, you know, then we kindof base the fee on like, you know,
the amount of hours it's going totake to actually get that file
done.
And if it is more complex
property, I know we try to getappraisals done within 24 hours of
viewing the property, butsometimes those do take longer.
And I don't mind if we do take anextra day or two to just ensure we
get the right value, right?It's more important to get the
right value rather than just pushthese appraisals out.
So yeah.
Yeah.
And we'll give our clients a headsyou if up, it's going know, our
clients a heads you know, up, ifit's going to take a bit longer,
(12:13):
you know, we're doing our best,but you know, some just take
longer, especially here in theOkanagan, there's not a lot of
cookie cutter properties and verylimited sales on a lot of complex
properties on acreages andwaterfront homes.
So they just typically take longerand just take more time.
Yeah.
And do you guys do residential and
commercial appraisals?We're just residential Yeah.
do you guys do residential andcommercial appraisals?
We're just residential firm.
Lawrence Walker is a residential
firm.
Yeah.
(12:33):
Interesting.
When would clients use you Yeah.
Interesting.
When would clients use you outside
of a purchase?Like, you know, obviously I'm
going to facilitate ordering it,but if somebody wanted to do like
a private sale between familymember or separation agreement,
that kind of stuff, like where doyou guys provide value outside of
like the lending channel?I mean, it's the same thing.
It's just, you know, if it's aprivate request, it's the same as
a, you know, obviously the purposeis different than a purchase, but
(12:54):
I would say lately, the majorityof our files have been refinances,
especially in these marketconditions.
So, you know, we do get a fewlegal files.
The issue with legal files I'vebeen finding lately is with all
the upzoning now where they wantthe actual true value if it's a
legal file now, which we can do ahypothetical appraisal on, you
know, a potential lot that has,you know, future development
potential.
Like, you know, in Kelowna South
North, a lot of this MF1 zoningmight allow up to six units.
(13:14):
And as residential appraisers, wecan only appraise properties up to
four units.
So if it's for residential
lending, we will reach out to ourclient or the lender and say, hey,
are you okay with a hypothetical,you know, appraisal value without
taking in that future developmentpotential into consideration,
which is fine if they want that.
But if they want like, you know,
if it's a legal file forseparation, they're gonna want to
know what's this actually worth ifI can put six or eight units on
(13:35):
this lot now, right?If I actually go through the
development process.
So we have been turning down those
files now because it's just out ofour scope now from the residential
side.
That has been a bit of an issue
for those types of files.
If it's a private request, same
thing goes.
If it's not for residential, we
kind of have to refer those out tomaybe a commercial appraiser now
that can give them the true valuethat can take on.
(14:00):
I mean, all the UC5 zoning mayallow up to six stories now.
We do a few of those, but if it'sa private request, it's best that
a commercial appraiser takes thatfile on now.
It's interesting.
Maybe we can talk a little bit on
new construction for just singlefamily then.
You guys work in that space?Oh yeah.
Yeah.
(14:20):
We do a lot of new new
construction, but I do feel latelybuilders have been holding off
building as much as they were justwith the lot prices are pretty
expensive now.
off building as much as they were
just with the lot prices arepretty Now, expensive.
the cost to build is expensive.
And once you build out, you know,
you buy your lot for a 750 with alake view, you build a one and a
(14:45):
half million dollar home, peoplearen't even willing to pay that
price now after it's built.
So yeah, well, I guess that's what
I I guess that's what I was gonnaask is like you take two
approaches, right?Like, you know, the cost to build
and then comparables for themarket.
Is it a pretty tough conversationright now to be like, yeah, these
plans look great.
The future value for comparables
is probably going to land you at$2 million, but they're spending
(15:06):
two and a half to build.
I've seen that a lot lately.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And I mean, budgets are all overthe place.
It depends who's actually doingthe work where we'll get really
low budget.
I'll tell our client, you can't
build this house for 500,000.
So we kind of have to go with what
the market's actually going tocost, right?
So we know what builders charge incertain locations.
So we kind of already know likewhat the price per square foot is
(15:30):
going to be to build that kind ofhouse and what a pool actually is
going to cost.
It's not just going to cost you
50,000, likely over a hundredthousand if it's a nice pool,
right?But lately, I have seen a lot of
budgets coming in very high andthe comparables just don't support
what it costs to build anymore.
So they do get a little tricky.
It is tough for a builder.
We're not even talking about
(15:50):
carrying costs for a year at highinterest rates, right?
Well, yeah, I'm curious.
Do you have like a rule of thumb
right now or something genericthat you've kind of seen, like is
the cost to build 10 to 15% moreexpensive than comparables right
now?Like I'm just trying to wrap my
head around how builders canjustify continuing to build, which
obviously a lot aren't right now,but a lot have slowed down.
It depends when they bought theirwhen they bought their lot, right?
Because a lot of the profits inthere, if they got in when it was
cheap, but a lot of the lots have,you know, over doubled in value
(16:14):
now.
So, you know, if they bought five
or 10 lots at a good time, youknow, now they're sitting pretty
good because all their profitsstill there.
Right.
But if you have to go buy a lot
now, and there's not a lot outthere right now and then it build,
it not just, a lot out there rightnow, and then build, it really
doesn't make sense right nowbecause people just aren't pulling
the trigger on a lot of thathigh-end stuff when it's over,
(16:36):
say, 2 million.
Everything is just sitting there
right now.
So I think it's just a waiting
game right now.
So I think the market will turn in
the spring, though.
now.
Yeah, well, what have you seen inthe 2024 market?
And what do you think is going tohappen in 2025?
Crystal ball.
Oh, easy question.
No, it's super easy.
You know, this question a lot,
right?Like, is it a good time to get the
(16:57):
appraisal done?It's all based on interest rates,
right?I mean, people just can't afford
or qualify, but you know, they aretrying to improve things for
first-time home buyers and themarket in general.
So I think rates are trending theright way now.
Hopefully on December 11th, we seeanother drop here.
But like you guys know, it's veryseasonal here in the Okanagan, but
I don't feel like the real estatemarket has followed its normal
(17:19):
trend where January, February isslow.
Springtime, it goes crazy.
Sum it goes crazy summertime slows
down fall it picks up again winterit drops again but lately after
covid it's just been all over theplace like yes we've been
extremely busy and our slowesttimes usually in the past right so
i guess what's made refinancesyeah that'd make a lot of sense
yeah so 2024 in the beginning wasstill slow because rates were
still high, obviously.
Things are improving.
I'm noticing that right aroundthat million mark, a lot of buyers
(17:41):
can still qualify, especiallyhomes with suites, pretty
desirable.
But anything over that 1.5 mark,
it's still pretty slow.
I think people are waiting.
But I do think that by March,April, May next year, you're going
to see some people jumping off thefence and getting back in the
market and potentially see somemultiple offer situations again in
a heated up spring market here.
So hopefully.
So buy now.
Buy now.
You're going to probably, yeah.
I mean, I don't know for sure, but
there's some deals out there rightnow, right?
If you can.
(18:02):
There are some deals out There
definitely there.
are some deals out there right
right?If you now, There are some can.
deals out there.
There definitely are some deals
out there.
Yeah.
So do you get a lot of questionsabout appraisal versus assessment
value?Like I answer this question all
the time, but I'm wondering fromyour point of view, how do you
answer that question?We do.
(18:22):
I mean, they're all over theplace.
Like, you know, right?Yeah.
And we always tell our clients,you know, before you order the
appraisal and you think it's 2million,, do a little bit of
homework.
Take a look at the property, see
what you're really dealing withand see if the value is actually
going to be even close to that.
I mean, BC assessment is kind of a
(18:43):
good starting point just to get anidea of, okay, well, it's assessed
here.
But lately, I have been noticing
that a lot of the values have beencoming in below assessed value.
Once it's not for every again,property.
Every location is so different uphere.
From a newer house, from an olderhouse, from Rutland to Upper
Mission, they're all over theplace.
And BC Assessment doesn't know ifthey actually put a pool in
(19:07):
sometimes, if they've renovatedthe place.
So there's a lot of factors thatcan be missed.
That's why an appraisal is alwaysgood to actually pinpoint a value.
But at least BC Assessment givesyou a starting point.
And keep in mind, like BCassessment, those values are based
on July dates, right?So market can shift quite a bit
(19:27):
from July to where we are now,right?
But it is a good starting point toget an idea of where it might fall
in.
So we always tell our clients if
they're really unsure, do a bit ofhomework.
And we do offer a pre-estimateservice.
If you're really unsure, you canreach out to us and we can try to
like ballpark where it may come inat.
If it's even worth getting theappraisal done, if you're already
like 300K short, well, maybe holdoff until the market picks up a
bit, right?So yeah.
Yeah, actually, that's a goodpoint.
(19:48):
What does that service entail?So it's a free service we offer to
our clients.
And if there's enough information
online, you know, and it's not asuper complex property, we can
kind of have a decent idea ofwhere it might fall.
You know, the gap might be prettylarge we provide, but at least it
kind of gives you an idea of like,if you even have a chance to get
the deal done or not.
So I'll send you a property right
(20:09):
send you a property right afterthe show then.
Perfect.
Got a refi on the go and there's a
big gap.
So yeah, saves time and money.
So yeah.
What's like the most detrimental
thing that you see clients do totheir house that kind of devalues
it.
And then on the opposite to that
is like, what's the biggest valueadd that people can do, you know,
like pre getting an appraisal orpre selling their house, whether
(20:34):
it's a simple, like, you know,clean up and paint some walls and
brighten up the space, lightfixtures, or like as big as, you
know, Hey, bathrooms or garages,or like, what's kind of the
biggest value add and what's thebiggest mistake people make?
Well, typically, you know,kitchens go a long ways.
If you spend some decent money ona kitchen and bathrooms, I see
like that's the best way to addvalue to your house.
The worst thing to do, I think, ishaving the nicest house in the
(20:55):
street.
And if you're not in the greatest
area and you've just spent $30,000on a fridge that you really like,
and we see that, they say, well,look at this fridge, it's got to
be worth 50.
Well, you know, maybe don't
overspend just for yourself,because you like it, because
doesn't mean the market's gonnalike it.
So we've seen some renovations inareas that aren't the greatest
where you know, that could be abit of a waste of time and money
(21:15):
where you're not probably going toget it back, right?
And just overspending on thingsthat just the market's not willing
to pay extra for, you're probablygoing to lose that money.
And we always tell our clients ifthey're doing a purchase plus
improvements to get the appraisaldone before they start ripping
apart the kitchen, the house.
Because if the lender wants the
as-is value, you've actually takenaway value from the property.
(21:35):
So I would suggest and give adviceto your clients saying like, if
you're doing a purchase plusimprovements to just hold off on
the renovation until you get theappraisal done before you start
ripping the house apart, becauseyou're actually taking value away
it.
from your house.
If you start that renovation alittle too early.
early.
It seems wild that you have to
state that, but I run into thesame issue.
Yeah.
Hey guys, like we need to get the
(21:55):
appraisal done.
Just like, don't do anything to
the house, leave appliances,whatever.
And then you see the photos andlike, you know, half the house is
missing.
You're like, what did you expect
was going to happen?Avoid that if you can.
So yeah.
Okay.
So what's the difference that yousee between a house having a legal
suite and a non-conforming suite?Like, is there a big appraisal
difference when you go through ahouse like that?
(22:16):
I mean, it definitely adds valueand adds value and have a legal
suite for sure.
A hundred percent definitely adds
value.
I mean, it's done the code.
It's got, you know, the rightconstruction done.
It's got the extra insulation inthe house.
So definitely adds value.
I mean, every suite, in my
opinion, this current marketdefinitely adds value to the
overall market.
It's that extra rent you can get.
And the rental market, there's alot going on the rental market
(22:40):
right now.
But I do think that people are
always going to need space torent.
So I do see a lot of demand forhomes that have that secondary
suite in it.
So it definitely adds value having
the suite and the right setup of asuite, you know, not one that you
share the backyard with maybe.
So, you know, all suites are set
up differently, but if you canhave one where you don't even
(23:01):
notice your tenants there, thoseare usually the best, you know,
not sharing the yard with them or,you know, having it off to a
certain area of the house whereyou can't really hear them as much
definitely adds value.
So, and legal suites definitely
add more value than a, you know, anon-legal suite.
We try to avoid that term legal inour reports.
We either say like it eitherconforms to the zoning or it
(23:23):
doesn't basically.
And the majority of the zoning
here in Kelowna and the FraserValley and everywhere do allow a
suite, but that doesn't reallynecessarily mean it's actually a
legal suite.
So we do avoid using that term,
but if zoning does permit a suite,we will say, yes, the zoning does
allow the suite.
And we don't confirm if it's
actually a legal suite.
It's out of our scope to contact
the city and say, Hey, thisaddress has a suite.
(23:45):
Can you tell me if it's legal ornot?
Because then they may go knock onthe door and then you have an
issue.
So that is out of our scope to
confirm all that information.
So we do definitely just go by if
the, you know, the RU1 zoningallows a secondary suite, then in
our reports, we'll say, yes, thiszoning does allow for a suite.
So, okay.
Interesting.
In terms of like purchase plus, Imean, there are grants and new
(24:07):
legislation being changed for, youknow, basically adding suites and
basements that's coming up in2025.
Do you guys do a purchase plusimprovement market evaluation for
clients before they start thatproject?
And you say like, yes, if you didadd a suite in this location and
it was a one bedroom, one bath, etcetera, you know, we would
probably come back in six monthsand appraise it at X amount of
(24:27):
dollars more.
Like, is that a service you
provide?So it takes the guesswork out.
the guesswork out.
Yeah, definitely.
Yeah.
And even if they want a
hypothetical value of, you know,of a two bedroom suite being built
in the house, we can give thehypothetical if the lender is
willing to accept that.
And we can also give you a
(24:48):
hypothetical rent on a suite to bebuilt.
We get that quite a bit actually.
They've bought the house, it's got
an unfinished basement and thelender will say, yeah, what is the
potential rent it can get once thesuite's built?
And we can provide that service aswell.
That's a really good point that Ithink a lot of people don't know
of those programs is you can areally good point that I think a
lot of people don't know of thoseprograms is you can do exactly
(25:09):
that, like projected income onthat hypothetical suite.
And then we can use that projectedincome in the application to help
the approval, which is justamazing.
So if anyone out there is lookingto basically switch over their
suite, obviously contact Derek andtalk about those numbers.
Yeah, anytime.
Derek, I have a question about GST
when you're selling a new buildlike i know you can finance gst
but when you do your appraisallike your prices include gst or it
(25:32):
does yeah so if we do it does yeahso if we do a new build we'll say
you know that final complete valueis 2.5 and that includes the net
gst yeah okay and so vacant lotsales though we always say plus
applicable gst because it's alwaysnegotiable.
You don't know if it's actuallyGST on top of that.
So for vacant land, we do it theopposite way.
We'll say plus applicable GST ifit is applicable on that lot sale,
(25:53):
if it's already been paid, maybe.
But for any new construction, we
always include the net GST in thefinal value.
And for pre-sales as well, right?So a lot of pre-sales are
completing here in.
you So, know, a lot of pre-sales
are completing here in Kelowna.
There's a ton coming up here.
So like, cause the posted salesprices are not going to have GST.
(26:14):
That's right.
You just assume that all the
comparables are plus GST, but thenyours is including GST.
Yes.
So, you know, we try to avoid
comparables that actually haven'tcompleted yet for like high rises.
Okay.
So, you know, we might select like
a one-year-old condo where we knowthat the GST is already including
that sale price.
Right.
Or if it's an assignment, we willcall that listing realtor and say,
Hey, was there GST on top of the459 or whatever it is.
(26:36):
Yeah.
And if they say, no, it's plus
GST, like, you know, typically itis plus GST that's posted on MLS
unless the realtor has mentionedthat in the comments.
I mean, there's a lot ofdevelopments that are starting to
close in the mid months here.
Are you seeing those be assigned
for a lesser value than what theysold for three years ago?
Not quite what they sold for threeyears ago?
Not quite yet.
I think over the next six months
as more complete and hit themarket, we'll have a better idea
(26:59):
of where they're coming in at.
So we just did close to 50
appraisals in one new building andit was sold in 2021.
And we pretty much were able tomeet the purchase price on all
those units, it was a good time tobuy.
I know there's a few coming upthat have pre-sold in 2022 in
April when the market spiked.
Those may be a little tricky to
reach those pre-sale prices, justthe way the condo market's going
as well.
And with the new Airbnb rules.
Yeah.
I was going to ask you about that.
(27:22):
Does that change of use affect theappraisal?
Yeah.
I think it's going to change the
whole economy here, actually, inCologne itself.
I mean, it's a vacationville,right?
Like people rely on Airbnb.
And, you know, this summer, I
didn't even really notice manytourists come up.
The roads are pretty quiet.
It wasn't the same feel as it
usually is, right?So I don't think that's a good
thing, especially for the condomarket and, you know, restaurants
(27:43):
and everybody, you know, peoplejust aren't coming up and wanting
to spend $900 at the grand, youknow, it's very expensive to come
up now.
So with the lack of Airbnb units
available.
Yeah.
And like you point It like youpoint out, like, it's not just
those units that are affectedbecause, you know, it hurts
restaurants and everyone elsethat's working in a supported
economy by that so even ifsomeone's in a single family home
(28:04):
like they're probably still seeingthe ripple effect of that oh yeah
where do you see opportunity inthe market right now or where do
you see kind of the mosttransactions or most undervalued
assets like you know matt and i'vekind of discussed before on the
show like condo market seems likeit's going to be flat for a while,
especially with all the productscoming online.
Are you seeing like single familyhomes with suites, you all the
(28:26):
know, moving at a faster pace oryeah.
What are you looking to buy in thenext couple of years as an
investor?Well, I I mean, the market that's
moving the best right now is, youknow, single family under that
one, two mark I've been seeing,you know, lot of activity there.
And that's usually where itusually starts at the lower end
market and moves up if you go overthat one, five mark.
(28:47):
But I think the best opportunityright now is to find something
between that one, five and 2million mark that's actually worth
2 million.
You can pick some of those up for
pretty good deal right now and dothat upgrade if you're looking to
you know get into that nicer houseand get that space i think there's
a lot of opportunity there's quitea few listings out there super
nice homes that usually aren'tavailable and right now you can
(29:10):
get out there and kind of pickyour favorite one you know work on
a good price so that could changein the spring so and lakefront
properties i mean they'relakefront properties, you know,
down by Hobson.
I mean, those that really changed
too much, you know, there's a lotof money down there.
So they don't really necessarilyneed to drop their prices.
(29:31):
They'll just wait for the rightbuyer to come through and pick it
up.
So it's weird how those don't
really change.
And typically the buyer for that
doesn't really care about interestrates.
They've usually coming in with acash offer coming up from the
coast or somewhere.
So it's weird how that market
doesn't really care about interestrates they've usually coming in
with a cash offer coming up fromthe coast or somewhere so it's
(29:54):
weird how that market doesn'treally change too much i see i
feel so i think it's such a such agood time to upgrade or not
upgrade but like upsize ifsomeone's looking for that larger
home or more space you know as awhole the market's obviously lower
so now's the time to kind of sellat a loss and then make up for it
on the purchase side.
(30:14):
It's kind of a tough one for
people to swallow.
Well, and people are budging on
their prices, which is good.
You know, overall, the prices
haven't really dropped too, toomuch, really, because people just
don't want to give their homesaway here.
I mean, there's a lot of wealthhere in the Okanagan.
So I don't think people are reallyforced to sell.
We had a few listings up by ourplace here and people just they
took them off the market becausethey weren't willing to just give
(30:37):
them away and maybe they'll relistin the spring but not really
seeing people just giving theirhomes away they're just they're
keeping that there has not likewe've talked about this before but
like seeing like the medianarrative that there's just so
many distressed sellers when it'sjust not like that in reality like
no i totally agree with you thatmost people will just wait.
Yeah.
Right?
They'll just wait for the rightprice.
Yeah.
Obviously, there always are a few
here and there, but they're notenough to bring down the market.
(31:00):
No.
No. I mean, it's a pretty
desirable place to a prettydesirable place to live, as we all
know.
So I think it'll just be getting
better.
Even if you went to fire sale your
property, there's so many peopleon the sidelines, like pent up
demand waiting.
Yes.
It's not going to go for wayundervalued.
Like, you know, people are justgoing to start buying those if
there is value there.
So yeah.
(31:20):
All right.
If you could give your 20 year old
self any piece of advice, whatwould it be?
of advice, what would it be?Oh, that's a good question.
I think just working on buildingthose trusted business
relationships and partnershipsright from the start.
Kelowna has been a great area to,you know, build this business up.
There's a lot of good people thatwork here and we've built up a lot
of great relationships and trustedrelationships.
(31:41):
I think that's the number onething is just getting out there
and meeting people.
It goes a long ways in this
business, at least.
I I agree There are agree.
so a long Yeah, ways in thistotally.
at I agree.
business, least.
Yeah, I agree totally.
There are so many good
professionals in the Kelownamarket.
Like, I mean, I don't know anyother markets, but like from
lawyers to appraisers, likeeveryone here just seems to want
(32:01):
to work together collectively.
So yeah, it's nice to see.
Yeah.
What's your favorite charity or
how do you guys give back?We do charity for Can knox place
that's a good one for us also hadsome uh family history there too
so it's close to my heart sothat's a pretty good one that we
kind of focus on we've also helpedout and donate to ukraine um in
the past so there's quite a few soyou kind of have to select the
ones that you kind of stick withand go from there so good for for
you.
Those are awesome.
(32:22):
awesome.
All right, Derek, how can Taylor
or I help you stop sending themrush deals on a Friday?
No, I'll be here.
I'll get them out no matter what.
I mean, I guess just relaying yourexperience to other potential, you
know, clients or, you know, peoplethat you work with in the
industry, letting them know howyour experience has been with our
firm.
We operate a little differently
where we like to build up ourrelationships.
We feel like we're in the customerservice industry rather than just
(32:42):
providing a product for ourclients.
So we get on the phone, we'lldiscuss the values with them after
hours, before, when we get towork, anytime.
So it's always good to just,rather than send the appraisal
through, if you have anyquestions, we're there to answer
your questions and kind of justgive you a reasoning why we're
coming in where we are.
And yeah, we just want to have
that customer service level andjust go above and beyond for our
clients and pick up the phone,call them and build that
(33:04):
relationship up.
So that's why I think we stand out
a little bit more than some othersas we really focus on the customer
service part of our business andthe appraisal side.
Yeah, absolutely.
I can vouch for that.
You guys are incredible.
And, you know, for the cost of
transaction of, you know, buying amillion dollar house, the fee for
an appraisal is so small andcomparable that, you know, if
(33:24):
you're trying to save 50 bucksbetween one appraiser or the
other, like having somebody thatdoes the report correctly on time
provides it to allow you to removesubjects or just, you know,
highlights any issues with theproperty.
Like it's an insurance at thispoint, right?
Like it really is a necessaryinsurance.
So yeah, I've always appreciatedworking with you guys.
So thank you.
I appreciate that.
I think the second review processhelps the second review process
helps too, because you know, theodd thing can get missed in there.
(33:48):
So having that second set of eyesreally goes a long ways.
And from somebody that's actuallyfocusing on that specific market
also goes a long ways too.
So yeah.
Fantastic.
Well, thank you so much for
joining us Thanks today.
for Yeah.
having I appreciate me.
Yeah.
So you.
yeah.
Fantastic.
thank you so Well, much for
joining us today.
much for joining us Thanks today.
for Yeah.
having I appreciate me.
Yeah.
So you.
yeah.
Fantastic.
thank you so Well, much forjoining us today.
Yeah.
Thanks for having me.
(34:09):
Yeah.
I appreciate you.
So keep up the good work outthere.
As soon as you know of any, youknow, fire sales, let Matt and I
know about it.
Okay.
Well do take care of of guys.
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