Autism and Faith: Finding God’s Glory in Neurodiversity [Bonus Episode from the God on the Move Podcast]

We’re doing something different in this special episode—bringing you a feature from our friends at the God on the Move podcast.

God on the Move Podcast shares inspiring stories of faithful believers from the global church and will encourage you in your own faithful obedience to God’s global mission.

We will soon be switching to a new rhythm of releasing a Lausanne Movement Podcast episode every second week, with God on the Move publishing in the weeks between. We hope that this new rhythm allows you to enjoy both Podcasts.

Follow this link to God on the Move, where you can find links to your favourite podcasting platform and subscribe so you won't miss it when their episodes drop - https://lausanne.org/podcast-series/god-on-the-move

 

God on the Move Show Notes 

In this week's episode of 'God on the Move', Mainor Mora shares his inspiring journey connecting autism and faith. Mainor, a Bible translator from Costa Rica, opens up about his experiences of discovering his own autism after his son's diagnosis and how he navigated this new reality through scripture and acceptance. This episode dives deep into his ministry work in Equatorial Guinea and Mexico, his struggles and successes, and his sincere belief in God's purpose in neurodiversity. Mainor also discusses his book 'Jesus, the Samaritan Woman and Autism', community efforts, and how churches can be more inclusive of neurodiverse individuals. Join us to hear a powerful testament of vulnerability, understanding, and God's glory revealed through autism.

Mainor Mora Rodríguez is passionate about learning, service, and inclusion. Born in Palmares, Costa Rica, he overcame early challenges with speech and social interaction, finding solace in books and later in basketball. A career-ending injury led to a deep faith journey, shaping his mission to serve others. He has worked in Bible translation projects in Guinea, Ecuatorial, and Mexico and has trained indigenous leaders and translators. As the author of Jesus, the Samaritan Woman, and Autism, he advocates for greater inclusion of autistic individuals in the church, believing that a true Christian community embraces and empowers every person’s unique gifts.

Vivian Eberle-Cruz, Originally from Puerto Rico, has served in Mexico with SIL Global since 2000 alongside her husband. She is passionate about editing and translating exegetical resources for indigenous translators and linguistic publications, including dictionaries in Mexican languages and Spanish. She also helps lead the Potatoes Project, an initiative fostering self-awareness and unity in a multicultural community to glorify God in relationships. She enjoys interpreting and bridging connections between friends who speak different languages in her spare time.

Episode Transcript

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Hey there, podcast listeners.

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In this episode, we're doing something slightly different to what we normally do, bringing you a special feature from our friends at the God on the Move Podcast. 3 00:00:10,843.333333333 --> 00:00:23,593.333333333 God on the Move shares inspiring stories of faithful believers from across the global church, and we are convinced that this show will encourage you in your own faithful obedience in God's global mission. 4 00:00:24,24.558551169 --> 00:00:32,39.052154195 We are soon gonna be switching to a new rhythm of releasing Lizanne Movement podcast episodes every second week with Garden on the Move Publishing. 5 00:00:32,39.052154195 --> 00:00:38,624.744154195 In the weeks between, we hope that this new rhythm will allow you to get to enjoy both of the podcasts. 6 00:00:38,984.744154195 --> 00:00:41,594.744154195 You can find a link to Garden on the move in your show notes. 7 00:00:41,984.744154195 --> 00:00:45,164.744154195 Where you can subscribe so that you won't miss when the episode drops. 8 00:00:45,434.744154195 --> 00:00:53,264.744154195 But for now, we hope that you enjoy today's episode, and next week we'll be back with an interview from the Lizanne Movement Podcast. 9 00:00:53,504.744154195 --> 00:00:55,634.744154195 Until next week, cheers. 10 00:00:56,662.174920936 --> 00:01:10,412.074920936 I always say that my mother tongue was writing and reading. 11 00:01:10,802.074920936 --> 00:01:21,596.974920936 When I discovered that Christianity is really rooted into God's revelation in scripture, I realized that Christianity is not like a blind faith, it's a reading faith. 12 00:01:21,667.074920936 --> 00:01:26,597.074920936 So for me to process my condition has always been through reading scripture. 13 00:01:29,197.074920936 --> 00:01:38,867.074920936 Autism or autism spectrum disorder is a neurodevelopmental condition that affects how individuals communicate, interact socially and process information. 14 00:01:39,427.074920936 --> 00:01:49,197.07392094 It is called a spectrum disorder because it varies wildly in severity and presentation with some individuals requiring significant support while others live independently. 15 00:01:49,657.07492094 --> 00:01:59,937.07492094 Common traits of autism include differences in social communication, repetitive behaviours, intense hyper focus on specific interests, and sensitivity to sensory input. 16 00:02:00,757.07492094 --> 00:02:14,522.07392094 Christian perspectives on autism vary widely, with some viewing as a part of God's unique design for individuals, emphasizing love, inclusion, and support, while others may see it as a challenge to be overcome through faith and prayer. 17 00:02:16,872.07492094 --> 00:02:19,752.07492094 You are listening to the Lost Son Movement podcast. 18 00:02:19,902.07492094 --> 00:02:28,62.07492094 This Lost Son Movement production is part of a wider initiative dedicated to sharing testimonies of God's work across the world for every believer. 19 00:02:28,662.07492094 --> 00:02:31,292.07492094 And this is a story about autism and faith. 20 00:02:33,372.07492094 --> 00:02:35,561.97492094 The voice you heard earlier was Maina Mora. 21 00:02:35,562.07492094 --> 00:02:37,382.07492094 Well, to be honest, it was actually Vivian. 22 00:02:37,732.07492094 --> 00:02:41,212.07492094 Ila Cruz, who's kindly translating minor during this episode. 23 00:02:41,542.07492094 --> 00:02:48,512.07492094 Minor is an author bible translator and a champion of understanding autism and faith, and this is his story. 24 00:02:51,442.07492094 --> 00:02:53,572.07492094 Um, hello, my name is Manor Mora. 25 00:02:54,82.07492094 --> 00:02:55,852.07492094 It a pleasure for me just to be here with you. 26 00:02:56,2.07492094 --> 00:03:04,967.07492094 It was a surprise for me, uh, just to be asked to share about, um, what God has been doing in my life and what he's doing here in this side of the world, Latin America. 27 00:03:05,582.07492094 --> 00:03:12,822.07492094 I am from Costa Rica, and 18 years ago, I gave my life to the Lord in my town in Costa Rica called Palmares. 28 00:03:13,832.07492094 --> 00:03:25,296.97492094 My story has a lot to do about with God's sense of humor, because my first profession was industrial engineering, because I love processing, but I didn't feel well suited, like, to create. 29 00:03:25,297.07492094 --> 00:03:27,877.07492094 To be in constant interaction, uh, with people. 30 00:03:28,567.07492094 --> 00:03:32,767.07492094 Two years after becoming a believer, I got obsessed with reading the Bible. 31 00:03:32,947.07492094 --> 00:03:40,357.07492094 I read the Bible five times in two years, so I got, because of that, I got interested in linguistics and Bible translation. 32 00:03:40,387.07492094 --> 00:03:46,117.07492094 And 10 years after becoming a Christian, I started to work in Bible translation in Equatorial Guinea. 33 00:03:47,497.07492094 --> 00:03:48,127.07492094 What I didn't know. 34 00:03:48,592.07492094 --> 00:03:55,572.07492094 Um, at that time, I didn't know that at that time that there was a reason why I just love reading and processing. 35 00:03:56,642.07492094 --> 00:04:00,282.07492094 And the biggest challenge I have had always is relating to people. 36 00:04:00,502.07392094 --> 00:04:36,882.07392094 When my son was four years old, We discovered that my son is autistic, and at that point, the person who was doing the evaluation, uh, evaluating my son, autism usually is a genetic disorder, so we went for a diagnosis, and at the place where we were doing this, uh, this study, the doctor also said, I think your daughter is also autistic, I think we need to, you need to consider, uh, evaluating Yourself as parents, like a very significant trade for autistic people is that they love processes and they have, they struggle relating to people. 37 00:04:37,852.07492094 --> 00:04:40,132.07492094 I wonder, he's describing me. 38 00:04:42,212.07492094 --> 00:04:43,422.07492094 It made so much sense. 39 00:04:43,792.07392094 --> 00:04:46,482.07392094 It's been four years that I know that I'm also in the spectrum. 40 00:04:48,302.07492094 --> 00:04:53,202.07492094 I spent seven years in Equatorial Guinea and now we have been three years in Oaxaca, Mexico. 41 00:04:54,172.07492094 --> 00:05:01,572.07492094 Right now I work in virtual learning, training, uh, mother tongue translators, and I am also a viable translation consultant. 42 00:05:01,792.07492094 --> 00:05:10,382.07492094 And with some friends, besides the ministry that I just mentioned, um, I have a ministry with some friends from Chile that is called Autism and Faith. 43 00:05:10,462.07492094 --> 00:05:19,2.07492094 And in that ministry, we just work alongside families that have People, members who are in the spectrum, and it's interesting autism and faith. 44 00:05:19,32.07492094 --> 00:05:22,2.07492094 This ministry will also be three years old in a way. 45 00:05:22,462.07492094 --> 00:05:28,292.07492094 And it started when we came here, right now we are walking alongside 70 people in the autistic spectrum. 46 00:05:28,292.17492094 --> 00:05:33,592.07492094 And we just try to integrate their faith to their type within the neurodiversity spectrum. 47 00:05:35,2.07492094 --> 00:05:41,872.07492094 I cannot even begin to imagine what it's like for a parent to receive a diagnosis like this for one's child, let alone both children. 48 00:05:42,322.07492094 --> 00:05:46,172.07492094 But on top of that, Minor was also challenged to get himself tested. 49 00:05:46,442.07492094 --> 00:05:58,162.07492094 I was curious to know how Minor responded and how that one moment This is a very interesting question for me. 50 00:05:58,172.07492094 --> 00:06:00,632.07492094 My first reaction was, uh, denial. 51 00:06:00,822.07492094 --> 00:06:07,662.07492094 Uh, I remember at that time I was just really struggling with the idea about what psychology could do, uh, to help us. 52 00:06:07,692.07392094 --> 00:06:14,742.07492094 So, when we received the diagnosis, I just mentally, I just decided, no, I oppose the idea of receiving help that way. 53 00:06:15,102.07492094 --> 00:06:20,502.07492094 I didn't say before, but my wife, um, is a psychologist in a way. 54 00:06:20,672.07492094 --> 00:06:31,252.07492094 She works through training, uh, psycho, uh, the, the department, um, psychology that relates with education and training, but she had worked a lot with autistic children before. 55 00:06:31,302.07492094 --> 00:06:34,702.07492094 So as soon as she heard the diagnosis, she started to cry. 56 00:06:34,742.07492094 --> 00:06:34,982.07492094 So. 57 00:06:35,67.07492094 --> 00:06:40,747.07492094 At that point, we had three people diagnosed as autistic and a woman crying all in the same room. 58 00:06:41,567.07492094 --> 00:06:52,247.07492094 And when we left that room, I started to talk with her and I was saying, I don't think Lucas, uh, my son is autistic because he, he's just, he was just, he's just like I was. 59 00:06:52,742.07492094 --> 00:07:06,202.07492094 When I had his age, and I consider myself a very normal kid, and one of the things that just really took us to see this doctor is that he used to bang his head against me, and he didn't talk, and I told my wife, that's just normal. 60 00:07:06,252.07492094 --> 00:07:08,252.07492094 I started to talk when I was eight years old. 61 00:07:08,302.07492094 --> 00:07:16,547.07492094 I learned to read on my own when I was six, but only when I was I started to talk and when I was frustrated, I used to also bang my head against the wall. 62 00:07:16,697.07492094 --> 00:07:18,977.07492094 So I think that's just very common among kids. 63 00:07:19,117.07492094 --> 00:07:23,397.07492094 I was in total denial, but then my wife started to read and read and read. 64 00:07:23,527.07492094 --> 00:07:28,407.07492094 She started to take all kinds of courses online and I didn't want to know anything about it. 65 00:07:28,577.07392094 --> 00:07:30,496.97492094 The psychologist gave us a little book. 66 00:07:30,637.07492094 --> 00:07:35,707.07492094 And she read it in a week, my wife, and she told me, I really think you need to read this book. 67 00:07:35,747.07492094 --> 00:07:37,107.07492094 So I started to read the book. 68 00:07:37,167.07492094 --> 00:07:41,687.07392094 And I, I don't remember reading a book that was just so hopeless. 69 00:07:41,737.07492094 --> 00:07:49,997.07492094 The mom, uh, the mom in this book was just sharing about all the challenges she had with her son, to the point that they actually extract teeth. 70 00:07:50,777.07492094 --> 00:07:54,537.07492094 Uh, from the, from the child, because he used to bite himself all the time. 71 00:07:54,737.07492094 --> 00:07:56,447.07492094 I don't want to do that to my son. 72 00:07:56,627.07492094 --> 00:08:00,777.07492094 And I just could not see any trait of gospel or hope in that book. 73 00:08:00,867.07392094 --> 00:08:14,117.07492094 And I was just wondering, how can I embrace my condition and my son's condition, if there's no trace of the gospel in this situation? And many months passed by, and COVID hit, and we just could not leave the house. 74 00:08:14,387.07492094 --> 00:08:23,27.07492094 And God brought some Chilean friends to my life at that point, and they began to walk with us in the process of accepting our reality. 75 00:08:23,87.07492094 --> 00:08:30,887.07492094 And throughout different sessions and times together, they just help us just to discover the beauty of God's creativity in neurodiversity. 76 00:08:31,277.07492094 --> 00:08:38,617.07492094 And after one of these sessions, one of my friends asked if I just would consider doing a test online. 77 00:08:38,817.07492094 --> 00:08:41,217.07492094 So yeah, yeah, yeah, probably one day I will do it. 78 00:08:41,667.07492094 --> 00:08:48,105.01492094 And that night in the evening, I just sit in the bathroom with my computer, and I started to answer the questions that the test, the test. 79 00:08:48,105.01492094 --> 00:08:52,437.07392094 The first result was 98 percent probability that I was in the spectrum. 80 00:08:52,577.07492094 --> 00:08:54,757.07392094 Like, these tests are not reliable. 81 00:08:54,777.07492094 --> 00:08:58,977.07392094 I closed the computer and I told my wife, no, I don't really think I'm ready to do this kind of test. 82 00:08:59,537.07392094 --> 00:09:01,687.07492094 Three months later, I did the test again. 83 00:09:01,747.07492094 --> 00:09:05,697.07492094 I was just really hoping that this time it would just show that I was not autistic. 84 00:09:06,77.07492094 --> 00:09:09,791.97492094 99 percent probability that I was autistic. 85 00:09:12,402.07492094 --> 00:09:19,112.07492094 So with this test right in front of me, I told my wife that I was really considering now that I was in the spectrum. 86 00:09:19,162.07492094 --> 00:09:23,982.07492094 And for me, that was just like to realize that the gospel is God's peace. 87 00:09:24,342.07492094 --> 00:09:28,512.07392094 We have heard that through the sacrifice of Jesus, we have peace with the Father. 88 00:09:28,532.07492094 --> 00:09:32,252.07492094 We have also, we just can also listen to Jesus words and, and see. 89 00:09:32,567.07492094 --> 00:09:35,757.07492094 See that through the gospel, we can also have peace with other people. 90 00:09:36,397.07492094 --> 00:09:41,807.07492094 But something that I didn't understand until then is that the gospel also puts me at peace with myself. 91 00:09:41,827.07492094 --> 00:09:48,37.07492094 God made me autistic for his glory, and so that I can get to know him in a very different way. 92 00:09:48,227.07492094 --> 00:09:51,327.07392094 So I think this is how I will describe my process. 93 00:09:51,987.07492094 --> 00:09:56,647.07492094 To be completely honest, I was ever so slightly confused by one thing Minor shared. 94 00:09:56,937.07492094 --> 00:10:06,677.07492094 I can understand that it seems normal to him as a child to bang his head against a wall, but surely his parents must have understood that children shouldn't behave like this. 95 00:10:07,217.07492094 --> 00:10:10,587.07492094 So I wanted to know how they responded to his diagnosis. 96 00:10:11,107.07492094 --> 00:10:16,347.07492094 Mayno's answer shows once again that not all cultures deal with health issues in the same way. 97 00:10:20,997.07392094 --> 00:10:28,597.07592094 Maybe I also need to say that in Costa Rica, uh, there are many stereotypes or stigma around autism, even today. 98 00:10:32,827.07492094 --> 00:10:37,317.07492094 My mom passed away five years before we found out about my diagnosis. 99 00:10:37,317.17492094 --> 00:10:42,337.07492094 But I'm, I'm really sure that she knew that I was somehow different from my siblings. 100 00:10:42,337.17492094 --> 00:10:50,207.07392094 For example, I still remember I have that image of just seeing her, like, not really aware that I could actually understand. 101 00:10:53,817.07492094 --> 00:11:01,897.07492094 So just imagine about a six years old with a letter for his mom when she has never heard him talk. 102 00:11:01,897.17492094 --> 00:11:06,837.07492094 So I'm sure that she knew that I was different about my dad. 103 00:11:07,377.07492094 --> 00:11:12,107.07492094 This story is really different because years later my dad realized that he is autistic. 104 00:11:13,147.07492094 --> 00:11:24,487.07492094 His first impression was, um, I don't think you are autistic, but as the more he learned about it, he said, I just have no doubt anymore that you're autistic and that I am autistic. 105 00:11:25,717.07492094 --> 00:11:34,327.07392094 Regarding my siblings, the more they also learn about it, the more they will just make sense of the differences that we have as we were growing up. 106 00:11:36,67.07492094 --> 00:11:44,247.07492094 I remember talking with my My friends about this topic, I was so afraid and so ashamed of talking with them about it. 107 00:11:44,807.07492094 --> 00:11:49,727.07392094 The friend who shared about Jesus with me while we were at university, he's the first one I asked. 108 00:11:49,817.07492094 --> 00:11:59,217.07492094 I asked him, you know, I think, uh, I'm just, I'm really considering that I might be in the spectrum and I wanted to ask you if you think you have seen or noticed something different about me. 109 00:11:59,687.07492094 --> 00:12:02,157.07492094 And I, he told me, I'm going to save you a lot of money. 110 00:12:02,337.07492094 --> 00:12:05,937.07492094 We have always thought, we always knew you were the different one. 111 00:12:06,307.07492094 --> 00:12:08,627.07492094 The only one who is not really sure about it is you. 112 00:12:09,737.07492094 --> 00:12:12,657.07492094 But to talk about this in church was very complicated. 113 00:12:13,217.07492094 --> 00:12:16,297.07492094 This was the youth group pastor at the time. 114 00:12:16,517.07492094 --> 00:12:24,427.07492094 And Latin America, we have this expectation or stereotype that the pastors always know they have everything under control and everything is fine with them. 115 00:12:24,677.07492094 --> 00:12:29,57.07492094 And I was just thinking, if I just tell them that I'm in the spectrum, I don't really know how. 116 00:12:29,122.07492094 --> 00:12:33,422.07492094 People will just react, and that was the case in some instances. 117 00:12:33,432.07492094 --> 00:12:42,112.07492094 Some people just, just went away, but I was just then surprised when then suddenly more people started to learn more about that, about autism. 118 00:12:43,402.07392094 --> 00:12:46,682.07392094 And we started to have a closer relationship with these people. 119 00:12:49,232.07492094 --> 00:12:54,32.07492094 Yeah, it opened like a really wonderful door that is called being vulnerable. 120 00:12:55,72.07492094 --> 00:12:59,702.07492094 At that point, I didn't really know what it implies to be an autistic person. 121 00:13:02,312.07392094 --> 00:13:03,872.07392094 I had more questions than answers. 122 00:13:04,467.07492094 --> 00:13:12,137.07492094 But the people who love me and really appreciate me, they just really saw this as like a bridge that was established between them and us. 123 00:13:12,867.07492094 --> 00:13:17,297.07492094 I don't need to have all the answers, I don't need to know it all, and that's okay. 124 00:13:17,807.07492094 --> 00:13:25,737.07492094 I think my life has just been in a way like an instrument for them, just to remind them the importance of knowing yourself so you then can know God better. 125 00:13:32,987.07492094 --> 00:13:43,237.07492094 It must be an absolutely life changing moment when one finds out that all the things that that person had been considering normal for decades turn out to be abnormal. 126 00:13:43,587.07492094 --> 00:13:48,267.07492094 In a sense, it turns your life and the way you think about yourself upside down. 127 00:13:48,332.17492094 --> 00:13:55,922.07492094 I always say that my mother tongue was writing and reading. 128 00:13:56,272.07492094 --> 00:14:06,862.07492094 When I discovered that Christianity is really rooted into God's revelation in Scripture, I realized that Christianity is not like a blind faith, it's a reading faith. 129 00:14:07,182.07392094 --> 00:14:12,142.07492094 So for me to process my condition has always been through reading Scripture. 130 00:14:12,492.07492094 --> 00:14:19,242.07492094 So I started to write notes, uh, throughout the process about what I was discovering about myself and what I was discovering about God. 131 00:14:19,982.07492094 --> 00:14:23,772.07492094 A key moment for me was to be able to meet this couple from Chile. 132 00:14:23,822.07492094 --> 00:14:28,812.07492094 Just go there and meet them for the first time in person after they have been working with me online. 133 00:14:28,902.07492094 --> 00:14:32,752.07492094 Uh, one day we were just around the table and then we started to talk about faith. 134 00:14:32,942.07492094 --> 00:14:34,92.07492094 Just asking really. 135 00:14:34,447.07492094 --> 00:14:35,967.07492094 Fundamental key questions. 136 00:14:36,177.07492094 --> 00:14:45,547.07492094 How much do I actually know God for what I see in his word and how much I just have learned just because I have been trying to fit in within the church. 137 00:14:45,737.07492094 --> 00:14:51,767.07392094 And there was just like this snowball of questions coming, getting more and more about this, this idea. 138 00:14:51,897.07392094 --> 00:14:57,737.07392094 One of the characteristics of autistic people, at least in my case, is when I just find something is fixation. 139 00:14:57,977.07392094 --> 00:15:03,797.07392094 When I just find something I'm really interested about, I just start talking about it nonstop and I just can't share like. 140 00:15:04,522.07492094 --> 00:15:09,762.07492094 It's so much information that it can be overwhelming for the people around me with my wife at home. 141 00:15:10,92.07492094 --> 00:15:12,142.07492094 We just have what we call this sacred minute. 142 00:15:12,872.07492094 --> 00:15:18,52.07392094 I call it the segment of no one asked me, but anyway, I will just share about it. 143 00:15:18,452.07492094 --> 00:15:26,692.07492094 And at that moment with my friends, I had one of these sacred minute moments where No one asked me about this, but I'm going to share about it anyway. 144 00:15:27,192.07492094 --> 00:15:31,712.07492094 And suddenly I started just to make sense of different situations in my life. 145 00:15:32,532.07492094 --> 00:15:43,642.07392094 Um, and I shared about them in the conversation with them and the friend that the wife of this couple, this friend, she said, you know, I think you should really consider writing this down, what you are just sharing now. 146 00:15:43,902.07392094 --> 00:15:46,282.07492094 And I told her, yeah, I'm probably, I will do it one day. 147 00:15:46,552.07492094 --> 00:15:50,482.07492094 The next day, early morning, I began to write four or five hours. 148 00:15:50,862.07492094 --> 00:15:53,892.07492094 And the chapter that I wrote is called Autism and Faith. 149 00:15:54,152.07492094 --> 00:16:01,542.07492094 I, in that, and that chapter, I just summarized what it was for me to get to know the Lord and to live in a community of faith. 150 00:16:01,862.07492094 --> 00:16:05,162.07442094 And I suddenly realized, I just feel like naked in front of this page. 151 00:16:05,162.07442094 --> 00:16:08,92.07392094 It was just like, we see my life on this paper. 152 00:16:08,92.07392094 --> 00:16:10,382.07492094 And now we're just waiting for my wife to wake up. 153 00:16:10,382.07492094 --> 00:16:14,392.07492094 And I remember that I told her, look what I just happened to find here. 154 00:16:14,412.17492094 --> 00:16:23,322.07492094 50 pages of my life and for me, I think this was just really key to be able just to write about this. 155 00:16:23,932.07492094 --> 00:16:33,31.97492094 It's the only way I just can find that I just can process something and when I can process that way then I can assimilate what I'm writing about. 156 00:16:33,372.07492094 --> 00:16:38,92.07492094 My wife started to read it and I remember that we just both started to cry. 157 00:16:38,432.07492094 --> 00:16:42,102.0749209 And I remember she said, this is like very personal. 158 00:16:42,312.0749209 --> 00:16:48,242.0739209 And I think maybe you should just, you should share it with the people who are very important or significant for you. 159 00:16:48,502.0739209 --> 00:16:56,492.0749209 And then I asked myself, what are people going to, what are they going to think of me? And I would just, I'm sharing really a lot of personal information here. 160 00:16:56,792.0749209 --> 00:17:02,852.0749209 Then my wife asked me to share it with my pastor that I have, we have known each other for 18 years. 161 00:17:03,462.0749209 --> 00:17:08,802.0749209 So I was really nervous, um, at that point, just considering sharing it with my pastor. 162 00:17:09,22.0739209 --> 00:17:13,852.0739209 But I sent it to him and I kept waiting in WhatsApp just to see if he had seen it. 163 00:17:14,102.0749209 --> 00:17:20,982.0749209 He said, what is he going to think of me? And I remember his answer, his reply was, uh, this looks like the first chapter of a book. 164 00:17:21,817.0749209 --> 00:17:25,977.0749209 And then I told myself, I think this was a good idea after all. 165 00:17:26,327.0749209 --> 00:17:29,557.0749209 So I began to write the book and I wrote it in five days. 166 00:17:29,737.0749209 --> 00:17:33,97.0749209 Um, the title is Jesus, the Samaritan woman and autism. 167 00:17:33,487.0739209 --> 00:17:38,937.0749209 And I think this book was what really helped me to close this cycle of accepting who I am. 168 00:17:39,437.0739209 --> 00:17:48,742.0749209 At this point, I jokingly mentioned that if he's written his first book in five days only, Then I had to assume that he's now got about 5, 000 publications. 169 00:17:49,302.0749209 --> 00:17:54,352.0749209 It's something interesting, it's called hyperfocus, another characteristic in some autistic people. 170 00:17:54,442.0739209 --> 00:17:56,92.0749209 I assumed that everyone had that. 171 00:17:56,122.0749209 --> 00:18:03,282.0749209 I remember when I started to learn Hebrew, I just did it every day, morning, afternoon, even throughout five years. 172 00:18:03,422.0739209 --> 00:18:08,477.0749209 And I remember asking my professor, normal, right? This is what is expected from us. 173 00:18:08,797.0749209 --> 00:18:11,167.0749209 She told me it's not normal. 174 00:18:11,657.0749209 --> 00:18:16,367.0749209 I started to read it happened as well with, uh, I started to study revelations for my master's degree. 175 00:18:16,437.0739209 --> 00:18:19,687.0739209 And the professor said, I think you need to read this book several times. 176 00:18:19,757.0749209 --> 00:18:21,487.0749209 I read up revelations. 177 00:18:21,602.0749209 --> 00:18:23,472.0749209 Every day for two years. 178 00:18:23,782.0749209 --> 00:18:27,342.0749209 And I thought this is what the professor was asking me to do. 179 00:18:27,372.0749209 --> 00:18:30,222.0749209 Well, it's called hyperfocus during those five days. 180 00:18:30,232.0739209 --> 00:18:44,12.0749209 When I was writing the book, I asked my wife for permission to, I asked her for permission just to be present and I physically present, but mentally absent only five days, but I was asking for, I have studied already carefully. 181 00:18:44,42.0749209 --> 00:18:47,202.0749209 Just the story between the Samaritan woman and Jesus. 182 00:18:47,512.0749209 --> 00:18:51,62.0749209 But to be able to, to write about it, it was just like therapy. 183 00:18:51,202.0749209 --> 00:18:55,652.0749209 It's a time when I just found how my story and her story just connected. 184 00:18:55,692.0749209 --> 00:19:04,802.0749209 What I wanted to do with this book is was just to share with people something very different from what I received in that very first book I received, uh, when my son was diagnosed. 185 00:19:09,952.0739209 --> 00:19:16,822.0749209 Before we continue with the story, I want to let you know that you can now join the God on the Move community on the Lausanne Action Hub. 186 00:19:17,422.0749209 --> 00:19:21,942.0749209 Be part of the conversation, see exclusive content and share your own testimony. 187 00:19:22,442.0749209 --> 00:19:25,882.0749209 You can find the link to join the community in the podcast description. 188 00:19:26,542.0749209 --> 00:19:32,2.0749209 Also, if you have a story to share or know someone who might have, please contact us at podcastatlausan. 189 00:19:33,572.0749209 --> 00:19:33,602.0749209 org. 190 00:19:34,22.0749209 --> 00:19:35,912.0749209 That is podcastatlausan. 191 00:19:35,922.0749209 --> 00:19:36,142.0749209 org. 192 00:19:39,382.0749209 --> 00:19:44,202.0749209 In that first book, there were just these keywords coming over and over, deficit. 193 00:19:44,592.0749209 --> 00:19:48,342.0749209 Uh, limitations, weaknesses, challenges, disorder. 194 00:19:48,562.0749209 --> 00:19:51,102.0749209 But I wanted to talk about autism in a different way. 195 00:19:51,102.0749209 --> 00:19:53,32.0749209 I wanted to talk about grace. 196 00:19:53,392.0749209 --> 00:20:00,332.0749209 I wanted to talk about love, acceptance, creativity, neurodiversity, and building bridges of love. 197 00:20:00,382.0749209 --> 00:20:01,882.0749209 And after five days, I finished. 198 00:20:02,382.0749209 --> 00:20:03,622.0749209 sharing about my story. 199 00:20:03,642.0749209 --> 00:20:06,432.0749209 But really, there are three stories within the book. 200 00:20:06,442.0749209 --> 00:20:12,362.0749209 First, I talk about my experience as a missionary in Africa, sharing the story about Jesus and the Samaritan woman. 201 00:20:12,402.0749209 --> 00:20:20,52.0749209 But I also talk about, um, the glory of God and the way how he created so much diversity among people. 202 00:20:20,242.0749209 --> 00:20:25,507.0749209 And when I finished the book, I also, I shared the book with my wife and my friends from autism and faith. 203 00:20:25,717.0749209 --> 00:20:29,787.0749209 And that was about the time when we were coming to Mexico to serve in Bible translation. 204 00:20:30,37.0749209 --> 00:20:32,177.0749209 I didn't have a lot of money to print these books. 205 00:20:32,537.0749209 --> 00:20:37,627.0749209 And I said, well, I would just check with Christian publishing companies to see if they will, they're willing to help. 206 00:20:37,687.0739209 --> 00:20:39,677.0749209 I asked seven different companies. 207 00:20:39,687.0739209 --> 00:20:43,567.0749209 One of them told me you need to have at least 5, 000 followers in Instagram. 208 00:20:43,577.0749209 --> 00:20:45,97.0749209 He said, I think I have four. 209 00:20:45,147.0749209 --> 00:20:46,817.0749209 So they said that wasn't enough. 210 00:20:46,907.0749209 --> 00:20:55,517.0749209 All the other ones also said no for different reasons, and one of them actually told me this is about autism and disability that that's not that doesn't sell at all. 211 00:20:55,547.0749209 --> 00:21:01,707.0739209 If you will have something more about personal growth or development, maybe you will have more an opportunity. 212 00:21:02,327.0749209 --> 00:21:06,547.0749209 At that point, I said, well, maybe probably no one will just be able to read this after all. 213 00:21:06,577.0749209 --> 00:21:12,517.0749209 But then one friend told me, have you considered just trying it, Amazon, to do it through Amazon? I said, okay, I'll just give it a try. 214 00:21:12,587.0749209 --> 00:21:16,577.0739209 Amazon told me I needed the ISBN number from Costa Rica. 215 00:21:16,607.0739209 --> 00:21:17,967.0749209 He said, we were already in Mexico. 216 00:21:17,967.0749209 --> 00:21:19,267.0749209 We were not even there anymore. 217 00:21:19,277.0749209 --> 00:21:23,817.0749209 And I know there is bureaucracy everywhere, but in Latin America, it's something else. 218 00:21:23,817.0749209 --> 00:21:28,127.0749209 So I sent an email to the National Library. 219 00:21:28,277.0749209 --> 00:21:31,437.0749209 My country and they told me three things is expensive. 220 00:21:31,487.0749209 --> 00:21:34,127.0749209 It will take a long time and we need to read the book first. 221 00:21:34,407.0749209 --> 00:21:37,247.0749209 I was really discouraged by that, but I sent the book anyway. 222 00:21:37,257.0749209 --> 00:21:39,547.0749209 We had a very liberal government at the time. 223 00:21:39,597.0749209 --> 00:21:43,257.0749209 And the title of the book is Jesus, the Samaritan woman and autism. 224 00:21:43,327.0739209 --> 00:21:47,457.0739209 So five days later, they actually, uh, sent an email. 225 00:21:47,507.0749209 --> 00:21:52,647.0749209 They read the book and the employees of the library decided among themselves. 226 00:21:52,662.0749209 --> 00:21:55,802.0749209 to pay so I could have the ISBN. 227 00:21:55,842.0749209 --> 00:22:02,392.0739209 And I, then I realized God really wants this project to come, uh, to be able to be shared this with the world. 228 00:22:02,432.0749209 --> 00:22:06,642.0749209 And one day we did a live on Facebook with our friends from autism and faith. 229 00:22:06,702.0749209 --> 00:22:16,22.0749209 Those who were just with us in the process of accepting my diagnostic, we were only four people at the live episode on Facebook, the two of them and my wife. 230 00:22:16,817.0749209 --> 00:22:18,147.0749209 No publicity, nothing. 231 00:22:18,157.0749209 --> 00:22:19,447.0749209 And we just talk about the book. 232 00:22:19,477.0749209 --> 00:22:35,367.0739209 And suddenly at the point where we were just sharing, we have thousand people connected, but I was even still thinking, well, one thing is to have thousand people watching, but other thing is just to sell one book three weeks after this, uh, live Amazon sent me an email. 233 00:22:35,457.0749209 --> 00:22:44,477.0749209 I really thought it was a problem with it, or there's a problem with the cover or just telling me, you know what? We, we, we cannot really do something about this book. 234 00:22:44,527.0749209 --> 00:22:51,917.0739209 And the email was just to tell me that it was the most sold book in those weeks in Amazon in Spanish. 235 00:22:51,917.0749209 --> 00:23:01,157.0739209 But for me, really, what really impacted me was not how many books were sold, but it was really the fact that there were people who have never been in a Christian church before that they were writing. 236 00:23:01,167.0739209 --> 00:23:05,457.0749209 But they started to read the book because it's the title had autism on it. 237 00:23:05,987.0749209 --> 00:23:08,667.0749209 And they ended up meeting Jesus as their savior. 238 00:23:08,827.0749209 --> 00:23:09,337.0749209 We heard. 239 00:23:09,832.0749209 --> 00:23:18,312.0739209 Pastors who have children who are autistic, who are really embarrassed and ashamed and didn't want people in their churches to know that their child was autistic. 240 00:23:18,462.0749209 --> 00:23:25,12.0749209 And these pastors to receive emails from them saying, there's no, we don't have to be ashamed of this anymore. 241 00:23:25,42.0749209 --> 00:23:27,382.0739209 My son is autistic for God's glory. 242 00:23:27,582.0749209 --> 00:23:33,152.0749209 When I started to write the book, I did it thinking that my son will probably read it, maybe 15 years later. 243 00:23:33,202.0749209 --> 00:23:35,492.0749209 And I just really saw it as a legacy for my. 244 00:23:35,827.0749209 --> 00:23:38,897.0749209 But I discovered that God's plans are always bigger. 245 00:23:39,897.0749209 --> 00:23:44,437.0749209 For anyone who hasn't read Minor's book yet, I don't think this is too much of a spoiler. 246 00:23:45,17.0749209 --> 00:23:51,237.0739209 Prior to my conversation with Minor, I also wasn't aware of his book and I was still able to enjoy every single bit of it. 247 00:23:51,657.0749209 --> 00:23:56,907.0749209 Perhaps even more so after hearing the answer to a question I had after what he just shared. 248 00:23:57,167.0749209 --> 00:24:09,402.0749209 How have you seen God's glory revealed through your autism? For me, it has just been wonderful to take off this weight of prejudice off my shoulders. 249 00:24:09,652.0749209 --> 00:24:14,572.0749209 I have friends who, when they get to know me more, they say, you don't really look like autist. 250 00:24:14,682.0749209 --> 00:24:17,392.0739209 I know that very deep inside, they just want to be kind. 251 00:24:17,982.0739209 --> 00:24:19,742.0749209 They try to be kind when they say that. 252 00:24:19,792.0739209 --> 00:24:23,202.0739209 And they think most of autistic people are like Sheldon Cooper. 253 00:24:23,302.0739209 --> 00:24:26,982.0739209 And there is a lot to do about trying to change these stereotypes. 254 00:24:27,192.0749209 --> 00:24:33,697.0749209 I think I can say that I can see God's glory, uh, in me through strengths and weaknesses. 255 00:24:34,57.0749209 --> 00:24:35,637.0749209 I will just divide it that way. 256 00:24:35,787.0749209 --> 00:24:43,737.0749209 I think the autistic mind has this strength in being able just to look at details in a very special way, to be able to go very deep in a topic. 257 00:24:44,77.0749209 --> 00:25:01,657.0749209 So I remember when I was in the process of trying to become a certified as a translation consultant, I remember that after a year, Uh, working on this, I remember that I managed to do consulting work in 400 chapters of the Bible in 400 hours. 258 00:25:01,867.0749209 --> 00:25:06,117.0749209 And someone asked me, why did you do all this work? And for me, it was fun. 259 00:25:06,457.0749209 --> 00:25:08,697.0739209 So I think there are some strengths that we have. 260 00:25:08,737.0739209 --> 00:25:12,377.0749209 But at the same time, I don't want to give this romantic view of autism. 261 00:25:12,417.0749209 --> 00:25:13,647.0749209 We do have challenges. 262 00:25:13,917.0749209 --> 00:25:18,47.0749209 And, and it's the condition that sometimes is just really debilitating. 263 00:25:18,57.0749209 --> 00:25:21,147.0749209 It just really limitates, uh, limits how, what you can do. 264 00:25:21,357.0749209 --> 00:25:30,687.0739209 I can revise, uh, or check, consultant checks 400 chapters of scripture in one year, but I will never be able to meet 400 new people in a year. 265 00:25:30,727.0739209 --> 00:25:35,897.0749209 Sometimes when I have like a very complex or difficult conversation, I need the week to recover from that. 266 00:25:36,2.0749209 --> 00:25:43,2.0749209 I have like serious challenges with Alexithymia, not all autistic people have it, but I do have it. 267 00:25:43,32.0749209 --> 00:25:46,22.0749209 I have, and this has to do with having a challenge. 268 00:25:46,42.0749209 --> 00:25:51,632.0749209 It's challenge, it's hard for me to recognize or acknowledge my own emotions and other people's emotions. 269 00:25:51,797.0749209 --> 00:25:52,337.0749209 around me. 270 00:25:52,397.0749209 --> 00:26:01,647.0749209 And I just remember at times when I was doing counseling with my wife and with other people and we were just sharing and I would just say something like in a very direct way somewhat. 271 00:26:01,697.0749209 --> 00:26:04,777.0749209 I'm really good at telling other people what they need to do or not. 272 00:26:04,877.0739209 --> 00:26:07,607.0749209 And the person who was receiving the counseling was crying. 273 00:26:07,627.0739209 --> 00:26:10,67.0739209 And I thought that if she's crying, I'm doing a good job. 274 00:26:10,137.0749209 --> 00:26:13,557.0749209 And I remember later talking with my wife about it and I was really happy. 275 00:26:13,557.0749209 --> 00:26:17,152.0749209 Did you see she was crying? And my wife was Really kind. 276 00:26:17,522.0749209 --> 00:26:21,492.0749209 She told me, um, I don't really think it's a good idea to make people cry every time. 277 00:26:21,632.0749209 --> 00:26:36,342.0739209 So we do have challenges as we really, um, the biggest challenge I see with autism is that, for example, if someone in a wheelchair wants to go to church, we see they're coming in a wheelchair and we just put a ramp or something so they can go into church. 278 00:26:36,442.0739209 --> 00:26:40,402.0749209 We know that the ramp will make it easier for them to go into the temple. 279 00:26:40,432.0749209 --> 00:26:42,162.0749209 It's just a reasonable thing to do. 280 00:26:42,642.0749209 --> 00:26:46,402.0749209 The challenge that we have with autism is that you cannot see it. 281 00:26:46,532.0749209 --> 00:26:52,752.0739209 So therefore the adjustments that we actually need as autistic people are not necessarily visible for other people. 282 00:26:52,912.0749209 --> 00:26:58,752.0739209 So we have strengths and we also have weaknesses, but in both areas I have seen God's glory. 283 00:26:58,812.0749209 --> 00:27:03,592.0749209 In my needs, in my weaknesses, and in times when I need to adjust things. 284 00:27:03,937.0749209 --> 00:27:07,47.0749209 I have seen how people then can acknowledge their own weaknesses. 285 00:27:07,607.0749209 --> 00:27:10,87.0749209 As I do it, I see how other people then start doing. 286 00:27:10,137.0749209 --> 00:27:13,187.0739209 And that has made possible that we just talk at a deeper level. 287 00:27:13,337.0749209 --> 00:27:16,407.0749209 So I have seen God's glory in both areas of my life. 288 00:27:17,187.0749209 --> 00:27:18,477.0749209 Now, this made me wonder. 289 00:27:18,897.0749209 --> 00:27:25,477.0749209 More and more churches are becoming aware of the fact that they are actually excluding people just by the way their facilities are set up. 290 00:27:26,57.0749209 --> 00:27:29,367.0749209 And so they aspire to be, for example, more wheelchair accessible. 291 00:27:30,202.0749209 --> 00:27:43,232.0739209 But what about autistic people? Is there anything churches and other ministries can do to be more welcoming to those with autism? I'm, I just love Jesus. 292 00:27:43,292.0749209 --> 00:27:48,462.0739209 I just love the stories or the encounters of Jesus with people and how he just built bridges. 293 00:27:49,877.0749209 --> 00:27:51,167.0749209 to, to relate to them. 294 00:27:51,197.0749209 --> 00:27:55,137.0749209 Jesus doesn't engage Peter in the same way he engaged the Samaritan woman. 295 00:27:55,267.0749209 --> 00:27:58,807.0749209 Jesus doesn't talk with Bartimaeus the same way he does with Simon. 296 00:27:58,937.0749209 --> 00:28:06,207.0749209 Actually, even as Jesus engages with different women, we can see in the stories that he, he doesn't even do it the same way with all of them. 297 00:28:06,297.0749209 --> 00:28:10,157.0749209 I have been invited to different events where people ask me the question you just asked. 298 00:28:10,537.0749209 --> 00:28:18,817.0739209 What are the 10 things I need to know, uh, how I can engage or relate to autistic people? As if we will just come with a new sermon one. 299 00:28:19,127.0749209 --> 00:28:25,757.0749209 When people ask me, give me like five strategies to, to make possible that autistic people will come to church. 300 00:28:25,957.0749209 --> 00:28:31,547.0749209 It's true that there are certain characteristics that we all autistic people share or have in common. 301 00:28:31,757.0749209 --> 00:28:35,697.0749209 Nevertheless, I think it's important to say that we have different needs. 302 00:28:37,377.0749209 --> 00:28:44,707.0749209 Something that I really like about Jesus and the Samaritan woman is not that Jesus doesn't have a monologue with her, there is a dialogue. 303 00:28:44,717.0749209 --> 00:28:46,567.0739209 He lets her just share. 304 00:28:46,677.0739209 --> 00:28:48,647.0739209 He wants to listen to her concerns. 305 00:28:48,697.0749209 --> 00:28:51,537.0739209 He wants to know what she thinks of God, what she believes. 306 00:28:51,797.0739209 --> 00:28:53,316.9749209 He wants to know how she relates to God. 307 00:28:53,317.0749209 --> 00:28:56,377.0749209 To the people around her and even ask her about politics. 308 00:28:56,437.0749209 --> 00:29:02,747.0749209 For me, something that is really key is to be able to understand the person with all the things that make him who he is. 309 00:29:03,147.0749209 --> 00:29:08,647.0739209 So something that I can share with the church is that Jesus brought us to church already. 310 00:29:08,937.0749209 --> 00:29:13,917.0749209 Autistic people don't come from Mars, not from a lab, not from TV series. 311 00:29:14,107.0749209 --> 00:29:21,667.0749209 If it's estimated that 33 percent of the whole world population is within the spectrum, we could probably think that 33%. 312 00:29:21,682.0749209 --> 00:29:25,12.0749209 of the church population is also within the spectrum. 313 00:29:25,12.0749209 --> 00:29:28,722.0749209 Christ brought us, uh, to, he attracted us to himself already. 314 00:29:28,752.0749209 --> 00:29:35,552.0739209 I, what I really think is that good information with good intentions, it will give us true inclusion. 315 00:29:35,702.0749209 --> 00:29:40,146.9749209 Bad information with good intentions will only build a wall. 316 00:29:40,377.0749209 --> 00:29:44,487.0749209 So it will be important to get good information about this. 317 00:29:44,617.0749209 --> 00:29:47,857.0749209 We should listen to autistic people, adults. 318 00:29:48,117.0749209 --> 00:29:49,327.0749209 For us, it was a challenge. 319 00:29:49,347.0749209 --> 00:30:15,872.0739209 For example, in Facebook, we have a group for Christian autistic people, and we listened to them and we asked What has been your experience in church as an autistic person? And we have heard really painful things, very challenging situations, but it's really important that we listen to this, uh, kind of, uh, critical, constructive criticism to get to know the person as a person and their stories. 320 00:30:16,22.0739209 --> 00:30:18,322.0739209 It's like a certain kind of confrontation. 321 00:30:18,382.0739209 --> 00:30:20,262.0739209 Something that we really need to be aware of. 322 00:30:20,452.0749209 --> 00:30:26,952.0749209 God is not calling us to be the shepherds or the pastors of institutions or organizations. 323 00:30:27,282.0749209 --> 00:30:32,402.0749209 He's calling us to be the shepherds or the pastors of people with real needs. 324 00:30:32,762.0749209 --> 00:30:37,292.0749209 And we are called to evaluate and, uh, our traditions and institutions. 325 00:30:37,532.0749209 --> 00:30:51,502.0749209 Are we really examples of true inclusion of real inclusion? Do we know what it implies to be autistic for someone? Are we really willing to believe that there is God's glory? in diversity. 326 00:30:51,672.0749209 --> 00:31:09,972.0749209 Are we willing to let God confront our prejudices and preconceptions? I really think in the long run it's worth it because in very mysterious ways God is just expanding his kingdom among people in the spectrum and we want to be part of what God is doing. 327 00:31:10,982.0749209 --> 00:31:17,12.0749209 What I can tell you is that God is extending his kingdom in ways that we never ever thought possible. 328 00:31:17,52.0749209 --> 00:31:18,862.0739209 I think pretty every week. 329 00:31:19,617.0749209 --> 00:31:24,887.0749209 Since maybe like three years ago, we have seen how people are just making peace with themselves. 330 00:31:24,927.0749209 --> 00:31:27,237.0749209 We're just coming to terms with who they are. 331 00:31:27,337.0749209 --> 00:31:38,277.0749209 One of the examples that just stay in my mind about is someone in a church in Latin America who have not talked with his son for seven years, every time they talk, they will just end up in an argument. 332 00:31:38,287.0749209 --> 00:31:43,987.0749209 He, he was already suspected that he's autistic, but he's 64 years old. 333 00:31:44,67.0749209 --> 00:31:46,957.0749209 His wife bought my book and forced him to read. 334 00:31:47,42.0749209 --> 00:31:50,442.0749209 Like my wife with me at the beginning, and he read the book in one day. 335 00:31:50,502.0749209 --> 00:31:53,562.0749209 And after seven years, he decided he could just contact his son again. 336 00:31:53,672.0749209 --> 00:32:01,352.0749209 And for me, it was a beautiful testimony because I could really see how a bridge of love was built among them. 337 00:32:01,382.0749209 --> 00:32:08,122.0749209 And the son then confessed to his dad that he was less autistic, but he didn't know how to tell his dad. 338 00:32:08,212.0749209 --> 00:32:12,692.0749209 So that's what I just say, that I think God is expanding his kingdom among people. 339 00:32:13,332.0749209 --> 00:32:16,692.0749209 Uh, we are in the spectrum in a very non traditional ways. 340 00:32:17,22.0749209 --> 00:32:20,272.0749209 I mean, just thinking about these women who pay for the ISBN. 341 00:32:20,282.0749209 --> 00:32:25,262.0739209 So I just could publish the book to be invited to places where there are no believers. 342 00:32:25,272.0749209 --> 00:32:35,412.0749209 I have been able to talk with people who are really, uh, uh, trying to champion for autism or autistic people, but they want nothing to do with God. 343 00:32:35,462.0749209 --> 00:32:38,542.0749209 And they invite me to talk about how Jesus approached Samaritan. 344 00:32:38,892.0739209 --> 00:32:42,772.0739209 I have been invited in this last year to more non Christian events than Christian. 345 00:32:43,362.0749209 --> 00:32:51,2.0749209 People who, because they are autistic, declare themselves on social media as anti God and anti faith. 346 00:32:51,292.0749209 --> 00:33:00,132.0749209 They're writing and asking, how can you actually connect faith and autism? God keeps working in mysterious ways, in us, through us, and in spite of us. 347 00:33:01,12.0749209 --> 00:33:05,732.0749209 I could hear Maynard talking about autism and his faith and God's glory for hours. 348 00:33:06,232.0749209 --> 00:33:10,262.0749209 And as it so happens, Maynard works for a ministry called Autism and Faith. 349 00:33:10,812.0749209 --> 00:33:13,292.0749209 And so I wanted to learn more about that as well. 350 00:33:16,292.0749209 --> 00:33:21,832.0739209 Autism and faith is this ministry that we have with my wife and this other couple from Chile. 351 00:33:22,392.0739209 --> 00:33:27,142.0739209 One of the key aspects of our ministry is just sharing about autism. 352 00:33:27,442.0749209 --> 00:33:32,742.0749209 We meet once per month and talk about different, uh, specific aspects of autism. 353 00:33:33,182.0749209 --> 00:33:39,272.0749209 For example, this month we will be talking about how do we just express friendship according to what scripture says. 354 00:33:39,737.0749209 --> 00:33:42,477.0749209 and how autistic people express friendship. 355 00:33:42,907.0749209 --> 00:33:49,607.0749209 We listen to the community that we already have and try to talk about the topics that they bring up or suggest. 356 00:33:50,107.0749209 --> 00:33:55,297.0749209 But most of the time that we spend with people is just walking alongside with them. 357 00:33:55,822.0749209 --> 00:34:10,462.0749209 Many of the people that we work with are just coming because they want to know, they want to learn how can I just support my son or my daughter in the diagnosis and we just support the families in those initial stages. 358 00:34:10,782.0749209 --> 00:34:15,682.0749209 In the case of my wife and I, we are spending now more and more time with couples. 359 00:34:16,447.0749209 --> 00:34:20,417.0749209 One of them is autistic, so we support them with counseling. 360 00:34:20,997.0749209 --> 00:34:26,927.0749209 I didn't share about this, but I'm also doing a master's degree in biblical counseling at a theological seminary. 361 00:34:26,927.1749209 --> 00:34:31,267.0739209 So I was just practicing a lot, and it's really interesting, actually. 362 00:34:31,317.0749209 --> 00:34:34,227.0749209 I will tell you how I came into that master's degree. 363 00:34:34,787.0749209 --> 00:34:36,787.0749209 There was a professor who was reading a book. 364 00:34:36,857.0749209 --> 00:34:43,97.0749209 He was reading my Norse book, and then he says, Oh, I will just recommend you for this program. 365 00:34:43,547.0749209 --> 00:34:47,777.0749209 But he didn't tell me which college or seminary, which program. 366 00:34:47,777.0749209 --> 00:34:50,447.0749209 Nothing says, I will just write a recommendation for you. 367 00:34:50,987.0749209 --> 00:34:55,727.0739209 And then from this seminary, they wrote, says they wanted to talk with me and they offered me a scholarship. 368 00:34:55,727.0749209 --> 00:34:59,717.0739209 And even with the scholarship, I could not afford what I was supposed to pay. 369 00:35:00,217.0749209 --> 00:35:04,477.0749209 And then they told me that the financial partner had a son who committed suicide. 370 00:35:04,867.0749209 --> 00:35:14,187.0744209 He was autistic, so there was a certain key interest and that someone will get trained to be able to offer counseling, um, for autistic people within the church. 371 00:35:14,187.0744209 --> 00:35:16,937.0739209 So that's how I came into the program. 372 00:35:17,517.0739209 --> 00:35:22,247.0749209 So we support couples, marriages, people who just got their diagnosis. 373 00:35:22,317.0759209 --> 00:35:26,377.0749209 And we also support people who have suffered a certain kind of, a level of trauma. 374 00:35:27,67.0749209 --> 00:35:29,77.0749209 And it's been really wonderful, to be honest. 375 00:35:29,687.0749209 --> 00:35:33,857.0749209 Because part of our ministry is also just to offer and share tools with the church. 376 00:35:34,277.0749209 --> 00:35:43,777.0739209 So we have been working alongside some churches who would like to talk about autism, not only at the childhood level, but also in general for the church. 377 00:35:43,777.1739209 --> 00:35:51,627.0749209 As always, there is so much more to say. 378 00:35:52,67.0749209 --> 00:35:55,827.0749209 Autism is such a broad topic and it's talked about so little. 379 00:35:56,142.0749209 --> 00:35:57,862.0749209 Especially among Christians. 380 00:35:58,572.0749209 --> 00:36:05,302.0749209 And so to finish it off, I asked Maynard to share something that's on his heart and then how the global church should be praying. 381 00:36:05,302.1749209 --> 00:36:15,742.0739209 I would like to ask a question, but also take advantage of the opportunity just to offer an invitation. 382 00:36:15,752.0749209 --> 00:36:18,162.0749209 The invitation is that we just join. 383 00:36:18,732.0749209 --> 00:36:20,122.0749209 God in what he is doing. 384 00:36:20,402.0749209 --> 00:36:24,422.0749209 I really respect, I have an awful respect for God's church. 385 00:36:24,792.0749209 --> 00:36:31,592.0749209 I don't want to join those who are just usually rebuking, uh, or complaining. 386 00:36:31,802.0749209 --> 00:36:38,742.0749209 I have heard from many different pastors that are kind of afraid of talking about neurodiversity. 387 00:36:38,892.0749209 --> 00:36:40,412.0749209 Sometimes we don't have the tools. 388 00:36:40,412.1749209 --> 00:36:43,362.0749209 We don't have the right people that we can ask about it. 389 00:36:43,452.0749209 --> 00:36:49,882.0749209 But the reality is that God is already bringing Neurodiverse people to our churches every day. 390 00:36:49,972.0749209 --> 00:36:53,502.0749209 Let us not be afraid of looking at the gospel through other lenses. 391 00:36:54,72.0749209 --> 00:36:59,612.0749209 Autism goes beyond any generation, ages, ethnicity, and social positions. 392 00:36:59,712.0739209 --> 00:37:06,702.0749209 This is a global issue, but we have a great opportunity to be part of what God is doing to extend his kingdom. 393 00:37:07,42.0749209 --> 00:37:10,422.0749209 That's just really what is just very deep in my heart that I would like to share with you. 394 00:37:10,482.0749209 --> 00:37:16,972.0749209 We are just in the critical, uh, stage as human beings, but it's a great opportunity as well. 395 00:37:17,12.0749209 --> 00:37:21,382.0749209 We have an incredible message and in the body of Christ, there is place for everyone. 396 00:37:23,752.0749209 --> 00:37:25,362.0749209 I usually write my prayers. 397 00:37:25,902.0749209 --> 00:37:33,542.0749209 Um, one of the first prayers I remember I wrote during this initial stages of the diagnosis is the following one. 398 00:37:33,752.0749209 --> 00:37:35,462.0749209 Lord, help me to walk with. 399 00:37:35,742.0749209 --> 00:37:37,372.0749209 That one, the one who is different. 400 00:37:37,652.0749209 --> 00:37:41,892.0749209 Help me to appreciate your creativity in the way you have created the other. 401 00:37:42,12.0749209 --> 00:37:46,542.0749209 May I build today a bridge of love and not a wall of prejudice. 402 00:37:47,12.0749209 --> 00:37:49,682.0749209 I don't want to see the other through the lens of deficit. 403 00:37:49,682.1749209 --> 00:37:53,12.0749209 Let me see the other through the lens of Christ. 404 00:37:53,402.0749209 --> 00:38:02,812.0749209 I'm not going to tell you how the book ends, but I would like to give you a heads up that at the end of the book, I shared about the things that I saw in common between Jesus and the Samaritan woman. 405 00:38:03,57.0749209 --> 00:38:12,927.0749209 At the beginning, when I started to write the book, I saw myself, uh, as a person besides Jesus and my son, I saw my son besides the Samaritan woman. 406 00:38:12,937.0739209 --> 00:38:25,257.0749209 My first thought was, how can I just reach out to that, to my son and the same way Jesus was trying to reach out to that woman and just bring them over to my side, to where I was with Jesus. 407 00:38:25,797.0749209 --> 00:38:28,247.0749209 But I found something way more beautiful than that. 408 00:38:28,887.0749209 --> 00:38:35,237.0739209 Jesus doesn't engage the Samaritan woman just to bring her over to his side, so to speak. 409 00:38:35,337.0749209 --> 00:38:37,117.0749209 They have things in common. 410 00:38:37,377.0749209 --> 00:38:49,842.0749209 And with their differences, they create something completely Something bigger than the kingdom or the, of the Samaritans or the Jews, they are creating a third culture, the culture of the kingdom. 411 00:38:50,152.0739209 --> 00:38:54,22.0749209 I never thought that I have so many things in common with my son. 412 00:38:54,312.0739209 --> 00:38:58,62.0749209 And I started to see him as I just pray in this prayer. 413 00:38:58,272.0739209 --> 00:39:01,711.9749209 So as a creative masterpiece of God. 414 00:39:01,912.0749209 --> 00:39:11,942.0749209 Not through the lenses of what he's missing or what he doesn't have, but throughout the how valuable, I started to think about how valuable and special God made him. 415 00:39:12,232.0749209 --> 00:39:16,372.0749209 And I really hope that this prayer will just be a blessing for the global church. 416 00:39:16,482.0749209 --> 00:39:23,352.0739209 May we just be able to walk with those who are different so we together can create something completely new. 417 00:39:29,307.0749209 --> 00:39:40,427.0749209 You have listened to the God on the Move podcast, which is part of the Lausanne Movement's wider God on the Move initiative, where we want to share inspiring God stories from the global church, with the global church. 418 00:39:41,27.0739209 --> 00:39:49,27.0749209 Through listening to what God is doing all around the world, We hope to encourage and challenge the global church to faithful obedience to the Great Commission. 419 00:39:50,17.0749209 --> 00:39:59,287.0739209 From now on, we will be releasing the God on the Move podcast episodes only bi weekly, with episodes from the Lausanne Movement podcast being published in the weeks between. 420 00:40:00,87.0739209 --> 00:40:05,257.0749209 Our bonus episode next week is the Lausanne Movement podcast's interview with Dr. 421 00:40:05,307.0749209 --> 00:40:06,147.0749209 Susan Greener. 422 00:40:06,147.1749209 --> 00:40:08,327.0749209 We really hope you enjoy.