Decolonizing Theology and Embracing Your True Christian Identity with Rei Lemuel Crizaldo

In this episode of the Lausanne Movement Podcast, we interview Rei Lemuel Crizaldo, the leader of the Theological Commission of the World Evangelical Alliance. We explore the impact of colonial history on Christian identity and the importance of reviewing cultural engagement in theology. Rei shares his personal journey, insights on contextualising faith, and practical steps for overcoming what he describes as ‘colonial captivity’.

Discover how to:

• Understand  your cultural identity in light of your Christian faith.

• Understand and address colonial influences on theology.

• Communicate the gospel effectively within your cultural context.

• Foster a global perspective on Christianity that respects and celebrates diversity.

After listening, subscribe to our podcast for more inspiring conversations. Leave a review to share your thoughts, and visit our website for additional resources and updates.

 

Links & Resources Mentioned:

• Kirby Laing Centre for Public Theology

• Rei Lemuel Crizaldo's Blog: https://xgenesisrei.tumblr.com/

• Recommended Reading:
  • “A Multitude of All Peoples: Engaging Ancient Christianity’s Global Identity” by Vince Bantu
  • “Global Kingdom, Global People: Living Faithfully in a Multicultural World” by Melba Padilla Maggay
  • “Mission Between the Times” by Rene Padilla

 

Guest Bio:

Rei Lemuel Crizaldo coordinates the Theological Commission of the World Evangelical Alliance (WEA) and the theological education network of Tearfund UK in East and Southeast Asia. His recent academic publications include chapters written from a decolonial theology perspective in the following volumes: Missio Dei in a Digital Age (SCM Press, 2020), Theologies and Practices of Inclusion (SCM Press, 2021), God’s Heart for Children: Practical Theology from Global Perspectives (Langham, 2022), and Faith and Politics: Evangelical Political Theology (forthcoming Langham, 2023). His book Boring Ba Ang Bible Mo? (Is Your Bible Boring?) won the Filipino Reader’s Choice award.

We’d love your feedback to help us to improve this podcast. Thank you!

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
.3066340845So, how can we communicate to people? Not just where they are, but who they are. 2 00:00:07,11.3066340844 --> 00:00:15,772.215724993 And sometimes, the who they are that they have lost, that if they would be able to recover something would be more clearer. 3 00:00:16,812.214724993 --> 00:00:19,792.214724993 How they understand things, how they process things. 4 00:00:21,760.203251167 --> 00:00:28,570.203251167 Welcome to the Lausanne Movement Podcast, where we have a passion to accelerate global mission together. 5 00:00:29,20.203251167 --> 00:00:30,370.203251167 I'm your host, Jason Watson. 6 00:00:30,400.203251167 --> 00:00:33,940.203251167 And today on the podcast, we sit down with Rei Kriselda. 7 00:00:34,330.203251167 --> 00:00:43,60.203251167 Who coordinates the theological commission of the world evangelical Alliance and the theological education network of the TearFund and east and Southeast Asia. 8 00:00:43,770.203251167 --> 00:00:51,40.203251167 Rei and I explore the impact of colonial history on a Christian identity and the importance of reviewing cultural engagement and theology. 9 00:00:51,40.203251167 --> 00:00:52,780.203251167 Ray shares his personal journey. 10 00:00:52,990.203251167 --> 00:00:58,900.203251167 Insights on contextualizing faith and practical steps for overcoming what he defines as colonial captivity. 11 00:00:59,650.203251167 --> 00:01:03,550.203251167 If you're interested in exploring the intersection of theology, faith, and culture. 12 00:01:03,970.203251167 --> 00:01:06,160.203251167 Then this episode is for you. 13 00:01:06,520.203251167 --> 00:01:12,120.203251167 So grab your headphones and let's dive in to today's conversation with Rei Crizaldo. 14 00:01:16,103.881920604 --> 00:01:17,953.881920604 Well, Ray, welcome to the podcast. 15 00:01:18,33.881920604 --> 00:01:20,23.881920604 It's really great to have you with us today. 16 00:01:20,788.700102422 --> 00:01:22,108.700102422 Kamusta, Jason. 17 00:01:22,118.700102422 --> 00:01:29,904.791011513 That's a Filipino word for how are you and hello everyone as well and I'm it's a joy to be here thank you for that. 18 00:01:29,944.791011513 --> 00:01:33,724.791011513 I just shared with Ray that similar greeting in South Africa is howzit. 19 00:01:34,224.791011513 --> 00:01:39,374.791011513 And so Ray's going to remember that one when he comes to South Africa, a very warm welcome to you, Ray. 20 00:01:39,374.791011513 --> 00:01:41,774.79101151 I'm excited about the prospect of today's interview. 21 00:01:42,304.79201151 --> 00:01:48,498.29212526 We plan to cover loads of ground from here on out living faithfully as believers in a localized context. 22 00:01:48,498.29212526 --> 00:02:01,278.29312526 We're going to speak about colonial captivity, the impact of demographic shifts on the expression of global Christianity, and hopefully, Land with some practical applications for, our listeners and for some of the organizations that we work for. 23 00:02:01,748.29312526 --> 00:02:07,723.35004983 So, yeah, I'm keen to see where the conversation goes and takes us today to kick us off, Ray, you wear many hats. 24 00:02:08,263.35004983 --> 00:02:12,483.35004983 Blending theology and education and a passion for cultural engagement. 25 00:02:12,853.35004983 --> 00:02:34,126.08564195 Could you share a bit with our podcast audience about the work that you do? And more specifically, could you give us a bit of your backstory? What inspired you and set you on this path in terms of the work that you do and the passions that you have? Well, so I hope I we don't scare people away with with the many things that I'm really into but it's true. 26 00:02:34,126.08564195 --> 00:02:46,837.75057136 I mean, different things to different people but end of the day, I would always like to remind myself and also tell people that at the very heart of who I am as an artist. 27 00:02:47,399.99125219 --> 00:02:54,469.63975308 I used to do visual arts, but then down the line, I chose the reader world, or I went into literature. 28 00:02:54,559.63975308 --> 00:02:59,77.02940874 So in the Philippines chose to be a writer. 29 00:02:59,587.02940874 --> 00:03:01,257.02940874 So I write, books. 30 00:03:01,673.36551086 --> 00:03:05,433.36551086 The term that they call it is a creative non fiction. 31 00:03:05,693.36551086 --> 00:03:12,653.36551086 Yeah, so, of course I do a lot of things, but I think that is where my core would be. 32 00:03:12,809.91028409 --> 00:03:17,559.91028409 that God gave me a craft that when I do it, it gives me energy. 33 00:03:17,914.91028409 --> 00:03:20,445.02392201 Rather than takes away things from me. 34 00:03:20,935.02392201 --> 00:03:25,788.64130692 Yeah, but also that, gift also led me to very exciting things. 35 00:03:26,368.64230692 --> 00:03:30,308.64230692 And one of those, my current role is with the World Evangelical Alliance. 36 00:03:30,623.64230692 --> 00:03:46,33.64130692 So I now lead the Theological Commission of the Alliance and also I now edit the Theological Digest called Theological News, which is exciting for me because both are in a way I look at those two roles as a creative work. 37 00:03:46,583.64230692 --> 00:03:55,631.83659682 I mean, because we are in we would talk about this in a while, but I think we are in a new era and a lot of imagination Has to come in. 38 00:03:55,741.83659682 --> 00:03:56,71.83659682 Yeah. 39 00:03:56,651.83659682 --> 00:03:58,221.83659682 I am also with IRFAND. 40 00:03:58,661.83659682 --> 00:04:03,281.83659682 I'm coordinating their theological education network in East and Southeast Asia. 41 00:04:03,551.83659682 --> 00:04:10,891.83759682 Basically that means connecting professors, teachers who are passionate about missions work. 42 00:04:11,101.83659682 --> 00:04:13,71.83759682 About whole life missions. 43 00:04:13,401.83759682 --> 00:04:18,287.5820077 What it means to engage people and their communities and everything that is around them. 44 00:04:18,822.5820077 --> 00:04:23,782.5820077 And I think I have to mention this because I think I'm also a full time dad. 45 00:04:23,862.5820077 --> 00:04:35,292.5820077 I mean, I have two daughters, a six year old and a growing one year old, and I had an amazing wife who puts order into the scatterbrained artists that I have. 46 00:04:35,812.5810077 --> 00:04:44,512.5820077 Which I really so grateful to, to the Lord for giving me this wonderful family that brings a bit of like, How do you say that? Still point. 47 00:04:44,892.5820077 --> 00:04:52,672.5800077 When I have many ideas flying and then I go to that center and that became my still point. 48 00:04:52,752.5810077 --> 00:04:54,892.5800077 Oh, one last thing if you will allow me. 49 00:04:55,157.36524599 --> 00:04:56,467.36424599 I really love coffee. 50 00:04:57,912.36524599 --> 00:05:00,602.36524599 And coffee from different parts of the world. 51 00:05:01,92.36524599 --> 00:05:14,822.36524599 And when people sometimes ask me, Ray, what is it that you really do? And I will say, you know, I drink coffee with people, and then in the midst of our conversation, I think of who they could be drinking coffee with in the future. 52 00:05:15,553.84912734 --> 00:05:16,433.84912734 Oh, that's wonderful, Ray. 53 00:05:16,443.84912734 --> 00:05:17,553.84912734 Thank you for sharing that. 54 00:05:17,627.16152611 --> 00:05:20,737.16102611 I love that you added in the fact that you are a father as well. 55 00:05:20,737.16102611 --> 00:05:27,594.81369613 I think that that is when you speak about whole life missions or whole life discipleship, our family really forms like a large part of that. 56 00:05:28,94.81369613 --> 00:05:35,754.81369613 So you have a passion for helping people understand the importance of living out their faith within their local and cultural context. 57 00:05:36,24.81369613 --> 00:05:38,864.81369613 Sounds like a lot of what you're doing with TFN is connected to that. 58 00:05:39,314.81369613 --> 00:05:53,42.19376166 How? How did your own personal experiences shape that conviction and that passion within you? a nice question, really, because it always reminds me how the Lord, sort of a way, steered me into the direction where I am now. 59 00:05:53,442.19276166 --> 00:05:57,622.19376166 So, aside from the arts, I fell in love with theology. 60 00:05:58,532.19376166 --> 00:06:06,592.19376166 And so, I studied theology and read a lot about Amazing stuff, wonderful deep thinkers. 61 00:06:06,612.19376166 --> 00:06:23,95.47375859 And then I realized, I mean, these things, only a tiny, tiny fraction of the population, I mean, in my country and maybe in other countries as well, would even dare go and venture and try to understand these things. 62 00:06:23,565.47475859 --> 00:06:40,528.37285458 And so I realized theology is wonderful, How could normal people, like, engage with these deep thoughts? And then, one time, I met Rene Padilla, Carlos Rene Padilla, a theologian from South America. 63 00:06:41,158.37285458 --> 00:06:45,104.40708007 and, he told me that he also was into theology. 64 00:06:45,714.40708007 --> 00:06:56,661.39959735 And then, he told me that, down the line, theology, instead of becoming, being a servant that helps people grow, Sometimes it becomes a barrier. 65 00:06:57,841.39959735 --> 00:07:01,541.39959735 And then at that moment, I think I made a commitment. 66 00:07:01,931.39959735 --> 00:07:17,877.1353601 I said, okay, I would like to get a theology to where people are and bring these amazing, deep conversations from, from these amazing books into where people are. 67 00:07:17,877.1353601 --> 00:07:29,837.1363601 And at the same time appreciate the conversations happening among people who, they may not be using high lofty words, but for sure they're very much serious about what their faith means. 68 00:07:30,391.24900203 --> 00:07:34,391.48973534 And so that, that set me from theology, I crossed disciplines. 69 00:07:34,551.48973534 --> 00:07:39,281.48973534 I realized I needed to study something that will allow me to do just that. 70 00:07:39,281.48973534 --> 00:07:40,951.48973534 So I shifted to communications. 71 00:07:42,71.48973534 --> 00:07:51,318.06087267 and so I started communications because I wanted to bridge the gap, sort of, And when I started communications, stumbled upon Fun culture. 72 00:07:52,218.06087267 --> 00:08:01,240.10910303 And I realized that a big part of how we understand, how we communicate, how we try to process things is culture. 73 00:08:01,714.05510572 --> 00:08:07,954.05510572 and the more deeper I get into culture, I realized that culture is not just an aid. 74 00:08:09,94.05410572 --> 00:08:11,44.05510572 Culture is basically an identity. 75 00:08:11,442.44752881 --> 00:08:16,528.35210752 It's something that, people wear on their sleeves, sometimes unaware. 76 00:08:16,917.17763157 --> 00:08:21,462.17763157 for sometimes, Culture can be something that is repressed as well, I realized. 77 00:08:22,42.17763157 --> 00:08:29,612.17763157 And for some people not just repressed, something that was taken from them in a way. 78 00:08:30,352.17663157 --> 00:08:35,382.17563157 and that realization led me to more and more explore. 79 00:08:35,452.17563157 --> 00:08:42,771.66408383 So, how can we communicate to people? Not just where they are, but who they are. 80 00:08:43,381.66408383 --> 00:08:52,951.66408383 And sometimes, the who they are that they have lost, that if they would be able to recover something would be more clearer. 81 00:08:53,991.66308383 --> 00:08:56,971.66308383 How they understand things, how they process things. 82 00:08:57,481.66408383 --> 00:09:06,461.66408383 And, of course, I mean, if we're thinking of missions, I mean, a lot of how the Gospel could get across would be right at the heart of that. 83 00:09:07,876.66408383 --> 00:09:08,116.66408383 Yeah. 84 00:09:08,746.66408383 --> 00:09:10,527.58204063 So I think that's what set me off. 85 00:09:11,7.58204063 --> 00:09:12,207.58204063 I mean, into this journey. 86 00:09:12,953.32298516 --> 00:09:32,887.90340667 You know, as you were speaking, I could just, I could tell that you have a heart of an artist as you were thinking about theology, as you spoke about communication, how that led you into thinking about culture and identity, you could really pick up that the creative trend going through all of those steps that you took and, even just the, the nuance that you brought to it. 87 00:09:34,67.90340667 --> 00:09:39,557.90340667 Repressed identity and how we communicate that in missions, I think is so vitally important. 88 00:09:39,997.90340667 --> 00:09:49,987.90340667 And I think that connects with the next question that we want to dive into, which has got to do with this whole idea of colonial captivity, which may sound like a bit of a trigger word for, those who are listening. 89 00:09:50,367.90340667 --> 00:09:52,227.80340667 But this is a passion of yours. 90 00:09:52,227.90340667 --> 00:09:58,427.90240667 And part of that passion is, is for you to help bring about a healing to deep colonial wounds. 91 00:09:58,437.90340667 --> 00:09:58,737.90340667 So. 92 00:09:59,422.90340667 --> 00:10:17,999.56907334 Before people jump off the podcast in protest, could you just elaborate for us what you mean when you're speaking about colonial captivity, you've written about this, spoken about this, what it looks like in today's context, we're speaking about a globalized context here, and perhaps share a story, an example of where you've, witnessed this and you've seen it addressed in an effective way. 93 00:10:18,335.90240667 --> 00:10:19,615.90140667 That's really a big word. 94 00:10:20,27.73424 --> 00:10:21,247.73424001 to me, it's not just a big word. 95 00:10:21,277.73424 --> 00:10:23,262.70013615 I mean, it's a big, it's a big hole. 96 00:10:24,61.90088353 --> 00:10:39,941.89988353 that is something that is very personal to me because when I was in this adventure that God set me on to help people communicate, understand a bit more deeper about who God is, who they are, what the Bible says. 97 00:10:40,541.89988353 --> 00:10:47,51.89888353 And then it was along the way that I realized that I myself needed help. 98 00:10:47,866.89988353 --> 00:10:51,996.89988353 A habit of processing about what I thought I understand. 99 00:10:52,578.28838878 --> 00:10:58,734.95505545 I have no words to describe it really until there was one moment that it confronted me in the face. 100 00:10:58,944.95505545 --> 00:11:01,874.95505545 If you allow me to share just, just a short story. 101 00:11:02,304.95405545 --> 00:11:03,404.95505545 I had a mentor. 102 00:11:03,528.28838878 --> 00:11:06,718.28838878 so she gave me a book in pure vernacular. 103 00:11:06,738.28838878 --> 00:11:12,451.62172212 It was like, you know, the deep vernacular kind of literature, right? it is my local language. 104 00:11:12,471.62172212 --> 00:11:15,551.62172212 And then she asked me to read it in one week. 105 00:11:15,601.62172212 --> 00:11:16,21.62172212 Okay. 106 00:11:16,561.62172212 --> 00:11:23,1.62072212 But then I came back to her in a month and then she asked, Whoa, what took you so long? That is your language. 107 00:11:23,11.62072212 --> 00:11:25,611.62072212 You must be able to have read that a bit faster. 108 00:11:26,171.62072212 --> 00:11:31,671.62172212 And then I told her, of course, I want to be able to answer you in case you give a quiz. 109 00:11:31,671.62172212 --> 00:11:34,931.62172212 So I gotta get everything right and correct. 110 00:11:35,580.68831748 --> 00:11:44,487.35498415 and then she told me, my son, do you want me to explain a bit what's happening to you when you were reading that book? I said, yeah. 111 00:11:45,307.35498415 --> 00:11:50,97.35498415 And she told me, when you were reading that book, you were not really reading the words. 112 00:11:51,787.35498415 --> 00:11:56,640.0859786 You can read the words, but you code switch and translate it back to English. 113 00:11:56,640.1859786 --> 00:12:01,460.1359169 And then you process it, then you code switch, and then you again read the book. 114 00:12:02,945.1359169 --> 00:12:10,664.30336685 As if a curtain was taken away from my eyes and said, Yeah, I think that's what's happening to me. 115 00:12:10,664.30336685 --> 00:12:12,24.30336685 And then I asked why it's so. 116 00:12:12,94.30336685 --> 00:12:17,184.30236685 You know, my mentor was an anthropologist, so she knows a bit about this stuff. 117 00:12:17,794.30236685 --> 00:12:24,948.65737544 And then told me, Because my son, I think all your concepts in your concepts in your mind. 118 00:12:25,303.65737544 --> 00:12:26,903.65737544 are all labeled in English. 119 00:12:27,643.65737544 --> 00:12:37,223.65737544 Because from when you were small, from kindergarten up to your graduate school university, even seminary, everything you know was labeled in English. 120 00:12:37,233.65737544 --> 00:12:42,893.65737544 So it means, you can read your local language, you can even speak it, but you don't think on it. 121 00:12:42,893.75737544 --> 00:12:46,133.65737544 I said, oh, wow. 122 00:12:46,973.65737544 --> 00:12:49,93.65737544 I said, yeah, I think that's what's happening to me. 123 00:12:49,823.65737544 --> 00:12:55,69.33915274 I was processing that went home, and then I realized this big hole in me. 124 00:12:55,139.44015274 --> 00:13:02,421.03842249 I realized that, oh my goodness, I mean, I cannot think in my own language. 125 00:13:02,974.89454137 --> 00:13:10,247.40859253 So, everything I know about, faith, about my spirituality, all of those things were labeled for me. 126 00:13:11,257.40859253 --> 00:13:42,845.48376248 By another people from another culture from another language and that's not bad But I thought what would it feel how would it look like if I can gain like a primary primary? understanding that experience and then it was only later on that I gained The term or how do you say it? I was able to name what was that and what took me so long and that was a colonial mentality. 127 00:13:42,955.48476248 --> 00:13:52,745.48476248 I mean, I was not aware that My mind has been held captive by, the rich and long colonial history that we thought was already over. 128 00:13:53,55.48476248 --> 00:13:57,885.48476248 But then, then it dawned on me, oh my goodness, I mean, it's very much alive and kicking. 129 00:13:58,315.48376248 --> 00:14:08,340.14986031 And so, that sent me off into a journey towards Recovering who I am as a Filipino, who I am as a person with my own language and way of thinking. 130 00:14:08,380.14986031 --> 00:14:14,420.14986031 And I realized that I mentioned that I was digging deeper into culture a while ago. 131 00:14:14,460.14986031 --> 00:14:18,70.14886031 I realized that it was way, way deeper than that. 132 00:14:18,513.35554389 --> 00:14:25,640.14986031 and the more I dig deep, I think the more I know and can explain who I am now. 133 00:14:26,130.14986031 --> 00:14:30,130.14986031 And also the more I get to appreciate what I have become. 134 00:14:30,590.14986031 --> 00:14:41,668.05421733 In the process and coming to terms with that colonial captivity and accepting the need for undoing it. 135 00:14:42,348.05521733 --> 00:14:49,114.721884 I think that was what it means to like experience a healing a wound. 136 00:14:49,861.38855066 --> 00:15:02,594.01893615 a recognition that there's a deep colonial wound inside you that you need to seek the spirit of to to come and and really allow to process it and find healing. 137 00:15:02,594.01893615 --> 00:15:04,694.01893615 Of course it'll have marks right. 138 00:15:04,975.01893615 --> 00:15:19,496.00389704 But able from, to move from a position of your victimized to a position of seeing how God has been at work all throughout your life and moving positively towards the whole future. 139 00:15:19,496.00389704 --> 00:15:21,856.04068876 I think that is what it means to bring healing. 140 00:15:22,50.18747665 --> 00:15:27,136.85414332 for my own healing, what the Lord allowed me to do was to write books in my language. 141 00:15:27,218.46777325 --> 00:15:33,376.29842888 What God gave into my life was, okay, you want to write, then write something in your own language. 142 00:15:33,606.29842888 --> 00:15:43,444.98794125 And I said, yeah, I think it is not just so that I could connect and help with my generation, but also it became like a therapy for me. 143 00:15:44,324.98794125 --> 00:15:50,374.98794125 Writing in my own language and with my generation, it means also writing in mixed languages. 144 00:15:50,904.98794125 --> 00:16:01,505.65341925 So in the Philippines we have, I think in similar, in other countries they would also have this kind of phenomenon when a local language mixed with English, right? So we call it or conversational Tagalog. 145 00:16:02,701.4173647 --> 00:16:11,306.91637747 writing a series of books on that allowed me to gain, get a glimpse of what it means to think. 146 00:16:13,197.01637747 --> 00:16:18,697.01637747 From my own local culture, from my own local language, and from my own point of reference. 147 00:16:18,753.09489081 --> 00:16:19,833.09489081 it's like a mental shift. 148 00:16:19,833.19489081 --> 00:16:25,783.61898935 I, could not say that I have like, liberated myself completely or 100%. 149 00:16:25,833.61998935 --> 00:16:31,583.61998935 I said there would be scars and marks, but the more I realize now it's a journey. 150 00:16:32,3.61998935 --> 00:16:33,703.61998935 Now we have a fancy term for that. 151 00:16:33,713.61998935 --> 00:16:47,83.6189894 A lot of people are talking about decolonize, decoloniality, decolonizing, but even before those words came up and become popular in Facebook I mean, I was already, the Lord has been leading me towards that kind of a job. 152 00:16:47,783.6532118 --> 00:16:55,461.8636798 Sorry for the a bit of long story, but that what really has transformed this, a journey of mine into this kind of a ministry. 153 00:16:56,824.8152942 --> 00:17:02,976.8379102 I really appreciate the way that you have brought this conversation about just sharing from your own deep experience. 154 00:17:03,9.8640128 --> 00:17:08,301.5387306 There are many people who are listening to this that I know it would be, it would resonate with them, you know. 155 00:17:08,631.5387306 --> 00:17:14,848.6151314 The same experience of, reading and thinking in English and trying to translate that into your own language. 156 00:17:15,208.6151314 --> 00:17:17,316.7079333 so thank you for, setting the stage for us. 157 00:17:17,346.7089333 --> 00:17:36,191.2514323 You know, I've just experienced in my own life when, God is doing a deep work in me and I'm trying to communicate that from that depth and that well, and that space it can be very difficult to, communicate and why, what I'm sharing and what's And so, vitally important, not only for me, but for the person who's listening. 158 00:17:36,611.2514323 --> 00:17:57,653.1365042 So I'd be curious to hear, you know, as God has been doing this work within you, how have you been able to communicate that others within your own context? You know, as you're speaking about colonial captivity, as you're speaking about the need for healing, you know, I could imagine some people looking at you and saying, Ray, what are you going on about? You know, just go go continue with your theology and write your books. 159 00:17:57,973.1365042 --> 00:17:59,203.1355042 And others might be resonating. 160 00:17:59,253.1365042 --> 00:18:13,314.8592662 How did you communicate that? And what reaction did you get? and perhaps what examples of, like, did people experience the same revelation as you and what has been the process for them in terms of their own healing? maybe because I'm, I'm also a pastor. 161 00:18:13,454.8592662 --> 00:18:23,379.2126292 So one of the, privilege of being a pastor is you get to have that opportunity to deliver like a homily. 162 00:18:23,529.2116292 --> 00:18:27,869.2116292 I mean, every once in a while, right? Day in, Sunday in, Sunday out. 163 00:18:28,579.2126292 --> 00:18:32,154.1126292 I think people have noticed a remarkable think people have noticed a remarkable shift. 164 00:18:32,814.2126292 --> 00:18:36,430.8792958 In the way I try to share a message. 165 00:18:37,410.8792958 --> 00:18:41,840.8792958 Whereas in the past, I would be used to quoting a lot of people. 166 00:18:41,860.8792958 --> 00:19:08,392.0915075 I mean, the more quotations you have, or the more Hebrew and Greek that you put in, the more solid your preaching sounds like, right? But over the years, I think have shifted to really looking into How the scriptures, for example, come into full color when, it engages our culture in the Philippines. 167 00:19:08,422.0915075 --> 00:19:12,452.0915075 And then I tried to also express this, express it in the local language. 168 00:19:12,452.0915075 --> 00:19:22,259.8756531 So instead of parsing Greek, I'm parsing our vernacular, and in that a few times, I mean, I've seen how, the local language. 169 00:19:22,699.8756531 --> 00:19:32,556.5423198 It's able to bring about the original meaning of the Hebrew and the Greek in ways that sometimes it's hard to do in English. 170 00:19:32,989.8756531 --> 00:19:35,129.8756531 It's not that English is not a good language. 171 00:19:35,129.8756531 --> 00:19:38,963.2079864 It's just that there are things that English brings about really well. 172 00:19:38,963.2079864 --> 00:19:42,93.2079864 But for some things, you need other languages. 173 00:19:42,848.6635319 --> 00:19:48,450.1225773 to put some more color, texture to what the scriptures are saying. 174 00:19:48,880.1225773 --> 00:20:00,64.3083625 So immediately the people around me, I mean, we have young pastors in the church and they were saying that they could not preach in English or straight English. 175 00:20:00,114.3083625 --> 00:20:01,834.3083625 I said, that's perfectly okay. 176 00:20:02,354.3083625 --> 00:20:03,854.3083625 And that, and that you don't have to. 177 00:20:04,404.3083625 --> 00:20:13,156.1248441 And maybe The depth would come into how you are able to articulate God's word more meaningfully using the language that, we have. 178 00:20:13,216.1248441 --> 00:20:20,886.1248441 And this is not an issue of translation because translation is, I would say, I would not say it's easy. 179 00:20:20,896.1248441 --> 00:20:21,906.1243441 It's more conventional. 180 00:20:21,906.1243441 --> 00:20:28,586.0248441 I mean, people would often, when they think of culture, they, think of, oh, you just need to translate things. 181 00:20:29,756.1248441 --> 00:20:34,276.4423044 But I'm trying to communicate here is not translation. 182 00:20:34,826.4423044 --> 00:20:37,206.4423044 This is trying to think from the context. 183 00:20:37,206.4423044 --> 00:20:39,6.4423044 You're not translating anything. 184 00:20:39,566.4423044 --> 00:20:45,803.1089711 But you're trying to unearth, you're trying to draw from a particular context. 185 00:20:46,233.1089711 --> 00:20:49,473.1089711 And try to understand from that vantage point. 186 00:20:49,698.5806264 --> 00:20:54,516.4423044 How the gospel or God's word is speaking. 187 00:20:55,386.4423044 --> 00:20:59,615.4823293 So I can say it may include translation, but it's beyond translation. 188 00:21:00,85.4813293 --> 00:21:05,811.4254421 And, I've spoken to, a lot of people who said, oh yeah, that makes sense. 189 00:21:05,901.4244421 --> 00:21:10,516.7579481 I mean, if you think of it this way, yeah, I think that's what Jesus meant. 190 00:21:11,120.054611 --> 00:21:13,130.054611 and those, in those aha moments. 191 00:21:13,603.425785 --> 00:21:26,13.425785 people that I've had coffee with I think that for me translates my own personal experience into, into something like, Oh, so this is not something that's personal. 192 00:21:26,153.425785 --> 00:21:37,17.1475271 This is ministry because it allows people to, to find confidence and liberation to be who they are as a person. 193 00:21:37,792.7988254 --> 00:21:46,336.3124624 You know, as you were speaking, I was just thinking actually a lot about Jesus and perhaps his own upbringing within Judea. 194 00:21:46,350.8611522 --> 00:22:02,680.8611522 Think of how, you know, Judah was taken over by the Greeks and then the Romans and he grew up in a space where He was Hebrew speaking, but spoke Arabic and Greek and, the linguistic complexity and the, the cultural complexity that he must have grown up in. 195 00:22:03,100.8611522 --> 00:22:20,830.7548955 From your perspective, how does scripture inform our understanding of culture and faith and mission, particularly within the majority world in these spaces where there might be deep colonial wounds that need to be healed? from your perspective, what scripture, like, informs that and you believe is an anchor for us as we Dive into this conversation. 196 00:22:21,300.2483447 --> 00:22:24,440.2483447 I always get excited when this question is, is asked. 197 00:22:24,450.2483447 --> 00:22:34,310.6344953 Because for me, I've been reading, I've studied scriptures, I've studied theology for, quite some years, but I just gloss over it. 198 00:22:35,480.6344953 --> 00:22:43,342.4336417 But then, when I had that experience, so undoing of colonial captivity. 199 00:22:44,372.4336417 --> 00:22:47,582.4326417 Then, I started to read the Book of Acts again. 200 00:22:49,672.4326417 --> 00:22:52,972.4326417 Something just screamed out of the page. 201 00:22:53,22.4336417 --> 00:23:07,312.2130009 Like, for example, the Pentecost moment, And when the Spirit of God came, into the, into the apostles, and then they speak in languages, and the people heard them in their own language. 202 00:23:08,942.2130009 --> 00:23:22,302.2130009 That was the Pentecost moment and, and that is significant because it means that these people do not need to understand Hebrew to be able to hear what God has to tell them. 203 00:23:23,411.7723233 --> 00:23:37,551.7733233 and I think that in the book of Acts, that jumpstart a series of similar episodes that actually is telling people that, you know, the gospel is now crossing boundaries. 204 00:23:38,371.7733233 --> 00:23:54,374.3596993 The gospel is now crossing cultures and, when God allowed the early church to be scattered and they, and they literally scattered from Judea, Samaria, and then from the church in Jerusalem. 205 00:23:54,414.3596993 --> 00:24:00,534.3596993 And then you now start to have pockets of churches, Christian communities who are not Jewish speaking. 206 00:24:01,354.3596993 --> 00:24:12,644.3586993 who don't know Moses, who don't know the Pentateuch, right? And they inhabit a different world from the Roman Empire. 207 00:24:12,649.039243 --> 00:24:14,589.038243 they are Greek speaking. 208 00:24:14,679.038243 --> 00:24:18,99.039243 Their mythologies are different, not, not the burning bush. 209 00:24:18,129.039243 --> 00:24:20,29.038243 They would have Hercules and Zeus. 210 00:24:20,708.5796636 --> 00:24:34,819.948267 and so when the early church started to ask, okay, okay, what do we do with, we have new people, new means, Non Jewish people who don't know everything about being the chosen people of God. 211 00:24:35,119.948267 --> 00:24:41,489.948267 What do we do with them? And in the Jerusalem Council, I think that was a very remarkable story. 212 00:24:41,899.948267 --> 00:24:45,989.947267 When they say, OK, maybe a handful of things that you need to keep in mind. 213 00:24:46,559.948267 --> 00:24:50,879.948267 But aside from that, Practically, you don't need to be a Jew. 214 00:24:50,939.948267 --> 00:24:58,539.949267 I mean, you don't need to follow the 1, 000 plus commandments that Moses wanted the Jewish people to follow. 215 00:24:59,759.949267 --> 00:25:03,459.949267 You're actually there to figure out what it means to follow Jesus. 216 00:25:03,949.948267 --> 00:25:08,479.948267 And when I realized that, and then I look at Paul's letters. 217 00:25:09,4.949267 --> 00:25:25,825.4107876 I realized the huge burden was that was put on his shoulder because a piece after a EPIs, literally Paul was asking questions about food, about what to drink, about what to, wear, who to marry, should I stay? Single question about society and politics. 218 00:25:25,830.4107876 --> 00:25:33,733.1716305 And so, because it was up to the shoulders of, Apostle Pole to help these new communities in a different context. 219 00:25:34,103.1716305 --> 00:25:47,873.1716305 Different culture, different social location to start helping them to figure out, okay, what it means to be a follower of Jesus in this particular space and time and community. 220 00:25:48,407.5072306 --> 00:25:52,187.5072306 and I think that for us is an ongoing story. 221 00:25:52,817.5062306 --> 00:25:57,117.5072306 The book of Acts did not end with the Greek speaking believers. 222 00:25:57,407.5072306 --> 00:26:01,527.5072306 Eventually it reached the Filipino speaking believers. 223 00:26:02,418.2613724 --> 00:26:04,818.2613724 different nations and countries in the world today. 224 00:26:05,468.2613724 --> 00:26:08,88.2613724 And I think the same question remains. 225 00:26:08,128.2613724 --> 00:26:22,728.1613724 What does it mean to follow Jesus in this very particular context? and sometimes we, we sort of stop with one particular working out of what it means to follow Jesus in one particular context. 226 00:26:22,728.2613724 --> 00:26:25,468.2613724 And we use that as a template for everyone. 227 00:26:26,168.2613724 --> 00:26:36,184.9280391 And that may include the experience of the early church, which are basically, Working within a very specific culture from within the Roman Empire. 228 00:26:36,644.9280391 --> 00:26:39,134.9280391 Sometimes we can even use it as a template. 229 00:26:39,684.9280391 --> 00:26:47,1.2801504 What if, what was, what Apostle Paul was saying was that, was that, Hey guys, here's the template of how to live Christian life. 230 00:26:47,66.2801504 --> 00:26:51,821.2801504 What if, what what he was giving us, okay guys, here's the open door. 231 00:26:52,301.2801504 --> 00:26:58,1.2801504 The door is practically open Now you have to figure it out and be faithful as you can. 232 00:26:59,71.2801504 --> 00:27:01,471.2801504 in wherever context that you find yourself in. 233 00:27:02,64.7634649 --> 00:27:05,258.3280849 I think that's so applicable to, what's happening in the world today. 234 00:27:05,278.3280849 --> 00:27:09,868.3280849 There's this idea of a template being used to say, this is what's right. 235 00:27:09,908.3270849 --> 00:27:11,218.3280849 This is what's acceptable. 236 00:27:11,558.3280849 --> 00:27:13,248.3280849 You got to fit into this mold. 237 00:27:13,648.3280849 --> 00:27:25,392.326763 And we are now living in a time that, that is quite unique from the past hundred years and the fact that, and most of the listeners on this podcast will know this, that there's been a global shift in the demographics of Christianity. 238 00:27:25,722.327763 --> 00:27:35,882.327763 The shift has moved from the West into the majority of the world, Latin America, Africa, Asia, the majority of Christians are living within these regions and not the global. 239 00:27:36,142.327763 --> 00:27:40,162.327763 West, where a lot of the templates we've received has come from those spaces. 240 00:27:40,642.327763 --> 00:28:07,419.4500746 With these demographic shifts that have happened within the majority world, how do you imagine or perhaps re imagine what global Christianity looks like? But particularly as I speak to you as a theologian, as a pastor, will this impact and how should this impact and change the way that we understand theology, interact with discipleship, community, and mission? Very loaded question and I can keep unpacking it a little bit, but I think you get what I mean in the sense of there is the shift. 241 00:28:07,419.4500746 --> 00:28:10,950.8434687 We've received this template, but the world is globalized now. 242 00:28:11,10.8434687 --> 00:28:13,354.6886698 It's not the same world we received those templates in. 243 00:28:13,354.6886698 --> 00:28:26,492.2079568 And so could you just speak into that for a moment? when you have a template it's useful in a sense because you start with something, right? and then you could improve upon it, innovate it, and do something with it. 244 00:28:27,152.3770512 --> 00:28:35,137.8315967 that template could, of course, people reared in the digital world, I mean, everything copy paste is just the easy way out. 245 00:28:35,417.8315967 --> 00:28:39,453.6904343 You just copy paste everything, right? if it is good, just copy paste it. 246 00:28:39,543.6894343 --> 00:28:47,873.6904343 And copy paste theology, copy paste missiology, copy paste discipleship, it's just That's the easier way to go about it. 247 00:28:48,373.6904343 --> 00:28:58,911.8722525 And digital technology, in a way, facilitates that easy copy pasting of things because things now are more accessible to everyone. 248 00:28:59,1.8722525 --> 00:29:15,942.1477608 I mean, you do there in South Africa, it could very easily get across Manila, right? But just the same thing now that we are made aware of how the world is different and huge and close as well. 249 00:29:16,812.1487608 --> 00:29:21,78.9334593 And so we realize that K pop is a world on its own. 250 00:29:21,338.9334593 --> 00:29:31,108.6198454 I mean, there's a way to enjoy K pop in the same way that you don't, compare it with Hollywood pop, right? I mean, which one is better? It's just, they are different things. 251 00:29:31,669.5125447 --> 00:29:33,789.5125447 and cultures are also like that. 252 00:29:34,599.5125447 --> 00:29:45,4.264694 And what I'm thinking is that now that they say that 70 to 80 percent of Christians now live in the majority world, Asia, Africa, South America. 253 00:29:45,764.264694 --> 00:30:00,251.9009697 And so I think a huge responsibility especially leaders from those regions, to take up is to how to help their own people to work something from their own context. 254 00:30:00,851.9019697 --> 00:30:06,946.445674 Mean, copy pasting can get us somewhere, but if this continues to, be where we are. 255 00:30:09,110.1172711 --> 00:30:13,810.1172711 And all the more that people need to think seriously about it. 256 00:30:14,200.1172711 --> 00:30:18,239.6637957 Because, one scholar of word Christianity, Dr. 257 00:30:18,239.6637957 --> 00:30:28,811.4499343 Professor Andrew Wall said, What is very interesting about Christianity is, unlike other religions, they started, that's still their center. 258 00:30:29,911.4499343 --> 00:30:39,451.4499343 But with regards to Christianity, it's like, And a living organism, it moves from one geographical center to the other. 259 00:30:39,981.4499343 --> 00:30:41,611.4499343 And when it moves, it really moves. 260 00:30:42,121.4499343 --> 00:30:56,22.9706269 we think of the movement of Christianity that way, then where the spirit of God is working now in this region, in the majority world, then the responsibility of what similar to what Apostle Paul did. 261 00:30:56,582.9706269 --> 00:30:58,372.9706269 It's already knocking on this door. 262 00:30:58,892.9706269 --> 00:31:07,216.6350938 Yeah, it's good that, during the Jerusalem Council, you have these reflections from the Jewish religious history. 263 00:31:08,246.6350938 --> 00:31:09,946.6340938 It's good, just copy paste it. 264 00:31:10,646.6350938 --> 00:31:15,606.6350938 Apostle Paul ended up trying to think because the context is different, but the people are different. 265 00:31:16,96.6350938 --> 00:31:22,44.3879838 And I think the same goes now for Christianity in the majority world. 266 00:31:23,164.3879838 --> 00:31:24,514.3879838 We have resources. 267 00:31:24,794.3879838 --> 00:31:31,324.3879838 We are not starting from scratch because we are part of this global, not just global, historical. 268 00:31:31,364.3879838 --> 00:31:35,864.3879838 There's a long line of history, long line of Christian reflections. 269 00:31:36,384.3879838 --> 00:31:38,774.3879838 We don't need to stop from there. 270 00:31:39,124.3879838 --> 00:31:49,974.3879838 That's actually the starting point of where our living out of the faith becomes even more exciting at this point in time. 271 00:31:50,204.3879838 --> 00:31:54,334.3879838 And I could just, I mean, sometimes when I think about it, I'm just mesmerized. 272 00:31:54,864.3869838 --> 00:32:13,908.729862 Because when I talk to people from South America, when I was in Colombia, For example, when I was in Nepal, things that I take for granted, as someone who is a Filipino or knows a lot of American theology, when I went there, just don't work that way. 273 00:32:14,168.730862 --> 00:32:15,438.730862 I could not assume. 274 00:32:15,918.730862 --> 00:32:20,208.630862 And the insights that they have brought, arising from their own experience. 275 00:32:21,38.730862 --> 00:32:35,665.9446715 Point of reference is something that I myself would have no way of Thinking it because I am not from that I do not have it and hearing from them just expands the way I understand about how God is moving into this world thank you for that. 276 00:32:35,665.9446715 --> 00:32:37,675.9446715 Thanks for sharing a bit of those perspectives. 277 00:32:37,715.9446715 --> 00:32:39,205.9446715 I love that idea of that. 278 00:32:39,205.9446715 --> 00:32:42,205.9436715 We're not just part of a global church, but part of a historical church. 279 00:32:42,605.9446715 --> 00:32:52,789.9045032 And part of our responsibility is to identify where we are in that point of history and how to bring the gospel faithfully into our own context and our own space. 280 00:32:53,289.9045032 --> 00:32:58,314.9055032 So I'd imagine that there's church leaders who are listening to this they're resonating with what you're saying. 281 00:32:58,324.9055032 --> 00:33:01,894.9055032 As a pastor you can perhaps speak into their context. 282 00:33:01,924.9055032 --> 00:33:03,704.9055032 They're saying, you know, I am where I am. 283 00:33:03,714.9055032 --> 00:33:05,784.8805365 I'm in this specific space in the world. 284 00:33:06,134.8795365 --> 00:33:14,218.8699117 Perhaps like you, my church understanding is Americanized or it's you know, from wherever they've received the gospel. 285 00:33:14,888.8699117 --> 00:33:24,836.5663688 What practical steps could you give them as you're speaking into helping them take steps to, apply the gospel into their own context, to be able to contextualize it for their own space. 286 00:33:25,126.5663688 --> 00:33:27,46.5673688 Imagine that you're sitting at a conference. 287 00:33:27,86.5663688 --> 00:33:31,686.5663688 This is the task that you've been given to help them take practical steps, but do it in a few minutes. 288 00:33:32,46.5663688 --> 00:33:44,741.9009993 What steps can church leaders take, mission leaders take in terms of applying this? For some of these new centers, or where Christianity is taking root now, are actually not new. 289 00:33:45,261.8999993 --> 00:33:46,611.9009993 They are just re emerging. 290 00:33:47,661.9009993 --> 00:33:54,321.9009993 Christianity in Africa was older than Christianity in Europe or in the United States. 291 00:33:54,881.9009993 --> 00:34:03,241.9009993 And as I learned from an African scholar, Kwame Bediakof, right? Just being able to remember history. 292 00:34:04,246.9009993 --> 00:34:08,96.9009993 Way beyond what we are taught in seminary is a good step. 293 00:34:08,540.2343326 --> 00:34:12,397.5070599 Because, example, church is not the first church in that land. 294 00:34:13,387.5070599 --> 00:34:16,37.5070599 must be places like India. 295 00:34:16,627.5060599 --> 00:34:20,547.5070599 I mean, Christianity in India is way older. 296 00:34:21,247.5080599 --> 00:34:23,167.5070599 I mean, straight from St. 297 00:34:23,177.5070599 --> 00:34:23,587.5070599 Thomas. 298 00:34:23,607.5070599 --> 00:34:29,351.3824872 And sometimes, being able to remember history it's a good way forward. 299 00:34:29,401.3824872 --> 00:34:41,446.3512695 We have a saying here in the, Philippines in English once who does not look back towards, or one who does not remember the past, will not be able to navigate the future. 300 00:34:42,316.3512695 --> 00:34:47,346.3512695 And for many pastors local leaders anchoring ourselves into. 301 00:34:48,196.3512695 --> 00:34:50,196.3512695 What is, what has happened in the past. 302 00:34:50,656.3512695 --> 00:34:53,376.3512695 It's always a good step backward. 303 00:34:54,593.6097051 --> 00:34:57,943.6097051 it's a step backward because it allows you to move also forward. 304 00:34:58,866.1097051 --> 00:35:10,765.1505107 So in sometimes being able to remember and sometimes recognize that you have a deep Christian history and this is just a re emergence of what was before. 305 00:35:11,425.1505107 --> 00:35:18,775.1505107 Think that's something that is within rich because it is within that particular area or locality as well. 306 00:35:19,400.1505107 --> 00:35:20,120.1505107 It was just lost. 307 00:35:20,120.1505107 --> 00:35:24,580.1505107 As I mentioned a while ago, sometimes your identity was lost and you have to recover it. 308 00:35:25,200.1505107 --> 00:35:26,410.1505107 Still going back to that theme. 309 00:35:27,60.7868743 --> 00:35:45,16.8707965 what words of encouragement or advice would you offer someone striving to live out their faith authentically within their culture and context? they say that the language you really live on is the language that you dream in. 310 00:35:45,596.9707965 --> 00:35:52,406.9665886 And we, are in an exciting moment in church, in the life of the church. 311 00:35:52,851.9665886 --> 00:35:56,21.9665886 Of what God is doing to his people in the world. 312 00:35:56,691.9665886 --> 00:36:10,979.9781087 And it would be great to dream new dreams, right? I think it would be really not just great, but a sweeter to be able to dream the familiar pictures that you have in your home, in your homeland. 313 00:36:10,979.9781087 --> 00:36:13,649.9791087 And dream in your own language as well. 314 00:36:13,679.9791087 --> 00:36:16,119.9791087 The familiar sounds, songs, and music. 315 00:36:19,281.0673351 --> 00:36:25,201.0673351 and reconnect those dreams with who you were and who, and who you can be. 316 00:36:26,410.3400624 --> 00:36:30,460.3400624 Once again, I can see that artist coming out of you connected with your pastoral heart. 317 00:36:30,470.3400624 --> 00:36:31,820.3400624 Thank you for that. 318 00:36:31,840.3400624 --> 00:36:35,200.3400624 Listen, we're going to have to start bringing this podcast to a close. 319 00:36:35,200.3400624 --> 00:36:39,620.3390624 I, I mentioned in the beginning that I was excited to see where this conversation would take us. 320 00:36:40,60.3400624 --> 00:36:42,20.3395624 And I'm not disappointed. 321 00:36:42,20.3395624 --> 00:36:44,259.5131707 I feel like we've landed in a sweet space. 322 00:36:44,969.5131707 --> 00:36:46,529.5131707 We've spoken a lot about the past. 323 00:36:46,529.5131707 --> 00:36:47,979.5131707 We've spoken a lot about the present. 324 00:36:48,249.5131707 --> 00:36:51,29.5131707 I'd like for a moment as we're bringing this to a close chat a bit about the future. 325 00:36:51,504.5131707 --> 00:37:08,15.1040798 As you look to the future, are there any particular projects or areas of research that you're excited about and how can our listeners support or get involved in these initiatives? what really gets me excited in the different roles that I have is that I I'm able to connect different voices from different parts of the world. 326 00:37:08,595.1040798 --> 00:37:19,842.008075 And what I'm on is for these different voices, not just to be confident of how they sound, but for these voices to hear each other. 327 00:37:20,842.008075 --> 00:37:26,592.008075 Not necessarily to copy each other, but to hear each other and be encouraged by what they hear. 328 00:37:27,162.008075 --> 00:37:36,853.0608578 And not just encouraged, but inspired To even be more confident of being who they are because they could learn and share from people across the world. 329 00:37:36,853.0608578 --> 00:37:39,483.0598578 And that's one thing that I'm, I'm, I'm working on. 330 00:37:39,943.0608578 --> 00:37:47,680.0721735 I mean, I'm working on a series of publications and webinars as well with the WEA and other partners as well. 331 00:37:48,120.0721735 --> 00:37:49,100.0721735 And linking this. 332 00:37:49,431.7959862 --> 00:37:51,861.7959862 voices across the world and becoming friends. 333 00:37:51,911.7959862 --> 00:38:00,661.7959862 I would not forget how John Studd, for example, and Rene Padilla made Lausanne a really rich space because they were able to connect. 334 00:38:00,691.7959862 --> 00:38:05,331.7959862 They were able to hear each other and they were able to understand each other and learn from each other. 335 00:38:05,511.7949862 --> 00:38:09,171.7959862 And those are the kind of things that really gets me excited in what I do now. 336 00:38:10,288.1817383 --> 00:38:21,28.9654318 And where can our listeners, get a hold of some of those resources that you just mentioned? A good piece to start is the Theological News, which is acquired Digest by the word Evangelical, Alliance. 337 00:38:21,33.9654318 --> 00:38:26,698.9654318 We also have a series of podcasts with the KLC, with the Kirby Lying Center, and you can Google that up. 338 00:38:26,832.2987651 --> 00:38:28,597.2987651 series we're working on is. 339 00:38:29,207.2987651 --> 00:38:37,492.1724359 What does it mean to be evangelical today in the majority world? What does evangelical looks like in Ethiopia, for example? That's really good. 340 00:38:37,492.1724359 --> 00:38:43,206.2317838 And where can people find you if they want to get hold of you or contact you? I rant actively in Facebook. 341 00:38:43,206.2317838 --> 00:38:44,686.2307838 You can, they can find me. 342 00:38:44,726.2317838 --> 00:38:49,626.2317838 But I still, I belong to the old school of bloggers. 343 00:38:49,646.2317838 --> 00:38:52,66.2317838 I still maintain my tumblr account. 344 00:38:52,66.2317838 --> 00:38:54,966.2317838 It's called hapmentxgenesisray. 345 00:38:55,26.2317838 --> 00:38:55,626.2317838 tumblr. 346 00:38:55,656.2307838 --> 00:38:58,306.2317838 com, and I still do a lot of those. 347 00:38:59,769.944888 --> 00:39:00,239.944888 Wonderful. 348 00:39:00,239.944888 --> 00:39:04,639.944888 I'm going to make sure to put that in the podcast notes, the show notes for, those who are interested. 349 00:39:05,19.944888 --> 00:39:14,197.944888 Ray, as we bring this to a close, any final thoughts that you want to leave with us as you, think about what we've spoken about, anything you want to leave with our podcast audience? Sure thing. 350 00:39:14,257.944888 --> 00:39:20,882.5992168 I mean, in a table now that we now have a global table of Christianity right before us. 351 00:39:21,402.6002168 --> 00:39:24,390.651371 And it would be great if that, table becomes a feast. 352 00:39:25,0.652371 --> 00:39:30,270.652371 Different kinds of things in there and different kinds of coffee. 353 00:39:30,330.652371 --> 00:39:31,630.652371 We all enjoy coffee. 354 00:39:32,50.652371 --> 00:39:46,650.651371 Right? But in being able to enjoy coffee from Kenya, coffee from Sumatra, coffee from Colombia, I mean, and recognizing and respecting how those things can be different and still bring a common source of joys for each one of us. 355 00:39:47,120.651371 --> 00:39:53,740.652371 I think that's a good metaphor for how we could enjoy Christianity in this exciting new frontier that God is opening up to us. 356 00:39:54,229.152371 --> 00:39:54,939.152371 That's so good. 357 00:39:54,939.152371 --> 00:39:56,19.152371 I'm a sucker for coffee. 358 00:39:56,39.152371 --> 00:39:58,749.152371 So I love the way that we're ending up this podcast. 359 00:39:58,749.152371 --> 00:39:59,819.152371 It's making me thirsty. 360 00:40:00,122.4857044 --> 00:40:01,912.4857044 So Ray, thank you so much. 361 00:40:01,912.4857044 --> 00:40:05,2.0303084 I hope that, you are blessed as you go ahead with your ministry. 362 00:40:05,402.0303084 --> 00:40:07,952.0313084 And for our podcast audience, thank you for joining us today. 363 00:40:08,282.0313084 --> 00:40:09,352.0313084 Blessings to everyone. 364 00:40:09,472.0313084 --> 00:40:10,252.0303084 Until next week. 365 00:40:12,313.4395249 --> 00:40:15,703.4395249 But I hope that you enjoyed this episode of the Lausanne Movement Podcast. 366 00:40:16,63.4395249 --> 00:40:22,483.4395249 If you liked this episode, why don't you take a moment to give us a rating and review? And give us a shout out on social media. 367 00:40:23,163.4395249 --> 00:40:31,153.4395249 next week, we'll be back with another episode that we hope will inspire you to accelerate global mission within your own space. 368 00:40:31,873.4395249 --> 00:40:32,833.4395249 Until next week. 369 00:40:33,283.4395249 --> 00:40:33,703.4395249 Cheers.