Discipleship Through Community: Everyone in Groups, Every Group on Mission with Lindsey Jodts

Episode Transcript
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.824409823what is disciple making, it's really inviting people and helping empower people to become the fullest, most Christ-like version of the themselves in their unique particularity. 2 00:00:12,994.51605147 --> 00:00:35,496.925794928 as you can draw that out of people and invite them to go, who are you in the kingdom of God? How have you been wired? And what does that look like in this community? What does it look like in the church? How do we have our eyes on the person that's brand new in the room? And how do we have our eyes on the person that has been in the room for 20 years there is something powerful when we intentionally create space to share stories safely. 3 00:00:37,806.266060072 --> 00:00:41,676.266060072 A very warm welcome to the Lizanne Movement Podcast. 4 00:00:41,766.266060072 --> 00:00:46,386.266060072 For those who have a passion to accelerate global mission together. 5 00:00:46,537.314031607 --> 00:00:53,707.314031607 I'm your host, Jason Watson, and today on the podcast we are exploring discipleship through the lens of community. 6 00:00:53,843.489811613 --> 00:01:01,313.489811613 In order to help us unpack this theme, we are joined by Lindsey Jots, the group's pastor at Willow Creek Community Church. 7 00:01:01,985.994239142 --> 00:01:10,895.994239142 Lindsey takes the time to share lessons that they've learned as a church, as they seek to disciple their people through the context of small groups. 8 00:01:11,199.593991542 --> 00:01:18,767.561139872 As Lindsey shares, she shares the lessons they've learned, but she also shares how we can apply these lessons within our own context. 9 00:01:19,30.894473205 --> 00:01:28,480.894473205 so if you're passionate about discipleship, you're passionate about groups, then I wanna invite you to grab your headphones and let's dive into today's interview with Lindsey Jots. 10 00:01:30,884.870179295 --> 00:01:32,924.870179295 Well, Lindsey, welcome to the podcast. 11 00:01:32,924.870179295 --> 00:01:33,834.870179295 It's great to have you with us. 12 00:01:34,116.328060071 --> 00:01:34,446.328060071 Yeah. 13 00:01:34,446.328060071 --> 00:01:35,586.328060071 Thanks for having me, Jason. 14 00:01:35,586.328060071 --> 00:01:37,956.328060071 It's good to be here and I'm excited to talk. 15 00:01:38,292.292135076 --> 00:01:52,742.29213508 Yeah, so I was sharing with you off air that part of my role in the church that I used to be a part of and be a pastor at part of my role was small groups and life groups and helping the leaders in their journeys or pastoring and caring for their groups. 16 00:01:52,742.29213508 --> 00:02:02,942.29213508 And so I'm really excited for this conversation because I've seen the value of small groups in the lives of people and in their formation. 17 00:02:03,2.29213508 --> 00:02:11,552.29213508 And so I'm really excited and I'm hoping that we can draw out some great information and we can really inspire the leaders who are listening here from different contexts. 18 00:02:12,2.29213508 --> 00:02:18,832.29213508 But what I love doing as we jump into the podcast is just hearing the backstory to all the guests that join us. 19 00:02:18,832.29213508 --> 00:02:26,456.20621211 So, to kick us off, could you share a bit about your journey into ministry and what first drew you into the world of small groups of discipleship? I'd love to hear it. 20 00:02:27,16.92228236 --> 00:02:27,496.92228236 Oh gosh. 21 00:02:27,526.92228236 --> 00:02:32,686.92228236 Okay, so, um, I will speed read this version of my story. 22 00:02:32,761.9368089 --> 00:02:34,351.9368089 I've had a lot of jobs. 23 00:02:34,351.9368089 --> 00:02:37,621.9368089 I've been on a, it was a windy journey to get into ministry. 24 00:02:38,11.9368089 --> 00:02:43,801.9368089 Um, and actually I like to joke that I have no bus business being a pastor. 25 00:02:43,801.9368089 --> 00:02:51,871.9368089 And the people that knew me 20 years ago when they find out that I'm a pastor, they like, are like, what? What, what do you mean? So in a beautiful way. 26 00:02:51,901.9368089 --> 00:02:59,861.9368089 'cause God has been building my journey towards moving into ministry, but it didn't seem obvious for a very long time. 27 00:03:00,251.9368089 --> 00:03:02,471.9368089 I was a history major in college. 28 00:03:02,471.9368089 --> 00:03:11,31.59850057 I actually went to school to teach, high school and junior I, social studies, social sciences, so history, uh, psychology, eco economics, geography, things like that. 29 00:03:11,751.59850057 --> 00:03:14,121.59850057 And that was what I planned to do. 30 00:03:14,121.59850057 --> 00:03:20,421.59850057 And I, because of some changes in what we were doing in American education, there weren't a ton of jobs. 31 00:03:20,421.59850057 --> 00:03:23,481.59850057 So I sort of just found my way in different things. 32 00:03:23,481.59850057 --> 00:03:32,210.34582508 I was in sales and I worked in, uh, I was an office manager and did PR for, uh, wellness center, things like that. 33 00:03:32,210.34582508 --> 00:03:36,620.34582508 Ended up working actually in investment banking as a deal administrator. 34 00:03:36,620.34582508 --> 00:03:47,213.88935017 And then as I ran, uh, marketing, like I did our global marketing initiatives like press releases and copy and, advertisements, graphic design, things like that. 35 00:03:48,53.88935017 --> 00:03:56,303.88935017 And when I got pregnant with my son, I was working at an investment bank doing marketing and investment banking. 36 00:03:56,303.88935017 --> 00:04:01,823.88935017 Life, I'm guessing is the same as it is where you are as it is. 37 00:04:01,823.88935017 --> 00:04:02,483.88935017 Here it is. 38 00:04:02,753.88935017 --> 00:04:06,353.88935017 The hours are not kind to especially young moms. 39 00:04:06,803.88935017 --> 00:04:08,693.88935017 And so when I. 40 00:04:08,969.54430951 --> 00:04:14,549.54430951 Had my son, I decided to step back from that and was working really part-time. 41 00:04:14,549.54430951 --> 00:04:18,719.54430951 They were really kind to offer me something part-time from home, at least for a little while. 42 00:04:18,976.21097618 --> 00:04:23,334.04767206 but then when my son was about a year and a half, I was pregnant with my daughter. 43 00:04:23,442.10622869 --> 00:04:29,802.10622869 that retainer ended and I was looking for some work and I was looking really specifically like I need to be a certain distance from home. 44 00:04:29,802.10622869 --> 00:04:35,382.10622869 'cause I live in the Chicago suburbs and so I'm an hour from downtown and so I couldn't work in the city. 45 00:04:35,382.10622869 --> 00:04:36,792.10622869 I needed to be closer. 46 00:04:37,92.10622869 --> 00:04:42,765.625299 I needed it to have a certain, financial, be able to contribute in a certain way financially to my family. 47 00:04:42,855.625299 --> 00:04:49,425.625299 And I needed to be something that wasn't stressful and I already knew how to do because I was also figuring out I'm about to be a mom of two kids. 48 00:04:49,425.625299 --> 00:04:50,205.625299 This is crazy. 49 00:04:50,505.625299 --> 00:04:52,515.625299 Um, I don't need to learn a new skill right now. 50 00:04:53,25.625299 --> 00:05:03,508.95863234 So, um, I was actually in a mom's small group at a different church, not the church that we called home at the time, because the church we called home at the time just didn't really have a lot of young families. 51 00:05:03,568.95863234 --> 00:05:07,798.95863234 And so I actually found a church nearby about 15 minutes from our house. 52 00:05:07,798.95863234 --> 00:05:13,588.95863234 It was a, a big multi-site church and I drove by it and said that church has something for moms. 53 00:05:13,648.95863234 --> 00:05:22,738.95863234 I bet when I was like doing the car nap thing, I don't know if your kids ever had the car nap situation at like four or five months when you're like, can you just sleep? Okay. 54 00:05:22,738.95863234 --> 00:05:28,408.95863234 So I'm driving down this busy street in our town and I drive by this church and joined this mom's group. 55 00:05:28,408.95863234 --> 00:05:30,388.95863234 And so I had been in this mom's group about a year. 56 00:05:31,158.95863234 --> 00:05:37,728.95863234 And I was talking to my group and had been praying with them about, Hey, this is kind of what I need for a job. 57 00:05:37,968.95863234 --> 00:05:55,167.29196567 And it's pretty specific and I don't know that it's gonna be able to be that, but I would love for just God to show up in what's next because God had walked me through this journey out of the investment banking world into, being at home with my kids and then was inviting me back to work. 58 00:05:55,167.29196567 --> 00:05:56,487.29196567 And I felt really strong about that. 59 00:05:57,387.29196567 --> 00:06:04,317.29196567 And I get a text, a random text from my small group leader like two weeks after I had mentioned this situation to my group. 60 00:06:04,317.29196567 --> 00:06:16,617.29196567 And they're praying and talking and, and you know, what about this, what about this? And it, I get a text and it's a screenshot of a this was back when we did like, still did physical paper bulletins like 10 years ago. 61 00:06:16,977.29196567 --> 00:06:22,497.29196567 And it was a advertisement in the, in the bulletin for a. 62 00:06:23,52.29196567 --> 00:06:26,802.29196567 Executive assistant to the groups team at her church. 63 00:06:26,862.29196567 --> 00:06:38,352.29196567 And so I was like, I had been, before that, before I was in marketing, I had been the executive assistant to, um, a whole team of bankers, executive assistant to a CEO of a, of an, of a global investment bank. 64 00:06:38,382.29196567 --> 00:06:47,772.29196567 I was like, if I can do that, I can probably do this without really like having to onboard what is it like to be an assistant, things like that. 65 00:06:47,772.29196567 --> 00:06:49,422.29196567 It's just the industry would be different. 66 00:06:49,872.29196567 --> 00:06:51,42.29196567 So I was like, this is perfect. 67 00:06:51,42.29196567 --> 00:06:57,432.29196567 It hit exactly like the dollar amount to the dollar that I had mentioned. 68 00:06:57,492.29196567 --> 00:07:03,852.29196567 It was 15 minutes for my house, and it was in Indu in a role that I was like, I know I can do that. 69 00:07:03,852.29196567 --> 00:07:05,52.29196567 It's not gonna be stressful. 70 00:07:05,365.625299 --> 00:07:20,215.625299 so I got that job, gosh, I was like seven months pregnant and they were graceful enough to hire me, train me, get me onboarded, let me be gone for the, You, know, 12 weeks to, to be home with my daughter and then start back up at the, you know, at, in the new year. 71 00:07:20,890.625299 --> 00:07:23,530.625299 And I was there about a year. 72 00:07:23,530.625299 --> 00:07:25,660.625299 That was my first ministry job. 73 00:07:26,20.625299 --> 00:07:33,100.625299 And because I had already had that executive assistant experience, there wasn't a lot of onboarding from like, this is how you manage this. 74 00:07:33,100.625299 --> 00:07:37,300.625299 And, and I had done a lot of event planning for them in, in my previous role. 75 00:07:37,300.625299 --> 00:07:45,310.625299 So a lot of the stuff that they were asking me to do, it wasn't, the onboarding was quicker because of, again, I like unknowingly, God was orchestrating my story. 76 00:07:45,850.625299 --> 00:07:51,730.625299 And so when we had gaps in our team, I, started to take on projects that were pastoral. 77 00:07:51,970.625299 --> 00:07:55,300.625299 Um, I stepped in as an interim singles pastor in interim twenties, pastor. 78 00:07:55,300.625299 --> 00:08:04,750.625299 I was taking on, um, I helped with leader, the new leader training when we needed to do, develop that, just because we went through, we had gaps in our team, and they're like, you can do this. 79 00:08:04,750.625299 --> 00:08:06,700.625299 Why don't you try it? You seem excited. 80 00:08:06,700.625299 --> 00:08:10,480.625299 And it was about a year into that, that I said, I don't think this is a job. 81 00:08:11,320.625299 --> 00:08:13,390.625299 I think this is what I'm supposed to be doing. 82 00:08:14,140.625299 --> 00:08:17,50.625299 And so then I sat down with my, with the, the. 83 00:08:17,800.625299 --> 00:08:22,420.625299 Adult ministries director at that time and said, I, I think this is what I should be doing. 84 00:08:22,810.625299 --> 00:08:35,270.625299 What would, what would it look like for me to explore pastoral ministry? And we had talked about gifting and skills and the, like, my combination of passions and just my natural disposition. 85 00:08:35,540.625299 --> 00:08:44,480.625299 And I felt really strongly that I needed to go back to school, not because I think every pastor needs to have like formalized training. 86 00:08:44,480.625299 --> 00:08:59,760.625299 I think it's really helpful, but for me, I felt as if if I'm going to especially teach or preach or, um, have these theological conversations, I felt like I should have this skillset of being equipped to do that well. 87 00:08:59,790.625299 --> 00:09:03,390.625299 Like I didn't feel like, oh, I'll just like, it'll be fine. 88 00:09:03,790.625299 --> 00:09:09,940.625299 I really felt strongly that I needed a theological education and so, I went back to school and got a master's in ministry leadership. 89 00:09:09,940.625299 --> 00:09:16,391.69750832 So it was like half, Masters of organizational leadership for nonprofits half like practical theology degree. 90 00:09:16,671.69750832 --> 00:09:20,611.69750832 And it was the most formative thing maybe I've ever done in my life. 91 00:09:20,881.69750832 --> 00:09:23,731.69750832 It was hard and beautiful and wild. 92 00:09:23,776.80385948 --> 00:09:32,266.80385948 and then after I graduated, I started looking for pastoral role, switched into a pastoral role from an admin role at my last church, and I was the pastor there. 93 00:09:32,548.96891954 --> 00:09:37,856.66563027 I was the community groups pastor, kind of helping support community groups across all the campuses at that church. 94 00:09:37,916.66563027 --> 00:09:44,636.66563027 And then I came to Willow three years ago and have been a groups pastor at our South Barrington campus since. 95 00:09:44,636.66563027 --> 00:09:46,964.99896361 So that's the, that's the path. 96 00:09:47,288.54108283 --> 00:09:50,288.54108283 you know, I, I really appreciate you taking time just to share it. 97 00:09:50,358.54108283 --> 00:09:58,848.54108283 Because what I love about hearing people's stories is just how God weaves different realities from our past and our experience together. 98 00:09:59,28.54108283 --> 00:10:02,658.54108283 And he brings us to a point where it all kind of culminates together. 99 00:10:02,658.54108283 --> 00:10:10,548.54108283 So you mentioned you used to be an assistant at, you know, the bank, and then there was assistant role, you were a manager and you're managing groups now. 100 00:10:10,548.54108283 --> 00:10:16,818.54108283 You know, so like all of these things come together and you can just see how God weaves all of these realities together. 101 00:10:16,818.54108283 --> 00:10:25,419.99896361 So thank you for sharing a bit about Even the history degree and the teaching degree and like has all shown up and I'm like, okay, that's a lot. 102 00:10:25,749.99896361 --> 00:10:26,49.99896361 Yeah. 103 00:10:26,199.99896361 --> 00:10:27,9.99896361 it's wild. 104 00:10:27,69.99896361 --> 00:10:34,548.54108283 And I, I thought I would never use it again, So, part of the reason why we have you on here is because Lausanne has a vision. 105 00:10:34,938.54108283 --> 00:10:40,488.54108283 And we speak about making and helping disciple making churches for every people in place. 106 00:10:40,488.54108283 --> 00:10:42,678.54108283 That's, that's a vision of our organization. 107 00:10:43,128.54108283 --> 00:10:57,165.35169827 From your vantage point as a community groups director and pastor in your church, what does it mean for a church truly to be a disciple making church? There's lots of different kind of lanes that we can take. 108 00:10:57,225.35169827 --> 00:11:11,745.35169827 I think when it comes to like, what is disciple making, it's really inviting people and helping empower people to become the fullest, most Christ-like version of the themselves in their unique particularity. 109 00:11:11,775.35169827 --> 00:11:16,205.09077209 So, I believe that the most sacred thing about people is the most unique thing about them. 110 00:11:16,505.09077209 --> 00:11:26,882.24845049 So there are specific wirings and passions and pieces of your story that matter deeply to God, and they can be conduits to connect to God and for God to connect through you to the world. 111 00:11:26,972.24845049 --> 00:11:33,842.24845049 And so helping people discover that in practical ways, not just the like, conceptual ways. 112 00:11:33,872.24845049 --> 00:11:37,862.24845049 'cause, 'cause churches kind of sometimes get stuck in the, like, we're gonna go. 113 00:11:38,197.24845049 --> 00:11:41,107.24845049 Big theology concept of like, you're gonna understand this. 114 00:11:41,287.24845049 --> 00:11:45,757.24845049 And then sometimes churches go, we're only gonna live it out and we're not actually gonna infuse both. 115 00:11:45,757.24845049 --> 00:11:51,547.24845049 And so helping people to discover that and become the most Christlike version of themselves. 116 00:11:51,817.24845049 --> 00:11:59,137.24845049 And a lot of times that happens through living out different aspects of what it means to be part of the church. 117 00:11:59,167.24845049 --> 00:12:08,737.24845049 And so it's being in community because that's how we learn and we refine each other and we, we grow when we hear each other's stories and we experience unity and healing when we hear each other's stories. 118 00:12:08,947.24845049 --> 00:12:20,871.24410809 It's in inviting people to feel safe in the church, to understand who God is actually, and continue asking the question, who is God really, I think is really important, creating that safety. 119 00:12:21,348.04947811 --> 00:12:30,678.04947811 but then seeing, like always leading them to a next step that moves them towards holistic engagement in the life of the church, both locally and globally. 120 00:12:30,738.04947811 --> 00:12:32,628.04947811 And so they should like. 121 00:12:33,673.04947811 --> 00:12:45,944.61070996 Someone that is on a long discipleship journey should be moving towards serving in the local church, engaging in their passion area in the global church, being part of community and leading and serving out of their gifts. 122 00:12:45,944.61070996 --> 00:12:52,94.61070996 They should be engaging in, um, whatever sacred rhythms allow them to connect to God in their own personal lives. 123 00:12:52,94.61070996 --> 00:12:54,704.61070996 And also inviting people to go on that journey with them. 124 00:12:55,94.61070996 --> 00:12:56,594.61070996 Um, and that comes through empowering. 125 00:12:56,594.61070996 --> 00:12:57,614.61070996 It comes through community. 126 00:12:57,614.61070996 --> 00:13:00,224.61070996 There's a bunch of different ways that you can get there. 127 00:13:00,569.90290302 --> 00:13:14,339.90290302 but I think there's whatever your methodology is in your church and your strategy based on your community, really, it, it comes down to how are we doing those things so that people can live out their fullest self in the glory that God has woven into them. 128 00:13:14,973.34062929 --> 00:13:23,493.34062929 I really love about what you've been speaking about is you kind of made two distinctions that I think sometimes we silo out, um, and we put them into different camps. 129 00:13:23,613.34062929 --> 00:13:32,553.34062929 And the one is, you spoke about the individual, right? And you spoke about how important it is, how God has created us as individuals. 130 00:13:32,553.34062929 --> 00:13:36,213.34062929 And part of our discipleship is about discovering that uniqueness. 131 00:13:36,347.26942357 --> 00:13:38,837.26942357 and then the other element that you spoke about was a communal element. 132 00:13:38,837.26942357 --> 00:13:41,327.26942357 I mean, your role is completely communal. 133 00:13:41,327.26942357 --> 00:13:45,407.26942357 It's about putting people into the group so that they can be conformed to the image of Jesus. 134 00:13:45,467.26942357 --> 00:13:50,187.26942357 And so I would love to hear from you just off the cuff, how do you reconcile. 135 00:13:50,757.26942357 --> 00:14:01,677.26942357 Those two realities of individualism, which in the West is, is a huge part of our culture and the communal element, which is part of your role and your desire to see the individuals come into community. 136 00:14:01,677.26942357 --> 00:14:07,278.72730435 How do those two worlds kind of meet each other in terms of Christlike transformation? Oh my gosh. 137 00:14:07,368.72730435 --> 00:14:08,898.72730435 That's the million dollar question. 138 00:14:08,898.72730435 --> 00:14:12,378.72730435 I suppose if I could answer that, I'd be like transforming churches around the world. 139 00:14:12,618.72730435 --> 00:14:12,948.72730435 Right. 140 00:14:13,248.72730435 --> 00:14:13,882.26942357 Um, it. 141 00:14:13,882.26942357 --> 00:14:14,322.26942357 Sell it. 142 00:14:16,290.77199319 --> 00:14:24,841.65874064 I think you have to see it as a both and thing, and you have to invite people to, the both and journey of community. 143 00:14:24,871.65874064 --> 00:14:26,641.65874064 It's, it's, we are in this together. 144 00:14:26,641.65874064 --> 00:14:36,961.65874064 We are learning, we are digging in, we are sharing stories, we're being connected, but we are never losing the identity of the one for the identity of the whole. 145 00:14:37,21.65874064 --> 00:14:40,381.65874064 And we are never losing the identity of the whole for the identity of the one. 146 00:14:40,741.65874064 --> 00:14:45,301.65874064 Um, whether it's in your in your small group, that your small group is like. 147 00:14:46,56.65874064 --> 00:14:49,681.65874064 At, at Willow, we, we say every, everyone in a group, every group on mission. 148 00:14:49,681.65874064 --> 00:14:53,911.65874064 And by that we mean what is the, like heart song of your small group? Is it. 149 00:14:53,911.65874064 --> 00:15:07,329.49278926 to create safe community where new moms can take a deep breath? Is it to create a place like where you are serving in the antit traffic community? you are serving in a local church expression. 150 00:15:07,329.49278926 --> 00:15:11,687.32713858 You are, digging into the Bible in a way that is transformational. 151 00:15:11,687.32713858 --> 00:15:15,160.66047191 There's, there we have interest groups and, and groups that can kind of take any purpose. 152 00:15:15,460.66047191 --> 00:15:22,0.66047191 So, so really understanding and clarifying what is the, what is the goal and the role and the vision of this community. 153 00:15:22,860.66047191 --> 00:15:40,480.66047191 while Empowering and lifting up every single person in that community to have a unique role to play because every person matters to God as much as every community matters to God, and every person in that community has been placed there. 154 00:15:40,750.66047191 --> 00:15:47,710.66047191 We trust that when we launch our groups every term, we pray intentionally trusting that God is placing the right people in the right groups. 155 00:15:48,40.66047191 --> 00:15:50,200.66047191 And so there's a lot of faith. 156 00:15:50,230.66047191 --> 00:15:52,390.66047191 There's a lot of faith that, that, that involves. 157 00:15:52,520.66047191 --> 00:15:54,230.66047191 But it, I, I think it's true. 158 00:15:54,440.66047191 --> 00:15:57,680.66047191 I think God has wired every single person for a purpose. 159 00:15:57,770.66047191 --> 00:16:13,670.66047191 And so as you can draw that out of people and invite them to go, who are you in the kingdom of God? How have you been wired? And what does that look like in this community? What does it look like in the church? And so as you invite people to go, to not be afraid to say, this is how God has made me. 160 00:16:13,670.66047191 --> 00:16:16,760.66047191 This is how God has wired me, and this is the gift I have to share. 161 00:16:16,760.66047191 --> 00:16:16,850.66047191 And. 162 00:16:18,320.66047191 --> 00:16:19,670.66047191 Not think that that's there. 163 00:16:19,670.66047191 --> 00:16:28,190.66047191 There's, there's a difference between pride in your own self and a strength of conviction in knowing who you are as a child of God. 164 00:16:28,250.66047191 --> 00:16:35,210.66047191 And so inviting people to that posture and say, actually, this is a good thing and it matters, and this is how I can use it in this community. 165 00:16:35,360.66047191 --> 00:16:39,380.66047191 And this community is rallied around this and this is how we can use it in the church. 166 00:16:39,380.66047191 --> 00:16:41,750.6604719 And this is the mission and vision of our church. 167 00:16:41,990.6604719 --> 00:16:48,530.6604719 And then also, again, pointing to that holy discontent that they see in the world and say, that's actually important and that matters. 168 00:16:48,530.6604719 --> 00:16:55,70.6604719 And there's a community of people that you can come alongside and use that holy discontent and partner it with your gifting and make a difference. 169 00:16:55,381.3319894 --> 00:16:55,861.3319894 Okay. 170 00:16:56,101.3319894 --> 00:17:00,571.3319894 That was a really great answer to, to something that was totally off the cuff. 171 00:17:00,571.3319894 --> 00:17:09,469.5581859 And so I'm, I'm picking up that this is just floating out of you and I'm really keen to dive deeper into these kind of questions of how you actually make that happen. 172 00:17:09,889.5581859 --> 00:17:20,596.6927679 But before we do that, you know, many of the listeners will know Willow Creek, because of its history, because of the impact that an influence it's had over evangelical churches worldwide. 173 00:17:21,16.6927679 --> 00:17:24,498.326942 Uh, my church, for instance, in South Africa, in Pretoria. 174 00:17:24,908.326942 --> 00:17:29,78.326942 Very influenced by Willow Creek, by churches like Saddleback, et cetera. 175 00:17:29,678.326942 --> 00:17:38,618.326942 And we, we understand and we understand that Willow Creek had a huge impact on pioneering the seeker sensitive kind of attraction model. 176 00:17:39,248.326942 --> 00:18:08,430.93295 Looking back, what has Willow learned from that season where they were pioneering that attractional church model and how has it shaped? And I think you can mostly answer this question now because you've only been in the role a couple of years, but how has it shaped and changed the way that the church is living out, its ministry today? I think that seeker sensitive model really mattered at a time and place in history and culture where, the being seeker sensitive was. 177 00:18:08,850.93295 --> 00:18:12,900.93295 The EAs, the, the easiest invite, the best way to lead people towards Jesus. 178 00:18:12,930.93295 --> 00:18:15,900.93295 And so Willow is getting ready to celebrate its 50th anniversary. 179 00:18:16,110.93295 --> 00:18:25,300.3356375 We did not get here, without the, the invitation that Willow and other churches around the world said to, Hey, just come meet Jesus. 180 00:18:25,570.3356375 --> 00:18:26,320.3356375 Be safe here. 181 00:18:26,320.3356375 --> 00:18:27,280.3356375 Come as you are. 182 00:18:27,520.3356375 --> 00:18:32,110.3356375 And I, I think there's a generation of people that, that was really attractional for. 183 00:18:32,460.3356375 --> 00:18:34,680.3356375 But their research came out. 184 00:18:34,800.3356375 --> 00:18:42,600.3356375 You know, there's, there's been lots of talk about how sometimes that attractional model, like lets people go really wide, but not super deep. 185 00:18:42,847.5472746 --> 00:18:47,886.4860992 especially Willow once upon a time was, if you have a dream, let's put staff. 186 00:18:48,126.4860992 --> 00:18:49,896.4860992 You put dollars behind it and let's make it happen. 187 00:18:49,896.4860992 --> 00:18:54,696.4860992 So we believing that it was empowering people for the goodness of the church. 188 00:18:54,786.4860992 --> 00:18:57,156.4860992 And so in a lot of ways it did work. 189 00:18:57,486.4860992 --> 00:18:58,776.4860992 But there's also that. 190 00:18:59,76.4860992 --> 00:19:05,796.4860992 But what do we do about all these people that are like, like Paul talks about it as like Christians who are still on milk and not. 191 00:19:06,336.4860992 --> 00:19:06,906.4860992 On meat. 192 00:19:07,536.4860992 --> 00:19:18,6.4860992 And so the shift in the last couple years, at least as I have experienced it, is getting really strategic with what are the most formative ways that are still easy invites for people. 193 00:19:18,486.4860992 --> 00:19:27,846.4860992 Because getting people in community, getting people serving, getting people connected to the local church is the role of the local church. 194 00:19:27,846.4860992 --> 00:19:32,766.4860992 Getting people connected to God and inviting them into a community that is then forming them and shaping them. 195 00:19:32,886.4860992 --> 00:19:39,846.4860992 And so we, how we've started balancing it is we still want a ton of easy invitational places. 196 00:19:40,116.4860992 --> 00:19:43,446.4860992 The best way to get somebody in a small group is to personally invite them. 197 00:19:43,596.4860992 --> 00:19:59,826.4860992 And if you lower the bar and you train your people to go, you know what, it's not just Sundays that are invitational, but every single way that we can create safety, we can create community, we can create invitational opportunities, really gets people into the life of the church holistically. 198 00:20:00,96.4860992 --> 00:20:02,856.4860992 And then then finding that balance between. 199 00:20:03,441.4860992 --> 00:20:17,121.4860992 How do we have our eyes on the person that's brand new in the room? And how do we have our eyes on the person that has been in the room for 20 years and fe and and and do our best to feed them both in a way that's, that's formative and important. 200 00:20:17,121.4860992 --> 00:20:24,4.9410436 And so shaping some of the ways we do weekend services, shaping the way that we have different, kinds of small groups. 201 00:20:24,4.9410436 --> 00:20:35,374.9410436 We have everything from a pickleball group that their kind of community time is like debriefing at the end when they're tired and praying together all the way to rooted groups that are great for kind of people at every level. 202 00:20:35,374.9410436 --> 00:20:37,354.9410436 'cause it's experiential discipleship. 203 00:20:37,504.9410436 --> 00:20:38,344.9410436 And then. 204 00:20:38,434.9410436 --> 00:20:45,184.9410436 Bible cities that just go, like, they go deep and they go hard because they've been together a long time and that's what's formative for them. 205 00:20:45,184.9410436 --> 00:20:55,324.9410436 So that freedom of allowing people to enter where they are, but also training and equipping our people, that every single step of the way is something you can invite people to. 206 00:20:55,594.9410436 --> 00:20:55,894.9410436 You. 207 00:20:55,954.9410436 --> 00:21:02,164.9410436 You find somebody that loves kids and you're like, Hey, you don't, you are looking for community. 208 00:21:02,164.9410436 --> 00:21:05,284.9410436 I actually serve at a church and I serve in our kids' ministry. 209 00:21:05,284.9410436 --> 00:21:11,104.9410436 Would you wanna come hang out and serve alongside our, with me at our kids' ministry? And that might be their first invite to church. 210 00:21:11,104.9410436 --> 00:21:24,763.902807 I had that happen a couple weeks ago where a mom was like, my daughter's friend loves kids, but she's just not in a place where she feels safe, coming to a church ministry, but Could she serve with your kids? And I was like, yes, please invite her. 211 00:21:24,943.902807 --> 00:21:27,43.902807 And same thing with the group, same thing with weekends. 212 00:21:28,78.902807 --> 00:21:34,690.4786678 Small and you we're trying to figure out what it looks like for a church of this size to do, invitational opportunities. 213 00:21:34,690.4786678 --> 00:21:42,790.4786678 And that's kind of the journey that we're on now of like, what does it look like for Willow now to be, uh, this invitational church that also allows for that depth. 214 00:21:42,790.4786678 --> 00:21:47,700.4786678 And so we're still kind of working out what that looks like, but it's, it's a lot more intentional. 215 00:21:47,700.4786678 --> 00:21:50,430.4786678 And it's not, it's not everything for everything everyone. 216 00:21:50,610.4786678 --> 00:22:07,913.7498087 It's, this is what we do, these are the ways we're gonna focus our energy weekends teams and uh, groups and really invite people into those formative discipleship moments, Could you unpack for us just those three different elements? So you mentioned weekends, you mentioned teams, and you mentioned groups. 217 00:22:08,513.7498087 --> 00:22:25,973.6454157 How does that play into that whole discipleship paradigm? I think weekends is, uh, the one that most people are familiar with because it's, it's that Sunday experience and it's having eyes on how is it invitational? How do we create safety and space for the person that this is their first Sunday even. 218 00:22:25,973.6454157 --> 00:22:30,176.9787491 We recently had a weekend that was, it was our senior pastor transition. 219 00:22:30,176.9787491 --> 00:22:32,958.5693934 We actually just, have a new senior pastor at Willow Creek. 220 00:22:33,146.0795761 --> 00:22:37,166.0795761 and the transition has been incredibly healthy and so beautiful. 221 00:22:37,346.0795761 --> 00:22:44,216.0795761 But the weekend when we announced it we're like, there's gonna be people that this is there for Sunday and this is a very weird day to show up. 222 00:22:44,366.0795761 --> 00:22:55,786.0795761 So how do we have eyes on those people and create moments that feel invitational and invite them into what's happening? And then also for people that have been around Willow for a long time, when we have things that are. 223 00:22:56,416.0795761 --> 00:23:04,246.0795761 Kind of the, the people that just drop in like Christmas and Easter and you know, those people that just will come because it's, they that's like when they're supposed to come to church. 224 00:23:04,246.0795761 --> 00:23:18,886.0795761 Right? Making moments for both those visitors and, uh, the people that call Willow Homes so that they can feel fed and seen with the understanding that corporate worship is a massively biblical principle that matters a lot to God. 225 00:23:18,946.0795761 --> 00:23:25,306.0795761 I mean, there are, there, it's sprinkled throughout the entire book of acts of like, they were gathered and they worshiped and they prayed. 226 00:23:25,396.0795761 --> 00:23:26,956.0795761 And so we take that really seriously. 227 00:23:27,16.0795761 --> 00:23:31,846.0795761 And so weekends is, uh, an evolution of figuring out how to do both. 228 00:23:31,908.1200955 --> 00:23:36,408.1200955 and there's brilliant people on those teams that could give you a lot more insight on that. 229 00:23:36,820.9153065 --> 00:23:42,374.7582223 but that's something we hold really seriously quality biblical teaching with, with approachability at all levels. 230 00:23:42,934.7582223 --> 00:23:46,384.7582223 groups, obviously that's the, the bread and butter of what I do. 231 00:23:46,384.7582223 --> 00:23:51,934.7582223 And it's re it's based in the belief that we are wired for community. 232 00:23:52,84.7582223 --> 00:23:52,689.7582223 We are in like. 233 00:23:53,254.7582223 --> 00:24:17,244.7582223 Community is woven into our bodies and our stories and our creation because we worship a communal God, right? And so the ways that we can reflect that by sharing stories, by creating intentional spaces are we have a really intentional process for developing our group leaders because we want to make sure that there are anchored into spiritual formation, coached towards leading people towards next steps. 234 00:24:17,244.7582223 --> 00:24:25,358.1205684 That journey with Jesus of becoming, um, living out that Jesus expression, through their next steps, through their particularities, holistically engaged in life of the church. 235 00:24:25,358.1205684 --> 00:24:43,75.3394419 Our co our leaders are coached to identify and equip and empower and have, what we call I see in you conversations, which is, um, if you're familiar with the book Hero Maker, it's just the acronym they use, but it's basically like, I see this in you and I want you to live this out and, and how can I help you on that journey? And so it's, it's that. 236 00:24:43,735.3394419 --> 00:24:52,405.3394419 That is a hugely formative part because we grow in community, we feel safe and seen in community, and especially a church the size of Willow. 237 00:24:52,734.0531034 --> 00:25:03,68.5802732 you have to have your smaller, you have to have your village inside of your big circle of, your church, right? And then teams are the people that you serve alongside. 238 00:25:03,68.5802732 --> 00:25:34,598.5802732 Like who are the people that are, I'm linking arms with to do something in the church, whether it's all of our student ministry, small group leaders, whether it's our Willow kids volunteers, our guest experience team that, um, you know, does all of our first impressions on Sundays, our care center teams and do, how well do you know those people? How are you being formed by those people? Not just like, I'm standing next to you and we're doing the same thing, but actually figuring out ways to create connected community on that team and invite people to join those teams because again. 239 00:25:35,273.5802732 --> 00:25:45,773.5802732 The easiest way to get anybody to do anything is to personally invite them, whether it's church, whether it's come work at my work, whether it's go to this concert with me, of this person you've never heard. 240 00:25:46,193.5802732 --> 00:25:47,873.5802732 People will go to stuff if they are invited. 241 00:25:48,116.9136065 --> 00:25:53,846.9136065 and they're less likely to just jump in unless they're like, this is my holy discontent. 242 00:25:53,846.9136065 --> 00:25:55,106.9136065 I was gonna do this anyway. 243 00:25:55,406.9136065 --> 00:25:56,876.9136065 That's actually like an outlier. 244 00:25:56,906.9136065 --> 00:25:59,246.9136065 Most people are like, I never saw myself doing that. 245 00:25:59,246.9136065 --> 00:26:05,786.9136065 But actually now that you say it, I would go or I would try it or like, thank you for seeing that at me and, and inviting them into it. 246 00:26:05,786.9136065 --> 00:26:12,266.9136065 So weekend scoops and teams do like the, the, the kinda three pronged strategy that we use to, to lead out on all those things. 247 00:26:12,423.7890591 --> 00:26:14,13.7890591 Thanks so much for just sharing that. 248 00:26:14,13.7890591 --> 00:26:23,403.7890591 I think it, you know, like I realize it's a lot and you actually did a really great job at just Dusing, I, I'm sure is a very complicated system within your church. 249 00:26:23,760.7497226 --> 00:26:51,596.6622104 you know, 'cause we have churches of many sizes that listen to this podcast and as you were speaking, you know, I was just, I was thinking, what about the pastor who leads a medium sized church? Or what about the leader who's leading a small, a small group of people, how do these principles potentially apply to them or what could they learn from, from Willow in terms of all the learnings you guys have done? And I dunno if you have a gut response to that question, I'd, love to hear what you have to say about that. 250 00:26:51,958.1200912 --> 00:26:59,984.7867579 this is gonna sound like I'm speaking outta both sides of my mouth, but, but one is, don't assume that, every expression has to look the same. 251 00:27:00,254.7867579 --> 00:27:06,858.6869846 I think the most the thing that we do is we try to emulate what other people are doing without taking around context into the situation. 252 00:27:07,188.6869846 --> 00:27:16,728.6869846 And I think that's actually something that small churches and local churches do really well, that larger churches struggle with because when you get to this scale, you have to kind of systematize things. 253 00:27:17,39.0701961 --> 00:27:27,419.0701961 and so local churches actually have the opportunity to go, how do I take the vibe of that or the vision of that, or the, the, the strategy of that and actually make it work in my context. 254 00:27:27,642.9010415 --> 00:27:40,212.9010415 and so there's, there's that of like, don't be afraid to make it your own because you, the, the local pastor knows their people better than anyone, and the small group leaders and the volunteers of those churches know their people better than anyone. 255 00:27:40,947.9010415 --> 00:27:51,447.9010415 The other thing I'd say is you can, if, if you train your people to invite and to like empower people, you can do that. 256 00:27:51,447.9010415 --> 00:27:53,667.9010415 for any, whatever your expression is. 257 00:27:53,667.9010415 --> 00:27:58,317.9010415 And so you, it's, it's is easy as saying, Hey, just invite somebody along. 258 00:27:58,377.9010415 --> 00:28:12,147.9010415 Why don't you, you know, who, who are you seeing? Who are you praying for? Who's that one person that you know that could use community or you think might enjoy doing this with you? And so part of it is that front end, that inviting, inviting intentionality. 259 00:28:12,447.9010415 --> 00:28:19,917.9010415 And when they're in it, just teach your people to give away ministry as much as possible. 260 00:28:19,977.9010415 --> 00:28:24,147.9010415 The more you give away ministry, the more people, more owners you have in your community. 261 00:28:24,147.9010415 --> 00:28:25,857.9010415 The more people that feel empowered. 262 00:28:26,187.9010415 --> 00:28:28,287.9010415 Don't say, don't say they're no for them. 263 00:28:28,527.9010415 --> 00:28:29,847.9010415 Just say, I see this in you. 264 00:28:29,847.9010415 --> 00:28:31,197.9010415 I would love to share this with you. 265 00:28:31,722.9010415 --> 00:28:41,352.9010415 There's no way that I could individually pastor the number of people that actually fall under my purview because of the size of our campus and the number of groups that I kind of oversee as a pastor. 266 00:28:41,832.9010415 --> 00:29:00,12.9010415 But the people that are really shepherding those people, the people that are sending new leaders to be trained, the people that are sending people out into our other ministries to serve the people that are inviting their friends into community and then saying, this is, this is how you're contributing to this community, or how you could contribute this to this community. 267 00:29:00,162.9010415 --> 00:29:06,192.9010415 And just teaching people like that is the most Jesus like thing to do is to say, I see this. 268 00:29:06,402.9010415 --> 00:29:13,482.9010415 I see you, and this is how I wanna empower you to go out and be a part of our church, our group, or the big church. 269 00:29:13,572.9010415 --> 00:29:15,582.9010415 And I think you can do that at any scale. 270 00:29:15,642.9010415 --> 00:29:22,92.9010415 And it's really just teaching people how do you have eyes on the people that are part of your discipleship circle, whether it's. 271 00:29:22,527.9010415 --> 00:29:40,407.9010415 10 people in your small group, whether it's the 50 people that are part of your small community church or whether it's, you know, you're an area area pastor that has a whole region, how do you, how do you empower the people and see what's happening in their lives and say, I see this in you and this is how I wanna empower you. 272 00:29:40,467.9010415 --> 00:29:41,337.9010415 Go and take it. 273 00:29:41,337.9010415 --> 00:29:55,527.9010415 Like, the more I can offboard my ministry not to keep myself from having work to do, there will always be more work to do, but to allow other people to do load bearing things that they're gifted to do. 274 00:29:55,797.9010415 --> 00:30:00,897.9010415 It actually increases my trust and it increases the way I've seen God show up in, in my own ministry work. 275 00:30:00,927.9010415 --> 00:30:08,847.9010415 And it like to see people come alive in their gifting and their power in the church is the most glorious thing. 276 00:30:08,937.9010415 --> 00:30:12,357.9010415 Like, watching someone just go, I never knew this. 277 00:30:12,542.9010415 --> 00:30:14,277.9010415 And, and you can do that at any scale. 278 00:30:14,457.9010415 --> 00:30:15,297.9010415 It's really it. 279 00:30:15,297.9010415 --> 00:30:17,217.9010415 It doesn't have to be big or small. 280 00:30:17,547.9010415 --> 00:30:20,997.9010415 It's about just training your people, invite them in and then. 281 00:30:21,387.9010415 --> 00:30:25,77.9010415 Empower them, call out what you see and have eyes on your people. 282 00:30:25,676.3387678 --> 00:30:35,33.0054344 as you were talking, I was just reminded of an interview that I, I did with Rick Hill, and I'm not sure where it's gonna land in terms of which interview comes first in terms of the pipeline. 283 00:30:35,33.0054344 --> 00:30:39,543.0054344 But when I was speaking to Rick, he is an Irish, Presbyterian, minister. 284 00:30:40,23.0054344 --> 00:30:46,933.0054344 And he was speaking about, Seeing discipleship in terms of the five, like five invites that Jesus made to his disciples. 285 00:30:46,933.0054344 --> 00:30:49,363.0054344 And it was first, and, and you've been speaking about these. 286 00:30:49,573.0054344 --> 00:30:54,463.0054344 The first invite he gave to the disciples in John one was come and see, come see where I'm going. 287 00:30:54,883.0054344 --> 00:30:59,23.0054344 He then said, come follow me, which is, you know, come, come deeper into my circle. 288 00:30:59,293.0054344 --> 00:31:00,373.0054344 Come be one of my 12. 289 00:31:00,373.0054344 --> 00:31:02,713.0054344 So you're talking about small group kind of environment here. 290 00:31:03,73.0054344 --> 00:31:04,63.0054344 Then he sent them out. 291 00:31:04,63.0054344 --> 00:31:05,563.0054344 He said, come, let's go serve. 292 00:31:05,623.0054344 --> 00:31:07,123.0054344 Let's go out into the communities. 293 00:31:07,123.0054344 --> 00:31:08,293.0054344 Let's go make a difference. 294 00:31:08,713.0054344 --> 00:31:14,263.0054344 And, and so he kind of, he, he systematically began to, to invite them deeper. 295 00:31:14,773.0054344 --> 00:31:17,473.0054344 Into his mission and into the calling. 296 00:31:17,473.0054344 --> 00:31:19,663.0054344 And, and in that process they became more like him. 297 00:31:20,53.0054344 --> 00:31:30,63.0054344 And, what I'm picking up from you is that regardless of whether you're a Presbyterian church in Ireland, you're a tiny cell group in India. 298 00:31:30,243.0054344 --> 00:31:38,463.0054344 Whether you're a church in Pretoria, like my own or a Willow Creek, those invites and the, those principles can be played out in, in many different contexts. 299 00:31:38,463.0054344 --> 00:31:48,483.0054344 And I, I love what you said about what is your context, and we don't need to copy like models, like we need to take the principles and apply them. 300 00:31:49,23.0054344 --> 00:31:50,883.0054344 We can learn from each other across the world. 301 00:31:51,319.6721011 --> 00:31:57,709.6721011 so I would love to, to dig a bit deeper into how you structure your, your small groups at Willow. 302 00:31:58,57.263332 --> 00:32:00,427.263332 what we could learn from the lessons you have learned. 303 00:32:00,707.263332 --> 00:32:07,897.263332 So can you walk us through how your groups are structured? I know there's a couple of things, but I want to give you opportunity just to, to share that with, with our. 304 00:32:08,386.3256057 --> 00:32:13,126.3256057 Yeah, so the current small group structure at Willow is actually relatively new. 305 00:32:13,126.3256057 --> 00:32:20,56.3256057 It's only in the last couple years that we've moved away from, we, there's been a lot, like Willow has been always been a church of small groups. 306 00:32:20,56.3256057 --> 00:32:22,336.3256057 So we've always been like, this is what groups are at Willow now. 307 00:32:22,366.3256057 --> 00:32:23,566.3256057 This is what groups are at Willow now. 308 00:32:23,566.3256057 --> 00:32:40,276.3256057 And so we're constantly evolving that to try to make it, to balance both that seeker and deeper and also without, without losing sight of how do we make sure these communities are spiritually formative? Because you can have a pickleball group that just plays pickleball and goes. 309 00:32:40,636.3256057 --> 00:32:49,996.3256057 Off and, and great, they're like coming to church and they feel safe, but like, are they growing closer to Jesus? And the same could be said for a Bible study that just reads a book and then goes home. 310 00:32:50,326.3256057 --> 00:32:58,126.3256057 But, uh, we've tried to create ways that, that, like anchor points that allow our communities, regardless of their expression, be spiritually formative. 311 00:32:58,246.3256057 --> 00:33:02,206.3256057 And so every small group leader is required to go through rooted. 312 00:33:02,281.3256057 --> 00:33:04,21.3256057 Before they can lead a small group. 313 00:33:04,291.3256057 --> 00:33:14,551.3256057 And every group that meets the expectation is that they practice at least one of the seven rooted rhythms as part of their community each time they gather. 314 00:33:14,551.3256057 --> 00:33:24,901.3256057 So it could be the same rhythm, it can be a different rhythm, and there's creative license to go, what does it look like for me to, to practice this rhythm in this community context. 315 00:33:24,901.3256057 --> 00:33:29,551.3256057 We even like play with context here in inside the, the cells of our small groups. 316 00:33:29,861.3256057 --> 00:33:32,951.3256057 so rooted as the foundation of, uh, of what we do. 317 00:33:32,951.3256057 --> 00:33:36,293.770883 We actually even, last year had a couple weekends that we like. 318 00:33:36,293.770883 --> 00:33:40,623.770883 We're gonna dig into this rooted rhythm on a weekend, as additional kind of. 319 00:33:41,92.1042164 --> 00:33:44,902.1042164 Supplemental and also encouragement and just a reminder of like these rhythms matter. 320 00:33:45,188.761503 --> 00:33:47,978.761503 and the rooted rhythms aren't new things. 321 00:33:47,978.761503 --> 00:33:50,648.761503 They're the things that the church has been doing forever. 322 00:33:50,678.761503 --> 00:33:54,188.761503 Corporate worship, prayer, generosity, breaking strongholds, things like that. 323 00:33:54,218.761503 --> 00:33:58,898.761503 And so the Rooted experience is a catalyst for formation. 324 00:33:58,898.761503 --> 00:34:04,685.4281697 We usually tell people, if you've not been enrooted, if you're new to Willow, if you haven't been in a group, start with Rooted. 325 00:34:04,805.4281697 --> 00:34:08,735.4281697 'cause it's almost always those groups are new and they don't know each other. 326 00:34:08,735.4281697 --> 00:34:10,115.4281697 And so it's a really safe place. 327 00:34:10,374.4049224 --> 00:34:12,924.4049224 and they go deep really quick and they're anchored. 328 00:34:12,924.4049224 --> 00:34:23,227.5881283 And it's structured in such a way that you walk through these rhythms, in both an experiential way and a way that helps you mentally understand it and actually embody it, through the course of those 10 weeks. 329 00:34:23,317.5881283 --> 00:34:32,77.5881283 And then once a leader has been through Rooted, they can then lead whatever small group, whatever kind of small group that they feel called to lead, whether it's a group. 330 00:34:32,107.5881283 --> 00:34:33,757.5881283 I have groups for moms with teens. 331 00:34:33,757.5881283 --> 00:34:36,697.5881283 We have retired communities, we have serving teams. 332 00:34:36,697.5881283 --> 00:34:37,207.5881283 We have. 333 00:34:38,132.3364577 --> 00:34:43,982.3364577 group that meets at, at a different coffee shop every week, and they just talk about their lives and they pray together. 334 00:34:44,212.3364577 --> 00:34:52,282.3364577 Right now we're doing an all church, like most of our groups are doing kind of what we're calling like an all church study, uh, where a ton of groups all doing the same thing. 335 00:34:52,282.3364577 --> 00:34:59,212.3364577 But this is actually a really rare season because usually our, our groups leaders have a lot, like there's, there's a ton more variety. 336 00:34:59,827.3364577 --> 00:35:02,347.3364577 We structure them in 10 week terms. 337 00:35:02,407.3364577 --> 00:35:06,607.3364577 And so a, a group can continue term to term to term. 338 00:35:06,607.3364577 --> 00:35:10,777.3364577 They don't have to end and not continue in the future. 339 00:35:10,957.3364577 --> 00:35:18,748.5556129 But we create these 10 week terms to where, three times a year we'll have a, a window where people, we have our, like, it's called a groups directory. 340 00:35:18,838.5556129 --> 00:35:22,498.5556129 And we really push people like, Hey, right now is the time to sign up and join a group. 341 00:35:22,588.5556129 --> 00:35:28,528.5556129 And then at the end of those 10 weeks, we have coached our leaders to end well for the season. 342 00:35:28,618.5556129 --> 00:35:40,768.5556129 Whether it's like, this group is only gonna go 10 weeks and then we'll do something totally different, or the leader might not lead, or we might multiply into other groups, but, uh, for 10 weeks they'll like dig in and meet together every week. 343 00:35:40,798.5556129 --> 00:35:42,838.5556129 'cause consistency is so vital. 344 00:35:42,838.5556129 --> 00:35:48,778.5556129 And every week is just the, the rhythm that works for consistency in community. 345 00:35:48,778.5556129 --> 00:35:52,408.5556129 Because if you'll meet every other week and you miss one, you haven't seen those people in a month. 346 00:35:52,738.5556129 --> 00:35:55,648.5556129 So the, the every week term and then. 347 00:35:56,278.5556129 --> 00:36:07,738.5556129 At the end of the 10 weeks, every leader is coached to, Hey, what are the next steps for people in your group? And we actually like ask them to share those with us as pastors so that I can do strategic invitations, follow ups. 348 00:36:07,738.5556129 --> 00:36:08,998.5556129 Like, Hey, you mentioned baptism. 349 00:36:08,998.5556129 --> 00:36:13,738.5556129 Hey, you're interested in leading? Hey you, they mentioned serving, or you wanna just continue in this group? That's great. 350 00:36:13,738.5556129 --> 00:36:15,328.5556129 Like let's continue in that community. 351 00:36:15,628.5556129 --> 00:36:21,778.5556129 And so those, that term system is designed to create easy on-ramps and off-ramps for people. 352 00:36:22,108.5556129 --> 00:36:31,468.5556129 Partially because, especially if you're new to groups, like if you've been in a church for 20 years and you're like, yeah, a small group, you just joined it and it's not weird and like you just do it. 353 00:36:31,528.5556129 --> 00:36:33,298.5556129 You know? We work together for two years, it's great. 354 00:36:33,778.5556129 --> 00:36:34,798.5556129 But if you're new. 355 00:36:35,743.5556129 --> 00:36:39,883.5556129 And in our current culture, everyone is super transient. 356 00:36:40,63.5556129 --> 00:36:43,333.5556129 People have short attention spans and everyone is insanely busy. 357 00:36:43,603.5556129 --> 00:36:55,783.5556129 Talk to an average American like parent right now, and it's like, I've got this and this and this and this and this and this, and they're like, I can't do something every week for the rest of my life, but can I commit to 10 weeks? Yes. 358 00:36:55,843.5556129 --> 00:37:00,343.5556129 And so they, well, it's easy on-ramps and off-ramps, so it's that invitational opportunity. 359 00:37:00,703.5556129 --> 00:37:21,363.5556129 But then it also allows for the empowerment of multiplication because if you, if your group has a natural kind of denu march where it's gonna like end, and then even if your group is gonna continue into the next term, there is this pause to where if your, say your group swells, like I have a group right now of my one in part of my young adults, groups that has 25 people in it. 360 00:37:21,363.5556129 --> 00:37:25,113.5556129 And I said, this is the term, this is how we're gonna move towards multiplication. 361 00:37:25,113.5556129 --> 00:37:31,863.5556129 And so we actually created a strategic timeline of how they're going to invite their group to have a vision for multiplication. 362 00:37:32,253.5556129 --> 00:37:40,383.5556129 And without that kind of term pause, it would feel a lot like, it would feel a lot more whip lashy, but it's like, Hey, we're gonna stay this term together. 363 00:37:40,383.5556129 --> 00:37:46,933.5556129 And then when we start next term, we're actually gonna multiply into three groups So that we can have more space to invite people because it's got a. 364 00:37:47,328.5556129 --> 00:37:48,828.5556129 Three co-leaders in it. 365 00:37:48,978.5556129 --> 00:37:53,538.5556129 And so it, it allows for kind of all of that stuff that people buck against. 366 00:37:53,768.5556129 --> 00:37:55,688.5556129 And I can't, I can't stay in it forever. 367 00:37:55,688.5556129 --> 00:37:57,158.5556129 I, I we're afraid to multiply. 368 00:37:57,158.5556129 --> 00:38:03,368.5556129 It allows for that, that sort of rhythm and flow to be, um, more invitational safer, feel more natural. 369 00:38:03,614.8810517 --> 00:38:08,714.8810517 it's not without, its without its flaws, but it's, it, it seems to be doing what we want it to do. 370 00:38:09,138.1195053 --> 00:38:13,968.1195053 our groups have grown, I think it's more than 50% over the last year. 371 00:38:14,598.1195053 --> 00:38:28,239.0572316 So because of just this rhythms, people are catching a vision for, and it seems to be working, so, uh, there's a lot that we can unpack here, I think, especially for those who, who run groups, whether it's in their ministries or whether it's at, at their church. 372 00:38:28,629.0572316 --> 00:38:37,698.4495218 But I, I wanna dig deeper into the Rooted program and experience because, I heard that, rooted actually comes out of Kenya. 373 00:38:38,148.4495218 --> 00:38:43,710.4756533 And, and what I love about that is that, the American Church is learning from the African Church. 374 00:38:44,130.4756533 --> 00:39:00,150.4756533 And so please, can you tell us more about Rooted and why Willow has adopted the Rooted model and what it means? And, I'm suspecting that not many people have heard of it, so I want to give air time for Rut so that we can, learn from it and maybe explore it. 375 00:39:00,516.933534 --> 00:39:02,916.933534 I will Champion Rooted all day. 376 00:39:03,266.933534 --> 00:39:04,856.933534 So you hit a couple pieces there. 377 00:39:05,120.2026335 --> 00:39:22,988.698249 the first one being it came out of the African Church, and so it, what I love about Rooted is that it talks about things that the Western Church hasn't historically done super well, in a unified way, especially, and particularly the person of the Holy Spirit. 378 00:39:23,268.698249 --> 00:39:30,168.698249 There is, when I, at the, my last church was also Rooted Church, and so when I first got introduced to this, I. 379 00:39:30,930.3649157 --> 00:39:50,640.3649157 maybe of the anomaly in Western culture where the, the, the person of the Trinity that I most understand and can connect with is the Holy Spirit, which is maybe says more about my personality than, than I think, but, but historically the Holy Spirit hasn't been kind of it, the front, it's like Jesus, the, the fodder in the, the Father and the Son. 380 00:39:50,640.3649157 --> 00:39:54,960.3649157 And then it's like, and there's also the Holy Spirit, but like that one we don't totally understand. 381 00:39:54,960.3649157 --> 00:40:01,830.3649157 So, you know, but the African church like that, that's, that is the front runner in a lot of ways. 382 00:40:01,830.3649157 --> 00:40:09,930.3649157 Not to downplay the father or the son 'cause they're all, um, important parts of the story, but they just embrace the Holy Spirit in a way that's different. 383 00:40:10,394.6247565 --> 00:40:14,894.6247565 and so that part of it especially is really profound. 384 00:40:15,584.6247565 --> 00:40:28,342.9580898 And then also, Americans in particular, I can't speak for any other cultures, but Americans are very private, which sounds weird because we live our lives on the internet, but we live a version of our lives on the internet. 385 00:40:28,582.9580898 --> 00:40:30,682.9580898 We don't live our actual lives on the internet. 386 00:40:30,982.9580898 --> 00:40:46,132.9580898 And so who is seeing our actual life? Who is seeing our real story? Who are we safe to share and invite into the gritty and the gross and the messy and the, the uncertainty and the question. 387 00:40:46,312.9580898 --> 00:40:51,12.9580898 And so rooted is based, and I think this is, comes from that African influence. 388 00:40:51,12.9580898 --> 00:40:55,152.9580898 It is based in storytelling because it came out of a storytelling culture. 389 00:40:55,242.9580898 --> 00:41:06,942.9580898 And so the way it infuses story into the, the devotions, the way it infuses story into the, their stories from the global church, but also telling your story. 390 00:41:07,347.9580898 --> 00:41:13,287.9580898 Your story of how God has shown up for you, where you have struggled, where you have been broken and healed. 391 00:41:13,610.4789196 --> 00:41:19,730.4789196 there is something powerful when we intentionally create space to share stories safely. 392 00:41:20,237.1455862 --> 00:41:25,607.1455862 in, in my circles that I've been around and in, there's not a lot of places where that's actually a thing. 393 00:41:25,607.1455862 --> 00:41:28,637.1455862 I know people that have said, I've never actually told my story to anybody. 394 00:41:28,637.1455862 --> 00:41:35,567.1455862 And I'm like, there'll be, there'll be people in their forties and they're trying rooted for the first time and they're like, I've never shared my real story with anybody. 395 00:41:35,987.1455862 --> 00:41:49,42.1238673 And because of the safety and the intentionality and just the natural, organic way it's woven into it, I think that's the catalyst for that being seen and known that we don't have an easy avenue for. 396 00:41:49,132.1238673 --> 00:41:52,882.1238673 And I think it really comes from It coming out of a context that's not our own. 397 00:41:53,211.3949269 --> 00:41:54,921.3949269 So tell me more about the principles. 398 00:41:54,921.3949269 --> 00:41:57,141.3949269 So you mentioned the different pillars of Rooted. 399 00:41:57,741.3949269 --> 00:42:01,467.8528077 Can you, can you name them for me? Can you, do you know them off by heart? I should. 400 00:42:01,467.8528077 --> 00:42:02,967.8528077 And so, pop quiz. 401 00:42:02,997.8528077 --> 00:42:03,297.8528077 All right. 402 00:42:03,537.8528077 --> 00:42:05,757.8528077 It is sharing your story. 403 00:42:06,355.4652333 --> 00:42:12,775.4652333 worship, serving, sacrificial generosity, the breaking of strongholds prayer. 404 00:42:13,735.4652333 --> 00:42:19,652.3406859 Oh, I'm gonna, I, I always miss one and people that do rooted or yelling at me, no worries. 405 00:42:20,258.7985667 --> 00:42:23,888.7985667 I'll, I'll think of it and I'll be like, oh, I'm I'll, I'll miss it. 406 00:42:24,92.3406859 --> 00:42:24,392.3406859 notes. 407 00:42:24,392.3406859 --> 00:42:24,962.3406859 We'll find it. 408 00:42:25,52.3406859 --> 00:42:25,412.3406859 Yeah. 409 00:42:25,562.3406859 --> 00:42:42,790.1720626 So I think the, the thing that I find so interesting about this is that you, one, make all of your small group leaders do this course first, and then you're incorporating it into the rhythms of any group, whether it's, an attractional group of like, let's play pickleball together and pray and read some scripture together at the end of it. 410 00:42:42,790.1720626 --> 00:42:48,310.1720626 Or if it's like intense bible study, they're diving into theology and doing biblical studies together. 411 00:42:48,719.2164357 --> 00:42:51,179.2164357 you're calling people to each of these practices. 412 00:42:51,551.514705 --> 00:42:54,381.9223474 can you maybe explain a little bit more about that? Yeah. 413 00:42:54,381.9223474 --> 00:42:56,601.9223474 And the one I missed is daily devotion, which is bonkers. 414 00:42:56,601.9223474 --> 00:42:57,621.9223474 'cause like that's the whole thing. 415 00:42:57,621.9223474 --> 00:42:57,831.9223474 Right. 416 00:42:58,281.9223474 --> 00:43:12,180.4644666 Um, and so what does it look like to dig into those, like enrooted or in practice? Outside in their small groups or both? so outside in their small groups, so now that they've done rooted, they're now going into their small group environments, how does that. 417 00:43:12,180.4644666 --> 00:43:13,41.9223474 play out Yeah. 418 00:43:13,41.9223474 --> 00:43:16,210.8266376 So, it really depends on the group. 419 00:43:16,480.8266376 --> 00:43:22,310.8266376 because this felt like a sticking point for some of our small group leaders to, have a creative imagination. 420 00:43:22,370.8266376 --> 00:43:34,495.5303764 I love when we can invite people into their spiritual connection to God, whether it's, formative experiences, I love, um, like contemplative spiritual practices and creating unique spaces for that. 421 00:43:34,813.0033876 --> 00:43:44,653.0033876 because it, people, we don't often give people the freedom to imagine, because we've always been trained, this is what prayer looks like, and this is what generosity looks like. 422 00:43:44,658.0033876 --> 00:43:48,193.0033876 And, and this is what it looks like to be in this, to do these things. 423 00:43:48,416.6525953 --> 00:43:55,406.6525953 and not to diminish the, the way it's taught at church, you can't really teach 5,000 people unique expressions of prayer. 424 00:43:55,586.6525953 --> 00:43:57,26.6525953 You have to give them a structure. 425 00:43:57,338.3358593 --> 00:43:59,648.3358593 but we, I think the piece we miss sometimes is like. 426 00:44:00,143.3358593 --> 00:44:02,603.3358593 And then explore what it looks like for you. 427 00:44:02,963.3358593 --> 00:44:16,313.3358593 And so at our last small group leader training, not this past one, but the, the one we did over the summer, I actually played a game because I'm, I think I said it this at the beginning, I'm an agent of chaos, and so the more unhinged way I can do something, the more fun it is for me. 428 00:44:16,913.3358593 --> 00:44:20,303.3358593 But I played, uh, it, I like based it off of a. 429 00:44:20,978.3358593 --> 00:44:28,448.3358593 Like an improv game and said, okay, I want you to come up with the craziest idea for a small group thing. 430 00:44:28,448.3358593 --> 00:44:31,994.5486463 Like think, think like, Owl pellet collecting. 431 00:44:31,994.5486463 --> 00:44:38,834.5486463 And people were like the, you know, the live action role players, or I mean a Barbie collectors, like just unhinged things. 432 00:44:38,834.5486463 --> 00:44:46,484.5486463 We even have groups that, there's a group at Willow right now that is a small engine repair group, and they meet in a guy's garage and fix lawnmowers and stuff like that. 433 00:44:46,754.5486463 --> 00:44:52,4.5486463 so I said, come up with crazy versions of groups and then we're gonna match them to a rooted rhythm. 434 00:44:52,34.5486463 --> 00:44:56,714.5486463 Just draw it out of a hat and figure out what it looks like to practice this in that kind of group. 435 00:44:57,464.5486463 --> 00:45:01,304.5486463 And so that sounds crazy, and you're like, that's not gonna work. 436 00:45:01,514.5486463 --> 00:45:08,714.5486463 But it actually worked because, for example, that small engine repair group, it's a bunch of people that are just, they live close together. 437 00:45:08,714.5486463 --> 00:45:18,854.5486463 So they're in a neighborhood, they're in some person's garage working with their hands, getting involved in their, getting their bodies engaged in community and, and, and doing something that they love or interested in. 438 00:45:19,364.5486463 --> 00:45:22,94.5486463 But that's a perfect opportunity to share your story. 439 00:45:22,184.5486463 --> 00:45:25,514.5486463 You can tighten a screw and be talking about your life. 440 00:45:25,514.5486463 --> 00:45:36,644.5486463 That's a, it's a amazing opportunity to pray for your neighborhood, to, to invite people in your community and serve the people in your community because it's like, Hey, this guy over here. 441 00:45:36,904.5486463 --> 00:45:45,964.5486463 This per, maybe there's a vet in your neighborhood that like needs some sort of like disability inclusion included in their small engine. 442 00:45:45,964.5486463 --> 00:45:51,544.5486463 Well, is that a modification that this group could figure out how to do? There's different ways that you can serve in that. 443 00:45:51,754.5486463 --> 00:45:53,14.5486463 Same thing with pickleball. 444 00:45:53,164.5486463 --> 00:45:59,554.5486463 So the pickleball group, they get together and they play pickleball, but then you know, you can't play pickleball for two hours 'cause you get tired. 445 00:45:59,554.5486463 --> 00:46:09,783.1243688 And so then they sit and they sometimes read a book together or they do some kind of study and they just go, Hey, what's, what's the one thing you took out of this? And so they're practicing being in the word and then they pray together. 446 00:46:10,173.2937016 --> 00:46:22,679.9603683 there's that coffee group where they like, what is more natural than sharing your story and also inviting other people into community to share your story with them, or practice generosity at that coffee shop. 447 00:46:22,679.9603683 --> 00:46:23,999.9603683 Serve the community. 448 00:46:24,289.0212758 --> 00:46:26,899.0212758 pray for the people that walk in the door, pray for each other. 449 00:46:27,296.2817919 --> 00:46:34,676.2817919 and so it, and then all the way to a standard when what people are like, this is what a small group is like, a standard Bible study, small group. 450 00:46:35,126.2817919 --> 00:46:37,46.2817919 It doesn't have to look the same for everybody. 451 00:46:37,76.2817919 --> 00:46:44,556.2817919 Get unique with the way that you pray based on who's in your group and the kinds of prayer practices that, work in your community. 452 00:46:44,826.2817919 --> 00:46:54,479.7610836 Figure out what is the heart song that mission that your community has, and how can you be generous with that or serve with that or just invite that into, your impact in the world. 453 00:46:54,719.7610836 --> 00:46:55,859.7610836 And so it's not about. 454 00:46:56,609.7610836 --> 00:46:58,739.7610836 Doing any one thing one way. 455 00:46:58,769.7610836 --> 00:47:06,659.7610836 It's about understanding the foundation of all of them and going, well now let's, we, we've got our lane. 456 00:47:07,49.7610836 --> 00:47:11,519.7610836 Now let's take the rails off a little bit and feel free to explore in this space. 457 00:47:11,699.7610836 --> 00:47:24,449.7610836 And I think the more we can teach people to do that and encourage people to do that, the more organic those things will become because it's that unique particularity that then informs how it, how they connect with God through those things. 458 00:47:24,569.7610836 --> 00:47:28,689.7610836 And so just saying like, play, try it, figure it out. 459 00:47:28,949.5249353 --> 00:47:33,629.5249353 so it's an invitation to get just unique and allow people to, to play it on in their context. 460 00:47:33,836.4003878 --> 00:47:35,876.4003878 So I wanna ask a question. 461 00:47:36,176.4003878 --> 00:47:45,26.4003878 Earlier in the interview, you mentioned that, part of your vision as Willow Creek is to get everyone into a group and that see every group on mission. 462 00:47:45,356.4003878 --> 00:47:53,446.4003878 Can you explain that, that I, I dunno if it's a mantra or, or, or the vision of behind that, that idea of everyone in a group and every group on mission. 463 00:47:53,446.4003878 --> 00:48:00,419.5249353 How does that play out in reality? Yeah, I think this bucks up against, that, well, I'm in a group. 464 00:48:00,809.5249353 --> 00:48:08,529.5249353 Isn't that what I'm supposed to do? Right? Like, oh, come to our church, get in a group, and now what? Because we don't want people to get in groups just to be in a group. 465 00:48:08,619.5249353 --> 00:48:11,919.5249353 Like, yes, we want you to have community and want, we want you to be known. 466 00:48:12,239.5249353 --> 00:48:35,413.9446817 But how are you being formed and shaped and discipled inside your group? And how does the heart song of your group, that it, it's kind of that individual that we talked about of like, how are you being individually formed by your group, but also how is your group being formed as a community that then is somehow impacting the kingdom? And that could be again, like. 467 00:48:36,103.9446817 --> 00:48:37,963.9446817 I'm really passionate about. 468 00:48:37,993.9446817 --> 00:48:44,28.5800362 Uh, I was, I was formed and invited into ministry by, a community for young moms. 469 00:48:44,28.5800362 --> 00:48:47,88.5800362 So I care a lot about women in community. 470 00:48:47,268.5800362 --> 00:48:50,568.5800362 I care a lot about seeing moms in that early stage. 471 00:48:50,628.5800362 --> 00:49:00,575.0568213 And so your heart song could be, I just wanna create a safe place for moms that they can breathe for two hours where they can come and they don't have to have showered or slept or whatever. 472 00:49:01,85.0568213 --> 00:49:03,335.0568213 They can just show up and have a safe space. 473 00:49:03,395.0568213 --> 00:49:05,945.0568213 And so that could be the mission of the group. 474 00:49:06,5.0568213 --> 00:49:15,575.0568213 And so that, that mission is how, how do we see other moms? How do we create and multiply and create spaces for those other moms there? It could be your holy discontent is. 475 00:49:15,950.0568213 --> 00:49:18,320.0568213 Human trafficking or the incarcerated. 476 00:49:18,380.0568213 --> 00:49:18,680.0568213 Okay. 477 00:49:18,680.0568213 --> 00:49:29,607.35517 Well, how are you maybe praying specifically for that? Are you, engaging in our, with our, community partners in a certain way? As a, as a group, it's serving together. 478 00:49:29,947.35517 --> 00:49:33,997.35517 Whether it's once a term or whether it's every, every week. 479 00:49:34,27.35517 --> 00:49:38,414.70614 We have groups that serve every week and some groups that are just strategically praying in that way. 480 00:49:38,674.0664859 --> 00:49:41,494.0664859 you could say, I just really care about my neighborhood. 481 00:49:41,674.0664859 --> 00:49:54,4.0664859 Okay, well, how do we maybe start a neighborhood group or just invite people from your neighborhood into this community by always having an open space for them and being ready to, to receive new people in your community. 482 00:49:54,544.0664859 --> 00:49:56,404.0664859 And so it, it's, it's about. 483 00:49:56,749.0664859 --> 00:50:00,499.0664859 The unique vision of the people in the group. 484 00:50:00,499.0664859 --> 00:50:10,309.0664859 What, what are we really excited about? What are we really passionate about? And it doesn't have to be something massively profound, like, we're gonna end hunger by 2030. 485 00:50:10,309.0664859 --> 00:50:12,49.0664859 You know what I mean? It could be great. 486 00:50:12,49.0664859 --> 00:50:14,119.0664859 I'd love for for them to figure that out. 487 00:50:14,299.0664859 --> 00:50:29,179.0664859 But it could be something little, like, I just want people to know Jesus, and I want them to feel okay saying, I don't know who is this God really? And they like, okay, so, so you're a safe place for people that are in the middle of deconstruction. 488 00:50:29,179.0664859 --> 00:50:32,749.0664859 You're a safe place for people that are still kicking the tires on Jesus. 489 00:50:32,869.0664859 --> 00:50:33,379.0664859 Great. 490 00:50:33,814.0664859 --> 00:50:53,418.1640878 Um, and so it's really, what's the heart song of your group and how do you live that out, both uniquely and corporately? Yeah, and I really love that nuance because I think so often groups and churches, can become about the group and about the individ individual growing, and you, we've spoken a lot about how that's part of the vision. 491 00:50:53,798.2850212 --> 00:51:04,158.2850212 but as you were speaking, I was reminded of, uh, a book written by Robert Mulholland who speaks about discipleship, and he speaks about discipleship being that journey of, growing in Christ's likeness. 492 00:51:04,158.2850212 --> 00:51:10,368.2850212 But he has a nuance at the end of it, and he says, for the sake of others, because Christ was always for the sake of others. 493 00:51:10,398.2850212 --> 00:51:21,138.2850212 And so to have a group where you are being shaped into christlikeness for the sake of others, I think just adds such beauty and depth to the group's model within your church. 494 00:51:21,515.9655682 --> 00:51:22,415.9655682 so, so yeah. 495 00:51:22,415.9655682 --> 00:51:24,65.9655682 I mean, I, I really appreciate this. 496 00:51:24,192.6322349 --> 00:51:28,962.6322349 I wanna give you an opportunity just to share some resources, uh, for those who are listening. 497 00:51:28,962.6322349 --> 00:51:35,442.6322349 Maybe they're saying, Hey, I'm a part of, I'm leading small groups within my church, or, um, I'm a small group leader myself in my ministry. 498 00:51:35,442.6322349 --> 00:51:40,392.6322349 A lot of parachurch organizations have groups for discipleship and mentorship. 499 00:51:41,142.6322349 --> 00:51:46,68.7822117 What resources can you recommend as someone who's in the world? there's everything from right now, media. 500 00:51:46,68.7822117 --> 00:51:49,318.2909241 Are you familiar with right now? Media? so it's digital resource library. 501 00:51:49,318.2909241 --> 00:51:56,111.3521714 So if your, if your church is like, we can't afford to buy all of these things, which is normal because those are expensive to purchase. 502 00:51:56,398.0188381 --> 00:52:01,858.0188381 Right Now Media is a great subscription service, that you can get for all of your congregation or for your small group leaders. 503 00:52:01,858.0188381 --> 00:52:03,178.018838 There's different packages for that. 504 00:52:03,274.6855047 --> 00:52:05,404.6855047 and I don't work for them, so this isn't like an ad. 505 00:52:05,674.6855047 --> 00:52:08,344.6855047 Um, it's just something I've used and it's really great. 506 00:52:08,344.6855047 --> 00:52:09,334.6855047 I have great resources. 507 00:52:09,558.018838 --> 00:52:17,797.7725007 I'm a huge of the Bible project, because a lot of people know their videos, but, they have both, it's called Bible Project Classrooms. 508 00:52:17,797.7725007 --> 00:52:30,947.7725007 So if you have those individual people that are like, I really wanna dig in theologically, and feel equipped, but I don't have the money or the access to higher level education, that it's actually a free classroom where they, they do. 509 00:52:31,727.7725007 --> 00:52:35,444.4391673 Graduate level study on different books and, and themes and topics. 510 00:52:35,444.4391673 --> 00:52:38,114.4391673 And they also have a podcast that a lot of people don't know about. 511 00:52:38,234.4391673 --> 00:52:49,34.4391673 And so it, that, that five minute video, there'll be, there might be 10 or 20 episodes where they dig in and pull out all the themes and they actually use the content from the podcast to create their videos. 512 00:52:49,244.4391673 --> 00:52:57,569.4391673 So for all those bible nerds that are like, how do I get more resources? It's free and it's podcasts, and they also have all their videos and podcasts available online. 513 00:52:58,142.7725007 --> 00:53:17,642.7725007 I'd say as far as books go, there's like a zillion, right? I, I'm like even looking at my bookcase of how do I, what, what even books would I pull out? I think the two, the one that I'm thinking of top of mind is for if you wanna equip small group leaders that are still gaining confidence, the book, uh, how to Ask Great Questions by Karen Lee Thorpe. 514 00:53:17,882.7725007 --> 00:53:19,52.7725007 It's a little bitty guy. 515 00:53:19,310.2196812 --> 00:53:27,440.2196812 and the very first chapter is like the 10 rules of, or the, you know, the 10 foundational things for asking good questions. 516 00:53:27,830.2196812 --> 00:53:31,520.2196812 And I think it for small group leaders, they don't have to know everything. 517 00:53:31,550.2196812 --> 00:53:35,180.2196812 They need to be like a half a step ahead of ev of, of the people in their group. 518 00:53:35,180.2196812 --> 00:53:36,200.2196812 Discipleship wise. 519 00:53:36,230.2196812 --> 00:53:37,730.2196812 Maybe, maybe, maybe not. 520 00:53:37,730.2196812 --> 00:53:42,770.2196812 They could lead their peers, but if they learn how to listen and learn how to ask great questions. 521 00:53:43,590.2196812 --> 00:53:47,760.2196812 That group will learn together and will grow together and will create community. 522 00:53:47,910.2196812 --> 00:53:51,660.2196812 There's also, I think, I don't know if I mentioned this, but the Rooted Network is obviously great. 523 00:53:51,660.2196812 --> 00:53:52,830.2196812 Rooted network.com, 524 00:53:52,830.2196812 --> 00:53:56,550.2196812 I think is their, their website right now, they only have, uh, English and Spanish. 525 00:53:56,550.2196812 --> 00:53:58,770.2196812 But I would love to see that that expand too. 526 00:53:58,770.2196812 --> 00:54:06,90.2196812 So maybe if more people ask for the resources in other languages, I'm gonna get like an angry email from Mariners after this and be like, maybe you shouldn't have said that. 527 00:54:06,90.2196812 --> 00:54:07,350.2196812 But I think it would be great. 528 00:54:07,350.2196812 --> 00:54:09,900.2196812 We have people at our church that are asking for their heart language. 529 00:54:10,763.5530145 --> 00:54:15,473.5530145 oh gosh, I could go all, all day about stuff for spiritual formation. 530 00:54:15,879.2481654 --> 00:54:25,269.2481654 I think those people that have been in the weeds in ministry for a long time sometimes could use something that gives language to that wrestling and that, that the hardness. 531 00:54:25,495.1408516 --> 00:54:36,715.1408516 Richard Rohrs Falling Upward is a book that changed my posture and my heart, in what it actually looks like to be a disciple of Jesus because it's, it's about the. 532 00:54:37,280.1408516 --> 00:54:40,755.1408516 What, what he calls the second half of your faith journey. 533 00:54:40,755.1408516 --> 00:54:43,35.1408516 And he, he names like most people don't get there. 534 00:54:43,275.1408516 --> 00:54:53,475.1408516 And it involves that dark night of the soul, that struggle, that wrestling, that deconstructing and reconstructing, um, and the invitation that Jesus has to go, yeah, all of that is safe with me. 535 00:54:53,475.1408516 --> 00:54:55,935.1408516 All of that is important to me. 536 00:54:56,715.1408516 --> 00:55:08,626.893801 Um, and then what do you do and what does it look like and what's actually the invitation of God to continue going deeper? and so that would be just a formation nugget that I, I send to everybody. 537 00:55:09,23.7692536 --> 00:55:20,333.7692536 Yeah, no, I, I really appreciate that and I'll make sure to put that in the show notes if you, if you have any more that you wanna share with me off air, I'll add them to the show notes as well for, for those who are interested. 538 00:55:20,460.2271344 --> 00:55:22,860.2271344 For the sake of this conversation, that'll be what I give you. 539 00:55:22,860.2271344 --> 00:55:27,120.2271344 But if you want other books and other topics, I'm a nerd and I will, I will send you everything. 540 00:55:27,193.6648606 --> 00:56:07,11.7277146 So as we close off, do you have any closing thoughts that you would like to leave with us as we talk about wrapping up this conversation on discipleship in small groups? I have so many ways that like, gosh, I would love to like personally bless and encourage every single person that's listening to this because what I would love for people to walk away from this conversation is that they matter and their uniqueness matters and what they're doing, even when it feels unfruitful matters, and our current climate, globally, and especially in the context that I'm in, in the United States is divisive. 541 00:56:07,221.7277146 --> 00:56:19,160.5643129 It is so, marginalizing and, that division comes out of like a posture that the world has allowed people that are not people of faith to dehumanize others. 542 00:56:19,460.5643129 --> 00:56:20,300.5643129 And so. 543 00:56:20,795.5643129 --> 00:56:44,75.5643129 I would say the work of creating safe community that is unified around the one thing that matters is the hope of the world, right? Creating a model that goes, we are, we are fallible and we are people and we are living in the pain and the glory of the now and the not yet. 544 00:56:44,915.5643129 --> 00:57:07,638.8976463 But if we can come together and learn what it looks like to, lift each other up, empower each other, name what's good and glorious written into each person's unique story, and then go out and like, it's like that idea of how do we, for the one and for the world, how do we, how do we live that out? It matters so much. 545 00:57:07,668.8976463 --> 00:57:08,868.8976463 It matters so much. 546 00:57:08,868.8976463 --> 00:57:28,925.5643129 And so every pastor, every church leader, every volunteer or person that just like found this randomly, What you're doing for the kingdom, whether it's teeny tiny, it feels teeny tiny, or it's like massive scale is anointed and it matters. 547 00:57:28,925.5643129 --> 00:57:42,762.5463575 And so trust that, um, and trust that the more ways we can call out the goodness in each other and create unity around the Jesus in each other, it's gonna make a difference. 548 00:57:42,762.5463575 --> 00:57:43,452.5463575 We have it. 549 00:57:43,452.5463575 --> 00:57:45,402.5463575 It's so We have to, we have to. 550 00:57:46,145.1507505 --> 00:57:53,978.7748475 Lindsey, this has been so great and I, I'm convinced that those who are listening up to this point, have learned something. 551 00:57:53,978.7748475 --> 00:57:57,599.4041435 They've gained something, in the heart of blessing. 552 00:57:57,719.4041435 --> 00:58:04,730.8620243 Those who are listening, can I ask you to close us off in prayer and just pray for for those who I would love to, oh God. 553 00:58:05,480.8620243 --> 00:58:06,645.8620243 Thank you for your church. 554 00:58:07,580.8620243 --> 00:58:19,380.8620243 We are grateful that, what you could do in an instant, which is, transform hearts and minds, you have empowered us to be a part of God. 555 00:58:20,400.8620243 --> 00:58:27,270.8620243 Thank you for the fact that you love your church so much that you would die on behalf of it. 556 00:58:27,480.8620243 --> 00:58:33,180.8620243 You love each person that is part of your church so much that you would die in order, that it might have life. 557 00:58:33,330.8620243 --> 00:58:48,870.8620243 And so, God, I pray for every leader, every volunteer, every pastor, uh, whether they are in a season of beautiful harvest, or if they are in a season of question or dryness or rocky, rocky road ahead. 558 00:58:48,900.8620243 --> 00:58:56,275.8620243 God, I pray that they would feel that anointing that you have given to them on their lives, that they are. 559 00:58:57,315.8620243 --> 00:59:02,475.8620243 Made on purpose with a particular gifting and a blessing and a calling God. 560 00:59:02,475.8620243 --> 00:59:18,645.8620243 And so I pray that you would open their eyes to how you are working in and through them, how you are walking with them and carrying them, and that they would each have unique moments in their days and weeks that feel like, oh, only the God of the universe knows me that way. 561 00:59:18,735.8620243 --> 00:59:23,745.8620243 And so that they can then invite more people into that same encounter. 562 00:59:23,895.8620243 --> 00:59:31,725.8620243 God, we pray that you would unify your church, you would expand your kingdom, and we thank you for the part we get to play in that. 563 00:59:32,355.8620243 --> 00:59:44,715.8620243 And I pray that you would bless each of these leaders and pastors and people that just love you and want to steward the shepherd and this and the sheep that you have given them well. 564 00:59:44,805.8620243 --> 00:59:47,115.8620243 And so I pray that you have blessed and anoint that in Jesus name. 565 00:59:47,115.8620243 --> 00:59:47,445.8620243 Amen. 566 00:59:47,971.0708102 --> 00:59:48,601.0708102 Amen. 567 00:59:50,90.6632692 --> 00:59:54,180.6632692 Well, I hope that you enjoyed this episode of the Lausanne Movement Podcast. 568 00:59:54,460.6632692 --> 01:00:00,390.6632692 If you did enjoy the show, I want to encourage you to leave us a rating and review and share it with a friend. 569 01:00:00,879.2858049 --> 01:00:01,679.2858049 Till next week. 570 01:00:02,49.2858049 --> 01:00:02,499.2858049 Cheers.

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Discipleship Through Community: Everyone in Groups, Every Group on Mission with Lindsey Jodts

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Discipleship Through Community: Everyone in Groups, Every Group on Mission with Lindsey Jodts

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