From Genocide to Hope: Rebuilding Rwanda Through Healing and Reconciliation [Bonus Episode]

We’re doing something different in this special episode—bringing you a feature from our friends at the God on the Move podcast.

God on the Move Podcast shares inspiring stories of faithful believers from the global church and will encourage you in your own faithful obedience to God’s global mission.

We will soon be switching to a new rhythm of releasing a Lausanne Movement Podcast episode every second week, with God on the Move publishing in the weeks between. We hope that this new rhythm allows you to enjoy both Podcasts.

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GOD ON THE MOVE

Josephine Munyeli, Director of Administration and Finances at the PEACE Plan Rwanda, shares her harrowing and inspiring personal story as a survivor of the 1994 Rwandan genocide. She recounts her experiences, the challenges of raising her children as a widow, and her instrumental role in Rwanda's healing and reconciliation process. The episode delves into how collective efforts involving the community, the church, and international NGOs have facilitated Rwanda's recovery from such a devastating event. Munyeli's insights into forgiveness, reconciliation, and the ongoing work of PEACE Plan Rwanda highlight a journey from unimaginable trauma to a symbol of resilience and hope.

 

📚 Links from the Interview

• Rwandan Stories: rwandanstories.org
• The PEACE Plan Rwanda: https://www.thepeaceplanrwanda.com
• World Vision Rwanda: https://www.wvi.org/rwanda

🔗 Join the God on the Move Community on the Lausanne Action Hub and be part of the conversation, see exclusive content and share your own testimony.

 

Josephine MUNYELI Rwandan, born in a strong religious family and a God-fearing environment, Josephine has been involved in the work of Healing, Peacebuilding and reconciliation since 1997 in different institutions and was leading healing and reconciliation initiatives. She was also involved in mobilizing Rwandans to embrace and participate in Gacaca processes that were to bring together genocide survivors, perpetrators and the population, in general, to tell the truth about what they saw, heard and did during that tragedy for the purpose of healing, confession, forgiveness, justice and reconciliation. From 2017 to December 2024, she worked with churches in Rwanda, coordinating capacity-building initiatives to Promote reconciliation, Equip servant leaders, Assist the poor, Care for the sick and Educate the next generation. Josephine has been involved in the course known as “Perspectives on the Global Christian Movement” since 2021 and currently serves as an Instructor not only in Rwanda but also in other French-speaking countries in Africa. Josephine retired in January 2025 but continues to serve in the Perspectives course and works on a voluntary basis with TUBASANGE, an agency that mobilizes, trains and sends missionaries. Josephine is a widow with two grown-up sons and a daughter-in-law. She holds a Masters Degree in Business Administration/Project Management and a Bachelor’s Degree in Sociology.

 

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Episode Transcript

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Hey there, podcast listeners.

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In this episode, we're doing something slightly different to what we normally do, bringing you a special feature from our friends at the God on the Move Podcast. 3 00:00:10,843.333333333 --> 00:00:23,593.333333333 God on the Move shares inspiring stories of faithful believers from across the global church, and we are convinced that this show will encourage you in your own faithful obedience in God's global mission. 4 00:00:24,24.558551169 --> 00:00:32,39.052154195 We are soon gonna be switching to a new rhythm of releasing Lausanne Movement podcast episodes every second week with God on the Move Publishing. 5 00:00:32,39.052154195 --> 00:00:38,624.744154195 In the weeks between, we hope that this new rhythm will allow you to get to enjoy both of the podcasts. 6 00:00:38,984.744154195 --> 00:00:41,594.744154195 You can find a link to God on the move in your show notes. 7 00:00:41,984.744154195 --> 00:00:45,164.744154195 Where you can subscribe so that you won't miss when the episode drops. 8 00:00:45,434.744154195 --> 00:00:53,264.744154195 But for now, we hope that you enjoy today's episode, and next week we'll be back with an interview from the Lausanne Movement Podcast. 9 00:00:53,504.744154195 --> 00:00:55,634.744154195 Until next week, cheers. 10 00:01:01,422.98623058 --> 00:01:02,472.391671816 God on the move. 11 00:01:07,53.381176683 --> 00:01:09,680.04784335 And when he knocks, she comes and opens. 12 00:01:09,800.04784335 --> 00:01:14,940.04784335 And she says, What are you coming to do here? Says, I'm coming to apologize. 13 00:01:15,260.04784335 --> 00:01:26,226.109125015 Says, if I forgive you, will my husband forgive you? Will my children forgive you? Will my neighbors forgive you? And he mentions everyone who was killed by that guy. 14 00:01:26,362.775791681 --> 00:01:32,2.77579168 He says, yes, they will forgive me, because you are the one standing for them. 15 00:01:32,89.441458347 --> 00:01:34,579.441458347 If you forgive me, I will be forgiven. 16 00:01:37,313.5904728 --> 00:01:44,563.5904728 Rwanda is a small landlocked country in East Africa, known for its lush green hills, diverse wildlife and resilient people. 17 00:01:45,2.15140955 --> 00:01:57,3.79578534 Despite its natural beauty and rich culture, however, Rwanda is perhaps most widely known for the tragic events of 1994, when the country experienced one of the most horrific genocides in modern history. 18 00:01:57,526.70224811 --> 00:02:09,599.34432746 Over the course of approximately 100 days, an estimated 800, 000 to 1 million Tutsi and moderate Hutu were brutally killed by extremist Hutu militia and government forces. 19 00:02:09,847.67866079 --> 00:02:16,237.67866079 The genocide was fueled by long standing ethnic tensions, colonial era divisions, and political instability. 20 00:02:16,362.16414781 --> 00:02:23,932.20536303 Today, Rwanda has made remarkable progress in healing and rebuilding, becoming a symbol of reconciliation, development, and hope. 21 00:02:26,113.88999091 --> 00:02:28,533.88999091 You are listening to the God on the Move podcast. 22 00:02:29,233.88999091 --> 00:02:37,350.55665757 This Lausanne Movement production is part of a wider initiative dedicated to sharing testimonies of God's work across the world for every believer. 23 00:02:37,840.55565757 --> 00:02:41,230.55665757 And this is the story of healing and reconciliation in Rwanda. 24 00:02:43,280.53631549 --> 00:02:45,710.53581549 The voice you heard earlier was Josephine Munyeli. 25 00:02:46,140.53631549 --> 00:02:52,630.53631549 She is the Director of Administration and Finances at The PEACE Plan Rwanda, and this is her story. 26 00:02:53,102.86964882 --> 00:02:55,102.86964882 I'm Josephine Munyeli. 27 00:02:55,122.86964882 --> 00:02:56,102.86964882 I'm Rwandan. 28 00:02:56,469.85141859 --> 00:03:01,895.67755478 I'm a widow who lost my husband in 1992 with two children. 29 00:03:02,93.71920181 --> 00:03:05,297.05353515 One was four, another one was two. 30 00:03:05,383.71920181 --> 00:03:07,423.72020181 I raised them on my own. 31 00:03:07,660.38686848 --> 00:03:13,327.05353515 That is biggest part of my story because I saw the Lord in my journey. 32 00:03:13,327.05353515 --> 00:03:19,247.05353515 of being alone, raising boys, and now one is married, another one is big, so they are adults. 33 00:03:19,630.38686848 --> 00:03:20,660.38586848 So I thank God. 34 00:03:21,0.38586848 --> 00:03:23,380.38586848 I'm a genocide survivor, also. 35 00:03:23,380.38586848 --> 00:03:30,777.83025978 I survived the genocide, and I had an opportunity of helping people who had lost theirs during genocide. 36 00:03:30,985.41939022 --> 00:03:40,238.66649167 While I was working for healing and reconciliation I had an opportunity to contribute to the healing of many, many Rwandans. 37 00:03:40,882.20293623 --> 00:03:42,902.20293623 Today I work with churches. 38 00:03:42,986.16806488 --> 00:03:53,329.50139822 Broadly, I work for an organization called The PEACE Plan Rwanda, and we build the capacity of churches to do missions, if I can say. 39 00:03:53,359.50139822 --> 00:04:04,796.16906488 Missions what we call peace, The PEACE Plan, to promote reconciliation, to equip servant leaders, to assist the poor, to care for the sick, and educate the next generation. 40 00:04:05,116.16906488 --> 00:04:10,139.50239822 This is where I am currently, working with The PEACE Plan in Rwanda, in the churches. 41 00:04:10,466.16906488 --> 00:04:14,76.16906488 We will hear more about The PEACE Plan Rwanda later on in this episode. 42 00:04:14,319.87501509 --> 00:04:22,423.23115224 But first, I wanted to seize the opportunity to hear about the Rwandan genocide from someone who's actually experienced it first hand. 43 00:04:22,661.01553129 --> 00:04:39,168.68344423 How can something so horrific happen in a country that at the time was called the most Christian country in the entire world? So the genocide was a result of unresolved issues that was carried for more than 40 years. 44 00:04:39,498.68344423 --> 00:05:12,955.1329234 Rwanda has gone through a cycle of violence almost every 10 years, but in 1994, it was like the culmination of those cycles of violence that were not resolved and it kept continuing throughout generations and in 1994, mostly because there were some mistrust, some anger that were not solved, that were not healed, and it kind of exploded in 1994. 45 00:05:13,591.89959007 --> 00:05:17,31.89959007 Taking lives of more than one million people. 46 00:05:17,305.2329234 --> 00:05:22,181.89959007 Genocide was facilitated by some people blame the church. 47 00:05:23,171.89859007 --> 00:05:30,422.54505535 Some people say, how come a country whereby 99 percent of the population is Christian. 48 00:05:30,422.54505535 --> 00:05:34,106.8126109 But you can question that kind of Christianity. 49 00:05:34,920.24594423 --> 00:05:44,426.9126109 If they say 90 percent and you say people were counted to that scale and we're really Christians, that's the question to ask ourselves. 50 00:05:44,570.24494423 --> 00:05:53,870.24594423 Were we really Christians? Yeah, so the church was kind of absent or was giving a message that was not appropriate. 51 00:05:54,236.9126109 --> 00:06:00,870.24494423 And even during genocide, some people, some Tutsis were killed in the churches. 52 00:06:01,110.24594423 --> 00:06:07,23.57927757 So churches that were before a place of refuge became not safe for people. 53 00:06:07,443.57927757 --> 00:06:09,143.57927757 who took refuge in the church. 54 00:06:09,203.57927757 --> 00:06:10,706.9126109 So, I don't know. 55 00:06:10,736.9126109 --> 00:06:21,831.9126109 I don't know, really, when you say 99 percent Christians, what is that? Actually, for me, we will never understand what was behind the genocide. 56 00:06:21,921.9126109 --> 00:06:28,708.57927757 Human understanding cannot really comprehend how people could be killed to that extent. 57 00:06:29,70.9641087 --> 00:06:32,950.9641087 People will never understand really, even me, I don't understand. 58 00:06:33,194.29744203 --> 00:06:36,384.29744203 So, the church was really absent, if I can say. 59 00:06:36,394.29744203 --> 00:06:48,119.29744203 And even after genocide, the church was criticized by people saying, where were you? And for many, many years, the church had lost its credibility. 60 00:06:48,261.61803564 --> 00:06:52,577.60645799 The church was not really what Jesus would call the church. 61 00:06:52,934.81075906 --> 00:06:58,434.81075906 This left me with the question how she experienced this whole time and how she managed to survive. 62 00:06:58,991.47742573 --> 00:07:00,581.47742573 My response was to hide. 63 00:07:02,39.54418451 --> 00:07:13,142.03594798 Yeah, during genocide, I was at home with my children and genocide started with the night when President Habyarimana plane was shot. 64 00:07:13,402.03494798 --> 00:07:17,215.36828132 That was the trigger, if I can say, of what happened. 65 00:07:17,452.03494798 --> 00:07:19,582.03494798 So that night, we were hearing. 66 00:07:19,908.70161465 --> 00:07:25,782.03494798 Immediately, guns and noise, and we were hiding under the beds. 67 00:07:26,195.36828132 --> 00:07:37,292.60052769 Following morning, they were killing, but actually, mine started in February, even before April 94, some killings were happening. 68 00:07:37,489.26719436 --> 00:07:42,12.60052769 So on February 8th, I was going to prepare for a wedding. 69 00:07:42,202.60052769 --> 00:07:46,902.60052769 I was in charge of decorating the church for a friend who was getting married. 70 00:07:47,314.26719436 --> 00:07:56,393.8401074 So, in that morning, before reaching there, there were cars that were coming in my direction where they were supposed to go through the other direction. 71 00:07:56,597.17444074 --> 00:08:00,40.50777407 So it was a two way, but they were coming the wrong way. 72 00:08:00,183.8411074 --> 00:08:07,588.8411074 And those were the vehicles that we were seeing the group of killers and were doing a U turn in the wrong direction. 73 00:08:07,835.50777407 --> 00:08:09,25.50777407 So I couldn't understand. 74 00:08:09,45.50777407 --> 00:08:13,222.17344074 I continued and I reached there and I find a group of killers. 75 00:08:14,297.17444074 --> 00:08:14,977.17444074 Very many. 76 00:08:15,127.17444074 --> 00:08:16,940.50777407 They take me from my car. 77 00:08:17,47.17444074 --> 00:08:18,927.17444074 I was driving my small car. 78 00:08:19,27.17444074 --> 00:08:21,367.17344074 They take me outside of the car. 79 00:08:21,580.50777407 --> 00:08:27,630.50677407 Some take the legs, others take the hand, the arms, and they start swinging me. 80 00:08:27,767.75662076 --> 00:08:37,977.29719673 And my chance was that a major in the army came and snatched me from their hands and took me and rescued me, leaving my car there. 81 00:08:38,208.11776222 --> 00:08:54,689.07130411 And I went to his office and after that he called my, I was working with MSF Medicine Sans Frontieres, and he called the Medicine Sans Frontieres and eventually in the evening, they come and they escorted me from his office till I reached home. 82 00:08:54,805.73797077 --> 00:09:05,602.40463744 And I found my car that was there with the tires had been pierced and it was just there, and the windows were crashed, all sorts of things. 83 00:09:05,832.40463744 --> 00:09:09,92.40563744 But that was the beginning of my rescue actually. 84 00:09:09,275.73897077 --> 00:09:11,365.73897077 One week later, I go to the market. 85 00:09:11,705.73897077 --> 00:09:18,102.40563744 And here, we have the luxury of finding boys who can carry our things when we go to the market. 86 00:09:18,502.40563744 --> 00:09:24,292.40463744 So a guy comes, says, can I help you, mom? I said, yes, please take my bags. 87 00:09:24,442.40463744 --> 00:09:29,759.07030411 And then we went, when we reached home, I gave him a soda and I said, thank you. 88 00:09:29,900.73697077 --> 00:09:35,640.73697077 And he looked at me and said, do you recognize me? I said, No, I don't recognize you. 89 00:09:35,640.73697077 --> 00:09:37,897.40363744 Please remind me where we met. 90 00:09:37,897.50363744 --> 00:09:41,700.73697077 He said, Remember the other time you came, we were about to kill you. 91 00:09:41,700.73697077 --> 00:09:43,443.96513744 I was the leader of that, that, group. 92 00:09:43,443.96513744 --> 00:09:46,253.96613744 I was wearing a grenade and I had a knife. 93 00:09:46,400.63280411 --> 00:09:50,13.96613744 And a major in the army came and took you from us. 94 00:09:50,160.63280411 --> 00:09:52,300.63280411 And I said, Oh, so you were in the group. 95 00:09:52,300.63280411 --> 00:09:53,230.63280411 Yes, I'm the leader. 96 00:09:53,730.63280411 --> 00:10:02,370.63280411 But he says, but next time when we go to demonstrate, I will come and tell you to stay at home so that we don't kill you. 97 00:10:02,610.63180411 --> 00:10:04,610.63180411 So he kept coming. 98 00:10:04,837.29847077 --> 00:10:09,117.29847077 Then one day, his sister who was taking care of him dies. 99 00:10:10,173.96613744 --> 00:10:13,13.96613744 And he comes and says, My sister is dead. 100 00:10:13,33.96613744 --> 00:10:17,527.29947077 What can I do? And I said, Oh, sorry, take this. 101 00:10:17,587.29947077 --> 00:10:25,333.96513744 I gave him 20, 000 francs to go to buy the coffin and because it was in the morning I was going to work. 102 00:10:25,483.96513744 --> 00:10:27,433.96513744 And he was very, very much touched. 103 00:10:27,693.96613744 --> 00:10:34,573.96613744 And from that time, we started the journey with him because he started regretting what he was doing. 104 00:10:34,767.29947077 --> 00:10:46,280.63280411 I said, do you consider leaving those operations? He says, I can't leave because before we join, we sign documents that if we leave, we would be killed. 105 00:10:46,660.63280411 --> 00:10:53,912.92410845 But he says, if I had a job, I would have a pretext of not going to participate in those things. 106 00:10:54,206.25644179 --> 00:10:56,466.25744179 We look for a job at the post office. 107 00:10:56,592.92310845 --> 00:10:59,2.92310845 We got a job and it's not a cleaner. 108 00:10:59,12.92310845 --> 00:11:03,632.82310845 What can we call? Errand guys, those who you give letters to distribute. 109 00:11:04,87.82310845 --> 00:11:10,447.82310845 Then we got the job, and that was around April, because we started the journey with him in February. 110 00:11:10,597.82310845 --> 00:11:15,497.82410845 But by March, he was disgusted with what they were doing. 111 00:11:15,731.15744179 --> 00:11:28,496.74835088 Then when we got the job, it required him to go to his place of origin to bring some official documents for him to start the job. 112 00:11:28,496.74835088 --> 00:11:32,622.23817095 But April 6 happened before he went. 113 00:11:32,652.23817095 --> 00:11:36,510.2005305 He was about to go, but he had not gone to get the documents. 114 00:11:37,104.77834987 --> 00:11:40,408.10082172 Then everything becomes difficult for him. 115 00:11:40,572.67764109 --> 00:11:52,665.91197442 Now, in the night of April 6, he had not gone, and he could not escape from the group that he was leading, so he was obliged to participate in the killings. 116 00:11:53,32.57864109 --> 00:12:02,425.81197442 Early in the morning, like, 4 or 5 AM, he knocks at the gate, and my guard says, it is that boy who comes. 117 00:12:02,629.14530776 --> 00:12:05,385.81097442 And he came with a knife full of blood. 118 00:12:05,602.47764109 --> 00:12:07,232.47864109 He had grenades. 119 00:12:07,295.81197442 --> 00:12:12,315.81197442 Red eyes, like someone who was on drugs, finished taking drugs. 120 00:12:12,315.81197442 --> 00:12:14,285.81197442 He was looking really terrible. 121 00:12:14,295.81197442 --> 00:12:15,285.81197442 It was terrible. 122 00:12:15,435.81197442 --> 00:12:20,352.47864109 And he comes and he says, has anyone disturbed you? We said not yet. 123 00:12:20,362.47864109 --> 00:12:26,609.14430776 He says there are lists that are coming for us to go and kill, but you are not on the list. 124 00:12:26,839.14430776 --> 00:12:29,729.14430776 But doesn't mean that you will not be on the list. 125 00:12:29,975.81097442 --> 00:12:31,455.81097442 You might be on the list. 126 00:12:31,525.81097442 --> 00:12:33,475.81097442 It keeps being updated. 127 00:12:33,485.81097442 --> 00:12:35,875.81197442 Some lists come from the gendarmerie. 128 00:12:36,205.81197442 --> 00:12:38,575.81197442 Other lists come from the army. 129 00:12:38,815.81197442 --> 00:12:41,785.81197442 Other lists from, we, some people. 130 00:12:42,240.81197442 --> 00:12:55,133.15672442 Bring lists for us to go and kill, but I haven't seen you on the list, but if I find you on the list, I will come and try to take you and the children and hide you somewhere. 131 00:12:55,336.49005776 --> 00:13:09,441.48905776 So still we're not on the list and he was coming to tell us you are not there, we are not coming, but we said, by the way, do you know anyone in this neighborhood who is on the list? He says yes. 132 00:13:09,521.48905776 --> 00:13:21,188.15422442 There is this guy here, that was my immediate neighbor, it is the guy here, another lady on the road is on the list, and another one, he said, he mentioned the three families. 133 00:13:21,218.15422442 --> 00:13:25,308.15422442 And my sister who was living with me called all of them. 134 00:13:25,524.82189109 --> 00:13:28,576.59272442 And they came and hid with us in our house. 135 00:13:28,733.25939109 --> 00:13:32,833.25939109 But we could not disclose that they were with us, otherwise we would be killed. 136 00:13:32,953.25939109 --> 00:13:37,843.25939109 So they came, they attacked our neighbors, they didn't find them, it's a long story. 137 00:13:38,193.25939109 --> 00:13:40,453.25939109 And the other neighbors, they are not there. 138 00:13:40,669.92605776 --> 00:13:45,579.92605776 No, they didn't find them, but we were together until I don't remember the date. 139 00:13:45,759.92605776 --> 00:13:51,96.59272442 During that time, my memory was erased, I don't know the date when he came. 140 00:13:51,249.92605776 --> 00:13:53,979.92605776 I don't know the date when we left my home. 141 00:13:54,99.92605776 --> 00:13:58,59.92605776 I don't know the date when we went to take refuge; I don't know. 142 00:13:58,323.25939109 --> 00:14:05,666.59272442 So sometime they say there is, the RPF is in the corner and people are afraid in the neighborhood. 143 00:14:05,893.25939109 --> 00:14:10,713.15939109 And our guy comes and says, I don't know if it is my last day. 144 00:14:10,873.25939109 --> 00:14:15,593.25939109 Men here, the heads of families were required to go to the roadblocks. 145 00:14:15,816.59272442 --> 00:14:18,866.59272442 Everyone was obliged to go to the roadblocks. 146 00:14:19,56.59272442 --> 00:14:28,273.25939109 Now he comes and says, the bosses here have refused to come to the roadblocks because they fear that the RPF is in the corner. 147 00:14:28,356.59272442 --> 00:14:32,226.59272442 I don't want to go and I'm afraid, I don't know what will happen. 148 00:14:32,343.25939109 --> 00:14:36,223.25939109 If you don't see me, you know that I am gone or I died. 149 00:14:36,729.92605776 --> 00:14:40,224.40431863 So in that very evening, there were gunshots. 150 00:14:40,254.40431863 --> 00:14:43,234.40331863 They really, they were fighting in our community. 151 00:14:43,297.73665196 --> 00:14:48,891.06998529 And next morning all the people who were on the roadblock were killed, including him. 152 00:14:49,54.40331863 --> 00:14:51,24.40331863 And he died in that way. 153 00:14:51,254.40331863 --> 00:14:53,344.40331863 And after that, we had peace. 154 00:14:53,344.40331863 --> 00:14:58,717.73665196 The RPF came and rescued us and took us to an hospital to stay there. 155 00:14:58,717.73665196 --> 00:15:02,674.40281863 Then they took us to another place in the north called Biomba. 156 00:15:02,674.40281863 --> 00:15:04,667.73665196 We stayed there for some time. 157 00:15:04,771.06898529 --> 00:15:09,74.40331863 When I reached there, I found the Medecins Sans Frontieres. 158 00:15:09,334.40331863 --> 00:15:12,4.30331863 I was working for Medecins Sans Frontieres. 159 00:15:12,284.40331863 --> 00:15:15,244.40331863 Immediately, they gave me the job to work in the refugee camps. 160 00:15:16,59.40331863 --> 00:15:18,899.40331863 But after some time, again, I don't know the date. 161 00:15:18,899.40331863 --> 00:15:20,429.40331863 I don't know how many days. 162 00:15:20,629.40331863 --> 00:15:26,646.06998529 They took me to Uganda to work in the logistical base for MSF Rwanda. 163 00:15:26,806.06898529 --> 00:15:31,109.40331863 So I stayed there and I came back close to end of 1995. 164 00:15:31,109.40331863 --> 00:15:34,789.40331863 I spent one year in Uganda, working from Uganda. 165 00:15:34,909.40331863 --> 00:15:36,859.40331863 Yeah, this is how I survived. 166 00:15:37,61.06998529 --> 00:15:40,611.06998529 I was with my sister, but my family was killed. 167 00:15:40,661.06998529 --> 00:15:44,821.06998529 My father, my mother, my siblings, and their children. 168 00:15:45,12.21849365 --> 00:15:54,921.98070132 I counted the number of family, immediate and extended members, I lost more than 60 family members who were killed during genocide. 169 00:15:55,91.98070132 --> 00:15:58,291.98070132 So I survived with my four sisters. 170 00:15:58,321.98070132 --> 00:15:59,421.98070132 One is a nun. 171 00:15:59,526.30578828 --> 00:16:03,346.30678828 Other two are married and we have children and we are fine. 172 00:16:03,490.35026654 --> 00:16:05,660.35026654 But we lost almost everyone. 173 00:16:05,956.46886306 --> 00:16:10,53.13552973 Thank God that I have my sisters and our children. 174 00:16:10,256.46886306 --> 00:16:18,743.87807621 We have here people who lost everyone and they are just a single person remaining in the world without any relative. 175 00:16:18,836.68527309 --> 00:16:24,76.42796768 There's a village here in Rwanda with old ladies who remained alone in the world. 176 00:16:24,748.09563435 --> 00:16:29,791.42896768 They had children, they had grandchildren, they had brothers, and they remain alone. 177 00:16:29,891.42896768 --> 00:16:33,858.09563435 Me, I thank God that at least I have my sisters and our children. 178 00:16:34,179.19019993 --> 00:16:42,695.8558666 I simply cannot imagine what it must have been like and how much faith it takes to come out of something like this with an attitude of gratitude. 179 00:16:42,992.5235333 --> 00:16:53,632.5235333 But what fascinates me the most is how a whole country could possibly recover from a genocide, when perpetrators and victims were neighbors, friends, even members of the same church. 180 00:16:54,132.5235333 --> 00:17:03,792.5235333 On this podcast alone, we have heard so many wonderful stories of people where God healed from trauma and turned hearts around, even in the most grimest of situations. 181 00:17:03,965.8568666 --> 00:17:06,745.8568666 I'm sure we're all familiar with testimonies like this. 182 00:17:06,892.5235333 --> 00:17:10,685.8558666 By healing a whole country? That seems to be a different story. 183 00:17:11,235.3804413 --> 00:17:12,385.3804413 God is able. 184 00:17:12,875.3794413 --> 00:17:14,715.3814413 God can use everyone. 185 00:17:15,284.8345663 --> 00:17:22,674.9574793 In Rwanda, the church had failed, but also the church contributed in the rebuilding of the country. 186 00:17:22,911.1531315 --> 00:17:24,751.1531315 Also, we had the leadership. 187 00:17:24,981.1521315 --> 00:17:28,494.0379141 The leadership, I think they were inspired by God. 188 00:17:28,604.0379141 --> 00:17:38,314.3092909 The then president, it was very hard to know how to go after 94, to know what step to make because everything was destroyed. 189 00:17:38,420.9759576 --> 00:17:45,420.9759576 The country was full of traumatized people, some for what they did, others for what they went through. 190 00:17:45,585.9759576 --> 00:17:51,152.6686659 It was a country that went mad as a film that said The Rwanda a country that went mad. 191 00:17:51,422.6686659 --> 00:17:56,342.6686659 So 94, it was such destructional, it was a disaster actually. 192 00:17:57,331.4937593 --> 00:18:09,210.1459389 So to rebuild the country, it took the then president, he called people from all categories, all kind of people, representative of every group of people. 193 00:18:09,316.8126055 --> 00:18:11,343.4792722 He called them for a whole year. 194 00:18:11,413.4782722 --> 00:18:39,361.8116055 They were meeting on a weekly basis just to answer the question, what can we do about our situation? So they debated lecturers from university, drivers, politicians, religious teachers, all those different people, everyone really contributed to answering that question of what can we do? So this is where the idea of Gacaca came. 195 00:18:39,591.8126055 --> 00:18:45,72.3449881 Gacaca was a justice system that was practiced in ancient Rwanda. 196 00:18:45,230.3256529 --> 00:18:49,80.3256529 It was a justice done by the community members. 197 00:18:49,90.3256529 --> 00:18:51,693.6589862 They would go and sit in a public place. 198 00:18:51,816.9923195 --> 00:18:53,636.9923195 Gacaca means grass. 199 00:18:53,753.6589862 --> 00:18:59,360.3246529 They were seated in the grass, debating and solving conflict in the community. 200 00:18:59,663.6589862 --> 00:19:14,989.1597003 So 94, the justice system, the professionals judges, really, if we were to use them, experts say that we would spend 120 years dealing with the genocide cases. 201 00:19:15,257.6329175 --> 00:19:19,698.7451658 So some people would die without having justice for them. 202 00:19:19,888.0937544 --> 00:19:28,990.7559367 So they said maybe we can bring back the gachacha that was practiced in ancient Rwanda and try to see how it can apply. 203 00:19:29,321.0159647 --> 00:19:36,804.9680529 Because genocide is a huge thing and it was committed in the view of community members. 204 00:19:36,989.3346755 --> 00:19:50,89.9534303 So if we want to judge, let us involve the community so that everyone comes and tell the story and say and identify the perpetrators and help us clarify this. 205 00:19:50,246.620097 --> 00:19:55,590.9299928 So the Gacaca law was made to have judges from the community members. 206 00:19:55,727.5966595 --> 00:20:03,4.2633262 Those judges were given some training on the Gacaca law, on handling emotions, on these legal things. 207 00:20:03,384.2633262 --> 00:20:07,709.0749204 So they were trained to judge the perpetrators of genocide. 208 00:20:07,965.8575291 --> 00:20:11,555.6024566 So we had Gacaca courts, in every, cell. 209 00:20:11,555.7024566 --> 00:20:16,755.7024566 A cell is an administrative entity, that was the lowest at that time. 210 00:20:16,849.0357899 --> 00:20:19,559.0357899 So in every cell there was a Gachacha court. 211 00:20:20,95.7024566 --> 00:20:28,12.3691233 And it was judged by the judges called Inyangamugayo, who were trained that way, who were trained to engage communities. 212 00:20:28,99.0347899 --> 00:20:32,259.9722899 First of all, it was a step by step judgment, really. 213 00:20:32,549.9722899 --> 00:20:35,389.8722899 There were meetings that lasted two years. 214 00:20:35,589.8722899 --> 00:20:38,59.8722899 It was done really methodically. 215 00:20:38,109.8722899 --> 00:20:42,679.8732899 For example, first meeting was to identify the people who were living in the cell. 216 00:20:42,939.8732899 --> 00:20:54,643.2066233 Second meeting was identify the people who are no longer living in the cell and third meeting the people who were living and still living, people who died outside the cell. 217 00:20:54,903.2066233 --> 00:20:56,443.2066233 It was a step by step. 218 00:20:56,493.2066233 --> 00:20:59,883.2076233 The last meeting was to say who did what. 219 00:21:00,174.3576233 --> 00:21:09,595.3065363 But before that you would go what you saw only before you say this one killed, this one fled, this, but you would say what you saw only. 220 00:21:09,874.764145 --> 00:21:13,104.764145 And then the judges would have those information. 221 00:21:13,192.5043624 --> 00:21:17,342.4895053 And during that time, some people were in prison. 222 00:21:17,342.4895053 --> 00:21:24,627.4187196 Actually, Gacaca came also to liberate prisoners who were in prison and had not committed. 223 00:21:24,637.4187196 --> 00:21:33,827.4187196 Because people were taken to prison just because some genocide survivors were afraid of seeing them, and they were taken to prison. 224 00:21:33,837.4187196 --> 00:21:38,280.6520529 There were many prisoners who were released during the Gacaca processes. 225 00:21:38,390.7520529 --> 00:21:49,474.0843862 Because the community would say this one is innocent, this one committed genocide, and that led to the real perpetrators go to prison, and those who were innocent were liberated. 226 00:21:50,334.0843862 --> 00:21:58,669.9437612 But this was an idea of the gatherings that were taking place called by the president to see what to do. 227 00:21:58,669.9437612 --> 00:22:01,349.9427612 That was the suggestion from those leaders. 228 00:22:01,653.2760946 --> 00:22:06,956.6094279 So Gacaca was one solution, but also that was the government thing. 229 00:22:07,146.6094279 --> 00:22:15,106.6084279 But also the church was involved really in the reconciliation processes, but not all the churches. 230 00:22:15,389.9427612 --> 00:22:35,449.9427612 Mostly they were helped by some NGOs, like where I was working, World Vision, and Africa Evangelistic Enterprises that were working with the church to work with the church leaders and church members to facilitate healing and reconciliation workshops in the church. 231 00:22:35,589.9427612 --> 00:22:47,365.0052612 This was very, very important, because so many people got their healing through the church, but with the involvement of others, because somehow the church was not trusted. 232 00:22:47,722.0625529 --> 00:22:55,62.0625529 And you had to engage also these organizations like World Vision and others, but working in the church still. 233 00:22:59,661.6675667 --> 00:23:06,501.6675667 Before we continue with the story, I want to let you know that you can now join the God on the Move community on the Lausanne Action Hub. 234 00:23:07,131.6675667 --> 00:23:11,631.6675667 Be part of the conversation, see exclusive content and share your own testimony. 235 00:23:12,71.6675667 --> 00:23:15,571.6675667 You can find the link to join the community in the podcast description. 236 00:23:16,181.6675667 --> 00:23:23,101.6685667 Also, if you have a story to share or know someone who might have, please contact us at [e-mail]. 237 00:23:23,671.6685667 --> 00:23:25,981.6685667 That is [e-mail]. 238 00:23:29,50.8787879 --> 00:23:30,520.8787879 It didn't start immediately. 239 00:23:31,60.8787879 --> 00:23:33,904.2121213 After 100 days, there was confusion. 240 00:23:34,137.5454546 --> 00:23:38,187.5444546 People were confused and they didn't really know what to do. 241 00:23:38,320.8777879 --> 00:23:43,790.8777879 Because even those church leaders that we mentioned, even them, they were affected. 242 00:23:44,52.5444546 --> 00:23:53,688.7034546 So who was the healer? It was everyone, certainly by God's grace that we had this invention that came, I'm sure, from God. 243 00:23:53,895.3701213 --> 00:23:57,218.7024546 For example, there were approaches that we used. 244 00:23:57,608.7024546 --> 00:24:08,769.0357879 You can't bring healing, or reconciliation was necessary because you can't live with people when you are full of anger and hatred and all those things. 245 00:24:09,47.7357879 --> 00:24:15,148.3357879 So we had to find a way of helping people first deal with their losses. 246 00:24:15,323.8024546 --> 00:24:17,923.64234 Period of bereavement, of mourning. 247 00:24:18,147.24234 --> 00:24:23,92.9100067 And again, we used the social approach because we are social. 248 00:24:23,172.9100067 --> 00:24:24,972.9100067 In Africa, we are social. 249 00:24:24,982.9100067 --> 00:24:26,742.9100067 We live in community. 250 00:24:26,896.6766733 --> 00:24:29,218.8766733 We are not individualistic. 251 00:24:29,411.34234 --> 00:24:34,964.74284 Healing happens in society as we share our stories, as we are together. 252 00:24:35,164.74284 --> 00:24:59,831.4095067 So, we had to imagine workshops that would allow people to bereave, to mourn for their losses, To know how to deal with their anger and sadness and the fears and mistrust and suspicions and then learn how to forgive, forgive oneself, forgive the other and then consider reconciling. 253 00:24:59,978.0771733 --> 00:25:03,971.4105067 That was a very long process that was undertaken. 254 00:25:04,891.4105067 --> 00:25:13,1.4105067 For example, in my work, we had to organize on a monthly basis, organize a healing workshop. 255 00:25:13,111.4105067 --> 00:25:14,881.4115067 Starting with bereavement. 256 00:25:15,1.4115067 --> 00:25:29,562.6224442 Three days of bereavement, telling our stories of losses, describing what happened, trying to immerse again in what happened to us and cry and hear someone say sorry for you. 257 00:25:29,592.6224442 --> 00:25:38,705.9557775 Because we needed to hear that someone is there to hear our stories and at least say sorry for what happened. 258 00:25:39,22.6224442 --> 00:25:40,252.6224442 That was very important. 259 00:25:41,17.6224442 --> 00:25:45,530.9557775 So the bereavement was three days, telling our stories. 260 00:25:45,650.9557775 --> 00:25:54,595.2885598 We shed so much tears in the bereavement workshop, and then you would go and spend a month processing your bereavement and so on. 261 00:25:54,715.2885598 --> 00:26:00,325.2885598 And then come back after one month, we had three days for dealing with emotions. 262 00:26:00,585.2885598 --> 00:26:04,321.9552265 Trying to understand the emotions that we feel. 263 00:26:04,585.2885598 --> 00:26:21,475.2885598 that are connected to what we went through and to learn how to deal with them, understand how anger works, understand how sadness works, understand how fear works and the positive side and negative side and how to deal with that. 264 00:26:21,575.2885598 --> 00:26:27,168.6218932 And we will do some practices and some exercises to deal with those emotions. 265 00:26:27,366.9552265 --> 00:26:40,86.9542265 And then we would go and come back after one month, and we would have again a workshop on forgiveness, trying to understand forgiveness, what it is, what it is not, how to forgive, and so on. 266 00:26:40,160.2875598 --> 00:26:46,213.6218932 Difference between forgiveness and reconciliation, considering reconciliation. 267 00:26:46,443.5218932 --> 00:26:51,723.5218932 Because we had dealt with the losses and we were ready to answer the question. 268 00:26:51,800.1885598 --> 00:27:08,776.8552265 Now, if you meet your perpetrator, do you think you can talk to them? Do you think you can forgive them? Do you think you can recall all those things, all those workshops and dialogue and reflections? So we did that, not group by group. 269 00:27:08,936.8552265 --> 00:27:14,478.5228932 You couldn't do this kind of workshop with a mixture of different categories. 270 00:27:14,601.8562265 --> 00:27:17,641.8562265 We started with the genocide survivors alone. 271 00:27:17,798.5228932 --> 00:27:25,788.9344935 After that, we went to prisons, doing the same because everyone had a story, a painful story, including the perpetrators. 272 00:27:25,922.2678269 --> 00:27:29,72.2668269 Them too, they had difficult stories of pain. 273 00:27:29,125.6001602 --> 00:27:34,135.5001602 And then we went to the released prisoners and their families and so on. 274 00:27:34,295.5001602 --> 00:27:47,62.1658269 And all of them, we would ask at the Reconciliation Workshop, Forgiveness Workshops, if they can really accept to meet the group of perpetrators or the survivors. 275 00:27:47,122.1668269 --> 00:27:51,982.1668269 Each one we could feel how they feel towards the other people. 276 00:27:52,115.5001602 --> 00:28:00,600.5011602 Then we realized that some genocide survivors would say, Now, I think I can sit with a perpetrator. 277 00:28:00,690.5011602 --> 00:28:06,183.8334935 And the perpetrators in the beginning they would say, I wouldn't even dare face them. 278 00:28:06,277.1678269 --> 00:28:10,350.5001602 I wouldn't dare look in the face of genocide survivors. 279 00:28:10,513.8324935 --> 00:28:19,563.8334935 But after workshop, you could hear someone say, Now I feel I am ready to meet the genocide survivors and ask for forgiveness. 280 00:28:19,613.8334935 --> 00:28:24,33.8334935 And we saw some instances of forgiveness, even writing the workshop. 281 00:28:24,163.8334935 --> 00:28:32,710.5001602 Then after that, we would have mixed groups of genocide survivors and released the prisoners who had committed genocidal. 282 00:28:32,797.1658269 --> 00:28:44,209.1720352 And you could see people go and apologize and cry before somebody and say, please, I'm sorry, forgive me, all those things. 283 00:28:44,329.1720352 --> 00:28:54,205.7377019 And after that, we even have some associations of people who reconciled, associations of genocide survivors and ex-prisoners. 284 00:28:54,305.7377019 --> 00:28:56,495.7377019 Now, they're together in cooperative. 285 00:28:56,495.7377019 --> 00:28:57,845.7377019 They do work together. 286 00:28:57,845.7377019 --> 00:28:59,735.7377019 They tell the stories together. 287 00:28:59,825.7377019 --> 00:29:04,960.7377019 And I want to direct you to a a website, rwandanstories.org. 288 00:29:05,250.7377019 --> 00:29:11,787.4043685 You can see so many stories about after genocide, the stories of hope and of reconciliation. 289 00:29:12,127.4043685 --> 00:29:15,37.4053685 So this is what we did and it worked. 290 00:29:15,483.1500085 --> 00:29:17,329.1300085 People came to reconcile. 291 00:29:17,435.5232377 --> 00:29:19,35.5242377 Of course, it's not all. 292 00:29:19,435.5242377 --> 00:29:23,385.5242377 But at least we did that and now people can face. 293 00:29:23,638.857571 --> 00:29:25,948.857571 other people and we are not afraid. 294 00:29:26,175.5242377 --> 00:29:34,572.1899044 There are some genocide survivors who were not even ready to leave their homes to go outside because they were still afraid. 295 00:29:34,902.1909044 --> 00:29:38,12.1899044 And perpetrators who were released, who were the same. 296 00:29:38,352.1919044 --> 00:29:44,485.5252377 I have a story of a couple of genocide survivor who reconciled with a perpetrator. 297 00:29:44,862.1919044 --> 00:29:45,992.1909044 They were neighbors. 298 00:29:46,283.858571 --> 00:29:50,120.5252377 But the perpetrator came from the refugee camp from Tanzania. 299 00:29:50,290.5252377 --> 00:29:56,337.216946 And he was a neighbor, and he learned that the lady he thought he had killed, didn't die. 300 00:29:56,500.5512794 --> 00:29:59,193.8846127 And he comes, and they say, she's alive. 301 00:29:59,223.8846127 --> 00:30:01,323.8846127 He said, no, I'm the one who killed him. 302 00:30:01,323.8846127 --> 00:30:02,763.8846127 I know where I buried her. 303 00:30:02,911.1111752 --> 00:30:05,174.0538835 The pit where I put her, she's not, no. 304 00:30:05,464.0538835 --> 00:30:06,634.0538835 But she survived. 305 00:30:06,994.0538835 --> 00:30:12,107.3872169 There are people who survived by other people who rescued them from a pile of dead bodies. 306 00:30:13,132.3872169 --> 00:30:19,577.139821 So the man hid for one month in the home, fearing to go out so that the lady could see. 307 00:30:19,577.139821 --> 00:30:23,827.139821 But slowly, by slowly, he couldn't keep that burden in him. 308 00:30:23,913.8064877 --> 00:30:26,663.8069877 You cannot be a prisoner in your own home. 309 00:30:26,820.4736544 --> 00:30:32,622.140321 Then, because his heart was not at peace, He said, let me try and go. 310 00:30:32,818.8069877 --> 00:30:40,808.8069877 Maybe I go to her, whether she takes me to prison or kill me, but I'd rather do that instead of keep in the hiding. 311 00:30:41,25.4726544 --> 00:30:46,962.140321 The first day he goes, he says, let me go, he goes, and he couldn't even leave the sitting room. 312 00:30:47,112.140321 --> 00:30:48,72.140321 He went back. 313 00:30:48,158.8069877 --> 00:30:55,445.4736544 Second day he went and he opened the door, and reached outside and didn't have the strength to go. 314 00:30:55,618.8069877 --> 00:30:57,278.8069877 He came back to his home. 315 00:30:57,412.140321 --> 00:31:00,592.139321 The third day he said, this time I'm going. 316 00:31:00,782.139321 --> 00:31:05,820.4736544 And he went, and when he was about to reach the home, He went back again. 317 00:31:05,820.4736544 --> 00:31:07,930.4736544 He couldn't find the strength to go. 318 00:31:08,143.8069877 --> 00:31:11,683.8059877 Another time he said, this time I am determined, let me go. 319 00:31:11,830.4736544 --> 00:31:15,140.4726544 She kills me, she calls for people to take me to prison. 320 00:31:15,190.4726544 --> 00:31:19,287.140321 I don't care, but I cannot live like a prisoner like this. 321 00:31:19,397.139321 --> 00:31:22,117.140321 He went and he knocked on her door. 322 00:31:22,220.4736544 --> 00:31:29,77.040321 He didn't wait for the door to open, he immediately ran and went back to his room. 323 00:31:29,583.8069877 --> 00:31:35,100.4736544 Then, the last day he went and he said, Now I am going to wait until she opens. 324 00:31:35,393.8069877 --> 00:31:40,979.217826 No one had told the lady that Muhide, the man was called Muhide, no one had told the lady. 325 00:31:41,128.5205294 --> 00:31:45,871.8538627 But everyone knew that Muhide had come back but they didn't communicate to her. 326 00:31:45,871.8538627 --> 00:31:51,16.0986544 Then he goes and he knocks and the lady comes and she calls for help. 327 00:31:51,119.4319877 --> 00:31:52,259.4319877 And she made noise. 328 00:31:52,356.0986544 --> 00:31:54,866.0986544 And when she made the noise, he ran away. 329 00:31:54,982.765321 --> 00:31:56,72.764321 And he came back home. 330 00:31:56,232.765321 --> 00:31:58,539.4309877 Then, you know how long it took for him. 331 00:31:59,439.4309877 --> 00:32:01,529.4309877 Then last day, he says, I'm going. 332 00:32:01,589.4309877 --> 00:32:02,149.4309877 He went. 333 00:32:02,416.0976544 --> 00:32:05,42.764321 And when he knocks, she comes and opens. 334 00:32:05,162.764321 --> 00:32:10,302.764321 And she says, What are you coming to do here? Says, I'm coming to apologize. 335 00:32:10,622.764321 --> 00:32:21,588.8256027 Says, if I forgive you, will my husband forgive you? Will my children forgive you? Will my neighbors forgive you? And he mentions everyone who was killed by that guy. 336 00:32:21,725.4922694 --> 00:32:27,365.4922694 He says, yes, they will forgive me, because you are the one standing for them. 337 00:32:27,452.157936 --> 00:32:29,942.157936 If you forgive me, I will be forgiven. 338 00:32:29,962.157936 --> 00:32:31,922.157936 Even them, they will forgive me. 339 00:32:32,8.8246027 --> 00:32:33,728.8246027 Says, no, I can't forgive you. 340 00:32:33,898.8246027 --> 00:32:35,658.8246027 I want to take you to prison. 341 00:32:35,738.8246027 --> 00:32:38,788.8236027 That time the prison was in the sector's office. 342 00:32:38,948.8246027 --> 00:32:43,291.7583527 Said, come, I'm going to take you to the commune where the prisoners were. 343 00:32:43,291.7583527 --> 00:32:45,843.7256027 So he said, oh, okay, take me. 344 00:32:46,56.0166145 --> 00:33:04,220.622429 They went together like 500 meters or one kilometer and then the lady says, as we were going, I was feeling my burden becoming lesser and lesser and I looked at him, And I could see that he was a human being. 345 00:33:04,554.5649577 --> 00:33:07,764.5649577 Before, I was looking at him and I could see an animal. 346 00:33:07,976.2681355 --> 00:33:11,326.2686355 But now, I started seeing him as a human being. 347 00:33:11,406.2676355 --> 00:33:13,136.2676355 And she said, let's go back home. 348 00:33:13,136.2686355 --> 00:33:15,366.2696355 It's not necessary for me to take you. 349 00:33:15,756.2706355 --> 00:33:16,346.2706355 Go. 350 00:33:16,452.9363021 --> 00:33:18,512.9363021 I don't think she said, I forgive you. 351 00:33:18,512.9363021 --> 00:33:19,332.9363021 She said, Go back. 352 00:33:19,591.2635749 --> 00:33:27,594.0989385 Then, because of what he had done, of course, he was taken to prison, not by the lady, but by the community. 353 00:33:27,806.7181203 --> 00:33:40,805.1181203 So he went to prison, and he apologized, he repented and so on, wrote letters of apology to the lady, and finally the lady forgave him and started visiting him in prison. 354 00:33:40,805.1181203 --> 00:33:42,545.1181203 Until he was released. 355 00:33:42,653.7726658 --> 00:33:48,40.7363021 And now they are together, they are friends, they tell their stories everywhere. 356 00:33:48,133.5363021 --> 00:33:54,159.9726658 They have forgiven each other, and their story is a story that many people go and collect. 357 00:33:54,219.5363021 --> 00:33:56,737.2453931 And they say we have forgiven each other. 358 00:33:56,918.0901374 --> 00:33:58,898.0901374 So that is only God. 359 00:33:59,88.0891374 --> 00:34:01,58.0891374 I think this is supernatural. 360 00:34:01,625.8484102 --> 00:34:10,233.401805 She said, I was feeling my burden becoming lesser and lesser, and I looked at him and I could see that he was a human being. 361 00:34:11,65.0674779 --> 00:34:12,115.0674779 That is only God. 362 00:34:12,554.4085472 --> 00:34:18,180.2403836 And I think Josephine is right, this is supernatural and cannot be taken for granted. 363 00:34:18,713.5747169 --> 00:34:23,950.2413836 In her introduction, Josephine said that she is now working with The PEACE Plan Rwanda. 364 00:34:24,280.2413836 --> 00:34:33,90.2403836 I asked her to share a little bit more about the work of this faith based organisation that was established in 2009 by different church councils in Rwanda. 365 00:34:33,585.5747169 --> 00:34:35,785.5747169 PEACE stands for Promote Reconciliation. 366 00:34:35,998.9080503 --> 00:34:39,888.9075503 Actually, we do some part of the work I was doing in World Vision. 367 00:34:39,928.9075503 --> 00:34:44,598.9075503 I do it even in The PEACE Plan on the promote reconciliation thing. 368 00:34:44,733.9075503 --> 00:34:49,172.9570294 We are training people to facilitate healing process still in the church. 369 00:34:49,282.9570294 --> 00:34:59,907.5138211 We equip servant leaders, we teach servant leadership, we have seminars, we have workshops, we work with leaders, church, private sector, government. 370 00:35:00,167.5148211 --> 00:35:04,667.5148211 We engage them in leadership trainings and conferences. 371 00:35:05,37.5148211 --> 00:35:06,927.5148211 But servant leadership, biblical. 372 00:35:06,964.1814878 --> 00:35:09,900.8481544 And group servant leaders assist the poor. 373 00:35:10,140.8481544 --> 00:35:14,474.1814878 We train the community member, but the church, it's the church, not us. 374 00:35:14,474.1814878 --> 00:35:15,494.1814878 We work through the church. 375 00:35:15,865.8481544 --> 00:35:21,479.1814878 We engage the church leaders to be visible in the community doing what I'm saying. 376 00:35:21,619.1814878 --> 00:35:32,512.5138211 So for Assist the Poor, the church helps community members to do some training in saving, they're making savings groups, business startups, all those. 377 00:35:32,542.5138211 --> 00:35:33,732.5138211 But they are church led. 378 00:35:33,925.8471544 --> 00:35:40,72.5138211 We work through the churches, access the poor care for the sick, and educate the next generation. 379 00:35:40,365.5320029 --> 00:35:46,42.0986696 Care for the sick, in the past there was a lot of work with the COVID. 380 00:35:46,92.1986696 --> 00:36:08,325.5330029 But today it's more about, we have started an initiative called Celebrate Recovery, helping people, especially young people, who are dealing with some habits, hang ups, and alcohol, drugs, all those for the church to create some safe space for those people so that they recover from those things. 381 00:36:08,825.5330029 --> 00:36:13,603.4861578 Educate the next generation, churches have early childhood programs. 382 00:36:14,162.2326123 --> 00:36:18,591.145858 So we help those churches having these, we call them ECDs. 383 00:36:18,791.2731308 --> 00:36:20,231.2731308 Yeah, so that is PEACE. 384 00:36:20,251.2731308 --> 00:36:22,281.2731308 That is ministry, actually. 385 00:36:22,414.6064641 --> 00:36:24,104.6054641 And it is biblical. 386 00:36:24,104.6064641 --> 00:36:25,934.6064641 It's what Jesus said, did. 387 00:36:26,74.6064641 --> 00:36:28,714.6064641 Jesus promoted reconciliation. 388 00:36:28,797.9397974 --> 00:36:30,397.9387974 Jesus equipped leaders. 389 00:36:30,677.9397974 --> 00:36:32,801.2731308 Jesus assisted the poor. 390 00:36:32,897.9397974 --> 00:36:34,337.4840683 Jesus healed the sick. 391 00:36:34,576.0387558 --> 00:36:37,266.0387558 Jesus said, let the children come to me. 392 00:36:37,441.0387558 --> 00:36:38,41.0387558 All that. 393 00:36:38,101.0387558 --> 00:36:40,717.7054224 So this is actually what we do. 394 00:36:40,867.7054224 --> 00:36:46,387.7054224 It is equipping churches to do that holistic transformation in the community. 395 00:36:46,521.0387558 --> 00:36:48,981.0387558 So, and we coach pastors also. 396 00:36:48,981.0387558 --> 00:36:52,731.0387558 We have coaching programs and we are a team of five. 397 00:36:52,771.0387558 --> 00:36:58,142.7054224 Each one was assigned a group of pastors and church leaders to coach in PEACE. 398 00:36:58,564.3720891 --> 00:37:01,624.3720891 And so those churches have what we call PEACE works. 399 00:37:01,644.3720891 --> 00:37:04,625.8043808 It's a long thing, the initiatives in the community. 400 00:37:04,832.4710474 --> 00:37:08,962.4690474 Because the church is not just to preach or to bring people in the church. 401 00:37:09,292.4700474 --> 00:37:12,562.4690474 Jesus said go, and preach the good news. 402 00:37:12,797.4700474 --> 00:37:18,724.1367141 So, we are encouraging the church to go and shine and be the salt in the community. 403 00:37:18,850.8033808 --> 00:37:21,980.8033808 We tell them, we want you to be needed. 404 00:37:22,154.1377141 --> 00:37:28,830.8033808 This is when you are going to preach and people will come to Christ because they see that they need you. 405 00:37:28,980.8043808 --> 00:37:30,720.8043808 You are being the salt and the light. 406 00:37:30,784.1377141 --> 00:37:39,680.8043808 And they are now going in the community, encouraging church members, ordinary members to reach out in the community through PEACE. 407 00:37:39,724.1377141 --> 00:37:42,504.1377141 Each one according to what their calling is. 408 00:37:42,584.1367141 --> 00:37:46,494.1377141 Whether it's in reconciliation, assisting the poor, care for the sick. 409 00:37:46,607.4700474 --> 00:37:52,594.1367141 But every gift in the church has to be to the service to minister in the community. 410 00:37:53,70.8033808 --> 00:37:56,870.8033808 And bring people to Christ through those missions. 411 00:37:57,392.2143968 --> 00:38:03,760.748959 If you want to find out more about the Peace Plan Rwanda, You can follow the link to their website in the podcast description. 412 00:38:04,517.1854782 --> 00:38:10,667.1854782 In exactly two weeks time, the 31st anniversary of the genocide in Rwanda will be commemorated. 413 00:38:10,957.1854782 --> 00:38:24,181.1854782 And this prospect made me wonder, what about Rwanda today? Hey, you know, without Jesus, how can people heal? Most of that happened with the help of the church and with the help of God. 414 00:38:24,537.8521449 --> 00:38:32,189.7095371 For example, this man and this lady, they came to Christ and they are church people, they are strong believers. 415 00:38:32,246.3762037 --> 00:38:37,716.3762037 And I can't say that today these processes happen again. 416 00:38:37,874.7095371 --> 00:38:39,994.7095371 It kind of stabilized. 417 00:38:40,184.7095371 --> 00:38:43,951.3767037 We are like any country, it's not like before. 418 00:38:43,971.3757037 --> 00:38:54,104.7100371 We stabilized and the church is a place of worship, the church is a place of many ministries, not only healing, but it's a normal church, if I can say. 419 00:38:54,451.3767037 --> 00:38:57,591.3767037 People have become a bit more resilient. 420 00:38:57,721.3767037 --> 00:39:04,674.7110371 Even the wounds, even the trauma has reduced because it's 30 years now. 421 00:39:04,781.3767037 --> 00:39:09,371.3777037 The children who were babies that time are now graduates. 422 00:39:09,411.3777037 --> 00:39:10,841.3777037 They have jobs, they work. 423 00:39:11,314.7110371 --> 00:39:19,211.679734 This time has really helped them to recover and we are no longer in the mood of 1990 something. 424 00:39:19,366.5170977 --> 00:39:21,266.5160977 It is a bit stable. 425 00:39:21,276.5160977 --> 00:39:24,256.5160977 We focus on developing ourselves. 426 00:39:24,366.5170977 --> 00:39:31,669.850431 We The church is doing worship, is doing discipleship, is doing ministries, doing evangelism. 427 00:39:31,713.1837643 --> 00:39:39,396.5160977 Like any church in this world, we are no longer focusing so much on the genocide and it's effect. 428 00:39:39,396.5160977 --> 00:39:42,46.5150977 We have kind of recovered from that. 429 00:39:42,56.5150977 --> 00:39:44,56.6615522 Of course, sin still exists. 430 00:39:44,56.6615522 --> 00:39:47,716.6615522 We are dealing with sin just like in any other countries. 431 00:39:47,883.3282189 --> 00:39:52,833.3282189 We can't say that there is so much trauma that the church, but except in April. 432 00:39:53,63.3282189 --> 00:40:08,858.3292189 In April, the church is, very much engaged in some workshop of healing and reconciliation, because during April the time of commemoration, there are some tough times that come back to the surface and you can see that there is some trauma. 433 00:40:08,944.9958856 --> 00:40:20,698.3282189 And the churches focus on healing and forgiveness but apart from the period of April, I think the church is doing what other churches do in other countries. 434 00:40:21,116.1778762 --> 00:40:23,856.1778762 As always, there is so much more to say. 435 00:40:24,236.1778762 --> 00:40:34,342.3069084 Such a sensitive topic can never be handled carefully enough and with all that has happened, we could never share too many stories of hope, healing and reconciliation. 436 00:40:34,725.4671988 --> 00:40:37,750.4674488 Please be encouraged to visit rwandanstories.org, 437 00:40:38,70.4674488 --> 00:40:41,400.4674488 and explore the collection of videos, photography and journalism. 438 00:40:41,977.1341154 --> 00:40:47,40.4674488 But now, to wrap it up, I asked Josephine to share a few words that are on her heart. 439 00:40:47,500.4674488 --> 00:40:55,860.3775178 Is there a question, an encouragement or a prayer request that she wants to share with you, the listener? I would ask a difficult question. 440 00:40:55,987.5963987 --> 00:40:57,687.5963987 We want to hear from you. 441 00:40:57,809.9224951 --> 00:41:29,935.690416 Where were you when all this happened? Where were you during genocide? Because this is a question that we normally ask to the world, why so much people were killed when the international community could see? Where were you? And where are you? Have you come and see? Have you come and minister with Rwandans? And I would also ask them, do you want to hear from us? Do you want us? Invite us! We have a story to tell the world. 442 00:41:30,172.3570826 --> 00:41:34,152.3570826 After this terrible thing, we have something to tell the world. 443 00:41:34,728.4768743 --> 00:41:35,718.4768743 Listen from us. 444 00:41:36,418.4768743 --> 00:41:45,993.9092376 The global church should be praying that the name of Jesus, the gospel goes to the ends of the world to reach where it has not reached. 445 00:41:46,273.4865431 --> 00:41:49,540.6350197 There are many, many unreached people, groups. 446 00:41:49,858.6062183 --> 00:41:54,359.4782834 The church should consider, take the message to the unreached people. 447 00:41:54,461.7337609 --> 00:41:55,301.7337609 And there are many. 448 00:41:55,395.0670942 --> 00:41:57,225.0670942 Be the salt and the light. 449 00:41:57,512.0535146 --> 00:42:00,102.0535146 Let the world see your good deeds. 450 00:42:00,550.8526038 --> 00:42:02,960.8516038 Let the world hear your good words. 451 00:42:03,338.1922542 --> 00:42:04,808.1922542 And come to Christ. 452 00:42:04,874.7168927 --> 00:42:06,434.7168927 Shine your light, Church. 453 00:42:06,853.0019548 --> 00:42:08,83.0009548 The world needs you. 454 00:42:13,485.6192421 --> 00:42:24,626.1804239 You have listened to the God on the Move podcast, which is part of the Lausanne movement's wider God on the Move initiative, where we want to share inspiring God stories from the global church with the global church. 455 00:42:25,146.1814239 --> 00:42:33,266.1804239 Through listening to what God is doing all around the world, we hope to encourage and challenge the global church to faithful obedience to the Great Commission. 456 00:42:33,602.8190613 --> 00:42:48,53.641753 So let's accelerate global mission together toward a vision for the gospel for every person, disciple-making churches for every people in place, Christ-like leaders in every church and sector, and kingdom impact in every sphere of society. 457 00:42:48,703.641753 --> 00:42:53,623.641753 If you enjoyed listening to this podcast, be sure to subscribe and follow us for more.