September 6, 2022 • 48 mins
Archie McEachern, Global Enterprise Leader & former VP at Nike
When I was a kid, I learned about fire safety. One of the visual frameworks adults presented to me was the “fire triangle”: the idea that for fire to exist, you had to have three ingredients: heat, oxygen, and fuel. Take one of these three things away, and you had NO fire. Well, just like fire needs certain conditions to thrive, business outcomes require specific ingredients too. Finding the right blend can be especially tricky when teammates are separated by time, geography, background, and language. So that’s why it’s been important for today’s guest to keep the following question in his mind:
How can deep connection and trust lead to a culture of innovation?
A conversation with Archie McEachern, on this episode of Lead With a Question.
Guest Bio:
Archie grew up in Kittery, Maine. a small, coastal town an hour north of Boston. He attended Ithaca College in Upstate, NY, and played collegiate basketball. He spent 28+ years at Nike, starting in a warehouse in Greenland, NH. He's had leadership experiences across multiple functions including sales, product creation, general management and merchandising. From 2009 to 2020 he spent the majority of my executive career in merchandising where he had the chance to lead teams in North America, Japan (Tokyo) and China (Shanghai). During that time, he lived with the family for 5 years in Asia (2012-2015 Tokyo), 2018-2020 (Shanghai).
Archie's current work includes a start-up company, 360 Hoops, which makes a 3-sided basket attached to one adjustable pool…patented design. He also works in an advisory capacity with a few smaller companies and/or individuals. He volunteered as a high school coach in Maine recently, which was one of the more rewarding experiences he's had. Best season the team had in 25 years (not due to him, in his opinion!) Finally, he's the lucky husband to his wife Bridget, and they have 2 great kids ages 20 and 17.
Get to know Archie on his LinkedIn Profile.---------
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
this is lead with a question.
I really make it a point to just sort of welcome folks in.
Um not that I need to be a mentor to everyone because I don't or didn't.
Um but I wanted to create an environment where people just felt they could bring their authentic self,
(00:26):
they could be comfortable um because again I did have a little bit of a secret sauce in the back of my mind.
Like if we create the right environment,
people will do their best work.
Hi,
I'm rob Callan,
we live in a time when people are seeing that the old way of doing business is broken and that leading into the future requires something new,
(00:53):
a deeper focus on humanity,
the courage to let go of power and ego,
a desire to nurture the conditions for co creation and the bravery,
not to have all the answers on this show.
I along with my friends chris Deaver and Ian clawson connect with guests who embody these principles and whether household names or not they've shattered the status quo,
(01:19):
often as misfits to shape the future with others and achieve miraculous things in work and life.
When I was a kid,
I learned about fire safety and one of the visual frameworks adults presented to me was the fire triangle.
The idea that for fire to exist,
you had to have three ingredients,
heat,
(01:39):
oxygen and fuel,
take one of these three things away and you had no fire Well just like fire needs certain conditions to thrive business outcomes require specific ingredients to finding the right blend can be especially tricky when teammates are separated by time,
geography,
background and language.
(02:00):
So that's why it's been important for today's guest to keep the following question in mind.
How can deep connection and trust lead to a culture of innovation,
a conversation with Archie McEachern on this episode of lead with a question.
(02:29):
Some of the things that I really stand for and and and I use as my principles are filters are number one,
just the ability to really just be an open person and be open to new thinking,
new ideas,
not necessarily married um to my point of view,
although I'm certainly someone who brings a point of view.
(02:51):
Um and I think a lot of that I attribute to the house I grew up in,
my father was was one of eight and he grew up extremely,
extremely poor.
Uh and so education became a priority for him and his brothers and sisters and then I think that just kind of passed along.
So I sort of grew up in a household where you know learning and discussing what was going on in the world etcetera.
(03:14):
Was was a really active part of my childhood.
So I think that was that was one component and then the other component is just playing a lot of team sports where you're constantly like working in unison with other people to deliver a result.
Um and that was sort of that was an interesting childhood and so I think that's really kind of shaped my openness and willingness to um it's kind of partner and collaborate with people and I think that's a huge collaboration is a huge principle of mine,
(03:44):
I think a couple other things that I really,
I really try to stand for is just being curious uh as a person um and again,
I can attribute that a little bit to my background um just always,
you know,
seeking that it's it's okay to work at your craft.
Uh you know,
I came up through the game of basketball and I wasn't by any stretch,
(04:06):
any kind of like accomplished player,
I did play in college,
but a very small college,
it was a great experience and but the the industry of it,
it's always like,
hey,
are you working on your game?
Like for me,
I was always very open to sort of working on,
you know,
just getting better at the things I did,
So I think curiosity,
collaboration and just,
you know,
(04:27):
um and then sort of a mind a growth mindset is the other thing that I think when I think of experiences now or or relationships I have are things I'm getting into?
Like,
am I around people that that also believe in and like,
hey there's gonna be always be challenges,
but how do we move things forward?
(04:47):
How do we maybe take direction and shape it in a way that can really work um for whatever purpose we're sort of going after.
So I think those,
those,
those are some,
some sort of core principles that,
that really um define how I think and how I lead and how I engage with people awesome Archie.
(05:07):
Um 11 question I have for you is,
you know,
chris brought up this notion of,
of a misfit.
It's something that we find as a unifying front for this work that we're engaged in.
It's,
it's one of these things that we can all identify with,
what might your misfit story be in terms of,
you know,
your childhood or in terms of,
(05:29):
you know,
early career type of storyline.
Yeah,
I mean,
I grew up corporately in an era kind of the early nineties into,
into 2020 at least formally in a,
in a big company like Nike where,
you know,
there was so much opportunity,
um there were specialists and then there were people that were sort of,
(05:53):
you know,
brought a lot of learning agility and the ability to kind of,
to move around into different functional groups.
I would say,
you know,
one of the things that,
that I recognized right away,
I may not be the deepest in any one particular area.
Um,
but I think what I,
what I kind of developed,
you know,
I don't know,
it was so much a misfit or it was just a desire like,
(06:16):
hey,
I want to learn a lot about a lot of things and so when I reflect back,
I was able to live internationally in a couple of different countries in ASia and work in different functions,
work on the commercial side of the business or work on the creative side of the business,
actually making products.
Um,
or work in what we,
we called merchandizing was a little bit of a combination of both.
(06:40):
So,
um,
I was able to,
you know,
head into some different,
and I would even say disruptive whether it was cultures or ways of working that maybe my background wasn't super versed in,
but I knew enough,
um,
to,
to kind of take what I,
what I was capable of and and let that really kind of elevate and then also at the same time recognize,
(07:05):
hey,
I need to go deeper in a few areas as I go.
Um,
whether that's through mentorship or just sheer learning or experience,
um,
to make sure I sort of balance things out.
So,
um,
I kind of recognized early on like,
hey,
I want to do different things,
which is,
which is actually a really good thing.
It's also a challenge in that in a lot of cases you walk,
(07:26):
you work in groups where there's a lot of specialists.
Um,
so I had to,
you know,
really,
what do I bring to the table and then what can I learn why I'm there even even later in my career where I was a little bit more of a seasoned leader being very comfortable not knowing,
um and and and the more you did it actually,
(07:47):
the more comfortable you became,
um so I think that was,
that was,
you know,
a little bit of my story of,
of just having a desire to,
to do different things,
but at the same token,
um knowing that um being comfortable with maybe not knowing and and again,
as you do that,
it just kinda,
it kinda accelerates,
(08:08):
so you just take on more challenges like that,
right?
Uh you know,
there's a phrase we,
we use,
we call it experiment with experience,
I think that's the right kind of mindset,
that is needed to be able to connect the dots really,
and,
you know,
I think a lot of society is focused on the expert model,
(08:30):
the specialist that you described Malcolm Gladwell talks about,
you know,
the 10,000 hour approach,
um but there's something to be said about,
you know,
not just following your passion,
but we like to refer to it as following your passions,
you know,
the things that might interest you,
you know,
that type of curiosity,
you're tapping into,
um you know,
(08:50):
that could bring about a unique set of circumstances where you contribute to the world just by exploring that pathway or those pathways,
right?
So,
yeah,
there's,
there's great value and being a general list,
so to speak,
but,
you know,
pursuing a couple of deep pathways,
I think is healthy and getting good at certain baselines,
(09:11):
right?
Yeah.
I mean,
I think there's a baseline that we that you that you have to have but I do think especially now more than ever where there's so many interdependencies,
especially in business,
the ability to understand what everyone in the room is thinking or feeling and and knowing where maybe you need to head and being able to connect the dots or the pieces or the groups on how to do that.
(09:41):
I think that's a that's a skill set in itself and in a world of specialists At times,
I think sometimes you see you can see less and less of that.
So I was very fortunate in that I've got,
you know that I often heard it referred to as putting tools in the toolbox,
I got a chance to to put some tools in the toolbox.
(10:01):
I mean if you'd asked me in in 2011 did I know anything about the yen to dollar ratio,
I would have said no,
but in 2012 when I was sitting in Tokyo and I was trying to understand pricing in the marketplace.
You know,
I,
I started to learn about the value of different currencies and how that impacts how how products are priced and all those kind of things.
(10:23):
Um and again it's it's learn herbal behavior as long as you're given an opportunity to learn and you have an openness as well uh to want to want to learn.
Yeah.
And that that approach,
it's,
you know,
especially over the past decades could be considered countercultural right for a leader to be open in that collective sense,
(10:46):
that collaborative sense and it's vulnerable.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And then,
I mean granted your Nike and there's probably culture of sport,
right?
A team,
right?
Sense of sensibility.
Um and you know,
but it sounds like,
you know,
you that's been something you really drawn strength upon,
(11:06):
which is,
you know,
seeing this kind of open or fluid collaborative culture and building that around you.
Um that's,
you know,
uh we believe in the same thing.
We believe that's the future too as well as highlights,
right?
Of of of the past,
right?
We'd say,
well,
let's keep replaying that.
It's so good.
(11:26):
Right?
Um like that that wiggins jam against doc doc chick the other day.
I think I've seen a plug for the NBA playoffs.
Yeah.
(11:47):
So yeah,
so like I'm curious to,
you know,
just wow being in that kind of special setting,
uh,
you know,
culturally,
you know,
Nike in general and then just also um international.
What were some kind of highlight moments for you right?
Where you felt like,
wow,
this is something like really just kind of peak moment,
(12:09):
right?
That was something really special.
Well maybe I'll share maybe two examples um that are are very,
very different.
Um and and it's funny,
um you know,
when I first started Nike,
of course the first thing you think about is the amazing brand that it is and it's an incredible brand and I started in the early nineties,
(12:29):
so imagine the heyday of,
of Michael Jordan and,
and uh bo Jackson and and the,
the,
the fab fab five and,
and for me,
I actually started in Greenland,
new Hampshire and it is a ship receiver in the back of the warehouse,
it was a combination customer service warehouse and distribution warehouse.
(12:50):
We had a little employee store and I worked in the back and I would come to work,
you know,
fresh out of college every day and and and a tank top and,
and you know,
got got packages out the door.
And it was funny because within the first week I knew this was a place I wanted to really see through and be a part of and the reason I say that it was the people and ultimately the people become the culture and to see these leaders.
(13:25):
Um and I was just so,
and,
and maybe it was,
hey,
I was a college athlete and I've always really kind of taken to that,
but to see uh the amount of leadership,
the amount of care and the amount of pride in those groups to different groups because you sort of had a kind of an inside sales group,
customer service group and then a warehouse group.
(13:46):
And it was funny,
I was sitting in um true story,
I was in in,
in shanghai.
Um,
a few years prior to leaving Nike waiting in a Starbucks line at seven a.m. Before going up into the the office tower and I hear this accent and it's,
and I said to the woman ordering coffee,
I was like wow,
(14:07):
it's got to be massachusetts or new Hampshire and she said new Hampshire and she looked at me and she,
her name is lisa Fortier so she ever hears that she'll get a kick that I mentioned her name,
she's a,
she's a specialist in warehousing and I.
T.
And warehouse operations and she had been out to,
she flies around the world really to help different situations that Mikey has and we just sort of embraced and had a hug and it was just so interesting to see,
(14:33):
here we are,
you know,
at that point maybe 27 years later and reconnected and I think it's just that the power of people and I was very fortunate to see that early on you accelerate back,
you accelerate forward I should say in my career and I just was,
you know,
just had some really interesting experiences sitting in working with groups,
(14:56):
especially in Japan,
I would say,
um,
where it's such a foreign country.
I mean it's the lowest immigration in the world.
Um,
unlike china like english is actually,
it's,
it's a lot more scarce even in the office environment.
So there's a lot of just cultural norm and communication,
um,
opportunities or challenges depending how you look at it and to be able to sit there after the fact and,
(15:20):
and and be with those with those with the team over there and reflect on how you made a difference and and more importantly you made a connection um that to me was just was everything and it just kind of kind of showed what the power of just being authentic with folks and and and really being in the moment can can do for you.
So I think those are two similar stories but different,
(15:42):
but it was sort of at the beginning and a little bit more towards the end of my career and just very reflective moments where I,
I realized how lucky I was to have been given some unique opportunities.
But the same token I was,
I was also willing to to kind of embrace that and and take on those challenges.
That's a really cool kind of full circle storytelling there,
(16:05):
you know,
where you,
you met your co worker 20 years later,
that's really cool.
Um tell us about some of the challenges culturally in working in Asia,
you know,
you have the Nike workplace culture,
you know,
which is very iconic.
It sounds like such a rewarding experience for you personally and the teams,
(16:26):
you've been a part of how did that translate the workplace culture,
but also being in these other diverse cultures maybe go into that a little bit for us.
You know,
what's really interesting about that is I think the personal transformation that you have when you live in a country that's not your,
(16:46):
your native,
your own is the biggest transformation you have.
Um,
and then that in,
in,
in turn starts to inform what happens in the work environment.
Um,
and you know,
I could go on and on about different stories.
Um,
but just learning the language.
Um,
one of the funny one of my personally funny stories is um,
(17:10):
my,
I coached sports in Japan.
My son was in the fifth through seventh grade.
We're over there.
My daughter was second or fifth grade.
So I coached his American football team.
We would play other Japanese teams and then there was some military bases where we'd see other American kids.
And so this was the school was maybe 45 miles or so away from,
(17:34):
there was more in the suburbs show food as the suburbs of Tokyo.
And so um,
rather than take a train,
which would take just in terms of connections,
it would take a long time.
We actually got a used car and so you know,
I got a permit,
but then after a year you actually had to take the japanese driver's test and um,
(17:54):
it was very common for folks to,
you know,
to not pass.
And of course my wife passes the first time,
I don't think she drove more than twice all year and she passes.
Um But on on on turn number two I was able to,
I was able to knock it out but just to be able to go in there and it wasn't a written test,
it was it was an actual and structural driving test and there was a course and there were certain things you had to do but just to be able to kind of put that all together with frankly no english being spoken.
(18:25):
Um I just thought it was a really interesting uh you know,
demonstration of just this is what you're going through.
So like even going initially going to buy things,
grocery stores,
language barriers,
cultural norms.
Um all of that same thing in china um a little bit different um china was much more intense I would say just because shanghai is such a big city.
(18:50):
Tokyo is massive too,
but it's a little bit more spread out and sort of um not quite as high.
I mean shanghai is just massive if you feel like you're sort of the epicenter of the world,
there's so much going on there and this is of course all pre covid um But I think just your daily sort of,
okay,
(19:11):
I'm getting to the office,
my routine is completely altered.
Um Maybe where I'm a big morning exercise person maybe where I do that is is shaped completely differently,
what am I eating.
Um all those things,
all the things you don't even think about uh in our,
in our culture and in our country,
all of a sudden that is like super top of mine.
(19:32):
Um,
but the more comfortable you become,
and the more open to what I did learn about myself is I started to become much more open to things that weren't exactly what I,
what I,
how I would do it or maybe it's a little bit different from something and I started to not get uncomfortable about that,
(19:52):
I started to become much more comfortable.
Um and,
and and then all of a sudden you start to thrive in okay,
like this is totally different.
What a unique experience I started to become far less reliant on.
Um of course technology helps too.
So now,
all of a sudden,
you know,
I'm getting,
you know,
(20:12):
I'm living on ESPN or what have you,
but like I wasn't all caught up in.
All right,
the games are on saturday because frankly it's the saturday games were on sunday and the NFL was monday when you were at the office.
So um just a lot of things you sort of learn to,
to prioritize and filter what,
what was really most important.
Um,
and then as a result,
(20:33):
I I think you kind of bring your best self uh,
to the office and you and just the whole notion of being curious,
I mean,
certainly working for a brand,
like Nike would center you when you go through the office doors because you're you know you've got a you're all kind of laddering up to common strategy and and and where you want to take the brand.
But but how you did that every day was was very unique.
(20:55):
But you know early on I I would say I would have had challenges like anyone else I would say as I grew through that though it became very very very comfortable.
Um And and one thing chris we we we spoke to earlier and I failed to mention and I just will now because I feel like I um I I do want to do is um another sort of principle of mine that I learned very much firsthand and in all these experiences I'm sharing with you it's just the power of diverse teams um and its diverse teams and it's inclusive teams and ultimately empower teams.
(21:33):
Um And I learned that firsthand and I was I was working in the U.
S.
And I certainly learned it um Working overseas and diversity across all dimensions.
Um For sure and I think diversity of experience was just a really really big one for me being open to um bringing people into groups that maybe you wouldn't have traditionally thought would have made the most sense.
(21:58):
I think over time I learned it was such an asset and frankly it's a business advantage.
Um Not only is the right thing to do but it's it's it's a clear demonstrated upside and how you approach things because you're not all thinking about things necessarily the same way you're getting all these different points of view,
which is really,
really powerful.
So I think that for me that all sort of ian kind of ties back and circles back,
(22:21):
but that's,
you know,
it's a little bit of of of kind of how I feel both in terms of approaching um you know,
some of those areas where I may have stumbled,
but then over time,
just really kind of embracing the stumble,
Archie,
I love that story um because I'm hearing parallels between,
(22:45):
you know,
your experience as an expat trying to learn different languages,
customs,
cultures,
hoping to be kind of accepted into these new teams so that you can effectively contribute,
so that your literal voice and your words can be heard by the teams,
Do you feel like that process of progressively trying to sort of be welcomed in?
(23:10):
Um also affected the way even,
you know,
when you're working with with a team that seems to be,
you know,
similar in many ways,
has that heightened your awareness of,
you know,
different ways in which it could be helpful to,
to help welcome people in no question and um I was very,
(23:32):
very blessed in my working career that I had several mentors or both formally and informally,
or people that I just had conversations with that were so gracious in paying things forward in providing insight and and sort of opening up my mind to things,
(23:54):
I mean I was blessed and and so as a result for myself,
um I when new people come into the group,
um I really make it a point to just sort of welcome folks in.
Um not that I need to be a mentor to everyone because I don't or didn't,
um but I wanted to create an environment where where people just felt they could bring their authentic self,
(24:19):
they could be comfortable.
Um because again,
I did have a little bit of the secret sauce in the back of my mind,
like if we create the right environment,
people will do their best work.
And a lot of that I learned um too early on working in product creation at Nike,
where you're working with creatives and you want to make sure that they're,
(24:40):
they have unique talents and and there and then how do you bring sort of the consumer and the marketplace and trend into that?
Um so I learned about the imp importance of environment.
Um and I liked,
you know,
I started to kind of,
you know,
try to bring that everywhere I went where no matter what type of group I was working with or in the environment or at least a tone that I set was a tone of collaboration.
(25:05):
Um people coming together and sharing.
That's just one of the bigger things that I think I brought to the table and and kind of along those lines.
Um and maybe specifically to your question or excuse me,
rob,
it's I think any time you put yourself out there in front of your team,
that vulnerability,
about trying to learn something or,
(25:29):
you know,
giving it your your your best try and and I think,
I think the teams have an incredible admiration for that.
Um you know,
I think you can I'm just I think when I'm I used to say when I'm when I'm done,
sort of expressing that sincere interest in trying to grow,
(25:51):
then this wouldn't have been the place for me.
And I think um that's just how I'm built even today,
whether I was volunteering this past winter with a high school basketball team here and in maine or working in the startup environment that I'm in now,
which is just a tiny team.
Um just that sort of how do we do things better?
(26:12):
How do I learn?
Just being a kind of a lifelong learner.
It's just a lot of what is built within me and it's just how I operate,
um because the,
you know,
this is really overused,
but it's it's so true and I put this on my Children a lot as well,
but like the journey is everything,
(26:32):
it's less around what happens as the result,
the game the win,
the the product you built the number you hit.
I mean while I'm not saying that's not important,
but like the journey of growing to deliver something that's that's where all the gold is and that's what you reflect back on.
It's less about you got there and it's kind of how you got there.
(26:55):
So yeah,
a lot of the themes that you're you're highlighting um makes me think,
you know,
there's the best leaders I've ever met right at Apple other places that I've talked to,
if you ask them,
um how do they consider themselves,
like what's their role and they'll say a coach,
(27:17):
right?
And the elements that you're describing are all what a what a great coach does.
Yeah,
I mean,
I think the with those folks sharing with you in those different cultures about being a coach I think is spot on.
I mean if you think about,
especially in bigger organizations as you grow in your career,
(27:40):
um and you take on more responsibility,
maybe it's a bigger team.
Um there's more complexity that you're leading.
You can't do it all.
And and especially as you make that sort of a lot of people make that transition from sort of an individual contributor,
even a high level one to more of a group lee leader or enterprise leader,
(28:01):
um you just can't do it all yourself,
nor should you.
So I think that,
you know,
for me,
I think the great leaders are just that they're able to learn how to inspire,
um,
how to create clarity,
um how to celebrate execution as well.
(28:22):
Um and they're able to kind of package that all up together.
Um and that's through,
you know,
delegation is through empowerment,
um shaping the dynamics of that team,
understanding what,
you know,
maybe that,
that function or organization needed at the time.
Um and I think that's a big part of what what leaders do,
(28:43):
I mean certainly strategy comes into that no question and clarity of vision is everything.
Um but after that,
how you coach and mentor and shape people is is super important.
Um and I would,
and once again,
I was very blessed at different stages in my career,
literally from the first time I walked in the door uh to to really,
(29:05):
even even to this day,
um I had great people who,
who did that for me and and I felt a responsibility uh to kind of pay that forward and do that for the next generation.
Um I got that in sport and I certainly got that in business.
Yeah.
One of the things you touched on two earlier was mentioned about,
you know,
kind of not not letting failure kind of stumble us or you talk about growth mindset to write and that's definitely,
(29:34):
you know,
something a coach has in mind right there,
you're gonna have some,
you know,
sometimes you just have losses in the loss column,
but the focus is the long term,
right the journey as you said,
Yeah,
I think a story that sort of jumps out,
um and it happened a while back some,
I'm very comfortable sharing is um,
(29:55):
when I was the head of basketball footwear at Nike,
uh and this is 2008 ish zone,
um the business was not in a great place.
Um the trends were around lifestyle.
I was heading up more of the performance,
sort of new creation area and and a lot of the sales at retail were,
(30:16):
and or what they would define as like classic products.
So,
um,
we we knew things were difficult and,
you know,
in a company,
you can,
you can certainly feel the pressure and myself being the leader of the group.
I could,
I could feel it,
I could certainly feel it quite a bit.
And um,
we really,
(30:36):
what we ended up doing this is really pre Beijing olympics 2008 as we create a product called the Hyper Dunk and and it ended up being an incredibly successful product that,
that that team went on,
even as I left product creation and went into sort of general management merchandizing,
sort of,
that that product sort of lived on.
(30:57):
And then ultimately that product went away,
but a lot of those principles lived on around being lighter,
more responsive.
Um and you could see it cascade through the line,
but at the time,
I would,
I'll tell you the learnings were,
so you're in a tough business.
Um and you know,
what's the number one thing,
you start with,
its,
its focus,
like what are you trying,
(31:19):
what are you trying to,
to deliver and why are you trying to deliver it?
And what do you want people to feel once you deliver it?
And so we really just kind of got back and that was,
you know,
even for myself,
like I'm like,
wait a second here,
we used to have this many models and now we have this model and but yeah,
we applied incredible focus and we built something super special and,
and the product was a huge success,
(31:41):
one of the olympics by,
you know,
several,
the entire US the Redeem team,
I think um that group,
it was just,
it was amazing,
it was an amazing experience to see a group kind of go all in,
like really sort of build out a product journey or a story where you were all in and I think it's just incredibly exciting.
(32:06):
Um the flip side I would tell you now is in my current role within 3 60 hoops,
we're building,
we're taking an idea that at one point was,
was frankly a sketch or an idea and we're,
this is pre revenue,
I came into the team and we're building a three dimensional product and there's a lot of just interdependencies and suppliers and you know,
(32:31):
all this,
and just to be able to then kind of know that like,
hey,
before we go out and we create events and we market this and we do that and hire people and do all these different things.
The number one thing we've got to do is let's get our experience,
let's get our product experience right first,
so that we've got some something to build with and from,
(32:53):
and it's just been a good learning that's kinda cascaded into this and you know,
when you're in,
you know,
when you're in an environment that's actually a startup and you know,
capital is tight and resources are precious um that's a whole different level of,
you know,
how do you create focus and how do you,
how do you just kind of move forward in a really strategic way and in both cases um creating something really brilliant was,
(33:19):
was,
was was great to see that's a great story,
very inspiring,
especially coming back,
not necessarily from the brink,
but definitely coming from a place that you know,
the business was not where you wanted it to be and then to see that that comeback is,
is awesome,
especially on such a global scale.
I I imagine Archie that you know,
(33:41):
working your way up like you did in Nike in the warehouse in a temp position,
I'm sure that lended a great deal of empathy throughout your career,
you know,
being able to connect with people of all walks of life at any position um and it's rare,
I mean when I was in health care,
the most effective managers from a nursing standpoint,
(34:04):
started off as housekeepers or you know,
certified AIDS because they had a deep respect for what it takes to do,
the little things that kinda add up.
And I imagine that's got to be very similar to,
you know,
what you're describing to us with your experience,
um going back to the hyper dunk scenario.
(34:26):
Um I think that you pointed out a great challenge that you guys overcame as a team.
And it sounds like there was a lot of collaboration,
the tension was there,
the pressure was there,
what are some of those elements,
you know,
as a leader,
looking at your team and trying to influence,
you know,
(34:47):
those conditions,
What are some of those things that you can extract from that experience that were key to co creative elements uh with that environment that you guys dealt with back then.
Yeah,
and I think it's,
this plays out across the board uh every day for leaders everywhere.
I think,
(35:08):
you know,
the number one thing is at least what I took away from it was while I was leading that team,
um I didn't necessarily have to be right,
it didn't have to be my idea.
Um I think what I took away is like creating conditions where the talent on that team could bring their best self and be open to different ideas.
(35:36):
Um and I think,
you know,
sometimes you gotta kind of be back pushed up against the wall a little bit to really have that like fully come to to be,
but I think for leaders,
like creating conditions,
I mean a lot of times,
you know,
it's easy to,
you know,
(35:57):
I think you're listening,
think you're taking it in,
but really you kind of know where you want to go and to some degree,
you do have to know where you want to go,
but you also have to be really open to feedback and input um from folks,
especially folks,
especially in a situation where you're talking about bringing different skills or functions um or ideas to a certain project um which was very common in my prior work,
(36:25):
it's common in my current work,
you're bringing people with varied skill sets,
so you,
you want to respect what they bring,
you want to listen for and be open to it.
And I think that was one of the things I learned right away like and I think ultimately that all adds up to what I would call a culture of innovation and which I think the great brands,
(36:48):
the great brands are,
you know,
they let innovation and problem solving and being a futurist dr uh what they do.
Um and I think that's just a behavior as a leader,
you need to model um Another big takeaway I had kind of related um to that,
but probably related to our earlier conversation is just,
(37:11):
you know,
modeling the behavior you want to see the team exhibit is everything and,
and it's really interesting like in today's um world.
So I spent,
I spent,
I had a chance for this year.
I think I referenced,
I coached a high school basketball team will the prior winter.
(37:32):
I had volunteered at Lewis and Clark College.
So I did a little around the college thing and a little bit of high school things,
which really fun to kind of be back in a zone where it's sports and coaching and not just business and coaching,
although I enjoy both.
Um,
but one thing is for sure in athletics,
especially college athletics,
I have a son who plays at a small college himself and you're seeing it firsthand is I think more than ever the employees or the players are evaluating the coaches or the leadership as much as the leadership or the coaches are evaluating the employees or,
(38:13):
or the players and I'm not quite sure that leaders and coaches fully understand that that now and if you're,
if you're younger,
it's probably from a mindset shift perspective,
it may either be easier.
Um,
just because you're more used to that culture.
But I think what I see in a lot of cases is,
(38:35):
and you know,
there's a lot of noise right now and in sports and in collegiate sports and I'm sort of a junkie and both football and college,
I followed it pretty intensely around transfer portal and name image likeness where athletes now can be recognized for their contribution,
which I fully support.
Um,
but I think,
you know,
and I've said this to a lot of friends that I have in coaching because I do have quite a few,
(39:00):
like now more than ever,
the number one thing you need to have with your athletes and ultimately I think your employees is you need to be connected Because connection equals value.
And to use a sports analogy how you're connected to say in basketball,
your 13th person,
um,
say versus your first person,
(39:21):
it could be totally different.
The first person might be and I mean like your top athlete or top player might be totally different,
but if you're not connected to the whole group at some level,
both as a team and individually,
it's hard to rally everybody and I think that is the opportunity now in leadership is connection and,
(39:44):
and it takes many different shapes.
It takes many different forms.
It is about being authentic yourself and it's about being curious and asking questions like,
you know,
what is going on?
How do you feel,
are you getting everything out of this experience that you want?
How can I help you get better?
How can I help you reach your goals?
(40:04):
And I think now more than ever,
like that's it and um,
I think teams and coaches,
uh,
and businesses that they kind of use that,
I know,
that's a lot softer,
but that use that as a strategy will benefit immensely immensely as they go forward?
Yeah,
you're like describing this kind of co creative relationship,
(40:27):
right?
And it's this shift,
right?
That's happened.
And,
you know,
we were always curious to with this rising generation or even folks in the workplace that feel there's been a lot of change,
right?
People,
you know,
probably more than,
you know,
in our lifetimes,
(40:48):
right?
Um in general,
and then in the business world to uh,
you know,
everybody working,
you know,
or at least for a time,
you know,
and,
and sometimes it's hybrid now,
but it's on zoom or more of these calls and,
you know,
the way that work happens,
right?
The rhythm is shifted.
And so that's just kind of one example.
(41:09):
But to your point,
you know,
for these people,
you know,
that are wondering,
well,
how do I lean in,
Right.
How do I lean into the future?
And you've answered a lot of this already,
right?
You just said it,
it's like,
hey,
there's this collaborative relationship and it's about connection,
right?
And then for them right there,
employee that wants to feel like a co creator and maybe they're in an environment where it's,
(41:35):
you know,
um that culture hasn't shifted yet,
but maybe those existential elements are shaking its foundation and those leaders are realizing they've gotta move,
right,
or or become obsolete,
but what can people do,
right?
To be brave in that in the ways maybe some of you,
what you described or what would you say,
(41:55):
What kind of advice would you share with them?
Well,
I'd say maybe a couple of things.
One I would say the whole notion of modeling the behavior you want is huge.
So if you as the leader um can model that if they can see you trying to bring people together,
see you being vulnerable,
see you brainstorming,
(42:16):
seeing you being very open to pursuing maybe alternative paths.
Um what have you?
I think that goes a long,
long way.
Um getting back to the connection part,
you know,
once you've established connection,
the byproduct of that is trust and once you have trust,
(42:39):
the sky's the limit because when you have trust as an athlete,
and if you're a coach,
you can coach hard,
you can coach different.
Nobody personalize is it because you have trust?
And I think in the business environment,
once you've established that trust,
people are much more comfortable,
(42:59):
like,
okay,
I'm gonna put myself out there,
I'm gonna throw my idea in,
I know that if I do that,
um even if the room maybe moves in a different direction,
uh there,
there aren't consequences for it because I have this connection,
I have this trust,
I have this relationship,
I have this confidence.
(43:20):
Um and and the person that's really helping lead this,
that will happen.
I think the other thing you can do related to that both points as a leader is as people put themselves out there because,
you know,
it's hard.
Um and there's so many different working styles,
like you have introverts and extroverts,
I was a little bit more on the extroverted side,
um you probably expect um you know,
(43:44):
at times,
maybe too much so,
um but I learned how to work with,
how do you bring the best out of an introvert who has amazing ideas.
So I I would go into meetings knowing a little bit of the personality makeup of my teams and or the teams I was working with and know like,
hey,
there's some people,
I might actually have to bring them along,
(44:05):
or I might talk to them ahead of time and say,
hey look,
I would love for you to share something around X.
Um and then,
and then of course when people do put themselves out there,
you know,
applauding that um recognizing that encouraging that um is everything and it's really hard,
(44:26):
um there's so much pressure to be right,
uh and some companies are so much pressure to grow.
Um and you know,
it can feel like there's not a lot of room to to be wrong or to experiment or to edit or evolve or morph,
but there is,
there really is,
(44:47):
and I think that's where where the real growth comes,
so I think as a leader,
a modeling it be being really positive about others that do it,
see creating an environment um where that can happen and and then I think the last point is just learning,
you know,
how does your style connect with everyone,
you know,
(45:07):
it may,
it may really work for some folks,
it may work less for others um and believe me,
I haven't always done it right?
No,
no question about it.
And so I've learned through that and how to sort of cater my style at times in different ways uh to make sure I'm connected,
but I,
the one,
the only other thing I might add that I think is always I really appreciated by people and by teams is the clearer the expectation,
(45:38):
the clearer the brief,
so to speak,
the clearer the vision on what we're trying to accomplish the better sort of end result.
So,
I think as a leader,
your clarity of vision is super important,
so if you're up there and you're kind of moving in and out and things,
you know,
don't add up,
(46:00):
I think that's also where I think you've got to really understand that people are trying to follow you um and if your vision is clear and and people feel connected,
then ultimately you are going to build followership and people are,
are they're gonna okay?
I understand,
I mean there's so much change in the workplace to your point chris like,
(46:23):
so creating,
like simple in sort of clear directives or not even directives,
but in some cases maybe directives or just visioning statements about what you're trying to do is everything because think about it,
we're working differently,
we're working remotely um you know,
we're working in some cases across different cultures or what have you,
(46:45):
there are people working together for the last couple of years that have never met in person and so clarity and simplicity.
I think now more than ever is like super important.
This episode of lead with the Question was produced by me,
(47:05):
rob calen with support from my co hosts and Brave core founders,
chris Deaver and Ian clawson.
The music you heard was composed by Ian as part of another project he's involved in called Moon Machine,
Dave Arcade created our podcast Cover Art special.
Thanks to Archie for providing a vicarious glimpse into the principles that have guided him in his leadership journey.
(47:29):
Also,
we really appreciate you for taking the time to co create these conversations with us,
especially when there are so many other things you could be doing,
if you found any value at all in these episodes,
could you do a favor,
leave us a rating even a review wherever you're listening right now.
It takes about two minutes and helps others discover the show as well.
(47:50):
If you want to learn more about the work we're doing at Brave Core,
you can check out our website at Brave Core dot c o The lead with a question podcast is a production of Brave Core LLC thanks for being with us.
this is lead with a question.
I really make it a point to just sort of welcome folks in.
Um not that I need to be a mentor to everyone because I don't or didn't.
Um but I wanted to create an environment where people just felt they could bring their authentic self,
(00:26):
they could be comfortable um because again I did have a little bit of a secret sauce in the back of my mind.
Like if we create the right environment,
people will do their best work.
Hi,
I'm rob Callan,
we live in a time when people are seeing that the old way of doing business is broken and that leading into the future requires something new,
(00:53):
a deeper focus on humanity,
the courage to let go of power and ego,
a desire to nurture the conditions for co creation and the bravery,
not to have all the answers on this show.
I along with my friends chris Deaver and Ian clawson connect with guests who embody these principles and whether household names or not they've shattered the status quo,
(01:19):
often as misfits to shape the future with others and achieve miraculous things in work and life.
When I was a kid,
I learned about fire safety and one of the visual frameworks adults presented to me was the fire triangle.
The idea that for fire to exist,
you had to have three ingredients,
heat,
(01:39):
oxygen and fuel,
take one of these three things away and you had no fire Well just like fire needs certain conditions to thrive business outcomes require specific ingredients to finding the right blend can be especially tricky when teammates are separated by time,
geography,
background and language.
(02:00):
So that's why it's been important for today's guest to keep the following question in mind.
How can deep connection and trust lead to a culture of innovation,
a conversation with Archie McEachern on this episode of lead with a question.
(02:29):
Some of the things that I really stand for and and and I use as my principles are filters are number one,
just the ability to really just be an open person and be open to new thinking,
new ideas,
not necessarily married um to my point of view,
although I'm certainly someone who brings a point of view.
(02:51):
Um and I think a lot of that I attribute to the house I grew up in,
my father was was one of eight and he grew up extremely,
extremely poor.
Uh and so education became a priority for him and his brothers and sisters and then I think that just kind of passed along.
So I sort of grew up in a household where you know learning and discussing what was going on in the world etcetera.
(03:14):
Was was a really active part of my childhood.
So I think that was that was one component and then the other component is just playing a lot of team sports where you're constantly like working in unison with other people to deliver a result.
Um and that was sort of that was an interesting childhood and so I think that's really kind of shaped my openness and willingness to um it's kind of partner and collaborate with people and I think that's a huge collaboration is a huge principle of mine,
(03:44):
I think a couple other things that I really,
I really try to stand for is just being curious uh as a person um and again,
I can attribute that a little bit to my background um just always,
you know,
seeking that it's it's okay to work at your craft.
Uh you know,
I came up through the game of basketball and I wasn't by any stretch,
(04:06):
any kind of like accomplished player,
I did play in college,
but a very small college,
it was a great experience and but the the industry of it,
it's always like,
hey,
are you working on your game?
Like for me,
I was always very open to sort of working on,
you know,
just getting better at the things I did,
So I think curiosity,
collaboration and just,
you know,
(04:27):
um and then sort of a mind a growth mindset is the other thing that I think when I think of experiences now or or relationships I have are things I'm getting into?
Like,
am I around people that that also believe in and like,
hey there's gonna be always be challenges,
but how do we move things forward?
(04:47):
How do we maybe take direction and shape it in a way that can really work um for whatever purpose we're sort of going after.
So I think those,
those,
those are some,
some sort of core principles that,
that really um define how I think and how I lead and how I engage with people awesome Archie.
(05:07):
Um 11 question I have for you is,
you know,
chris brought up this notion of,
of a misfit.
It's something that we find as a unifying front for this work that we're engaged in.
It's,
it's one of these things that we can all identify with,
what might your misfit story be in terms of,
you know,
your childhood or in terms of,
(05:29):
you know,
early career type of storyline.
Yeah,
I mean,
I grew up corporately in an era kind of the early nineties into,
into 2020 at least formally in a,
in a big company like Nike where,
you know,
there was so much opportunity,
um there were specialists and then there were people that were sort of,
(05:53):
you know,
brought a lot of learning agility and the ability to kind of,
to move around into different functional groups.
I would say,
you know,
one of the things that,
that I recognized right away,
I may not be the deepest in any one particular area.
Um,
but I think what I,
what I kind of developed,
you know,
I don't know,
it was so much a misfit or it was just a desire like,
(06:16):
hey,
I want to learn a lot about a lot of things and so when I reflect back,
I was able to live internationally in a couple of different countries in ASia and work in different functions,
work on the commercial side of the business or work on the creative side of the business,
actually making products.
Um,
or work in what we,
we called merchandizing was a little bit of a combination of both.
(06:40):
So,
um,
I was able to,
you know,
head into some different,
and I would even say disruptive whether it was cultures or ways of working that maybe my background wasn't super versed in,
but I knew enough,
um,
to,
to kind of take what I,
what I was capable of and and let that really kind of elevate and then also at the same time recognize,
(07:05):
hey,
I need to go deeper in a few areas as I go.
Um,
whether that's through mentorship or just sheer learning or experience,
um,
to make sure I sort of balance things out.
So,
um,
I kind of recognized early on like,
hey,
I want to do different things,
which is,
which is actually a really good thing.
It's also a challenge in that in a lot of cases you walk,
(07:26):
you work in groups where there's a lot of specialists.
Um,
so I had to,
you know,
really,
what do I bring to the table and then what can I learn why I'm there even even later in my career where I was a little bit more of a seasoned leader being very comfortable not knowing,
um and and and the more you did it actually,
(07:47):
the more comfortable you became,
um so I think that was,
that was,
you know,
a little bit of my story of,
of just having a desire to,
to do different things,
but at the same token,
um knowing that um being comfortable with maybe not knowing and and again,
as you do that,
it just kinda,
it kinda accelerates,
(08:08):
so you just take on more challenges like that,
right?
Uh you know,
there's a phrase we,
we use,
we call it experiment with experience,
I think that's the right kind of mindset,
that is needed to be able to connect the dots really,
and,
you know,
I think a lot of society is focused on the expert model,
(08:30):
the specialist that you described Malcolm Gladwell talks about,
you know,
the 10,000 hour approach,
um but there's something to be said about,
you know,
not just following your passion,
but we like to refer to it as following your passions,
you know,
the things that might interest you,
you know,
that type of curiosity,
you're tapping into,
um you know,
(08:50):
that could bring about a unique set of circumstances where you contribute to the world just by exploring that pathway or those pathways,
right?
So,
yeah,
there's,
there's great value and being a general list,
so to speak,
but,
you know,
pursuing a couple of deep pathways,
I think is healthy and getting good at certain baselines,
(09:11):
right?
Yeah.
I mean,
I think there's a baseline that we that you that you have to have but I do think especially now more than ever where there's so many interdependencies,
especially in business,
the ability to understand what everyone in the room is thinking or feeling and and knowing where maybe you need to head and being able to connect the dots or the pieces or the groups on how to do that.
(09:41):
I think that's a that's a skill set in itself and in a world of specialists At times,
I think sometimes you see you can see less and less of that.
So I was very fortunate in that I've got,
you know that I often heard it referred to as putting tools in the toolbox,
I got a chance to to put some tools in the toolbox.
(10:01):
I mean if you'd asked me in in 2011 did I know anything about the yen to dollar ratio,
I would have said no,
but in 2012 when I was sitting in Tokyo and I was trying to understand pricing in the marketplace.
You know,
I,
I started to learn about the value of different currencies and how that impacts how how products are priced and all those kind of things.
(10:23):
Um and again it's it's learn herbal behavior as long as you're given an opportunity to learn and you have an openness as well uh to want to want to learn.
Yeah.
And that that approach,
it's,
you know,
especially over the past decades could be considered countercultural right for a leader to be open in that collective sense,
(10:46):
that collaborative sense and it's vulnerable.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And then,
I mean granted your Nike and there's probably culture of sport,
right?
A team,
right?
Sense of sensibility.
Um and you know,
but it sounds like,
you know,
you that's been something you really drawn strength upon,
(11:06):
which is,
you know,
seeing this kind of open or fluid collaborative culture and building that around you.
Um that's,
you know,
uh we believe in the same thing.
We believe that's the future too as well as highlights,
right?
Of of of the past,
right?
We'd say,
well,
let's keep replaying that.
It's so good.
(11:26):
Right?
Um like that that wiggins jam against doc doc chick the other day.
I think I've seen a plug for the NBA playoffs.
Yeah.
(11:47):
So yeah,
so like I'm curious to,
you know,
just wow being in that kind of special setting,
uh,
you know,
culturally,
you know,
Nike in general and then just also um international.
What were some kind of highlight moments for you right?
Where you felt like,
wow,
this is something like really just kind of peak moment,
(12:09):
right?
That was something really special.
Well maybe I'll share maybe two examples um that are are very,
very different.
Um and and it's funny,
um you know,
when I first started Nike,
of course the first thing you think about is the amazing brand that it is and it's an incredible brand and I started in the early nineties,
(12:29):
so imagine the heyday of,
of Michael Jordan and,
and uh bo Jackson and and the,
the,
the fab fab five and,
and for me,
I actually started in Greenland,
new Hampshire and it is a ship receiver in the back of the warehouse,
it was a combination customer service warehouse and distribution warehouse.
(12:50):
We had a little employee store and I worked in the back and I would come to work,
you know,
fresh out of college every day and and and a tank top and,
and you know,
got got packages out the door.
And it was funny because within the first week I knew this was a place I wanted to really see through and be a part of and the reason I say that it was the people and ultimately the people become the culture and to see these leaders.
(13:25):
Um and I was just so,
and,
and maybe it was,
hey,
I was a college athlete and I've always really kind of taken to that,
but to see uh the amount of leadership,
the amount of care and the amount of pride in those groups to different groups because you sort of had a kind of an inside sales group,
customer service group and then a warehouse group.
(13:46):
And it was funny,
I was sitting in um true story,
I was in in,
in shanghai.
Um,
a few years prior to leaving Nike waiting in a Starbucks line at seven a.m. Before going up into the the office tower and I hear this accent and it's,
and I said to the woman ordering coffee,
I was like wow,
(14:07):
it's got to be massachusetts or new Hampshire and she said new Hampshire and she looked at me and she,
her name is lisa Fortier so she ever hears that she'll get a kick that I mentioned her name,
she's a,
she's a specialist in warehousing and I.
T.
And warehouse operations and she had been out to,
she flies around the world really to help different situations that Mikey has and we just sort of embraced and had a hug and it was just so interesting to see,
(14:33):
here we are,
you know,
at that point maybe 27 years later and reconnected and I think it's just that the power of people and I was very fortunate to see that early on you accelerate back,
you accelerate forward I should say in my career and I just was,
you know,
just had some really interesting experiences sitting in working with groups,
(14:56):
especially in Japan,
I would say,
um,
where it's such a foreign country.
I mean it's the lowest immigration in the world.
Um,
unlike china like english is actually,
it's,
it's a lot more scarce even in the office environment.
So there's a lot of just cultural norm and communication,
um,
opportunities or challenges depending how you look at it and to be able to sit there after the fact and,
(15:20):
and and be with those with those with the team over there and reflect on how you made a difference and and more importantly you made a connection um that to me was just was everything and it just kind of kind of showed what the power of just being authentic with folks and and and really being in the moment can can do for you.
So I think those are two similar stories but different,
(15:42):
but it was sort of at the beginning and a little bit more towards the end of my career and just very reflective moments where I,
I realized how lucky I was to have been given some unique opportunities.
But the same token I was,
I was also willing to to kind of embrace that and and take on those challenges.
That's a really cool kind of full circle storytelling there,
(16:05):
you know,
where you,
you met your co worker 20 years later,
that's really cool.
Um tell us about some of the challenges culturally in working in Asia,
you know,
you have the Nike workplace culture,
you know,
which is very iconic.
It sounds like such a rewarding experience for you personally and the teams,
(16:26):
you've been a part of how did that translate the workplace culture,
but also being in these other diverse cultures maybe go into that a little bit for us.
You know,
what's really interesting about that is I think the personal transformation that you have when you live in a country that's not your,
(16:46):
your native,
your own is the biggest transformation you have.
Um,
and then that in,
in,
in turn starts to inform what happens in the work environment.
Um,
and you know,
I could go on and on about different stories.
Um,
but just learning the language.
Um,
one of the funny one of my personally funny stories is um,
(17:10):
my,
I coached sports in Japan.
My son was in the fifth through seventh grade.
We're over there.
My daughter was second or fifth grade.
So I coached his American football team.
We would play other Japanese teams and then there was some military bases where we'd see other American kids.
And so this was the school was maybe 45 miles or so away from,
(17:34):
there was more in the suburbs show food as the suburbs of Tokyo.
And so um,
rather than take a train,
which would take just in terms of connections,
it would take a long time.
We actually got a used car and so you know,
I got a permit,
but then after a year you actually had to take the japanese driver's test and um,
(17:54):
it was very common for folks to,
you know,
to not pass.
And of course my wife passes the first time,
I don't think she drove more than twice all year and she passes.
Um But on on on turn number two I was able to,
I was able to knock it out but just to be able to go in there and it wasn't a written test,
it was it was an actual and structural driving test and there was a course and there were certain things you had to do but just to be able to kind of put that all together with frankly no english being spoken.
(18:25):
Um I just thought it was a really interesting uh you know,
demonstration of just this is what you're going through.
So like even going initially going to buy things,
grocery stores,
language barriers,
cultural norms.
Um all of that same thing in china um a little bit different um china was much more intense I would say just because shanghai is such a big city.
(18:50):
Tokyo is massive too,
but it's a little bit more spread out and sort of um not quite as high.
I mean shanghai is just massive if you feel like you're sort of the epicenter of the world,
there's so much going on there and this is of course all pre covid um But I think just your daily sort of,
okay,
(19:11):
I'm getting to the office,
my routine is completely altered.
Um Maybe where I'm a big morning exercise person maybe where I do that is is shaped completely differently,
what am I eating.
Um all those things,
all the things you don't even think about uh in our,
in our culture and in our country,
all of a sudden that is like super top of mine.
(19:32):
Um,
but the more comfortable you become,
and the more open to what I did learn about myself is I started to become much more open to things that weren't exactly what I,
what I,
how I would do it or maybe it's a little bit different from something and I started to not get uncomfortable about that,
(19:52):
I started to become much more comfortable.
Um and,
and and then all of a sudden you start to thrive in okay,
like this is totally different.
What a unique experience I started to become far less reliant on.
Um of course technology helps too.
So now,
all of a sudden,
you know,
I'm getting,
you know,
(20:12):
I'm living on ESPN or what have you,
but like I wasn't all caught up in.
All right,
the games are on saturday because frankly it's the saturday games were on sunday and the NFL was monday when you were at the office.
So um just a lot of things you sort of learn to,
to prioritize and filter what,
what was really most important.
Um,
and then as a result,
(20:33):
I I think you kind of bring your best self uh,
to the office and you and just the whole notion of being curious,
I mean,
certainly working for a brand,
like Nike would center you when you go through the office doors because you're you know you've got a you're all kind of laddering up to common strategy and and and where you want to take the brand.
But but how you did that every day was was very unique.
(20:55):
But you know early on I I would say I would have had challenges like anyone else I would say as I grew through that though it became very very very comfortable.
Um And and one thing chris we we we spoke to earlier and I failed to mention and I just will now because I feel like I um I I do want to do is um another sort of principle of mine that I learned very much firsthand and in all these experiences I'm sharing with you it's just the power of diverse teams um and its diverse teams and it's inclusive teams and ultimately empower teams.
(21:33):
Um And I learned that firsthand and I was I was working in the U.
S.
And I certainly learned it um Working overseas and diversity across all dimensions.
Um For sure and I think diversity of experience was just a really really big one for me being open to um bringing people into groups that maybe you wouldn't have traditionally thought would have made the most sense.
(21:58):
I think over time I learned it was such an asset and frankly it's a business advantage.
Um Not only is the right thing to do but it's it's it's a clear demonstrated upside and how you approach things because you're not all thinking about things necessarily the same way you're getting all these different points of view,
which is really,
really powerful.
So I think that for me that all sort of ian kind of ties back and circles back,
(22:21):
but that's,
you know,
it's a little bit of of of kind of how I feel both in terms of approaching um you know,
some of those areas where I may have stumbled,
but then over time,
just really kind of embracing the stumble,
Archie,
I love that story um because I'm hearing parallels between,
(22:45):
you know,
your experience as an expat trying to learn different languages,
customs,
cultures,
hoping to be kind of accepted into these new teams so that you can effectively contribute,
so that your literal voice and your words can be heard by the teams,
Do you feel like that process of progressively trying to sort of be welcomed in?
(23:10):
Um also affected the way even,
you know,
when you're working with with a team that seems to be,
you know,
similar in many ways,
has that heightened your awareness of,
you know,
different ways in which it could be helpful to,
to help welcome people in no question and um I was very,
(23:32):
very blessed in my working career that I had several mentors or both formally and informally,
or people that I just had conversations with that were so gracious in paying things forward in providing insight and and sort of opening up my mind to things,
(23:54):
I mean I was blessed and and so as a result for myself,
um I when new people come into the group,
um I really make it a point to just sort of welcome folks in.
Um not that I need to be a mentor to everyone because I don't or didn't,
um but I wanted to create an environment where where people just felt they could bring their authentic self,
(24:19):
they could be comfortable.
Um because again,
I did have a little bit of the secret sauce in the back of my mind,
like if we create the right environment,
people will do their best work.
And a lot of that I learned um too early on working in product creation at Nike,
where you're working with creatives and you want to make sure that they're,
(24:40):
they have unique talents and and there and then how do you bring sort of the consumer and the marketplace and trend into that?
Um so I learned about the imp importance of environment.
Um and I liked,
you know,
I started to kind of,
you know,
try to bring that everywhere I went where no matter what type of group I was working with or in the environment or at least a tone that I set was a tone of collaboration.
(25:05):
Um people coming together and sharing.
That's just one of the bigger things that I think I brought to the table and and kind of along those lines.
Um and maybe specifically to your question or excuse me,
rob,
it's I think any time you put yourself out there in front of your team,
that vulnerability,
about trying to learn something or,
(25:29):
you know,
giving it your your your best try and and I think,
I think the teams have an incredible admiration for that.
Um you know,
I think you can I'm just I think when I'm I used to say when I'm when I'm done,
sort of expressing that sincere interest in trying to grow,
(25:51):
then this wouldn't have been the place for me.
And I think um that's just how I'm built even today,
whether I was volunteering this past winter with a high school basketball team here and in maine or working in the startup environment that I'm in now,
which is just a tiny team.
Um just that sort of how do we do things better?
(26:12):
How do I learn?
Just being a kind of a lifelong learner.
It's just a lot of what is built within me and it's just how I operate,
um because the,
you know,
this is really overused,
but it's it's so true and I put this on my Children a lot as well,
but like the journey is everything,
(26:32):
it's less around what happens as the result,
the game the win,
the the product you built the number you hit.
I mean while I'm not saying that's not important,
but like the journey of growing to deliver something that's that's where all the gold is and that's what you reflect back on.
It's less about you got there and it's kind of how you got there.
(26:55):
So yeah,
a lot of the themes that you're you're highlighting um makes me think,
you know,
there's the best leaders I've ever met right at Apple other places that I've talked to,
if you ask them,
um how do they consider themselves,
like what's their role and they'll say a coach,
(27:17):
right?
And the elements that you're describing are all what a what a great coach does.
Yeah,
I mean,
I think the with those folks sharing with you in those different cultures about being a coach I think is spot on.
I mean if you think about,
especially in bigger organizations as you grow in your career,
(27:40):
um and you take on more responsibility,
maybe it's a bigger team.
Um there's more complexity that you're leading.
You can't do it all.
And and especially as you make that sort of a lot of people make that transition from sort of an individual contributor,
even a high level one to more of a group lee leader or enterprise leader,
(28:01):
um you just can't do it all yourself,
nor should you.
So I think that,
you know,
for me,
I think the great leaders are just that they're able to learn how to inspire,
um,
how to create clarity,
um how to celebrate execution as well.
(28:22):
Um and they're able to kind of package that all up together.
Um and that's through,
you know,
delegation is through empowerment,
um shaping the dynamics of that team,
understanding what,
you know,
maybe that,
that function or organization needed at the time.
Um and I think that's a big part of what what leaders do,
(28:43):
I mean certainly strategy comes into that no question and clarity of vision is everything.
Um but after that,
how you coach and mentor and shape people is is super important.
Um and I would,
and once again,
I was very blessed at different stages in my career,
literally from the first time I walked in the door uh to to really,
(29:05):
even even to this day,
um I had great people who,
who did that for me and and I felt a responsibility uh to kind of pay that forward and do that for the next generation.
Um I got that in sport and I certainly got that in business.
Yeah.
One of the things you touched on two earlier was mentioned about,
you know,
kind of not not letting failure kind of stumble us or you talk about growth mindset to write and that's definitely,
(29:34):
you know,
something a coach has in mind right there,
you're gonna have some,
you know,
sometimes you just have losses in the loss column,
but the focus is the long term,
right the journey as you said,
Yeah,
I think a story that sort of jumps out,
um and it happened a while back some,
I'm very comfortable sharing is um,
(29:55):
when I was the head of basketball footwear at Nike,
uh and this is 2008 ish zone,
um the business was not in a great place.
Um the trends were around lifestyle.
I was heading up more of the performance,
sort of new creation area and and a lot of the sales at retail were,
(30:16):
and or what they would define as like classic products.
So,
um,
we we knew things were difficult and,
you know,
in a company,
you can,
you can certainly feel the pressure and myself being the leader of the group.
I could,
I could feel it,
I could certainly feel it quite a bit.
And um,
we really,
(30:36):
what we ended up doing this is really pre Beijing olympics 2008 as we create a product called the Hyper Dunk and and it ended up being an incredibly successful product that,
that that team went on,
even as I left product creation and went into sort of general management merchandizing,
sort of,
that that product sort of lived on.
(30:57):
And then ultimately that product went away,
but a lot of those principles lived on around being lighter,
more responsive.
Um and you could see it cascade through the line,
but at the time,
I would,
I'll tell you the learnings were,
so you're in a tough business.
Um and you know,
what's the number one thing,
you start with,
its,
its focus,
like what are you trying,
(31:19):
what are you trying to,
to deliver and why are you trying to deliver it?
And what do you want people to feel once you deliver it?
And so we really just kind of got back and that was,
you know,
even for myself,
like I'm like,
wait a second here,
we used to have this many models and now we have this model and but yeah,
we applied incredible focus and we built something super special and,
and the product was a huge success,
(31:41):
one of the olympics by,
you know,
several,
the entire US the Redeem team,
I think um that group,
it was just,
it was amazing,
it was an amazing experience to see a group kind of go all in,
like really sort of build out a product journey or a story where you were all in and I think it's just incredibly exciting.
(32:06):
Um the flip side I would tell you now is in my current role within 3 60 hoops,
we're building,
we're taking an idea that at one point was,
was frankly a sketch or an idea and we're,
this is pre revenue,
I came into the team and we're building a three dimensional product and there's a lot of just interdependencies and suppliers and you know,
(32:31):
all this,
and just to be able to then kind of know that like,
hey,
before we go out and we create events and we market this and we do that and hire people and do all these different things.
The number one thing we've got to do is let's get our experience,
let's get our product experience right first,
so that we've got some something to build with and from,
(32:53):
and it's just been a good learning that's kinda cascaded into this and you know,
when you're in,
you know,
when you're in an environment that's actually a startup and you know,
capital is tight and resources are precious um that's a whole different level of,
you know,
how do you create focus and how do you,
how do you just kind of move forward in a really strategic way and in both cases um creating something really brilliant was,
(33:19):
was,
was was great to see that's a great story,
very inspiring,
especially coming back,
not necessarily from the brink,
but definitely coming from a place that you know,
the business was not where you wanted it to be and then to see that that comeback is,
is awesome,
especially on such a global scale.
I I imagine Archie that you know,
(33:41):
working your way up like you did in Nike in the warehouse in a temp position,
I'm sure that lended a great deal of empathy throughout your career,
you know,
being able to connect with people of all walks of life at any position um and it's rare,
I mean when I was in health care,
the most effective managers from a nursing standpoint,
(34:04):
started off as housekeepers or you know,
certified AIDS because they had a deep respect for what it takes to do,
the little things that kinda add up.
And I imagine that's got to be very similar to,
you know,
what you're describing to us with your experience,
um going back to the hyper dunk scenario.
(34:26):
Um I think that you pointed out a great challenge that you guys overcame as a team.
And it sounds like there was a lot of collaboration,
the tension was there,
the pressure was there,
what are some of those elements,
you know,
as a leader,
looking at your team and trying to influence,
you know,
(34:47):
those conditions,
What are some of those things that you can extract from that experience that were key to co creative elements uh with that environment that you guys dealt with back then.
Yeah,
and I think it's,
this plays out across the board uh every day for leaders everywhere.
I think,
(35:08):
you know,
the number one thing is at least what I took away from it was while I was leading that team,
um I didn't necessarily have to be right,
it didn't have to be my idea.
Um I think what I took away is like creating conditions where the talent on that team could bring their best self and be open to different ideas.
(35:36):
Um and I think,
you know,
sometimes you gotta kind of be back pushed up against the wall a little bit to really have that like fully come to to be,
but I think for leaders,
like creating conditions,
I mean a lot of times,
you know,
it's easy to,
you know,
(35:57):
I think you're listening,
think you're taking it in,
but really you kind of know where you want to go and to some degree,
you do have to know where you want to go,
but you also have to be really open to feedback and input um from folks,
especially folks,
especially in a situation where you're talking about bringing different skills or functions um or ideas to a certain project um which was very common in my prior work,
(36:25):
it's common in my current work,
you're bringing people with varied skill sets,
so you,
you want to respect what they bring,
you want to listen for and be open to it.
And I think that was one of the things I learned right away like and I think ultimately that all adds up to what I would call a culture of innovation and which I think the great brands,
(36:48):
the great brands are,
you know,
they let innovation and problem solving and being a futurist dr uh what they do.
Um and I think that's just a behavior as a leader,
you need to model um Another big takeaway I had kind of related um to that,
but probably related to our earlier conversation is just,
(37:11):
you know,
modeling the behavior you want to see the team exhibit is everything and,
and it's really interesting like in today's um world.
So I spent,
I spent,
I had a chance for this year.
I think I referenced,
I coached a high school basketball team will the prior winter.
(37:32):
I had volunteered at Lewis and Clark College.
So I did a little around the college thing and a little bit of high school things,
which really fun to kind of be back in a zone where it's sports and coaching and not just business and coaching,
although I enjoy both.
Um,
but one thing is for sure in athletics,
especially college athletics,
I have a son who plays at a small college himself and you're seeing it firsthand is I think more than ever the employees or the players are evaluating the coaches or the leadership as much as the leadership or the coaches are evaluating the employees or,
(38:13):
or the players and I'm not quite sure that leaders and coaches fully understand that that now and if you're,
if you're younger,
it's probably from a mindset shift perspective,
it may either be easier.
Um,
just because you're more used to that culture.
But I think what I see in a lot of cases is,
(38:35):
and you know,
there's a lot of noise right now and in sports and in collegiate sports and I'm sort of a junkie and both football and college,
I followed it pretty intensely around transfer portal and name image likeness where athletes now can be recognized for their contribution,
which I fully support.
Um,
but I think,
you know,
and I've said this to a lot of friends that I have in coaching because I do have quite a few,
(39:00):
like now more than ever,
the number one thing you need to have with your athletes and ultimately I think your employees is you need to be connected Because connection equals value.
And to use a sports analogy how you're connected to say in basketball,
your 13th person,
um,
say versus your first person,
(39:21):
it could be totally different.
The first person might be and I mean like your top athlete or top player might be totally different,
but if you're not connected to the whole group at some level,
both as a team and individually,
it's hard to rally everybody and I think that is the opportunity now in leadership is connection and,
(39:44):
and it takes many different shapes.
It takes many different forms.
It is about being authentic yourself and it's about being curious and asking questions like,
you know,
what is going on?
How do you feel,
are you getting everything out of this experience that you want?
How can I help you get better?
How can I help you reach your goals?
(40:04):
And I think now more than ever,
like that's it and um,
I think teams and coaches,
uh,
and businesses that they kind of use that,
I know,
that's a lot softer,
but that use that as a strategy will benefit immensely immensely as they go forward?
Yeah,
you're like describing this kind of co creative relationship,
(40:27):
right?
And it's this shift,
right?
That's happened.
And,
you know,
we were always curious to with this rising generation or even folks in the workplace that feel there's been a lot of change,
right?
People,
you know,
probably more than,
you know,
in our lifetimes,
(40:48):
right?
Um in general,
and then in the business world to uh,
you know,
everybody working,
you know,
or at least for a time,
you know,
and,
and sometimes it's hybrid now,
but it's on zoom or more of these calls and,
you know,
the way that work happens,
right?
The rhythm is shifted.
And so that's just kind of one example.
(41:09):
But to your point,
you know,
for these people,
you know,
that are wondering,
well,
how do I lean in,
Right.
How do I lean into the future?
And you've answered a lot of this already,
right?
You just said it,
it's like,
hey,
there's this collaborative relationship and it's about connection,
right?
And then for them right there,
employee that wants to feel like a co creator and maybe they're in an environment where it's,
(41:35):
you know,
um that culture hasn't shifted yet,
but maybe those existential elements are shaking its foundation and those leaders are realizing they've gotta move,
right,
or or become obsolete,
but what can people do,
right?
To be brave in that in the ways maybe some of you,
what you described or what would you say,
(41:55):
What kind of advice would you share with them?
Well,
I'd say maybe a couple of things.
One I would say the whole notion of modeling the behavior you want is huge.
So if you as the leader um can model that if they can see you trying to bring people together,
see you being vulnerable,
see you brainstorming,
(42:16):
seeing you being very open to pursuing maybe alternative paths.
Um what have you?
I think that goes a long,
long way.
Um getting back to the connection part,
you know,
once you've established connection,
the byproduct of that is trust and once you have trust,
(42:39):
the sky's the limit because when you have trust as an athlete,
and if you're a coach,
you can coach hard,
you can coach different.
Nobody personalize is it because you have trust?
And I think in the business environment,
once you've established that trust,
people are much more comfortable,
(42:59):
like,
okay,
I'm gonna put myself out there,
I'm gonna throw my idea in,
I know that if I do that,
um even if the room maybe moves in a different direction,
uh there,
there aren't consequences for it because I have this connection,
I have this trust,
I have this relationship,
I have this confidence.
(43:20):
Um and and the person that's really helping lead this,
that will happen.
I think the other thing you can do related to that both points as a leader is as people put themselves out there because,
you know,
it's hard.
Um and there's so many different working styles,
like you have introverts and extroverts,
I was a little bit more on the extroverted side,
um you probably expect um you know,
(43:44):
at times,
maybe too much so,
um but I learned how to work with,
how do you bring the best out of an introvert who has amazing ideas.
So I I would go into meetings knowing a little bit of the personality makeup of my teams and or the teams I was working with and know like,
hey,
there's some people,
I might actually have to bring them along,
(44:05):
or I might talk to them ahead of time and say,
hey look,
I would love for you to share something around X.
Um and then,
and then of course when people do put themselves out there,
you know,
applauding that um recognizing that encouraging that um is everything and it's really hard,
(44:26):
um there's so much pressure to be right,
uh and some companies are so much pressure to grow.
Um and you know,
it can feel like there's not a lot of room to to be wrong or to experiment or to edit or evolve or morph,
but there is,
there really is,
(44:47):
and I think that's where where the real growth comes,
so I think as a leader,
a modeling it be being really positive about others that do it,
see creating an environment um where that can happen and and then I think the last point is just learning,
you know,
how does your style connect with everyone,
you know,
(45:07):
it may,
it may really work for some folks,
it may work less for others um and believe me,
I haven't always done it right?
No,
no question about it.
And so I've learned through that and how to sort of cater my style at times in different ways uh to make sure I'm connected,
but I,
the one,
the only other thing I might add that I think is always I really appreciated by people and by teams is the clearer the expectation,
(45:38):
the clearer the brief,
so to speak,
the clearer the vision on what we're trying to accomplish the better sort of end result.
So,
I think as a leader,
your clarity of vision is super important,
so if you're up there and you're kind of moving in and out and things,
you know,
don't add up,
(46:00):
I think that's also where I think you've got to really understand that people are trying to follow you um and if your vision is clear and and people feel connected,
then ultimately you are going to build followership and people are,
are they're gonna okay?
I understand,
I mean there's so much change in the workplace to your point chris like,
(46:23):
so creating,
like simple in sort of clear directives or not even directives,
but in some cases maybe directives or just visioning statements about what you're trying to do is everything because think about it,
we're working differently,
we're working remotely um you know,
we're working in some cases across different cultures or what have you,
(46:45):
there are people working together for the last couple of years that have never met in person and so clarity and simplicity.
I think now more than ever is like super important.
This episode of lead with the Question was produced by me,
(47:05):
rob calen with support from my co hosts and Brave core founders,
chris Deaver and Ian clawson.
The music you heard was composed by Ian as part of another project he's involved in called Moon Machine,
Dave Arcade created our podcast Cover Art special.
Thanks to Archie for providing a vicarious glimpse into the principles that have guided him in his leadership journey.
(47:29):
Also,
we really appreciate you for taking the time to co create these conversations with us,
especially when there are so many other things you could be doing,
if you found any value at all in these episodes,
could you do a favor,
leave us a rating even a review wherever you're listening right now.
It takes about two minutes and helps others discover the show as well.
(47:50):
If you want to learn more about the work we're doing at Brave Core,
you can check out our website at Brave Core dot c o The lead with a question podcast is a production of Brave Core LLC thanks for being with us.
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