When a beloved role ends, identity gets loud.
In this candid conversation, Joshua Gordon traces his journey from ministry-adjacent entrepreneur to a surprising new assignment after his business collapsed in COVID. A trusted friend’s hard words, deep prayer, and patient community became “spiritual physio” that restored his sense of self in Christ.
We talk about the gap between intention and impact in church transitions, why being “driven” can hide quiet desperation, and how to hear God’s still small voice before things are literally on fire.
Josh shares the practical and pastoral moves that protected his marriage, his kids, and his future calling.
If you are a leader facing an ending, a board guiding one, or a pastor recovering from one, this episode offers language, wisdom, and hope. Faithfulness isn’t empire building. It’s walking with Jesus in ordinary choices that shape a lifetime.
Key takeaways- Intention without action creates collateral damage in transitions.
- “Driven” can be desperation in disguise; identity must relocate from role to Christ.
- God often speaks through memory, community, and quiet checks in the soul.
- Invite truth-telling friends. Love risks being misunderstood to protect you.
- Over-preparation can be control; trust requires limits on our need to manage outcomes.
- Measure success by faithfulness to Jesus and people, not by platform.
- Healthy endings open a window for deep heart work and future freedom.
- 00:00 Cold open, Canadians and calling
- 03:20 Intention vs impact in church transitions
- 07:30 PK expectations and disillusionment
- 10:20 Building a ministry-minded business
- 12:40 COVID collapse and costly layoffs
- 16:20 Untangling identity from role
- 18:45 A memory from God that exposed motive
- 28:55 “Physio” for the soul and daily trust
- 38:00 Friendship that told the hard truth
- 47:50 Closing one work, starting another
- 52:15 Learning to follow quiet discernment
- 59:30 Wealth redefined: family, faith, and freedom
- 1:04:15 Kingdom over empire, final blessing
If you’re facing a ministry transition - or helping someone through one - visit MinistryTransitions.com to find confidential guidance, resources, and hope for what’s next.
For more from Joshua Gordon and The Lead Pastor, visit here: https://theleadpastor.com/
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Ruthie's Table 4
For more than 30 years The River Cafe in London, has been the home-from-home of artists, architects, designers, actors, collectors, writers, activists, and politicians. Michael Caine, Glenn Close, JJ Abrams, Steve McQueen, Victoria and David Beckham, and Lily Allen, are just some of the people who love to call The River Cafe home. On River Cafe Table 4, Rogers sits down with her customers—who have become friends—to talk about food memories. Table 4 explores how food impacts every aspect of our lives. “Foods is politics, food is cultural, food is how you express love, food is about your heritage, it defines who you and who you want to be,” says Rogers. Each week, Rogers invites her guest to reminisce about family suppers and first dates, what they cook, how they eat when performing, the restaurants they choose, and what food they seek when they need comfort. And to punctuate each episode of Table 4, guests such as Ralph Fiennes, Emily Blunt, and Alfonso Cuarón, read their favourite recipe from one of the best-selling River Cafe cookbooks. Table 4 itself, is situated near The River Cafe’s open kitchen, close to the bright pink wood-fired oven and next to the glossy yellow pass, where Ruthie oversees the restaurant. You are invited to take a seat at this intimate table and join the conversation. For more information, recipes, and ingredients, go to https://shoptherivercafe.co.uk/ Web: https://rivercafe.co.uk/ Instagram: www.instagram.com/therivercafelondon/ Facebook: https://en-gb.facebook.com/therivercafelondon/ For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iheartradio app, apple podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.com
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com