Share the Chair: Courtney Andriunas

We all have a purpose, but have we found it, yet? Do we even know how to find it? In another of our Share the Chair series of episodes, CH sits down with namesake friend, mentor, and former boss, Courtney Andriunas, to talk about the pursuit of one's true calling. Courtney shares how her long-standing love of Boston, Massachusetts and a bucket list desire to take a class at Harvard lead her to a transformative workshop during the first year of the COVID-19 pandemic. Listen in as she discusses what it means to truly find one's individual sense of purpose, what inspiring and authentic leadership looks like in the workplace (hint: it should NOT be that different from how we are in our personal lives), and how her passion for creating a supportive and encouraging space for others remains one of her key tenets. This episode has you covered with wisdom and uplifting energy from not one but two Courtneys.

 

Show Notes

• Courtney's LinkedIn profile is here for those interested in learning more about her or connecting to talk further about the workshop (note: you will need a LinkedIn account to see her full profile and be able to follow her).
  • The workshop was through the Harvard Extension School.
• More information on the discussion CH and Courtney were having regarding different leadership styles as defined by distinct colors (e.g., Red, Yellow, Blue, Green) can be found on a number of Web sites and through various organizations. You can try a Google search of "What are the 4 leadership colors" if you'd like to learn more.
• James Lipton's Inside the Actor's Studio questionnaire, and the original Bernard Pivot/Marcel Proust versions that inspired it, can be found here. Our C17 version is our own take on these two famous questionnaires.

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
This week's Life Note, we share the chair with a namesake friend,
mentor, and former boss who has found her purpose and enjoys creating space
for others to find theirs.
Music.
Welcome to Life Notes from Chair 17, a podcast dedicated to sharing life stories,

(00:25):
wisdoms, and inspirations as we navigate life's journey.
Host CH aims to share thoughtful perspectives and insights from her own life
journey, as well as those of special guests and contributors.
Tune in for thoughtful conversations about lessons learned, wisdoms gained,
experiences had, and inspirations shared.

(00:46):
Find us where you get your podcasts and be sure to hit follow or subscribe so
you never miss an episode.
Now, enjoy this week's episode.
Alrighty, welcome back in, friends, to another episode of Life Notes from Chair17.
I'm your host, C.H., and I thank you, as always, once again,

(01:09):
for finding me in this corner of the podcast universe.
And as always, I'd like to start off by thanking our returning C-17ers for your
continued support and being here each week.
That does include our returning international C-17ers who are checking us out
from different spots around the globe.

(01:30):
Really appreciate it. Thank you. And if you are tuning in for the first time,
maybe you've just found us on one of the major podcast platforms or via our website,
out on Life Notes from Chair17podcast.com, a warm welcome in to you as well.
Thank you for wanting to check us out.
Certainly hope you like what you hear and you will want to continue to tune in.

(01:53):
So, this week is another episode in our Share the Chair series,
and it happens to be with one of my most favorite people in the world,
and of whom I also happen to share.
The same first name, and that is Courtney Andreunis.
Now, I was lucky enough to work for Court A, as I like to call her,

(02:17):
because when you do have the same first name as either your boss or somebody
on your team, you kind of have to come up with different ways of identifying each other.
So if I call her Court A, I am talking about the same person.
But I was lucky enough to work for her and support her team.
And I came to do that right at the beginning of the COVID-19 pandemic when I

(02:44):
was hired into Tableau, which was the company she had been working for for a few years.
And in that time, I really came to appreciate her energy and her enthusiasm and her wisdom,
particularly in this very weird strange

(03:04):
time when we were all being hired remotely
so you had to get to know your manager and
your boss and your team not in
an in-person sense we now have normalized that of course and we can thank the
pandemic really for making that experience nowadays if you get into a remote
role a lot more let's call it smooth or fluid but back then it was But it's

(03:30):
still kind of, for a lot of companies and a lot of roles,
it was sort of a novel thing because not everyone had been working remote and
we hadn't worked out all the kinks.
And so to be able to really connect with someone, particularly the person you
would be working most closely with, was a real gift.
And I wanted to have her on this podcast because during that time,

(03:52):
she took what was called a Finding Your Purpose workshop from Harvard University's Extension School.
And it was a four-month long, really deeply intensive,
and let's call it personal course, that was also tied to developing an authentic

(04:17):
leadership style, both, I would say, in life and in business.
And she was so
profoundly affected by the workshop and came
out of it with such a passion for what
she had learned during the workshop that she
took it upon herself to create a condensed version version that she brought

(04:41):
back with her into Tableau at the time and gave it as a three-week workshop
for those of us who were interested and signed up to participate.
And I have to say it was one of the best workshops I had ever taken.
I didn't really know what to expect, but I knew at the time,

(05:04):
which was sort of late 2021, I was not feeling my best.
And I was kind of looking for something to help me refocus, recenter,
keep finding that light, keep moving towards that light in what was kind of
a dark period of time for a lot of us.
Not all of us, but for a lot of us, it was a struggle for those first couple

(05:26):
of lockdown years or really intense COVID-19 years.
And I also feel that when she did this, it came at a key moment, too,
when a lot of companies made a very concerted effort to focus on the overall
mental health and wellness of their employee population because of what we were

(05:53):
all going through together as part of the pandemic. Right.
I personally feel that that should not have ever been something that wasn't in focus,
but I do believe we have to give the pandemic some credit for really shining
an even brighter light on it and how important it is,
and also to really commend the companies that have maintained that even if we

(06:15):
have moved past those initial really isolating and lockdown years.
So we talk We talk a lot in this episode about what finding her purpose has
meant to her. We talk a little bit about her upbringing.
We also talk how the workshop has helped her further develop showing up as a

(06:40):
very authentic person and an authentic leader, both in work and life.
And hint, they are both the same and she believes they should be the same,
which I think is just refreshing because oftentimes we do put on a different
mask at work than we are in life and she's not one of those people.
And there's just a lot of nuggets and wisdoms in

(07:01):
this episode that she shares and of which she continues to carry forward in
her own day-to-day life since having taken that workshop and then also finding
the desire and the love and the passion to help create the space for others to find their own.
Whether she's doing a workshop, she's not currently doing one,

(07:24):
but just in ways she interacts with folks and how she connects with people.
So I really loved chatting with her.
It was an uplifting energy moment as most of our one-on-ones used to be.
So I sincerely appreciate Corée for taking the time and sharing all that she shared.
As usual, our Share the Chair episodes tend to run a little bit longer,

(07:48):
but they are worth it because they tend to really highlight some,
I think, beautiful life experiences or just nuggets and wisdoms and inspirations
that can really maybe bring a smile to people's face no matter what point of
life you are in or where you are at and whether it is personal or professional.

(08:12):
Professional and that is my hope for this episode
so with that i will leave you with it please enjoy
and as always be kind
to yourself take it one hour at a time one day at
a time and we will see you next time enjoy the episode hi court hi how are you
i'm good thank you for wanting to do this with me i really appreciate it you

(08:36):
were definitely a share the chair candidate that i I wanted to bring on when I started doing.
Folks coming on and talking about their life experience and their life journey and one of,
your piece your aspects of that your pieces of
that is centered around the finding your
purpose workshop i had the good fortune of working for court during our time

(08:57):
at a tech company and she was and still is one of my favorite people to have
ever worked for but also aside from that i have always appreciated your energy
and your enthusiasm for the things that you're most passionate about,
which this is one of those things. It is, yes.
So let's start a little bit at the beginning and let me ask the question of,

(09:23):
did you grow up in a family that encouraged you to kind of forge your own path
or kind of find something that is your purpose or the thing that you really love doing or whatnot?
Did you have that as a younger person in the childhood that you had? I did.
I was very fortunate. I love both my parents dearly.

(09:46):
And they were both always very, very supportive in whatever you want to do,
you can do it. You just have to figure out how.
Like that was always kind of my mom's, you know, phrasing was like,
hey, you can do anything, but you just got to figure out how to do it.
And my dad was always super supportive.
Same thing. They were both, they were very open like that. They didn't really

(10:08):
think there was anything anyone
couldn't do and that people are people and kindness gets you really far.
And I just, I had a very supportive environment growing up and there were never
limits or expectations put on me of there was anything that I couldn't do. I just had to work for it.
So really living the whole life, anything you put your mind to,

(10:29):
you can do. Very much so. Kind of. Yeah. I was very lucky to grow up with that message.
That's cool. Yeah. So if we talk about this story,
It's a workshop, but it really came to you. How did finding your purpose?
So when we talk about this, and for everybody to understand,
right, there's two things that we're talking about.
Court A took it as a workshop.

(10:50):
And by the way, sidebar.
So I realize as I say that out loud, so this will be funny to everybody listening.
We are named the same, right? Courtney and Courtney. So when you work for somebody
who has your same name, you have to call yourself different things.
So I always called her Court A because her nickname was Court,

(11:11):
but my nickname was also Court. So I had to kind of abbreviate that.
So if you hear me say Court A, I'm talking to the same person.
Old habits die hard. Oh, it's really not hard. I'm sitting across from you and
you're like, so court A, court A, court A.
And I don't think anybody else called you that. Everybody else called you court.
But I called you with the A at the end because, well, we have different last

(11:33):
names. Right. Mutual Courtney's is what you have to do.
I'm sure anyone named Jennifer or out there that has somebody that's got a common
name that you often work with people that are named the same, you do this.
So sidebar for everyone being like, who's she talking about?
Same person, person sitting across from me.
But there's a difference and I kind of want to frame that up at the beginning of the episode.
So you took the workshop yourself, but then you also brought the workshop into

(11:58):
where we were working at the time. So what I want to talk first is how did you
discover that workshop to take it yourself?
Like, was something in your life going on that you were like,
I need something, I need to like energize myself and sort of talk about that
journey a little bit? it. Absolutely.
It was a bucket list item is what started it.

(12:20):
So I always had it on my list of things that I wanted to experience was Harvard.
And I have a love affair with Boston, even though I've never lived there.
And so I always had this like, man, it'd be so cool to go to Harvard.
And they have an extension school. And so I finally was like,
darn, this is the year, like one year, I'm like, I'm doing this.

(12:42):
And I did a professional development course there. and I loved it.
And then that led me to actually pursuing a still not accomplished one day certificate
for entrepreneurship and innovation.
And because it's not about the certificate, it's more about just the experience
and the quality of people.
Say what you will about Ivy Leagues and all the things, but people aren't there to mess around.

(13:06):
No one's there to waste time. So it's like everyone in that class is hungry
and it's such a cool environment to be in, just with this very diverse group of people.
And I've always had an interest in leadership and just, I mean,
I'm in marketing for a reason.
It's grounded in people and how they work, how they think, why,

(13:27):
you know, and perfect marketing or ideal marketing is you're getting someone
the thing that they need that will be helpful.
Like you're not just trying to sell them anything. You're trying to match the
person with a need with the thing that solves it.
And so I always just found that really interesting. And they had a course on
authentic leadership and finding your purpose.
And it was the first time the course was offered and I was just like sign me

(13:49):
up that sounds amazing that has my name that has my name on it and it was life-changing
it was such an amazing course and I think they still do it but I'm not sure
what year was this this 2020. So hey.
All for figuring stuff out. All for figuring out purposes in 2020.

(14:13):
And so coincidentally, so I was locked at home. Yeah. Finding my purpose.
I love it. And it was an amazing workshop. And I just, I learned so much from my fellow people.
The process was really fascinating because it was so not like you imagine.
A lot of it was about delving into who you are, who you were,

(14:34):
what you want, getting feedback, discussions,
and just learning about how authentic leadership in general and why you're here
is a journey and there's no perfection or outcome that you're aiming for.
I don't know. It just literally checked all my happy boxes of,
like, I don't know, my philosophy on life, I guess. And I loved it.

(14:56):
And so after I kind of discovered that and took the class, I just wanted to share it.
Like, that's kind of what led me to doing the workshop at work.
Because it was, I just wanted to bring it to people because I thought it was
so amazing. And I heard these amazing stories.
And yeah. Did they talk about when you took the class, did you,

(15:20):
was there a suggestion that you all would be able to walk away and bring it
to an environment in which you were?
Like, was that something that was talked about in the course?
Like, you will now be able to go teach this to other people, should you choose?
It wasn't intent, not explicitly.
So it wasn't a teach, train the trainers kind of situation. It It was really

(15:41):
about finding your purpose and for you as a leader.
But it was very much encouraged in the way that it was framed as like everyone,
like the benefit of this should be available for everyone.
So it wasn't necessarily to teach us to do anything, but it was very much like
this is kind of this magic thing. And can you just imagine if...

(16:03):
And like wouldn't it be great for everyone
to have this and then in part of the course like
not explicitly but it's about how do you find it like
that's really because you have to find yours the
whole goal is by the end of it that you would have be able
to like articulate kind of what your purpose is and then but literally the whole

(16:25):
lead-up is well how do I do that and then the second half is learning about
kind of authentic leadership and marrying it marrying the two things together
So you've mentioned authentic leadership a couple of times. And I want to delve into that a little bit.
So by definition of perhaps this course, how would you define authentic leadership
like for yourself or what you learned out of this course?
Because we do hear, I think Jackie was. She did. I listened.

(17:17):
Self. So in your own core A words, what does authentic leadership mean you?
And how do you try to embody that when you show up for your team and your people
and really put your most truest self forward?
I think it starts for me with the concept of you're the same person no matter where you are.
So instead of having... You mean between life and work? Between life and work, yes.

(17:38):
So the person I am with my friends is not meaningfully different than the person I am at work.
Like I am one human being going through life.
Like to me, that is authenticity in many ways. That means I'm fallible.
I'm gonna make mistakes. It means I'm doing the best with what I have.
It means I love these things. I'm good at this.
Like I am varied as a human, right? And at any given moment, I'm just putting that.

(18:02):
Out there. And I'm not trying to mask. I'm not trying to pretend.
A lot of leadership, and I did this when I was younger, you're just trying to
figure out what they want and give it to them, right?
Like, this person wants me to be more assertive, so I need to be assertive.
And by they, you mean the team that you're managing or leading.
The leaders that are telling me messages, either explicitly or implicitly,

(18:25):
this is what a leader looks like, or this is how I need you to behave in order
to be rewarded. supported, by moving up by getting more, you know,
projects, whatever the case is.
And so you kind of like internalize these messages. And all of a sudden,
you are not the same person at home and work anymore.
It's like you've kind of morphed into this other person.
And in my life, I definitely got to that place where I was like feeling like I was making choices.

(18:50):
And I was behaving in ways that did not feel good to me anymore.
And I didn't like it. And it was just it was like I'd gone too far to where it just wasn't me.
And it was so far away from what I would think of as that authentic self that
I needed to make a very kind of hard pivot and correct that.
And I made a choice actually coming to work with you at Tableau that I was not

(19:14):
going to be that leader anymore.
Like, I was going to show up and I was going to be me and it was going to succeed
or not. So I was just kind of like, we shall see how this goes.
It'll be a little experiment. I hope they like me.
And and it felt amazing
because you stop wasting energy in places
that don't serve you or it helps you find the
people that do right it's like so really was it felt

(19:37):
very risky at the time a little bit but i was just so over doing things that
felt bad so technically then i i got to know the authentic corey you did coming
into work with you yes versus the version that would have been before we came.
Oh, wow. So that's a real gift.

(19:57):
It was already a gift anyway to work with you and then for you,
but that that was part of how you approached being a leader because one of the things that I learned.
Talk about, and I've talked about it, I think, probably in multiple episodes
on the podcast, but this idea, and this is something that I talked about with
Jackie, right? So you have a lot of blue in you, right?

(20:18):
Solid blue, yeah. Solid blue, right? And for those who are listening and going,
what is she talking about with Jackie?
So we did a share the chair episode with Jackie Yaney, who is a CMO and ex-CMO
now, but we talked about styles of leadership.
And if you have worked in a corporate structure, generally, this might also

(20:39):
exist in non-corporate structures.
Sometimes they will do courses where you identify the kind of leader that you
are by color or by letter.
I've done one. And blue is funny.
Sometimes blue and green are flipped. But in this case, when we're talking about
blue, we're talking about an emotionally grounded leader or a leader that leads

(20:59):
with an emotion, not in a bad way, but in a trying to find a common ground amongst people.
Because typically we have leaders, especially C-suite level leaders that are
what we call Taipei, right, or super red.
So they are very direct and they're very this way, that way, short, whatnot.
That's not a bad factor to have. Jackie admitted she has to have some red in her to be a leader.

(21:24):
And I do believe all leaders have to do that, but they don't necessarily have to lead with that. Yes.
So showing up as authentic as you are,
that seems very tied to the person that, well, I should say that if that was
where you were trying that out for the first time,
I can say that that was, I certainly benefited from having somebody do that

(21:47):
because I don't know that we often get to have the benefit of seeing a leader
be exactly what they appear to be.
And in this workshop at the Harvard version, did they...
I guess the question would be how, if you are not good at that, how to do that?
How to give yourself tools to do that if that's not in your nature?

(22:08):
It's a really good question. I remember that we did, there was some of that.
And I think the biggest tool is awareness.
Like just being aware. Aware of yourself. Yeah, exactly.
It's just like any other habit you're trying to change or behavior,
right? where it's like you go through that cycle where you're like, oh, I did it again.

(22:32):
Like I want to change the behavior. And then you catch it after,
right? You like do the behavior and then you're like, oh, darn it.
And then eventually you're like, I'm doing it right now, but I can't stop,
but I recognize I'm doing it.
And then eventually you get to catch yourself a little earlier and a little
earlier, and then you stop doing the behavior.
It's similar to that, I think, where it's just being aware that you are uncomfortable

(22:53):
and why that you're doing things that don't, you wouldn't have done in another
situation or that doesn't feel right.
It's like you kind of just, I think awareness goes a long way.
And one of the things actually that I learned that resonated the most with me,
because I am a bit of a perfectionist, bit of massive people pleaser, goes with the blue.

(23:14):
And it's a heavy burden.
It's not a bad thing though. I can't like, Like, as somebody who's seen it,
I can't say that's a bad thing because there is something that your energy, we as,
let's say, the foot soldiers that maybe report into you or work within the org,
we respond to that energy.
And if it's authentic and it's you and it's true you, true blue you,

(23:37):
then it can affect us in a positive way as well. So, yeah.
Well, and I feel like, I mean, one big aha moment from there is the fact that
authentic leadership, there's no finish line.
Like that really hit me because as a constant evolution and growing and trying
and it never, ever ends. Like there is no, there's no trophy.
It's no finish line. No one's like, congratulations, you made it.

(24:00):
You know, like that never happens. You just practice living and leading as what feels natural.
And you still, I mean, you don't, you know, you're still trying to be better
and learning what works.
It's not that you're not focused on being a good leader. you are,
but you're trying to do in a way that really honors you and your strengths.

(24:20):
And just knowing that it's like, oh, man, you're right. There is no trophy.
There is no finish line. So like, I'm going to do the best I can.
And then when I get new information, I'm going to do differently and better,
you know, and you keep doing that.
And it gives permission to be a bit fallible to not always do it right to pull
people in a room and be like, we're gonna do the thing and then be like, oh, bad call.
You know, like, that's okay. I did the best I could. you know

(24:43):
you've often told me when i've been super self-critical
and there were a couple times my second guest and
you've said something you did the best with the information that
you had at the time and that's all you can do yeah and as
a fellow perfectionist and somebody who's often very self-critical i found that
very reassuring because sometimes i don't know that we often get that from someone

(25:07):
that's you know leading the way for us to kind of give yourself permission that's
It's one of our mantras that we love here on the podcast is give yourself permission
to know you did the best that you could,
even if maybe it didn't lead to the result that you wanted or it didn't lead
to winning or perfection or the magical thing.
So you were always very gracious at doing that and now hearing this message.

(25:28):
Journey that started as part of this
finding your purpose workshop kind of
reiterated that and made that become sort of
how you message that to folks like myself absolutely and
it creates empathy too because it's not just for you as
a message to you but you know when you think about that as how other people
are behaving or making choices like it's there's such a kindness in that of

(25:52):
everyone is doing the best they can with what they have and so if you're all
in this together and you're working side by side and something goes crazy and sideways,
like odds are they're just doing the best they can with what they got.
And if you give them different information, they might choose to do something different.
And that grace, I think, is really important if you're all trying to build something
together just to create that empathy across groups because business is imperfect.

(26:17):
Like we rarely have all the information in all the ways. Like there's so much,
so many gaps, so much imperfection there.
And so it just helps as a way of framing things to give each other space and
grace and keep things positive as best you can.
Yes, all the things. So Core A does say all the things a lot.

(26:37):
I'm sure there are those of you out there that say all the things.
And I feel like I've adopted that now. And I say all the things.
Do I say that all the time? I didn't realize.
All the things I probably do. You always are like, da-da-da-da-da-da, all the things.
Yes. And I kind of love it because it's like, instead of saying yada yada or
whatever, it just feels more inclusive of like all the things,
you know, and all the things.

(27:00):
So you do this workshop in 2020 when
all of us were locked alone and trying
to figure out our lives or making sourdough bread or whatever
we were doing to get through this very unique moment
in world history and you complete
the workshop and then when did

(27:20):
you have the inkling to be like i want to i want
to do i think i want to bring this into tableau at the time because we i don't
feel like i had ever had access to a workshop like this and credit again back
to jackie because she She was actually quite good at bringing in, you know,

(27:41):
town halls or roundtables that were – we did that whole thing with Dr.
Karen, right, that whole year of how do we deal with this very stressful period
of time where we've shut down, we're not talking to anybody anymore.
Were you inspired at all by like that leadership? Was it just something that
you were going, I think I can contribute coming out of feeling already that way from the workshop?

(28:05):
But did you go, hmm, so let me go.
I want to do this. Like how long was
that moment of like, I completed the workshop. Now I want to bring it in.
I think I wanted to do things with it even before I'd finished it.
Like it just, I got so much energy from it.
And I have to credit, I mean, so many things from Jackie and other honestly
amazing female leaders we had at that company that she created an environment

(28:30):
where that was welcomed.
And so we would do all hands kind of virtually, right?
And we would have topics and it was like, call for topics, like who want,
the intent of it was not, it was to have a blend of business and health and
like in community and meeting of the minds.
And it was very like, she created just space where a topic like that had a place to land.

(28:55):
And then Jen, who was my other like, just amazing family leader of a boss.
Jen Day, if you're listening, we love you.
You probably are. And you should be on this podcast as well. Yes.
Look out for that, Jen. I'll be reaching out to you for that one as well.
But yes, we worked under Jen Day, under Jackie.
So for those that don't know our work structure that was. I know at this point.

(29:17):
Just helping everyone follow the dots.
Oh my gosh. Jen is amazing as well. And she fully supported it.
I brought her the idea and she was like, run with it. Like, sounds like something
everyone could benefit from.
And again, just created space.
And then I took that energy and I tried it out a little on a lunch bag here and there.
And then when people seemed to like it and it felt like there was some momentum

(29:41):
and interest, then I was like, all right, well, let's just try it.
So, yeah, I put together a three-week course, essentially.
Wow. Because it was not that. It was two days, right? Or what did we do?
No. Well, no, the Harvard course was like four months. Right.
So I had to truncate all of that. That's right. It was three weeks. And it was three weeks.

(30:02):
Because this is work. I'm just like, volunteer some time. I'll spend a couple hours. Because we met.
Yes, that's right. We met. It was three weeks and it was two hours per week.
And then I did two sessions. one for our east
coasters west coasters like for time difference time zones
because we had some folks around the world that wanted to join and and
I was just like okay we're just gonna do this it's gonna be

(30:24):
a journey and I tried to just do my best to take
what I had learned and modify it so it could be done quicker and there's benefits
and you know pros and cons to that but it was really fun though like I it was
cool to try I had never done anything like that I mean I presented and things,
but I never like ran and did a workshop.

(30:45):
I mean, I spent hours on the weekend building those slides.
It was very good, folks, I have to say, as someone who participated in it.
And I think, I think to frame this for folks too, we were really,
and sadly I feel like we're not doing this anymore.

(31:06):
It seemed to have fallen away. We were very focused on everyone's mental well-being at that time. Yes.
Because we had had this pandemic happen,
and it was taking a toll by way of a lot of different reasons,
but mainly a lot of us were separated from people that we loved and couldn't
see, and there was this effect of being sort of.

(31:30):
Distant and the the toll that
it took really and so a lot of
us i feel now i'll speak only for myself coming into
that this was november 2021 it's very
distinct for me because i think it was the first time that i really felt
like i was kind of headed into depression or depressive state
because we were coming out of okay the

(31:52):
first year we were locked down then we kind of went through sort
of there's some hope right with maybe the vaccines and stuff
but then that didn't quite kind of come together the way we thought
and we're sort of like well we're not out of this yet right and regardless
of whatever your stance was it kept going right
this this thing this new way of existing and weirdness and all this kind of

(32:12):
stuff so for some it was a I felt like it was a light and a beacon to be like
let me rethink about what what makes me happy right what fills up my cup what makes my heart,
you know, beat fast and be amazing.
I have to mention as prepping for that and coming out of the Harvard version

(32:35):
that you were coming in at a time where not only was it encouraged and welcomed,
but it was probably really needed because we were all just not what we once were.
No. And I mean, it was a global reevaluation of life.
Yeah. Right. Like, what does it mean? How do we function?
What do I like? What am I okay with? What am I not?
Yeah, we were we're all doing that together. And so I do think there was some

(32:59):
odd kismet for me on having bumped into this at that particular time.
And then having the opportunity to bring it to other people when we were kind of all evaluating.
So that was part of what I found so interesting with it is I was so much happier
now that I'd started to kind of lean into this, just being myself at work and
trying to lead in a different way that felt better.

(33:22):
And then finding this like, you know, bumping into this bucket list course thing
and having a name for it. Oh, it's that.
Okay, cool. And then having this purpose idea.
And what's interesting about purpose too that I think is good to kind of define
is that the purpose in the way that we're speaking about or in the way that
I kind of learned about it is about finding that like Venn diagram of your.

(33:44):
Unique talent and what the world needs.
Yes. Which I think is like, like if you think
about up that for a minute that's really interesting because it's like everyone is
unique everyone has some way of
viewing the world a gift something something like a strength like there's just
something unique that is a talent of yours and then there's things that the

(34:07):
world will benefit from and if you can find that overlap that is your purpose
like that's the thing that you have you are naturally gifted, enjoy,
passionate about, and it serves a purpose and there's a need. And,
And that's what's particularly cool about it, because it's not just about you in isolation.

(34:28):
It's about you in context of other people and the world and the broader universe,
however you want to say it, and where that comes together.
And I think that's what makes it powerful, if you think about it in that framing.
So it's less about like, why am I here?
It's what do I have to give and what do people need?

(34:50):
And being able to put that together. And going through kind of the steps to
identify that, right? Exactly. And articulate it.
And articulate it. And articulate it. Yeah. Because that's the hardest part.
Like that was where, and that's where like even when I was doing the workshop,
like I was trying to build in space because like this is hard brain thinking stuff.
You know, you need to grab a notebook and walk on a beach and like,

(35:11):
you know, take time to like noodle through all of this stuff.
And it was four months versus three weeks. Yeah. And so I was trying to be like,
okay, guys, we're going to get some real quick insights.
You're going to put some words together and and
then the words hopefully will get you
in the right direction because I didn't necessarily think it's
you know some people are going to get lucky and land on it and others were

(35:34):
going to continue to workshop but it would at least get you in the ballpark in
that amount of time of like okay I feel like I'm getting somewhere but the
words are important because it should be something that can become a
mantra something that you can kind of like come back to
like a lodestone in touch every time you feel like you're getting a
little off stuff and the idea too is it's not work
it's not non-work it's something that prevails across

(35:56):
all of those things so if you find a way to apply it to work you find a way
to apply it to your personal life like it's all the same and it's just a guide
to help you make decisions to help you just kind of ground yourself and I love
that because I think it feeds back into that idea of being the same person like
whether it's work whether it's volunteering whether it's home.
You're the same and so this purpose is the

(36:16):
same as well and then it just manifests you
know differently as in the different options as they come to
you right and i don't know at least
for me i don't think i had ever thought about
it quite that way or gone through the
exercise right we all have these things that we know we love to do
or that bring us joy and happiness but the

(36:38):
component of how does the world what's the need
in the world like how does that match and ladder yeah
that was the call it
the eye opener or kind of the connect the dot moment of you
can have this thing but then how does it contribute out into the you know the
sphere yeah into the ether as it were right and that what does the world need

(37:01):
can be very grandiose and it can be very humble like it very much you There's
a wide array of being able to interpret that,
which I think is really beautiful, too, because some people find that their
purpose and where it overlaps with that need in the world can be very focused in their thinking.
In towards a person, a thing, a topic, something small and close.

(37:25):
And then there's others that are like, it ties very much to a big world problem.
You know, like there is no right or wrong there. It's about finding again,
that marriage of where you have something unique to contribute.
And then what's the right kind of altitude, I guess, of world need,
where and how is that that you can connect to?
And share it out. And share it out. And share it out. Because you've talked about.

(37:47):
Sort of doing the deep work right so imagine you you did
the you did four months worth of this right so i
have a question here of what is what kind of challenge did that work in the
original harvard shop do for you so the idea of the things that it really made
you think about your venn diagram moment what was maybe the hardest part of

(38:10):
the most challenging part of that for you You know,
there are two parts that were really interesting when I think back to that.
The challenging part was connecting the dots because you gather a lot of information
and it's all feels very kind of like scattershot.
You know, it's like I take personality tests and they tell me these things.
I think about what I did when I was young.

(38:32):
What do I love doing? Right. Like we had you surveyed people around you so that
they could show you another way of seeing yourself basically.
Right. Like what are your strengths?
You know, what's the one thing that you go to Courtney for that you would like
specifically choose her to talk about, you know, or to talk to about like,
those things are really interesting.

(38:53):
Like when you start to frame some of those questions and then you get all this
information and you're like, what does it mean?
So the connect. It's like the eight ball. What are you trying to tell me?
What is this? And so that's the hardest part is like, okay, I gotta to somehow
turn this into a statement that hits me emotionally.

(39:13):
Because I think I started off with these very long adjective-driven incomplete
sentences, trying to like, I don't know, love people and this and this.
And it was like packaging everything and then stripping out words, trying new words.
The connecting the dots and trying to put words
to it that felt meaningful full was really like

(39:37):
wordsmith the words yeah that was the
thing the wordsmithing the words was the hardest because you're trying
to capture so much and figure
out the way and we had a lot of conversations to talk through with people and
try and get feedback and thoughts and and it was it was that was hard that was
definitely like where I think a lot of the hard work came in and also the other

(40:00):
piece that was really challenging is that and I think everyone and ran into this,
where there were examples where they got feedback.
And they were like, I wouldn't have considered that a strength of mine,
you know, or like, like, it's really interesting when, when people say something
and you're like, huh, that's a strength or that matters.
Like, I didn't know that matters.

(40:22):
Like, like a good example of one of mine was, and it was just something I recognize
myself as I really love a good one-on-one like I love like at work. Yes.
I can attest to that. I do. I love a good one-on-one. Yeah. And I like one-on-one.
And I love groups. I'm an extrovert down for being in large groups.

(40:42):
But there is something special when it's just you and one other person.
And at work, I would always solve problems by finding one person and going having
a conversation with that person. My instinct is never to get everyone in a room.
It's to get the one person and me being besties on this issue.
And now we can go figure out what to do with the broader group.

(41:03):
And I called that out as an interesting way I work, I guess,
a little bit. And I never, I always kind of thought of that a little bit as
like a weakness in a way where it was like, or just couldn't I be more efficient
if I got everyone in a work, you know, in a room?
Is this me just avoiding having a bigger audience that I have to be in front
of? Like, I don't know what this is, but I have this weird instinct.

(41:25):
And talking to my, like, my little group that were helping to workshop things, they were like.
I think that's really interesting. Like that one-on-one, like there's,
there's like importance there.
Like that's not a weakness that is, or something like, it's not weird.
It's like, there's actually a strength there.
And it helped me kind of tease apart a little bit.

(41:46):
Like, okay. Like I never would have thought that was something to peeve and pay attention to.
And they were like, no, I think there's something important here in this one
little nugget about yourself and how you like the one-on-one keep going.
Like they were just kind of like, keep going, keep exploring that.
There's something there. Pursue that. I can say that.
You always say make friends, right? Go make friends.

(42:06):
That was something that you encourage all of us on the team to do.
So if we had a question or something that we needed to solve,
we could look up somebody or you might be able to help direct us and go talk to this person.
And I would also agree that is a strength because as a project or program manager.

(42:28):
Sometimes you have to get to the bottom of something very quickly.
And it's not time effective to bring 14 people under a room and decide by committee.
You have to be targeted by who's the person that can really make the most impact
here, can maybe answer the question or cover multiple rounds of something to
get to the bottom of something. And I saw that in action.

(42:51):
So if it was called out as a strength as part of this workshop for you, I would second that.
Because I think it's maybe not instinctive for everyone to think that way or
to focus your energy one-on-one like we're sitting here right now.
Now, but you can often have some of the most enlightening, I feel,

(43:15):
and rewarding conversations that if you're looking for a solution for something,
you get there, but also just personally, right?
You connect with the person, you build rapport, you know that you can go to them next time.
There's other sort of add-ons that come out of building relationships that way.
And we call that the, ah, there's a term for it. It's like the back channeling kind of, right?
I don't even know I like that because it feels like you're doing something illegal. I know,

(43:37):
they make it it sound bad but sometimes it's good it's important to
build relationships with people regardless of when
you need to lean on them or not yes and not only
build a relationship with them if you need something from them because
then they always know you're just coming to them because you need something
versus you're genuinely trying to build a partnership with them and then they
could help you long term so one-on-ones are a way to do that or we call them

(44:03):
like coffee intros go have coffee with someone, right? Or something like that.
So that was the challenge question, right? What did it make you think?
But what surprised you through this process of the workshop?
And also bringing this in smaller.
So you went through it yourself.
It was the big one. What was the surprise there? But then you also brought it to us, smaller scale.

(44:28):
What was the surprise, both as a student and then as the instructor?
The part that surprised me the most and part of why I think this work is really
kind of amazing in the broader class was you had this diverse group of people
who did not know each other. Right.
And in very quick order, we were going very, very deep.

(44:49):
On like life stuff. Yes, because it's all connected. Right. So what makes you tick?
What makes you? Yeah, I mean, legs, legs. Right. And we had a group and I tried
to do this with ours to as best as I could given constraints.
But you get a buddy system of sorts and you're all there to support each other and build.
So it's and create a safe space. Right. And it was amazing.

(45:12):
I was really, really amazed how vulnerable people got.
And it was so cool. Like it was really a beautiful thing.
How not just what your groups and how people could very quickly,
actually, like it's amazing how fast you get to know people when you are willing
to be vulnerable with them.
And we had just like amazing insights conversation.

(45:32):
But then at the end, you have kind of an unveiling of your purpose.
And like, there was there's a moment, you know, where you share it and all the things.
And I was amazed at how vulnerable the stories were, and how supportive people
were, like, it was just really powerful that we're in, we're in Harvard,

(45:53):
business, something, something, right.
So we're all like, like business people, like leaders, you know,
like, and you're so used to having a certain shield or a mask.
Yeah. Right. And then it's like, you know, we're hearing about people's struggles
with addiction in their twenties and how that taught them these things.
And then from that, they had this like, aha, and like, this is their purpose.

(46:17):
And now this is how they want to apply it.
And you're just like, wow, like, I can't believe that in this random group of
like 40 people, you know, that by Zoom, all by Zoom, you know,
we're having these like really deep conversations.
I mean, there were it was like laughing and tears and like the whole thing.
And I was just so amazed by it. And it just made me really realize the power

(46:39):
of what you can create through like environments, really.
And that kind of gets to where, you know, what I learned about myself and my
purpose is it's it's about creating environments for other people to create in.
Like I want to be that safe space. This is where I feel like I have that unique ability.
And it was such a good example of what I wanted to create for people.

(47:03):
So that was such a cool moment. And then when we go to the workshop.
I was honestly, the most surprising thing to me was that so many people wanted to do it.
Because like, you know, again, it's the middle of, it's 2020,
everyone's having their stuff.
We're all working like crazy because you're adjusting, right?

(47:25):
It's all these unknowns, businesses are just like hustling all over the place.
And then I've got this group, this like amazing group of like 50 people who
are giving me two hours after work,
like extra time, you know after hours
to do this like soul searching like
you know it just that it amazed me i was very honored

(47:46):
and humbled that that many people wanted to be on that journey and that they
stuck it out for the whole thing too it was a pretty big commitment i was asking
for people and they did it and that was amazing it was as somebody who went
into it and took it it was Because to take a four-month course at Harvard,
translate it down into three weeks, and make it the same kind of meaningful,

(48:09):
safe space that you envisioned, I can absolutely say that.
Because we talked about that in our, so we had, as part of this workshop,
we did, you know, little folk, we did little groups that we would go off and
talk with. And we, very true, we got very deep.
We talked about some difficult things.
We had a multi-generational, multi-racial representation.

(48:34):
So how certain things have affected upbringings of other people.
Maybe if you are not white, if you are a person of color, if you are an underrepresented minority.
And these are, of course, people I didn't, right? Right. And I didn't know them
prior to the workshop, right?
So you did, as somebody who's took it, took that moment that you saw in the

(48:57):
big workshop that you were doing,
the Harvard version, as we say, and you created it unknowingly and knowingly
in some of the group breakout sessions.
You fulfilled that vision. I don't know if you saw it. You wouldn't have necessarily seen it.
Yeah, but it did actually happen. And it was one of those things where you kind
of, you left feeling better.

(49:18):
So even if we were doing it after work, we were looking forward to that time
in order to, for whatever it was going to reveal for us. And there was work that had to be done.
I remember having a really hard time figuring out what I wrote down,
but that was, I believe, the first moment when I started talking about
music and I started talking about the impact of storytelling which

(49:39):
has led obviously to the drumming journey
that i'm on and the jazz music journey that i'm on and the
podcast and the storytelling journey so think about
that for a second and we can attribute that back to getting crisp on those things
and how does that impact the world it's the magic of articulation being able
to put words to it yeah and it's not just kind of in in the ether yeah that

(50:02):
you're just trying to make up so not a great segue but i.
Sometimes the segues aren't great, but they do lead into maybe this is not a bad one.
But so if if you had to choose three words to describe what this particular
part of your life journey has done for you, what would they be and why?

(50:23):
So discovering and going after this finding your purpose workshop and then bringing it in.
But like as you court a sitting here right now and as part of this has been
part of your life journey, if you could choose the three words to describe what
it's done for you, what would those be?
It was very, it's very reaffirming, I guess is one word that popped into my

(50:46):
head, you know, just reinforced things that I knew I liked.
And it just like really sent it home for me.
I think it also, another word, it's funny, the word navigation is coming into
my brain because it kind of helps me.
It gives it's that lodestone concept where
it gives me a center to help me kind of navigate things

(51:09):
so whether it's jobs how I
show up at work how I show up with my family hobbies whatever
it gives me kind of this like guide you
know to kind of come back to and be like okay well if
it's not if it feels weird and it's not doing this then it's
probably not for me so it kind of helps just
I don't know gives me that that navigation I guess yeah

(51:32):
like without your north star my north star yeah without
knowing what the destiny the like destination is it's
like at least I know I'm on a clear path somewhere and if I keep following that
path it's gonna be good because that path represents everything I like that
is has a need you know that I can keep kind of serving to others with so so

(51:52):
reaffirming a sort of navigation navigation would be kind of two and three Yeah,
I think I'd say navigation, reaffirming...
Oh, just fun. I just enjoy it. Always a good work? Always good. Just fun.
It's just fun. It's fun to talk about. It's fun to think about.
It's fun to give people or help them have a navigation.

(52:20):
It's just because it's hard sometimes. You just get in your day-to-day and you just go.
Adulting is hard. Adulting is hard. And adulting also can be very myopic.
I'm just focusing on what's in front of me and I'm not really like logistics, laundry, whatever.
And having something that's bigger than that to remind you that you're actually

(52:43):
headed somewhere beyond the laundry is good.
Sort of getting out of going through the motions and thinking a little bit bigger than that.
Makes it bigger. Exactly. Because that's the point, right? It's that whole like
there's a need for this and it's like, okay, well, what's the need?
And that need, you know, in an ideal world, like if you really,
I think, land on something, well, it's something that puts a fire in your belly

(53:03):
that you want to go after and be able to pursue.
So it kind of helps orient you on that, I guess. Yes. Okay. Good words. I like those.
Those work for me. And they're true because I do sometimes think we get in our
own way or I'm too old or it's too late or there's,
you know, read off any one of the excuses or things

(53:26):
that we tell stories we tell ourselves right the stories that
we tell ourselves that could discourage us from these
discovery moments and these
discovery moments that lead to a feeling of what
is our purpose i feel like if we can encourage folks to know that it's all there

(53:47):
is there is that ability in all of us that's a good thing yeah and i think I
think it helps from a manifestation standpoint, too. Oh, yeah.
There's something about putting things out there as well as just like,
it will come back. Like, I can't. I mean, this was 2020, right?
We're a few years past that at this point. At the time of this recording, it is summer of 2024.

(54:11):
Exactly. Life has evolved. It has gotten busy. It is sometimes not busy,
like all these things, new jobs, new whatever.
And it's almost like I can't escape this in a good way.
It's like everything, it comes back. Like even if I lose momentum on it or I
have an idea around what I can do kind of in this zone around purpose or helping

(54:34):
people find their purpose and I lose steam on it or I'm like,
oh, that's not going to work.
Even if I walk away from it, it comes back and it doesn't always come back because
I'm bringing it back, just like you reaching out about this.
But I love that. And I think that's because finding your purpose weirdly snaps to my purpose.
And so I think it all just kind of feeds itself, which is really cool.

(54:56):
And I think that's just a good example of putting it out there and it just kind of finds a way.
It's always in the back of your mind percolating once you've gotten clear on
what it is. And then I think just even that being there kind of summons things to you.
Agreed. The whole idea of put it out into the universe, like the energy that

(55:16):
you put out is the energy that you get back. Absolutely.
And it's really hard when we're in a difficult space or a dark space to put out the right energy.
It is a challenge and it takes a lot of effort to do it. It does.
But it can shift your world when you You start to feel that positive energy
come back because maybe you've done something to help.

(55:39):
As my friend Vicki likes to say, like you haven't lost that little pinhole of
light is still there no matter maybe how dark it is.
And if you just keep walking towards it and going towards it and trying to continue
to make it bigger and brighter and then that changes kind of your mindset and
all of this. And stuff like this or participating in a workshop or going through the.

(55:59):
Exercises sounds wrong, but sort of the discipline to participate,
but also do the work. Do the work. Do the work.
That all is, there's something karmic about that and it does come back.
And so I'm glad that it's part of you being on this podcast.
That's part of that journey. Yay, guys.
So I would say, what is, we might have already talked about it,

(56:24):
but the biggest or the most important lesson that the finding your purpose journey taught you?
It can be either from your point of view or having done the deep dive workshop
or having taught it more shorter or both.
Like what is the thing that the lesson that it's taught you?
The lesson it taught me, I guess like honestly finding like knowing my purpose
was such a lesson to articulate it. Yeah.

(56:47):
And like that and then knowing there's value there.
I have found my own reason for being. and sometimes
we don't maybe we discover it later in life we
don't we're not we don't grow up with that i'm gonna
be this this is my purpose this is where
i'm going after from 10 years old sometimes it comes in the 20s in your midlife

(57:08):
wherever that is but once you find it it's a really big gift and also the biggest
lesson that you learn about yourself yeah and i think so few people i I think, have that.
Like, I think there are, there's a lucky minority who just come out with this
very clear, this is why I'm here.
This is my passion. It's in that direction.

(57:30):
Here I go. Right. I think that is very, I think that is rare.
I think the vast majority of us are just kind of cruising along in life,
doing the best we can with what we got. Yeah.
With the information we have at the time. We have at the time and we don't have kids.
A really clear, singular thing that's easy to articulate.

(57:54):
You know, it's almost like if it doesn't come pre-packaged in a kind of socially
acceptable slash readily available thing.
Like, I am here to save the environment or whatever.
Like, there's things that are just very clear where they're just packaged. I'm going to be a doctor.
I want to tend to people. I want to be an oralist. I want to serve in this specific
way, right? There's like kind of areas where that's awesome.

(58:17):
But I think the majority of us are like, sounds good.
Doesn't resonate, really, you know, but I maybe should, you know,
like, it's, we're just not there.
And so I think the work is the part.
It's like that, that helps you find out who you are, and then being able to
say that. And it also does not have to be grandiose, either.

(58:40):
Like, that was a big piece that they kept of going back to. They're like,
your purpose is not to save the world.
Maybe one person's is. The rest of you, it's something really valuable and important,
but it's probably not something you're going to find on like a cereal box, you know?
Like it's not going to be one of those like cure world hunger,
you know? Like probably not because if it was, you would know it already.

(59:03):
So understanding that it doesn't have to be that. It can be smaller, much smaller.
It can be much more individual or
individual family or individual community related
as opposed to like something really massive
or contributing to something really massive it can just be something in front
of you and it doesn't have to be something because there's meaning in everything

(59:26):
and so it doesn't have to be like this big contrived thing it's like even little
things have a lot of meaning to the people they matter to you know and so it's
allowing yourself to think about it from that perspective.
Like start small. Start small. And I think that actually opens the door because
that's what most of us are here for.
Like we impact the people around us. Like we're not all...

(59:47):
The Mother Teresa's, you know? And so we make a big impact in our space.
And it's like, so when we think about this and why we're here,
I think it's a good place to think about, like, what is that space?
What is that bubble? What is my community?
And then start there. And then let it percolate out. And then let it percolate out, exactly.
I love that. Because we can, even that's true with

(01:00:10):
something like when we set New Year's resolutions we go
super big you know and there's always there's something
to being able to set the smaller goals for yourself or
to start small and start with something small and
and build and grow from there and not try to boil the ocean as we like to say
and this should be something that ideally gives you energy when you think about

(01:00:32):
it yes so it's a goal you want to do yes right it's It's like a goal that the
process of achieving is a reward in and of itself. Not a burden.
Yeah, like that's part of, that's the difference. It's not like I want to be a thing in five years.
It's just a way you want to kind of live. And it seems so big and powerful,

(01:00:54):
but yeah, all we're talking about is words that mean something to you.
Like it boils down to such a simple thing. It can just be like three words,
like not even a sentence that just helps you go, oh Oh, yeah. Okay.
I love this. And it benefits people, places, animals, something.
So that, okay, that's my purpose. I love that. I love that.

(01:01:18):
All right. So as we round it down,
our tagline here on the podcast is navigating life one story at a time.
I would like to know if you have, and it might have been in here somewhere already,
So if we're going to repeat it, that's totally fine.
But the one key or go-to thing that has helped you navigate your life story

(01:01:40):
up until this point, it could be a mantra, it could be a ritual,
it could be a practice, it could be this workshop.
But if we think about your life on the whole, even before you took the workshop,
is there one go-to thing that has helped you navigate that? So there's one.
It's funny. There's a saying that I kind of like repeat to myself and I may
or may not have gotten a tattoo about recently. All right.

(01:02:06):
I love I've always said to myself, be highly agile.
And I know that, like, especially in your world, that means something very specific.
Okay, I'm not laughing at her
saying that. She's laughing because of her expertise. What was my title?
So I was a senior Agile PM.
So in the context of the business world of what that really means,

(01:02:29):
it is not what it means in life.
So I think it's actually beautiful.
And you were not the first person to tell me that, which is funny.
And also, just sidebar, right, the term agile and anyone who's studied it like
me is the most overused word in every organization.
And there is a lot of misunderstanding about it. So in this context,

(01:02:49):
we are not talking about it in a business sense.
We're talking about it in a life sense, which I kind of love.
Although I will say what I like about- You're taking Agile principles with you?
Sort of. So no, what I love about it, like it just, I always liked the word
Agile, like just in general, like a long time before it meant anything.
It's a little burned for me right now. I understand, but this is my word, not yours.

(01:03:13):
That's true. That's true. I use it and I'm like, oh yeah, this word is a little
rough right now, but I'm happy to re-embrace it as part of your life mantra.
I've raised it as mine because I, it's actually the story behind it is ridiculous, actually.
Please tell it. I'll tell you because it'll give you a new lens on it.
So story behind it. So we're going to go back in time.

(01:03:34):
In the Wayback Machine. Wayback Machine to slightly after college, way after.
And I moved into my own apartment and it was very quiet and lonely after being
with my parents and roommates and all the things.
And And I loved this kitty cat. She was my baby. She picked me.
She hated everyone but me.
As cats do. She was spicy and sassy. And she was just like, she was my buddy.

(01:04:01):
And I randomly saw this sticker. This is a ridiculous story.
Randomly saw a sticker like years later. And it was her. It was like a little
calico kitty, fat one. She was super fat.
On its back, rolled over, and it just said highly agile. And I was like, oh, my God, yes.
Like the juxtaposition of my spicy, sassy kitty, overweight,

(01:04:27):
laying there on her back, just like whatever, highly, highly agile and something
about, I don't know, there was something in that juxtaposition and like the
humor of it and also the fact that all life does is change.
That's right. And one of my strengths, just in general, and that kind of hit
home to during the workshop and stuff was I'm really good at change.

(01:04:51):
I enjoy it. I like it. I don't like being in the same situation all the time.
And I think I'm good at it.
And I'm good at navigating it. And so there was something just humorous about that.
And then the fact that it was like this cat who just ended up being like my person.
And that just somehow just kind of like followed me.

(01:05:12):
And then you fast forward to like work and like a business perspective.
And you're hearing the term agile all the time. I'm hearing the term agile all the time.
And also I have some of my proudest moments at work were tied to that word because
of the teams, my, you know, my ability to grow this team and have them embrace being agile,

(01:05:33):
not agile principles, but being agile, creating what we created together,
which is all about taking agile principles and then like bending it to our will.
We did. We did do that. Oh, we did it pretty well. And cheating around it,
which kind of was like the fat cat part of that sticker to me around the highly agile.

(01:05:53):
Like it's highly agile, but like our way. And so it just like ended up being
this cool little like means success.
It means my strengths. And it also is just kind of funny.
And somewhere in there, it just became like a little saying, just highly agile.
I love that. I now I'm going to rethink the term agile, not in the way that

(01:06:18):
I know it. Think of a fat calico cat. Yeah.
Well, and I'm a cat person, so I just love that it originated with a cat and a kitty.
So that just makes my heart very full and very warm. She understood me.
So it all it all makes sense.
I love it. We're going with it. Be highly agile.
And now I know a whole different lens that I see core a through a slightly different lens even more,

(01:06:44):
than I did before. So as you may or may not know, you have listened to the podcast.
So you do know that we end with our C-17 questionnaire, which is for anyone
who has not listened to Share the Chair.
We've modeled this after the Bernard Pivot questionnaire that James Lipton used
to use on Inside the Actor's Studio.

(01:07:05):
So we've, which is a great series if you can go find it now somewhere we're on YouTube or whatnot.
And we have done this with our own questions, but they are meant to be answered in rapid fire.
So we don't talk about them. You just first thing that comes to your mind,
this is what it is. So here we go.
What is your favorite lucky number? And if no number, what is your favorite

(01:07:29):
lucky item, object, or ch?
79. What is your favorite word or expression? we might just have covered that. Kyliet.
What or where is your happy place?
Oh, I have lots of happy places. I'm convinced I've lived in many different
lives in many different places. Yes. I have lots of happy places.

(01:07:52):
Can you have one that comes to mind? Dublin, Ireland.
I love it. What is the best life experience you have had to date?
I mean, cliched, but my baby boy.
No, we've had that answer before. Yeah. Or becoming a grandparent.
Yes. Babies are hard to beat.
What is the hardest life test you have had to face to date?

(01:08:18):
Oh, I think taking care of my aging dad is tricky. Yeah. That's a hard one.
I know a lot of us are in that spot.
Yeah. But that's a hard one. Yes.
What or who is your greatest inspiration? My mom. Love my mom.

(01:08:42):
Honestly, like I think that what popped in my mind first thing was just start with kindness.
Like just start there. Just start with kindness. Lead with kindness.
Lead with kindness. Like there's just never not a reason to not be kind.
And I don't know if they framed it in that many words, but that was very much
how my parents kind of brought me up.
It's like if you don't have anything nice to say, only massaged a bit to be

(01:09:06):
more alike. Just be kind. Just be kind.
It costs you nothing. Just start there. And then see how it goes.
No one will ever say we need less kindness in the world. Yeah. Yeah.
And if you just start there and then just go from there, wherever life takes
you after that, but it's a good place to start.
What is the best piece of life advice or wisdom you have given or shared? Make friends.

(01:09:33):
I can attest. And if there was one place in the world you could travel to tomorrow,
where would it be and why?
Oh my gosh, if I could go anywhere tomorrow, I'd probably go to Ireland.
I love Ireland. Yeah, that is okay.
So we've obviously done this as a more of a reflective episode of the Finding Your Purpose journey.

(01:09:57):
Are you planning on doing one
or starting one up that we could share information with folks eventually?
Yeah. So I'm open to any conversations on people interested for sure to learn more.
It's been a journey, kind of like I mentioned, it's like I I kind of pick up
pen to paper and start thinking about workshops or coaching.

(01:10:17):
And it all kind of like starts and stops.
And where I've landed right now is I actually want to do like an activity book.
So I've always had a little bit of an interest in writing, but I also do not
have the attention span to write like a whole book.
So I was trying to think of what could suit me, but would also like be a marriage

(01:10:37):
of all these things. And so I am in the process of writing that.
So we will see how it goes.
But something to help people and also just a fun expression of all these things
and something fun for me to just create.
So we'll see how it goes. See how it goes.
Well, I have no doubt that it will, as it comes together, it will be something

(01:10:59):
that will be massively beneficial to people.
And we'll just link to probably your LinkedIn for folks that want to reach out
and get to get to know you a little bit more.
I cannot thank you enough for wanting to do this. Well, thank you.
And very much like Jackie, this is actually the first time we've met in person. Which is crazy.
Since we were both came to know each other during the epic years of the pandemic.

(01:11:23):
So I sincerely appreciate your time and thank you. Thank you.
Music.
Thank you for tuning in to another episode of Life Notes from Chair 17.
Remember to follow and subscribe so you never miss an episode. We'll see you next week.
Music.