November 4, 2025 • 47 mins
Explore the art of transforming your backyard into a personal paradise with Mike and Trey Farley on the Luxury Outdoor Living Podcast. Learn about vinyl, fiberglass, and concrete pools, and understand the importance of pool depth, safety envelopes, and recreational functionality. Discover key insights on ledges, diving boards, hydraulics, and more, ensuring your pool is both beautiful and functional. Enhance your outdoor space and create lasting memories with expert advice on pool planning and design.
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00:00 Introduction to Luxury Outdoor Living 01:44 Types of Pools: Vinyl, Fiberglass, and Concrete 03:22 Pool Depth and Functionality 05:30 Diving Pools vs. Recreational Pools 14:58 Popular Pool Features: Tanning Ledges and Beach Entries 19:52 Special Pool Designs for Health and Accessibility 21:22 BBQ Bits: Grill Cleaning Tips 22:52 Umbrellas and Pool Activities 24:10 Minimizing Hard Edges in Pool Design 24:37 Balancing Activity and Relaxation Areas 26:46 Diving Boards vs. Diving Rocks: Safety Considerations 29:02 Calculating Pool Size and Volume 36:54 Hydraulics and Pool Equipment Placement 40:17 Filling Your Pool: Manual vs. Autofill Systems 43:19 City Regulations and Pool Features 46:30 Conclusion and Final Thoughts
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Intro (00:02):
Welcome to Luxury Outdoor Living Podcast with Mike and Trey
Farley of Farley Pool Designs.
For over 40 years, we've helpedhomeowners turn their backyards
into personal retreats, spaces ofjoy, relaxation and unforgettable
memories, and whether it's a cozy as.
Scape or a resort style oasis.
We design it all.
(00:24):
We know how overwhelming a projectcan feel, and nothing feels worse than
a homeowner having a bad experience.
And that's why after decades of designingand teaching in this industry, we're
here to share our knowledge, helping you.
The process with confidence.
Every week we break down designtrends and insider tips that
turn your vision into reality.
(00:45):
And since this is about creating somethingamazing together, drop a comment.
If you have any questions, ideas, orjust want to be part of the conversation,
if you find this helpful, a like helpsget this out to more people like you.
And if you want to keep upwith what's next, go ahead
and hit that subscribe button.
We'd love to have you along for the ride.
Let's build your paradise together.
Mike (01:12):
Good afternoon.
This is Mike Farley with FarleyPool Designs hosting the Luxury
Outdoor Living Podcast withmy co-host today, Trey Farley.
Awesome.
We have step five, that not ten five.
Five.
Step five is here, and the step fivefor your backyard design process is.
Pools.
The pool.
(01:33):
Yep.
Yeah.
Or it could be pools, pools, yeah.
Everything but the pool we've donemultiple pools and backyard backyards.
Yeah.
All that kind of stuff.
with our discussion of pools, okay.
There are many different typesof pools that you're gonna
build your structure out of.
So there's three main ones thatwe come across with some frequency
(01:53):
and in different parts of thecountry, you're gonna find that.
The percentage of this type of poolversus the other is going to change?
Yes.
Because of climate accessibility.
Materials and materialsthat are available.
So you have a vinyl liner pool.
Which is basically, a vinylproduct that you dig a hole in
(02:15):
and you set it down in the ground.
And that is not done very much inthis part of the country at all.
Trey (02:20):
No.
It's budget friendly,but lower durability.
Yeah.
Mike (02:24):
So in some parts of the country it is readily available.
When I first got in the pool industry,we used to see vinyl liner done a
lot in the rural areas because theydidn't have the capability to get,
gunite rigs out there and plastercompanies and those type of things.
you know, You get 120 miles froma, a metropolitan area and nobody
(02:44):
would go farther than that.
Yeah.
So, But today there's a large geographicarea that's covered with that equipment.
So vinyl's not as popular here in Texas.
So.
Fiberglass Yeah.
Is another one.
Which you have a particular shape poolthat's dropped into place and we have
someone that's gonna come and speakto us about fiberglass here soon.
We'll talk about thatin more detail later on.
(03:06):
So what we're gonna talkabout is a concrete shell.
Mm-hmm.
Which is.
Done of several differentproducts and we're not gonna
get into the products on that.
But there can be a dry mix and a wetmix, and there's pros and cons of that.
But we're not going downthat rabbit hole today.
No.
Okay.
So the first thing that most peoplewant to talk about when they talk
(03:26):
about their pool is, what do you think?
Trey (03:30):
How are you gonna enjoy the pool?
Mike (03:31):
Okay, so how are you gonna enjoy it?
the function of the spacethat you're going to have.
Which I think ties into a lot withhow deep your pool's going to be.
Trey (03:41):
Yeah, for sure.
Mike (03:42):
What do you think people will enjoy the most?
Trey (03:44):
The most?
It varies.
I mean, When we have our first meetingwith people, sometimes they think they're
just lock and step with each otherand they could have opposite opinions.
I would say there's probably more recpools out there than divers these days.
But we see 'em all and, and
Mike (03:58):
again.
Geographic areas will dictate this,which is gonna be more popular.
Mm-hmm.
But here in Dallas-Fort Worth I assessa lot of this goes back to the city
of Dallas had a code in place fora long time and they took it off.
Now, actually, they justput it back into place.
Mm. And that code stated you couldhave a pool from three and a half
(04:21):
feet to five and a half feet.
Yeah.
Or you had to go from threeand a half to eight and deeper.
Okay.
Or five and a half andshower, what about 3, 5, 3?
That's what, that works.
But you can't build a three foot to sevenfoot depth pool in the city of Dallas.
Really?
(04:41):
They won't allow it.
So what they're saying is yourpools fall into two categories.
You're either gonna dive into it Yeah.
Or you're gonna play in it.
And we're not gonna have youdo anything in the middle.
'cause you might get confused and do thewrong thing and end up in a bad situation.
Trey (04:57):
I mean, That's logical.
Mike (04:58):
Okay, so that was on the books for decades?
Yeah.
Okay.
So what happened is when I relocatedback to Texas, I was amazed at how
many recreational pools were done here.
Okay.
Because when I was in California,the most popular pool in Sacramento,
when I was doing 'em, now this was.
Long time ago Yes.
Was a three and a half to six and a half.
Yeah.
Okay.
(05:19):
But I come to Texas and they were like,no, three and a half, five, four is by far
the most popular pool in the Metroplex.
Yeah.
And so that's what gets built a lot here.
There are certain people that fallinto the diving category that want a
diving board or a platform or a rock,and they're gonna dive off of that.
And so they want eight.
(05:39):
And sometimes deeper.
We just finished one that was 12.
Trey (05:42):
Yeah.
Typically it's when they havefamilies and they want the
kids to jump in a certain spot.
Okay.
That's made for it.
So I'm gonna give you my speech for that
Mike (05:50):
right now.
Trey (05:51):
Oh, I already know
Mike (05:52):
it.
So you
Trey (05:52):
wanna give the speech don't build or design a pool for
something that's gonna change
Mike (05:57):
later
Trey (05:58):
on.
Okay.
So which kids
Mike (06:00):
grow up?
Kids grow up and theyleave and they leave.
Yes.
Okay.
And If you're gonna be in a housethree years designed for now.
Yeah.
Because that's what'sgonna work best for you,
Trey (06:10):
and it's people are gonna be in the same situation you were,
and they're gonna buy that house.
Mike (06:14):
Okay?
And so there's some people thatrelocate every three or four years,
and so that's all they're gonna be inthe house and they're gonna move on.
So, you know, If you've got kids that,and what I find is there's an age group.
this is how I describe it,basically elementary school.
Trey (06:29):
Yeah.
Mike (06:30):
In elementary school, kids will line up like lemmings and dive off a cliff.
Yep.
And that's what they'llentertain themselves all day
long going off a diving board.
Yep.
Okay.
It's fun.
And so if you've got kidsthat are in that age group.
You're gonna be there three years,then by all means, build a diving pool.
You all have a blast.
Mm-hmm.
Okay.
And what I tell all the otherpeople is go find the person that's
(06:53):
already built a diving pool andhang out there for those six years.
Trey (06:57):
Yeah.
Mike (06:58):
Because before that, you're not gonna want it.
And after that, you're not gonna want it.
Yeah.
And there's a lot more life thansix years in elementary school.
Yeah.
especially at my point, you knowthat was about a 10th of my life.
you know, what I tell people is, go.
Build a recreational pool becausewhat's gonna happen with a diving pool
is half the pool's over your head.
So what are you considering?
(07:18):
A
Trey (07:18):
diving pool?
Eight foot deep.
Mike (07:19):
The industry says a diving pool has to be at least eight feet deep.
Okay?
Now when I build one, I'mtypically building it.
Eight foot six.
I like a little extra insurance.
Yes.
I want it a little bit biggerand deeper and wider than
what the safety envelope says.
So when you have a diving pool,there is a safety envelope that you
should be building this pool to.
Trey (07:41):
Oh, you're saying you can't be, what, eight foot and then
just go straight up to three?
Uh,
Mike (07:44):
No.
Okay.
So there is a depth and there'sa slope coming out of the depth.
Yep.
so there's a certain length, there'swhat's called the glide path.
I'm gonna dive off.
I'm gonna glide the lengthof the pool and I don't wanna
smack my face against the wall.
Before I finish gliding.
Trey (08:00):
Just because it's eight foot deep doesn't mean that it's safe to dive.
Mike (08:04):
No.
So there were pools that were donea couple decades ago when I was
early in the industry, and it wascommon to build a 10 foot deep pool.
Okay.
Okay.
And you would have it 10 foot deep andthen you would have what I call the abyss.
Yeah.
The belly of the pool went straight up.
The belly of the pool went straight up.
so to a flat area.
(08:25):
And so you're at the top andyou got too close to the edge.
It was you slid off down into the abyss.
Yeah.
Of the deep end of the pool.
Trey (08:32):
Those always scared me as a kid.
I remember I would go to birthday partiesand then I'd be just walking around
and then boom, boom, I'm underwater
Mike (08:38):
going underwater.
And I. Slid down the, theski slope in the water.
And so what the industry realized wasnobody ever got hurt hitting the bottom.
It was the belly, it was the slope Yeah.
That people got hurt on becausepeople would run and dive off
the diving board and be like,look how far I can jump out here.
And they would splat their face ontothe slope of the pool and, yeah.
(09:00):
That was okay if they justsplattered their face.
But if they hit it hard enough, youwere going to do yourself bodily injury.
Mm-hmm.
And the first thing thathit that was your head.
Yeah.
That's not a good thing.
No.
So not a good look to wear.
what happened is the industry said,listen, we can come up with the four.
To the eight foot, but this slopehas to be much more flat and gradual.
(09:23):
Yes.
So it's a three to one slopecoming out of the bottom of the
pool going up to the shallow part.
And that glide path has to be 32feet long with a certain length
of board or a rock or a platform.
And here's where a lot of people.
Get squirrely.
They say this isn't a diving rock.
(09:44):
This is a jumping rock.
You're gonna jump off of this insteadof dive headfirst into this pool.
Yeah.
And so that for this pool canbe six and a half feet deep.
Instead of eight foot deep, and thisis not a correct statement, Uhuh, okay?
So am not saying that you can have ajumping rock any pool that you're jumping
(10:05):
off the side of the pool and any form orfashion and you're diving into, off of a
platform or a rock or or a diving board.
Yeah.
Okay.
So whatever you're diving off of,you're going to have eight feet deep.
Trey (10:18):
Well, Just imagine you have a child and he's, jumping in there.
He's used to his pool and he doesa cannonball well, buddy doesn't
understand and there's a rock and he'sa diver and he dives into the pool.
It better be built for him to beable to dive with that platform.
Correct.
And also, when you have that platform,I'm assuming the height of that platform,
you need to add to the depth becauseit's not like you're jumping off of the
(10:40):
the decking that's level with the pool.
Mike (10:42):
Correct.
If I've got a diving board, divingboards are usually somewhere
between 12 and 18 inches high.
Yeah.
And if I'm jumping off the edge of a.The concrete six and a half feet is
a nice depth to dive into, but if I'melevating what I'm jumping off of, I need
to add that to the six and a half feet.
So if I got a grotto that I'm drivingoff of and it's three feet tall.
(11:02):
Hmm.
Okay.
Because a lot of people are like,Hey, I wanna put a grotto down here.
I wanna dive off of this.
You're adding three feet to six anda half feet, so that pool should
be nine and a half feet deep.
Yeah.
Your glide path is longer.
'cause once you go deeper, you gottahave longer length to come out of it.
'cause it's a one to threeratio coming out of it.
So you're gonna have evenless shallow pool in that
(11:23):
pool from a length standpoint.
So the deeper you go, the less shallowarea you have in a swimming pool.
Trey (11:28):
It's also something good to think about when you do add a grotto and
it's not in a diving pool in general.
Because you need to know, Hey, you can'tjump off of this and do a cannonball.
Or you can and you can accountfor that because I've been on
grottos and jumped off and hit mytail pretty hard on some pools.
Yeah.
Mike (11:44):
So that's why I recommend to people to plant shrub roses all
around their grottos and encouragetheir kids not to climb, get on,
on top of it and dive off of it.
'cause it's not designed for that.
No.
First thing that's criticalis to establish the depth.
And so what a lot of people, afterthey stop thinking about it and
they realize half the pool is overthe head, a common trend today is
(12:06):
I wanna build them so they come.
Yes, I want them to come to my house.
I want the kids to invitetheir friends to my house.
I want my grandchildrento come to my house.
And so I want people to come to my house.
And so coming to my house means I wantto design it that has the most appeal.
Trey (12:24):
So when your kid is nine years old.
They'll enjoy it.
And then also when they're 17 inhigh school, because those vary
completely, 17 year olds aren't probablygonna be diving into a pool lining
up off of diving board typically.
So a
Mike (12:36):
9-year-old would probably like the diving board?
Yes.
Yes.
Okay.
So I'm gonna say the 6-year-old wouldprobably like a recreational pool.
Yeah.
And the 12-year-old wouldlike a recreational pool.
The ones in between wanna dive now,quite honestly I'm in the opinion
if you want them to come to yourhouse, you want them to come to your
house more when they're teenagers.
Trey (12:56):
Yeah.
Mike (12:56):
Then when they're in elementary school, as teenagers, therefore you want
to build a recreational pool, and I wouldrecommend a large recreational pool.
So they could have lots of fun.
Yeah.
They could play basketball and volleyballand it's not just three on three.
They could play six on six or eighton eight, and they've got plenty
of space to move around and play.
(13:17):
And if you do that, then they will come.
And I can attest to thatbecause we built that pool.
Yep.
And that pool we've talked about inother episodes got a lot of activity.
And that's generally gonna be the case.
And then as adults, whether youngadults or old adults, most adults like
recreational depth swimming pools tothe point, we're doing a lot of pools
(13:39):
today that people don't swim in at all.
Trey (13:42):
No.
They should look at 'em.
Mike (13:43):
Or they hang out at them?
Trey (13:45):
Oh yeah.
Mike (13:45):
As in just sit and, okay, so not look, not swimming.
Trey (13:48):
Like athletic, like laps.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Mike (13:51):
Or even swimming from an activity standpoint around they
just want to sit there and cooloff and chill and hang out and.
They'd rather die thanbreak a sweat in the pool.
This is a place of peace andtranquility that we're gonna
have in the outdoor space.
And by all means I need twotanning ledges instead of one.
Oh, so we haven't got tanning ledges, but
Trey (14:12):
anyway.
No, but like a 3 5 3 might workfor a lot of people, but if it's
a taller individual, taller familythat you might consider making
the depths a little different.
Mike (14:20):
So we did a, project up on a ranch last year.
Mm-hmm.
And it was a four or five.
Four, five and a half, four.
Yeah.
Because they were allsignificantly over six foot tall.
Even the ladies.
So yeah.
So the first thing that mostpeople are gonna look at is how
deep this pool is going to be, orhow shallow the pool is gonna be.
(14:41):
Yeah.
Now, Dallas.
Dictated that they won't allow a hybrid.
But there are a lot of peoplethat do like hybrids Yes.
that they're like I'm not gonna put aboard on it, and we just wanna jump off
the deck, or we wanna do a cannonball.
And so six and a halffeet's a nice depth to do.
So three and a half to six and a half.
So very common situation in some parts ofthe country but probably the most popular
(15:03):
thing in a pool is what I call a ledge.
Yes.
Okay.
Now a lot of people callthem tanning ledges.
Baja Shelf.
Okay.
Chaus Shelf.
Yeah.
And we've talked aboutthat on past episodes.
We won't go down that rabbit hole.
The ledge is different anddifferent parts of the country.
It is.
in the Texas market, most people'stanning ledges as they describe
(15:27):
them, are six inches deep Yeah.
Of water.
And the reason I call them a ledgeinstead of a tanning ledge is 'cause most
people today don't want to tan there.
No.
Although I did there is, but I had aclient today that was all about the
sun and the most about sun in the yardand the ledge had to be there and the
lounge chairs had to be behind it.
And so they wanted tomaximize their sun exposure.
Trey (15:50):
But we get the opposite as well, where they want as much like
coverage with umbrellas or whateverit is you're trying to build up shade.
Mike (15:56):
Oh, it was funny 'cause the sun lovers today were like.
Could we put an umbrella sleeve in herejust in case, because it's gonna get warm.
It's gonna get warm there, or Texas.
And what they're gonna realize is over aperiod of time, there's gonna be people
that wanna sit there in the shade.
And actually what they did alsowas they added a second ledge.
Okay.
Which is not an uncommon situationwith a certain style of pool, which
(16:18):
we'll get into in just a minute.
But we've got the ledge, and here inTexas it's typically six inches deep.
Now, ledge, lounger madea whole furniture line.
Designed around the six inch deep.
Ledge.
So they've got their signature andthey've got their autograph series.
Those are very popularchairs, but well, they also
Trey (16:37):
have variants where they're deeper and they can account to the
other different cultural depths,
Mike (16:41):
right?
So in California, the Baja Shelf is more.
Popular mm-hmm.
in the tanning ledge.
And there I've heard various depthsfrom 12 inches all the way to 18
inches from a depth standpoint.
Sounds great to me.
Okay.
You can sit a little bit deeperin the water you're sitting there.
And your furniture canbe adjusted accordingly.
(17:04):
'Cause much lounger aswell as several other.
Manufacturers now have all differentdepths that they can go on to these
ledges, which prior to the furniturebeing invented, ledges, I talked to people
and most commonly I did a four by six.
Which was big enoughfor one chair to sit on.
Yeah.
That was a common scenario.
(17:24):
I, I. Had nobody that wants a fourby six ledge in the last five years.
Yeah.
Most ledges are at least six feet deep.
Some seven, some eight, some 10depending on how much walking space
you want around your furniture.
Yes.
And, it's not uncommon to have a 12 ora 15 or an 18 or a 20 foot long ledge.
Trey (17:47):
Yeah.
You already said it.
The ledge is one of the mostpopular spaces because grandma's
gonna sit there and watch the kids.
It's a great place forkids to learn how to swim.
You can dunk 'em in and they'reonly falling in a certain amount
versus a deep end of the pool.
Kids will sit there and talk totheir friends when they're tired.
Parents will sit, just, peoplewill put their feet into the
pool right there as well.
So yeah, it's one ofthe most popular spaces.
(18:08):
And being able to have realestate to walk around all the
furniture is a you, need it.
Mike (18:12):
It's been endorsed by our dogs.
Yeah, dogs love it as well.
They think it's the greatest thing inthe world, you're gonna have a shelf now.
Old school, what you used to see a lotof was what we called a beach entry.
Yes.
I don't see many beach entries today.
Trey (18:27):
I love 'em, but yeah they're sparse.
Mike (18:30):
So with the more modern style design, the ledge works a little bit
better from a function standpoint,although I have done several
modern projects with beach entries.
Now, what beach entry's gonnado is instead of stepping in.
To the water and immediately beingsix inches deep in a tanning ledge.
Or 10 to, 18 inchesdeep with a Baja shelf.
(18:52):
What happens is the deck isgonna slope down to the water.
and it's usually at about an8% slope, is a nice slope.
Now if you do 'em too steep, theylook like skateboard ramps and
you're gonna twist your ankletrying to go walk down this thing.
Yeah.
But it's a nice gradualtransition into the water.
So what happens is the first,about four or five feet of
it's dry, 'cause you've got.
(19:14):
Two inches of coping and three inches oftile to go down before you hit the water.
And then it continues down allthe way and it basically, most of
the time replaces the top step.
Yeah.
So what happens is I need 10feet to make that work from a
mathematical standpoint and a lot ofbackyards, the real estate limits.
What can be done.
And so to add an extra four feet to theshell of the pool, in a lot of cases,
(19:39):
there's not enough room to do that.
But the beach entry was a nicething and you saw it a lot more
with the organic style pools.
In, in transitioning in.
Now I've also had clients that are likeI don't want a beach entry for the first.
Step, I want what I call a ramp.
Yeah.
And I wanna be able to walk all theway down to the floor of the pool.
(20:00):
And not have a step at all.
It's great for healthissues and stuff like that.
several clients that have had need for it.
It was because they hadreally bad arthritis.
Mm-hmm.
And their issue wasn't so much thestepping down, but the stepping up
to transition back out of the pool.
That became a big issue.
I also had a pool that I did for aquadriplegic and so they actually rode
(20:23):
the ramp down with their wheelchairand did exercises in the pool.
And then rode the chair back up the ramp.
And so when you do a ramp all theway to the bottom of the pool, you
gotta realize you're gonna takesomewhere close to 30 to 35 feet Yeah.
Of space to do that.
So.
The couple of times that I'vedone it, I've had big, huge pool,
(20:45):
shower end, and basically the rampwrapped all the way around from one
shower into the pool to the otherend of the shower, into the pool.
And so you were able to transition downto the four of the pool, and usually
you're starting more towards the middleof the pool with this going down.
Sometimes it's the, I've doneit incorporated several times
with beach entries as well.
(21:07):
But it takes up asignificant amount of space.
But for someone that, health reasonsthey need it, then it's a great thing
to allow them to get down into thebottom of the pool and enjoy the space.
Trey (21:17):
Yeah, it's a great way to reduce the.
Probability of falling withboth of those situations.
BBQ Intro (21:23):
We are gonna take a break here for a second and get into outdoor living.
So with outdoor living, we liketo go to barbecue bits here.
We're gonna share some information oneverything that you may want to consider
in your outdoor living space as far asfeatures, especially for the kitchen.
Hope you enjoy this.
Mike (21:41):
We don't want a disaster when we're done.
Sure.
How do we go about doing that?
And I'm not talking about themeat, actually, I'm talking
about the cleaning aspect.
Sure.
That's, that's not my favorite.
So is there any tips for that?
Bobby (21:54):
The tips or beforehand, before you start the grill up, there's, you
know, a couple things you wanna look at.
Get it hot, you know, brush it downreally good and keep it well oiled.
That will really minimize.
The, uh, disaster or the cleanupthat you have afterwards.
But to prepare for that, uh, remember allyour drip trays down below, regardless
(22:15):
if they're multiple level drip trays ornot, they should be lined with a foil.
So if they're lined with a foil, maybea heavy gauge shiny side down, so any
of the marinades or fats that drip offof there won't congeal into the pan.
You can change it when it's dirtyenough for you, but it will.
It will eliminate a lot of the, thegrease fires that we have inside of this.
Mike (22:38):
Okay.
BBQ Ends (22:40):
So I hope you enjoyed the barbecue bits that we just featured today,
and we'll have more coming up next week.
If there's something in particular thatyou're interested for, let us know and
we will get back into the episode now.
Mike (22:52):
umbrellas are really popular in all those spaces.
To the point that, I don't ever notfigure an umbrella sleeve for a tanning
ledge or a beach entry or a ramp,any of those things that I'm gonna
have a, an umbrella on somewhere.
Yeah.
And we're gonna look and figure outwhere that's gonna be the best thing.
Now sometimes there's multiple.
(23:14):
Umbrellas.
You gotta look at, what's gonna workreally well for people in that space.
When you have a shallow poolor a deep pool, there's two
extremes in uses of those spaces.
Yes.
So the first thing that a lot ofpeople want is they wanna be active.
And so with activity, we gottaplay volleyball, we wanna play
(23:37):
basketball, we wanna play Marco Polo,maybe we're swimming for exercise.
We want a lot of spaceto move around and play.
There's some things that absolutely,definitely don't want when we do that.
Yeah.
Trey (23:50):
A lot of steps and benches bar stools, anything that could
just get in your way or causeissues and you accidentally hit it
because you're trying to dive for avolleyball or something like that.
Mike (24:00):
Yeah.
Spiking the volleyball and impalingyourself with a bar stools.
No fun.
Trey (24:04):
No, it doesn't sound like a great time.
Tables as well.
Same concept.
Built the table,
Mike (24:08):
the corner of a table when I'm jumping around.
Yeah.
Hard edges.
So, With those type ofthings, we usually minimize.
All that.
most people want still the ledge.
A lot of times the ledge isrecessed off to the side.
Of the pool and there might be,instead of a perfect rectangle,
it's more of an L shape.
So we can pull the ledge off to one side.
So we still have a lot of activityspace in the middle safely.
(24:31):
And then we typically want somesteps and benches, but not too many.
Trey (24:37):
Yeah, and you see like some of the pools that will get bigger
in size, they want to have both,and you'll have like certain areas.
Like a footprint for a rec pool, but thenyou have your stuff on the side, like the
bar stools and all that kind of stuff.
Mike (24:49):
Yeah.
that can't happen.
There's people that want both.
They wanna have activityand they wanna relax.
Yeah.
And so they want the hybrid, sothey're gonna pick it up certain
things and they're gonna leave.
Certain things like tables typicallyare the lowest in priority with
most of the people that I work with.
Yeah.
But, bar stools are alittle more popular now.
(25:10):
I saw something the other day thatour friend with the, elemental
acrylic has come out with aremovable acrylic bar stool.
Trey (25:20):
Oh, okay.
Mike (25:20):
That's cool.
Yeah.
So we'll have to have him sendus some information on that.
So is it
Trey (25:25):
the whole, is it the column or just the seat?
The seat is acrylic.
Mike (25:28):
Okay.
And I'm not sure about thepole itself, but it probably
Trey (25:32):
don't want to install those if you're having crazy kids playing
volleyball right next to it.
'cause you might not see it.
You might not see it.
But it's still amazing.
Look, probably
Mike (25:40):
You've gotta figure the right balance.
'cause some people, the otherside on the relaxing side,
they want lots of those things.
Yes.
They want bar stoolsand they want benches.
I'm doing a pool right now andthere's benches on every side.
They want to be able to sit in thewater and visit with their friends.
They just want to chill.
It is funny 'cause most people long timeago used to sit on rafts and I guess they
(26:04):
had a lot of ornery children, like myornery children that used to tip us over.
So maybe that's why you don't seemany rafts is more, there's the.
Ledge, lounger pillow.
Yep.
The Lay's pillow.
That's a pretty nice one.
Trey (26:17):
The hammock as well.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Mike (26:19):
So there's certain things that you can float around in
that's really enjoyable torelax in the space of the water.
Trey (26:26):
I think people just built in seating in general, because I mean, when you think
about a lot of the jobs that we do, likenot in the pool, like built-in seating.
Especially if they'rehaving a lot of people over.
It's a priority.
So if you think about applying thatsame concept to the pool and having
the ability to have a lot of peoplein the pool and not just swimming
around and floating around, it'ssome people think it is a necessity.
Mike (26:45):
Yeah.
One question I forgot to bring upis, what do you think is safer?
Is it a diving rock, a divingplatform, or a diving board?
Trey (26:55):
Diving board.
Mike (26:56):
Why do you think a diving board's safer?
Trey (26:58):
Because you're deeper into the area.
'cause you have to walk out on theboard, which is above the water.
It's also built to have a specific space.
If you have a, diving rock I'vejumped off a lot of diving rocks
or just jumping rocks in general.
And typically what's gonna happen is,oh, I don't wanna just jump off the rock.
I wanna jump off the, this piece of copingor this rock waterfall or this grotto.
(27:20):
And if you don't have anything, youdon't have a certain spot in general
that's obvious to a kid or whoevermight be that's not familiar with the
pool that, that could cause issues.
So diving board, and alsoI have the cheat sheet.
I've heard you say this a million times.
Yeah.
Oh.
Mike (27:33):
The diving board puts you in the right spot.
It does, yeah.
And when you have a diving safetyenvelope, it's based on the right spot.
there's width to it.
So, I mean, Most diving envelopesare at least 15 feet wide.
Now there's some that are 12,but that's a, most people don't
want to dive off of that thing.
That's like a jump stand, whichis a stiff, there's no flex to it.
(27:54):
So yeah, most are 15, someare even bigger than that.
So we've got one.
That we're doing a woodendiving board on right now.
And that one has to be 18 feet wide.
Yes.
Because it's a eight foot on board.
But it puts you over the waterand like you said it's just
a, it's a safer situation.
Trey (28:13):
I will say.
The only time I think adiving board is not safe.
So this might apply to you, itmight not, but I've had a situation
where I went to a friend's houseand we installed a diving board.
This is when I was youngerand it was not intentionally.
Built for diving, like it was a deep pool.
Put the envelope, like you weresaying earlier, that incline
of the belly, it was not.
(28:33):
And so I dove into the pool and Icaught myself with my hands, but
after that I, I didn't dive afterit 'cause it's just not safe.
So same thing, like if you replacethe diving board and some reason the
next homeowner gets a bigger one orsomething like that, you just gotta
make sure you have the right envelope.
Mike (28:48):
Good advice.
So we've figured out the ledge, we'vefigured out, are we gonna relax?
Are we gonna be active?
The function the function of it.
So a lot of people are like, is there acertain size that you should do or not do?
And the size to me is dictated by.
All the other stuff thathas to go in the space.
Trey (29:08):
The amount of times we've heard someone be like, I have a
20,000 gallon pool is that big.
I have a 40,000 gallon pool is that big.
And it's it doesn'tmatter about your gallons.
It all varies.
Mike (29:18):
Yeah.
So gallons has to do withthe depth of your pool.
Yeah.
And the volume.
And volume.
But what's funny to me is there,people have sold people pools and told
them they have a 40,000 gallon pool.
Trey (29:32):
Oh, and they don't account for like steps and benches or ledges, and it's
really not a water mass of 40,000 gallons.
And I've
Mike (29:38):
done calcs on 'em and I'm like, this is a 26,000 gallon pool.
It's not a 40,000 gallon pool.
Trey (29:43):
Yeah, your chemicals are gonna be really high.
Yeah.
Mike (29:46):
But.
How do you prove that?
Most people don't know how to prove it.
So what's a bunch ofmath it's simple math.
Yeah.
Here, I'll give you the trick right here.
So you can check the personwho gives you gallons.
So you're gonna take thesquare footage of the pool.
And you're take the average depth.
Yep.
Okay.
So the shallow end plus the deepend added together, divide by.
(30:06):
If it's shallow and deep dividedby two, if it's shallow, deep,
shallow, divided by three, anyway,you're gonna get the average depth.
Multiply that by the squarefootage and multiply it by 7.48.
Yeah, because there's 7.48gallons in a square foot.
If you do that, that's your gallons.
Trey (30:23):
Or if they're showing you a pool studio, you can check it on a pool studio.
It'll show you the gallons.
It's pretty accurate if they
Mike (30:29):
put the depths in correctly.
Yes, Yes.
Yeah.
In fact, that's how we measure ours,because it's very accurate, especially
when you have steps and benches and allthose things that come into play as well.
But, yes, gallons is not agood way to measure the size of
your pool, but in some yards.
There's a lot of stuff that they want,and most people are like won, won all fit.
(30:52):
And so what you have to look at is,can we put all the stuff that you need?
Space wise with the proper sizes,and then see what's left and
Trey (31:01):
treat the pool like a void,
Mike (31:03):
Yeah.
The pool goes in the void.
Mm-hmm.
And we fill the rest of the yardup as much water as possible.
And then the space islike, wow, this all works.
Yeah.
I've got this nice size pool.
A lot of times they're like,I had North earthly id.
You could fit something in thissize and the space, but you've
addressed all the issues here.
Trey (31:22):
And also it'll make you realize if you do want a bigger
pool, then you have leftover.
It's like you gotta take something off.
Mike (31:27):
Correct.
So now the other thing is some peopleare like I've got plenty of room.
Yeah, I've got 10 acres.
We can fit it all in here.
Sometimes what you lookat literally is the scale.
Of the property Yes.
Versus the scale of the pool.
Yeah.
And if you put a normal pool ina massive house with a massive
(31:49):
backyard, it's gonna look likeyou put a postage stamp out there.
Trey (31:53):
Yeah.
It'll look tiny.
Okay.
In comparison, it's just the contrast.
Mike (31:56):
It's the scale is out of proportion.
Yeah.
So, I've done pools that are massiveto fit the architectural style
and the property that they're on.
They didn't necessarily need a poolfrom a function standpoint that
big, but it looked proper giventhe overall setting that they had.
Trey (32:13):
It's funny too, when we walk the job like on a precon and they'll
be like, oh this looks still smallcompared to the home, and it's like.
This is massive.
Mike (32:21):
So one thing that's a good question.
So when you walk a pool after you'vepainted it on the ground, the most
common comment is this is too small.
And the reason why is you're dealing withtwo dimension instead of three dimension.
Yeah.
There's no depth to this hole.
Mm-hmm.
I don't know how many timeswe've painted on the ground.
They say it's too small, we digthe pool, and they're like, wow.
(32:43):
It's huge.
Yeah.
So my dentist.
28 years ago said when we paintedon the ground, he is like, it's
too small, make it 10 feet longer.
I'm like, dude, it's already 45 feet long.
Yeah, you're talkingabout a 55 foot long pool.
And he's like, no, Ineed it 10 feet longer.
It's like, okay.
we went and dug the pool.
He came home and he's like.
(33:03):
what in the world?
You put Lake Tahoe in my backyard.
This is huge.
I had no earthly idea.
This was a total mistake.
I can't believe we did it.
Blah, blah, blah.
He's like, if anybody comes and tellsyou this again, you tell 'em to call
me and I'll talk to him about this.
And.
Contrast.
I did have one client that just was like,this just seems like it's too small.
(33:24):
We made it bigger, and they werethought it was great because they
had more space and a bigger pool.
Those are the only two timesit's ever happened, so I'm sure
there'll be a third sometime soon.
Now I'm sure the second
Trey (33:35):
really believes in or really believes in Blue Mind Theory.
Yeah.
Mike (33:38):
There you go.
Trey (33:39):
Yeah.
So
Mike (33:39):
you never can't have enough water.
now certain.
Sizes are gonna be too small.
Like you can't make a divingpool less than 32 feet long.
So you're gonna have a,have a certain space.
There are some people thatdesire to swim for exercise.
Yeah.
And so what they're lookingat is I want my pool to be a
certain length in, in size.
(34:00):
And I. Have done severalOlympic length pools.
I've had some people thatare just like, I needed to be
longer than a couple of strokes.
And what I think is a determining factorof this that you have to understand
and think about is how you swim.
Yeah.
So if you swim and have swamcompetitively and do a flip turn.
(34:22):
You're gonna do a flip turnand then you flip turn.
If you're bouncing off the wallsdoing flip turns, you're not
getting any swimming in your pool's.
Way too small.
Trey (34:30):
Yeah.
And there's a sense of accomplishmentas well, traveling that distance
versus having something likea treadmill in the water.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Mike (34:37):
Therefore, you probably are gonna need a longer pool.
So people that do a lot of competitiveswimming a lot of them, 42, 45, 50,
they want at least a certain length.
Now, if you do an Olympic.
I believe it's 82.3 feet.
Is an Olympic size pool.
'cause that's a 25 meter pool.
(34:58):
But we used to do 25 yards, 75 feetwas what we did at one point in time.
But, really the only time that's importantto people is if you think your kid's
gonna be an Olympian and you're doingtime trials in your backyard pool.
Yeah.
Which most people aren't.
There are even people that train at a highlevel, when they go to do time trials,
(35:20):
they go to the large facility and do that.
But there are occasionally some peoplethat want something along those lines.
Now the one thing to consider is youmay wanna look at creating a current, I
forgot to write that one down fast line.
You may wanna look at a fast lane.
And or you may wanna lookat a river flow pump.
(35:41):
Yeah.
Because those will create current.
And so you may only do a 35 footlong pool and create current
and swim against the current.
Yeah.
So that's an alternative.
Trey (35:50):
Also, I've seen where people will, design the regular pool and
then they'll have this little columnthat stretches really far out to
give them that lap pool effect.
If you're not a professional swimmer,having just the hard walls right next
to you and swimming that lap pool, Ithink it's a little dangerous because.
Not everybody swims completely straight.
Mike (36:10):
Yeah.
So episode 39 was the river flow pump.
Okay.
So information on that.
Yeah.
So as a point of reference checkingout, so we've got a lot of features
that we could add to a pool whichwe're gonna reference a lot of
episodes that we've already done thathave covered those type of things.
But the size is something that.
You gotta see what fits in your yard.
(36:32):
I've got one right now that I'mprobably gonna be drawing up tomorrow.
It is probably not gonna be morethan 22 feet long ' cause that's
what's gonna fit in their backyard.
Yeah.
But.
They'll be thrilled.
We just won a design award for asmall pool in a backyard that it
was eight feet wide and it was about25 feet long and that's what fit.
Yeah.
And plus a ledge.
(36:54):
So one thing that a lot of peopledon't ever talk about is hydraulics.
Big deal.
When you talk about a swimming pool, huge.
And we need to have somebodycome on and speak specifically on
hydraulics and that's a kind of aboring topic to a lot of people.
But if you don't have properhydraulics in a swimming pool,
you're going to burn a lot of energy.
(37:15):
And be very inefficienton how the pool works.
Mm-hmm.
It's probably just not gonna be as clean.
But there's bigger pipe isalways better than smaller pipe.
But you gotta pay for biggerpipe when you do that.
Yeah.
It's
Trey (37:27):
more work when you're drinking through a small straw than a big straw.
Mike (37:30):
That's exactly right.
And when I got into the business, peoplewould be like well, I'm using the big one.
I'm using a two inch pipe.
A two inch pipe is not a big pipe.
Okay.
there's people that are doinghydraulics that have two and a half, and
sometimes three and sometimes four, andsometimes six inch pipelines in a pool.
And it all has to do with the flow ofwater that you're moving and to the
(37:54):
size of the pump that you're using.
Mm-hmm.
To make that water flow efficiently.
So that's something that'sreal important to look at.
But one thing, just as a slight noteis where is your pool equipment going?
Trey (38:05):
It should be in your yard, right?
Mike (38:07):
Yeah.
They frown on if you putit in somebody else's yard.
Yeah.
actually we talked about treesand we forgot to mention one thing
about pool equipment and trees.
What's that?
So a lot of times people putthe pool equipment right on the
side yard up against the fence.
Yeah.
If your neighbor has a monster treethat's right on the property line and
you put your pool equipment there.
(38:29):
You're probably gonnakill your neighbor's tree
'Trey: cause you're compressing it and pretty much suffocating it.
Or you're
cutting all the roots.
Yeah.
Because of your, your plumbing trench.
Trey (38:37):
So I think a great place to put the pad is level the pool.
And I prefer below the pool,unless you're scared of freeze
damage or something like that.
Mike (38:45):
So if you put it level or slightly below, that's what's
called a flooded s section.
Okay.
So what happens then is your wateris always constantly pushing on
your pump and so therefore yourpump is very easy to prime up.
Yep.
Okay.
And your pump's also gonna be
Trey (39:05):
quieter and you also won't have to.
Rely on a bunch of checkvalves to prime up the pump.
So therefore, if for instance, if youhave a bunch of check valves and you
get debris, like you have a bunch oftrees that could clog up the check
valves and then your pump doesn't havewater in it because it's running dry,
Mike (39:21):
right?
Trey (39:21):
Yeah I prefer that
Mike (39:22):
Although you could have check valves required if it's
significantly lower than your pool.
Oh
Trey (39:28):
no.
If it's any lower than thepool, you'll need check valves.
But they're pretty much So when youdo open the baskets, the water doesn't
just drain outta the pool completely.
And that's why I said freeze damage.
'cause if you have freeze damageon the equipment pad and a pipe
breaks it, could create draining.
Yeah.
Mike (39:45):
If you have your equipment significantly higher as Trey said,
you're gonna have to have check valvesand you're gonna most likely burn out
pumps with that situation over quicker.
Over a period of time.
Yeah.
At a faster rate.
And it will definitely make more noise.
If it's higher.
Which you can walk down the streetsometimes in hilly subdivisions, you
can tell, yep, that one's higher.
(40:05):
That one's higher because you can hearit from the street that pump whining
trying to, pull the water up to itself.
Where the equipment's at and hydraulicsare very important to consider
when you're looking at your pool.
But there's another thing that'sreally important that a lot of
people don't talk about is how you'regonna get water into this pool.
To fill it up.
Yep.
Yeah, to fill it up.
(40:26):
That's a big deal too.
A lot of people are like you just
Trey (40:29):
throw a hose in and you fill it up.
But some people don't like theespecially when they're going for a
modern design, there might be somewives out there that don't wanna see
this, you know, yellow or green hosejust laying on their deck all the time.
So they might prefer the autofill route.
Yeah.
Mike (40:43):
So are there manual fills?
Trey (40:45):
Yeah.
You can do a manual feel whereyou, yeah, you explain it
Mike (40:49):
a lot of times people will come off the hose bib and they'll split the
line, and so they'll have a valve that.
Still works as a hose bib, but thenthey'll also have a valve that runs pipe
underneath the ground into the pool.
And manually you turn it onand manually you turn it off.
That way you don't have to drag out ahose that way you don't drag out a hose.
It's a permanent hose underneath the deck.
(41:10):
Yes.
Okay.
So the challenge with that issomebody's gotta turn it on and
somebody's gotta turn it off.
Mm-hmm.
And if you travel a lot.
You're gone for weeks on into summervacation and that type of thing, then
that becomes a little bit of a challenge.
You've gotta have somebody to do that.
Yeah.
But they might have to feed thedog too, if you leave a dog at
the house or something like that.
Trey (41:30):
Well, Also, depending on who's building your pool and what equipment
they use, if they're using skimmersthat are suction based solely and not
like a Venturi system If your pooldrains down a little bit more and
you forget it could be a big deal.
Yes.
Mike (41:43):
one thing also is in some parts of the country, they'll set the
autofill off the sprinkler system.
So some people don't allow that.
Some cities, in Texas about, 10years ago that was made illegal.
Yeah.
Can't do that anymore.
But in other parts of the country,that still is legal situation and
that's a great solution to get yourwater into versus a manual situation.
(42:07):
You just programming your sprinklerclock that it's gonna come on every week,
a certain day for a certain amount oftime, it's gonna put water in the pool.
Now you may waste water, you mayput water in, and it just rained.
Sometimes people have sprinklerclocks that monitor the rain,
so that's a possibility as well.
Trey (42:23):
Well, They do timers the same way on top of a hose bib what you were talking
about earlier, which it's the same conceptto just not coming from the sprinklers.
Mike (42:30):
there's a built-in autofill.
Which can be done which we do all thetime when we do a vanishing edge pool.
Yes.
That's something elsethat can be considered.
One of the big deals here in Texasis when we tap into the water source,
we have to tap into the water meter.
In front of the house.
So the plumbing run on this sometimesis several thousands of dollars.
(42:52):
Yeah.
So an autofill sometimes can be, three,four or $5,000 and people are like,
nobody talked to me about this, soI don't know if I've got one or not.
I can guarantee you if they didn't talkto you about it, you don't have one.
No 'cause they don't want to addthe three to $4,000 to the cost of
the project and then maybe lose theproject because they added an autofill.
(43:14):
Yeah.
But it's something you should bethinking about and understanding
whether you have one or you don't.
Another thing about pools that's reallycritical to think about is some cities
have certain requirements along with thepool and having to do with the depth and
proximity to the house one-to-one ratio.
Yeah, we've talked about that before.
There's certain cities that requireyou to be certain distances off of.
(43:37):
Accessory structuresthat you may be building.
You may have to be certain distanceoff the glass of the house certain
windows that aren't tempered.
So there, there's all kindsof things that, and every city
has different rules on this.
So you need to be familiar withwhat's allowed in your city.
And is possible
Trey (43:54):
also, if you have a heater, there's limitations where you
can put the equipment pad.
'cause if it's close to a window
Mike (43:59):
Carbon monoxide is a off.
Gas of a heater, which is notrecommended for us to breathe.
Trey (44:05):
No.
And by a window, I mean a windowthat opens, there's obviously the
bathroom windows that are really highup and our, they don't open at all.
Mike (44:12):
But you don't want to be running that outside your kids' window
while they're sleeping at night.
Yeah.
there's a whole lot of other featuresthat could be incorporated into your pool
Trey (44:23):
we have so many episodes that go into deep, like with
a lot of these features.
Mike (44:27):
Do you want me to just rattle 'em off?
Yeah, just go,
Trey (44:29):
go through it.
Mike (44:30):
Okay.
So there's automatic infor cleaningsystems, which were in episode 44.
Mm-hmm.
We have water features whichyou may look at in episode nine.
We talk about spas in episode 14.
Flow rider, if you don't know whatthat is, that's the surfing thing
that you see on cruise ships.
You can incorporate that inyour residential swimming pool.
(44:51):
And we talk to a flow writer on episode 51
Trey (44:54):
or build a pool for the flow writer.
Yeah,
Mike (44:56):
There's certainly people that do that.
Yeah, no, exactly.
Sure.
You could talk about a coverthat automatically opens
and shuts covers the pool.
In episode 85, We talkedabout vanishing edges.
In episode 15.
We talked about a knifeedge or a gutter pool.
In episode 40 or 16 wetalked about drop beams.
(45:17):
This is where the poolbecomes a retaining wall.
If it goes down, we call it a drop beam.
It goes up, we call it a raise beam.
That's in episode 46and Hillside Solutions.
We talked about acrylic windowsin swimming pools in episode 57.
Mm-hmm.
We talked about slides.
Dolphin slide was in episode 63.
(45:37):
We talked to sprinterwork slides in episode 76.
Two totally different typesof slides, but all fun.
We talked about a movablefloor for safety in episode 35.
We talked about.
Pool finishes on several episodes,but specifically we talked about
glass pools and episode 36.
(45:57):
Yeah, so lots of details on your swimmingpool that can be done, and we've tried
to cover a lot of these things and we'vegot more things that are coming up.
One of the things we didn't talkabout today was lighting in the
pool, which we will be talking aboutin the next couple weeks as well.
Trey (46:14):
Yeah.
On that list.
Also with the automation for the.
The cleaning system.
We talk about cleaners andcleaning systems in general.
And then also the same thing with covers.
We talk about different types ofcovers, not just automatic covers.
So just to preface, if you're wondering
Mike (46:27):
true hopefully step five.
The pool or pools in your backyard ishelpful information to consider on what's
gonna be the best situation for you.
Yep.
And we've got some more details that arecoming here soon, and if there's something
else that we haven't talked about thatyou are interested in, just let us know.
Sounds good.
Trey (46:45):
I hope you all have a good day.
Mike (46:47):
Take care.
Outro (46:48):
This show is all about helping you become a better buyer, a better pool
owner, and hopefully you're gonna findsome insights into how to enjoy your pool
even more so how to help your friends,your family, anybody looking to buy a
pool in the future or that want to remodeltheir backyard, add an outdoor fireplace,
fire pit, add an outdoor kitchen area, addsome shade cells, or whatever else it is.
(47:12):
We wanna be that resource for you, andthat's the end goal here, and we promise.
That there's gonna bea ton of information.
We'll try to go through it, youknow, as relatively quickly, but
also slow so people can understand.
But the intent of the show, thereason Mike and I are doing this
is because we just got a lot inour heads and we wanna share it.
So we hope to see youhere every single week.
Thanks for listening.
Welcome to Luxury Outdoor Living Podcast with Mike and Trey
Farley of Farley Pool Designs.
For over 40 years, we've helpedhomeowners turn their backyards
into personal retreats, spaces ofjoy, relaxation and unforgettable
memories, and whether it's a cozy as.
Scape or a resort style oasis.
We design it all.
(00:24):
We know how overwhelming a projectcan feel, and nothing feels worse than
a homeowner having a bad experience.
And that's why after decades of designingand teaching in this industry, we're
here to share our knowledge, helping you.
The process with confidence.
Every week we break down designtrends and insider tips that
turn your vision into reality.
(00:45):
And since this is about creating somethingamazing together, drop a comment.
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And if you want to keep upwith what's next, go ahead
and hit that subscribe button.
We'd love to have you along for the ride.
Let's build your paradise together.
Mike (01:12):
Good afternoon.
This is Mike Farley with FarleyPool Designs hosting the Luxury
Outdoor Living Podcast withmy co-host today, Trey Farley.
Awesome.
We have step five, that not ten five.
Five.
Step five is here, and the step fivefor your backyard design process is.
Pools.
The pool.
(01:33):
Yep.
Yeah.
Or it could be pools, pools, yeah.
Everything but the pool we've donemultiple pools and backyard backyards.
Yeah.
All that kind of stuff.
with our discussion of pools, okay.
There are many different typesof pools that you're gonna
build your structure out of.
So there's three main ones thatwe come across with some frequency
(01:53):
and in different parts of thecountry, you're gonna find that.
The percentage of this type of poolversus the other is going to change?
Yes.
Because of climate accessibility.
Materials and materialsthat are available.
So you have a vinyl liner pool.
Which is basically, a vinylproduct that you dig a hole in
(02:15):
and you set it down in the ground.
And that is not done very much inthis part of the country at all.
Trey (02:20):
No.
It's budget friendly,but lower durability.
Yeah.
Mike (02:24):
So in some parts of the country it is readily available.
When I first got in the pool industry,we used to see vinyl liner done a
lot in the rural areas because theydidn't have the capability to get,
gunite rigs out there and plastercompanies and those type of things.
you know, You get 120 miles froma, a metropolitan area and nobody
(02:44):
would go farther than that.
Yeah.
So, But today there's a large geographicarea that's covered with that equipment.
So vinyl's not as popular here in Texas.
So.
Fiberglass Yeah.
Is another one.
Which you have a particular shape poolthat's dropped into place and we have
someone that's gonna come and speakto us about fiberglass here soon.
We'll talk about thatin more detail later on.
(03:06):
So what we're gonna talkabout is a concrete shell.
Mm-hmm.
Which is.
Done of several differentproducts and we're not gonna
get into the products on that.
But there can be a dry mix and a wetmix, and there's pros and cons of that.
But we're not going downthat rabbit hole today.
No.
Okay.
So the first thing that most peoplewant to talk about when they talk
(03:26):
about their pool is, what do you think?
Trey (03:30):
How are you gonna enjoy the pool?
Mike (03:31):
Okay, so how are you gonna enjoy it?
the function of the spacethat you're going to have.
Which I think ties into a lot withhow deep your pool's going to be.
Trey (03:41):
Yeah, for sure.
Mike (03:42):
What do you think people will enjoy the most?
Trey (03:44):
The most?
It varies.
I mean, When we have our first meetingwith people, sometimes they think they're
just lock and step with each otherand they could have opposite opinions.
I would say there's probably more recpools out there than divers these days.
But we see 'em all and, and
Mike (03:58):
again.
Geographic areas will dictate this,which is gonna be more popular.
Mm-hmm.
But here in Dallas-Fort Worth I assessa lot of this goes back to the city
of Dallas had a code in place fora long time and they took it off.
Now, actually, they justput it back into place.
Mm. And that code stated you couldhave a pool from three and a half
(04:21):
feet to five and a half feet.
Yeah.
Or you had to go from threeand a half to eight and deeper.
Okay.
Or five and a half andshower, what about 3, 5, 3?
That's what, that works.
But you can't build a three foot to sevenfoot depth pool in the city of Dallas.
Really?
(04:41):
They won't allow it.
So what they're saying is yourpools fall into two categories.
You're either gonna dive into it Yeah.
Or you're gonna play in it.
And we're not gonna have youdo anything in the middle.
'cause you might get confused and do thewrong thing and end up in a bad situation.
Trey (04:57):
I mean, That's logical.
Mike (04:58):
Okay, so that was on the books for decades?
Yeah.
Okay.
So what happened is when I relocatedback to Texas, I was amazed at how
many recreational pools were done here.
Okay.
Because when I was in California,the most popular pool in Sacramento,
when I was doing 'em, now this was.
Long time ago Yes.
Was a three and a half to six and a half.
Yeah.
Okay.
(05:19):
But I come to Texas and they were like,no, three and a half, five, four is by far
the most popular pool in the Metroplex.
Yeah.
And so that's what gets built a lot here.
There are certain people that fallinto the diving category that want a
diving board or a platform or a rock,and they're gonna dive off of that.
And so they want eight.
(05:39):
And sometimes deeper.
We just finished one that was 12.
Trey (05:42):
Yeah.
Typically it's when they havefamilies and they want the
kids to jump in a certain spot.
Okay.
That's made for it.
So I'm gonna give you my speech for that
Mike (05:50):
right now.
Trey (05:51):
Oh, I already know
Mike (05:52):
it.
So you
Trey (05:52):
wanna give the speech don't build or design a pool for
something that's gonna change
Mike (05:57):
later
Trey (05:58):
on.
Okay.
So which kids
Mike (06:00):
grow up?
Kids grow up and theyleave and they leave.
Yes.
Okay.
And If you're gonna be in a housethree years designed for now.
Yeah.
Because that's what'sgonna work best for you,
Trey (06:10):
and it's people are gonna be in the same situation you were,
and they're gonna buy that house.
Mike (06:14):
Okay?
And so there's some people thatrelocate every three or four years,
and so that's all they're gonna be inthe house and they're gonna move on.
So, you know, If you've got kids that,and what I find is there's an age group.
this is how I describe it,basically elementary school.
Trey (06:29):
Yeah.
Mike (06:30):
In elementary school, kids will line up like lemmings and dive off a cliff.
Yep.
And that's what they'llentertain themselves all day
long going off a diving board.
Yep.
Okay.
It's fun.
And so if you've got kidsthat are in that age group.
You're gonna be there three years,then by all means, build a diving pool.
You all have a blast.
Mm-hmm.
Okay.
And what I tell all the otherpeople is go find the person that's
(06:53):
already built a diving pool andhang out there for those six years.
Trey (06:57):
Yeah.
Mike (06:58):
Because before that, you're not gonna want it.
And after that, you're not gonna want it.
Yeah.
And there's a lot more life thansix years in elementary school.
Yeah.
especially at my point, you knowthat was about a 10th of my life.
you know, what I tell people is, go.
Build a recreational pool becausewhat's gonna happen with a diving pool
is half the pool's over your head.
So what are you considering?
(07:18):
A
Trey (07:18):
diving pool?
Eight foot deep.
Mike (07:19):
The industry says a diving pool has to be at least eight feet deep.
Okay?
Now when I build one, I'mtypically building it.
Eight foot six.
I like a little extra insurance.
Yes.
I want it a little bit biggerand deeper and wider than
what the safety envelope says.
So when you have a diving pool,there is a safety envelope that you
should be building this pool to.
Trey (07:41):
Oh, you're saying you can't be, what, eight foot and then
just go straight up to three?
Uh,
Mike (07:44):
No.
Okay.
So there is a depth and there'sa slope coming out of the depth.
Yep.
so there's a certain length, there'swhat's called the glide path.
I'm gonna dive off.
I'm gonna glide the lengthof the pool and I don't wanna
smack my face against the wall.
Before I finish gliding.
Trey (08:00):
Just because it's eight foot deep doesn't mean that it's safe to dive.
Mike (08:04):
No.
So there were pools that were donea couple decades ago when I was
early in the industry, and it wascommon to build a 10 foot deep pool.
Okay.
Okay.
And you would have it 10 foot deep andthen you would have what I call the abyss.
Yeah.
The belly of the pool went straight up.
The belly of the pool went straight up.
so to a flat area.
(08:25):
And so you're at the top andyou got too close to the edge.
It was you slid off down into the abyss.
Yeah.
Of the deep end of the pool.
Trey (08:32):
Those always scared me as a kid.
I remember I would go to birthday partiesand then I'd be just walking around
and then boom, boom, I'm underwater
Mike (08:38):
going underwater.
And I. Slid down the, theski slope in the water.
And so what the industry realized wasnobody ever got hurt hitting the bottom.
It was the belly, it was the slope Yeah.
That people got hurt on becausepeople would run and dive off
the diving board and be like,look how far I can jump out here.
And they would splat their face ontothe slope of the pool and, yeah.
(09:00):
That was okay if they justsplattered their face.
But if they hit it hard enough, youwere going to do yourself bodily injury.
Mm-hmm.
And the first thing thathit that was your head.
Yeah.
That's not a good thing.
No.
So not a good look to wear.
what happened is the industry said,listen, we can come up with the four.
To the eight foot, but this slopehas to be much more flat and gradual.
(09:23):
Yes.
So it's a three to one slopecoming out of the bottom of the
pool going up to the shallow part.
And that glide path has to be 32feet long with a certain length
of board or a rock or a platform.
And here's where a lot of people.
Get squirrely.
They say this isn't a diving rock.
(09:44):
This is a jumping rock.
You're gonna jump off of this insteadof dive headfirst into this pool.
Yeah.
And so that for this pool canbe six and a half feet deep.
Instead of eight foot deep, and thisis not a correct statement, Uhuh, okay?
So am not saying that you can have ajumping rock any pool that you're jumping
(10:05):
off the side of the pool and any form orfashion and you're diving into, off of a
platform or a rock or or a diving board.
Yeah.
Okay.
So whatever you're diving off of,you're going to have eight feet deep.
Trey (10:18):
Well, Just imagine you have a child and he's, jumping in there.
He's used to his pool and he doesa cannonball well, buddy doesn't
understand and there's a rock and he'sa diver and he dives into the pool.
It better be built for him to beable to dive with that platform.
Correct.
And also, when you have that platform,I'm assuming the height of that platform,
you need to add to the depth becauseit's not like you're jumping off of the
(10:40):
the decking that's level with the pool.
Mike (10:42):
Correct.
If I've got a diving board, divingboards are usually somewhere
between 12 and 18 inches high.
Yeah.
And if I'm jumping off the edge of a.The concrete six and a half feet is
a nice depth to dive into, but if I'melevating what I'm jumping off of, I need
to add that to the six and a half feet.
So if I got a grotto that I'm drivingoff of and it's three feet tall.
(11:02):
Hmm.
Okay.
Because a lot of people are like,Hey, I wanna put a grotto down here.
I wanna dive off of this.
You're adding three feet to six anda half feet, so that pool should
be nine and a half feet deep.
Yeah.
Your glide path is longer.
'cause once you go deeper, you gottahave longer length to come out of it.
'cause it's a one to threeratio coming out of it.
So you're gonna have evenless shallow pool in that
(11:23):
pool from a length standpoint.
So the deeper you go, the less shallowarea you have in a swimming pool.
Trey (11:28):
It's also something good to think about when you do add a grotto and
it's not in a diving pool in general.
Because you need to know, Hey, you can'tjump off of this and do a cannonball.
Or you can and you can accountfor that because I've been on
grottos and jumped off and hit mytail pretty hard on some pools.
Yeah.
Mike (11:44):
So that's why I recommend to people to plant shrub roses all
around their grottos and encouragetheir kids not to climb, get on,
on top of it and dive off of it.
'cause it's not designed for that.
No.
First thing that's criticalis to establish the depth.
And so what a lot of people, afterthey stop thinking about it and
they realize half the pool is overthe head, a common trend today is
(12:06):
I wanna build them so they come.
Yes, I want them to come to my house.
I want the kids to invitetheir friends to my house.
I want my grandchildrento come to my house.
And so I want people to come to my house.
And so coming to my house means I wantto design it that has the most appeal.
Trey (12:24):
So when your kid is nine years old.
They'll enjoy it.
And then also when they're 17 inhigh school, because those vary
completely, 17 year olds aren't probablygonna be diving into a pool lining
up off of diving board typically.
So a
Mike (12:36):
9-year-old would probably like the diving board?
Yes.
Yes.
Okay.
So I'm gonna say the 6-year-old wouldprobably like a recreational pool.
Yeah.
And the 12-year-old wouldlike a recreational pool.
The ones in between wanna dive now,quite honestly I'm in the opinion
if you want them to come to yourhouse, you want them to come to your
house more when they're teenagers.
Trey (12:56):
Yeah.
Mike (12:56):
Then when they're in elementary school, as teenagers, therefore you want
to build a recreational pool, and I wouldrecommend a large recreational pool.
So they could have lots of fun.
Yeah.
They could play basketball and volleyballand it's not just three on three.
They could play six on six or eighton eight, and they've got plenty
of space to move around and play.
(13:17):
And if you do that, then they will come.
And I can attest to thatbecause we built that pool.
Yep.
And that pool we've talked about inother episodes got a lot of activity.
And that's generally gonna be the case.
And then as adults, whether youngadults or old adults, most adults like
recreational depth swimming pools tothe point, we're doing a lot of pools
(13:39):
today that people don't swim in at all.
Trey (13:42):
No.
They should look at 'em.
Mike (13:43):
Or they hang out at them?
Trey (13:45):
Oh yeah.
Mike (13:45):
As in just sit and, okay, so not look, not swimming.
Trey (13:48):
Like athletic, like laps.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Mike (13:51):
Or even swimming from an activity standpoint around they
just want to sit there and cooloff and chill and hang out and.
They'd rather die thanbreak a sweat in the pool.
This is a place of peace andtranquility that we're gonna
have in the outdoor space.
And by all means I need twotanning ledges instead of one.
Oh, so we haven't got tanning ledges, but
Trey (14:12):
anyway.
No, but like a 3 5 3 might workfor a lot of people, but if it's
a taller individual, taller familythat you might consider making
the depths a little different.
Mike (14:20):
So we did a, project up on a ranch last year.
Mm-hmm.
And it was a four or five.
Four, five and a half, four.
Yeah.
Because they were allsignificantly over six foot tall.
Even the ladies.
So yeah.
So the first thing that mostpeople are gonna look at is how
deep this pool is going to be, orhow shallow the pool is gonna be.
(14:41):
Yeah.
Now, Dallas.
Dictated that they won't allow a hybrid.
But there are a lot of peoplethat do like hybrids Yes.
that they're like I'm not gonna put aboard on it, and we just wanna jump off
the deck, or we wanna do a cannonball.
And so six and a halffeet's a nice depth to do.
So three and a half to six and a half.
So very common situation in some parts ofthe country but probably the most popular
(15:03):
thing in a pool is what I call a ledge.
Yes.
Okay.
Now a lot of people callthem tanning ledges.
Baja Shelf.
Okay.
Chaus Shelf.
Yeah.
And we've talked aboutthat on past episodes.
We won't go down that rabbit hole.
The ledge is different anddifferent parts of the country.
It is.
in the Texas market, most people'stanning ledges as they describe
(15:27):
them, are six inches deep Yeah.
Of water.
And the reason I call them a ledgeinstead of a tanning ledge is 'cause most
people today don't want to tan there.
No.
Although I did there is, but I had aclient today that was all about the
sun and the most about sun in the yardand the ledge had to be there and the
lounge chairs had to be behind it.
And so they wanted tomaximize their sun exposure.
Trey (15:50):
But we get the opposite as well, where they want as much like
coverage with umbrellas or whateverit is you're trying to build up shade.
Mike (15:56):
Oh, it was funny 'cause the sun lovers today were like.
Could we put an umbrella sleeve in herejust in case, because it's gonna get warm.
It's gonna get warm there, or Texas.
And what they're gonna realize is over aperiod of time, there's gonna be people
that wanna sit there in the shade.
And actually what they did alsowas they added a second ledge.
Okay.
Which is not an uncommon situationwith a certain style of pool, which
(16:18):
we'll get into in just a minute.
But we've got the ledge, and here inTexas it's typically six inches deep.
Now, ledge, lounger madea whole furniture line.
Designed around the six inch deep.
Ledge.
So they've got their signature andthey've got their autograph series.
Those are very popularchairs, but well, they also
Trey (16:37):
have variants where they're deeper and they can account to the
other different cultural depths,
Mike (16:41):
right?
So in California, the Baja Shelf is more.
Popular mm-hmm.
in the tanning ledge.
And there I've heard various depthsfrom 12 inches all the way to 18
inches from a depth standpoint.
Sounds great to me.
Okay.
You can sit a little bit deeperin the water you're sitting there.
And your furniture canbe adjusted accordingly.
(17:04):
'Cause much lounger aswell as several other.
Manufacturers now have all differentdepths that they can go on to these
ledges, which prior to the furniturebeing invented, ledges, I talked to people
and most commonly I did a four by six.
Which was big enoughfor one chair to sit on.
Yeah.
That was a common scenario.
(17:24):
I, I. Had nobody that wants a fourby six ledge in the last five years.
Yeah.
Most ledges are at least six feet deep.
Some seven, some eight, some 10depending on how much walking space
you want around your furniture.
Yes.
And, it's not uncommon to have a 12 ora 15 or an 18 or a 20 foot long ledge.
Trey (17:47):
Yeah.
You already said it.
The ledge is one of the mostpopular spaces because grandma's
gonna sit there and watch the kids.
It's a great place forkids to learn how to swim.
You can dunk 'em in and they'reonly falling in a certain amount
versus a deep end of the pool.
Kids will sit there and talk totheir friends when they're tired.
Parents will sit, just, peoplewill put their feet into the
pool right there as well.
So yeah, it's one ofthe most popular spaces.
(18:08):
And being able to have realestate to walk around all the
furniture is a you, need it.
Mike (18:12):
It's been endorsed by our dogs.
Yeah, dogs love it as well.
They think it's the greatest thing inthe world, you're gonna have a shelf now.
Old school, what you used to see a lotof was what we called a beach entry.
Yes.
I don't see many beach entries today.
Trey (18:27):
I love 'em, but yeah they're sparse.
Mike (18:30):
So with the more modern style design, the ledge works a little bit
better from a function standpoint,although I have done several
modern projects with beach entries.
Now, what beach entry's gonnado is instead of stepping in.
To the water and immediately beingsix inches deep in a tanning ledge.
Or 10 to, 18 inchesdeep with a Baja shelf.
(18:52):
What happens is the deck isgonna slope down to the water.
and it's usually at about an8% slope, is a nice slope.
Now if you do 'em too steep, theylook like skateboard ramps and
you're gonna twist your ankletrying to go walk down this thing.
Yeah.
But it's a nice gradualtransition into the water.
So what happens is the first,about four or five feet of
it's dry, 'cause you've got.
(19:14):
Two inches of coping and three inches oftile to go down before you hit the water.
And then it continues down allthe way and it basically, most of
the time replaces the top step.
Yeah.
So what happens is I need 10feet to make that work from a
mathematical standpoint and a lot ofbackyards, the real estate limits.
What can be done.
And so to add an extra four feet to theshell of the pool, in a lot of cases,
(19:39):
there's not enough room to do that.
But the beach entry was a nicething and you saw it a lot more
with the organic style pools.
In, in transitioning in.
Now I've also had clients that are likeI don't want a beach entry for the first.
Step, I want what I call a ramp.
Yeah.
And I wanna be able to walk all theway down to the floor of the pool.
(20:00):
And not have a step at all.
It's great for healthissues and stuff like that.
several clients that have had need for it.
It was because they hadreally bad arthritis.
Mm-hmm.
And their issue wasn't so much thestepping down, but the stepping up
to transition back out of the pool.
That became a big issue.
I also had a pool that I did for aquadriplegic and so they actually rode
(20:23):
the ramp down with their wheelchairand did exercises in the pool.
And then rode the chair back up the ramp.
And so when you do a ramp all theway to the bottom of the pool, you
gotta realize you're gonna takesomewhere close to 30 to 35 feet Yeah.
Of space to do that.
So.
The couple of times that I'vedone it, I've had big, huge pool,
(20:45):
shower end, and basically the rampwrapped all the way around from one
shower into the pool to the otherend of the shower, into the pool.
And so you were able to transition downto the four of the pool, and usually
you're starting more towards the middleof the pool with this going down.
Sometimes it's the, I've doneit incorporated several times
with beach entries as well.
(21:07):
But it takes up asignificant amount of space.
But for someone that, health reasonsthey need it, then it's a great thing
to allow them to get down into thebottom of the pool and enjoy the space.
Trey (21:17):
Yeah, it's a great way to reduce the.
Probability of falling withboth of those situations.
BBQ Intro (21:23):
We are gonna take a break here for a second and get into outdoor living.
So with outdoor living, we liketo go to barbecue bits here.
We're gonna share some information oneverything that you may want to consider
in your outdoor living space as far asfeatures, especially for the kitchen.
Hope you enjoy this.
Mike (21:41):
We don't want a disaster when we're done.
Sure.
How do we go about doing that?
And I'm not talking about themeat, actually, I'm talking
about the cleaning aspect.
Sure.
That's, that's not my favorite.
So is there any tips for that?
Bobby (21:54):
The tips or beforehand, before you start the grill up, there's, you
know, a couple things you wanna look at.
Get it hot, you know, brush it downreally good and keep it well oiled.
That will really minimize.
The, uh, disaster or the cleanupthat you have afterwards.
But to prepare for that, uh, remember allyour drip trays down below, regardless
(22:15):
if they're multiple level drip trays ornot, they should be lined with a foil.
So if they're lined with a foil, maybea heavy gauge shiny side down, so any
of the marinades or fats that drip offof there won't congeal into the pan.
You can change it when it's dirtyenough for you, but it will.
It will eliminate a lot of the, thegrease fires that we have inside of this.
Mike (22:38):
Okay.
BBQ Ends (22:40):
So I hope you enjoyed the barbecue bits that we just featured today,
and we'll have more coming up next week.
If there's something in particular thatyou're interested for, let us know and
we will get back into the episode now.
Mike (22:52):
umbrellas are really popular in all those spaces.
To the point that, I don't ever notfigure an umbrella sleeve for a tanning
ledge or a beach entry or a ramp,any of those things that I'm gonna
have a, an umbrella on somewhere.
Yeah.
And we're gonna look and figure outwhere that's gonna be the best thing.
Now sometimes there's multiple.
(23:14):
Umbrellas.
You gotta look at, what's gonna workreally well for people in that space.
When you have a shallow poolor a deep pool, there's two
extremes in uses of those spaces.
Yes.
So the first thing that a lot ofpeople want is they wanna be active.
And so with activity, we gottaplay volleyball, we wanna play
(23:37):
basketball, we wanna play Marco Polo,maybe we're swimming for exercise.
We want a lot of spaceto move around and play.
There's some things that absolutely,definitely don't want when we do that.
Yeah.
Trey (23:50):
A lot of steps and benches bar stools, anything that could
just get in your way or causeissues and you accidentally hit it
because you're trying to dive for avolleyball or something like that.
Mike (24:00):
Yeah.
Spiking the volleyball and impalingyourself with a bar stools.
No fun.
Trey (24:04):
No, it doesn't sound like a great time.
Tables as well.
Same concept.
Built the table,
Mike (24:08):
the corner of a table when I'm jumping around.
Yeah.
Hard edges.
So, With those type ofthings, we usually minimize.
All that.
most people want still the ledge.
A lot of times the ledge isrecessed off to the side.
Of the pool and there might be,instead of a perfect rectangle,
it's more of an L shape.
So we can pull the ledge off to one side.
So we still have a lot of activityspace in the middle safely.
(24:31):
And then we typically want somesteps and benches, but not too many.
Trey (24:37):
Yeah, and you see like some of the pools that will get bigger
in size, they want to have both,and you'll have like certain areas.
Like a footprint for a rec pool, but thenyou have your stuff on the side, like the
bar stools and all that kind of stuff.
Mike (24:49):
Yeah.
that can't happen.
There's people that want both.
They wanna have activityand they wanna relax.
Yeah.
And so they want the hybrid, sothey're gonna pick it up certain
things and they're gonna leave.
Certain things like tables typicallyare the lowest in priority with
most of the people that I work with.
Yeah.
But, bar stools are alittle more popular now.
(25:10):
I saw something the other day thatour friend with the, elemental
acrylic has come out with aremovable acrylic bar stool.
Trey (25:20):
Oh, okay.
Mike (25:20):
That's cool.
Yeah.
So we'll have to have him sendus some information on that.
So is it
Trey (25:25):
the whole, is it the column or just the seat?
The seat is acrylic.
Mike (25:28):
Okay.
And I'm not sure about thepole itself, but it probably
Trey (25:32):
don't want to install those if you're having crazy kids playing
volleyball right next to it.
'cause you might not see it.
You might not see it.
But it's still amazing.
Look, probably
Mike (25:40):
You've gotta figure the right balance.
'cause some people, the otherside on the relaxing side,
they want lots of those things.
Yes.
They want bar stoolsand they want benches.
I'm doing a pool right now andthere's benches on every side.
They want to be able to sit in thewater and visit with their friends.
They just want to chill.
It is funny 'cause most people long timeago used to sit on rafts and I guess they
(26:04):
had a lot of ornery children, like myornery children that used to tip us over.
So maybe that's why you don't seemany rafts is more, there's the.
Ledge, lounger pillow.
Yep.
The Lay's pillow.
That's a pretty nice one.
Trey (26:17):
The hammock as well.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Mike (26:19):
So there's certain things that you can float around in
that's really enjoyable torelax in the space of the water.
Trey (26:26):
I think people just built in seating in general, because I mean, when you think
about a lot of the jobs that we do, likenot in the pool, like built-in seating.
Especially if they'rehaving a lot of people over.
It's a priority.
So if you think about applying thatsame concept to the pool and having
the ability to have a lot of peoplein the pool and not just swimming
around and floating around, it'ssome people think it is a necessity.
Mike (26:45):
Yeah.
One question I forgot to bring upis, what do you think is safer?
Is it a diving rock, a divingplatform, or a diving board?
Trey (26:55):
Diving board.
Mike (26:56):
Why do you think a diving board's safer?
Trey (26:58):
Because you're deeper into the area.
'cause you have to walk out on theboard, which is above the water.
It's also built to have a specific space.
If you have a, diving rock I'vejumped off a lot of diving rocks
or just jumping rocks in general.
And typically what's gonna happen is,oh, I don't wanna just jump off the rock.
I wanna jump off the, this piece of copingor this rock waterfall or this grotto.
(27:20):
And if you don't have anything, youdon't have a certain spot in general
that's obvious to a kid or whoevermight be that's not familiar with the
pool that, that could cause issues.
So diving board, and alsoI have the cheat sheet.
I've heard you say this a million times.
Yeah.
Oh.
Mike (27:33):
The diving board puts you in the right spot.
It does, yeah.
And when you have a diving safetyenvelope, it's based on the right spot.
there's width to it.
So, I mean, Most diving envelopesare at least 15 feet wide.
Now there's some that are 12,but that's a, most people don't
want to dive off of that thing.
That's like a jump stand, whichis a stiff, there's no flex to it.
(27:54):
So yeah, most are 15, someare even bigger than that.
So we've got one.
That we're doing a woodendiving board on right now.
And that one has to be 18 feet wide.
Yes.
Because it's a eight foot on board.
But it puts you over the waterand like you said it's just
a, it's a safer situation.
Trey (28:13):
I will say.
The only time I think adiving board is not safe.
So this might apply to you, itmight not, but I've had a situation
where I went to a friend's houseand we installed a diving board.
This is when I was youngerand it was not intentionally.
Built for diving, like it was a deep pool.
Put the envelope, like you weresaying earlier, that incline
of the belly, it was not.
(28:33):
And so I dove into the pool and Icaught myself with my hands, but
after that I, I didn't dive afterit 'cause it's just not safe.
So same thing, like if you replacethe diving board and some reason the
next homeowner gets a bigger one orsomething like that, you just gotta
make sure you have the right envelope.
Mike (28:48):
Good advice.
So we've figured out the ledge, we'vefigured out, are we gonna relax?
Are we gonna be active?
The function the function of it.
So a lot of people are like, is there acertain size that you should do or not do?
And the size to me is dictated by.
All the other stuff thathas to go in the space.
Trey (29:08):
The amount of times we've heard someone be like, I have a
20,000 gallon pool is that big.
I have a 40,000 gallon pool is that big.
And it's it doesn'tmatter about your gallons.
It all varies.
Mike (29:18):
Yeah.
So gallons has to do withthe depth of your pool.
Yeah.
And the volume.
And volume.
But what's funny to me is there,people have sold people pools and told
them they have a 40,000 gallon pool.
Trey (29:32):
Oh, and they don't account for like steps and benches or ledges, and it's
really not a water mass of 40,000 gallons.
And I've
Mike (29:38):
done calcs on 'em and I'm like, this is a 26,000 gallon pool.
It's not a 40,000 gallon pool.
Trey (29:43):
Yeah, your chemicals are gonna be really high.
Yeah.
Mike (29:46):
But.
How do you prove that?
Most people don't know how to prove it.
So what's a bunch ofmath it's simple math.
Yeah.
Here, I'll give you the trick right here.
So you can check the personwho gives you gallons.
So you're gonna take thesquare footage of the pool.
And you're take the average depth.
Yep.
Okay.
So the shallow end plus the deepend added together, divide by.
(30:06):
If it's shallow and deep dividedby two, if it's shallow, deep,
shallow, divided by three, anyway,you're gonna get the average depth.
Multiply that by the squarefootage and multiply it by 7.48.
Yeah, because there's 7.48gallons in a square foot.
If you do that, that's your gallons.
Trey (30:23):
Or if they're showing you a pool studio, you can check it on a pool studio.
It'll show you the gallons.
It's pretty accurate if they
Mike (30:29):
put the depths in correctly.
Yes, Yes.
Yeah.
In fact, that's how we measure ours,because it's very accurate, especially
when you have steps and benches and allthose things that come into play as well.
But, yes, gallons is not agood way to measure the size of
your pool, but in some yards.
There's a lot of stuff that they want,and most people are like won, won all fit.
(30:52):
And so what you have to look at is,can we put all the stuff that you need?
Space wise with the proper sizes,and then see what's left and
Trey (31:01):
treat the pool like a void,
Mike (31:03):
Yeah.
The pool goes in the void.
Mm-hmm.
And we fill the rest of the yardup as much water as possible.
And then the space islike, wow, this all works.
Yeah.
I've got this nice size pool.
A lot of times they're like,I had North earthly id.
You could fit something in thissize and the space, but you've
addressed all the issues here.
Trey (31:22):
And also it'll make you realize if you do want a bigger
pool, then you have leftover.
It's like you gotta take something off.
Mike (31:27):
Correct.
So now the other thing is some peopleare like I've got plenty of room.
Yeah, I've got 10 acres.
We can fit it all in here.
Sometimes what you lookat literally is the scale.
Of the property Yes.
Versus the scale of the pool.
Yeah.
And if you put a normal pool ina massive house with a massive
(31:49):
backyard, it's gonna look likeyou put a postage stamp out there.
Trey (31:53):
Yeah.
It'll look tiny.
Okay.
In comparison, it's just the contrast.
Mike (31:56):
It's the scale is out of proportion.
Yeah.
So, I've done pools that are massiveto fit the architectural style
and the property that they're on.
They didn't necessarily need a poolfrom a function standpoint that
big, but it looked proper giventhe overall setting that they had.
Trey (32:13):
It's funny too, when we walk the job like on a precon and they'll
be like, oh this looks still smallcompared to the home, and it's like.
This is massive.
Mike (32:21):
So one thing that's a good question.
So when you walk a pool after you'vepainted it on the ground, the most
common comment is this is too small.
And the reason why is you're dealing withtwo dimension instead of three dimension.
Yeah.
There's no depth to this hole.
Mm-hmm.
I don't know how many timeswe've painted on the ground.
They say it's too small, we digthe pool, and they're like, wow.
(32:43):
It's huge.
Yeah.
So my dentist.
28 years ago said when we paintedon the ground, he is like, it's
too small, make it 10 feet longer.
I'm like, dude, it's already 45 feet long.
Yeah, you're talkingabout a 55 foot long pool.
And he's like, no, Ineed it 10 feet longer.
It's like, okay.
we went and dug the pool.
He came home and he's like.
(33:03):
what in the world?
You put Lake Tahoe in my backyard.
This is huge.
I had no earthly idea.
This was a total mistake.
I can't believe we did it.
Blah, blah, blah.
He's like, if anybody comes and tellsyou this again, you tell 'em to call
me and I'll talk to him about this.
And.
Contrast.
I did have one client that just was like,this just seems like it's too small.
(33:24):
We made it bigger, and they werethought it was great because they
had more space and a bigger pool.
Those are the only two timesit's ever happened, so I'm sure
there'll be a third sometime soon.
Now I'm sure the second
Trey (33:35):
really believes in or really believes in Blue Mind Theory.
Yeah.
Mike (33:38):
There you go.
Trey (33:39):
Yeah.
So
Mike (33:39):
you never can't have enough water.
now certain.
Sizes are gonna be too small.
Like you can't make a divingpool less than 32 feet long.
So you're gonna have a,have a certain space.
There are some people thatdesire to swim for exercise.
Yeah.
And so what they're lookingat is I want my pool to be a
certain length in, in size.
(34:00):
And I. Have done severalOlympic length pools.
I've had some people thatare just like, I needed to be
longer than a couple of strokes.
And what I think is a determining factorof this that you have to understand
and think about is how you swim.
Yeah.
So if you swim and have swamcompetitively and do a flip turn.
(34:22):
You're gonna do a flip turnand then you flip turn.
If you're bouncing off the wallsdoing flip turns, you're not
getting any swimming in your pool's.
Way too small.
Trey (34:30):
Yeah.
And there's a sense of accomplishmentas well, traveling that distance
versus having something likea treadmill in the water.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Mike (34:37):
Therefore, you probably are gonna need a longer pool.
So people that do a lot of competitiveswimming a lot of them, 42, 45, 50,
they want at least a certain length.
Now, if you do an Olympic.
I believe it's 82.3 feet.
Is an Olympic size pool.
'cause that's a 25 meter pool.
(34:58):
But we used to do 25 yards, 75 feetwas what we did at one point in time.
But, really the only time that's importantto people is if you think your kid's
gonna be an Olympian and you're doingtime trials in your backyard pool.
Yeah.
Which most people aren't.
There are even people that train at a highlevel, when they go to do time trials,
(35:20):
they go to the large facility and do that.
But there are occasionally some peoplethat want something along those lines.
Now the one thing to consider is youmay wanna look at creating a current, I
forgot to write that one down fast line.
You may wanna look at a fast lane.
And or you may wanna lookat a river flow pump.
(35:41):
Yeah.
Because those will create current.
And so you may only do a 35 footlong pool and create current
and swim against the current.
Yeah.
So that's an alternative.
Trey (35:50):
Also, I've seen where people will, design the regular pool and
then they'll have this little columnthat stretches really far out to
give them that lap pool effect.
If you're not a professional swimmer,having just the hard walls right next
to you and swimming that lap pool, Ithink it's a little dangerous because.
Not everybody swims completely straight.
Mike (36:10):
Yeah.
So episode 39 was the river flow pump.
Okay.
So information on that.
Yeah.
So as a point of reference checkingout, so we've got a lot of features
that we could add to a pool whichwe're gonna reference a lot of
episodes that we've already done thathave covered those type of things.
But the size is something that.
You gotta see what fits in your yard.
(36:32):
I've got one right now that I'mprobably gonna be drawing up tomorrow.
It is probably not gonna be morethan 22 feet long ' cause that's
what's gonna fit in their backyard.
Yeah.
But.
They'll be thrilled.
We just won a design award for asmall pool in a backyard that it
was eight feet wide and it was about25 feet long and that's what fit.
Yeah.
And plus a ledge.
(36:54):
So one thing that a lot of peopledon't ever talk about is hydraulics.
Big deal.
When you talk about a swimming pool, huge.
And we need to have somebodycome on and speak specifically on
hydraulics and that's a kind of aboring topic to a lot of people.
But if you don't have properhydraulics in a swimming pool,
you're going to burn a lot of energy.
(37:15):
And be very inefficienton how the pool works.
Mm-hmm.
It's probably just not gonna be as clean.
But there's bigger pipe isalways better than smaller pipe.
But you gotta pay for biggerpipe when you do that.
Yeah.
It's
Trey (37:27):
more work when you're drinking through a small straw than a big straw.
Mike (37:30):
That's exactly right.
And when I got into the business, peoplewould be like well, I'm using the big one.
I'm using a two inch pipe.
A two inch pipe is not a big pipe.
Okay.
there's people that are doinghydraulics that have two and a half, and
sometimes three and sometimes four, andsometimes six inch pipelines in a pool.
And it all has to do with the flow ofwater that you're moving and to the
(37:54):
size of the pump that you're using.
Mm-hmm.
To make that water flow efficiently.
So that's something that'sreal important to look at.
But one thing, just as a slight noteis where is your pool equipment going?
Trey (38:05):
It should be in your yard, right?
Mike (38:07):
Yeah.
They frown on if you putit in somebody else's yard.
Yeah.
actually we talked about treesand we forgot to mention one thing
about pool equipment and trees.
What's that?
So a lot of times people putthe pool equipment right on the
side yard up against the fence.
Yeah.
If your neighbor has a monster treethat's right on the property line and
you put your pool equipment there.
(38:29):
You're probably gonnakill your neighbor's tree
'Trey: cause you're compressing it and pretty much suffocating it.
Or you're
cutting all the roots.
Yeah.
Because of your, your plumbing trench.
Trey (38:37):
So I think a great place to put the pad is level the pool.
And I prefer below the pool,unless you're scared of freeze
damage or something like that.
Mike (38:45):
So if you put it level or slightly below, that's what's
called a flooded s section.
Okay.
So what happens then is your wateris always constantly pushing on
your pump and so therefore yourpump is very easy to prime up.
Yep.
Okay.
And your pump's also gonna be
Trey (39:05):
quieter and you also won't have to.
Rely on a bunch of checkvalves to prime up the pump.
So therefore, if for instance, if youhave a bunch of check valves and you
get debris, like you have a bunch oftrees that could clog up the check
valves and then your pump doesn't havewater in it because it's running dry,
Mike (39:21):
right?
Trey (39:21):
Yeah I prefer that
Mike (39:22):
Although you could have check valves required if it's
significantly lower than your pool.
Oh
Trey (39:28):
no.
If it's any lower than thepool, you'll need check valves.
But they're pretty much So when youdo open the baskets, the water doesn't
just drain outta the pool completely.
And that's why I said freeze damage.
'cause if you have freeze damageon the equipment pad and a pipe
breaks it, could create draining.
Yeah.
Mike (39:45):
If you have your equipment significantly higher as Trey said,
you're gonna have to have check valvesand you're gonna most likely burn out
pumps with that situation over quicker.
Over a period of time.
Yeah.
At a faster rate.
And it will definitely make more noise.
If it's higher.
Which you can walk down the streetsometimes in hilly subdivisions, you
can tell, yep, that one's higher.
(40:05):
That one's higher because you can hearit from the street that pump whining
trying to, pull the water up to itself.
Where the equipment's at and hydraulicsare very important to consider
when you're looking at your pool.
But there's another thing that'sreally important that a lot of
people don't talk about is how you'regonna get water into this pool.
To fill it up.
Yep.
Yeah, to fill it up.
(40:26):
That's a big deal too.
A lot of people are like you just
Trey (40:29):
throw a hose in and you fill it up.
But some people don't like theespecially when they're going for a
modern design, there might be somewives out there that don't wanna see
this, you know, yellow or green hosejust laying on their deck all the time.
So they might prefer the autofill route.
Yeah.
Mike (40:43):
So are there manual fills?
Trey (40:45):
Yeah.
You can do a manual feel whereyou, yeah, you explain it
Mike (40:49):
a lot of times people will come off the hose bib and they'll split the
line, and so they'll have a valve that.
Still works as a hose bib, but thenthey'll also have a valve that runs pipe
underneath the ground into the pool.
And manually you turn it onand manually you turn it off.
That way you don't have to drag out ahose that way you don't drag out a hose.
It's a permanent hose underneath the deck.
(41:10):
Yes.
Okay.
So the challenge with that issomebody's gotta turn it on and
somebody's gotta turn it off.
Mm-hmm.
And if you travel a lot.
You're gone for weeks on into summervacation and that type of thing, then
that becomes a little bit of a challenge.
You've gotta have somebody to do that.
Yeah.
But they might have to feed thedog too, if you leave a dog at
the house or something like that.
Trey (41:30):
Well, Also, depending on who's building your pool and what equipment
they use, if they're using skimmersthat are suction based solely and not
like a Venturi system If your pooldrains down a little bit more and
you forget it could be a big deal.
Yes.
Mike (41:43):
one thing also is in some parts of the country, they'll set the
autofill off the sprinkler system.
So some people don't allow that.
Some cities, in Texas about, 10years ago that was made illegal.
Yeah.
Can't do that anymore.
But in other parts of the country,that still is legal situation and
that's a great solution to get yourwater into versus a manual situation.
(42:07):
You just programming your sprinklerclock that it's gonna come on every week,
a certain day for a certain amount oftime, it's gonna put water in the pool.
Now you may waste water, you mayput water in, and it just rained.
Sometimes people have sprinklerclocks that monitor the rain,
so that's a possibility as well.
Trey (42:23):
Well, They do timers the same way on top of a hose bib what you were talking
about earlier, which it's the same conceptto just not coming from the sprinklers.
Mike (42:30):
there's a built-in autofill.
Which can be done which we do all thetime when we do a vanishing edge pool.
Yes.
That's something elsethat can be considered.
One of the big deals here in Texasis when we tap into the water source,
we have to tap into the water meter.
In front of the house.
So the plumbing run on this sometimesis several thousands of dollars.
(42:52):
Yeah.
So an autofill sometimes can be, three,four or $5,000 and people are like,
nobody talked to me about this, soI don't know if I've got one or not.
I can guarantee you if they didn't talkto you about it, you don't have one.
No 'cause they don't want to addthe three to $4,000 to the cost of
the project and then maybe lose theproject because they added an autofill.
(43:14):
Yeah.
But it's something you should bethinking about and understanding
whether you have one or you don't.
Another thing about pools that's reallycritical to think about is some cities
have certain requirements along with thepool and having to do with the depth and
proximity to the house one-to-one ratio.
Yeah, we've talked about that before.
There's certain cities that requireyou to be certain distances off of.
(43:37):
Accessory structuresthat you may be building.
You may have to be certain distanceoff the glass of the house certain
windows that aren't tempered.
So there, there's all kindsof things that, and every city
has different rules on this.
So you need to be familiar withwhat's allowed in your city.
And is possible
Trey (43:54):
also, if you have a heater, there's limitations where you
can put the equipment pad.
'cause if it's close to a window
Mike (43:59):
Carbon monoxide is a off.
Gas of a heater, which is notrecommended for us to breathe.
Trey (44:05):
No.
And by a window, I mean a windowthat opens, there's obviously the
bathroom windows that are really highup and our, they don't open at all.
Mike (44:12):
But you don't want to be running that outside your kids' window
while they're sleeping at night.
Yeah.
there's a whole lot of other featuresthat could be incorporated into your pool
Trey (44:23):
we have so many episodes that go into deep, like with
a lot of these features.
Mike (44:27):
Do you want me to just rattle 'em off?
Yeah, just go,
Trey (44:29):
go through it.
Mike (44:30):
Okay.
So there's automatic infor cleaningsystems, which were in episode 44.
Mm-hmm.
We have water features whichyou may look at in episode nine.
We talk about spas in episode 14.
Flow rider, if you don't know whatthat is, that's the surfing thing
that you see on cruise ships.
You can incorporate that inyour residential swimming pool.
(44:51):
And we talk to a flow writer on episode 51
Trey (44:54):
or build a pool for the flow writer.
Yeah,
Mike (44:56):
There's certainly people that do that.
Yeah, no, exactly.
Sure.
You could talk about a coverthat automatically opens
and shuts covers the pool.
In episode 85, We talkedabout vanishing edges.
In episode 15.
We talked about a knifeedge or a gutter pool.
In episode 40 or 16 wetalked about drop beams.
(45:17):
This is where the poolbecomes a retaining wall.
If it goes down, we call it a drop beam.
It goes up, we call it a raise beam.
That's in episode 46and Hillside Solutions.
We talked about acrylic windowsin swimming pools in episode 57.
Mm-hmm.
We talked about slides.
Dolphin slide was in episode 63.
(45:37):
We talked to sprinterwork slides in episode 76.
Two totally different typesof slides, but all fun.
We talked about a movablefloor for safety in episode 35.
We talked about.
Pool finishes on several episodes,but specifically we talked about
glass pools and episode 36.
(45:57):
Yeah, so lots of details on your swimmingpool that can be done, and we've tried
to cover a lot of these things and we'vegot more things that are coming up.
One of the things we didn't talkabout today was lighting in the
pool, which we will be talking aboutin the next couple weeks as well.
Trey (46:14):
Yeah.
On that list.
Also with the automation for the.
The cleaning system.
We talk about cleaners andcleaning systems in general.
And then also the same thing with covers.
We talk about different types ofcovers, not just automatic covers.
So just to preface, if you're wondering
Mike (46:27):
true hopefully step five.
The pool or pools in your backyard ishelpful information to consider on what's
gonna be the best situation for you.
Yep.
And we've got some more details that arecoming here soon, and if there's something
else that we haven't talked about thatyou are interested in, just let us know.
Sounds good.
Trey (46:45):
I hope you all have a good day.
Mike (46:47):
Take care.
Outro (46:48):
This show is all about helping you become a better buyer, a better pool
owner, and hopefully you're gonna findsome insights into how to enjoy your pool
even more so how to help your friends,your family, anybody looking to buy a
pool in the future or that want to remodeltheir backyard, add an outdoor fireplace,
fire pit, add an outdoor kitchen area, addsome shade cells, or whatever else it is.
(47:12):
We wanna be that resource for you, andthat's the end goal here, and we promise.
That there's gonna bea ton of information.
We'll try to go through it, youknow, as relatively quickly, but
also slow so people can understand.
But the intent of the show, thereason Mike and I are doing this
is because we just got a lot inour heads and we wanna share it.
So we hope to see youhere every single week.
Thanks for listening.
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I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Ruthie's Table 4
For more than 30 years The River Cafe in London, has been the home-from-home of artists, architects, designers, actors, collectors, writers, activists, and politicians. Michael Caine, Glenn Close, JJ Abrams, Steve McQueen, Victoria and David Beckham, and Lily Allen, are just some of the people who love to call The River Cafe home. On River Cafe Table 4, Rogers sits down with her customers—who have become friends—to talk about food memories. Table 4 explores how food impacts every aspect of our lives. “Foods is politics, food is cultural, food is how you express love, food is about your heritage, it defines who you and who you want to be,” says Rogers. Each week, Rogers invites her guest to reminisce about family suppers and first dates, what they cook, how they eat when performing, the restaurants they choose, and what food they seek when they need comfort. And to punctuate each episode of Table 4, guests such as Ralph Fiennes, Emily Blunt, and Alfonso Cuarón, read their favourite recipe from one of the best-selling River Cafe cookbooks. Table 4 itself, is situated near The River Cafe’s open kitchen, close to the bright pink wood-fired oven and next to the glossy yellow pass, where Ruthie oversees the restaurant. You are invited to take a seat at this intimate table and join the conversation. For more information, recipes, and ingredients, go to https://shoptherivercafe.co.uk/ Web: https://rivercafe.co.uk/ Instagram: www.instagram.com/therivercafelondon/ Facebook: https://en-gb.facebook.com/therivercafelondon/ For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iheartradio app, apple podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.com
The Joe Rogan Experience
The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.