May 5, 2024 • 32 mins
Join Leesa Csolak, renowned CEO and founder of 'Making It Happen: A Career in the Performing Arts', as she hosts a special guest, Glenn Cook, in Part 2, an enlightening podcast episode focused on guiding young talents into the performing arts industry. This episode provides an in-depth exploration of Glenn's own experiences, nurturing his children, Ben and Emma Cook's artistic talent while ensuring their safety, innocence and education are uncompromised.
Drawing from his son's journey through Broadway's Billy Elliot and Newsies, Glenn offers a unique insight into the significance of professional schooling for touring performers, maintaining academic balance, and the vital role played by child guardians in this industry.
Further into the episode, Glenn talks about the complexities of maintaining relationships while touring, the unique benefits of being educators themselves, and his children's transition into adulthood in this industry. The discussions make an intriguing shift as he details his own journey as a writer, touching various topics around the performing arts, their challenges and rewards.
Equally beneficial to parents of budding stars, aspiring young performers or anyone simply drawn by the dazzling world of performing arts– this episode promises to offer invaluable insights. Don't forget to like, subscribe, and stay updated with more enriching narratives. For more information, check out lbctalent.com.
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Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
Much easier than if one was playing soccer and one was playing, doing gymnastics.
And it was just, you know, it's a cute little number, et cetera,
et cetera. And the audience erupted when he danced.
And just seeing that, you can see it at a young age. And I think parents recognize
it. Like when you were sitting there and you watched that happen.
I mean, it was just one of those things where we knew automatically that there
(00:22):
was something different about it.
Music.
Welcome to making it happen a career in the performing arts
where we discuss how to break into the performing arts industry
for yourself or your child teen or young adult guests include professionals
who are passionate and share my vision of helping talented individuals land
(00:43):
professional representation and have successful careers in the arts my name
is lisa solek and i I am the CEO and founder of Making It Happen,
a career in the performing arts,
having helped hundreds of clients break into the performing arts business on
stage, including Broadway, films,
television, commercial work, and more.
This podcast is supplemental to my groundbreaking online courses.
(01:06):
For more information, check out all the way you can benefit from my courses,
my how-to videos, my live webinars, my in-person seminars, and free guides.
Go to lbctalent.com. My guest today is Glenn Cook.
18 months on tour, 15 months on. Wow.
Okay, so he was with the show a long time. So I have to ask you,
(01:28):
because Billy Elliot was a very popular Broadway show, popular show on tour.
And I know that they had a lot of super fans, which a lot of these shows have.
My perception of all of that is that you have the protection around you and
those types of things happen in all kinds of industries, whether it's gymnastics,
(01:49):
whether it's the sports world.
You have to be protective of your child. You have to make sure that you have
everything in place and that the production company has everything in place to keep the kids safe.
So that's certainly something that seems to be bubbling up in the world of what
we did with our kids and what people are considering doing now, but with Billy Elliot, I.
(02:11):
Did you ever feel that there was any kind of an issue because of the super fans,
because they tend to be so much a part of wanting to get the kids autographs,
wanting to like, like talk a little bit about that experience with the,
you know, with the fans after the show signing autographs.
Like, how does that, how did that feel for you guys and how was that controlled?
(02:33):
Like, can you share any of that?
Well, yeah, sure. I mean, there, that question has like three or four different aspects to it.
Yes. But the first part of it is in writing a series of stage dad essays,
I try to break down what each role is in this complex ecosystem.
And one of them is the child guardian.
And I will tell you that, you know, the child guardians that worked with him
(02:55):
on stage on Broadway and on through the tour were some of the best people I've ever known in my life.
Incredibly protective of the kids. At times the kids chafe because the people are so protective.
At the same time, that's their job.
And that's what I tried to explain to Ben was, look, the reason why they're
(03:16):
telling you you can't go do this is because they're protecting you.
And the child guardians on Billy and even to a certain extent on Newsies later
were wonderful, wonderful human beings.
You know, Bobby Wilson is the dean of the Child Guardians in many respects,
and Vanessa Brown, who I interviewed.
They're fantastic people, I mean, that we still maintain contact with to this day.
(03:40):
And Todd Montgomery, I can give you a list of people from 12 years ago.
I haven't seen in a decade, but I can still remember their names, their faces, etc.
That's one aspect of it. So you need to know that when you're on stage,
at least, maybe not on a TV set.
I don't have that much experience with him being a minor on a TV set.
When you're on stage, you are very well protected. And they have to go with
(04:03):
you until you go on stage.
They have to be there once you come off stage.
Yeah, so they're even, yeah, we should tell everyone that they're even,
they're in the wings. They're bringing the child. Yeah.
From the area where they do hair, makeup, and where they're actually,
you know, beholding them to stage right or to stage left, like wherever it is
(04:24):
that they have to go on, they're with them right up to that moment,
you know, and then they're there to take them off and bring them back.
So they're not left alone just so that everyone knows that.
And John Mira, who was his first guardian on Ragtime, was very good at explaining
to us the role of the guardian, what the guardian did. And he was excellent
at explaining, this is what I do.
(04:47):
This is who I am. This is what I do.
And as a parent, I would always – don't be afraid to ask questions of the professionals.
You're not a professional. You can't necessarily go in there and say,
well, I think it should be done this way. But there's not any questions that's a dumb question.
You can ask them anything about the process, and you should.
(05:12):
If you need any clarity at all, you should.
With regard to the superfans, Billy's superfans, I made it a habit of I would
always go and I would drop him off when I was there with him.
I would drop him off, and I would urge anybody who's doing the drop-off and
(05:32):
the pickup to do this, is I would go and I would drop off, and then I would
linger for about 10 minutes.
Because within that first, you can spot people, and especially if your radar
is high, and then you go back to pick them up after the show and see if those same people are around.
And then if you, you know, and don't be afraid to say, hey, I hope you enjoy the show.
(05:57):
Have you seen it before? You know, questions like that and strike up a conversation.
And most of the most, I would say the vast majority of the Billy fans, the super vans.
Were people that were living an idealized life through that show and through its characters.
It wasn't, it was sort of, they were Trekkies and they didn't mean any harm.
(06:20):
They were just, they were living this life through it.
And got to know them and got to, and if at the time he would just sort of entered into social media.
So anytime anybody friended him, I immediately friended them.
Anybody followed him on Instagram, I followed them. Now this was when he was, you know, 12, 13, 14.
(07:08):
Mm-hmm. Billy tour was arrested for
solicitation of child pornography during that time
and he was somebody we had seen he
was didn't didn't make a whole lot
of sense you know he's one of those that could never really get to quote unquote
no and so we had alerted stage management about him and then during the tour
(07:31):
we we alerted stage management pre about him during the tour and And he started
showing up at various locations.
And then something occurred in which he solicited photographs of a child through
social media, and they immediately jumped on it.
And he was convicted and has served time.
I think the production companies and and like you're saying the stage managers
(07:54):
everybody involved They're all trying to keep the kids safe,
you know, they're doing everything in their power to pay close attention to
that I think you were smart doing what you did funny that you said that you
would like kind of you know linger and hang out like I did the same thing before
and after and made sure that you know you want your child to be safe when you're
dropping them off at the stage door and you know, they're taking them in for the show and and.
(08:16):
Yeah, it's just it's just interesting that it's in the news right now.
And I feel like the performing arts industry gets a little bit of a bad rap
because there's not this information out there for people to learn about and to understand.
And all they hear and see are these stories that, you know, are tragic in many
ways, you know, but it's the same, it's the same situation with a lot of other,
(08:38):
a lot of other activities that the kids get involved in.
We just have to, as parents, be very protective and make sure that,
you know, we pay very close attention to what's going on with our kids.
So, okay, let's fast forward because a lot of things have transpired since then.
Can you touch a little bit on the Newsy's experience, how old he was,
(08:58):
what that experience was like for you guys?
When was there a separation where he was on his own?
Did he do any kind of collegiate studies or work, like kind of jump into that
space between being an older teen and an adult and what went on?
Well, he moved from Billy Elliot to home because he didn't have a job.
(09:22):
We said, if you don't have a job, you can't live in New York.
And so he went back to MSA, went through that process.
And I had never seen that child work harder in his life. And the reason was
because he wanted to do Newsies.
And so toward the end of his sophomore year in high school, he auditioned and
auditioned and auditioned and got into the national tour.
(09:45):
And he was 16. He, along with two small boys, were the only ones underage.
And so he then went and did the Newsy's tour for 18 months.
And we were fortunate because his guardian, not his guardian,
but his tutor on Billy Elliot, the Billy Elliot tour, who's become a wonderful
family friend, Bernadette Jasinski,
(10:05):
agreed to go on tour as the guardian slash tutor for the Newsies.
Can you touch a little bit for people who don't know about the schooling,
the rules involved with that and and a little bit about on location education,
like whatever your experience was, just touch on it so that they understand
because you're saying the tutor and it was a perfect segue.
(10:26):
Well, the tutor, so in terms of education,
in rehearsals for a Broadway show or when you're in rehearsals for something,
you're provided with a tutor who's required to provide you with a minimum of
four hours a day or 15 hours a week of education, education training,
so that you can continue that.
Most public schools in the area will, they're okay with you doing it for a local
(10:52):
production. They may or may not be.
And that's something you have to be up front with your principals and your staff
about from the very beginning. We will have varying degrees of acceptance, receptiveness to it.
The first couple of shows Ben did, they were fine. And then as things got more
complex, they became less fine.
And so when he went out on tour with Billy Elliot, he had gone to PPAS,
(11:16):
Professional Performing Arts School in New York City, during ragtime in the Broadway run.
And then on tour, we had to come
up with some alternatives. One of those alternatives was to go online.
And so we use Laurel Springs. Yeah, the different distance learning programs
that they have. Which is a distance learning program.
(11:36):
And when you're on tour, the show is required by equity rules and by production
contracts to provide tutoring to students for up to 15 hours a week,
or it's 15 hours a week minimum.
They're required to have an
on-location person teaching, and I think it's a 1 to 10 or 11, 12 ratio.
(12:03):
I think you're about right, yeah. Yeah. And Billy, because it was such a big
show, had actually had two tutors, but Bernadette was one of them.
And we became very good friends very early on because we wanted to make sure
that our kid who didn't really care about academics was still caring enough
about academics to graduate.
So but but the tutor is there who can provide you with hands on instruction
(12:28):
and support and developing a good, solid working relationship with the tutor.
Much as you do with The Guardian, and anyone else that you encounter with the
production will really help you in terms of your child's reputation and in terms
of their thoughts about your child.
(12:50):
Because this is a very small business, and word of mouth can knock you out of
this business, especially when you're dealing with a kid.
If a kid's a terror, they're not going to hire you. And if the parent gets a
reputation as a terror, they're not going to hire the kid no matter how talented
the kid may be. This is very true.
(13:11):
Building that relationship with the tutor, building that relationship is very important.
And it's also important for the tutor to know, and fortunately,
many of them work with On Location Education, which is a company that is specifically
designed for this type of work.
And you can talk to people with them and they're very, very helpful and they're
(13:31):
very, very kind in terms of being able to work with.
But again, a lot of this for the parent.
Is establishing relationships and developing relationships, good adult relationships
with the adults that are in the room.
Yeah, I totally agree with you. It makes all the difference in the world.
It makes all the difference for how your child, their overall experience is
(13:52):
going to be as well. The lines of communication have to be there almost daily.
It was my experience. Yeah. Especially to keep them on track with school.
So if you're planning, whether you sign them out of school and then re-sign
them back in, or you're trying to keep them, you know, in school based on what
the school is willing to do.
And at least for us in our state of New Jersey, the principals of the houses
(14:16):
were the ones that were responsible for the decision-making.
And if there wasn't something written in from the board of education that said how to,
or explained how to deal with children who are involved in the performing arts
and have to leave, or for that matter, If they're an equestrian who has to leave
for a couple of months to go to Florida to compete,
(14:36):
whatever that happens to be, if there's nothing there, then it's the principal
who has to make a decision.
And sometimes they're making a decision based on not having anything written,
and then that sets a precedent for future children. So there are sometimes this
little bit of conflict that you have to understand.
And then that decision that you make, whether you're going to pull them out
(14:58):
and put them back in when they're done with the show or whether you're going
to try to keep everything moving forward, you have to be on top of the material as well,
which I think a lot of parents even who get involved with their kids don't realize
that you do have to help to feed the information that the child needs to be,
like whatever the subject matter is, like what they need to work on on that day.
(15:19):
Like you do have to provide that for the on location teacher or for the teacher.
Guardian slash tutor so that they know what it is that your child's doing.
They are not going to be the teacher like in your public school who comes in
with the work and then presents the information to all the children who are
learning that subject for that day. It's all very individualized.
(15:43):
Did you find that, that you were providing the information?
Actually, it became easier for us when he did go on tour because location had,
And they had a relationship with Laurel Springs, Laurel Springs.
The mechanics of that were easier.
Much easier. Yes. I totally agree.
I cannot recommend to anybody.
I think it's I think it is a mistake.
(16:05):
And it's funny because my wife and I both have worked in public education for years.
But I think it's a mistake to and it's a disservice to the kid.
It's a disservice to the school system. and it's close to everybody
to try to continue that relationship
with your school if your child's going out on tour yes i i totally agree with
you we used calvert at the time and you know there were specific differences
(16:30):
we had looked at laurel springs and we had looked at calvert and absolutely
it makes it so much easier if you just enlist the professionals who understand,
the space that your child is now in and how all that needs to work and transpire
and we looked Well, to Calvert and Laurel Springs,
too, what was for us was unique was that Laurel Springs was also helping MXA,
(16:52):
the dance studio that my kids were at, with the establishment of a private school.
And because they were doing that, we were able to funnel it through Metropolis.
Oh, that's exciting. Yeah.
And so it gave us a local contact in addition to the regular contact.
How nice is that? That was a godsend for us.
(17:12):
So he was on tour with Newsies. for 18 months.
And then did he do Newsies on Broadway, or you said it closed and then it went
on tour? The show closed and went on tour.
And then he did go back for the Newsies movie when they did the capture at the Pantages Theater.
That's what I'm thinking of then, because I knew, okay, all right, yeah.
(17:37):
It blended the Broadway and the touring casts, and they brought him back as
Reyes for the film. Okay.
And you want to talk about funny things. I mean, we bump into fanzies all over the place.
That's a different audience than the Billy Elliot audience.
But also because of the pandemic, that thing exploded during the pandemic on Disney+.
(17:59):
And in fact, last night I was at a grocery store and a ninth grade girl walked
up to me and asked me, are you Penny Cook's father?
Yeah. Okay, she must be a Muses fan.
And of course it was, but it followed us. And so, I mean, you get fan groups are all different.
(18:20):
And it was a great experience for him. And then during that period, he turned 18.
He was, for the most part, emancipated, even though he wasn't emancipated legally.
Legally, he was, you know, he was doing a lot more on his own at 17 as he turned
17 shortly after Macy's opened.
His 17th year, he was very independent.
(18:40):
We had a guardian and we had somebody who was checking in on him,
but he was very independent.
But of course, by this time, he'd been in the business for half his life. He knew how that worked.
It was, we were very fortunate that he was able to do that show,
still technically being a minor.
He moved back to New York because he got Tuck Everlasting.
Thing and then which opened and closed in a heartbeat that was his first adult
(19:04):
role in the ensemble for that yeah that was his transition then really that
the you know to being on his own and and being an adult in a show.
Yeah, interesting. And he became roommates with somebody who'd been on the Newsies
tour, Josh Grinch, who is a great kid.
And they became roommates. They ended up living together for six years in New
York. Ever since then, he's been in New York.
(19:26):
And so Tuck closed.
He did a couple of episodic TV episodes.
He debated whether or not to go to college and then decided against it because
his interest would have been musical theater or film or TV. be.
And it was like, look, I have so much experience, you know, I do that.
Yeah. Yeah. I totally agree with that. Yeah. I think it's, you know,
(19:49):
there there's, and we've had this conversation,
you and I before about the different ways that you can get into the industry,
whether you do the traditional route of high school audition for college,
go out and try to, you know, get into a good school for musical theater,
vocal performance, dance, whatever it happens to be and get into the industry that way.
But I think our kids, because they started so young, Kevin started at 10, Ben at 11.
(20:14):
I think, you know, they're so mature as well.
I think there's a whole different maturity level when they've been in the professional
space for that amount of time.
I think it's just a, and it's a good thing. It's not, it's not a bad thing.
It's not like they missed their childhood. They loved every minute of what they were doing.
And they They also had a lot of great friends that they've, you know,
(20:37):
that they've kept for life from all of these experiences.
I think the collegiate, to stop everything and go into a collegiate program.
Which I'm very in tune to that process, and I feel strongly that if you can
get into a collegiate program where the instructors have been in the industry
and have had the experience,
(20:58):
then that certainly is a phenomenal way to transition into a career.
But that's a tough ask.
Not all of the schools offer that, you know, across this country.
And so, you know, looking at that, too, you're stopping everything for four years.
And then you have to rekindle all those relationships and who else has come
(21:21):
through the, you know, the funnel of actor,
singer, dancers moving through whether it's the Broadway space,
the film and TV space, that now you have to kind of reenter into that space again.
So I, you know, I agree totally with what he did.
You know, Kevin went to Pace for a year and then, and honestly,
(21:42):
his first semester, they said to him, you need to just go to LA and pursue your
career, continue doing what you're doing.
And I think it was good for him. It was the right move for us and for him to
be at Pace for a year. Yeah.
You know, he left soon after that and went to L.A. to work. But we're getting down to the wire here.
Let's talk about can you know we're good. Can you can you touch on Emma's journey
(22:04):
just quickly just for the listeners?
I think because it kind of is a good segue from what I was just saying.
But, yeah, let's talk a little bit about Emma's experience.
Emma's experience is exactly what you described. It was the traditional experience
of go through high school, go to college.
And she auditioned and got into Point Cork University.
(22:26):
And, you know, it was she's truly worked her butt off.
We have the advantage of having boys who are in the industry.
And the boy to girl ratio is, you know, one to 50 probably.
That's a whole nother conversation. Exactly.
Completely a different conversation. But, you know, and so for her,
it was harder to break in. And so she went through Point Park,
(22:49):
and for her, it was a personal and professional journey.
She did double major. She was able to get out in three years with a double major,
sports arts and entertainment management.
So that's the other thing that I recommend is that if you're going to go into
a college and go into a four-year route and you want to look at this,
(23:10):
consider a minor or a second major in sports arts and entertainment management
so you can still maintain that aspect of it.
And she came, you know, got out right before the pandemic.
Then, of course, that happened. And then so she picked up odd jobs,
but she was determined to move to New York.
And she worked and worked and worked and worked more and more at her dance and
(23:33):
then also worked on herself and where she felt like she was in her life and who she was in her life.
And it was for her that that period from 2020 to 2022 was a period for her of
deep self-reflection who she was.
I think you could say that a lot of people could say that about that time frame.
(23:57):
You know, I really feel that everyone had those moments of thinking about the
past, the present and the future during that time frame for sure.
No question. And I think for her, it was a matter of, you know,
the existential question of, well, do I really want to do this? Do I really pursue this?
She doubled down and came out of that period.
(24:21):
Even more determined to do it. And so she's been performing in various things
in and around New York City.
She's worked her jobs at Trader Joe's and odd jobs here.
And then last year, booked the non-equity tour of Jesus Christ Superstar as
the lead dancer in that. And so she did that for six months.
It was amazing to watch her on stage.
(24:44):
I was very fortunate that I I got a chance to see her on stage the first time
that Ben got to see her on a professional stage.
It was in Texas, which is where I grew up on my birthday.
What makes it even more special? Right. Right.
And you know, her journey is like so many, so many young women in this industry
(25:06):
and in that you have to work so hard to do it.
And she's, she's an amazing human being.
And I could not be prouder of her. That's so cool.
I'm so happy for her that she got the show. Is she continuing to audition and
go that route? I love it. I love it. She's on Equity vs.
Equity, which is a totally different story. We can have a separate episode.
(25:28):
We need to do another couple of episodes and discuss all of that for sure. We have to do that.
Oh my gosh. So quickly give us, you know, where has Ben now?
What's happening? Are you involved? Do you stay out of things?
Like, does he confide in you? Like, what's the relationship now?
(25:49):
Yes, to answer it in a succinct manner. He moved from Newsies,
did West Side Story, the movie, and Mean Girls.
And that's where he met your son was in Mean Girls. And they did the West Side Story film together.
And then they did the West Side Story revival together as well.
And he was injured in that.
And at the time after that decided he was going to that was coincided with the
(26:11):
pandemic. And so he was fortunate to get some episodic television.
He's a couple of small roles in films.
And, you know, he's been able to pay the bills, which has been great.
Yeah. And then he was allowed to be part of the development of a new show that's
going to Broadway opens April 24th called which is great.
A show unlike anything you've ever seen before. It absolutely is.
(26:35):
I went and saw it closing night at the Armory in New York, and it is beyond
phenomenal and something very different.
I hope good things will come from that, and I'm sure that they will.
It opens for 16 weeks then. His trajectory, we still talk probably two,
(26:56):
three, four times a week.
And whenever there's professional advice or when he wants another ear that's
an adult ear that's invested in him, he asks for it.
His journey was not easy on his siblings.
What's been good over time is that as they've developed relationships as adults.
They've purged that and they are very close.
(27:19):
And as a parent, I couldn't ask for anything more. I totally agree.
And I think, you know, I've got two kids in the industry now and there was a
different, you know, a different focus for my son, Kurt.
He's presently in The Great Gatsby on Broadway with opening night coming soon
as well. Yeah, it's an interesting journey with siblings.
(27:40):
And I think it's something that you have to be a special kind of a parent to
be able to navigate that appropriately and make sure that things go as well
at home as they're going, you know, in the business with a child.
And you have to, you know, I think both you and your wife being educators,
as myself and my husband are, I think that helps a lot.
(28:02):
Yeah, because we're used to dealing with a lot of children, teenagers,
wherever you are in that space.
So I really think you guys did a phenomenal job with navigating all of this.
I think we can definitely get on another call and do another episode at some
point. I would love to because there's so many other areas.
(28:22):
But I'd love for you to touch on your writing and where people can find you
and can read your stories and connect with you and also where they can find Ben on socials and Emma.
Do you have that information you could share? Sure.
It's glenncook.substack.com and it's two N's on the Glenn.
(28:46):
Or you can also search for it under our reality show.
And I write in there about a thousand different topics, and I'm also a photographer.
But one of the tabs in particular that you might want to look at is staged at,
which is a series of columns and essays that I did over the course of and continue
to do when something major warrants, but really is looking at what it's like
(29:10):
to be a parent in this space of raising a kid.
And there are Q&As and interviews with various people throughout the section
in all the different roles.
And that's something that I think that, as I said earlier, there's a complex
ecosystem involved in that.
So search for our reality show or go to glenncook.substack.com and subscribe.
(29:37):
Right yes the stage dad stories and
they're amazing and i love your style of
writing and i think if you're a parent considering this or you're a parent that
is in it right now it's wonderful they're they're short they're not very long
they're they're fairly short and easy to read and they are going to make you
(29:59):
feel good and they're going to make you learn a lot and give
you a lot of information about what Glenn went through and all of these different experiences he had.
And I really suggest that you check him out. Thank you. Thank you very much.
And if you want to follow Ben on social media, it's on Instagram at Ben Tyler Cook.
(30:21):
And then Emma is emu, fun size, which is E-M-U-F-U-N-S-I-Z-E.
And the reason for that is because even though Emma's only 5'2",
they said, well, are you short? And she says, no, I'm fun sized.
So that's the reason for her handle. I love that. I love that.
(30:42):
All right. Great. Well, I hope to see you at the Illinois, Illinois's opening
or, you know, if you're going to be in town, are you going to be in town for
the Illinois's opening?
Yeah, I'm coming up on the 23rd and then I'll be leaving on the 24th shortly
after it because it's a matinee opening, which is unusual for Broadway.
(31:03):
And I'm going to be going home shortly after, but hope to see you and not hope
to reconnect on another conversation.
Yeah, I love it. Thank you so much, Glenn. Great. Thank you.
Thanks for watching the Making It Happen A Career in the Performing Arts podcast.
If you'd like to connect with Glenn or his son Ben or Emma, follow them on socials
(31:23):
or visit Glenn's page at glenncook.substack.com stage dad.
His series is designed to help parents understand what it takes to support a
child who wants to pursue performing as a career.
Need more information, visit lbctalent.com and follow me on socials at lisasolak__lbctalent.
(31:44):
By sharing our stories, we can help other talented individuals land the career of their dreams.
If you're enjoying this podcast, please like and subscribe below and hit the
bell for notifications.
Music.
Much easier than if one was playing soccer and one was playing, doing gymnastics.
And it was just, you know, it's a cute little number, et cetera,
et cetera. And the audience erupted when he danced.
And just seeing that, you can see it at a young age. And I think parents recognize
it. Like when you were sitting there and you watched that happen.
I mean, it was just one of those things where we knew automatically that there
(00:22):
was something different about it.
Music.
Welcome to making it happen a career in the performing arts
where we discuss how to break into the performing arts industry
for yourself or your child teen or young adult guests include professionals
who are passionate and share my vision of helping talented individuals land
(00:43):
professional representation and have successful careers in the arts my name
is lisa solek and i I am the CEO and founder of Making It Happen,
a career in the performing arts,
having helped hundreds of clients break into the performing arts business on
stage, including Broadway, films,
television, commercial work, and more.
This podcast is supplemental to my groundbreaking online courses.
(01:06):
For more information, check out all the way you can benefit from my courses,
my how-to videos, my live webinars, my in-person seminars, and free guides.
Go to lbctalent.com. My guest today is Glenn Cook.
18 months on tour, 15 months on. Wow.
Okay, so he was with the show a long time. So I have to ask you,
(01:28):
because Billy Elliot was a very popular Broadway show, popular show on tour.
And I know that they had a lot of super fans, which a lot of these shows have.
My perception of all of that is that you have the protection around you and
those types of things happen in all kinds of industries, whether it's gymnastics,
(01:49):
whether it's the sports world.
You have to be protective of your child. You have to make sure that you have
everything in place and that the production company has everything in place to keep the kids safe.
So that's certainly something that seems to be bubbling up in the world of what
we did with our kids and what people are considering doing now, but with Billy Elliot, I.
(02:11):
Did you ever feel that there was any kind of an issue because of the super fans,
because they tend to be so much a part of wanting to get the kids autographs,
wanting to like, like talk a little bit about that experience with the,
you know, with the fans after the show signing autographs.
Like, how does that, how did that feel for you guys and how was that controlled?
(02:33):
Like, can you share any of that?
Well, yeah, sure. I mean, there, that question has like three or four different aspects to it.
Yes. But the first part of it is in writing a series of stage dad essays,
I try to break down what each role is in this complex ecosystem.
And one of them is the child guardian.
And I will tell you that, you know, the child guardians that worked with him
(02:55):
on stage on Broadway and on through the tour were some of the best people I've ever known in my life.
Incredibly protective of the kids. At times the kids chafe because the people are so protective.
At the same time, that's their job.
And that's what I tried to explain to Ben was, look, the reason why they're
(03:16):
telling you you can't go do this is because they're protecting you.
And the child guardians on Billy and even to a certain extent on Newsies later
were wonderful, wonderful human beings.
You know, Bobby Wilson is the dean of the Child Guardians in many respects,
and Vanessa Brown, who I interviewed.
They're fantastic people, I mean, that we still maintain contact with to this day.
(03:40):
And Todd Montgomery, I can give you a list of people from 12 years ago.
I haven't seen in a decade, but I can still remember their names, their faces, etc.
That's one aspect of it. So you need to know that when you're on stage,
at least, maybe not on a TV set.
I don't have that much experience with him being a minor on a TV set.
When you're on stage, you are very well protected. And they have to go with
(04:03):
you until you go on stage.
They have to be there once you come off stage.
Yeah, so they're even, yeah, we should tell everyone that they're even,
they're in the wings. They're bringing the child. Yeah.
From the area where they do hair, makeup, and where they're actually,
you know, beholding them to stage right or to stage left, like wherever it is
(04:24):
that they have to go on, they're with them right up to that moment,
you know, and then they're there to take them off and bring them back.
So they're not left alone just so that everyone knows that.
And John Mira, who was his first guardian on Ragtime, was very good at explaining
to us the role of the guardian, what the guardian did. And he was excellent
at explaining, this is what I do.
(04:47):
This is who I am. This is what I do.
And as a parent, I would always – don't be afraid to ask questions of the professionals.
You're not a professional. You can't necessarily go in there and say,
well, I think it should be done this way. But there's not any questions that's a dumb question.
You can ask them anything about the process, and you should.
(05:12):
If you need any clarity at all, you should.
With regard to the superfans, Billy's superfans, I made it a habit of I would
always go and I would drop him off when I was there with him.
I would drop him off, and I would urge anybody who's doing the drop-off and
(05:32):
the pickup to do this, is I would go and I would drop off, and then I would
linger for about 10 minutes.
Because within that first, you can spot people, and especially if your radar
is high, and then you go back to pick them up after the show and see if those same people are around.
And then if you, you know, and don't be afraid to say, hey, I hope you enjoy the show.
(05:57):
Have you seen it before? You know, questions like that and strike up a conversation.
And most of the most, I would say the vast majority of the Billy fans, the super vans.
Were people that were living an idealized life through that show and through its characters.
It wasn't, it was sort of, they were Trekkies and they didn't mean any harm.
(06:20):
They were just, they were living this life through it.
And got to know them and got to, and if at the time he would just sort of entered into social media.
So anytime anybody friended him, I immediately friended them.
Anybody followed him on Instagram, I followed them. Now this was when he was, you know, 12, 13, 14.
(07:08):
Mm-hmm. Billy tour was arrested for
solicitation of child pornography during that time
and he was somebody we had seen he
was didn't didn't make a whole lot
of sense you know he's one of those that could never really get to quote unquote
no and so we had alerted stage management about him and then during the tour
(07:31):
we we alerted stage management pre about him during the tour and And he started
showing up at various locations.
And then something occurred in which he solicited photographs of a child through
social media, and they immediately jumped on it.
And he was convicted and has served time.
I think the production companies and and like you're saying the stage managers
(07:54):
everybody involved They're all trying to keep the kids safe,
you know, they're doing everything in their power to pay close attention to
that I think you were smart doing what you did funny that you said that you
would like kind of you know linger and hang out like I did the same thing before
and after and made sure that you know you want your child to be safe when you're
dropping them off at the stage door and you know, they're taking them in for the show and and.
(08:16):
Yeah, it's just it's just interesting that it's in the news right now.
And I feel like the performing arts industry gets a little bit of a bad rap
because there's not this information out there for people to learn about and to understand.
And all they hear and see are these stories that, you know, are tragic in many
ways, you know, but it's the same, it's the same situation with a lot of other,
(08:38):
a lot of other activities that the kids get involved in.
We just have to, as parents, be very protective and make sure that,
you know, we pay very close attention to what's going on with our kids.
So, okay, let's fast forward because a lot of things have transpired since then.
Can you touch a little bit on the Newsy's experience, how old he was,
(08:58):
what that experience was like for you guys?
When was there a separation where he was on his own?
Did he do any kind of collegiate studies or work, like kind of jump into that
space between being an older teen and an adult and what went on?
Well, he moved from Billy Elliot to home because he didn't have a job.
(09:22):
We said, if you don't have a job, you can't live in New York.
And so he went back to MSA, went through that process.
And I had never seen that child work harder in his life. And the reason was
because he wanted to do Newsies.
And so toward the end of his sophomore year in high school, he auditioned and
auditioned and auditioned and got into the national tour.
(09:45):
And he was 16. He, along with two small boys, were the only ones underage.
And so he then went and did the Newsy's tour for 18 months.
And we were fortunate because his guardian, not his guardian,
but his tutor on Billy Elliot, the Billy Elliot tour, who's become a wonderful
family friend, Bernadette Jasinski,
(10:05):
agreed to go on tour as the guardian slash tutor for the Newsies.
Can you touch a little bit for people who don't know about the schooling,
the rules involved with that and and a little bit about on location education,
like whatever your experience was, just touch on it so that they understand
because you're saying the tutor and it was a perfect segue.
(10:26):
Well, the tutor, so in terms of education,
in rehearsals for a Broadway show or when you're in rehearsals for something,
you're provided with a tutor who's required to provide you with a minimum of
four hours a day or 15 hours a week of education, education training,
so that you can continue that.
Most public schools in the area will, they're okay with you doing it for a local
(10:52):
production. They may or may not be.
And that's something you have to be up front with your principals and your staff
about from the very beginning. We will have varying degrees of acceptance, receptiveness to it.
The first couple of shows Ben did, they were fine. And then as things got more
complex, they became less fine.
And so when he went out on tour with Billy Elliot, he had gone to PPAS,
(11:16):
Professional Performing Arts School in New York City, during ragtime in the Broadway run.
And then on tour, we had to come
up with some alternatives. One of those alternatives was to go online.
And so we use Laurel Springs. Yeah, the different distance learning programs
that they have. Which is a distance learning program.
(11:36):
And when you're on tour, the show is required by equity rules and by production
contracts to provide tutoring to students for up to 15 hours a week,
or it's 15 hours a week minimum.
They're required to have an
on-location person teaching, and I think it's a 1 to 10 or 11, 12 ratio.
(12:03):
I think you're about right, yeah. Yeah. And Billy, because it was such a big
show, had actually had two tutors, but Bernadette was one of them.
And we became very good friends very early on because we wanted to make sure
that our kid who didn't really care about academics was still caring enough
about academics to graduate.
So but but the tutor is there who can provide you with hands on instruction
(12:28):
and support and developing a good, solid working relationship with the tutor.
Much as you do with The Guardian, and anyone else that you encounter with the
production will really help you in terms of your child's reputation and in terms
of their thoughts about your child.
(12:50):
Because this is a very small business, and word of mouth can knock you out of
this business, especially when you're dealing with a kid.
If a kid's a terror, they're not going to hire you. And if the parent gets a
reputation as a terror, they're not going to hire the kid no matter how talented
the kid may be. This is very true.
(13:11):
Building that relationship with the tutor, building that relationship is very important.
And it's also important for the tutor to know, and fortunately,
many of them work with On Location Education, which is a company that is specifically
designed for this type of work.
And you can talk to people with them and they're very, very helpful and they're
(13:31):
very, very kind in terms of being able to work with.
But again, a lot of this for the parent.
Is establishing relationships and developing relationships, good adult relationships
with the adults that are in the room.
Yeah, I totally agree with you. It makes all the difference in the world.
It makes all the difference for how your child, their overall experience is
(13:52):
going to be as well. The lines of communication have to be there almost daily.
It was my experience. Yeah. Especially to keep them on track with school.
So if you're planning, whether you sign them out of school and then re-sign
them back in, or you're trying to keep them, you know, in school based on what
the school is willing to do.
And at least for us in our state of New Jersey, the principals of the houses
(14:16):
were the ones that were responsible for the decision-making.
And if there wasn't something written in from the board of education that said how to,
or explained how to deal with children who are involved in the performing arts
and have to leave, or for that matter, If they're an equestrian who has to leave
for a couple of months to go to Florida to compete,
(14:36):
whatever that happens to be, if there's nothing there, then it's the principal
who has to make a decision.
And sometimes they're making a decision based on not having anything written,
and then that sets a precedent for future children. So there are sometimes this
little bit of conflict that you have to understand.
And then that decision that you make, whether you're going to pull them out
(14:58):
and put them back in when they're done with the show or whether you're going
to try to keep everything moving forward, you have to be on top of the material as well,
which I think a lot of parents even who get involved with their kids don't realize
that you do have to help to feed the information that the child needs to be,
like whatever the subject matter is, like what they need to work on on that day.
(15:19):
Like you do have to provide that for the on location teacher or for the teacher.
Guardian slash tutor so that they know what it is that your child's doing.
They are not going to be the teacher like in your public school who comes in
with the work and then presents the information to all the children who are
learning that subject for that day. It's all very individualized.
(15:43):
Did you find that, that you were providing the information?
Actually, it became easier for us when he did go on tour because location had,
And they had a relationship with Laurel Springs, Laurel Springs.
The mechanics of that were easier.
Much easier. Yes. I totally agree.
I cannot recommend to anybody.
I think it's I think it is a mistake.
(16:05):
And it's funny because my wife and I both have worked in public education for years.
But I think it's a mistake to and it's a disservice to the kid.
It's a disservice to the school system. and it's close to everybody
to try to continue that relationship
with your school if your child's going out on tour yes i i totally agree with
you we used calvert at the time and you know there were specific differences
(16:30):
we had looked at laurel springs and we had looked at calvert and absolutely
it makes it so much easier if you just enlist the professionals who understand,
the space that your child is now in and how all that needs to work and transpire
and we looked Well, to Calvert and Laurel Springs,
too, what was for us was unique was that Laurel Springs was also helping MXA,
(16:52):
the dance studio that my kids were at, with the establishment of a private school.
And because they were doing that, we were able to funnel it through Metropolis.
Oh, that's exciting. Yeah.
And so it gave us a local contact in addition to the regular contact.
How nice is that? That was a godsend for us.
(17:12):
So he was on tour with Newsies. for 18 months.
And then did he do Newsies on Broadway, or you said it closed and then it went
on tour? The show closed and went on tour.
And then he did go back for the Newsies movie when they did the capture at the Pantages Theater.
That's what I'm thinking of then, because I knew, okay, all right, yeah.
(17:37):
It blended the Broadway and the touring casts, and they brought him back as
Reyes for the film. Okay.
And you want to talk about funny things. I mean, we bump into fanzies all over the place.
That's a different audience than the Billy Elliot audience.
But also because of the pandemic, that thing exploded during the pandemic on Disney+.
(17:59):
And in fact, last night I was at a grocery store and a ninth grade girl walked
up to me and asked me, are you Penny Cook's father?
Yeah. Okay, she must be a Muses fan.
And of course it was, but it followed us. And so, I mean, you get fan groups are all different.
(18:20):
And it was a great experience for him. And then during that period, he turned 18.
He was, for the most part, emancipated, even though he wasn't emancipated legally.
Legally, he was, you know, he was doing a lot more on his own at 17 as he turned
17 shortly after Macy's opened.
His 17th year, he was very independent.
(18:40):
We had a guardian and we had somebody who was checking in on him,
but he was very independent.
But of course, by this time, he'd been in the business for half his life. He knew how that worked.
It was, we were very fortunate that he was able to do that show,
still technically being a minor.
He moved back to New York because he got Tuck Everlasting.
Thing and then which opened and closed in a heartbeat that was his first adult
(19:04):
role in the ensemble for that yeah that was his transition then really that
the you know to being on his own and and being an adult in a show.
Yeah, interesting. And he became roommates with somebody who'd been on the Newsies
tour, Josh Grinch, who is a great kid.
And they became roommates. They ended up living together for six years in New
York. Ever since then, he's been in New York.
(19:26):
And so Tuck closed.
He did a couple of episodic TV episodes.
He debated whether or not to go to college and then decided against it because
his interest would have been musical theater or film or TV. be.
And it was like, look, I have so much experience, you know, I do that.
Yeah. Yeah. I totally agree with that. Yeah. I think it's, you know,
(19:49):
there there's, and we've had this conversation,
you and I before about the different ways that you can get into the industry,
whether you do the traditional route of high school audition for college,
go out and try to, you know, get into a good school for musical theater,
vocal performance, dance, whatever it happens to be and get into the industry that way.
But I think our kids, because they started so young, Kevin started at 10, Ben at 11.
(20:14):
I think, you know, they're so mature as well.
I think there's a whole different maturity level when they've been in the professional
space for that amount of time.
I think it's just a, and it's a good thing. It's not, it's not a bad thing.
It's not like they missed their childhood. They loved every minute of what they were doing.
And they They also had a lot of great friends that they've, you know,
(20:37):
that they've kept for life from all of these experiences.
I think the collegiate, to stop everything and go into a collegiate program.
Which I'm very in tune to that process, and I feel strongly that if you can
get into a collegiate program where the instructors have been in the industry
and have had the experience,
(20:58):
then that certainly is a phenomenal way to transition into a career.
But that's a tough ask.
Not all of the schools offer that, you know, across this country.
And so, you know, looking at that, too, you're stopping everything for four years.
And then you have to rekindle all those relationships and who else has come
(21:21):
through the, you know, the funnel of actor,
singer, dancers moving through whether it's the Broadway space,
the film and TV space, that now you have to kind of reenter into that space again.
So I, you know, I agree totally with what he did.
You know, Kevin went to Pace for a year and then, and honestly,
(21:42):
his first semester, they said to him, you need to just go to LA and pursue your
career, continue doing what you're doing.
And I think it was good for him. It was the right move for us and for him to
be at Pace for a year. Yeah.
You know, he left soon after that and went to L.A. to work. But we're getting down to the wire here.
Let's talk about can you know we're good. Can you can you touch on Emma's journey
(22:04):
just quickly just for the listeners?
I think because it kind of is a good segue from what I was just saying.
But, yeah, let's talk a little bit about Emma's experience.
Emma's experience is exactly what you described. It was the traditional experience
of go through high school, go to college.
And she auditioned and got into Point Cork University.
(22:26):
And, you know, it was she's truly worked her butt off.
We have the advantage of having boys who are in the industry.
And the boy to girl ratio is, you know, one to 50 probably.
That's a whole nother conversation. Exactly.
Completely a different conversation. But, you know, and so for her,
it was harder to break in. And so she went through Point Park,
(22:49):
and for her, it was a personal and professional journey.
She did double major. She was able to get out in three years with a double major,
sports arts and entertainment management.
So that's the other thing that I recommend is that if you're going to go into
a college and go into a four-year route and you want to look at this,
(23:10):
consider a minor or a second major in sports arts and entertainment management
so you can still maintain that aspect of it.
And she came, you know, got out right before the pandemic.
Then, of course, that happened. And then so she picked up odd jobs,
but she was determined to move to New York.
And she worked and worked and worked and worked more and more at her dance and
(23:33):
then also worked on herself and where she felt like she was in her life and who she was in her life.
And it was for her that that period from 2020 to 2022 was a period for her of
deep self-reflection who she was.
I think you could say that a lot of people could say that about that time frame.
(23:57):
You know, I really feel that everyone had those moments of thinking about the
past, the present and the future during that time frame for sure.
No question. And I think for her, it was a matter of, you know,
the existential question of, well, do I really want to do this? Do I really pursue this?
She doubled down and came out of that period.
(24:21):
Even more determined to do it. And so she's been performing in various things
in and around New York City.
She's worked her jobs at Trader Joe's and odd jobs here.
And then last year, booked the non-equity tour of Jesus Christ Superstar as
the lead dancer in that. And so she did that for six months.
It was amazing to watch her on stage.
(24:44):
I was very fortunate that I I got a chance to see her on stage the first time
that Ben got to see her on a professional stage.
It was in Texas, which is where I grew up on my birthday.
What makes it even more special? Right. Right.
And you know, her journey is like so many, so many young women in this industry
(25:06):
and in that you have to work so hard to do it.
And she's, she's an amazing human being.
And I could not be prouder of her. That's so cool.
I'm so happy for her that she got the show. Is she continuing to audition and
go that route? I love it. I love it. She's on Equity vs.
Equity, which is a totally different story. We can have a separate episode.
(25:28):
We need to do another couple of episodes and discuss all of that for sure. We have to do that.
Oh my gosh. So quickly give us, you know, where has Ben now?
What's happening? Are you involved? Do you stay out of things?
Like, does he confide in you? Like, what's the relationship now?
(25:49):
Yes, to answer it in a succinct manner. He moved from Newsies,
did West Side Story, the movie, and Mean Girls.
And that's where he met your son was in Mean Girls. And they did the West Side Story film together.
And then they did the West Side Story revival together as well.
And he was injured in that.
And at the time after that decided he was going to that was coincided with the
(26:11):
pandemic. And so he was fortunate to get some episodic television.
He's a couple of small roles in films.
And, you know, he's been able to pay the bills, which has been great.
Yeah. And then he was allowed to be part of the development of a new show that's
going to Broadway opens April 24th called which is great.
A show unlike anything you've ever seen before. It absolutely is.
(26:35):
I went and saw it closing night at the Armory in New York, and it is beyond
phenomenal and something very different.
I hope good things will come from that, and I'm sure that they will.
It opens for 16 weeks then. His trajectory, we still talk probably two,
(26:56):
three, four times a week.
And whenever there's professional advice or when he wants another ear that's
an adult ear that's invested in him, he asks for it.
His journey was not easy on his siblings.
What's been good over time is that as they've developed relationships as adults.
They've purged that and they are very close.
(27:19):
And as a parent, I couldn't ask for anything more. I totally agree.
And I think, you know, I've got two kids in the industry now and there was a
different, you know, a different focus for my son, Kurt.
He's presently in The Great Gatsby on Broadway with opening night coming soon
as well. Yeah, it's an interesting journey with siblings.
(27:40):
And I think it's something that you have to be a special kind of a parent to
be able to navigate that appropriately and make sure that things go as well
at home as they're going, you know, in the business with a child.
And you have to, you know, I think both you and your wife being educators,
as myself and my husband are, I think that helps a lot.
(28:02):
Yeah, because we're used to dealing with a lot of children, teenagers,
wherever you are in that space.
So I really think you guys did a phenomenal job with navigating all of this.
I think we can definitely get on another call and do another episode at some
point. I would love to because there's so many other areas.
(28:22):
But I'd love for you to touch on your writing and where people can find you
and can read your stories and connect with you and also where they can find Ben on socials and Emma.
Do you have that information you could share? Sure.
It's glenncook.substack.com and it's two N's on the Glenn.
(28:46):
Or you can also search for it under our reality show.
And I write in there about a thousand different topics, and I'm also a photographer.
But one of the tabs in particular that you might want to look at is staged at,
which is a series of columns and essays that I did over the course of and continue
to do when something major warrants, but really is looking at what it's like
(29:10):
to be a parent in this space of raising a kid.
And there are Q&As and interviews with various people throughout the section
in all the different roles.
And that's something that I think that, as I said earlier, there's a complex
ecosystem involved in that.
So search for our reality show or go to glenncook.substack.com and subscribe.
(29:37):
Right yes the stage dad stories and
they're amazing and i love your style of
writing and i think if you're a parent considering this or you're a parent that
is in it right now it's wonderful they're they're short they're not very long
they're they're fairly short and easy to read and they are going to make you
(29:59):
feel good and they're going to make you learn a lot and give
you a lot of information about what Glenn went through and all of these different experiences he had.
And I really suggest that you check him out. Thank you. Thank you very much.
And if you want to follow Ben on social media, it's on Instagram at Ben Tyler Cook.
(30:21):
And then Emma is emu, fun size, which is E-M-U-F-U-N-S-I-Z-E.
And the reason for that is because even though Emma's only 5'2",
they said, well, are you short? And she says, no, I'm fun sized.
So that's the reason for her handle. I love that. I love that.
(30:42):
All right. Great. Well, I hope to see you at the Illinois, Illinois's opening
or, you know, if you're going to be in town, are you going to be in town for
the Illinois's opening?
Yeah, I'm coming up on the 23rd and then I'll be leaving on the 24th shortly
after it because it's a matinee opening, which is unusual for Broadway.
(31:03):
And I'm going to be going home shortly after, but hope to see you and not hope
to reconnect on another conversation.
Yeah, I love it. Thank you so much, Glenn. Great. Thank you.
Thanks for watching the Making It Happen A Career in the Performing Arts podcast.
If you'd like to connect with Glenn or his son Ben or Emma, follow them on socials
(31:23):
or visit Glenn's page at glenncook.substack.com stage dad.
His series is designed to help parents understand what it takes to support a
child who wants to pursue performing as a career.
Need more information, visit lbctalent.com and follow me on socials at lisasolak__lbctalent.
(31:44):
By sharing our stories, we can help other talented individuals land the career of their dreams.
If you're enjoying this podcast, please like and subscribe below and hit the
bell for notifications.
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