Bipeds on the Serengeti - the First Four Million Years

Dr. Josh Stout takes a look at the coevolution of our diet, our exercise and our consciousness.

Episode Transcript

(00:14):
So.
Josh,
come
on,
sit
down.
Friday,
September
15th,
2023.
What
are
we
doing? 16 00:00:23,602 --> 00:00:00,-01 Dr. Stout:
We
are
doing
a
podcast
called
Body
Mind
Evolution,
and
we're
going
to
be
looking
at
the
sort
of
coevolution

(00:35):
of
our
diet,
our
exercise
and
our
consciousness.
And
we're
going
to
start
off
with
the
beginning
of
our
evolution
as
we
split
off
from
chimpanzees.
So
my
name
is
Dr.
George
Stout.
I'm
a
teacher
of
human
evolution

(00:55):
and
Darwinian
medicine
and
human
physiology
at
Fairleigh
Dickinson
University.
And
I
really
think
that
we
haven't
really
looked
at
the
way
consciousness
has
evolved
along
with
the
evolution
of
the
body.
And
I
think
my
students
in
particular
have
seemed
very
interested
in
how
this
affects

(01:15):
our
diet
and
our
exercise
and
the
way
our
body
has
developed
over
the
last,
say,
6
million
years.
And
I
wanted
to
start
off
the
story
with
how
we
left
the
rainforest
and
went
on
to
the
the
Serengeti
and
what
that
did
to
our
physiology,

(01:35):
how
we
developed
as
we
became
bipeds.
So
there's
a
couple
of
things
that
humans
are
particularly
unique
in
our
in
our
in
our
in
our
physiology.
And
one
of
those
things
is
being
a
biped.
But
we
have
to
think
about
what
we
were
before
that.
So
we
were
eating
fruit.
We
were
maybe
traveling
for
about
a
mile
or
so
every
day

(01:56):
looking
for
fruit
as
chimpanzees
and
everything
was
wonderful
in
the
jungle.
And
then
about
6
million
years
ago,
the
there
was
a
tremendous
increase
in
volcanic
activity
and
the
African
continent
started
to
rip
apart,
causing
the
huge
up
thrust
of
mountains
which
caused
a
rain
shadow.
And
the

(02:17):
jungle
that
we
lived
in
started
to
turn
into
a
grassland.
An
so
suddenly
we
were
thrown
from
being
a
sort
of
happy
go
lucky
chimpanzees,
if
you
could
see
it
that
way,
into
a
group
of
primates
that
had
to
really
work
hard
to
get
our
food.
We
had
to
walk
long
distances
or

(02:37):
at
first
it
would
have
been
some
sort
of
maybe
all
fours
or
knuckle
walking. 354 00:02:42,562 --> 00:00:00,-01 Eric:
How
quickly
did
this
transition
take
place
or. 363 00:02:45,842 --> 00:00:00,-01 Dr. Stout:
Are
it
as
far
as
the
fossil
record
is
concerned,
basically
instantaneously?
So
first
there
were
there
were
chimpanzees
and
then
there
was
a
collection
of
things
that
could
basically
walk
on
two
legs
that
were
like
chimpanzees,

(02:58):
chimpanzee
body
walking
on
two
legs. 408 00:03:01,532 --> 00:00:00,-01 Eric:
This
couldn't
have
happened
in
thousands
of
years. 417 00:03:04,202 --> 00:00:00,-01 Dr. Stout:
Well,
it's
very
unclear
when
the
exact
moment
would
have
been
There
was
everything
from
from
could
have
started
12
million
years
ago.
The
consensus
is
around
6
million
years
ago.
And
we
start
seeing

(03:18):
the
first,
you
know,
really
convincing.
There
are
ancestors
in
our
line
around
4
million
years
ago.
So
there
is
a
2
million
year
wide
question
mark
where
a
bunch
of
different
strategies
are
being
tried.
So
some
animals,
some
some
early,
early,
early
hominins

(03:38):
are
going
to
be
walking
on
the
tops
of
their
feet.
Others
have
really
long
toes
so
they
can
climb
trees
well,
but
they
can't
really
run
because
they
can't
bend
their
toes.
There's
a
lot
of
different
things
that
are
that
are
that
are
happening. 544 00:03:50,942 --> 00:00:00,-01 Eric:
This
is
all
happening
in
reaction
to
the
changing
of
the
land. 557 00:03:53,402 --> 00:00:00,-01 Dr. Stout:
So
now
the
whole
point
is,
is
that
our
food
is
now
really
spread
out.
We
can't
just
go
from

(03:59):
fruit
tree
to
fruit.
Tree
climbing
is
still
important
because
as
apes
out
on
the
Serengeti,
we
are
slower
than
everything
else
out
there
and
everything
can
eat
us.
So
climbing
trees
is
really,
really
important.
We
spend
a
lot
of
time
probably
every
night
we're
sleeping
in
the
trees.
We
get
up
in
the
morning
and
then
we

(04:19):
have
to
walk
a
long
distance.
And
walking
became
sort
of
central
to
what
made
us
us
over
the
next
couple
of
million
years. 661 00:04:29,972 --> 00:00:00,-01 Eric:
Here
we
go. 665 00:04:30,662 --> 00:00:00,-01 Dr. Stout:
Okay,
So
we
we
we
evolved
to
this
sort
of
continuous
movement
every
day,

(04:39):
four
or
five
miles
a
day
of
walking,
as
opposed
to
less
than
a
mile
that
the
chimpanzees
would
have
been
doing.
And
then
when
we
got
to
our
food,
it
was
going
to
be
very
different.
Instead
of
just
reaching
up
and
plucking
a
fruit
or
climbing
a
tree
and
eating
the
fruit
in
the
tree.
Now,
we
had
to
dig
for
tubers.
And
so
we
actually
have
a
very
strong
upper
body
that
is
evolved
from

(04:59):
the
chimpanzee.
So
a
chimpanzee
can
swing
from
branches.
We
can't
swing
from
branches
anymore
because
we
don't
have
the
fingers
for
it.
Our
fingers
are
have
became
shorter.
We'll
talk
about
that
later.
These
ones
still
would
have
had
nice
long
fingers
so
they
could
climb
the
tree
very
well.
Some
of
them
had
long
toes
so
they
could
climb
trees,
but
that
slowed
down
their
walking.
But
the
strong
upper
body
with,

(05:20):
you
know.
Good,
good,
good
shoulder
bones
and
I
upper
back
strength
meant
that
we
could
dig
as
well.
And
so
even
though
chimpanzees
don't
do
a
lot
of
digging,
we
are
pre
adapted
for
that.
We
had
we
had
a
good
musculature
so
we
could
pull
up
plants,
We
could
eat
the
underground
stems,
we
could
eat
the
underground
tubers
and
roots,

(05:40):
and
we
started
to
change
the
physiology
of
our
skull
as
well.
So
our
jaws
became
much,
much
thicker
with
thicker
teeth,
thicker
tooth
enamel.
Strangely,
chimpanzee
teeth
are
very
sharp,
but
they
have
thin
tooth
enamel.
They're
not
nearly
as
strong
as
ours.
Ours
are
sort
of
flat.
And
we

(06:01):
have,
you
know,
molars
that
look
like
molars
as
opposed
to
sort
of
pointy
teeth
in
the
back
of
a
chimpanzee's
mouth.
And
so
we
became
specialists
at
grinding
our
food
and
walking
long
distances.
And
so
this
is
where
I
would
say
our
need
for
both
continuous
exercise
and
fibre
comes
in.
We
became

(06:22):
we
spent
most
of
our
days
either
chewing
fibre
or
walking,
and
our
jaws
became
tremendously
thick.
Some
of
these
groups
were
called
Nutcracker
Man.
They
had
huge
jaws
that
could
crack
through
almost
anything.
Possibly
some
of
it
might
have
been
used
for
scavenging.
Anything
that,
you
know,
would

(06:42):
have
provided
a
source
of
calories
would
have
been
useful.
So
there
might
have
been
some
dried
meats,
but
there's
not
a
lot
of
assumption
that
we
were
doing
any
large
amount
of
hunting
at
this
time.
We
would
have
been
much
more
scavenging,
digging
roots
and
getting
our
calories,
mostly
from
from
carbohydrates,
but
in
very
complex

(07:02):
forms.
So
in
root
form,
basically
no
fire,
no
cooking,
uncooked,
uncooked. 1121 00:07:10,472 --> 00:00:00,-01 Eric:
Just
mashed. 1124 00:07:11,552 --> 00:00:00,-01 Dr. Stout:
Chewed,
lots
of
chewing.
Yeah,
a
lot
of
chewing.
And
so
we
had
ridges
on
the
tops
of
our
skulls
where
our
jaw
muscles
connected.
We
had. 1152 00:07:22,332 --> 00:00:00,-01 Eric:
That's

(07:22):
what
that
was. 1157 00:07:23,102 --> 00:00:00,-01 Dr. Stout:
About.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And
we
had
teeth
there
about
two
or
three
times
the
size
of
ours
today.
But
the
interesting
thing
is,
you
know,
that
thick
tooth
enamel
we
actually
still
have
inherited.
So
we
very
much
have
kept
that
general
physiology
for
chewing
as
much
as
we

(07:42):
have
for
walking
long
distances.
Now,
obviously
humans
aren't
the
only
thing
that
can
chew,
but
we
are
definitely
the
only
thing
that
can
walk
like
bipeds
the
way
we
do.
And
so
that
has
shaped
a
lot
of
our
movement.
Um,
I
like
to
think
about
sort
of
the,
the,
the,
the
mental
map
of,
of,
of,
of
the
time
as
well

(08:03):
where
we
would
have
been
in
small
groups.
Chimpanzees
can
be
as
many
as
maybe
70
and
a
troop.
And
we
probably
would
have
been
moving
out
on
the
Serengeti
in
small
groups
protecting
a
large
territory
as
a
larger
group.
So
maybe
something
like
small
family

(08:23):
groups
working
together.
It's
obviously
speculation,
but
if
you're
imagining
an
ape
with
few
natural
defences,
there
must
have
been
some
way
to
band
together
and
work
with
each
other.
So
this
would
have
also
been
the
beginning
of
forming
not
exactly
a
society,
but
of
working
together
to
gain
calories.

(08:43):
As
our
brains
are
getting
bigger,
we
can't
survive
without
additional
calories.
The
the
diet
there
is
a
single
female
could
gather
for
herself
probably
would
have
not
been
sufficient
to
feed
her
herself
and
a
baby
as
well,

(09:03):
and
certainly
not
a
baby
and
a
toddler.
So
there
would
have
had
to
have
been
groups
working
together
to
do
some
limited
scavenging
and
digging
of
tubers
and
traveling
under
that
under
those
conditions,
usually
4
hours
a
day.
And
we
became

(09:24):
specialists
at
not
using
a
lot
of
calories,
which
is
part
of
the
problem
today.
So
we
get
so
fat
so
easily
because
we
have
such
highly
tuned
insulin
systems
that
turns
every
calorie
we
get,
if
we
possibly
can,
into
fat
stored
fat,
so
we
can
get
through
these
hard
times
where
we've
been
stuck
out
on
the
grasslands

(09:45):
and
so
we
became
specialists
at
not
speed
but
endurance.
And
so
we
can
walk
further
than
chimpanzee.
We
can't
outrun
one.
We
can
dig
for
longer
than
a
chimpanzee,
but
we'd
lose
in
an
arm
wrestling
contest.
So
we
lost
strength
and
gained
tremendous
amounts
of
endurance
and
a
whole
physiology.

(10:05):
That's
dedicated
to
storing
calories
and
to
holding
on
to
every
calorie
we
can
possibly
get.
And
a
physiology
that
essentially
forces
us
to
go
out
and
get
extra
just
so
we
can
make
it
through
the,
you
know,
the
hard
times
that
are
coming
on.
And
it's
actually
interesting
in

(10:25):
there
are
parts
of
Africa
where
they've
taken
a
series
of
of
of
sort
of
the
average
subsistence
farmers
weights
over
the
course
of
the
year.
And
you
can
see
during
the
rainy
season
when
crops
are
abundant,
they'll
gain
a
couple
of
kilos
and
then
lose
them
again
during
the
dry
season.
So
we
really
were
adapted
for
this
kind
of

(10:47):
eating
well,
everything
you
possibly
can
when
you
can,
and
then
just
suffering
and
looking
for
more
food
while
you
while
you
can't
find
it.
And
so
we
would
just
walk
and
walk
and
walk
till
we
found
food,
dig
as
much
food
as
we
could,
and
then
just
eat
and
eat
meat
and
eat
until
there
was
no
food
left
and
then
walk
to
the
next
place.
And
so
this
is
in
many
ways

(11:07):
sort
of
governed
our
attitude.
We
like
to
eat
with
other
people.
It
makes
us
feel
safer
because
we're
in
a
group,
are
much
less
likely
to
have
a,
you
know,
saber
tooth
tiger
come
up
behind
you
and
eat
you
and. 1792 00:11:17,762 --> 00:00:00,-01 Eric:
To
finish
every
single
thing. 1798 00:11:18,812 --> 00:00:00,-01 Dr. Stout:
And
we're
inclined
to
finish
every
single
thing.
There's
actually
absolutely
a
social
component
of
it. 1815 00:11:24,212 --> 00:00:00,-01 Eric:
And
there's
all
sorts
of
contemporary

(11:27):
psychology. 1823 00:11:28,532 --> 00:00:00,-01 Dr. Stout:
Yeah,
yeah,
yeah,
yeah,
yeah. 1829 00:11:29,822 --> 00:00:00,-01 Eric:
That,
that
that
gets
you
to
not
do
that. 1839 00:11:32,342 --> 00:00:00,-01 Dr. Stout:
Yes.
Well,
it's,
you
know,
we
would
like
to
be
mindful
of
what
we're
eating,
but
if
you
think
about
how
we
would
first
approach
food,
it
would
be
just
eat
it.
If
you
find
it,
eat
it,
It
doesn't
matter
what
it
is.
Eat
it
now
quickly
and
move
on,
because
there
might
be
something
else

(11:47):
looking
for
that
food,
not
least
another
one
of
our
own
species.
Right.
So
we
would
have
been
territorial.
We
know
chimpanzee
has
war,
so
there
would
have
been
competition
with
other
groups
and
there
would
have
been,
you
know,
a
lot
of
possible
strife
if
they
found
you
with
a
high
resource
food
item.
S
you
would
eat

(12:07):
it
as
quickly
as
possible
and
move
on.
And,
you
know,
that
was
very
much
our
life.
We
would
not
have
had
any
kind
of
permanent
settlements,
but
we
would
have
had
a
territory
that
we
were
roaming
very
long
distances
to
guard
the
entire
the
entire
territory,
which
probably
would
have
had
fixed
resources.
So
our
brains
were
slightly
larger

(12:28):
than
chimpanzees,
but
we
could
imagine
what
was
under
the
ground.
We
could
we
could
imagine
that
it
was
growing.
We
could
imagine
when
the
rainy
season
came
that
the
tubers. 2048 00:12:36,842 --> 00:00:00,-01 Eric:
Would
be
How
did
this
capacity
for
imagination
come?
All
you
said
is
that
we
separated
when
we
came
out
of
the
trees. 2072 00:12:44,552 --> 00:00:00,-01 Dr. Stout:
Okay?
Every
every
mammal,

(12:48):
in
my
opinion,
can
do
a
little
bit
of
imagination
in
terms
of
predicting
what's
going
to
happen,
you
know,
So
when
I'm
if
I
start
running
in
the
forest,
my
dog
immediately
assumes
we're
hunting
a
deer,
makes
a
break
to
one
side
or
the
other
to
try
and
outflank
the
deer
and
then
drive
the
deer
in
front
of
me.
So
the
dog
is

(13:08):
not
correctly,
but
it
is
imagining
what
I
want
to
do.
Imagining
the
next
move
is
to,
to
me,
catch
a
deer. 2165 00:13:16,172 --> 00:00:00,-01 Eric:
Chimpanzees
just
weren't
imagining
about
tubers
on
the
ground. 2175 00:13:19,022 --> 00:00:00,-01 Dr. Stout:
They
weren't
thinking
about
that.
What
a
chimpanzee
brain
was
very
good
at
doing
was
finding
where
the
next
fruit
tree
was
going
to
be
ripe
at
the
right
time.
It
didn't
take
quite
as
much

(13:28):
knowledge
as
in
your
head
imagining
something
under
the
ground.
The
other
thing
that
chimpanzees
are
very
good
at
doing
and
our
ancestors
must
have
been,
would
be
that
social
component.
So
their
imagination
is
often
what
is
in
the
brain
of
another
animal.
And
how
how
are
you
going
to
manipulate
that

(13:48):
other
animal?
It's
it's
called
the
sort
of
Machiavellian
intelligence
hypothesis
that
we
evolved
to
both
learn
how
to
lie
to
each
other
and
successfully
lie
to
each
other.
And
chimpanzees
have
done
this.
So,
you
know,
one
of
the
early
conversations
with
Koko
the
gorilla,
I
guess
I
Koko,
pooed

(14:08):
inside
her
trailer.
And
then
when
the
handler
came
up
to
Koko
and
said,
Why
is
there
Pooh
in
the
trailer?
Koko
said,
It
is
this.
This
homeless
guy
came
in
and
he
put
in
the
trailer.
And
so,
you
know,
lying
is
something
that's
very,
very
deep
in
our
evolution,
but
also
detecting,
lying,
knowing
when
someone
has
has
has
lied
and. 2379 00:14:28,892 --> 00:00:00,-01 Eric:

(14:28):
It
would
go
together. 2384 00:14:29,822 --> 00:00:00,-01 Dr. Stout:
But
beyond
that,
you
are
able
to
manipulate
whole
groups,
right?
So
if
there's
a
troop
up
to
70,
80,
90
other
individuals
in
your
troop,
you
need
to
have
relationships
with
all
of
them,
know
how
they
are
being
manipulated
and
how
they're
manipulating
you.
You
need
to
make
alliances.
You
can't
do
something
on
your
own.
You
need
backup.

(14:49):
So
Jane
Goodall,
working
with
the
with
the
chimps,
I
do
not
only
discuss
them,
you
know,
going
to
war,
but
so
much
more
of
their
time
spent
grooming
each
other,
making
making
associations
with
each
other.
Now,
we
don't
know
when
language
started.
We
don't
imagine
it
was
particularly
advanced
at
this
point.
It
would
have
been
probably

(15:09):
similar
to
what
you
would
have
seen
in
chimpanzees.
So
gestural,
maybe
a
few
vocalizations.
But
over
the
course
of
her
evolution,
all
of
those
touch
interactions
that
primates
have,
we
would
have
kept
that
as
as
a
as
a
basic
need
and
then
added
language
interactions
on
top
of
that.
So
the
social
interaction
is

(15:30):
vital
to
our
well-being
so
that
it
we
we
need
to
touch
each
other.
We
need
to
communicate
with
each
other.
These
are
these
are
in
some
ways
similar
in
our
modern
brains.
Chimpanzees
is
all
about
the
touching,
you
know.
So
if
if
a
chimpanzee
is
sad,
it
will
turn
his
back
so
that
you
can
scratch
its
back.
And
humans
need
that
same
kind
of
interaction.
And
it's
something

(15:50):
that
I
really
feel
we
are
having
problems
with
in
our
society.
The
the
the
lack
of
touching
and
interaction. 2652 00:15:59,552 --> 00:00:00,-01 Eric:
Yes.
The
the
the
epidemic
of
loneliness
is. 2661 00:16:02,222 --> 00:00:00,-01 Dr. Stout:
And,
you
know,
particularly
among
men
and
older
men,
this
is
this
is
happening.
And,
you
know,
it's
it's
very
difficult

(16:10):
because
obviously
a
guy
can't
just
go
out
and
touch
people.
He
will
definitely
get
in
trouble.
Wouldn't
work.
It
wouldn't
work.
It
would
be
a
bad
idea.
But
we
need
this
as
a
species
and
we
can
make
do
with
with
conversation
a
little
bit,
right?
Just
having
a
conversation
with
someone
fulfils
a
lot
of
of
those
needs.
But
the
touch
is

(16:30):
also
a
sort
of
underlying
physiological
need
that,
you
know,
it
releases,
you
know,
oxytocin
and
hormones
that
help
relax
us.
And
I
are
stress
hormones
go
down.
So
you
the
corticosteroids
are
lowered
in
response

(16:50):
to
touch.
And
so
without
these
things
we
we
have
more
stress
and
these
are
these
are
part
of
our
physiological
evolution.
But
all
of
our
conscious
evolution,
right
of
consciousness
is
not
just
evolved
about,
you
know,
how
to
play
chess
or
something
like
that.
Consciousness
is
the
entire
suite

(17:10):
of
interactions
that
we
have
with
ourselves
in
the
world
around
us.
And
we
tend
not
to
think
of
the
consciousness,
particularly
of
other
animals.
We
tend
to
think
of,
you
know,
ourselves
as
the
only
conscious
creature.
But,
you
know,
just
as
I
was
saying
that,
you
know,
Koko,
I
figured
out
a
way
to
lie.

(17:31):
I
was
lied
to
yesterday
by
a
blue
jay,
and
Blue
Jay
was
sitting
in
a
tree
and
wanted
me
to
come
out
where
it
could
see
me
better.
I
was
I
was
sort
of
sitting
on
a
porch
behind
a
couple
of
bushes,
and
the
blue
Jay
wanted
me
to
come
out
and
stand
in
the
open.
So
it
went
to
a
tree
that
I
couldn't
see.
Just
around
the
corner,
started
imitating

(17:51):
a
hawk.
And
it
combined
a
couple
of
hawks,
and
it
sort
of
was
a
red
shouldered
hawk,
plus
an
osprey.
So
it
sounded
like
a
hawk,
but
not
one
I
knew
sort
of
doing
a
cat
hair
care
character
and
then
sort
of
a
hawk
call
and
combining
a
couple
of
calls
and
then
switching
into
Blue
Jay
angry
at
a
hawk
call.
So
then
I
got
a
guy
got
back
at
the
hawk.
So
it
was
doing
both

(18:11):
sides
of
the
fight.
It
was
doing
the
hawk
and
it
was
doing
the
blue
Jay
Mad
at
the
Hawk
for
you,
for
me.
So
that
I
then
stood
up,
walked
around
the
corner
to
see
what
this
hawk
was
doing
in
the
tree
out,
flew
the
blue.
Jay
flew
directly
at
me,
looked
me
in
the
face
ten
feet
over
my
head
and
went
and
flew
into
the
woods.
Now,
if
I
hadn't
been
paying
attention,
this
wouldn't

(18:31):
have
worked,
right?
So
if
I'm
not
listening
for
what
Blue
Jays
say,
they
can't
lie
to
me.
But
as
soon
as
I
start
thinking
about
the
world
of
animal
communication,
they're
communicating
all
the
time,
you
know,
just
like,
you
know,
your
dog,
your
cat
might
be
communicating
with
you.
The
rest
of
the
world
is.
So
I
don't
think
communication
at
its
sort
of
basic
level

(18:52):
is
something
brand
new
to
humans.
I
think
very
few
of
our
our
behaviors
are
unique
to
us,
but
we've
taken
many
of
them
up
to
a
much
higher
level.
So
obviously
our
linguistic
ability
far
surpasses
that
of
my
dog
or,
you
know,
your
cat
or
something.
And
it's
somewhat
the
same
strangely
with
bipedalism.
You
know,
bipedalism
is

(19:12):
a
way
of
getting
from
place
to
place.
And
we
generally
think
of
ourselves
as
so
much
physically
weaker
than
all
the
other
animals.
And
it's
true,
but
there's
nothing
that
can
come
anywhere
close
to
us.
So,
for
example,
there
is
a. 3295 00:19:24,662 --> 00:00:00,-01 Eric:
You
mean
in
terms
of. 3301 00:19:25,922 --> 00:00:00,-01 Dr. Stout:
In
terms
of
endurance. 3306 00:19:27,662 --> 00:00:00,-01 Eric:
Just. 3308 00:19:27,902 --> 00:00:00,-01 Dr. Stout:
Sheer
getting
from
one
place
to
another.
So
there
is
a
race
in
Australia
that
pits

(19:32):
humans
against
horses
over
something
like
40
miles,
maybe
it's
120
miles.
It's
really
far
and
humans
often
win. 3344 00:19:42,812 --> 00:00:00,-01 Eric:
You
mean
one
human
against
one
human
riding
a
horse?
Yes. 3356 00:19:46,562 --> 00:00:00,-01 Dr. Stout:
And
humans
often
on
their
own,
not
on
a
horse,
will
win
this
race
because
our
endurance

(19:52):
is
even
surpasses
that
of
wolves.
Now,
a
wolf
can
obviously
outrun
you,
but
talking
about
just
jogging
for
days,
not
that
I
would
want
to
do
it,
but
there
are
humans
out
there
that
can
do
it
even
beyond
what
a
wolf
would
be
able
to
do. 3422 00:20:07,862 --> 00:00:00,-01 Eric:
So
you're
saying
we're
built
to
survive? 3430 00:20:09,302 --> 00:00:00,-01 Dr. Stout:
We
are
built
to
survive,
live
and
exercise

(20:14):
in
a
way
that
maximizes
our
ability
to
travel
on
the
fewest
possible
calories.
So
we
need
exercise,
but
we
don't
burn
calories
very
quickly.
We
need
calories
and
we
store
them
really
well.
So
everything
is
stacked
against
us
in
terms
of
how
much
exercise
we
need. 3487 00:20:33,522 --> 00:00:00,-01 Eric:
We're
built

(20:34):
for
a
consistent
but
not
very
fast
movement. 3498 00:20:40,202 --> 00:00:00,-01 Dr. Stout:
Yeah,
in
many
ways,
I
think
of
us
as
sort
of
chimpanzees,
poor
relations
chimpanzees
I
was
mentioning,
have
a
pretty
easy
life.
But
during
the
dry
season,
chimpanzees
are
going
to
have
to
walk
further.
They're
going
to
have
to
start
seeking
out
new
forms
of
calories.
They
might

(20:54):
even
start
hunting
a
little
bit.
You
know,
they'll
they'll
they'll
they'll
take
a
stick
and
jab
it
into
a
tree
hole
to
see
if
there's
anything
in
the
hall
and
then
pull
out
the
piece
of
meat
and
share
it
that
way.
You
know,
they
talk
about
prostitution
as
the
oldest
profession,
but
you
can
see
it
way
back
in
in
in
the
chimps.
The
only
time
a
female
is
likely
to
ever

(21:14):
get
meat
is
from
a
male
in
exchange
for
mating
opportunity.
So
the
males
almost
never
share
the
meat,
but
they
will
in
a
very
sort
of
barter
kind
of
relationship.
And
so
this
is
also
built
very
deeply
into
our
into
our
consciousness.
And
so
why
would
the
female
be
willing
to
do
this?
She
needs
a
supply
of
extra
calories

(21:35):
to
help.
You
know,
I
developing
fetus
or
an
infant.
And
chimpanzees
will
also
build
relationships
like
this.
So
there
will
be
an
alliance
between
males
and
females
in
exchange
for
feeding
future
mating
possibilities,
even
if
they're
not.
She's
not
in
estrus
at
that
time.

(21:55):
Humans
are
truly
strange
when
it
comes
to
reproduction.
We're
one
of
the
few
creatures
that
the
females
fool
us
into
thinking
they
are
receptive
all
the
time
and
they
actually
can,
you
know,
become
pregnant
quite
a
bit
of
the
year
right.
So,
so
out
of
every
month,

(22:15):
you
know,
two
weeks
or
so,
they're
receptive
and
it's
hard
to
tell
that
they're
not
the
rest
of
the
month.
Whereas
chimpanzees
get
a
giant
sexual
swelling
that
is
obvious
from
across
the
room
and
every
every
male
knows
it.
But
they
will,
knowing
this
period
of
time
is
coming
up,
will
make
alliances
with
males.
So
that
they
can
then
choose

(22:36):
the
male
that
they
get
to
meet
with.
And
not
just
every
male
in
the
troop,
whi
is
how
most
females
end
up
starting
in
the
chimp
groups.
So,
you
know,
this
is
another
thing
that
is
is
is
deeply
part
of
our
consciousness,
is
understanding
that
alliances
need
to
be
made
to
provide
resources

(22:56):
for
children
and
for,
you
know,
for
offspring,
and
that
sexual
relationships
are
absolutely
part
of
these
alliances.
But
they
might
not
employ
sex
immediately.
Right.
The
sex
might
be
implied
in
part
of
the
entire
alliance
arrangement
that's
going

(23:16):
to
include
things
like
food
and
resources
and
grooming
each
other
and
spending
time
with
each
other
done
by
chimps. 3958 00:23:24,932 --> 00:00:00,-01 Eric:
Sounds
language. 3961 00:23:26,192 --> 00:00:00,-01 Dr. Stout:
Yes.
Yes.
All
the
the
language
we
have
at
that
point
would
be,
you
know,
vocalizations,
facial
expressions,
you
know,
gestures.
You
know,
this

(23:38):
different
different
things
to
call
another
chimp
over,
but
very
much
holding
the
entire
group
together
based
on
this
system
of
alliances.
So,
you
know,
consciousness
is
something
that
builds
up
in
stages
and
pieces.
So
we
don't
know
what
the
first
hominins
out
on
the
Serengeti
would
have
had
as
a
consciousness.

(23:58):
But
we
can
assume
that
they
had
everything
that
the
chimpanzees
had,
maybe
plus
a
little
bit
extra
because
their
brains
got
slightly
bigger
and
they
would
have
had
to
do
a
few
more
things.
They
probably
had
to
have
a
larger
territory
that
might
have
meant
a
larger
group
protecting
that
territory.
They
probably,
you
know,
they
undoubtedly
would
have
had
to
have
a
larger
mental
map
of

(24:18):
their
resources
just
to
know
where
things
are
going
to
be
at
the
right
times.
They
have
to
have
a
good
sense
of
the
seasons,
right.
They
have
to
know
what's
going
down,
the
rainy
season,
what's
going
to
happen
in
the
dry
season.
These
are
very,
very
different
times
in
Africa.
And
if
you're
in
the
wrong
place,
you're
not
going
to
survive.
So
you
have
to
be
in
the
right
place
at
the
right
time.
It's
not
just
the
places.
So
all
of
these
things
are

(24:38):
part
of
a
developing
mental
map,
development
of
consciousness,
unders
what's
happening
in
other
people's
brains,
understanding
how
it's
like
what
happens
in
your
brain.
So
how
do
I
lie
to
this
person?
How
do
I
manipulate
them? 4234 00:24:51,402 --> 00:00:00,-01 Eric:
That's
some
advanced
imagination,
imagining
what's
happening
in
someone
else's
brain. 4246 00:24:56,192 --> 00:00:00,-01 Dr. Stout:
But
it's
what,
you
know,
the
Blue
Jay
was
doing

(24:59):
imagining
what's
in
my
brain.
It
was,
you
know,
it
could
have
been
wrong
if
I
wasn't
paying
any
attention.
It
would
have
just
been
making
calls
off
into
the
trees
and
just
a
bird.
But
because
I
was
listening,
it
imagined
I
was
listening
and
it
happened
to
be
right.
And
then
it
was
able
to
fool
me,
you
know?
So
there
is,
you
know,
I
when
I
was

(25:19):
traveling
in
in
Java,
there
was
a
troupe
of
macaques
in
the
rainforest,
and
we
were
we
were
walk
along
in
the
rainforest
and
they
tried
to
get
me
to
give
them
my
garbage.
So
we'd
had
a
little
picnic
and
it
was
there
was,
you
know,
a

(25:39):
bag
of
food.
And
the
macaques
wanted
the
garbage.
So
they
start
off
with
a
mother
holding
her
little
baby,
and
she's
showing
me
the
little
baby,
trying
to
get
the
food
from
me
by
manipulating
me.
And
she
absolutely
had
a
model
in
her
brain
of
I
would
give
her
food
because
she
had
a
little
baby.
And,
you
know,
I'm
like,
get
away
from
me,
you
parasite.

(25:59):
And,
you
know,
keep
walking
on.
And
the
next,
you
know,
it
was
like,
you
know,
the
three
trolls
or
the
three
billy
goats
gruff
kind
of
thing.
So
the
next
one
that
comes
is
a
is
a
full
grown,
dominant
male
macaque
with
a
really
large
fangs,
which
he
shows
to. 4496 00:26:17,762 --> 00:00:00,-01 Eric:
Me
they
can
be
intimidating. 4502 00:26:18,962 --> 00:00:00,-01 Dr. Stout:
And
big
muscles,

(26:20):
which
he's
flexing
and
he
and
I'm
like,
let's
go.
And
and
I
get
ready
to
kick
him
if
he
if
he
comes
at
me. 4531 00:26:28,562 --> 00:00:00,-01 Eric:
There
was
no
rock
available. 4537 00:26:30,482 --> 00:00:00,-01 Dr. Stout:
That
that
Yeah
that's
later
in
the
story
but
yeah
the.
Hee
hee
hee
hee
hee
hee
hee
hee.
Backs
down
and
then
a
few
more
feet
there's
another
one

(26:40):
large
big
macaque
now
and
I
do
the
same
thing
and
I'm
putting
the
food
bag
behind
me,
but
now
they've
predicted
me
so
they
run
up
my
back,
slash
the
bag
of
food.
Everyone
grabs
a
piece
and
there's
like
six
monkeys,
and
then
there's
no
monkeys
and
there's
no
food.
And
it
was
all
over
in
a
blink
of
an
eye.
And

(27:00):
they
had
completely
predicted
my
actions
and
outsmarted
me.
And,
you
know,
they
they
had
a
mental. 4649 00:27:06,152 --> 00:00:00,-01 Eric:
Map
on
this
again. 4654 00:27:07,172 --> 00:00:00,-01 Dr. Stout:
And
again.
And
they
had
a
mental
map
of
how
I
would
react.
And
they
had
a
plan
and
they
they
they'd
set
themselves
up
along
the
path
because
they
knew
I
was
going
to
be
there.
And
they,
they,
I,
they,
I
fell
into
every
one
of
their
traps. 4705 00:27:20,342 --> 00:00:00,-01 Eric:
That
sounds

(27:20):
like
our
friend's
story
from
the
Diamond
district. 4716 00:27:23,702 --> 00:00:00,-01 Dr. Stout:
Yeah,
well,
yeah.
No,
I
mean,
this
is.
This
is.
This
is
how
people
are.
We
make
predictions
off
of
each
other
and
and
we
are
able
to,
I
you
know,
exploit
them.
That
can
be
for,
you
know,
robbery
purposes. 4758 00:27:38,172 --> 00:00:00,-01 Eric:
So
so
that's
what
the
blue.
J

(27:41):
Blue.
J
Yeah.
The
blue
Jay
was
trying
to
do
to
you. 4778 00:27:43,832 --> 00:00:00,-01 Dr. Stout:
It
was
predicting
Me
Yeah. 4784 00:27:44,972 --> 00:00:00,-01 Eric:
Right,
Right.
And
this
is
exactly
what
the
macaques
were
doing. 4796 00:27:48,152 --> 00:00:00,-01 Dr. Stout:
Yeah.
Yeah.
So. 4800 00:27:49,472 --> 00:00:00,-01 Eric:
So
this
happens
across
the
animal
kingdom
at
every
level. 4811 00:27:51,782 --> 00:00:00,-01 Dr. Stout:
At
every
level.
To
the
extent
that
things
have
brains,
but
things
have
more
brains
than
you'd
think
that,
you
know,
birds.
You
know,
we
think
of
bird
brains,
they're
actually
really
smart.
Basically
things
like
jays
and
crows

(28:01):
are
quite
intelligent.
There's
crows
out
there
that
can
make
tools.
They'll
actually
strip
a
stick
and
stick
it
into
a
hole
and
pull
out
a
bug
with
it.
And
so,
you
know,
these
kinds
of
capabilities
that
we
think
of
unique
as
uniquely
ours
are
throughout
the
animal
kingdom,
but
we
definitely
also
do
them
better.
And

(28:22):
we
like
to
think
of
the
gap
between
ourselves
and
the
animal
kingdom
being
based
on
our
mentality.
What
I'm
trying
to
say
is
at
least
at
the
same
level
as
we're
that
much
better
than
them
on
our
thoughts,
we're
that
much
more
advanced
on
our
bipedalism.
Our
ability
to
go
long
distances
is
as
unique
a
human

(28:43):
adaptation
as
our
advanced
consciousness
is.
It's
something
that
other
animals
do.
We
have
just
specialized
on
it
and
so
we
shouldn't
think
of
ourselves. 4993 00:28:54,692 --> 00:00:00,-01 Eric:
Going,
I'm
sorry,
we
shouldn't
think
we. 5001 00:28:56,402 --> 00:00:00,-01 Dr. Stout:
Shouldn't
think
of
ourselves
as
specialists
in,
you
know,
forming
cities.
We
should
think
of
ourselves
very
much
as
specialists

(29:03):
in
being
super
poor
and
maximizing
resources
and
then
working
together
and
against
each
other
to
get
those
resources
that
are
our
societies
are
what
keep
us
alive.
But
society
preying
on
other
members
of
society
is
built
in
from
the
very

(29:23):
beginning
with
everything
from
robbery
to
prostitution. 5071 00:29:26,972 --> 00:00:00,-01 Eric:
So
so
the
unique,
the
unique
things
about
us
at
this
stage
are
the
the,
the
walking
long
distances,
the
endurance,
the
walking
and
the. 5097 00:29:38,612 --> 00:00:00,-01 Dr. Stout:
That's
pretty
much
it.
I
mean,
I
love. 5106 00:29:40,352 --> 00:00:00,-01 Eric:
There's
no
other
quality. 5111 00:29:41,732 --> 00:00:00,-01 Dr. Stout:
Not
tremendously
unique.

(29:44):
We
just
have
big
teeth
for
grinding.
Our
teeth
are
larger
than
any
other
primates
at
this
time
and
we
can
walk
really
long
distances.
Our
brains
are
ever
so
slightly
larger,
but
we're
following
the
same. 5152 00:29:55,502 --> 00:00:00,-01 Eric:
You
say
it's
the
walking
and
the
thinking. 5161 00:29:57,572 --> 00:00:00,-01 Dr. Stout:
That's
the
beginning
of
thinking.
So
chimpanzees
are
remarkably
intelligent
animals
already,
right?
So
they're

(30:04):
they're
they're
they're
they're
far,
far
advanced
of
of
of
of
the
monkeys
which
are
advanced
of,
say,
you
know,
your
dog
or
your
cat.
So
we're
already
well
along
the
path
towards
intelligence,
but
mostly
for
social
reasons
at
this
point.
Okay.
And
you
don't
need
that
big
a
brain
because
the
monkeys
can
already
do
a
pretty
good
job
of
it.
Okay.

(30:24):
So
we
now
we've
grown
our
brain
a
little
bit
because
you're
never
going
to
spend
calories
on
something
you
don't
need,
especially
in
this
environment.
Right.
You're
not
going
to
have
extra. 5274 00:30:32,552 --> 00:00:00,-01 Eric:
But
we
need
a
little
more
because
our
environment. 5284 00:30:34,412 --> 00:00:00,-01 Dr. Stout:
Changed,
our
environment
got
a
little
harder
and
so
our
brain
gets
a
little
bit
bigger.
And
so
most
of
what
our
brain
is
probably
doing
is
social
interaction

(30:45):
and
the
mental
map
of
where
we
are.
So
understanding
in
time
and
space
where
the
resources
are
and
then
understanding
what
it
what
it
would
take
to
get
other
members
of
our
troop
to
help
us
out,
give
us
food
when
we
need
food,
help
us
when
we're
sick,
you
know,
bring
food
to
us
if
we
need
it,
bring
food
to
our
babies
if
we
need
it.
And

(31:05):
I
basically
keeping
the
whole
the
whole
system
going
needed
just
a
little
bit
extra.
And
so
that
little
bit
extra
brain
is
not
a
tremendous
cost,
but
it's
going
to
be
something
that
we're
spending
calories
on.
And
so
given
that
we're
specialists
in
not
using
up
calories,
it's
a
big
deal
that
we've
now
grown
our
brain
a
little
bit
bigger.

(31:26):
But
seriously,
what
we
spent
our
entire
time
doing
would
be
chewing
and
walking.
Can
you
chew
gum
and
walk
at
the
same
time?
We're
literally
evolved
to
do
that. 5477 00:31:37,292 --> 00:00:00,-01 Eric:
Which
explains
my
kids
love
of
gum. 5485 00:31:39,842 --> 00:00:00,-01 Dr. Stout:
Yeah,
exactly.
No,
we
are
literally
evolved
to
do
that.
We
should
have
much
harder
gum.
We
should
be
chewing
much
more,

(31:47):
much
more
difficult
foods.
Yes,
it
will
wear
down
our
teeth,
but
our
teeth
are
pretty
tough
and
it
will
give
us
much
better
jaw
muscles.
I
actually
have
some
interesting
theories
on
orthodontia
that
a
lot
of
orthodontia
is
is
because
we
don't
we
don't
chew
enough,
which
doesn't
create
enough
jaw
space
for
our
teeth
to
come
in
properly.
That,
you

(32:07):
know,
if
you
think
about
hunter
gatherers,
they
didn't
ever
have
dentists
and
they
somehow
got
through
their
wisdom
teeth
erupting,
erupting
at
the
age
of
20
without
dying.
Okay.
So,
you
know,
if
they
hadn't
had
room
for
their
wisdom
teeth,
they
all
would
have
died.
Interesting.
And
so
we
must
have
had
larger
jaws
and
we
definitely
had

(32:27):
larger
teeth.
So
we
even
had
larger
jaws.
And
that
would
have
been
the
only
way
right
up
until
we
became
farmers.
So
we
had
much
larger
jaws,
too,
about
10,000
years
ago.
And
we
can
see
this
in
Aboriginal
groups,
particularly
in
Australia
today.
They
have
the
largest
teeth
and
jaws
of
any
other
group. 5687 00:32:47,582 --> 00:00:00,-01 Eric:

(32:47):
So
we've
so
we've
been
talking
about
millions
of
years
ago.
So
so
what,
what,
what
makes
this
transition
from
two
to,
you
know,
the
more
contemporary
farmers
from
the,
from
the
oh. 5721 00:33:05,432 --> 00:00:00,-01 Dr. Stout:
We're
still
not
up
to
farming,
we're
not
doing
where
we
are,

(33:07):
we're
not
going. 5737 00:33:09,192 --> 00:00:00,-01 Eric:
Yeah,
future
talk. 5741 00:33:10,822 --> 00:00:00,-01 Dr. Stout:
Farming
is
where
everything
goes
wrong.
That's
when
we
become
lazy
and
get
cavities
and
and
it
all
goes
wrong.
And
we
do
still
exercise,
but
we
exercise
badly
and
we
get
bad. 5775 00:33:21,722 --> 00:00:00,-01 Eric:
That's
such
a
better
way
to
live. 5783 00:33:23,792 --> 00:00:00,-01 Dr. Stout:
It
does
in
less.
You
think
of

(33:27):
the
hunter
gatherer
life.
It's
actually
incredibly
perfect.
It's
what
we
evolved
for.
So
what
we're
and. 5808 00:33:35,732 --> 00:00:00,-01 Eric:
What
we're
still
evolved
for
even
now. 5816 00:33:37,262 --> 00:00:00,-01 Dr. Stout:
Even
now,
Yeah.
So
we
evolved
that
millions
of
years
of
evolution
to
be
a
hunter
gatherer
involves
very
little
work
every
day.
They
actually
can
get
most
of
their
calories
without

(33:47):
working
as
long
as
a
farmer
does.
It
involves
a
lot
of
walking.
But
if
you
don't
mind
walking,
that's
not
so
bad. 5872 00:33:55,362 --> 00:00:00,-01 Eric:
And
I've. 5875 00:33:55,622 --> 00:00:00,-01 Dr. Stout:
Walked.
So
it's
a
lot
of
walking
at
this
point.
It
would
have
been
some
digging
later
on.
Our
evolution
would
be
some
hunting,
but
not,
you
know,
not
more
than
a
couple
of
hours
a
day
most.
And
then
the
rest. 5918 00:34:07,702 --> 00:00:00,-01 Eric:
Where

(34:07):
we
digging
with
our
hands
or
were
we
digging
with. 5930 00:34:09,782 --> 00:00:00,-01 Dr. Stout:
Tools,
we
would
assume. 5935 00:34:11,852 --> 00:00:00,-01 Eric:
That
would
make
a
difference,
that. 5942 00:34:13,082 --> 00:00:00,-01 Dr. Stout:
The
Australopithecines
would
have
been
able
to
have
a
stick.
We
don't
know
because
Styx
wouldn't
have
survived.
But
We
know
that
chimpanzees
certainly
use
simple
tools
like
a
stick
or
a
rock
to
dig.
So
I
would
assume
that
that
they
would
have
done
that
with
a
stick
or
a
rock.
We
didn't
actually

(34:28):
end
up
with
fingers
well
adapted
to
digging.
And
for
this
first
4
million
years,
our
fingers
actually
were
long
and
thin
still,
which
were
very
good
for
climbing
trees,
not
good
for
holding
things,
even
even
even
that.
Stick
for
digging
or
a
rock
for
digging.
We
could
hold
it,
but
it
would
have
been
a
very
a
poor
grip,
just
sort

(34:48):
of
fingers
on
to
palm,
not
a
finger
thumb
grip.
And
so
we
could
hold
things.
Certainly.
Certainly
chimps
can.
But
these
were
fingers
that
were
evolved,
for
one,
from
trees
climbing
up
a
tree
very
quickly.
And
we
think
they
spent
a
lot
of
time
in
trees.
So,
for
example,
Lucy,
one
of
the
very
early
australopithecine
fossils
that
was
found

(35:09):
we
think
fell
out
of
a
tree.
And
so
she
has
broken
femur
and
pelvis
that
indicates
she
fell
like,
you
know,
40
feet
out
of
a
tree
and
then
fell
immediately
into
a
water
where
she
happened
to
be
preserved.
And
you
know
that
that's
how
we
have
her
fossil.
And
there's
not
a
lot
of
fossils
because
not
everyone
falls
out
of
a
tree
into
water
immediately. 6192 00:35:26,702 --> 00:00:00,-01 Eric:
But
it
fell
out
of
a
tree
and
rolled
right

(35:29):
into
water. 6205 00:35:29,882 --> 00:00:00,-01 Dr. Stout:
Pretty
much,
yeah.
Within
Within,
you
know,
a
day
or
two
of
of
having
fallen
out
of
the
tree
was
in
water
and
then
covered.
So
maybe
a
flood
came
and
put
sediments
over
her
before
the,
you
know,
again
Serengeti
full
of
scavengers.
So
along
comes
the
scavenger
cracks
all
the
bones.
Yeah.
Yeah.
She
had
to
and
covered
over
pretty
quickly.
But

(35:49):
the
point
is
that
we
were
still
very
much
needing
trees.
So
this
was
a
an
area
where,
yes,
it's
Serengeti,
but
there's
these
patches
of
trees
within
the
Serengeti.
And
so
we
started
off
as
a
jungle
creature
living
in
trees
and
then
were
walking
from
patch
of
tree
to
patch
of
tree
to
patch
of
tree.
But
each
patch
of
trees
only
has
a
certain

(36:09):
amount
of
resources.
So
we
maximize
the
resources
we
get
out
of
that
patch
of
trees,
store
as
much
of
it
that
we
can
as
fat,
and
then
we
walk
to
the
next
next
patch
of
trees
and
we
sleep
in
the
trees
during
the
day
and
we
come
out
and
we
dig
around
them.
The
trees
are
almost
always
near
water,
so
there's
a
lot
of
water
nearby.
Now
it's
interesting,
if
you
think
about

(36:30):
chimpanzees
and
gorillas
compared
to
monkeys,
they
actually
have
less
fur
on
them
than
monkeys.
And
so
one
of
the
other
things
you
might
notice
about
humans
is
we're
slightly
less
furry
than
the
monkeys
are.
And
so
this
is
probably
happening
during
the
same
period
of
time
where
we're
moving
out
onto
the
grassland.
And
so
in
general,
there's
a
correlation
with
the
larger
the

(36:50):
primate
is,
the
less
fur
it
has.
And
this
would
have
set
us
up
nicely.
For
whatever
reason,
almost
none
of
the
other
primates
sweat.
It
doesn't
make
a
lot
of
sense
to
sweat
in
a
rainforest
is
almost
100%
humidity,
so
you
don't
get
any
evaporative
cooling,
right?
So
we
move
out
onto
the
Serengeti
as
these
furry,
non
sweating
apes,
and
we're
getting
hot

(37:11):
really
quickly
and
we're
being
eaten
all
the
time.
So
we
have
to
figure
out
a
way
to
divide
our
habitat
into
a
way
that
avoids
predators
and
allows
us
to
walk
from
place
to
place
and
scavenge
food
without
getting
eaten
by
all
the
time.
So
all
of
the
predators
on
the
Serengeti
are
most
active
during
the
morning
and
the
evening
and
sometimes
at
night.
So

(37:31):
we
climb
into
the
trees
at
night
to
avoid
that
whole
period.
And
then
we
get
up
and
we
move
around
during
the
middle
of
the
day
when
it's
super
hot,
hottest. 6645 00:37:37,802 --> 00:00:00,-01 Eric:
Part
of
the
day
when
the
other
animals
don't
want
to
move. 6658 00:37:39,662 --> 00:00:00,-01 Dr. Stout:
Around.
And
so
what
we
evolved
the
ability
to
do
is
to
sweat
off
of
a
naked
skin.
So
we
lost
our
fur
and
we
sweat
and
that
evaporative
cools
us
and
we
need
a
lot
of
water. 6697 00:37:49,892 --> 00:00:00,-01 Eric:
LONG
Does
a
transition
like

(37:51):
that
take
that
sounds
like
that
would
take
a
very
long
time. 6715 00:37:54,512 --> 00:00:00,-01 Dr. Stout:
All
of
these
things
were
selected
for
very
highly.
That's
why
I
said
we
don't
have
a
lot
of
intermediary
fossils. 6737 00:38:01,022 --> 00:00:00,-01 Eric:
So
these
so
the
things
that
did
not
they
would
have
died
very
quick. 6752 00:38:05,942 --> 00:00:00,-01 Dr. Stout:
Right.
And
we
don't
have
any
fossils
of
sweat
glands
or
hair,
so
we
really
don't
know.

(38:12):
But
what
you
see
is
a
very
quick
transition
to
being
a
biped 6783 00:00:00,-01 --> 00:38:17,042 , you 6784 00:00:00,-01 --> 00:00:00,-01
know,
So
if
you
think
of
a
a
of
a
dog
skull,
it
is
a
hole
at
the
back
of
the
skull,
the
form
of
Magnum
where
the
where
the
spinal
cord
attaches
at
the
back
of
the
skull.
If
you
think
of
a
human
skull,
it
has
a
hole
at
the
bottom
of
the
skull
to
hold
the
skull
on
so
that
you
can

(38:32):
look
forward
and
look
instead
of
looking
straight
up.
Right.
So
that
happened
very,
very
quickly.
As
we
move
to
being
bipeds,
the
central
form
in
Magnum
appears
very
early
in
the
fossils.
A
couple
other
things.
If
you
look
at
a
chimpanzee's
pelvis,
it
has
these
two
long
things
in
the
back
to
sort
of
hold
the
lower
back
while
you're
bent
over,

(38:52):
not
walking
on
your
knuckles.
If
you
look
at
a
human's
pelvis,
it
looks
like
a
bowl.
So
so
that's
for
a
vertical
oriented
organism
with
a
cup
shaped
or
bowl
shaped
pelvis
to
hold
your
internal
organs
in
place
as
you're
walking
around.
That
also
occurs
fairly
quickly.
So
these
these
adaptations
where
you
couldn't
survive
without
it

(39:12):
happened
very
quickly,
you
know,
quickly
could
easily
be
half
a
million
years
or
a
million
years.
And
they
just
we
don't
have
any
fossils
from
that
intermediary
one.
We
have
a
lot
of
fossils
that
are
part
way. 7012 00:39:23,222 --> 00:00:00,-01 Eric:
They're
an
evolutionary
quick
movement
is
something
that
could
take
between
a
half
a
million.
Well,
this. 7030 00:39:28,772 --> 00:00:00,-01 Dr. Stout:
Was
a
brand
new
ecosystem.
This
was
this
was
as
large
an
adaptation
as

(39:32):
birds
getting
wings
right.
So
I
a
a
African
ape
moving
on
to
a
grassland.
Apes
have
never
been
on
a
grassland
before.
We're
the
first
ones
to
figure
it
out.
It
was
by
necessity.
Ou
jungle
dried
out
and
it's
a
whole
new
ecosystem
niche

(39:53):
that
we
can
now
exploit.
And
so
it's
you
get
what's
called
I
i,
i
radiation
and
speciation
into
all
the
different
possible
habitats.
So
some
of
these
are
better
walkers
than
others.
Some
of
them
have
longer
legs,
some
of
them
have
shorter
legs,
some
of

(40:13):
them
have
stronger
bones.
They
maybe
did
more
digging,
others
have
even
jaws.
They
all
have
large
jaws,
but
some
of
them
have
really,
really
large
jaws.
And
they
could
have
been
chewing
on
ones
that
the
other,
you
know,
more
grass
while
i
australopithecines
would
not
have
been
able
to
chew.
So
the
groups
are

(40:33):
radiating
into
many
different
species.
So
it's
not
a
straight
sort
of
line
between
chimpanzees
and
us,
but
it's
a
very
bushy
family
tree. 7218 00:40:42,092 --> 00:00:00,-01 Eric:
And
nonetheless,
all
of
them
had
the
ability
to
adapt
or
they
would
have
just
died. 7235 00:40:47,012 --> 00:00:00,-01 Dr. Stout:
Well,
yeah,
I
mean,
every
everything
is
always
adapted
to
whatever
it
happens
to
be.
And
it's
just
that
this
is
a
very
new
environment.

(40:53):
And
so
the
adaptations
are
very
happening
very
rapidly
at
this
point. 7273 00:40:57,662 --> 00:00:00,-01 Eric:
And
with
great
variety.
Yeah. 7279 00:40:59,192 --> 00:00:00,-01 Dr. Stout:
And
it
turns
out
there's
also
a
lot
of
just
I
it
doesn't
always
have
to
be
evolutionary
adaptation.
That's
what
we're
talking
about.
But
the
body
can
adapt
to
a
new
environment
on
its
own.
So
there's
a
strain

(41:14):
or
an
ostrich.
There
is
a
practice
in
Japan
where
they
force
macaques
to
walk
on
two
legs
and
act
in.
I,
I
plays
as
a
samurai
monkey. 7348 00:41:30,362 --> 00:00:00,-01 Eric:
That
doesn't
sound. 7352 00:41:32,072 --> 00:00:00,-01 Dr. Stout:
Right.
And
they,
they,
they,
they

(41:34):
force
slash
encourage
them
to
walk
up
to
two
kilometers
a
day,
like
holding
their
hands
as
they
walk
along
up
and
down
the
street.
And
these
macaques
actually
develop
many
of
the
adaptations
you
would
expect
in
a
biped
because
they're
forced
to
become
bipeds. 7405 00:41:49,172 --> 00:00:00,-01 Eric:
They
develop
them
in
an
individual. 7412 00:41:51,272 --> 00:00:00,-01 Dr. Stout:
In
an
individual.
So
obviously
you
don't
see
the
skeletal

(41:54):
adaptations
that
you
would
expect
to
see
in
a
biped
in
terms
of
the
way
the,
you
know,
the
hip
sockets
are
going
to
be
going
in. 7450 00:42:02,012 --> 00:00:00,-01 Eric:
Evolutionary
change. 7453 00:42:03,362 --> 00:00:00,-01 Dr. Stout:
Or
the
way,
you
know,
when
we
walk,
our
knees
are
directly
under
us.
They're
not
on
either
side.
When
a
chimpanzee
walks,
its
knees
are
under
its
hips,
and
so
it
tends
to
go
from
side
to
side,
whereas

(42:14):
humans
can
walk
straight
forward.
These
macaques
don't
get
knees
directly
under
them
because
that's
just
a
thing
they
they
don't
have.
They
haven't
evolved
that
far,
but
they
are
able
to
walk
as
bipeds
for
for,
you
know,
over
a
mile
every
day
and
they're
able
to
stand
on
stage
and
do
their
their
scenes
very
well.

(42:35):
So,
yeah,
you
could
imagine
that,
you
know,
a
chimpanzee
can
take
a
couple
of
steps
as
a
as
a
biped.
They're
not
very
good
at
it.
What
kind
of
adaptation
would
that
give
you
right
away?
Your
inner
grassland.
You
need
to
get
to
the
next
patch.
Simply
standing
on
two
legs
gets
you
above
the
grass.
Right?
So
now

(42:55):
you
can
see
if
there's
anything
else
out
there
and
you
can
see
where
the
next
tree
is.
And
so
then
you
go
back
down
to
all
fours,
but
now
you're
lost,
so
you
spend
more
and
more
time
being
upright.
Now,
I'm
not
saying
that
this
is
Lamarckian
evolution
where
one
chimpanzee
passed
down
acquired
characteristics
for
the
next
generation,
but
there
is
an
advantage
right
away
to
having
some
of
these
primitive
patients
do. 7689 00:43:15,182 --> 00:00:00,-01 Eric:
That

(43:15):
instantly,
have
a
disadvantage. 7695 00:43:16,802 --> 00:00:00,-01 Dr. Stout:
Instantly
have
a
disadvantage.
And
so
it
was
selected
for
very,
very
quickly.
And
so
you
see
adaptations
going
in
a
bunch
of
different
directions,
but
all
of
them
allowing
for
these
longer
distances.
Yeah.
So
I
want
to
I
want
to
continue
on
with
these
discussions,

(43:36):
sort
of
move
us
through
evolution
until
we
get
to
talking
about
these
evolutionary
history
in
relation
to,
you
know,
our
modern
existence.
But
we're
still
we're
still
we
haven't
even
gotten
big
brains
yet.
So
next
time
what
I'd
like
to
do
is
start
talking
about
how
we
got
these
larger
brains

(43:56):
beginning
of
genus
homo
moving
from
the
Australopithecines,
which
were
our
first
4
million
years
of
evolution,
basically
bipedal
chimpanzees
to
now
the
next
2
million
years
up
till
now,
where
we
have
large
brains
and
we
have
the
capabilities
of
of
a
large
brain
hunter
out
on
the
Serengeti,
which

(44:16):
changes
everything.
You
know,
being
a
occasional
scavenger
and
a
digger
of
tubers
is
quite
different
from
what
what
our
genus
then
evolves
into,
which
is
is
is
hunters
with
tools
and
fire
and
a
and
a
whole
new
class
of
living.
So

(44:36):
just
like
you
have
adaptive
radiation
with
the
the,
the
bipeds
moving
out
of
the
Serengeti
are
becoming
a
large
brained
tool
user
is
another
kind
of
ecological
niche
that
we
are
then
able
to
exploit
and
gives
us
entire
new
set
of
capabilities.
And
so
that's
what
I'd
like
to
talk
about
next
time. 7945 00:44:54,242 --> 00:00:00,-01 Eric:
I'm
actually
exciting.
Excellent.
Excellent.
All

(44:56):
right.
Thanks. 7954 00:44:58,082 --> 00:00:00,-01 Dr. Stout:
Thank
you.