It’s (Mostly) Not Your Fault - And It’s Not Theirs Either

Dr. Josh Stout believes it's time for compassion for ourselves and others, and that our evolutionary heritage demands it for our survival.

Episode Transcript

(00:08):
Wednesday,
October
25th.
This
is
episode
six.
Hi,
Josh. 11 00:00:13,170 --> 00:00:00,-01 Dr. Stout:
Hi,
Eric.
All
right,
so
this
is
Dr.
Stewart,
and
I
am
here
to
slightly
change
the
subject.
I've
been
trying
to
stay
on
a
history
of
human
evolution,
but
I
just
feel
like
I
need
to
talk
about
some
of
the
causes

(00:28):
of
why
we
do
what
we
do,
how
we
end
up
doing
what
we
do,
and
why
we
need
to
have
compassion
for
ourselves
and
others.
Because
in
many
ways,
we're
where
we're
not
masters
of
our
own
actions
in
many
cases.
And
so
I
just
want
to
start
off
with
some
world
news
that
what's
going
on
both
in

(00:48):
the
the
U.S.
and
the
Israeli
Palestinian
conflicts
and
just
thinking
about
how
no
one
is
benefiting
from
these
activities
that
we're
looking
at
essentially
balanced
oppositions
that
cause
everything
to
come
to
a
halt
and
that
no
one
involved
is
benefiting.

(01:09):
And
so
you
can
see
this
certainly
in
the
in
the
attack
by
Hamas,
that
that
certainly
Hamas
is
not
going
to
thrive
and
the
Palestinians
are
not
thriving.
And
it
was
terrible
for
Israel.
So
how
do
these
things
happen?
And
we
can
see
them
also
in
our
own
government
where
we've
now
created
a
government
shutdown
and
nothing
is
happening

(01:29):
and
the
budget's
not
going
to
go
through.
And
how
can
this
be
benefiting
anyone?
And
the
answer
is
when
you're
looking
for
the
the
cause
of
a
crime,
you
say
cui
bono,
who
benefits?
And
so
the
person
who
is
benefiting
from
all
of
this
is
Putin.
So
what
we
see
happening
in
in
Israel
is
Israel

(01:50):
had
had
the
rise
of
a
right
wing
often
associated
with
close
ties
to
Russia
so
that
Putin
was
not
wanting
to
send
weapons
to
Ukraine
because
he
was
trying
to
facilitate
ties
with
Russia.
And
it
was
also
helping
his
own
power.
Putin
likes
to
help
strongmen
and
he
likes
to
help
authoritarian

(02:11):
leaders.
But
as
soon
as
Israel
starts
recognizing
that
the
U.S.
is
its
main
ally
and
it
better
do
what
the
U.S.
is
trying
to
ask
it
to
do,
it
starts
thinking
about
sending
some
arms
to
Ukraine
and
suddenly
Hamas
attacks
and
Hamas
is
attacking,
using
Russian
weapons.
In
some
cases,
you
know,
the
Kalashnikovs
that
they're
holding
are
classic
Russian
weapons

(02:31):
that
were
put
together
by
Hamas,
but
with
Russian
permission.
So
this
is
all
essentially
a
Russian
plot.
It's
not
helping
Hamas.
It's
not
helping
Israel,
but
it
is
helping
Putin.
And
you
can
see
it
exactly
the
same
thing
happening
in
the
in
the
U.S.,
where
you
have
two
parties
that
are
locked.
One
of
those
parties
has
been
actively

(02:51):
helped
by
Russia
to
keep
it
strong
because
Putin
doesn't
actually
want
one
party
to
succeed.
What
he
wants
is
for
gridlock.
He
wants
the
parties
to
be
perfectly
balanced.
And
so
he
has
his
his
bots
and
his
agents
constantly
working
to
support
right
wing
authoritarian
groups
across
the
world.
And
we
are
we
are
one
of

(03:11):
them.
And
what
do
we
see?
We
see
a
budget
compromise
happening
in
in
the
House.
And
they
say,
well,
we're
just
going
to
put
off
aid
to
Ukraine.
And
as
soon
as
that's
done,
everything
shuts
down
so
that
Ukraine
will
never
get
its
aid
so
quick. 561 00:03:26,800 --> 00:00:00,-01 Eric:
But
I
have
to
say,
though,
it's
not
just
the
bots
across
the
world.
It's
his
it's
his

(03:31):
oligarchs,
his
paid
agents
running
around
the
world
with
bags
of
money. 592 00:03:35,790 --> 00:00:00,-01 Dr. Stout:
Bags
of
money.
And,
you
know,
you
he
he,
he
he
infiltrated
the
FBI.
He
had
his
oligarchs
actually
paying
off
the
head
of
the
counter
espionage
group
of
the
FBI
in
New
York
City
was
paid
by
oligarchs.
So,
yeah,
he's
he's
he's
out
there
compromising

(03:51):
everything
at
every
level,
while
at
the
same
time
he
has
a
really
weak
army.
But
I
wanted
to
think
about
how
do
we
get
to
places
like
this,
How
do
we
get
to
where
someone
can
play
us
like
a
chessboard
and
put
a
few
people
into
the
right
places,
have
things
that
are
against
our
own
interests
happening. 700 00:04:08,040 --> 00:00:00,-01 Eric:
And
not
not
in
the
way
these
things.
He's
not
he's
not

(04:11):
tearing
anything
down.
He's
building
things
up.
He's
he's
he's
encouraging
things.
He's
not
destroying
anything
he's
destroying
from
the
inside.
Well. 735 00:04:20,340 --> 00:00:00,-01 Dr. Stout:
It's
it's
it's
creating
division
by
strengthening
the
sides
to
make
them
balanced.
You
know,
this
is
a
this
is
an
eternal

(04:31):
game.
Even
even
Israel
was
playing
this
game
a
little
bit
by
strengthening
Hamas
while
the
Palestinian
Authority
was
weakened
so
that
they
couldn't
ever
have
a
peace
solution.
So,
you
know,
divide
and
conquer
is
the
classic
one.
And
one
way
you
do
division
and
conquer
is
by
strengthening
the
illogical
forces.
And
I,
we
can
certainly
see
this.

(04:52):
And
so
one
of
the
things
that
we
leap
to
is
authoritarianism.
And
this
is
definitely
having
to
do
with
our
evolutionary
heritage.
We
look
to
the
strong
person,
the
strong
man,
because
that
is
who
we
come
from
as
apes,
you
know,
the
silverback
gorilla
who
rules
all
around
them
and
and
creates
a
safe,
calm
environment
where
everyone
can
have
peace

(05:12):
because
the
strong
leader
has
has
taken
care
of
us.
And
so
he's
he's
selling
this.
But
there
are
there
are
deeper
levers
within
our
subconscious
that
are
also
being
manipulated.
And
we've
over
time,
basically
made
these
levers
stronger
and
stronger
and
installed
them
deeper
and
deeper.

(05:33):
So
it
really
starts
off
with
with
racism
and
the
racism
that
we
start
off
with
is
the
racism
that
basically
everyone
has.
This
is
the
fear
of
the
other
disliking
strangers.
Why
you
feel
more
comfortable
around
your
friends
and
less
comfortable
around
a
whole
bunch
of
people
you
don't
know.
This
is
perfectly
normal.
Everyone
feels
this
way.

(05:53):
I
would
call
this
sort
of
like,
you
know,
small
r
lowercase
racism.
That
is
the
sort
of
normal
variety.
This
is
what,
say,
the
English
would
feel
for
the
Scots.
Okay,
So
it's
it's
it's
it's
a
there's
definitely
some
problems
there.
It's
not
good
for
you.
It
leads
to
whole
all
the
preconceptions
that
one
can
have
for
a
for
a
group
you
don't
know
very
well
and
can
lead
to,

(06:13):
you
know,
everything
up
to
and
including
war
like
the
English
with
the
Scots. 1076 00:06:16,710 --> 00:00:00,-01 Eric:
Is
the
basic,
you
know,
other. 1083 00:06:18,270 --> 00:00:00,-01 Dr. Stout:
This
is
just
a
basic
other
in
in
the
algebra.
Right.
So
this
is
this
is,
this
is
where
we
we
what
we
have
through
evolution.
Right.
So
we
fought
the
other
people
because
they
wanted
to
get
in
our
territory,
They
wanted
to
steal
women
from
one
group.
They,
they
were,
they
were
competing
with
us.

(06:33):
And
then
once
you
get
farming,
which
we
talked
about
last
time,
you
have
the
things
like
the
rise
of
slavery
and
the
rise
of
conquering
territory
and
stealing
actual
stored
resources
from
each
other,
All
of
these
things
are
built
deeply
into
our
evolutionary
history.
And
so
the
fear
of
the
other
is,
is
is
instinctual
and
something
that
we
feel
naturally.

(06:54):
And
slavery
was
something
that
had
been
existing
throughout
essentially
human
history.
As
soon
certainly
soon
as
soon
as
we
got
farming,
it
was
part
of
our
of
our
history.
And
so
Europeans
doing
it
in
in
the
Americas.
I
tried
it
a
variety
of
ways,
but
finally
settled
on
stealing
people
from
Africa

(07:15):
and
then
bringing
them
here
as
slaves.
At
the
same
time
as
we
were
deciding
that
maybe
we
wanted
to
be
an
egalitarian
system
based
on
democracy
and
the
equality
of
everyone,
right?
So
we're
writing
all
these
documents
and
we're
trying
to
figure
out
how
to
become
this
sort
of
dreamed
of
system
where
everyone
has
power
and
there
is
no
dictator

(07:35):
and
there
is
no
king
and
everyone
is
equal
and
there
is
no
hierarchy
of
serfs
and
lords
and
nobles,
and
we
have
slaves.
So,
you
know,
how
does
this
fit
with
our
with
our
entire
view
of
ourselves?
Well,
the
only
way
we
can
make
this
work
is
by
deciding
that
the
slaves
are
not
like
us.
The
slaves
are
different.
They
are

(07:55):
inferior
in
some
way,
and
they
deserve.
They
even
need
this
that
the
slavery,
they
would
welcome
it
because
we're
bringing
them
enlightenment.
And
so
this
is
American
racism.
This
is
the
capital,
our
racism
that
we
installed
as
a
way
of
keeping
ourselves
sane
while
doing
such
abusive
things.
We
had
to
have
a
reason
why
this
was
logical

(08:15):
and
this
was
something
that
we
could
live
with. 1454 00:08:17,790 --> 00:00:00,-01 Eric:
But
is
this
is
this
type
of
reasoning
unique
to
Americans? 1466 00:08:21,540 --> 00:00:00,-01 Dr. Stout:
I
really
do
think
it
is.
I
really
do
think
it
is.
I
think
I
think,
you
know,
if
if
England
is
doing
a
genocide
in
Ireland,
okay,
it's
not
the
same
kind
of
racism.
It's
definitely
racism
and
it's
definitely
a
genocide.

(08:36):
Right.
These
are
things
that
actually
happen
and
they
are
absolutely
racism.
But
without
the
sort
of
visual
cue
of
a
darker
skin
and
and
a
paler
society
that
where
you
can
really
identify
the
people
really
easily.
You
know,
in
England,
it's
all
based
on
accent.
That's
not
just
not
the
same.
And
this
this
is
this

(08:56):
is
a
much
deeper
one
and
in
many
ways
has
broken
the
way
we
think
from
for
a
very
long
time.
So
when
the
theory
of
evolution
was
being
brought
in
the
in
the
late
19th
century
to
intellectual
thought
in
the
in
the
United
States,
there
were
problems
with
it
between
religion
and
evolution
in

(09:16):
many
places.
But
in
the
United
States,
it
became
deep
and
it
involved
the
evangelical
church
and
it
involved
this
right
wing
alliance
between
the
evangelical
church
and
the
idea
of
being
anti-science
with
racism
as
the
dog
whistle.
And
so
this
became
the
basis
for
a
lot
of

(09:36):
the
Republican
Party's
sort
of
racist
dog
whistle
evangelical
connections.
So
the
idea
of
being
anti-evolution
was
sold
as
being
anti-Christian.
But
what
was
really
happening
is
people
didn't
want
to
be
related
to
Africans.
And
that
was
the
really
deep,
deep
feeling
right?
So
that
that
somehow
Africans

(09:57):
were
somehow
associated
with
apes,
but
not
white
people,
and
that
we
were
very
different,
made
by
God
in
in
in
God's
image.
And
that
other
other
people
were
were
inferior
in
some
way.
And
so
in
the
twenties
and
thirties,
the
racism
was
super
bad.
Segregation
and
at
its
height,
you
know,

(10:17):
lynchings,
etc..
And
this
was
being
done
in
absolute
lockstep
with
things
like
the
Scopes
Monkey
Trial
and
the
the
anti
evolutionary
feelings
of
the
day.
And
it
started
to
get
picked
up
by
the
politicians.
They
realized
that
there
was
a
way
to
actually
use
these
these
these
fear
of
other
levers
which
we
had
Accenture

(10:37):
weighted
with
our
sort
of
modern
American
racism
to
get
people
to
no
longer
listen
to
reason.
Right?
So
evolution
is
a
very,
very
reasonable
theory
that
things
change
over
time.
We
see
that
things
don't
stay
the
same.
We
can
see
that
you
can
turn
a
wolf
into
a
dog.
We
can
breed
things.
We
do

(10:57):
it
in
real
time.
You
select
for
something
and
you
see
the
reactions.
Evolution
is
just
the
same
way.
You
could
imagine
how,
you
know,
a
system
could.
You
know,
if
you're
chewing
fruit,
hard
food
all
the
time,
as
we
did
on
the
Serengeti,
your
teeth
and
jaws
end
up
being
bigger,
you
know,
over
generations,
not
Lamarck,
not
inherent
in
acquired
characteristics,
but,
you
know,

(11:17):
evolution
through
natural
selection
is
a
very
intellectually
appealing
theory
that
makes
a
lot
of
sense
that
goes
exactly
what
would
farmers
have
been
doing
ever
since
they
started
breeding
animals.
Everyone
knows
you
can
select
for
traits
and
then
watch
them
get
inherited
and
actually
produce
something
from
it.
A
new
a
new
a
new
group
of
chickens
say,
we've

(11:38):
been
doing
this
in
real
time
for
a
long
time,
Right?
So
this
is
not
a
incompletely
an
unnecessary
theory
that
we
just
invented
to
sort
of
impose
on
people.
It's
something
that
is
is
intuitively
obvious.
It's
observable.
Exactly.
And
so
how
did
we
manage
to
get
this
to
not
be
believed?

(11:58):
We
did
it
with
a
alignment
between
racism
and
the
evangelical
Christians
and
then
supported
by
the
right
wing
politicians.
And
this
became
a
movement,
this
same
kind
of
irrationality,
anti-science
movement
was
taken
on
by
the

(12:19):
by
the
oil
companies
when
they
wanted
to
stop
lead
in
gasoline.
It
was
taken
on
by
the
oil
companies
when
they
wanted
to
have
global
warming
not
be
prevented
by,
you
know,
not
using
oil.
It
was
a
way
of
attacking
scientists
as
the
elite
and
keeping
the
evangelical
community
with
the
right
wing
church.

(12:39):
And
with
that
always
that
subtext
of
racism.
So
that
subtext
of
racism
connected
with
religion
is
seen
as
protecting
us.
So
the
religion
is
our
belief
system
that
we're
protecting.
The
anti-racism
is
the
belief
system
that
we're
protecting.
All
of
this
stuff
is
necessary
to
be
who
we
are.
All
the

(12:59):
things
we
see
around
us.
Ole,
ole,
ole,
ole,
ole.
The
discrimination
against
minorities
is
immoral.
Unless.
Unless
they're
a
different
race
and
they're
just
criminals
and
they're
dangerous.
And
so
this
is
what
certainly
I,
the
right
wing
has
been
using.
But
Putin
was
able
to
to
support
this
at

(13:19):
a
much
higher
level.
He
was
able
to
every
time
someone
came
up
with
a
racist
meme,
he
was
able
to
accentuate
it.
He
was
able
to
put
racist
means
in
and
then
have
his
own
people
accentuate
those
so
that
we
were
being
manipulated
without
really
understanding
it.
We
were
being
used
with
our
own
symbols,
our
own
society. 2327 00:13:36,810 --> 00:00:00,-01 Eric:
You're
talking
2016
here.
You're
talking. 2334 00:13:39,390 --> 00:00:00,-01 Dr. Stout:

(13:39):
Right.
So
that
these
existing
systems
that
had
been
used
to
manipulate
us
and
that
we
had
found
convenient
as
ways
to
in
a
democracy
have
undemocratic
things
happen,
you
know,
how
are
we
moving
money
from
the
poor
to
the
rich
in
a
democracy
when
there's
more
poor
than
there
are
rich?
How
are
we
voting
against
our
own

(13:59):
health
care?
Right?
How
is
this
possible
at
the
only
reason
there's
actually
been
papers
done
on
this,
there's
a
very
close
association
between
how
racist
you
are
likely
to
be
and
how
little
you
want
health
care
for
people.
Now,
in
this
case,
racism
usually
means
do
you
think
minorities
have
an
unfair
advantage
in
this
country?

(14:19):
And
if
you
answer
yes,
that's
that
kind
of
racism.
Okay.
So
there
is
there
is
there
is
there
is
this
real
through
line
that
has
been
used
of
of
connecting
racism
to
the
evangelical
party
and
the
desire
to
have
a
right
wing
authoritarian
leader
that
Putin
really
pushed
with
us.
And
he's
been

(14:39):
doing
this
all
over
the
world.
You
know,
certainly
the
Hamas
Israeli
conflict
is
all
about
racism
and,
you
know,
essentially
inventing
a
difference
between
people
and
then
accentuating
it.
And
so
all
of
these
things
are
used
as
tools,
land,
land
is
also
deep
in
our
consciousness.
Right
to
farm

(14:59):
means
that
more
land
you
have,
the
more
farm
you
have.
And
people
do
definitely
feel
a
deep
connection
to
a
land.
And
certainly
that
is
related
to
religion. 2588 00:15:06,600 --> 00:00:00,-01 Eric:
I
mean,
that's
about
people
who
were
moved
off
the
land. 2600 00:15:09,570 --> 00:00:00,-01 Dr. Stout:
I
mean,
this
is
yeah,
I
want
to
I
want
to
leave
that
aside
because
it
gets
complicated.
It's
a
lot
easier
to
talk
about
how
we've
been
insulated,
manipulated
in
this
country
where

(15:20):
we
mostly
killed
off
the
people
who
own
the
land.
So
that's
not
what
we're
talking
about.
We're
talking
about
us
as
a
white
Christian
evangelical
nation,
not
wanting
immigrants
with
a
different
amount
of
melanin
in
their
skin
and
a
different
language
group
to
come
in
because

(15:41):
they
are
dirty
and
dangerous.
Anytime
you
hear
those
dirty
and
dangerous
things,
you
know,
you've
left
a
rational
discussion
aside.
You
were
now
in
the
side
of
pushing
those
buttons
that
are
deep
in
our
brains. 2720 00:15:51,660 --> 00:00:00,-01 Eric:
The
levers. 2723 00:15:52,380 --> 00:00:00,-01 Dr. Stout:
These
are
the
levers,
right?
So
when,
when,
when,
when,
when
if
you
think
about
a
an
immigrant
bringing
danger
to
this
country
through
crime
or
some
other
thing,
exactly

(16:01):
how
Trump
talked,
you're
hitting
those
buttons.
And
as
soon. 2764 00:16:03,900 --> 00:00:00,-01 Eric:
As
even
though
we
know. 2770 00:16:05,580 --> 00:00:00,-01 Dr. Stout:
Yeah
and
so
it
is. 2776 00:16:06,750 --> 00:00:00,-01 Eric:
Immigrants
are
less
likely. 2781 00:16:08,880 --> 00:00:00,-01 Dr. Stout:
Oh,
and
bring
the
money
to
the
country.
The
whole
country's
built
on
it
because
we
all
know
that
we
were
all
were
immigrants. 2806 00:16:13,410 --> 00:00:00,-01 Eric:
But
that's
facts
and
figures
that
have
been
figured
out
through
a
kind
of
science
right. 2823 00:16:17,910 --> 00:00:00,-01 Dr. Stout:
Completely
able
to
be
ignored
because
now
we
can
we
can
hit

(16:21):
the
buttons
that
show
how
we're
afraid
of
the
other.
We're
afraid
of
the
danger
of
the
disease,
of
the
crime.
You
know,
I
had
I
had
people
saying,
you
know,
well,
what
about
what
about
if
you're
if
your
daughter
gets
raped
by
an
immigrant,
what
are
you
going
to
do
then?
This
was
real
fear
that
that
Trump
was
going
to
protect
us
from
the
rapists.
And

(16:41):
this
was
something
that
was
being
put
out
to.
What
do
you
do? 2918 00:16:44,310 --> 00:00:00,-01 Eric:
How
ironic. 2921 00:16:46,110 --> 00:00:00,-01 Dr. Stout:
Indeed.
I
know.
I'm
sorry.
And
so
what
do
you
do
when
they're
coming
for
your
daughter?
You
look
to
the
strong
man,
right?
So
you
look
for
the
strong
man
who
is
literally
looking
like
a
gorilla,
you
know,
big
and
fat
and
heavy
and
not
going
to
be

(17:01):
pushed
around.
Right.
So
that
that's
who
you're
going
to
who
you're
going
to
look
for.
And
Putin
was
really
pushing
all
of
this,
you
know,
not
he
wasn't
Putin
wasn't
standing
on
the
stage
with
Trump,
but
he
was
certainly
aiding
it
and
helping
it
and
moving
this
whole
thing
along.
And
so
we're
seeing
the
exact
same
thing
happening.
Trump
is
being
used
as
a
way
of
splitting
our
country.
Now.
He's
even
splitting

(17:21):
the
Republican
Party
because
Putin
doesn't
care
about
the
Republicans.
What
he
wants
is
for
nothing
to
happen.
And
by
splitting
the
Republican
Party,
he
can
prevent
aid
going
to
Ukraine.
So
these
are
all
just
little
levers
that
are
put
into
us
and
that
are
then
able
to
be
manipulated.
Once
those
levers
are
in
place,
it's
easy
for
someone
to
take
control
and
it's
easy

(17:42):
for
someone
to
to
to
make
us
do
what
they
want
without
us
even
thinking
about
it.
And
we
will
start
ignoring
the
evidence
of
our
own
senses.
We'll
start
ignoring
science.
We
will
start
saying
that
that
science
wants
to
take
my
guns
away
in
my
religion
and
you'll
become
actually
anti
facts
and
pro

(18:02):
feeling.
And
we
need
to
protect
ourselves
from
all
this
dirt
and
disease. 3184 00:18:06,660 --> 00:00:00,-01 Eric:
Is
this
radicalization?
Is
this
what
they
mean
when
they
mean
are
we
talking
now
about
it
sounds
so
close
to. 3206 00:18:13,470 --> 00:00:00,-01 Dr. Stout:
Well
it's
it's
it's
using
we
we
are
irrational
creatures,
right?
We
have
this
sort
of
facade
of
rationality
that
we
often
use
to

(18:22):
explain
our
irrational
actions.
Right.
So,
you
know,
I
talked
about
dopamine
at
one
point,
how
it
makes
us
want
to
do
things.
And
so,
you
know,
someone
has
an
affair,
right?
They
know
that's
going
to
ruin
their
life,
but
then
they
can
come
up
with
reasons
after
the
fact
of
why
they
did
it.
Right.
So
these
were
these
were
things
that
were
happening

(18:42):
because
of
of
deep
desires
put
there
by
evolution.
Evolution
wants
you
to
go
have
sex
with
as
many
people
as
possible.
Right.
Especially
if
you're
a
man,
because
you're
going
to
have
very
few
costs
as
long
as
you
don't
get
caught,
You
can
you
can
spread
your
seed
far
and
wide
and
you're
you're
you're
putting
yourself
out
there.
So
things
that
are
against
your
own
interests

(19:03):
are
often
going
to
be
promoted
by
evolution,
Right?
Evolution
is
not
a
moral
way
to
think
about
the
world,
right?
So,
you
know,
a
gerbil
when
stressed
will
eat
her
own
babies.
This
is
not
a
moral
activity.
It's
something
that
evolution
has
caused
to
happen
in
certain
situations.
So

(19:23):
it
is
it's
it's
not
a
a
moral
thing
to
go
and
make
lots
of
women
pregnant.
But
evolution
wants
you
to
do
that.
And
it's
always
going
to
be
the
same.
You
know,
women
obviously
have
the
same
kinds
of
incentives.
If
a
woman
can
somehow
get
extra
resources
or

(19:43):
find
a
man
with
extra
better,
you
know,
good
genes,
sneaking
outside
of
marriage
is
going
to
be
an
advantage
to
her.
It
turns
out.
Actually,
we've
measured
this
and
there's
very,
very,
very,
very
little
of
it
that
actually
produces
babies.
While
cheating
is
incredibly
common
at
actually

(20:04):
producing
babies
from
cheating
is
low
and
has
been
low
for
as
as
long
as
we
can
measure
backwards,
which
predates,
you
know,
the
modern
birth
control. 3544 00:20:14,010 --> 00:00:00,-01 Eric:
I
wonder
why? 3548 00:20:16,560 --> 00:00:00,-01 Dr. Stout:
Because
it's
one
thing
to
have
an
affair.
This
could
be
a
social
interaction.
Right.
So
chimpanzees

(20:24):
use
sex
as
one
of
their
various
ways
of
bartering
and
exchange
and
obtaining
benefits.
And
so
this
is
this
is
this
is
part
of
our
general
social
interaction
as
humans.
But
a
woman
having
another
man's
baby
means
that
that
man
has
to
raise
that
baby.
That
is
that
is
a
major
cost
to
him.
And

(20:45):
he's
likely
to
kill
her.
And
many
cultures
that
happens
if
if
a
man
catches
a
woman
cheating
and
she
gets
pregnant,
he's
going
to
be
really,
really
upset.
And
so
it
seems
as
though
both
men
and
women
have
basically
been
able
to
mostly
stop
from
ending
up

(21:05):
having
babies
that
they're
not
their
own.
And
so
they
do
genetic
tests
done
on
parents
and
done
on
offspring
and
found
out
it's
it's
far,
far
below
1%.
Whereas
the
number
of
marriages
that
have
cheating
involved
or,
you
know,
30,
40. 3715 00:21:21,600 --> 00:00:00,-01 Eric:
Percent
higher
than
1%
let
let. 3722 00:21:23,860 --> 00:00:00,-01 Dr. Stout:
Far
less
than
1%.
Yeah.

(21:25):
So
so
the
difference
between
those
two
is
huge.
Anyway,
I
want
to
get
back
on
topic.
It's
that's
an
interesting
thing
to
think
about,
but
I
was
just
trying
to
say
that
we
have
these
levers
in
our
brains
that
don't
always
have
our
best
interests
as
we
would
understand
them
at
heart,
right?
So
that
we
end
up
doing
irrational
things. 3791 00:21:41,070 --> 00:00:00,-01 Eric:
And
these
levers
that
that
are
legitimate
evolutionary,
Yes.

(21:45):
Desires
that
are
not
best
interest
for
us
individually,
right
on
a
population
level.
Right.
Have
benefits. 3818 00:21:54,360 --> 00:00:00,-01 Dr. Stout:
Right.
And
so
these
can
then
be
used
by
marketing 3829 00:00:00,-01 --> 00:21:57,720 . Everyone 3830 00:00:00,-01 --> 00:00:00,-01
knows
that
sex
sells.
You
put
a
model
on
a
car
and
some
guy
is
going
to
buy
that
car.
Even
though
he
doesn't
need
it
because
he's
being
told
what

(22:05):
he
wants
is
the
model.
And
we're
not
very
good
at
the
subconscious
level
at
separating
the
model
from
the
car.
We
we
often
can't
tell
when
messages
are
mixed
like
that,
what
is
what.
And
we
get
confused.
I
mentioned
this
with
dopamine
before.
You
know,
you
give
someone
flowers,
the
red
flowers
give
you
the
dopamine
spike,
you
think
you
like

(22:26):
the
person,
you
go
out
to
dinner.
It
works
especially
well
at
a
at
a
fancy
restaurant
that
you've
never
been
to
before.
You
can
get
the
highest
dopamine
response.
You're
going
to
think
you
like
the
person
an
awful
lot.
If
you're
at
a
restaurant
that
is
really
kind
of
fancy
that
you've
never
been
to
before.
So,
you
know,
we
we
often
will
get
confused
between

(22:46):
these
reward
impulses
that
are
sort
of
programmed
into
our
brain
and
what
we
really
want.
And
this
is
why
it's
so
difficult
to
argue
with
someone.
Once
someone
has
made
up
their
mind,
they've
done
something
irrational
and
they,
after
the
fact
of
it,
use
their
rational
mind
to
explain
it.
You
can't
argue
them
out
of
it
because
it's
built
on
a
foundation
that
has
no
meaning
and

(23:06):
they
have
huge
vested
interest
in
defending
that.
Right. 4072 00:23:09,720 --> 00:00:00,-01 Eric:
You're
saying
this
has
an
evolutionary.
Well,
it's. 4081 00:23:13,530 --> 00:00:00,-01 Dr. Stout:
How
how
we're
built.
The
evolutionary
motivation
is
the
first
layer.
And
we
only
acquired
sort
of
rationality
and
consciousness
very,
very
late
in
the
game.
And
it's
all
built
on
top
of
this.
And,
you
know,
it's
sort
of
put

(23:26):
together,
you
know,
on,
on,
on
the
ability
to
throw
gives
us
language.
Language
gives
us
this
ability
to
kind
of
rationalize. 4145 00:23:34,200 --> 00:00:00,-01 Eric:
We
do
things
within
evolutionary
benefit
that
are
detrimental
to
us,
and
then
we
are
forced
in
order
to
live
with
it,
to
use
our
rationality
to
to
to
figure
out
a

(23:46):
way
through
it.
So
exactly.
Living
with. 4185 00:23:48,480 --> 00:00:00,-01 Dr. Stout:
It.
Yeah,
exactly.
Yeah.
So
very,
very
rarely
are
we
living
rational,
productive
lives
that
we
planned
out
ahead
of
time.
And
then
we
follow
our
plan.
Exactly.
We
tend
to
get
sidetracked
by
all
of
our
desires,
and
then
we
end
up
doing
things
that
we
don't
necessarily
want
to
do.

(24:07):
And
so
we
end
up
in
a
democracy
that
votes
for
rich
people
to
get
richer
and
the
majority
of
us
to
get
poorer.
How
could
this
possibly
happen?
Right?
So
the
same
thing
is
happening
to
us
in
health
wise.
How
did
we
suddenly
all
become
obese?
How
did
we
suddenly
all
have
such
health
difficulties
even
while
our
health
system
is
improving,

(24:27):
our
longevity
is
now
decreasing
and
is
decreasing
even
relative
to
other
countries.
So
the
rest
of
Europe,
you
know,
Europe
as
a
whole
has
been
improving
its
life
expectancy,
whereas
the
US
is
is
is
flattening.
And
tellingly,
it's
the
worst
outcomes

(24:47):
are
happening
amongst
minorities,
amongst
particularly
black
people,
where
their
life
spans
are
going
down
faster
and
so
there
is
actually
a
connection
between
these
things
and
racism
as
well.
And
between
the
manipulation
we
are
happening,
how
is
it
that
we
manipulate
ourselves
into
a
country
where
we're
spending
more
and
more
on

(25:07):
health
care
and
getting
a
worse
and
worse
outcome?
And,
you
know,
clearly
the
answer
is
someone
is
making
a
lot
of
money
off
of
this.
And
one
is
the
the
the
health
care
industry.
Right.
The
insurance
companies
don't
do
anything
for
us.
And
they're
taking
about
a
third
of
the
money.
You
know,
the
doctors
get
paid
and
we
get
health
care
insurance.
It's
just
a
middleman.

(25:28):
And
we've
just
installed
them
in
there
and
they're
there
forever.
And
this
is
why
we
don't
have,
you
know,
universal
health
care.
But
what
do
the
insurance
companies
do?
They
use
lobbying
to
work
with
people
who
really,
really
don't
want
black
people
to
get
health
care.
And
there's
actual
evidence
of
this.
And
so

(25:48):
people
vote
against
this
and
they
might
not
know
it
consciously.
They
might
this
might
not
be
a
I
don't
want
to
do
this
racist
thing
that
we
are,
as
I
said,
unconscious
people.
But
there
is
good
evidence
of
strong
correlations
between
the
sort
of
racist
dog
whistle
thoughts
and
voting
against
health
care.
There
is
a
strong
correlation.

(26:09):
I
with
our
own
health,
we
have
similar
kinds
of
buttons,
right?
So
we
are
hungry
when
we
haven't
eaten
for
obvious
reasons.
But
this
is
stronger
in
us
as
a
species
than
some
other
species
out
there
because
we

(26:29):
need
fat.
We
absolutely
require
fat
to
live.
Every
moment
our
brain
takes
close
to
20%
of
our
total
calories.
Our
brain
can't
live
more
than,
you
know,
seconds
without
a
constant
supply
of
glucose.
We
are
like
a
rocket
ship
with
a
throttle
wide
open
all
the
time.
And

(26:49):
so
we
are
evolved
to
store
as
much
fat
as
possible
all
the
time.
And
this
is
a
unconscious
button
that
we
don't
know
how
to
push,
right?
Because
this
is
something
that
is
from
the
beginning.
This
isn't
even
from
the
beginning
of
consciousness.
This
predates
brains,
right?

(27:09):
So
we
start
we're
the
poor
relations
out
on
the
Serengeti.
We're
always
trying
to
save
calories
by
being
the
most
efficient
ones.
This
is
how
we
develop
bipedalism,
right
to
walk
from
one
place
to
the
next
with
as
low
calories
as
possible.
Then
we
switch
to
brains.
And
this
is
when
we
get
the
tools.
What
are
we
getting?
We're
getting
fatty
marrow

(27:29):
out
of
these
out
of
these
bones.
We're
eating
almost
pure
fat
as
as
our
main
source.
The
new
thing
that
we
developed
when
we
got
the
big
brains
that
required
the
new
food,
the
new
thing
we
developed
that
new
food
was
was
probably
bone
marrow
muscle
tissue
meat
doesn't
supply
as
much.
Bones
are
really
well
protected
and
hard
to
get
into.
And
if

(27:49):
you're
the
thing
with
a
rock,
you're
the
one
that
can
get
into
that
bone
when
no
one
else
can.
So
this
was
a
untapped
resource
that
we
were
able
to
get
that
enabled
our
brains
to
get
bigger.
But
it
meant
that
we
had
to
have
a
constant
source
of
calories
when
we
might
not
have
constant
access
to
marrow.
Right.
You're
going
to
find
marrow
occasionally

(28:10):
and
you
can
eat
as
much
as
you
possibly
can,
but
then
you
need
to
store
it.
So
we're
designed
to
not
burn
those
calories,
move
around
as
as
as
as
efficiently
as
possible.
And
we're
designed
to
store
as
much
of
it
as
possible
as
fat. 4969 00:28:24,540 --> 00:00:00,-01 Eric:
So
even
our
predecessors
running
around
the
Serengeti
might
have
had
little
bellies. 4983 00:28:29,730 --> 00:00:00,-01 Dr. Stout:
It's
possible

(28:30):
they
certainly
would
have
been
storing
as
much
as
possible.
And
we
were
probably
attracted
to
the
women
who
had
a
little
bit
of
fat
on
their
bodies
because
they
weren't
going
to
be
able
to
produce
babies
if
they
didn't
have
fat.
You
know,
we
know
this
from
marathon
runners.
They're
no
longer
fertile.
Right?
Stop
marathon.
They
need
fertile
again.
Right
this
you
can
actually
control
your
own
fertility
that
way.

(28:50):
So
we're
very,
very
closely
associated
with
high
body
fats.
The
only
things
that
are
like
close
to
us
are
things
like
marine
mammals.
They
surpass
us,
right?
Because
blubber,
all
of
that.
But
we
have
for
a
land
mammal,
the
highest
percentage
of
fat
in
our
milk
of
really
any
animals
out
there,
because
we
need
to
build
that
giant

(29:11):
brain.
We
need
to
build
fat
babies.
I
mean,
you've
seen
babies,
They
are
fat
beyond
belief.
They
have
dimples
on
dimples.
They
have
folds
between
their
wrist
and
elbow.
Right.
How
is
that
even
possible?
There's
no
joint
there.
And
so
what
we're
doing
is
we're
just
packing
them
with
fat.
They're
like
little
baby
seals.
And
so,
you
know,
our
milk
is
something
along
the
lines
of,
you
know,

(29:31):
25%
to
18%
fat
something.
And
in
that
range,
you
know,
a
baby
seal
might
be
50%.
That's
different
creature.
But
everything
else
is
down
around,
you
know,
five
or
10%.
We
have
much
more
fat
in
our
milk.
And
it's
specifically
to
make
fat
babies
so
that
we
then
build
big
brains
and
we
end
up
with
AI

(29:51):
adults
that
can
provide
us
brains
with
calories.
So
this
is
something
that
is
very,
very
deep
in
our
evolutionary
history
and
is
is
absolutely
the
way
we
go
and
the
way
it's
the
details
of
the
system
work
is
the
the
hormone
that
makes

(30:11):
you
no
longer
hungry
is
made
by
fat.
And
so
the
more
fat
you're
storing,
the
more
comfortable
you're
feeling.
As
soon
as
you're
no
longer
storing
fat,
the
hormone
leptin
that
tells
us
we
are
satiated
goes

(30:32):
away.
Right?
So
any
time
you're
not
storing
fat,
you're
going
to
start
feeling
hungry.
And
then
the
other
side
of
it
is
ghrelin.
So
ghrelin
is
the
one
that
when
your
stomach
runs
out
of
food,
right,
when
there's
no
food
in
your
stomach,
ghrelin
is
going
to
signal
hunger
so
you
won't
feel
full

(30:52):
and
done
until
you've
filled
up
your
stomach.
Right.
So
when
you
fill
up
your
stomach,
the
ghrelin
stops
being
release.
So
that
releases
the
hunger
thing.
But
it's
separate
from
the
one
that
tells
you
you've
had
enough
so
you
won't
really
feel
like
you've
had
enough.
And
still
you
start
filling
up
all
that
fat
and
making
new
fat
cells.
That's
when
the
fat
cells

(31:13):
will
start
producing
leptin
and
telling
you.
So
there's
actually
a
delay
between
stopping
the
hunger
in
terms
of
you've
stopped
the
thing
that
produces
hunger,
ghrelin
and
stopping
the
hunger
and
the
thing
that
tells
you
to
stop
being
hunger
hungry
leptin.
There's
a
delay
between
these
two
things. 5506 00:31:28,140 --> 00:00:00,-01 Eric:
This
is
why
we
have
a
problem
with
portion
control. 5517 00:31:30,330 --> 00:00:00,-01 Dr. Stout:
It's
a
real
problem
with
portion
control.
And
it's
why

(31:33):
why?
One
of
the
easiest
things
to
tell
someone,
which
is
true
but
hardest
to
go
along
with,
is
just
eat
when
you're
hungry.
Okay?
If
you
just
eat
when
you're
hungry
from
ghrelin.
Okay?
The
one
that's
actually
telling
you
to
be
hungry,
that
will
actually
lead
to
some
decent
outcomes.
You'll
only
eat
when
your
stomach
has

(31:53):
fully
emptied.
Right?
You'll
be.
That's
when
ghrelin
will
really
start
telling
you
to
to
start
eating.
And
this
is
this
is
really
in
general,
good
for
you.
This
will
this
will
aids
in
memory.
It
aids
in
all
sorts
of
things
about
your
body.
However,
there
are
some
downsides
to
it.
Everything
is
connected
with
our
body.
If
your
ghrelin
levels

(32:13):
are
really
high,
it's
going
to
tell
you
to
stop
making
muscles.
When
your
ghrelin
goes
high,
you
actually
release
human
growth
hormone.
And
so
you
can
you
can
actually
sort
of
biohacking
yourself
by
thinking
about
when
are
you
going
to
be
hungry,
when
are
you
exercising,
when
do
you
want

(32:33):
to
produce
hormone
human
growth
hormone
and
start
building
muscles?
There's
ways
to
actually
think
about
the
relationship
between
the
timing
of
food
and
your
own
ability
to
to
get
stronger.
But
that's
that's
a
separate
issue.
Yeah.
I
want
to
talk
a
bit
about
like,
you
know,
just
eat
when
you're
hungry
would

(32:53):
mean
that
you
only
ate
when
your
stomach
was
empty.
You
would
actually
have
decent
portion
control.
But
that's
not
what
happens.
We
eat
until
we
are
full
and
then
we
eat
a
little
bit
more.
And
the
reason
we
do
this
is
because
we
haven't
started
actually
making
it
into
fat
yet.
So
the
first
thing
that
happens
is
our
blood
sugar
goes
up,
the
blood
sugar

(33:13):
goes
up
and
immediately
we
get
insulin.
Insulin
is
going
to
try
and
control
our
blood
sugar.
Where
is
that
blood
sugar
going
to
go?
It's
going
to
go
into
fat.
So
insulin
is
the
hormone
that
actually
makes
fat
from
sugar.
So
as
the
sugar
goes
up,
it
tells
the
body
to
make
fat.
And
this
is
when
finally
the
leptin
gets

(33:33):
released.
So
there's
a
secondary
and
then
a
tertiary
effect. 5896 00:33:37,200 --> 00:00:00,-01 Eric:
LONG
Does
this
actually
take
like
physically. 5904 00:33:40,020 --> 00:00:00,-01 Dr. Stout:
Half
an
hour
by
an
hour?
So
the
longer
your
meal
takes,
people
tell
you
tell
you
to
wait
a
little
bit
after
the
meal,
right?
You
eat
a
little
bit,
wait,
just
wait
to
see
if
you're
still
hungry
in
a
half
an
hour.
That's
what
we're
talking
about,
Right.
So
increasing
levels

(33:53):
of
insulin
will
also
make
you
feel
hungrier,
right?
Sorry.
Will
also
make
you
feel
satiated.
Yeah.
So
as
the
insulin
is
going
up.
But
what
do
we
know
about
insulin?
Insulin
causes
the
blood
sugar
to
drop.
When
the
blood
sugar
drops,
we're
going
to
then
start
feeling
hungrier

(34:14):
again.
Right.
So
it's
very
difficult
to
get
the
right
amount
of
food.
Our
whole
system
is
based
on
overeating
and
then
eating
again
as
soon
as
we
possibly
can.
And
it's
based
on
seeking
out
as
much
fat
and
sugar
as
we
can
possibly
get. 6055 00:34:32,810 --> 00:00:00,-01 Eric:
This
is
vicious. 6059 00:34:34,350 --> 00:00:00,-01 Dr. Stout:

(34:34):
It
is
absolutely
vicious.
What
evolution
is
built
into
us
and
this
is
connected
to
how
we
feel.
So
when
we
get
the
sugar
in
our
body,
when
we
when
we
when
we
start
producing
insulin,
these
things
are
related
to
dopamine
and
serotonin.
So
low
serotonin
levels
are
related
to
being
depressed.

(34:54):
What
do
we
do
when
we're
depressed?
We
start
depression
eating.
We
tend
to
go
for
sugary
foods,
which
are
going
to
relate
to
our
insulin
levels,
which
are
going
to
relate
to
our
serotonin.
So
our
bodies
are
constantly
manipulating
us.
And
so
now
we're
dealing
with
things
that
involve
the
world
outside
us,
right?
So
you
could
be
depressed
because
there's
things
happening
outside
the
world.
Hamas
touch,

(35:14):
Hamas
attacks
Israel.
And
you
sit
down
with
a
pint
of
Haagen-Dazs
and
weep,
right?
Because
there's
nothing
else
you
can
do.
And
so
these
are
these
are
buttons
that
we
have
deeply
in
us
that
can
then
be
manipulated
from
outside.
And
these
are
things
that
are
able
to
be
understood
by
the
outside
world.
Same
thing

(35:35):
with
dopamine.
So
when
you
get
sugar,
you're
rewarded
with
dopamine.
If
you
are
a
person
who
is
hyperactive,
which
we
mentioned
last
time,
you
have
low
dopamine.
So
one
thing
you
might
seek
is
sugary
snacks.
I
was
talking
to
someone
who
is
sort
of
the
philosopher
king
of
a
prison
and
he
said
that
one
of
the
things
is
with
people
who
have
ADHD,

(35:55):
who
had
drug
problems.
Right,
Because
ADHD
will
often
drive
you
towards
seeking
out
dopamine,
providing
drugs
when
they
get
them
off
the
drugs.
The
next
thing
is
they're
overeating
and
you
have
an
obesity
problem
in
the
prisons
and
it's
directly
related
to
the
dopamine
interaction.
So
what
do
you
do

(36:15):
when
you
need
a
reward?
You
eat
some
food,
particularly
sugary
foods,
the
ones
that
give
you
the
fastest
reward,
they're
going
to
give
you
the
greatest
dopamine.
And
so
the
marketers
have
figured
this
out
just
like
we
have
a
bunch
of
flowers
and
we
give
them
to
someone
in
their
bright
red
and
they
make
us
like
the
person.
We
put
the
packages
for
the
candy
bars
and
bright
red
shiny
things
with
gold
letter

(36:35):
gold
lettering
and
any
kind
of
flashy
lights
you
put
them
with
the
impulse
buys,
right?
You
put
them
at
the
next
to
the
checkout
counter.
Where
are
you
going
to
have
the
most
impulse
buy?
You've
been
looking
at
food
all
day.
You're
feeling
kind
of
hungry
and
boom,
there
you
see
the
candy
bar
is
right
at
the
checkout.
And
so
you
buy
one.
Maybe.
Maybe
you
want
someone
to
be
happy
with
you.
You
buy
it
for
them
as
you're
coming
home.

(36:55):
Right.
So
these
impulse
buys
are
connected
with
our
ideas
of
happiness,
with
our
ideas
of
of
bringing
something
back
for
someone
there.
You
know
what?
What's
the
other
thing
we
bring
in?
In
addition
to
flowers?
If
you
want
someone
to
like
a
box
of
chocolates.
Right.
So
these
these
are
these
are
these
are
deeply
embedded
things
that
we
use
on
each
other
all
the
time.
Right?
We
know
how
to
manipulate
each

(37:15):
other,
but
the
food
companies
really
know
how
to
manipulate
us.
Right?
So
just
like,
say,
cigarette
companies
might
manipulate
nicotine
because
nicotine
is
providing
dopamine
and
they
can
manipulate
our
addictions
by
how
much
nicotine
they
supply.
And
each
cigarette
food
companies
are
manipulating
are
sugar
intake,
and
they
know

(37:36):
exactly
what
the
insulin
profile
looks
from
a
particular
kind
of
sugar.
So
fructose
is
going
to
be
different
from
glucose.
It's
going
to
have
a
different
flavor
profile.
So
the
the
sucrose
and
fructose
both
give
us
a
sharper
sweetness
spike,
which
gives
us
a
better
dopamine
reaction.

(37:56):
So
that
initial
reward
is
higher
from
the
fructose.
So
the
high
fructose
corn
syrup
in
all
of
our
fizzy
beverages
these
days.
So
all
the
sodas
are
closely
related
to
this
huge
rise.
Epidemic
in
obesity
in
the
United
States
is
related
to
the
manipulated
portion
of
these
sugars
and
the
specific

(38:17):
use
of
ones
that
are
going
to
be
extra
sweet.
It's
interesting.
It
should
have
been
that
sodas
were
great
for
us.
Fructose
is
roughly
half
the
calories
of
sucrose
for
the
same
sweetness.
Right.
This
is
white
way,
way,
honey
is
grape.
Honey
has
twice
the
sweetness
for
the
same
number
of
calories.
The

(38:37):
the
sodas
should
have
been
great
for
us,
but
it
turns
out
that
they
make
us
extra
addicted
to
that.
That
sugar
hit
to
the
dopamine.
And
what
happens
when
you
have
fructose
in
your
in
your
system
is
you
can't
process
the
glucose.
You
can't
process
the
fructose
until
the
glucose
is
gone.
So
let's
say
you
have
a
meal,

(38:58):
some
of
it
gets
digested
into
glucose.
That
fructose
is
just
going
to
keep
circulating
around
the
body.
The
only
thing
that
can
be
done
with
it
is
to
turn
it
into
fat.
And
so
we
turn
it
directly
into
fat.
And
so
the
insulin
is
going
to
be
trying
to
get
rid
of
this.
Your
your
liver
is
going
to
be
trying
to
get
rid
of
it.
Some
of
it
will
go
to
your
liver.
You
end
up
with
fatty
liver
disease
because
the

(39:18):
the
sugars
are
being
stored
as
fat
in
your
liver.
When
your
liver
starts
storing
fat,
it's
not
a
liver
anymore.
It's
fat.
Right.
So
it
can't
do
the
processing.
So
the
more
fatty
liver
disease
you
have
because
your
liver
has
been
overwhelmed
by
the
sugar
you're
eating,
the
worse
the
problem
is
going
to
get
insulin
specifically

(39:38):
is
going
to
target
your
gut,
right.
So
fat
can
be
stored
anywhere
in
your
body.
But
there's
a
difference
between
the
stuff
that's
underneath
your
skin,
the
subcutaneous
fat
and
the
fat
that's
around
your
organs
and
your
gut.
So
the
gut
fat,
the
visceral
fat,
visceral
fat
responds
to
hormones
much
more
quickly.
So
all
of

(39:58):
this
sugar
related
to
the
the
dopamine
drive
directly
goes
to
our
stomachs.
So
this
is
absolutely
something
that
the
the
food
companies
are
aware
of
and
they're
using
to
manipulate
us.
You
combine
that
with
our
sort
of
a
general

(40:19):
low
level
of
anti-science
thinking,
and
we
become
a
very
easily
manipulated,
able
and
very
confused
people
who
are
sitting
at
home
sad
drinking
soda
and
eating
snacks.
So
this
is
this
is
what
is
done
to
us.
And
it
is
it
is
not
an
accident
right.
There
are
a
lot
of
people

(40:39):
who
are
benefiting
from
this
situation
by
having
a
stressed
out
stress
lowers
dopamine,
makes
us
eat
more
stress
is
related
to
hierarchy.
The
lower
you
are
in
the
hierarchy,
the
more
stress
you
feel,
the
more
likely
you
are
to
eat
more.
All
of
these
things
are
absolutely
being
used.
Now,
I'm
not
saying
that
there's
the
equivalent
of
a
Putin
arranging

(40:59):
this
all
for
us,
right?
There
are
individuals
who
are
benefiting
from
it,
you
know,
so
the
marketing
director
of
a
company
is
an
ad
director
here,
but
these
these
are
levers
that
are
built
into
us
now,
You
know,
an
alien
being
like
Putin
could
combine
and
figure
out
ways
to
manipulate
us
on
a
whole
scale.
But
that's
I
do
not
think
you
have
an
inkling. 7292 00:41:17,790 --> 00:00:00,-01 Eric:
About
the
levers
you
are
talking
the

(41:20):
the
physiological
levers
that
you
that
you
were
talking
about
and
then
you
were
talking
about
Putin.
It
makes
me
think
about
Cambridge
Analytica. 7324 00:41:26,700 --> 00:00:00,-01 Dr. Stout:
Yeah,
absolutely.
Yeah.
So,
so
so
with
AI,
you
can
identify
particular
triggers
down
to
individual
people
and
know
exactly
which
meme
to
send
to
someone.
And
this
is
what
they're
trying
to
figure
out.
I
don't
think
we're
actually
there

(41:40):
yet,
but
it's
like. 7370 00:41:41,190 --> 00:00:00,-01 Eric:
Analytica
with
A.I.. 7374 00:41:42,840 --> 00:00:00,-01 Dr. Stout:
Yeah.
So
it's
like
going
to
be
tomorrow
that
you
get
a
candy
bar
ad
sent
to
you
when
the
A.I.
knows
you're
hungry,
right?
You
know,
So
it's
going
to
it's
going
to
be
even
worse.
And
they
absolutely
know
how
to
manipulate
you.
And
now
they're
going
to
know
you.
Particularly,

(42:00):
you
know,
we've
we've
had
targeted
ads
for
a
while,
but
the
targets
have
never
been
particularly
good. 7446 00:42:05,620 --> 00:00:00,-01 Eric:
I
don't
know
that
I'm
right
now.
I
mean,
I
used
to
be
worried
about
about
the
marketing
potential
of
these
things.
Now
I'm
much
more
about
the
political,
the
political
marketing. 7479 00:42:13,320 --> 00:00:00,-01 Dr. Stout:
It's
all
the
same
thing,
essentially.
But
yes,
So
anyway,
what
I
wanted
to
get
to
was
why
we
should
have
compassion

(42:20):
for
each
other. 7505 00:42:21,390 --> 00:00:00,-01 Eric:
That
you
did
say
that. 7511 00:42:23,220 --> 00:00:00,-01 Dr. Stout:
And
I
did
say
that
in
the
beginning.
Yeah.
So
when
we
are
being
manipulated
like
this,
it
is
not
our
conscious
mind
making
these
decisions.
These
are
our
unconscious
feelings
that
are
causing
us
to
do
these
things.
And
so
there's
this
huge
move
against

(42:40):
fat
shaming.
And
I
am
all
for
it.
You
know,
we
need
to
stop
shaming
each
other
for
how
they
look,
for
how
we
look
when
we've
been
programmed
this
way.
And
the
society
is
profiting
from
our
programming.
And
so
it
just
accelerates
all
the
things
that
are
happening
to. 7609 00:42:58,350 --> 00:00:00,-01 Eric:
Urging. 7611 00:42:59,190 --> 00:00:00,-01 Dr. Stout:
And
encouraging
our
programming.

(43:00):
It
benefits
from
it.
Exactly.
So
so
all
all
the
powers
that
be
benefit
from
us
making
poor
decisions
for
ourselves.
And
then
we
shame
each
other
because
of
our
bad
decisions. 7648 00:43:12,810 --> 00:00:00,-01 Eric:
So
are
we
going
to
be
able
to
talk
about
how
we
work
against
this
deep?
Yeah.
Yeah. 7667 00:43:18,240 --> 00:00:00,-01 Dr. Stout:
I
do.
I
do
want
to
talk
about
that

(43:21):
a
little
bit.
I'm
definitely
trying
to
head
that
direction,
but
I
wanted
to
draw
the
parallel
between
the
essentially
the
ideas
of,
of,
of
not
fat
shaming
people
connected
directly
to
our
politics
as
well,
that
we
really
need
to
not
hate
each
other.
That
when
you
see
someone
who
has
been
programmed
to
be
racist,
that
is
bad
and
they
need

(43:41):
to
deal
with
that.
But
one
you're
going
to
be
able
to
change
them,
certainly
not
easily.
Maybe
as
a
society
you
can
slowly
build
that
to
be,
you
know,
not
socially
acceptable
and
people
can
slowly
learn
to
not
be
racist,
but
you're
not
going
be
able
to
argue
someone
out
of
it.
And
too,
it's
not
entirely
their
fault.
They've
made
some
decisions
and
I
definitely

(44:01):
feel
angry.
And
then
I
have
to
realize
that
anger
is
also
a
button
that's
been
pushed
in
me,
right?
So
when
I
see
this
happening,
my
own
buttons
are
being
pushed.
So,
you
know,
this
is
this
is
this
is
something
that
we
have
to
acknowledge
that
we
really
can't
change
each
other.
We
can
only
change
ourselves
and
that
this
is
a
very
deep
truth
and
that
we
barely
have
the
capacity

(44:22):
to
change
ourselves,
that
we
need
to
become
managers
of
our
own
brains.
We
have
to
take
responsibility
for
our
decisions
and
we
are
going
to
fail
over
and
over
again.
And
we
need
to
have
compassion
for
others,
but
also
ourselves.
We
need
to
realize
that
when
you
make
these
bad
decisions
because
of
the
dopamine,

(44:42):
because
the
serotonin,
because
the
sugar
and
because
of
the
flashing
lights
that
the
companies
put
in
front
of
your
eyes,
it's
not
entirely
your
fault.
Right.
And
so
if
you
think
it's
your
fault,
what
are
you
going
to
do?
You're
going
to
sit
at
home
with
a
pint
of
Haagen-Dazs
again,
right?
So
it
just
makes
things
worse
and
plays
into
their
hands
again.
You
have
to
become
aware
of
your
own
decisions

(45:02):
and
then
you
have
to
be
compassionate
for
yourself
when
you
end
up
still
making
bad
decisions.
Because
this
is
how
we're
program.
I'm
not
saying
we
don't
have
free
will.
We
absolutely
do.
We
need
to
be
responsible
for
our
own
actions,
but
those
actions
are
not
going
to
go
the
way
we
want
them
to.
Our
conscious
minds
are
not
in
control.
We
have
buttons
all
over
us
being
pushed
constantly.

(45:22):
Now,
I
don't
think
we
should
just
let
go
of
all
morality
and
say
I
have
no
control
over
my
life.
I
should
just
go
have
sex
with
who
I
want
to
and
eat
anything
I
want
to
all
the
time,
every
day.
That's
not
going
to
work
out
for
you.
But
while
taking
responsibility
for
our
actions
we
have
to
realize
our
own
compassion.
I
was
looking
at
something
in
the
Times
the
other
day
where
they

(45:42):
were
talking
about
how
nutrition
classes
might
be
a
bad
idea
in
middle
school.
I
think
this
is
a
terrible
right.
We
need
to
understand
our
own
nutrition.
We
need
to
understand
understand
what?
What
makes
us
healthy.
So
why
could
it
possibly
be
bad?
Their
argument
is
it
can
lead
to
eating

(46:03):
disorders.
And
again,
this
is
something
that
evolution
has
programmed
into
us.
Eating
disorders
are
our
way
of
living,
fasting
and
bingeing
is
how
we
lived
as
hunter
gatherers.
We
are
programmed
to
feel
good
when
that
happens.
This
is
part
of
our
evolutionary
history.
Eating
disorders

(46:23):
are
absolutely
something
we
are
susceptible
to
and
it
is
something
we
have
been
basically
directed
to
have
happen,
right?
So
our
depression,
our
need
for
rewards,
these
are
related
to
our
food
intake,
our
desires
to
not
listen
to
reason
is
directly

(46:43):
related
to
our
food
intake
and
the
way
desire
itself
works.
So
when
when
someone
starts
connecting,
say,
body
shaming
on,
on,
on,
you
know,
I
one
of
the
social
media,
the
the
body
shaming
is
going
to
start
triggering

(47:03):
very
directly
eating
disorders
that
are
deep,
deep
in
our
subconscious
and
this
isn't
something
that
makes
means
you're
crazy.
You're
a
normal
person.
If
you
have
a
weird
relationship
to
food,
right.
Again,
you
have
to
have
compassion
for
yourself
and
others
when
you
see
them
having
these
things.
And
there's
many
different
weird
relationships
we
can
have,
right?
So
they're

(47:24):
straight
out,
you
know,
anorexia,
right?
You
just
stop
eating
and
that's
going
to
make
you
feel
good.
It's
going
to
make
you
feel
like
you've
taken
control
of
your
life.
You're
going
to
feel
powerful.
There's
a
ton
of
rewards
for
this
thing
because
finally
you've
had
some
willpower.
You're
like
the
smoker
who
just
gave
up
cigarettes
only
you
gave
up
food,
right?
So
that's
a
problem,
right?

(47:44):
So
there
is
there
is
there's
there's
rewards
for
these
things.
Bulimia,
same
idea.
Now.
Now,
I
can
get
as
much
feeling
good
food
as
I
can
possibly
have
and
it
won't
have
any
effect
is
I
can
just
go
throw
it
all
up.
Right
so
all
of
these
these
these
behaviors
are
absolutely
reinforced
by
by
who
we
are
with
in
an
evolutionary

(48:04):
lineage.
There's
an
interesting
one
that
we
don't
often
talk
about,
but
is
also
related
to
this,
which
is
orthorexia
the
idea
of
having
an
orthodox
food
approach
to
life.
And
this
can
be
both
healthy
and
unhealthy.
So
the
latest
one
that
people
had,
you
know,
not
latest
one,
the
one
that
people

(48:24):
had
for
a
long
time
was
staying
away
from
wheat
gluten.
Right.
So
a
very
small
number
of
people
actually
have
problems
with
wheat
gluten.
A
lot
of
people
were
trying
to
avoid
wheat
gluten
by
having
a
strict
rule
in
your
life,
you're
actually
able
to
control
your
calorie
intake.
It
will
actually
improve
your
health
outlook.
I
suspect

(48:44):
it'll
change
it
for
a
whole
bunch
of
reasons.
Gluten
is
often
associated
with,
you
know,
simple
starches
like
wheat
and
many
other
simple
starches
that
we
might
have
in
our
diet.
By
avoiding
it,
we
can
avoid
processed
foods.
We
can
avoid
this
whole
manipulation
that
the
companies
are
doing
to
us.
It's
not
the
gluten
that's
making
us
healthy
or
unhealthy.
It's
everything
we're
doing
with

(49:04):
our
food.
And
by
avoiding
one
aspect
of
it,
that's
one
way
people
can
do
it.
I
think
it
would
be
more
rational
to
try
and
avoid
simple
sugars,
avoid
the
candy
bars,
that
kind
of
thing.
But
anything
you
do
that
is
going
to
actually
get
you
some
control
in
your
life
is
actually
going
to
be
helpful.
Keeping
wheat
flour
out
of
your
stomach

(49:25):
is
going
to
make
you
also
feel
less
bloated.
Why
would
this
be
part
of
that
Is
is
your
own
intestinal
flora
when
you
have
a
whole
bunch
of
sugars
in
your
stomach,
the
bacteria
go
crazy.
They
start
producing
gases.
They
they
your
stomach
is
going
to
be
roiling.
What
your

(49:45):
stomach
wants
is
fiber.
Your
stomach
wants
to
be
sitting
and
eating
fiber
and
not
getting
processed
sugars
and
starches,
and
it
wants
to
be
doing
some
work.
And
if
it
doesn't
do
these
things,
you're
going
to
start
feeling
unwell.
So
there
is
there
is
many
relationships
between
various
kinds
of
orthorexia
and
actually
healthy
lifestyles.

(50:06):
But
again,
they're
not
they're
not
really
logically,
scientifically
thought
out.
They
do
tend
to
be
sort
of
pushing
our
buttons
that
we're
where
we
want
to
take
control
of
our
lives.
Again,
many
of
these
things
are
related
to
religion.
I
want
to
have
a
sort
of
topic
on
this
itself.
Many
religions
have
fasting,
have
food
rules,
things
that
you
can't
eat.

(50:26):
These
are
all
things
that
are
actually
beneficial
for
you,
not
because
that
food
itself,
certainly
in
this
day
and
age,
might
itself
be
poison,
but
because
just
having
rules
is
good
for
you.
So,
you
know,
this
is
something
you
can
do
for
yourself.
You
can
come
up
with
things
you
do.
So,
you
know,
for
example,
I
try
not
to
eat
until
certain
times
of
day,
a
couple

(50:46):
of
times
a
week. 9039 00:50:46,920 --> 00:00:00,-01 Eric:
See,
I
thought
you
were.
You
were
because
you've
been
inching
towards
this.
You've
been
inching
towards
intermediate
into
intermittent
fasting. 9061 00:50:53,790 --> 00:00:00,-01 Dr. Stout:
Yeah,
that's
one
possible
solution.
I
want
to
have
a
whole
show
on
it.
But,
you
know,
these,
these,
these
are
things
you
can
do
where
you
can
take
control.
I
love
it
because
I
just
say
I'm
not
eating
today
or,
you
know,
at
least
until
like
5:00
or
3:00

(51:06):
or
something,
you
know,
5:00.
I
know
that
gets
kind
of
late
to
two
is
sort
of
normal,
but
I've
been
pushing
it
to
five
and
six.
And,
you
know,
these
these
are
things
where
I
can
take
control
of
my
life.
I'm
I'm
temporarily
anorexic,
right?
But
then
I
get
to
eating
again.
So
it's
not
an
eating
disorder.
It's
more
of
a
form
of
orthorexia.

(51:27):
Right?
It's
an
eating
control,
maybe
a
little
bit
obsessive
eating
control.
Not
eating
is
not
necessarily
good
for
you,
but
it
turns
out
to
have
a
lot
of
benefits,
which
I
would
like
to,
you
know,
talk
about
at
a
later
date.
All
of
these
things
are
interrelated,
like
leptin
interferes
with
cartilage
production.

(51:47):
Okay.
So
the
less
hungry
you
are
because
leptin
has
been
produced
by
your
fat
cells,
the
worse
your
knees
will
end
up
being.
So
just
like
ghrelin
is
associated
with
human
growth
hormone,
right?
When
you're
when
you're
eating
is
when
you
want
to
build
muscles.
Right.
Being,
being,
being,
being
being
hungry.

(52:07):
Ghrelin
actually
inhibits
human
growth
hormone.
Right?
So
if
you're
hungry,
you
don't
want
to
build
muscles,
You
eat
food.
You
build
muscles
right?
If
you
have
a
long
term
ghrelin
deficiency,
right,
you
never
eat,
your
muscles
will
start
wasting
away.
We
are
not
great
that
way.
Other
animals
don't
do
that
right.
So
things,
some
things
can
hibernate

(52:28):
and
just
eat
their
own
fat
and
they
just
come
out
skinny
with
all
their
muscles.
We
we
can't
do
that.
We
stop
eating
for
too
long.
We
will
start
eating
our
own
muscles
and
eventually
we'll
eat
our
heart.
And
that's
not
good,
right?
So
if
you
if
you
go
without
food
for
a
long
time,
that's. 9407 00:52:41,910 --> 00:00:00,-01 Eric:
How
you
die
of
starvation. 9413 00:52:42,960 --> 00:00:00,-01 Dr. Stout:
Yeah.
Eventually
you,
you
eat
yourself
and
reason
is,
is
because
our,
our,
our,
our,

(52:48):
the,
the
lack
of
ghrelin
is
not
specific
enough,
right?
It
should
just
tell
us
to
eat
the
eat
the
fat,
but
it
doesn't
work
like
that.
And
so
we're
not
we're
not
perfectly
designed
to
be
long
term
fasters,
but
we
actually
have
a
lot
of
benefits
from
the
short
term
fasting,
right?
So
this
was
probably
the
lifestyle
we
lived,
where
we
were
looking
for
food,
running
around,

(53:08):
using
calories,
trying
to
get
to
places
as
quickly
as
possible
where
we
could
get
that
food
but
for
long
periods
of
time,
not
having
food.
And
then
when
we
found
the
food,
it
would
be
a
big
pile
of
food.
It
was
a
mammoth.
It
was
an
entire
like
grove
of
nuts.
Right.
And
we
would
eat
all
those
fatty
nuts
and
all
that
fatty
mammoth
for
as
long
as
we
possibly
could.
We
would
lie

(53:28):
there
being
fat
and
as
long
as
we
were,
you
know,
full
of
food,
we
would
not
need
to
exercise,
We
would
take
a
break
and
we
would
have
a
really
relaxed
nice
day
because
now
we
were
finally,
you
know,
not
hungry.
And
then
we
would
get
up
and
do
it
again.
And
so
this
was
our
lifestyle
bingeing
and
fasting
and
bingeing
and
fasting
and
then
periodically
eating
high
fiber
snacks

(53:49):
in
between.
You're
feeling
really
hungry
here.
Eat
a
pile
of
semi
edible
leaves.
You
know,
I
cut
these
off
the
cassava
bush
and
now
we
can
chew
them,
you
know,
they'll
fill
your
stomach
up,
which
will
lower
your
ghrelin.
Right.
But
you're
not
going
to
get
a
lot
of
calories
out
of
them. 9704 00:54:05,130 --> 00:00:00,-01 Eric:
So
but
you
will
get
fiber. 9711 00:54:06,750 --> 00:00:00,-01 Dr. Stout:
You
will
get
fiber,
and
you'll
just

(54:09):
do
neat,
right?
And
your
stomach
will
feel
full
and
the
stretch
receptors
will
lower
the
amount
of
ghrelin
you're
experiencing.
And
so
you'll
feel
less
hungry.
And
so
the
lifestyle
we
had
was,
you
know,
leaves
in
between
binging.
And
so,
you
know,
people
talk
about
a
paleo
diet.
They
think
it's
only
meat.
Tha
not
what
it
should

(54:29):
be.
It
should
be
much,
much
higher.
Percentage
of
plants
with
occasional
meat
binges
is
probably
how
we
actually
lived.
Yeah.
And
then
the
other
thing
is,
you
know,
tremendously,
much
more
exercise.
I
want
to
talk
about
all
of
these
things,
future
episodes.
But
I
was
feeling
personally
so
stressed
from
what's
happening
right
now
politically
that
I
wanted
to
talk
about
how
to

(54:49):
have
compassion
for
each
other
and,
and
how
we
have
these
deep,
deep
buttons
that
are
not
under
our
conscious
control.
And
we
have
to
acknowledge
us
in
each
other
and
in
ourselves
and
to
try
and,
you
know,
let
each
other
off
the
hook
and
let
ourselves
off
the
hook
for
the
bad
things
we
do
all
the
time.
And
to
see
ourselves
as
living
in
this
world
where
we
can
try
and

(55:09):
be
better
people.
But
we
should
really
be
trying
to
focus
on
ourselves
first,
because
that's
where
you
can
start
taking
responsibility
for
your
own
actions. 9944 00:55:19,230 --> 00:00:00,-01 Eric:
Thank
you. 9947 00:55:21,150 --> 00:00:00,-01 Dr. Stout:
Thank
you.
Yeah.
Yeah. 9952 00:55:23,970 --> 00:00:00,-01 Eric:
See
you
next
time. 9957 00:55:24,840 --> 00:00:00,-01 Dr. Stout:
See
you
next
time.