RvK - An Ecological Theory That Is Saving The World

Today Dr. Josh Stout discusses the evolutionary reason parenting styles are so different today than they were in the last century.  Investing in our children is necessary in the modern cubical meritocracy, and keeping them in school is saving the world.

Episode Transcript

(00:06):
Friday,
December
1st.
And
this
is
the
beginning
of
season
two
of
mind
body
evolution.
Hi,
Josh. 19 00:00:15,418 --> 00:00:00,-01 Dr. Josh Stout:
Hello,
Eric.
Yeah,
very
excited
about
this
moving
forward.
We
took
a
week
off
for
Thanksgiving.
I
am
going
to
be
trying
to
work
without
notes
this
week
because
I

(00:26):
have
been
putting
together
some
grants 56 00:00:00,-01 --> 00:00:27,898 , which 57 00:00:00,-01 --> 00:00:00,-01
I'm
really
excited
about
with
the
Life
Worth
Living
project.
We'll
see
if
that
works
out.
It's
very. 76 00:00:32,308 --> 00:00:00,-01 Eric:
Exciting. 78 00:00:32,788 --> 00:00:00,-01 Dr. Josh Stout:
Very
exciting.
I
got
a
whole
bunch
of
different
projects
happening.
I'm
getting
my
research
class
together,
so
we'll
find
out
about
that.
I
can
give
you
some
updates
about
that,
probably
probably
in
season
three.
Okay.
Going
to
take
some
time 121 00:00:00,-01 --> 00:00:46,288 . But 122 00:00:00,-01 --> 00:00:00,-01
today

(00:46):
I
want
to
talk
about
a
ecological
theory
that
is,
you
know,
well
known
in
academic
circles,
but
not
really
outside
of
it.
It's
called
our
versus
K
sounds
kind
of
obscure,
but
it
actually
explains
how
how
basically
spoiling
our
children
is
going
to
save
the
world
and

(01:07):
how
we
we
are
driven
to
do
things
that
seem
to
not
necessarily
be
good
for
us
or
our
children,
but
it
is
actually
part
of
a
larger
force
that
evolution
is
has
has
has
dictated
for
us
the
sort
of
ecological
relationships
have
dictated
for
us.

(01:27):
It's
a
lot
like
economics.
Economics
has
a
has
a
particular
drive
to
it.
And
you
can
you
can
come
up
with
equations
that
describe
how
things
work
in
economics,
but
that
once
you
understand
it,
you
can
see
how
everything
else
is
is
pushed
by
it.
And
it's
not
a
it's
not
something
you
decide.
It's
just
sort
of
a
force
of
nature. 284 00:01:46,588 --> 00:00:00,-01 Eric:
The
thing
that
happens. 289 00:01:47,518 --> 00:00:00,-01 Dr. Josh Stout:

(01:47):
A
thing
that
happens.
Exactly.
Yeah,
yeah,
yeah. 298 00:01:50,398 --> 00:00:00,-01 Eric:
So
our
versus
our. 303 00:01:51,688 --> 00:00:00,-01 Dr. Josh Stout:
Versus
K,
exactly.
So
the
R
part
is
reproduction.
And
so
organisms
compete
to
produce
the
most
babies.
That's
the
nature
of
evolution.
And
so
one
way
to
win
the
evolution
game
is
producing
more
babies.

(02:08):
And
so
that's
the
the
are
competition.
So
if
you
are
an
organism
that
wants
to
produce
babies,
you
have
babies
very
early,
you
have
lots
of
them.
They're
small
and
you
don't
give
a
lot
of
care
to
them
because
they
have
to
be
often
making
their
own
babies
as
soon
as
possible.
So
things
that
are
what
you
call
are
selected
are
things
like
mice. 407 00:02:27,628 --> 00:00:00,-01 Eric:
Cockroaches. 409 00:02:28,378 --> 00:00:00,-01 Dr. Josh Stout:
Cockroaches,

(02:29):
things
that
reproduce
very,
very
quickly,
have
zero
parental
care.
They
tend
to
be
small,
short
lived
and
have
small
brains.
So
they're
just
sort
of
the
essence
of
of
of
what
our
selection
is. 446 00:02:41,188 --> 00:00:00,-01 Eric:
Why
is
that
are
for
reproduce,
for. 454 00:02:42,988 --> 00:00:00,-01 Dr. Josh Stout:
Reproduction,
literally
for
reproduction.
And
then
the
the
other
side
of
it
is
K
selection.
K
because

(02:49):
of
whatever
reasons,
pe
who
are
first
working
on
this
were
Germans.
They
came
up
with
K
for
carrying
capacity. 492 00:02:56,008 --> 00:00:00,-01 Eric:
Okay. 494 00:02:56,428 --> 00:00:00,-01 Dr. Josh Stout:
It's
just
one
of
those
things.
Yeah. 502 00:02:57,718 --> 00:00:00,-01 Eric:
As
in,
as
in
the,
the. 509 00:02:59,728 --> 00:00:00,-01 Dr. Josh Stout:
K
means
the
carrying. 514 00:03:02,578 --> 00:00:00,-01 Eric:
But
what
is
carrying
capacity
carry. 521 00:03:04,318 --> 00:00:00,-01 Dr. Josh Stout:
Okay.
Yeah.
We're
about
to
talk
about
that.
Okay.
Yeah.
So
carrying
capacity
is
the,

(03:09):
the
limits
of
a
particular
environment.
So
if
you're
an
organism
and
you
need
to
live
in
a
hole,
how
many
holes
are
there
to
live
in?
That's
the
carrying
capacity
in
a
particular
environment.
How
much
food
is
the
environment
is
in
the
environment,
are
you
going
to
able
to
support
your
offspring? 591 00:03:23,128 --> 00:00:00,-01 Eric:
So
in
other
words,
how
what
population
can
the
environment
support? 603 00:03:27,178 --> 00:00:00,-01 Dr. Josh Stout:
Right?
And
that
would
be
theoretically
a
given

(03:29):
number
so
that
you
can't
really
exceed
that
amount.
And
so
if
you're
an
organism
living
at
carrying
capacity,
you're
working
very
differently
from
one
that
is
trying
to
compete
at
reproductive
rate.
So
reproductive
rate
is
when
there
is
a
few
limiting
resources.
You're
just
trying
to
push
out
babies
as
fast
as
you
possibly
can
and
those
babies
are
going
to
be

(03:50):
pushing
out
their
babies
as
fast
as
they
can,
etc.
But
as
the
numbers
build
up,
you
start
to
reach
a
maximum
level
in
that
kind
of
world,
when
there
is
some
sort
of
limiting
factor,
usually
whoever's
biggest
and
strongest
wins,
not
the
one
with
the
most
babies.
So
if
you
think
of
something
like
an
elephant,
an
elephant
has

(04:10):
very
few
natural
predators.
They
have
the
limits
of
their
own
habitat,
are
limiting
their
population.
They
have
little
slowing
them
down.
Of
course,
obviously
modern
humans
have
slowed
elephants
down
greatly,
but
before
us,
elephants
really
had
nothing
that
they
had
to
worry
about.
They
had
very
large
babies
that
they
would

(04:30):
give
a
lot
of
parental
care
to.
They
would
teach
them
where
to
go,
where
to
find
the
foods,
and
they
would
protect
those
babies.
So
those
babies
had
a
very
good
chance
of
surviving.
And
when
they
did,
they
would
become
a
huge
animal
that
had
nothing
that
could
threaten
them.
And
so
what
they
want
to
do
is
they
want
to
make
the
biggest
possible
baby.
And
if
you
want
to
make
the
biggest
possible
baby,
you

(04:50):
don't
have
lots
of
babies.
You
have
one
baby
at
a
time
and
you
make
it
really,
really
big.
And
the
biggest
baby
is
going
to
be
the
biggest
elephant
and
it's
going
to
win
the
elephant
game
and
make
new
big
babies.
And
so
this
is
carrying
competing,
carrying
capacity.
So
it's
very,
very
different.
It's
almost
the
opposite
of
competing
for
reproduction.
So
you
have
babies
later
in
your
life
after

(05:10):
you've
built
up
resources
and
you
have
more
experience,
you
put
all
of
your
resources
into
your
baby
to
make
them
as
big
as
possible
so
they
can
grow
up
to
be
the
biggest
possible
elephant.
You
tend
to
be
long
lived
because
it
takes
a
while
to
make
a
baby,
and
if
you're
going
make
more
than
one,
it's
going
to
take
a
really
long
time.
You
have
very
long
gestation
period
so
that
the
baby's
developing

(05:30):
for
a
really
long
time.
And
then
when
it's
born,
you
have
further
care
after
that.
So
a
lot
of
parental
care,
a
lot
of
communal
care.
It's
not
just
one
female
elephant
with
a
baby
elephant.
It's
the
entire
community
working
together. 1063 00:05:43,798 --> 00:00:00,-01 Eric:
The
creatures
are
born,
running,
and
the
creatures
need
years. 1074 00:05:48,328 --> 00:00:00,-01 Dr. Josh Stout:
Of
years
and
years
of
care.
Exactly.

(05:51):
And
this
care
has
has
a
real
value
because
as
as
they
they
as
the
elephant
develops,
it
learns
its
culture
and
its
culture
tells
them
where
the
water
is,
tells
them
where
to
go
at
a
particular
time,
and
they're
able
to
travel
around
their
habitat
and
understand
it
in
a
way
that
if
they
hadn't
been
taught,
they
wouldn't
know

(06:11):
it.
Many,
many
of
these
societies
tend
to
have
a
longer
lived
matriarch.
That
is
the
sort
of
repository
of
knowledge
this
goes
for
pretty
much
all
of
the
the
more
intelligent
species
out
there,
like
whales
and
elephants.
They
tend
to
have
a
group
led
by
an
older

(06:31):
female
who
has
the
sort
of
knowledge
of
the
group
and
tells
people
where
to
go
and
what
to
do,
not
people
elephants.
But
the
the
idea
is
that
the
knowledge
itself
is
part
of
the
ecological
adaptation,
that
this
knowledge
contained
in
the
community,
in
the
culture,
is
vital
to
raising

(06:51):
this
young
elephant.
And
the
by
keeping
this
knowledge
in
the
in
the
group,
the
young
elephant
has
a
much
higher
chance
of
success
and
will
be
a
bigger
elephant
that
then
makes
more
bigger
elephants.
And
so
this
is
a
is
a
is
a
evolutionary
strategy
as
opposed
to
our
selection
that
maximizes

(07:12):
things
in
a
totally
different
direction.
Big
brains,
large
body,
long
lived,
lots
of
parental
care.
So
obviously
humans
are
lying
in
this
realm.
We
are
not
mice,
we
are
much
more
like
elephants.
And
this
is
true
of
mammals
in
general.
If
you
compare,
say,
mammals
to
insects,
mammals
in
general

(07:32):
tend
to
have
more
infant
care.
We
nurse
our
babies.
I
one
of
our
defining
characteristics.
We
tend
to
work
in
social
groups
in
sex
can
as
well,
but
it's
very,
very
different.
And
so
this
this
is
a
defining
characteristic
of
our
entire
group
in
general.
But
then
when
you
get
into
primates,
it
becomes

(07:52):
stronger.
So
primates
tend
to
have
more
parental
care
and
fewer
babies
than
other
comparative
sized
animals,
and
they
tend
to
be
a
little
bit
smarter.
So
they're
they're
have
slightly
larger
brains.
They're
spending
more
time
training,
they're
young,
where
to
find
food,
and

(08:12):
they
are
basically
competing
with
other
members
of
their
own
species.
Usually
primates
are
going
to
have
within
species
competition.
There's
also
between
species
competition.
But
a
lot
of
it
is
is
going
to
be
within
species,
they
tended
to
get
larger

(08:33):
body
sizes.
So
so
lemurs
in
general
are
a
little
bit
smaller
than
monkeys.
Monkeys
in
general
are
a
little
bit
smaller
than
apes.
So
obviously
there's
exceptions
to
this.
There's
tiny
monkeys
and
there's
bigger
lemurs.
But
as
you
look
at
the
entire
sort
of
graph
of
body
size
and
sort
of
evolutionary
development. 1549 00:08:52,679 --> 00:00:00,-01 Eric:
As
you
look
at
the

(08:53):
graph
of
body
size
of
humans
in
the
modern
era,
we've
gotten
bigger. 1568 00:08:57,389 --> 00:00:00,-01 Dr. Josh Stout:
How
we
we
can
talk
about
that.
Okay,
that's
a
separate
issue.
I
don't
mean. 1584 00:09:01,469 --> 00:00:00,-01 Eric:
To
jump
ahead. 1588 00:09:02,009 --> 00:00:00,-01 Dr. Josh Stout:
Yeah.
So
in
general,
we've
been
moving
in
this
direction
longer
lives,
larger
body
size,
bigger
brains,
more
parental
care
and
more
competing
at
carrying
capacity.

(09:14):
So
you
can
see
that
that
monkeys
are
smarter
than
lemurs
and
they
have
a
longer
parental
care,
period.
Apes
are
smarter
than
monkeys
and
they
have
an
even
longer
parental
care
period
within
this
group.
Except
for
gorillas,
we're
really
the
largest
in
humans
are
the
only
thing

(09:34):
larger
than
us
would
be,
you
know,
a
silverback
gorilla,
which
are
huge,
bu
they're
also
our
closest
relative.
So
they're
definitely
the
direction
we've
been
moving
in
for
for,
for,
for
some
time.
Once
you
get
up
to
something
like
a
silverback
gorilla,
you
really
have
eliminated
almost
all
of
the
predators
that
can
that
can
compete
with
you

(09:55):
as
the. 1726 00:09:55,409 --> 00:00:00,-01 Eric:
Elephant
of
this. 1730 00:09:56,819 --> 00:00:00,-01 Dr. Josh Stout:
Yeah,
exactly.
And
it's
all
about
guarding
mates
and
making
sure
you're
the
one
to
reproduce.
If
you're
a
female
silverback,
you
want
to
protect
that
silverback.
You're
a
female
gorilla.
You
want
to
make
really
big
babies
so
one
of
them
can
grow
up
to
be
the
dominant
silverback
and
have
all
the
reproductive
success.
And
so

(10:15):
it
becomes
even
more
important
because
it's
somewhat
of
a
winner
take
all
if
your
male
baby
doesn't
win
this
this
this
contest
to
be
the
big
silverback
with
a
harem,
he's
going
to
have
zero
reproductive
success
because
he'll
he'll
never
have
a
reproductive
opportunity.
Whereas
a
silverback
that
has
a
harem
of
females

(10:35):
has
all
of
the
reproductive
abilities.
So
there's
even
more
pressure
to
produce
really
large
babies
that
are
going
to
win
these
competitions
with
humans.
We
ended
up
in
a
in
a
similar
sort
of
situation.
So
we
we
left
the
jungle,
we
became
upright
apes
on
the
Serengeti,
and
our

(10:55):
brains
grew
maybe
a
little
tiny
bit.
We
probably
were
needing
a
little
bit
more
tool
use
because
we
had
to
dig
up
tubers.
It's
really
hard
to
dig
with
your
hair,
but
if
you
have
a
stick,
you
can
dig
something
up.
So
I'm
not
saying
we
were
intelligent
yet
as
we're
going
on
the
Serengeti,
but
we're
needing
some
of
the
aspects
of
intelligence
so
we
could
dig
up
a
tuber
with
a
stick,
We
could
crack
a
nut
with
it,

(11:15):
with
a
with
a
rock,
some
very,
very
simple
tool.
Use
the
kind
of
things
that
you
would
expect
a
chimpanzee
to
be
able
to
do
if
it,
say,
were
a
biped
with
hands,
that
it
could
hold
things
with
a
little
bit
better.
And
being
out
on
the
Serengeti,
but
still
mostly
chimpanzee
hands,
mostly
chimpanzee
brain,
but
just
sort
of
a
biped
that
needs
a
little
bit
more
than
what
chimpanzees
needed
because
they
need

(11:35):
to
know
where
things
are.
It's
harder
to
find
a
tube
underground
than
it
is
to
see
a
fruit
growing
in
a
tree.
So
knowledge
would
have
been
useful
to
pass
on
to
future
generations.
So
we
could
imagine
that
these
these
early
Australopithecines
would
have
lived
in
family
groups.
An
isolated
female
australopithecine
with
a
young
child
would
not
have
been
able

(11:55):
to
survive
on
her
own.
S
we
could
imagine
that
this
would
have
built
a
community
much
like
the
whales
and
the
elephants.
They
probably
had
some
older
female
which
knew
where
things
were,
and
that
was
would
have
been,
you
know,
guiding
the
organization
with
the
sort
of
cultural
memory
of
where
foods
were,
where
the
rains
come,
that
kind
of
thing,
dates,
times,
places.

(12:18):
When
we
make
the
transition
to
genus
homo,
when
our
brains
roughly
double
in
size,
we
become
even
more
dependent.
So
when
when,
when,
when
an
infinite
is
born,
we
can't
make
our
brains
big
enough

(12:38):
to
be
as
intelligent
as
we
are
today.
That's
sort
of
a
confusing
way
to
put
it,
but
I,
an
infant,
must
be
born
with
a
brain
small
enough
to
get
out
of
the
birth
canal
of
a
biped.
If
you
spread
the
hips
any
wider,
the
biped
waddle
side
to
side.
Pregnant
women
have
problems
with
moving
side
to
side
as
they
walk
anyway

(12:58):
because
their
hips
are
spreading
and
this
is
slowing
them
down.
It's
making
them
less
efficient.
Any
further
spreading
of
the
hips
would
be
even
more
inefficient.
So
bipeds
are
strictly
restricted
to
the
size
of
the
birth
canal,
which
restricts
the
size
of
the
brain.
So
we
maximize
the
size
of
a
brain
of
a
baby
that
can
be

(13:18):
born.
And
then
we
end
up
with
essentially
a
21
month
gestation
period.
So
we
have
the
first
nine
months
in
the
womb,
and
then
we
continue
after
that
for
about
another
year
of
a
brain
growing.
And
so
this
is. 2386 00:13:33,749 --> 00:00:00,-01 Eric:
The
skull
plates
are
not
fused. 2393 00:13:36,119 --> 00:00:00,-01 Dr. Josh Stout:
The
skull
plates
are
not
fused,
the
neurons

(13:38):
are
dividing
rapidly.
The
the
brain
is
growing
really
rapidly.
And
so
the
the
these
infants
are
even
more
dependent
than
any
other
primate
has
ever
been.
So
primates
in
general
are
smart
with
big
brains
and
dependent
infants.
But
now
we've
we've
entered
a
whole
new
range
of
dependency.
So
we're

(13:58):
k
selected.
But
on
another
level
that
other
things
really
haven't
been
in
terms
of
our
dependent
offspring,
we
take
so
much
effort
to
raise
our
young. 2481 00:14:07,139 --> 00:00:00,-01 Eric:
And
this
this
happened
during
the
transition
to
the
Serengeti. 2492 00:14:13,289 --> 00:00:00,-01 Dr. Josh Stout:
The
Serengeti
was
really
just
a
B
us
becoming
upright
apes.
This
was
the
transition
to
us
getting
big
brains,
the

(14:19):
our
genus.
So
Serengeti
was
about
6
million
years
ago.
Our
genus
is
about
2
million
years
ago.
Okay,
so
now
we
have
not
just
sticks
and
stones
that
we
used
to
dig
something
up
with,
but
we
have
stones
that
are
purposely
shaped.
They
have
sharp
edges,
they
take
chips
and
they
require
a
little
bit
more
work.
They
require

(14:39):
a
plan
ahead
of
time. 2580 00:14:40,679 --> 00:00:00,-01 Eric:
So
this
was
well
after
we
got
access
to
the
marrow.
When
you
were
talking
about
this
is
that
moment.
This
is
them. 2604 00:14:45,839 --> 00:00:00,-01 Dr. Josh Stout:
This
is
that
moment.
Australopithec
probably
were
doing
some
scavenging.
They
would
have
been
able
to
maybe
scare
off
some
predators
by
doing
some
throwing,
but
now
we're
at
a
whole
nother
level.
Australopithecines
would
not
have
had
a
shoulder
that
could
throw

(14:59):
wood
very
well,
just
like
chimp
chimps
can't
do
that.
Homo
erectus
has
a
I
even
better
body
for,
say,
running.
But
specifically
it
has
adaptations
to
the
the
shoulders
that
allow
throwing. 2681 00:15:14,189 --> 00:00:00,-01 Eric:
So
we've
reached
the
point
where
we
have
actually
been
selected
for
better

(15:19):
body
is
for
throwing
and
running. 2701 00:15:21,719 --> 00:00:00,-01 Dr. Josh Stout:
Right.
And
in
terms
of
our
our
our,
our
brains
up
until
now,
keeping
a
small
brain
worked
really
well
with
being
a
biped
because
you
could
easily
give
birth.
But
now
you've
reached
something
else.
We've
reached
a
period
where
our
our
abilities
are
requiring
large
brains

(15:39):
to
make
these
sophisticated
tools
to
do
the
kind
of
planning
and
throwing
and
targeting
that
I
think
we
need
to
do
is
Homo
erectus
needs
a
really,
really
big
brain.
And
so
once
we
start
producing
these
big
brained
offspring,
we
require
even
more
parental
care.
We
require
more
sharing
within
a
group.

(15:59):
So
the
groups
are
forming
a
sort
of
higher
level
culture
where
individuals
can
no
longer
survive
on
their
own.
Even
small
family
groups
cannot
survive
on
their
own.
They
must
be
interacting
with
others.
Interestingly,
you
see
the
sexual
dimorphism
between
males
and
females
reducing

(16:19):
during
this
period.
So
Australopithecines
are
more
like
a
silverback
gorilla.
The
males
are
almost
twice
as
big
as
the
females,
but
that
by
the
time
you
get
to
Homo
erectus,
the
males
are
only
about
20%
bigger
than
the
than
the
females.
It's
it's
it's
it's
closer
to
a
chimpanzee
kind
of
size
disparity.
So
there
is
still
male

(16:40):
male
competition,
but
it's
within
a
larger
group.
So
the
same
way
chimpanzees
are
all
working
within
a
larger
group
and
because
of
that
can
have
a
much
larger
troop
than,
say,
silverback
gorillas.
So
silverback
gorillas
might
have
20
in
an
entire
group,
whereas
a
chimpanzee
could
have
80
or
90

(17:00):
with
an
entire
group
because
they
have
many
males
working
together.
The
same
thing
would
have
been
happening
with
Homo
erectus.
So
once
males
are
now
cooperating,
they
don't
need
to
have
one
that's
twice
the
size
of
everyone
else.
They're
now
much
closer
in
size
to
the
females.
Probably
tools
have
something
to
do
with
this.
If
you've
got
a
rock
in
your
hand,
it
doesn't
help
you
that
much

(17:20):
to
be
twice
the
size
of
the
other
guy,
so
size
doesn't
matter
as
much.
Our
teeth
get
smaller,
Our
our
sexual
dimorphism
shrinks
at
the
same
time
as
our
brain
is
doubling
in
size.
This
would
have
been
very,
very
difficult
for
women
going
through
childbirth
because
now
essentially
the
brain
and
birth
canal
are
the
same
size

(17:40):
or
the
brain
is
actually
slightly
larger.
So
the
hips
have
to
shift
to
give
birth.
The
brain
has
to
be
squeezed
to
actually
come
out
of
that.
It
actually
has
to
fold
the
hinges
in
the
in
the
in
the
skull.
So
these
are
very
dependent
offspring
now.
But
during
this
dependent
period
now
is
arriving

(18:00):
another
level
of
culture.
So
these
stone
tools
can
be
taught
to
the
next
generation.
You
can
learn
to
do
these
things
that
get
you
more
food.
So
now
instead
of
just
a
crushing
rock
that
you
maybe
could
pound
through
a
bone
through
to
get
the
bone
marrow,
now
we
have
slicing
and
crushing
rock
so
we
can
cut
through
a
hide
that
no
other
animal
on
the
Serengeti
can
get
through.

(18:21):
So
we
can
slice
it
and
we
can
get
to
the
meat
and
we
can
use
basically
cleaver
shaped
rocks
to
break
the
biggest
bones
that
we
can
actually
smash
into
a
full
size
elephant
bone
and
get
the
marrow
out
of
there.
So
these
are
new
resources
combined
with
new
costs
tremendously
dependent
offspring

(18:41):
requiring
sharing,
requiring
people
to
work
together. 3284 00:18:44,549 --> 00:00:00,-01 Eric:
Is
like
a
precursor
to
the
farming
trap.
Like
we
we
get
these
new
resources,
but
they
create
a
new,
new
dependency. 3307 00:18:53,499 --> 00:00:00,-01 Dr. Josh Stout:
Yeah,
exactly.
And
so
this
this
is
something
that
happens
over
and
over
again.
As
soon
as
you
maximize
something,
you
reach
the
limitations
of
that
thing.
And
so
we

(19:01):
maximize
our
brains
and
we've
reached
the
limitations
of
what
big
brains
can
do.
We
can't
make
our
brains
any
bigger
and
still
give
birth.
It's
just
impossible.
And
so
we've
we've
reached
this
kind
of
maximum
situation.
And
what
we
do
is
the
development
happens
outside
the
womb.
And
much
of
the
development

(19:22):
has
now
become
the
development
of
culture,
not
a
physiological
development.
We
have
knowledge
that
gets
passed
down
from
generation
to
generation
that
makes
us
who
we
are
outside
of
our
physiology.
It's
not
programmed
in
the
way
it
would
be
programmed
in.
A
mouse
doesn't
have
to
be
taught
to
do
anything.
It
just
knows
what
to
do.
Whereas
a
baby
needs
to
be
told
everything.

(19:42):
Single
thing. 3461 00:19:43,379 --> 00:00:00,-01 Eric:
Every
single
thing. 3465 00:19:44,519 --> 00:00:00,-01 Dr. Josh Stout:
Every
single
thing.
And
so
this
has
been
programmed
into
us
as
humans
for
the
last
2
million
years
since
we
got
big
brains
taking
care
of
our
kids
has
been
essentially
a
number
one
priority
as
individuals
and
as
communities.
If
a
community
doesn't
care,
come
together
to
have
kids,
it
won't
have
kids
because

(20:03):
it's
necessary.
If
you're
a
man
and
a
woman
raising
a
baby,
I'm
sorry,
these
are
gendered
binaries,
but
this
is
biology.
I
tend
to
talk
this
way
if
you're
a
man
and
a
woman
having
a
baby
and
you
have
to
take
care
of
that
baby,
you're
not
going
to
get
the
calories
needed
to
bring
up
the
baby,
let
alone,
you
know,
keep
yourself
alive.
So
you
need
to
be
part
of

(20:23):
a
of
a
larger
group.
And
everyone
needs
this.
There
there
are
there
are
periods
of
time
where
we
all
need
to
work
together
to
actually
produce
infants.
Otherwise,
they
just
will
starve.
And
a
hunter
gatherer
female
can
produce
enough
calories
to
keep
herself
alive
with
maybe
a
tiny
bit
of
surplus.

(20:43):
But
working
with
a
mate,
she
can
get
enough
to
actually
keep
her
toddlers
alive
and
maybe
have
a
get
pregnant
with
another
infant.
And
you
know
what?
If
her
me
doesn't
doesn't
actually
find
meat
that
day,
other
people
in
the
group
will
be
able
to
bring
them
meat.
Now,
I
do
have
a
tendency
to
tell
these
narratives

(21:03):
that
could
reinforce
certain
sexist
stereotypes
of
the
female
string,
staying
at
home
with
the
babies
and
the
male
hunters
going
out
and
getting
food.
This
is
something
that
is
seen
in
hunter
gatherer
societies,
but
they've
only
recently
started
looking
at
the
literature
and
realizing
that

(21:23):
basically
every
time
women
are
out
getting
food,
they
call
it
gathering.
And
in
time
men
are
getting
food,
they
call
it
hunting.
And
it
turns
out
that
they're
actually
in
many
ways
working
in
the
same
projects.
So
one
of
the
best
ways
to
hunt
is
you
have
a
whole
bunch
of
people
driving
animals
towards
a
hunter
waiting
with
a
spear.
That's
also

(21:44):
the
younger
males.
And
the
females
can
be
doing
this
driving
where
as
a
large
male
who's
stronger
might
be
able
to
drive
that
spear
home.
You
know,
these
these
are
these
are
facts
of
biology.
I'm
not
trying
to
tell
a
gendered
story,
but
you
would
imagine
that
if
you
sort
of
take
a
slightly
larger

(22:04):
view,
the
idea
of
only
men
do
hunting,
I
think
is
false,
that
women
are
participating
in
the
hunting,
wome
are
participating
in
all
of
the
calorie
acquisition.
There's
a
few
things
that
simply
being
stronger
as
a
man
probably
have
some
advantages.
The
part
where
you're
running
to
that
dead
animal
and
then
try
to
defend

(22:24):
it
and
bring
back
the
food
that
was
probably
mostly
men.
But
you
can
certainly
see
cultures
where
women
would
participate
in
this
sort
of
thing.
And
there's
been
many
times
when,
for
example,
in
the
animal
world,
men
become
too
muscle
bound
to
do
the
running.
So,
for
example,
the
female
lions
do
all
the
hunting,

(22:45):
the
male
lions
don't
do
the
hunting.
Every
once
in
a
while
there's
a
situation
where
female
lions
will
chase
a
buffalo
towards
a
male
lion
who's
big
and
strong
enough
to
bring
that
buffalo
down.
But
it's
the
women
who
actually
do
predominantly
the
hunting.
So
we
could
we
could
look
at
these
these
stories
from
that
point
of
view.
We
could
see
that
the
women
are
actually
doing
most
of

(23:05):
the
calorie
acquisition.
And
every
once
in
a
while
men
are
coming
back
with
a
with
a
large
supply
of
meat.
So
there's
different
ways
you
could
look
at
that
same
story. 4096 00:23:13,919 --> 00:00:00,-01 Eric:
Well,
that
sounds
familiar.
Yeah. 4102 00:23:15,809 --> 00:00:00,-01 Dr. Josh Stout:
So
there's
different
ways
you
can
look
at
that
same
story.
But
we
tend
we
have
tended
to
look
at
it
from
a
totally
male
point
of
view.
And
I
think
that's
a
fancy
that.
I
think
that's

(23:25):
a
mistake.
Yeah.
And
this
is
something
that
we've
only
recently
started
looking
again.
Papers
were
coming
out
in
2017
talking
about
how
we
need
to
re-evaluate
these
these
this
analysis
of
hunter
gatherers.
All
right.
So
anyway,
we've
got
this
idea
of
a
community
raising
offspring
and
that
a
lot
of
what
the
community
is
doing
is
providing
culture,

(23:46):
which
allows
the
community
to
keep
going
and
and
acquire
more
calories
for
its
offspring.
And
so
this
is
a
necessary
part
of
being
human
right
from
the
very
beginning
of
having
a
large
brain.
So
sort
of
let's
fast
forward
through
our
cultures.
You
get
to
a
farming
culture

(24:06):
and
suddenly
it's
really
adventitious
to
have
more
children
in
a
farming
community.
The
more
children
you
have
working
the
fields,
the
more
calories
you're
bringing
in.
And
so
if
farming
families
tend
to
maximize
the
number
of
children
and
experience
famines
every
time
it
doesn't
rain
or
there's
a
flood,

(24:26):
there's
problems
with
it.
And
so
what
happens
when
we
when
we
get
farming
communities,
we
shrink,
our
bodies
get
smaller,
our
brains
get
smaller.
And
so
for
the
last
10,000
years
or
so,
our
brains
were
actually
smaller
than
they
were
as
hunter
gatherers
in
the
Paleolithic.
And
our
and
our
bodies
shrink.
So
we,
we,
we
became
smaller,
our
brains

(24:46):
became
smaller
and
we
started
having
more,
more
children.
And
so
this
is
where
we've
been
for
sort
of
the
last
10,000
years.
Children
were
certainly
not
expendable,
but
it
was
a
natural
part
of
life,
living
in
large
communities
that
you
would
write
off
a
couple
diseases.
And
so
very
often
you
lose
children
before
the
age
of
five

(25:07):
to
these
communicable
diseases
that
existed
because
of
farming.
If
you
lived
in
a
hunter
gatherer
society,
you
didn't
have
plagues
running
through
your
your
city
because
you
didn't
have
a
city.
Whereas
if
you're
all
sort
of
the
huddled
masses
all
living
together
in
a
city
and
you're
doing
your
farming,
you
want
as
many
babies
as
you
can
to
to

(25:28):
raise
your
crops
and
harvest
your
crops,
and
you're
going
to
lose
some
to
diseases
rolling
through.
And
so
this
is
just
sort
of
the
way
we've
been
living
for
the
last
10,000
years
or
so.
This
didn't
change
much
in
the
Industrial
Revolution.
People
often
think
of
the
beginning
of
the
Industrial
Revolution
as
a

(25:48):
a
essentially
a
a
rise
of
these
these
farmers
moving
to
the
city.
And
suddenly
the
city
is
becoming
technological
and
the
farmers
are
sort
of
swelling
the
populations
of
the
city.
But
it
turns
out
that
a
much
of
the
Industrial
Revolution,
for
example,
London,
was
a
population
sink,

(26:08):
that
people
would
move
from
the
countryside,
move
to
London,
and
if
you
were
poor
in
London
in
the
18th
century,
you
were
going
to
die
of
disease
pretty
early,
and
that
a
large
portion
of
the
actual
offspring
being
born
were
offspring
of
the
upper
classes.
One
way
or
another.
They
were
they
were
having
babies
with
their
maids

(26:28):
or
with
prostitute,
which. 4656 00:26:29,589 --> 00:00:00,-01 Eric:
You're
saying
the
lower
classes
were
just
dying. 4665 00:26:31,649 --> 00:00:00,-01 Dr. Josh Stout:
They
were
not
a
population.
They
were
not
they
were
not
a
growing
population
For
for
the
most
part,
the
population
was
growing
outside
of
the
cities
as
we
were
getting
better
AI
farming
practices,
we
had
mills
that
could
drain
the
flower
better.
We
had
more
transportation
as

(26:48):
as
people
were
getting
better
food
outside
the
cities
and
still
having
large,
la
population,
large
numbers
of
babies.
The
population
would
rise
outside
the
city.
They'd
move
to
the
city
to
to
make
money,
and
then
they
would
die
of
cholera.
And
so,
yeah,
so
so
this
was
this
is
what
we
built
for
ourselves
in
the
Industrial
Revolution.
And
as
this

(27:08):
ended,
as
we
were
transitioning
to
a
sort
of
post-industrial
world,
we
figured
out
medicine,
we
figured
out
flush
toilets
and
sanitation,
and
we
started
turning
our
cities
into
places
where
populations
were
actually
growing
as
opposed
to
population
sinks.
And
so
it
became

(27:29):
reasonable
to
expect
your
babies
to
not
die
in
the
first
couple
of
years.
And
as
this
is
happening,
we
start
discovering
that
to
do
well
in
the
world,
it
helps
for
your
children
to
perhaps
get
a
higher
education.
And
so
we
start
competing
for
instead
of
how
many
babies
can
I
turn
out
to

(27:49):
make
myself
more
food
on
my
farm,
we
start
competing
for
whose
babies
can
can
succeed
the
best
in
this
sort
of
post-industrial
society
where
everything
is
divided,
decided
by
who
got
to
the
best
university.
If
got
to
the
best
high
school,
who
got
to
best
junior
high
school,
etc.. 4929 00:28:07,249 --> 00:00:00,-01 Eric:
So
now
it's
about
technology.
Even
even

(28:09):
if
that
technology
is
reading
and
writing. 4944 00:28:11,549 --> 00:00:00,-01 Dr. Josh Stout:
Even
if
that
technology
is
reading
and
writing,
it's
already
built
into
our
into
our
into
our
species.
Right.
And
we
know
we
need
culture
to
support
our
babies.
We
know
we
need
passing
knowledge
on
to
the
next
generation.
This
has
been
done
right
from
the
very
beginning,
but
suddenly,

(28:29):
instead
of
just
the
number
of
hands
you
have
working
the
fields,
it's
all
about
culture
and
it's
all
about
who
has
the
most
knowledge.
And
it's
all
about
who
can
win
the
game
based
on
who
has
the
most
resources
put
into
their
offspring
to
develop
the
most
culture,
essentially.
And
so
we
start
to
transition

(28:50):
to
a
world
where
we
are
having
fewer
babies
because
they're
no
longer
on
the
farm.
Those
babies
are
surviving
because
we've
defeated
cholera
by
having
flush
toilets,
and
we
now
are
seeing
the
families
that
have
fewer
babies
doing
better
than
the
families
that
have
too
many
babies.

(29:11):
Babies
have
now
become
a
cost,
a
resource
cost.
And
we
start
thinking
as
rational
beings
about
maybe
I
don't
want
to
have
as
many
babies
because
I
need
to
put
more
resources
into
them
if
they're
going
to
end
up
going
to
college.
And
so
you
end
up
with
a
situation
where
rationally

(29:32):
people
are
needing
more
and
more
resources
for
their
effort
to
to
to
rate
to
raise
a
child.
At
the
same
time
as
this
is
happening,
we
get
birth
control
and
we
end
up
deciding
that
women
can
also
have
jobs
as
well
as
men.
So
now
you
need
two
parents
working
together,
much
like
the
hunter
gatherers
did
to
produce

(29:52):
enough
resources.
I
won't
say
calories
at
this
point.
Calories.
We
have
an
abundance,
but
it's
a
different
kind
of
resources.
It's
money,
but
it's
also
knowledge,
resources.
And
you
need
both
parents
working
together
to
produce
this.
Single
parents
have
a
harder
time.
It's
not
impossible,
but
it's
harder.
And
it
becomes,
you
know,
very,
very
difficult

(30:13):
for
a
child
without
parents
to
succeed
in
any
way.
So
you're
going
to
be
producing
fewer
offspring
that
you
put
more
resources
into
and
resources
into,
and
you
work
together
as
as. 5308 00:30:24,959 --> 00:00:00,-01 Eric:
As
two
parents
in
the
also. 5315 00:30:27,259 --> 00:00:00,-01 Dr. Josh Stout:
Sorry,
putting
more
and
more
resources
into
into
fewer
children.
And
so
this
is
a
rational

(30:34):
a
rational
strategy
that
we've
developed
where
we
realize
that
we
live
in
an
expensive
world,
where
we're
competing
for
a
limited
number
of
resources
and
that
we're
essentially
at
carrying
capacity.
There
is
no
no
one
is
building
more
and
more
and
more
universities
that
all
need
lots
and
lots
of
people
in
them.
These
are
limited
slots

(30:54):
and
if
you
get
into
a
better
university,
you
have
a
better
chance
of
succeeding
later
in
life
than
if
you
get
into
a
place
that
isn't
a
university
or
you
go
into
a
place
where
you're
not
not
as
successful.
Now,
I'm
mostly
talking
about
sort
of
one
path
to
success.
There's
obviously
other
ways
to
succeed
in
the
world,
but
all
of
these
require
a
lot
of
resources,
a
lot

(31:14):
of
culture
and
a
lot
of
support
from
parents.
So
we
are
purposely
limiting
the
number
of
children
we're
having
because
that
way
we
can
pay
for
their
tuitions
or
their
training
or
the
schooling
they're
going
to. 5501 00:31:28,259 --> 00:00:00,-01 Eric:
Need,
where
we
hope
we
will
have
enough
resources
to
do
what
is
necessary. 5516 00:31:31,859 --> 00:00:00,-01 Dr. Josh Stout:
To
do
what
is
necessary.
And
if
you
have,
say,

(31:34):
six
children,
this
is
much,
much
more
difficult
than
if
you
have
one
or
two.
And
so
across
the
world,
we
are
seeing
essentially
a
demographic
collapse.
Ba
in
the
1970s,
we
were
talking
about
the
population
bomb.
We
were
going
to
explode
in
a
sort
of
neo
malthusian
collapse
of
the
world
as
we
burn

(31:54):
through
all
our
resources,
poison
to
the
environment
around
us.
This
was
happening.
We
really
were
going
through
that
in
your
Malthusian
growth,
it
was
a
logarithmic
curve.
It
was
going
up
almost
straight
up
until
about
a
decade
or
two
ago,
and
now
it's
leveled
off
and
it's
leveled
off
because
we
are
having
fewer
children
really
across
the
world.

(32:14):
And
it's
starting
to
approach
a
point
where
we're
about
to
enter
a
demographic
collapse.
So
you
need
two
children
to
replace
the
two
parents.
So
if
you
have
two
parents,
two
children
equals
the
two
parents.
Generally,
you
want
about
2.1,
2.2
children,
because
sometimes
someone
dies
in
the
process.
So
on
an
average

(32:34):
as
a
culture,
you
need
about
2.1,
2.2
to
replace
the
parents.
We're
now
at
a
point
where
many,
many
countries
are
well
below
two. 5724 00:32:47,309 --> 00:00:00,-01 Eric:
In
Japan,
famously. 5728 00:32:49,019 --> 00:00:00,-01 Dr. Josh Stout:
Korea
just
hit
point
eight. 5734 00:32:50,819 --> 00:00:00,-01 Eric:
Really?
Yeah. 5737 00:32:51,599 --> 00:00:00,-01 Dr. Josh Stout:
So
point
eight.
So
think
about
that.
That
means
less
than
half

(32:55):
of
the
people
in
this
generation
are
going
to
be
in
the
next
generation
that. 5765 00:32:59,819 --> 00:00:00,-01 Eric:
Thanos
is
getting
what
he
wants.
Exactly. 5773 00:33:01,919 --> 00:00:00,-01 Dr. Josh Stout:
Yeah.
So,
so
this
could
be
great
for
the
environment,
but
it's
going
to
cause
all
sorts
of
problems
for
us
economically.
And
it's
a
because,
you
know,
a
capitalism
is
built
on,
you
know,
constant
growth.
And
so

(33:15):
we
in
many
ways,
I
think
we're
adjusting
our
economies
so
that
it
feels
like
we're
still
living
in
a
time
when
there's
not
a
slots
for
everyone
where
we're
constantly
adjusting
to
where
we're
at
maximum
capacity
for
growth
at
all
times.
So
our
universities
only
have
a
certain
number
of
slots
if,
if
they
get
more
students,

(33:35):
they'll
hire
a
professor.
But
if
there's
not
enough
students,
they'll
fire
professors.
So
there's
always
just
not
quite
enough
classes
for
the
students
to
be
in,
which. 5900 00:33:44,339 --> 00:00:00,-01 Eric:
Is
why
there's
always
a
line
at
the
supermarket. 5910 00:33:46,559 --> 00:00:00,-01 Dr. Josh Stout:
It's
why
there's
always
a
line
of
the
supermarket,
why
there's
always
a
lot,
you
know,
they
overbook
the
airplane
tickets,
everything.
So
everything
about
capitalism

(33:56):
is
designed
to
get
you
at
that
sort
of
maximum
and
a
little
bit
beyond
that. 5953 00:34:00,569 --> 00:00:00,-01 Eric:
So
that
100
and
102%. 5959 00:34:03,059 --> 00:00:00,-01 Dr. Josh Stout:
Exactly.
So
everything
is
just
a
little
bit
stressed.
But
this
means
that
we
are
constantly
feeling
like
we
have
a
few
too
many
people.
And
so
we're
we're
adjusting
our
population
and
down

(34:16):
because
of
that
in
a
rational
manner.
As
individuals,
we're
having
fewer
babies,
we're
deciding
we
do
we
don't
have
a
big
enough
house,
we
don't
have
enough
income
in
how
am
I
going
to
send
these
kids
to
school?
All
of
these
things
we
say,
well,
I'm
going
to
stop
at
one
or
two,
and
that's
enough
because
we
don't
have
a
lot
of
options.
If
we

(34:36):
had
more
babies,
the
whole
family
would
be
poorer
and
not
succeed
and
it
would
be
very,
very
difficult.
It's
not
impossible,
but
it
would
be
much,
much
more
difficult.
And
so
these
are
rational
choices
we
are
making.
And
so
I
wanted
to
relate
this
to
both
saving
the
world
and
spoiling
our
children.
That's
what
I
sort
of
mentioning
at
the
beginning.
So

(34:56):
what
happens
when
you
have
fewer
children?
One,
you
put
more
resources
into
them.
Now
some
of
these
are
rational
resources.
See,
I
discovered
when
my
first
child
was
being
going
going
up
and
trying
to
get
into
schools
that
she
couldn't
get
into
the
the
grammar
school
of

(35:16):
her
choice
because
she
didn't
have
enough
of
a
resume
at
the
age
of
five.
And
so
I
realized
that
I
needed
to
start
putting
these
kids
in
programs,
getting
them
documented
their
activities
so
that
they
could
get
into
the
high
school
they
needed
to
get
into
so
that
they
could
then
get
into
the
right
college.
They
needed
to
get
into
it.

(35:37):
I
needed
to
start
scheduling
their
lives
so
they
stop.
We
talk
about
where
we
overschedule
our
kids
lives
is
necessary.
If
you
don't
do
it,
bad
things
will
happen.
You
can't
just
let
your
kids
go
free
range
on
the
street
because
then
I
won't
have
documentation
that
they
learned
a
skill. 6293 00:35:53,709 --> 00:00:00,-01 Eric:
It
doesn't
feel
right. 6298 00:35:55,559 --> 00:00:00,-01 Dr. Josh Stout:
Yeah,
and

(35:57):
that's
one
side
of
it.
So
we're
we're
constantly
over
supervising
and
overscheduling
our
children.
The
next
thing
is
we're
worried
about
them
now
that
we
have
fewer
children
and
they're
not
dying
at
the
age
of
five
or
before
the
age
of
five.
We
are
constantly
watching
them
and
making
sure
we
have
covers
on
the
outlets
and
making
sure
the
babies
are
not
falling
in
the
well
and
this
kind
of
things. 6375 00:36:17,309 --> 00:00:00,-01 Eric:
We're

(36:17):
not
having
six. 6380 00:36:18,449 --> 00:00:00,-01 Dr. Josh Stout:
Kids
because
we're
not
having
six
kids.
It's
not
that
the
people
who
had
six
kids
didn't
love
their
babies,
but
now
when
you
only
have
one
or
two
of
them,
it's
absolutely
rational
to
spend
all
of
your
time
watching
them
to
make
sure
they're
okay. 6428 00:36:29,699 --> 00:00:00,-01 Eric:
And
if
you
had
six
babies,
did
you
have
time
to
cover
the
outlets? 6443 00:36:32,699 --> 00:00:00,-01 Dr. Josh Stout:
Didn't
have
time
for
any
of
this
stuff.
Exactly.
It
wasn't
that
we
didn't
love
our
children
in
previous
generations.

(36:38):
It's
just
that
we
didn't
have
the
time
and
resources
to
all
of
our
time
and
resources
to
them. 6483 00:36:43,739 --> 00:00:00,-01 Eric:
Some
of
the
previous
generations
might
not
have
loved
their
kids,
but. 6496 00:36:46,919 --> 00:00:00,-01 Dr. Josh Stout:
Well,
it's
certainly
changed
things
a
lot.
Yes.
You
know,
the
the
the
the
the
what
appears
to
us
today
as
negligent.
Only
30
years
ago,
for

(36:58):
example,
or
40
years
ago
was
was
completely
normal. 6533 00:37:03,029 --> 00:00:00,-01 Eric:
Was
normal. 6536 00:37:03,629 --> 00:00:00,-01 Dr. Josh Stout:
Right.
And
now
and
now
older
generations
look
at
us
and
say,
why
are
you
spoiling
your
kids
so
much?
And
this
is
something
that
is
is
absolutely
predicted
by
evolutionary
theory
that
when
you
have
fewer
kids,
you're
going
to
be
spending
way
more

(37:18):
energy
on
them,
spend
more
time
looking
at
them,
more
time
with
them,
and
you're
going
to
like
it.
We
enjoy
spending
time
with
our
children
because
evolution
has
programmed
us
to
animals
that
didn't
didn't
produce
children
very
well.
And
so
any
time
you
have
extra
resources,
you're
going
to
want
to
give
it
to
your
kids.
Any
time
you
have

(37:38):
extra
time,
you're
going
to
want
to
give
it
to
your
kids.
People
with
one
kid
do
know. 6662 00:37:42,449 --> 00:00:00,-01 Eric:
You're
saying
this
is
evolution
narrowly
driven,
this. 6671 00:37:45,029 --> 00:00:00,-01 Dr. Josh Stout:
Is
evolutionary
driven.
If
you
have
one
child,
you're
not
going
to
give
it.
You're
not
going
to
have
twice
the
time
as
if
you
had
two
children.
You're
going
to
have
maybe
a
tiny
bit
extra
time
if
you
had
two
children,
because
you're
going
to
take
all
that
time,
you're
going
to
put
it
into
your
one
kid
because

(37:58):
that
is
where
all
your
evolutionary
eggs
are.
That's
your
one
basket.
And
so
everything
you're
going
to
do
is
going
to
be
you're
going
to
do,
you
know,
trying
to
mitigate
risks.
You're
going
to
try
and
give
them
as
much
opportunities
as
you
can.
You're
going
to
give
them
as
many
skills
that
they
can
put
on
a
piece
of
paper
for
a
resume. 6799 00:38:15,179 --> 00:00:00,-01 Eric:
In
other
words,
you're
not
going
to
say
go
and
play
on
the
street. 6814 00:38:17,669 --> 00:00:00,-01 Dr. Josh Stout:
You're
not
going
to
say
go

(38:18):
and
play
it
on
the
street,
kid.
And
so
the
exact
same
things
that
we
are
now
complaining
about
in
our
children
are
what
our
society
drives
us
to
do
for
rational,
evolutionary
reasons,
because
there
really
isn't
another
choice,
but
putting

(38:38):
as
much
as
you
can
into
your
children
and
and
and
slowing
down
the
number
of
children
you're
having.
So
we're
now
entering
into
this
this
this
demographic
collapse,
but
we
have
avoided
a
malthusian
disaster.
So
we
have
not
poisoned
our
world.
We
have
not
used
up
all
of
our
resources.
And
we're
not
going

(38:58):
to
now
we're
still
having
problems
with
global
warming.
This
is
a
malthusian
crisis. 6933 00:39:02,069 --> 00:00:00,-01 Eric:
Climate
change,
not
having
poisoned
our. 6940 00:39:06,629 --> 00:00:00,-01 Dr. Josh Stout:
Climate
change
absolutely
is.
The
population
of
the
world
is
still
going
up.
But
the
places
where
we
are
rapidly
reducing
our
population
growth
are
the
places
that
produce
the
most

(39:18):
carbon.
And
so
we
are
actually
transitioning
faster
than
we
expected
to
to
a
carbon
neutral
at
least
transportation
world.
The
developing
the
developed
world
is
is
getting
rid
of
our
gas
cars
much
faster
than
we
thought
we
were
going
to.
And
we're
actually

(39:38):
really
getting
to
some
of
our
our
carbon
goals
in
terms
of
just
burning
fuels
for
transportation.
Unfortunately,
this
is
not
happening
in
our
factories
quite
as
fast.
Things
like
cement
and
aluminum
are
just
tremendously
energy
expensive
and
there's
not
a
lot
of
ways
around
that.
And
because

(39:59):
the
way
capitalism
is
designed
to
have
constant
growth,
we've
actually
programmed
in
constant
growth,
even
when
we
have
a
flat
to
declining
population.
And
so
this
this
sort
of
cultural
I
resource
I
squandering,
I
guess
is
one
way
to
think
about
it
is

(40:19):
going
to
be
driving
the
the
the
increase
in
carbon
use
for
some
time.
But
overall
as
a
planet
we
now
have
some
breathing
room
because
we've
lowered
our,
our,
our
reproductive
rate.
And
this
is
entirely
based
on
education
of
women
by
having
women
in
high
school
and
in
university,

(40:40):
they
are
not
having
babies
because
when
you're
in
a
class,
you're
not
having
babies.
I
mean,
some
of
my
students
are
I've
had
students
raise
their
hand
and
say,
I'm
pregnant
right
now,
but
it's
very
rare.
Most
of
my
students
are
nodding.
Most
of
my
students
are
female.
This
is
something
we
can
talk
about
at
a
later
time,
that
men
are
not

(41:00):
going
to
college
the
same
way
women
are. 7235 00:41:03,239 --> 00:00:00,-01 Eric:
Okay,
that's
new
and
interesting
to
me. 7243 00:41:05,969 --> 00:00:00,-01 Dr. Josh Stout:
Later.
Later
thing
on.
Yeah,
later
thing.
So
yeah,
most
of
my
students
are
female,
most
of
them
are
in
their
twenties
or,
you
know,
late
teens,
early
twenties,
and
they
are
not
having
babies.
And
this
is
prime
reproductive
times.
And
so

(41:20):
I
am
I
am
looking
at
whole
cohorts
of
women
who
are
not
reproducing.
And
this
is
absolutely
what
is
driving
the
the
the
the
collapse
in
reproduction
in
in
the
developed
world.
And
I
think
overall,
this
is
a
good
thing.
It
will
cause
problems
for
us
economically.
And
we
need
to
start
thinking
about
how
we
can
have
an
economics
not

(41:40):
based
on
maximum
production
growing
all
the
time
with
a
constant,
you
know,
winnowing
of
slots,
longer
lines,
fewer
seats
on
the
airplane,
all
of
these
kinds
of
things.
And
so
we
need
to
figure
that
out.
But
that's
a
separate
issue.
These
women
are
not
having
babies.
It's
going
to
save
the
world.
And
it's
directly

(42:01):
educating
women.
And
so
I
ask
my
classes,
think
about
your
grandparents.
How
many
how
many
babies
did
they
have?
Think
about
your
parents.
What
when
did
they
have
their
first
babies
and
then
think
about
you.
How
old
are
you
now?
When
are
you
planning
to
have
kids?
And
so
in
my
parents
generation,
a
lot
of
the
people
were
having
babies
at
you

(42:21):
know,
in
the
age
of,
you
know,
20,
25
in
that
range,
their
parents
might
have
been
even
younger.
Not
everyone,
but
and
they
would
have
had
five
or
six
kids. 7503 00:42:33,149 --> 00:00:00,-01 Eric:
You
know,
it's
fascinating
because
you're
talking
about
having
these
conversations
with
your
students
now
in
the
United
States.
When
I
was
in
Korea,
in
the

(42:41):
in
the
mid
nineties,
teaching
high
school
students,
they
were
already
telling
me
that
they
were
planning
on
going
to
school,
they
were
going
to
go
to
college
and
not
going
to
have
children
until
later.
And
now
30
years
later,
you're
telling
me
that
they've
dropped
below
one? 7579 00:42:57,539 --> 00:00:00,-01 Dr. Josh Stout:
Yes,
they're
less.
Less
than
half
of
their
population
in
the
next
generation. 7593 00:43:01,139 --> 00:00:00,-01 Eric:
Is
this
is. 7597 00:43:02,219 --> 00:00:00,-01 Dr. Josh Stout:

(43:02):
It's
tremendous
and
it's
and
it's
it's
it's
going
to
save
the
world.
But
we're
also
in
for
a
big
issue. 7619 00:43:08,639 --> 00:00:00,-01 Eric:
Economy
is
going
to
take
a
tremendous
a. 7628 00:43:10,559 --> 00:00:00,-01 Dr. Josh Stout:
Tremen
hit. 7631 00:43:11,489 --> 00:00:00,-01 Eric:
Make
what
we
need
to
make.
We
can't
do
right. 7642 00:43:13,949 --> 00:00:00,-01 Dr. Josh Stout:
So
we
need
to
have
the
people
in,
let's
say,
Africa
who
are
actually
at
higher
reproductive
rates,
come
to
our
countries
and

(43:22):
help
us
produce
things
and
be
great.
It
would
be
great.
I
don't
I
don't
see
a
lot
of
history
in
Europe
or
America
of
welcoming
people
from
Africa.
But
Ghana
right
now
has
a
reproductive
rate
of
four,
whereas,
you
know,
Korea
has
8.8.
So
you
can
see
where
the
people
in
the
world
are
going
to
be
coming
from.
And
we
have

(43:42):
not
prepared
for
this
in
any
way.
Again,
a
separate
issue.
Yeah,
but
I
wanted
to
point
out
that
this
this
education
of
women
is
is
is
brand
new.
It
has
happened
in
the
last
generation.
We
can
see
it
happening
in
real
time.
So
people
who
are
still
alive
have
had
grand
kids

(44:02):
where
they
have
five
or
six
grandkids
and
they're
looking
at
their
grandkids
and
their
grandkids
are
having
one
or
two
at
most.
And
so
this
is
an
intergenerational
change
that
is
happening
in
real
time
right
now.
The
last
hundred
years
have
been
tremendous.
The
last
50
years
have
been
tremendous.
So
I've
had
two
students
talking
about

(44:22):
their
grandmothers
who
had
their
mothers
when
they
were
12.
One
was
a
indigenous
woman
in
Colombia,
another
one
was
a
Pashtun
in
Afghanistan.
And
their
mothers
had
them
when
they
were
something
like
18
or
19.
And
so
here
they
are
in
graduate
school
at
the
age

(44:43):
of
21,
22,
no
babies
with
a
50
year
old
grandmother
saying,
where's
the
babies?
I
want
I
want
my
great
grandchildren.
And
they're
they're
they're
so
proud
of
themselves
to
be
succeeding
and
to
be
in
college.
And
they
know
they're
not
having
babies
early.
And
this
is
absolutely

(45:03):
a
conscious
choice.
And
they're
having
a
there's
a
generational
split
between
between
them
and
their
and
their
grandmothers
who
don't
understand
why
they
don't
have
six
babies
already.
And
this
this
is
something
that
is
happening
right
now.
And
I
think,
you
know,
that's
sort
of
an
extreme
version
of
it.
But
we
see
it
in,
say,

(45:23):
you
know,
the
conflicts
with
the
baby
boomers
talking
to
us
all
about
how
we're
raising
our
children
wrong
and
we're
spoiling
them.
And
they
they
they
they
think
we're
we're
doing
a
terrible
job
because
we're
spending
all
of
our
resources
to
to
raise
our
children
and
to
keep
them
safe.
And
they
think
that
this
is
going
to
make
us
us
weaker
as
a
species,
softer.
But
they
don't
understand
is
that

(45:43):
we're
looking
at
an
evolutionary
change
that
is
happening
really
rapidly.
And
it's
because
of
the
way
the
world
has
changed.
We're
not
on
farms
anymore.
We're
not
working
in
factories
even
anymore.
We
are
working
in
cubicles
and
to
be
a
cubicle
worker
you
need
you're
a
knowledge
worker.
And
that
knowledge
worker
is
based
on
a
very
limited
number
of
paths
for
success,

(46:03):
often
through
universities.
And
the
best
way
to
do
really
well
is
to
have
a
lot
of
resources
from
an
early
age.
So
you
can
get
into
that
grammar
school,
you
need
to
get
into
this,
you
can
get
into
the
right
high
schools,
you
can
get
into
the
right
college,
so
you
can
get
a
job
that
will
give
you
the
resources
so
that
by
the
time
you're,
say,
in
your
mid-thirties,
you
might
have
enough
resources
to
have
a
child. 8220 00:46:23,729 --> 00:00:00,-01 Eric:
You

(46:23):
are
you
are
describing
deeply
based
in
class
divisions
that
deeply. 8233 00:46:28,349 --> 00:00:00,-01 Dr. Josh Stout:
Baked
in
class
divisions.
And
the
the
sort
of
the
way
out
of
these
things
is
to
have
all
of
what
I've
been
talking
about,
two
parent
households
working
towards
a
university
success.
And
what
do
we
see

(46:44):
in
in
in
areas
of
of
say,
the
United
States
where
family
dynamics
are
collapsing
is
is
we
see
a
lot
of
issues.
And
so,
you
know,
there's
there
is
there
is
there
is
a
lot
of
rural
areas
that
are
no
longer
farmers
and
they're
no
longer
miners.
And
there
is
not
a
lot
of
other
industries

(47:04):
there
for
them.
And
they
end
up
with
us
single
parent
families.
They
they
have
fewer
options.
It's
a
lot
harder
to
go
to
university
from
a
situation
like
that.
And
this
has
been
understood
for
a
long
time
as,
oh,
no,
poor
people
reproduce
too
fast.

(47:24):
So
the
Victorians
were
worried.
They
thought
that
all
of
these
people
moving
into
the
city
were
going
to
make
what
they
called
the
marching
morons
to,
to
to
use
a
really
un-PC
phrase
that
poor
people
reproduce
too
fast
and
they
were
going
to,
you
know,
in
our
in
our
meritocracy,
they
were

(47:44):
going
to
swamp
the
meritocracy
with
I
too
many
idiots.
So,
you
know,
there's
that
there
is
the
Idiocracy
movie
where
only
the
poor
people
are
having
large
families
and
smart
people
are
having
small
families.
But
this
is
flatly
not
true.
We
have
not
had
enough
time
to
evolve
AI

(48:04):
actual
intelligence
differences
between
classes.
We
do
not
actually
live
in
a
meritocracy.
A
lot
of
the
people
who
succeed,
yeah,
they're
often
smart,
but
what
they've
also
had
all
of
these
resources
given
to
them
from
an
early
age
advantages.
And
so
all
of
these
things
have
have
given
them
what
they
needed
to
have
to
succeed
from
birth.
If
you
don't
get

(48:24):
that,
it's
a
lot
harder
to
succeed.
It
doesn't
mean
you're
stupid.
So
this
is
no
longer
anything
to
do
with
genes,
nothing
to
do
with
anything
to
do
with
heredity
factors.
This
is
just
a
societal
one.
So
it's
very
much.
Did
you
win
the
lottery
at
birth
or
did
you
lose
the
lottery
at
birth? 8603 00:48:42,269 --> 00:00:00,-01 Eric:
The
other
thing
that
that
speaks
to
is
that
it
could
very

(48:45):
well
be
fixed
like
this
is. 8622 00:48:46,589 --> 00:00:00,-01 Dr. Josh Stout:
These
are
things
that
can
be
fixed.
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
If
we
if
we
about
another
way
to
do
our
society.
And
it
seems
as
though
because
we're
in
this
transition
period,
we
might
be
moving
into
a
world
where
we
could
start
to
fix
this.
Well,
we
could
start
to
look
at
ways
to
have
resources
spread
a
bit,
a
little
bit
more
egalitarian
through
our
society. 8690 00:49:05,129 --> 00:00:00,-01 Eric:

(49:05):
Start
talking
about. 8694 00:49:05,969 --> 00:00:00,-01 Dr. Josh Stout:
Politics.
No,
I
don't
want
to
talk
about
politics
at
all.
But,
you
know,
these
these
these
things,
as
I
was
mentioning,
that
the
tension
and
competition
is
built
into
the
way
we
work
as
a
capitalist
system.
Yes.
I'm
not
saying
that
capitalism
isn't
a
great
way
of
producing
resources.
It
has
produced
more
resources
than
any
other
system
out
there,

(49:25):
but
it
tends
to
not
be
really
good
at
dividing
those
resources
equally
and
so
just
like
a
silverback
gorilla
gets
all
of
the
mating
opportunities,
and
unless
you're
the
biggest
gorilla,
you
get
zero
mating
opportunities.
We've
worked
ourselves
into
a
sort
of
winner
take
all
society,
which
is
extremely
stressful
for
all
of
us,
and
where
we

(49:45):
are
forced
to
put
extra
resources
into
our
offspring
in
the
hope
that
they
will
become
that
silverback
gorilla
spoiling. 8836 00:49:51,749 --> 00:00:00,-01 Eric:
Our
kids,
save
our
earth,
save
the
world.
I
see
how
educating
women
will
save
the
world. 8854 00:49:55,769 --> 00:00:00,-01 Dr. Josh Stout:
Well,
essentially,
this
is
all
part
of
the
same
thing,
is
that
all
of
these
resources
that
we're
putting
into
our
children
is
part
of
a
process
of
having
them
reproduce
later.
We're
keeping
them
in
school
longer.

(50:05):
We're
not
having
them
have
babies
at
the
age
of
15
or
16.
They're
they're
they're
they're
waiting
until
their
thirties,
so
they're
twice
as
long
2
to
2
reproductive
age. 8924 00:50:16,829 --> 00:00:00,-01 Eric:
So
you're
saying
this
isn't
something
that
we
should
have
a
judgment
on
this
is
that
this
is
an
evolutionary
change
happening
in
front
of
our
eyes. 8952 00:50:23,039 --> 00:00:00,-01 Dr. Josh Stout:
It's
happening
in
front
of
our
eyes.
And
we
we

(50:26):
keep
arguing
against
it
and
say
we
shouldn't
spoil
our
children.
We
need
to
figure
out
how
to
have
maybe
more
babies
because
we're
looking
at
a
reproduction,
at
a
demographic
collapse.
At
the
same
time,
how
are
we
going
to
deal
with
a
world
with
sort
of
limited
resources
and
allocating
these
resources?
And
we
really
haven't
as
a
society
realized
that
these
are
all
part

(50:46):
of
a
single
thing
that's
happening
for
essentially
reproductive
evolutionary
reasons
that
are
where
we
value
our
reproductive
choices.
We
like
not
having
more
babies,
we
like
not
having
more
babies
because
it
allows
us
to
give
more
attention
to
our
babies,
which
we
enjoy,
right?
Evolution
tends
to
reward
things
that
give

(51:06):
you
evolutionary
success.
And
so
we
we
will
automatically
give
all
our
time
and
energy
and
all
of
our
let's
keeping
our
baby
safe
energy
into
our
very
few
babies
that
we
now
have. 9117 00:51:17,459 --> 00:00:00,-01 Eric:
So
you're
saying
go
ahead,
spoil
that
child
and
enjoy
it. 9129 00:51:21,239 --> 00:00:00,-01 Dr. Josh Stout:
A
little
bit
of
that.
And
also,
you
know,
let
yourself
off
the
hook.
This
is
this
has
been
a
sort
of
theme
I've
been
trying

(51:26):
to
work
on,
is
that
a
lot
of
things
that
are
programmed
into
us,
we
then
feel
guilty
about. 9175 00:51:32,439 --> 00:00:00,-01 Eric:
Yes. 9177 00:51:33,329 --> 00:00:00,-01 Dr. Josh Stout:
And
I'm
saying
don't
feel
guilty
about
what
you
have
no
choices
about.
You
know,
if
you
are
over
over
programming
your
your
child's
childhood
and
you're
wondering,
you
know,
because
they're
doing
so
much

(51:46):
little
league,
are
they
having
a
real
childhood?
You
don't
have
a
lot
of
choice
in
that.
They
won't
get
into
the
right
high
school
unless
you
do
that.
The
will.
If
I
don't
sign
up
my
daughter
for
fencing,
that
would
have
been
a
problem
for
her
getting
into
a
university.
So
she
needs
all
of
these
things.
Yeah.
So
anyway,
I
this
this
is,
I
guess

(52:06):
part
of
my
my
overall
project
to
say
a
lot
of
what
we're
programmed
for
due
to
do
we
then
feel
guilty
about
and
we
need
to
start
thinking
about
letting
ourselves
off
the
hook
to
a
certain
extent
and
not
yelling
at
each
other
for,
for
doing
things
wrong.
Just
like
I
try
and
let
previous

(52:26):
generations
off
the
hook
to
a
certain
extent
for
their
negligence.
This
is
this
is
how
they
were
raised
because
it
worked
well.
It
worked
well
for
them
and
it
worked
well
for
the
last
10,000
years.
And
so
we
really
are
seeing
a
significant
change
in
the
way
we
live
right
now.
It's
not
our
imagination. 9395 00:52:44,609 --> 00:00:00,-01 Eric:
Fascinating. 9397 00:52:45,419 --> 00:00:00,-01 Dr. Josh Stout:
All
right.
So
that's
why
I
want
to
leave
it. 9408 00:52:47,369 --> 00:00:00,-01 Eric:

(52:47):
Excellent.
Well,
thank
you
so
much,
Josh.