April 25, 2024 • 51 mins
In this PostdocTransformation Show episode, Candice Zarrei from Pharmuni shares #FutureOfWork opportunities in careers in the pharmaceutical industry. The interview includes advice on employability skills, the importance of continuous learning and personal branding, and opportunities within startups and SMEs.
Additionally, it discusses ethical considerations, misconceptions, and essential skills for success in a corporate pharmaceutical and medtech career, featuring insights on Pharmuni's recruitment tool.
From an HR & upskilling perspective, Candice also shares inspiration for students in industrial and occupational psychology, highlighting Pharmuni's University Partnership Program and the collaboration with universities to bridge the gap between academic and industry needs.
Listen to this 51 min episode, as Candice Zarrei, Pharmuni Group Manager, speaks with Prof. Dr. Eleonore Soei-Winkels about the exciting opportunities in the pharma industries. Capitalize on our chapter markers as needed.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:01):
Postdoc Transformation,postdoc transformation.
Postdoc transformation.
Invest in your PostdocTransformation.
(00:23):
Welcome to the seasonal show forscientists leaping into business.
In every sponsored episode, we are happyto recommend employers of choice for you.
Make sure to check your readinessto leap out of science with us for
free, as linked in the show notes.
For your career transition, weoffer customized career transition
e courses and memberships, also atgraduate schools all over the world.
(00:46):
Maybe yours too.
And if your university isn't yet ourcustomer, enroll in your free email
course for career transition madesimple as linked in the show notes.
I'm your host, Professor Dr.
Eleonore Soei-Winkels with myteam who is rooting for you.
And let's build yourPostdocTransformation with this episode.
As a seasoned professor of industrialand occupational psychology in Germany,
(01:09):
and knowing what bachelor and masterstudents learn in theory, I have to
recognize that companies often complainabout fresh graduates lacking workplace
preparation and project management skills.
And I haven't been in academia only,so I can also testament to when I
leaped into my first role as an ITanalyst at an international grocery
(01:30):
discounter right after my PhD inneuroscience in 2008, I was literally
overwhelmed and, I had to learn howto survive in the corporate world.
That was quite a cultureclash coming from academia.
So, on top of that, I had tolearn what was needed being a
good IT analyst in business.
(01:50):
So, if I could go back in time, Iwould disentangle these learning
curves and luckily, times have changed.
Now, I recommend Pharmuni e-courses whichyou can do before leaping into business.
So, if you are a master, bachelor studenteven, or a scientist without professional
(02:11):
industry and business experience, Irecommend to level up your employability
with Pharmuni e-courses and certificatesin for example, cultural sensitivity, time
management, team collaboration, emotionalintelligence, supplier management,
business communication skills, preparingfor job interviews, and maybe even
(02:33):
agile principles and project management.
Taking these courses will prepare you foran international corporate career, just
like mine, before you onboard into yourfirst role, so you can hit the ground
running in your role specifications.
If you are a scientist with a STEMresearch background who wants to
leap into the biotech, medtech, lifescience, pharmaceutical companies, I
(02:57):
recommend the Pharmuni e-courses andcertificates in pharmacovigilance,
compliance, and quality assurance.
These are all courses for bothnovices and seasoned professionals.
which will boost your industry excellence.
And best of all, it's not just in theory.
No, you get a certificate and all thejob qualifications are endorsed by
(03:20):
the esteemed ISO 9001 2015 CertifiedZamann Pharma Support GmbH in Germany.
And for this episode of ourPostdocTransformation Show for
scientists leaping into business, I'mexcited to welcome Candice Quinn Zarei,
who is the PharmUni Group Manager.
(03:40):
She's Australian, living in Germany,and that's why you will listen to
a different voice in this show.
She's all about bringing a new wayto upskill, qualify, recruit, and
retain talent in the pharma industry.
And that's why I'm so happy to haveyou in my show, Candice, not only
for my PostdocTransformers, but alsofor my own students of industrial
(04:03):
and occupational psychology.
So, without further ado, dearCandice, the stage is all yours.
Tell us what is your role atPharmuni apart from being the group
manager because I've seen you allover the place in media as well.
And yeah, the stage is yours.
Well, firstly, thank you somuch for having me today.
I've been really excited to talk to youyourself, knowing your experiences in
(04:27):
the industry of coming from tech and alsoas a teacher for organizational behavior
and psychology and HR, which as some bigthings that we talk about here at farm
uni, but for me, my name is Candice andyes, I originally come from Australia and
moved to Germany about five years ago tostep into Zamann pharma support where.
(04:47):
I originally was doing businessimprovement and project management.
So looking at optimization of thebusiness and really very quickly
stepped into the world of learningand development and training.
So taking, what we can do hereand how we can upskill and
qualify our own internal teams.
Even though we were very small,four or five years ago, we had a
(05:09):
very small team and have grown quitequickly, over the past few years.
And yes, I do quite a lot of roles at
Pharmuni
aside from being the product owner,which is the person responsible for
making sure that we have a really greated tech platform that is all centered
around The end users, customer anduser centric designed, but also making
(05:34):
sure we have really great e learningcontent that has learning objectives at
the center of everything we do so thatwhen you get qualified and you get the
certificates from us, they show that youcan actually do something at the end.
I'm involved in the social media.
I do the interviews.
I do podcasts, really kind of the fullscope, but that's really a great part
(05:54):
of what I do and being essentially inthe startup arm of what we do is you
have to have multiple different hats.
So, my goal is to tell you guyshow you can get into the industry
and really kind of set yourselffor success at the end of the day.
Oh, that's music in my ears really becauseI really try to sort of like help my
(06:16):
students to embrace all kinds of rolesand not just to stick into one role.
At the beginning of the career, Ialways think that you shouldn't just
drill down, but instead you shouldopen up and try all different kinds
of roles, because you'll never knowwhat the future will hold for you.
The more versatile you are,the better your chances are
(06:37):
to move up the career ladder.
Was also probably my case as wellis, I have worked in so many diverse
fields, within the realm of projectmanagement and business improvement,
but I've worked in finance, I'veworked in engineering, I've worked in
IT, I've worked in highly regulatedindustries like workers compensation,
(06:57):
pharmaceuticals and life sciences.
And you really do find that the moreskills you have, being kind of like
that multi skilled employee, you havemultidisciplinary approaches to what you
do can really set you up for being able tomove into so many different career paths.
You might start in one direction andthen with the skills that you gain, find
(07:17):
that you really enjoy something else.
And then you can kind of divert intothat path and then just branch off
into wherever you can go from there.
All right, that's a reel in itself alreadyabout transferable skills and I will
probably dissect that and post that alsoon social media because I really do think
that the more you can approach thingsfrom multiple angles, the more you are
(07:40):
valuable and bring something to the table.
All right, so looking at the multipleangles that we have already talked about.
For the pharmaceutical industry, whichof the disciplines are relevant or is
it all industries or all disciplines?
What do you think?
Is there a general educational scientificbackground that is a booster for a
(08:04):
career in pharmacy in pharma industry?
I think, you definitely have to start withyour technical scientific capabilities,
because when we're talking about thepharma and medtech industry, you have to
have those core academic competencies,because if you're doing research and
development into drugs, or if you'relooking at mechanical engineering for
(08:25):
prosthetics, et cetera, you have to havethat technical background, and that's
where the higher education and academicsetting really plays an important part.
At the same time, when you're steppinginto the world of finishing academia and
into the business of working for a companythat actually then wants to make and sell
(08:46):
these products, and how you can contributeto that for yourself and for the
communities is you do then need to factorin, The modern world that we now live
in, it was very globalized industries.
We have supply chains that runfrom Europe into South Africa,
into Canada, into South America.
(09:07):
And in regards to that, you needto now be a multi skilled employee.
And this is something that I was recentlyresearching and looking about is, last
year, we had a really big focus on AIand the introduction of new technologies.
We have a need to be very responsiveto global pandemics very quickly, as we
(09:31):
saw, probably from 2019, 2020 onwards.
Therefore, we need people who are not justtrained in probably traditional research
methods, but also really up to speedvery quickly on new research methods.
And then also we need peoplewho are looking at things
like personalized medicine.
(09:52):
So we have to start putting peopleat the center of all the designing of
products and services in the industry.
So, when you're talking about, isthere one thing that people need to
further themselves in the industry?
I would say there's a core and that'sprobably going to be centered around
what they're actually doing, whether it'sa drug development, research, if it's
(10:15):
to do with medical devices, but there'sall the other things that you need.
You need project management.
You need to be a great leader.
You need to understand documentation,and you can do that through the further
education and training that you mightnot be able to access in academic setting
because professors are very, very busy.
(10:36):
They have a lot going on, they have theircore curriculum that they need to teach.
And then, you've got other peoplelike ourselves who try and come in and
kind of support that process for them.
Yeah.
Candice, that's, that really isagain music in my ears because I
I also have humanities and socialsciences PhDs in my community, and
(10:58):
within the PostdocTransformers soI really do think that for project
management becoming a leader.
And, you know, working at theinterface between development, but
also bringing things to the market,sales and marketing, I think that
there is a place for social scientiststhrough qualitative research to
(11:19):
understand what is really needed.
On the individual level, instead ofjust the broader quantitative level.
So, that really is encouragingfor many disciplines.
And once you have determined yourreadiness to leap and want to transition
into business or industries, then youcan enroll in your free email course with
(11:43):
10 actionable, bingeable email lessonsuntil you start your job in business.
You'll get 10 emails like this.
Number one, how to leap out of science.
Number two, how to build yoursustainable LinkedIn profile.
Number three, how to readsocial media and network.
Number four, how to researchyour favorite jobs and employers.
(12:04):
Number five, how to do informationinterviews to get insights.
Number six, how to create yourcustomized applications with ChatGPT.
Number seven, how to prepare yourthesis from a business point of view.
Number eight, how to applyto your favorite employers.
Number nine, how to choosethe right job offer.
(12:24):
Number 10, how toprepare for your new job.
And, you already mentioned the pandemic.
Are there any other recent global eventsthat have an impact on the pharmaceutical
companies or pharmaceutical industries?
I think, , for the pharmaceuticalindustry in particular, there is a
(12:45):
really big shift, that we're seeingprobably in the last four to five years
and that's around personalized medicinesand patient centric approaches because
you see lots of things in the newswhere in certain regions of the world,
it's very expensive to buy medications,and the things that are really quite
(13:05):
essential for a person's health andsafety, whereas in other regions of the
world, these things are more accessible.
And I think this shift now is startingto change, whereas we're wanting
to now make sure that the industryglobally is more focused on making
sure they have people and communityat the center of what they do.
(13:28):
And that really then falls into howwe then educate and train people.
Bringing up the leaders of tomorrowto have quality and patient
safety at the center of everythingthat they create, which means
that we need leadership skills.
We need people from different disciplinesmoving into the industry, and that's
why you're seeing probably as well inemployment trends in pharma and med
(13:52):
tech, there's a really big shift forhuman resources, is a really big shift
for marketing and sales is a really bigshift for IT Which is a very big up and
coming role, not just for developers,but people who can lead and manage IT
teams and how you integrate the world ofagile development processes with a very
(14:14):
rigid quality management system approachand how you kind of connect these two
departments together, which is luckily,something we did very successfully here,
we worked very hard of integrating ourIT and quality management teams together.
So there's a really big shift in thestructures of companies, the different
(14:35):
roles, and that's all to facilitate morepeople centered approaches in regards
to creating medicines and devices thatreally, Improve the quality of life of
people and doing it in a way where it'scommunity focused and not profit focused.
That's great news.
The last bit, what you said about, it'snot just profit focus that really is
(14:59):
probably important for many scientistsbecause scientists like I, myself,
I didn't go into science becauseI wanted to earn a lot of money.
I mean, you are probably moreidealistic in the sense that
you want to cure people's.
diseases.
Do you want to help make the world better?
But I see a lot of scientists beingdismayed at the slowness in science in the
(15:24):
sense of, you know, you are researching oncancer and therapeutics and medications.
And then it's so slow that at the endof the PhD, nothing evolves out of that,
So, Candice, I want toswitch gears a little bit.
So, As I have now someonealso who is trained in HR.
(15:46):
What specific skills and experience,knowledge, or even certifications
are needed to be successful in acorporate career in pharma industry?
When we talk about corporate andwe talk about the different arms of
research and development, I thinkthat they're two different skill sets.
They have some overlapping, but theyare two very different skill sets.
(16:07):
So, when we're talking about the worldof corporate, from my perspective, and
also from my experiences of as well ofworking in a corporate world for many,
many years now, is you need to be anoutside the box thinker, you need to be a
great problem solver, and you need to becreative in that, you need to be a great
communicator, have leadership skills,and you also need to, in regards to your
(16:30):
communications, particularly if you arecoming from the technical side of things.
So, just say you're in researchand development, you might be
wanting to explain what you'redoing to this side of the business.
You need to do that in a way whereit's really easy to understand.
So, taking the technical jargon of whatyou might really easily understand and
(16:53):
translating that in a way that peoplein the board can understand, you might
have a project sponsor, you might havepeople who are sponsoring the funding
for your research and you need to explainthings in a way that are really easy for
them to understand, but also vice versa.
If you're working in the corporateworld, you might be in human resources.
(17:14):
You might be in management.
You might be doing strategic management.
You might be in other arms where you'redeciding where the business wants to
go and you need to communicate that ina way to your developers, whether it's
technology, pharmaceuticals or medtechin a way that they understand as well.
(17:37):
Remember, you are a postdoc transformer.
You are highly intelligent, welleducated, a bachelor, master.
And maybe you have already your doctorunder your belt, or you are a postdoc.
You are internationally experienced,fluent in English, a leader and
expert in your prior research field.
You're resilient, brilliant inadaptation and problem solving.
(18:00):
You are eager to bring in thetransferable and monetizable
skills needed in many countries.
To embrace the future and to become orremain an innovator in their markets.
And so, I would say the major skillsfor both, these arms, regardless if
(18:21):
it's corporate or the technical sideof things, is fabulous communication,
great leadership, great time management.
You need to be organized, organized,organized in this industry because it is
fast paced, and all of the companies,regardless of what size, if you're a
startup or a large corporate entity is,you always need to remain competitive.
(18:42):
So everything's fastpaced in the industry.
And then just probably one last skill thatI don't think a lot of people consider in
the industry, is that you need to be ableto also sell yourself in regards to you
need to sell the great things that you do.
(19:03):
So, if you're a tech person and you'rewanting to move up into more leadership
roles of quality assurance or getting intobusiness development, firstly, you need to
be able to communicate in a way that theseguys understand, but you need to be able
to say this is the great work I've done.
This is how it's benefited the business.
And this is how it's going to put you intothe eyes of people who make the decisions
(19:25):
about where you go in your career.
And also the same on the otherside as well, you want to
move up the corporate ladder.
You're in a junior role in HR.
You need to be able to show anddemonstrate, things that you've done
that have contributed to moving thebusiness in a positive direction.
Love it.
I really love it.
I mean, you've seen me laughing.
(19:46):
There are two things that you mentioned.
And one is this being able to translate.
Whatever you are conveying inyour message for the target group.
And I have been always preparing decisionpapers or presentations for the steering
board, but also I had to go down tosort of like the IT architects and
(20:08):
talk about their latest development.
And they were talking aboutnon functional, you know.
And it was like, arguablyimportant, but that's nothing
that I can present to the board.
So you have to find the balance, andto understand the gist of the things.
And that's really a skill thatwill help you survive and also
(20:31):
move up the career ladder.
And the other thing that you mentionedwas really about the selling aspect.
Many scientists think thatmarketing yourself into a
role and whatever, is cringe.
I can see myself beingalso dismayed about that.
But I had to learn that working atAccenture, the global consulting company.
(20:52):
And every year we had to campaignfor ourself in the sense of
what were my contributions?
Why were they important?
What did I do?
What made me excel in that role?
And how do I discern myself in thecompetition against the others?
And that was the best learningcurve that I could have ever
(21:12):
Mm
throughout.
You know, these two or three years inlearning that in the sense of what it
makes me stand out today is the abilityto say, yes, this is what I did, and this
is why it's helpful, and please share,
mm
And support my causes.
I think that everyone who wants tosucceed in corporate needs also
(21:35):
the mindset of an intrapreneur.
This entrepreneurial mindset in the senseof you need to craft yourself into a job.
You need to market yourself into a job.
Whatever skills you need for thenext position, it's your homework.
No one will teach you that it's yourhomework and you need to identify
whatever is needed and level up.
(21:56):
It's also like the element of personalbranding, and I think it's such
a key word in a lot of corporatecompanies I've worked for before,
and honestly, early in my career, Ididn't take it very seriously at all.
I thought, you know, mywork will speak for itself.
You know, at the end of the day,what I've produced is going to.
They're going to look at that andbe like, you're the one for the
(22:16):
job, and it doesn't work like that.
We, as human beings, when we talkabout organizational psychology,
people are very driven by, whatthey see, how you present yourself,
how you talk, how you network.
I really didn't understand networkingwhen I first stepped into the corporate
world, but it was really important.
(22:38):
Getting to know people, introducingmyself, telling them about my work,
spreading the word, and that becomesthen an impression that they have of you.
And then that combined with your workis really balancing out and setting the
stage for you to be someone that peoplecan look to when they're wanting to fill
(22:59):
a position or they're wanting to putyou in charge of a particular project
because they also know you a bit more from, outside of just your work perspective.
So, personal branding is super,super important that goes into how
you present yourself online, yourLinkedIn, what things you talk
about, how you engage with differentprojects and community activities.
(23:22):
We live in such a massive globalizedworld these days, and probably maybe 7,
8 years ago, it was only very new for HRto probably go online and see what people
are doing, but it's very, very common now.
And so it's really important thatwith your own personal branding,
whether it be in the company and thework that you do, and being able
(23:44):
to, to market yourself in that way.
You also have to remember that online,you've gotta market yourself the same.
Absolutely.
And it's also this external marketing isnot just confined to the online presence,
which is arguably easier, I would say,because you need to also stay, you know,
up to date with networking at industryevents that you have with suppliers,
(24:10):
So, once you want to have moreof the stakes, you have to also
level up and find key stakeholders,and these are not always online.
So, you have to also be able tonetwork and level up your networking.
(24:30):
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(24:51):
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And now back to the show.
So, when we switch gears again,Candice, what do you think are the most
(25:16):
important ethical considerations in thepharmaceutical companies or industries?
Because when I look at personalizedmedicine and the way it's
accessible through the differentregions that you have mentioned.
I think there's a multitude of ethicalconsiderations in the pharmaceutical
industry, starting at everythingfrom the focus of companies, you know,
(25:39):
why are you creating your products?
Are you creating them just to makemoney or are you actually creating
these products to benefit humanityand society as a general, which falls
into who can access these products?
Is this just a product that you'regoing to sell in your region?
Or are you going to make this a productthat's accessible, not just location
(26:01):
wise, but financially wise for people?
Because, in regards to the historicalcontext of the industry, and when
we're talking about money, thisis a trillion dollar industry.
When we put it all together, it is a greatway for companies to make a lot of money.
However, in the long run, when we'retalking about making sure that we
(26:25):
have people in the industry, we havean aging population and there's a
big gap in the aging population.
So, we have a lot of people who arein the baby boomer age groups that
are now setting into retirementand there's a massive age gap here.
And the younger people are notstepping into the industry because
they don't know that it's not justabout making money in the industry.
(26:48):
You have an opportunity to really make adifference, so, ethical concerns, I think
from a money side of things, we shouldreally make sure we keep a focus on so
that when we're bringing people into theindustry, we're educating them on what
they can do what intrinsic benefits thereare, as opposed to the extrinsic benefits.
And also, when we're talking aboutethical considerations for things
(27:11):
like AI, I'm a big believer in tech.
I love tech.
I build an edtech product.
I love AI.
I think that it has the opportunityto really benefit us in a way, whereas
we can do a whole heap of things,and not take so much time in order
to do them, which can free us up tobe more creative thinkers in ways.
(27:33):
But at the same time, I think we needto be careful with that because what we
feed into AI is what we get out of it.
And so I think, there's alwayspros and cons to these things.
So I think it just is a matter of whenwe're engaging with technology, it's
how we use the technology, how we feedinformation into the technology, and
(27:54):
then also making sure that the datasets we do give it are not just based
on a particular region or a particularphilosophy or ideology, that it is
really everyone globally feeding theinformation in so that it can learn,
and we can foster that learning in away that's really productive for us.
(28:14):
That really brings us to the term ofperson job fit, I also teach my students
to understand that your personality isimportant to consider and whatever your
values are, that should also drive yourapplications for this company or this
company, even within a given industrylike the pharmaceutical companies, right?
(28:37):
You need to understand what drivesyou and maybe you want to rather work
for a startup that is more alignedto your own vision of life, and all
your values that are important foryou instead of joining a big major
player who probably is very mature,who won't change because everything
has been working so fine for them.
(28:57):
So why should they change?
So, there are important considerationsfor your own job application and I
think that you have mentioned a lotof things that should be factored in.
You were talking also about opportunitiesand that sort of like rang a bell.
So, what are the biggest opportunitiesfor growth in the moment in your industry,
(29:22):
think the biggest opportunity is forfirstly IT, because there is a really
big boom now in regards to technologyin the industry, whether it's from
digitalization, um, you know, there'sstill a lot of companies that are
paper based, in today's modern world,which It's quite a surprise for me.
(29:44):
And so it could be as simple asdigitalization right through to
having a data analysts who are goingto manage all of your big data, IT
developers who are going to be creatingbespoke in house software, and that
then brings an opportunity for HR.
And the learning and developmentteams, because you then need to
(30:05):
start getting your head around,how to hire these different roles.
So, IT has a completely different,working mode, different principle.
When we're talking about agilemethodology, Scrum, Kanban, Waterfall,
all of these things, you know, some,people in recruitment might go, Oh, I
don't know what these are, or learningand development might go, now we need
(30:28):
to train maybe some of our managerswho are going to lead these teams in
these principles and values so that wecan integrate them into the business.
And so I think there's a lot ofopportunities for growth in IT.
I also think there's a really massivegrowth opportunity in regards to project
management, because we are now seeinglots and lots of startup companies in the
(30:52):
pharmaceutical and medtech environment.
I work with lots of them here inthe Hessen area, particularly down
in Heidelberg and what they reallyneed is people to manage these
projects to help them get theirproduct from research and development.
We've got a product.
We have it here now.
We have no idea what to do withit to get it on the market.
(31:12):
Okay.
How do we project manage this?
Okay.
We need people in qualitymanagement and quality assurance who
understand the regulatory nuancesof getting it into clinical trials
and then getting it packaged.
Okay.
If we need packaging, then weneed people in marketing and sales
who know how to package a marketfor the pharmaceutical industry.
(31:33):
Again, it's an opportunity for HRto start recruiting and bringing in
these new roles into the industry.
So probably IT, HR and training,learning and development, to be able
to bring new roles into the industry.
Which means they need to upskillthemselves in what these roles do.
How do we integrate them from anorganizational behavior sense in
(31:55):
merging these very flexible yetvery static departments and also
for marketing and sales as well.
There's a really big opportunityto work with smaller startup
companies who need that assistancein how to get their product from.
I have a great ideacan really help people.
(32:15):
So how do I now get it out into the world?
That's interesting.
And the technology to manufacture, is itchanging for pharmaceutical companies?
And also the manufacturing practice,are there any do's and don'ts and
how do you manage the manufacturing?
(32:36):
I would say, the first probably partof that when we're talking about GMP
and good manufacturing practices isthis is such an important topic that
requires not just initial training,but retraining consistently every year.
So, as a general compliance trainingin the industry and to also make sure
(32:56):
that the philosophy and principlesof quality at the center of everything
you do in GMP is always reiterated.
That involves whether you're doingtraining online, like with Pharmuni
and our GMP courses that we have inthere, and then those people then
being able to train other peoplewithin the business in that aspect.
I think GMP, doesn't really justencompass the process of as an
(33:22):
example, in a production facilitywhere you have a thing starting here
and going through the productionline, getting packaged and sent out.
GMP covers things like quality management.
It covers batch production.
It covers documentation.
It covers pharmacovigilance.
It covers compliance.
So, there's a whole different set of subtopics or focus areas within the kind of
(33:48):
realm of GMP and GMP in itself is a globalstandard, that's regulated, it's governed.
The FDA has some very clearregulations around that.
And that's why there's globalstandards set in place for that.
And then when we're talking about GMPin regards to technology changes, this
is where we again come into differenttopics like device qualification,
(34:12):
computer systems validation, andyou need to have staff who are
trained in these, and they might betrained in sub areas of these topics.
So, for computer systems validation,you might have the people who need to
write all the user requirements forthat, then to be tested and validated.
For device qualification, you might havesub areas within that where you need
(34:36):
to upskill people in how to request thedemand from the supply for the device.
You need to then do userspecification checking.
You then need someone to testit at the factory facility,
test it on site, validate it.
And then if the device comeswith software, again, you
need to do CSV with that.
So, as technology changes in theindustry, which we are going to see,
(35:00):
new practices coming into the industry.
In regards to testing, particularly withrobotics and such coming in, more so
than this manual hands on approach, we'reseeing a really big buildup of that.
You need to have in the world of GMP,device qualification, CSV, GMP practices,
(35:21):
compliance, supplier management, thefull kind of end to end life cycle.
Thank you for this detailed overviewof the supply chain, I love it because
I'll take this bit and show that to mystudents because I'm always talking about
the supply chain and that they have tounderstand who's next in line and after
that position so that they understand thevalue that is created, the value add, etc.
(35:46):
So, that is a great practical example.
So, thank you for that, Candice.
When we are talking to the variousdisciplines who are sort of at the
fence of applying to the pharmaceuticalcompanies because they don't bring
the specific core skillset thatyou have mentioned, what are the
biggest misconceptions about thepharmaceutical companies and industries?
(36:10):
I would say, the biggest misconception isthat the larger companies are where you
are going to get all your opportunities.
Because I would say particularly whenwe're talking about if you're wanting
to have an impact in regards to whatyou can develop, what you can't develop,
whether that's the medicines or it'sIT is, and this is also a mistake
(36:33):
I know I made early in my career isthat going for the larger companies,
because thinking that they have allthe resources, they have all the money.
This is where I'm going to be ableto excel because they're going
to give me those opportunities.
But the misconception there isthat, in larger companies, if
you're really fortunate enough to getplaced in a team that gives you that
(36:55):
freedom to do that, that's fabulous.
But the majority of the time youmight be placed in a team where
they just want you to do this thing.
They want you to processthis and that's it.
And that's because they have multiplelayers of decision makers, and your
decision making power might be downhere, whereas there's five levels up
in the hierarchy of someone makinga decision here strategically,
(37:18):
where they want that to go.
Whereas I found that, in the industry,there are so many SME companies, small
to medium enterprises, even startupcompanies where you could be placed
in a position or in a team where youhave more decision making power in
regards to what you're going to develop.
(37:39):
So, if you're talking about us at Pharmuniin regards to our IT development, our
IT guys have a really big play and sayin regards to which direction we go
down, because I'm not an IT developerand I'm not experienced in that area.
And so we really collaborate ina way, whereas we give them that
(37:59):
power to help make decisions inregards to what this is going to
look like, how it's going to be used.
We give them the information from abusiness strategic sense in regards
to this is what we want to do.
This is why we want to do it.
And then you can tellus how we can do that.
Then also if you're looking at from maybea corporate side of the business, when
(38:20):
we're talking about maybe human resources,if you're stepping into an SME, or a
startup company, you're really going tohave more of an opportunity to define
things like the onboarding processes, howyou train people, deciding what type of
user roles you have in the business andwho needs to be trained, what, when, how,
(38:40):
and also then having more of a decisionmaking power into employee experience
programs, like how your teams are actuallyexperiencing the workplace environment.
And so I think, yeah.
To summarize that really the misconceptionin that big companies is where you're
going to find all the opportunities.
You might find great money.
(39:01):
That's awesome.
And if that's your goal,then go in that direction.
If you have a different goal in mindfor yourself, if you're someone who
wants to really feel like you couldmake a difference somewhere, and you're
focused on creating great productsand great tools, and you're focused on
helping people, then I would look atsmall to medium enterprise and startup
(39:25):
companies, because I think that's whereyou're going to find your opportunity
to really make a positive difference.
Wow, that's somethingthat I would echo as well.
You have pharmaceutical companieswho are also in your job board at
Pharmuni and who are waiting for thecandidates who took the courses that
are even certified ISO 9001 2015.
(39:50):
So, can you elucidate which of thecompanies are partnering with Pharmuni?
Well, currently we have a few partners inthere that are a part of our test program.
Cause we've just launchedthe recruitment tool.
So, we have obviously ourselves,we have a couple that are
now being verified as well.
One of the things that's reallyimportant for us here in this space
of the recruitment is that we knowin the pharmaceutical industry and
(40:14):
med tech, it's really hard to findparticular roles and people for
particular topics and focus areas.
And so everyone who comes into theplatform and takes our courses or job
qualifications, you're building your CVprofile in there while you're doing that.
So, we have the resume builder, wehave the cover letter builder and
(40:34):
we have all your certificationsstored in there and you can elect to
share that in the talent pool, whichis what the recruiters will see.
And so, when the recruiters comein, and post their jobs, you can
actively apply for those roles.
But at the same time, the companies,if you've enabled the talent search
abilities, then they can come in andsearch for, I'm looking for people
(40:58):
who, in education, your resume,you have a bachelors in this, but
you also have good manufacturingpractices, or I'm looking for people
who have computer systems validation.
I can see these people have donethis certificate and they will
actively contact out to thosepeople through our application.
And so the goal of that is tomake sure that we can match make
these people together, and be havemore of a proactive approach in
(41:22):
regards to the recruitment process.
For companies when we're talking aboutstartups or SMEs as well as giving
them the opportunity to actively seekpeople and candidates who they know
are qualified for particular topics.
And, it is very hard to findpeople in regulatory, QA, CSV
(41:44):
or device qualification.
And so our goal is to make sure thatwhen you go through the courses, we
know exactly what you've been trained.
We know, what areas that needto be covered for these roles.
And so when you get the certification,which has the ISO notification on that,
the companies can be assured that, okay,we're getting someone that we know is
(42:07):
covered the focus areas that we need.
That is great.
And that echoes whatI already said, right?
So when you join a companyright from the bench, you don't
have this business experience.
And then you can do this alreadyduring grad school, in your final
PhD years, or even as a postdoc, butbefore you onboard into your new role.
(42:30):
All right.
So that's great.
And now I'd love to learn more aboutyou, Candice, because I know that
you have been doing so many things inbusiness already, and now it's time
to, maybe you want to share that, butwhat are your own career aspirations?
What are your own plans?
Because that really is inspiringfor my own students of industrial
(42:50):
and occupational psychology, becausemaybe learning and development is
not the final take for them, but whatelse is there for someone like you.
Wow.
I really do have many aspirationsfor myself because I am a very driven
person and I found the older I get, themore driven and the more aspirations
I have, because as you grow and evolvein your career and you start building
(43:14):
on that skill set, you realize howmuch you can do, and what areas
that you could possibly step into.
Probably for myself in regards toPharmuni, what I'm doing, I really want
to make sure that after we've finalizedall of our new recruitment tools and
(43:34):
our inner application processes isthat we start building our skill tree.
So, making sure that when you're inthe application, you can go through an
assessment to kind of look at a skills gapanalysis, see where you could up skill.
Or alternatively, if you're lookingat particular roles in the industry,
(43:55):
you'll be able to map out whereyou need to qualify yourself.
You'll be able to see it visually, andthen that will feed into the talent
pool for the recruiters so that theycan see, wow, we've got heaps of people
here qualified for device qualificationor even being an IT product developer
or product owner, which is my role.
(44:16):
We've got so many people here qualifiedfor this now that we know who to hire.
So that's probably one goal for me isto make sure that having this really
great end to end tool ready to go.
In regards to my own learning, though,and own career development, I really
want to step more into the world ofprobably some technical topics of It.
(44:42):
I'm starting to become really interestednow in more of the analytical side of
things, how to track customer journeys,what we need to do in regards to code
snippets for Google tags and Googleanalytics and Google ads, and then that
feeds into learning more about marketing.
So, now that I've kind of stepped intothat area as well, I'm starting to get
(45:06):
quite interested in communications,being able to understand the process
of engaging with your ICP, your idealcustomer profile, and how you can bring
that person through a journey to engagewith you and your product in a way that
(45:26):
is valuable and meaningful for them.
And it's actually quite interesting.
It's quite tricky.
It's not as simple as putting out apost and hoping people engage with it.
It's a lot of work, it takes a lotof brain power, a lot of creativity.
And I think for me delving into sometechnical stuff with analytics and also
(45:48):
more into the marketing and communicationside will be a professional goal for
me, probably over the next 12 months andthen we'll see where we go from there.
Wow.
We need to talk offline about that.
So for all PostdocTransformers who'vebeen listening and thinking of how
can we join Pharmuni and how can wecapitalize on the things that we can
(46:11):
do already during grad school to makeourselves visible for potential employers.
Is there anything thatyou can share with us?
Absolutely.
I would possibly pop twohats on with this answer.
And one would be from theemployer perspective and one
would be from a grad perspective.
So, if you're studying, if you'repostgraduate, if you're a bachelor's,
(46:31):
master's, whatever level you're currentlyat at the moment, I would really highly
recommend heading over to Pharmunicom because you can sign up for a free
account on Pharmuni and take some ofour free courses already on there.
Experience the platform, see how weeducate, go through the course, the
assessment, get your certificateand start building up that profile
(46:53):
because there really is in Pharmunino time limit in what you can do that.
So, you can schedule this in withyour current, timetable that you have
for your studies and your curriculum.
So, moving and making that , flexiblearound your own schedule, which is
really important for us because weknow you guys are very, very busy.
But also then from a recruitersperspective, I would highly recommend
(47:17):
that you also go to Pharmuni.
com, sign up for a freePharmuni business account.
So it's free to have an accountin there and you can go in
and post your job for free.
Go in and have a look at theapplication, engage with that, and go
in and see all the courses we have,because it might also be that maybe
you've got some people in your teamsthat you want to upskill as well.
(47:40):
So, head on over and take our courses.
All right, and to make sure thatyou have all the perks, please
make sure that you use the link inthe show notes that goes to www.
pharmunity.
com, but it essentially is myaffiliate link so that everyone
knows that you're coming as aPostdocTransformer, well qualified
(48:01):
already, and with the right appetite todigest all the e courses at Pharmuni.
And then, we also need to talk aboutthis gap at universities where we, as
professors, may lack in the qualification.
And I know that you havealso some collaborations with
(48:24):
other universities, right?
So, can you allude to that also?
Maybe there is someone within thePostdocTransformers who can make
a difference at their graduateschool at their university.
Yeah, definitely.
We have a program called The UP program,which is a university partnership
program, and the sole goal of thatis to help universities enhance the
(48:47):
academic experience by filling the gap.
They don't have time or the resourcesto teach these additional things that
the industry is really looking for.
So, the UP program offers universitiescompletely free access to the
application for their students.
So, they come and signup, on board with us.
We do between six and 12 months,depending on what they feel like.
(49:09):
And the students can come in andtake all of the courses, for free.
And then for us, what we do is collaboratewith the university to make sure
that, they will be able to enhance,their likelihood of the students moving
out of academia and into employment.
So we're currently writing a GMPAnnex 1 course in alignment with
(49:32):
them and they'll continue foranother 12 months for their students.
And they've decided that for this summerintake, they're actually integrating
Pharmuni into a quality managementcourse as part of their bachelor program.
That's great.
And I also teach intercultural psychology.
We haven't discussed that.
But when I looked at the course thatyou have at Pharmuni, I was like,
(49:54):
I'm just offering them an exam,but that same content could become
a certificate that really makesa difference in your job search.
So, I recommend highly, I highlyrecommend joining Pharmuni when
you are at university, when youare in graduate school, so that
you can hit the ground running inyour role specific qualifications.
(50:17):
Candice, it was such apleasure to talk to you!
Do you want a transcript of our episode?
And our episode sponsors answersto all six bold questions so
that you can choose to apply.
Do you want to nominate yourpotential employer of choice so that
we can ask them our bold questions?
(50:39):
For all of that, click on our links inour show notes and on our website, www.
postdoctransformation.
com.
Remember to check your readinessto leap out of science and to
enroll in our free email courseCareer Transition Made Simple.
Thanks for your attention.
I'm Professor Dr.
Eleonore Soei-Winkels, the host of yourseasonal PostdocTransformation show.
(51:00):
Post Hoc Transformation
Postdoc Transformation,postdoc transformation.
Postdoc transformation.
Invest in your PostdocTransformation.
(00:23):
Welcome to the seasonal show forscientists leaping into business.
In every sponsored episode, we are happyto recommend employers of choice for you.
Make sure to check your readinessto leap out of science with us for
free, as linked in the show notes.
For your career transition, weoffer customized career transition
e courses and memberships, also atgraduate schools all over the world.
(00:46):
Maybe yours too.
And if your university isn't yet ourcustomer, enroll in your free email
course for career transition madesimple as linked in the show notes.
I'm your host, Professor Dr.
Eleonore Soei-Winkels with myteam who is rooting for you.
And let's build yourPostdocTransformation with this episode.
As a seasoned professor of industrialand occupational psychology in Germany,
(01:09):
and knowing what bachelor and masterstudents learn in theory, I have to
recognize that companies often complainabout fresh graduates lacking workplace
preparation and project management skills.
And I haven't been in academia only,so I can also testament to when I
leaped into my first role as an ITanalyst at an international grocery
(01:30):
discounter right after my PhD inneuroscience in 2008, I was literally
overwhelmed and, I had to learn howto survive in the corporate world.
That was quite a cultureclash coming from academia.
So, on top of that, I had tolearn what was needed being a
good IT analyst in business.
(01:50):
So, if I could go back in time, Iwould disentangle these learning
curves and luckily, times have changed.
Now, I recommend Pharmuni e-courses whichyou can do before leaping into business.
So, if you are a master, bachelor studenteven, or a scientist without professional
(02:11):
industry and business experience, Irecommend to level up your employability
with Pharmuni e-courses and certificatesin for example, cultural sensitivity, time
management, team collaboration, emotionalintelligence, supplier management,
business communication skills, preparingfor job interviews, and maybe even
(02:33):
agile principles and project management.
Taking these courses will prepare you foran international corporate career, just
like mine, before you onboard into yourfirst role, so you can hit the ground
running in your role specifications.
If you are a scientist with a STEMresearch background who wants to
leap into the biotech, medtech, lifescience, pharmaceutical companies, I
(02:57):
recommend the Pharmuni e-courses andcertificates in pharmacovigilance,
compliance, and quality assurance.
These are all courses for bothnovices and seasoned professionals.
which will boost your industry excellence.
And best of all, it's not just in theory.
No, you get a certificate and all thejob qualifications are endorsed by
(03:20):
the esteemed ISO 9001 2015 CertifiedZamann Pharma Support GmbH in Germany.
And for this episode of ourPostdocTransformation Show for
scientists leaping into business, I'mexcited to welcome Candice Quinn Zarei,
who is the PharmUni Group Manager.
(03:40):
She's Australian, living in Germany,and that's why you will listen to
a different voice in this show.
She's all about bringing a new wayto upskill, qualify, recruit, and
retain talent in the pharma industry.
And that's why I'm so happy to haveyou in my show, Candice, not only
for my PostdocTransformers, but alsofor my own students of industrial
(04:03):
and occupational psychology.
So, without further ado, dearCandice, the stage is all yours.
Tell us what is your role atPharmuni apart from being the group
manager because I've seen you allover the place in media as well.
And yeah, the stage is yours.
Well, firstly, thank you somuch for having me today.
I've been really excited to talk to youyourself, knowing your experiences in
(04:27):
the industry of coming from tech and alsoas a teacher for organizational behavior
and psychology and HR, which as some bigthings that we talk about here at farm
uni, but for me, my name is Candice andyes, I originally come from Australia and
moved to Germany about five years ago tostep into Zamann pharma support where.
(04:47):
I originally was doing businessimprovement and project management.
So looking at optimization of thebusiness and really very quickly
stepped into the world of learningand development and training.
So taking, what we can do hereand how we can upskill and
qualify our own internal teams.
Even though we were very small,four or five years ago, we had a
(05:09):
very small team and have grown quitequickly, over the past few years.
And yes, I do quite a lot of roles at
Pharmuni
aside from being the product owner,which is the person responsible for
making sure that we have a really greated tech platform that is all centered
around The end users, customer anduser centric designed, but also making
(05:34):
sure we have really great e learningcontent that has learning objectives at
the center of everything we do so thatwhen you get qualified and you get the
certificates from us, they show that youcan actually do something at the end.
I'm involved in the social media.
I do the interviews.
I do podcasts, really kind of the fullscope, but that's really a great part
(05:54):
of what I do and being essentially inthe startup arm of what we do is you
have to have multiple different hats.
So, my goal is to tell you guyshow you can get into the industry
and really kind of set yourselffor success at the end of the day.
Oh, that's music in my ears really becauseI really try to sort of like help my
(06:16):
students to embrace all kinds of rolesand not just to stick into one role.
At the beginning of the career, Ialways think that you shouldn't just
drill down, but instead you shouldopen up and try all different kinds
of roles, because you'll never knowwhat the future will hold for you.
The more versatile you are,the better your chances are
(06:37):
to move up the career ladder.
Was also probably my case as wellis, I have worked in so many diverse
fields, within the realm of projectmanagement and business improvement,
but I've worked in finance, I'veworked in engineering, I've worked in
IT, I've worked in highly regulatedindustries like workers compensation,
(06:57):
pharmaceuticals and life sciences.
And you really do find that the moreskills you have, being kind of like
that multi skilled employee, you havemultidisciplinary approaches to what you
do can really set you up for being able tomove into so many different career paths.
You might start in one direction andthen with the skills that you gain, find
(07:17):
that you really enjoy something else.
And then you can kind of divert intothat path and then just branch off
into wherever you can go from there.
All right, that's a reel in itself alreadyabout transferable skills and I will
probably dissect that and post that alsoon social media because I really do think
that the more you can approach thingsfrom multiple angles, the more you are
(07:40):
valuable and bring something to the table.
All right, so looking at the multipleangles that we have already talked about.
For the pharmaceutical industry, whichof the disciplines are relevant or is
it all industries or all disciplines?
What do you think?
Is there a general educational scientificbackground that is a booster for a
(08:04):
career in pharmacy in pharma industry?
I think, you definitely have to start withyour technical scientific capabilities,
because when we're talking about thepharma and medtech industry, you have to
have those core academic competencies,because if you're doing research and
development into drugs, or if you'relooking at mechanical engineering for
(08:25):
prosthetics, et cetera, you have to havethat technical background, and that's
where the higher education and academicsetting really plays an important part.
At the same time, when you're steppinginto the world of finishing academia and
into the business of working for a companythat actually then wants to make and sell
(08:46):
these products, and how you can contributeto that for yourself and for the
communities is you do then need to factorin, The modern world that we now live
in, it was very globalized industries.
We have supply chains that runfrom Europe into South Africa,
into Canada, into South America.
(09:07):
And in regards to that, you needto now be a multi skilled employee.
And this is something that I was recentlyresearching and looking about is, last
year, we had a really big focus on AIand the introduction of new technologies.
We have a need to be very responsiveto global pandemics very quickly, as we
(09:31):
saw, probably from 2019, 2020 onwards.
Therefore, we need people who are not justtrained in probably traditional research
methods, but also really up to speedvery quickly on new research methods.
And then also we need peoplewho are looking at things
like personalized medicine.
(09:52):
So we have to start putting peopleat the center of all the designing of
products and services in the industry.
So, when you're talking about, isthere one thing that people need to
further themselves in the industry?
I would say there's a core and that'sprobably going to be centered around
what they're actually doing, whether it'sa drug development, research, if it's
(10:15):
to do with medical devices, but there'sall the other things that you need.
You need project management.
You need to be a great leader.
You need to understand documentation,and you can do that through the further
education and training that you mightnot be able to access in academic setting
because professors are very, very busy.
(10:36):
They have a lot going on, they have theircore curriculum that they need to teach.
And then, you've got other peoplelike ourselves who try and come in and
kind of support that process for them.
Yeah.
Candice, that's, that really isagain music in my ears because I
I also have humanities and socialsciences PhDs in my community, and
(10:58):
within the PostdocTransformers soI really do think that for project
management becoming a leader.
And, you know, working at theinterface between development, but
also bringing things to the market,sales and marketing, I think that
there is a place for social scientiststhrough qualitative research to
(11:19):
understand what is really needed.
On the individual level, instead ofjust the broader quantitative level.
So, that really is encouragingfor many disciplines.
And once you have determined yourreadiness to leap and want to transition
into business or industries, then youcan enroll in your free email course with
(11:43):
10 actionable, bingeable email lessonsuntil you start your job in business.
You'll get 10 emails like this.
Number one, how to leap out of science.
Number two, how to build yoursustainable LinkedIn profile.
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(12:04):
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(12:24):
Number 10, how toprepare for your new job.
And, you already mentioned the pandemic.
Are there any other recent global eventsthat have an impact on the pharmaceutical
companies or pharmaceutical industries?
I think, , for the pharmaceuticalindustry in particular, there is a
(12:45):
really big shift, that we're seeingprobably in the last four to five years
and that's around personalized medicinesand patient centric approaches because
you see lots of things in the newswhere in certain regions of the world,
it's very expensive to buy medications,and the things that are really quite
(13:05):
essential for a person's health andsafety, whereas in other regions of the
world, these things are more accessible.
And I think this shift now is startingto change, whereas we're wanting
to now make sure that the industryglobally is more focused on making
sure they have people and communityat the center of what they do.
(13:28):
And that really then falls into howwe then educate and train people.
Bringing up the leaders of tomorrowto have quality and patient
safety at the center of everythingthat they create, which means
that we need leadership skills.
We need people from different disciplinesmoving into the industry, and that's
why you're seeing probably as well inemployment trends in pharma and med
(13:52):
tech, there's a really big shift forhuman resources, is a really big shift
for marketing and sales is a really bigshift for IT Which is a very big up and
coming role, not just for developers,but people who can lead and manage IT
teams and how you integrate the world ofagile development processes with a very
(14:14):
rigid quality management system approachand how you kind of connect these two
departments together, which is luckily,something we did very successfully here,
we worked very hard of integrating ourIT and quality management teams together.
So there's a really big shift in thestructures of companies, the different
(14:35):
roles, and that's all to facilitate morepeople centered approaches in regards
to creating medicines and devices thatreally, Improve the quality of life of
people and doing it in a way where it'scommunity focused and not profit focused.
That's great news.
The last bit, what you said about, it'snot just profit focus that really is
(14:59):
probably important for many scientistsbecause scientists like I, myself,
I didn't go into science becauseI wanted to earn a lot of money.
I mean, you are probably moreidealistic in the sense that
you want to cure people's.
diseases.
Do you want to help make the world better?
But I see a lot of scientists beingdismayed at the slowness in science in the
(15:24):
sense of, you know, you are researching oncancer and therapeutics and medications.
And then it's so slow that at the endof the PhD, nothing evolves out of that,
So, Candice, I want toswitch gears a little bit.
So, As I have now someonealso who is trained in HR.
(15:46):
What specific skills and experience,knowledge, or even certifications
are needed to be successful in acorporate career in pharma industry?
When we talk about corporate andwe talk about the different arms of
research and development, I thinkthat they're two different skill sets.
They have some overlapping, but theyare two very different skill sets.
(16:07):
So, when we're talking about the worldof corporate, from my perspective, and
also from my experiences of as well ofworking in a corporate world for many,
many years now, is you need to be anoutside the box thinker, you need to be a
great problem solver, and you need to becreative in that, you need to be a great
communicator, have leadership skills,and you also need to, in regards to your
(16:30):
communications, particularly if you arecoming from the technical side of things.
So, just say you're in researchand development, you might be
wanting to explain what you'redoing to this side of the business.
You need to do that in a way whereit's really easy to understand.
So, taking the technical jargon of whatyou might really easily understand and
(16:53):
translating that in a way that peoplein the board can understand, you might
have a project sponsor, you might havepeople who are sponsoring the funding
for your research and you need to explainthings in a way that are really easy for
them to understand, but also vice versa.
If you're working in the corporateworld, you might be in human resources.
(17:14):
You might be in management.
You might be doing strategic management.
You might be in other arms where you'redeciding where the business wants to
go and you need to communicate that ina way to your developers, whether it's
technology, pharmaceuticals or medtechin a way that they understand as well.
(17:37):
Remember, you are a postdoc transformer.
You are highly intelligent, welleducated, a bachelor, master.
And maybe you have already your doctorunder your belt, or you are a postdoc.
You are internationally experienced,fluent in English, a leader and
expert in your prior research field.
You're resilient, brilliant inadaptation and problem solving.
(18:00):
You are eager to bring in thetransferable and monetizable
skills needed in many countries.
To embrace the future and to become orremain an innovator in their markets.
And so, I would say the major skillsfor both, these arms, regardless if
(18:21):
it's corporate or the technical sideof things, is fabulous communication,
great leadership, great time management.
You need to be organized, organized,organized in this industry because it is
fast paced, and all of the companies,regardless of what size, if you're a
startup or a large corporate entity is,you always need to remain competitive.
(18:42):
So everything's fastpaced in the industry.
And then just probably one last skill thatI don't think a lot of people consider in
the industry, is that you need to be ableto also sell yourself in regards to you
need to sell the great things that you do.
(19:03):
So, if you're a tech person and you'rewanting to move up into more leadership
roles of quality assurance or getting intobusiness development, firstly, you need to
be able to communicate in a way that theseguys understand, but you need to be able
to say this is the great work I've done.
This is how it's benefited the business.
And this is how it's going to put you intothe eyes of people who make the decisions
(19:25):
about where you go in your career.
And also the same on the otherside as well, you want to
move up the corporate ladder.
You're in a junior role in HR.
You need to be able to show anddemonstrate, things that you've done
that have contributed to moving thebusiness in a positive direction.
Love it.
I really love it.
I mean, you've seen me laughing.
(19:46):
There are two things that you mentioned.
And one is this being able to translate.
Whatever you are conveying inyour message for the target group.
And I have been always preparing decisionpapers or presentations for the steering
board, but also I had to go down tosort of like the IT architects and
(20:08):
talk about their latest development.
And they were talking aboutnon functional, you know.
And it was like, arguablyimportant, but that's nothing
that I can present to the board.
So you have to find the balance, andto understand the gist of the things.
And that's really a skill thatwill help you survive and also
(20:31):
move up the career ladder.
And the other thing that you mentionedwas really about the selling aspect.
Many scientists think thatmarketing yourself into a
role and whatever, is cringe.
I can see myself beingalso dismayed about that.
But I had to learn that working atAccenture, the global consulting company.
(20:52):
And every year we had to campaignfor ourself in the sense of
what were my contributions?
Why were they important?
What did I do?
What made me excel in that role?
And how do I discern myself in thecompetition against the others?
And that was the best learningcurve that I could have ever
(21:12):
Mm
throughout.
You know, these two or three years inlearning that in the sense of what it
makes me stand out today is the abilityto say, yes, this is what I did, and this
is why it's helpful, and please share,
mm
And support my causes.
I think that everyone who wants tosucceed in corporate needs also
(21:35):
the mindset of an intrapreneur.
This entrepreneurial mindset in the senseof you need to craft yourself into a job.
You need to market yourself into a job.
Whatever skills you need for thenext position, it's your homework.
No one will teach you that it's yourhomework and you need to identify
whatever is needed and level up.
(21:56):
It's also like the element of personalbranding, and I think it's such
a key word in a lot of corporatecompanies I've worked for before,
and honestly, early in my career, Ididn't take it very seriously at all.
I thought, you know, mywork will speak for itself.
You know, at the end of the day,what I've produced is going to.
They're going to look at that andbe like, you're the one for the
(22:16):
job, and it doesn't work like that.
We, as human beings, when we talkabout organizational psychology,
people are very driven by, whatthey see, how you present yourself,
how you talk, how you network.
I really didn't understand networkingwhen I first stepped into the corporate
world, but it was really important.
(22:38):
Getting to know people, introducingmyself, telling them about my work,
spreading the word, and that becomesthen an impression that they have of you.
And then that combined with your workis really balancing out and setting the
stage for you to be someone that peoplecan look to when they're wanting to fill
(22:59):
a position or they're wanting to putyou in charge of a particular project
because they also know you a bit more from, outside of just your work perspective.
So, personal branding is super,super important that goes into how
you present yourself online, yourLinkedIn, what things you talk
about, how you engage with differentprojects and community activities.
(23:22):
We live in such a massive globalizedworld these days, and probably maybe 7,
8 years ago, it was only very new for HRto probably go online and see what people
are doing, but it's very, very common now.
And so it's really important thatwith your own personal branding,
whether it be in the company and thework that you do, and being able
(23:44):
to, to market yourself in that way.
You also have to remember that online,you've gotta market yourself the same.
Absolutely.
And it's also this external marketing isnot just confined to the online presence,
which is arguably easier, I would say,because you need to also stay, you know,
up to date with networking at industryevents that you have with suppliers,
(24:10):
So, once you want to have moreof the stakes, you have to also
level up and find key stakeholders,and these are not always online.
So, you have to also be able tonetwork and level up your networking.
(24:30):
Have you found this episodeso far helpful for yourself?
Well, maybe you can subscribe onYouTube, Spotify, Apple Podcasts,
Popin, or wherever you get our show.
And also, share this episode withyour PhD bestie because that would
encourage us to help the underprivileged,underrepresented, and underserved early
career scientists leaping into business.
(24:51):
This would also ensure that youdon't miss a future episode.
Also, Our subscription and listeningnumbers are key for finding the
right sponsors for our show sothat we can help you for free.
And now back to the show.
So, when we switch gears again,Candice, what do you think are the most
(25:16):
important ethical considerations in thepharmaceutical companies or industries?
Because when I look at personalizedmedicine and the way it's
accessible through the differentregions that you have mentioned.
I think there's a multitude of ethicalconsiderations in the pharmaceutical
industry, starting at everythingfrom the focus of companies, you know,
(25:39):
why are you creating your products?
Are you creating them just to makemoney or are you actually creating
these products to benefit humanityand society as a general, which falls
into who can access these products?
Is this just a product that you'regoing to sell in your region?
Or are you going to make this a productthat's accessible, not just location
(26:01):
wise, but financially wise for people?
Because, in regards to the historicalcontext of the industry, and when
we're talking about money, thisis a trillion dollar industry.
When we put it all together, it is a greatway for companies to make a lot of money.
However, in the long run, when we'retalking about making sure that we
(26:25):
have people in the industry, we havean aging population and there's a
big gap in the aging population.
So, we have a lot of people who arein the baby boomer age groups that
are now setting into retirementand there's a massive age gap here.
And the younger people are notstepping into the industry because
they don't know that it's not justabout making money in the industry.
(26:48):
You have an opportunity to really make adifference, so, ethical concerns, I think
from a money side of things, we shouldreally make sure we keep a focus on so
that when we're bringing people into theindustry, we're educating them on what
they can do what intrinsic benefits thereare, as opposed to the extrinsic benefits.
And also, when we're talking aboutethical considerations for things
(27:11):
like AI, I'm a big believer in tech.
I love tech.
I build an edtech product.
I love AI.
I think that it has the opportunityto really benefit us in a way, whereas
we can do a whole heap of things,and not take so much time in order
to do them, which can free us up tobe more creative thinkers in ways.
(27:33):
But at the same time, I think we needto be careful with that because what we
feed into AI is what we get out of it.
And so I think, there's alwayspros and cons to these things.
So I think it just is a matter of whenwe're engaging with technology, it's
how we use the technology, how we feedinformation into the technology, and
(27:54):
then also making sure that the datasets we do give it are not just based
on a particular region or a particularphilosophy or ideology, that it is
really everyone globally feeding theinformation in so that it can learn,
and we can foster that learning in away that's really productive for us.
(28:14):
That really brings us to the term ofperson job fit, I also teach my students
to understand that your personality isimportant to consider and whatever your
values are, that should also drive yourapplications for this company or this
company, even within a given industrylike the pharmaceutical companies, right?
(28:37):
You need to understand what drivesyou and maybe you want to rather work
for a startup that is more alignedto your own vision of life, and all
your values that are important foryou instead of joining a big major
player who probably is very mature,who won't change because everything
has been working so fine for them.
(28:57):
So why should they change?
So, there are important considerationsfor your own job application and I
think that you have mentioned a lotof things that should be factored in.
You were talking also about opportunitiesand that sort of like rang a bell.
So, what are the biggest opportunitiesfor growth in the moment in your industry,
(29:22):
think the biggest opportunity is forfirstly IT, because there is a really
big boom now in regards to technologyin the industry, whether it's from
digitalization, um, you know, there'sstill a lot of companies that are
paper based, in today's modern world,which It's quite a surprise for me.
(29:44):
And so it could be as simple asdigitalization right through to
having a data analysts who are goingto manage all of your big data, IT
developers who are going to be creatingbespoke in house software, and that
then brings an opportunity for HR.
And the learning and developmentteams, because you then need to
(30:05):
start getting your head around,how to hire these different roles.
So, IT has a completely different,working mode, different principle.
When we're talking about agilemethodology, Scrum, Kanban, Waterfall,
all of these things, you know, some,people in recruitment might go, Oh, I
don't know what these are, or learningand development might go, now we need
(30:28):
to train maybe some of our managerswho are going to lead these teams in
these principles and values so that wecan integrate them into the business.
And so I think there's a lot ofopportunities for growth in IT.
I also think there's a really massivegrowth opportunity in regards to project
management, because we are now seeinglots and lots of startup companies in the
(30:52):
pharmaceutical and medtech environment.
I work with lots of them here inthe Hessen area, particularly down
in Heidelberg and what they reallyneed is people to manage these
projects to help them get theirproduct from research and development.
We've got a product.
We have it here now.
We have no idea what to do withit to get it on the market.
(31:12):
Okay.
How do we project manage this?
Okay.
We need people in qualitymanagement and quality assurance who
understand the regulatory nuancesof getting it into clinical trials
and then getting it packaged.
Okay.
If we need packaging, then weneed people in marketing and sales
who know how to package a marketfor the pharmaceutical industry.
(31:33):
Again, it's an opportunity for HRto start recruiting and bringing in
these new roles into the industry.
So probably IT, HR and training,learning and development, to be able
to bring new roles into the industry.
Which means they need to upskillthemselves in what these roles do.
How do we integrate them from anorganizational behavior sense in
(31:55):
merging these very flexible yetvery static departments and also
for marketing and sales as well.
There's a really big opportunityto work with smaller startup
companies who need that assistancein how to get their product from.
I have a great ideacan really help people.
(32:15):
So how do I now get it out into the world?
That's interesting.
And the technology to manufacture, is itchanging for pharmaceutical companies?
And also the manufacturing practice,are there any do's and don'ts and
how do you manage the manufacturing?
(32:36):
I would say, the first probably partof that when we're talking about GMP
and good manufacturing practices isthis is such an important topic that
requires not just initial training,but retraining consistently every year.
So, as a general compliance trainingin the industry and to also make sure
(32:56):
that the philosophy and principlesof quality at the center of everything
you do in GMP is always reiterated.
That involves whether you're doingtraining online, like with Pharmuni
and our GMP courses that we have inthere, and then those people then
being able to train other peoplewithin the business in that aspect.
I think GMP, doesn't really justencompass the process of as an
(33:22):
example, in a production facilitywhere you have a thing starting here
and going through the productionline, getting packaged and sent out.
GMP covers things like quality management.
It covers batch production.
It covers documentation.
It covers pharmacovigilance.
It covers compliance.
So, there's a whole different set of subtopics or focus areas within the kind of
(33:48):
realm of GMP and GMP in itself is a globalstandard, that's regulated, it's governed.
The FDA has some very clearregulations around that.
And that's why there's globalstandards set in place for that.
And then when we're talking about GMPin regards to technology changes, this
is where we again come into differenttopics like device qualification,
(34:12):
computer systems validation, andyou need to have staff who are
trained in these, and they might betrained in sub areas of these topics.
So, for computer systems validation,you might have the people who need to
write all the user requirements forthat, then to be tested and validated.
For device qualification, you might havesub areas within that where you need
(34:36):
to upskill people in how to request thedemand from the supply for the device.
You need to then do userspecification checking.
You then need someone to testit at the factory facility,
test it on site, validate it.
And then if the device comeswith software, again, you
need to do CSV with that.
So, as technology changes in theindustry, which we are going to see,
(35:00):
new practices coming into the industry.
In regards to testing, particularly withrobotics and such coming in, more so
than this manual hands on approach, we'reseeing a really big buildup of that.
You need to have in the world of GMP,device qualification, CSV, GMP practices,
(35:21):
compliance, supplier management, thefull kind of end to end life cycle.
Thank you for this detailed overviewof the supply chain, I love it because
I'll take this bit and show that to mystudents because I'm always talking about
the supply chain and that they have tounderstand who's next in line and after
that position so that they understand thevalue that is created, the value add, etc.
(35:46):
So, that is a great practical example.
So, thank you for that, Candice.
When we are talking to the variousdisciplines who are sort of at the
fence of applying to the pharmaceuticalcompanies because they don't bring
the specific core skillset thatyou have mentioned, what are the
biggest misconceptions about thepharmaceutical companies and industries?
(36:10):
I would say, the biggest misconception isthat the larger companies are where you
are going to get all your opportunities.
Because I would say particularly whenwe're talking about if you're wanting
to have an impact in regards to whatyou can develop, what you can't develop,
whether that's the medicines or it'sIT is, and this is also a mistake
(36:33):
I know I made early in my career isthat going for the larger companies,
because thinking that they have allthe resources, they have all the money.
This is where I'm going to be ableto excel because they're going
to give me those opportunities.
But the misconception there isthat, in larger companies, if
you're really fortunate enough to getplaced in a team that gives you that
(36:55):
freedom to do that, that's fabulous.
But the majority of the time youmight be placed in a team where
they just want you to do this thing.
They want you to processthis and that's it.
And that's because they have multiplelayers of decision makers, and your
decision making power might be downhere, whereas there's five levels up
in the hierarchy of someone makinga decision here strategically,
(37:18):
where they want that to go.
Whereas I found that, in the industry,there are so many SME companies, small
to medium enterprises, even startupcompanies where you could be placed
in a position or in a team where youhave more decision making power in
regards to what you're going to develop.
(37:39):
So, if you're talking about us at Pharmuniin regards to our IT development, our
IT guys have a really big play and sayin regards to which direction we go
down, because I'm not an IT developerand I'm not experienced in that area.
And so we really collaborate ina way, whereas we give them that
(37:59):
power to help make decisions inregards to what this is going to
look like, how it's going to be used.
We give them the information from abusiness strategic sense in regards
to this is what we want to do.
This is why we want to do it.
And then you can tellus how we can do that.
Then also if you're looking at from maybea corporate side of the business, when
(38:20):
we're talking about maybe human resources,if you're stepping into an SME, or a
startup company, you're really going tohave more of an opportunity to define
things like the onboarding processes, howyou train people, deciding what type of
user roles you have in the business andwho needs to be trained, what, when, how,
(38:40):
and also then having more of a decisionmaking power into employee experience
programs, like how your teams are actuallyexperiencing the workplace environment.
And so I think, yeah.
To summarize that really the misconceptionin that big companies is where you're
going to find all the opportunities.
You might find great money.
(39:01):
That's awesome.
And if that's your goal,then go in that direction.
If you have a different goal in mindfor yourself, if you're someone who
wants to really feel like you couldmake a difference somewhere, and you're
focused on creating great productsand great tools, and you're focused on
helping people, then I would look atsmall to medium enterprise and startup
(39:25):
companies, because I think that's whereyou're going to find your opportunity
to really make a positive difference.
Wow, that's somethingthat I would echo as well.
You have pharmaceutical companieswho are also in your job board at
Pharmuni and who are waiting for thecandidates who took the courses that
are even certified ISO 9001 2015.
(39:50):
So, can you elucidate which of thecompanies are partnering with Pharmuni?
Well, currently we have a few partners inthere that are a part of our test program.
Cause we've just launchedthe recruitment tool.
So, we have obviously ourselves,we have a couple that are
now being verified as well.
One of the things that's reallyimportant for us here in this space
of the recruitment is that we knowin the pharmaceutical industry and
(40:14):
med tech, it's really hard to findparticular roles and people for
particular topics and focus areas.
And so everyone who comes into theplatform and takes our courses or job
qualifications, you're building your CVprofile in there while you're doing that.
So, we have the resume builder, wehave the cover letter builder and
(40:34):
we have all your certificationsstored in there and you can elect to
share that in the talent pool, whichis what the recruiters will see.
And so, when the recruiters comein, and post their jobs, you can
actively apply for those roles.
But at the same time, the companies,if you've enabled the talent search
abilities, then they can come in andsearch for, I'm looking for people
(40:58):
who, in education, your resume,you have a bachelors in this, but
you also have good manufacturingpractices, or I'm looking for people
who have computer systems validation.
I can see these people have donethis certificate and they will
actively contact out to thosepeople through our application.
And so the goal of that is tomake sure that we can match make
these people together, and be havemore of a proactive approach in
(41:22):
regards to the recruitment process.
For companies when we're talking aboutstartups or SMEs as well as giving
them the opportunity to actively seekpeople and candidates who they know
are qualified for particular topics.
And, it is very hard to findpeople in regulatory, QA, CSV
(41:44):
or device qualification.
And so our goal is to make sure thatwhen you go through the courses, we
know exactly what you've been trained.
We know, what areas that needto be covered for these roles.
And so when you get the certification,which has the ISO notification on that,
the companies can be assured that, okay,we're getting someone that we know is
(42:07):
covered the focus areas that we need.
That is great.
And that echoes whatI already said, right?
So when you join a companyright from the bench, you don't
have this business experience.
And then you can do this alreadyduring grad school, in your final
PhD years, or even as a postdoc, butbefore you onboard into your new role.
(42:30):
All right.
So that's great.
And now I'd love to learn more aboutyou, Candice, because I know that
you have been doing so many things inbusiness already, and now it's time
to, maybe you want to share that, butwhat are your own career aspirations?
What are your own plans?
Because that really is inspiringfor my own students of industrial
(42:50):
and occupational psychology, becausemaybe learning and development is
not the final take for them, but whatelse is there for someone like you.
Wow.
I really do have many aspirationsfor myself because I am a very driven
person and I found the older I get, themore driven and the more aspirations
I have, because as you grow and evolvein your career and you start building
(43:14):
on that skill set, you realize howmuch you can do, and what areas
that you could possibly step into.
Probably for myself in regards toPharmuni, what I'm doing, I really want
to make sure that after we've finalizedall of our new recruitment tools and
(43:34):
our inner application processes isthat we start building our skill tree.
So, making sure that when you're inthe application, you can go through an
assessment to kind of look at a skills gapanalysis, see where you could up skill.
Or alternatively, if you're lookingat particular roles in the industry,
(43:55):
you'll be able to map out whereyou need to qualify yourself.
You'll be able to see it visually, andthen that will feed into the talent
pool for the recruiters so that theycan see, wow, we've got heaps of people
here qualified for device qualificationor even being an IT product developer
or product owner, which is my role.
(44:16):
We've got so many people here qualifiedfor this now that we know who to hire.
So that's probably one goal for me isto make sure that having this really
great end to end tool ready to go.
In regards to my own learning, though,and own career development, I really
want to step more into the world ofprobably some technical topics of It.
(44:42):
I'm starting to become really interestednow in more of the analytical side of
things, how to track customer journeys,what we need to do in regards to code
snippets for Google tags and Googleanalytics and Google ads, and then that
feeds into learning more about marketing.
So, now that I've kind of stepped intothat area as well, I'm starting to get
(45:06):
quite interested in communications,being able to understand the process
of engaging with your ICP, your idealcustomer profile, and how you can bring
that person through a journey to engagewith you and your product in a way that
(45:26):
is valuable and meaningful for them.
And it's actually quite interesting.
It's quite tricky.
It's not as simple as putting out apost and hoping people engage with it.
It's a lot of work, it takes a lotof brain power, a lot of creativity.
And I think for me delving into sometechnical stuff with analytics and also
(45:48):
more into the marketing and communicationside will be a professional goal for
me, probably over the next 12 months andthen we'll see where we go from there.
Wow.
We need to talk offline about that.
So for all PostdocTransformers who'vebeen listening and thinking of how
can we join Pharmuni and how can wecapitalize on the things that we can
(46:11):
do already during grad school to makeourselves visible for potential employers.
Is there anything thatyou can share with us?
Absolutely.
I would possibly pop twohats on with this answer.
And one would be from theemployer perspective and one
would be from a grad perspective.
So, if you're studying, if you'repostgraduate, if you're a bachelor's,
(46:31):
master's, whatever level you're currentlyat at the moment, I would really highly
recommend heading over to Pharmunicom because you can sign up for a free
account on Pharmuni and take some ofour free courses already on there.
Experience the platform, see how weeducate, go through the course, the
assessment, get your certificateand start building up that profile
(46:53):
because there really is in Pharmunino time limit in what you can do that.
So, you can schedule this in withyour current, timetable that you have
for your studies and your curriculum.
So, moving and making that , flexiblearound your own schedule, which is
really important for us because weknow you guys are very, very busy.
But also then from a recruitersperspective, I would highly recommend
(47:17):
that you also go to Pharmuni.
com, sign up for a freePharmuni business account.
So it's free to have an accountin there and you can go in
and post your job for free.
Go in and have a look at theapplication, engage with that, and go
in and see all the courses we have,because it might also be that maybe
you've got some people in your teamsthat you want to upskill as well.
(47:40):
So, head on over and take our courses.
All right, and to make sure thatyou have all the perks, please
make sure that you use the link inthe show notes that goes to www.
pharmunity.
com, but it essentially is myaffiliate link so that everyone
knows that you're coming as aPostdocTransformer, well qualified
(48:01):
already, and with the right appetite todigest all the e courses at Pharmuni.
And then, we also need to talk aboutthis gap at universities where we, as
professors, may lack in the qualification.
And I know that you havealso some collaborations with
(48:24):
other universities, right?
So, can you allude to that also?
Maybe there is someone within thePostdocTransformers who can make
a difference at their graduateschool at their university.
Yeah, definitely.
We have a program called The UP program,which is a university partnership
program, and the sole goal of thatis to help universities enhance the
(48:47):
academic experience by filling the gap.
They don't have time or the resourcesto teach these additional things that
the industry is really looking for.
So, the UP program offers universitiescompletely free access to the
application for their students.
So, they come and signup, on board with us.
We do between six and 12 months,depending on what they feel like.
(49:09):
And the students can come in andtake all of the courses, for free.
And then for us, what we do is collaboratewith the university to make sure
that, they will be able to enhance,their likelihood of the students moving
out of academia and into employment.
So we're currently writing a GMPAnnex 1 course in alignment with
(49:32):
them and they'll continue foranother 12 months for their students.
And they've decided that for this summerintake, they're actually integrating
Pharmuni into a quality managementcourse as part of their bachelor program.
That's great.
And I also teach intercultural psychology.
We haven't discussed that.
But when I looked at the course thatyou have at Pharmuni, I was like,
(49:54):
I'm just offering them an exam,but that same content could become
a certificate that really makesa difference in your job search.
So, I recommend highly, I highlyrecommend joining Pharmuni when
you are at university, when youare in graduate school, so that
you can hit the ground running inyour role specific qualifications.
(50:17):
Candice, it was such apleasure to talk to you!
Do you want a transcript of our episode?
And our episode sponsors answersto all six bold questions so
that you can choose to apply.
Do you want to nominate yourpotential employer of choice so that
we can ask them our bold questions?
(50:39):
For all of that, click on our links inour show notes and on our website, www.
postdoctransformation.
com.
Remember to check your readinessto leap out of science and to
enroll in our free email courseCareer Transition Made Simple.
Thanks for your attention.
I'm Professor Dr.
Eleonore Soei-Winkels, the host of yourseasonal PostdocTransformation show.
(51:00):
Post Hoc Transformation
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