The Rising Demand for Cybersecurity and E-Discovery Talent

I spoke with Tom Chapman, the Co-Founder of Iceberg, a specialist recruitment firm focused on cybersecurity and e-discovery. We discussed how the demand for cybersecurity and e-discovery talent has evolved, the challenges companies face when hiring for these roles, and how AI and automation are impacting hiring in cybersecurity and e-discovery.

Episode Transcript

(00:01):
Welcome to Reinventing Professionals,a podcast hosted by industry analyst
Ari Kaplan, which shares ideas,guidance, and perspectives from market
leaders shaping the next generationof legal and professional services.
This is Ari Kaplan and I'm speakingtoday with Tom Chapman, the co-founder

(00:23):
of Iceberg, a specialist recruitment firmfocused on cybersecurity and e-discovery.
Hi Tom, how are you,
Ari?
I'm really good.
Thank you.
I'm really good.
How are you?
I'm doing great, and I'm lookingforward to this conversation.
So tell us about your backgroundand the genesis of Iceberg.
August is gonna be my 18th year inrecruitment, so I've been embedded

(00:46):
into the industry for, a while and Istarted my career in tech recruiting.
Then I pivoted to oil and gas, I'vealways gotta be trying to solve different
problems and I saw a problem in oiland gas recruiting and went for it.
Then the oil price went down and I had topivot and, I looked at different options.
Cybersecurity really excited me so2014 ended cybersecurity recruiting

(01:09):
and then ended discovery in 2016.
My business partner andI set iceberg up in 2016.
So ultimately to start with focus oncybersecurity hiring and rolling out the
red carpet to clients and candidates.
Early on in that journey, one ofour investment banking clients
in London said, can you helpus out with an discovery role?

(01:29):
We ended up filling that role.
Another consultant that has a bige discovery practice gave us some
e-discovery roles to look at, andwe started filling their information
governance roles, and then they setup an incident response practice.
So I was like, , hang on aminute, we can actually help.
Whether it's a consultancy, avendor, or a law firm with both
cybersecurity, any discovery, hiring.
I knew quite early on that we'd be ableto help the community in a big way.

(01:50):
So iceberg is about speed, qualitywithout compromise, and helping
clients hire faster with confidence andprofessional spine careers ultimately.
The big thing for us is retention.
Making sure that, that's abig part of our role as well.
So it sounds like the e-discoveryportion occurred organically.
What led you to specialize incybersecurity at the outset?

(02:14):
I found the word cyber really attractive
. When I was doing tech recruitment, I was doing a lot of infrastructure,
so placing network engineers,network security engineers.
I already had that foundational knowledge.
And I'm somebody that likes toreally hone in on focus on an area
and being the niche that it is.
I just, I was justfascinated, I thought okay.
I can use my network hereto potentially help solve a

(02:35):
staffing problem at that time.
How has the demand for cybersecurity,any discovery talent evolved
since you started, and certainlyover the past few years?
If we start with cybersecurity, if it'snot in the news every day, then it is
every other day, and be that if it'sa cyber breach or an investment, or an
acquisition that's happened, the demand isdriven by increased breaches, regulatory

(03:00):
pressure ransomware, cloud, migration,and the last bit is probably geopolitical
On the eDiscovery side, it's,litigation volumes have definitely
made eDiscovery even more crucial andthe digitalization of data regulatory
complexity and also remote work.
The pandemic really acceleratedtech adoption, as we all know.
And companies are playing catch up withAI at the minute, and, we're starting

(03:23):
to see that tech adoption evolve.
The hybrid and remote sideof things created new threat
vectors, and legal risks.
And the legal, demand surgedin both verticals there.
What are the biggest hiringchallenges that companies you
work with are facing today?
I don't believe there's acybersecurity skills gap or an

(03:44):
e-discovery talent shortage.
There's an education and training gap.
So not every organization isactually set up, be ready to help
train and develop their staff.
They want someone to come in, who'sthat finished article and from day one,
be able to solve all their problems.
And that just doesn't exist.
So to solve, the potentialissue of education training.
Organizations have really gotta lookinternally at their processes and are

(04:06):
they set up for success internally?
And it really amazes me how somany companies come to us to help
them with their staffing needs.
And they haven't even thought aboutor defined their interview schedule.
One of the first questions we getwhen we speak to candidates is what
does the interview process look like?
They don't wanna.
10 stage interview process, theywill say it's nice and lean.
So we really try to helpwith that with clients.

(04:30):
But I would I would say thatit's really crucial, spend a
lot of time on, on that area.
And we do as a business, spendlots of time with hiring managers,
making sure that define that.
And a lot of them are honest with me.
Do you know what?
I need your help with that.
What do I need to do?
One of the other big ones is culture fair?
And it's still big.
And we work on this with clientsdaily, weekly, and monthly.

(04:52):
Looking at their culture tryingto understand what makes their
people successful already so we cantry and duplicate that for them.
But if it's done then you're gonnanot only hire good people, you're
gonna retain good people as well.
As a hiring manager, you needto be ready to pull the trigger.
A candidate you want quicklybecause as soon as they come
on, they're off just as quickly.
So it's important that you've gotthe ability to pull the trigger

(05:17):
within cybersecurity and eDiscovery,are there roles that seem to be
uniquely in demand at the moment?
Yes definitely is.
On the cybersecurity side, it'sinstant response and data breach
teams, be that a cyber incidentresponse team or responder, or a data

(05:39):
breach attorney, in fact, that was a.
A lot of people asking for data breachattorneys at legal work, . But also
the GRC, the governance risk andcompliance piece, making sure they've
got the right frameworks in, in place.
There's definitely a demand for thosefolks, especially in AI companies.
I'm seeing that quite a lot.
And when it comes to that sideof things it's not just GRC data

(06:00):
breach attorneys instant response,but it's also AI security.
Then security for ai.
And then on the eDiscoveryside it's project managers.
It doesn't matter if you're junioror senior, but you need, you've
gotta have the tech fluency.
But you've, but the e-discovery side, thediscovery side for me is just, there's
a huge amount for project managersfrom east all the way to West Coast

(06:22):
When you are looking to hire inyour niche, you've also gotta
work with a niche recruiter.
If you go generalist, they'renot gonna have the network.
And we spend every single day, networking.
That's how.
We built a business, your networkis your network as the sound goes.
And you have to have that network.
I always advise hiring managerslook at your network first because

(06:42):
we're an extension to that.
So when yours ends, our starts and allwe're doing every day is trying to meet
new people and understand where goodpeople sit or where unhappy people sit.
So the demand is definitely across onthe cyber side, ir data breach teams,
GRC and ai, and on the discovery side.
It's the PMs.

(07:03):
How do you see AI in automation affectinghiring in cybersecurity and eDiscovery?
AI is changing the way, we detect andrespond to threats , but it's also great,
new hiring needs such as AI safety.
It's not just about.
AI security, it's allabout security for ai.
And these are new skills, youcan't ask someone to come in with

(07:23):
10, 15 years, 20 years experience.
They don't exist at the minute.
You've gotta look at the barrier toentry for these types of roles within
AI and automation . On the eDiscoveryside, it wasn't just this year at Legal
Week, but last year at Legal Week AIwas such a big topic and we spoke about
pretty much in every conversation.
AI is being used to, sift.
Massive volumes of data prioritized,review the tech patterns, but still needs

(07:46):
that human oversight as well, and withthose new skill coming in, you've gotta
look at what's emerging and it's, is.
Prompt engineering or AI governance.
But on the automation side, hiringprocesses themselves are being
automated, but still need a humantouch, to assess that culture fit.
But I'm sure there's someone outthere pretty soon that's gonna come
up with a solution for that as well.
So it's an interestingtime for AI and automation.

(08:09):
What advice would you give toprofessionals who are interested in
either pursuing a career in cybersecurityor e-discovery or even just advancing
their career in those sectors?
A lot of people usually ask what havewe got do to get into the industry but
tend to forget about the folks thatare midway through their career and

(08:30):
got a bit of career fog, and dunnowhich way to turn to what I need to do.
The best advice I give people is I usethe word cyber and I break that down.
The C is for control.
The Y is for your, the B is forbig, the E is for employment,
and the R is for rise control.
Your big employment rise, and ifyou break that down, what I mean
is . You've gotta put yourself outthere and make yourself accountable

(08:52):
, to push things forward yourself.
No one's gonna come and tap youon the shoulder and say, Hey,
here's that promotion you wantthat you've never spoken about.
If you wanna go from a juniorproject manager to a senior project
manager, you can't sit still.
You've gotta show them that yourtech fluency is increasing . You've
gotta demonstrate that you cantake the lead on a client call.
On the cyber side, you've gotta show thatyou can go and research new tools and

(09:14):
bring them to the table versus someonetelling you to go and research them.
Be curious, ask lots of questions, geta mentor and push your career forward
by controlling your big employment rise.
This is Ari Kaplan speaking with TomChapman, the co-founder of Iceberg,
a specialist recruitment firm focusedon cybersecurity and eDiscovery.

(09:36):
Tom, thanks so much.
My absolute pleasure.
Thank you as well.
Thank you for listening to theReinventing Professionals Podcast.
Visit reinventing professionals.com orari kaplan advisors.com to learn more.