March 4, 2025 • 8 mins
I spoke with Ray Biederman, the Co-Founder and CEO of Proteus Discovery Group, which is celebrating its 10th anniversary, and is a founding partner of Mattingly Burke Cohen & Biederman. We discussed the genesis of Proteus Discovery Group, the benefits of simultaneously managing a law firm and a legal services company, and how e-discovery is evolving.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Welcome to Reinviting Professionals, a podcast hosted by industry analyst Ari Kaplan,
(00:07):
which shares ideas, guidance and perspectives from market leaders shaping the next generation
of legal and professional services.
This is Ari Kaplan, and I'm speaking today with Ray Bedermann, the co-founder and CEO
of Proteus Discovery Group, and a founding partner in Maddenley, Burke, Cohen, and Bedermann.
(00:29):
Hi, Ray, how are you?
Hey, doing great.
How are you doing, Ari?
I'm doing really well.
It's a privilege to speak with you.
So tell us about your background and the genesis of Proteus Discovery Group, which is celebrating
its 10th anniversary.
When we started this, there were four of us.
We were all litigators at Barnes & Thornberg, MLO 100 firm, headquartered here in Indianapolis.
(00:51):
And we saw a need in the market for small to medium sized law firm that could do sophisticated
work, but at a price point where Indian clients could really afford it and benefit from it.
So we decided to start a law firm at that time.
During all of this conversation, we actually were approached by several companies to start
an Indianapolis branch of Document Review Company X, whatever week we'd get a call.
(01:16):
Finally, I said, there's a real opportunity here.
If everybody else is seeing this, why don't we just start a doc review company as well from
scratch?
We jumped in, and it's been 10 years.
And this is success and growth.
We're super happy with our clients, our employees.
We recently just acquired a second company based in Portland, Oregon, integrating that.
So now we're, we like to say coast and coasts, and send a coast to coast because we got
(01:40):
people on both sides.
How does that acquisition fit into the mission of Proteus Discovery Group?
Our big things are providing clear pricing, having litigator, lead, e-discovery, and being
that place where people can get a real consultive experience.
So when we were identifying targets for acquisition, we wanted to find somebody who had that same
(02:02):
set of values.
And we talked with Rob Oliver from Novitas, great guy, Ben in the industry since the 90s,
and the Novitas brand has been around that long as well.
And all of the clients that we spoke to have had, spoke so highly of the experience they
had with Novitas, and we felt like it was a natural fit.
How did your early experience as a large law firm partner shape your vision for Proteus
(02:27):
Discovery and the launch of Maddenley Burkko and in Bedermen?
Some of the things that we looked at when we started Proteus was when you look at the pricing
list for the regular e-discovery provider, at least at that time, it was 20 pages long.
And when you compared pricing from one vendor to the other, you couldn't do it.
(02:48):
It was like comparing apples and dump trucks.
We wanted to create clear pricing.
So when people came in and asked for our services, they knew what they were going to get, how
much it was going to cost.
And we felt like bringing that clarity to the mix was going to be a game changer.
In addition, litigator, Laddie Discovery means that we're in the trenches arguing these
motions.
(03:09):
We help draft briefs.
We help draft discovery responses.
We can be more than just gathering documents and putting them into a processing platform
and getting them produced.
It's a true partnership with our clients.
We felt like that was something needed in this space.
During my time at Barnes & Thornberg, I was providing that service to people.
(03:29):
So I decided that that was going to be the basis of what we're going to do at Proteus.
To what extent is the guidance that you're providing legal?
The purely legal stuff we make sure to do through the law firm, obviously, because the protections
that are afforded there.
But we like to serve as that bridge between the two.
When we hire people, promote people, give people reviews, we look at that in Texas.
(03:51):
We say, you're really great on the tech.
Some of the things that we can do to be more consultive in order to equip our merits council
to be best prepared as they can going into a hearing or responding to a motion to compel
or having a meet and confer conference.
We want to make sure that our people understand what those processes look like and what they're
saying, how that affects the outcome of a litigation or the outcome of a conference.
(04:18):
That's a big part of our training for our employees.
What unique perspectives does simultaneously managing a law firm and a legal services company
offer you?
Being litigators ourselves, we can fair it through some of the noise that you get in the
e-discovery space with the shiny new object and running to this and running to that.
(04:40):
We cut through some of that for our prospective clients and our clients and to make sure
that they understand that they're getting exactly what they need from both a substantive
standpoint and also understanding what the landscape looks like from a best practices
standpoint.
And us continuing to have a foot in the legal world and have a foot litigating cases helps
(05:01):
us react in real time to decisions that judges make on grand e-discovery things.
What strategies have served you well in operating proteus for the past decade?
Looking at new opportunities, whether it's new tech, new techniques to complete our tasks
and having the wisdom to know when to dive in on something and when to say, yeah, this is
(05:27):
going to be a fad, but maybe it's not something that we need to dive into yet.
That has served us well.
In addition to that, having that perspective of what our clients expect because we are litigators
and so we see what other vendors are doing with our opposing counsel.
Those are all things that have been really helpful for us to provide a better service to
(05:48):
our clients.
What lessons can you share as an entrepreneur in the e-discovery sector?
It is a constantly changing environment.
We started purely in doc review and we worked with other companies that hosted data that
didn't have a doc review on them.
It was the symbiotic relationship between the two.
(06:09):
Over time, all of those companies that did the hosting kept merging in, merging in, and
merging in, and then they'd merging with someone that had a doc review arm.
So we eventually got into hosting ourselves.
It was not something that was originally on our roadmap, but proteus is a Greek god known
for adaptability.
So we got to stay adaptable.
(06:29):
That's been one of the biggest things that we've had to do as entrepreneurs over the last
10 years.
How do you see e-discovery evolving?
It's yet to be seen, the largeness of the impact of generative AI on our profession.
Eventually, it's going to have an effect on first level review at least and how much of
that's going to occur.
It's another tool in the tool belt that we have available to us.
(06:53):
I'm not sure it's going to be the B all end all or end e-discovery.
We're going to seek more consolidation in the space, which is going to help our clients
have better tools that they can use and more knowledge based for innovation to move faster.
But I think that there's always going to be that need for a really detailed oriented
(07:14):
attorneys to go through documents and fair it out things that are important and not
important.
Having that judgment to understand what tool to use when and how to use it, that's going
to become even more valuable.
There'll be a bigger focus on the service aspect of things from a project management standpoint
and the tech is going to normalize itself over time and everyone will be able to take
(07:39):
their PST files, upload them, process them on their own.
After that comes the art of having the project manager go in and understand the landscape,
understand what the goals are and be able to give that and product the shine that it
needs.
This is Ari Kaplan speaking with Ray Bederman, the co-founder and CEO of Proteus Discovery Group
(08:01):
and a founding partner in Maddenley Burke Cohen and Bederman.
Ray, thanks so very much and congratulations on the 10th anniversary of Proteus Discovery.
Thank you very much.
Thank you for listening to the Reinventing Professionals podcast.
Visit reinventingprofessionals.com or Ari Kaplan Advisors.com to learn more.
Welcome to Reinviting Professionals, a podcast hosted by industry analyst Ari Kaplan,
(00:07):
which shares ideas, guidance and perspectives from market leaders shaping the next generation
of legal and professional services.
This is Ari Kaplan, and I'm speaking today with Ray Bedermann, the co-founder and CEO
of Proteus Discovery Group, and a founding partner in Maddenley, Burke, Cohen, and Bedermann.
(00:29):
Hi, Ray, how are you?
Hey, doing great.
How are you doing, Ari?
I'm doing really well.
It's a privilege to speak with you.
So tell us about your background and the genesis of Proteus Discovery Group, which is celebrating
its 10th anniversary.
When we started this, there were four of us.
We were all litigators at Barnes & Thornberg, MLO 100 firm, headquartered here in Indianapolis.
(00:51):
And we saw a need in the market for small to medium sized law firm that could do sophisticated
work, but at a price point where Indian clients could really afford it and benefit from it.
So we decided to start a law firm at that time.
During all of this conversation, we actually were approached by several companies to start
an Indianapolis branch of Document Review Company X, whatever week we'd get a call.
(01:16):
Finally, I said, there's a real opportunity here.
If everybody else is seeing this, why don't we just start a doc review company as well from
scratch?
We jumped in, and it's been 10 years.
And this is success and growth.
We're super happy with our clients, our employees.
We recently just acquired a second company based in Portland, Oregon, integrating that.
So now we're, we like to say coast and coasts, and send a coast to coast because we got
(01:40):
people on both sides.
How does that acquisition fit into the mission of Proteus Discovery Group?
Our big things are providing clear pricing, having litigator, lead, e-discovery, and being
that place where people can get a real consultive experience.
So when we were identifying targets for acquisition, we wanted to find somebody who had that same
(02:02):
set of values.
And we talked with Rob Oliver from Novitas, great guy, Ben in the industry since the 90s,
and the Novitas brand has been around that long as well.
And all of the clients that we spoke to have had, spoke so highly of the experience they
had with Novitas, and we felt like it was a natural fit.
How did your early experience as a large law firm partner shape your vision for Proteus
(02:27):
Discovery and the launch of Maddenley Burkko and in Bedermen?
Some of the things that we looked at when we started Proteus was when you look at the pricing
list for the regular e-discovery provider, at least at that time, it was 20 pages long.
And when you compared pricing from one vendor to the other, you couldn't do it.
(02:48):
It was like comparing apples and dump trucks.
We wanted to create clear pricing.
So when people came in and asked for our services, they knew what they were going to get, how
much it was going to cost.
And we felt like bringing that clarity to the mix was going to be a game changer.
In addition, litigator, Laddie Discovery means that we're in the trenches arguing these
motions.
(03:09):
We help draft briefs.
We help draft discovery responses.
We can be more than just gathering documents and putting them into a processing platform
and getting them produced.
It's a true partnership with our clients.
We felt like that was something needed in this space.
During my time at Barnes & Thornberg, I was providing that service to people.
(03:29):
So I decided that that was going to be the basis of what we're going to do at Proteus.
To what extent is the guidance that you're providing legal?
The purely legal stuff we make sure to do through the law firm, obviously, because the protections
that are afforded there.
But we like to serve as that bridge between the two.
When we hire people, promote people, give people reviews, we look at that in Texas.
(03:51):
We say, you're really great on the tech.
Some of the things that we can do to be more consultive in order to equip our merits council
to be best prepared as they can going into a hearing or responding to a motion to compel
or having a meet and confer conference.
We want to make sure that our people understand what those processes look like and what they're
saying, how that affects the outcome of a litigation or the outcome of a conference.
(04:18):
That's a big part of our training for our employees.
What unique perspectives does simultaneously managing a law firm and a legal services company
offer you?
Being litigators ourselves, we can fair it through some of the noise that you get in the
e-discovery space with the shiny new object and running to this and running to that.
(04:40):
We cut through some of that for our prospective clients and our clients and to make sure
that they understand that they're getting exactly what they need from both a substantive
standpoint and also understanding what the landscape looks like from a best practices
standpoint.
And us continuing to have a foot in the legal world and have a foot litigating cases helps
(05:01):
us react in real time to decisions that judges make on grand e-discovery things.
What strategies have served you well in operating proteus for the past decade?
Looking at new opportunities, whether it's new tech, new techniques to complete our tasks
and having the wisdom to know when to dive in on something and when to say, yeah, this is
(05:27):
going to be a fad, but maybe it's not something that we need to dive into yet.
That has served us well.
In addition to that, having that perspective of what our clients expect because we are litigators
and so we see what other vendors are doing with our opposing counsel.
Those are all things that have been really helpful for us to provide a better service to
(05:48):
our clients.
What lessons can you share as an entrepreneur in the e-discovery sector?
It is a constantly changing environment.
We started purely in doc review and we worked with other companies that hosted data that
didn't have a doc review on them.
It was the symbiotic relationship between the two.
(06:09):
Over time, all of those companies that did the hosting kept merging in, merging in, and
merging in, and then they'd merging with someone that had a doc review arm.
So we eventually got into hosting ourselves.
It was not something that was originally on our roadmap, but proteus is a Greek god known
for adaptability.
So we got to stay adaptable.
(06:29):
That's been one of the biggest things that we've had to do as entrepreneurs over the last
10 years.
How do you see e-discovery evolving?
It's yet to be seen, the largeness of the impact of generative AI on our profession.
Eventually, it's going to have an effect on first level review at least and how much of
that's going to occur.
It's another tool in the tool belt that we have available to us.
(06:53):
I'm not sure it's going to be the B all end all or end e-discovery.
We're going to seek more consolidation in the space, which is going to help our clients
have better tools that they can use and more knowledge based for innovation to move faster.
But I think that there's always going to be that need for a really detailed oriented
(07:14):
attorneys to go through documents and fair it out things that are important and not
important.
Having that judgment to understand what tool to use when and how to use it, that's going
to become even more valuable.
There'll be a bigger focus on the service aspect of things from a project management standpoint
and the tech is going to normalize itself over time and everyone will be able to take
(07:39):
their PST files, upload them, process them on their own.
After that comes the art of having the project manager go in and understand the landscape,
understand what the goals are and be able to give that and product the shine that it
needs.
This is Ari Kaplan speaking with Ray Bederman, the co-founder and CEO of Proteus Discovery Group
(08:01):
and a founding partner in Maddenley Burke Cohen and Bederman.
Ray, thanks so very much and congratulations on the 10th anniversary of Proteus Discovery.
Thank you very much.
Thank you for listening to the Reinventing Professionals podcast.
Visit reinventingprofessionals.com or Ari Kaplan Advisors.com to learn more.
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