August 17, 2023 • 53 mins
In this episode, Mica interviews food photographer and cookbook author Jackie Alpers about her journey into photography and the importance of finding joy in one's work. They discuss the evolution of food photography and its accessibility as a medium, as well as the challenges of photographing certain dishes. Alpers emphasizes the value of being true to oneself and taking ownership of one's work, encouraging listeners to have conversations about art. Join us for a lively and informative discussion with one of the industry's most talented photographers.
Website: www.austinfoodguide.com/podcast
Instagram: www.instragram.com/mica.mccook
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Mica (00:00):
Welcome.
To the 30th episode.
What?
Of The Savory Shot.
Y'all, I cannot believeit's been 30 episodes.
Damn, it feels like it'sbeen 500 bazillion shows.
I feel like Brad Pitt in that movie,The Curious Case of Benjamin Button.
(00:26):
You know, when he's bornold, but he's like, a child.
That's what this show feels like.
Damn, y'all.
If this is your first time joiningthis hot mess express of a show,
allow me to introduce myself.
My name is Mica, and I'myour host with the most.
(00:48):
Man life has been so damn busy.
Gosh, I missed y'all.
I missed y'all so, so, so much.
Before I start this amazing episode.
And believe me, it isa bomb, bomb episode.
I've gotta give thanks first.
(01:08):
Y'all, I've said it once, I'llsay it again and I'll keep
saying it until y'all get it.
Y'all are the reason this show exists.
Thank you so much for being here.
Cause you could've been anywhere, doinganything, but you're here with me.
I couldn't be more grateful.
(01:31):
So thank you.
Danke schoen.
Gracias.
Yeah, that's all I know.
I should really learn how to saythank you in a few more languages
other than English, Spanish, and Ithink I said something in German.
Is that German?
I only know it because of That one song.
(01:51):
Don.
Don.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's the only reason why I know that.
So, um, if you have any, like, ifyou know any other ways to say thank
you in other languages or maybe yourlanguage, hit your girl up, spread
the knowledge, give you some help.
(02:13):
Last episode I had the funnestconversation with Evie Abler.
And y'all, that conversation,damn, it just fed my soul.
So if you have not checked that out,please, please, please, go listen to it.
I promise it's worth it.
(02:33):
But y'all, today's episode...
It's bangin Oh, it is bangin.
It's such a great show.
I know I say this every singletime, but y'all, this is, this
is my favorite interview ever.
My favorite, absolutefavorite interview ever.
.I'm just gonna jump right in.
(02:53):
Cuz yo girl is hopped up onespresso and is beyond thrilled
to talk about today's guest.
So without further ado, meetour amazing and oh so sweet
and oh so kind Jackie Alpers.
Jackie is a dynamic food photographer,recipe developer, and cookbook
(03:16):
author based in Tucson, Arizona.
Her photos are so much fun,y'all, and they're energetic, and
y'all, her recipes are delish.
Seriously, you've got to tryher French toast recipe, and I'm
gonna put it in the show notesso you can make it for yourself.
Y'all, I made this lastweekend for my husband and I.
(03:37):
We ate so good that mornin.
And we used challah bread?
It was the best.
It was the best.
Absolute best.
Having Jackie on the show,it was an absolute honor.
We talked about so so, so, so,so, so much in this episode.
(03:57):
We talked about Jackie leavingher home in Ohio to study art, her
experiences with finding moments inher work, and how you can do the same
for yourself, and how her backgroundas a waitress taught her lessons that
she carries with her to this day.
But y'all, before I get intothis, before I get ahead of
(04:19):
myself, let's start the show.
(04:59):
I just want to start by saying thank yousuper, super so much for being on the show
and for joining me on this crazy ride.
This is so awesome to have you here.
Jackie (05:09):
Thanks for having me.
I'm very excited to be here.
Mica (05:12):
Oh man, I, I tell you what, I had so much fun doing my, I call it
stalking, but the polite term is research.
And one thing that I love discoveringand learning about you is that you had
a blog and that's how I got started asa food photographer is I had a blog too.
Anytime I meet another food photographerwhose start is the same as mine.
(05:36):
I'm like, we're sisters!
We're BFFs.
I want to start this interview offbecause I've got so many things
that I know we're going to havea jam chatting about everything.
I want to start off about your beginnings.
You moved to Tucson,what was it, in 92, 93?
(05:58):
Yeah.
You were fresh with your photographydegree, so what I wanna know is what
scared you the most about that time?
Jackie (06:05):
That's a great question.
I don't know if I wasscared as much as anxious.
When you make a big change inyour life, there's an element of
excitement there, but there's alsoa little bit of anxiety about the
unknown of starting something new.
I felt like I made the rightdecision, but I really had no idea
(06:28):
what was going to happen next.
I felt like I knew I needed to leaveOhio where I grew up and where I
went to college and I needed tomove west but after that, I really
I really was just kind of open tolike the possibilities ahead of me.
And I kind of go into like uh, Iwant to say emergency mode, like
(06:56):
even if there's no emergency,I'm like, okay, what's the plan?
What am I going to do?
How am I going to make things happen?
So I go extra into like, got to get a job,got to make money, just got to survive.
It was basic kind of survivalskills, I think were at the
forefront of my mind at that time.
Mica (07:13):
Oh man, I totally feel you on the survival mode.
What was the first thing that didsettle in that checklist of yours?
Jackie (07:23):
I actually had a job before I got here at Kidco, which is an
afterschool program, teaching art tokids, which is a fabulous program,
but it paid like minimum wage andit was only like, 12 hours a week.
I was glad to have experienced that,but I knew right away that I needed
to get another job, so I had afriend suggest that I go to this
(07:47):
restaurant called El Charro Cafethat they were looking for waiters
and bussers, and I got hired there.
What's surprising about that isthat that actually became a catalyst
for everything that I'm doing now.
I'd waited tables before,for years, like in college.
But this restaurant, which is the oldestfamily owned, Mexican restaurant in the
(08:11):
United States, really taught me abouta whole new style of cuisine that I
was completely unfamiliar with and italso taught me kind of these leadership
skills that I would have never expected.
I started out as a busser and a bartender,and then I moved on to being waiter and
(08:31):
I was there for two and a half years andsince it's family owned, the family really
took me under their wing and taught mea lot about not only the cuisine, but
all aspects of running a restaurant.
And that was very surprising atit's not what I was expecting.
Mica (08:47):
You mentioned something earlier that's really great is that
that it working for this restauranttaught you a lot about leadership.
Would you say that it also taught youhow to lead a team and did that become
useful later on as a photographer?
Jackie (09:02):
Yes.
Yes and no.
The most important thing that it taughtme was how to communicate effectively
in order to get things done quickly.
Because when you're waiting tables, youare working with the kitchen, you're
working with your bus staff, you'reworking with the, completely changing
at every moment group of customersand so you really have to be able to
(09:22):
think on your feet and act quicklyand act effectively within that group.
Mica (09:29):
Gosh that makes so much sense.
I think a big reason why photographyhas worked out so well for me is
because of my background in theater,because of all the things that you
just listed, you're dealing withmany different groups of people.
You're dealing with many differentenergies, many different moods,
different personalities, and you arecommunicating to lots of different
(09:51):
groups that are all working together.
That's essentially a restaurant.
Everybody's working togetherto bring this food out to your
customer and that's what theater is.
We are all working togethercollectively to do this show.
Jackie (10:05):
Yes, that, that's exactly it.
And theater and waiting tables haveway more in common than I think people
would realize, especially improv.
I think that both of those things arereally, really tied into improv and
being able to react in the moment.
Mica (10:23):
Improv is probably one of the toughest things I've ever done.
I meet other theater lovers who arealso photographers because they bring
all of that experience and skillsinto their shoots and it makes it
a really fun thing to be a part of.
Jackie (10:41):
You know, I hadn't thought about it until you brought
it up, but you are so right.
I really wanted to be an actress fromthe time that I was in kindergarten.
I remember we did this like Thanksgiving.
Some are Indians and some arePilgrims and the whole thing.
And I was like, at that moment,deciding that I wanted to be an actress.
(11:02):
And I was really, really, held ontothat belief until I was like a senior
in high school and I was in show choir.
I realized that, that performingthe same thing over and over
again wasn't really for me.
And that I I didn't really want to bedoing somebody else's art, which at the
(11:27):
time is really what I thought theater was.
Also I couldn't figure out how I could bean actor and not be in, like, New York.
Either you're really successful oryou're, like, doing local plays.
There was no in between, you know?
So I.
I decided to go to art schoolinstead, but that love of theater
(11:50):
and that background in performinghas really contributed to who I am.
And I would not have even thought aboutit if he hadn't brought that up, so.
Mica (12:00):
We are one in the same, because that was the same struggle I had.
I was like, I don't wantto live in New York.
New York looks great, but...
It also looks ruthless andI either have New York or L.
A.
Where, where's the middle?
Jackie (12:15):
Right.
Exactly.
Mica (12:17):
I want to take it to your food blog, your past food blog.
And I actually I went on Wayback Machine.
Are you familiar with Wayback Machine?
Jackie (12:26):
Yeah.
I'm very impressed that you did that.
Mica (12:30):
I love Wayback Machine.
I found your very, I don't know if it wasyour first, was this your first recipe?
The, the, uh, vanillacinnamon french toast?
Oh, it was!
What?
Okay, that's awesome.
That's awesome.
I'm actually planning to make it,because that looked pretty bomb.
I was like, uh, I love cinnamon.
I love vanilla, and I love Frenchtoast, and I haven't had it
(12:53):
in a minute, so I'm making it.
The first thing I want toknow, is where did the name
Jackie's Happy Plate come from?
Jackie (12:59):
Well, I was at a restaurant and I kind of see plates of
food with smiles in them.
There'd be, like, two eggs for eyesand a bacon for a mouth, or whatever.
At that time, I kept seeing these,like, happy face plates of food
just randomly showing up, like,not, they weren't that on purpose.
I'd be sitting there, like, there'sa smiling face inside my breakfast.
(13:25):
I like the idea of there's alittle bit of joy on the plate
when you weren't expecting it.
Interestingly enough, I, Ijust gave that up this month.
Where I decided that after 13years, I was going to transition
that blog to just being recipes.
jackiealpers.
(13:46):
com.
I thought it was time toencapsulate everything together.
I'd always thought of the blog asbeing separate from my photography
portfolio, even though there wasalways a photography element to it.
And that the, in fact, the blog was bornfrom food photography, pretty much first,
but I just decided that it was time tomush that all into just Jackie Alpers.
(14:11):
And I, and I was sad to see it go.
I mean, it's still, you know,still up there, but, but it's,
it's, it's transitioning.
Mica (14:20):
There comes a point where you have to, or you need to decide where you're
going to put your focus and attention on.
That's essentially the crossroadsthat we came to with Let's Talk
About It, the, the food blog that Ico owned with my friend Charlotte.
We had a real sit down conversationand I said are we continuing this
(14:42):
blog because we really enjoy therecipes that we're putting out, the
community that we've built, or are wecontinuing this for nostalgic reasons?
If our heart isn't in it, and thereare other things in our lives that
are taking priority over this blog,then it is perfectly fine to call
it a day, honor the work that you'vedone, but focus your attention.
(15:07):
Was that the case for you?
Jackie (15:09):
No, because I still got all of the recipes up there and going.
It was more just realizingthat I am all of those things.
That Jackie's Happy Plate isnot separate from who I am as
a food photographer any longer.
I've realized that I'm not justJackie Alpers, the photographer.
I am Jackie Alpers, the author.
(15:31):
I am Jackie Alpers, the recipe developer.
And so to keep Jackie's HappyPlate as a separate entity
really no longer made any sense.
It didn't need to be separate.
It needed to be encapsulated.
Mica (15:44):
Jackie's Happy Plate became synonymous with you, so it doesn't
need its own space because whenpeople see Jackie's Happy Plate,
they automatically connect it to you.
I'm glad that those recipes are stillup because they're bomb as hell.
Jackie (15:58):
When I was moving everything to the new site, the photos didn't all go.
I had to re upload all the photosand I was just uploading that French
Toast photo again just last week.
So it was on my mind.
It's extra interesting that you brought itup, especially because that photo ended up
(16:18):
being the first one of my food photographsthat was featured in American Photography.
It was kind of the first bigphotography award that I got
and it was from that image whichwas an image that just happened.
I even think that that recipe anddeciding to put up that recipe was
also just something that happened.
(16:40):
That's a recipe that I've been makingyou know, forever and I, I was I was
doing the recipe like I always dowhere I was putting all the ingredients
into a bowl and I put the bread inthe bowl and I looked at what I had
there and I realized it was beautiful.
(17:02):
So I just grabbed mycamera and photographed it.
I don't even know if I would haveeven written the recipe down if I
hadn't made a photo of something that,that I really liked first, and then
realizing, hey, there's value in showingthe recipe behind the photo as well.
(17:23):
I come from a different place as alot of food bloggers where they're
like recipe, recipe, recipe first.
I was always photo first.
If I see something that piques myimagination and I want to photograph
it, at least at first, were the recipesthat I wanted to write down and share.
Mica (17:43):
Thinking from a photo first approach, did that change how you
developed recipes or how you talkedabout your recipes or food photography?
Jackie (17:56):
I think that they are so tied in with each other, even now.
Of course now I have to come up withcertain kinds of recipes, but I'm
always thinking about the image first.
If I don't think that I can get a goodphotograph from a recipe, I'll tend to not
(18:17):
do it or I'll really think about the planof like, what is this going to look like?
And do I need to change the recipein order to make an image that works?
There are some recipes that arehard to photograph and I don't
shy away from those things.
(18:38):
But I do alter the images and the recipeskind of based on what that final thing
is going to look like and vice versa.
There's a chicken and rice recipein my Taste of Tucson book that just
like It just looked like brown ona plate and I'm like, well, okay.
It's just gonna look like,we're like, what do I do?
(19:00):
Do I add a garnish?
Do I plate it differently?
Do I need to add, and I think one thing Idid was I added a little bit of a grated
cheese on the top, which kind of helpedmake it pop, and a little cilantro.
And that alters the recipe.
And also really altered the taste.
So, the recipe came out betteras a result of me wanting the
(19:24):
thing to look a certain way.
Mica (19:26):
I hate photographing chili and I avoid photographing chili at all costs.
It really is just my least favorite thing.
I remember someone asked me, they're like,why, why do you hate photographing chili?
And I'm like, cause it literallylooks like diarrhea in a bowl.
Like you can't.
I don't know, I don't even knowwhere to start to fix that up.
And they're like, well, thanks.
(19:47):
Now when I look at the chili, that'sthe visual I have in my head and I go,
yeah, so you can imagine me, a foodphotographer looking at this bowl of chili
and I'm like, yeah, that just doesn't.
Some dishes are just naturally beautiful.
And you don't need to add much to it, butfor the ones that aren't, that's where
you have to like get really creative.
And it does get frustrating,especially with like Tex Mex.
(20:09):
God, I love it.
But god, it is so hard to photographbecause of all the brown, the brown.
Heh, heh, heh, heh, heh, heh.
Jackie (20:19):
And liquid.
Anything.
Soup is hard because it's in flux.
Anything that's constantly moving.
I know it's just sitting there inthe bowl, but it's still moving
within that space, you know?
Floating around, doing its own thing.
Mica (20:35):
Like matzo ball soup.
I love matzo ball soup, but oh man,if we put a little bit of pepper
and it just moves around in thatbroth and I'm like, okay, this
would be a really cute stop motion.
But all I have is a carrot and a matzoball to work with, and some broth.
Like, what do I do with this, you know?
Jackie (20:55):
I actually, that's funny, because I have a matzo ball.
It's a bombigas, matzo ball soupin my Taste of Tucson Cookbook.
At the end, it was the very last thing.
I was like, I gotta rephotograph this.
I cannot.
I cannot let this picture be in there.
I was just like, no.
And so I just completely remade it.
(21:17):
It's always like a little bitof a puzzle, which is cool like,
how you gonna solve this one?
Sometimes you Just haveto keep redoing it.
I think one of the reasons that myphotographs have been successful
is that I tend to not give up.
Until I'm happy.
If it takes me ten times, I'm likekicking myself the whole time, like
what the heck's wrong with you, havingto do this thing over and over again?
(21:38):
But then I remind myself, you know what?
A year from now, you're not gonnaremember that you remade that
stupid matzo ball soup ten times,and it was like, How many bowls?
You're just going toremember the final image.
I try to not be hard on myselfwhen things are complicated
because that's part of the process.
You got to work through it until all thepieces come together in the right way.
(22:01):
And you don't always have that time.
If you're at a restaurant, that's acompletely different situation because
you're dealing with somebody else's food.
You're dealing with a chef who may havevery specific ideas about what they
think something is supposed to look like.
If you're lucky, you're gettingsomething that's plated kind of well,
but you still have to figure it out.
You were like, okay, this is what I got.
(22:24):
What can I do to make it work?
And is it that I turn it around?
Is it that I shoot it from another angle?
Is it that I ask them to replate it?
Because sometimes that's all you can do.
Then you have to explain to them whyand how you need it to be replated.
They don't necessarily understand that youneed some kind of visual hook in there.
(22:48):
Even if it's that one carrot, like inyour matzo ball soup, at least it's
something that brings your eye in.
And not every chef is like into hearingthat, I, I think they are more lately
because I think that they understandthe value of having a strong visual.
But yeah, as long as you're doingit kindly and giving an explanation
(23:10):
and not just like, Well, that'shideously ugly, or whatever.
Not that anyone would hopefully do that.
You have to think, you have to kind ofwork with where you are in the moment.
Mica (23:23):
You brought up such a great point earlier about chefs
not knowing how to plate food.
I have to explain to chefs that platingfood for consumption is so different
than plating it for photography.
And when I usually say that tothem, they, they kind of get it.
(23:44):
They're like, okay, they're a littlebit more open to receiving it.
What's the most surprising thing thatyou've learned about working with chefs?
Jackie (23:52):
Well, they vary a lot.
Just like anything else.
I've had chefs who were convinced thatit was okay to bring out completely
cold dish that had like congealed sauce.
Because it was going to look okay inthe photograph, and that they would
have been taught that they don't needto cook the food through for a photo.
(24:16):
I don't know.
I don't know where the hell I had.
Mica (24:18):
Who said that?
If you're listening, stop it.
Stop it.
Jackie (24:26):
Don't serve anything to the viewer that you wouldn't serve to a customer.
That's what I ended up tellingpeople because I was really surprised
that anyone would ever think that.
People can tell if a pieceof meat is not cooked.
Mica (24:40):
Yeah, I'm not gonna look at that raw steak and be like, yeah,
I want to eat that raw steak.
No, it needs, I needsome char marks, okay?
Like, please cook the damn thing.
Make it look cooked, please.
I want to take it to an interviewthat you did with Muse world and
you described your photography styleas dynamic relatable fun And I love
(25:03):
that you chose the word dynamic.
I'm curious, what inspired youto choose dynamic as one of the
words to describe your style?
Jackie (25:11):
That's a great question.
To me dynamic means that theimages have a certain energy and
to them and that they're visuallystraightforward design wise.
When I think of something as beingdynamic, I feel like there's a presence
there, that you can pick up on and thatthat's accentuated by strong visual.
Mica (25:36):
The one thing that drove me nuts about photography school
is they always talked about yourstyle, your style, your style.
You know, trends come andgo, but style is forever.
And I'm like, I don't knowwhat the fuck that means.
And I do now because...
My style did develop and I learnedthings that I really like and how
(25:58):
the lighting style that I love tophotograph in and it became, over
the years, my style developed.
And a lot of me figuring that partof myself out had to do with my
blog, with Let's Talk About It.
My question for you is, did your styledevelop from Jackie's Happy Plate?
Where did your style develop from andwhen did you discover that you like to
(26:23):
create dynamic, fun, and relatable images?
Jackie (26:27):
My style evolved from looking at the work of photographers that
I liked and trying to incorporateaspects of the things that I saw
that I liked into my own work.
But anytime anyone does that, unlessyou're some kind of genius, which I'm
(26:51):
not, you can't really recreate the work ofsomebody else, no matter how hard you try.
There's something about the processthat no matter what you do, you're
gonna incorporate some aspectof your individuality into that.
I saw the trends.
As I'm looking at work that I likeand thinking about why I like it and
(27:15):
trying to incorporate that into my ownwork and seeing what the results are,
that's really how my style developedbecause then I would say, okay,
well, here's what this looks like.
What am I going to do next?
It's almost like my styleevolved from my own work.
(27:38):
Once I started thinking about whatI liked in other people's work and I
started incorporating that into my work,then I would hold on to the things that
I saw in my own images that I liked.
I started to reincorporatethem going forward.
So it came to this process thatI think a lot of art students do.
(27:59):
Is you learn about art history and youlearn about why it's important and why
it works and what you love about it.
And then you take that inspirationand you incorporate it into like what
you think you want to do and you grow.
But you get to a point whereit's no longer about the thing
that you loved in the beginning.
(28:20):
It is still, you can still lovethose things, but after making
enough of your own work, it juststarts to take on a life of its own.
Mica (28:29):
That is super duper true about looking at other photographers work,
discovering what it is that you likeabout theirs, but I never imagined
that developing a style can comefrom your own work as an artist.
That makes so much more senseto me than anything else.
Because especially in those beginneryears, we are looking at other
(28:51):
people's work and we are tryingto emulate what they're doing.
And it doesn't perfectly comeout that way, but then we
discover, I like this better.
I avoid the tutorials thatteach you like how to do bright
and airy, bright or whatever.
Or dark and moody, how to do hardlight photography, that type of thing.
I avoid those types of tutorialsbecause I like to go in the studio
(29:16):
and try to figure it out for myself.
I'm going to look at the photo.
I'm going to analyze it.
I'm going to study it.
And I'm going to look at thelight and think about, well, what
did they do to accomplish this?
And then once I have like an ideaor game plan in my brain, then I go
in the studio and I try to do it.
What advice would you give tophotographers who are struggling to
(29:40):
learn their style or what they likeand finding their place in this world.
Jackie (29:45):
A whole bunch of stuff started coming in my head when you said that.
Cause you started talkingabout the light and bright.
Was like, oh, you know what?
There have been things thatI've tried to do and when I was
doing it, I was not enjoying it.
I don't really like trying tofigure out how to use strobes.
Because first of all, I want tosee what's happening in the moment.
If I'm gonna light something.
(30:07):
I don't want to have a flash.
I realize okay, I don'tneed to learn strobes.
I don't even have to learn this likefancy whatever lighting things with all
you know, all that stuff is like It'slike, I'm not really interested in that,
and when I was doing it, I was hating it.
And that is an important clue.
If I'm not enjoying doing this,then that's not right for me.
(30:29):
If you think that you have to makesomething to fit in with some idealized
version of what you think a photographis supposed to be, and then you're doing
it, and you're hating it, or it just,it's not what, what you, who you are,
then that's not what you, that's not you.
Some people think that food photographyis supposed to be this very specific
(30:50):
thing, and I do see a lot of of bloggersin particular who have all decided
that food photography is supposedto look this very specific way.
Not only is that boring,but it's also untrue.
There's so much foodphotography out there right now.
Not everybody doing foodphotography is a food photographer.
It's fine if that's what you needto illustrate whatever's on your
(31:13):
blog or whatever, but it's notreally what makes you a valuable
food photographer other than that.
So don't get caught up in what youthink you're supposed to do or what
you think the world wants from you.
It's important to a point, youknow, like if everybody hates
(31:35):
it, well then you're screwed.
Mica (31:37):
You're creating photos for yourself.
Jackie (31:41):
There's nothing wrong with that kind of, but you have to kind
of find a middle ground shirt.
Mica (31:47):
You raise such a great point about doing what you
enjoy and what works for you.
There will always be aclient looking for that.
Today there's so much opportunitythat you can be a little bit
more choosy about what you do.
And it makes no sense if you don'tenjoy doing strobes, then don't do them.
(32:08):
And don't market yourself toclients who expect you to do them.
Go find assignments thatare more tailored to that.
If you do enjoy strobes and the thoughtof like walking into a restaurant
terrifies you because you don't knowwhat the lighting situation is going
to be like, then don't do that.
You can find clients that wantto be in a studio with strobes.
(32:29):
Like you can choose whatand how you create art.
It's just not one, one rule.
Jackie (32:38):
When I first graduated from art school, it never even occurred to
me that I could be a food photographerbecause food photography was all this
weirdly, completely fake in studio,images of like ice cream made out of
mashed potatoes or everything was likeshellacked literally was shellacked with
(32:59):
like this really harsh lighting and itwas this like really techie weird thing.
Like In 1993 food photographywas very different.
It's completely evolved and changed sincethe invention of the iPhone for one,
you know, and the fact that everybody'sgot a camera with them all the time
and the invention of, of, of blogging.
(33:19):
I mean, really food photography is acompletely different medium than it
was when I was in art school, which iswhy I didn't know that I could be one.
What's interesting about it is thatyou don't know what's going to happen.
You don't know where yourlife's going to take you.
But I would have never guessedthat that's where I would be.
I don't know where what food photographyit's gonna be like five years from now.
(33:42):
Maybe it's all gonna be robots,you know AI it's gonna take over
and your camera's gonna decide,you know with the photograph.
Mica (33:52):
I am one of the most futuristic people.
I see something and I'm like, hell yeah,how can I use that as a photographer?
How can I incorporate that in my workflow?
And so, uh, uh, Elon.
Whoever, I don't think Elon's smartenough to do it, but maybe he has enough
money to hire the people to do it.
Whoever is building a robot,can you like, put a move on it?
(34:14):
Cause your girl needs, needs arobot to hang lights and stuff.
Jackie (34:18):
Love the idea of technology advancing so that it's helping
me solve problems that I don'treally need to have that much.
I mean, I need to know like, what isthe thing I wanted to have in focus, but
that I know it's going to do it for me.
Mica (34:33):
That would be freaking wonderful.
One of the struggles that I faced whenI got into food photography, and I
don't know if it's like starting to goaway or whatever, I don't know, but,
I had a new photographer reach out tome and they're like, so I, I noticed
that you got your start as a, as a foodblogger, and they're like, don't like
(34:55):
to cook, but I do love food photography.
Do I have to have a food blog inorder to be a food photographer?
And I told him, absolutely not.
I know that working on your foodblog that allowed you to develop and
grow as a, as a food photographer.
Has that role in food blogging changed?
(35:15):
Has food blogging becomesynonymous with food photography?
When people think of food photography,do they think automatically food blog?
Or do you think the tideis changing on that?
Jackie (35:30):
To some extent, when they think of food blogging, yeah, they,
they expect to see photography, unlessyou're a really good illustrator.
Now is food photographyonly about blogging?
Heck no.
I think people kind of forget.
We still need foodphotography for advertising.
We still need it for products.
We still need it for packagingand you need a certain degree
(35:53):
of professionalism to be ableto pull something like that off.
Mica (35:57):
I want to take it to that same interview that you did with Muse.
You listed your favorite quotefrom Diane Arbus is the bomb.
com.
You need to go like studyeverything she's ever created.
Everything, everything.
But, the quote that she said isI work from awkwardness by that.
I mean, I don't like to arrange things.
(36:18):
If I stand in front of something, insteadof arranging it, I arrange myself.
The question I have for you iswhat drew you to this quote from
Diane and how does it resonatewith your approach to photography?
Jackie (36:30):
Oh, I love this.
It's because it all comesback to you, the photographer.
I'm going to say it's thatit's not, it's that it's not.
You, it's me approach.
I think as a photographer, youcan't be like, it's your fault.
You're not doing what I need you to do.
You need to be doing something else.
(36:51):
It's like, no dude, you need,I'm the one that needs to change.
If I don't like what I'm seeing, Ineed to change something about myself
in order to get what it is that I'mlooking for, for what I'm experiencing.
Because if you think aboutphotography, everything is just
a series of moments captured.
And so, um, sorry, give me a second.
(37:14):
My phone.
Siri.
And then so I'm waiting up and thenasking me what I want and I'm like, I
need to enunciate it better, and if I saysomething where it thinks to be it, poof.
And I think I'm asking Sirito help me find something.
Mica (37:31):
Siri pops up when you don't need her ass, and then when you are clearly
saying her name, she is no where around.
You're like Siri, hey sit, sit,where the fuck are you Siri?
Jackie (37:46):
So, a series of moments,
It's up to you to find that momentwithin the series of moments.
And that's what Diane Arbus didamazingly well, and especially
because she's shooting film, right?
She's got, you know, whatever, 12 or 24frames in order to wait and experience
(38:11):
the moment as it's happening and capturingit based on her own personal experience.
And that is what photography is all about.
It's about you deciding, okay, well,what I'm seeing is is up to me and when I
choose to click that shutter is up to me.
And if I take a step to the left, howis that going to change what I'm seeing?
(38:34):
If I wait five seconds, how is what,what is happening going to change?
So that is why I love that quote, becauseit puts the responsibility solely on the
photographer instead of trying to blamethe subject for whatever's going on.
(38:55):
And then God don't even try and blamefood because food is not listening.
Mica (39:01):
You're like, why does this look bad?
You're making it look bad.
Move your body!
Change positions.
Do something.
Try something.
Jackie (39:10):
Talk for that.
Do anything.
Don't, but don't be a victim.
Don't be a victim to that sandwich.
Mica (39:17):
I love that we're taking that ownership.
It goes back to what you weresaying about creating your own art.
You know, you are taking ownership overthe thing that you are photographing,
the subject that you're photographing.
I mean, that's great.
Jackie (39:30):
And you're also existing in that moment.
Basically, photography is about youliving your life in that moment.
You're there.
You're experiencing something.
Every single second has the opportunityto be captured or not captured.
It's what you do withthat second that counts.
Or a fraction of a second.
(39:51):
I mean, you know, you're shootinga 60th, 100th of a second.
Think about how many things happen.
In a second, if you're shootingat a hundredth of a second and
how many opportunities you have toexperience that moment visually.
Mica (40:06):
I bought this camera.
It's a called paper shoot camera.
It's like a disposable camera.
All the images are shot to a SDcard but it is a very simple camera.
It has a little viewfinder, you pressa little button, it has four switches,
you can either shoot like in a regularwhite balance, a cool white balance.
(40:30):
It has a black and white and then it has, sepia, sepia, sepia, one of those words.
And that's it.
You can't see what the photo looks like.
There's no viewfinder to look through.
You just, it's like a disposable camera.
It operates and it's thin.
It's like paper thin.
Jackie (40:46):
Cool.
I've not heard of this thingand it's very interesting.
Mica (40:50):
In my opinion, I think it's a little overpriced.
It's a, it's an expensive toy.
I took it with me on my trip.
My husband and I went to Galveston,Texas for our anniversary and
normally I take my, my DSLR with mebut this time I decided I am going
to rely on my iPhone and I'm goingto rely on this paper shoot camera.
(41:12):
With the paper shoot camera,there's nothing to look at.
You take the picture and you just hopefor the best that you got exactly what
it is that you're there to photograph.
You really are dependent onwhatever lighting is present.
And that was really hard for me to do,but your point about being present in
(41:33):
the moment, taking ownership of whateveryou're photographing, it just reminded
me so much of that paper shoot camera.
You did an interview with James Robinsonon his blog and you mentioned that you
wait and watch for unexpected momentsto capture during your shoots and you
expressed that before and I love that.
(41:54):
What was the time when this approachled to a particularly memorable image?
Jackie (42:00):
This is kind of the theme of what we've been talking about today,
is that sometimes it's important tolet life happen and to slow down and
take things in and watch and wait.
Don't try and force something thatisn't happening or don't miss something
(42:22):
important that's happening justbecause that wasn't part of the plan.
The reason that that French Toastphoto was an important lesson for me
was because I was just starting todecide what I wanted to do with food
photography and it presented itself to me.
(42:42):
That photo presented itself to me.
That's just my usual way of makingthat recipe, but the way that I
happened to put the Cinnamon and thevanilla in with the egg, it it created
this reaction, you know the way thatthe the solids and the liquids were
interacting with each other in a waythat made it almost like handmade paper.
(43:03):
It was just happened to be, like,science, science, project in the making,
just a little, like, all on its own.
If I hadn't been aware, and Ihadn't been looking and watching,
I I could have missed it.
I realized that it was moreimportant to stop what I was doing.
Go get my camera and photographthis thing, then to actually
make the French toast.
(43:25):
As we've been talking about, life isa series of moments, and if you're
not paying attention, you couldmiss something really valuable.
Mica (43:32):
Oh, for sure.
For sure.
There's one photographer,that comes to mind.
Jamie Livingston.
He took a Polaroid a day, and he didit from 1979 until he died in 1997.
, His friend did an interview about him,and said that Jamie would take one
(43:54):
photo, and he, he meant one photo,and there were like moments where the
two of them would be hanging out, andhe would tell him, Jamie, this would
be a great photo of the day, and he'dlike, It was very nonchalant about it.
It was like a checklist like, Ah!
I already took a photo of my coffee.
He was like, more aboutliving in the present.
He never planned whatwas a photo of the day.
(44:17):
It was one moment out of each day.
And once it was done, it was done.
There was no, Oh, thiswould be a better moment.
It was like, no, this is the momentthat I've chosen for this day.
Our conversation very much heavilyrevolves around living in the moment.
Jamie Livingston remindsme so much of that.
I have two more questions for you.
(44:39):
This has been, I've loved everythingabout today's conversation.
Jackie (44:43):
this, This conversation is reminding me how much I
love to talk about photography.
Not just photography, you know,whatever, but the art of photography
and talking about the inspirationbehind photography, where I think
photography has become so commonplacethat it's easy to forget that it is art.
(45:05):
And it is science.
Mica (45:06):
It is science and it is art.
When I was developing this podcast andthinking about the types of conversations
that I wanted to have, I wanteddefinitely for it to be educational,
but I also believe that there aredifferent kinds of education that we
can get from people's personal stories.
(45:26):
I know that with this podcast,I'm not going to talk about, how
to get your foot in the door.
It's like, there are so manyother podcasts that focus on that.
I'm very much interested in the personand their journeys, and there are lessons
to be learned through the person andthe journeys that they've gone through.
And so I, love to talk about photography,definitely from an artistic standpoint,
(45:48):
because like you said, it is an art.
We are artists, and it's importantthat we can talk about our art
in an open conversation and notjust the business side of it.
That is an important part of photography.
Sure.
But ultimately, you are an artist and weneed to be able to talk about it and talk
(46:09):
openly and freely and nerdily about it.
Those are conversations that we need tobe had So I love this conversation so much
and I'm glad that we're here on this show.
You did an interview with Gorman Dyes andyou mentioned that when you started out as
a photographer, the images were most mademostly by male commercial photographers.
(46:31):
What I'd like to know is how hasthe industry changed in terms
of representation and diversity?
Or has it changed at all, do you think?
Jackie (46:41):
I think that food photography was coming from a completely different
place, where it was like these peoplewho had spoke mostly men who had gone
through this very techie experience,so like it was more like a trade
school situation that tends to be alittle bit more, more male oriented.
(47:02):
So it started with people coming from thisvery specific background, and now it's
become more of for the people in general.
As a result of that, it's only naturalthat there would be more diversity.
Mica (47:18):
You said earlier about how it was very technical.
This is a prop.
This is this.
This is a product.
There's no personality or personalties to this photo as today.
Photographers A lot of the workthat they do, or that we do, is
tied in with who we are as a person.
It's a very personal medium thatagain, ties into ourselves as art.
Jackie (47:44):
In the 90s you were in the 50s 60s on forever, if you wanted
to be a professional photographer,you had to have a studio you had
to have a lot of lighting yet.
It was really veryexpensive and very specific.
And what photography is as we've beentalking about here today has really
evolved in a way that many more peoplecan actually do it than could before.
(48:08):
And I think that comes back towhat that whole question that you
were asking of when I did thatinterview and they're like, what was
photography and how has it evolvedwas like, well, it's evolved a lot.
I mean, it is nothing reallylike where, where it began.
And that's what's amazing about it.
It's become more of amedium for the people.
(48:31):
Just like if you're gonna be a writer,all you really need is a piece of
paper, and a pen, you don't evenneed a computer to be able to write.
If you have the vision, if youhave the creativity, then you
can make something of yourself.
But it's all again, comes back toyou and who you are as an individual
and what makes you special.
Mica (48:52):
And taking that ownership, like you said, taking that ownership.
It's really just taking ownership ofyou, your art, and what speaks to you.
I love that we're talking about this andshining a light on this because I think
it's important that new photographersunderstand that the bells and the
(49:12):
whistles don't make you the photographer.
You make you the photographer.
You operate that camera.
It doesn't operate you.
Jackie (49:19):
It's the same with the guy who was doing the Polaroids every day.
Polaroid was the most accessible formof photography for a very long time.
When I was like a little kid, my dadhad a Polaroid camera and he took
photos that I still love and it doesn'tmake the photos That, that guy took
(49:42):
every day any less art, in fact, it'sjust as much art as anything else.
The iPhone has kind of taken overin that sense, especially because,
oh my God, what's happened with theiPhone, even in the, in the past couple
of years, where you can shoot raw.
Everybody has that opportunity, justlike everybody has the opportunity to be.
To have a pen and paper if they,if they want and be able to write.
(50:05):
It doesn't make it anyless important of a medium.
It makes it more exciting becauseeverybody has an opportunity.
Mica (50:14):
What do you hope the listeners...
takeaway from today's episode?
Jackie (50:18):
Well, I want to say thank you because this has been awesome.
This has really reminded me whyhaving these kinds of conversations
about photography is so important.
And that's one of the thingsI want them to take away,
which is like, talk about it.
Have that conversation.
Talk about art with your friends.
Talk about what's exciting to you.
(50:41):
With people you're close toand be able to brainstorm and
imagine all the possibilities.
Mica (50:48):
Jackie, this has been fantastic.
Where can the listenersfind you and support you?
and stalk you like I did?
Jackie (51:00):
My website website's jackie alpers.com.
I have a cookbook coming out inOctober, which is the unofficial
Yellowstone cookbook, which isrecipes that were inspired by the
television show Yellowstone that Iphotographed myself, and that I was
(51:22):
inspired by some of the visuals onYellowstone, which are I'll pretty cool.
That's available for pre order on Amazon.
It'll be out in October.
My current cookbook Tasteof Tucson is also available.
I think both of those are really goodexamples of where I am creatively
and collaboratively with people.
But it's all up on mywebsite, jackieoppers.
(51:44):
com.
There's a link to my recipes, andthank you again for this opportunity.
It's been really, really, not just eyeopening, but it's like heartwarming
in a way to remember what I love aboutphotography and to be able to communicate
that as part of a conversation with you.
Mica (52:03):
I thrive on those, these types of conversations.
I really do.
Are you on Instagram as well?
Jackie (52:08):
Yes.
Also at Jackie Alpers.
J A C K I E A L P likePaul, E R S like Sam.
Mica (52:17):
Well, y'all go follow and I'm, I'm about to go get y'all cookbooks
because I love the cookbooks and um,thank you again for being on the show.
Welcome.
To the 30th episode.
What?
Of The Savory Shot.
Y'all, I cannot believeit's been 30 episodes.
Damn, it feels like it'sbeen 500 bazillion shows.
I feel like Brad Pitt in that movie,The Curious Case of Benjamin Button.
(00:26):
You know, when he's bornold, but he's like, a child.
That's what this show feels like.
Damn, y'all.
If this is your first time joiningthis hot mess express of a show,
allow me to introduce myself.
My name is Mica, and I'myour host with the most.
(00:48):
Man life has been so damn busy.
Gosh, I missed y'all.
I missed y'all so, so, so much.
Before I start this amazing episode.
And believe me, it isa bomb, bomb episode.
I've gotta give thanks first.
(01:08):
Y'all, I've said it once, I'llsay it again and I'll keep
saying it until y'all get it.
Y'all are the reason this show exists.
Thank you so much for being here.
Cause you could've been anywhere, doinganything, but you're here with me.
I couldn't be more grateful.
(01:31):
So thank you.
Danke schoen.
Gracias.
Yeah, that's all I know.
I should really learn how to saythank you in a few more languages
other than English, Spanish, and Ithink I said something in German.
Is that German?
I only know it because of That one song.
(01:51):
Don.
Don.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's the only reason why I know that.
So, um, if you have any, like, ifyou know any other ways to say thank
you in other languages or maybe yourlanguage, hit your girl up, spread
the knowledge, give you some help.
(02:13):
Last episode I had the funnestconversation with Evie Abler.
And y'all, that conversation,damn, it just fed my soul.
So if you have not checked that out,please, please, please, go listen to it.
I promise it's worth it.
(02:33):
But y'all, today's episode...
It's bangin Oh, it is bangin.
It's such a great show.
I know I say this every singletime, but y'all, this is, this
is my favorite interview ever.
My favorite, absolutefavorite interview ever.
.I'm just gonna jump right in.
(02:53):
Cuz yo girl is hopped up onespresso and is beyond thrilled
to talk about today's guest.
So without further ado, meetour amazing and oh so sweet
and oh so kind Jackie Alpers.
Jackie is a dynamic food photographer,recipe developer, and cookbook
(03:16):
author based in Tucson, Arizona.
Her photos are so much fun,y'all, and they're energetic, and
y'all, her recipes are delish.
Seriously, you've got to tryher French toast recipe, and I'm
gonna put it in the show notesso you can make it for yourself.
Y'all, I made this lastweekend for my husband and I.
(03:37):
We ate so good that mornin.
And we used challah bread?
It was the best.
It was the best.
Absolute best.
Having Jackie on the show,it was an absolute honor.
We talked about so so, so, so,so, so much in this episode.
(03:57):
We talked about Jackie leavingher home in Ohio to study art, her
experiences with finding moments inher work, and how you can do the same
for yourself, and how her backgroundas a waitress taught her lessons that
she carries with her to this day.
But y'all, before I get intothis, before I get ahead of
(04:19):
myself, let's start the show.
(04:59):
I just want to start by saying thank yousuper, super so much for being on the show
and for joining me on this crazy ride.
This is so awesome to have you here.
Jackie (05:09):
Thanks for having me.
I'm very excited to be here.
Mica (05:12):
Oh man, I, I tell you what, I had so much fun doing my, I call it
stalking, but the polite term is research.
And one thing that I love discoveringand learning about you is that you had
a blog and that's how I got started asa food photographer is I had a blog too.
Anytime I meet another food photographerwhose start is the same as mine.
(05:36):
I'm like, we're sisters!
We're BFFs.
I want to start this interview offbecause I've got so many things
that I know we're going to havea jam chatting about everything.
I want to start off about your beginnings.
You moved to Tucson,what was it, in 92, 93?
(05:58):
Yeah.
You were fresh with your photographydegree, so what I wanna know is what
scared you the most about that time?
Jackie (06:05):
That's a great question.
I don't know if I wasscared as much as anxious.
When you make a big change inyour life, there's an element of
excitement there, but there's alsoa little bit of anxiety about the
unknown of starting something new.
I felt like I made the rightdecision, but I really had no idea
(06:28):
what was going to happen next.
I felt like I knew I needed to leaveOhio where I grew up and where I
went to college and I needed tomove west but after that, I really
I really was just kind of open tolike the possibilities ahead of me.
And I kind of go into like uh, Iwant to say emergency mode, like
(06:56):
even if there's no emergency,I'm like, okay, what's the plan?
What am I going to do?
How am I going to make things happen?
So I go extra into like, got to get a job,got to make money, just got to survive.
It was basic kind of survivalskills, I think were at the
forefront of my mind at that time.
Mica (07:13):
Oh man, I totally feel you on the survival mode.
What was the first thing that didsettle in that checklist of yours?
Jackie (07:23):
I actually had a job before I got here at Kidco, which is an
afterschool program, teaching art tokids, which is a fabulous program,
but it paid like minimum wage andit was only like, 12 hours a week.
I was glad to have experienced that,but I knew right away that I needed
to get another job, so I had afriend suggest that I go to this
(07:47):
restaurant called El Charro Cafethat they were looking for waiters
and bussers, and I got hired there.
What's surprising about that isthat that actually became a catalyst
for everything that I'm doing now.
I'd waited tables before,for years, like in college.
But this restaurant, which is the oldestfamily owned, Mexican restaurant in the
(08:11):
United States, really taught me abouta whole new style of cuisine that I
was completely unfamiliar with and italso taught me kind of these leadership
skills that I would have never expected.
I started out as a busser and a bartender,and then I moved on to being waiter and
(08:31):
I was there for two and a half years andsince it's family owned, the family really
took me under their wing and taught mea lot about not only the cuisine, but
all aspects of running a restaurant.
And that was very surprising atit's not what I was expecting.
Mica (08:47):
You mentioned something earlier that's really great is that
that it working for this restauranttaught you a lot about leadership.
Would you say that it also taught youhow to lead a team and did that become
useful later on as a photographer?
Jackie (09:02):
Yes.
Yes and no.
The most important thing that it taughtme was how to communicate effectively
in order to get things done quickly.
Because when you're waiting tables, youare working with the kitchen, you're
working with your bus staff, you'reworking with the, completely changing
at every moment group of customersand so you really have to be able to
(09:22):
think on your feet and act quicklyand act effectively within that group.
Mica (09:29):
Gosh that makes so much sense.
I think a big reason why photographyhas worked out so well for me is
because of my background in theater,because of all the things that you
just listed, you're dealing withmany different groups of people.
You're dealing with many differentenergies, many different moods,
different personalities, and you arecommunicating to lots of different
(09:51):
groups that are all working together.
That's essentially a restaurant.
Everybody's working togetherto bring this food out to your
customer and that's what theater is.
We are all working togethercollectively to do this show.
Jackie (10:05):
Yes, that, that's exactly it.
And theater and waiting tables haveway more in common than I think people
would realize, especially improv.
I think that both of those things arereally, really tied into improv and
being able to react in the moment.
Mica (10:23):
Improv is probably one of the toughest things I've ever done.
I meet other theater lovers who arealso photographers because they bring
all of that experience and skillsinto their shoots and it makes it
a really fun thing to be a part of.
Jackie (10:41):
You know, I hadn't thought about it until you brought
it up, but you are so right.
I really wanted to be an actress fromthe time that I was in kindergarten.
I remember we did this like Thanksgiving.
Some are Indians and some arePilgrims and the whole thing.
And I was like, at that moment,deciding that I wanted to be an actress.
(11:02):
And I was really, really, held ontothat belief until I was like a senior
in high school and I was in show choir.
I realized that, that performingthe same thing over and over
again wasn't really for me.
And that I I didn't really want to bedoing somebody else's art, which at the
(11:27):
time is really what I thought theater was.
Also I couldn't figure out how I could bean actor and not be in, like, New York.
Either you're really successful oryou're, like, doing local plays.
There was no in between, you know?
So I.
I decided to go to art schoolinstead, but that love of theater
(11:50):
and that background in performinghas really contributed to who I am.
And I would not have even thought aboutit if he hadn't brought that up, so.
Mica (12:00):
We are one in the same, because that was the same struggle I had.
I was like, I don't wantto live in New York.
New York looks great, but...
It also looks ruthless andI either have New York or L.
A.
Where, where's the middle?
Jackie (12:15):
Right.
Exactly.
Mica (12:17):
I want to take it to your food blog, your past food blog.
And I actually I went on Wayback Machine.
Are you familiar with Wayback Machine?
Jackie (12:26):
Yeah.
I'm very impressed that you did that.
Mica (12:30):
I love Wayback Machine.
I found your very, I don't know if it wasyour first, was this your first recipe?
The, the, uh, vanillacinnamon french toast?
Oh, it was!
What?
Okay, that's awesome.
That's awesome.
I'm actually planning to make it,because that looked pretty bomb.
I was like, uh, I love cinnamon.
I love vanilla, and I love Frenchtoast, and I haven't had it
(12:53):
in a minute, so I'm making it.
The first thing I want toknow, is where did the name
Jackie's Happy Plate come from?
Jackie (12:59):
Well, I was at a restaurant and I kind of see plates of
food with smiles in them.
There'd be, like, two eggs for eyesand a bacon for a mouth, or whatever.
At that time, I kept seeing these,like, happy face plates of food
just randomly showing up, like,not, they weren't that on purpose.
I'd be sitting there, like, there'sa smiling face inside my breakfast.
(13:25):
I like the idea of there's alittle bit of joy on the plate
when you weren't expecting it.
Interestingly enough, I, Ijust gave that up this month.
Where I decided that after 13years, I was going to transition
that blog to just being recipes.
jackiealpers.
(13:46):
com.
I thought it was time toencapsulate everything together.
I'd always thought of the blog asbeing separate from my photography
portfolio, even though there wasalways a photography element to it.
And that the, in fact, the blog was bornfrom food photography, pretty much first,
but I just decided that it was time tomush that all into just Jackie Alpers.
(14:11):
And I, and I was sad to see it go.
I mean, it's still, you know,still up there, but, but it's,
it's, it's transitioning.
Mica (14:20):
There comes a point where you have to, or you need to decide where you're
going to put your focus and attention on.
That's essentially the crossroadsthat we came to with Let's Talk
About It, the, the food blog that Ico owned with my friend Charlotte.
We had a real sit down conversationand I said are we continuing this
(14:42):
blog because we really enjoy therecipes that we're putting out, the
community that we've built, or are wecontinuing this for nostalgic reasons?
If our heart isn't in it, and thereare other things in our lives that
are taking priority over this blog,then it is perfectly fine to call
it a day, honor the work that you'vedone, but focus your attention.
(15:07):
Was that the case for you?
Jackie (15:09):
No, because I still got all of the recipes up there and going.
It was more just realizingthat I am all of those things.
That Jackie's Happy Plate isnot separate from who I am as
a food photographer any longer.
I've realized that I'm not justJackie Alpers, the photographer.
I am Jackie Alpers, the author.
(15:31):
I am Jackie Alpers, the recipe developer.
And so to keep Jackie's HappyPlate as a separate entity
really no longer made any sense.
It didn't need to be separate.
It needed to be encapsulated.
Mica (15:44):
Jackie's Happy Plate became synonymous with you, so it doesn't
need its own space because whenpeople see Jackie's Happy Plate,
they automatically connect it to you.
I'm glad that those recipes are stillup because they're bomb as hell.
Jackie (15:58):
When I was moving everything to the new site, the photos didn't all go.
I had to re upload all the photosand I was just uploading that French
Toast photo again just last week.
So it was on my mind.
It's extra interesting that you brought itup, especially because that photo ended up
(16:18):
being the first one of my food photographsthat was featured in American Photography.
It was kind of the first bigphotography award that I got
and it was from that image whichwas an image that just happened.
I even think that that recipe anddeciding to put up that recipe was
also just something that happened.
(16:40):
That's a recipe that I've been makingyou know, forever and I, I was I was
doing the recipe like I always dowhere I was putting all the ingredients
into a bowl and I put the bread inthe bowl and I looked at what I had
there and I realized it was beautiful.
(17:02):
So I just grabbed mycamera and photographed it.
I don't even know if I would haveeven written the recipe down if I
hadn't made a photo of something that,that I really liked first, and then
realizing, hey, there's value in showingthe recipe behind the photo as well.
(17:23):
I come from a different place as alot of food bloggers where they're
like recipe, recipe, recipe first.
I was always photo first.
If I see something that piques myimagination and I want to photograph
it, at least at first, were the recipesthat I wanted to write down and share.
Mica (17:43):
Thinking from a photo first approach, did that change how you
developed recipes or how you talkedabout your recipes or food photography?
Jackie (17:56):
I think that they are so tied in with each other, even now.
Of course now I have to come up withcertain kinds of recipes, but I'm
always thinking about the image first.
If I don't think that I can get a goodphotograph from a recipe, I'll tend to not
(18:17):
do it or I'll really think about the planof like, what is this going to look like?
And do I need to change the recipein order to make an image that works?
There are some recipes that arehard to photograph and I don't
shy away from those things.
(18:38):
But I do alter the images and the recipeskind of based on what that final thing
is going to look like and vice versa.
There's a chicken and rice recipein my Taste of Tucson book that just
like It just looked like brown ona plate and I'm like, well, okay.
It's just gonna look like,we're like, what do I do?
(19:00):
Do I add a garnish?
Do I plate it differently?
Do I need to add, and I think one thing Idid was I added a little bit of a grated
cheese on the top, which kind of helpedmake it pop, and a little cilantro.
And that alters the recipe.
And also really altered the taste.
So, the recipe came out betteras a result of me wanting the
(19:24):
thing to look a certain way.
Mica (19:26):
I hate photographing chili and I avoid photographing chili at all costs.
It really is just my least favorite thing.
I remember someone asked me, they're like,why, why do you hate photographing chili?
And I'm like, cause it literallylooks like diarrhea in a bowl.
Like you can't.
I don't know, I don't even knowwhere to start to fix that up.
And they're like, well, thanks.
(19:47):
Now when I look at the chili, that'sthe visual I have in my head and I go,
yeah, so you can imagine me, a foodphotographer looking at this bowl of chili
and I'm like, yeah, that just doesn't.
Some dishes are just naturally beautiful.
And you don't need to add much to it, butfor the ones that aren't, that's where
you have to like get really creative.
And it does get frustrating,especially with like Tex Mex.
(20:09):
God, I love it.
But god, it is so hard to photographbecause of all the brown, the brown.
Heh, heh, heh, heh, heh, heh.
Jackie (20:19):
And liquid.
Anything.
Soup is hard because it's in flux.
Anything that's constantly moving.
I know it's just sitting there inthe bowl, but it's still moving
within that space, you know?
Floating around, doing its own thing.
Mica (20:35):
Like matzo ball soup.
I love matzo ball soup, but oh man,if we put a little bit of pepper
and it just moves around in thatbroth and I'm like, okay, this
would be a really cute stop motion.
But all I have is a carrot and a matzoball to work with, and some broth.
Like, what do I do with this, you know?
Jackie (20:55):
I actually, that's funny, because I have a matzo ball.
It's a bombigas, matzo ball soupin my Taste of Tucson Cookbook.
At the end, it was the very last thing.
I was like, I gotta rephotograph this.
I cannot.
I cannot let this picture be in there.
I was just like, no.
And so I just completely remade it.
(21:17):
It's always like a little bitof a puzzle, which is cool like,
how you gonna solve this one?
Sometimes you Just haveto keep redoing it.
I think one of the reasons that myphotographs have been successful
is that I tend to not give up.
Until I'm happy.
If it takes me ten times, I'm likekicking myself the whole time, like
what the heck's wrong with you, havingto do this thing over and over again?
(21:38):
But then I remind myself, you know what?
A year from now, you're not gonnaremember that you remade that
stupid matzo ball soup ten times,and it was like, How many bowls?
You're just going toremember the final image.
I try to not be hard on myselfwhen things are complicated
because that's part of the process.
You got to work through it until all thepieces come together in the right way.
(22:01):
And you don't always have that time.
If you're at a restaurant, that's acompletely different situation because
you're dealing with somebody else's food.
You're dealing with a chef who may havevery specific ideas about what they
think something is supposed to look like.
If you're lucky, you're gettingsomething that's plated kind of well,
but you still have to figure it out.
You were like, okay, this is what I got.
(22:24):
What can I do to make it work?
And is it that I turn it around?
Is it that I shoot it from another angle?
Is it that I ask them to replate it?
Because sometimes that's all you can do.
Then you have to explain to them whyand how you need it to be replated.
They don't necessarily understand that youneed some kind of visual hook in there.
(22:48):
Even if it's that one carrot, like inyour matzo ball soup, at least it's
something that brings your eye in.
And not every chef is like into hearingthat, I, I think they are more lately
because I think that they understandthe value of having a strong visual.
But yeah, as long as you're doingit kindly and giving an explanation
(23:10):
and not just like, Well, that'shideously ugly, or whatever.
Not that anyone would hopefully do that.
You have to think, you have to kind ofwork with where you are in the moment.
Mica (23:23):
You brought up such a great point earlier about chefs
not knowing how to plate food.
I have to explain to chefs that platingfood for consumption is so different
than plating it for photography.
And when I usually say that tothem, they, they kind of get it.
(23:44):
They're like, okay, they're a littlebit more open to receiving it.
What's the most surprising thing thatyou've learned about working with chefs?
Jackie (23:52):
Well, they vary a lot.
Just like anything else.
I've had chefs who were convinced thatit was okay to bring out completely
cold dish that had like congealed sauce.
Because it was going to look okay inthe photograph, and that they would
have been taught that they don't needto cook the food through for a photo.
(24:16):
I don't know.
I don't know where the hell I had.
Mica (24:18):
Who said that?
If you're listening, stop it.
Stop it.
Jackie (24:26):
Don't serve anything to the viewer that you wouldn't serve to a customer.
That's what I ended up tellingpeople because I was really surprised
that anyone would ever think that.
People can tell if a pieceof meat is not cooked.
Mica (24:40):
Yeah, I'm not gonna look at that raw steak and be like, yeah,
I want to eat that raw steak.
No, it needs, I needsome char marks, okay?
Like, please cook the damn thing.
Make it look cooked, please.
I want to take it to an interviewthat you did with Muse world and
you described your photography styleas dynamic relatable fun And I love
(25:03):
that you chose the word dynamic.
I'm curious, what inspired youto choose dynamic as one of the
words to describe your style?
Jackie (25:11):
That's a great question.
To me dynamic means that theimages have a certain energy and
to them and that they're visuallystraightforward design wise.
When I think of something as beingdynamic, I feel like there's a presence
there, that you can pick up on and thatthat's accentuated by strong visual.
Mica (25:36):
The one thing that drove me nuts about photography school
is they always talked about yourstyle, your style, your style.
You know, trends come andgo, but style is forever.
And I'm like, I don't knowwhat the fuck that means.
And I do now because...
My style did develop and I learnedthings that I really like and how
(25:58):
the lighting style that I love tophotograph in and it became, over
the years, my style developed.
And a lot of me figuring that partof myself out had to do with my
blog, with Let's Talk About It.
My question for you is, did your styledevelop from Jackie's Happy Plate?
Where did your style develop from andwhen did you discover that you like to
(26:23):
create dynamic, fun, and relatable images?
Jackie (26:27):
My style evolved from looking at the work of photographers that
I liked and trying to incorporateaspects of the things that I saw
that I liked into my own work.
But anytime anyone does that, unlessyou're some kind of genius, which I'm
(26:51):
not, you can't really recreate the work ofsomebody else, no matter how hard you try.
There's something about the processthat no matter what you do, you're
gonna incorporate some aspectof your individuality into that.
I saw the trends.
As I'm looking at work that I likeand thinking about why I like it and
(27:15):
trying to incorporate that into my ownwork and seeing what the results are,
that's really how my style developedbecause then I would say, okay,
well, here's what this looks like.
What am I going to do next?
It's almost like my styleevolved from my own work.
(27:38):
Once I started thinking about whatI liked in other people's work and I
started incorporating that into my work,then I would hold on to the things that
I saw in my own images that I liked.
I started to reincorporatethem going forward.
So it came to this process thatI think a lot of art students do.
(27:59):
Is you learn about art history and youlearn about why it's important and why
it works and what you love about it.
And then you take that inspirationand you incorporate it into like what
you think you want to do and you grow.
But you get to a point whereit's no longer about the thing
that you loved in the beginning.
(28:20):
It is still, you can still lovethose things, but after making
enough of your own work, it juststarts to take on a life of its own.
Mica (28:29):
That is super duper true about looking at other photographers work,
discovering what it is that you likeabout theirs, but I never imagined
that developing a style can comefrom your own work as an artist.
That makes so much more senseto me than anything else.
Because especially in those beginneryears, we are looking at other
(28:51):
people's work and we are tryingto emulate what they're doing.
And it doesn't perfectly comeout that way, but then we
discover, I like this better.
I avoid the tutorials thatteach you like how to do bright
and airy, bright or whatever.
Or dark and moody, how to do hardlight photography, that type of thing.
I avoid those types of tutorialsbecause I like to go in the studio
(29:16):
and try to figure it out for myself.
I'm going to look at the photo.
I'm going to analyze it.
I'm going to study it.
And I'm going to look at thelight and think about, well, what
did they do to accomplish this?
And then once I have like an ideaor game plan in my brain, then I go
in the studio and I try to do it.
What advice would you give tophotographers who are struggling to
(29:40):
learn their style or what they likeand finding their place in this world.
Jackie (29:45):
A whole bunch of stuff started coming in my head when you said that.
Cause you started talkingabout the light and bright.
Was like, oh, you know what?
There have been things thatI've tried to do and when I was
doing it, I was not enjoying it.
I don't really like trying tofigure out how to use strobes.
Because first of all, I want tosee what's happening in the moment.
If I'm gonna light something.
(30:07):
I don't want to have a flash.
I realize okay, I don'tneed to learn strobes.
I don't even have to learn this likefancy whatever lighting things with all
you know, all that stuff is like It'slike, I'm not really interested in that,
and when I was doing it, I was hating it.
And that is an important clue.
If I'm not enjoying doing this,then that's not right for me.
(30:29):
If you think that you have to makesomething to fit in with some idealized
version of what you think a photographis supposed to be, and then you're doing
it, and you're hating it, or it just,it's not what, what you, who you are,
then that's not what you, that's not you.
Some people think that food photographyis supposed to be this very specific
(30:50):
thing, and I do see a lot of of bloggersin particular who have all decided
that food photography is supposedto look this very specific way.
Not only is that boring,but it's also untrue.
There's so much foodphotography out there right now.
Not everybody doing foodphotography is a food photographer.
It's fine if that's what you needto illustrate whatever's on your
(31:13):
blog or whatever, but it's notreally what makes you a valuable
food photographer other than that.
So don't get caught up in what youthink you're supposed to do or what
you think the world wants from you.
It's important to a point, youknow, like if everybody hates
(31:35):
it, well then you're screwed.
Mica (31:37):
You're creating photos for yourself.
Jackie (31:41):
There's nothing wrong with that kind of, but you have to kind
of find a middle ground shirt.
Mica (31:47):
You raise such a great point about doing what you
enjoy and what works for you.
There will always be aclient looking for that.
Today there's so much opportunitythat you can be a little bit
more choosy about what you do.
And it makes no sense if you don'tenjoy doing strobes, then don't do them.
(32:08):
And don't market yourself toclients who expect you to do them.
Go find assignments thatare more tailored to that.
If you do enjoy strobes and the thoughtof like walking into a restaurant
terrifies you because you don't knowwhat the lighting situation is going
to be like, then don't do that.
You can find clients that wantto be in a studio with strobes.
(32:29):
Like you can choose whatand how you create art.
It's just not one, one rule.
Jackie (32:38):
When I first graduated from art school, it never even occurred to
me that I could be a food photographerbecause food photography was all this
weirdly, completely fake in studio,images of like ice cream made out of
mashed potatoes or everything was likeshellacked literally was shellacked with
(32:59):
like this really harsh lighting and itwas this like really techie weird thing.
Like In 1993 food photographywas very different.
It's completely evolved and changed sincethe invention of the iPhone for one,
you know, and the fact that everybody'sgot a camera with them all the time
and the invention of, of, of blogging.
(33:19):
I mean, really food photography is acompletely different medium than it
was when I was in art school, which iswhy I didn't know that I could be one.
What's interesting about it is thatyou don't know what's going to happen.
You don't know where yourlife's going to take you.
But I would have never guessedthat that's where I would be.
I don't know where what food photographyit's gonna be like five years from now.
(33:42):
Maybe it's all gonna be robots,you know AI it's gonna take over
and your camera's gonna decide,you know with the photograph.
Mica (33:52):
I am one of the most futuristic people.
I see something and I'm like, hell yeah,how can I use that as a photographer?
How can I incorporate that in my workflow?
And so, uh, uh, Elon.
Whoever, I don't think Elon's smartenough to do it, but maybe he has enough
money to hire the people to do it.
Whoever is building a robot,can you like, put a move on it?
(34:14):
Cause your girl needs, needs arobot to hang lights and stuff.
Jackie (34:18):
Love the idea of technology advancing so that it's helping
me solve problems that I don'treally need to have that much.
I mean, I need to know like, what isthe thing I wanted to have in focus, but
that I know it's going to do it for me.
Mica (34:33):
That would be freaking wonderful.
One of the struggles that I faced whenI got into food photography, and I
don't know if it's like starting to goaway or whatever, I don't know, but,
I had a new photographer reach out tome and they're like, so I, I noticed
that you got your start as a, as a foodblogger, and they're like, don't like
(34:55):
to cook, but I do love food photography.
Do I have to have a food blog inorder to be a food photographer?
And I told him, absolutely not.
I know that working on your foodblog that allowed you to develop and
grow as a, as a food photographer.
Has that role in food blogging changed?
(35:15):
Has food blogging becomesynonymous with food photography?
When people think of food photography,do they think automatically food blog?
Or do you think the tideis changing on that?
Jackie (35:30):
To some extent, when they think of food blogging, yeah, they,
they expect to see photography, unlessyou're a really good illustrator.
Now is food photographyonly about blogging?
Heck no.
I think people kind of forget.
We still need foodphotography for advertising.
We still need it for products.
We still need it for packagingand you need a certain degree
(35:53):
of professionalism to be ableto pull something like that off.
Mica (35:57):
I want to take it to that same interview that you did with Muse.
You listed your favorite quotefrom Diane Arbus is the bomb.
com.
You need to go like studyeverything she's ever created.
Everything, everything.
But, the quote that she said isI work from awkwardness by that.
I mean, I don't like to arrange things.
(36:18):
If I stand in front of something, insteadof arranging it, I arrange myself.
The question I have for you iswhat drew you to this quote from
Diane and how does it resonatewith your approach to photography?
Jackie (36:30):
Oh, I love this.
It's because it all comesback to you, the photographer.
I'm going to say it's thatit's not, it's that it's not.
You, it's me approach.
I think as a photographer, youcan't be like, it's your fault.
You're not doing what I need you to do.
You need to be doing something else.
(36:51):
It's like, no dude, you need,I'm the one that needs to change.
If I don't like what I'm seeing, Ineed to change something about myself
in order to get what it is that I'mlooking for, for what I'm experiencing.
Because if you think aboutphotography, everything is just
a series of moments captured.
And so, um, sorry, give me a second.
(37:14):
My phone.
Siri.
And then so I'm waiting up and thenasking me what I want and I'm like, I
need to enunciate it better, and if I saysomething where it thinks to be it, poof.
And I think I'm asking Sirito help me find something.
Mica (37:31):
Siri pops up when you don't need her ass, and then when you are clearly
saying her name, she is no where around.
You're like Siri, hey sit, sit,where the fuck are you Siri?
Jackie (37:46):
So, a series of moments,
It's up to you to find that momentwithin the series of moments.
And that's what Diane Arbus didamazingly well, and especially
because she's shooting film, right?
She's got, you know, whatever, 12 or 24frames in order to wait and experience
(38:11):
the moment as it's happening and capturingit based on her own personal experience.
And that is what photography is all about.
It's about you deciding, okay, well,what I'm seeing is is up to me and when I
choose to click that shutter is up to me.
And if I take a step to the left, howis that going to change what I'm seeing?
(38:34):
If I wait five seconds, how is what,what is happening going to change?
So that is why I love that quote, becauseit puts the responsibility solely on the
photographer instead of trying to blamethe subject for whatever's going on.
(38:55):
And then God don't even try and blamefood because food is not listening.
Mica (39:01):
You're like, why does this look bad?
You're making it look bad.
Move your body!
Change positions.
Do something.
Try something.
Jackie (39:10):
Talk for that.
Do anything.
Don't, but don't be a victim.
Don't be a victim to that sandwich.
Mica (39:17):
I love that we're taking that ownership.
It goes back to what you weresaying about creating your own art.
You know, you are taking ownership overthe thing that you are photographing,
the subject that you're photographing.
I mean, that's great.
Jackie (39:30):
And you're also existing in that moment.
Basically, photography is about youliving your life in that moment.
You're there.
You're experiencing something.
Every single second has the opportunityto be captured or not captured.
It's what you do withthat second that counts.
Or a fraction of a second.
(39:51):
I mean, you know, you're shootinga 60th, 100th of a second.
Think about how many things happen.
In a second, if you're shootingat a hundredth of a second and
how many opportunities you have toexperience that moment visually.
Mica (40:06):
I bought this camera.
It's a called paper shoot camera.
It's like a disposable camera.
All the images are shot to a SDcard but it is a very simple camera.
It has a little viewfinder, you pressa little button, it has four switches,
you can either shoot like in a regularwhite balance, a cool white balance.
(40:30):
It has a black and white and then it has, sepia, sepia, sepia, one of those words.
And that's it.
You can't see what the photo looks like.
There's no viewfinder to look through.
You just, it's like a disposable camera.
It operates and it's thin.
It's like paper thin.
Jackie (40:46):
Cool.
I've not heard of this thingand it's very interesting.
Mica (40:50):
In my opinion, I think it's a little overpriced.
It's a, it's an expensive toy.
I took it with me on my trip.
My husband and I went to Galveston,Texas for our anniversary and
normally I take my, my DSLR with mebut this time I decided I am going
to rely on my iPhone and I'm goingto rely on this paper shoot camera.
(41:12):
With the paper shoot camera,there's nothing to look at.
You take the picture and you just hopefor the best that you got exactly what
it is that you're there to photograph.
You really are dependent onwhatever lighting is present.
And that was really hard for me to do,but your point about being present in
(41:33):
the moment, taking ownership of whateveryou're photographing, it just reminded
me so much of that paper shoot camera.
You did an interview with James Robinsonon his blog and you mentioned that you
wait and watch for unexpected momentsto capture during your shoots and you
expressed that before and I love that.
(41:54):
What was the time when this approachled to a particularly memorable image?
Jackie (42:00):
This is kind of the theme of what we've been talking about today,
is that sometimes it's important tolet life happen and to slow down and
take things in and watch and wait.
Don't try and force something thatisn't happening or don't miss something
(42:22):
important that's happening justbecause that wasn't part of the plan.
The reason that that French Toastphoto was an important lesson for me
was because I was just starting todecide what I wanted to do with food
photography and it presented itself to me.
(42:42):
That photo presented itself to me.
That's just my usual way of makingthat recipe, but the way that I
happened to put the Cinnamon and thevanilla in with the egg, it it created
this reaction, you know the way thatthe the solids and the liquids were
interacting with each other in a waythat made it almost like handmade paper.
(43:03):
It was just happened to be, like,science, science, project in the making,
just a little, like, all on its own.
If I hadn't been aware, and Ihadn't been looking and watching,
I I could have missed it.
I realized that it was moreimportant to stop what I was doing.
Go get my camera and photographthis thing, then to actually
make the French toast.
(43:25):
As we've been talking about, life isa series of moments, and if you're
not paying attention, you couldmiss something really valuable.
Mica (43:32):
Oh, for sure.
For sure.
There's one photographer,that comes to mind.
Jamie Livingston.
He took a Polaroid a day, and he didit from 1979 until he died in 1997.
, His friend did an interview about him,and said that Jamie would take one
(43:54):
photo, and he, he meant one photo,and there were like moments where the
two of them would be hanging out, andhe would tell him, Jamie, this would
be a great photo of the day, and he'dlike, It was very nonchalant about it.
It was like a checklist like, Ah!
I already took a photo of my coffee.
He was like, more aboutliving in the present.
He never planned whatwas a photo of the day.
(44:17):
It was one moment out of each day.
And once it was done, it was done.
There was no, Oh, thiswould be a better moment.
It was like, no, this is the momentthat I've chosen for this day.
Our conversation very much heavilyrevolves around living in the moment.
Jamie Livingston remindsme so much of that.
I have two more questions for you.
(44:39):
This has been, I've loved everythingabout today's conversation.
Jackie (44:43):
this, This conversation is reminding me how much I
love to talk about photography.
Not just photography, you know,whatever, but the art of photography
and talking about the inspirationbehind photography, where I think
photography has become so commonplacethat it's easy to forget that it is art.
(45:05):
And it is science.
Mica (45:06):
It is science and it is art.
When I was developing this podcast andthinking about the types of conversations
that I wanted to have, I wanteddefinitely for it to be educational,
but I also believe that there aredifferent kinds of education that we
can get from people's personal stories.
(45:26):
I know that with this podcast,I'm not going to talk about, how
to get your foot in the door.
It's like, there are so manyother podcasts that focus on that.
I'm very much interested in the personand their journeys, and there are lessons
to be learned through the person andthe journeys that they've gone through.
And so I, love to talk about photography,definitely from an artistic standpoint,
(45:48):
because like you said, it is an art.
We are artists, and it's importantthat we can talk about our art
in an open conversation and notjust the business side of it.
That is an important part of photography.
Sure.
But ultimately, you are an artist and weneed to be able to talk about it and talk
(46:09):
openly and freely and nerdily about it.
Those are conversations that we need tobe had So I love this conversation so much
and I'm glad that we're here on this show.
You did an interview with Gorman Dyes andyou mentioned that when you started out as
a photographer, the images were most mademostly by male commercial photographers.
(46:31):
What I'd like to know is how hasthe industry changed in terms
of representation and diversity?
Or has it changed at all, do you think?
Jackie (46:41):
I think that food photography was coming from a completely different
place, where it was like these peoplewho had spoke mostly men who had gone
through this very techie experience,so like it was more like a trade
school situation that tends to be alittle bit more, more male oriented.
(47:02):
So it started with people coming from thisvery specific background, and now it's
become more of for the people in general.
As a result of that, it's only naturalthat there would be more diversity.
Mica (47:18):
You said earlier about how it was very technical.
This is a prop.
This is this.
This is a product.
There's no personality or personalties to this photo as today.
Photographers A lot of the workthat they do, or that we do, is
tied in with who we are as a person.
It's a very personal medium thatagain, ties into ourselves as art.
Jackie (47:44):
In the 90s you were in the 50s 60s on forever, if you wanted
to be a professional photographer,you had to have a studio you had
to have a lot of lighting yet.
It was really veryexpensive and very specific.
And what photography is as we've beentalking about here today has really
evolved in a way that many more peoplecan actually do it than could before.
(48:08):
And I think that comes back towhat that whole question that you
were asking of when I did thatinterview and they're like, what was
photography and how has it evolvedwas like, well, it's evolved a lot.
I mean, it is nothing reallylike where, where it began.
And that's what's amazing about it.
It's become more of amedium for the people.
(48:31):
Just like if you're gonna be a writer,all you really need is a piece of
paper, and a pen, you don't evenneed a computer to be able to write.
If you have the vision, if youhave the creativity, then you
can make something of yourself.
But it's all again, comes back toyou and who you are as an individual
and what makes you special.
Mica (48:52):
And taking that ownership, like you said, taking that ownership.
It's really just taking ownership ofyou, your art, and what speaks to you.
I love that we're talking about this andshining a light on this because I think
it's important that new photographersunderstand that the bells and the
(49:12):
whistles don't make you the photographer.
You make you the photographer.
You operate that camera.
It doesn't operate you.
Jackie (49:19):
It's the same with the guy who was doing the Polaroids every day.
Polaroid was the most accessible formof photography for a very long time.
When I was like a little kid, my dadhad a Polaroid camera and he took
photos that I still love and it doesn'tmake the photos That, that guy took
(49:42):
every day any less art, in fact, it'sjust as much art as anything else.
The iPhone has kind of taken overin that sense, especially because,
oh my God, what's happened with theiPhone, even in the, in the past couple
of years, where you can shoot raw.
Everybody has that opportunity, justlike everybody has the opportunity to be.
To have a pen and paper if they,if they want and be able to write.
(50:05):
It doesn't make it anyless important of a medium.
It makes it more exciting becauseeverybody has an opportunity.
Mica (50:14):
What do you hope the listeners...
takeaway from today's episode?
Jackie (50:18):
Well, I want to say thank you because this has been awesome.
This has really reminded me whyhaving these kinds of conversations
about photography is so important.
And that's one of the thingsI want them to take away,
which is like, talk about it.
Have that conversation.
Talk about art with your friends.
Talk about what's exciting to you.
(50:41):
With people you're close toand be able to brainstorm and
imagine all the possibilities.
Mica (50:48):
Jackie, this has been fantastic.
Where can the listenersfind you and support you?
and stalk you like I did?
Jackie (51:00):
My website website's jackie alpers.com.
I have a cookbook coming out inOctober, which is the unofficial
Yellowstone cookbook, which isrecipes that were inspired by the
television show Yellowstone that Iphotographed myself, and that I was
(51:22):
inspired by some of the visuals onYellowstone, which are I'll pretty cool.
That's available for pre order on Amazon.
It'll be out in October.
My current cookbook Tasteof Tucson is also available.
I think both of those are really goodexamples of where I am creatively
and collaboratively with people.
But it's all up on mywebsite, jackieoppers.
(51:44):
com.
There's a link to my recipes, andthank you again for this opportunity.
It's been really, really, not just eyeopening, but it's like heartwarming
in a way to remember what I love aboutphotography and to be able to communicate
that as part of a conversation with you.
Mica (52:03):
I thrive on those, these types of conversations.
I really do.
Are you on Instagram as well?
Jackie (52:08):
Yes.
Also at Jackie Alpers.
J A C K I E A L P likePaul, E R S like Sam.
Mica (52:17):
Well, y'all go follow and I'm, I'm about to go get y'all cookbooks
because I love the cookbooks and um,thank you again for being on the show.
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