031: Capturing Fleeting, Fluid, and Fragile Moments with CGI

In this episode of the Savory Shot, host Mica interviews Steve Hansen, a CGI photographer and artist. Hansen discusses his journey in CGI and how it has impacted his photography work. He explains the benefits of learning CGI, including how it forces you to be creatively disciplined and can help you become a better artist.

 

Savory Shot Shownote: https://micamccook.com/guests/steve-hansen/ Website: https://micamccook.com/podcast Instagram: www.instragram.com/mica.mccook Instagram: www.instagram.com/thesavoryshotpodcast Would you like to be a guest on the show? Fill out the guest form, and we'll be in touch soon.

Episode Transcript

Mica (00:00):
Welcome to the 31st episode of The Savory Shot.
Dang, y'all.
Can you believe we'reon episode 31 already?
Oh my God, I'm buggin y'all.
Time sure flies by whenyou are havin fun, eh?

(00:24):
Hey!
First things first, did you listento episode 30 with Jackie Alpers?
If you haven't, you better moonwalk yourbutt to that episode and give it a listen.
Cause y'all, that was a good one.

(00:47):
Okay, I have a story for y'all.
Did anyone have thoseold Photobucket accounts?
Well, I have one.
And I still have it, and everyso often, I like to go in and
go down a little memory lane.
Well, y'all the other day, whileI was sipping my fuh fuh thing,

(01:08):
I dove deep into my old account.
Y'all, the nostalgia!
Oh my gosh, the older I get, themore I appreciate these grainy
ass three megapixel photos.
Let me paint a picture for y'all.
The year was 2004, I was a seniorin high school, and it was at

(01:33):
the start of my school year, andy'all, everybody had a cell phone.
Everybody but me.
I gave my mom the biggest puppy eyes andconvinced her to get me a cell phone.
So we got one of thoseburner looking Nokia phones.
You know the ones, the bigclunky, with that iconic ringtone.

(01:58):
Dee dee dee dee dee.
You could play snake on it.
Y'all, I thought I was so cool.
I walked into my school on the firstday with a little pimp in my step.
I was pimp walking all through thehallways thinking, man, I'm so cool.

(02:21):
That is until my bestiepulled out her shiny suit.
Samsung flip phone.
You know, the one with the camera.
Y'all, my heart dropped.
That weekend, I skated intothe Sprint store and spent my

(02:43):
entire paycheck on a flip phone.
I remember that first click.
That first glimpse into its tinyscreen as that grainy image appeared.
Y'all, I thought I was a magician.
I thought it was magic.
It's wild to think that nearly 20years later, we'd be looking at a world

(03:08):
where images come to life through CGI.
And through AI.
It's crazy, y'all.
The things we can do.
Man, and I love this topic.
I love talking about this.
I love talking about the future.
So today, I'm beyond thrilled to introduceyou to the phenomenal Steve Hansen.

(03:34):
Steve Hansen is a food andbeverage photographer and CGI
artist based out of Seattle.
Y'all, when we talk about a maestroin splash photography, Steve's
name just shines at the top.
Y'all, this episode is amazeballs.

(03:56):
I mean, it's, it's fantastic.
And I loved every second of it.
Steve led us into his world, y'all.
He shed light on the rockybeginnings and the leaps he
took to conquer the CGI space.
We talked about the future of CGI and howit'll impact us as food photographers.

(04:18):
But, before we get intothat, let's start the show.

(04:59):
I just wanna start off by saying thankyou so much for being on the show.
I was first introduced to yourwork in my photography class.
We were learning about splashes inintermediate photography and your
photos were some that we studied andI was like, this is freaking amazing.
So I've just have been a hugefan of your work ever since.

(05:21):
So thank you, Steve,for being on the show.

Steve (05:23):
Absolutely glad to be here.

Mica (05:25):
I want to dive right into this because I've got so many questions.
We've got so much stuff to talk about andI'm excited to like get right into it.
The first thing I want to startoff with is your background.
You have a degree in baking and pastryfrom Seattle Central College, and then
you have another degree in Culinary Artsfrom the Culinary Institute of America.

(05:49):
How have these two skills influencedyour approach to food photography?

Steve (05:53):
It's been pretty much everything.
I've always told students or peopleI've ran into that a lot of it has to
do with knowing your subject matter.
I think everybody in this business,whether you're a photographer or
food stylist, comes at it, sometimesintentionally, but sometimes on
accident and you stumble into it.
That was certainly the case with me.
I had a couple of degrees, workedin kitchens for quite a while,

(06:15):
but was always a visual artistfrom the time I was a kid and knew
that's really where I needed to be.
But I really enjoyed my time asa chef and it was a lot of fun.
But I think what the business taught meand what I understand about food because
of the business, allows me to really...
Have an interesting eye as faras what produce should look
like when it's at its best.

(06:36):
I have an understanding kind of sciencebehind food in general, how liquids
behave when they're thicker versusthinner, how to make a vinaigrette.
All the basics, knife skills,everything, understanding how to
collaborate with a food stylist.
To ask the right questions.
To know if something on set makes senseculinarily, both visually and culinarily,
which, the art director and the foodsales have a big say in that too.

(06:58):
But I'm very hands on.
If I'm doing test work from doing clientwork, I tend to be fairly hands on
my food stylist, love it or hate it.
So sometimes I'll back offand let them do their thing.
Sometimes I do it solo.
It just depends on the project.
If you're shooting baseball or ifyou're shooting food or whatever
it is, knowing your subjectmatter is absolutely critical.
I would recommend anybody whogoes into photography to study

(07:21):
what they want to shoot first.
You could pick up photography and likeI say, I studied it for years, but you
could probably get if you were quickerat learning that you could probably
get under your belt in six months.
It depends how, you know, naturallyyou are at it, but you could get
good at photography pretty quick.
So yeah, I would learn your subjectmatter before anything else.

Mica (07:42):
That's a great point you bring up.
I wonder, would food photographersbenefit from taking a culinary course?
Or private lessons.
What do you think?

Steve (07:54):
You don't have to.
Some of the best photographers I'vestudied had no culinary school.
Obviously it's not absolutely mandatory.
They're technically extremelygifted on the, on a technical
sense, on a strictly artistic sense.
They understand how light behaves.
Some of the things where Isometimes struggle at, I'm
very organic in my process.
Like is it too muchlight, too little light?

(08:14):
How's this make me feel?
What color?
And some people are very technical.
That's definitely not how I approach it.
I have people around me whounderstand that to a tee.
Surround yourself with really goodtalent, sort of like a, you know, a
famous musician might surround themselveswith really skilled musicians in their
band who know what they're doing.

Mica (08:30):
I've been advised so many times, like when I was in school,
they're like, you need to get to knowas many chefs as possible, before
you start taking on clients andbooking work and things like that.
I know that some, for me myselfespecially, approaching a chef and
offering to do like a collaboration islike the most scary thing on the planet.

(08:55):
So if, if a photographer approached youwhen you were in your chef days, what
are some things that would catch yourattention to want to do a shoot with them?

Steve (09:05):
Oh god chefs are chefs are tough to talk even talk to really.
I'd it took me years just to get to getthe chef out of me like just the constant
stress and anxiety of being a chef.
Like they don't want to talk to you.
If you know somebody's in thebusiness and you're friends with
them I'm sure they'd love to do it.
It's rare they have a lot of time.
It's usually food stylists whoare in their formative years

(09:28):
who really want to test the most.
The collaboration between aphotographer and a food stylist,
especially starting out, thatrelationship can last a long time.
They're usually formerchefs, typically, not always.
More recently they're mostly former chefs.
So they understand a lot about food.
And they know a lot of the tricks andit's good to watch them work and you
can pick up a lot of your own foodstyling tips from them just watching

(09:51):
how they go about their business.
I would always recommend that peopleseek out food styles locally to where
they are and if you're just a startingphotographer, find somebody who's just
getting into it, who has a lot of time andsome effort to put into some test work.
And then forge a relationship together.
That way you don't have to knoweverything about food styling.
It can be a collaborative effort.
Whereas I, you know, I always, beinga chef, you get to be a control freak

(10:13):
and I have to have my fingerprint on.
Every like a lot.
So it just depends on where your,what your background does, what your
strengths are, what your focus is.
Are you going to be more of thetechnically minded, visual artists
where the lighting is a hundredpercent you're in the technicality
of photography is your wheelhouseand you let somebody handle the food.
That makes for a good collaboration.

(10:33):
In fact, the more I progress in mycareer, the more I'm using food stylists
because the bigger the projects get,the more specialized the stylists need
to be and the more people I need onset, honestly, to get the job done.
So I can put my two cents inthere, but they always know what
they're doing and it turns out.
While I like to have my handson things, especially when I'm
test shooting for myself, thecollaborative effort's really nice.

(10:54):
I would reach out tofood stylists locally.
Restaurants, talk to an owner of arestaurant, say, do you need some photos
for your restaurant if you want toget into restaurant photography, which
is surprisingly not my forte at all.
I never do lifestyle.
I have done some restaurant shoots,but it's really not my thing.
Those are typically forpeople who have really good
architectural photography skills.
It's almost like wedding photography.

(11:15):
We have to be jumping around.
So yeah, the collaborativething is really nice to get to
meet people in the business.
I would join, I don't attendthese meetings too often, but I
used to join ASMP and some otherorganizations where you will go to
meetings and meet people in the area.
So getting to know everybody in thebusiness is really helpful regardless.
Whether they're suppliers of camera gearor the more people you know, the better.

(11:37):
Collaboration can reallylead to a lot of good things.

Mica (11:39):
Oh, I love that.
The collaboration leading towonderful things and building a
relationship with someone who'sjust starting out a food stylist.
It's funny you mentioned how you like tohave your hand in everything, like your
finger in every single pie, all that jazz.
When you do like your portfoliowork, do you prefer to work with
a food stylist or do you like towork solo on your portfolio shoots?

Steve (12:04):
I work almost exclusively solo on portfolio shoots and I try
to do a lot of portfolio shootsbecause you get way better even
if you've been doing it forever.
You learn something, a lot ofthings every time you go at it.
What you want to do is you wantto show the client what you're
all about photographically.
And every time you do an advertisingshoot or a packaging shoot or whatever

(12:26):
it is, there's an enormous amount ofinput from the creative director from
how the food stylist styles food.
There's a lot of things that go into it.
And I'd say there's a good chunk ofthat on my website, but I want to
have a lot of work on there that givespeople an idea when they look at it
for the first time, what my style is,how I go about things in a vacuum.
And a little bit of theadvertising stuff too, to show

(12:48):
that I can work in collaborativeenvironments and troubleshoot.
That's one of my favorite things to dois troubleshoot ideas that come my way
where someone has an idea in place.
I'm like, how are we going tomake this a reality on camera?
But when I'm doing my portfolio, I wantthat to be as much of me as possible.
I certainly will not, never turn downthe opportunity to work with somebody,

(13:08):
especially if they're specialized.
There's ice cream stylists, there'spizza stylists who almost do solely that.
So working with themis, is always a treat.
I want to show people who come tomy site exactly what I do quickly.
I'm in the process of redoing thewebsite now cause I'm going to be doing
another marketing push in the summer.
But everything is being thought throughlike how the images are positioned.

(13:31):
The visual content of the imageshow they resonate off one another.
But I'm getting into motion CGI.
Every time you add a skill to yourset you've got to I think refine
your visual identity even more.
The broader your skillset, the moreimportant it is to have a very cohesive
visual presentation on your site.
And my stuff does vary a little bit.
It's not all the exact same look,but I try and I light a certain way

(13:55):
when given the chance and I style acertain way when given the chance.
Most of the style I do will be onthe beverages and on some other
components, but the food, whenit's complex, I'm almost leaving
it always to a food stylist.
So those will be collaborative shoots.
But yeah, just having that solidvisual identity is really critical.

Mica (14:14):
For anyone who might not know what that means, what does
visual identity mean to you?

Steve (14:19):
A lot of it you can learn by reading or observing
the old masters in fine art.
When you see a certain artist who'sfamous, you'll typically be able to
know immediately if they had painted it.
My favorite painter growing up was Monet.
I do a lot of painting at home, which islike a therapeutic mindless activity that
kind of lets me understand light a lotbetter when you really have to actually

(14:43):
physically create it from almost nothing.
I tell students to read everything, butphotography books and every and follow
everybody, but photographers, becauseyou'll pick up these interesting ideas
from sculptors, from artists that youcan implement your own work, like how
they lit something, how they used color.
In painting, you can really have alot of freedom to manipulate color

(15:04):
and nobody will second guess it.
Whereas in photography, especiallyfood, like if you do something
wacko, people are gonna be like.
Oh boy, but you can, you can sneak itin there, especially lighting cocktails.
I recommend kind of just going outsideof your comfort zone to find new
inspirations for your work for sure.
To answer your question, like withvisual identity, it took a while.
And I think that's what studentsare just confused about.

(15:26):
It just takes time, um, to get acohesive, you'll, you'll take in
inspiration over time, over time,over years and years and years.
And you'll start to be like, all right,I'm, I like lighting from the left a lot.
My style is lighting fromthe left with a softbox.
With a harsh light in themiddle of that soft box.
So you get like a dualharsh, soft kind of thing.
And then some sort of kicker comingfrom the rights, possibly colored a

(15:48):
little cooler, almost like you werelighting an athlete and occasionally
a beauty dish from above and then.
A lot of my imagery nowis very colorist, I guess.
It used to be very moody, likeRembrandt, like some of the
people that I followed growing up.
In fact, a colleague of mine out of NewYork, Francesco Tonelli is really good.
Does a lot of really moody dramatic.

(16:10):
And I think I, I started doingthat and I thought, Oh my
God, this is just fantastic.
I'm, I wonder if everyone elseis doing something like this.
And I looked him up andI'm like, Oh my God.
Yeah, no, it's done a lot.
Um, and he, he had a, he had avery similar background as I did.
I think we worked in some of thesame restaurants in New York and
he's heavy handed on his own.
I don't want to speak for him, but Ithink he'll do a lot of styling himself.

(16:32):
Really beautiful work.
And I've sort of veered to moreof like the middle tones, dramatic
color, semi harsh lighting, but notto where it's like not appetizing.
Some of the light can get really,it depends what you're shooting.
But yeah, it just kind of honing yourstyle over time and creating an identity.
It's all your own.
I think it really is just a time thing.
One day you'll be looking at your workand be like, it all starts to kind

(16:54):
of, it all has the same feel to it.
Oh, that must.
And it'll just happen like overnight.
I never thought that I'd beshooting a lot of mid tone.
You know, moderately saturated colors.
I really liked the dramatic look earlyon and it'll change over time too.
I'll probably in a few years I'll probablyshoot a little bit different, but you
have to be very committed in that regardbecause when an art director looks at

(17:17):
your site or your work, you only get a fewseconds and they've seen so much imagery.
They've looked at all of the imagery,like they may not everything and
they're, a little bit jaded by it.
So you have to come in not necessarilywith something that's literally never
been done before, completely off.
You don't have to reinvent the wheel,but you have to bring something somewhat
new to the table, have a skillset thatmight be unique and be able to work
with people and be able to problem solvefor them, which is probably the biggest

(17:39):
thing is to make their vision a reality.
But as you progress, I think you'llget more work and more response when
you post things in that are cohesive.
Like anytime you post on Instagram,three images in a row that are very
similar, I think they actually formsomething more than their individual.
images.
You get more of a broad positivereaction from it if, if they

(18:01):
resonate well with each other.

Mica (18:03):
The key thing that you mentioned though, is that it takes time.
And that's probably one of the mostfrustrating answers, things that beginner
photographers don't like to hear becausethe world is like instant gratification.
I want to be instantly good.
I want to instantly know whoI represent and what I do.

(18:23):
I like that you said that, thatit takes time and it really does.
It feels like it's overnight, but you'vebeen doing all of that background work
to do that, to find that part of you.
You mentioned about like yourwork and how you want people
feel when you present yourself.

(18:43):
There was a article by Coffee Code.
One thing that I really lovedabout it, besides your bomb photos,
like, gosh, they're so amazing.
The author described your workas capturing the fleeting,
fluid, and fragile moments.
What advice would you give tophotographers who struggle with

(19:03):
capturing fleeting fluid andfragile moments in their work?

Steve (19:10):
Yeah, I found that interesting because it was a compliment because
nothing is fleeting or, or fragile.
Every single one of myshots is, is composited.
There's no way to do it.
I've had one shot that I've kept whereit just happened on accident because
from an artistic standpoint, withsplashes you're never going to get it
to behave exactly the way you want.
Usually what I'll do is I'll getan initial splash, an initial

(19:32):
hit, but it completely depends.
Like some of the stuff I've been postingrecently is, is every individual element
was completely shot in isolation.
It's rare that they're fleeting.
They need to look fleeting.
They need to look like they're happening.
And that, that actually takes timeand something that I get better at
every day of, of creating reallybeautiful shadow and integrations.
Creating little droplets here andthere that showcase some sort of

(19:55):
movement, even if it's subtle.
To not just have it look like a composite,but something a little bit more cohesive.
I don't see anything wrongwith compositing or at all.
In fact, I like the control, Ilike the visual look it gives you.
I think it's really good.
It's really whimsical when you havemore control and can do what you want
with color and shadow and all that.
That's one of the things that got me intoCGI is when you take a shot, you bake
in everything and there's no going back.

(20:17):
Those fleeting moments whenyou can get them are awesome.
In fact, the core of the splash shot issome sort of interaction between powder
and liquid or an ingredient liquid.
And then I build it out fromthat actual fleeting moment shot.
So I'll build upon it.
And even when I do motion stuff orCG stuff, I'll get a something in
front of like a high speed camera.

(20:38):
That's a really awesome shotwhere everything's happening
at once because you want thoseinteractions, especially with motion.
Then we'll composite a couple ofelements on top of it, or composite
some sparkles, or just add alittle extra salt and pepper to it.
In advertising, you need to be able torespond to people's requests for edits.
So everything has to beon its own layer, almost.
I mean, there's occasionswhere that's not the case, but

(20:59):
there are few and far between.
Some of my Photoshop filesare over a hundred gigabytes.
It takes a while to load those things.
Cause it's a hundred, it'sa hundred megapixel camera.
It adds up a lot and sometimes I getsloppy and I leave too much data on
the plates and it just it gets a littlecrazy, but it does takes some time
to load some of that, you get 16 bitAdobe RGB files and 100 megapixels

(21:24):
and you're doing like 50 layerssometimes and it gets really crazy.
My computer, I mean my computersare mostly for CG so they tend to
have a lot of memory anyways, so itdoesn't really affect them too much.
In fact, Photoshop is the one that'sslow most of the time, I can't make
use of my computers on occasion.

Mica (21:40):
You must have one heck of a file archival system.

Steve (21:47):
I do.
I mean, it's not just that.
It's the, it's the scanned.
I mean, I, I take a lot of, uh, we'llget into CG later, I'm sure, but I,
there's a lot of scanned items thatare photo scanned items where you take
pictures in every angle of an item.
And you restitch it together in 3D andit gives you a mesh and an overlay of
the actual photographs for 3D and someof those, a single Apple can get into

(22:10):
the multiple gigabytes of information.
It gets pretty crazy.
So a lot of storage at home anda lot of storage at the studio.
I split my time now betweenhome and studio because I have
a whole post production suitethere with the CG stuff too.
I won't come into studio for that.
It's mostly just for shoots wherepeople are on set, more traditional.

Mica (22:29):
We've talked about CGI and I actually want to dive into CGI.
What inspired you toincorporate that into your work?

Steve (22:38):
Time.
I had a lot of time on my hands.
I was doing most of my shoots in NewYork and I would be in a hotel room.
I don't tend to go out a lot.
When I was a chef, I would do thatall the time, so I'm just tired of.
I basically sat in the hotelroom and was like one day.
I think the actual initial thoughtwas I had somebody do a, I was doing a
traditional photo shoot and I needed arender of the physical packaging product.

(23:02):
That I was participating in shooting andthe render, I think it was like two grand
for a bag render, which isn't terrible.
It's not too bad.
As far as rate goes, but I was like,I'd like to be able to do this myself.
And I started seeing what people weredoing and start and I started seeing
the technology advancing really quickly.
And this is only four or five years ago.

(23:25):
Compared to now the resources availablecompared to then are night and day.
I do not have a math brain.
I didn't have coding experience.
So I jumped into this.
I saw the power of it andhow fast it was progressing.
And now the resources are in abundance.
It's like when I started teachingphotography, there were only
a few places to go for that.
Now there's just tons of talent andYouTube doing a great job of it.
Which I still follow today.

(23:45):
I keep up on stuff, but I don'thave tons of time for that.
CGI is incredibly powerful, butI only use it when I need to.
I had a lot of time doing this photoshoots and in New York, I would
sit in the hotel room and study forhours, like three or four hours.
Cause once you get the bug, once yourealize what you can do with it, you
just get absolutely addicted to it.

(24:05):
I would watch hours and hours every day ofthe stuff, even at home practicing because
you're starting from scratch as far aswhat you know, and you know nothing.
There's people out there who knowa lot of stuff, who've been working
in film and games for years.
But I came at CGI with a very practical,I just want it to be an extension
of motion and photography for me.

(24:26):
Adding a little extra trickin the bag when needed.
So I don't need to know how to do thesereally complex, insane mathematically
based animations or things that arevery abstract and difficult to process.
I just want it to be a virtualstudio in a sense where I can go in.
Cause in packaging we wouldhave issues where we'd have
to find a pumpkin in spring.

(24:48):
And so now I scanned so manyproducts that I've run into
over the course of the years.
photoscan them, and put them in the3d realm that I can grab a pumpkin,
light it the same way we do on setand then position it and then blur
it out or do whatever you need to do.
And then ingrate it into the scene.
So similar to what you coulddo now with AI is just ask
for a specific type of image.
You don't have as much controlover it, which is one of the

(25:10):
things I like about CGI versus AI.
It's like, yeah.
I, I've heard a lot of people saying, AIis gonna put photography outta business,
but if CGI didn't do that, which ithas incredible control, incredible
fatality and incredible art, directability, then certainly a AI won't have.
AI for me, I use it for idea generation.
It seems like a more replaced stockphotography and the daily social

(25:32):
needs of companies as opposed tothe really high level stuff where it
has to be incredibly art directable.
It's actually been a nice tool.
Not one that I use all the time.
Cause CGI really gets you where you wantto go in a very like deliberate way.
It's not just leaving it at the whimof the algorithm or whatever you as
an artist and as a client, we'll getexactly what they're looking for.
The ability to go back with CGI, Ifound I can put on a VR headset and go

(25:57):
into VR and physically touch a scenethat I'm working on and then back out
of it so I can have a very tactilevirtual interaction with the scenes.
It's really fun.
The thing is, it's overwhelming andfor my kind of brain and how I come
at things, what I really like is theadvertising world because they'll come
at you with, you'll need to put in yourideas, but it'll come at you with some

(26:17):
sort of idea, like a starting point andsome things that they need in the shot
and needed them to look a certain way.
Whereas in 3D, if you're doingpersonal work in CGI, it's overwhelming
because you can literally do anything.
You're not limited by whatglassware you have in the studio.
I just make the glass or if I don't havethe right ice cube, I make the ice cube.

Mica (26:36):
You can do that in CGI?
You could do that?

Steve (26:39):
Yeah, in fact in CGI, I will blow your mind.
I can model a nice cube in 3D, I cantell it how many bubbles it has, how many
cracks or veins or how much roughness onthe surface, how translucent it should be.
And then I'll create a system withnodes in 3D and I use Houdini exclusive,
which is like a super complex package.
It has a system within it calledPDG, which is basically a variant.

(27:01):
It's actually kind of likeAI will do the same thing.
We'll just create variant uponvariant of what the basic idea was.
So I can tell it, I want a hundreddifferent ice cubes that all are
slightly different, slightly differentbubble counts, slightly different.
And I'll just start churningthese out like exponentially.
You can do the same thing with scans.
And so you just have this massiveinventory of props, plates.
If I scan a plate or model plate, Igive it a set of variables and it'll

(27:24):
start pumping out new plates for me.
And they look photoreal.
Like they, the one big thing is Itell people, especially if you're
in food, especially, is to nottry and do everything in CGI.
You're not gonna be able todo a bowl of spaghetti in CGI.
It'll take too long.
There's certain things you cando, certain things you cannot do.
It's there's a lot of productrenderings, which are great that
clients love me to add on to shoots.
It just adds value to whatI'm able to give them.

(27:46):
Because if they like my style and I can doa lot of different things with that style
and they they've worked me before andthey're comfortable with me Then we can do
a lot of different things for a campaign.
Some photographers have to collaboratewith CGI artists, which can take forever.
There's a lot of things thatare missed in translations.
Sometimes it's a greatcollaboration, but it just depends.
But if you're able to do motion, I'mnot a master of motion, but I understand

(28:09):
it enough to get the final result.
And I work with a team whoreally knows their stuff.
CGI is just overwhelming.
Like there, it's a subject matter thatcould be its own three hour discussion.
It goes on forever.
But it is something that I thinkis worth learning on a basic level.
People use Blender for, it's free.
I, I do not like Blender at all.
I can't stand, like once you know Houdini,you can't use any other piece of software.

(28:31):
Houdini is I think, like 300.
Considering what it cando, it's almost free.
So, I would really recommend peoplelearn that first, because they're...
The team that puts developmentof that software is insane.
For liquid simulations, I don'tnecessarily have to go into
studio and throw paint around.
I can actually fully art direct itwhere I want it to go and how I want
it to behave and how viscous and howmuch surface tension goes into it.

(28:53):
There's no guesswork.
If you put the computing energyinto it, it looks 100% photoreal.
It's a really neat.
It's a really neat tool that I try anduse in a very organic manner because
I don't know if I had mentioned thisearlier, but getting clients to buy into
it can sometimes be a challenge becausethey're like, Oh, CGI is just fake.
And I'm like, a good render enginewill be able to render something

(29:13):
100% photo real if you give itthe information it needs to do it.
If you're using really good models, youjust can't tell the difference sometimes.
The flexibility of being able to comein and do these incredible animations,
go open the project file years laterand still work in the same scene with
same lighting not have to reset things.
I could do packaging in there withmy photo scans all day and you
wouldn't know it wasn't a photograph.

(29:35):
You know, a camera will distort realityjust as much as CGI I mean it converts
light rays into RGB pixels and througha lens which heavily manipulates
the image coming through sometimes.
So it's just another tool, but Isneak it in there at a client's
I'm like Hey, we could do this.
At least portion of this and CGI andsometimes they're like, absolutely not.
For no other reason, they justdon't understand the process or
they just don't want that to be.

(29:56):
I think most of it is they justdon't want anyone, the word CGI to be
associated with something that's verytypically very organic, even though you
can get a fully photoreal organic look.
So getting past that sometimes is,which is why I'm delving more into
cosmetics, more into product on occasionbecause CGI really does well with those.
So I'll get the food clientsaround to that eventually.

(30:17):
But, it'll be an ongoing process.

Mica (30:20):
They'll come around.
South by Southwest, this pastyear, I finally got to attend.
I bought my pass in 20, I bought itin 2018, so, or 2019, so that I could
go in 2020, and it, obviously, 2020,it was canceled and kept getting
deferred and deferred and deferreduntil last year when I finally went.

(30:42):
But, I met this gentleman, who wasobsessed with all things 3D and he was
like developing an app for restaurants,they take a photo of their dish and
it will present itself in a 3D formatwhere you can see it 3D and it's like

(31:02):
this is the future of how people aregoing to order food because they see
things on a menu and it's descriptivewords, but attention spans are getting
shorter and shorter by the day.
And also people are still very visual.
If they see something in a 3Dform, they're the dish in a 3D
form that that will influencethem more than a flat photo.

(31:25):
And he's like, this isvery much the future.
So with that being said, is CGI the futureof photography and food photography?

Steve (31:34):
I don't think so.
I, I like the idea.
Like for me, if I'm tellinga story, if I want to make
somebody excited, I will use CGI.
If I want to make themmoves, I'll use motion.
If I want to make themhungry, I use still imagery.
So still imagery, when you pick at everylittle thing and you have control over

(31:55):
every little thing, and it's a stillimage and it's not going anywhere.
There's no motion blur.
The amount of taste that can betransferred through that medium.
When I see a really good imageof a hamburger that's perfectly
done, I'm immediately hungry.
But if I see a, a, a nice, likerobot move around a hamburger,
then I'm kind of like moved.
I'm like, oh, that's exciting.
I wanna go see that.

(32:16):
And then when I, when I see a, a CGof a burger, which is basically almost
impossible to do, I've tried it.
It's very whimsical.
It makes you excited about a brand.
So it just depends what sort ofartistic mode you're going for, which
is why I'm just so glad to be ableto handle all three for a client.
What do you want to happen?
Do you want to, do you want ananimated gift to tell a story?

(32:36):
Do you want, a CGI to get people justenthralled and stop scrolling and stare
at your feed for like literally minuteson end to just watch what you're doing,
which happens with a lot of CG works.
There's a really good call toaction ability with motion.
It's also a lot easier.
Motion.
Once you get a good product on setand you shoot it, it's very to the
point, like, all right, we got it.

(32:57):
With CG, there's endlessedits that could happen.
There's endless flexibilityalmost to a fault.
So there, there's no one thing,whether it's AI or photography,
or I think you should understandall of them as much as you can.
It's a lot of work to put in to understandthem all well enough to produce.
It to, I mean, it took me.
Well, over a decade and hours,just an insane amount of time,

(33:19):
which I know most people may ormay not be able to commit to it.
But I, I'm never bored with this industry.
Like there's always something aroundthe corner that you can look to that is
exciting that you can bring on becauseit won't just be people in a dark room,
just typing in keywords into an AI.
There will always be that need forinteraction, a need for believability.
If clients are a little put offsometimes by even including CG, I'm

(33:40):
sure they're going to be put off byjust using fake, you know, it, it,
so there's, there's room for it all.
And if you understand it all from a verybroad, you can bring on people who are
very good at these specialized skillsets, whether it's prop stylists or
food stylists, let them do their thing.
And then you have a very broadunderstanding of what needs
to be done from a director'sor a photographer standpoint.

(34:01):
And you can step in when needed orif you couldn't find that pumpkins
say, you know, some, if you're just aphotographer, you just don't have the
pumpkin, but if you're a CGI artist too,you can be like, well, let's go make
it out of thin air and let's, it'll be.
A hundred percent seamlesslyintegrated into things.
I use it sort of as an additional tool.
I'm not a traditional 3D artist thatcame up doing games or films, which

(34:25):
is a majority of, of CG artists, andthey're mindbogglingly skilled at, at
being able to make the impossible realityand integrate it into live footage.
Whereas I'm just, I just see itas sort of an additional studio.
A virtual studio sorts where I canjust play around and I test lighting
all the time if I don't want to goto the studio and I want to see how
something looks in a certain light setup.
I go into 3D.

(34:45):
I move lights around, see howit looks and then you can just
translate that to the studio later.
And once you're done learning 3D, youknow lighting like the back of your hand
and you know a lot about refractions,caustics, way more than I learned doing
photography, way more, you in 3D havecontrol over the shape of the bokeh
on your camera in the render engine.
You have the control over how glarelooks, how many like you, it's a,

(35:07):
it's a deep dive and especiallyin post production and motion.
That's another deep dive.
It's a whole thing, but the encouragingthing is that when you learn photography
and you learn blend modes and youlearn all the basics, all every
lighting, all of that stuff translatesone to one to the next step, whether
it's motion or CGI, all of it.
Like you can use it.
Like if you have a visual identityand you understand about the basics of

(35:29):
layering and light and all the stuffthat comes into the technical side
of photography, it all translates.
If you're a good photographer,you're going to be good.
Not overwhelmed by motion.
You will be very much overwhelmedat the beginning of my CGI.
But once you get over that humpand you'll know it, it'll be,
you'll enjoy the heck out of it.
It's a lot of fun because there'sno constraints on your creativity

(35:51):
at all once you get to that point,

Mica (35:52):
What do you think would need to happen, or what would it take for food
brands, food companies to embrace CGI?

Steve (36:02):
What I'm putting on my new website is a very detailed
explanation of the process.
So they can look at it.
I might even do a live interview kindof thing where I just discuss the
process from a very casual manner.
But a very concise manner becausethey just don't have a lot of
time to look at this stuff.
But I think forming a, good relationshipwith people that you've worked with
photographically or in motion or whatever.
If they're comfortable andyou can show them examples

(36:24):
of what that might look like.
I think it goes a long way.
And sometimes I'll justbe like, all right.
If they know it's CG, they're going tolook at it and be like, that's just CG.
There's a pride I think some people getand notice if something's CG or not,
they'll try and pick it out of a lineup.
That was CG for sure.
And sometimes they're definitely right.
Not everything is about being a hundredpercent photo real all the time.

(36:46):
Some of it's just about making an impactor a visual explosion of color, whatever.
So there's a place for it.
There's no, I'm not going to have,like I said, a bowl of spaghetti with
tons of little particulate matterand tons of detail and try and model
that it's just not going to happen.

Mica (37:01):
My husband and I, we visited the MIT museum, which I did not know they had a
museum and it is a great museum to visit.
If you're ever in Boston, butthey have this whole AI wing.
And they're just showing like the thingsthat they can currently do with AI, things

(37:23):
that they are trying to do in the future,medical, health, art, just the sky's
the limit, but one of the machines thatthey have, it's where you, you sit down
and you watch videos and you identifyif whether it's, real or if it's AI.

(37:44):
My husband did terribly on on his end.
And I was really good.
I think I missed threequestions, like three videos.
It really forced me to watch humanbehavior and like, how do humans move
when they talk, when they're nervous.
Are they fidgety?
Do they look around whenthey're talking, like you, you

(38:06):
really just get so observant.
And so I feel like with learning, justbased on what you've described with
CGI is that you become more observantwith photography and the message
that you're trying to put out, likeyou become so much more intentional.
Am I hitting the ballpark when I say that?

Steve (38:26):
Yeah.
I mean, in fact, I would, Iwould recommend just like.
If you can learn CGI, it makesyou, you can do anything in CGI
forces, you forces you to hone in.
You're, you're not being forcedinto a corner to be more focused
creatively by external forces,you're doing it internally.
Which is actually pretty hard to do.
This forced me to answer a lot ofartistic questions about what I

(38:47):
like to do and what I don't like,because it's all out there in CG.
You're not limited in any way.
So it forces you to be creativelydisciplined, which translates to
photography and motion big time.
It helps you direct a lot betterbecause you can move cameras.
In fact, in VR, I'll get in VR andphysically move a camera around and
you can actually have a, there's aphysical camera that you're holding

(39:09):
and there's actually a screen justlike on a real camera where it shows
you what the lens is seeing so Ican practice moves and practice how
things might behave on a real set.
It really helps the artistic minddeveloped big time and, and the technical
mind, because it is just overwhelming.
Which is where I think, AI would doreally well is in software like Blender,
Houdini, where you, if you're going tobe really good, you have to know Python

(39:32):
and VEX and some other coding languages.
You don't have to, but it really helps.
You can type in some keywords andget an image of it will be nice.
And, you know, Houdini or some otherprograms is to be able to type in kind
of generally speaking, what you'relooking for, and it'll give you like
in Houdini, like a, an AI built nodegraph of what it thinks you might want
that translates to a CGI animation.

(39:54):
And then you can tweak itfrom there and make it yours.
You have the nodes, youhave everything organized.
So incorporating AI as a toollike Photoshop's doing right now.
To an extent to just give you a fewextra tools, it can only help the
creative drive, the creative process.
It's been exciting, creativelyexciting for me for the last five
years, and it seems to be justgetting better and better as time

(40:15):
goes on and what tools are available.
Just as long as you're, you know, developyour photographic style, your artistic
style and be really confident in itand have the technical side down as
much as you possibly can and surroundyourself with people who are even better
than you at a very specific thing.
You're going to go pretty far in.
And I think where people hopefully don'tget impatient is that you'll probably

(40:36):
struggle for a while and it'll be hardto find clients who are high paying.
You'll get that first client who's like,for some reason you just end up being
the photographer where they couldn't findsomebody or you'd reach out to somebody
and they're like in a pinch and they'relike, Oh, we got somebody locally or
it'll be that there'd be like one job.
And if you do a reallygood job at that project.
Your name will get passed around fast.

(40:58):
Not all the time, but that'show it happened with me.
I haven't done a lotof marketing in years.
My whole career.
I haven't really focused.
I don't think younecessarily want to do that.
You want to, you want to be sohoned in that and, and so skilled
that people will come to you.
And through word of mouth, throughother reasons, it seems like
if you start chasing clients,they'll start to like scatter.

(41:21):
But if you really create like apresence that people gravitate
towards artistically, it'll happen.
Like I don't advertise in a lot of places.
I let word of mouth do the work for me.
Instagram is a good place to post stuff.
I don't, I tried doing Tiktok.
I'm just too old for it.

Mica (41:39):
You would do so well on TikTok though.
People would be so obsessed witheverything you put out there.

Steve (41:46):
I'm going to create an account for my cat.
I mean, my cat will, and, andthe cat will have like half a
million followers and I'll have 20.

Mica (41:54):
That will do well too.
I follow a, uh, a TikTok account.
They do like comparison videos betweentheir senior dog and their younger dog.
And I have a senior dogand a, and a younger dog.
So like it tugs at my heartstrings.
So your cat could be famous.

Steve (42:13):
I would work for my cat eventually.
I know how that would go down.
Yeah.
It's, it's really good.
It's a really good medium fortransmitting ideas and doing really quick.
But I don't do a lot of education anymore,and I don't think a lot of the people
who pay my bills, who I'm working withhigher up, in the ranks, are on TikTok.
They're not there yet.
The future art directors of theworld are all on TikTok, and

(42:34):
they're coming off the ranks.
And it's just a differentway of communicating.
At the end of the day, it'sjust like the visual results
of what you create for people.
And there's a lot of distractionsout there as far as, I do
want to do more education.
I do want to do, more social media.
But I, my, my primary goal is tocreate incredible shots for my clients.

Mica (42:58):
I want to ask you, cause I'm like super obsessed with this CGI conversation.
What was one overwhelming thingabout Houdini when you first
started learning about it?

Steve (43:08):
Literally every, the whole, the whole program,
everything like I got into it.
I didn't even know which direction Ididn't understand vectors or normals
or man, this is a conversation thatcould really, yeah, um, I know I've,
so I, I started from the ground up.
It took major discipline.
I didn't even know I had, I wassuper frustrated at the beginning.
I felt dumb.
You're starting from scratch, evenif you know your stuff artistically.

(43:32):
I think it's having like Houdiniis really special because I have
a monitor that's in front of me.
That's a Wacom tablet that I doall my retouch on, but in Houdini,
it's just the, it's the sandbox.
In Houdini, you have nodes and everynode is like something you plug into.
It's almost like audio equipmentwhere you plug something into
something else and something else.
There's like a chain that,that funnels down vertically

(43:53):
or horizontally in Houdini.
Where it's just a set ofinstructions that follow.
So if you want to createa box, there's a box node.
If you want to create a liquidsimulation, there's a liquid simulation
set of nodes that you have to and youcould spend your whole career just
understanding liquid simulations.
I have friends who just do that.
They're liquid CG artists.
That's it.

(44:13):
You can create your own tools.
I have a system that is justa liquid launching tool.
So when I drag it onto my nodegraph, it just starts up and
the lights are all in place.
I have a whole lighting system thatI can drop in in like two seconds.
And you just create these systemsover time that, uh, that are just like
actions in Photoshop that save you time.
I have a virtual studio set up.

(44:34):
I drag in and I can be up andgoing within seconds in Houdini.
Yeah, it's, it's, I would start, Iwould start with Houdini, actually,
because it just teaches you more about3D than any other software program.
I use RealityCapture for scanningphysical assets into 3D, and I use
ZBrush, which is a sculpting softwarefor cleaning those models up.

(44:55):
Sometimes sculpting my own things, so it'sa visual sculpting clay program they use
on the Wacom tablet, so you actually canactually draw on a piece of virtual clay.
Sometimes I'll do it in VR,you can actually physically
touch the clay and mold it.
So you can create pots or plates.
So you can see immediately howlike time consuming this is.
So some clients arejust like, let's do it.

(45:16):
If you if you want to see a goodexample of a company fully embracing
this CG technology into their dayto day visuals is, I think it's a,
it's not a company I work for, butthey do the truffle tomato sauce and
the truffle oils are called truth.
I think TRU FF, fantasticvisuals coming out of there.
So much fun.
And so they, they're fullyon board with that stuff.

(45:37):
They don't do it for everything,but , it's just another tool.
So I'd really recommend it, but I,I wouldn't tell everybody to do it.
Cause it is a major time commitment.
It is like understanding motionis challenging, but this is a
whole another level if you'restarting as a photographer,
going into additional techniques.
It can take years of your lifeto get this under your belt just

(45:59):
to start even at a basic level.
And then even that it's just overwhelming.
I sit down if I'm just gonna havefun in 3D and just experiment.
I can spend half an hour just tryingto figure out what the heck I'm gonna
do where isn't it when I walk intothe studio mess around I just grab
a plate grab a thing shoot it itThere, there is a lot to be said for

(46:22):
constraining your artistic options.
But CGI forces you to do thatinternally, not just externally.
It's a really good tool for learning.
I would, I would recommend thatover almost anything else for really
understanding the visual arts ingeneral, from a technical standpoint.
I'd really recommend it, but I don'trecommend it lightly because it is,
like I said, a major commitment.

Mica (46:44):
It sounds so fascinating and it sounds like very futuristic.
I'm always thinking about what's nextfor photography and what role do I
play in that or how can I use that?
To grow or what skills canI add on to this arsenal of
skill sets that I already have?
How do you envision the future of foodand beverage photography and what role

(47:08):
do you see CGI playing in that evolution?

Steve (47:13):
I think it's going to come slow.
I think clients are very traditional andI wouldn't say set in their ways, but
they know it works and they know whatthey want and they're, they just want it.
It'll be a slow process so you justhave to you have to show the work.
It's not gonna be for everybody.
In fact, like I said, you cancollaborate with food stylist.
You could also collaboratewith a 3D artist.

(47:34):
If you have, you know a photo or amotion project and you want something
CG in there just reach out to ayounger 3D student they're more than
usually more than happy to kind ofcollaborate on something like that.
Hopefully this brings to light some ofthe different techniques that the general
day to day generalists, especiallyin something like food where CG's not
used that much, um, is, is sort of the,a really fun place to be right now.

Mica (47:59):
I'm curious about Houdini now.
I'm gonna I'm gonna jumpright into it when I.

Steve (48:03):
Careful.
Yeah, it could be, uh, it could suck youin fast and spit you out the other side.
It's,

Mica (48:08):
I love those little rabbit holes, I want to close out this
interview with one last question, whatpersonal philosophy has guided you
throughout your career and it continuesto inspire you now in your work?

Steve (48:23):
I think the general philosophy, I don't have like a, a mantra that
I hang over the door of my studio oranything, but I, I would say like the,
the biggest thing is just consistency.
I learned that in cooking.
What we're doing isn't like rocketscience and you just have to come
in every day and give it the best.
It's corny, but for, for an artist likeme, who has a scatterbrain, it's not

(48:46):
the easiest thing to sit down and putyour butt in the seat and commit to
something that can be very nerve wracking,sometimes very sporadic and, and busyness.
You have to wear a lot of different hats.
In the kitchen, you have towear a lot of different hats.
This is possibly even morein the photography business.
But yeah, I think it would justbe, to be consistent to show up.

Mica (49:06):
I love that.
I love that.
I know you mentioned that you don'tdo a lot of educational courses today.
Could you see yourselfdoing a course on, on CGI?
You've spent so many years studying itand now you're pushing it out there.
Is that something that you couldsee yourself teaching in the future?

Steve (49:23):
Possibly.
I think from a foodstandpoint, yeah, yeah.
I, I, there's so many people whoare, freelancers for ILM or other
people who just have absolutelymastered it and it would school me.
I care about the output.
I don't care how I get there.
So I'm pretty scrappy with the3D thing and I'm pretty scrappy
with how I work, which doesn'treally translate to education.
I've taught before about what I knowand I've delivered it as far and wide

(49:46):
as I could, especially early on, Ithink even before I was really ready.
I had some interesting ideas to share, butit's hard to translate what's going on in
my head to a one, two, three kind of stepfor people to kind of follow along with.
I'm all over the place usually.
Which is great sometimes in, ingenerating imagery, because I think, a
director, you go to see a director ona movie set, they're very disciplined,

(50:07):
but if you had to explain them howthey made a movie, they'd be like.

Mica (50:11):
Uh,

Steve (50:12):
I, so I've, I've tried to put that in words before.
And I, I don't know, like, what do youwant to, what do you want to show people?
Some of it's just so simple.
I'm like, I don't liketalking about gear at all.
I don't care.
Like, I know what certain lenses looklike, but I don't, I don't really.
I need light here, not light therethat I'm very like, how many stops?

(50:35):
I don't even, I don't know.
I'll feel through it.
I'll feel through it.
And I've gotten, if you do it longenough, it's very instinctual.
So teaching is something I might try againdown the road, but I think there's so many
people doing it right now who are veryspecific in what they want to teach and
know everything about that one subject.
And they're really goodresources to look to.
The liquid CGI guy or the retouching guy.

(50:56):
There's so many peoplewho are very honed in.
I'm very broad in what I, so I canoversee projects and get them done
teaching a specific subject mightbe, but I'll probably dabble in
it again down the road for sure.
So you might see more of mein that regard, but not in the
next five years, I don't think.

Mica (51:12):
No, you're going to, you're, you're going to be in, in CGI Lala magic land.
I mean, every time I see a photo popup on your Instagram and you talk about
like it's a CGI and this is what I waslike, oh my god, that looks so amazing.
I'm gonna be obsessed with this.

(51:32):
I swear, this is my last question, ifa photographer came to you and they
were wanting to know more about this.
About CGI, like whatresources helped you learn?
Were there like books or links oranything that helped you along the way?

Steve (51:49):
I know that SideFX, who makes Houdini, S I D E F X.
They have a YouTube channel that hasenormous amounts of really good content.
I physically will go to theconference they occasionally have
in, last one was in Vancouver, B.
C., and it was all about CG.
Render man, which is Pixar'sprimary render engine was there.
Intagma is another YouTubechannel that is fantastic.

(52:12):
They're very scientific, very...
It can be sometimes hard tofollow for a newcomer, but man,
they do some really good work.
I use V Ray as my primary render engine.
I was going to use RenderMan, but V Ray...
Is like the camera in 3D, I suppose.
That actually renders the physicalimage and uses physics to do so.

(52:33):
Redshift is another enginethat's just fast, but everything
looks really plasticky.
It's gotten better, but as itgets better, it gets a lot slower.
I think V Ray is really surprisingly.
I didn't think I'd go withthem, but they're really good.
I'm.
So looking at their website,they interview people.
They have something called the CGGarage where they interview people
in the business from all backgrounds,whether they're working on movies or

(52:54):
games or advertising, super interesting.
This is long form stuff,so it can be a little dry.
It takes some concentration over along period of time to pick this stuff
up because man, yeah, it's, it's, uh.

Mica (53:04):
You had to like pause and then rewind it and then play it
and go, wait, what did I just hear?
And then go back.

Steve (53:10):
Those are the, yeah, those are the primary resources.
I think that's a good place to start.
And then you'll naturally branch out,you'll see people that resonate with
you that who are doing things that youwant to do, and you'll just follow them.

Mica (53:20):
What advice would you give to any photographer who
is hesitant or just completelyagainst uh, AI, CGI, any of that?

Steve (53:31):
I would say I there's no reason to be against.
A render engine and acamera doing the same thing.
It's just as real as a camera.
There's no one.
There's nothing that's morereal than the other, especially
when using scanned assets.
That are real to begin with.
You're manipulating reality ofthe second you press the shutter.
And there's literally a milliondifferent ways to be creative.
It's just, if you're going tobe successful, I think it's just

(53:53):
about patience and making theright moves at the right time.
What's going on in the industry,what's going on in the economy,
there's just so many different factors.
If you're not up for that, there'sother ways to be in the creative fields
that are more consistent, I suppose.
There's just so much going on all the timethat being kind of an outlier photographer
in a studio may not be the only way to go.
So yeah, hopefully I can justshare some of my techniques.

(54:17):
Then that, you know, maybe somebodyjust wants to focus only on CG
and that's a good way to go too.

Mica (54:22):
Yeah, you could be a liquid splash specialist CG.
I mean, that sounds,

Steve (54:28):
They're in demand.
They're heavily in demand.
Yeah.

Mica (54:30):
That is like a conversation I would want to have with someone.
Be like, wait, you do what?

Steve (54:35):
Yeah.
I know, I saw somepeople I can get on that.
You can have, you couldprobably have on the show.
I don't know how busy they are,but they do a lot of work for ESPN.
Anytime you see something flowing,whether it's in a movie or a TV
commercial, there was a, probably aliquid artist who understood how to
guide liquids, which is not easy to do.

Mica (54:51):
Oh my gosh.
I would love to have a conversation.
I mean, I just, I want to have aconversation with food stylists
who specialize in ice cream onlybecause I think that's super cool.
It's so like defined.
So that's super cool.

Steve (55:07):
I'll put you in touch with them.

Mica (55:08):
Get me in touch with them.
I would love that.
Where can the listeners, if theyshould be following you at this point,
cause you're awesome, but if they'renot, where can they follow you?
Where can they support you, learn moreabout you, see your work, all that jazz?

Steve (55:25):
It's Instagram for me right now.
At Steve Hanson Visuals.
Yeah.
Uh, HN, SEN, um, and the websitesmostly is for my clients to, there's
some high resolution stuff in there.
That's the website, stevehansonvisuals.
com.
Which is currently beingupdated and that's it for now.
I'll probably spread it once Istart doing teaching again, I'll
probably go further on that.

Mica (55:46):
Well, if you end up on TikTok, whether it's your work or your cat,
I'm following, because both areinteresting topics as well, so.

Steve (55:58):
Or a cat in the studio.

Mica (56:00):
That would be.

Steve (56:02):
Shooting BTS on a GoPro.

Mica (56:05):
Right, there is a, there is a TikTok channel.
There's a guy, he.
And he attached a GoPro camera to hisdog and he's like, I'm just curious
to see what my dog's day is like.
And that is what he posts on his Tik Tok.
This is a dog and I'm moreinterested in the dog's day than

(56:26):
I am in my own husband's day.
And, and, you know, sold it.
There's a little bit ofsomething for everyone.
So if you jump on there,I'm, I'm there with you.
I'll follow you where you go.

Steve (56:41):
Sounds good to me.

Mica (56:42):
Thank you so much for being on the show.
This was one of my favorite conversationsof the year, and I want to have more
about the, about everything about thefuture, about everything, but thank
you so much for being on the show.

Steve (56:56):
Absolutely.
Thanks for having me.
It was a pleasure.