October 25, 2023 • 54 mins
In this interview with Simi Jois, a food photographer, she discusses her journey into the world of culinary optics and the importance of capturing the essence of a brand through photography. Simi emphasizes the need for asking questions and understanding the brand's values to create impactful and aligned imagery. She also shares insights on creative blocks, the beauty of innocence in photography, and the importance of taking breaks to allow creativity to ferment and percolate.
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Savory Shot Shownote: https://micamccook.com/guests/simijois/ Website: https://micamccook.com/podcast Instagram: www.instragram.com/mica.mccook Instagram: www.instagram.com/thesavoryshotpodcast Would you like to be a guest on the show? Fill out the guest form, and we'll be in touch soon.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Mica (00:00):
Welcome to the, what is this, the 36th episode?
Wait, let me, let me check before,let me check before I, uh, say that.
Ah!
I was like two episodes ahead.
(00:21):
Let's try that again.
Welcome to the 35thepisode of The Savory Shot.
Guys, y'all, I can't believewe're in the 35th episode.
I know I say this every intro about howshocked I am, but I really am shocked.
(00:48):
Amazing.
35 episodes.
If this is your 35th timejoining me, or your first time
joining me, welcome to the show.
Welcome to The Savory Shot.
Y'all know who I be.
My name is Mica McCook.
I'm a food photographerbased in Austin, Texas.
(01:10):
I want to start the show off with...
My gratitude.
Thank you so much for being here.
Thank you for your support.
If this is your first time joiningus, thank you for the chance.
I hope you stick around,because we besties now.
We BFFs.
And if this is your 35th time joiningme, thank you for sticking around.
(01:33):
This show would not be herewithout you, the listeners.
Head over to Apple Podcastsand give me a five star review.
Only five star reviews.
I don't want no twos or threes.
Fives.
Five, five, fives.
Y'all.
I am so excited about this episode.
(01:58):
You are in for a treat.
Have you ever met someone, and right offthe bat, the energy is just electric?
You skip all the small talk andyou just dive deep into the meat
and potatoes of a conversation.
That is what today's interview was like.
(02:20):
Without further ado, Iintroduce to you Simi Joyce.
Y'all, Simi Jois is a foodphotographer based in Chicago.
Chicago, Illinois.
6 0 6 5 2.
Does anyone remember thatcommercial with Scruff McGruff?
Scruff, McGruff, Chicago, Illinois.
(02:41):
6 0 6 5 2.
Yeah, that's what I think.
Whenever I think of Simi Jois, Ithink of Scruff McGruff, but she
is based out of Chicago and she'sjust a beautiful human being.
(03:02):
I'm so happy that she is here today.
This conversation was one of the mostinspirational, motivational, all the
ationals that I've ever experienced.
Today's episode is just colorful.
(03:24):
I think that's the onlyway to describe it.
It's just colorful.
The way that Simi talks about art,the way she talks about self care
and prioritizing self care, what todo when you find yourself in this
situation creative drag this rutt.
(03:47):
Y'all.
If this doesn't inspire you ormotivate you to grab that camera
and start shooting away like apaparazzi, then I don't know what will.
So I don't want to waste your timebecause I know you got things to
do, places to go, people to see, andI want to make every second count
(04:09):
because you could have been anywhere.
You could have been doing anything, butyou're here with me and that means a lot.
So grab some coffee,some tea, if you prefer.
Vodka, wherever you're at, it couldbe five o'clock somewhere, grab
your martini, whatever you got todo, center yourself and get ready.
(04:31):
Let's start the show.
(05:10):
I want to start off by thankingyou so much for being on the show.
I am so excited about theconversation that we're about to have.
We've been chatting it up for, good20 minutes and I'm like, Oh, I already
know this is going to be a good time.
So thank you so muchfor being on the show.
Simi (05:29):
Thanks, Mica.
I'm equally excited and I've beenlooking forward to this and I'm
like, okay, is it three o'clock yet?
Is it three o'clock yet?
I don't want to miss this.
So I'm being equally excitedto have this conversation.
I think meeting like minded peopleand talking about what we love,
I think it's the best thing.
And sometimes we make afriendship that lasts.
(05:51):
a lifetime.
And last few years, that'swhat has happened with me.
I made some friends online,which I have never met.
We are so close.
And it's amazing that we've never met.
So I'm looking forward to this.
Mica (06:04):
We've met now and.
It's such a small world.
I interviewed food stylist RishonHanners in Birmingham, Alabama, recently.
It's so funny how everythingcomes in full circle.
So I recently worked with a propstylist named Audrey Davis and while
we were discussing the project,she mentioned that she worked in
(06:27):
Birmingham, Alabama for a little while.
I mentioned Rishon and I waslike "Hey, do you know her?"
And she's like, "Yeah, actually I do.
We're really great friends."
And then after the shoot Audrey shareda behind the scenes photo and another
mutual friend, his name is Yuhsing, weare in a mentorship program together.
(06:49):
He commented that he knew Audrey, andhe's like, "Hey, tell Audrey I said hi."
And I mentioned it to Audrey, and shewas like, "Oh yeah, I do know Yuhsing.
He's a mutual friend of my friend Mel,"and so we met, and he's in New York.
It just got me thinking, how small isthis creative world that even though
(07:12):
we're all in different parts of thecountry, somehow, like there's seven
degrees to so and so, like you eitherhave worked with someone or you know
someone that has worked with them.
The fact that, we're meeting now, I'msure that we have so many mutuals at
this point that it feels like we've justknown each other for life at this point.
Simi (07:31):
I agree.
I second that.
Mica (07:33):
So shout out to Audrey and to Rishon and Yuhsing.
Hello everybody.
I actually want to get right into thisbecause I've been so excited about this.
I saw it on my calendar, our interviewcoming up, and I was like, oh, yay, yay,
yay, yay, so let's get right into this.
I want to go back to your beginning.
You had a career in advertising beforetransitioning to food photography,
(07:59):
take me back to the moment when yourealized that a change was needed.
Did you know right from the start thatfood photography was the path for you?
Simi (08:11):
You know, I've been a late bloomer and for years, I think I was
lost as to what do I really want?
So I tried my hand at advertising.
I was a media planner.
Crunching numbers and doing all of that.
It was fun, but I knew thatthat's not where I belong.
After that, I tried a lot of things.
(08:31):
I tried to learn how to playthe piano and it's probably the
hardest thing I've ever done.
That didn't go so well.
My mother is an artist.
She was naturally my firstteacher and I knew how to draw
and how to do oil painting.
So I dabbled a bit in that.
I was still finding the juicemissing from my life, in terms
(08:54):
of expressing myself creatively.
As I grew older, I felt thisneed to express, that something
in me needs to be voiced.
And for no particular reason, likea flower blooms, just to voice that.
And I said, okay, I'm goingto be patient with myself.
Meanwhile, I loved to cook, I loved,exploring new recipes and even
(09:20):
the traditional Indian recipes.
I said, okay, let me justdocument all of these.
I started doing that.
And I said, okay, let medocument them with a picture.
That's the first time I took apicture and I was like, what is this?
It just doesn't look anythinglike what I have cooked.
It looks terrible.
That got me excitedbecause I love to learn.
(09:42):
I started exploring about the camera,about light, about color, texture.
And the deeper I got into it,it just felt I've come home.
Even when I was taking most terriblepictures, I was just so happy doing it.
I was just so excited andhappy and learning and seeing
where am I going wrong.
(10:03):
I've also realized that thisis photography is something
you can never stop learning.
Every day you learn something.
Every time you up yourcamera you learn something.
And that's what I love about itbecause it's never a low stake.
There's always be something, Ineed to learn or I need to master
or express in a different way.
Mica (10:25):
You mentioned earlier that you felt like you had a need to express yourself.
When you realized that about yourself,that you needed to express something.
Did you know exactly whatyou needed to express?
Simi (10:41):
You know what?
It's such a beautiful question.
Because I think creativity is so fluid.
And it's so ethereal.
You can never pin it down with words.
Or with anything.
It's just that feeling in the heartwhen you just composed an image.
It may not be the best image in the world.
(11:01):
It may not be the imagethat wins an award.
You mothered that through you.
I really don't think I have thecapability or the capacity to even put
that into words, that what was it orwhat is it right now for me, right?
It's that something, and probably,you know what, I would also not
(11:22):
like to describe it because it's sobeautiful, just left untouched by words.
Mica (11:28):
It's like as soon as you identify it, it loses that, that magic.
I view photography as that carrotthat's always being dangled in
front of you and every photographer,they want to catch that carrot.
They want to reach that point where theylook at their work and they're like, I
have reached perfection as a photographer.
But as you said, it, it is never ending.
(11:50):
It's very fluid.
I love that you said that andthat's just such a really awesome
perspective to have on it.
I want to move to your conversation withEmpiricsAsia, because you used a term
that I'd never, ever seen in my life,and I was just like, this is so cool.
(12:12):
You mentioned culinary optics.
So I want to dive deeperinto what that means to you.
Simi (12:19):
Sure.
Before that, I would like to tellyou how that name came to being.
I was sitting with myhusband and we were talking.
He's very good with words.
I said, you need to pen two words.
One is my passion for food andtranslate that into photography.
And please don't say food photography.
Something that has that sassto it and I forgot about it.
(12:41):
He came back in a week andhe says, culinary optics.
I was like, what?
Because I had forgotten about it.
He's like, yeah, you asked me somethingand , this is what I came up with.
Oh my God, I love it.
So that's where it comes from.
Culinary world is, it's like a deepworld, not just a food of textures, of
(13:04):
colors, but it's a story of heritage.
It's a story of family.
It's a story of friendship.
We sit around the table, we share a meal.
I How fortunate.
We all are to enjoythat moment of intimacy.
Where we are sharing the same meal,we are laughing, we are talking.
That is in a sense whatculinary means to me.
(13:29):
And optics is how just a piece ofglassware can capture all of that and all
of the things that are unsaid and presentit to someone who is not present there.
Which documents that moment of, sharingand caring and food and the textures
and the color and the storytelling.
(13:49):
So I think that it'stwo loaded words for me.
Mica (13:52):
The loaded words are always the best.
It's like that very heavy question.
They go, so how did youget into food photography?
And you're like "Well, yougot like five hours because."
Simi (14:08):
Okay.
Question one.
Five hours.
Mica (14:12):
Question one
It's so funny.
When you told your husband, don't usefood photographer, it reminds me of
the mentorship that I'm in right now.
They had us come up with three keywordsto describe us as photographers.
In my case, food photographer.
I use the word vibrant.
And so like the group of mentors,they're like, I want you to dig deeper.
(14:36):
Vibrant is a great word, but that'swhat every food photographer uses.
So I need you to go evendeeper to describe yourself.
It was such a challenge to think aboutwhat three words am I going to choose?
All the words on the planet, whatthree words am I going to choose?
So the next time I do that, we'regoing to hit up your husband so that
(14:58):
he can help us out with some words.
Simi (15:02):
Let's have secretly hire him to help us with.
We're good with images,we're not good with words.
Mica (15:09):
Yes, and so culinary optics, you mentioned about culinary being a
way that you can get to know someoneand it's a very intimate thing to
have a meal with a group of friends.
Whenever you work with brands, do youlike think of what do you want their,
(15:31):
their customers to know about this brand?
What story am I building up for this?
Does that have an impact on youwhen you're planning your shoots?
Simi (15:40):
Absolutely.
That's the foundation.
Where the shoot starts, orthe first conversation, what
does the brand stand for?
Does it stand for organic, vegan,authenticity or is it modern, fusion?
Everything in a sense is builtfrom what the brand stands for.
From the choice of colors to the props, whether we are using the human element
(16:04):
in it or how we are storytelling.
Because it's so important to integratethat brand within the imagery.
Especially for startups, I just love tohave a conversation with the design team.
So that everybody is in the same page,so we are all working together, and we
(16:25):
all understand that what is the archetypeof the brand, everything is aligned.
Of course, for seasoned brands,we already know and we are already
aware of what they stand for, andof course, the brief really helps.
Asking questions helps, and sometimesI can be quite a pain because I ask
too many questions, but I always feel,it's good to ask questions so that we
(16:50):
don't waste time when we are shooting.
We know what exactly weare doing on day of shoot.
Because every minute counts when,when people are paying for it and
you don't want to waste their time.
Mica (17:03):
I like what you said about asking questions so there's no,
no room for misunderstanding.
I tell new photographers, I'm like,if you are unsure of anything.
It is better to ask now, before, afterthe shoot, when there's nothing you can do
about it, besides to go back and re shoot.
(17:25):
Ask those questions now,and ask them plenty.
You can't go in to your shoot, if there'sanything that you don't fully understand.
You need to go back and make surethat you get a confirmation on them.
Simi (17:38):
We've all learned the hard way.
There have been a shoot earlier onwhere I walked in and I'm like, okay,
I'll shoot what they want me to.
Okay.
This is the rough brief.
Then you come back and they, they love it.
They're like, Oh my God, we love this.
We love this.
Then you come back and they'relike, okay, we don't like this.
We don't like that.
Human people change and differentcircumstances, we think differently.
So now everything is documented.
(18:00):
I love putting like these other 10takeaways and these other 10 things that
you know, it's not aligned with the brandor if you think that we need to rework
on it, let's get together and meet.
Meeting three, fourtimes before the shoot.
Really cuts down the amountof time you spend, even post
(18:21):
processing and doing all of that.
Mica (18:24):
Oh, the post processing.
Simi (18:28):
That's another, that's another podcast.
Mica (18:35):
I recently had a lead when I sent over the estimate and they saw one
of the line items for post productionand they're like, wait, what, what,
why are you charging me for that?
And I'm like I have to edit thephotos, this goes beyond the shoot.
And they're like, wow.
Really?
What did you think was gonna happen?
Simi (18:55):
A lot of people do think, I'm not kidding you.
A lot of people do think Photoshop islike a Xerox machine where you put a
crappy picture and out comes out the moststunning burger or steak or what have you.
Okay, that's a podcast for another day.
As I said You
Mica (19:19):
I'm trying not to laugh super duper hard, but in my soul, I'm dying
with laughter because that is exactlyhow I was when I started in photography.
I was just like, Photoshop willsave every crappy photo I've ever
taken, and it's so funny because evennow like, I know it won't fix it.
(19:42):
I know it won't fix it, butI'll learn some things, and
I'll go, maybe I could save it.
And I'll go find a photo from like, 2015,and it's the crappiest photo in the world.
I'll go back in Photoshop, and I'll tryto save it, and I'm like, let it go, bro.
Like, It's gone.
It's done.
There's no saving it And.
Simi (20:02):
You have to get over that picture.
Mica (20:04):
And so like with AI, the Photoshop started doing
all this, AI generative stuff.
I thought to myself,is it, is it time now?
Will I be able to save this crappy thing?
And I think it's because of what youmentioned earlier about how even though
this is not a good photo, there'sthat emotional attachment to it.
(20:26):
It may not be good.
It may not be.
It's probably not going tobe on a billboard, but it has
a special memory attached.
Are there any photos that come to mindthat you still go back to and look back
with fondness that maybe isn't so good,but still holds a special memory for you?
Simi (20:44):
Quite a few.
I recently posted on Instagrama very old picture of mine.
It was a cake kept on a tablewith a bunch of flowers.
I laughed at it becauseit was not the best.
Someone commented, it was in thestories, and someone sent me a
message saying, "This is beautiful."
I sent the message backsaying, Not so much.
And she said, "No,because it has innocence.
Mica (21:07):
Hmm.
Simi (21:08):
It was such a beautiful comment.
That I sat and looked at the picture andI said, it is innocent because, I had no
idea about the techniques or anything.
It's just a piece of beautifulcake sitting there, right?
That's one, then I don't know whether it'sit's about pictures that were not so good.
(21:33):
I don't judge my pictures, I just like theexperience of taking the pictures anymore.
Like I used to judgeevery picture coming out.
It's deep scrutiny.
Don't do that anymore.
But a few of years ago, I did a body ofwork for Adobe and it was photographing my
culture and tradition and food heritage.
(21:56):
I learned so much andI enjoyed so much that.
I was on a roll, I was asked tomake 250 images and at the end of
it, I was sitting on 600 images.
I really, really enjoyed it.
That's what photography is, anextension of ourselves, right?
It doesn't matter because today'spicture in 5-10 years, we're going to
(22:19):
look at it and probably not like itor like it and we change constantly.
But it's that experience, andwhen you're taking that picture,
you're making that connection.
That's what makes it so beautiful and sospecial and such a beautiful art form.
Mica (22:33):
I love that comment about innocence.
That is such a beautifulway of looking at it.
For the listeners who are newerphotographers to look at their
own work with that same love.
That self love.
There's this idea of I will onlystart to compliment my work when
it looks like this photographer.
(22:56):
Or I'll only consider myself,upper echelon when I can do this.
It's like no.
Enjoy every single step of theway and enjoy that innocence.
That innocent period as anew photographer, because
everything is just so new.
I love that.
I'm taking that with me forever.
(23:16):
I'll look at my own work with thatsame perspective about innocence,
about, being new and discovering.
You did a post on your blog, Tumeric 'nSpice, which I like, I went all the way,
I was loving it, I was loving everythingabout it, and, one of the many things
that stood out, was your piece on "Whatis a creative block?", and it really
(23:38):
struck a chord with me because therewas a period where I was trying so hard
to force myself to be creative, and myheart just wasn't in it, and it finally
took me just like stepping back andgoing, okay, I just need to go find other
outlets for the time being before I canget back in the studio, because obviously
(24:03):
this just isn't happening right now.
So that piece really strucka chord with me because every
single day that I was taking mybreak, I also felt pangs of guilt.
I still had my work and everything, butlike my personal projects was just, and
I thought I'm being a lazy photographer.
I'm not doing enough.
I'm not doing this, this, this,and this, and this, and no
(24:26):
wonder why that didn't happen.
It just went down all ofthese trails of negativity.
How do you navigate and differentiatebetween the moments of when you need
genuine rest versus when it mightbe procrastination, which I don't
believe that it's procrastination,but at what point is it, I need to
(24:49):
rest versus I should get my buttback out there and just do it?
Simi (24:57):
Mica, I love the question, because I'll start by saying
that this is a labor of love.
Say you have pet, do you for amoment stop loving the pet or
procrastinate to love the pet?
You don't, you just love.
We are in this culture that we arein, we are so used to go, go, go, go,
(25:17):
go, go, go, create, create, create.
This is also creating.
It's fermenting in you.
Something is fermenting in you,something is percolating in you.
Take a deep breath and sit down.
And I've learned that because for me,I've just been that kind of a person.
(25:38):
Okay, what's next?
Okay, I've cleaned this room,what do I need to clean next?
Okay, what do I do this?
This is my task list.
Just go, go, go, go, go.
And then I realize why am I doing this?
Why am I not taking the deep breath?
Then I realized that this is true forme, and it may not be true for a lot of
people, but if there is procrastinationhappening, there is something
(26:02):
underlying that is bothering your body.
It may not be just takingthe camera and doing that.
With me, I have seen, it's a skillI'm yet not comfortable with.
And I have to have the honesty toface it and say, you know what?
I'm afraid.
That's the reason I'm not doing this.
Now, I know that.
(26:24):
So now, get on with it, learnthe skill, and do the shoot.
Or, it could just be that you're goingthrough a healing phase, and healing phase
doesn't mean that something, the earthshattered and swallowed you or something.
It could be very simple as, feelingyour images are turning mediocre,
or you're not getting that joy, andyou just need to heal from that.
(26:47):
For each one of us, we have togo deeper and see what it is.
If it is procrastination, wehave to go inside in ourselves
and see why are we doing that?
What is it that is letting us talk?
And pause is also the process ofcreating, because you never know what
(27:08):
you'll do when you are taking time off.
You never know.
Opening yourself to a newer andnewer experience so that you
can bring that into your art.
Because we get so caughtup that we forget to see.
These pauses.
It just gives us that opportunity to see.
Mica (27:29):
I love that.
That analogy about your pet, you're right.
There's nothing my dogcan do, and he does a lot.
There's nothing my dog can do that wouldmake me not love him and make me not...
want to care for him.
What advice would you give to aphotographer who is struggling with
(27:51):
finding that love again, or they'reclose to not loving photography
and they might want to walk away.
Simi (27:59):
Walk away.
See how that feels like, right?
Sometimes it's okay to walk away andtake pause and say, you know what?
Maybe it lasted this long.
Maybe you'll find something else.
Why are we limiting ourselfor putting ourselves in boxes?
Just because we did something for 10years or 20 years, maybe there's music
(28:22):
waiting for you out there, right?
Giving yourself thepermission to be flexible.
And of course, the practical aspectdoes come in, you have to pay the
bills, you have your clients andthat's when you build your skill set.
That you can shoot a particular kindof food because you've done it so many
(28:42):
times that you're not compromising onthe quality of it just because you're
going through a phase where your creativejuices are, little sappy and dry, right?
That's why we keep doing these personalprojects again and again and again
to keep that skills alive, so thatyou can do it with your eye closed.
(29:03):
And you know exactly how tolight particular subject.
But, also to try somethingnew, to try playing the piano.
Now, not everybody canepic fail like I did.
Maybe you can become a music astro, right?
Or just gardening, orsomething else, right?
At the same time, even though I'm inmy low phase, I also try to photograph
(29:28):
something that I find challenging.
Like ice cream is a challengingsubject to work with.
Say I'm feeling low, but I'll stilldo it because I want to keep my
skill set alive, but I'm aware that,I'm feeling a little stretched out.
It'll take me longer andgive yourself the patience.
So it's like a fine tuning, finebalance where, it's your profession
(29:53):
and you also know it's a labor of love.
Mica (29:56):
I love your message of walk away.
Got a short life.
It's not bringing you joy.
Then walk away.
Some people realize thatprofessionally this isn't for them.
That is a really brave thing to admit.
Simi (30:10):
It's so brave and so wise.
It takes a level of wisdom tounderstand and not go in a rut
that everybody is in, right?
Or everybody's portraying theyare in, or who knows, right?
The world is very different fromwhat is shown versus what really is.
(30:32):
Especially social media, right?
Mica (30:34):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Photography doesn't have to besomething you make a living there.
It's a very brave thingto say, that scares me.
I don't want that.
That's not the kind of life that I want.
I want the stability.
I want the security.
And then I want to be ableto create on my own terms.
(30:56):
I don't want that added risk of,if I don't book a client, I'm not
going to be able to pay my bills.
I don't need that kind ofpressure on my shoulders.
It's a very brave thingto admit and be okay with.
Simi (31:10):
It's just brave to just follow your voice because in, in today's time,
it's so hard because we have made suchboxes of archetypes of who we should be.
Just to follow your voice takes a lot offighting your own demons and it also takes
so much courage and maturity to do that.
(31:33):
More power to people who knowwhat they want, which is the one
thing we need to know what wewant, and then to follow through.
Mica (31:42):
What advice would you give to a photographer who isn't sure of
what they want as as a profession,if they're thinking about pursuing
this professionally how would theygo about discovering that want?
Simi (31:57):
I think the best way is to just try.
It's just to go out there to localrestaurant and try a couple of shoots.
Firstly to hone your skill, to learnyour skill, to be good at what you
do, so that people can hire you.
And for that it.
Yes.
Practice, practice, practice,as I'm sure you, everyone who's
been picked up a camera knowsthat there is no secret sauce.
Mica (32:20):
What do they call it?
The the 10, 000 hours tobecome an expert at something?
Simi (32:24):
Exactly.
So after you've been done that,approach a few, local restaurant or
some brands on Instagram and askthem if you can take pictures for
them for the social media, right?
And try it out for yourself.
Each one of us have different experience.
My experience and my perceptionmay not be same as yours.
(32:45):
You may love to work with ateam and when you are in in food
photography, it's always teamwork.
Or you may like to workalone in your studio.
Trying your hand atsomething always helps.
I have a couple of my studentswho are trying that out right now.
They still have the day jobs and thenI'm like, don't change anything, right?
(33:07):
Try.
Test the waters.
Spend the time.
And see if you like it.
And then transition out.
If you enjoy it so much, geta couple of clients, which you
know, will come back to you.
That's my advice.
Yeah.
Mica (33:19):
So in your bio, you wrote that your upbringing was
surrounded by art and creativity.
I learned a new form ofscience, paleobotanist.
That's what your father was,but your mom was an artist.
And so you had color,texture, light, and shadow.
You said that they wereeveryday tools of expression.
(33:41):
I love, love that expression.
Did those early experiences shapeyour journey as a food photographer?
Simi (33:49):
Absolutely.
A hundred percent.
My mother is the artist, mydad was the scientist, but
they always worked like a team.
Because my mother would create.
She does embroidery, but she calls ithuman moods and thread, and my dad would
come home and they would sit with coffeefor hours together, talking about her
(34:12):
work of art and talking about textureand the color and the choices and what
could have made it better or how it couldbe if it was a green shirt or a dress.
And we would always be there as kids justparticipating and my mom would always
ask me, what do you think about it?
That's where it came becauseit sets your thinking.
(34:34):
Mom, you made her wear a red sari.
Why did you make it red and green?
She would tell us like,look at her earrings.
She has a little bit of the green in it.
So I wanted to bring thatout in the sari as well.
And then I would say, Oh, that'show you reinforce the color.
Probably if she, she didn't havethat green on her, I wouldn't
notice that that's green.
That's reinforcing what she has.
(34:56):
It was never taught to medirectly that this is what I'm
doing, but that's how I learned.
I tell that to my students, and I tellthem when you get up in the morning
to get dressed, do you have to thinkso much how to color coordinate?
Don't you just do it?
So we are all artists.
(35:18):
We all know how to use color.
Start with that, and thenexplore outside your box.
My mom would nudge us to, and when shewas teaching us how to paint, she would
nudge us, put our own she would say,yeah, I know this is how the flower
looks, how does it look to your eye?
(35:39):
That informed, the foundation ofseeing visually and interpreting
that in a different way that.
Understanding that a roseis different for everyone.
It means a different thing for everyone.
And my father's always been veryphilosophical, and he's always been the
kind to give us that space to experimentwith, and ask like a billion questions.
(36:06):
The combination of them, who they wereand who my mom is, just helped me grow.
It's only when you get out of the house,you realize how fortunate you were.
When you're in the household,you never know, you don't
understand when you're younger.
When you come out and you see, Oh, thisis not something that everyone does.
(36:27):
Oh, okay.
It comes naturally to me.
How come?
That's because there was so many yearsof watching her paint and mix colors.
Intuitively I can tell when I see colorwhat could be the undertone colors in it.
Sometimes people are working with me ormy students, they ask me, how do you know?
How do you know that ithas a hint of blue in it?
(36:48):
I used to think that'ssomething everyone can see.
I think it's just like seeing my motherplay with so many colors and watching
it, it just becomes a part of you.
She always loved to presentfood in a very, appetizing way.
It was just not a meal.
It was a celebration.
She still, at 85, hasthat patience to do it.
Like she made a cake few months ago.
(37:10):
I think it was Mother's Day andit was like, Happy Mother's Day.
I was like, okay, mom,where was the party?
She said, no, I just got a few of myfriends and we cut the cake and we ate it.
And it was so adorable.
So,
Mica (37:22):
I love that so much.
One thing I noticed about aboutyour post and about your blog and
just the interviews that you've doneis that you are so good at talking
about your work and expressinglike, this is the colors that I use.
This is the textures that I chose.
This is a story that I'm telling andit makes so much sense hearing you talk
(37:44):
about your, your mom telling you to talkabout the work that the art that she's
creating and to talk about art in general.
It's as important as learning howto work your camera, being able to
articulate the art that you're creatingand your dad being a scientist.
Scientists, their entire being is toask questions and to conduct experiments
(38:07):
to get an answer to this question.
As you were learning photography, doyou think your skills in being able
to talk about art helped you in yourjourney to learning photography?
Simi (38:21):
I love that question because I didn't even know, my dad and me
were the non artists of the house.
My sister and mother were the artistsand I didn't know I had any skill.
However, I did know that I wouldlook at a picture or look at
a painting and get lost in it.
So I knew that I hadthis deep love for art.
(38:45):
I didn't know that I could mix color.
I could do any of that.
When I started learning how to photograph,the camera was like this big, big,
huge, difficult, incredibly challenging,technical monster in front of me.
I thought there were ahundred knobs, literally.
(39:07):
And I was like, oh mygod, I'll never get this.
I realized the camera is an instrument.
It has to become an extension of you.
When I learned that, and I let goof trying to control the camera, I
started realizing, I have a vision.
(39:27):
I see that if I mix these two colors,this is what is going to happen.
Mica (39:31):
It's like when you have a lottery ticket and you're scratching off the
numbers and you're just like discoveringone new thing about yourself every
single time you scratch a number.
I just love that.
I love, love all of that.
What are some things thatthey can do to start learning
how to talk about their art?
Simi (39:48):
Journaling about their work.
It's so enriching as an experience.
Your journal is your own playground.
Nobody's going to read it.
You can write whatever.
You can make grammatical mistake.
You can make spelling mistake.
You can do whatever.
You can doodle there.
You can do whatever you want.
Journaling and maintaining that, whatwas the experience like to photograph
(40:10):
that flower today or that, Play Doh.
What was that moment whereI found the connection?
Once you start doing that, you justfind the words, they just come to you.
I realized one thing aboutart, any form or any skill is
you have to ferment it a bit.
You have to work on it.
(40:31):
It will not just come out of nowhereone fine day because you've done it.
You can't talk about your photographybecause you've done it 10 times.
Journaling really helps and alsolooking at podcasts like yourself,
listening to them, listening to otherphotographers talk gives us, sometimes
(40:51):
we create something, but we don't know.
What was the thinking behind it?
We genuinely don't know what youknow, but we love what we did.
But then we start see how othersdeconstruct their own pictures.
We de deconstruct ours and we learn.
So sometimes we are learningbackwards, sometimes we are not.
(41:12):
So it's like a fun maze we are in, right?
Isn't it just so beautiful thatlife could be like that for us?
Mica (41:18):
I love that the journaling and that being the one private place where you can
keep your thoughts literally to yourself.
Social media has made it to whereit makes you feel pressured that
you have to share everything.
And some things you wantto keep to yourself.
(41:38):
You can talk about the frustrationsthat you had with this shoot.
Or, maybe there's a anotherphotographer who you're, secretly
stalking and you're like, Oh my God,I want to know everything about them.
But don't like really stalk them.
Simi (41:52):
We don't recommend stalking here.
Mica (41:54):
You could go to jail for that.
That's illegal.
But I love that.
I love that.
In one of my classes, itwas photo journalism class.
Whenever we'd submit our photos, we alsohad to include a caption to the photo.
I don't know why that was themost difficult thing for me.
(42:15):
I could talk for five years abouta photo and I could give the story
about the behind the scenes, thecoming of, the actual taking place.
But when it came to that one line, thatone little two, maybe two sentences
of a caption, I was just stonewalled.
I was like, how could I possiblywrap everything that happened, this
(42:39):
heavy load into this two sentences?
I can't do it.
I can't do it.
It's impossible.
So I wonder if journaling would helpsummarize those feelings about how I feel
about a certain photo or what message I'mtrying to send whenever I post a photo.
Simi (42:57):
It's hard.
If I had to summarize it in a few words,that would be epic for me too because
we love to talk about what we create.
We love to talk behind the scene.
People love to talk aboutmood and everything.
It is a difficult, justto give a small caption.
It's always hard.
Mica (43:14):
Going back to earlier about picking the words to describe your work,
what three words would you choose asyour moral compass as a photographer?
Simi (43:27):
Passion.
Enjoyment.
Being.
Mica (43:33):
I love that.
Tell me the meaningsbehind those three words.
Simi (43:36):
Passion because it's an expression of something I love deeply.
Enjoyment.
Because, without enjoyment,why am I even doing it?
The whole purpose of having a mealout with your family, everything,
it's enjoying that moment and Beingis, photography is that space that
(43:58):
just grounds me to be who I am.
So yeah, passion, enjoyment, being.
Mica (44:05):
You mentioned earlier that you have students that you teach.
I'm curious to know alittle bit more about that.
What has surprised you the most?
About teaching other students photography?
Simi (44:18):
I think the fact that I learned so much.
Sometimes I tease my students.
I said, you know what?
You're paying me to learn.
They laugh and because perspective.
Normal perspective is so importantwhen you are a photographer because
it tells you that this is how someonecan look at something very different
(44:45):
from the way you're looking at it.
So when you're creating fora brand for someone else, you
have a broader perspective.
Mica (44:52):
When your students on their first day or their first class, what is
something that they're most excited about?
Do you think that they carry thatexcitement all the way through
to the very end of the course?
Simi (45:07):
They do.
You have to take that excitementand channel it to creativity.
I make it very clear thatthey need to learn, produce.
Excitement is all great,but it shouldn't be there.
What is it giving me concrete?
What am I learning here?
What am I doing here?
(45:27):
How am I channeling it here?
Mica (45:28):
I like what you said about channeling that excitement into a
direction into something concreteand tangible that they can walk
away with at the end of that class.
That is.
So important.
So I have one last question.
Two, two.
I always say I have one or twolast questions and the next thing
I know I'm asking like five.
Simi (45:51):
I'm enjoying it.
So we can talk for a few more hours.
Yes.
Yes.
Yes.
Yes.
Mica (45:56):
Whenever I do these interviews, people are like,
Holy crap, a whole hour went by.
I had no idea.
And That's right.
That's how I roll.
This isn't a job interview.
This is a conversation.
If we're not having fun, then, what's,what's, like you said, what's, if
you're not enjoying what you're doing,then what's the point in doing it?
When I was looking into yourbio and doing my research, you
(46:19):
mentioned that in your home, mealsalways center the conversation.
When you're having breakfast, you'retalking about lunch, and when you're
eating lunch, you're talking about dinner.
You married into a family that also lovesfood, which is like a steal of a deal.
Hello.
Luckily, my, my in laws areso food centered as well.
(46:42):
They're Jewish.
So I learned about Jewish food and Jewishculture and, and Passover is my favorite.
Cause I'm like, Ooh, all this wineI'm drinking, you know, all this
wine and this matzo ball soup.
So like from someone who comesfrom a family who loves food,
and also is centered around food.
(47:02):
Those are like memories thatI love and carry with me.
So I'm curious to know from yourperspective and from your own memories,
what's a memory that stands out that makesyou smile about your family and food?
Simi (47:16):
India, food is a huge celebration and every festival has its own menu.
And it's, in every region of the country.
So if you go to the east ofIndia, it's a different menu.
If you go to the west, it's different.
So literally every dish youcan write a book on it because
there'll be so many variants.
One such memory is that there is thisfestival called the Ganesh Chaturthi.
(47:41):
We just had it about two weeks ago.
We have an elaborate meal that isoffered to Ganesha, the elephant God.
And it's about, I would sayeight or 10 course meal.
I remember as a child, I would belike, do I have to eat this again?
(48:01):
Because it was just somany things to eat, right?
And over the years, it just grew on me.
I would anticipate and say,okay, what desert are you making?
Because the variance of, whatyou can do and what desert
are you gonna make this year?
Now I carry the tradition, I do thesame thing and that's a connection
(48:25):
that I have to my childhood andthat my daughter has, enjoys.
There's so many memories thatcome with food and come with
what was my dad's favorite.
And I make it now, I think abouthim or what is my mom's favorite.
My mom has got a huge, big sweet tooth.
(48:48):
And whenever I make a dessert,I have to send her a picture.
Everything is so food centric or mymother in law making, my favorite dish
for me or everybody in our household is.
We can have our own cook off here, right?
Mica (49:04):
Can, can I, can I come to the cook off?
I
I I can't cook, but I will happily eateverything and give everyone 10 stars.
Simi (49:16):
Yay, we all win.
Mica (49:17):
Everybody wins
Simi (49:20):
Everybody wins, yeah.
Mica (49:22):
One of my clients, we have become really great friends and
they invited us over for dinner andthey're both from India as well.
And she, had all told us, she'smake sure you like come hungry
with an empty stomach because, uh,we're going to have a good time.
My husband, who isnormally a bottomless pit.
(49:46):
He can eat so much food.
It seems like he always has room.
I don't understand it.
He's six foot five.
He weighs probably two pounds.
I don't know where it goes.
But that night, after we left andwe got in the car, and at some point
he said to me, he's I'm so full.
(50:09):
And that's just because she kept, itwas just never ending, and he's...
He's just eating and eating andeating and he was like, that was the
best meal I've ever had in my life.
This was a small meal.
It's five courses and Ibarely made it through three.
Like when four hit, I was like, I can'tI didn't even have dessert that night.
I took the dessert home becauseI was just, I was like comatose
(50:30):
by the time we got to the door.
I was like, I'm about tospend the night at your house.
I am so full.
But my husband, he made it throughthe whole meal, and I thought at one
point we were gonna have to pull overso that I could drive, because he
was so full, it was, he, ah, yeah.
So 10 course meal, I don'tknow if we could make it.
It's insane.
(50:51):
That's insane.
Simi (50:52):
Know what, you'll learn.
You'll hang out with me for a fewmonths, a few years, you'll learn.
Mica (50:59):
Hey, it's like you said, practice, right?
Simi (51:01):
Exactly.
To start practicing, three course, fourcourse, you're not having, what is this?
Just a bowl of soup?
No.
Where's the six course meal?
Yeah,
Mica (51:13):
I will start practicing now.
I'm gonna get ready forthis festival 10 course in.
Simi (51:18):
that's it
I'm
Mica (51:20):
And that's all there is to it.
Simi (51:22):
and your
Mica (51:23):
I'm here.
Simi (51:23):
now.
Mica (51:25):
I am now.
My, my last question for you is,what do you hope the listeners
learn from today's episode?
Simi (51:37):
I would love to have the listeners learn that, not to take life so seriously.
To enjoy what they do and just create.
Don't have to create for someoneor an exceptional artwork.
Today's exceptional artwork will betomorrow's mediocre artwork, or today's
mediocre, maybe tomorrow, exceptional art.
(51:58):
Enjoy what you do, and connect with peoplethrough food, and just enjoy yourself.
Just take out the burden of creating.
I think that's a huge burdenwe all tend to carry that, we
have to outdo our own selves.
We don't need to.
As long as we are having fun.
You enjoy creating it and justto be in that space of creation.
(52:25):
I think it'll just make the world somuch a better place because if we are all
happy with what we're doing and lovingour own lives so much, there is no time
for, criticism or hate or any of that.
Mica (52:39):
That's, that's awesome.
And I love it.
Where can the listenersfind you, legally stalk you?
Simi (52:48):
Hi, Hayden.
So they can find me in on Instagramculinaryoptics and Simi Jois on Facebook,
LinkedIn, my website, simijois.com.
That's all the information.
If you know about my work,about my workshops and I
think my email is there too.
(53:09):
And anyone has any questions orwant to ask me something after they
hear this podcast, most welcome.
I love to talk to people and love toget to know people and just connect.
Mica (53:23):
Thank you so much for being on the show.
I loved every second of this conversation.
I really, we could talk for5, 000 years and I don't think
I would ever get tired of it.
So we're, we're besties now.
We're BFFs and I look forward to moreconversations talking to you more.
(53:44):
Just thank you so muchfor being on the show.
Simi (53:46):
Thank you so much, Mica.
I really enjoyed it.
I don't, I don't thinkit sounds like a podcast.
It sounds like two crazy friendschatting and laughing and laughing at
their own jokes, I hope your audiencefinds it funny because we just enjoyed
it and this is just naturally us.
So thank you for everyone who willlisten to this and thank you to you.
Welcome to the, what is this, the 36th episode?
Wait, let me, let me check before,let me check before I, uh, say that.
Ah!
I was like two episodes ahead.
(00:21):
Let's try that again.
Welcome to the 35thepisode of The Savory Shot.
Guys, y'all, I can't believewe're in the 35th episode.
I know I say this every intro about howshocked I am, but I really am shocked.
(00:48):
Amazing.
35 episodes.
If this is your 35th timejoining me, or your first time
joining me, welcome to the show.
Welcome to The Savory Shot.
Y'all know who I be.
My name is Mica McCook.
I'm a food photographerbased in Austin, Texas.
(01:10):
I want to start the show off with...
My gratitude.
Thank you so much for being here.
Thank you for your support.
If this is your first time joiningus, thank you for the chance.
I hope you stick around,because we besties now.
We BFFs.
And if this is your 35th time joiningme, thank you for sticking around.
(01:33):
This show would not be herewithout you, the listeners.
Head over to Apple Podcastsand give me a five star review.
Only five star reviews.
I don't want no twos or threes.
Fives.
Five, five, fives.
Y'all.
I am so excited about this episode.
(01:58):
You are in for a treat.
Have you ever met someone, and right offthe bat, the energy is just electric?
You skip all the small talk andyou just dive deep into the meat
and potatoes of a conversation.
That is what today's interview was like.
(02:20):
Without further ado, Iintroduce to you Simi Joyce.
Y'all, Simi Jois is a foodphotographer based in Chicago.
Chicago, Illinois.
6 0 6 5 2.
Does anyone remember thatcommercial with Scruff McGruff?
Scruff, McGruff, Chicago, Illinois.
(02:41):
6 0 6 5 2.
Yeah, that's what I think.
Whenever I think of Simi Jois, Ithink of Scruff McGruff, but she
is based out of Chicago and she'sjust a beautiful human being.
(03:02):
I'm so happy that she is here today.
This conversation was one of the mostinspirational, motivational, all the
ationals that I've ever experienced.
Today's episode is just colorful.
(03:24):
I think that's the onlyway to describe it.
It's just colorful.
The way that Simi talks about art,the way she talks about self care
and prioritizing self care, what todo when you find yourself in this
situation creative drag this rutt.
(03:47):
Y'all.
If this doesn't inspire you ormotivate you to grab that camera
and start shooting away like apaparazzi, then I don't know what will.
So I don't want to waste your timebecause I know you got things to
do, places to go, people to see, andI want to make every second count
(04:09):
because you could have been anywhere.
You could have been doing anything, butyou're here with me and that means a lot.
So grab some coffee,some tea, if you prefer.
Vodka, wherever you're at, it couldbe five o'clock somewhere, grab
your martini, whatever you got todo, center yourself and get ready.
(04:31):
Let's start the show.
(05:10):
I want to start off by thankingyou so much for being on the show.
I am so excited about theconversation that we're about to have.
We've been chatting it up for, good20 minutes and I'm like, Oh, I already
know this is going to be a good time.
So thank you so muchfor being on the show.
Simi (05:29):
Thanks, Mica.
I'm equally excited and I've beenlooking forward to this and I'm
like, okay, is it three o'clock yet?
Is it three o'clock yet?
I don't want to miss this.
So I'm being equally excitedto have this conversation.
I think meeting like minded peopleand talking about what we love,
I think it's the best thing.
And sometimes we make afriendship that lasts.
(05:51):
a lifetime.
And last few years, that'swhat has happened with me.
I made some friends online,which I have never met.
We are so close.
And it's amazing that we've never met.
So I'm looking forward to this.
Mica (06:04):
We've met now and.
It's such a small world.
I interviewed food stylist RishonHanners in Birmingham, Alabama, recently.
It's so funny how everythingcomes in full circle.
So I recently worked with a propstylist named Audrey Davis and while
we were discussing the project,she mentioned that she worked in
(06:27):
Birmingham, Alabama for a little while.
I mentioned Rishon and I waslike "Hey, do you know her?"
And she's like, "Yeah, actually I do.
We're really great friends."
And then after the shoot Audrey shareda behind the scenes photo and another
mutual friend, his name is Yuhsing, weare in a mentorship program together.
(06:49):
He commented that he knew Audrey, andhe's like, "Hey, tell Audrey I said hi."
And I mentioned it to Audrey, and shewas like, "Oh yeah, I do know Yuhsing.
He's a mutual friend of my friend Mel,"and so we met, and he's in New York.
It just got me thinking, how small isthis creative world that even though
(07:12):
we're all in different parts of thecountry, somehow, like there's seven
degrees to so and so, like you eitherhave worked with someone or you know
someone that has worked with them.
The fact that, we're meeting now, I'msure that we have so many mutuals at
this point that it feels like we've justknown each other for life at this point.
Simi (07:31):
I agree.
I second that.
Mica (07:33):
So shout out to Audrey and to Rishon and Yuhsing.
Hello everybody.
I actually want to get right into thisbecause I've been so excited about this.
I saw it on my calendar, our interviewcoming up, and I was like, oh, yay, yay,
yay, yay, so let's get right into this.
I want to go back to your beginning.
You had a career in advertising beforetransitioning to food photography,
(07:59):
take me back to the moment when yourealized that a change was needed.
Did you know right from the start thatfood photography was the path for you?
Simi (08:11):
You know, I've been a late bloomer and for years, I think I was
lost as to what do I really want?
So I tried my hand at advertising.
I was a media planner.
Crunching numbers and doing all of that.
It was fun, but I knew thatthat's not where I belong.
After that, I tried a lot of things.
(08:31):
I tried to learn how to playthe piano and it's probably the
hardest thing I've ever done.
That didn't go so well.
My mother is an artist.
She was naturally my firstteacher and I knew how to draw
and how to do oil painting.
So I dabbled a bit in that.
I was still finding the juicemissing from my life, in terms
(08:54):
of expressing myself creatively.
As I grew older, I felt thisneed to express, that something
in me needs to be voiced.
And for no particular reason, likea flower blooms, just to voice that.
And I said, okay, I'm goingto be patient with myself.
Meanwhile, I loved to cook, I loved,exploring new recipes and even
(09:20):
the traditional Indian recipes.
I said, okay, let me justdocument all of these.
I started doing that.
And I said, okay, let medocument them with a picture.
That's the first time I took apicture and I was like, what is this?
It just doesn't look anythinglike what I have cooked.
It looks terrible.
That got me excitedbecause I love to learn.
(09:42):
I started exploring about the camera,about light, about color, texture.
And the deeper I got into it,it just felt I've come home.
Even when I was taking most terriblepictures, I was just so happy doing it.
I was just so excited andhappy and learning and seeing
where am I going wrong.
(10:03):
I've also realized that thisis photography is something
you can never stop learning.
Every day you learn something.
Every time you up yourcamera you learn something.
And that's what I love about itbecause it's never a low stake.
There's always be something, Ineed to learn or I need to master
or express in a different way.
Mica (10:25):
You mentioned earlier that you felt like you had a need to express yourself.
When you realized that about yourself,that you needed to express something.
Did you know exactly whatyou needed to express?
Simi (10:41):
You know what?
It's such a beautiful question.
Because I think creativity is so fluid.
And it's so ethereal.
You can never pin it down with words.
Or with anything.
It's just that feeling in the heartwhen you just composed an image.
It may not be the best image in the world.
(11:01):
It may not be the imagethat wins an award.
You mothered that through you.
I really don't think I have thecapability or the capacity to even put
that into words, that what was it orwhat is it right now for me, right?
It's that something, and probably,you know what, I would also not
(11:22):
like to describe it because it's sobeautiful, just left untouched by words.
Mica (11:28):
It's like as soon as you identify it, it loses that, that magic.
I view photography as that carrotthat's always being dangled in
front of you and every photographer,they want to catch that carrot.
They want to reach that point where theylook at their work and they're like, I
have reached perfection as a photographer.
But as you said, it, it is never ending.
(11:50):
It's very fluid.
I love that you said that andthat's just such a really awesome
perspective to have on it.
I want to move to your conversation withEmpiricsAsia, because you used a term
that I'd never, ever seen in my life,and I was just like, this is so cool.
(12:12):
You mentioned culinary optics.
So I want to dive deeperinto what that means to you.
Simi (12:19):
Sure.
Before that, I would like to tellyou how that name came to being.
I was sitting with myhusband and we were talking.
He's very good with words.
I said, you need to pen two words.
One is my passion for food andtranslate that into photography.
And please don't say food photography.
Something that has that sassto it and I forgot about it.
(12:41):
He came back in a week andhe says, culinary optics.
I was like, what?
Because I had forgotten about it.
He's like, yeah, you asked me somethingand , this is what I came up with.
Oh my God, I love it.
So that's where it comes from.
Culinary world is, it's like a deepworld, not just a food of textures, of
(13:04):
colors, but it's a story of heritage.
It's a story of family.
It's a story of friendship.
We sit around the table, we share a meal.
I How fortunate.
We all are to enjoythat moment of intimacy.
Where we are sharing the same meal,we are laughing, we are talking.
That is in a sense whatculinary means to me.
(13:29):
And optics is how just a piece ofglassware can capture all of that and all
of the things that are unsaid and presentit to someone who is not present there.
Which documents that moment of, sharingand caring and food and the textures
and the color and the storytelling.
(13:49):
So I think that it'stwo loaded words for me.
Mica (13:52):
The loaded words are always the best.
It's like that very heavy question.
They go, so how did youget into food photography?
And you're like "Well, yougot like five hours because."
Simi (14:08):
Okay.
Question one.
Five hours.
Mica (14:12):
Question one
It's so funny.
When you told your husband, don't usefood photographer, it reminds me of
the mentorship that I'm in right now.
They had us come up with three keywordsto describe us as photographers.
In my case, food photographer.
I use the word vibrant.
And so like the group of mentors,they're like, I want you to dig deeper.
(14:36):
Vibrant is a great word, but that'swhat every food photographer uses.
So I need you to go evendeeper to describe yourself.
It was such a challenge to think aboutwhat three words am I going to choose?
All the words on the planet, whatthree words am I going to choose?
So the next time I do that, we'regoing to hit up your husband so that
(14:58):
he can help us out with some words.
Simi (15:02):
Let's have secretly hire him to help us with.
We're good with images,we're not good with words.
Mica (15:09):
Yes, and so culinary optics, you mentioned about culinary being a
way that you can get to know someoneand it's a very intimate thing to
have a meal with a group of friends.
Whenever you work with brands, do youlike think of what do you want their,
(15:31):
their customers to know about this brand?
What story am I building up for this?
Does that have an impact on youwhen you're planning your shoots?
Simi (15:40):
Absolutely.
That's the foundation.
Where the shoot starts, orthe first conversation, what
does the brand stand for?
Does it stand for organic, vegan,authenticity or is it modern, fusion?
Everything in a sense is builtfrom what the brand stands for.
From the choice of colors to the props, whether we are using the human element
(16:04):
in it or how we are storytelling.
Because it's so important to integratethat brand within the imagery.
Especially for startups, I just love tohave a conversation with the design team.
So that everybody is in the same page,so we are all working together, and we
(16:25):
all understand that what is the archetypeof the brand, everything is aligned.
Of course, for seasoned brands,we already know and we are already
aware of what they stand for, andof course, the brief really helps.
Asking questions helps, and sometimesI can be quite a pain because I ask
too many questions, but I always feel,it's good to ask questions so that we
(16:50):
don't waste time when we are shooting.
We know what exactly weare doing on day of shoot.
Because every minute counts when,when people are paying for it and
you don't want to waste their time.
Mica (17:03):
I like what you said about asking questions so there's no,
no room for misunderstanding.
I tell new photographers, I'm like,if you are unsure of anything.
It is better to ask now, before, afterthe shoot, when there's nothing you can do
about it, besides to go back and re shoot.
(17:25):
Ask those questions now,and ask them plenty.
You can't go in to your shoot, if there'sanything that you don't fully understand.
You need to go back and make surethat you get a confirmation on them.
Simi (17:38):
We've all learned the hard way.
There have been a shoot earlier onwhere I walked in and I'm like, okay,
I'll shoot what they want me to.
Okay.
This is the rough brief.
Then you come back and they, they love it.
They're like, Oh my God, we love this.
We love this.
Then you come back and they'relike, okay, we don't like this.
We don't like that.
Human people change and differentcircumstances, we think differently.
So now everything is documented.
(18:00):
I love putting like these other 10takeaways and these other 10 things that
you know, it's not aligned with the brandor if you think that we need to rework
on it, let's get together and meet.
Meeting three, fourtimes before the shoot.
Really cuts down the amountof time you spend, even post
(18:21):
processing and doing all of that.
Mica (18:24):
Oh, the post processing.
Simi (18:28):
That's another, that's another podcast.
Mica (18:35):
I recently had a lead when I sent over the estimate and they saw one
of the line items for post productionand they're like, wait, what, what,
why are you charging me for that?
And I'm like I have to edit thephotos, this goes beyond the shoot.
And they're like, wow.
Really?
What did you think was gonna happen?
Simi (18:55):
A lot of people do think, I'm not kidding you.
A lot of people do think Photoshop islike a Xerox machine where you put a
crappy picture and out comes out the moststunning burger or steak or what have you.
Okay, that's a podcast for another day.
As I said You
Mica (19:19):
I'm trying not to laugh super duper hard, but in my soul, I'm dying
with laughter because that is exactlyhow I was when I started in photography.
I was just like, Photoshop willsave every crappy photo I've ever
taken, and it's so funny because evennow like, I know it won't fix it.
(19:42):
I know it won't fix it, butI'll learn some things, and
I'll go, maybe I could save it.
And I'll go find a photo from like, 2015,and it's the crappiest photo in the world.
I'll go back in Photoshop, and I'll tryto save it, and I'm like, let it go, bro.
Like, It's gone.
It's done.
There's no saving it And.
Simi (20:02):
You have to get over that picture.
Mica (20:04):
And so like with AI, the Photoshop started doing
all this, AI generative stuff.
I thought to myself,is it, is it time now?
Will I be able to save this crappy thing?
And I think it's because of what youmentioned earlier about how even though
this is not a good photo, there'sthat emotional attachment to it.
(20:26):
It may not be good.
It may not be.
It's probably not going tobe on a billboard, but it has
a special memory attached.
Are there any photos that come to mindthat you still go back to and look back
with fondness that maybe isn't so good,but still holds a special memory for you?
Simi (20:44):
Quite a few.
I recently posted on Instagrama very old picture of mine.
It was a cake kept on a tablewith a bunch of flowers.
I laughed at it becauseit was not the best.
Someone commented, it was in thestories, and someone sent me a
message saying, "This is beautiful."
I sent the message backsaying, Not so much.
And she said, "No,because it has innocence.
Mica (21:07):
Hmm.
Simi (21:08):
It was such a beautiful comment.
That I sat and looked at the picture andI said, it is innocent because, I had no
idea about the techniques or anything.
It's just a piece of beautifulcake sitting there, right?
That's one, then I don't know whether it'sit's about pictures that were not so good.
(21:33):
I don't judge my pictures, I just like theexperience of taking the pictures anymore.
Like I used to judgeevery picture coming out.
It's deep scrutiny.
Don't do that anymore.
But a few of years ago, I did a body ofwork for Adobe and it was photographing my
culture and tradition and food heritage.
(21:56):
I learned so much andI enjoyed so much that.
I was on a roll, I was asked tomake 250 images and at the end of
it, I was sitting on 600 images.
I really, really enjoyed it.
That's what photography is, anextension of ourselves, right?
It doesn't matter because today'spicture in 5-10 years, we're going to
(22:19):
look at it and probably not like itor like it and we change constantly.
But it's that experience, andwhen you're taking that picture,
you're making that connection.
That's what makes it so beautiful and sospecial and such a beautiful art form.
Mica (22:33):
I love that comment about innocence.
That is such a beautifulway of looking at it.
For the listeners who are newerphotographers to look at their
own work with that same love.
That self love.
There's this idea of I will onlystart to compliment my work when
it looks like this photographer.
(22:56):
Or I'll only consider myself,upper echelon when I can do this.
It's like no.
Enjoy every single step of theway and enjoy that innocence.
That innocent period as anew photographer, because
everything is just so new.
I love that.
I'm taking that with me forever.
(23:16):
I'll look at my own work with thatsame perspective about innocence,
about, being new and discovering.
You did a post on your blog, Tumeric 'nSpice, which I like, I went all the way,
I was loving it, I was loving everythingabout it, and, one of the many things
that stood out, was your piece on "Whatis a creative block?", and it really
(23:38):
struck a chord with me because therewas a period where I was trying so hard
to force myself to be creative, and myheart just wasn't in it, and it finally
took me just like stepping back andgoing, okay, I just need to go find other
outlets for the time being before I canget back in the studio, because obviously
(24:03):
this just isn't happening right now.
So that piece really strucka chord with me because every
single day that I was taking mybreak, I also felt pangs of guilt.
I still had my work and everything, butlike my personal projects was just, and
I thought I'm being a lazy photographer.
I'm not doing enough.
I'm not doing this, this, this,and this, and this, and no
(24:26):
wonder why that didn't happen.
It just went down all ofthese trails of negativity.
How do you navigate and differentiatebetween the moments of when you need
genuine rest versus when it mightbe procrastination, which I don't
believe that it's procrastination,but at what point is it, I need to
(24:49):
rest versus I should get my buttback out there and just do it?
Simi (24:57):
Mica, I love the question, because I'll start by saying
that this is a labor of love.
Say you have pet, do you for amoment stop loving the pet or
procrastinate to love the pet?
You don't, you just love.
We are in this culture that we arein, we are so used to go, go, go, go,
(25:17):
go, go, go, create, create, create.
This is also creating.
It's fermenting in you.
Something is fermenting in you,something is percolating in you.
Take a deep breath and sit down.
And I've learned that because for me,I've just been that kind of a person.
(25:38):
Okay, what's next?
Okay, I've cleaned this room,what do I need to clean next?
Okay, what do I do this?
This is my task list.
Just go, go, go, go, go.
And then I realize why am I doing this?
Why am I not taking the deep breath?
Then I realized that this is true forme, and it may not be true for a lot of
people, but if there is procrastinationhappening, there is something
(26:02):
underlying that is bothering your body.
It may not be just takingthe camera and doing that.
With me, I have seen, it's a skillI'm yet not comfortable with.
And I have to have the honesty toface it and say, you know what?
I'm afraid.
That's the reason I'm not doing this.
Now, I know that.
(26:24):
So now, get on with it, learnthe skill, and do the shoot.
Or, it could just be that you're goingthrough a healing phase, and healing phase
doesn't mean that something, the earthshattered and swallowed you or something.
It could be very simple as, feelingyour images are turning mediocre,
or you're not getting that joy, andyou just need to heal from that.
(26:47):
For each one of us, we have togo deeper and see what it is.
If it is procrastination, wehave to go inside in ourselves
and see why are we doing that?
What is it that is letting us talk?
And pause is also the process ofcreating, because you never know what
(27:08):
you'll do when you are taking time off.
You never know.
Opening yourself to a newer andnewer experience so that you
can bring that into your art.
Because we get so caughtup that we forget to see.
These pauses.
It just gives us that opportunity to see.
Mica (27:29):
I love that.
That analogy about your pet, you're right.
There's nothing my dogcan do, and he does a lot.
There's nothing my dog can do that wouldmake me not love him and make me not...
want to care for him.
What advice would you give to aphotographer who is struggling with
(27:51):
finding that love again, or they'reclose to not loving photography
and they might want to walk away.
Simi (27:59):
Walk away.
See how that feels like, right?
Sometimes it's okay to walk away andtake pause and say, you know what?
Maybe it lasted this long.
Maybe you'll find something else.
Why are we limiting ourselfor putting ourselves in boxes?
Just because we did something for 10years or 20 years, maybe there's music
(28:22):
waiting for you out there, right?
Giving yourself thepermission to be flexible.
And of course, the practical aspectdoes come in, you have to pay the
bills, you have your clients andthat's when you build your skill set.
That you can shoot a particular kindof food because you've done it so many
(28:42):
times that you're not compromising onthe quality of it just because you're
going through a phase where your creativejuices are, little sappy and dry, right?
That's why we keep doing these personalprojects again and again and again
to keep that skills alive, so thatyou can do it with your eye closed.
(29:03):
And you know exactly how tolight particular subject.
But, also to try somethingnew, to try playing the piano.
Now, not everybody canepic fail like I did.
Maybe you can become a music astro, right?
Or just gardening, orsomething else, right?
At the same time, even though I'm inmy low phase, I also try to photograph
(29:28):
something that I find challenging.
Like ice cream is a challengingsubject to work with.
Say I'm feeling low, but I'll stilldo it because I want to keep my
skill set alive, but I'm aware that,I'm feeling a little stretched out.
It'll take me longer andgive yourself the patience.
So it's like a fine tuning, finebalance where, it's your profession
(29:53):
and you also know it's a labor of love.
Mica (29:56):
I love your message of walk away.
Got a short life.
It's not bringing you joy.
Then walk away.
Some people realize thatprofessionally this isn't for them.
That is a really brave thing to admit.
Simi (30:10):
It's so brave and so wise.
It takes a level of wisdom tounderstand and not go in a rut
that everybody is in, right?
Or everybody's portraying theyare in, or who knows, right?
The world is very different fromwhat is shown versus what really is.
(30:32):
Especially social media, right?
Mica (30:34):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Photography doesn't have to besomething you make a living there.
It's a very brave thingto say, that scares me.
I don't want that.
That's not the kind of life that I want.
I want the stability.
I want the security.
And then I want to be ableto create on my own terms.
(30:56):
I don't want that added risk of,if I don't book a client, I'm not
going to be able to pay my bills.
I don't need that kind ofpressure on my shoulders.
It's a very brave thingto admit and be okay with.
Simi (31:10):
It's just brave to just follow your voice because in, in today's time,
it's so hard because we have made suchboxes of archetypes of who we should be.
Just to follow your voice takes a lot offighting your own demons and it also takes
so much courage and maturity to do that.
(31:33):
More power to people who knowwhat they want, which is the one
thing we need to know what wewant, and then to follow through.
Mica (31:42):
What advice would you give to a photographer who isn't sure of
what they want as as a profession,if they're thinking about pursuing
this professionally how would theygo about discovering that want?
Simi (31:57):
I think the best way is to just try.
It's just to go out there to localrestaurant and try a couple of shoots.
Firstly to hone your skill, to learnyour skill, to be good at what you
do, so that people can hire you.
And for that it.
Yes.
Practice, practice, practice,as I'm sure you, everyone who's
been picked up a camera knowsthat there is no secret sauce.
Mica (32:20):
What do they call it?
The the 10, 000 hours tobecome an expert at something?
Simi (32:24):
Exactly.
So after you've been done that,approach a few, local restaurant or
some brands on Instagram and askthem if you can take pictures for
them for the social media, right?
And try it out for yourself.
Each one of us have different experience.
My experience and my perceptionmay not be same as yours.
(32:45):
You may love to work with ateam and when you are in in food
photography, it's always teamwork.
Or you may like to workalone in your studio.
Trying your hand atsomething always helps.
I have a couple of my studentswho are trying that out right now.
They still have the day jobs and thenI'm like, don't change anything, right?
(33:07):
Try.
Test the waters.
Spend the time.
And see if you like it.
And then transition out.
If you enjoy it so much, geta couple of clients, which you
know, will come back to you.
That's my advice.
Yeah.
Mica (33:19):
So in your bio, you wrote that your upbringing was
surrounded by art and creativity.
I learned a new form ofscience, paleobotanist.
That's what your father was,but your mom was an artist.
And so you had color,texture, light, and shadow.
You said that they wereeveryday tools of expression.
(33:41):
I love, love that expression.
Did those early experiences shapeyour journey as a food photographer?
Simi (33:49):
Absolutely.
A hundred percent.
My mother is the artist, mydad was the scientist, but
they always worked like a team.
Because my mother would create.
She does embroidery, but she calls ithuman moods and thread, and my dad would
come home and they would sit with coffeefor hours together, talking about her
(34:12):
work of art and talking about textureand the color and the choices and what
could have made it better or how it couldbe if it was a green shirt or a dress.
And we would always be there as kids justparticipating and my mom would always
ask me, what do you think about it?
That's where it came becauseit sets your thinking.
(34:34):
Mom, you made her wear a red sari.
Why did you make it red and green?
She would tell us like,look at her earrings.
She has a little bit of the green in it.
So I wanted to bring thatout in the sari as well.
And then I would say, Oh, that'show you reinforce the color.
Probably if she, she didn't havethat green on her, I wouldn't
notice that that's green.
That's reinforcing what she has.
(34:56):
It was never taught to medirectly that this is what I'm
doing, but that's how I learned.
I tell that to my students, and I tellthem when you get up in the morning
to get dressed, do you have to thinkso much how to color coordinate?
Don't you just do it?
So we are all artists.
(35:18):
We all know how to use color.
Start with that, and thenexplore outside your box.
My mom would nudge us to, and when shewas teaching us how to paint, she would
nudge us, put our own she would say,yeah, I know this is how the flower
looks, how does it look to your eye?
(35:39):
That informed, the foundation ofseeing visually and interpreting
that in a different way that.
Understanding that a roseis different for everyone.
It means a different thing for everyone.
And my father's always been veryphilosophical, and he's always been the
kind to give us that space to experimentwith, and ask like a billion questions.
(36:06):
The combination of them, who they wereand who my mom is, just helped me grow.
It's only when you get out of the house,you realize how fortunate you were.
When you're in the household,you never know, you don't
understand when you're younger.
When you come out and you see, Oh, thisis not something that everyone does.
(36:27):
Oh, okay.
It comes naturally to me.
How come?
That's because there was so many yearsof watching her paint and mix colors.
Intuitively I can tell when I see colorwhat could be the undertone colors in it.
Sometimes people are working with me ormy students, they ask me, how do you know?
How do you know that ithas a hint of blue in it?
(36:48):
I used to think that'ssomething everyone can see.
I think it's just like seeing my motherplay with so many colors and watching
it, it just becomes a part of you.
She always loved to presentfood in a very, appetizing way.
It was just not a meal.
It was a celebration.
She still, at 85, hasthat patience to do it.
Like she made a cake few months ago.
(37:10):
I think it was Mother's Day andit was like, Happy Mother's Day.
I was like, okay, mom,where was the party?
She said, no, I just got a few of myfriends and we cut the cake and we ate it.
And it was so adorable.
So,
Mica (37:22):
I love that so much.
One thing I noticed about aboutyour post and about your blog and
just the interviews that you've doneis that you are so good at talking
about your work and expressinglike, this is the colors that I use.
This is the textures that I chose.
This is a story that I'm telling andit makes so much sense hearing you talk
(37:44):
about your, your mom telling you to talkabout the work that the art that she's
creating and to talk about art in general.
It's as important as learning howto work your camera, being able to
articulate the art that you're creatingand your dad being a scientist.
Scientists, their entire being is toask questions and to conduct experiments
(38:07):
to get an answer to this question.
As you were learning photography, doyou think your skills in being able
to talk about art helped you in yourjourney to learning photography?
Simi (38:21):
I love that question because I didn't even know, my dad and me
were the non artists of the house.
My sister and mother were the artistsand I didn't know I had any skill.
However, I did know that I wouldlook at a picture or look at
a painting and get lost in it.
So I knew that I hadthis deep love for art.
(38:45):
I didn't know that I could mix color.
I could do any of that.
When I started learning how to photograph,the camera was like this big, big,
huge, difficult, incredibly challenging,technical monster in front of me.
I thought there were ahundred knobs, literally.
(39:07):
And I was like, oh mygod, I'll never get this.
I realized the camera is an instrument.
It has to become an extension of you.
When I learned that, and I let goof trying to control the camera, I
started realizing, I have a vision.
(39:27):
I see that if I mix these two colors,this is what is going to happen.
Mica (39:31):
It's like when you have a lottery ticket and you're scratching off the
numbers and you're just like discoveringone new thing about yourself every
single time you scratch a number.
I just love that.
I love, love all of that.
What are some things thatthey can do to start learning
how to talk about their art?
Simi (39:48):
Journaling about their work.
It's so enriching as an experience.
Your journal is your own playground.
Nobody's going to read it.
You can write whatever.
You can make grammatical mistake.
You can make spelling mistake.
You can do whatever.
You can doodle there.
You can do whatever you want.
Journaling and maintaining that, whatwas the experience like to photograph
(40:10):
that flower today or that, Play Doh.
What was that moment whereI found the connection?
Once you start doing that, you justfind the words, they just come to you.
I realized one thing aboutart, any form or any skill is
you have to ferment it a bit.
You have to work on it.
(40:31):
It will not just come out of nowhereone fine day because you've done it.
You can't talk about your photographybecause you've done it 10 times.
Journaling really helps and alsolooking at podcasts like yourself,
listening to them, listening to otherphotographers talk gives us, sometimes
(40:51):
we create something, but we don't know.
What was the thinking behind it?
We genuinely don't know what youknow, but we love what we did.
But then we start see how othersdeconstruct their own pictures.
We de deconstruct ours and we learn.
So sometimes we are learningbackwards, sometimes we are not.
(41:12):
So it's like a fun maze we are in, right?
Isn't it just so beautiful thatlife could be like that for us?
Mica (41:18):
I love that the journaling and that being the one private place where you can
keep your thoughts literally to yourself.
Social media has made it to whereit makes you feel pressured that
you have to share everything.
And some things you wantto keep to yourself.
(41:38):
You can talk about the frustrationsthat you had with this shoot.
Or, maybe there's a anotherphotographer who you're, secretly
stalking and you're like, Oh my God,I want to know everything about them.
But don't like really stalk them.
Simi (41:52):
We don't recommend stalking here.
Mica (41:54):
You could go to jail for that.
That's illegal.
But I love that.
I love that.
In one of my classes, itwas photo journalism class.
Whenever we'd submit our photos, we alsohad to include a caption to the photo.
I don't know why that was themost difficult thing for me.
(42:15):
I could talk for five years abouta photo and I could give the story
about the behind the scenes, thecoming of, the actual taking place.
But when it came to that one line, thatone little two, maybe two sentences
of a caption, I was just stonewalled.
I was like, how could I possiblywrap everything that happened, this
(42:39):
heavy load into this two sentences?
I can't do it.
I can't do it.
It's impossible.
So I wonder if journaling would helpsummarize those feelings about how I feel
about a certain photo or what message I'mtrying to send whenever I post a photo.
Simi (42:57):
It's hard.
If I had to summarize it in a few words,that would be epic for me too because
we love to talk about what we create.
We love to talk behind the scene.
People love to talk aboutmood and everything.
It is a difficult, justto give a small caption.
It's always hard.
Mica (43:14):
Going back to earlier about picking the words to describe your work,
what three words would you choose asyour moral compass as a photographer?
Simi (43:27):
Passion.
Enjoyment.
Being.
Mica (43:33):
I love that.
Tell me the meaningsbehind those three words.
Simi (43:36):
Passion because it's an expression of something I love deeply.
Enjoyment.
Because, without enjoyment,why am I even doing it?
The whole purpose of having a mealout with your family, everything,
it's enjoying that moment and Beingis, photography is that space that
(43:58):
just grounds me to be who I am.
So yeah, passion, enjoyment, being.
Mica (44:05):
You mentioned earlier that you have students that you teach.
I'm curious to know alittle bit more about that.
What has surprised you the most?
About teaching other students photography?
Simi (44:18):
I think the fact that I learned so much.
Sometimes I tease my students.
I said, you know what?
You're paying me to learn.
They laugh and because perspective.
Normal perspective is so importantwhen you are a photographer because
it tells you that this is how someonecan look at something very different
(44:45):
from the way you're looking at it.
So when you're creating fora brand for someone else, you
have a broader perspective.
Mica (44:52):
When your students on their first day or their first class, what is
something that they're most excited about?
Do you think that they carry thatexcitement all the way through
to the very end of the course?
Simi (45:07):
They do.
You have to take that excitementand channel it to creativity.
I make it very clear thatthey need to learn, produce.
Excitement is all great,but it shouldn't be there.
What is it giving me concrete?
What am I learning here?
What am I doing here?
(45:27):
How am I channeling it here?
Mica (45:28):
I like what you said about channeling that excitement into a
direction into something concreteand tangible that they can walk
away with at the end of that class.
That is.
So important.
So I have one last question.
Two, two.
I always say I have one or twolast questions and the next thing
I know I'm asking like five.
Simi (45:51):
I'm enjoying it.
So we can talk for a few more hours.
Yes.
Yes.
Yes.
Yes.
Mica (45:56):
Whenever I do these interviews, people are like,
Holy crap, a whole hour went by.
I had no idea.
And That's right.
That's how I roll.
This isn't a job interview.
This is a conversation.
If we're not having fun, then, what's,what's, like you said, what's, if
you're not enjoying what you're doing,then what's the point in doing it?
When I was looking into yourbio and doing my research, you
(46:19):
mentioned that in your home, mealsalways center the conversation.
When you're having breakfast, you'retalking about lunch, and when you're
eating lunch, you're talking about dinner.
You married into a family that also lovesfood, which is like a steal of a deal.
Hello.
Luckily, my, my in laws areso food centered as well.
(46:42):
They're Jewish.
So I learned about Jewish food and Jewishculture and, and Passover is my favorite.
Cause I'm like, Ooh, all this wineI'm drinking, you know, all this
wine and this matzo ball soup.
So like from someone who comesfrom a family who loves food,
and also is centered around food.
(47:02):
Those are like memories thatI love and carry with me.
So I'm curious to know from yourperspective and from your own memories,
what's a memory that stands out that makesyou smile about your family and food?
Simi (47:16):
India, food is a huge celebration and every festival has its own menu.
And it's, in every region of the country.
So if you go to the east ofIndia, it's a different menu.
If you go to the west, it's different.
So literally every dish youcan write a book on it because
there'll be so many variants.
One such memory is that there is thisfestival called the Ganesh Chaturthi.
(47:41):
We just had it about two weeks ago.
We have an elaborate meal that isoffered to Ganesha, the elephant God.
And it's about, I would sayeight or 10 course meal.
I remember as a child, I would belike, do I have to eat this again?
(48:01):
Because it was just somany things to eat, right?
And over the years, it just grew on me.
I would anticipate and say,okay, what desert are you making?
Because the variance of, whatyou can do and what desert
are you gonna make this year?
Now I carry the tradition, I do thesame thing and that's a connection
(48:25):
that I have to my childhood andthat my daughter has, enjoys.
There's so many memories thatcome with food and come with
what was my dad's favorite.
And I make it now, I think abouthim or what is my mom's favorite.
My mom has got a huge, big sweet tooth.
(48:48):
And whenever I make a dessert,I have to send her a picture.
Everything is so food centric or mymother in law making, my favorite dish
for me or everybody in our household is.
We can have our own cook off here, right?
Mica (49:04):
Can, can I, can I come to the cook off?
I
I I can't cook, but I will happily eateverything and give everyone 10 stars.
Simi (49:16):
Yay, we all win.
Mica (49:17):
Everybody wins
Simi (49:20):
Everybody wins, yeah.
Mica (49:22):
One of my clients, we have become really great friends and
they invited us over for dinner andthey're both from India as well.
And she, had all told us, she'smake sure you like come hungry
with an empty stomach because, uh,we're going to have a good time.
My husband, who isnormally a bottomless pit.
(49:46):
He can eat so much food.
It seems like he always has room.
I don't understand it.
He's six foot five.
He weighs probably two pounds.
I don't know where it goes.
But that night, after we left andwe got in the car, and at some point
he said to me, he's I'm so full.
(50:09):
And that's just because she kept, itwas just never ending, and he's...
He's just eating and eating andeating and he was like, that was the
best meal I've ever had in my life.
This was a small meal.
It's five courses and Ibarely made it through three.
Like when four hit, I was like, I can'tI didn't even have dessert that night.
I took the dessert home becauseI was just, I was like comatose
(50:30):
by the time we got to the door.
I was like, I'm about tospend the night at your house.
I am so full.
But my husband, he made it throughthe whole meal, and I thought at one
point we were gonna have to pull overso that I could drive, because he
was so full, it was, he, ah, yeah.
So 10 course meal, I don'tknow if we could make it.
It's insane.
(50:51):
That's insane.
Simi (50:52):
Know what, you'll learn.
You'll hang out with me for a fewmonths, a few years, you'll learn.
Mica (50:59):
Hey, it's like you said, practice, right?
Simi (51:01):
Exactly.
To start practicing, three course, fourcourse, you're not having, what is this?
Just a bowl of soup?
No.
Where's the six course meal?
Yeah,
Mica (51:13):
I will start practicing now.
I'm gonna get ready forthis festival 10 course in.
Simi (51:18):
that's it
I'm
Mica (51:20):
And that's all there is to it.
Simi (51:22):
and your
Mica (51:23):
I'm here.
Simi (51:23):
now.
Mica (51:25):
I am now.
My, my last question for you is,what do you hope the listeners
learn from today's episode?
Simi (51:37):
I would love to have the listeners learn that, not to take life so seriously.
To enjoy what they do and just create.
Don't have to create for someoneor an exceptional artwork.
Today's exceptional artwork will betomorrow's mediocre artwork, or today's
mediocre, maybe tomorrow, exceptional art.
(51:58):
Enjoy what you do, and connect with peoplethrough food, and just enjoy yourself.
Just take out the burden of creating.
I think that's a huge burdenwe all tend to carry that, we
have to outdo our own selves.
We don't need to.
As long as we are having fun.
You enjoy creating it and justto be in that space of creation.
(52:25):
I think it'll just make the world somuch a better place because if we are all
happy with what we're doing and lovingour own lives so much, there is no time
for, criticism or hate or any of that.
Mica (52:39):
That's, that's awesome.
And I love it.
Where can the listenersfind you, legally stalk you?
Simi (52:48):
Hi, Hayden.
So they can find me in on Instagramculinaryoptics and Simi Jois on Facebook,
LinkedIn, my website, simijois.com.
That's all the information.
If you know about my work,about my workshops and I
think my email is there too.
(53:09):
And anyone has any questions orwant to ask me something after they
hear this podcast, most welcome.
I love to talk to people and love toget to know people and just connect.
Mica (53:23):
Thank you so much for being on the show.
I loved every second of this conversation.
I really, we could talk for5, 000 years and I don't think
I would ever get tired of it.
So we're, we're besties now.
We're BFFs and I look forward to moreconversations talking to you more.
(53:44):
Just thank you so muchfor being on the show.
Simi (53:46):
Thank you so much, Mica.
I really enjoyed it.
I don't, I don't thinkit sounds like a podcast.
It sounds like two crazy friendschatting and laughing and laughing at
their own jokes, I hope your audiencefinds it funny because we just enjoyed
it and this is just naturally us.
So thank you for everyone who willlisten to this and thank you to you.
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