April 17, 2024 • 50 mins
Have you ever wondered if you're really on the right career path?
Imagine the courage it takes to step off a predictable path and plunge into the unknown. That's the story of Evan Sung, a former literature student who walked away from the planned road for something different.
Meet Evan Sung: A Portrait of ChangeEvan Sung wasn't always destined to be a food photographer. His initial academic journey in literature seemed set, but deep down, Evan felt a disconnect. His real passion lay elsewhere—in the world of photography. From a Craigslist ad that led to his first photography job to capturing over 40 cookbooks, Evan's story is a testament to following your heart.
In today's episode, we explore how Evan Sung made the leap from academia to the dynamic field of food photography. His experiences range from high-pressure kitchen shoots to serene moments capturing the artistry on a plate.
If Evan’s journey resonates with you, maybe it’s time to listen to those whispers of change. Whether it’s a hobby that’s calling you or a dream you've shelved for too long, consider what your first step could be towards a career that fills you with excitement every morning.
💬 Join the ConversationSavory Shot Shownote: https://austinfoodguide.com/2024/04/15/evansung
Website: www.austinfoodguide.com/podcast
Instagram: www.instragram.com/mica.mccook
Instagram: www.instagram.com/thesavoryshotpodcast
Would you like to be a guest on the show? Fill out the guest form, and we'll be in touch soon.
Special ThanksAnd before we wrap up, a huge shoutout to our sponsor, Flodesk, for supporting this episode. Don't forget to check out their email design services tailored for food photographers, and enjoy an exclusive discount just for our listeners!
So, are you ready to turn your limitations into your greatest strengths? Tune in now, and let's embark on this creative journey together. After all, the best masterpieces often come from the most unexpected places! 🚀✨ Get 50% off your first year by using the code: SAVORYSHOT50 Visit Flodesk now
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Mica (00:00):
Welcome to the 46th episode of The Savory Shot.
A podcast about the art and soulof working in food photography.
Y'all know who I'll be.
I'm your host with the most, Mica McCook.
I am a food photographerbased out of Austin, Texas.
(00:22):
I want to start this par-tayoff by thanking y'all, the
listeners, for showing up, y'all,I can't do this show without you.
So whether it's your first time,your 46th time, your bazillionth
time, it doesn't matter.
Thank you so much forlistening, for showing up.
But let's talk abouttoday's episode y'all.
(00:43):
Have you ever felt like you're on atreadmill in your current job and you're
dreaming about pursuing your passionin photography, but you are terrified
by the uncertainty of a career change.
You're not alone in your struggle.
First and foremost, imagine wakingup every day, knowing you're
(01:07):
about to do something you love.
Imagine being surrounded by people whoare in careers they absolutely love.
And then imagine feeling thecomplete opposite of that.
Y'all, there is no worse feelingthan being in a room full of people
who are doing exactly what theywant to be doing and you're not.
You want to pursue photographyfull time, but it's a big leap.
(01:28):
Moving from a traditional job intothe arts, especially in today's world.
Sure, the journey is filled withenriching, transformative experiences,
personal growth, blah, blah, blah.
Everything that those coaches tell you.
But ultimately, it's still a risk.
The fear of the unknown is real.
(01:49):
It's scary to step away from a securepaycheck and jump into something as
subjective and fluctuating as photography.
And I get it.
Y'all I truly do get it.
I myself have been throughseveral career changes.
I originally went to college tobecome a theater arts teacher.
I realized three years into my educationthat my heart just wasn't in it.
(02:12):
I dropped out of college and I hoppedaround from job to job for nearly
10 years before I found photography,but even then I was only able to
pursue this goal, this dream of mine,because my husband supported me.
So I was able to take thatrisk, but that's not everybody.
Some of y'all have bills to pay.
(02:34):
You have kids depending on you.
You are the breadwinner.
It's a lot.
It's a big risk, which is why I'mexcited to talk about today's episode.
Joining us is Evan Sung, a renownedfood photographer based in New
York, who also made a career change.
Evan has captured everything,stunning culinary stories from across
(02:57):
the globe and his work has gracedthe pages of major publications.
Y'all, he has photographedover 40 cookbooks.
What?
He's collaborated with the topchefs in the culinary world.
And fun fact, he found his firstphotography job through a Craigslist ad.
I think that's really cool.
(03:18):
Today Evan will share his inspiring story.
Practical advice for those contemplatinga shift toward a career behind the lens.
Y'all, this episode is so meaty.
I know some of y'all willrelate to a lot of the things
that Evan says and talks about.
Hearing him talk about photography andthe energy he brings to his shoot, how he
(03:42):
builds rapport with chefs is just a teenytiny small bit of what we talked about.
We'll I won't waste any more time.
We're going to get into this.
But before we do grab yourcoffee, grab your tea.
If it's five o'clock somewhere whereyou're at, grab a cocktail and a glass of
wine, get comfy and let's start the show.
(05:07):
Evan, I am so excited that you are here.
This is just.
Starting off to be a banging dayand we're in for good conversation.
And I just really want to thank youfor coming on the show and being here.
Evan (05:23):
Thank you for having me.
No, it's great to be talking with you.
Mica (05:27):
Yes, Yes.
I really, I want to dive right in.
I've got a lot of meat andpotato questions to ask.
So if you're ready, Iam going to get right.
Evan (05:37):
Let's go.
Mica (05:38):
Awesome.
Awesome.
When I was doing my research on youand listening to past episodes that you
interviewed on and I heard about yourstory about moving to Los Angeles and
then realizing this isn't really for me.
I have to find my way.
That resonated so much with me becausethat's my experience, except with theater.
I was in theater all in middleschool, all through high school.
(06:01):
I went through college and a yearbefore I was supposed to graduate,
realizing I didn't want to teach.
And I just dropped out and myfamily was like, what are you doing?
You're almost
done.
Evan (06:12):
or you were gonna
Mica (06:13):
theater?
Yeah.
I was going to teacha high school theater.
And I did a, in not an internship, butI did like a shadow day behind a theater
arts teacher and home girl looks stressed.
And I'm like, I really don't want that.
I don't want that for my life.
But leaving that was really conflictingbecause my whole identity was wrapped in
(06:36):
theater and who am I outside of theater?
So listening to your storythat really touched my heart.
What I wanna know from you is lookingback at that experience, what did you
see then that you couldn't see now?
Evan (06:51):
Just that feeling that things will work out, things will be okay.
I didn't have a deep connection withphotography when I made that decision.
It was a recent hobby that I hadstarted to play with and explore.
And when I was in California, I wasin Irvine not LA, but hour and a
half south in Southern California.
I just felt very displacedon realizing that.
(07:13):
That graduate program wasn't whatI wanted, even though for a long
time, I thought it was that was alldisorienting and photography at that
point was like art therapy for me.
It was a place where I couldexplore my feelings and channel
them into something else.
It was not a given that going intophotography at that point would work out.
(07:33):
I didn't know anythingabout the business of it.
and it really wasn't somethingI'd ever thought about before.
It was really just this kind of
Mica (07:41):
be
Evan (07:43):
if I'm not doing this graduate program, what, who am I, what do I do?
And I always say moving back to New Yorkas a New Yorker is a complicated thing.
A lot of people moving to NewYork is a place to start something
new and begin an adventure.
But for me, I was born in NewYork, raised in Manhattan.
So coming back to Manhattan felta little bit like defeat and a
(08:04):
little bit like, moving backwards.
So I had to figure out what Ican do to make it not feel like
a backwards step to move forward.
There was never any sensethat it would work out.
Whether it worked out or not, I thinkthere's always just this journey and trust
that you make good decisions and, payattention to what's going on around you.
In the moment it's easier to feel alittle bit panic and a little bit unsure.
(08:27):
If your head's in the right place andyou're just concentrating on forward
motion things will things will happen.
Mica (08:33):
That is such a hard thing to know and believe.
When you made that decision, you're like,okay, this graduate program isn't for me.
I am leaving this moment.
What were you feeling in thatmoment when you made that decision?
Evan (08:50):
I just knew, I think I gave it every shot I could to make sure
I wasn't making a rash decisionand leaving that graduate program.
I was very excited to have gotten intoit and it's a very esteemed program.
It was a comparative literatureprogram at UC Irvine.
So I was thrilled, Iwas thrilled to get in.
And it was just life circumstances thatmade it clear that it wasn't really
(09:13):
going to be the right path for me.
Like I said, there was apprehension, therewas fear, there was a sense of, when you
think you know what you're doing and thenyou realize that maybe you got it wrong.
That's an unsettling feeling.
So it was all bound up in apprehension,and also just holding my nose and
closing my eyes and jumping inand seeing where this would go.
(09:34):
I was lucky, of course,seeing my family's here.
So I wasn't going to New York without anyresources or any backup or any network.
It still felt like starting overagain and, and my understanding
of who I was supposed to be.
Mica (09:50):
Oh, absolutely.
I tell a lot of people is that thechoices you make, the decisions you
make, it's really no one's business.
If it's right for you, thenmove forward and trust yourself.
And a lot of photographers don'tknow how to trust themselves.
In whatever decision making, they'reseeking so many outside sources
(10:11):
of someone telling them, here'sthe map, here's what to do, rather
than trusting their own instincts.
Evan (10:17):
It comes from time and experience too.
You have to make some mistakes and thenrealize that some instincts you have
aren't good and some instincts have aregood and you learn to sort through them.
I would be mistrustful of anyone whenyou knew right off the bat that every
decision they made was the right decision.
There's always a little bit of roomfor doubt and uncertainty, that's
obviously just the path of learning.
(10:39):
You make some choices and you realize,oh, that wasn't the right one, but you
recalculate your path and then figureout what to do differently next time.
Mica (10:47):
For sure.
For sure.
There's, there's, there'sno finality and mistakes.
You can try it again and try it again.
You mentioned that you got your firstphotography job through Craigslist,
which I miss Craigslist, no offenseto Facebook Marketplace, but I
furnished my first apartment with
Evan (11:07):
Yeah.
Mica (11:09):
had the free section, I used to call it Craiglistin'.
Evan (11:12):
Back in the day, it was amazing.
Not only did it get me my job,when I moved back to New York and
I wanted to start shooting formyself, that was a big part of the
my formation was photographing.
I decided to photograph artistsin their studios and all those
artists I found through Craigslist.
I just put up listings on Craigslist andpeople reached out and I look at their
(11:32):
work, but all those connections happenedthrough Craigslist back in the day.
Mica (11:36):
Shout out to Craigslist, I hope you're not full of spam anymore.
We miss you.
We miss you so much.
You mentioned that in this firstjob that it was through Comstock.
What was the most unexpected lessonor skill that you learned in that job?
Evan (11:59):
I just learned a lot about what it meant to be a photo assistant.
The guy who was studio managingand is still a very good friend
to this day Brett Friedman.
And he had come from movie videoproduction as well, and so he knew
his way around still photographyproduction and movie production.
And so he brought thewhole experience of real.
(12:20):
I don't know what the word is.
It's not like militaristic,but it was definitely,
Be prepared for everything, show upearly, leave things the way you left
it, which is a real philosophy of beingon top of stuff, anticipating, leave no
trace behind, if you are in a location,leave everything where you left it.
As a responsible assistant being early,anticipating what the photographer needs.
(12:44):
And just thinking of amillion things at once.
And that was, that was so much more thanjust reload this film, this camera, or
move that light, or it was really a 360way of looking at a photo set and be ready
to anticipate everything that would go on.
I don't know that I was the bestassistant, but I learned a lot
about that philosophy and tried tointernalize as much of it as I could.
(13:08):
And I certainly met a lot ofassistants along the way, were
very seasoned and embodied that,that philosophy and that approach.
That was eyeopening for me.
I thought as a photo assistant,we'd just be helping out, but it
ends up being so much more than.
It's really all hands on deckand just being aware, spatially
(13:29):
aware and situationallyaware of everything going on.
It's a very respectable andpraiseworthy job because a lot falls
on the shoulders of assistants.
And the ones who are really,really great and have done it for
many, many years, they really,they make those operations glide.
Mica (13:49):
One of the first few times that I assisted, I was the, I was like
below the second assistant, basically.
And the first assistant said,you want to be within ear
earshot, but also out of the way.
So they don't want you aroundwhen they call your name,
(14:10):
you need to be right there.
So don't go any further than that.
And I'm like, what is, wait, sohow, how far away, how many feet?
And they're like, if they can hear you.
That's where you need to be you count howlong it'll take for you to move your body
from there to there as soon as they callyour name oh my God, I'm so paranoid.
What did they call my name?
But I'm in the bathroom, Like, Mica?
(14:31):
It's she's in the bathroom.
Evan (14:34):
Yeah, it's a whole, it's a whole mindset.
It's a whole kind of, yeah, stateof like readiness and preparedness.
I admire the, the, those guys andgirls who can, be doing that for
a long time and not get frazzledand stay cool under pressure.
Mica (14:48):
What did, what did you enjoy about that time?
How long, how long did you assist?
Evan (14:54):
I was at Comstock, I think for about two years ish.
Yeah, about two years.
Yeah.
Year and a half, two years.
It was great.
At that time they were out in Jersey.
They were one of the largest andmost successful stock agencies,
independent stock agencies.
But when I had signed up with them,the whole industry was changing
(15:16):
and so they had downsized a littlebit and they had moved out to
an office in Summit, New Jersey.
Commuting every day back and forth.
And at that time they were regrouping.
So business was a little quieter,but, so for me, it was a good time
actually to be there and learnbecause production wasn't as intense.
It built up.
And so I got to see it ramp up inthe time I was there and eventually
(15:36):
took over as a studio manager.
But but yeah, it was a greatlearning ground for sure.
And Brett really shared alot of knowledge, a lot of
time and really got along.
When you're quote unquote learning withsomeone you really enjoy and you're
having a good time, it feels like work.
Mica (15:51):
Yes.
And if someone if a beginnerphotographer what would be the best way
for them to approach a photographer?
And say, I don't have a lot of experience.
I'm still wet behind the ears,but I would love to assist you.
It is it is a little, I don't want to saya risk when you take on a new assistant,
(16:12):
because you often find yourself in shootswhere this is not the time to teach.
I need you to know what to do,but it's hard because I, I, I
do want to offer opportunitiesto people who reach out to me.
So I'm, I'm interested to hear what,what your opinion would be about
what the best way for a photographerto get assistant experience if
(16:36):
they don't have that experience.
Evan (16:40):
I mean, I would say, first of all, that getting assistant
experience is a great approach.
Having the humility to go in andjust kind of watch and learn from
someone and be open to absorbingwhatever lessons you get from that
experience, I think is really important.
And then exactly what you said, I thinkbeing totally honest and being very
(17:02):
open and just say, Hey, I'm, I am wetbehind the years I do want to learn.
I think it's partly on the photographerto understand where that person,
the assistant is and to decide ifthey're ready to be responsible for,
a large shoot or if they're just asecond assistant position, just there
(17:22):
to do backup and stuff like that.
So I think for the photographer, forthe young aspiring photographer, I
think it's just a matter of be openand approaching people and obviously
having a bit of a, a thick skin or justknow that some people just won't need
your help or, or are too busy to sharetheir time at that particular moment.
Eventually you will find someone whowill take the time and we'll welcome
(17:45):
help and we'll be open to sharing.
So be prepared for somebody elseto not get answered or to even
assist and maybe not have a greattime, but I think eventually you'll
find someone if you keep doing it.
Fishing around you'll find.
Mica (18:00):
Yeah.
What do they say?
The powers in the follow up.
If you don't hear back once, try, try
Evan (18:04):
mean, that's a big part too.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
You never know.
I, I've certainly had people reach outto me and I forget to respond because
whatever it's busy or emails just getburied and and then someone follows up
and then I will, I will pick up that Never
Mica (18:20):
I love it when someone follows up.
I try to answer every single email thatcomes my way, doesn't always happen,
but it does usually in that follow up.
So I love that you assistedand Lord, forgive me if I
ruin this guy's name, Giacomo.
Is that how you say his name?
(18:40):
Giacomo.
Giacomo.
See, it's, it's always the Italian names.
It's always the French namesthat so the life of me.
I cannot pronounce, butLord, I'd try, I'd try.
Giacomo, you assisted him, and it's reallycool that he took you on as an assistant.
(19:04):
What do you remember about theshoots that you worked together?
Evan (19:08):
I remember having a great time with him.
I mean he was, he was a veryfun guy, he is a very fun guy.
I remember traveling a lot withhim, we did, we did shoot a lot
internationally, so Paris was
home base for him, and I was,I had given it my best shot
to go out there and assist.
I was asking around a lot.
I had made a whole list of photographersthat I wanted to approach in Paris when
(19:30):
I, when I got there and had a lot ofmeetings, everyone was super nice but no
one really wanted to hire an American.
We didn't have workingpapers and all of that.
I was about to give up, I'd, I'd hadmany meetings and I thought I wasn't
going to go anywhere, but at leastI'd given it a shot, and then I met
Giacomo and he happened to be lookingfor someone right at that time.
So it was, right at thatlast minute, just worked out.
(19:52):
So that was great.
He traveled a lotinternationally for shoots.
So going to Italy, wherehe's from, Germany, Spain.
We had a great time traveling, butI also remember just, sitting in his
basement and kind of managing his,his archives and organizing that.
And he would make a simple spaghettiand anchovy and lemon dish for lunch.
(20:13):
There's a little cafe by hishouse and we'd sit and have
lunch out and just drink coffee.
It was work, but it wasreally, he enjoyed life.
I really enjoyed how he lived life.
He was a big personality.
He was always on, talking on the phoneto a million people and you things were
always happening around him at first atthat time, I think I got this is crazy.
(20:34):
There's like a swirl ofactivity or what was he doing?
And only now in retrospect, it's likeit was all part of just his life.
I was lucky to witness it in time.
I think I was frustrated by it sometimesbecause it seemed disorganized.
But, yeah, in retrospect, I havea lot of good memories from working
with Giacomo and he's also still afriend today and lives in Milan and
we don't see each other as often, buthe's a very talented photographer.
(20:57):
I've said this before is that we hadso many adventures and the camera was
this passport to experience differentthings and to get you behind the curtain
of a lot of experiences and peoplejust see the front facing side of it.
As a photographer with him, wegot to see behind the scenes of
a lot of amazing experiences.
I always loved traveling and it justmade me feel like, Oh, this is something
(21:19):
that open doors and open up the world.
And you're lucky enough to be able to getthose opportunities and really embrace it.
You can really experiencelife to its fullest.
Mica (21:31):
I like that reference that you know, your camera is it's a passport,
it's the equivalent of a passport.
What was it about Paris that, you lovedso much that you decided this is a place
where I'm going to become a photographer?
Evan (21:46):
Paris has just always held a place in my life since I went to go study there
after college or at the end of college.
I wasn't like enamored ofParis just because of Paris.
I thought it was a beautiful city,of course, but in the course of
studying there, I just met some friendswho are still friends to this day.
Parisian two young Parisian guys who weall became friends and I would go back
(22:09):
every once in a while to see them and.
I just enjoyed the people thatI knew there over the years.
I had more and more people.
I got better at speaking French.
And so that made the cityitself feel more comfortable.
So ultimately I ended up livingthere for that year and a half
that I was working with Giacomo.
And then after that, I continued toreturn every once in a while to hang out
with friends and see what's going on.
(22:31):
And then for a while, I was shootingFashion Week for the Times and for Vogue.
com.
So I'd travel out there twicea year as part of that whole
circuit and catch up with friends.
I'd go check out what was newon the dining scene there.
And then really like in the last, 10years or so, the dining scene really
sort of transformed and jumpstarted.
(22:53):
And, and I've been goinga lot more recently.
And just a really enjoyableplace to spend time.
There's a lot of young talentedchefs doing really great places.
Yeah, every time it's a bit of adiscovery, there's, there's new stuff
happening, the energy is really good.
So yeah, I always feel at home there.
It's nice.
Mica (23:09):
In Eater you said that as a food photographer, I want to segue into
this, you mentioned that your job asa food photographer revolves around
making people feel seen and heard.
What techniques do you use to makechefs feel comfortable and confident
in front of the camera, especially likea short amount of time that you have.
(23:30):
I did a a photo shoot And I, they toldme, you literally, you have 30 minutes.
I'm like, wha, 30 minutes to geta shot of the chef and to get
a couple of shots of the dish.
I'm naturally extroverted.
So it was easier to like, get themout of their skin and everything.
But it, but it is tough.
(23:50):
It is once you pull that cameraout, it, the whole thing changes.
So what what techniques do you use?
Evan (23:56):
I never think of myself as a natural extrovert at all.
Whatever energy I enter intoshoots with, or really most
interactions, what I hear a lot
about back from people is like,Oh, you just seem very calm.
You seem very like unfrazzled
Which sometimes I am from a littleon the inside, but I guess I don't
show it so much on the outside.
Whatever energy I give offin a shoot, it seems to
(24:20):
instill like I nerves.
It's peace or just ease or calm.
I like to shoot to a laptop.
I like to always be tethered.
And, and I think, the work showing thechef, the image as it's happening is
always big because they just don't, theydon't know what it's going to look like.
So once they see it and they, theyfeel confident that it's, it's what
(24:41):
they're looking for, that it looksgood, that they're happy with that.
Then that puts them at ease as well.
I've also been doing this for awhile and the places that I've worked
for, the, the books that I've done,most people are familiar with that.
So that also instillsa kind of confidence.
There's less, breaking down of walls.
I think that has to happen.
Trying to shoot something great in a shortamount of time is not easy, obviously.
(25:06):
And sometimes we all have to putup with that, but anyone in any
situation that says, Oh, you have todo what you do in 30 minutes or less.
It's not going to be the ideal situationfor creativity or to make something great.
You learn to make themost of that situation.
But of course we'd all rather have moretime to get comfortable, to ease into it,
(25:27):
it's not crazy to think Oh, 30 minutesis hardly enough time, but it happens.
Mica (25:31):
You mentioned that you, you go into your, your shoots with this
very calm chill demeanor, energy.
Was that something that just, youknow, that that's intentional or
that's how, that's who you are?
Or was it, looking at how otherphotographers conducted their photo
shoots and going, yeah, I don't wantto, I don't want to bring that to this.
Evan (25:57):
I don't know that I learned it from anyone necessarily.
Giacomo was very chatty andaffable and gregarious and I don't
think that that's me necessarily.
But I don't know.
I think it is my personality.
I don't think I really tryto do anything different.
I, I, I know that peoplehave said that before.
I've been on like cookbook setsbefore where things are going a little
(26:18):
haywire and I feel flustered or I feelinternally okay, how do we fix this?
And then later at the end of thatshoot day and people are like, Oh,
you didn't seem flustered at all.
So I guess, I just have a goodpoker face in that regard.
But yeah, I think it's just yeah,how I am generally speaking.
Mica (26:35):
I love that though because and I'm going to use such an example.
In San Angelo, we had lots of tornadowarnings, hardly ever any tornadoes,
but lots of tornado warnings.
And the first time I experiencedone of the tornado warnings, I
was like in straight up panic.
I was like looking for whateverbuilding, thinking that this was going
(26:59):
to just turn into rubble around me.
I noticed that all of the theatercrew, they were sitting outside
of, So we had a main building.
It was called The Stoop.
They were all sitting outthere just smoking cigarettes.
And I'm like, What are y'all doing?
Get underground.
What's going on?
And they said Dr.
Doll's not freaking.
So if he's not freaking, then we're not.
(27:20):
And I'm like, what does that mean?
Dr.
Doll is the director ofthe whole theater program.
And he grew up in Kansas.
So he knew his tornadoes.
Anytime we had like a tornado warning,he'd step outside, he'd look around, and
he, eh, and then he'd go back inside.
The test was if Dr.
Doll's not running forcover, then we're not running
(27:43):
for cover.
Yeah, it's probably okay.
I don't know if this is true, butI suspected that half of the time
he did it because he knew thathis students were looking at him
and that, he has to remain calm.
So if he's calm, then we will be calmand that's what matters the most.
There's no need to panic.
And so I love that there's all ofthis chaos going around, but the
(28:07):
person that needs to be that center,that, that calm energy is what
keeps everything moving forward.
I would be a little bit more frazzledif the person who's in charge of the
photographer, if they are frazzledand I'm like, okay, they're stressed.
So now I'm stressed and I'm lookingaround to see who else is stressed.
(28:27):
And, and then it's just thisheightened ah, type of thing.
Evan (28:31):
I think that's true, you know, it goes both ways too.
I think that there are otherphotographers who are much bigger
personalities and they create energywhere there isn't a lot of energy and,
and that's an enormous skill also.
We all take pictures, but weall also bring our personalities
to the interaction, to the set,to whatever situation we're in.
(28:52):
Sometimes I think, I wish I was adifferent sort of person who could
create this energized dynamic situation.
And if the vibe is there, I'm happyto roll with that, but I don't
think I'm the kind of photographerwho insights that, generally.
So my sets tend to be prettycalm and pretty efficient and
hopefully creative in that.
Good and fun, but we allhave our personalities.
(29:14):
That also informs, our work and, andhow people think of our work and what
our reputation is and all of that.
The more you do it, the more you justease into the fact that this is the kind
of photographer and kind of person I am.
And that'll vibe with some peopleand not vibe with other people.
And hopefully there's enough workto go around that, you find the
people that you really gel with.
Mica (29:36):
You find your people, you find your people.
So you have been aphotographer for over 10 years.
What keeps you coming back every day?
Evan (29:45):
Every day is different.
Every situation is different.
There are people to meet, there are newproblems to solve new locations to visit.
I've been working around this restaurantindustry, hospitality industry
for as long as I've been shooting.
I didn't really knowanything about it beforehand.
My family was not a bigfood family, necessarily.
(30:06):
We went out for dinners every nowand then, growing up in the city,
but we weren't like steeped in, inseasonal cooking or things like that.
In spending the time I have spent aroundthe industry, I've just developed an
enormous respect and affection for it.
And so every day is an opportunityto meet someone new and, all these
people that I count as friends andacquaintances are people who really move
(30:31):
mountains every day to make sure peoplehave a good time in their restaurants
or their bars and they're, they'regenerally fun and generous people.
It's a crazy pursuit, it'san amazing dedication to, to
do that day in and day out.
I just get a lot of pleasure frombeing able to, in my way, celebrate
that and to work with really talentedchefs is enormously satisfying.
(30:53):
To learn more about food, to learn moreabout restaurants, to learn more about
all of it is really exciting to me.
Every day is an adventure,super cliche, but it's true.
I, I just don't, I don't know what'scoming from day to day necessarily.
And on top of that, to have become goodfriends with so many people through
(31:14):
my work is enormously gratifying andit's led to a really deeply satisfying
network of people here and broad.
Again, my camera, my work is justthis great passport to a life that
feels very fulfilling and very wellrounded and unexpected all the time.
Mica (31:33):
What does your family think about you being a food photographer?
When you became a photographer?
What were their thoughts?
Evan (31:41):
My parents have always been very uh, understanding and, and as have
given me and my two siblings, a lotof space to do whatever we want to do.
So they weren't, it's atypical,I guess, for Asian parents.
They weren't particularly drivingme in one direction or another.
They had questions, when I decided to getinto photography as opposed to academics.
They didn't really, try todissuade me or anything like that.
(32:04):
And then as I went along, I wasvery fortunate and, and to, to
start working with the Timespretty quickly, the New York Times.
And of course, at that point, youknow, as as a New Yorker and parents
who had moved to New York fromTaiwan, they were very proud of that.
And, they continue tobe proud of the work.
I don't think they fully understandwhat their job is, but they're
(32:25):
happy if I have cookbooks to showor pieces get, that get published.
And yeah, they've all beensupportive and they appreciate it.
And, I get to take them outfor dinners sometimes and
they always have a good time.
Mica (32:38):
That's, and that's great that you're, your parents are super supportive.
I tell my brothers and anyone that Iknow of that's a kid that has children,
I'm like, you have no idea how much yoursupport means to your kids when they
have this, dream that's not conventional.
That support will really makea huge difference in where
(32:59):
they go and how far they go.
Evan (33:02):
It was definitely a two way, it was a two way, it was a double edged sword
because growing up, I think my parentswere very open to whatever I wanted to do.
So I think when I got to college, Ididn't really know what I wanted to do.
No one said I should be a doctoror a lawyer or anything like that.
So I, I went in undecidedand it took a while to figure
out, like to find psychology.
Psychology was my majorand I really enjoyed that.
(33:23):
And then along the way, I foundliterature and academics and, but
yeah, there was always this sense ofI could do anything on some level when
you have no barriers or boundaries,it's a little bit disorienting, you
don't really know which way to go.
Back in the day, at that point, Iwas frustrated, I was like, I wish my
parents had some say or some opinionabout where I shouldn't be heading.
But in the end, it gave me thefreedom to find my own path.
(33:46):
Which is a gift for sure.
But,
Mica (33:48):
Being in this industry for the amount of time that you've been.
How have you seen theindustry invol evolve?
Evan (33:56):
It's definitely grown as my career has grown alongside food media, obviously.
There was always Food Magazine,Sweet Wine, and Gourmet, and
all these, and, and Saveur.
But when I started, that was thebeginning of Grub Street, and Eater,
and a lot of these online foodmedia sites that were ready to share
recipes, and stories of restaurants,and chefs, and all this stuff.
(34:18):
So the appetite for, for that kind ofcontent just grew, and grew, and grew.
And it is symbiotic, like obviously nowis the time where TikTok means a lot for
restaurants and pretty TikTok ignorant,people working in restaurants can
afford to be, so they play into that andthey're aware of, of what fans and what's
(34:41):
popular or what's interesting to people.
So since I started and Istarted shooting in 2004.
There've been so many kind of eras.
I, I talk about this with friends.
Different periods restaurantindustry and here's some names.
You're like, Oh, wow.
That's I totally remember thatfrom, the mid 2000s or whatever.
And when I started DavidChang, I just really exploded.
(35:01):
That was such a landmarkperiod in, in New York dining.
And obviously that, anythingthat takes the world in New York
ends up having repercussionseverywhere else in the world.
So that was definitely a time wherethe New York dining scene changed
dramatically and the understandingof what a nice restaurant is versus
a casual restaurant is startingto get very kind of convoluted.
(35:25):
That was exciting, I think.
And then there was the crash
was like, there was a boom offine dining in, in New York.
And then now we're after COVID, it's, thatwas a whole other sort of geological era.
And now we're kind of entering intothis new phase in New York where
things are feeling rejuvenated,and it's very dynamic, very busy.
(35:46):
I think there has been a big emphasison comfort food, like casual comfort
food, but also, I don't know.
I think there's also been an opening fortalented people to do something that's
more personal, which is exciting to see.
And hopefully there'llbe more and more of that.
New York isn't big.
It's a big pond and there's a lot here.
A lot of it is similar and it's nice tosee people doing something that's just
(36:12):
personal, individualized, that kind ofstands out because it's going against
the tide what generally is the mostprofitable or most saleable in the city.
And I see a lot of thathappening now, which is great.
Mica (36:25):
When things really started opening up, I expected this, almost
re renaissance of new restaurants,new everything, because we've
all been, cooped up in our homes.
And I'm happy that itreally has felt like that.
I'm happy that the restaurants thatI love and love very much were able
(36:47):
to stay open during, COVID because itreally, really was a difficult time.
As New York was just hit so hard.
A lot of, people lost their, losttheir lives, lost their jobs.
What got you through that time?
Evan (37:00):
I was lucky enough to be asked by the restaurant organization
Roar to do a fundraiser.
I spent a lot of the, those primeshutdown months organizing this
auction prints that people would go onInstagram and they could order prints
and raise money for the organization.
I was pleasantly surprised, butraise around 9, 000 dollars.
So that was great.
(37:22):
And then, in many ways, youjust, you were just there trying
to survive this unknown thing.
So work took a backseat.
I didn't sleep that much reallyduring that time, but enjoyed
time with my then partner.
And it was a very kind ofobviously scary and unsettling
time, but in other ways, peaceful.
(37:42):
And you just were living inthis very quiet moment, which
in some ways was refreshing.
That's weird to say, I know, but Ina place like New York where things
really slow don't really slow down somuch, it was an interesting period.
Restaurant industry people were notdeterred and they were determined
to keep their business going and dotakeout and do all of these things.
(38:06):
And at a certain point I got bored andI reached out to Alex Stupak who has
the Empale restaurants here in the city.
And I know he was trying to get histakeout business going just to be
able survive and pay employees andkeep things going, which is admirable.
And I said, Hey, I'm, I, I boredto death and you're doing these
efforts to get, take out going.
(38:26):
So we've shot before in the past.
I shot his cookbook and we shotfor his restaurants before.
And I said let's just, cause Iwant to be busy and you can use
the images for marketing and topromote all the efforts and we'll
just do it as a friendly exchange.
And I did some of that, with peoplethat I, that I trusted, that I knew
that I had working relationships with.
(38:47):
Eventually restaurants startedto get more and more busy.
2020 ended up being, I mean, I shot threecookbooks in that at the end of that year.
Was very slow for most of that year.
By the end it was, I was lucky and itpicked up and it was obviously very
different, but, but there was work andpeople were doing things and in spite
of the situation people made it work.
Mica (39:08):
That's so awesome.
That's cool that you did three cook.
That's impressive.
I can only sit around for so long.
I actually got into baking during thattime and I went and bought all the stuff
to make bread, the knives, the baskets.
And, and then I watched avideo on, sourdough starter
and I'm like, nah, that's.
I think I'm just goingto keep watching people.
(39:30):
You mentioned earlier about how youfound photography to be therapeutic and
and you mentioned just now about how NewYork, during that time, it slowed down.
Was photography that same therapeuticthat you felt then that you, you
know, that got you through 2020?
Evan (39:52):
I actually would say not really, I think for a lot of that shutdown
period, I really did have my camera away.
I don't know why particularly.
I, I think I'm quite busy with workand so I don't mind having the occasion
to not have to rely on my camera.
Yeah, it was, it was a peculiar time.
(40:13):
There was a lot of social unrest.
There was yeah, people were veryill at ease in the city and some
ways it was just existing and then.
Finding the pleasure in existing wasliving with my then partner at the time.
And so yeah, I, I, when, when it cametime to work again, then of course I
was pleased to be able to work again,but I've never been someone to really,
(40:35):
it's been a while since I like turnedmy camera as a source of therapy.
I was trying to, stay fit and, andthese days like exercise and travel
for sure, or, or the things I reallygoing to museums are the things that
really refresh me and restore me.
I'm always happy to be shooting andalways happy to have work and and
I'm fortunate that it, it, it comes.
Always lucky enough to have that as aconstant, but when it's not required,
(41:00):
I'm, I'm just happy to be in the world.
Of course, I go out and I dine and Itake crappy iPhone photos of whatever I'm
eating, like anyone else, but that's morefor souvenir's sake than anything else.
Mica (41:14):
I, I nothiced that, especially, in the last year and half that I
stopped taking my work camera withme and I'm just happy with my iPhone.
When I go out to eat, I'm like,okay, I don't need to walk away
with this magnificent masterpiece.
I guess I'm getting better at being ableto separate moments where these are just
(41:37):
for me versus moments for everyone else.
What do you do when you need toseek out moments for yourself?
Evan (41:46):
I do end up putting a lot of wherever, when I go out to eat
with friends, a lot of that stuffends up as stories on Instagram.
It's a nice way to share that.
And also, give shout out to placesthat I enjoy frequenting and or,
someplace new that I've discovered.
I, I do like Instagram.
It's a great tool in many ways.
And I usually reserve thegrid for work related stuff.
(42:07):
And then stories isjust my day to day life.
Like a glimpse inside of that.
And I find it pretty fun and funny andI don't really take it super seriously.
Yeah, stories are just this littlevisual diary and, you know, look,
I, I am a photographer, so I knowthat when I take a picture, that's
a bad, ugly, stupid picture.
I know that it's a bad, ugly,stupid picture and I'm fine with it.
(42:29):
I'm not trying to, to,
I think that's
to be like a full on influencer.
I think there's a lot of pressureto always be generating content
and always be concerned aboutevery photo being, totally perfect.
I embrace the fact that I'm mostlyjust out there having a good time
and happy to show that I'm awesome inwhatever way, but then yeah, on the
grid, is where I put the stuff thatI, I consider like more cultural work.
Mica (42:51):
They told us in school to treat your feed almost like a
secondary portfolio of your website.
Evan (43:00):
I love that idea that someone was talking to you about Instagram at
school, but that was like, part of yourcurriculum was to learn about Instagram.
Mica (43:06):
I will say this though.
He had no business teaching usabout Instagram because we were
teaching him more about Instagram.
So I have two more questions for you.
We have talked a little about,food photography, how you
approach your photo shoots.
So my question is, what do youthink sets apart memorable food
photography from food every day?
Evan (43:29):
Anything that sort of unexpected is always fun.
Just whether it's a pop color orsome energy in it that unexpected.
Obviously that makes it stand out.
great lighting is as photographersomething that always resonates,
especially when there's a niceplay of highlights and shadows.
(43:50):
And then, I think story just a senseof place and a sense of personality,
a sense of what's going on behindthat dish is a big part of it.
There's so many different kindsof great photography in general.
Something very simple and pristine canbe very striking and something very
heavily propped and very messy canalso, create a sensation in the viewer.
(44:16):
I guess what you really want is to feelstirred by something, whether, it gets
your taste buds salivating, or you justfeel like you're transported into a place.
For a moment those are the ones that Ithink are the most emotionally successful.
Emotionally successful.
Yeah, the ones that make you reallyfeel something that you can't even
(44:37):
quite identify, whether it's liketransports you to a certain time of day
or a certain place or a certain mood.
Mica (44:43):
How long into your career before you felt like you were
creating standout, memorable images?
Evan (44:53):
I think everyone is capable of taking great photos, you know what?
It's partially just beingaware and being present.
I think being a professional is havingto do that on command all the time.
But I do think everyone, especially thesedays with the phone, getting everyone's
capable of taking really spectacularphotos, at least one or two every once in
(45:14):
a while, I hadn't really done it before.
So being asked to go to restaurantsand shoot these beautiful dishes.
It was a lot of fun.
And so I was super pleased with a lotof the stuff I did, it was all new to
me, so it felt very fresh and I'm sureit wasn't that groundbreaking at the
time, but, it excited me, so even atthe beginning, it was enough to fuel
(45:35):
me and say like, I really liked howthat looked and I can't wait to, to
try a different dish or a differentrecipe and see what that looks like.
After a while you start to feel likeyou're In a rut or like you plateaued
or you're doing the same thing.
And I always say that there wasa moment where I saw the Alinea
cookbook and that really jumpstarteda different understanding of what
(45:56):
food photography could be, it was muchmore artistic, much more visual and
graphic and sculptural and dramatic.
And that kind of set me off on adirection of working with chefs who really
played it in that very graphic style.
Whereas before I was doing somethingthat was much softer, much more lifestyle
oriented natural light, that was somethingthat inspired a different approach.
Mica (46:22):
I love that.
You mentioned earlier just now about how,you know, you didn't know if the images
you were creating were spectacular,but they felt good to you and, you
wanted to recreate that over and over.
I want to close out today's interviewwith a new photographer came to you
today and said, Hey, I'm starting out.
(46:42):
This is my, my new gig, my new life.
What's one skill that they shouldlearn now that will benefit
them throughout their career?
Evan (46:52):
I just always say that I think to be successful at anything, it just
requires being professional, honestly.
Like you spend your wholecareer practicing your craft
and trying to get better or tryto adjust, address challenges.
And you feel like, you're weakerin one area and you're trying
(47:13):
to get better in that area.
Yeah.
So that's the kind of day by day,lifelong quest, but the skill that I
think really puts you ahead and keepgenerating work and keep clients coming
back is just to be, kind and communicativeand responsible and answer emails
(47:36):
relatively promptly and show up on time.
And know, all these kinds oflife things that I think make
people feel like, Oh, you take.
You take everything you do seriously,not just photography, but like really
everything, how you enter a space, howyou leave a space, how you do business.
(47:58):
Those are the thingsthat no one teaches you.
And you can learn a lot of theseother technical things, but I
don't think you're a hot mess.
But if someone were genuinelya hot mess then they need to
learn to not be such a hot mess.
That'll, that'll just get in their way.
I, I have every belief that theyare passionate about photography
and want to succeed or wantto create beautiful images.
(48:21):
But if you can't keep things together andcan't keep things moving forward, then
you're just getting in the wrong way.
So to me, that's always been the mostvaluable thing, honestly, in any field.
I think.
Yeah, being, being the best is not,it's only going to get you so far.
Mica (48:38):
Gosh, I could listen to that forever and ever.
I know that you've got to run.
I really appreciate you being on the show.
Evan (48:47):
Yeah, no, thank you for having me.
It's great to chat with you.
No, thank you.
I'm sorry that I do have to run, but no,it was a really good conversation and I'm
really glad to have met you and yeah, it'salways nice to talk about this industry.
Mica (48:59):
Where can the listeners find you and follow you if they're not already?
They should be.
Evan (49:04):
The easiest is on my Instagram.
It's Evan Sung.
N-Y-C-E-B-A-N-S-U-N-G-N-Y-C.
Or www.
evansung.com, for my website, whichdefinitely needs to be revisited.
I need to work on that, but yeah.
Mica (49:19):
Thank you so much for being on the show.
Evan (49:22):
Thank you.
Take care.
Talk soon.
Welcome to the 46th episode of The Savory Shot.
A podcast about the art and soulof working in food photography.
Y'all know who I'll be.
I'm your host with the most, Mica McCook.
I am a food photographerbased out of Austin, Texas.
(00:22):
I want to start this par-tayoff by thanking y'all, the
listeners, for showing up, y'all,I can't do this show without you.
So whether it's your first time,your 46th time, your bazillionth
time, it doesn't matter.
Thank you so much forlistening, for showing up.
But let's talk abouttoday's episode y'all.
(00:43):
Have you ever felt like you're on atreadmill in your current job and you're
dreaming about pursuing your passionin photography, but you are terrified
by the uncertainty of a career change.
You're not alone in your struggle.
First and foremost, imagine wakingup every day, knowing you're
(01:07):
about to do something you love.
Imagine being surrounded by people whoare in careers they absolutely love.
And then imagine feeling thecomplete opposite of that.
Y'all, there is no worse feelingthan being in a room full of people
who are doing exactly what theywant to be doing and you're not.
You want to pursue photographyfull time, but it's a big leap.
(01:28):
Moving from a traditional job intothe arts, especially in today's world.
Sure, the journey is filled withenriching, transformative experiences,
personal growth, blah, blah, blah.
Everything that those coaches tell you.
But ultimately, it's still a risk.
The fear of the unknown is real.
(01:49):
It's scary to step away from a securepaycheck and jump into something as
subjective and fluctuating as photography.
And I get it.
Y'all I truly do get it.
I myself have been throughseveral career changes.
I originally went to college tobecome a theater arts teacher.
I realized three years into my educationthat my heart just wasn't in it.
(02:12):
I dropped out of college and I hoppedaround from job to job for nearly
10 years before I found photography,but even then I was only able to
pursue this goal, this dream of mine,because my husband supported me.
So I was able to take thatrisk, but that's not everybody.
Some of y'all have bills to pay.
(02:34):
You have kids depending on you.
You are the breadwinner.
It's a lot.
It's a big risk, which is why I'mexcited to talk about today's episode.
Joining us is Evan Sung, a renownedfood photographer based in New
York, who also made a career change.
Evan has captured everything,stunning culinary stories from across
(02:57):
the globe and his work has gracedthe pages of major publications.
Y'all, he has photographedover 40 cookbooks.
What?
He's collaborated with the topchefs in the culinary world.
And fun fact, he found his firstphotography job through a Craigslist ad.
I think that's really cool.
(03:18):
Today Evan will share his inspiring story.
Practical advice for those contemplatinga shift toward a career behind the lens.
Y'all, this episode is so meaty.
I know some of y'all willrelate to a lot of the things
that Evan says and talks about.
Hearing him talk about photography andthe energy he brings to his shoot, how he
(03:42):
builds rapport with chefs is just a teenytiny small bit of what we talked about.
We'll I won't waste any more time.
We're going to get into this.
But before we do grab yourcoffee, grab your tea.
If it's five o'clock somewhere whereyou're at, grab a cocktail and a glass of
wine, get comfy and let's start the show.
(05:07):
Evan, I am so excited that you are here.
This is just.
Starting off to be a banging dayand we're in for good conversation.
And I just really want to thank youfor coming on the show and being here.
Evan (05:23):
Thank you for having me.
No, it's great to be talking with you.
Mica (05:27):
Yes, Yes.
I really, I want to dive right in.
I've got a lot of meat andpotato questions to ask.
So if you're ready, Iam going to get right.
Evan (05:37):
Let's go.
Mica (05:38):
Awesome.
Awesome.
When I was doing my research on youand listening to past episodes that you
interviewed on and I heard about yourstory about moving to Los Angeles and
then realizing this isn't really for me.
I have to find my way.
That resonated so much with me becausethat's my experience, except with theater.
I was in theater all in middleschool, all through high school.
(06:01):
I went through college and a yearbefore I was supposed to graduate,
realizing I didn't want to teach.
And I just dropped out and myfamily was like, what are you doing?
You're almost
done.
Evan (06:12):
or you were gonna
Mica (06:13):
theater?
Yeah.
I was going to teacha high school theater.
And I did a, in not an internship, butI did like a shadow day behind a theater
arts teacher and home girl looks stressed.
And I'm like, I really don't want that.
I don't want that for my life.
But leaving that was really conflictingbecause my whole identity was wrapped in
(06:36):
theater and who am I outside of theater?
So listening to your storythat really touched my heart.
What I wanna know from you is lookingback at that experience, what did you
see then that you couldn't see now?
Evan (06:51):
Just that feeling that things will work out, things will be okay.
I didn't have a deep connection withphotography when I made that decision.
It was a recent hobby that I hadstarted to play with and explore.
And when I was in California, I wasin Irvine not LA, but hour and a
half south in Southern California.
I just felt very displacedon realizing that.
(07:13):
That graduate program wasn't whatI wanted, even though for a long
time, I thought it was that was alldisorienting and photography at that
point was like art therapy for me.
It was a place where I couldexplore my feelings and channel
them into something else.
It was not a given that going intophotography at that point would work out.
(07:33):
I didn't know anythingabout the business of it.
and it really wasn't somethingI'd ever thought about before.
It was really just this kind of
Mica (07:41):
be
Evan (07:43):
if I'm not doing this graduate program, what, who am I, what do I do?
And I always say moving back to New Yorkas a New Yorker is a complicated thing.
A lot of people moving to NewYork is a place to start something
new and begin an adventure.
But for me, I was born in NewYork, raised in Manhattan.
So coming back to Manhattan felta little bit like defeat and a
(08:04):
little bit like, moving backwards.
So I had to figure out what Ican do to make it not feel like
a backwards step to move forward.
There was never any sensethat it would work out.
Whether it worked out or not, I thinkthere's always just this journey and trust
that you make good decisions and, payattention to what's going on around you.
In the moment it's easier to feel alittle bit panic and a little bit unsure.
(08:27):
If your head's in the right place andyou're just concentrating on forward
motion things will things will happen.
Mica (08:33):
That is such a hard thing to know and believe.
When you made that decision, you're like,okay, this graduate program isn't for me.
I am leaving this moment.
What were you feeling in thatmoment when you made that decision?
Evan (08:50):
I just knew, I think I gave it every shot I could to make sure
I wasn't making a rash decisionand leaving that graduate program.
I was very excited to have gotten intoit and it's a very esteemed program.
It was a comparative literatureprogram at UC Irvine.
So I was thrilled, Iwas thrilled to get in.
And it was just life circumstances thatmade it clear that it wasn't really
(09:13):
going to be the right path for me.
Like I said, there was apprehension, therewas fear, there was a sense of, when you
think you know what you're doing and thenyou realize that maybe you got it wrong.
That's an unsettling feeling.
So it was all bound up in apprehension,and also just holding my nose and
closing my eyes and jumping inand seeing where this would go.
(09:34):
I was lucky, of course,seeing my family's here.
So I wasn't going to New York without anyresources or any backup or any network.
It still felt like starting overagain and, and my understanding
of who I was supposed to be.
Mica (09:50):
Oh, absolutely.
I tell a lot of people is that thechoices you make, the decisions you
make, it's really no one's business.
If it's right for you, thenmove forward and trust yourself.
And a lot of photographers don'tknow how to trust themselves.
In whatever decision making, they'reseeking so many outside sources
(10:11):
of someone telling them, here'sthe map, here's what to do, rather
than trusting their own instincts.
Evan (10:17):
It comes from time and experience too.
You have to make some mistakes and thenrealize that some instincts you have
aren't good and some instincts have aregood and you learn to sort through them.
I would be mistrustful of anyone whenyou knew right off the bat that every
decision they made was the right decision.
There's always a little bit of roomfor doubt and uncertainty, that's
obviously just the path of learning.
(10:39):
You make some choices and you realize,oh, that wasn't the right one, but you
recalculate your path and then figureout what to do differently next time.
Mica (10:47):
For sure.
For sure.
There's, there's, there'sno finality and mistakes.
You can try it again and try it again.
You mentioned that you got your firstphotography job through Craigslist,
which I miss Craigslist, no offenseto Facebook Marketplace, but I
furnished my first apartment with
Evan (11:07):
Yeah.
Mica (11:09):
had the free section, I used to call it Craiglistin'.
Evan (11:12):
Back in the day, it was amazing.
Not only did it get me my job,when I moved back to New York and
I wanted to start shooting formyself, that was a big part of the
my formation was photographing.
I decided to photograph artistsin their studios and all those
artists I found through Craigslist.
I just put up listings on Craigslist andpeople reached out and I look at their
(11:32):
work, but all those connections happenedthrough Craigslist back in the day.
Mica (11:36):
Shout out to Craigslist, I hope you're not full of spam anymore.
We miss you.
We miss you so much.
You mentioned that in this firstjob that it was through Comstock.
What was the most unexpected lessonor skill that you learned in that job?
Evan (11:59):
I just learned a lot about what it meant to be a photo assistant.
The guy who was studio managingand is still a very good friend
to this day Brett Friedman.
And he had come from movie videoproduction as well, and so he knew
his way around still photographyproduction and movie production.
And so he brought thewhole experience of real.
(12:20):
I don't know what the word is.
It's not like militaristic,but it was definitely,
Be prepared for everything, show upearly, leave things the way you left
it, which is a real philosophy of beingon top of stuff, anticipating, leave no
trace behind, if you are in a location,leave everything where you left it.
As a responsible assistant being early,anticipating what the photographer needs.
(12:44):
And just thinking of amillion things at once.
And that was, that was so much more thanjust reload this film, this camera, or
move that light, or it was really a 360way of looking at a photo set and be ready
to anticipate everything that would go on.
I don't know that I was the bestassistant, but I learned a lot
about that philosophy and tried tointernalize as much of it as I could.
(13:08):
And I certainly met a lot ofassistants along the way, were
very seasoned and embodied that,that philosophy and that approach.
That was eyeopening for me.
I thought as a photo assistant,we'd just be helping out, but it
ends up being so much more than.
It's really all hands on deckand just being aware, spatially
(13:29):
aware and situationallyaware of everything going on.
It's a very respectable andpraiseworthy job because a lot falls
on the shoulders of assistants.
And the ones who are really,really great and have done it for
many, many years, they really,they make those operations glide.
Mica (13:49):
One of the first few times that I assisted, I was the, I was like
below the second assistant, basically.
And the first assistant said,you want to be within ear
earshot, but also out of the way.
So they don't want you aroundwhen they call your name,
(14:10):
you need to be right there.
So don't go any further than that.
And I'm like, what is, wait, sohow, how far away, how many feet?
And they're like, if they can hear you.
That's where you need to be you count howlong it'll take for you to move your body
from there to there as soon as they callyour name oh my God, I'm so paranoid.
What did they call my name?
But I'm in the bathroom, Like, Mica?
(14:31):
It's she's in the bathroom.
Evan (14:34):
Yeah, it's a whole, it's a whole mindset.
It's a whole kind of, yeah, stateof like readiness and preparedness.
I admire the, the, those guys andgirls who can, be doing that for
a long time and not get frazzledand stay cool under pressure.
Mica (14:48):
What did, what did you enjoy about that time?
How long, how long did you assist?
Evan (14:54):
I was at Comstock, I think for about two years ish.
Yeah, about two years.
Yeah.
Year and a half, two years.
It was great.
At that time they were out in Jersey.
They were one of the largest andmost successful stock agencies,
independent stock agencies.
But when I had signed up with them,the whole industry was changing
(15:16):
and so they had downsized a littlebit and they had moved out to
an office in Summit, New Jersey.
Commuting every day back and forth.
And at that time they were regrouping.
So business was a little quieter,but, so for me, it was a good time
actually to be there and learnbecause production wasn't as intense.
It built up.
And so I got to see it ramp up inthe time I was there and eventually
(15:36):
took over as a studio manager.
But but yeah, it was a greatlearning ground for sure.
And Brett really shared alot of knowledge, a lot of
time and really got along.
When you're quote unquote learning withsomeone you really enjoy and you're
having a good time, it feels like work.
Mica (15:51):
Yes.
And if someone if a beginnerphotographer what would be the best way
for them to approach a photographer?
And say, I don't have a lot of experience.
I'm still wet behind the ears,but I would love to assist you.
It is it is a little, I don't want to saya risk when you take on a new assistant,
(16:12):
because you often find yourself in shootswhere this is not the time to teach.
I need you to know what to do,but it's hard because I, I, I
do want to offer opportunitiesto people who reach out to me.
So I'm, I'm interested to hear what,what your opinion would be about
what the best way for a photographerto get assistant experience if
(16:36):
they don't have that experience.
Evan (16:40):
I mean, I would say, first of all, that getting assistant
experience is a great approach.
Having the humility to go in andjust kind of watch and learn from
someone and be open to absorbingwhatever lessons you get from that
experience, I think is really important.
And then exactly what you said, I thinkbeing totally honest and being very
(17:02):
open and just say, Hey, I'm, I am wetbehind the years I do want to learn.
I think it's partly on the photographerto understand where that person,
the assistant is and to decide ifthey're ready to be responsible for,
a large shoot or if they're just asecond assistant position, just there
(17:22):
to do backup and stuff like that.
So I think for the photographer, forthe young aspiring photographer, I
think it's just a matter of be openand approaching people and obviously
having a bit of a, a thick skin or justknow that some people just won't need
your help or, or are too busy to sharetheir time at that particular moment.
Eventually you will find someone whowill take the time and we'll welcome
(17:45):
help and we'll be open to sharing.
So be prepared for somebody elseto not get answered or to even
assist and maybe not have a greattime, but I think eventually you'll
find someone if you keep doing it.
Fishing around you'll find.
Mica (18:00):
Yeah.
What do they say?
The powers in the follow up.
If you don't hear back once, try, try
Evan (18:04):
mean, that's a big part too.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
You never know.
I, I've certainly had people reach outto me and I forget to respond because
whatever it's busy or emails just getburied and and then someone follows up
and then I will, I will pick up that Never
Mica (18:20):
I love it when someone follows up.
I try to answer every single email thatcomes my way, doesn't always happen,
but it does usually in that follow up.
So I love that you assistedand Lord, forgive me if I
ruin this guy's name, Giacomo.
Is that how you say his name?
(18:40):
Giacomo.
Giacomo.
See, it's, it's always the Italian names.
It's always the French namesthat so the life of me.
I cannot pronounce, butLord, I'd try, I'd try.
Giacomo, you assisted him, and it's reallycool that he took you on as an assistant.
(19:04):
What do you remember about theshoots that you worked together?
Evan (19:08):
I remember having a great time with him.
I mean he was, he was a veryfun guy, he is a very fun guy.
I remember traveling a lot withhim, we did, we did shoot a lot
internationally, so Paris was
home base for him, and I was,I had given it my best shot
to go out there and assist.
I was asking around a lot.
I had made a whole list of photographersthat I wanted to approach in Paris when
(19:30):
I, when I got there and had a lot ofmeetings, everyone was super nice but no
one really wanted to hire an American.
We didn't have workingpapers and all of that.
I was about to give up, I'd, I'd hadmany meetings and I thought I wasn't
going to go anywhere, but at leastI'd given it a shot, and then I met
Giacomo and he happened to be lookingfor someone right at that time.
So it was, right at thatlast minute, just worked out.
(19:52):
So that was great.
He traveled a lotinternationally for shoots.
So going to Italy, wherehe's from, Germany, Spain.
We had a great time traveling, butI also remember just, sitting in his
basement and kind of managing his,his archives and organizing that.
And he would make a simple spaghettiand anchovy and lemon dish for lunch.
(20:13):
There's a little cafe by hishouse and we'd sit and have
lunch out and just drink coffee.
It was work, but it wasreally, he enjoyed life.
I really enjoyed how he lived life.
He was a big personality.
He was always on, talking on the phoneto a million people and you things were
always happening around him at first atthat time, I think I got this is crazy.
(20:34):
There's like a swirl ofactivity or what was he doing?
And only now in retrospect, it's likeit was all part of just his life.
I was lucky to witness it in time.
I think I was frustrated by it sometimesbecause it seemed disorganized.
But, yeah, in retrospect, I havea lot of good memories from working
with Giacomo and he's also still afriend today and lives in Milan and
we don't see each other as often, buthe's a very talented photographer.
(20:57):
I've said this before is that we hadso many adventures and the camera was
this passport to experience differentthings and to get you behind the curtain
of a lot of experiences and peoplejust see the front facing side of it.
As a photographer with him, wegot to see behind the scenes of
a lot of amazing experiences.
I always loved traveling and it justmade me feel like, Oh, this is something
(21:19):
that open doors and open up the world.
And you're lucky enough to be able to getthose opportunities and really embrace it.
You can really experiencelife to its fullest.
Mica (21:31):
I like that reference that you know, your camera is it's a passport,
it's the equivalent of a passport.
What was it about Paris that, you lovedso much that you decided this is a place
where I'm going to become a photographer?
Evan (21:46):
Paris has just always held a place in my life since I went to go study there
after college or at the end of college.
I wasn't like enamored ofParis just because of Paris.
I thought it was a beautiful city,of course, but in the course of
studying there, I just met some friendswho are still friends to this day.
Parisian two young Parisian guys who weall became friends and I would go back
(22:09):
every once in a while to see them and.
I just enjoyed the people thatI knew there over the years.
I had more and more people.
I got better at speaking French.
And so that made the cityitself feel more comfortable.
So ultimately I ended up livingthere for that year and a half
that I was working with Giacomo.
And then after that, I continued toreturn every once in a while to hang out
with friends and see what's going on.
(22:31):
And then for a while, I was shootingFashion Week for the Times and for Vogue.
com.
So I'd travel out there twicea year as part of that whole
circuit and catch up with friends.
I'd go check out what was newon the dining scene there.
And then really like in the last, 10years or so, the dining scene really
sort of transformed and jumpstarted.
(22:53):
And, and I've been goinga lot more recently.
And just a really enjoyableplace to spend time.
There's a lot of young talentedchefs doing really great places.
Yeah, every time it's a bit of adiscovery, there's, there's new stuff
happening, the energy is really good.
So yeah, I always feel at home there.
It's nice.
Mica (23:09):
In Eater you said that as a food photographer, I want to segue into
this, you mentioned that your job asa food photographer revolves around
making people feel seen and heard.
What techniques do you use to makechefs feel comfortable and confident
in front of the camera, especially likea short amount of time that you have.
(23:30):
I did a a photo shoot And I, they toldme, you literally, you have 30 minutes.
I'm like, wha, 30 minutes to geta shot of the chef and to get
a couple of shots of the dish.
I'm naturally extroverted.
So it was easier to like, get themout of their skin and everything.
But it, but it is tough.
(23:50):
It is once you pull that cameraout, it, the whole thing changes.
So what what techniques do you use?
Evan (23:56):
I never think of myself as a natural extrovert at all.
Whatever energy I enter intoshoots with, or really most
interactions, what I hear a lot
about back from people is like,Oh, you just seem very calm.
You seem very like unfrazzled
Which sometimes I am from a littleon the inside, but I guess I don't
show it so much on the outside.
Whatever energy I give offin a shoot, it seems to
(24:20):
instill like I nerves.
It's peace or just ease or calm.
I like to shoot to a laptop.
I like to always be tethered.
And, and I think, the work showing thechef, the image as it's happening is
always big because they just don't, theydon't know what it's going to look like.
So once they see it and they, theyfeel confident that it's, it's what
(24:41):
they're looking for, that it looksgood, that they're happy with that.
Then that puts them at ease as well.
I've also been doing this for awhile and the places that I've worked
for, the, the books that I've done,most people are familiar with that.
So that also instillsa kind of confidence.
There's less, breaking down of walls.
I think that has to happen.
Trying to shoot something great in a shortamount of time is not easy, obviously.
(25:06):
And sometimes we all have to putup with that, but anyone in any
situation that says, Oh, you have todo what you do in 30 minutes or less.
It's not going to be the ideal situationfor creativity or to make something great.
You learn to make themost of that situation.
But of course we'd all rather have moretime to get comfortable, to ease into it,
(25:27):
it's not crazy to think Oh, 30 minutesis hardly enough time, but it happens.
Mica (25:31):
You mentioned that you, you go into your, your shoots with this
very calm chill demeanor, energy.
Was that something that just, youknow, that that's intentional or
that's how, that's who you are?
Or was it, looking at how otherphotographers conducted their photo
shoots and going, yeah, I don't wantto, I don't want to bring that to this.
Evan (25:57):
I don't know that I learned it from anyone necessarily.
Giacomo was very chatty andaffable and gregarious and I don't
think that that's me necessarily.
But I don't know.
I think it is my personality.
I don't think I really tryto do anything different.
I, I, I know that peoplehave said that before.
I've been on like cookbook setsbefore where things are going a little
(26:18):
haywire and I feel flustered or I feelinternally okay, how do we fix this?
And then later at the end of thatshoot day and people are like, Oh,
you didn't seem flustered at all.
So I guess, I just have a goodpoker face in that regard.
But yeah, I think it's just yeah,how I am generally speaking.
Mica (26:35):
I love that though because and I'm going to use such an example.
In San Angelo, we had lots of tornadowarnings, hardly ever any tornadoes,
but lots of tornado warnings.
And the first time I experiencedone of the tornado warnings, I
was like in straight up panic.
I was like looking for whateverbuilding, thinking that this was going
(26:59):
to just turn into rubble around me.
I noticed that all of the theatercrew, they were sitting outside
of, So we had a main building.
It was called The Stoop.
They were all sitting outthere just smoking cigarettes.
And I'm like, What are y'all doing?
Get underground.
What's going on?
And they said Dr.
Doll's not freaking.
So if he's not freaking, then we're not.
(27:20):
And I'm like, what does that mean?
Dr.
Doll is the director ofthe whole theater program.
And he grew up in Kansas.
So he knew his tornadoes.
Anytime we had like a tornado warning,he'd step outside, he'd look around, and
he, eh, and then he'd go back inside.
The test was if Dr.
Doll's not running forcover, then we're not running
(27:43):
for cover.
Yeah, it's probably okay.
I don't know if this is true, butI suspected that half of the time
he did it because he knew thathis students were looking at him
and that, he has to remain calm.
So if he's calm, then we will be calmand that's what matters the most.
There's no need to panic.
And so I love that there's all ofthis chaos going around, but the
(28:07):
person that needs to be that center,that, that calm energy is what
keeps everything moving forward.
I would be a little bit more frazzledif the person who's in charge of the
photographer, if they are frazzledand I'm like, okay, they're stressed.
So now I'm stressed and I'm lookingaround to see who else is stressed.
(28:27):
And, and then it's just thisheightened ah, type of thing.
Evan (28:31):
I think that's true, you know, it goes both ways too.
I think that there are otherphotographers who are much bigger
personalities and they create energywhere there isn't a lot of energy and,
and that's an enormous skill also.
We all take pictures, but weall also bring our personalities
to the interaction, to the set,to whatever situation we're in.
(28:52):
Sometimes I think, I wish I was adifferent sort of person who could
create this energized dynamic situation.
And if the vibe is there, I'm happyto roll with that, but I don't
think I'm the kind of photographerwho insights that, generally.
So my sets tend to be prettycalm and pretty efficient and
hopefully creative in that.
Good and fun, but we allhave our personalities.
(29:14):
That also informs, our work and, andhow people think of our work and what
our reputation is and all of that.
The more you do it, the more you justease into the fact that this is the kind
of photographer and kind of person I am.
And that'll vibe with some peopleand not vibe with other people.
And hopefully there's enough workto go around that, you find the
people that you really gel with.
Mica (29:36):
You find your people, you find your people.
So you have been aphotographer for over 10 years.
What keeps you coming back every day?
Evan (29:45):
Every day is different.
Every situation is different.
There are people to meet, there are newproblems to solve new locations to visit.
I've been working around this restaurantindustry, hospitality industry
for as long as I've been shooting.
I didn't really knowanything about it beforehand.
My family was not a bigfood family, necessarily.
(30:06):
We went out for dinners every nowand then, growing up in the city,
but we weren't like steeped in, inseasonal cooking or things like that.
In spending the time I have spent aroundthe industry, I've just developed an
enormous respect and affection for it.
And so every day is an opportunityto meet someone new and, all these
people that I count as friends andacquaintances are people who really move
(30:31):
mountains every day to make sure peoplehave a good time in their restaurants
or their bars and they're, they'regenerally fun and generous people.
It's a crazy pursuit, it'san amazing dedication to, to
do that day in and day out.
I just get a lot of pleasure frombeing able to, in my way, celebrate
that and to work with really talentedchefs is enormously satisfying.
(30:53):
To learn more about food, to learn moreabout restaurants, to learn more about
all of it is really exciting to me.
Every day is an adventure,super cliche, but it's true.
I, I just don't, I don't know what'scoming from day to day necessarily.
And on top of that, to have become goodfriends with so many people through
(31:14):
my work is enormously gratifying andit's led to a really deeply satisfying
network of people here and broad.
Again, my camera, my work is justthis great passport to a life that
feels very fulfilling and very wellrounded and unexpected all the time.
Mica (31:33):
What does your family think about you being a food photographer?
When you became a photographer?
What were their thoughts?
Evan (31:41):
My parents have always been very uh, understanding and, and as have
given me and my two siblings, a lotof space to do whatever we want to do.
So they weren't, it's atypical,I guess, for Asian parents.
They weren't particularly drivingme in one direction or another.
They had questions, when I decided to getinto photography as opposed to academics.
They didn't really, try todissuade me or anything like that.
(32:04):
And then as I went along, I wasvery fortunate and, and to, to
start working with the Timespretty quickly, the New York Times.
And of course, at that point, youknow, as as a New Yorker and parents
who had moved to New York fromTaiwan, they were very proud of that.
And, they continue tobe proud of the work.
I don't think they fully understandwhat their job is, but they're
(32:25):
happy if I have cookbooks to showor pieces get, that get published.
And yeah, they've all beensupportive and they appreciate it.
And, I get to take them outfor dinners sometimes and
they always have a good time.
Mica (32:38):
That's, and that's great that you're, your parents are super supportive.
I tell my brothers and anyone that Iknow of that's a kid that has children,
I'm like, you have no idea how much yoursupport means to your kids when they
have this, dream that's not conventional.
That support will really makea huge difference in where
(32:59):
they go and how far they go.
Evan (33:02):
It was definitely a two way, it was a two way, it was a double edged sword
because growing up, I think my parentswere very open to whatever I wanted to do.
So I think when I got to college, Ididn't really know what I wanted to do.
No one said I should be a doctoror a lawyer or anything like that.
So I, I went in undecidedand it took a while to figure
out, like to find psychology.
Psychology was my majorand I really enjoyed that.
(33:23):
And then along the way, I foundliterature and academics and, but
yeah, there was always this sense ofI could do anything on some level when
you have no barriers or boundaries,it's a little bit disorienting, you
don't really know which way to go.
Back in the day, at that point, Iwas frustrated, I was like, I wish my
parents had some say or some opinionabout where I shouldn't be heading.
But in the end, it gave me thefreedom to find my own path.
(33:46):
Which is a gift for sure.
But,
Mica (33:48):
Being in this industry for the amount of time that you've been.
How have you seen theindustry invol evolve?
Evan (33:56):
It's definitely grown as my career has grown alongside food media, obviously.
There was always Food Magazine,Sweet Wine, and Gourmet, and
all these, and, and Saveur.
But when I started, that was thebeginning of Grub Street, and Eater,
and a lot of these online foodmedia sites that were ready to share
recipes, and stories of restaurants,and chefs, and all this stuff.
(34:18):
So the appetite for, for that kind ofcontent just grew, and grew, and grew.
And it is symbiotic, like obviously nowis the time where TikTok means a lot for
restaurants and pretty TikTok ignorant,people working in restaurants can
afford to be, so they play into that andthey're aware of, of what fans and what's
(34:41):
popular or what's interesting to people.
So since I started and Istarted shooting in 2004.
There've been so many kind of eras.
I, I talk about this with friends.
Different periods restaurantindustry and here's some names.
You're like, Oh, wow.
That's I totally remember thatfrom, the mid 2000s or whatever.
And when I started DavidChang, I just really exploded.
(35:01):
That was such a landmarkperiod in, in New York dining.
And obviously that, anythingthat takes the world in New York
ends up having repercussionseverywhere else in the world.
So that was definitely a time wherethe New York dining scene changed
dramatically and the understandingof what a nice restaurant is versus
a casual restaurant is startingto get very kind of convoluted.
(35:25):
That was exciting, I think.
And then there was the crash
was like, there was a boom offine dining in, in New York.
And then now we're after COVID, it's, thatwas a whole other sort of geological era.
And now we're kind of entering intothis new phase in New York where
things are feeling rejuvenated,and it's very dynamic, very busy.
(35:46):
I think there has been a big emphasison comfort food, like casual comfort
food, but also, I don't know.
I think there's also been an opening fortalented people to do something that's
more personal, which is exciting to see.
And hopefully there'llbe more and more of that.
New York isn't big.
It's a big pond and there's a lot here.
A lot of it is similar and it's nice tosee people doing something that's just
(36:12):
personal, individualized, that kind ofstands out because it's going against
the tide what generally is the mostprofitable or most saleable in the city.
And I see a lot of thathappening now, which is great.
Mica (36:25):
When things really started opening up, I expected this, almost
re renaissance of new restaurants,new everything, because we've
all been, cooped up in our homes.
And I'm happy that itreally has felt like that.
I'm happy that the restaurants thatI love and love very much were able
(36:47):
to stay open during, COVID because itreally, really was a difficult time.
As New York was just hit so hard.
A lot of, people lost their, losttheir lives, lost their jobs.
What got you through that time?
Evan (37:00):
I was lucky enough to be asked by the restaurant organization
Roar to do a fundraiser.
I spent a lot of the, those primeshutdown months organizing this
auction prints that people would go onInstagram and they could order prints
and raise money for the organization.
I was pleasantly surprised, butraise around 9, 000 dollars.
So that was great.
(37:22):
And then, in many ways, youjust, you were just there trying
to survive this unknown thing.
So work took a backseat.
I didn't sleep that much reallyduring that time, but enjoyed
time with my then partner.
And it was a very kind ofobviously scary and unsettling
time, but in other ways, peaceful.
(37:42):
And you just were living inthis very quiet moment, which
in some ways was refreshing.
That's weird to say, I know, but Ina place like New York where things
really slow don't really slow down somuch, it was an interesting period.
Restaurant industry people were notdeterred and they were determined
to keep their business going and dotakeout and do all of these things.
(38:06):
And at a certain point I got bored andI reached out to Alex Stupak who has
the Empale restaurants here in the city.
And I know he was trying to get histakeout business going just to be
able survive and pay employees andkeep things going, which is admirable.
And I said, Hey, I'm, I, I boredto death and you're doing these
efforts to get, take out going.
(38:26):
So we've shot before in the past.
I shot his cookbook and we shotfor his restaurants before.
And I said let's just, cause Iwant to be busy and you can use
the images for marketing and topromote all the efforts and we'll
just do it as a friendly exchange.
And I did some of that, with peoplethat I, that I trusted, that I knew
that I had working relationships with.
(38:47):
Eventually restaurants startedto get more and more busy.
2020 ended up being, I mean, I shot threecookbooks in that at the end of that year.
Was very slow for most of that year.
By the end it was, I was lucky and itpicked up and it was obviously very
different, but, but there was work andpeople were doing things and in spite
of the situation people made it work.
Mica (39:08):
That's so awesome.
That's cool that you did three cook.
That's impressive.
I can only sit around for so long.
I actually got into baking during thattime and I went and bought all the stuff
to make bread, the knives, the baskets.
And, and then I watched avideo on, sourdough starter
and I'm like, nah, that's.
I think I'm just goingto keep watching people.
(39:30):
You mentioned earlier about how youfound photography to be therapeutic and
and you mentioned just now about how NewYork, during that time, it slowed down.
Was photography that same therapeuticthat you felt then that you, you
know, that got you through 2020?
Evan (39:52):
I actually would say not really, I think for a lot of that shutdown
period, I really did have my camera away.
I don't know why particularly.
I, I think I'm quite busy with workand so I don't mind having the occasion
to not have to rely on my camera.
Yeah, it was, it was a peculiar time.
(40:13):
There was a lot of social unrest.
There was yeah, people were veryill at ease in the city and some
ways it was just existing and then.
Finding the pleasure in existing wasliving with my then partner at the time.
And so yeah, I, I, when, when it cametime to work again, then of course I
was pleased to be able to work again,but I've never been someone to really,
(40:35):
it's been a while since I like turnedmy camera as a source of therapy.
I was trying to, stay fit and, andthese days like exercise and travel
for sure, or, or the things I reallygoing to museums are the things that
really refresh me and restore me.
I'm always happy to be shooting andalways happy to have work and and
I'm fortunate that it, it, it comes.
Always lucky enough to have that as aconstant, but when it's not required,
(41:00):
I'm, I'm just happy to be in the world.
Of course, I go out and I dine and Itake crappy iPhone photos of whatever I'm
eating, like anyone else, but that's morefor souvenir's sake than anything else.
Mica (41:14):
I, I nothiced that, especially, in the last year and half that I
stopped taking my work camera withme and I'm just happy with my iPhone.
When I go out to eat, I'm like,okay, I don't need to walk away
with this magnificent masterpiece.
I guess I'm getting better at being ableto separate moments where these are just
(41:37):
for me versus moments for everyone else.
What do you do when you need toseek out moments for yourself?
Evan (41:46):
I do end up putting a lot of wherever, when I go out to eat
with friends, a lot of that stuffends up as stories on Instagram.
It's a nice way to share that.
And also, give shout out to placesthat I enjoy frequenting and or,
someplace new that I've discovered.
I, I do like Instagram.
It's a great tool in many ways.
And I usually reserve thegrid for work related stuff.
(42:07):
And then stories isjust my day to day life.
Like a glimpse inside of that.
And I find it pretty fun and funny andI don't really take it super seriously.
Yeah, stories are just this littlevisual diary and, you know, look,
I, I am a photographer, so I knowthat when I take a picture, that's
a bad, ugly, stupid picture.
I know that it's a bad, ugly,stupid picture and I'm fine with it.
(42:29):
I'm not trying to, to,
I think that's
to be like a full on influencer.
I think there's a lot of pressureto always be generating content
and always be concerned aboutevery photo being, totally perfect.
I embrace the fact that I'm mostlyjust out there having a good time
and happy to show that I'm awesome inwhatever way, but then yeah, on the
grid, is where I put the stuff thatI, I consider like more cultural work.
Mica (42:51):
They told us in school to treat your feed almost like a
secondary portfolio of your website.
Evan (43:00):
I love that idea that someone was talking to you about Instagram at
school, but that was like, part of yourcurriculum was to learn about Instagram.
Mica (43:06):
I will say this though.
He had no business teaching usabout Instagram because we were
teaching him more about Instagram.
So I have two more questions for you.
We have talked a little about,food photography, how you
approach your photo shoots.
So my question is, what do youthink sets apart memorable food
photography from food every day?
Evan (43:29):
Anything that sort of unexpected is always fun.
Just whether it's a pop color orsome energy in it that unexpected.
Obviously that makes it stand out.
great lighting is as photographersomething that always resonates,
especially when there's a niceplay of highlights and shadows.
(43:50):
And then, I think story just a senseof place and a sense of personality,
a sense of what's going on behindthat dish is a big part of it.
There's so many different kindsof great photography in general.
Something very simple and pristine canbe very striking and something very
heavily propped and very messy canalso, create a sensation in the viewer.
(44:16):
I guess what you really want is to feelstirred by something, whether, it gets
your taste buds salivating, or you justfeel like you're transported into a place.
For a moment those are the ones that Ithink are the most emotionally successful.
Emotionally successful.
Yeah, the ones that make you reallyfeel something that you can't even
(44:37):
quite identify, whether it's liketransports you to a certain time of day
or a certain place or a certain mood.
Mica (44:43):
How long into your career before you felt like you were
creating standout, memorable images?
Evan (44:53):
I think everyone is capable of taking great photos, you know what?
It's partially just beingaware and being present.
I think being a professional is havingto do that on command all the time.
But I do think everyone, especially thesedays with the phone, getting everyone's
capable of taking really spectacularphotos, at least one or two every once in
(45:14):
a while, I hadn't really done it before.
So being asked to go to restaurantsand shoot these beautiful dishes.
It was a lot of fun.
And so I was super pleased with a lotof the stuff I did, it was all new to
me, so it felt very fresh and I'm sureit wasn't that groundbreaking at the
time, but, it excited me, so even atthe beginning, it was enough to fuel
(45:35):
me and say like, I really liked howthat looked and I can't wait to, to
try a different dish or a differentrecipe and see what that looks like.
After a while you start to feel likeyou're In a rut or like you plateaued
or you're doing the same thing.
And I always say that there wasa moment where I saw the Alinea
cookbook and that really jumpstarteda different understanding of what
(45:56):
food photography could be, it was muchmore artistic, much more visual and
graphic and sculptural and dramatic.
And that kind of set me off on adirection of working with chefs who really
played it in that very graphic style.
Whereas before I was doing somethingthat was much softer, much more lifestyle
oriented natural light, that was somethingthat inspired a different approach.
Mica (46:22):
I love that.
You mentioned earlier just now about how,you know, you didn't know if the images
you were creating were spectacular,but they felt good to you and, you
wanted to recreate that over and over.
I want to close out today's interviewwith a new photographer came to you
today and said, Hey, I'm starting out.
(46:42):
This is my, my new gig, my new life.
What's one skill that they shouldlearn now that will benefit
them throughout their career?
Evan (46:52):
I just always say that I think to be successful at anything, it just
requires being professional, honestly.
Like you spend your wholecareer practicing your craft
and trying to get better or tryto adjust, address challenges.
And you feel like, you're weakerin one area and you're trying
(47:13):
to get better in that area.
Yeah.
So that's the kind of day by day,lifelong quest, but the skill that I
think really puts you ahead and keepgenerating work and keep clients coming
back is just to be, kind and communicativeand responsible and answer emails
(47:36):
relatively promptly and show up on time.
And know, all these kinds oflife things that I think make
people feel like, Oh, you take.
You take everything you do seriously,not just photography, but like really
everything, how you enter a space, howyou leave a space, how you do business.
(47:58):
Those are the thingsthat no one teaches you.
And you can learn a lot of theseother technical things, but I
don't think you're a hot mess.
But if someone were genuinelya hot mess then they need to
learn to not be such a hot mess.
That'll, that'll just get in their way.
I, I have every belief that theyare passionate about photography
and want to succeed or wantto create beautiful images.
(48:21):
But if you can't keep things together andcan't keep things moving forward, then
you're just getting in the wrong way.
So to me, that's always been the mostvaluable thing, honestly, in any field.
I think.
Yeah, being, being the best is not,it's only going to get you so far.
Mica (48:38):
Gosh, I could listen to that forever and ever.
I know that you've got to run.
I really appreciate you being on the show.
Evan (48:47):
Yeah, no, thank you for having me.
It's great to chat with you.
No, thank you.
I'm sorry that I do have to run, but no,it was a really good conversation and I'm
really glad to have met you and yeah, it'salways nice to talk about this industry.
Mica (48:59):
Where can the listeners find you and follow you if they're not already?
They should be.
Evan (49:04):
The easiest is on my Instagram.
It's Evan Sung.
N-Y-C-E-B-A-N-S-U-N-G-N-Y-C.
Or www.
evansung.com, for my website, whichdefinitely needs to be revisited.
I need to work on that, but yeah.
Mica (49:19):
Thank you so much for being on the show.
Evan (49:22):
Thank you.
Take care.
Talk soon.
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