Equipping Kids for the Reality War: Teaching Biblical Worldview in a Secular Culture – Renton Rathbun - Schoolhouse Rocked: The Homeschool Revolution

Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
What's happening right now in our world is that we're having a
we're having a reality war. You know, the world wants to say
that we are powerful enough as humans to be the interpreters of
this world. And we will say what it is.
We have to make sure that our our kids are armed to know how
to fight in this reality war andbiblical worldviews where it

(00:21):
begins. Hey everyone, welcome back to
the Schoolhouse Rock podcast. I'm Yvette Hampton.
In this week, we're excited to bring you one of our best of
episodes with Renton Rathbun, where we dive deep into the
topic of biblical worldview. Renton brings a wealth of
knowledge and experience and today we'll explore the power of
the Bible. We also discussed the importance

(00:43):
of apologetics and how to effectively teach and instill A
biblical worldview on our children.
Get ready for an insightful and thought provoking conversation
as we unpack. The challenge is an importance
of maintaining A biblical worldview in today's secular
culture. But first, I want to say thank
you to BJU Press Homeschool for sponsoring the Schoolhouse Rock

(01:04):
podcast. There are materials won't just
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whatever God has next. They've created their curriculum
to give you the tools you need that are rooted in a solid
biblical foundation. BJU Press Homeschool offers

(01:26):
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(01:46):
bjupresshomeschool.com. That's bjupresshomeschool.com.
Now enjoy my interview with Renton Rathbun.
Well, Renton, welcome to the podcast.
I am thrilled to have you with me this week.
As I said, I heard you speak many years ago.
We were actually talking. It was February of 2019, so it
was pre COVID. It was back in those days,

(02:08):
right, where no one even knew what we were about to launch
into as, as a, a world. And, and so things were so much
easier back then in a lot of ways.
But you spoke with Heidi Saint John and Zan Tyler and several
other people and you talked about biblical worldview.
So we're going to park on that all week this week.
It's such an important topic forhomeschoolers, but before we

(02:31):
jump into talking about that, would you introduce yourself to
our audience, tell them what youdo for a living and a little bit
maybe about your family? Sure.
Yeah, We, I'm, I'm the director of the Center for Biblical
Worldview at Bob Jones University.
My main job is to align the university with the press and

(02:52):
the Academy and the seminary allwith one view of biblical world
view so that we're all doing thesame thing.
And as far as my family goes, I,I have AI have three kids.
I have a 22 year old son who is going to be getting married this

(03:12):
November. We homeschooled him and we also
have a a 6-7 year old and an 8 year old.
Wow. And we are currently
homeschooling them and they are special needs kids.
We, we adopted them. We, we were so close to having

(03:36):
everybody out of the house. I mean, Danny was on his way out
and I like to tell people we just weren't ready to be happy
yet. And so, so we, we fostered for
many years and, and we our firstassignment were these two is a
newborn baby and a, and a 14 month old and his 14 month old

(03:57):
sister. And we were always told you'll
never adopt your first assignment.
And so we have had our first assignment for goodness seven
years. So.
Never say never. Yeah, that's right.
So we adopted them about two years after we started fostering
them. So.

(04:19):
That's incredible. You said.
You serve as the director of theCenter for Biblical Worldview
for Bob Jones University. And many years ago, before I
went to the Foundation Summit, we went to BJU.
We, we got to tour the whole campus and it was really cool
because we got to see all the behind the scenes things at BJU.

(04:39):
We got to see the press and where you actually physically
print all of the BJU curriculum and books and and resources.
It's an amazing facility. It's, it's one of the coolest
field trips we've ever taken. It wasn't even a really a field
trip with a group of people, butit was just our family.
And we got to go to the university and we got to go
through the campus and just see all the different departments

(05:01):
and meet all kinds of different people.
And it was really cool. But the part that impressed us
the most was the Biblical Worldview department and it they
took us through this department.I don't think you were there.
This was probably back in 2017. I think that we did this and we
got to tour through where they actually, like you guys,

(05:23):
actually make sure that everything that's being
published through Bob Jones University is in line with
Scripture. And that is that is what
everyone should be doing, right?I mean, as homeschool parents,
we need to make sure that everything that we're teaching
to our kids is in line with scripture and with truth.

(05:44):
And so that's your job there. That's the coolest job, I think
on that whole campus, I have to say, I think you have the most
amazing job. But as parents, we need to be
doing the same thing. We need to be teaching our kids
from curriculum and resources and God's creation, everything
through the lens of Scripture. So I want to jump first into

(06:06):
what does that even mean? Like if people might hear like
biblical worldview, what what isthat exactly?
Can you define that for us? And then I want to jump into
just what that looks like for usas homeschool families.
Absolutely, yeah. And you know what, that has been
the biggest issue I have found with with biblical worldview.
Everyone kind of seems to know what it does, but they don't

(06:29):
know what it is. It's kind of like love, right?
I mean, if you ask people what love is, they'll say, well, love
is sacrificing, love is putting someone else before yourself.
And, and it's true, that's what it does, but that's not what it
is. And so and so we have that same
wrestling match with biblical worldview.
So typically with worldview, people are thinking in terms of

(06:52):
how I interpret the world through the lens of something.
And biblical worldview people say, well, I interpret the world
through the lens of Scripture. Well, that's what biblical
worldview does. But what is it?
What is a view from the Bible? And typically, you know, my

(07:12):
biggest problem was as I looked around, no one was defining it.
They were all just saying what it does.
And, and when someone attempted to define it, they started with
people, with humans, our lens, how we see the world.
But that's not a biblical worldview, isn't how I see the
world. Biblical worldview is how does

(07:32):
Scripture, how does Scripture seeing the world?
And then, you know, what does that even mean?
And so we started looking at that and we, and we came up with
this, we, we saw that a biblicalworldview actually starts with
God. And so we see that a biblical

(07:53):
worldview is God's, God's explanation of God's world.
And so we see that this isn't our world and this isn't a
neutral world waiting to be interpreted.
This is God's world. So we're looking at God's
explanation of God's world that he gives us through God's word,

(08:14):
which is designed for God's image bearers.
So what we see is there's no other, there's no other reality
to look at. We, we live only in God's
reality because he spoke it intobeing.
And so, and so if we're going tointerpret the world, we need
God's explanation of God's worldthrough God's word.

(08:38):
And so if we reverse that, what we find is God's image bearers
use God's word to interpret God's world so that we can align
ourselves with God's explanation.
And so and so as we look at biblical worldview, that's what
we're trying to do. We're trying to align with God's
explanation, but a biblical worldview is God's explanation

(09:02):
of God's world that he shares with us through his Word.
Yeah, which is why it's so important for us to be in the
word, reading it for ourselves, reading it with our children.
I just am always amazed. I'm reading through the Book of
Revelation right now. And it's incredible to me
because I've read through Revelation a few times before.
But as I read it, like, I just more and more, I understand it

(09:25):
better and better and more and more is exposed.
And I'm like, oh, I don't ever remember reading this part.
I know I've read it before, but I don't remember reading this
part about, you know, the letters to the churches and, and
just God revealing himself. And it's so amazing to me that
the more we read it, the better we understand.
And the more we pray that the Holy Spirit will help us to
understand his word, the more hedoes.

(09:46):
And that I think that's such an important part of really
understanding what that biblicalworldview is and defining it as
as praying and asking the Holy Spirit to help us to really
understand it. Otherwise it's just words on a
page, right? That sometimes we don't
understand. And what's what's happening
right now in our world is that we're having a we're having a
reality war. I mean, you know, the world

(10:08):
wants to say that we are, we arepowerful enough as humans to be
the interpreters of this world. And we will say what it is to
the point where we can deny, youknow, even down to, you know,
what, what, what, what my genderis.
I can, I can declare it because I am the interpreter of this

(10:30):
world. And, and in this reality war, we
have to make sure that our our kids are armed to know how to
fight in this reality war and biblical world views where it
begins. It, it, it allows us to really
delve into the thinking of any subject because it's trying to

(10:52):
establish reality with the subject that we're, that we're
trying to communicate to ours, to our kids.
And if we don't, if we don't teach them that process and
they're going to fall for the same thing every other kids
falling for that's staring at the screen.
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We are back with Renton. Before the break, we talked
about how kids are often times they're falling into the traps
of the secular world. And that's really what's
happening with so many kids today, with adults as well,
right? I mean, it's not just the kids
who are falling into this trap, but adults are as well.

(11:58):
And we're seeing kids and adultsalike.
It's so shocking to me as we seeprominent Christian leaders, you
know, often times pastors, maybethey're musicians, maybe they're
authors. And they're just saying, yeah, I
don't believe this anymore. I don't believe this Bible.
I don't really believe in God. I don't believe the things that
I once said I believed. Why?
Why is this happening with adults and kids alike?

(12:21):
Why are people walking away fromthe faith and leaning more and
more into secular culture? Yeah, I've been thinking about
this a lot. I've, I've been teaching for
over 2020 years now, most of which has been in the secular
colleges and universities. And so the things I used to
teach were in the secular world anyway was intro to philosophy,

(12:45):
ethics, medical ethics, logic, things like that.
And in. And what I've seen is the world
has tools that it uses to indoctrinate.
It begins with it begins with aniPhone typically and social
media trying to teach kids that being special is the most

(13:08):
important thing you could possibly imagine.
And so if you're unique, if you're, if you have something,
if you have some kind of niche, then then you will make it in
this world and you will be special.
That niche has been instructed throughout, through TV shows,
through media, that the way you can become special is start to

(13:32):
question your agenda, start to question who you're attracted
to. Anything sexual in that way,
even if we have to sexualize children will do it to make sure
everyone can can find their pathto the world's way of thinking,
which is a worldview. They almost don't even mind.
If you keep a little bit of yourfaith, if you attend church and

(13:55):
that's your thing, that's awesome.
I mean, you know, that's great, but but make sure you're getting
on board with the rest of us with this LGBTQ stuff and all
that, because if you're not on board, then you're just really
unloving and that wasn't Jesus loving and you want to be loving
and special. And they're they're making all
these promises to the kids. So by the time, and this is this

(14:18):
is something that's really interesting to me.
You have a lot of people starting to home school because
they see how horrible the publichigh school is.
And in public elementary schools, they find they've seen
it, they saw what they're saying, they pull them out.
A lot of people are starting to home school because of that,
which is great. But then they say, well, now
that Johnny is 18, I'm going to send them to a public high

(14:39):
school or a public college or public university.
And they think this way and, andit, it, it makes sense.
But they think, well, I'll, there's, they're going to live
at home. I'll send them to the local
Community College or university and they'll stay at home with me
and they'll be OK because we'll still be going to church.
They're same church, they love their youth group and they're

(15:01):
just going to go part time to the school.
Everything will be fine. But what they don't understand
is that at public colleges and universities, these are well
trained. I can put it this way, secular
evangelicals who are trying to win over the student and it

(15:23):
doesn't take long. What they I don't know if you've
seen the movie God is not dead, the first one, not the 4th one
that's come out, but they, they really paint a picture that's
that's just isn't reality. They paint a picture that the
kid goes into the secular college and the secular
professor is like, oh, and there's a Christian.

(15:44):
They're like, I'm a Christian and they're like this big fight,
you know, and of course the kid,you know, knows way more than
the PhD, so that that makes sense.
And and then he wins at the end.Well, in no way looks like that,
at least as has not been my experience in my 20 some years
of teaching. What I've seen is that the

(16:05):
professor will try and pinpoint who the Christians are.
They might even say, who in hereis religious, just so I know,
you know who, you know what's going on?
And the kids will raise their hand and they'll say, you know
what, that's awesome. We live in a in this cynical
world and for you to hold on to your faith is brave.
That's cool. Immediately the kid says, oh,

(16:27):
this isn't like God is not dead.They lower their guard down
because this guy's cool. This guy, you know, says that,
that I'm brave. Yeah, he gets me.
And then and then the professor goes on and, and he'll say, you
know, but there, there are problems with with these, you
know, with religions, for instance, with Christianity of

(16:47):
the Bible. But a lot of people don't agree
on things. So they have different
denominations and denomination after denomination.
But in this class, you know, might be a physics class, in
this class, we have math and that's just one denomination.
We can all agree on math, can't we?
I mean, can't we? And so when a kid isn't, isn't
raised with a biblical worldview, he might think math

(17:07):
is one of those things that's neutral.
And so, yeah, we can agree on math because math is math.
I mean, there's no biblical world view of math, is there?
And so and so this what the professor does is he immediately
separates them from their faith.And they didn't even know it
because he just said, you know, in this room, we're going to
talk about math. I mean, religion's great, glad

(17:28):
you have it. But here it's going to be math.
And he's making a distinction already that's making the
student feel feel at rest because he doesn't feel like
he's going to be fighting. And at the same time, he just
separated them from their faith.Saying your faith doesn't have
anything to do with math. Your faith doesn't have anything
to do with the template we're going to use to criticize these

(17:49):
this literature. Your faith has nothing to do
with the kind of rigor we're going to do in this classroom,
which is neutral stuff. And if the kid is used to that,
if your kids are used to, you know, well, religious stuff is
over here, which is great, love it.
But you know, everything else isneutral.
They're going to fall for it immediately.

(18:11):
And what a professor will do is he will then give them something
very sophisticated to understand, something that they
that's very hard to understand, very complex, but they package
it in a way that helps them get it and they make a connection.
That's what happens. That's why homeschooling is so
powerful, because as a parent, you're able to make a connection
with your with your kids where you are gifting them ideas in

(18:37):
ways that they can understand itand it opens their mind.
It makes them think and they areappreciative to that.
There is a connection made. Well, the same thing happens in
college. And all the professor has to do
is package that in such a way that if they accept that and
they now are smart, they're now intelligent.
They get what the professor gets.
You just have to deny parts of your Bible now, not the whole

(18:59):
thing, but just parts of it. And that's where it begins.
And that's how the process and it's a very useful, useful tool.
Yeah, yeah. And sometimes not even denying
it, but thinking of it as fiction, right.
I mean, Noah in the flood, like that's not realistic.
You know, it's just a story in the Bible that didn't actually
happen. There was not actually a

(19:19):
worldwide flood. And and all of these things, you
know, Daniel and the lion's den and David and Goliath, like
those things didn't actually happen.
But then that leads down to the road of a man dying on the cross
and raising from the dead three days later.
Well, that's just fiction too. I mean it, it all leads
ultimately to their disbelief inthe cross, right?

(19:41):
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We were talking about why so many people are walking away

(20:22):
from a biblical worldview, and that is a scary thing.
I think as Christian parents, weoften think about that and we
want to hold tight to our kids and we homeschool them because
we want to give them Jesus. We want to point them to the
cross. And it's the most terrifying
thing for a Christian parent to think, oh, I've done all of this
work, you know, I've trusted theLord and then send them off to a

(20:44):
university that may or may not teach them truth.
And, and I want to park here fora minute because I want you to
talk about the difference since you've taught in both secular
and Christian universities. I know that not all Christian
universities are created equal. Secular universities, we know
what to expect from them. Secularism, right?

(21:05):
We know to expect a secular worldview, Christian
universities, often times we just assume, well, they've got
the Christian tag on them and sotherefore they must be a
Christian university. And we had an experience back in
April where my daughter and I went and visited a, a quote, UN
quote, Christian university. It was one that is very familiar

(21:25):
to a lot of people. I will not give the name of it,
but it was a university that a lot of people go to it.
It's, it's quite large. And they brought us out there.
They took us for a tour of the university and it was fantastic
to see what a university was like.
That was first time Brooklyn hadever actually been on a
university campus besides Bob Jones University.
But to actually see in action what a university day looked

(21:50):
like. And as we were learning more and
more about this university and hearing from different people
that we were in a big group of people, and I asked the
question, I said, you know, do you require your professors to
be believers? And they said, oh, no, only our
theology department. But no one, our other professors
are not required to be believers.
They don't have to sign a statement of faith or anything.

(22:11):
And I thought, well, that's interesting.
Neither do their students. And as we went on and they were
talking about the different clubs and things that they had
on campus, I said, so raise my hand again.
I, I was kind of the like, I'm going to ask all the questions
because I really wanted to know these things.
And I said, you know, so you have all of these clubs and, and
things that support the student body.

(22:31):
I said, and I asked it in a way that I didn't want them to know
where I stood on it because I wanted them to be honest about
the answer. I said, do you host clubs like,
you know, LGBTQ and things like that?
And they said, Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.
That those are student LED clubs, but we allow those on
campus and went on to say, but, and we also have what's called
an inclusive lounge. And this inclusive lounge was
for all students. And like you said, it's for the

(22:53):
Christians, but it's also for the LGBT community and the
Muslims and the Mormons and the atheists and everybody.
And it's where everybody can come together and they can feel
loved and accepted and welcomed.And I just, I was like, what is
happening? And we walked away from that
that tour so discouraged. And both my daughter and I just

(23:15):
said this is definitely not for us.
But I was heartbroken because I thought this is a university
that is a very Christian labeleduniversity that most people
would think if they send their children there, they are going
to get taught a biblical worldview.
And that is absolutely not the case there.
It might be in some classes maybe, but the majority of

(23:37):
classes that's not the case unless they're in the theology
department. So I, I know that that's a long
story, but I want you to talk through that because as those of
us who have high schoolers and even middle school kids, as
we're looking to their future and looking to where they may go
to school, may continue their education after our home school.

(23:57):
What have you seen in the world of universities, both secular
and Christian? And why is it dangerous to just
say, OK, Christian university, let's go there?
Yeah, you have to do your homework because like, like your
story shows, there are this, andI mentioned this in the last in

(24:21):
our last podcast together. We are in a reality war and
Christianity is, is failing miserably.
They're failing because what they've given into is the
secular idea that your religion is fine in a in its place, but
you need to make room the synchronistic idea that your

(24:43):
worldview can't be one thing. It has to be many things.
So you have to add appreciation for sin.
You have to add acceptance of sin.
You have to add even this some approval of sin.
Otherwise you're a bigot. You're, you're not loving and,

(25:03):
and all those sort of things. And what we find is that, you
know, you can have all the clubsyou want, you can have the best
Christian band come you want, you can have, you can have Trump
come and speak. You can have all these things
happen that make you sound like the most conservative place in
the world. But if biblical worldview work
is not happening in the classroom, whether you're taking

(25:27):
an English course, a math course, a history course, any
course, you should be able to have biblical worldview work
being done. Because what biblical worldview
work does is it forces you to think critically.
In other words, you have to trace your beliefs.
Here's a belief about that I have about history.

(25:49):
Here's a belief I have about math.
How do I trace that back to knowthat that belief, that fact or
belief, whatever you want to call it, actually traces back to
my ultimate authority, God's Word.
I mean, that's what that's what no one wants.
People are fond of God's word. They they think it's wonderful,
but they don't see it as the authority that interprets all of

(26:12):
all of life. They don't, they don't like that
idea. And that's, and that's why, you
know, even Rosario Butterfield is coming out with a new book
pretty soon, should be out by now about the lies the church
has accepted. She told me, she said, if you
have a if you have a, a university, a Christian

(26:34):
university and you have clubs for LGBTQ students, you've
already lost the battle. Even if you're just trying to be
nice. She said all you're really doing
is you're creating a dating parlor for them.
And you are adding to the frustration and the sin that
they are, that they are in. And, and so you have to stand

(26:56):
and you have to be able, you have to be willing to sacrifice
something. Right.
Yeah, and many are not. We actually, after that visit, I
spoke with some of their facultymembers and and and I confronted
them on it and said, you know, so you call yourselves Christian
University in a in a loving way,you know, and and I said, but I

(27:17):
don't quite understand why you allow these things.
And they, I mean, the answers they gave were nonsense anyway.
But basically, you know, they said, well, you know, we want to
bring in a lot of students to the school.
And, and ultimately what it camedown to was that they want the
biggest school. They want the biggest number,
highest number of students. And it wasn't really about the
discipleship at all. It was about bringing in as many

(27:39):
students as possible. And they knew that they would be
ostracizing so many students if they didn't offer, you know, a
safe place for these students tobe instead of bringing them in
but not accepting their sin and just saying, you know, But
here's what the word of God says.
That's right. So yeah, it's a scary, scary
place to be. Let's take a break.
We'll be right back. You're listening to the Biblical

(28:00):
Family Network. Hey, I'm Miki.
And I'm. Will and we're the Co host of
the culture Proof podcast. We want to invite you to join us
every week as we discuss what's happening in the world and then
filter those happenings through a decidedly biblical.
Lens There are many questions, especially when we see what's
happening in our culture today. But the answers are found within

(28:20):
the Word of God, so that's wherewe want to look.
Amen. When we resist those cultural
trends that rival the truth, we remain culture proof.
As we've talked about biblical worldview and what that looks
like, you know, and whether it'sin a university or in our home
school or whatever, I think thatsometimes there are ways that we
get it wrong, right? Talk about that.

(28:41):
How do we get biblical worldviewwrong?
And then how do we rightly shapethe minds of our children?
Well, I'll tell you this, like any homeschool parent, we're
super picky about what we use, what kind of curriculum and, and
textbooks and things like that. And I think that's one of the

(29:02):
strengths of, of homeschooling. You get to be the picky one.
You don't, you're not at the mercy of someone else and
deciding these things because what I've seen out there is how
terribly wrong it could go. There's textbooks out there that
claim to have a biblical world view that they, you know, it's

(29:23):
become the all natural seal. I mean, if you remember that
from from back in the 90s and the two early 2000s, if it said
all natural, we thought it meantit was good for you because it
was all natural. I mean, what else does that
mean? In 2015, they found that that
actually the FDA never approved that statement put on things.

(29:44):
So it didn't mean anything. You could have put All Natural
on the Kit Kat bar and it would have been, it's fine, it's
legal. And I think that's what biblical
world view has turned into. People slap it on their
textbooks, they slap it on theircurriculum, and I think a lot of
people really believe they actually have it.
But what they've really done is they've taken a Bible verse that

(30:06):
seems to kind of correlate and then they kind of shove it in
there. There's lots of ways that people
get it wrong. So they might find one thing.
Let's say you have a science textbook and they say, well, God
has designed everything. And that's true, and that's
great. But what if design is the only
thing they ever, ever talk about?

(30:27):
Throughout the entire book? What you're doing is you're
setting your kids up for the debate over whether design can
naturally come about. They need more than that.
They want, they need to see thatthere are levels of biblical
worldview that they begin to go through.

(30:48):
And so I've seen, I've seen textbooks take the same, the
same basic idea and write all the way through the book.
There's no diversity. There's no talking about
different types of of, of themesof worldview going through
there. And there's no levels of
learning. And so, and I know I'm I'm

(31:08):
prejudice towards BGU press, butit's, it's only because they're
doing it right. And So what they do is they say,
well, how do we get kids really actually engaging and then being
able to assess their biblical worldview.
And so, so it starts out with identifying themes of, of
biblical worldview throughout the textbook.

(31:29):
Then it goes to analyzing those things and then evaluating bad
worldviews and then being able to formulate a worldview and
then apply worldview out in the real world where you're getting
application going. And so those now those are
Bloom's taxonomy words, you know, that people in education

(31:49):
are all excited about. But what it does is it helps
them them build and scaffold their way through biblical
worldview thinking so that they are learning a pattern of
thinking as they see the world. And every subject flow, you
know, makes them flow through that pattern so that when they
go out in the world, it becomes a habit.

(32:10):
And being able to make your brain habitually interpret the
world through God's Word is exactly what we want our kids to
do. Otherwise, you know, if you
don't have that kind of pattern,that template for them that they
constantly use and constantly, you know, get used to it,
understand it, they're going to,they're going to fall for

(32:32):
anything, any bad argument, any bad worldview because they don't
have that template. And BGU Press does that in a way
that I think is, is really the right, the right way to do it.
And whatever you use, especiallyif you're a homeschooler,
whatever it is you do use, go through there, make sure they're
assessing the biblical worldview, not just having it,

(32:54):
not just have a Bible verse at the beginning, but they're
showing that you can assess thisprocess with your student.
If they're doing that, then you know, great, use it.
Yeah, yeah. So you're really talking about
biblical authority. We want to start with the Word
of God, make that the authority and what we're teaching our kids
and that everything else should come under that.

(33:16):
And it takes work, but there are, you know, organizations and
and ministries like you and I'm thinking of apologia that we can
teach our kids from. So it's not like we have to go
and do it all ourselves. We have the resources available
to us today to be able to teach our kids Scripture through
academics and academics through the lens of Scripture.

(33:39):
I want to talk about our child'sholiness and and what does
biblical worldview have to do with the holiness of our child
that kind of explain that and unpack that for us.
Absolutely. Yeah.
We we run the danger when we talk about biblical worldview of
keeping it a mental a mental workout, helping the kids, you

(34:02):
know, trace back their beliefs back to how you know that we can
justify our beliefs through God's word.
And that's wonderful. The problem is if they're not
shaped by it, even into their hearts where it becomes a part
of who they are, we're really wasting our time because what
what ends up happening is they they grow up and they say, well,

(34:24):
that was mom and dad's face. That wasn't mine.
And they may have learned all those things, but if it doesn't
hit the heart, we're in trouble.And so I've been thinking a lot
about this because someone challenged me on this.
Actually, I'd just given a, somespeech on biblical worldview
and, and you know, assessments and all that sort of stuff.

(34:45):
And they said, well, there's something missing about this
whole thing. And I'm like, well, what, what's
missing? You know, man, I can turn into a
speech or something. And they were like, like, well,
what about holiness? I mean, how does this make
anyone, you know, actually act different?
And what's concerning to me is that we, we live at a time where

(35:06):
it seems like even the church despises holiness.
They, they despise having to take a stand against LGBTQ
stuff. They despise having to take a
stand against sin. They, they don't want to be
Pharisees and they use that as ashield to not have to obey God's
law. And so we have to tie a biblical

(35:28):
worldview to God's word and not just to God's word.
But how do we get our, our youngpeople loving God's word?
David says that he he said in the Psalms.
He said I love your law. I mean.
I mean, how do how do we start helping our kids understand that

(35:51):
we are, you know, the law isn't evil the the law, you know, we
can't by ourselves follow the law, but but the law is God's
character and loving the law, loving God's word is loving
God's character. One of the main things that I
think is so powerful about homeschooling is, is being able
to have home worship where this,where the kids see that, OK,

(36:16):
this, this is a part of my learning.
This is a part of, you know, what we do right before we eat,
We pray mom and dad want me to go to church.
But also part of our routine in the day is that we really do
believe this so much that mom and dad are going to worship God
with you. And we're going to, we're going

(36:36):
to sing songs. We're, we're going to read a
little bit out of God's word andthen we're going to talk about
it. And it doesn't have to be 6
hours long. It doesn't have to be a sermon,
doesn't even have to be prepped for it.
It just has to be a time where the family sits around and
actually worships the Lord in a organized way.
So the, so our kids start seeingthat we do believe this.

(36:59):
This isn't just curriculum. This isn't just habits, this is
something mom and dad believe sodeeply that we want to worship
with you. And I think that's part of that
whole biblical worldview work that we have to do with our
kids. Yeah, define holiness for me.
I I know what holiness is. I want to hear your definition.

(37:22):
My definition of holiness is, issimple.
It's set apart. It's being set apart just as
Christ has set apart. If someone asked you to define
holiness, how would you define holiness?
Yes, I would. I would begin with with that
whole idea of being set apart because I think what people
first believe is holiness is being better than other people

(37:42):
in our works. And we we, you know, immediately
start start thinking there's a works righteousness going on.
But no, it's being set apart so that we might be able to imitate
God. And in imitating him, we want to
imitate his character. And how do I imitate God's
character? Well, he gave us, he gave us the

(38:04):
10 commandments. He's given us all kinds of
commands throughout the throughout his word, he's
commanded us how we're supposed to love our children.
He's commanded us how we're supposed to love our wives, how
wives are supposed to respect their husbands.
All that all the work of family work, all the work of even
knowing this, that the fear of the Lord is the beginning of

(38:28):
knowledge so that knowledge is never neutral.
Well, all those things revolve around how do I imitate and I
imitate through imitating his character.
This was so important to Paul. Paul even said, look, if you're
if you're not getting this, imitate me because I'm trying to
imitate Christ. So imitate me, do what I'm doing

(38:49):
because I'm trying to do what Christ is doing.
And it does it does require an absolute commitment to the
reality of God's word. Not, not the not the addition of
God's word, but the reality of God's word.
So Martin Luther put it this way.

(39:09):
He believes that God's word was God speaking reality into being.
And so just like in Genesis, when when God says let there be
light, light had to exist at that moment because God spoke
reality into being. And Luther said that doesn't
stop after creation, it keeps ongoing.

(39:31):
So when God says any other thingthroughout his word, he is
speaking those things into being.
Those things are absolutely true.
He is describing and speaking reality into being through his
word, which makes his word the foundation of all reality

(39:52):
because that's how he spoke to us, which means then that being
set apart requires us to obey. It requires it.
It's not it's not obedience to and this is, I don't want to get
all philosophical on you, but it's not, it's not that we live
in this world where there's these principles out here.

(40:16):
And then God came in. And, and he wants us to, to live
this way. And so we kind of cater to what
he wants. Although there's these more
fundamental principles out here.If that were the case, then yes,
we'd all have to be Pharisees inorder to obey God because
there's more fundamental principles than God out there.

(40:37):
But the truth is there aren't, there's nothing more fundamental
than God. So obedience to the Lord is the
most healthy thing you can possibly do.
And that that holiness is what'sgoing to drive your kids to the
most important part about learning, which is being

(40:58):
interested in what they're learning.
I mean, imagine a kid that that may not be too interested in
math, but he he loves God so much that if you say, well,
there's actually a biblical worldview of math and suddenly
they're gaining interest in mathbecause they love God and they
love his character. So they love his word.

(41:18):
And that interest then becomes that that catalyst for every
subject you teach that gets yourstudent, your kid, interested.
Yeah, I love that you keep bringing up math because math
truly is. I mean, it's one of those
subjects that people think you know, well, how can I teach math
from a biblical worldview? It's simple.
God is a God of order, not chaos.

(41:40):
And when you look at the order of math and how math makes
sense, like any mathematical problem only makes sense because
of God. I mean, if if man tried to
create math, Can you imagine what a mess it would be?
It would never make sense ever. But God is so wise and so
structured that he made math. I mean, and even though I don't

(42:03):
enjoy teaching math, I appreciate math and I understand
that it really does help us to see the holiness of God.
It helps us to see God as the most incredible creator ever.
You know it, it really is amazing.
Let's talk about apologetics. So we're talking about holiness.
We're talking about being set apart once we teach our kids

(42:25):
from a biblical worldview, once they really understand what it
is that they believe and why they believe it And, and we're
working. I mean, it's a constant thing.
It's not like, oh, we're holy today, you know, we have arrived
at holiness. That's never going to happen.
But as we are growing in a relationship with the Lord and
as our kids are, and as they're understanding more and more why

(42:48):
God created them, who they are as humans, apologetics is a
really important part of that. Explain apologetics and how
should we do that at home? How can we teach our kids
apologetics from the home? So first explain what it is for
those who may not know, and thenlet's talk about how we can

(43:08):
teach that at home. Well, it's great that you, you,
you require a definition becauseI'll tell you what, there are
grown-ups that don't understand that are in academia, that don't
understand what it is. And the reason why I think it's
great that we're saving it for the end is because of this one
issue. If worldview, if especially a

(43:29):
biblical worldview, is how I interpret the world using God's
Word. If we don't have that in their
hearts first, they're not going to defend that worldview, which
is what apologetics says. If we start teaching apologetics
without biblical worldview beingin their hearts, all they're

(43:52):
doing is defending mom and Dad'sworldview.
Yeah. And by the time they become
teenagers and leave your home, they will, they will defend mom
and dad's worldview for only so long.
It has to be theirs. And so, and so that's what makes
it so important. So apologetics is different than

(44:13):
worldview because apologetics ishow I defend my worldview using
a method. So there's a there.
Whenever you use apologetics, whether you know it or not,
you're using a method. There's about 5 basic methods
that are out there that are pretty popular.
I won't go into all that, but the point is, is that you're

(44:36):
using a method to defend, in ourcase, to defend the faith.
And what is the faith? Our faith comes from God's Word.
So what we're doing when we're doing apologetics is we're using
a method in order to defend God's word.
Now let me be clear, does God need us to do this?

(44:57):
No, but I always use this this example.
I have a 7 year old son named Jude, and if he's on the
playground with other kids from the neighborhood and whatnot,
the other kids from the neighborhood surround him and
say your dad's dumb, I think your dad's stupid and they start
making fun of his dad. You know I do.

(45:19):
I need my 7 year old to defend me against other 7 year olds.
Well, not really. I mean, I could probably beat up
7 year olds. I don't know, maybe I'm strong
enough. But the point isn't whether I'm
more powerful than other 7 year olds, right?
The the point is, what happens when Jude starts defending me?

(45:42):
I start feeling, if I can put itthis way, glorified.
I feel like I feel my son loves me.
I feel like my son knows me enough to know how to defend me
and loves me enough to actually do the work of defending me.
And so then the question is, do we do that for our father?
Do we know him enough to know how you know, how do I defend

(46:05):
him? But do we love them enough to do
that work? And so when I'm thinking of
apologetics, my first, my first piece of advice to to parents is
this beware of any apologetics that wants to try and prove that
the Bible is right or validate the Bible.

(46:26):
And I say this because when I taught logic, what I, what I
would teach my students is this.When you use one thing to
confirm another thing, the thingthat's doing the confirming is
authoritative over that which it's being confirmed.
Does that make sense? No.

(46:48):
So if I'm using so if I say OK, well.
You're going to have to simplifythis for me.
Yeah, this this here, this, thisevidence proves this thing.
OK, whatever. I'm, you know, we do this in the
court of law, we say evidence isthe superior thing that tells us
whether a person is guilty or not guilty.

(47:09):
Guilty or not guilty is pretty small compared to the evidence.
That'd be helpful. So evidence is superior.
And so, so when someone wants todo that with Scripture, I'm
always trying to caution people,be careful of someone that says
I know Scripture is true becauseof X, because of some evidence

(47:30):
they found or some logical idea that they've come up with.
Because logic and evidence is not powerful enough to prove
Scripture. Scripture is above evidence and,
and logic and all that. It's above it because it's God's
speech. It's really God's speech.
It's not just a bunch of men that got together that tried

(47:51):
their best. This is God's speech to us,
which means nothing other than the Holy Spirit himself can
validate or prove God's word. And so that that's supernatural.
And we've got to stop being afraid of supernatural things,
especially in apologetics, when,when a when someone starts

(48:14):
believing Scripture, something supernatural happened.
The Holy Spirit came upon them and they believed.
And that's what you have to believe.
That I understand, yes. Now, if we're going to do
apologetics, I, I try to bring it down to three major ideas.
First of all, when someone raises up an argument against

(48:36):
the knowledge of God, it is our,it's a requirement that we break
down that knowledge or break down that barrier, that argument
that they raised up against the knowledge of God.
This doesn't mean that I need toprove that the Bible's true.
It means that they, they broughtup an argument that's either
valid or invalid and I have to show that it's invalid.

(48:57):
That argument doesn't work. And that's where you have a lot
of good apologists out there that do good work on that sort
of thing. But you have to be really clear.
That's what you're doing. I'm, I'm invalidating your
argument. I'm not trying to prove the
Bible's true. The Bible is what proves
everything else is true. And so I want to make sure that

(49:20):
work is clear. The other thing I want to do is
I want to show that when someonebrings up an argument that their
whole system of thinking actually is wrong.
So if if you know, you have someone like Jim Carrey that
says, well, you know, you know, nothing really matters because
when we die, we just become moreenergy.

(49:43):
We go back to the energy thing, and so nothing actually matters.
I'm like, well, does that work? Does it work to say that nothing
matters? Then you would have to go and
and show that that system just doesn't work.
If you say that something doesn't matter, well then why
are you telling me that does that?
Matter. It doesn't matter.
Yeah, the whole system doesn't work.

(50:05):
And then lastly, you want peopleto acknowledge, especially in
apologetics, you want to make sure that they're acknowledging
the power of the gospel. So #1 are they really hitting
the argument that's at that's atstake #2 are they attacking the
whole system that that argument's based on the whole
thinking that's behind it? That helps you see if you think

(50:27):
this way, it's not just the argument that that that's wrong.
The whole way of thinking is wrong.
So does the, does the apologetics do that?
And lastly, does the apologeticsdemonstrate the power, the
absolute massive power of the gospel, or does the apologetics
you're looking at does it, is itembarrassed about the gospel?

(50:50):
I have seen a lot of apologeticswhere they are embarrassed about
the gospel. And what you want is apologetics
that do all it all it can to getto the gospel, because that's
where the power is. What?
What do you mean by embarrassed about the?
Gospel. I mean, they don't mention it or
demonstrate that This is why we're having the conversation.

(51:13):
A lot of apologetics stop short and just, you know, they, they,
they bring the argument to a close and say, see that
argument's bad. Like, well, So what?
So what if the argument's bad? What's the, where's the power?
And the power is in the gospel. Let me give you an example.
William Lane Craig just came outwith a book where he, William
Lane Craig, I'm sorry, is a famous apologist.

(51:37):
I think he's a professor down atHouston Christian University
somewhere. Used to be a Viola big name out
there. He just came out with a book
where he has decided that the 1st 11 chapters of the Bible are
actually just myth. This myth.
Now myth is important because myth is very helpful for us to

(51:58):
understand God and and things like that.
But it's still just myth. And so we can't, you know, we
got to be clear that about that.And So what he's done is he's
ashamed of the gospel. He's ashamed of God's word to
the point where he's willing to call it myth to be accepted by
the other academics out there. And, and that happens a lot.
Even people that put more faith in a trinket they found in the

(52:21):
desert to, to demonstrate that the Bible might be true.
I mean, we do not need to find Gopher wood on a mountain to
believe, you know, the flood. We need the Holy Spirit to
believe the flood. If they find Gopher wood on a
mountain, that's awesome, but I didn't need that to believe it.
Does that make sense? Yeah, yeah, that totally makes
sense. Yeah.

(52:41):
So again, it all goes back to the Holy Spirit.
It all goes back to Jesus. It goes back to understanding
God's Word as the ultimate authority.
And in order to understand that,we have to know it.
In order to know it, we have to study it.
We have to teach it to our kids.So, so, yeah, that's how it all
ties up, right? It's all about Jesus.
It's all about the gospel. That's what a biblical worldview

(53:02):
looks like. And it is the most important
thing. So Renton, thank you so much for
being with us this week. It's been so fun talking.
This has been deep. Some of this I'm like, I'm
trying to process some of the stuff you're saying.
I'm like, OK, I'm, I'm catching this.
I'm, I'm trying to get understand.
But I, I, I do appreciate your wisdom and just the experience

(53:22):
that you've had in teaching and understanding and studying
biblical worldview and sharing it with me and with our
audience. And we're so grateful for you.
Tell us again where people can find out more about you.
It's at worldview.bju.edu. OK, I hope.
You'll find a lot of resources there.
Yeah, we'll put that link in theshow notes.
And do you have one last bit of encouragement that you would

(53:44):
like to leave for our audience? Yes, do not give up on on your
on your home schooling work. It is you know, you have those
days where you think, you know what?
I don't know if this is worth it, but I'm telling you as
someone who has gone through theprocess all the way up to at
least 22 years of age with our oldest son, it is it makes all

(54:09):
the difference. So just keep plugging away.
Thank you for that encouragement.
So many parents need to hear that.
They need to know doing OK the Holy Spirit is in it with you if
you've invited him into to be part of your homeschooling with
you. I mean, he is he is so much
bigger than us and so much more powerful.
So so thank you so much Renton and you guys.

(54:30):
Thank you for listening and we are so grateful for you.
I hope that you have been encouraged this week again, you
can find everything@schoolhouserocked.com,
including our super cool swag and things that we have all
those things help to support theministry of Schoolhouse rocked.
We love you guys. Have a great rest of your day.
We'll see you back here next week.
Bye.

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Equipping Kids for the Reality War: Teaching Biblical Worldview in a Secular Culture – Renton Rathbun

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Equipping Kids for the Reality War: Teaching Biblical Worldview in a Secular Culture – Renton Rathbun