March 24, 2025 • 44 mins
Choosing Ourselves In Our Choices // Making Decisions That Are Less Accepted But More Authentic
In this episode, I'm joined by Dimitri Kyvetos, one of my longest and closest friends of over 25 years, to discuss how we can make choices that truly reflect who we are.
We explore:
- The courage needed when choosing ourselves over cultural and family expectations
- How our similar Greek and Italian backgrounds created pressure to follow "acceptable" paths
- Why choosing ourselves builds inner confidence even when it feels uncomfortable
- The fascinating truth that we regret the things we don't do more than the things we actually do Dimitri shares his journey of choosing himself by making significant career changes, including his decision to work for himself.
We also discuss his thoughts on traveling to Greece solo - a personal choice he's been contemplating but hasn't yet committed to. I open up about my own regret of not choosing myself when I wanted to study overseas in Italy. That decision still bothers me tI did travel to Italy, but never did it the way I really wanted to.
This conversation is perfect for anyone struggling between choosing themselves versus making choices others approve of. When we prioritize what truly resonates with us rather than what's well-regarded by others, we often discover new paths to growth.
What decisions have been calling you that involve choosing yourself? Remember that the choices constantly nudging us are often the ones we need to make, even if we don't fully understand why yet.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
So in this episode, I'm really excited.
(00:01):
Cause as you can see, I'm not by myself,
I'm with one of my longest.
Closest friends, dim, I'm really excited.
His name's Dimitri Kyvetos.
He's a hairdresser, really good one.
So check him out, but onlyif you're in Australia
or not
Yeah.
Cause you can travel.
I can.
I haven't, but I could.
He's done some
fancy people.
(00:21):
Some, yes.
okay, so he's joining me on this episode.
I love that
you used the word fancy.
So in this episode, or thesetwo episodes we're recording
together, I'm really excited.
We're going to talk about, Makingdecisions, choosing something
that really feels right for you.
I suppose we're just going to talkabout our experiences with that.
You know, I went and calculatedhow long we've been friends
(00:43):
for, but I can't remember how
Well, since grade 3.
Now we're 33, almost 34.
So we've been friends likeover 25 years, roughly.
So let's get into this first episode.
So Dim and I had a conversationrecently and it was so good.
We were talking about.
a decision that he's been thinkingabout, which was to go to Greece solo.
the reason that I was like, he,like we sort of got into this topic
(01:05):
was because I was telling him abouthow I went to my therapist I was
telling her how I was going to dothis year of doing the opposite.
And I was like, I'm goingto prioritize my podcast.
I'm just going to do it.
I'm not going to go back and study.
I'm just going to make a different choice.
And she was like, I lovewhen she rips out stuff.
And I went to her the other day andI was like, do you find like that
you get really frustrated becauseyou know something, but it takes
(01:28):
people like three years to realize.
Cause that's what Ifeel like happened here.
And she laughed and she was like, yeah,you tend to go for the option that is like
more well regarded, better recognized.
Like by your family or by yourloved ones, instead of doing what
truly like you want to do, whatresonates, what brings you joy.
And I was like, Oh, okay.
I feel like that's astory of our lives though.
So when I went to Dim and Iwas talking to him about it.
(01:51):
He was like, actually, I've beenthinking about traveling to Greece solo.
And the reason that I thought this was areally good conversation was because this
isn't the first time you've had this idea.
Like is it?
No, it's not.
I was like It's not right We've spokenabout this before and that's why I
was like, oh, that's the same kindof the same experience I'm having
where I keep trying to make thisdecision and do it in a way that I feel
(02:13):
like I don't know, more acceptable.
Like with the podcast, I would alwaysgo back and study and use this as a
side hustle but never give it a hundredpercent because I didn't feel like it
was, you know, it's just an odd decision.
Like when people say, what do you do?
I never say, Oh, I have a podcast.
Cause I feel like people look at meand they're like, what do you mean?
Why?
It's 2025.
(02:34):
I know, but can you imagine me sayingto my grandparents, I'm not going to go
study.
in your family and the wayyou've been brought up,
It's not a good enough job.
No, but it's not even a job.
but it can be.
Yeah.
And I think that's the thing.
That's why I think it resonatesbecause we do come from similar
experiences in that sense.
Like an old school culture.
Dimitri comes from a Greek family.
(02:56):
I'm Italian.
So I feel like there aresimilarities there in terms of
what they think is acceptable.
expectations.
The highest standards.
I do want to share somethingwith you that came up while I was
thinking about this episode, becauseas we get started, when you said,
I'm used to talking to myself.
Okay.
(03:17):
So when I was thinking about thisepisode, I was thinking about, I
don't know if I ever told you, Iwanted to travel by myself and study
overseas in Italy and I never did.
Yeah.
talking to you, I have just beenthinking about it so much and
how much I regret not going.
And I read this really interesting thing.
That's what I want like to be thebasis of this, I suppose, because
(03:38):
we're going to talk about otherdecisions you've made that may not
have been like super supported.
But I read in the short term, weregret the things we do, but in the
long run we regret the things we don'tdo more than the things we did do.
Does that make sense?
Yeah, absolutely.
Sorry.
Yeah.
I want to talk about not just this Greecedecision, but we did touch on It's not
(03:59):
Do you reckon you can decide here?
Well, it's interesting.
Like everything you just said hasmade me feel like you're right.
Like if you take all the fearand everything out of it,
you just think to yourself.
Why not?
You know?
Yeah.
That's the most important thing.
I just felt like I wanted to tellyou that because out of everything,
that decision bothers me the most.
(04:21):
And I think it's because like all theother stuff I've wanted to do, like
even this podcast, I've kind of done it,never given it like a thousand percent,
which I'm doing this year, I just feellike that's something that I really,
really wanted to do that I didn't do.
And it reminds me of you onlybecause, like, I did go to Italy.
I did travel with friends.
I did go there, but I didn'tdo it the way I wanted to.
(04:41):
And I regret that.
So.
Before we get to Greece and what you'rethinking in that sense, I did want
to touch on, I suppose, making thosedecisions that are really hard to make
because they don't really, like yousaid, there's expectations around them.
They don't align with like our family'sexpectations or their thinking.
And when we were talking about that,you mentioned two big decisions, which
(05:02):
was the first one when you moved jobs.
And the second one was when you, Decidedto move again to work for yourself, right?
So talk me through the first decision.
So when you, so talk me through the firsttime when you made the decision to move
to Joey Scandizzo Salon, what happened asyou were making that decision in terms of
your thinking, other people's thinking,their feedback, like your family,
(05:25):
Well, I mean, it was one of thosethings where when I first started
doing what I do now, hairdressing,I feel like I was at a place where
I have to, I had to start somewhere.
So what was easiest for me was, youknow, to sort of stay somewhat local,
which was only like two suburbs away.
(05:47):
And I started there and I startedwith work experience in high school.
And then from there Igot a job in the salon.
And then from there, thatwas, that was local already.
So I sort of stayed in those groundsaround that area and I wasn't
happy where I was initially doing.
(06:07):
job that I was doing at 17, justlike sweeping up hair, making
coffees, but being in the industry.
and then, moving to another salon,which I thought was a better
salon and somewhere that I'd gettreated a little bit nicer as well.
And then, working there, Istarted my, apprenticeship there.
through, I guess, learning hair andunderstanding the career and, The big
(06:33):
people in the career, Joey I wantedto be just like him and I wanted,
I was like, I have to work there.
I really want to work there.
It's one of the best salons in Melbourne.
I love the style of work thatthey did and produced and.
All the photoshoots they would do and Ifound it so inspiring, you know, but I
also didn't have a license at the time.
Oh, I didn't realize.
it was one of the big factors as to whyI didn't go and work at Joey's sooner.
(06:58):
Oh.
to get my license at 21,
Yeah.
so that I could drive myself to workrather than have to catch transport.
Oh have taken so long.
So the biggest reason why I movedis because I felt like I had learnt
all my foundations from my first joband she taught me everything I know.
Yeah.
Um, all the, but like ina more technical manner.
(07:21):
and then when I got the job atJoey's, I was hired without having
to do any training or anything.
that was a real true testament to whata great boss I had in Moonee Ponds.
yeah, that's a good point.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Cause she
taught me.
Like so much
like
precision and all that sort ofstuff, which I'll never forget.
(07:42):
Like when I went and did mytrial at Joey's and I cut a bob,
you cut your mom's hair.
I cut my mom's hair.
Yes.
I remember that.
Yeah.
I remember that.
it was all in the right timing, you know,and then, yeah, I'll never forget when
I did that trial and one of the owners,Joseph, he actually looked over my haircut
and he goes, mate, your bob's perfect.
Like, I actually can't fault it.
And then when they metme and they saw my work.
(08:03):
You
are that vibe.
They were like.
Oh, wow.
You actually shocked
me.
Yeah, yeah.
You know?
Yeah.
And I got the job straight off the bat.
So that, I suppose that decision feltlike, like you said, you were ready.
You were more aligned.
Like, how did you, how did youfeel that went with your family?
Because that was like, itwas really, it's a big step.
Look, I don't think it was like theend of the world, but my parents,
(08:24):
I do remember having conversationswith me being like, are you sure
this is where you want to work?
You know, have you taken theconsideration, the travel time?
You know, and getting to work,getting home, working late, late
nights and all that sort of stuff,you know, and like putting that, I
guess, negative vibe into the place.
(08:45):
I really want it to be, youknow, but that's, I guess it's
been my upbringing anyway.
You know, everything's tread with caution.
And that's, that's the thing.
I think that's the, like the mostimportant part of this episode.
Because I feel likethat's where it gets us.
when we get talked out of things,but it's good that you didn't when
you heard that, did it give you asense of unease or were you just
(09:06):
like, no, this is what I need to do.
It was, I guess my mind was a lot clearerthen as well, like, in where I wanted
to be, what I wanted to do, so like,I'm still that person, like, I'm very
determined if there's something I reallywant to do, or I really want to buy, or
whatever it is, I will make sure I get it.
That's good, that's good It is good.
(09:26):
Yeah, it's good that youdon't get talked out of it.
It is good, but I feel like theI always get talked out of it.
Yeah.
Nah, you shouldn't.
You shouldn't,
but that's why that's what, like, it'sgood to hear what's happening for you.
So you were just like, no,this is, this is right.
This is for me.
So when they did, like when yourparents did say that, do you remember
some of the things that you said back?
I don't really remember specifics, but Idefinitely remember like sitting on the
(09:48):
Island bench having these conversationsand both my mom and dad and my dad being.
He's super Greek self beinglike, you know, are you crazy?
We're going to go all the way over there.
Why do you need to be over there forwhy don't you just stay where you are
and be content with where you are.
All you want is changeall the time, you know?
(10:09):
And I'm like,
progress,
It's not just
about change.
And one thing he always say to me and hestill does is because I like to change
things and change my environment and.
I mean, I shouldn't say that because Istill have the same environment, but you
know, I think, I think I like to dreamand imagine where life could be, you
(10:32):
know, but because of our upbringing, myfamily seemed to think I'm quite unstable,
but it's not actually
being unstable.
It's just about wanting to grow anddevelop and move forward in your life
and
because it's not the way.
I've been brought up tobelieve is the right path.
Yeah.
I think that's
(10:53):
That just hits a nail on the head
it's what they think is the rightpath for you, not what you feel
is the right path for yourself.
And they're less about change too, right?
Like both your parents, bless them,beautiful people, like seriously.
Yeah.
Love your mom.
No, they are.
But, but also I think it'sjust a cultural thing too.
Like.
Absolutely.
They did the same work.
They stayed.
It was like my family too.
my mom, my grandparents, everything.
(11:13):
They stayed in the sortof the same jobs for ages.
They were just really content withwhat they did or not necessarily
always content, but they didn't change.
No.
Or they didn't want that change.
I suppose.
Yeah.
That's a really interesting point.
But
they're probably, our parents haveprobably been influenced by their parents.
Yeah.
Sure.
And I think when you.
Look back at your grandparents.
They came to Australia for a better lifeand they got a job or they opened their
(11:38):
own business or whatever it is, right?
And they just worked hard
to
have money and save everything andset themselves up for their kids.
You know?
So our parents have learnt that.
Yeah.
And then they project that onto us.
And then when we'relike we've got options.
We don't need to
(11:58):
just stay
in that one, uh, line of work,
you
know, we can, we can change.
Like if you don't want to dothat anymore, that's fine.
Like you can go do somethingelse, you know, where that's like.
off the track, you know, for
them, it's very, it's, it's avery different way of thinking.
But then I was listening to, GaborMate recently, and he was talking
(12:19):
about attachment versus authenticity.
So we choose, instead of choosing what'sreally like, who we are, like a decision
that really reflects us, we go with.
Again, what's going tocontinue that connection?
Because the challenge is when we approachour parents or grandparents or family
with an idea or something that we'redoing and they come back to us with
(12:40):
feedback, that's like, this probably isn'ta good idea or why are you doing this?
It creates a fear of disconnectionor it causes disconnection.
So most of us tend to avoid makingthose decisions because or avoid.
You know, taking that chancebecause we don't want to
experience that disconnection.
And I know that's a thing for me.
Like I really, when I think aboutthat, making, trying to make that
(13:00):
decision to go study overseas,everyone talked me out of it.
Everybody, everybodywas like, don't do it.
You shouldn't do it.
It's not safe.
And I'll get so paranoid.
Like it's not safe.
I was 21 at the time, but I stillfeel like I should have gone.
No, you totally should have gone.
That's why when I, yeah, so I justthink that's, so it's really good that
you were able to, I think, stick toyour own guns and like do what you
(13:23):
needed to do when it came to moving.
Because really that was a big move.
It was.
You didn't
know anyone in that area.
It was like a whole new set of stuff,a whole new, like a whole new area,
whole new vibe to really, like youwent from like a sort of an amazing
salon, but a more local salon to likea huge one, like one of Melbourne's.
Almost elite.
Yeah.
Yeah.
You know, I
think that's so great.
(13:44):
it was a great place to work.
Great opportunities came from that.
I met some amazing people.
I'm still, you know, veryfriendly with my ex bosses.
Oh, that's good.
They still respect me and Irespect them and, you know,
there's no hard feelings there.
Like, if I wanted to ever go backthere and work, I know the door would
always be open for me no matter when.
(14:05):
That's so good.
You know?
I'm going to pause it because now I'm
Okay.
So you mentioned that like, so you left,Oh no, sorry, I've jumped the gun there.
So you spoke about Joey's thatyou guys are on a really, like
(14:27):
you're left in a really good place.
So you decided to leave Joey's.
So that's the next decision becauseI feel like out of the ones you've
made or are going to make or you'rethinking about that we're talking
about today, this was a big one becauseyou decided to work for yourself.
So like that's.
It's, it's amazing.
so talk me through that.
what, what happened there?
(14:48):
the process of the decision.
So you were like, okay,I need to make a change.
And then what happened with your family?
So I think, that one was unexpectedone, probably sooner than I thought.
And that wasn't for any reasonother than the fact that I felt
like I had personally completed myjourney working in that environment.
(15:11):
Yep.
You know, I did it for justunder four years, I believe.
Oh wow,
yep.
It was like three yearsand like nine months
Yeah.
I felt like I had been.
I felt like, I actually feltlike I was completely burnt out
and
that I had just done everythingthat I felt I needed to do for
my career, for my own, liking interms of style and stuff like that.
(15:32):
And what I wanted to do.
I wasn't really interested infurthering myself with that company.
Yeah.
And the way they did it too,like, which is fair, yeah.
And the way like the competition.
Nothing wrong with it.
You just, yeah.
Yeah.
Like I didn't want to dothe competitions anymore.
Yeah.
And the way that they did ittoo, like the competition.
doing and assisting at photoshoots and stuff like that.
(15:53):
So like I enjoyed it for what it was, butI think I was just, and it's not that,
I mean, I do lots of photo shoots nowand I enjoy them, but it's a different.
It's a different sort of relationship thatI have with the photo shoots for myself.
You know, like I actually likethem, but back then, I think
because I was so burnt out.
(16:13):
Yeah.
You didn't, I just didn't, I just didn't
want to do anything.
I was just over it.
I just remember that there was a coupleof times where, you know, I didn't have a
client for example, and I'd be standing atthe front desk with a receptionist and I'd
just be staring at the window and I wasLike, all these people walking past, all
these cars driving past, what do they do?
there must be,
(16:33):
there must be more to life than workinghere all day, every day in these four
walls, you know, and feeling trapped.
Like, I felt that was all my lifewas driving to work, driving home,
driving to work, driving home.
And I'm a very social person,you know, and during the week I
could only catch up with friends.
(16:54):
Once or twice a week, the rest of thetime I was working late, you know,
and then on the weekends, obviously Icould see my friends and stuff, but it
was, I just felt like I was trapped.
You felt
more confined.
So I had to get out.
Yeah.
I had
to make that decision to get out.
It was a very difficult decisionbecause I felt like I was going to
let go of the best thing that I.
(17:16):
Yeah.
It's a bit against the grain when youthink of the natural way people would
have gone about something like that.
Yeah.
Not that that's right.
I'm
just saying like, you know what I mean?
Yeah.
But yeah, I had to let it go and,it was a very scary decision.
but I just thought to myself, I'm justgoing to look, I've got the space at
home and I will just figure it out, take.
(17:39):
a leap of faith.
Yeah.
And yeah, I literally, I was very,yeah, it was very scary though.
You know?
Yeah.
Talk me through that.
Like it was literally, I justhad a challenging experience.
It was just, you just haveto take a leap of faith.
And I just thought, you knowwhat, whatever it is, it is.
I had put in my mind, worst case scenario,I'm going to be working from home.
(18:01):
And I might have five clients, ifthat, a week, what am I going to make?
200? Well, I'm going tohave to figure it out.
Like I'll work it out.
Yeah.
You know?
And I literally just did that andI thought, and worst, worst case
scenario, like everyone was sayingto me, everyone, meaning clients,
friends, family, you know, everyonewas like, the worst thing it is, the
(18:22):
worst thing that happens is they toldyou, you can go back whenever you want.
Worst thing that happensis I'll just go back there.
Yeah.
Okay.
So, and I think that's,what's gotten me through.
Oh yeah?
Okay.
Yeah.
I just sort of think tomyself, I'm very much, I'm very
negative in my own mind, right?
Oh,
so am I. I can be, yeah.
And again, I think it'sour upbringing, you know?
(18:44):
We always focus on the hard negatives.
Yeah.
And the what ifs and the but and thethis and the that and the list goes on.
You're just so out of
place a lot.
Yeah.
Like, yeah.
But I think, I think when you reallyjust think about, you know, What's the
worst that's going to happen and youliterally think it could be amazing?
You're going to go back to what you knew.
That's so funny.
You said that cause that wasliterally the process that I
(19:05):
just thought of with the podcast.
I go to Ryan.
I'm just going to go giveit a hundred percent.
And if it doesn't work,I'll just go back and study.
There's no, like, you know what I mean?
Yeah.
But I
was like, but also like, what have Ilost in the grand scheme of things?
And he was like, yeah, well he, he waslike, I've been telling you this for ages,
but I am feel still so much that that'ssomething I still really struggle with.
(19:27):
So that's why when you said that,I was like, that's exactly what
I do.
Yeah.
I really do believe that your passion forwhat you do, passion will take you places.
And you've always had that.
You've always been clearon that from a young age.
And that's why I can honestly, that'sone thing I can believe in for sure.
(19:47):
You know, like if you're passionate, Iwas way more passionate about what I do.
At 19 years old and 24 atthose ages, I was far more
passionate than what I am now.
Oh really?
Absolutely.
Because you've been doing it for so long.
Like I know why the back of my hand,you know, but that passion got me my
first job at my first job in the, MooneePonds, sweeping hair and making coffees.
(20:14):
They offered me a job throughwork experience, right?
Then it got me that second job.
in Mooney Ponds again as an apprentice,you know, and I did that and I knew my
next thing was I wanted to go for thebig guns, like I wanted to go to the top.
did though.
and my passion got me there.
You moved pretty
quickly.
Yeah, and I was reallygood at what I do and that,
(20:36):
yeah, it's
the passion that makesyou good at what you do.
So that's what got me that jobbecause it was a no brainer for them.
Obviously they met me and they were like,
Oh wow.
You can do really good work.
You're very good at what you do.
Of course we're going to give him a job.
Hey, you know what?
You know, it's really weird.
I've known you for so long and Idon't actually, and it's funny.
Cause like I was so lucky growingup cause you were my go to really
(21:00):
lucky cause you're really good.
But I'm just thinking, whendid you actually realize
that hair was your passion?
Because I know it sort ofjust always was with you.
I think as a kid, to be honest, likeI feel like as a kid, I was always
into hair and I was always interestedin people's hair and how it looked.
(21:20):
Yeah.
And I mean, I always like what'sbeautiful and what looks beautiful.
Yeah, you do.
You've got a
great sense of style.
I always thought you'd get into fashion.
Well, that's what I originally, that'swhat I actually left Joey's to do.
That's right!
I remember because we hada conversation about that.
You wanted to start a label.
Yeah.
And
I was like, that is so you.
Yeah.
You could really do that.
(21:40):
Do you think that'ssomething you would ever do?
My three passions in
life were, clothing and fashion.
Yeah.
And hair and interiors.
Yeah.
Oh, interiors is another one.
Yeah.
do you see yourself?
Like I suppose the thing is, whichis really interesting because you can
have a passion, but obviously it cansort of move into different areas.
Like you said, that hair is one andthen you've got fashion interiors.
(22:02):
Do you ever see yourself movinginto another one of those?
Absolutely.
I see you in fashion.
I see myself in something todo with clothing for sure.
Yeah.
But
you know, that would be thenext chapter down the track.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I see what
you're saying.
It depends.
Like, I mean, yeah, it's hard becauseagain, like as you get older, as
you're aware, like you didn't goto Italy because you stayed home
(22:22):
and look at what you have now.
You have two beautiful kids, you'vegot a husband, you've got your own
home, all those sort of things.
Like if you had.
Taken that
I didn't know where itd be gone to
Italy and studied, youprobably might have been there,
or I could have justcome back and hated it.
Correct.
That's what I thought about the other day.
I was like, I could have just come backand hated it and it would've been fine,
but do you know what I think it is?
This is the month you want to touch on
(22:43):
Now at your age andwhere you're at in life.
That ship has kind of sailed for you.
Do you know what I mean?
Absolutely, which is why I was like, go
I say, I only say, yeah, but I onlysay kind of, because you never know.
Like you could pick everything up hereand move overseas if you wanted to.
Oh, look, I lived in Italy.
It wasn't what I thought.
But I suppose the conditions in whichI lived there was not what I thought.
(23:04):
But one thing that I will touchon that you just reminded me that
I wanted to bring up as well.
I think too, the thing is, Whenwe make a decision, like, like
what we're talking about, right?
We're making a choice, a life choice,I don't know, maybe changing careers,
changing paths or like choosing togo a different way about our career.
You know, it's really what Ithink separates why I try things
now versus not try things.
(23:26):
One, because of what you said about,being able to go back to what we did.
I read that in the four hour work week.
This guy was like, worst case,you just go back to what you know.
And I was like, yep.
When I was younger, if I came back andI was like, I hated it, I've come back,
I would have heard about it forever.
Do you remember when youdecided to go and you hated it?
Do you remember when I tried to?
(23:46):
And I think that.
So at the time, for me, not onlydid it cause disconnection, but I
felt like I didn't have a sense oflike a safe place to come back to.
Whereas now with my kids, right?
I would be like.
If you want to go travel, go for it.
If you love it, amazing.
Keep going.
If you don't, your home's alwayshere, but I didn't get that.
And I wonder like, if the thing I thinkwith you is you've, you've done that.
(24:09):
Like, even though you've not, I mean,it's not like your family said you
can't come back, you've done thatregardless of having that sense of
safety net especially at the beginning.
So I wonder too, and this is whatI'm going to talk about in the
next part of this conversation.
if we got more of that type of language.
Growing up, would we havemade different choices too?
I think definitely.
I don't know if you would
cause you just killed it.
(24:30):
You just made great choices.
No, I haven't.
See, that's the thing, youlook at me and you know.
I've always thought you're great though.
You think that I'm great and I've doneincredible things and blah, blah, blah.
I look at things that I've doneand I'm like, yeah, okay, whatever.
Like, what did I do?
You know, like, even now working fromhome, I work from home and yes, I've
created a, a business and an image anda profile and all this sort of stuff
(24:53):
that, I never anticipated on happeningat all, just happened organically.
Yeah, it is amazing.
It is if you really think about it, but Idon't see it as being this amazing thing
because it just happened unexpectedly.
You know what I mean?
that was never my intention.
So you never really, when you saidlike you went back home, back to, when
(25:15):
you worked for yourself, you said yourpassion will always like you feel as
though your passions have always carriedyou.. you've never really had a vision
around it though, like a clear one.
You've always kind of gone nextmove, next move, next move.
Not
for my own business, no.
Yeah.
Oh no.
I've
never had a full clear visionas to what exactly am I doing.
Yeah.
I've just sort of rolledwith it and it's kind of just
Do you reckon that's been better though?
Possibly.
(25:35):
Less pressure?
Possibly, but I'm such astructured, organized person.
for most part of my life.
So for me, I guess that's why I don'tsee it as Successful as it is as
what others might perceive it to be.
Yeah, you know because for me Isee it as I've just winged it.
Define
success though.
(25:56):
Cause I look at you and I think thatyou're successful, not only because
of who, like I said, fancy people,but also the fact that you've really
stuck with your passion and that you'vealways shown up, even when it's not
always been easy or super approved ofor recognized, you've always shown up
as yourself and made choices that really
(26:17):
Especially when it comes to yourcareer, I made choices that really
reflect you, even though, for example,looking at it, people would have thought
the move from Joey's to work intoyourself did go backwards, as in, but
for you, it hasn't, you stuck to it.
I don't know if everyone wouldbe able to make that choice.
You know what I'm saying?
Yeah, absolutely.
I think, I mean, I think Idon't think it was my, I really
don't think I went backwards.
(26:38):
I'm not saying you were, I know you did.
Like people would interpret it.
That's what I'm saying.
I'm saying from people's
interpretation of me going backwards,I feel like I disagree with that.
I don't think I went backwards.
I think I went forwards blindly.
But why do you say that as a forward move?
I'm curious, like, not that I don't, I'mjust saying you are thinking behind that.
that's really good.
(26:59):
you're acknowledging.
Yeah.
Okay.
So other people perceive it as this, butfor me, I know what this decision was.
I think because thatclarity around it, like I
always knew and I do knowthat I am good at what I do.
Yeah.
And I'm not saying that in astuck up way whatsoever far.
No, no.
You know, I can be very insecureand I don't give myself.
enough credit at all, but I think that ifI want to change that narrative and I'm
(27:23):
going to say, I am good at what I do, Ithink, you know, moving forward with these
decisions sort of gave me a little bit oflike a ego boost in a way, I guess, like,
you know, like confidence in a better way.
Cause I feel like, yeah,
it gave me the confidence to Justown it and be like, I got this
(27:45):
Like half the things Ilearned and all the extensive.
Knowledge that I learnt, Ilearnt it from work, from my
workplace, you know what I mean?
All the training nights that we used todo that's where I learnt my foundations.
It's helped shape you.
Yeah.
and shaped me to be that person that I cannow stand on my own two feet and I don't
need someone else to back me, you know?
(28:07):
But if I didn't, if I didn't moveforward, I would have still just been,
you know, Dimitri
I always felt like I needed to be myown brand and my own image, you know?
So that's why I just sort of did that.
That makes sense.
that's actually great.
I'm just thinking about whatyou're saying, to be honest.
I'm just sitting with it.
Because one thing that, I talk about andI've learnt myself is, so many of us wait
(28:29):
for the confidence to make those moves.
But it's like a catch 22 becauseyou gain inner confidence or self
esteem from making those choices.
And being really authenticabout them, like, you said, this
is what I need to do for me.
Yeah,
hone in on that.
Okay.
So now let's talk about Greece becauseI feel like this is such a good topic.
(28:49):
Because you've shown your authenticityand power in these choices that you made.
That was something that I thinkyou've said is against the grain
or not what people expected orthought was an ideal situation.
you and I were having a conversationthe other day and you were talking
to me about Greece and I waslike, just go, just go and do it.
And you said I was the only person so farthat had really sort of encouraged it.
And I was surprised by that, but alsowhen I look at it, okay, let's just
(29:13):
talk about your thinking behind it.
Like Greece.
Doing it solo reminds me of thispodcast because I feel like you've
gone to Greece, so you haven'tdone it the way you wanted to.
Like I've done the podcast.
I've done it, but I've notdone it the way I wanted to.
And not just that, but
like you wanted to go to, you've been toItaly multiple times, but you've never
done it the way you imagined to do it.
Like eat, pray, love.
(29:34):
I think that's why I'm like, go do itbecause I know how much I regret it.
And that's the thing.
And that's why I feel like there's a hugepart of me that, even though I did go to
Greece and Dubai in 2023, I did go solo,but I wasn't really solo because I met
clients, I met friends, random people,and then I did the most part of my trip
(29:59):
with my best friend and her husband.
You know, I was only really on my own.
Well, on my own for like, what aweek, you know, and every day I had
different clients and friends So Ihad people to go to the beach with,
I had people to go for dinner with.
it was just a matter of getting thereand meeting them wherever they were,
(30:21):
So I wasn't technically on my own,but I guess it's kind of warmed me
up for really wanting to actuallydo it completely on my own.
And I really think that, you know,after having been through, A breakup.
Yeah.
but it is those big life changes.
it is a sense of loss, heartbreak,like those sorts of situations
(30:42):
that actually push us to makethose harder choices sometimes too.
So you're saying that that'sbeen part of the catalyst.
Yeah, definitely part of the catalyst,a hundred percent, you know, and
I feel like, I do need to go and.
get it over and done with anddo it and see how it feels.
Yeah.
You know, like going on your own, figuringthings out on your own, eating dinner on
(31:04):
your own, going to the beach on your own.
Like, yeah.
Well, what else do I mean?
? No, no,
like I think, because that wasmy question I had in my head.
I was like, define solo.
Like as in what does that look like?
because for some people it would begoing there by themselves even if
they're meeting people along the way.
Does that make sense?
So for you, you mean going therebut spending time by yourself
(31:26):
because you've traveled by yourself?
Yes.
But you didn't spendtime by yourself there?
Well, yeah.
2023 I was on.
I traveled there on my own, butI had people there that made
me feel safe and not alone.
You know what I mean?
Because I always had people therethat I was meeting up with, you know,
and then that was only for a week.
So then the rest of the trip, I was withmy best friend and her husband, this
(31:47):
time around, I'm highly considering doingthe whole trip or a part of the trip.
proper solo.
Like I don't know anyone that's goingto be here unless you're here by chance.
Do you know what I mean?
Like, that's how solo I'm talking.
rock up to a country.
Yeah, literally.
Yeah.
You know.
But then if, people know that I'mthere, and there's people around, of
(32:11):
course I'm going to hang out with them.
And make that effort.
But, you know, to actually travel.
actively
seeking it.
No.
Yeah.
choose some destinations.
And this is where I'm going to be and ifpeople happen to be there, then great.
So what makes you think, or why doyou think you haven't done that yet?
Like as in, you mentioned that you'vetraveled, that you've had, you've had
this idea of wanting to travel this way.
(32:32):
Why haven't, why, like, what do you reckonis like, how'd you back from, from that?
I think, my insecurities for sure.
Okay.
I am a very social person, soThat fear of being alone is really
daunting, like really daunting.
but I also think I was a lot younger then.
I was like, you
(32:52):
should have kids.
Not so
daunting then.
You would probably love to be on your own.
When you're like, that
sounds daunting, I'm like It does not.
As I was saying, you'd probably bekilled to have a week by yourself.
I love
my kids but yeah.
Life's a break.
So I feel like it would be a reallygood experience to just face your fear.
(33:14):
and I can tick that off mybucket list that yes, I have
traveled solo and not be our age.
Like when you wanted to do it at 21?
I think, 18, 19.
It was between 18 and 21.
I can't remember exactly,but yeah, I was at uni.
And I was like, I'll go study.
Do my own thing.
be by myself.
Not be able to be that age nowand be like, I never did it.
(33:34):
like this is my lastopportunity to be able to say.
I did it.
You know what I mean?
I think if you're in a place inyour life where you feel like this,
you don't know if this part ofyour life is going to happen again.
I don't know what the future holds for me.
I don't know whether I'll end up inanother relationship or whether I won't
or what's around the corner anymore.
You know where you areright now and this is
the time you feel like is idealto make that choice, which is
(33:56):
probably why you're thinking somuch about it now it's coming up.
I think it's what I need as well, justto feel like I've got a full fresh start.
Okay.
So the idea is to, by givingyourself that space, you're going
to come back in a different mindset.
Hopefully, yeah.
I'm not just partying andgetting drunk every day.
but you know what?
it could be a bit of that.
It could be a bit of like, youknow, it's like eat, pray, love.
it was so, the threeparts were so different.
(34:18):
you don't know what it's going tolook like, but I think it's the idea
that you're willing to explore it ina way that you've been wanting to.
You haven't made thedecision yet, have you?
No.
When do you reckon, when's thelatest you have to make it by
because of flights and whatever?
Well, I mean, you can make it as lateas you want, but I'm again, organized.
So like, I have to justsuss a couple of things out.
Cause work as
Yeah, with work
(34:38):
and yeah, hopefully by the end of, Nextmonth for sure I have to have booked and
organized where I'm going to go at least.
Yeah.
This is interesting because you madesuch big, like huge choices, like
that seemed trickier compared tothis one, but then this one's the
one that's been hard, do you reckon?
Absolutely.
What do you think?
That's exactly right.
leaving my job and moving to workfor myself and start my own business
(35:01):
and however that was going to look.
I don't see that anywhere near asscary as, Getting on an aeroplane,
travelling to the other side ofthe world, and being by myself.
I find that way more fearfulthan opening your own business.
Isn't that interesting?
Why do you think that is?
a security thing.
It just hits a part that's really justnot comfortable travelling by yourself.
(35:26):
you're on the other side of the world.
Like, yeah, you're opening a business butyou've still got all your friends, you've
got your family, you've got everybody,and there's a sense of stability and
security around that, even thoughthey're not the ones doing it for you.
You feel like you've got thatsupport, you know, physically.
I'm going to ask a hard question.
Do you think it's because you're goingto have so much time with yourself?
Do you think that's one of thereasons why the decision is hard?
(35:47):
Is
that your hard question?
Yeah.
That's the easy
question.
That's exactly why, I've never been onmy own for that long ever in my life.
Are you scared of what'sgoing to come up in that time?
the thoughts, the feelings, theexperiences in terms of like, it's
(36:08):
not just that you're by yourselfphysically, but also what's going
to come up while you're by yourself.
Does that make sense?
Like people avoid being by themselves.
already feel like, I mean, when I am onmy own now, I do suffer a bit of anxiety.
And a bit panic attack andall that sort of stuff.
yeah.
Okay.
I feel like everyone does to an extent.
Yeah, for sure.
know what's a natural
emotion, really.
Yeah.
And
(36:29):
when I am on my own, Idon't like being on my own.
I hate being on my own.
But making a decision to actuallygo and be on your own is like
the only thing holding me back.
otherwise I would've booked itand already decided, oh yeah, I'm
gonna go here, I'm gonna go there.
I'm so scared of being by myself andwaking up by myself, going to the
beach by myself, and seeing peoplearound in their groups of friends
(36:52):
and whatnot, and you're by yourself.
and
just this sense of judgment,like, why are you by yourself?
Cause
I look at people that are by themselvesI think why are they by themselves?
And then I make my own stories in my headas to why they might be by themselves.
but I also, I actually also admire them.
Yeah, I do.
I feel like, I think that's such a,
you're so strong and courageous.
(37:13):
and comfortable with yourself thatyou can sit there, no problem.
Yeah.
And eat by yourself
I remember the first time I did that.
It shows a lot
of confidence.
It
shows a lot of, yes, confidence,self esteem, self worth.
Like you're not botheredby being by yourself.
you're okay to sit and eat by yourself.
I suppose too, in the culture thatwe're in, That's also really uncommon
(37:34):
because we're so interconnectedand in that mindset of, you
know, who did you travel with?
Where did you go?
How big was the travel?
Like to go somewhere by yourselfis the idea of it is daunting,
absolutely.
But
I completely get why you'd wantto do it a hundred percent.
I feel like it's worth it.
It's one of those hard decisions thatends up bringing in a lot of growth.
I think that's honestly alsowhy I really want to do it.
(37:56):
Like you said, growth.
I think that's the biggest keyword, sincebeing single again, I feel like I've
done a lot of self reflection, and I'verealized lots of things about myself I
think, you know, if you don't put yourselfin vulnerable situations to grow and learn
from, you'll just always stay the same.
Yeah.
(38:16):
And I think I admire somany people that are.
So confident.
I admire that guy sitting at acafe by himself having lunch.
And I think, wow, like good on you.
And I also think, why are you by yourself?
Like you're on your lunchbreak, what's your situation?
It's a physical representationof that person being comfortable
sitting with themselves.
(38:37):
And I think in terms
of moving forward in your life, I reallythink I admire that in people generally
and I definitely want to, would wanta partner that's like that, you know.
So I feel like you have to become,not you have to, but I think it's
important for you to understand and.
Be a reflection of whatyou want to attract.
(38:57):
Yeah.
And so you're saying from therelationship, you recognize some important
things that you want to change, I suppose,or I, and I get what you're saying.
Work
on.
I think I want to work on.
And the idea is like, you want tomeet someone, but you know that
to meet someone, you need to meetthat in yourself sort of thing.
Does that make sense?
I think it's really good that you'reeven thinking about this choice.
(39:18):
it's sounds like it's the right time tobe making it and you're recognizing that.
I think you'll do it.
I have a feeling you'll do it.
I feel like.
we'll do an update episodewhen you come back.
I'll be like, what was it like?
Everybody go away.
Everybody travel.
I feel like that'll be a great episodebecause it's just so interesting
how, these huge decisions thatyou've made really chosen yourself.
(39:41):
And then this one, which to other people,again, like everybody's different.
I completely get it.
Like I do.
Whereas I would have probably, well,I didn't make the choice, so I can't.
No.
So I get it.
I just think it's really interesting,the different types of choices that
we have, the way we go about makingthem, and what I suppose stops us
or encourages us from making them.
(40:04):
Yeah.
So we're going to do an update on this.
I'm going to end this here because Ifeel like this is the cliffhanger, But
if you don't, it's still a process.
It's still interesting tohear your thinking around it.
And that's still an important choice.
I honestly think I will.
Yeah.
And I only say
I will because I think I've put so much.
It's like calling you.
Yeah.
I really feel like my instinctis telling me I have to do this.
(40:27):
Yeah.
If I don't do it.
I'll be more pissed offand disappointed in myself.
that I didn't just You know, surrenderto the fact that you just do it.
And that's a thing.
Yeah, that's a thing.
But it's like, what
have I got to
lose?
But it's also about those decisions thatconstantly call us to do it a certain way.
(40:48):
We know we need to do it a certainway for what we might not know why,
but we know and we just don't do it.
And that's, I think was also the importantpart of this episode, normalizing that,
recognizing it, talking about it, sharingyour experience around it so that other
people can recognize that process inthemselves and see, I suppose, where
they want to make a different choice.
I just think going back to that stat ofus regretting the things that we don't
(41:13):
do more than the things we did do, likeif I had gone and it was shit, it would
have been really hard coming back andhearing other people's experiences.
Feedback on that but I would have known.
Yeah, that's right.
So I wouldn't
have regretted it.
Whereas now, it's like that's why
You have to do these things to knowwhether it's for you or whether it's not
for you I have one client in particularAnd I remember her telling me that she
(41:38):
had gone and she had traveled solo andshe had planned to do two months On a
solo trip to really just go experienceEurope and do everything she wanted to do.
she went on her own.
She lasted, I think it was three weeks.
And she was like, this is just not for me.
I can't stand being on my own.
(41:58):
I'm not enjoying this.
And she booked a flightand came back home.
But for
her,
She knew that this was just not for me.
But there's power in that too.
Like you've done it andthen you've made the choice.
But that's the thing.
you just don't know,
what your experience is going tobe and if you really love it or
you don't, and either way is fine,
But I think you need to know.
Whether it's for you or not.
And I think too, sometimes those typesof decisions can be hard because we
(42:22):
expect to always enjoy the outcome.
That's right.
something I've been thinking aboutlately and you know, it's also about the.
The process.
Yeah.
So like the way of thinking that leadsyou to that point, the way you change and
grow because of that, you might still becomfortable with the fact that you went
and you're like, I'm glad I tried it.
It wasn't for me, but you've at leastmade that choice, recognized it,
(42:42):
stood by what you felt you needed todo at that point and then changed it.
I think that there is a bit of feararound making a mistake, the shame in
coming back and going, I made a mistake.
It wasn't for me.
I think that takes alot of confidence too.
To go, I tried it and it didn't workand it wasn't for me and that's okay.
That's right.
So, stay tuned.
you'd rather, try than not know.
Yeah.
(43:03):
100%. 100%. Otherwise
the question mark willalways be in your head.
Yes.
Absolutely.
And that's
with anything.
I agree.
Hit the nail on the head there.
Need to do it.
If it calls you consistently and youfeel like it's annoying you, Then
it's time to make a move even in somesmall way You might not go for three
months, but even if you did two weeks,it's still Oh, that's what it'll be
(43:24):
I'm not going for like six
months
or anything No, not six monthsAbsolutely not But that's
fine
it's like I'm doing it because I don'tknow where my life's gonna be I do like
going on holidays I do enjoy Going toGreece particularly I love it, I don't
know whether i'm gonna have someone toGo with all the time, so I think it's
(43:44):
important that I Find a way to do it onmy own Yeah, I can go and enjoy my time
on my own whether I'm with someone or not
Yeah, but I feel like this is such agood part of your life I felt like I was
single not for long but single enoughto know I was comfortable in that vibe.
I was comfortable with myself.
I was going to the beach by myself takingmyself on date days, reading by myself.
(44:05):
that was good.
that's what probably gotyou to where you are now.
you needed to be good with that sideof your life in order for you to
then introduce the next chapter ofyour life, which was meeting Ryan
getting married and having children.
And this is that
version of that for you in the sense,like I would go somewhere for a
run by myself or a walk by myself.
Whereas you're like, travelis something that would be
(44:26):
right for me to do by myself.
Yeah, that's good.
Keep me
So in this episode, I'm really excited.
(00:01):
Cause as you can see, I'm not by myself,
I'm with one of my longest.
Closest friends, dim, I'm really excited.
His name's Dimitri Kyvetos.
He's a hairdresser, really good one.
So check him out, but onlyif you're in Australia
or not
Yeah.
Cause you can travel.
I can.
I haven't, but I could.
He's done some
fancy people.
(00:21):
Some, yes.
okay, so he's joining me on this episode.
I love that
you used the word fancy.
So in this episode, or thesetwo episodes we're recording
together, I'm really excited.
We're going to talk about, Makingdecisions, choosing something
that really feels right for you.
I suppose we're just going to talkabout our experiences with that.
You know, I went and calculatedhow long we've been friends
(00:43):
for, but I can't remember how
Well, since grade 3.
Now we're 33, almost 34.
So we've been friends likeover 25 years, roughly.
So let's get into this first episode.
So Dim and I had a conversationrecently and it was so good.
We were talking about.
a decision that he's been thinkingabout, which was to go to Greece solo.
the reason that I was like, he,like we sort of got into this topic
(01:05):
was because I was telling him abouthow I went to my therapist I was
telling her how I was going to dothis year of doing the opposite.
And I was like, I'm goingto prioritize my podcast.
I'm just going to do it.
I'm not going to go back and study.
I'm just going to make a different choice.
And she was like, I lovewhen she rips out stuff.
And I went to her the other day andI was like, do you find like that
you get really frustrated becauseyou know something, but it takes
(01:28):
people like three years to realize.
Cause that's what Ifeel like happened here.
And she laughed and she was like, yeah,you tend to go for the option that is like
more well regarded, better recognized.
Like by your family or by yourloved ones, instead of doing what
truly like you want to do, whatresonates, what brings you joy.
And I was like, Oh, okay.
I feel like that's astory of our lives though.
So when I went to Dim and Iwas talking to him about it.
(01:51):
He was like, actually, I've beenthinking about traveling to Greece solo.
And the reason that I thought this was areally good conversation was because this
isn't the first time you've had this idea.
Like is it?
No, it's not.
I was like It's not right We've spokenabout this before and that's why I
was like, oh, that's the same kindof the same experience I'm having
where I keep trying to make thisdecision and do it in a way that I feel
(02:13):
like I don't know, more acceptable.
Like with the podcast, I would alwaysgo back and study and use this as a
side hustle but never give it a hundredpercent because I didn't feel like it
was, you know, it's just an odd decision.
Like when people say, what do you do?
I never say, Oh, I have a podcast.
Cause I feel like people look at meand they're like, what do you mean?
Why?
It's 2025.
(02:34):
I know, but can you imagine me sayingto my grandparents, I'm not going to go
study.
in your family and the wayyou've been brought up,
It's not a good enough job.
No, but it's not even a job.
but it can be.
Yeah.
And I think that's the thing.
That's why I think it resonatesbecause we do come from similar
experiences in that sense.
Like an old school culture.
Dimitri comes from a Greek family.
(02:56):
I'm Italian.
So I feel like there aresimilarities there in terms of
what they think is acceptable.
expectations.
The highest standards.
I do want to share somethingwith you that came up while I was
thinking about this episode, becauseas we get started, when you said,
I'm used to talking to myself.
Okay.
(03:17):
So when I was thinking about thisepisode, I was thinking about, I
don't know if I ever told you, Iwanted to travel by myself and study
overseas in Italy and I never did.
Yeah.
talking to you, I have just beenthinking about it so much and
how much I regret not going.
And I read this really interesting thing.
That's what I want like to be thebasis of this, I suppose, because
(03:38):
we're going to talk about otherdecisions you've made that may not
have been like super supported.
But I read in the short term, weregret the things we do, but in the
long run we regret the things we don'tdo more than the things we did do.
Does that make sense?
Yeah, absolutely.
Sorry.
Yeah.
I want to talk about not just this Greecedecision, but we did touch on It's not
(03:59):
Do you reckon you can decide here?
Well, it's interesting.
Like everything you just said hasmade me feel like you're right.
Like if you take all the fearand everything out of it,
you just think to yourself.
Why not?
You know?
Yeah.
That's the most important thing.
I just felt like I wanted to tellyou that because out of everything,
that decision bothers me the most.
(04:21):
And I think it's because like all theother stuff I've wanted to do, like
even this podcast, I've kind of done it,never given it like a thousand percent,
which I'm doing this year, I just feellike that's something that I really,
really wanted to do that I didn't do.
And it reminds me of you onlybecause, like, I did go to Italy.
I did travel with friends.
I did go there, but I didn'tdo it the way I wanted to.
(04:41):
And I regret that.
So.
Before we get to Greece and what you'rethinking in that sense, I did want
to touch on, I suppose, making thosedecisions that are really hard to make
because they don't really, like yousaid, there's expectations around them.
They don't align with like our family'sexpectations or their thinking.
And when we were talking about that,you mentioned two big decisions, which
(05:02):
was the first one when you moved jobs.
And the second one was when you, Decidedto move again to work for yourself, right?
So talk me through the first decision.
So when you, so talk me through the firsttime when you made the decision to move
to Joey Scandizzo Salon, what happened asyou were making that decision in terms of
your thinking, other people's thinking,their feedback, like your family,
(05:25):
Well, I mean, it was one of thosethings where when I first started
doing what I do now, hairdressing,I feel like I was at a place where
I have to, I had to start somewhere.
So what was easiest for me was, youknow, to sort of stay somewhat local,
which was only like two suburbs away.
(05:47):
And I started there and I startedwith work experience in high school.
And then from there Igot a job in the salon.
And then from there, thatwas, that was local already.
So I sort of stayed in those groundsaround that area and I wasn't
happy where I was initially doing.
(06:07):
job that I was doing at 17, justlike sweeping up hair, making
coffees, but being in the industry.
and then, moving to another salon,which I thought was a better
salon and somewhere that I'd gettreated a little bit nicer as well.
And then, working there, Istarted my, apprenticeship there.
through, I guess, learning hair andunderstanding the career and, The big
(06:33):
people in the career, Joey I wantedto be just like him and I wanted,
I was like, I have to work there.
I really want to work there.
It's one of the best salons in Melbourne.
I love the style of work thatthey did and produced and.
All the photoshoots they would do and Ifound it so inspiring, you know, but I
also didn't have a license at the time.
Oh, I didn't realize.
it was one of the big factors as to whyI didn't go and work at Joey's sooner.
(06:58):
Oh.
to get my license at 21,
Yeah.
so that I could drive myself to workrather than have to catch transport.
Oh have taken so long.
So the biggest reason why I movedis because I felt like I had learnt
all my foundations from my first joband she taught me everything I know.
Yeah.
Um, all the, but like ina more technical manner.
(07:21):
and then when I got the job atJoey's, I was hired without having
to do any training or anything.
that was a real true testament to whata great boss I had in Moonee Ponds.
yeah, that's a good point.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Cause she
taught me.
Like so much
like
precision and all that sort ofstuff, which I'll never forget.
(07:42):
Like when I went and did mytrial at Joey's and I cut a bob,
you cut your mom's hair.
I cut my mom's hair.
Yes.
I remember that.
Yeah.
I remember that.
it was all in the right timing, you know,and then, yeah, I'll never forget when
I did that trial and one of the owners,Joseph, he actually looked over my haircut
and he goes, mate, your bob's perfect.
Like, I actually can't fault it.
And then when they metme and they saw my work.
(08:03):
You
are that vibe.
They were like.
Oh, wow.
You actually shocked
me.
Yeah, yeah.
You know?
Yeah.
And I got the job straight off the bat.
So that, I suppose that decision feltlike, like you said, you were ready.
You were more aligned.
Like, how did you, how did youfeel that went with your family?
Because that was like, itwas really, it's a big step.
Look, I don't think it was like theend of the world, but my parents,
(08:24):
I do remember having conversationswith me being like, are you sure
this is where you want to work?
You know, have you taken theconsideration, the travel time?
You know, and getting to work,getting home, working late, late
nights and all that sort of stuff,you know, and like putting that, I
guess, negative vibe into the place.
(08:45):
I really want it to be, youknow, but that's, I guess it's
been my upbringing anyway.
You know, everything's tread with caution.
And that's, that's the thing.
I think that's the, like the mostimportant part of this episode.
Because I feel likethat's where it gets us.
when we get talked out of things,but it's good that you didn't when
you heard that, did it give you asense of unease or were you just
(09:06):
like, no, this is what I need to do.
It was, I guess my mind was a lot clearerthen as well, like, in where I wanted
to be, what I wanted to do, so like,I'm still that person, like, I'm very
determined if there's something I reallywant to do, or I really want to buy, or
whatever it is, I will make sure I get it.
That's good, that's good It is good.
(09:26):
Yeah, it's good that youdon't get talked out of it.
It is good, but I feel like theI always get talked out of it.
Yeah.
Nah, you shouldn't.
You shouldn't,
but that's why that's what, like, it'sgood to hear what's happening for you.
So you were just like, no,this is, this is right.
This is for me.
So when they did, like when yourparents did say that, do you remember
some of the things that you said back?
I don't really remember specifics, but Idefinitely remember like sitting on the
(09:48):
Island bench having these conversationsand both my mom and dad and my dad being.
He's super Greek self beinglike, you know, are you crazy?
We're going to go all the way over there.
Why do you need to be over there forwhy don't you just stay where you are
and be content with where you are.
All you want is changeall the time, you know?
(10:09):
And I'm like,
progress,
It's not just
about change.
And one thing he always say to me and hestill does is because I like to change
things and change my environment and.
I mean, I shouldn't say that because Istill have the same environment, but you
know, I think, I think I like to dreamand imagine where life could be, you
(10:32):
know, but because of our upbringing, myfamily seemed to think I'm quite unstable,
but it's not actually
being unstable.
It's just about wanting to grow anddevelop and move forward in your life
and
because it's not the way.
I've been brought up tobelieve is the right path.
Yeah.
I think that's
(10:53):
That just hits a nail on the head
it's what they think is the rightpath for you, not what you feel
is the right path for yourself.
And they're less about change too, right?
Like both your parents, bless them,beautiful people, like seriously.
Yeah.
Love your mom.
No, they are.
But, but also I think it'sjust a cultural thing too.
Like.
Absolutely.
They did the same work.
They stayed.
It was like my family too.
my mom, my grandparents, everything.
(11:13):
They stayed in the sortof the same jobs for ages.
They were just really content withwhat they did or not necessarily
always content, but they didn't change.
No.
Or they didn't want that change.
I suppose.
Yeah.
That's a really interesting point.
But
they're probably, our parents haveprobably been influenced by their parents.
Yeah.
Sure.
And I think when you.
Look back at your grandparents.
They came to Australia for a better lifeand they got a job or they opened their
(11:38):
own business or whatever it is, right?
And they just worked hard
to
have money and save everything andset themselves up for their kids.
You know?
So our parents have learnt that.
Yeah.
And then they project that onto us.
And then when we'relike we've got options.
We don't need to
(11:58):
just stay
in that one, uh, line of work,
you
know, we can, we can change.
Like if you don't want to dothat anymore, that's fine.
Like you can go do somethingelse, you know, where that's like.
off the track, you know, for
them, it's very, it's, it's avery different way of thinking.
But then I was listening to, GaborMate recently, and he was talking
(12:19):
about attachment versus authenticity.
So we choose, instead of choosing what'sreally like, who we are, like a decision
that really reflects us, we go with.
Again, what's going tocontinue that connection?
Because the challenge is when we approachour parents or grandparents or family
with an idea or something that we'redoing and they come back to us with
(12:40):
feedback, that's like, this probably isn'ta good idea or why are you doing this?
It creates a fear of disconnectionor it causes disconnection.
So most of us tend to avoid makingthose decisions because or avoid.
You know, taking that chancebecause we don't want to
experience that disconnection.
And I know that's a thing for me.
Like I really, when I think aboutthat, making, trying to make that
(13:00):
decision to go study overseas,everyone talked me out of it.
Everybody, everybodywas like, don't do it.
You shouldn't do it.
It's not safe.
And I'll get so paranoid.
Like it's not safe.
I was 21 at the time, but I stillfeel like I should have gone.
No, you totally should have gone.
That's why when I, yeah, so I justthink that's, so it's really good that
you were able to, I think, stick toyour own guns and like do what you
(13:23):
needed to do when it came to moving.
Because really that was a big move.
It was.
You didn't
know anyone in that area.
It was like a whole new set of stuff,a whole new, like a whole new area,
whole new vibe to really, like youwent from like a sort of an amazing
salon, but a more local salon to likea huge one, like one of Melbourne's.
Almost elite.
Yeah.
Yeah.
You know, I
think that's so great.
(13:44):
it was a great place to work.
Great opportunities came from that.
I met some amazing people.
I'm still, you know, veryfriendly with my ex bosses.
Oh, that's good.
They still respect me and Irespect them and, you know,
there's no hard feelings there.
Like, if I wanted to ever go backthere and work, I know the door would
always be open for me no matter when.
(14:05):
That's so good.
You know?
I'm going to pause it because now I'm
Okay.
So you mentioned that like, so you left,Oh no, sorry, I've jumped the gun there.
So you spoke about Joey's thatyou guys are on a really, like
(14:27):
you're left in a really good place.
So you decided to leave Joey's.
So that's the next decision becauseI feel like out of the ones you've
made or are going to make or you'rethinking about that we're talking
about today, this was a big one becauseyou decided to work for yourself.
So like that's.
It's, it's amazing.
so talk me through that.
what, what happened there?
(14:48):
the process of the decision.
So you were like, okay,I need to make a change.
And then what happened with your family?
So I think, that one was unexpectedone, probably sooner than I thought.
And that wasn't for any reasonother than the fact that I felt
like I had personally completed myjourney working in that environment.
(15:11):
Yep.
You know, I did it for justunder four years, I believe.
Oh wow,
yep.
It was like three yearsand like nine months
Yeah.
I felt like I had been.
I felt like, I actually feltlike I was completely burnt out
and
that I had just done everythingthat I felt I needed to do for
my career, for my own, liking interms of style and stuff like that.
(15:32):
And what I wanted to do.
I wasn't really interested infurthering myself with that company.
Yeah.
And the way they did it too,like, which is fair, yeah.
And the way like the competition.
Nothing wrong with it.
You just, yeah.
Yeah.
Like I didn't want to dothe competitions anymore.
Yeah.
And the way that they did ittoo, like the competition.
doing and assisting at photoshoots and stuff like that.
(15:53):
So like I enjoyed it for what it was, butI think I was just, and it's not that,
I mean, I do lots of photo shoots nowand I enjoy them, but it's a different.
It's a different sort of relationship thatI have with the photo shoots for myself.
You know, like I actually likethem, but back then, I think
because I was so burnt out.
(16:13):
Yeah.
You didn't, I just didn't, I just didn't
want to do anything.
I was just over it.
I just remember that there was a coupleof times where, you know, I didn't have a
client for example, and I'd be standing atthe front desk with a receptionist and I'd
just be staring at the window and I wasLike, all these people walking past, all
these cars driving past, what do they do?
there must be,
(16:33):
there must be more to life than workinghere all day, every day in these four
walls, you know, and feeling trapped.
Like, I felt that was all my lifewas driving to work, driving home,
driving to work, driving home.
And I'm a very social person,you know, and during the week I
could only catch up with friends.
(16:54):
Once or twice a week, the rest of thetime I was working late, you know,
and then on the weekends, obviously Icould see my friends and stuff, but it
was, I just felt like I was trapped.
You felt
more confined.
So I had to get out.
Yeah.
I had
to make that decision to get out.
It was a very difficult decisionbecause I felt like I was going to
let go of the best thing that I.
(17:16):
Yeah.
It's a bit against the grain when youthink of the natural way people would
have gone about something like that.
Yeah.
Not that that's right.
I'm
just saying like, you know what I mean?
Yeah.
But yeah, I had to let it go and,it was a very scary decision.
but I just thought to myself, I'm justgoing to look, I've got the space at
home and I will just figure it out, take.
(17:39):
a leap of faith.
Yeah.
And yeah, I literally, I was very,yeah, it was very scary though.
You know?
Yeah.
Talk me through that.
Like it was literally, I justhad a challenging experience.
It was just, you just haveto take a leap of faith.
And I just thought, you knowwhat, whatever it is, it is.
I had put in my mind, worst case scenario,I'm going to be working from home.
(18:01):
And I might have five clients, ifthat, a week, what am I going to make?
200? Well, I'm going tohave to figure it out.
Like I'll work it out.
Yeah.
You know?
And I literally just did that andI thought, and worst, worst case
scenario, like everyone was sayingto me, everyone, meaning clients,
friends, family, you know, everyonewas like, the worst thing it is, the
(18:22):
worst thing that happens is they toldyou, you can go back whenever you want.
Worst thing that happensis I'll just go back there.
Yeah.
Okay.
So, and I think that's,what's gotten me through.
Oh yeah?
Okay.
Yeah.
I just sort of think tomyself, I'm very much, I'm very
negative in my own mind, right?
Oh,
so am I. I can be, yeah.
And again, I think it'sour upbringing, you know?
(18:44):
We always focus on the hard negatives.
Yeah.
And the what ifs and the but and thethis and the that and the list goes on.
You're just so out of
place a lot.
Yeah.
Like, yeah.
But I think, I think when you reallyjust think about, you know, What's the
worst that's going to happen and youliterally think it could be amazing?
You're going to go back to what you knew.
That's so funny.
You said that cause that wasliterally the process that I
(19:05):
just thought of with the podcast.
I go to Ryan.
I'm just going to go giveit a hundred percent.
And if it doesn't work,I'll just go back and study.
There's no, like, you know what I mean?
Yeah.
But I
was like, but also like, what have Ilost in the grand scheme of things?
And he was like, yeah, well he, he waslike, I've been telling you this for ages,
but I am feel still so much that that'ssomething I still really struggle with.
(19:27):
So that's why when you said that,I was like, that's exactly what
I do.
Yeah.
I really do believe that your passion forwhat you do, passion will take you places.
And you've always had that.
You've always been clearon that from a young age.
And that's why I can honestly, that'sone thing I can believe in for sure.
(19:47):
You know, like if you're passionate, Iwas way more passionate about what I do.
At 19 years old and 24 atthose ages, I was far more
passionate than what I am now.
Oh really?
Absolutely.
Because you've been doing it for so long.
Like I know why the back of my hand,you know, but that passion got me my
first job at my first job in the, MooneePonds, sweeping hair and making coffees.
(20:14):
They offered me a job throughwork experience, right?
Then it got me that second job.
in Mooney Ponds again as an apprentice,you know, and I did that and I knew my
next thing was I wanted to go for thebig guns, like I wanted to go to the top.
did though.
and my passion got me there.
You moved pretty
quickly.
Yeah, and I was reallygood at what I do and that,
(20:36):
yeah, it's
the passion that makesyou good at what you do.
So that's what got me that jobbecause it was a no brainer for them.
Obviously they met me and they were like,
Oh wow.
You can do really good work.
You're very good at what you do.
Of course we're going to give him a job.
Hey, you know what?
You know, it's really weird.
I've known you for so long and Idon't actually, and it's funny.
Cause like I was so lucky growingup cause you were my go to really
(21:00):
lucky cause you're really good.
But I'm just thinking, whendid you actually realize
that hair was your passion?
Because I know it sort ofjust always was with you.
I think as a kid, to be honest, likeI feel like as a kid, I was always
into hair and I was always interestedin people's hair and how it looked.
(21:20):
Yeah.
And I mean, I always like what'sbeautiful and what looks beautiful.
Yeah, you do.
You've got a
great sense of style.
I always thought you'd get into fashion.
Well, that's what I originally, that'swhat I actually left Joey's to do.
That's right!
I remember because we hada conversation about that.
You wanted to start a label.
Yeah.
And
I was like, that is so you.
Yeah.
You could really do that.
(21:40):
Do you think that'ssomething you would ever do?
My three passions in
life were, clothing and fashion.
Yeah.
And hair and interiors.
Yeah.
Oh, interiors is another one.
Yeah.
do you see yourself?
Like I suppose the thing is, whichis really interesting because you can
have a passion, but obviously it cansort of move into different areas.
Like you said, that hair is one andthen you've got fashion interiors.
(22:02):
Do you ever see yourself movinginto another one of those?
Absolutely.
I see you in fashion.
I see myself in something todo with clothing for sure.
Yeah.
But
you know, that would be thenext chapter down the track.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I see what
you're saying.
It depends.
Like, I mean, yeah, it's hard becauseagain, like as you get older, as
you're aware, like you didn't goto Italy because you stayed home
(22:22):
and look at what you have now.
You have two beautiful kids, you'vegot a husband, you've got your own
home, all those sort of things.
Like if you had.
Taken that
I didn't know where itd be gone to
Italy and studied, youprobably might have been there,
or I could have justcome back and hated it.
Correct.
That's what I thought about the other day.
I was like, I could have just come backand hated it and it would've been fine,
but do you know what I think it is?
This is the month you want to touch on
(22:43):
Now at your age andwhere you're at in life.
That ship has kind of sailed for you.
Do you know what I mean?
Absolutely, which is why I was like, go
I say, I only say, yeah, but I onlysay kind of, because you never know.
Like you could pick everything up hereand move overseas if you wanted to.
Oh, look, I lived in Italy.
It wasn't what I thought.
But I suppose the conditions in whichI lived there was not what I thought.
(23:04):
But one thing that I will touchon that you just reminded me that
I wanted to bring up as well.
I think too, the thing is, Whenwe make a decision, like, like
what we're talking about, right?
We're making a choice, a life choice,I don't know, maybe changing careers,
changing paths or like choosing togo a different way about our career.
You know, it's really what Ithink separates why I try things
now versus not try things.
(23:26):
One, because of what you said about,being able to go back to what we did.
I read that in the four hour work week.
This guy was like, worst case,you just go back to what you know.
And I was like, yep.
When I was younger, if I came back andI was like, I hated it, I've come back,
I would have heard about it forever.
Do you remember when youdecided to go and you hated it?
Do you remember when I tried to?
(23:46):
And I think that.
So at the time, for me, not onlydid it cause disconnection, but I
felt like I didn't have a sense oflike a safe place to come back to.
Whereas now with my kids, right?
I would be like.
If you want to go travel, go for it.
If you love it, amazing.
Keep going.
If you don't, your home's alwayshere, but I didn't get that.
And I wonder like, if the thing I thinkwith you is you've, you've done that.
(24:09):
Like, even though you've not, I mean,it's not like your family said you
can't come back, you've done thatregardless of having that sense of
safety net especially at the beginning.
So I wonder too, and this is whatI'm going to talk about in the
next part of this conversation.
if we got more of that type of language.
Growing up, would we havemade different choices too?
I think definitely.
I don't know if you would
cause you just killed it.
(24:30):
You just made great choices.
No, I haven't.
See, that's the thing, youlook at me and you know.
I've always thought you're great though.
You think that I'm great and I've doneincredible things and blah, blah, blah.
I look at things that I've doneand I'm like, yeah, okay, whatever.
Like, what did I do?
You know, like, even now working fromhome, I work from home and yes, I've
created a, a business and an image anda profile and all this sort of stuff
(24:53):
that, I never anticipated on happeningat all, just happened organically.
Yeah, it is amazing.
It is if you really think about it, but Idon't see it as being this amazing thing
because it just happened unexpectedly.
You know what I mean?
that was never my intention.
So you never really, when you saidlike you went back home, back to, when
(25:15):
you worked for yourself, you said yourpassion will always like you feel as
though your passions have always carriedyou.. you've never really had a vision
around it though, like a clear one.
You've always kind of gone nextmove, next move, next move.
Not
for my own business, no.
Yeah.
Oh no.
I've
never had a full clear visionas to what exactly am I doing.
Yeah.
I've just sort of rolledwith it and it's kind of just
Do you reckon that's been better though?
Possibly.
(25:35):
Less pressure?
Possibly, but I'm such astructured, organized person.
for most part of my life.
So for me, I guess that's why I don'tsee it as Successful as it is as
what others might perceive it to be.
Yeah, you know because for me Isee it as I've just winged it.
Define
success though.
(25:56):
Cause I look at you and I think thatyou're successful, not only because
of who, like I said, fancy people,but also the fact that you've really
stuck with your passion and that you'vealways shown up, even when it's not
always been easy or super approved ofor recognized, you've always shown up
as yourself and made choices that really
(26:17):
Especially when it comes to yourcareer, I made choices that really
reflect you, even though, for example,looking at it, people would have thought
the move from Joey's to work intoyourself did go backwards, as in, but
for you, it hasn't, you stuck to it.
I don't know if everyone wouldbe able to make that choice.
You know what I'm saying?
Yeah, absolutely.
I think, I mean, I think Idon't think it was my, I really
don't think I went backwards.
(26:38):
I'm not saying you were, I know you did.
Like people would interpret it.
That's what I'm saying.
I'm saying from people's
interpretation of me going backwards,I feel like I disagree with that.
I don't think I went backwards.
I think I went forwards blindly.
But why do you say that as a forward move?
I'm curious, like, not that I don't, I'mjust saying you are thinking behind that.
that's really good.
(26:59):
you're acknowledging.
Yeah.
Okay.
So other people perceive it as this, butfor me, I know what this decision was.
I think because thatclarity around it, like I
always knew and I do knowthat I am good at what I do.
Yeah.
And I'm not saying that in astuck up way whatsoever far.
No, no.
You know, I can be very insecureand I don't give myself.
enough credit at all, but I think that ifI want to change that narrative and I'm
(27:23):
going to say, I am good at what I do, Ithink, you know, moving forward with these
decisions sort of gave me a little bit oflike a ego boost in a way, I guess, like,
you know, like confidence in a better way.
Cause I feel like, yeah,
it gave me the confidence to Justown it and be like, I got this
(27:45):
Like half the things Ilearned and all the extensive.
Knowledge that I learnt, Ilearnt it from work, from my
workplace, you know what I mean?
All the training nights that we used todo that's where I learnt my foundations.
It's helped shape you.
Yeah.
and shaped me to be that person that I cannow stand on my own two feet and I don't
need someone else to back me, you know?
(28:07):
But if I didn't, if I didn't moveforward, I would have still just been,
you know, Dimitri
I always felt like I needed to be myown brand and my own image, you know?
So that's why I just sort of did that.
That makes sense.
that's actually great.
I'm just thinking about whatyou're saying, to be honest.
I'm just sitting with it.
Because one thing that, I talk about andI've learnt myself is, so many of us wait
(28:29):
for the confidence to make those moves.
But it's like a catch 22 becauseyou gain inner confidence or self
esteem from making those choices.
And being really authenticabout them, like, you said, this
is what I need to do for me.
Yeah,
hone in on that.
Okay.
So now let's talk about Greece becauseI feel like this is such a good topic.
(28:49):
Because you've shown your authenticityand power in these choices that you made.
That was something that I thinkyou've said is against the grain
or not what people expected orthought was an ideal situation.
you and I were having a conversationthe other day and you were talking
to me about Greece and I waslike, just go, just go and do it.
And you said I was the only person so farthat had really sort of encouraged it.
And I was surprised by that, but alsowhen I look at it, okay, let's just
(29:13):
talk about your thinking behind it.
Like Greece.
Doing it solo reminds me of thispodcast because I feel like you've
gone to Greece, so you haven'tdone it the way you wanted to.
Like I've done the podcast.
I've done it, but I've notdone it the way I wanted to.
And not just that, but
like you wanted to go to, you've been toItaly multiple times, but you've never
done it the way you imagined to do it.
Like eat, pray, love.
(29:34):
I think that's why I'm like, go do itbecause I know how much I regret it.
And that's the thing.
And that's why I feel like there's a hugepart of me that, even though I did go to
Greece and Dubai in 2023, I did go solo,but I wasn't really solo because I met
clients, I met friends, random people,and then I did the most part of my trip
(29:59):
with my best friend and her husband.
You know, I was only really on my own.
Well, on my own for like, what aweek, you know, and every day I had
different clients and friends So Ihad people to go to the beach with,
I had people to go for dinner with.
it was just a matter of getting thereand meeting them wherever they were,
(30:21):
So I wasn't technically on my own,but I guess it's kind of warmed me
up for really wanting to actuallydo it completely on my own.
And I really think that, you know,after having been through, A breakup.
Yeah.
but it is those big life changes.
it is a sense of loss, heartbreak,like those sorts of situations
(30:42):
that actually push us to makethose harder choices sometimes too.
So you're saying that that'sbeen part of the catalyst.
Yeah, definitely part of the catalyst,a hundred percent, you know, and
I feel like, I do need to go and.
get it over and done with anddo it and see how it feels.
Yeah.
You know, like going on your own, figuringthings out on your own, eating dinner on
(31:04):
your own, going to the beach on your own.
Like, yeah.
Well, what else do I mean?
? No, no,
like I think, because that wasmy question I had in my head.
I was like, define solo.
Like as in what does that look like?
because for some people it would begoing there by themselves even if
they're meeting people along the way.
Does that make sense?
So for you, you mean going therebut spending time by yourself
(31:26):
because you've traveled by yourself?
Yes.
But you didn't spendtime by yourself there?
Well, yeah.
2023 I was on.
I traveled there on my own, butI had people there that made
me feel safe and not alone.
You know what I mean?
Because I always had people therethat I was meeting up with, you know,
and then that was only for a week.
So then the rest of the trip, I was withmy best friend and her husband, this
(31:47):
time around, I'm highly considering doingthe whole trip or a part of the trip.
proper solo.
Like I don't know anyone that's goingto be here unless you're here by chance.
Do you know what I mean?
Like, that's how solo I'm talking.
rock up to a country.
Yeah, literally.
Yeah.
You know.
But then if, people know that I'mthere, and there's people around, of
(32:11):
course I'm going to hang out with them.
And make that effort.
But, you know, to actually travel.
actively
seeking it.
No.
Yeah.
choose some destinations.
And this is where I'm going to be and ifpeople happen to be there, then great.
So what makes you think, or why doyou think you haven't done that yet?
Like as in, you mentioned that you'vetraveled, that you've had, you've had
this idea of wanting to travel this way.
(32:32):
Why haven't, why, like, what do you reckonis like, how'd you back from, from that?
I think, my insecurities for sure.
Okay.
I am a very social person, soThat fear of being alone is really
daunting, like really daunting.
but I also think I was a lot younger then.
I was like, you
(32:52):
should have kids.
Not so
daunting then.
You would probably love to be on your own.
When you're like, that
sounds daunting, I'm like It does not.
As I was saying, you'd probably bekilled to have a week by yourself.
I love
my kids but yeah.
Life's a break.
So I feel like it would be a reallygood experience to just face your fear.
(33:14):
and I can tick that off mybucket list that yes, I have
traveled solo and not be our age.
Like when you wanted to do it at 21?
I think, 18, 19.
It was between 18 and 21.
I can't remember exactly,but yeah, I was at uni.
And I was like, I'll go study.
Do my own thing.
be by myself.
Not be able to be that age nowand be like, I never did it.
(33:34):
like this is my lastopportunity to be able to say.
I did it.
You know what I mean?
I think if you're in a place inyour life where you feel like this,
you don't know if this part ofyour life is going to happen again.
I don't know what the future holds for me.
I don't know whether I'll end up inanother relationship or whether I won't
or what's around the corner anymore.
You know where you areright now and this is
the time you feel like is idealto make that choice, which is
(33:56):
probably why you're thinking somuch about it now it's coming up.
I think it's what I need as well, justto feel like I've got a full fresh start.
Okay.
So the idea is to, by givingyourself that space, you're going
to come back in a different mindset.
Hopefully, yeah.
I'm not just partying andgetting drunk every day.
but you know what?
it could be a bit of that.
It could be a bit of like, youknow, it's like eat, pray, love.
it was so, the threeparts were so different.
(34:18):
you don't know what it's going tolook like, but I think it's the idea
that you're willing to explore it ina way that you've been wanting to.
You haven't made thedecision yet, have you?
No.
When do you reckon, when's thelatest you have to make it by
because of flights and whatever?
Well, I mean, you can make it as lateas you want, but I'm again, organized.
So like, I have to justsuss a couple of things out.
Cause work as
Yeah, with work
(34:38):
and yeah, hopefully by the end of, Nextmonth for sure I have to have booked and
organized where I'm going to go at least.
Yeah.
This is interesting because you madesuch big, like huge choices, like
that seemed trickier compared tothis one, but then this one's the
one that's been hard, do you reckon?
Absolutely.
What do you think?
That's exactly right.
leaving my job and moving to workfor myself and start my own business
(35:01):
and however that was going to look.
I don't see that anywhere near asscary as, Getting on an aeroplane,
travelling to the other side ofthe world, and being by myself.
I find that way more fearfulthan opening your own business.
Isn't that interesting?
Why do you think that is?
a security thing.
It just hits a part that's really justnot comfortable travelling by yourself.
(35:26):
you're on the other side of the world.
Like, yeah, you're opening a business butyou've still got all your friends, you've
got your family, you've got everybody,and there's a sense of stability and
security around that, even thoughthey're not the ones doing it for you.
You feel like you've got thatsupport, you know, physically.
I'm going to ask a hard question.
Do you think it's because you're goingto have so much time with yourself?
Do you think that's one of thereasons why the decision is hard?
(35:47):
Is
that your hard question?
Yeah.
That's the easy
question.
That's exactly why, I've never been onmy own for that long ever in my life.
Are you scared of what'sgoing to come up in that time?
the thoughts, the feelings, theexperiences in terms of like, it's
(36:08):
not just that you're by yourselfphysically, but also what's going
to come up while you're by yourself.
Does that make sense?
Like people avoid being by themselves.
already feel like, I mean, when I am onmy own now, I do suffer a bit of anxiety.
And a bit panic attack andall that sort of stuff.
yeah.
Okay.
I feel like everyone does to an extent.
Yeah, for sure.
know what's a natural
emotion, really.
Yeah.
And
(36:29):
when I am on my own, Idon't like being on my own.
I hate being on my own.
But making a decision to actuallygo and be on your own is like
the only thing holding me back.
otherwise I would've booked itand already decided, oh yeah, I'm
gonna go here, I'm gonna go there.
I'm so scared of being by myself andwaking up by myself, going to the
beach by myself, and seeing peoplearound in their groups of friends
(36:52):
and whatnot, and you're by yourself.
and
just this sense of judgment,like, why are you by yourself?
Cause
I look at people that are by themselvesI think why are they by themselves?
And then I make my own stories in my headas to why they might be by themselves.
but I also, I actually also admire them.
Yeah, I do.
I feel like, I think that's such a,
you're so strong and courageous.
(37:13):
and comfortable with yourself thatyou can sit there, no problem.
Yeah.
And eat by yourself
I remember the first time I did that.
It shows a lot
of confidence.
It
shows a lot of, yes, confidence,self esteem, self worth.
Like you're not botheredby being by yourself.
you're okay to sit and eat by yourself.
I suppose too, in the culture thatwe're in, That's also really uncommon
(37:34):
because we're so interconnectedand in that mindset of, you
know, who did you travel with?
Where did you go?
How big was the travel?
Like to go somewhere by yourselfis the idea of it is daunting,
absolutely.
But
I completely get why you'd wantto do it a hundred percent.
I feel like it's worth it.
It's one of those hard decisions thatends up bringing in a lot of growth.
I think that's honestly alsowhy I really want to do it.
(37:56):
Like you said, growth.
I think that's the biggest keyword, sincebeing single again, I feel like I've
done a lot of self reflection, and I'verealized lots of things about myself I
think, you know, if you don't put yourselfin vulnerable situations to grow and learn
from, you'll just always stay the same.
Yeah.
(38:16):
And I think I admire somany people that are.
So confident.
I admire that guy sitting at acafe by himself having lunch.
And I think, wow, like good on you.
And I also think, why are you by yourself?
Like you're on your lunchbreak, what's your situation?
It's a physical representationof that person being comfortable
sitting with themselves.
(38:37):
And I think in terms
of moving forward in your life, I reallythink I admire that in people generally
and I definitely want to, would wanta partner that's like that, you know.
So I feel like you have to become,not you have to, but I think it's
important for you to understand and.
Be a reflection of whatyou want to attract.
(38:57):
Yeah.
And so you're saying from therelationship, you recognize some important
things that you want to change, I suppose,or I, and I get what you're saying.
Work
on.
I think I want to work on.
And the idea is like, you want tomeet someone, but you know that
to meet someone, you need to meetthat in yourself sort of thing.
Does that make sense?
I think it's really good that you'reeven thinking about this choice.
(39:18):
it's sounds like it's the right time tobe making it and you're recognizing that.
I think you'll do it.
I have a feeling you'll do it.
I feel like.
we'll do an update episodewhen you come back.
I'll be like, what was it like?
Everybody go away.
Everybody travel.
I feel like that'll be a great episodebecause it's just so interesting
how, these huge decisions thatyou've made really chosen yourself.
(39:41):
And then this one, which to other people,again, like everybody's different.
I completely get it.
Like I do.
Whereas I would have probably, well,I didn't make the choice, so I can't.
No.
So I get it.
I just think it's really interesting,the different types of choices that
we have, the way we go about makingthem, and what I suppose stops us
or encourages us from making them.
(40:04):
Yeah.
So we're going to do an update on this.
I'm going to end this here because Ifeel like this is the cliffhanger, But
if you don't, it's still a process.
It's still interesting tohear your thinking around it.
And that's still an important choice.
I honestly think I will.
Yeah.
And I only say
I will because I think I've put so much.
It's like calling you.
Yeah.
I really feel like my instinctis telling me I have to do this.
(40:27):
Yeah.
If I don't do it.
I'll be more pissed offand disappointed in myself.
that I didn't just You know, surrenderto the fact that you just do it.
And that's a thing.
Yeah, that's a thing.
But it's like, what
have I got to
lose?
But it's also about those decisions thatconstantly call us to do it a certain way.
(40:48):
We know we need to do it a certainway for what we might not know why,
but we know and we just don't do it.
And that's, I think was also the importantpart of this episode, normalizing that,
recognizing it, talking about it, sharingyour experience around it so that other
people can recognize that process inthemselves and see, I suppose, where
they want to make a different choice.
I just think going back to that stat ofus regretting the things that we don't
(41:13):
do more than the things we did do, likeif I had gone and it was shit, it would
have been really hard coming back andhearing other people's experiences.
Feedback on that but I would have known.
Yeah, that's right.
So I wouldn't
have regretted it.
Whereas now, it's like that's why
You have to do these things to knowwhether it's for you or whether it's not
for you I have one client in particularAnd I remember her telling me that she
(41:38):
had gone and she had traveled solo andshe had planned to do two months On a
solo trip to really just go experienceEurope and do everything she wanted to do.
she went on her own.
She lasted, I think it was three weeks.
And she was like, this is just not for me.
I can't stand being on my own.
(41:58):
I'm not enjoying this.
And she booked a flightand came back home.
But for
her,
She knew that this was just not for me.
But there's power in that too.
Like you've done it andthen you've made the choice.
But that's the thing.
you just don't know,
what your experience is going tobe and if you really love it or
you don't, and either way is fine,
But I think you need to know.
Whether it's for you or not.
And I think too, sometimes those typesof decisions can be hard because we
(42:22):
expect to always enjoy the outcome.
That's right.
something I've been thinking aboutlately and you know, it's also about the.
The process.
Yeah.
So like the way of thinking that leadsyou to that point, the way you change and
grow because of that, you might still becomfortable with the fact that you went
and you're like, I'm glad I tried it.
It wasn't for me, but you've at leastmade that choice, recognized it,
(42:42):
stood by what you felt you needed todo at that point and then changed it.
I think that there is a bit of feararound making a mistake, the shame in
coming back and going, I made a mistake.
It wasn't for me.
I think that takes alot of confidence too.
To go, I tried it and it didn't workand it wasn't for me and that's okay.
That's right.
So, stay tuned.
you'd rather, try than not know.
Yeah.
(43:03):
100%. 100%. Otherwise
the question mark willalways be in your head.
Yes.
Absolutely.
And that's
with anything.
I agree.
Hit the nail on the head there.
Need to do it.
If it calls you consistently and youfeel like it's annoying you, Then
it's time to make a move even in somesmall way You might not go for three
months, but even if you did two weeks,it's still Oh, that's what it'll be
(43:24):
I'm not going for like six
months
or anything No, not six monthsAbsolutely not But that's
fine
it's like I'm doing it because I don'tknow where my life's gonna be I do like
going on holidays I do enjoy Going toGreece particularly I love it, I don't
know whether i'm gonna have someone toGo with all the time, so I think it's
(43:44):
important that I Find a way to do it onmy own Yeah, I can go and enjoy my time
on my own whether I'm with someone or not
Yeah, but I feel like this is such agood part of your life I felt like I was
single not for long but single enoughto know I was comfortable in that vibe.
I was comfortable with myself.
I was going to the beach by myself takingmyself on date days, reading by myself.
(44:05):
that was good.
that's what probably gotyou to where you are now.
you needed to be good with that sideof your life in order for you to
then introduce the next chapter ofyour life, which was meeting Ryan
getting married and having children.
And this is that
version of that for you in the sense,like I would go somewhere for a
run by myself or a walk by myself.
Whereas you're like, travelis something that would be
(44:26):
right for me to do by myself.
Yeah, that's good.
Keep me
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