Welcome to this new episode of the Service MVP Podcast, where our host Joe Crisara engages in an intriguing conversation with business authority Aaron Gaynor. Sharing his rollercoaster journey from bankruptcy to a thriving multimillion-dollar venture, Aaron provides an insightful mix of inspirational life lessons and practical business advice. He sheds light on his early days in the construction business, coping with the 2006-2007 housing crash, and how these experiences influenced his business perspective. Get ready for an enlightening guide to growing a business significantly from scratch.
In this riveting discussion, Aaron discloses his experiences during the Great Recession, how he innovatively ventured into the home service and trade industry, and his forward-thinking emphasis on sustainable technology. He speaks about his vision of the future, nods to the shifting eco-friendly trends and unearths opportunities in overlooked sectors like water conservation. Tune in to learn about the rise of “Eco Plumbers”, the importance of a clear business direction, and celebrating the actual people behind the work.
Our guest emphasizes the fundamental role of learning, self-reinvention, communication, and networking in entrepreneurial success. He highlights the power of resilience, tenacity, goal-setting, and consistent effort in reaching your entrepreneurial dream. He elaborates on the significance of executing strategies effectively and the importance of an accountability culture within an organization for desired success.
The episode also explores the key role of communication and collective accountability in achieving business objectives. It delves into creating an environment of continuous learning within an organization, promoting innovation and preventing stagnation. Ending on an ambitious note of crossing the $100 million mark and eyeing the billion-dollar target, this episode is a must-listen for those eager to accelerate their business growth.
Check out another fantastic episode of The Service MVP Podcast...
If you want learn more feel free to reach out Joe and his team at Service MVP!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:03):
Welcome to the Service MVP Podcast. My name is Joe Crisara, and we have with
us a very special guest, Mr.
Aaron Gaynor from Eco, Plumbers, Electricians, and HVAC Technicians.
Aaron, welcome to our program. I really appreciate you being here.
I'm glad to be here, man. Thanks for having me today.
Well, today Aaron is going to, Aaron's got like a, he's a renaissance man who
(00:27):
has a lot of different layers to him.
Uh we could have like 10 podcasts or
write a book which i think he is going to write on his personal memoirs
of things that he has done and achieved and failed in his life uh
but but he is it's he's always he always wins
because he's always moving forward but Aaron's going
to cover just three bullet points on things that uh you could do to avoid disaster
(00:50):
in your business so three things that could be disastrous but could be avoided
if you make the right move he'll give you both of those things hopefully so
you don't just run into to just give you three advices on the disasters but
things to avoid them as well.
Aaron, why don't you talk a little, just a little bit of a backstory.
I know the backstory is pretty big, but give us just a little bit of a backstory as to how you got here.
(01:10):
And you grew a company from a startup to a multimillion dollar double digit
company. Tell us a little bit more about that.
Yeah, man. Well, Joe, thanks again for having me. And yeah, so just give people
that haven't heard the background, a plumber by trade, started trades in 1997,
straight out of high school, was loading semi trucks at night at Value City
(01:32):
Furniture warehouse here. year.
A guy called me up, my buddy, his brother-in-law worked for Ferguson,
called up and said, hey, we got a guy that wants to get some young people into trades, into plumbing.
Really didn't have any idea what plumbers did on a regular basis,
but I knew it was a first shift job, paid about $7 an hour and I took it and
it was new construction and I never left.
(01:54):
I started a new construction plumbing and residential side of new construction
plumbing and then learned some light commercial,
got my master's plumber's license as they call them back then around the age
of 23 years old and started a business
with my buddy who also got in the trades with me at the same time.
Because like most people that get into trades that think they know how to run
(02:18):
a business or can do it better than their boss should start a business, right?
The old E-Myth, which many of you read E-Myth or are familiar with E-Myth.
Really, that's what happened. We started that business and then we grew it to
about three and a half million and we went bankrupt in 06 to 07 and the housing crash.
We started just losing accounts and we couldn't sustain it.
(02:40):
All we had was most of our business was with builders that were closing up or weren't selling homes.
So we didn't really own a business. We didn't have our own identity.
We were just a tax ID that basically got accounts from people.
So lost that business in 07, went bankrupt, ended up back at my mom's house
at 28 years old, lost jobs, lost my house, I lost my car.
(03:05):
I mean, I lost everything. I owe it to check systems. If anybody's ever been
on check systems before, then you know what I'm talking about, right?
And ended up on mom's couch at 28 years old as a single dad with a three-year-old son and just,
looked up at him one night and said, I promise you this won't be your life,
man. I'm going to figure it out and get to work.
And got to work. Borrowed $50 from my sister, called up Ron,
(03:28):
my service manager and friend that I've known since high school.
And we all got to work. And there's a lot more in that story,
but that's the real backstory of how it got there.
And then from there, I've been fortunate to grow. Took a long time to get to that first million.
And then to get from that million to that 5 million, to 10 million,
to 20 million, to 30 million, to $40 million to $50 million to $60 million to
(03:50):
$70 million, right? And on our way to $100 million.
Been a lot of challenges along the way in the last 17 years,
but I'm grateful for every one of them. Well, you know what?
I'm proud to be there on a few steps along that journey and definitely adding some value.
And I do remember when you were first kind of just getting started in that service
(04:10):
part of the business, when you're just trying to figure it all out.
Now, so I have been, it's like one of the few people that have seen sort of
that metamorphosis from starting out to finish.
And it is remarkable and great job on, what you do is not just the information
that you give people, it's transformation, the ability to transform from where
(04:32):
you were to where you want to be.
So definitely nobody epitomizes that more than you.
And I'm glad that you're here, that people can have the honor of learning some
of the things that you can do.
So what are some of the things that are pitfalls or things that we can avoid
that as a business owner or even just anybody in the service business,
some things that are some of the traps that could happen just kind of get you?
(04:58):
Anything you want to start with there? What's one of the first things you think
that people can learn from that?
Well, I mean, to try to answer as the best I can without just getting into all
these like tactical thing. I think first thing is like, one of the biggest pitfalls
is just not having a true plan.
Like, where are you going? Right. Like what, what is it? Where are you trying
to grow your business to? Do you truly have a vision for your business?
(05:19):
Right. Like, what do you see into the future? Where do you think you're going?
Do you have a number? Do you have a plan? Do you have a vision?
And that's hard sometimes when you're just in the mix of just trying to survive.
Like, I get it. Like when you just try to get up every day, run calls,
things are coming out. Yeah.
You know, tech didn't show up. Dispatch did this. something happened at a customer's
house, all the things that happen in small business and big business too.
(05:40):
They happen in our business still today.
But you really got to get a goal. Where do you want to go?
Do you want to grow your business to a million, to 5 million,
10 million, whatever it is? If we're focusing just on the business aspect right now.
And then you have to decide the biggest pitfall I see from there is that,
okay, maybe you get this big goal or maybe If you get too low of a goal, uh, can we stop?
(06:03):
Can we just call time out there for a second? Uh, because that vision, uh,
Truthfully, I do believe it is the most important thing. I was lucky enough
in the early 90s to see, I've seen Maurice Mayo, Mayo Systems,
and some of the contractors, 2000, and things like that.
And I was able to see, man, these people.
So let's stop right there. Because that part, you've got to get a vision.
(06:28):
Specifically, what is it that captured the visual that you got,
the vision means, and we can imagine, it's in our imagination that we're visioning in this.
You know, it doesn't just come out of the blue. You've got to be able to see
it. Seeing is believing, I always say, right?
So just give us a little bit on that. How do you, because once you get that
vision, all the other things like start to unfold because, oh,
(06:50):
now I know where I'm, the destination I'm going, I got to find a way to get there, right?
So tell me a little bit about that because let's just spend some time on that
alone because that to me is the key component that puts the energy behind everything else.
Is that, would you agree with that? What do you think? I agree with that, for sure.
I would say all of the success I've
had was based on base so what did you see what did
you see that made you say like you got a fire
(07:11):
under your ass to make this happen one didn't
have any money and i needed to eat right and pay bills and do stuff right like
that was the first that vision that doesn't want to work you told yourself that's
okay this is that we're gonna get rid of this vision right but we're gonna do
it we're gonna do it big like that was my thing this ain't gonna be our life
we're gonna do it big so big to me it's like i don't know i didn't know what
(07:32):
big was right at that point like like in home service or plumbing or construction.
I didn't know what big was. I've seen some big, but I was living in my own bubble
doing new construction because in the early 2000s, that's all we did.
So I had no idea what big was.
So I knew I wanted to do something big. And somehow I read the book,
Think and Grow Rich, which you've probably heard me talk about other people done.
I read, I put across this book because now I'm thinking big.
(07:54):
So as soon as you start saying, okay, I got to think big, what is big?
You start, your mind expands, as you just mentioned, right? Your mind starts expanding.
You start noticing things that you may not have never noticed before.
Like I probably had seen the book Think and Grow Rich somewhere else before
my life, but never really thought about it as something I needed to read.
Or I started listening to podcasts.
I started doing research on new plumbing technology, right? At this time,
(08:14):
tankless was really starting to be big.
So all of those things. But I guess to answer your question,
the short is I created the goal.
I don't know where it came from, how I got it. I never even met a company in
this size, but I came up with $100 million to myself a long time ago, right?
Over 15 something years ago, right? And then that was the mover because if I
made it big enough, then I knew when I started reading that book,
(08:37):
it's like you got to make it big enough out there for you to move into something, to reinvent yourself.
I'd have to be somebody completely and utterly different than I was in a sense,
like not the core of you don't have to re-erase who you are,
but you have to become somebody completely
different if you want to run an organization that's $100 million.
You just do. And you have to learn all these new skills to operate that.
(08:59):
So it forced me to think about.
How do I reinvent myself? And you mentioned that earlier in this,
and when you kicked this off too, Joe, you said something about,
you know, just going through the cycle of reinventing myself,
right? And I think that's what life's about.
Life's about reinventing yourself over and over.
But without knowing how and what you're reinventing yourself into is a real challenge.
And you just show up and every day, you're just frustrated, you're miserable, you're upset.
(09:23):
Because if you know where you're going in that goal, every day is just a step
in the process of getting to where you want to go in the long run.
And it's easier to overcome that every day because you know where you're going.
You have the will to do it because you're going to work towards that goal.
And those days don't hurt as bad, right? They hurt. Don't get me wrong.
They're hard. It's been hard days and hard years.
(09:45):
But I guess to answer your question, I hope I'm answering it the way what you're
looking for there is that that was it.
It's just got to set this big goal and grow into it, right? And if you don't
set it big enough, you may not grow into it enough, you know,
or you might not push yourself.
And I always said, if I didn't hit the $100 million and I hit $80 million.
Wow, that would still be something for a pretty big accomplishment, right?
(10:08):
I want to help Aaron try to recapture those steps.
Just real quick, you started out the construction like, okay,
that is not going to work.
That's not a vision that could help me get to where I want to go.
It temporarily gets some cash, but you're like, okay, we can't wait for a Monday.
Cash flow is not going to work. Then you went into the service business, right? Right.
Tell us about the glimpse that you saw somewhere. You must have seen it like during the recession.
(10:32):
What did you foresee that made you think this is the path to the hundred million
dollars? This is the path I need to take. Tell me about that.
Well, during the Great Recession, obviously, is when I lost my business.
Right. And when I was sitting at home or I was going out to work,
I still saw service trucks driving down the road.
I'd go drive somewhere. I saw a Roto-Rooter truck or I'd see a Mr.
Roto-Rooter truck or there's a company called Waterworks or some other service
(10:54):
truck. I was like, well, they're all out working.
They're all telling us we don't have any work in construction,
but they're driving. They're going places.
So then I started looking around at it more. And I never did service work.
I never did service. I was never a service plumber.
I was always a construction plumber before I started service business,
right? Have I gone out and did repairs on stuff on warranty?
Yeah. But I mean, like an actual service plumber? No.
(11:14):
So that was my glimpse into it. Then I was like, all right. So then I got online.
I started looking, you know, back then it's like, I kept seeing, you know, Mr.
Roto-Rooter, Mr. Mr. Ruder, you guys, we all know the main. Yeah,
yeah, yeah, yeah. And some other local companies.
And I was like, wow, how could I compete with them? What would I do?
And I started just trying to think out into the future. I was like,
(11:35):
okay, so the world's today about rotor.
What's the future about? And I thought, well, the future has got to be about
technology. The future has got to be about innovation.
What's coming in home service, or not just home service, but what's coming in
plumbing at that time? And it was like tankless. And I knew I was putting them
in on some construction jobs.
I was like, all right, what's next? Water conservation.
And I just looked into the future and said, what is the
(11:56):
future opportunity besides living the passive rotor
not not saying anything negative about the word
rotors just what is the evolution and i thought well there's it's
like eco eco is kind of the green the eco right was
coming at that time and building more so i was like that's the opportunity the
opportunity is there and i need to i need to pursue that and that's that's what
(12:16):
that's what i did just try to look into the future of what didn't exist and
where the gap was you know and then try to say how can i how can i create a
service or create something in that space.
Well, you know, you did something really unique. You know, eco-plumbers just
rolls right off my lips. It's just like, it's natural.
But, you know, when you say eco-plumbers, electricians, and HVAC technicians,
(12:41):
I noticed something special about the name.
And you've kept it in a more, you're focusing on the person who does the service
rather than on a generic term like plumbing, heating, air conditioning,
like everybody else does, right?
Tell us about the thought process that went into that. This is a surprise question.
And you probably weren't expecting.
But I'm going to go ahead and ask you because I was kind of trying to figure
(13:02):
out what's different about the name that has me a little bit more.
My brain started seizing up just trying to think about the difference there.
Tell me a little bit about how you changed the name from Eco Plumbers,
which was a good name to begin with because it just rolls off my lips.
This other one, you took out other trades, obviously, but you maintain the focus
on the people who do the work rather than the company in general.
(13:25):
Tell us what the difference is, the philosophy there and your vision
there yeah um yeah i know joe i
know when you were here you kept like you kept wanting to say electrical right
all the stuff that everybody's kind of used to in a sense especially people like us
in the trades like we're used to it being the plumbing the electrical you know
the heating and cooling right um and because we were eco plumbers which was
(13:45):
the plumbers right is what people usually look for and as we went forward we're
like well we want to be able to stay with the origin of the people that do the
work not not the trade itself self, right?
To per se, it's like, the origin was the plumber, eco plumber.
And then we're like, well, eco electricians, eco HVAC technicians, right?
Or HVAC technicians, whatever you prefer to say. So it was really about trying
(14:08):
to find something to stick with the people that do the work.
And those were conversations we have with our marketing partners and internally.
And we also thought like, well, sometimes it's you want to be a little unique, right?
Like, and you need to stand out and the way to stand out was to focus on the
people that do the work because that's who does the work not just the trade
and everybody goes around and says heating and cooling.
(14:32):
Right. Like everybody says that. And I think we do that because we assume that
consumers aren't smart enough to understand what an HVAC technician is,
but they are, they know what HVAC means.
Right. They know what HVAC means. They know who an electrician is now,
not electrical. They know who electricians are. Yeah. Yeah. That's a good point.
They know who plumbers are.
Right. They don't need plumbing. They know who plumbers are.
And when they talk, that's how they talk.
(14:52):
Right. So, um, I got my plumber down the street. I'll give it.
Hey, I got an electrician. I know a guy who does like an electrician who can help you with that.
I think that's more, it's a more natural to, you know what?
You're tapping into something which is more for consumers. Like the other way
of doing it is more like the way the trades would do it.
But the way you're doing it is the more the way consumers would do it.
(15:13):
Have you put some thought into it?
Is that just by accident or is that by purpose? No, that's exactly how we did.
Even when we did Eagle Plumbers, it was that. I know a lot of places call themselves
plumbers, but it was about thinking about how the consumer search, right?
And I was thinking when I said, when I went back and I was thinking of the future,
it's like, how would I look?
Well, if I'm looking up plumbers or plumbing today or rotor,
what would I do? Oh, eco plumber, right?
(15:34):
An eco plumber would be the person that does all the future things that you
would need done in your home, right? So that's about the vision, right?
I think, and again, back to the question is like, what's the biggest pitfall?
It's like, well, not having a vision and clarity to where you're going.
You're going to screw a lot of this up along the way. And we have to. too.
We've had to rebrand, we've redone language and we've done things,
but it's just, those are all part of the evolution of growing.
(15:56):
But the biggest pitfall, I believe, is not having a clear vision to where you're going.
First, and I think, I think you have anything to work towards.
I think that vision, and I think the vision that eco farmers,
electricians, and HVAC technicians, it seems like it focuses on people.
That's where I'm noticing.
I'm noticing that it's not a technically built, it's not a technical palace
(16:19):
of people built, but it's a people palace in a way. Does that make sense?
Is that part of the vision that you said you had to make a choice between,
it could be more of a technical business where we focus on all that,
or more of a people business where we focus on that.
It seems to me that I'm just an observer that the focus has been on people and
not and then once you got good people to get that technical part built on into them.
(16:43):
Tell us about that. The focus versus the technical versus people there.
Yeah, I mean, I think, well, the idea is that we want it to be about the people
that do the work. Right. Because we're trades people. Right.
My I'm a trades person. I'm proud of the trades.
Right. There's like I think that's one of the greatest things that's ever happened to me.
It saved my life in many ways. the trades ads and joe's giving
you look at the opportunities you've had right the trades being proud of being
(17:04):
a trades person is important right to me so the first
thing is like let's focus on the people and be proud of being plumbers electricians
hvac technicians or any trade that you may do
right be proud of that like trades people keep the keep the keep america going
to keep the world going they do so many great things right without it we know
we know we don't we live in a third world country without without these uh things
(17:26):
operating so and the people that do that that are the most important,
right? And it gets lost a lot in business.
I understand we all kind of go this way, a little bit that way,
but the idea was really get good people.
And then we built the Eco University, a school that we train people into the trades, right?
We've graduated, I think 140 people now through our school and brought them into the trades, right?
(17:47):
And that were never in the trades, never were in the trades at all.
And now these people are trades people, either most of them are plumbers.
And we started through the school, our first HPC and we don't have an electrical
program yet, but we will. Right.
And, but we've hired that. So it's really about the people bringing the great,
right people into the trade,
teaching the trade, and then getting them out there to earn a great living for
(18:09):
themselves and to keep growing a trade that is important to anybody's listening
to this podcast or podcasts like this, like this is your livelihood.
This is what you should be proud of. And we should be building great trades,
people to do great work every day.
And that's, that's what we want. Do we screw it up? Absolutely. Do we make mistakes?
Of course. Have we hired the wrong people at times? Yeah, absolutely we have.
(18:31):
Uh, but we've done it right more times than we've done it wrong.
And that's the reason why we've been able to keep moving forward.
And, you know, as I, as our team talks about it, I think one thing that we try
to do every day that I do believe that we're trying to do better than our competition per se, right.
And marketplace or in other places is I think we try harder.
We just try harder, but we screw it up by trying harder.
(18:52):
And, uh, you know, that's okay. That's definitely very fair.
I definitely see that you got to where you're at because it is the effort that people make,
And I think, you know, going back to the vision aspect of things,
I was trying to figure out, like, when I first, when I actually visited there,
I was there a couple of weeks ago, and I said, man,
it's like the amazing amount of effort. How do they keep this effort moving focused?
(19:17):
And I think that vision is it. So now you have a vision on the educational for
a new employee who starts at the university and then winds up in one of your
trucks and becomes an employee here and helps your customers.
There's also a vision for the customer that you want to see the journey that
they're going to take, right?
Did you guys – and you talk about the goals you had when you wrote that down.
(19:40):
How long did it take you to kind of just write those goals down and write down
for each one of those journeys? Because it sounds like there's multiple journeys.
The financial journey, the company's got to take, too.
I know the vision is easy to say, but it definitely has some complexity to it.
Would you agree with that, Aaron?
That there's some different visions inside the vision in a way?
Yeah, they develop into more, right?
(20:02):
But I think what happens, you know, I think I was in a good spot where I was,
I just needed to get to work and I was dumb enough not to know all the complexity
of things, right? Right.
And I never worked in a service business, so I didn't have I wasn't jaded by all these other things.
And I say that is like just dumb enough that I didn't want to I didn't overthink
(20:24):
it. I just said, OK, here's the goal.
And as I go, these things will have to unpack as we go forward.
Right. Like I didn't sit down and go, all right, I need to write out.
This is the people goal. This is the financial goal. These are all just like,
all right, I'm going to move in this direction to this big number.
But I know I'm going to have to learn these things.
And as I went along, it's like, OK, This is definitely how I want the environment
to feel. I want it to feel upbeat.
(20:46):
I want it to be motivating. I want it to feel inspired. I want people to be proud of the trades.
I want people to know the story of the trades and how it saved my life.
I want it to be part of saving their lives because it has.
And I wrote in some of the journal things that I've put up on presentation and
other stuff is like, I'll be in the business.
My business will be in the business of saving the day and protecting the future.
(21:06):
I will be in the business of saving people's dreams and lives through the trades.
It's like, so that's, that was kind of, that was there.
So I did kind of have that, but that didn't happen right away.
That happened as I started to realize more of like, okay, I need that.
Then it was like, all right, financially, like, what do we need to do?
We joined next star, right? It's like, I need, I need, I mean,
I'm trying here. I don't know everything we joined next star.
(21:28):
As a network to learn more about the business, right? Itself, right?
There, Joe, I met you before I actually joined Nextar. I needed sales,
right? I was like, I don't know how to, I'm not a sales person, right?
I think I naturally can communicate and sell.
And some of this has been developed over time. As we reinvent ourselves,
we get better at communicating, better at telling stories per se, right?
(21:48):
But I met you, right? 12 years ago, I think it was. I looked you up.
I'm online, like looking for this. And that was when it was contractorselling.com, right?
And met you. And I was like, I need to know how to sell. And I went on some
of your, not on some, I went on your classes. I watched all your videos on total immersion.
We did it all. I did it all 12 years ago and, you know, learned a lot of my,
how to sell, uh, from you and what you did. Right.
(22:12):
And then as we went along, we needed to learn how to operate an organization.
And right at that point, you know, we felt like Nextar was the best thing for
us at that time for operating organization, which I think you could understand 12 years ago. Right.
And yeah. Yeah. So, and, uh, so that's what we did. So that was the next evolution.
And so to answer your question, I think I'm answering your question.
I'm saying that they all unfolded as you move forward, right?
(22:35):
Because you knew you were moving forward farther than that. Do you need them all? Yeah.
But I guess just people get so caught up in like, well, I got to know all this
and this and this and all these things before I do something.
It's like, just start moving, move, right?
Just start moving. And the evolution of it works. And anybody that I know,
all the guys I'm friends with in the industry, people that that I've known that
(22:56):
have been successful have all done the same thing.
Nobody knew 100%. They just started moving in a direction and working.
And then the pieces just, they kind of fall, they fall in place.
It's just weird to explain.
They don't fall in place by accident. I think we have the number three thing, right?
It's like, number one, get the vision, right?
Figure out goal places and meet people and see things.
(23:19):
And number two, create that goal and start documenting and writing it down and
make sure you got this down. And number three, don't stand stationary.
The status quo is not going to get you to where you want to go.
Sitting in the same place, that's something that a lot of people don't realize,
that the universe rewards those people who take action.
And I think you figure out the next problem one thing after the other.
(23:43):
It's not just, hey, let's sit back and plan and not do anything and wait for two years.
It sounds like this is something we're going to jump into it and we're going
to solve problems one at a time.
It's like, how do you undo a ball of yarn or whatever that's all tangled up?
You just undo one knot at a time and next thing you know, it's untangled.
Is that a fair way of analogy or a metaphor we could use on that, would you say? For sure.
(24:05):
I mean, I think that's been the story of how we've gone forward.
And then as you evolve, you get maybe a little more strategic, right?
I do think there's three things that are, when you think about it,
one is yes, do need you need knowledge so you need to understand what you're
going to do right you can't just.
Be completely blind to stuff right like you can't start a business and
not file the paperwork properly like you need to get the knowledge and understand right
i'm just using that as a basic fundamental right uh you
(24:27):
need knowledge then you do need a strategy right then you need
a strategy what are you going to do how are you going to do it and then you
got to execute right so a lot of people could go out and get the knowledge this
is one thing i have said on to myself too i do this too it's like there's so
much information and knowledge available now that there's no way you can't know
what to do at this point like there's lots of podcasts out there like this there's
(24:48):
There's groups, there's networks,
there's groups on like knowledge is available.
Strategy is also basically there. Most of the people are giving the strategy
to you at this point in time.
Like, right, Joe, you have a strategy, you have your playbooks,
right? You have your stuff.
Everybody has their stuff, their strategies, their strategy everywhere.
So where does it really come down to? It comes down to execution, right? It's executing.
(25:11):
Executing is the hardest thing ever. And that means you have to get up every
day and do it over and over and over.
And we have our problems at execute. we have our problems with knowledge strategy and
executing right but the thing is when i thought about those over time
the biggest thing it did even a text with some of some friends
today is like you know why we had a little back for i think one
of the reasons why the one is that has it doesn't have to be that complicated we get
up every day and we just re-execute every single day right
(25:33):
you just try again and you try again and you
try again and you try again right and i'll say people
ask me sometimes what they think was the success for me and i don't
i don't know i can't pinpoint what it
was i do think a vision wasn't did this but the one thing i do
know that i did every day is i showed up every day
no matter what no matter what day it was what time
(25:53):
it was how many hours it took i showed up i never
did not show up i just showed up every day and
you know what there's a decade of showing up and feeling
like nothing ever happened and then immediately then within a
decade after that things just started unfolding because i don't know why it
just maybe that was the time the universe finally said you put in enough work
you've proven that you want to do it i and maybe i'm going way higher i love
(26:18):
it oh you got it you got it right you know at some point it kind of said okay
you you put in the work you proved it so now it's your turn to,
um you know reach some of those rewards for the decade of hard work of learning
and working and executing day in and day out but when i was at that eco plumber.
Like plumbers, electricians, and HVAC technicians.
(26:40):
I was not sure I could get it right. What I experienced there was something
that I was not really prepared for.
I was prepared for a lot of things. But when I saw, as you first,
I sat down, we had that first 9 a.m. meeting with the management team at 9 a.m.
And what I really experienced, which I think would really be,
if I could, I mean, I did film a little bit of it. I'm not sure what to do with
(27:03):
the film because it was like, I need to film this because it's so good.
It was Byron, who is the, what's the title he holds it by?
The VP of Operations. The VP of Operations.
He was holding a meeting with all the leadership of the company.
And what I did witness there was a great amount of accountability.
Now, has accountability always been part of the organization or something that
(27:27):
you've been adding layers of accountability over the years?
Because that, to me, is one of the things where you can have this thing and
moving forward, but then nobody's accountable to doing things to the outcome
we're looking for in a way, right?
And when I saw that, truthfully, when I saw that, I'm like, man.
I'm going to, I see, just I can see right off the bat, I'm going to help instruct
(27:48):
these guys to get to where they, some things they need.
But I'm like, they're actually instructing me right now on some things I need
with the accountability.
Ability i'm like i just got a lesson here for myself and this
the value of my trip was tenfold for me
i got something out of this too talk about that part of
it when did that first get adapted because that's the thing that
separates you to get to that 40 million
(28:10):
50 million that 100 million you're going to get to i can
see that i can see it happening now that that increased my vision
like uh that's good this is going to happen 100 million
that's like no doubt i had 100 when i left i'm
like yep we're going to get this thing to 100 million just based on
all these but that was a a big piece of it tell me about the accountability that
byron and the rest of the team kind of works together to achieve
(28:31):
tell me about that yeah um so um every week
on monday we have that meeting set 9 15 we've had it forever for years we've
had that meeting i mean when i say years like uh it's been an evolution of it
right there's times where it's been just an update meeting we get on there then
there was kind of accountability then it lost it then people are like oh this
meeting's too long and so we've done this right so again it's just going through
(28:53):
through the cycles, right?
Sometimes you got to undo things to do it, to realize you end up right back
at the same spot you started because it was actually the best thing to do.
But if you didn't work through that evolution, then everybody would have still
been wondering, is this the right thing to be doing? Right.
And, um, I say that because sometimes we, uh, you know, we abandoned things.
That we think that were good because we think something was better,
(29:15):
but then we think something was better, but then we realized that what was better
was actually what we were doing. so we should have just been doing that, right?
And we've done that in this company many times, but also think it's somewhat
it's necessary because it has to happen so that you can get back to what actually
mean, what is actually meaningful and done. So that meeting has gone on.
For years. We've always done that. We used to be really strong when we were
(29:38):
smaller, which has gotten harder with multi-location and daily huddles too.
By daily huddles, we're accountability to it. So we've really turned into a
weekly accountability meeting.
Everybody puts their numbers in for the week, what their projections are, what you saw.
They talk about last week's numbers. What did they hit last week?
Where were they? Where were some shortfallings? What could they do this week?
Where are they going this week? What are we projecting this week for each business
(30:00):
unit, for us at each business, each location with each trade in every location is on the call.
So this is not like a couple of high level stuff.
This is level down managers are in it too, right? They're all in it to understand
what the plan is and what they're doing.
And they got to tell that story even with their GMs, right?
And that does create accountability.
(30:21):
And what we really have done it for, again, to get it back with Byron picking
picking this up as he came into the position too, was we really wanted people
to learn from each other, right?
It wasn't just all about accountability too. It wasn't just like,
oh, you didn't hit your numbers. We want to call you out on this call.
What we wanted it to be was, hey, well, you didn't hit it in HVAC in Dayton
(30:42):
market, but we did in this market, right?
So what did you guys do here last week that was working?
Or what happened here? Or how can we facilitate something there?
Or what communication do we need to improve? So a lot of it's just learning
the business and talking about the business because that's important.
Like, I don't think people spend enough time talking about the business sometimes,
and then people don't really get to learn the business because they don't talk
(31:05):
about the business. Does that make sense, Joe?
It does. You know, to me, the average organization that's mediocre.
Uh, learns it and says, I got it. And that's it.
You, you learn it and you keep learning it when, uh, cause I can see it all
the time in my thing. I have 33,000 people I coach, right?
(31:25):
So I can see it's like, man, I can't believe how far you guys are off after 10 years of doing this.
Like I had a company yesterday, but whether it's 10 years, I'm like,
man, you got to get back to the magic moments.
You got to get back to making the options. You got to get back.
We got to get back to this. And, uh, and you know, uh, and they're like, yeah, we do.
What the hell did we doing you know so in a way you'll learn
it but then there's the execution of it and then there's
(31:47):
the drop off that can occur i think that weekly thing you
guys did to me uh and you're right it wasn't punitive
or nobody was nobody left that meeting feeling like oh
my gosh i'm terrible i'm the worst man i'm the worst person everybody's like
oh good now i got an answer i've got that's what
i noticed about the meeting when i say accountability accountability is
mainly a a celebration of things that are working so other
(32:10):
people can share in the bounty of that would you agree with that yeah i
agree i think everybody thinks accountability is somebody didn't do it let's let's
let's shame them to it right and look i'm not opposed to
some shaming if you don't do stuff in this world i come from a little bit of
the old school and i say that in an appropriate way but you know i mean uh just
you do have to be able to speak it in front of people too it can't just be hidden
(32:30):
and if you didn't do it like okay well what are you going to do and what how
can we help you get there now again if we don't help and they don't get there
over time there's different different conversations, right?
But to answer your question from accountability is like, yeah,
I think we've always been pretty structured and consistent with things that we do.
Have we been as accountable all the time to the outcomes of things?
(32:52):
I mean, I guess I'd say maybe and maybe not at times, because I think it's the
real answer by saying just like, oh yeah, we're so accountable.
We have LMA, leadership and management accountability down so hard.
I mean, then be a lie, right? Because it's not. I don't know anywhere that I've
gone that does that. And if they do, then they're really at a level.
But I'm not saying that in the sense of trying to protect that we don't do it
(33:14):
well. It happens everywhere.
Everybody's standing in the same businesses, seeing the same problems,
dealing with the same things, right?
But I will say the thing that, again, that I mentioned earlier,
is just showing up every day is if the meeting's at 9.15,
you have the meeting at 9.15 every week, no matter how good
or bad it is until you get it right right and then sometimes you
might need to call time out and say okay we've had to call time outs
(33:36):
before say okay we need a time out for a week or two we need to recollect and
reset what we're going to do and why we're going to do it right and then
let's come back to this again but we always come back to it we never we never
say time out bye-bye we might say time out we need a week or two to reset refocus
and get aligned get everybody kind of communicated get some one-on-one conversations
maybe maybe resend out a little agenda to shake it up to change it and then
(33:59):
reset we always go go back to it.
Mondays, Wednesdays, I have a Wednesday meeting. The only reason why I didn't
have it this week was because last week was when you were here as training.
Every Wednesday at 7 a.m., I do a call with the whole entire field.
Every Wednesday at seven, right? The only reason why we didn't have it this
last Wednesday, well, Wednesday, we were there with you, but we do that every
(34:21):
Wednesday and we get on the call, myself, Mike, and all the leadership with all of the field.
And we talk to them, we tell them what's going on. We ask them,
we get feedback from them.
We push out information, you know, and we do it. And whether it's good or bad,
we, you know, some weeks are better than others.
Some are the communication is better or not. I guess my point is,
is that, but you're doing it all the time. and then people understand that.
(34:43):
And then you have to figure out a way to fill the void. If it's not good and
you're not getting what you want as a leader and as leaders in the business,
you've got to figure out how to make it better.
It's not your people. The people aren't going to have to go,
I'm going to tell you how to make this meeting better.
You can ask questions and get it. But at the end of the day,
it's your point to go out and ask those questions, then come back and make the
meeting better and more engaging.
Wow. That is a lot of information. And definitely, here's what I experienced
(35:09):
on that day when I saw this whole thing. I said, yeah, there was pretty much
everybody was succeeding.
Everybody was above the number one. Everybody had to commit to their own goal.
It wasn't like the leader said, here's your goal. It's like they made their own goal.
And I said, well, it's up to you. He said, how about this? And he goes like,
what's your goal? You have to tell us.
I noticed that it wasn't just doing it that way. Number two,
you know, so what can we do to get you there? What's the next step?
(35:33):
What's the game plan we can do? Do you have a game plan or do I need to help you with that?
The manager who had that had sort of a game plan. But I think he said,
you know what, I'm going to help you with it. Let's meet today at 2 o'clock.
And they met at that meeting, too. And they did come up with a game plan.
And everybody felt confident going forward.
Okay, let's do this together. And that's the thing I noticed about it is they're doing it together.
(35:55):
You've got plumbing, plumbers, electricians, HVAC technicians,
and excavators, and other divisions and office people.
But everybody's trying to work together. that there was no barriers between
the different leadership groups. Tell us about that, the remove the barriers.
And then we'll wrap this up. I know I'm probably going on too long,
(36:16):
but I just wanted to talk. That's one thing I thought was really cool about the lack of barriers.
Nobody was afraid to talk to another manager in a different department. Tell us about that.
Yeah, I think it's just always trying to have an open door policy as a company
in general. So I think that stems from that and making sure that it has been a learning.
Culture right together too through training and doing stuff
um and also realizing that we just have a lot of like
(36:38):
we do have a lot of new managers we're scaling we're growing we've
changed some leadership in the last year and some senior leadership
just due to growth and some opportunity for change and
move some people in different seats and new people coming up
in the seats from in other roles so we needed
them all to come together right and we need them to feel
that they can communicate and share between each other
(36:59):
and it's a it's a it's a we all win together
right we don't win individually yeah your department can get
celebrated for winning but at the end of the day like eco wins and loses
as one team um you know all the
department heads um are their comp is tied to
uh the total line like what
happens for them so it's not like just their line so it's like the whole department
(37:20):
has to win and then senior leadership is above that is to the company so that
we've tried to do alignments in those areas to make it that is a a win and lose
together within as much as you can, right? You still have people that need to have their apartments.
But I hope I'm answering that question that way, right? Yeah, no, it's a good answer.
I like it. I like to make sure everybody's working together is the answer.
(37:43):
Well, I tell you what, Aaron, I definitely feel you're going to get to that $100 million.
And I'm definitely happy to be part of that journey. And I can't wait to join
you there when you see that $100 million.
Here's the final question, and then we can wrap this up.
What happens when you get to that 100 million dollars now
what what's the what's the next thing after that
(38:04):
is it another goal reinvented again
or is this uh that's going to be let's let's keep
it in 100 million and hold it what do you think is the next step from there
i mean i think there's i mean of course there's another goal i mean i see 200
i see eco brand throughout ohio growing to 250 million uh you know i think as
we think about into the future we're fortunate enough to to have potentially
(38:25):
that big billion is the next kind of number, right? Billion under management.
So yes, there's other goals that have been mapped out.
And uh no that's the big goal that was the one right
so i'm more focused on just accomplishing the one that's it
and the journey that got us there and then taking all the
lessons learned to 100 million and hopefully taking those and moving that
into the next chapter of what we do and well that's 250 million to a billion
(38:48):
uh but no it's not just going to hold there then i don't think built that way
uh by any means but but again it's and when i say that it's like the world doesn't
it doesn't just stop there i understand it's like oh you hit that and now what right well Well,
you want to celebrate it and you want to reward yourself in a way of saying,
and all the people that helped you get there.
So there's a lot of work to do still to get there. We're going to,
(39:10):
we're targeted for 2025.
I gave myself a decade when I officially wrote it down. I gave myself one decade to do it.
So 2020, end of 2025 is the year we are on pace to do that.
And that just tells you how powerful a goal is when you set a goal and you set
a deadline and I wrote it down over 10 years ago.
And I said, I'm giving myself a decade to get to this goal and I'm going to
get to work year in and year out.
(39:31):
But you got to have a deadline on it uh so um but
no it's not the game's not over it's just the next level
of the game i can't wait till we come out i can't wait
till i uh i tell you what if you get to that 100 million mark i'm coming out
there on me this time okay okay hold me to it I'm coming out there on me because
i want to be part of that celebration and high five everybody and uh and i can
(39:54):
see it's going to happen Aaron thanks so much for taking your time to be on
this podcast i hope I hope you enjoyed this as much as I did.
Yeah, Joe. Thanks, man. I appreciate you over all the years, Joe. Thank you.
Thanks so much, everybody. We'll see you on the next podcast,
everyone. Have a good one.
Welcome to the Service MVP Podcast. My name is Joe Crisara, and we have with
us a very special guest, Mr.
Aaron Gaynor from Eco, Plumbers, Electricians, and HVAC Technicians.
Aaron, welcome to our program. I really appreciate you being here.
I'm glad to be here, man. Thanks for having me today.
Well, today Aaron is going to, Aaron's got like a, he's a renaissance man who
(00:27):
has a lot of different layers to him.
Uh we could have like 10 podcasts or
write a book which i think he is going to write on his personal memoirs
of things that he has done and achieved and failed in his life uh
but but he is it's he's always he always wins
because he's always moving forward but Aaron's going
to cover just three bullet points on things that uh you could do to avoid disaster
(00:50):
in your business so three things that could be disastrous but could be avoided
if you make the right move he'll give you both of those things hopefully so
you don't just run into to just give you three advices on the disasters but
things to avoid them as well.
Aaron, why don't you talk a little, just a little bit of a backstory.
I know the backstory is pretty big, but give us just a little bit of a backstory as to how you got here.
(01:10):
And you grew a company from a startup to a multimillion dollar double digit
company. Tell us a little bit more about that.
Yeah, man. Well, Joe, thanks again for having me. And yeah, so just give people
that haven't heard the background, a plumber by trade, started trades in 1997,
straight out of high school, was loading semi trucks at night at Value City
(01:32):
Furniture warehouse here. year.
A guy called me up, my buddy, his brother-in-law worked for Ferguson,
called up and said, hey, we got a guy that wants to get some young people into trades, into plumbing.
Really didn't have any idea what plumbers did on a regular basis,
but I knew it was a first shift job, paid about $7 an hour and I took it and
it was new construction and I never left.
(01:54):
I started a new construction plumbing and residential side of new construction
plumbing and then learned some light commercial,
got my master's plumber's license as they call them back then around the age
of 23 years old and started a business
with my buddy who also got in the trades with me at the same time.
Because like most people that get into trades that think they know how to run
(02:18):
a business or can do it better than their boss should start a business, right?
The old E-Myth, which many of you read E-Myth or are familiar with E-Myth.
Really, that's what happened. We started that business and then we grew it to
about three and a half million and we went bankrupt in 06 to 07 and the housing crash.
We started just losing accounts and we couldn't sustain it.
(02:40):
All we had was most of our business was with builders that were closing up or weren't selling homes.
So we didn't really own a business. We didn't have our own identity.
We were just a tax ID that basically got accounts from people.
So lost that business in 07, went bankrupt, ended up back at my mom's house
at 28 years old, lost jobs, lost my house, I lost my car.
(03:05):
I mean, I lost everything. I owe it to check systems. If anybody's ever been
on check systems before, then you know what I'm talking about, right?
And ended up on mom's couch at 28 years old as a single dad with a three-year-old son and just,
looked up at him one night and said, I promise you this won't be your life,
man. I'm going to figure it out and get to work.
And got to work. Borrowed $50 from my sister, called up Ron,
(03:28):
my service manager and friend that I've known since high school.
And we all got to work. And there's a lot more in that story,
but that's the real backstory of how it got there.
And then from there, I've been fortunate to grow. Took a long time to get to that first million.
And then to get from that million to that 5 million, to 10 million,
to 20 million, to 30 million, to $40 million to $50 million to $60 million to
(03:50):
$70 million, right? And on our way to $100 million.
Been a lot of challenges along the way in the last 17 years,
but I'm grateful for every one of them. Well, you know what?
I'm proud to be there on a few steps along that journey and definitely adding some value.
And I do remember when you were first kind of just getting started in that service
(04:10):
part of the business, when you're just trying to figure it all out.
Now, so I have been, it's like one of the few people that have seen sort of
that metamorphosis from starting out to finish.
And it is remarkable and great job on, what you do is not just the information
that you give people, it's transformation, the ability to transform from where
(04:32):
you were to where you want to be.
So definitely nobody epitomizes that more than you.
And I'm glad that you're here, that people can have the honor of learning some
of the things that you can do.
So what are some of the things that are pitfalls or things that we can avoid
that as a business owner or even just anybody in the service business,
some things that are some of the traps that could happen just kind of get you?
(04:58):
Anything you want to start with there? What's one of the first things you think
that people can learn from that?
Well, I mean, to try to answer as the best I can without just getting into all
these like tactical thing. I think first thing is like, one of the biggest pitfalls
is just not having a true plan.
Like, where are you going? Right. Like what, what is it? Where are you trying
to grow your business to? Do you truly have a vision for your business?
(05:19):
Right. Like, what do you see into the future? Where do you think you're going?
Do you have a number? Do you have a plan? Do you have a vision?
And that's hard sometimes when you're just in the mix of just trying to survive.
Like, I get it. Like when you just try to get up every day, run calls,
things are coming out. Yeah.
You know, tech didn't show up. Dispatch did this. something happened at a customer's
house, all the things that happen in small business and big business too.
(05:40):
They happen in our business still today.
But you really got to get a goal. Where do you want to go?
Do you want to grow your business to a million, to 5 million,
10 million, whatever it is? If we're focusing just on the business aspect right now.
And then you have to decide the biggest pitfall I see from there is that,
okay, maybe you get this big goal or maybe If you get too low of a goal, uh, can we stop?
(06:03):
Can we just call time out there for a second? Uh, because that vision, uh,
Truthfully, I do believe it is the most important thing. I was lucky enough
in the early 90s to see, I've seen Maurice Mayo, Mayo Systems,
and some of the contractors, 2000, and things like that.
And I was able to see, man, these people.
So let's stop right there. Because that part, you've got to get a vision.
(06:28):
Specifically, what is it that captured the visual that you got,
the vision means, and we can imagine, it's in our imagination that we're visioning in this.
You know, it doesn't just come out of the blue. You've got to be able to see
it. Seeing is believing, I always say, right?
So just give us a little bit on that. How do you, because once you get that
vision, all the other things like start to unfold because, oh,
(06:50):
now I know where I'm, the destination I'm going, I got to find a way to get there, right?
So tell me a little bit about that because let's just spend some time on that
alone because that to me is the key component that puts the energy behind everything else.
Is that, would you agree with that? What do you think? I agree with that, for sure.
I would say all of the success I've
had was based on base so what did you see what did
you see that made you say like you got a fire
(07:11):
under your ass to make this happen one didn't
have any money and i needed to eat right and pay bills and do stuff right like
that was the first that vision that doesn't want to work you told yourself that's
okay this is that we're gonna get rid of this vision right but we're gonna do
it we're gonna do it big like that was my thing this ain't gonna be our life
we're gonna do it big so big to me it's like i don't know i didn't know what
(07:32):
big was right at that point like like in home service or plumbing or construction.
I didn't know what big was. I've seen some big, but I was living in my own bubble
doing new construction because in the early 2000s, that's all we did.
So I had no idea what big was.
So I knew I wanted to do something big. And somehow I read the book,
Think and Grow Rich, which you've probably heard me talk about other people done.
I read, I put across this book because now I'm thinking big.
(07:54):
So as soon as you start saying, okay, I got to think big, what is big?
You start, your mind expands, as you just mentioned, right? Your mind starts expanding.
You start noticing things that you may not have never noticed before.
Like I probably had seen the book Think and Grow Rich somewhere else before
my life, but never really thought about it as something I needed to read.
Or I started listening to podcasts.
I started doing research on new plumbing technology, right? At this time,
(08:14):
tankless was really starting to be big.
So all of those things. But I guess to answer your question,
the short is I created the goal.
I don't know where it came from, how I got it. I never even met a company in
this size, but I came up with $100 million to myself a long time ago, right?
Over 15 something years ago, right? And then that was the mover because if I
made it big enough, then I knew when I started reading that book,
(08:37):
it's like you got to make it big enough out there for you to move into something, to reinvent yourself.
I'd have to be somebody completely and utterly different than I was in a sense,
like not the core of you don't have to re-erase who you are,
but you have to become somebody completely
different if you want to run an organization that's $100 million.
You just do. And you have to learn all these new skills to operate that.
(08:59):
So it forced me to think about.
How do I reinvent myself? And you mentioned that earlier in this,
and when you kicked this off too, Joe, you said something about,
you know, just going through the cycle of reinventing myself,
right? And I think that's what life's about.
Life's about reinventing yourself over and over.
But without knowing how and what you're reinventing yourself into is a real challenge.
And you just show up and every day, you're just frustrated, you're miserable, you're upset.
(09:23):
Because if you know where you're going in that goal, every day is just a step
in the process of getting to where you want to go in the long run.
And it's easier to overcome that every day because you know where you're going.
You have the will to do it because you're going to work towards that goal.
And those days don't hurt as bad, right? They hurt. Don't get me wrong.
They're hard. It's been hard days and hard years.
(09:45):
But I guess to answer your question, I hope I'm answering it the way what you're
looking for there is that that was it.
It's just got to set this big goal and grow into it, right? And if you don't
set it big enough, you may not grow into it enough, you know,
or you might not push yourself.
And I always said, if I didn't hit the $100 million and I hit $80 million.
Wow, that would still be something for a pretty big accomplishment, right?
(10:08):
I want to help Aaron try to recapture those steps.
Just real quick, you started out the construction like, okay,
that is not going to work.
That's not a vision that could help me get to where I want to go.
It temporarily gets some cash, but you're like, okay, we can't wait for a Monday.
Cash flow is not going to work. Then you went into the service business, right? Right.
Tell us about the glimpse that you saw somewhere. You must have seen it like during the recession.
(10:32):
What did you foresee that made you think this is the path to the hundred million
dollars? This is the path I need to take. Tell me about that.
Well, during the Great Recession, obviously, is when I lost my business.
Right. And when I was sitting at home or I was going out to work,
I still saw service trucks driving down the road.
I'd go drive somewhere. I saw a Roto-Rooter truck or I'd see a Mr.
Roto-Rooter truck or there's a company called Waterworks or some other service
(10:54):
truck. I was like, well, they're all out working.
They're all telling us we don't have any work in construction,
but they're driving. They're going places.
So then I started looking around at it more. And I never did service work.
I never did service. I was never a service plumber.
I was always a construction plumber before I started service business,
right? Have I gone out and did repairs on stuff on warranty?
Yeah. But I mean, like an actual service plumber? No.
(11:14):
So that was my glimpse into it. Then I was like, all right. So then I got online.
I started looking, you know, back then it's like, I kept seeing, you know, Mr.
Roto-Rooter, Mr. Mr. Ruder, you guys, we all know the main. Yeah,
yeah, yeah, yeah. And some other local companies.
And I was like, wow, how could I compete with them? What would I do?
And I started just trying to think out into the future. I was like,
(11:35):
okay, so the world's today about rotor.
What's the future about? And I thought, well, the future has got to be about
technology. The future has got to be about innovation.
What's coming in home service, or not just home service, but what's coming in
plumbing at that time? And it was like tankless. And I knew I was putting them
in on some construction jobs.
I was like, all right, what's next? Water conservation.
And I just looked into the future and said, what is the
(11:56):
future opportunity besides living the passive rotor
not not saying anything negative about the word
rotors just what is the evolution and i thought well there's it's
like eco eco is kind of the green the eco right was
coming at that time and building more so i was like that's the opportunity the
opportunity is there and i need to i need to pursue that and that's that's what
(12:16):
that's what i did just try to look into the future of what didn't exist and
where the gap was you know and then try to say how can i how can i create a
service or create something in that space.
Well, you know, you did something really unique. You know, eco-plumbers just
rolls right off my lips. It's just like, it's natural.
But, you know, when you say eco-plumbers, electricians, and HVAC technicians,
(12:41):
I noticed something special about the name.
And you've kept it in a more, you're focusing on the person who does the service
rather than on a generic term like plumbing, heating, air conditioning,
like everybody else does, right?
Tell us about the thought process that went into that. This is a surprise question.
And you probably weren't expecting.
But I'm going to go ahead and ask you because I was kind of trying to figure
(13:02):
out what's different about the name that has me a little bit more.
My brain started seizing up just trying to think about the difference there.
Tell me a little bit about how you changed the name from Eco Plumbers,
which was a good name to begin with because it just rolls off my lips.
This other one, you took out other trades, obviously, but you maintain the focus
on the people who do the work rather than the company in general.
(13:25):
Tell us what the difference is, the philosophy there and your vision
there yeah um yeah i know joe i
know when you were here you kept like you kept wanting to say electrical right
all the stuff that everybody's kind of used to in a sense especially people like us
in the trades like we're used to it being the plumbing the electrical you know
the heating and cooling right um and because we were eco plumbers which was
(13:45):
the plumbers right is what people usually look for and as we went forward we're
like well we want to be able to stay with the origin of the people that do the
work not not the trade itself self, right?
To per se, it's like, the origin was the plumber, eco plumber.
And then we're like, well, eco electricians, eco HVAC technicians, right?
Or HVAC technicians, whatever you prefer to say. So it was really about trying
(14:08):
to find something to stick with the people that do the work.
And those were conversations we have with our marketing partners and internally.
And we also thought like, well, sometimes it's you want to be a little unique, right?
Like, and you need to stand out and the way to stand out was to focus on the
people that do the work because that's who does the work not just the trade
and everybody goes around and says heating and cooling.
(14:32):
Right. Like everybody says that. And I think we do that because we assume that
consumers aren't smart enough to understand what an HVAC technician is,
but they are, they know what HVAC means.
Right. They know what HVAC means. They know who an electrician is now,
not electrical. They know who electricians are. Yeah. Yeah. That's a good point.
They know who plumbers are.
Right. They don't need plumbing. They know who plumbers are.
And when they talk, that's how they talk.
(14:52):
Right. So, um, I got my plumber down the street. I'll give it.
Hey, I got an electrician. I know a guy who does like an electrician who can help you with that.
I think that's more, it's a more natural to, you know what?
You're tapping into something which is more for consumers. Like the other way
of doing it is more like the way the trades would do it.
But the way you're doing it is the more the way consumers would do it.
(15:13):
Have you put some thought into it?
Is that just by accident or is that by purpose? No, that's exactly how we did.
Even when we did Eagle Plumbers, it was that. I know a lot of places call themselves
plumbers, but it was about thinking about how the consumer search, right?
And I was thinking when I said, when I went back and I was thinking of the future,
it's like, how would I look?
Well, if I'm looking up plumbers or plumbing today or rotor,
what would I do? Oh, eco plumber, right?
(15:34):
An eco plumber would be the person that does all the future things that you
would need done in your home, right? So that's about the vision, right?
I think, and again, back to the question is like, what's the biggest pitfall?
It's like, well, not having a vision and clarity to where you're going.
You're going to screw a lot of this up along the way. And we have to. too.
We've had to rebrand, we've redone language and we've done things,
but it's just, those are all part of the evolution of growing.
(15:56):
But the biggest pitfall, I believe, is not having a clear vision to where you're going.
First, and I think, I think you have anything to work towards.
I think that vision, and I think the vision that eco farmers,
electricians, and HVAC technicians, it seems like it focuses on people.
That's where I'm noticing.
I'm noticing that it's not a technically built, it's not a technical palace
(16:19):
of people built, but it's a people palace in a way. Does that make sense?
Is that part of the vision that you said you had to make a choice between,
it could be more of a technical business where we focus on all that,
or more of a people business where we focus on that.
It seems to me that I'm just an observer that the focus has been on people and
not and then once you got good people to get that technical part built on into them.
(16:43):
Tell us about that. The focus versus the technical versus people there.
Yeah, I mean, I think, well, the idea is that we want it to be about the people
that do the work. Right. Because we're trades people. Right.
My I'm a trades person. I'm proud of the trades.
Right. There's like I think that's one of the greatest things that's ever happened to me.
It saved my life in many ways. the trades ads and joe's giving
you look at the opportunities you've had right the trades being proud of being
(17:04):
a trades person is important right to me so the first
thing is like let's focus on the people and be proud of being plumbers electricians
hvac technicians or any trade that you may do
right be proud of that like trades people keep the keep the keep america going
to keep the world going they do so many great things right without it we know
we know we don't we live in a third world country without without these uh things
(17:26):
operating so and the people that do that that are the most important,
right? And it gets lost a lot in business.
I understand we all kind of go this way, a little bit that way,
but the idea was really get good people.
And then we built the Eco University, a school that we train people into the trades, right?
We've graduated, I think 140 people now through our school and brought them into the trades, right?
(17:47):
And that were never in the trades, never were in the trades at all.
And now these people are trades people, either most of them are plumbers.
And we started through the school, our first HPC and we don't have an electrical
program yet, but we will. Right.
And, but we've hired that. So it's really about the people bringing the great,
right people into the trade,
teaching the trade, and then getting them out there to earn a great living for
(18:09):
themselves and to keep growing a trade that is important to anybody's listening
to this podcast or podcasts like this, like this is your livelihood.
This is what you should be proud of. And we should be building great trades,
people to do great work every day.
And that's, that's what we want. Do we screw it up? Absolutely. Do we make mistakes?
Of course. Have we hired the wrong people at times? Yeah, absolutely we have.
(18:31):
Uh, but we've done it right more times than we've done it wrong.
And that's the reason why we've been able to keep moving forward.
And, you know, as I, as our team talks about it, I think one thing that we try
to do every day that I do believe that we're trying to do better than our competition per se, right.
And marketplace or in other places is I think we try harder.
We just try harder, but we screw it up by trying harder.
(18:52):
And, uh, you know, that's okay. That's definitely very fair.
I definitely see that you got to where you're at because it is the effort that people make,
And I think, you know, going back to the vision aspect of things,
I was trying to figure out, like, when I first, when I actually visited there,
I was there a couple of weeks ago, and I said, man,
it's like the amazing amount of effort. How do they keep this effort moving focused?
(19:17):
And I think that vision is it. So now you have a vision on the educational for
a new employee who starts at the university and then winds up in one of your
trucks and becomes an employee here and helps your customers.
There's also a vision for the customer that you want to see the journey that
they're going to take, right?
Did you guys – and you talk about the goals you had when you wrote that down.
(19:40):
How long did it take you to kind of just write those goals down and write down
for each one of those journeys? Because it sounds like there's multiple journeys.
The financial journey, the company's got to take, too.
I know the vision is easy to say, but it definitely has some complexity to it.
Would you agree with that, Aaron?
That there's some different visions inside the vision in a way?
Yeah, they develop into more, right?
(20:02):
But I think what happens, you know, I think I was in a good spot where I was,
I just needed to get to work and I was dumb enough not to know all the complexity
of things, right? Right.
And I never worked in a service business, so I didn't have I wasn't jaded by all these other things.
And I say that is like just dumb enough that I didn't want to I didn't overthink
(20:24):
it. I just said, OK, here's the goal.
And as I go, these things will have to unpack as we go forward.
Right. Like I didn't sit down and go, all right, I need to write out.
This is the people goal. This is the financial goal. These are all just like,
all right, I'm going to move in this direction to this big number.
But I know I'm going to have to learn these things.
And as I went along, it's like, OK, This is definitely how I want the environment
to feel. I want it to feel upbeat.
(20:46):
I want it to be motivating. I want it to feel inspired. I want people to be proud of the trades.
I want people to know the story of the trades and how it saved my life.
I want it to be part of saving their lives because it has.
And I wrote in some of the journal things that I've put up on presentation and
other stuff is like, I'll be in the business.
My business will be in the business of saving the day and protecting the future.
(21:06):
I will be in the business of saving people's dreams and lives through the trades.
It's like, so that's, that was kind of, that was there.
So I did kind of have that, but that didn't happen right away.
That happened as I started to realize more of like, okay, I need that.
Then it was like, all right, financially, like, what do we need to do?
We joined next star, right? It's like, I need, I need, I mean,
I'm trying here. I don't know everything we joined next star.
(21:28):
As a network to learn more about the business, right? Itself, right?
There, Joe, I met you before I actually joined Nextar. I needed sales,
right? I was like, I don't know how to, I'm not a sales person, right?
I think I naturally can communicate and sell.
And some of this has been developed over time. As we reinvent ourselves,
we get better at communicating, better at telling stories per se, right?
(21:48):
But I met you, right? 12 years ago, I think it was. I looked you up.
I'm online, like looking for this. And that was when it was contractorselling.com, right?
And met you. And I was like, I need to know how to sell. And I went on some
of your, not on some, I went on your classes. I watched all your videos on total immersion.
We did it all. I did it all 12 years ago and, you know, learned a lot of my,
how to sell, uh, from you and what you did. Right.
(22:12):
And then as we went along, we needed to learn how to operate an organization.
And right at that point, you know, we felt like Nextar was the best thing for
us at that time for operating organization, which I think you could understand 12 years ago. Right.
And yeah. Yeah. So, and, uh, so that's what we did. So that was the next evolution.
And so to answer your question, I think I'm answering your question.
I'm saying that they all unfolded as you move forward, right?
(22:35):
Because you knew you were moving forward farther than that. Do you need them all? Yeah.
But I guess just people get so caught up in like, well, I got to know all this
and this and this and all these things before I do something.
It's like, just start moving, move, right?
Just start moving. And the evolution of it works. And anybody that I know,
all the guys I'm friends with in the industry, people that that I've known that
(22:56):
have been successful have all done the same thing.
Nobody knew 100%. They just started moving in a direction and working.
And then the pieces just, they kind of fall, they fall in place.
It's just weird to explain.
They don't fall in place by accident. I think we have the number three thing, right?
It's like, number one, get the vision, right?
Figure out goal places and meet people and see things.
(23:19):
And number two, create that goal and start documenting and writing it down and
make sure you got this down. And number three, don't stand stationary.
The status quo is not going to get you to where you want to go.
Sitting in the same place, that's something that a lot of people don't realize,
that the universe rewards those people who take action.
And I think you figure out the next problem one thing after the other.
(23:43):
It's not just, hey, let's sit back and plan and not do anything and wait for two years.
It sounds like this is something we're going to jump into it and we're going
to solve problems one at a time.
It's like, how do you undo a ball of yarn or whatever that's all tangled up?
You just undo one knot at a time and next thing you know, it's untangled.
Is that a fair way of analogy or a metaphor we could use on that, would you say? For sure.
(24:05):
I mean, I think that's been the story of how we've gone forward.
And then as you evolve, you get maybe a little more strategic, right?
I do think there's three things that are, when you think about it,
one is yes, do need you need knowledge so you need to understand what you're
going to do right you can't just.
Be completely blind to stuff right like you can't start a business and
not file the paperwork properly like you need to get the knowledge and understand right
i'm just using that as a basic fundamental right uh you
(24:27):
need knowledge then you do need a strategy right then you need
a strategy what are you going to do how are you going to do it and then you
got to execute right so a lot of people could go out and get the knowledge this
is one thing i have said on to myself too i do this too it's like there's so
much information and knowledge available now that there's no way you can't know
what to do at this point like there's lots of podcasts out there like this there's
(24:48):
There's groups, there's networks,
there's groups on like knowledge is available.
Strategy is also basically there. Most of the people are giving the strategy
to you at this point in time.
Like, right, Joe, you have a strategy, you have your playbooks,
right? You have your stuff.
Everybody has their stuff, their strategies, their strategy everywhere.
So where does it really come down to? It comes down to execution, right? It's executing.
(25:11):
Executing is the hardest thing ever. And that means you have to get up every
day and do it over and over and over.
And we have our problems at execute. we have our problems with knowledge strategy and
executing right but the thing is when i thought about those over time
the biggest thing it did even a text with some of some friends
today is like you know why we had a little back for i think one
of the reasons why the one is that has it doesn't have to be that complicated we get
up every day and we just re-execute every single day right
(25:33):
you just try again and you try again and you
try again and you try again right and i'll say people
ask me sometimes what they think was the success for me and i don't
i don't know i can't pinpoint what it
was i do think a vision wasn't did this but the one thing i do
know that i did every day is i showed up every day
no matter what no matter what day it was what time
(25:53):
it was how many hours it took i showed up i never
did not show up i just showed up every day and
you know what there's a decade of showing up and feeling
like nothing ever happened and then immediately then within a
decade after that things just started unfolding because i don't know why it
just maybe that was the time the universe finally said you put in enough work
you've proven that you want to do it i and maybe i'm going way higher i love
(26:18):
it oh you got it you got it right you know at some point it kind of said okay
you you put in the work you proved it so now it's your turn to,
um you know reach some of those rewards for the decade of hard work of learning
and working and executing day in and day out but when i was at that eco plumber.
Like plumbers, electricians, and HVAC technicians.
(26:40):
I was not sure I could get it right. What I experienced there was something
that I was not really prepared for.
I was prepared for a lot of things. But when I saw, as you first,
I sat down, we had that first 9 a.m. meeting with the management team at 9 a.m.
And what I really experienced, which I think would really be,
if I could, I mean, I did film a little bit of it. I'm not sure what to do with
(27:03):
the film because it was like, I need to film this because it's so good.
It was Byron, who is the, what's the title he holds it by?
The VP of Operations. The VP of Operations.
He was holding a meeting with all the leadership of the company.
And what I did witness there was a great amount of accountability.
Now, has accountability always been part of the organization or something that
(27:27):
you've been adding layers of accountability over the years?
Because that, to me, is one of the things where you can have this thing and
moving forward, but then nobody's accountable to doing things to the outcome
we're looking for in a way, right?
And when I saw that, truthfully, when I saw that, I'm like, man.
I'm going to, I see, just I can see right off the bat, I'm going to help instruct
(27:48):
these guys to get to where they, some things they need.
But I'm like, they're actually instructing me right now on some things I need
with the accountability.
Ability i'm like i just got a lesson here for myself and this
the value of my trip was tenfold for me
i got something out of this too talk about that part of
it when did that first get adapted because that's the thing that
separates you to get to that 40 million
(28:10):
50 million that 100 million you're going to get to i can
see that i can see it happening now that that increased my vision
like uh that's good this is going to happen 100 million
that's like no doubt i had 100 when i left i'm
like yep we're going to get this thing to 100 million just based on
all these but that was a a big piece of it tell me about the accountability that
byron and the rest of the team kind of works together to achieve
(28:31):
tell me about that yeah um so um every week
on monday we have that meeting set 9 15 we've had it forever for years we've
had that meeting i mean when i say years like uh it's been an evolution of it
right there's times where it's been just an update meeting we get on there then
there was kind of accountability then it lost it then people are like oh this
meeting's too long and so we've done this right so again it's just going through
(28:53):
through the cycles, right?
Sometimes you got to undo things to do it, to realize you end up right back
at the same spot you started because it was actually the best thing to do.
But if you didn't work through that evolution, then everybody would have still
been wondering, is this the right thing to be doing? Right.
And, um, I say that because sometimes we, uh, you know, we abandoned things.
That we think that were good because we think something was better,
(29:15):
but then we think something was better, but then we realized that what was better
was actually what we were doing. so we should have just been doing that, right?
And we've done that in this company many times, but also think it's somewhat
it's necessary because it has to happen so that you can get back to what actually
mean, what is actually meaningful and done. So that meeting has gone on.
For years. We've always done that. We used to be really strong when we were
(29:38):
smaller, which has gotten harder with multi-location and daily huddles too.
By daily huddles, we're accountability to it. So we've really turned into a
weekly accountability meeting.
Everybody puts their numbers in for the week, what their projections are, what you saw.
They talk about last week's numbers. What did they hit last week?
Where were they? Where were some shortfallings? What could they do this week?
Where are they going this week? What are we projecting this week for each business
(30:00):
unit, for us at each business, each location with each trade in every location is on the call.
So this is not like a couple of high level stuff.
This is level down managers are in it too, right? They're all in it to understand
what the plan is and what they're doing.
And they got to tell that story even with their GMs, right?
And that does create accountability.
(30:21):
And what we really have done it for, again, to get it back with Byron picking
picking this up as he came into the position too, was we really wanted people
to learn from each other, right?
It wasn't just all about accountability too. It wasn't just like,
oh, you didn't hit your numbers. We want to call you out on this call.
What we wanted it to be was, hey, well, you didn't hit it in HVAC in Dayton
(30:42):
market, but we did in this market, right?
So what did you guys do here last week that was working?
Or what happened here? Or how can we facilitate something there?
Or what communication do we need to improve? So a lot of it's just learning
the business and talking about the business because that's important.
Like, I don't think people spend enough time talking about the business sometimes,
and then people don't really get to learn the business because they don't talk
(31:05):
about the business. Does that make sense, Joe?
It does. You know, to me, the average organization that's mediocre.
Uh, learns it and says, I got it. And that's it.
You, you learn it and you keep learning it when, uh, cause I can see it all
the time in my thing. I have 33,000 people I coach, right?
(31:25):
So I can see it's like, man, I can't believe how far you guys are off after 10 years of doing this.
Like I had a company yesterday, but whether it's 10 years, I'm like,
man, you got to get back to the magic moments.
You got to get back to making the options. You got to get back.
We got to get back to this. And, uh, and you know, uh, and they're like, yeah, we do.
What the hell did we doing you know so in a way you'll learn
it but then there's the execution of it and then there's
(31:47):
the drop off that can occur i think that weekly thing you
guys did to me uh and you're right it wasn't punitive
or nobody was nobody left that meeting feeling like oh
my gosh i'm terrible i'm the worst man i'm the worst person everybody's like
oh good now i got an answer i've got that's what
i noticed about the meeting when i say accountability accountability is
mainly a a celebration of things that are working so other
(32:10):
people can share in the bounty of that would you agree with that yeah i
agree i think everybody thinks accountability is somebody didn't do it let's let's
let's shame them to it right and look i'm not opposed to
some shaming if you don't do stuff in this world i come from a little bit of
the old school and i say that in an appropriate way but you know i mean uh just
you do have to be able to speak it in front of people too it can't just be hidden
(32:30):
and if you didn't do it like okay well what are you going to do and what how
can we help you get there now again if we don't help and they don't get there
over time there's different different conversations, right?
But to answer your question from accountability is like, yeah,
I think we've always been pretty structured and consistent with things that we do.
Have we been as accountable all the time to the outcomes of things?
(32:52):
I mean, I guess I'd say maybe and maybe not at times, because I think it's the
real answer by saying just like, oh yeah, we're so accountable.
We have LMA, leadership and management accountability down so hard.
I mean, then be a lie, right? Because it's not. I don't know anywhere that I've
gone that does that. And if they do, then they're really at a level.
But I'm not saying that in the sense of trying to protect that we don't do it
(33:14):
well. It happens everywhere.
Everybody's standing in the same businesses, seeing the same problems,
dealing with the same things, right?
But I will say the thing that, again, that I mentioned earlier,
is just showing up every day is if the meeting's at 9.15,
you have the meeting at 9.15 every week, no matter how good
or bad it is until you get it right right and then sometimes you
might need to call time out and say okay we've had to call time outs
(33:36):
before say okay we need a time out for a week or two we need to recollect and
reset what we're going to do and why we're going to do it right and then
let's come back to this again but we always come back to it we never we never
say time out bye-bye we might say time out we need a week or two to reset refocus
and get aligned get everybody kind of communicated get some one-on-one conversations
maybe maybe resend out a little agenda to shake it up to change it and then
(33:59):
reset we always go go back to it.
Mondays, Wednesdays, I have a Wednesday meeting. The only reason why I didn't
have it this week was because last week was when you were here as training.
Every Wednesday at 7 a.m., I do a call with the whole entire field.
Every Wednesday at seven, right? The only reason why we didn't have it this
last Wednesday, well, Wednesday, we were there with you, but we do that every
(34:21):
Wednesday and we get on the call, myself, Mike, and all the leadership with all of the field.
And we talk to them, we tell them what's going on. We ask them,
we get feedback from them.
We push out information, you know, and we do it. And whether it's good or bad,
we, you know, some weeks are better than others.
Some are the communication is better or not. I guess my point is,
is that, but you're doing it all the time. and then people understand that.
(34:43):
And then you have to figure out a way to fill the void. If it's not good and
you're not getting what you want as a leader and as leaders in the business,
you've got to figure out how to make it better.
It's not your people. The people aren't going to have to go,
I'm going to tell you how to make this meeting better.
You can ask questions and get it. But at the end of the day,
it's your point to go out and ask those questions, then come back and make the
meeting better and more engaging.
Wow. That is a lot of information. And definitely, here's what I experienced
(35:09):
on that day when I saw this whole thing. I said, yeah, there was pretty much
everybody was succeeding.
Everybody was above the number one. Everybody had to commit to their own goal.
It wasn't like the leader said, here's your goal. It's like they made their own goal.
And I said, well, it's up to you. He said, how about this? And he goes like,
what's your goal? You have to tell us.
I noticed that it wasn't just doing it that way. Number two,
you know, so what can we do to get you there? What's the next step?
(35:33):
What's the game plan we can do? Do you have a game plan or do I need to help you with that?
The manager who had that had sort of a game plan. But I think he said,
you know what, I'm going to help you with it. Let's meet today at 2 o'clock.
And they met at that meeting, too. And they did come up with a game plan.
And everybody felt confident going forward.
Okay, let's do this together. And that's the thing I noticed about it is they're doing it together.
(35:55):
You've got plumbing, plumbers, electricians, HVAC technicians,
and excavators, and other divisions and office people.
But everybody's trying to work together. that there was no barriers between
the different leadership groups. Tell us about that, the remove the barriers.
And then we'll wrap this up. I know I'm probably going on too long,
(36:16):
but I just wanted to talk. That's one thing I thought was really cool about the lack of barriers.
Nobody was afraid to talk to another manager in a different department. Tell us about that.
Yeah, I think it's just always trying to have an open door policy as a company
in general. So I think that stems from that and making sure that it has been a learning.
Culture right together too through training and doing stuff
um and also realizing that we just have a lot of like
(36:38):
we do have a lot of new managers we're scaling we're growing we've
changed some leadership in the last year and some senior leadership
just due to growth and some opportunity for change and
move some people in different seats and new people coming up
in the seats from in other roles so we needed
them all to come together right and we need them to feel
that they can communicate and share between each other
(36:59):
and it's a it's a it's a we all win together
right we don't win individually yeah your department can get
celebrated for winning but at the end of the day like eco wins and loses
as one team um you know all the
department heads um are their comp is tied to
uh the total line like what
happens for them so it's not like just their line so it's like the whole department
(37:20):
has to win and then senior leadership is above that is to the company so that
we've tried to do alignments in those areas to make it that is a a win and lose
together within as much as you can, right? You still have people that need to have their apartments.
But I hope I'm answering that question that way, right? Yeah, no, it's a good answer.
I like it. I like to make sure everybody's working together is the answer.
(37:43):
Well, I tell you what, Aaron, I definitely feel you're going to get to that $100 million.
And I'm definitely happy to be part of that journey. And I can't wait to join
you there when you see that $100 million.
Here's the final question, and then we can wrap this up.
What happens when you get to that 100 million dollars now
what what's the what's the next thing after that
(38:04):
is it another goal reinvented again
or is this uh that's going to be let's let's keep
it in 100 million and hold it what do you think is the next step from there
i mean i think there's i mean of course there's another goal i mean i see 200
i see eco brand throughout ohio growing to 250 million uh you know i think as
we think about into the future we're fortunate enough to to have potentially
(38:25):
that big billion is the next kind of number, right? Billion under management.
So yes, there's other goals that have been mapped out.
And uh no that's the big goal that was the one right
so i'm more focused on just accomplishing the one that's it
and the journey that got us there and then taking all the
lessons learned to 100 million and hopefully taking those and moving that
into the next chapter of what we do and well that's 250 million to a billion
(38:48):
uh but no it's not just going to hold there then i don't think built that way
uh by any means but but again it's and when i say that it's like the world doesn't
it doesn't just stop there i understand it's like oh you hit that and now what right well Well,
you want to celebrate it and you want to reward yourself in a way of saying,
and all the people that helped you get there.
So there's a lot of work to do still to get there. We're going to,
(39:10):
we're targeted for 2025.
I gave myself a decade when I officially wrote it down. I gave myself one decade to do it.
So 2020, end of 2025 is the year we are on pace to do that.
And that just tells you how powerful a goal is when you set a goal and you set
a deadline and I wrote it down over 10 years ago.
And I said, I'm giving myself a decade to get to this goal and I'm going to
get to work year in and year out.
(39:31):
But you got to have a deadline on it uh so um but
no it's not the game's not over it's just the next level
of the game i can't wait till we come out i can't wait
till i uh i tell you what if you get to that 100 million mark i'm coming out
there on me this time okay okay hold me to it I'm coming out there on me because
i want to be part of that celebration and high five everybody and uh and i can
(39:54):
see it's going to happen Aaron thanks so much for taking your time to be on
this podcast i hope I hope you enjoyed this as much as I did.
Yeah, Joe. Thanks, man. I appreciate you over all the years, Joe. Thank you.
Thanks so much, everybody. We'll see you on the next podcast,
everyone. Have a good one.
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