Pig - S09 E72

Shoot the Hostage concludes its Nicolas Cage-a-thon with Pig (2021), a film that proves Nic Cage can do subtle, heartbreaking, and filthy all at once.

Join Dan and Sarah as they wade through the truffle-scented forest of Michael Sarnoski's directorial debut, discussing whether this is an anti-revenge movie or Cage: Pig in the City.

Expect spoilers as we discuss the film's themes, from grief and loss to the pretentious world of gourmet dining.

We'll be asking the big questions, like:

• Is Pig just John Wick with a truffle pig instead of a puppy?
• How does the film deconstruct the revenge movie genre?
• Why are the chapter titles named after fancy food (Rustic Mushroom Tart, Mom's French Toast, A Bird, a Bottle, and a Salted Baguette)?
• Is Adam Arkin related to Alan Arkin? (spoilers – yes, of course!)
• What does this film have to say about critics & the commodification of art? (A lot, apparently!)
• Was Nicolas Cage almost bitten to death by an untrained pig actor (we have the answer!)

If you're a fan of Nicolas Cage, indie films, or movies that make you think (and maybe cry a little), this episode is for you. We'll also be talking about the performances of Alex Wolff and Adam Arkin, plus Sarah's dream of living in the woods with a pet pig and reliable Wi-Fi.

Listen right until the end to find out which theme you can expect in season 10 which begins March 24th.

If you would like to know the lineup for season 10 ahead of time, the only place we announce our schedule is over on Patreon and you don't even need to be a paying member. Just sign up for a free membership and get access to the lineup. If you have some change rattling around in your pocket, we have a £3.00 a month tier where you'll get access to around 100 movie reviews plus all of our end of season wrap shows for seasons 1-9.   

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Episode Transcript

(00:00):
Hello and welcome to Shoot a Hostage with me, Dan, and my partner, Sarah. We're a movie podcast who talks about a different film each week based on a theme. We do swear and we do spoil the featured movie. So, only ever listen if you've seen the film or you don't care too much about spoilers. If you're a regular listener, you can just skip forward until you hear the intro music cuz you've heard all of this before. But if you are new to the show and you do enjoy what you hear, there are a couple of things you can do to help support the show. Firstly, make sure that you're subscribed on your podcast. player so you get notified when new shows drop on Mondays. Uh you could rate us five stars on Spotify, which couldn't be easier. You just hit the star icon below the show's artwork. Or if you have a spare few minutes, we'd love it if you could submit a review wherever you listen. Uh make sure you come follow us at swth_pod on social media. We are active on Instagram, threads, and Tik Tok. And lastly, the biggest thing you can do to help is tell a friend about the show. So that's about it. That's enough preamble from me. Uh Over to me and Sarah for this week's episode.

(00:01):
Uh, I suppose I owe you an apology.
You do?
I It's been a pretty crazy season.
Mhm. how Nicholas co sorry my Nicholas co season and you always correct me on that. Um yeah I don't know like we we're covering pig if you haven't guessed already like it's in the description and it was between this and a few others and maybe should have gone for something a bit more upbeat as a final episode cuz this is a little depressing.
A little depressing. Yeah, you could say that.
I mean I was pretty ruined after we watched it
by times.
Both times. Yeah. Was this was a second watch for both of us, was it?
Yeah. You you uh you blind bought it, didn't you?
I think so. Yeah. I think it's one that sort of snuck up on us and I saw the trailer and I was like, "Oh, have to buy that."
Yeah.
And yeah, it ruined me and I had exactly the same experience watching it for a second time. So, I don't know, man. I'm going to try really, really hard not to cry in this episode. When I say like it fully destroyed me.
I'm tearing up now just thinking about it.
Really?
I don't know why. Yeah, this film really really affects me emotionally.
And I'm the one that loves pigs.
I love pigs, too.
You I mean, but pigs are my favorite animal. Like,
yeah,
if I could just easily have a pet pig, I would do it. No question.
I mean, you can have a pet pig, but easily is maybe not part of that equation.

(00:22):
Easily was the key word in description. If it wasn't if it Yeah.
Um, so 2021, this film, so it's our newest Nicholas Cage movie. been going in chronological order this time. It was hard to narrow it down to eight. We'll talk about that more in our rap show perhaps over on our Patreon feed.
Yeah. I'm curious to know what didn't make the cut actually.
Well, everything else.
Yeah.
That he's done.
His entire other filmography.
Yeah. But
God, that's going to be a long show.
Yeah. Look, not going to go through every single one of his movies. Just other other ones I was considering really.
So, what what Dan's saying, you're you're promising to review every single other Nicholas Cage film in the rap show?
No. But what I am promising is that we'll cover another eight when we do Nicholas Cage 2.0.
Wow. Look, maybe a decade from now.
A decade from now when he's got another 130 movies out.
Yes, exactly. Assuming I live that long.
There'll probably probably be a The Rock sequel by then.
Probably. Maybe we'll get the Face Off sequel that's been teased for so long.
Yeah. f****** Wingard. Pull your finger out then. What are you doing?
King Kong stuff.
Oh. Yeah,
Godzilla stuff.

(00:43):
No, just do face off in it.
Well, I'd rather see that from Adam Wingard. Yeah,
I think so. So, yeah, a little bit of a little bit of a downer to end on really, but it is a very good movie. So, on one on the one hand, I'm like wish I'd chosen Unbearable Weight of Massive Talent or something. On the other hand, it is an excellent movie and I think there's probably quite a bit to talk about. It's
it's a it's an unusual movie. Um, it was written and directed by Michael Sonos Sonoski.
Sonoski. saying that right.
I believe so.
Who uh to date has made two features, correct?
Mhm. I think so. Yeah. Um most recently did A Quiet Place day one.
Yeah. A Quiet Place day cat.
Yeah. He clearly loves animals.
Yeah. So this would have been his first his first feature then I guess. And uh
which is wild.
It's impressive. He's he's obviously done a few shorts before that. I was looking on letter boxed earlier. Um but wrote and directed this one. I'm guessing having Nicholas Cage on board it. As with a lot of these indie films, you get your star on board. That is often the thing that gives project momentum and people start to come on board and finance the project. I imagine this probably was the case. I don't know if you've seen anything or read anything that backs it up or
I couldn't find a huge amount of information out there to be honest. I know the budget was very low, but I couldn't find an exact figure.
Okay.
But there were there were budgetary constraints, so I don't I imagine this is probably something that Nick Cage did for a lower fee.
I would I would hazard a guess. that he's the sort of actor who who does stuff for the love of it rather than just to pay bills these days anyway.
Yeah,
I think I think that we've we've talked about his bill paying era.
Yeah, we have in in great detail. But yeah, I I can't imagine the budget for this was huge. I I do know that it was a 20-day shoot, which is ridiculous,
um in Oregon. And yeah, so the budget wouldn't have been terribly high. I'm sure his fee was relatively low. Um and it's not a huge car. either it's Nicholas Cage. It's Scott Wolf.

(01:04):
Not Scott Wolf. Uh
from Party of Five.
Scott Wolf from Go. Not that guy.
Um Alex Wolf.
Yeah.
From who's in Hereditary and uh the jungle one. What's the jungle one? Jimi.
Jungle. Right. Yeah.
Jimi. He was in that, isn't he?
He was also in A Quiet Place day one.
Was he?
He was.
I've seen that movie
quite recently.
I I'm sure. Yeah, you're correct. I believe you. Um Out of the two of us, I'm not the one with face blindness. So,
or a terrible memory.
I was just looking up on Letbox. He was also in Oppenheimer along with everybody else in the
Yeah. Every other white male actor in Hollywood.
Yeah, that's right. Um Old He was in Old that Might Shalan movie where
Yeah.
Um Thorbreds,
was he?

(01:25):
Yeah, apparently. So,
see, I don't remember him in that.
Yeah,
I quite like that film as well. Oh,
but but quite a few quite a few movies and um
good in this. I liked his character in this or or sort of grew to like his character rather and that's one of the strengths I think maybe we'll come back to the characterizations in this.
Adam Arin.
Yeah,
baby Arkin.
You don't see crop up that often anymore.
I don't think I've ever seen him. I must have seen him before in other stuff, but I I didn't recognize him. I looked on letter boxed, saw Adam Arin, I went I wonder if he's related to Alan. You know the answer to this? Obviously, he is.
He's a Nepo baby.
Yeah. Who isn't Nepo baby?
Well, he's a Nepo old man.
Yeah, it's a Maybe Alex Wolf is Scott Wolf's kid.
I don't think so.
I'd be very surprised. Um, yeah. The last thing I remember seeing Adam Arin in it might have been like Halloween H2O like 25 years ago.
Oh, yeah. That memorable movie.
Yeah. Or H20. I'll be crucified by the horror fans. It's H20. See, cuz it's 20 years after the Never mind.
What is that about? Like they It was Wasn't it marketed as H2O?
I I remember that. Yeah.

(01:46):
Halloween water.
Yeah.
Why?
I don't know.
Because it sounds cool,
apparently.
Is that the one where um Culio kicked someone in the head?
Um no, that was Halloween Resurrection. Was it Culio?
No, it was Buster Rhymes.
It was Buster Rhymes. Yeah, that was Halloween Resurrection. That was terrible.
Yeah. I have I seen that probably. Who cares? Um, but Buster Rhymes isn't in this movie. It would have been a strange movie if he was.
It would.
Although I do know where I would have put him.
Um,
maybe we'll talk about that later.
Yeah.
One thing I think it's important to say about this film early on
is I think some of the marketing, from memory anyway, I think some of the marketing maybe did it a bit of a disservice because a lot of people, myself included, were kind of under the impression that this was going to be some sort of John Wick style revenge movie where, you know, guy with a past ambiguous history, you know, has um animal taken from him and then seeks revenge. That's that's kind of how it was sold. I don't know if you remember.
I I don't remember specifically, but I do remember having the expectation that this is probably going to be an action movie where Nicholas Cage does a big revenge for someone taking his pick. Yeah.
And it wasn't that at all. So, they must have they must have
It's kind of an anti-revenge movie if anything.

(02:07):
Yeah. Um, and I think I think on the one hand, you're right. It it it did do it a disservice marketing it that way. On the other hand, I kind of love it. Like from my I can understand people going in expecting that and wanting that and not not getting what they wanted from this movie.
So, you know, it's probably not the greatest decision on that basis. But for me personally, I was going in expecting that, got something completely different and was really surprised, pleasantly surprised because those types of action movies, there are good ones, there are bad ones, but they're all the same pretty much with Yeah,
John Wick is, you know, is above a lot of movies because of the the technique and the commitment to the stunts and all of that stuff. It does sit above many of those types of revenge movies and they have their place and they're fun, but beat for beat, you know what's going to happen.
But I I think that sort of informed a lot of people's experience with this film because we're so used to those tropes because they've been done to death. I think a lot of people went in expecting exactly that.
I me included.
Um but I was just happy to be uh wrongfooted. Is that the right term? I don't know.
I guess so. Yeah. It did sort of pull the rug out from under
Yeah. some audience members.
Obviously, we watch a lot of movies so you kind of often know how things are going to play out. Um Um, and I didn't know how this was going to play out at all. Now, sticking on the comparisons to your bog standard action revenge flick, I do think that this plays with the tropes of those types of movies as well. It does it's kind of structured like one of those movies in a way. Yeah.
But it does it differently. And that's what I love because remember watching it the first time going, "Oh, this is the bit where he's going to meet the first baddies, build his way up to the big baddies." And he sort of does do that. Yeah,
but not in the way that you expect. And it's certainly not an action movie. And I just I respect it so much for that. I think it's an like anti- revenge action movie. Yeah.
But using the same sort of structure. I think it's pretty genius really.
No, I agree. I agree. I just think the marketing maybe did the film a little bit dirty. Maybe.
I mean, it's misselling it, isn't it really? To to a degree. So, I could, like I say, I can understand someone going in wanting that type of thing, not getting it, and being pissed.
I totally understand that and I think that's, you know, perfectly reasonable reaction to that.
Um, I just was happy to be f***** with.
I was happy that it wasn't what I thought it was going to be and it was something completely different. It's not like really anything I'd seen before, but using those kind of tropes and techniques that you often get in those types of movies
to sort of send you down a wrong path. And it's uh yeah, it's just really well done, I thought.
Yeah, I think it's it's a rare movie that affects me. quite on the level that this did. Like I was reading articles about the movie earlier and I got tears in my eyes.
Did you?
It's incredible the lasting impression that this movie's had on me. That's so rare. There is something really special about it.

(02:28):
Yeah, it's it's unlike anything else.
It's very quiet and like contemplative. And you're right in saying that it does sort of follow the same beats as a lot of revenge movies, but I don't know, kind of deconstructs them in a way. which is interesting because the the topic of deconstruction comes up a few times in the film as well.
Oh, interesting.
So, I'd be surprised if that wasn't intentional.
I think it absolutely was intentional. I think this film is is very intentional like throughout. I think it knows exactly what it's doing. I think it knows exactly what you thought it was going to be.
Yeah.
And and it plays with those things.
It must have been a strong script from from the word go as well because I know um Nick Cage was pretty adamant about coming on the project quite early. Yes, I heard that he wanted to play the pig though
originally.
He could have done. We've already discussed his range. So, yeah, he could have played the pig.
Yeah,
successfully.
I' I'd buy that for a dollar.
But, yeah, I think in his mind I think especially after Mandy, which we talked about last week, this was kind of his return to proper acting to kind of prove that he could do a realistic portrayal of somebody rather than more of caricature
Allah where we started which was like Vampire's Kiss maybe.
Yeah. Which is I mean that's one of the reasons why this season has been such a journey which is reflected in Cage's own career. It's you've got these ups and these downs and these big performances and these more subtle performances like this. I think this is a really good example of maybe the best example of a really subtle and thoughtful Nicholas Cage performance. Like we've spoken about it many times in a season where he gets criticized for being too large and an over actor and some people would have seen maybe a couple of his movies and gone and say he's a bad actor. They're wrong because he's an amazing actor but and I think something like this just proves that proves that point and he knows when to do the thing. More often than not it like like we said before doesn't always land his performances. He takes big swings and it's not it doesn't always work but
I think he knows for the most part where to be large where to be more subtle.
Yeah. I mean, prior to this season, back when I knew very little about the man himself, I was always adamant that he's a really good actor when he wants to be.
And I think that's sort of the key. I think maybe when he connects to the material or when he feels like he can collaborate with the director, you can tell when he's invested, I think.
Um, and and never more so than here. He's heartbreaking. There are so many moments during this film where Oh god, I just wanted to give the man a hug. I maybe ask him to have a shower first.
Yeah, I was going to say like maybe have a shave and clean your top that presumably used to be white.

(02:49):
Oh god, don't. Um although having said that, that is kind of one of the things that I love about this movie is that unlike a lot of revenge movies, you have that sort of tooling up scene. Like obviously to go back to John Wick, you know, he puts on the suit and
yeah, he digs up that that safe, doesn't he? The first one. Yeah.
Takes the sledgehammer to the floor. Um, we don't have that in this, which I love because his priority is literally just getting his pig back.
I love it. I love it. Um, but anyway, to go back to the start, this film is in three chapters, much like Mandy.
How strange. And in this one, the chapters are sort of titled after dishes.
Yeah, I'd forgotten. that actually. Yeah,
I wrote them down if you're interested.
What you got?
So, there's part one, which is rustic mushroom tart.
Is that what he's making in that pan?
I believe so. Yeah, when she gives some some to the pig.
Yeah.
I love her.
The last supper.
Oh, don't stop it. That's I'm No. It's too soon, Dan.
Part two is mom's French toast and deconstructed scallops
presumably with stale bread.
Um, he says that, doesn't he?
Yeah.
Yeah.
I didn't know that.

(03:10):
No, I didn't. I was never aware. Um, and part three,
a bird, a bottle, and a salted baguette.
All meals that he eats
that he Yeah, that he eats and cooks. Right. He does.
Or is the is the middle one the one at the restaurant?
I believe that's the one at the restaurant because that's when he says you're supposed to use stale bread,
right? And that's when he has the conversation with the guy that he used to know about his whole restaurant. is about deconstructing
popular dishes, isn't it?
Um, and in doing so, he sort of deconstructs the man's reality.
Yeah.
He has a little mini breakdown at the table. I love that scene. Um, but yeah, it's an interesting choice. I wonder why that's become a thing. I feel like the color out of space did that as well. Maybe they were Nicholas Cage's suggestions.
Yeah, perhaps
maybe he was just like chapters. I'm really into chapters at the moment.
Yeah. So going to the beginning of the movie then it begins with Cage living in the forest with the pig and they're looking for truffles and it's the first maybe 10 or 15 minutes it's just those those two just milling about in the forest.
I would happily have watched that for an hour and a half. I'm not going to lie.
All right. I don't know if I could I was I was getting ready for it to for things to happen to be honest.
I was digging that. That pig was so cute.
Do you know what the pig was called?
No. Do you?
No idea.
Oh, I do know that because because the budget was so low, as I mentioned earlier, they could not afford a fully trained pig. So, they just had to hire a regular pig. And because of that, and because of the the shoot schedule being only 20 days, um it kept biting Nicholas Cage.

(03:31):
Um and after one particularly nasty bite, he was sort of joking about the things that have happened to him on sets, like, "Oh, he's been lit on fire. All these things have happened." He was like, "But I'm going to die of sepsis from a pig bite, aren't I?"
We wasn't actually fire for Ghost Rider, was he?
Um, yeah, there was no CGI.
That's That's impressive.
And at the end of Wikman.
Well, yeah.
Um, yeah. So, not a show pig.
Oh, interesting. Yes, it is amazing that they managed to get any footage at all with with an untrained pig.
I know. It was so good though.
So, they just found like a pig just milling about in a forest and went, "Do you want to be in a movie pig?" Yeah.
I don't I don't think there was a conversation. I assume Pigs are very clever. You don't know that.
They are very clever. Yeah, they're sort of similar to dogs in intelligence, I believe.
Yeah, possibly.
Possibly. Your favorite animal. You should know this.
Well, I'm not a pig expert. I just like them. All right.
Um, interestingly, pigs aren't always used for truffle hunting. Um, dogs tend to be preferred these days because they're easier to train not to eat the truffles.
Okay. Yeah, that makes sense.
And apparently in some parts of the world it's actually illegal to use pigs for truffle hunting.
But I do know cuz I I was so interested as to why somebody would steal a truffle pig. Obviously I the answer is always going to be money. Whenever anything nefarious happens, the answer is always money, right? But I didn't realize they go for about 25 grand a trained truffle pig.
Okay. A truffle's expensive then?
I think so.

(03:52):
Yeah, cuz they're sort of
I got the impression from this movie they're like a luxury item.
They're a delicacy. Yeah,
as far as I'm concerned, you can buy a pack of truffle crisp for a quid.
Like I don't know like what
um is there actual truffle or is it truffle flavoring though?
That's a good point. I don't know. I don't these all these questions I don't know the answers to.
Well, I mean in a film about food well one that's one of the themes.
We should really have the answers. But um yeah, so 25 grand that's a lot of money.
Yeah,
cuz I did wonder like What was it? Was it sort of a theft for the long game? Like just so they could get their own truffles or was the intent to sell the pig?
I'm still kind of unclear on that.
What the the people that that robbed the pig? Yeah.
The pig has the pig got a name in the movie. Is it just pig?
It's just pig.
So well, yeah, for money cuz they they saw uh Cage's um like business or whatever and I suppose they wanted in on it. But he's he's trading truffles for like tins of beans or something, isn't he?
So yeah, he's not really He's just funding his very very basic lifestyle.
Yeah.
Which I can get behind. Let's go back to a barter system.
Yeah. But I don't really want to live in a forest without the internet.
It doesn't work.

(04:13):
One frying pan and some cassette tapes.
No thank you. Bored. I'm bored thinking about it.
You would be there for two minutes. An estimate that long of two minutes. Before you went, I'm bored now. What? I guarantee it.
Yeah. I'd get bored on a walk to the forest.
So, this is not the lifestyle for you.
Even though it comes with a pig?
No.
No. Still no.
I'll go and visit the pig.
I don't want to live in the forest.
Fair enough. Um, well, you can visit me and the pig when I move out into the forest.
I'll I'll have your truffles if you if you're going truffle hunting. I'll have I'll take some truffles off your hands.
Um, okay. Only if you bring me fried egg crisps. as a swap.
Yeah, we can do that. We can trade.
All right. Okay. So, this sort of leads to a really really harrowing scene where people we don't really see them. Sort of shadowy figures break into his um cabin.
Yeah. You don't see you don't figure out who they are until later in the movie.
Yeah. They knock him out and they they steal the pig. And oh my god, the pig's screams will haunt me forever. I really really hope that that was like ADR pig ADR and that that wasn't I don't I don't know. It was horrifying. Do you not think?
Uh it was unpleasant. Yeah, I didn't enjoy hearing those sounds. Um it was defin they there's no way that they tortured a pig to get those sounds.
No, I know. You're not allowed anymore. This isn't the 80s.
Even though they were probably all tucking into bacon sandwiches in the catering. No animals were harmed during the making of this movie unless they were in bacon sandwiches.
So Funnily enough, it's interesting that you should say that

(04:34):
Michael Sonoski did try to implement a no pork product rule on set.
Oh, but the f****** electricians kicked off, didn't they?
But he Yeah, he didn't win. He didn't win that one sadly.
We were saying earlier about how it sort of follows a lot of the tropes of a revenge movie, of an action movie. I think one of the best examples of that is when he he sort of enlists uh Is it Amir? Who who Ale Alex Wolf's character name? He enlists him to to help him find his pig
and his douchebag car,
which I love, unfortunately. But yeah, yellow Camaro. And they go to some sort of chef fight club situation.
Some sort of weird underground bum fights speak easy. It's very strange.
What's a bum fight?
Oh, were you not on the internet in the early 2000s?
No.
Probably for the best. It was disgusting. It was gross. It was like people would make videos of um just them offering homeless people money to fight each other.
Oh, gross.
Yeah. Awful.
Oh, bum. Right. Okay. Now I Now I'm getting it. I've not heard of it, but now I'm getting it.
Right. I think it was mostly an American thing, but fully degenerate. Makes
sense. Horrible.
Yeah. Um but there there's this weird sort of fight club situation and I remember the first time that we watched it and it led to that point and I'm sort of going, "Ah, okay, here we go. This is going to be the bit where he pulls out his spinny knives or he just does some kung fu at someone or whatever. But no, he just takes a beating and you get the sense that the people that are beating on him uh know him
and really want to do this and have really wanted to do this for a long time.
Well, he wrote his name on the wall, didn't they? And there were some sort of like gasps of recognition.
Yeah.
Um and the guy who was punching him seemed really reluctant to do it at first.

(04:55):
Yeah.
Before super getting into it.
I got the impression that he was perhaps afraid of him.
Yeah. um to some degree. But yeah, obviously really wanted to do that cuz really gets into it and then they have to pull him away. But when the timer runs out, the the bloke who's who's managing it all was like, "No, let's let's see how this plays out." And they all seem to want to see him get beaten up quite a bit.
And um it just gives you a lot of uh backstory without really saying it, without really telling you much, like telling you. It's showing you all of these characters and how they're reacting to him.
It's it's really good storytelling, I think. No, I agree. I agree. And to be honest, if I hadn't watched two seasons of the bear, that scene might make less sense to me. But knowing how intense that world of like Michelin starred restaurants and, you know, best chefs in the world is, that kind of makes more sense to me because yes, he obviously was really renowned in his profession at one point, but that also probably meant he was a dick to a lot of people. Like a bit of a ball buster, maybe.
Yeah. I mean, I haven't seen the bear, but I know that chefs are twats. Like, we we've all seen Gordon Ramsay throwing a frying pan at someone cuz their spaghetti is not al dente or whatever. You know, he goes, "What are you, an idiot sandwich?"
Yeah. Is that That's a meme, isn't it? Yeah.
Yeah. I think I've heard of that one.
Yeah. He's probably the best example of that.
I couldn't name you another chef.
Anthony Warl Thompson.
Yeah. There you go.
That's two.
Yeah. Um Oh, Angley Harriet. That's on. He seems nice though. Unless he's not. Um, who else is a chef? No, that's it. I think
there aren't a huge number of like celebrity chefs. I don't think
there were. I feel like in the ' 90s you couldn't f****** move without seeing a ready steady cook or a can't cook, won't cook. It's like Yeah, but you're cooking though, aren't you?
Was Lloyd Grossman a chef type person?
Yeah, he probably
before he did Through the Keyhole.
Yeah, he I think he lived in the keyhole, didn't he? And he was the chef in the keyhole. I don't know.

(05:16):
It's not the show I remember.
That was weird. Is that the one where they went to a house and you had to guess whose house it is from the stuff that they owned?
Maybe it was sort of the precursor to MTV's cribs.
I suppose you're not guessing though. You know immediately whose house it is cuz they're like, "Yeah,
this is all my stuff."
Yeah. I'm Chzny Hawk. Welcome to my crib.
Chzn Hawk.
Yeah. I couldn't I couldn't think of a more contemporary name.
Nobody's thought about Chznney Hawks in 35 years apart from you.
He's the one and only
apparently. Yeah.
It might be he's a celebrity chef now and we don't know about it.
When he said I am the one and only, he was referring to hit. That was his one and only hit.
Yeah.
Yeah. I do really enjoy that scene though for the reasons that you've said.
And but that like I say that was a part in a movie where I thought we were going to do a sharp left turn into a proper action movie
and you would think that I would be disappointed in that and probably I pro perhaps I was a little bit but as the movie went on and it the more we got more context more of the story unfolded I really started to respect it playing with those expectations and the way it wanted me to think that's what it was doing when in reality it was kind of doing the exact opposite of that like everyone watches a revenge action revenge movie. Let's have some popcorn. Let's watch people you know do a snap people's arms in half or whatever and pull a leg off and throw it into traffic. But and that's what kind of what you come to expect from these things, those exact examples. Those only those two examples, those two.
Um, but what I what I thought was really clever about it is that it does the opposite in that he's not going around kicking people to death. He's either taking a beating, he is having that conversation with the chef that we mentioned where he's deconstructing,
eviscerating him verbally.
Yeah. But like getting to the core of the man.
Um, and Not in a

(05:37):
Yeah, it wasn't spiteful.
Not in spiteful way. It's like he's re he's like, "Is this what you want to do?" Really? Like because you said that you wanted to open a pub.
It's like he's trying to reach into the soul of these people and get to the real like nugget of human aspects of them, but he's doing it kind of with love. And that is no more apparent than in the the final the final act of the movie, which perhaps we'll get to, where he's having a conversation with Adam Arin and Well, we definitely will.
Like, we'll we'll get to that point. Like, you expect it to if you're thinking it's an action where you're expecting it to go a certain way and it doesn't. And he's just cooking and he's putting all of his love and his effort into cooking and meals. And that's I don't know. I think that's this really clever way of approaching a project. I think it's super hard to do an original movie these days. Like everything's been done. I don't but I don't think there's anything really quite like this.
I to me this felt like I don't know where Michael Sonoski is from. I don't know if he's American. I assume he's American, but this to me felt like it should have had subtitles. Um,
in the best possible way.
Yeah, absolutely. I did read somewhere that it was originally supposed to be set maybe in France or Italy
or Spain or somewhere. Um, but that didn't end up happening for whatever reason. I don't know.
But that wouldn't have surprised me, especially just sort of in that world of gourmet cooking. I kind of associate that with those countries more than I do with America, maybe.
Yeah. I mean, America, you get some squirty cheese on some stale bread and a massive f****** turkey leg for no reason. It's food in America's I'm sorry. It's terrible,
which is interesting because they think our food is terrible.
Yeah. Well, each to their own, I guess.
But going quickly going back to that scene in the restaurant where he's kind of You said he's kind of saying that love. Do you think that's true?
I I I do. Yeah. Cuz
I I don't necessarily agree with that.
Why not?
I don't think it's coming from a a spiteful or a negative place, but I don't know if I would go as far as to say it's done with love. I think it's just done with honesty and it's done ultimately to kind of serve his own ends because his singular focus is to get his pig back and he knows that this is potentially a route that he can take to do that. I don't think it's sort of I'm I'm going to break this man and then rebuild him with love. I think it's just honesty. I think it's brutal honesty.
But I I kind of see it as more of a tough love situation. You have to be brutally honest. You can't sugarcoat things in many situations. I feel like sometimes if people are living a lie like that, he he he's kind of living the life that everyone expects from him, what the critics want. Um you know, the f****** b******* about deconstructing dishes and the whole theme of this movie about how how to consume art and being told how to consume art and what's good and what's bad. I mean, in reality, it's you should just do what you love and that's really that's it. There's nothing more to it than that. So, I feel like he's being I feel like Cage is trying to get to the the heart of his character. Um, yes, he does want to find his pig and that's definitely something, but I feel like as well that he just wants everyone to start living more authentically for their own good.
Strip away the b*******.
Yeah. And and that's why that's kind of what me when I say he's doing it from a place of love. Not that
necessarily he's I don't think he's particularly concerned about hurting people's feelings,

(05:58):
but he wants people to be more genuine
and I think he he probably sort of gave up on that and went to live in the forest for 15 years and now he's back in the city and he's seeing all of this stuff going on. He's just like, why are you guys living like this? Like come on, be true. Be honest with yourselves. This is not what you want to do. You want to do this. And he says to him, what was it that you wanted to do all those years ago? I wanted to open up why didn't you do that? And he just breaks. And it was difficult in that moment, but I feel like ultimately that chef is now going to probably quit his job and try and do something that he loves, whether it's uh successful, financially, however you measure success,
no matter how many stars you're awarded.
Yeah, it's b*******. And and and he figured that out a long time ago, I think. And that's what that's another thing that I love about this this film is that it is one of the themes of it is mentioned about how you consume art and like The art in this case is cooking and how you prepare a meal and how you enjoy it and and the kind of the like a a two fingers up to the critics because all this Michelin star bollocks, you know, people go to a restaurant and they get a tiny pee on a plate and you squeeze the pee and then they're like 500 quid please for that pee and you go out and you go and get some nuggets from McDonald's to fill yourself up. It's bollocks and people fall for it and I think that he's figured that out, you know. Not to say that you, you know, you shouldn't pay good money for good food, but I don't know. I I find that whole thing really odd. That whole I'm not a master chef person. I can't stand it. Um, you know, you have a They're so pretentious. They put a spoon of food in their mouth and they're like, "Yeah, I'm getting flavors of like like the slates like the white rocks of Dover and it makes me think of seagulls doing their crap on a homeless person. I don't just this these weird f****** phrases and things that people come out with. It's absolute bollocks.
It's meaningless. Do you like it? Yeah. Okay.
Well,
is it sustenance? Yes.
You So, you view food in a different way to a lot of people.
I like food.
Well, I know you like food, but but as you've just sort of demonstrated, I don't know. Not that I have any sort of sophisticated palette. Let me point that out now. I do not. But I do think Cooking is an art form.
I 100% agree.
But I I also think that there is a tendency to over complicate things and to try and search for innovation and perfection
when just really good is brilliant.
Really good is enough. And
it's not only enough, it's brilliant. Really good.
Yeah. But it's like when
you have to want to be the best.
But when it comes to art, there is there's really like It's difficult. Obviously, we're on a podcast and we talk about movies and you know I I don't necessarily think that you there's such thing as 2 is a perfect movie. Speed is a perfect movie to me, but somebody else is going to watch it and go they're rubbish or whatever. There's no such thing really as as perfect art because it's all subjective.
Well, yeah. It's in the eye of the beholder. Absolutely. Some people like Terrifier, for example.
So, if you're striving um for per to to per for perfection when it comes to art, you're never you're never gonna win because there's always going to be someone that doesn't like what you're doing. So, what's the point? Just make what you want to make. Yeah.
And enjoy that. Don't worry about what the critics are saying. Don't worry about what f****** um the twat from Master Chef Greg, whatever his name is.

(06:19):
Greg Wallace.
Who f****** gives a s*** what Greg Wallace thinks for a start?
Well, he's he's disgraced at the moment anyway.
Yeah, but he should have been disgraced before. It's Like I don't it's the the thing that drives me mad is the pretentiousness of art. The people that that just really want to I don't know sometimes I feel like it's a bit of a
oh I feel like a lot of times it come it comes down to ego. Like you know when you're sitting at a restaurant and the waiter will pour wine into your glass and you're supposed to do that little thing where you f****** spin it around you taste it and you go oh yeah that's good.
That tastes like wine.
I don't know you do. it. You do the little dance cuz you have to, but I don't f****** know. Why are we doing this? Is pointless.
Well, I got super into coffee during lockdown and I started ordering different coffees online and there was always like the flavor profile of like grapefruit and hazelnut and chocolate and I'm just like it tastes like coffee. It's
coffee.
It's nice.
Yeah,
don't get me wrong.
It's not like But I'm I'm not like against descriptors and you know,
of course not. And if that brings you pleasure, have at it. You're not harming anybody. It's the superiority complex that's attached to it. Oh, you drink Nest Cafe, so you're worse than me.
Yeah, you you can only drink cabs from the year 5,000 BC or whatever. Like it's it's that Are you enjoying your four quid bottle of wine from Aldi? Yes. Good.
Brilliant. Yeah.
And there's nothing there's nothing more to it.
Yeah. You might have more of a headache in the morning than the person drinking the 45 bottle of wine,
but you know each to their own.
Yeah. And but it's that kind of the superiority of judging art and thinking that you are the be all and end all. Like what you say goes
and the pretentiousness of the phrases. And I just think it's so dumb.

(06:40):
It's pompous. I will say that. But but again,
I don't know. Whatever brings you pleasure is fine as long as it's not illegal.
I think it's always important to point out.
I would I would my wording would be immoral. Okay, fair. Um, yeah. All right. Um,
let's not dive into that any further.
But sort of bringing it back to movies, it's kind of akin to those people who if you don't like a highbrow movie, they say, "Well, you just didn't get it then."
Yeah,
it's the same thing as that to me.
That's kind of exactly what I'm talking about. Like, I enjoy our discussions that we have about films. Don't in any way think that we're critics. We just have a chat about a film whether we liked it or we didn't like it and we tried to figure out why those things might be true for us.
But it's it's it's the it's the it's it's it's Gordon Ramsay going your f****** pastor is s*** and I I think that you should close. I think it's I think it's really damaging for for one thing. Yeah.
Potentially for people to try and strive for this perfection and never reach it because it's impossible.
Well, it's why I always had beef with people like Roger Eert. is he wasn't a filmmaker, but he would sit there and write off entire genres of films because he didn't like them.
Yeah, you you're maybe an expert in your field and you can talk about technically what was good and bad, but you can't talk about, oh, this film was bad, therefore it shouldn't resonate with anyone.
Yeah.
And I know we joke a lot on this podcast like, oh, if you didn't like that, your opinion is wrong. But it is a joke. It's always a joke.
Of course. Of course it is.
I like some absolute garbage.
Yeah. And we'll probably dig into that a bit more next season.
Topical.
But getting back to that scene after that detour.
That was quite a detour. Yeah.

(07:01):
Um this feels like therapy. I feel like we both needed to have that conversation somehow.
Yeah.
I feel a bit lighter now.
I think that's that's been kind of bubbling away in my subconscious maybe for the past week or so. One of the things that I really sort of got from this movie, particularly second time watching it,
I think it hates critics.
I wouldn't go that far, but I think it's definitely got something to say about critics. Yeah.
Yeah. I Well, I think it has something a lot to say about critics, and I think it has a lot to say about um
food.
Food. Yeah. About how you shouldn't be told how to consume the art. Obviously, that we've got Alex, Alex Wolf, um Amir in his his yellow Camaro, and he's listening to classical music, but the classical music has a voice over that's telling him what's great about classical music.
This is why this is good.
Yeah. It's like, yeah, it is good, but just enjoy it. Don't like he's trying to figure out why it's good so that he can explain to other people why it's good.
Yeah. Because
pointless
because there's this um connection to having money and being of a certain status and having taste.
Yeah. And links to the wine as well.
Yeah.
Exactly the same sort of thing. I listen to classical music occasionally. I don't f****** know why, but it's usually Han Zimmer.
It's usually Han Zimmer. It's usually the Pirates of the Caribbean that
Yeah, it's always Han Zimmer. It's not usually Han Zimmer. It's only
What's um What movie were we watching the other day that had Adam Mozart in it and you loved it?
This. Oh, it was this.

(07:22):
It was this. It's my favorite my favorite piece of Mozart music. Yeah, it's in a bunch of movies.
It's also in Lords of Salem. That's for some reason the thing I take away from that movie.
Well, I'm I'm sure we'll talk about that at some point.
But going back to that scene, so the um as you sort of said, this is this is quite um an intricately put together film. You didn't phrase it quite like that, but like
No, you're way more articulate. My f****** goodness,
but the the name of the restaurant that they're in is Uritysy.
And I recognize the word from I think it's Greek mythology. And I I was just like, well, that obviously means something. You know, this isn't a film where anything's just for the sake of it. It's not just thrown in there.
So, I I was sort of somewhat familiar with the story of Uritysy, but ultimately it's kind of the message of that is to not look back, which I think is ultimately the theme of this film. Um, because obviously Uritysy was the wife of Orpheus,
Lawrence Fishburn.
Orpheus. Okay. She was um she was coveted and pursued by Aristas. Um but she died from a poisonous snake bite.
Nasty.
Yeah. Um but Orpheus was so heartbroken he tried to retrieve her from the underworld. Um and the one sort of stipulation to to be able to bring her back to life was to not look back at her as they were journeying out from the underworld. But he couldn't resist. He looked back. Um, and that was it. She she went back to the underworld,
right?
But I like to put a happy spin on this film. Um, ultimately the story ends in that they were reunited in death.
Okay.
I don't necessarily believe in an afterlife, but in the context of this film, I would quite like to believe that Nicholas Cage was reunited with Pig in
Yeah. with with Pig. And And he's Is it Is this a dead wife situation again?
Yeah, I believe it's a dead wife situation. Yeah.
Yeah. They don't really go into it.
No, because it's a really economical script.
Yeah.

(07:43):
Although, having said that, I did read online that this film was originally an hour longer.
Okay.
Which wow. Um, I would quite like to watch that cut of it. Although, I do think the film is perfect as it is.
I think it's it might be a bit much. The fact that this is a 92minute movie, I think really works for it. It's really economical. I think maybe it's outstanding. It's worth If it's if it's 2 and 1/2 hours, I think that's too much.
I would still like the option of a director's cut.
I think I would be curious just from a perspective of comparing the two,
what works about the 90minute version versus the 2 and 1 half hour version. Um, more is not always better.
True. True. But I I am quite confident in Michael Sonosk's vision,
so I I'm just interested to see what was taken out. But um but yeah, ultimately it was the distributor that said it was boring.
Was it uh was it Neon?
It was Neon. Yeah. Who Neon are kind of overtaking A24 for me
as being like the most exciting distributor at the moment.
I don't know. A24 are still pretty strong, aren't they?
Oh, they're still up there. Yeah, of course. They've got a great track record, but Neon are pretty exciting, I think.
But um yeah, they they said it was too long, too boring. TLDDR cut some stuff. out and then that's the version that we got.
Right. I do think that this version really does work very well. I like I say, I think any more than 90 minutes, I think we're
we're sticking around too long for this. This is this is a kind of a difficult movie to to to watch thematically. It's very quiet in places. It's very thoughtful.
It's very soft in places and brutal in other places. And I think any more than 90 minutes. I don't know if I'm sitting through it. I'll be honest.
Okay, that's fair.
I do think it's a good movie, don't get me wrong, but I don't want to see a longer version. I think I think 90 minutes is perfect for this.
But you do want to see a longer version of the Wicker Man remake.

(08:04):
Yeah,
let that sink in, viewer.
The Chronicles of Viewer
and The Chronicles of Riddic.
Yeah, apparently there's a longer version of that that I need to see.
No, it's awful. Maybe the longer version's better.
That's what That's my point.
Maybe they removed the sexism, the misogyny, and the homophobia in that version.
No, Vin Diesel's still in it.
Oh s***.
I mean, I'll watch it cuz Katie Sackov's in it, but still.
Yeah. And Carl Urban and Colum Fior Fior and Keith David.
One of the columns
column.
Um, yeah. So, we're kind of getting to the end of the film now. And as you quite rightly pointed out, it's sort of the showdown or what would be the showdown.
Yeah.
The boss level.
Yeah. The boss level like in action movies, you're kind of working you start with the muscle and you kind of work your way up. We spoke about perhaps a similar thing in the Mandy Show last week. Not going to spoil that in case you haven't seen the movie or listened to the show, but
yeah, in your traditional action movie, you're starting off with your your Alfie Alfie Allens and you're building up to like uh the boss that was in that movie.
Who's the guy? Storm Air.
No, it's not Storm Air.

(08:25):
No, he's in two. But you know, you get the point.
Yeah, the guy that's not Storm Wasn't it the guy um from the girl with the dragon tattoo?
Uh James Bond.
What?
Daniel,
not the remake. The original.
What's he called?
Not the not the Fincher version.
Oh, I don't know. I I haven't seen anyway. I don't care. Sorry.
The final part of
Yeah. So, he sort of gives air a list of things and even that plays out like a a tooling up sort of revenge
kind of thing like cuz we don't see what he's asking him to get. He just gives him a list and says, "Can you get me this stuff?" And you're thinking, "Oh, now it's going to kick off."
But instead of an AK-47, it's it's a baguette.
Yeah. And a bottle of wine.
Yeah. But he goes to get the baguette himself, doesn't he? From what I what I presume is uh was it the sister of his his wife?
I get the impression that maybe she was his sister. And there's some history there.
Yeah. Was definitely somebody who knew the both of them.
Yeah, I think so. Cuz he They he says, "Oh, um was it Charlotte or whatever his wife was called? She always said that you should take the blinds down." And she took the blinds down, the curtains down, and he said, "Yeah, it's better this way." There's that history there.
It's kind of the perfect thing that we always say
the conversation is about something else.
Mhm.

(08:46):
But it gives you all the information that you need in this specific example and and a and a world of character as well and past that really adds to the the texture of the film and the character. ization.
Yeah, definitely.
But that's where he he picks up the the bread is he gets a big bread.
Big bread.
He gets a big stale bread.
Big salty bread.
Big salty salty the salty baguette. That's where we are, isn't it?
And he goes to Adam Markin's house.
Yeah.
So, he's already asked Adam Markin for his pig back at this point because I can't I can't remember exactly. Was it Amir who sort of let slip or did he put it together that it was Adam Mark Harkkins character that was kind of behind the whole thing.
I forget the exact details of it, but but he does go to Adam Arkins gaff and he asks him about the pig and he I think he says like um
he basically admits to having the organized the pig to be taken. Yeah.
But that's all the information that he gives him. He's just like, "Move on. I'm going to give you 25 grand. Shut up. Go away." And what I love as well is that they really set up that character as this like big boss. And it's unusual, isn't it? Because You think about it for a second. All of these people are like set up to be you're meant to maybe be fearing these people, but really what who are they? They're a chef.
Yeah.
All right. Okay. Angley Harriet.
Good with knives though.
Well, yeah, there is that. But yeah, he'd already gone to Arkins um place and they had had that conversation and then he goes away and and get and that's where he goes to get his ingredients because they had that
that conversation earlier Amir and I'm sure that was in the back of Robin Nicholas Cage Cage. his mind where um air was saying the only time I can remember my parents enjoying themselves was after they had eaten a meal together
and that's kind of bubbling away in the background and then
that's where Robin says okay go away and get me this food he's I'm going to come back I'm going to cook a meal for uh Darius which is Adam Akins character and again like trying to elicit a response get some truth out of him but but via doing something for him via a love in a way by preparing a a meal that he knows that he loved and that Darius character is we learn that he's been trying to block out those kind of feelings that he had for his his wife. It's a mysterious kind of situation there.
Yeah. I mean the the whole film is basically about not dealing with grief, isn't it? And

(09:07):
ultimately that to me is the biggest theme.
Yeah. It's about loss and grief and how to deal with it and
deal with it.
You have to tackle it head on. You can't keep pushing it down.
Get some Therapy, boys. Get some therapy.
That That was the the the the working title of this when they were shooting it. Get some therapy, boys.
Oh, I thought it was Cage Pig in the City.
That's going in the description.
Okay, good.
Yeah.
Um but yeah, the the there's a moment where Darius turns to him and says, "Just get yourself a new pig."
Yeah.
And the the way he delivers that line, I don't know what about what it was exactly about it, but It's the exact same energy as get a new president from Escape from New York.
Yeah.
You hate him in that moment though.
Yeah.
But yeah, they he cooks him this meal because he, as he says, he remembers everybody he ever cooked a meal for. Yeah.
So he knows just what to make to to get to him to to trigger. He's kind of using food as like this transcendental experience to trigger memory, I guess. And it works. cuz Darius kind of ends up breaking down.
Yeah. Yeah, he absolutely does. And but that's you get all of that from the the previous conversations that that the characters have had in the film. And again, like I say again, you're expecting this kind of weird showdown, but what you get is just Nicholas Cage
cooking some food
and then them sitting down and eating together. And like on the one hand, I'm like, is anyone going to shoot anyone in this movie?

(09:28):
There hasn't even been one explosion.
Not one. But on the other hand, I'm like, I kind of respect you for this. Yeah. And even even after that when Adam Markin kind of breaks down and Robin goes to him and he sort of says, you know, I don't this is going to break my heart even saying it. The pig died like shortly after we got her because the the drug addicts were too rough with her. And
even at that moment, you're like, "Oh, now he's going to snap.
Now he's going to enact revenge." No, he just breaks down on the floor and sobs.
Yeah.
Like a broken man. Um, and interestingly, Much like Mandy, we don't get the sound of him crying.
Yeah.
Um but we see the visuals and that's enough.
Maybe even more effective,
I think. So again, like not going to spoil that movie or that that that episode that we did last week, but
he does a cry in it.
Yeah, he does a cry and the the lack of sound really adds to the impact of it. Like I say, you hear Nicholas Cage crying. Maybe uh I don't know, maybe it's not quite the effect that you want it to have, but
that just broke me. absolutely destroyed me.
I was deconstructed during this film.
You were deconstructed. Yeah, you were you were pretty upset by the end of this movie.
I like racking sobs. Not just not just like a few tears, like racking sobs for 10 minutes.
That's fascinating.
And then he kind of sort of pulls himself together.
Yeah.
Amir offers to take him back. Um but they have this moment in the diner where I don't know, Cage kind of blames himself almost cuz he said, "If I'd never went looking for her in my head, she'd still be alive."
Yeah. But immediately Amir's like, "No, she wouldn't be." And he accepts it. He's like, "Yeah, you're right. No, she wouldn't be." Schroing Schroing as pig.

(09:49):
Why can neither of us say that? Schroing as pig. Oh my god.
Yeah.
But he Yeah. That that kind of instinct to almost blame himself for a second, though.
Yeah. And but that's like a perfectly human response, isn't it? When you're going through those kind of moments of
that intense grief. You do think about what actions you took or didn't take
and how things might have played out differently, but you've got to forget that to get to get through it. You've you've got to let that go as quickly as you possibly can because it's not healthy and it's it's incorrect. It's not a correct way of dealing with it. But something else that I really really like about this and I said about how it's it it's um it's it's I think it's criticizing critics And it's criticizing anyone that tells you how to enjoy art
and anyone that tells you how to do anything ultimately because like I feel like throughout this film nobody quite understands the bond that Robin has uh with his pig.
Oh yeah. Cuz he has that conversation with Amir and said I don't even need her to get the truffles.
Yeah.
And Amir's like well why why were we doing this then?
Exactly.
This is because I love her.
Amir's like oh well this is commerce. This is a businessbased decision that we're They're trying to, you know, you we like I like money, you like tins of beans. Let's let's get this pig back. But no, he loves the pig.
Yeah. Meanwhile, every vegan in the audience is just like, because she's beautiful. Rescue her.
And he says that he says that in the film. He says, no, I love the pig.
And no one gets that in this film. They're like, why are you so obsessed with this pig? It's like, well, I love the pig.
Just a commodity to the pig's my friend. Yeah.
And uh they
his only friend. is his only friend. But and I don't get it because people it the characters in this movie think that there's a certain way to act. We should be obsessed with perfection. We should be obsessed with the perfect art, money, power, uh respect, um yellow Camaros,
classical music,
classical music. And these are the reasons why you should be interested in those things. And actually it's like no, you just do what you want to do

(10:10):
and that is it. Who who like You don't need to explain yourself to anyone. You enjoy what you enjoy and that's it. And I think that extends to the relationships in this film as well. And that's something that I really really liked about this. The fact that
he has that bond with the pig. No one gets it,
but it's not till the end of the movie that he explains it. He doesn't really He just says, "I love her. I loved her." I can't remember whether he use uses past tense or present tense, which is probably quite important.
I think present tense, I want to say.
Okay. But it's It's like everyone's questioning him. Why are you going after this pig? And he doesn't ever really answer them because he doesn't need to give an answer because it's what he's doing is doesn't involve anyone else. Are you going to give me a lift in your yellow Camaro? Yes or no? That's all I need to know.
And I like that. And I love I love this character in in this film. This I think it's one of his most interesting characters um in terms of complexity and the kind of unwillingness to explain himself and just being as he is. He's just very seems very comfortable in his own skin. Uh even though he's got a shirt on and a huge beard
and blood all over his face that he never washes off.
But who but who cares? Like it's if that's if he's happy living like that, then who are we to say or anyone else to say that that's wrong? It's not. You do what you like. Don't listen to anyone else.
Well, I get what you're saying, but also I think maybe some of the message is that you need other people sometimes No man is an island. Like
I disagree. I'm an island.
Can I visit occasionally?
I'm f****** I beer.
Will you accept holiday makers?
Like from the beginning of the film, he pushes everybody away. He he has that stereo that he gets batteries for. Air delivers him batteries for the stereo,
but he sort of can't bring himself to put the tape in or he stops it. And it's only at the end when he gets back to his cabin that he puts the tape on and we discover it's his wife. um singing like talking to him and then singing
and I think at that point he's kind of accepted that he has to tackle this grief head on. He can't keep pushing it down. He has to find a way to carry on but also that he can't necessarily do it alone.
Yeah, that's a good Yeah, I hadn't thought about that actually. That's a good reading. I'd forgotten about the tapes because you get that scene earlier on in the movie where he goes to put the tape on and he he switches it off very promptly
and it's clearly something that he's not dealing with.
And perhaps also the pig is an extension of that that grief. He's holding on to his past relationship via the pig.
Yeah. And I think also I think also he's tried to shield himself from further grief by not getting close to other humans and just having this pig friend and then also, you know, ultimately he realizes that he can't avoid grief that way because now he's got to deal with two types of grief.
Yeah. I think he's probably learned that even know he's been living in the forest for 15 years and he has the pig.

(10:31):
It can't hide from the hurt. Like it's just part of being a human unfortunately and you have to you have to deal with it. Yeah, I hadn't thought of that. You know, he that is an interesting that's a good character arc and probably has
a lot to do with um urinal is what's the the Greek thing? U
urinal
uridor
uricy ury. Yeah. You're not looking back on all of that that stuff like it's all kind of
don't avoid the past just because it's painful.
Yeah. Yeah. So that's interesting. And always have spare batteries.
Yes.
Absolutely. That's that's the ultimate takeaway here.
And pigs are great.
Pigs are great. You don't need to tell me. I love pigs. I've always loved pigs. I love it when you go to feed pigs and they sort of look up at you and go hold their mouth open, drop an apple in their mouth and they're like, they love it. I f****** love pigs. They are great. So cute. I wish I could have one
one day. One day we'll have a farm.
Oh,
well, no, we'll have a place where animals live.
Is that also a farm? But we're not we're not going to
We won't be doing any actual farming.
No, we're just somewhere.
We'll just have a lot of pets that live outside.
That's right. Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.

(10:52):
So, like I said, I'm very sorry that we ended on such a downer of a movie. Um I think it's it is it is a bit of a downer, but ultimately like if you have a different reading of it, it can be uh quite uplifting in a way. I don't know if that's
I think it is quite an optimistic ending. I mean, obviously it depends who you are and how you're viewing it, but to me it it certainly is.
I think it's going back to that point that I made earlier earlier about the tough love.
It's like, yeah, life's going to be hard. Life's going to be s***. You're going to lose people you love,
but we're here.
To be human is to feel pain, and it's unavoidable, but you'll get through it.
But it's it's all part of the experience. And if you don't have that, you don't have you don't have the good, you don't have the bad, like it's all part of the same thing and you just enjoy it while you're here and
appreciate it while you're here. So, I do think it's
it's it's it's a complex movie.
Yeah.
Uh and and it's probably way more complex than I thought about on first viewing.
Me, too. Me, too.
Yeah. It's great.
I'm glad that it held up on second viewing because films like that don't always like it was such a surprise the first time we saw it. They don't always play out the same way when you know what's going to happen. But it really really held up.
I think I I maybe enjoyed it a little bit more the second time round because I didn't have that expect. As much as I enjoyed being wrong footed that first time round,
I knew it wasn't that definitely. So I was able to absorb the first particularly the first half of the movie a bit more and and dig into the relationship between Robin and Amir and the pig and and how that first half of the movie kind of kind of plays out. So yeah, I I on the one hand I I'm apologize and I know that regret picking it because it's
regret turning me into a sobbing snotty mess.
Yeah, it ruined it. The movie ruined you and I apologize for that. Um,
but it was beautiful.
But it's a great movie and
and it's a great performance of his to end the season on as well.

(11:13):
Yeah, it really is. And I don't I think I I don't know. He's Cage has so many great performances in his back catalog. I don't know if there's one that's stronger than this.
This was his 100th performance.
Was it?
Including TV appearances.
Okay.
100th.
I I think this is there's loads of his that I haven't seen, but honestly, I think this is maybe the strongest dramatic performance I've seen of him that I can think of. I I stand to be corrected. But
would you not consider Mandy to be a dramatic performance then?
Oh, I said that last week, didn't I?
Yeah. I mean, it's it's different though, isn't it? They're different performances.
Absolutely. I stand by the fact that that's my favorite of his performances, but I can absolutely see why so many people think this is him at his best.
I think favorite is different to best. My favorite might might still be Vampire's Kiss.
Um, but yeah, I think maybe dramatically there's bunch I haven't seen Leaving Las Vegas, which I think is what he won the Oscar for. It
was. Yeah.
So, the critics said that I'm wrong, so you know, they're right as with the sort of discussions we've been having in this episode. Um, I haven't seen it, so I can't really judge it, but but from what I have seen as a lowkey, complex human dramatic performance, I think this is up there. Definitely.
He should have got an Oscar nod for this.
I think absolutely. I think this absolutely should have had more recognition.
I think it was loved. I think any anyone that's seen it,
I think that I know about anyway, has
uh really praised the movie, as far as I know.
It was on Obama's list of favorite movies of that year.

(11:34):
Oh, and he He is the arbiter of of uh taste. Yeah.
Um yeah, like I said, we could have had a Pedro Pascal movie, but we didn't. But we will do perhaps The Unbearable Weight of Massive Talent.
Can we have a Nicholas Cage break for a little while?
I mean, you can. I'm probably going to watch The Rock again tonight.
All right. You do. You do you.
Yeah. I'm not bored of Nicholas Cage. I
I'm not bored of him. I've just got a fatigue. I've had enough for now. Yeah. Well, that's that's fair.
He's a lot. He's an intense actor.
I could I I think he's like my second or third most act watched actor of all time on Netflix. Samuel Jackson cuz he's been in 10,000 movies.
And then uh Nicholas Cage, I think.
I could believe that.
Yeah. But yeah, that brings us to the end of coming of Cage. And it's been a real journey,
hasn't it?
I'm proud that I didn't cry this episode.
Yeah, you did well. Um But yeah, you'll be pleased to know that we've now reached the end and we're moving on to something else next season.
What is that something else?
Well, it's season 10 and we thought, didn't we, we thought we would do something a little bit different. We always take it in turns to choose seasons for a start.
And we always do eight films a season.
Yes. So, this time we thought, why don't we
not do that?
Not do that. Yeah. Tune in to find out in in 3 weeks. Um, yeah. We thought, let's do a slightly longer season. Season 10. And so we're going to do 10 episodes.

(11:55):
Mhm.
We've chosen a theme together. We we agreed on it together and we've chosen five movies each and the theme is flops.
Yeah.
So I think it's going to be an interesting season because we I think well we we we've pretty much nailed down what the lineup is. Uh which will be announced on Patreon our free tier in a couple of weeks.
Y
um but it's Not to give too much away, but it's going to be probably mostly bad movies. Um,
you say that I I've been This has been an eye openener for me because so many of my favorite movies are on this list.
Yeah.
Apparently, I have terrible taste.
Well, well, and me too. There some of my favorite movies are on this list.
And some others.
I don't have I picked a good movie. I don't know if I have, actually. I think all of mine might be classified class classed as terrible movies, but I I love some of them. Um, but yeah, so we'll be we'll be back in a few weeks for season 10 flops, 10 episodes. If you want to see the lineup, be on Patreon in a few weeks. Become a free member. Check it out.