The Thing (1982) - S10 E73 - Shoot The Hostage

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Hello and welcome to Shoot a Hostage with me, Dan, and my partner, Sarah. We're a movie podcast who talks about a different film each week based on a theme. We do swear and we do spoil the featured movie. So, only ever listen if you've seen the film or you don't care too much about spoilers. If you're a regular listener, you can just skip forward until you hear the intro music cuz you've heard all of this before. But if you are new to the show and you do enjoy what you hear, there are a couple of things you can do to help support the show. Firstly, make sure that you're subscribed on your podcast. player so you get notified when new shows drop on Mondays. Uh you could rate us five stars on Spotify, which couldn't be easier. You just hit the star icon below the show's artwork. Or if you have a spare few minutes, we'd love it if you could submit a review wherever you listen. Uh make sure you come follow us at swth_pod on social media. We are active on Instagram, threads, and Tik Tok. And lastly, the biggest thing you can do to help is tell a friend about the show. So that's about it. That's enough preamble from me. Uh Over to me and Sarah for this week's episode.

(00:01):
Okay, so we're back for season 10.
Season 10.
And as we've already talked about a little bit. You might have heard in the last show, we're switching to a slightly different format this time because it's our 10th season. We thought we'd do something a little bit different in a sort of celebration of film as you as you were.
Um, but not necessarily good films. We are covering 10 movies this season instead of the standard eight. We're taking it in turns. Dan's picked five. I've picked five of varying degrees of quality. Mostly mine are s***.
Yeah, I'll give you that. Um, I would say mostly mine, certainly critically are s***.
I would say at least half of yours are s***. So like two and a half of yours are s***.
Okay. But we are starting very very very strong with what I would call my favorite movie of all time.
Wow.
So no pressure.
I guess we're always going to get to this at some point then.
I just can't believe in 12 years of podcasting I've never covered this movie before.
What movie is it?
It's The Thing.
And why have you never covered it before? I guess it only came out in 2011.
Oh, how dare you.
So, now you've got that joke out of the way. We did actually watch the 2011 prequel as well, so we've got that to refer to.
Yeah.
But, um, yeah, it was the the second best thing to come out of 1982. First being myself.
Oh, right. I was going to say ET.
You don't even like ET. I hope you like me more than ET. I do like you more than ET,
but that's a low bar.

(00:22):
ET is a sentimental bollocks.
I love it.
But I haven't seen it since I was like five. So
Oh, and you're definitely not more cynical now that you're 40.
If I didn't like it when I was five, I'm unlikely to enjoy it now, I guess. But
yeah.
Yeah. I This was a flop, wasn't it?
It was a big flop. Yeah.
Was it a big flop, though?
Yeah. So, it was made for quite a lot of money for a horror film. at the time.
15 million.
15 million. And if you bear in mind that Carpenters's Halloween was only 4 years prior to this, and that cost 375,000.
Yeah. And grossed like 70 million,
which I'm guessing is how this came to be.
Obviously, he was given a bit more money, I guess, to try and replicate some of that success that he had before. So, he had the bigger budget. So, 15 million, I think it was, and it grossed 20 million at the at the box office.
Yeah, we might have discussed this maybe a little bit our I was going to say our big break episode for some reason about Jim Davidson.
Oh, never think about Jim.
Things to think about than Jim Davidson.
Michael Barrymore.
He's less misogyn misogynistic.
Barry Moore killed someone and I still prefer him to Jim Davis. Allegedly

(00:43):
for legal reasons.
Alleged.
Yeah.
No. Um I think we we touched on this perhaps in our Big Trouble Little China episode.
Yeah. Cuz this is our third John Carpenters movie.
Third JC movie. Yeah. Yeah, but I think I thought that this was way more of a flop than it is in that it was made for 15, it grows 20. I thought it lost like loads of money for some reason. So,
it probably didn't make any money cuz it's like a 5 million profit. Add in marketing and all of that stuff. It was definitely a disappointment.
Yeah, I know John Carpenter himself was very disappointed when the reviews started coming in. People hated it.
And there's that as well. I think the critical response to it at the time probably factored into the amount of a flop that I thought that it was. Like for for some reason in my head I was thinking, "Oh, it must have lost an absolute fortune like a like other movies that we might speak about in this season." But don't get me wrong, it's not like a great amount of money, but for some reason, I just thought it did way worse. And and I think the critical response probably factored into my
Yeah.
uh sort of my thought process in that.
I think maybe in comparison to the runaway success that was Halloween, for example, The expectation was definitely that it was going to do a lot better than it did.
I think Halloween remained his highest ever grossing movie.
That would not surprise me at all.
No. And arguably his most simplistic
probably. It's It was so successful. I'm really surprised they only made that one movie and they never thought to
You'd think there'd be like a huge franchise, maybe even a reboot, but nothing. Tumble Weeds.
Yeah. Yeah. You think there would be like a bust of rhymes in a modern version or
perhaps even like a a weird installment a little ways into the franchise that doesn't connect to any of the prior stuff. But no, nothing. It's strange.
Yeah, that is weird.
Yeah. I don't know. The more I've read about this film, the more I sort of sympathized with John Carpenter because he really believed in the thing and it was not met with the sort of response that he had hoped for. And I know he's he's a crotchety old what's the word? He's a grumpy old git.

(01:04):
Um
yeah
and and the stuff that I've been reading I've always thought of him as a grumpy old git every time I've seen interviews with him. But I kind of assumed that was like a thing that developed with age. But it doesn't seem to be the case. It seems like he was always a bit of a grumpy grumpy dude.
I don't know. Like it it's I've seen him in lots of interviews and the commentaries he he does with Kurt Russell like their relationship.
He can have a laugh.
Yeah, exactly. He just he seems like the sort of person that's like, "I've got a job to do. I want to get it done." And if you stand in my way or you like there's any red tape, then f*** off. And that I I respect that. Like, as long as you're not being an absolute tool to people, unless they deserve it, like people in suits or whatever. But
I don't know. Yeah, he seems like a miserable old git, but that's not always a bad thing necessarily,
I guess. So, just like sort of sick of the process. And
I guess I guess maybe grumpy is the wrong word. Let's just say he's about as far from a people pleaser as you can be.
Yeah.
Yeah. I think I think the thing that disappointed Carpenter the most um is is kind of Well, the first thing we have to say is that this is technically a remake
of 1951's The Thing from Another World,
which I think Carpenter saw as a as a kid and was kind of inspired by it. I think I heard him say that he saw like a 3D version which I did not know existed in the 1950s. Does that just mean it was a stage play?
Um, no. I believe it was a more naive version of 3D.
So, correct me if I'm wrong. I'm pulling this information from the recesses of my brain. I seem to remember that in Halloween, Jam Lee Curtis, Lorie Strode, is babysitting these two kids, and I think they're watching The Thing from Another World on TV.
Okay.
So, he definitely has a love for the the original and quite a history with it.
Yeah.
So when this when his version came out, the director of the original, Christian Ny was pretty critical of Carpenter's version and he was so good about that.
Oh, that's funny because Carpenters's version apparently has more in common with the original.
Yeah. So I I think there's stories called who goes there.

(01:25):
Yeah.
Yeah. I read that as well.
So the the original is like more of a is it like a who's a communist? missed in our group sort of subtext situation. I haven't read it. I can't tell you. So I did I did put it on YouTube the other day, but I listened to about 12 seconds of it and I got bored.
You managed as many as 12 seconds.
I was really proud of myself.
Wow.
I'm basically going around telling everyone I read a book.
Um but yeah, it's funny how I think I think he was like, I really like the 50s one. I don't want to remake that.
Let's go back to the the novela and try and adapt that so it's different. but also faithful to the original and the paranoia and all of that stuff that is present in the 82 version.
So, do you think it's fair to call it a remake in that case? Because it is called a remake like it's generally considered to be a remake as far as I'm aware, but but I read the same thing that it is much closer to the novela. So perhaps it should just be a reimagining.
I mean, what's the difference really? It's uh to me it's just that means the same thing.
Um, disagree, but semantics, I guess.
Yeah, that's how I always end arguments. Just say, "It's a semantic thing, isn't it?"
And just go your separate ways.
Yeah. Bye
bye. I guess that's the end of
this has been fun.
Um,
yeah. So, a lot of the critical reception was was really disappointing for him, which sucks because it's so good. Obviously, I've already said on this episode and multitudes of other episodes that we've done, this is my favorite movie of all time. I never ever I'm going to get tired of watching this. And I arrived at it quite late. Um I don't
How old were you when you saw it?
I must have been at least 20.

(01:46):
Oh, wow.
Yeah.
Yeah. I saw this before you did this.
You did? You did? Um when How old were you when you first saw it then?
I I It was on television. I think it would have been like a late night Friday night situation. I want to say somewhere between the age of 8 and 14. Something somewhere around it. Probably younger than 14, I would say. Yeah.
And how did you respond to it then? Did you get much out of it?
I don't think I did. I I think I thought it was quite boring.
So, this was another The Shining scenario.
Yeah, I guess so. I've definitely come I like The Shining. I've come to appreciate it more the more I've seen it. I I think when you and I watched it together for the first time three or four years ago. I think that was only the second time I I'd ever watched it. So I sort of went into it going I don't really like this movie but everyone loves it and thinks it's a masterpiece. Like I must be wrong. And I do appreciate it a lot more. But having said that I still am not like oh I don't get that that five star masterpiece thing. For me it's just like a solid fourstar movie.
Okay. That's still that's still a really good score.
It's a really good score and I've been trying to reconcile this in my brain because I really want to get what everyone else gets from it, but for me it's just we'll get into the creature stuff and whatever, I'm sure, but for me it's just like a really solidly made movie that I respect.
Mhm.
I don't think I would go back to it that very often um if you if it weren't for you to be honest.
Well, in fairness, I've only made you watch it twice. No, you have so far.
You have. But I just I guess I just respect the craft of it. And it is a John into movie. It's probably for me maybe outside of his top five movies for me.
Wow. Okay.
But like there there's others that I absolutely love of his.
Well, you're wrong because John Carpenter himself considers this his favorite of all the movies that he's made. Yeah.
Wow. You'd think it would be Ghost of Mars, wouldn't you?
Yeah. Absolutely. Or the Ward perhaps.
Yeah.

(02:07):
Even Vampires.
Yeah. Well,
no, he's It's clearly a man of taste, but um it's funny you say that cuz I know you're a huge fan of Prince of Darkness.
Yeah.
Um which is obviously the the thing is considered the first in his like unofficial Apocalypse trilogy.
Yeah.
Prince of Darkness being the second, the third being In the Mouth of Madness, which is really hard to get hold of in the UK.
Y
I was only able to find it on VHS. Um which is crazy. Such a good movie.
Do we have it on VHS?
We do have it on VHS.
Maybe we should watch it then.
We should. You do not need to convince me to watch a film about Sam Neil going haywire.
That's like your favorite genre of movies.
It might be my favorite. Like Possession, Event Horizon, give me that give me that crazy Sam Neil.
I'm down for that.
Yeah.
Um but yeah, so it it does have such a solid reputation these days, which really kind of bullies the the critical reception when it was released.
Well, it's it's interesting, isn't it? Like is there a better example of movie that was universally uni m I don't know if it was like a 50/50 situation. Some pe the people that hated it really hated it but the people that liked it really liked it. Um but I get the impression that it was kind of rated as a bad movie like back then and
what's the difference now like why have people changed their view on it? Is it the legacy of John Carpenter and the all the movies that he made after and just seeing his kind of path through film making and everything that he made and going actually this is a really good movie. It's a John Carpenter movie. Like it sort of gained a bit of a cult status and it's it's just now one of those movies that's one in every 10th person. This is their favorite movie. It's it's nuts. Like the turnaround. I don't think I could give you a better example of a more severe turnaround on going from like Shaton completely when it came out to it now being a movie that just everybody loves.
It's funny. I think potentially a lot of what you've listed there is um is behind The Turnaround, but also it's my understanding that The Turnaround happened quite quickly.

(02:28):
Oh, okay.
It's not like one of these films that found its audience decades after the fact, I think, because it came out at a time when VHS was kind of in its infancy.
Um, it it definitely had a second life on home video and people started to come round to it then when it when it was released on VHS. So, it didn't take too long for people to change their minds.
Yeah.
But it's certainly in the past kind of two decades has has been recognized as one of the greats
for sure. It's wild to me. It's so weird like this putting this amongst some of the other films that we're covering this season.
It's such a weird standout to me.
Yeah, I probably would agree with you. I'm desperate to say what some of my choices are, but it's a big secret that you can see for free on Patreon. Um, yeah, it's It's definitely an outlier in the lineup, isn't it? Like you've got this, which I've already said for me it's a really solid like four-st star movie. For you it's a masterpiece and I'm assuming like maximum
five stars. Yeah.
Five stars for you.
No question.
Compared to what we've got coming up later where it's the complete opposite of that in some in some cases.
Yeah. We're covering a handful of my favorite movies this season and I can't and won't make excuses for them the same way that I would for the Thing.
Yeah.
Like I am ride or die. for this movie, whereas the others I'm just like, "Yeah, I get why people think it's s***."
I I'm I'm guessing as well with the thing like it's it's one of those um like you mentioned it sort of came out at a time when VHS was in its infancy. So that definitely gave it some legs.
People would have been buying it, watching it and re-watching it and it sort of sort of gaining more and more cult status and notoriety in in that case.
But also there was a game which came out what about 20 years ago, early 2000s I want to say. officially like John Carpenter was behind it and it was Was it a sequel to the to the thing of sorts?
Yes.
Did you play it?
I've never played it weirdly.

(02:49):
That blows my mind.
I know. I know. Um I was aware of it, but yeah, I've never played it, but um I do know the storyline or at least how it starts and I know that John Carpenter has said like it's cannon,
right?
Which I don't really want to talk about just yet because obviously it ties into the ending of this movie. So, we'll get to that later.
Okay. We'll pick that up then then. Yeah.
So, you had the the computer game and then you also had
a remake slash prequel. I guess that's a spoiler for that movie, but everyone knows.
Um, when did that come out? 2011. So, like 30 years
30 years after the the original that that flopped and
which is nuts.
Didn't the remake or the the original movie like the prequel, whatever we call it, so confusing? Like, didn't that do badly at the box office as well?
The two 2011 version.
Yeah.
Yeah. I mean, the 2011 version is a bit of a funny one because a lot of fans of the original, they they kind of are of two minds about it. I don't think it's a very good film, especially when compared to the 1982 version. But do I get nothing out of it? No. I think it's fun in its own way. I think it does some really interesting things and in tying the films together and explaining maybe even overexlaining how certain things get to where they are and like some of it's a bit labored. It was heavily criticized for its effects work because obviously one of the bigger things that the thing is known for is the incredible special effects work by Rob Boutine and a kind of uncredited Stan Winston.
Big Stan he did the dog. He made the dog thing, didn't he?
He did, but he didn't want credit because he didn't want to take away from Robert Batine's work.
Who was like 23 at the time.
I know.
Sickening.
Imagine being that talented at 23.
I can't. I wasn't.

(03:10):
I'm not that talented now. It's sickening. But yeah, I think that was one of the biggest complaints of the 2011 was that they seemingly went to great pains to kind of replicate the the practical effects and then went and CGIed over the top of them. of them looked really crummy.
I I I'll be honest, like we watched it the other night and I'd heard this. It was the first time I'd seen it way through cuz I believed I put it on when I was drunk once and watched about seven minutes of it and then woke up at the end.
This is a recurring thing for you, but you told everybody you'd watched the whole thing.
You logged it.
Did I?
No.
I don't know. Maybe. Um Yeah. So, I was I mean I'd obviously heard that it's not very popular. People tend not to like it very much. much.
I didn't hate it. I thought it was okay.
Okay. Yeah.
I don't know if I would watch it again. Maybe I'll go in 20 years or whatever, but
it was fine. I was expecting the effects to be bad and I thought they were actually quite good.
Did you?
Yeah. I thought obviously you can tell some of it is CGI, but I'm thinking, well, that was 15 years ago now.
It's an old It's an old movie really. And I think there are movies that come out now that don't look as good as that does. And I I get that I the they shouldn't have CGIed over the top of the practical stuff. They absolutely shouldn't have done.
I think it just sort of breaks my heart a little bit for what could have been. And I'll be honest, I don't know who did the effects work on the 2011 version. But yeah, I don't know. I've seen some of the behind the scenes stuff that came out shortly after and it looked fine. I don't know why they did it. I don't And I'm not even opposed to CGI enhancement. I think when it's done subtly
Yeah.
Um when it's done well enough that you don't notice it. Great. Brilliant.
But it's just so unnecessary in that film.
Yeah. They probably just did a bit too much. So just you know when you start doing some coloring in and you you do some coloring in you think I'll just do a bit more and it looks good. You go I just touch it up a little or like when you're shaving a beard like you you sort of shave it into your face a bit. You think I'll just go a bit short. I'll go a bit short and you end up just cutting the whole f****** thing off.
I'll have to take your word for like that
I guess. The the closest thing I have to liken it to is cutting my Barbie dolls hair when I was a kid.

(03:31):
Yeah.
They'd end up with an asymmetrical bob and it would just keep getting shorter until they were bald.
Yeah. Until it's ruined.
Yeah.
Yeah. But you in your mind you're like, I'm making this better.
And then you look at it when it's done, you're like, oh, f***** it.
That's a really good analogy.
Stopped half an hour ago.
Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. I like it.
Yeah.
So, this is uh this is our second Keith David movie.
Is it?
Any guesses?
Oh s***. I give you a clue. In the other one, he was on a horse.
Oh, nope. Oh my god. Yeah, he's not in it very much. In my defense,
I was looking at his um filmography and I just completely by accident saw nope on there. I was like, "Oh, yeah, we've done that."
This was his first feature film.
Was it?
It was. Yeah. His first feature film credit. And what a career he's had.
Yeah.

(03:52):
So, well done whoever was the casting director on this.
Yeah.
Um Yeah. It's also our second Thomas G. Weights movie.
Oh, I've written Tom Weights, but you've gone for the full Thomas G Weights.
Well, Tom Weights to me is a different guy.
Who's that guy then? Who's Who's Tom Weights? What guy is that?
Are you I can't tell if you're joking. Thomas G. Weights is a different guy to Tom Weights.
Oh, is it?
Yeah.
I must be thinking of the wrong Tom Weights.
So, Thomas G. Weights we've talked about before because he was in the Warriors.
Wasn't that Tom Weights?
No.
Was he a roller boy? No, he was one of the Warriors, but he is the one who had a disagreement with Walter Hill,
right?
And got thrown onto a train track or his character was thrown onto a train.
Um about halfway through the movie, they wrote him out cuz they butted heads.
Yeah, I do remember us talking about that. Yeah.
Um and he plays Windows in this,
right? Oh, he's Windows in this. So, I have a hard time remembering the characters names in this. I think it's I'd say like a maybe a minor criticism. I feel like there's few too many characters maybe for for what this is.
Um, okay. Okay.

(04:13):
I'm not, you know, obviously you disagree with me.
I do disagree. I do disagree, but I'm I I listen. I'm hearing you. I'm taking it on board.
As someone that has a problem like recognizing and sort of distinguishing people via their face.
Um, I had a bit of a problem outside of McCriedi and Donald Moffett and um and Keith David outside and and and Wilfr Brim. No, they're all recognizable, aren't they?
Yeah. Richard Mazur, like they all look quite different.
Mr. Cocoon himself. Um, and obviously, yeah, Kurt Russell. This is our This is This only our second Kurt Russell movie,
I think. So,
obviously Big Trouble, isn't it? And then, uh, and then this.
There'll be others.
We're going to get to Stargate at some point, aren't we?
Yeah, we talked about that recently.
Yeah.
Big Kurt Russell fan. In fact, I have a tattoo of him as McCriedi on my leg. one of my favorite characters in cinema history.
Why? Why is that then? Why is he one of your favorite characters, do you think?
Um because he seems tired and sick of everyone's s***. And also I think it was just like peak Kurt Russell.
Do you reckon?
I I like his character a lot in this which is really interesting because
they offered the role to basically every other male actor in Hollywood that was around that age and everybody turned it down or had scheduling conflicts and then John Carpenter kind of went, "What about what about this guy?" And the studio was just like, "No, he's too young. He's too pretty." He is.
However, they kind of had to scramble at the last minute. So, he was cast out of desperation, which is so odd because he's iconic in this.
I It's It's weird to me when we watch a Kurt Russell movie. Like, in my mind, I'm like, he must have been the very first choice to play this character cuz he's always so good like in whatever he's in, he's clearly given it his best.
I would say especially in John Carpenter movies.

(04:34):
Yeah.
Like for me, his his best performance is hands down Big Trouble in Little China.
Oh, you can just tell he's having such a blast.
Yeah. But I think that's just because it's more of a sort of my flavored like silly goofy action comedy.
Yeah.
Um but I can see what you would you what you would like about this this particular performance, I guess. Um is it because when he loses a game of chess, he destroys the computer by throwing his whiskey over it.
Do you like that or I
I don't love that because it seems wasteful.
You are wasting some some whiskey there, aren't you?
And also a computer.
And a computer. Yeah. Who was voiced by
ex Mrs. Carpenter herself, Adrien Barau.
So the only woman in the cast
technically. Yes. She was a disembodied AI voice
who was killed by a man.
Yeah. Sounds outright
drowned by a man.
Yeah, I love Adrien Bobo. I think she's fantastic.
But yeah, uncredited. Another uncredited person in the cast.
I what I was saying about the characters earlier, I have a hard time distinguishing and I and I did list off like six people who are really sort of you can tell who they are a mile away, but I would say outside of those, I don't know who everyone else is.
And I think the only reason I sort of remember Donald Moffett so much is because he has my favorite line in the movie. Is this the couch thing?

(04:55):
Yeah,
it's it's also my favorite line.
Is it really?
Yeah.
I think it's He delivers it so well, I think.
Yeah, it's um I know you gentlemen have been through a lot, but when you find the time, I'd rather not spend the rest of this winter tied to this f****** couch.
Yeah,
it's so good.
It's brilliant.
Yeah,
it is excellent line delivery. Agreed. I think probably the most iconic line though is definitely when they see the Norris head skittering around. like a spider and I can't remember the character's name, but he just goes, "You've got to be f****** kidding me."
Yeah,
I think that was um that was a lot of the cast's favorite line,
right?
From what I've read. So, let's go straight back to the beginning. I know we've um we've meandered a little bit, but I want to start at the beginning again. The opening is a little bit unlike the bulk of John Carpenters's movies.
What is the opening? The the dog chase or is it the spaceship?
It's the spaceship. That's the very first thing we see, is it?
Yes. And I believe this was a Universal production.
Yeah.
Um, and it's one of the few that didn't feature the Universal logo because they were worried that it would confuse people when it kind of cuts to the the UFO.
But why why didn't why wouldn't they just incorporate that then?

(05:16):
That was a suggestion. Nobody knows.
That's dumb.
I know.
Like they do that quite a lot now, don't they, with films?
Yeah. Yeah. I suppose it's a lot easier to do than it was in 1982.
I suppose there is that. Yeah.
But um but yeah, they kind of forgo the the standard John Carpenter font, which I have looked for and I can't find anywhere. It's definitely not like a a free font that's in existence, but um they they mimicked the title card from The Thing from Another World, and it involved a fish tank filled with smoke and a garbage bag and setting that on fire and just like the the inventiveness, the imagination that went into kind of replicating that is so cool to me.
It was It's a really I I heard someone speaking about this and it's a really like simple kind of workshop solution to something that really effective and looks really good.
And now people probably spend tens of thousands of pounds trying to replicate something like that
on a computer
on a computer and it not looking anywhere near as good. Whereas you and I could probably do this with some smoke and a fish tank and like you say a bin a bin bag. Get a f****** bin bag. What are they like 10p?
But also I think it it shows from the from the word go it kind of shows the reverence for the that Carpenter has for the first movie.
Yeah.
Which is even more heartbreaking now that we know the director didn't like this. But yeah, so not only is that a little bit different, we hear the first few beats of the music, which I love. Uh, yeah, we do. And it's um is this one of the few, if not the only Carpenter movie that wasn't scored by him?
I don't know if it's the only. I believe it was the first,
okay,
that wasn't scored by him. But any Moricone did try to replicate Carpenters's style, which is why it's so Cynthy.
That seems weird to me. Like
I know, just do it yourself.
Yeah. Why is it because someone was like, "Oh, we can get any." And John was like, "If we can get anyo, we're going to get any. We're going to use any I guess so. I mean, this is probably the first time he had 15 million to play with. So,
yeah, cuz he's like a very much one of these guys that sort of do it yourself kind of

(05:37):
person and he loves his music. That's pretty much all he does now.
Yeah.
So, you would think that he would want to do it. So, which is what makes me think that Yeah, he probably just had that opportunity and was like, well, we might as well use
Maronei then.
But, um, interestingly, any Maricone got a Razi nomination.
Yeah, I heard this. I heard this.
Insane. What? Why?
I don't know. It's I don't know. I think I don't know. I couldn't tell you. It's definitely not a bad I don't love it. Like I prefer almost all of Carpenters's scores himself in his other movies, I think. But I I think it's a little bit flat. I'll be honest.
Okay, I can see why you would say that, but I feel differently.
Be so respectful and diplomatic.
Rather than just going, you idiot. No, it's brilliant.
Call me like it's fine. I don't care. Like, we can have a difference of opinion on this and Maybe that's kind of the difference between me like liking this film and you loving it. Like it's one of those things that works for you more than it does for me. Like I like it, but very rarely am I if it comes on on my Spotify playlist. Very rarely am I listening to it. I'm usually skipping it to Big Trouble in Little China.
Not even Assault on Precinct 13.
Yeah, I'm listening to that. Of course I am.
That's such a banger.
Yeah. Um but yeah. Razi, no. That's It's not a bad score. It's a It's It's a decent score. It's It just doesn't fully work for me independently, but Razy, that seems ridiculous.
It's so harsh.
I bet there was way worse scores out in 1982. It feels like one of those things that a few people like shat on it and then people just sort of start piling on it cuz it was like popular, the the popular thing to do,
probably. But um something that I find fascinating is that uh Moricone then used some unused music that he created for the Thing in The Hateful Eight,
which he got an Oscar for.
That's nuts, isn't it? And that's Isn't that mad how like then he can get the Rzzy for it, but then 30 years later

(05:58):
for pretty much the same work gets an Oscar. That just tells you everything you need to know, doesn't it? About how people view things at one time and they view them differently at another time and how f****** stupid it is really to sit around and criticize things
and how people's influences um how people's opinions are influenced by those around them like like you've said you know it became fashionable to dogpile on the thing so everybody did it
but now it's considered it's held in much higher regard so they're like well okay but now it's Oscar worthy
yeah
it's a bit strange it just kind of makes me want to disregard all awards ceremonies which I tend to do anyway because it's it's all b*******
I think disregard all awards ceremonies. Disregard all opinions. I would go one further. Just like who cares what anyone else thinks? Just like don't listen to anyone. If there's anyone that's sort of sitting around talking about movies and offering their opinions on it, don't listen to them. Like they don't know what they're talking about.
Yeah.
Except for us. We know what we're talking about
sometimes. Um also, can I motion to to get rid of the term guilty pleasure
as an extension of that?
It's just something I like that other people people tend to not like.
Yeah, I love the Step Up movies. They're s***, but I love them and I don't feel guilty about them.
It's fine.
I sort of Yeah, I mean, there there are a few in this season that I would probably put under that umbrella of guilty pleasure, but
but if you don't feel guilty about liking it, then it's a silly term. I don't like it. I don't care for it, Dan.
Yeah. No, that that's fair. Like, you can recognize something is bad, and I do in this season's case. We will. Yeah,
we'll get we'll get to some of those. But but um but I fully know and understand that they're bad, but that in a way is part of the charm. I'm like it's bad, but I still love it.
It still does something for me. So yeah, it's it's weird, isn't it? Like guilty pleasure is sort of tied into that mentality of following.
It's like you should feel shame because this thing is bad and you enjoy it.
No, I refuse.
Yeah, absolutely.

(06:19):
So something that's always puzzled me about the very start of this movie. Is the whole film spoiled for those that understand Norwegian?
I don't understand Norwegian, so I don't know why what what do they say?
Well, it's it's kind of a garbled version of Norwegian, but the loose translation is like it's the dog. It's it's not it's not a dog. Basically, they're telling them like don't trust the dog.
I don't think that's a spoiler necessarily because you're not going to don't trust the dog. You're not going to go oh why cuz is it an alien?
The thing in a movie called The Thing? thing.
I don't It's not the first thing I would think of, be honest with you. I just think like, oh, has it got rabies or something? Is this a Kujo situation?
I guess. I don't know.
But haven't you already seen a spaceship though at that point?
Yeah.
So, I mean, I maybe I'd put two and two together. They're chasing a dog. There was a spaceship earlier. Maybe they're linked somehow. I don't know. It's It's not like it's a like a mystery, is it? Like, it has a mystery element in that there's the paranoia part of it where people don't know the motives of other characters
and who's got
Yeah, but it's not like it's uh it's pretty quick to get going with the whole
there's this f****** thing with tentacles and it's going to change into this thing and that thing like it's not like
for a movie that's
it's not a shut situation where it's like the whole movie is like oh what's going on?
Yeah. For a movie that that um came out 40 years ago when things tended to be a little bit more Blow burn like late '7s early ' 80s. This movie shuttles along.
They don't hang about.
I think I was I'm sort of surprised the handful of times I've seen it, but when I do watch it is how quickly it gets to that stuff with
Yeah.
It's the first time you sort of see the alien do its thing in in the the dog
the kennels. Yeah.

(06:40):
The So the the dog
is it Jed?
It's called Jed.
Well, it's called Jed.
Oh, damn.
Sorry.
Stop. from 40 years ago, man.
Oh, you always do this.
That dog is dead.
Every time we watch a movie and there's an animal in it, you're like, that that animal's dead now.
It's awful.
That dog's grandkids are dead now.
Stop. I think we should just take a moment to appreciate Jed. Can we have a moment of silence for Jed
and the hard work that he did in this movie? Because I know people were talking about there should have been a a category added to the Oscars after the dog performance in Anatomy of a Fall.
There should have been a Catery added in 1982 for Jed. Yeah,
because that is some good dog acting.
That was one of the first notes that I made.
Yeah.
What a good boy. The goodest boy.
Um but it it's kind of heartbreaking if you're an animal lover. It's not a not a fun scene to watch
when his face splits open.

(07:01):
Yeah.
But it's I mean but it's it is fun to watch cuz it's like the effects are so good.
Is that the sort of I think they call called it like the flesh flower and it's just sort of its head opens.
Yeah. Isn't that like uh like what they did in the uh in the blade thing with the dog that who's the their face the
their face is opened the the bros are in it and
one of one of the
I think it was Luke Goss was in it. Yeah, it was Blade 2.
Luke called Matt Bros. Yeah. I don't know. Who cares?
The death race one probably.
Yeah. Didn't they didn't they do that in one of them? Probably the GMO Delta. one I would say cuz there's that one there the first one and then yeah which is the G one so I'm guessing that was probably what inspired by the thing somehow
potentially splitting
I mean ditto stranger things with the demogorgans
very similar effect
yeah I wonder if that was inspired by a lot of other like 80s stuff
no
all original ideas in that show
definitely was not
mining nost nostalgia from its largely middle millennial audience. I can't get my words out today. All tongue tied.
Um, speaking of going back to that, I think it's primarily like tongs and teeth and whatever when it's when its face opens up. Such a good scene because like you just said, they get right to it.
There's very little preamble. You know, you get the sense that something's not quite right and then you're just left with this dog watching it kind of start to shake and shudder and it's it's so impactful, I think. And I I'm a big fan of like creature features. I'm a big fan of body horror. So, it's no surprise that a lot of this film super super works for me. But, I mean, the sequences the sequences with the the visual effect, not the visual effects, the practical effects just wow.
And even as a modern audience member, you can kind of start to put together how they did things. Like when the tentacles start to come out, it's like, well, Yeah, obviously they've done that in reverse or

(07:22):
Oh, I mean I I'm scratching my head. I don't have clue how they did any of it and I work in the industry. I've got no f****** idea.
Yeah, but you're not an effects guy. You're a numbers guy.
Yeah. Well, Zach Well, how much did that f****** KY Jelly cost?
Couldn't you have done it with two and a half liters instead of 5 liters?
I would say the the thing that I like most about this is the effects. They are pretty mind-blowing. I think they hold up today just as well.
I think there's one that lets the film down.
Okay. Will you seen it way more than I have. So, you probably know this, you definitely know this film way better than I do.
So, I I'm sort of, you know, what have I seen it three times now? I think it was twice with you. So, it must be three times I've seen it
once as a literal child.
Yeah. So, like I might as well have just seen it twice in the last few years.
But I I I do think the effects are some of the best I've ever seen.
Um that the the dog part, the the head part.
I think something that's referenced a lot is the chest compressions.
Yeah, that's what I was thinking in my head. I couldn't figure out how to describe it because they had they got Who was the guy? Who was the guy? That guy. The guy with a face. Whoever was doing that.
Um when he's his arms get eaten by the stomach alien.
So teeth aliens.
His name I can never remember. He's he was the doctor, the guy with the nose ring.
And interestingly, if you know what to look for, you can sort of see that there's something a bit a miss in that. But It's shot so cleverly that nobody ever notices.
Yeah.
And basically when um obviously he he goes to do the chest compressions and the chest cavity completely caves in and the rib cage sort of bites his arms off and then it switches to a shot where you're kind of stomps facing the camera. That was actually um a kind of double amputee
wearing a mask of the actor's face.

(07:43):
Yeah. So weird, man.
But you don't notice because your attention is drawn to to his stumps, his bloody arms which are in the foreground. It's so cleverly done.
It's so simple, but I think it's not just Rob Boutine. I think he did phenomenal work in this. Don't get me wrong. And Stan Winston, let's not forget him. But I think in the hands of somebody that isn't John Carpenter, it could have looked like s***.
Well, I think obviously the the um the special effects budget was 10% of the entire thing, so they had 1.5 million to spend. And I I could I couldn't tell you if that's a lot or or not much. I would I suspect probably not much for a film that relies so heavily on effects like this.
It doesn't sound like a lot. And I know Robertine was hospitalized at one point because um he worked himself to the bone and got ex basically suffered from exhaustion.
Yeah, he's just like sleeping on set and basically I think I heard he was just seven days a week basically until the the thing the thing the thing was finished.
He obviously would have had a whole team around him also, but so there are you know, let's let's not forget the other people of course
working under him and also doing a lot of the work. I believe he come up with a lot of the concept designs and sort of worked with Carpenter. I think he actually was trying to get a meeting with John Carpenter early because obviously he was young. He was he was 23 as we said. So maybe maybe he was 22 when he was sort of trying to meet John Carpenter and stuff. Obviously huge fan of Halloween and stuff.
Heard he was working on this sort of remake of this thing and um really wanted to get in there. So I think he did come up with a a lot of these concept designs. So, a lot of it I would say is probably his obviously directed by John Carpenter phenomenally. Uh, so you got like a really good mixture of all of the creature design, um, the effects, how it looks, but also like the way that it's shot. I suspect the lighting and like you said about your focus is on the arms. It's that sort of trickery that it's like the trick of the mind or of the eye where your attention is drawn somewhere else. It's that kind of classical film making that you you I don't want to sound like an old part, but I'm going to because
it was better in the old days,
but now it's like I will fix it in post, you know, like you do sometimes get people that kind of want to do it the old way, but it I guess it's more expensive or it must be a money thing,
I suspect. Um,
well, it's definitely more time consuming and time is money, I guess. So,
yeah. Yeah. But then obviously materials and stuff whereas if you're just paying a nerd on a computer, like you can pay with pittance cuz they just want to be there on a film or whatever. I don't know. And I say that's right. I'm saying That's probably how it is. Um, but it's just a lot of a lot of those old school techniques were really flawlessly executed, I think, in this and you don't see a lot of it anymore. But that's part of the reason why this films like this hold up so well and and they continue to have sort of have a life and people discover it at new stages. Um, every sort of decade or two, uh, new people come to these sorts of things. Like I can't imagine like I'm sure there's someone out there that really likes the Thing remake. I think it's fine
remake, prequel, sequel, or whatever.
Um, but I can't imagine anyone's ever come to that and go and go, "Oh, yeah, actually that's really good." Like that's now my favorite movie.
Um, and like anything kind of sort of CGI based, it just sort of ages very quickly, doesn't it?
Agreed. Agreed.
On the practical stuff, it just it's sort of timeless. Even Even if it doesn't look great, it's a physical thing that's got real lighting on it. It's it's interacting with its environment.
It's got weight. It's got heft. It's not green screen. It's not
just talk to this tennis ball on a stick and pretend it's a creature.

(08:04):
You can't beat it. You just can't. And I I I suspect one day there'll be there'll be a CGI and computerenerated effects that that you just can't even tell is is was computerenerated. I'm sure. But like I think
I'm kind of two minds because this is this is going to sound like I'm going off on a tangent, but stay with me for a second. There's this like obsession current ly with like perfect teeth, the Hollywood smile to the point where every single influence influencer or reality star in the UK f**** off to Turkey, comes back with a row of what look like pellets of chewing gum in their mouth.
They're called the Ruffalo, I think.
Oh, after Mickey 17. See what he did there.
Um to the point where they're now known as turkey teeth. It's such a phenomenon,
but it's gotten to the point where it's so saturated and people are so sick of this so-called perfection that people are actually seeking out imperfection they want actors and actresses that look like real human beings again they don't want this like people always talk about what's known as iPhone face um Dakota Johnson is usually used as quite a prominent example of that she was um I can't remember which film it was she was in a period piece and she looked so wrong um she looked like somebody. I think the I think the phrase was she looked like somebody who knows what an iPhone is. She didn't look like she should have been there.
And I think we're sort of hopefully returning to a point where people want authenticity again. They want imperfections. And and my real hope is that maybe that permeates the industry a little bit. It might take a decade. It might take two decades. But I really want I don't know. My my my desire and my hope is that people kind of don't necessarily want this computerenerated perfection. They get disillusioned with AI and they want human creation with soul
because that's what's going to be missing. Um, and this might seem like a an odd comparison. I think the film came out the day we're recording this episode. Um, it's the new Russo brothers movie called The Electric State.
Oh, is that a Russo brothers movie?
It is a Russo brothers movie. Yeah. Um, it's getting chat on.
Yeah, I was sort of interested in it and then I saw the reviews and I think no, I'm not going to bother.
I was not interested in it because I saw Chris Pran went, "Nope."
Um, but it's getting ripped to shreds and one of the one of the talking points is that um they didn't create the robots. It's it seemingly all CGI.
Yeah.
And that's been a big complaint. So, my hope is that maybe we'll go backwards a little bit in time.
I just I think it's a really good tool to just used to enhance things like, you know, Fury Road is a good example.
Yeah.
Perfect stunts but touched up with CGI.
That's exactly it. Yeah. It should be a tool. It shouldn't be a full-on replacement.
No, I totally agree. Unfortunately, it just comes down to money and what people will just watch. I I I
But people aren't watching that. Like, people are getting so sick of this $300 million slop that we keep getting given.

(08:25):
But they are watching it though, aren't they? Like people all over the world are talking about how s*** this thing is and people are tuning into like I don't know what the numbers are with with the streaming platforms Netflix and stuff if they're still releasing them but like if people are talking about it and they're watching it isn't that all that matters is all they care about like cynically speaking I don't want to watch it
so disappointing
I I know um I don't know maybe perhaps in a cinema like cinematically pe audiences are maybe getting a bit more wise to it I don't know because it does feel like in the last couple of years some of the blockbusters are starting to do less numbers.
Yeah, there's been so many bombs
and then more original stuff like the substance maybe is a good example of that where people are just sort of um it sort of enjoying that sort of thing a bit more a bit more independent and
with practical effects
with practical effects. Yeah, I think there's I think there's I personally would prefer to see practical effects use CGIs at all as we say like it's there it's been it's been there for as probably as long as we've been alive almost. But the best projects sort of use it and you don't really notice it. It's there to enhance,
not like a, you know, Black Panther battle scene where they're just flying through the air and it's just kind
weightless.
Yeah. Weightless. That's That's the thing that really stands out, isn't it? And
yeah,
and I get sort of get sick of of the superhero stuff when they're just sort of jumping around and you can just see that they're not
it's nothing. It's just you might as well be watching
or something. Yeah.
But I think to take it back to the thing. It's one of the reasons that this holds up so well. Like it's it's never really going to age any more than it has done already. Like it might look a bit grainy. The sound might be not might not be great. Like we we don't really have like a 4K setup or anything. So I don't really know what that looks like, but um like it's never going to age any more than it has.
And like I say, there's only really one effect that I can think of that really does let the side down. And that is the the couch scene
when they're doing the the finger pricks and then the guy's head sort of opens and chomps
the other guy and then he's sort of being lifted up into the air and flying. It's very clearly a dummy,
right?
Um but that's the only thing. Okay.
And it's not necessarily

(08:46):
I don't know, maybe it's unfair to even call it an effect. I guess they just had to use what they could. And again, it's to do with fact that the dummy is clearly a third of the weight of a human man.
So, it just doesn't look right.
But even then, I can admire a creative solution to that problem.
Yeah.
How would you categorize this movie? Cuz obviously,
it's a horror movie.
Obviously, it's a horror movie.
But I mean, I think it straddles so many different subg genres.
Okay, give me some. What do you What do you reckon?
Well, body horror we've already talked about. Creature feature we've already talked about.
Isn't that all horror though?
Yes. Which is I said subg genre.
Got you. That's that's what that means. Okay. Yeah.
Um, alien invasion, paranoid thriller, like it it encompasses quite a few things, I think.
Yeah.
Um, within that genre,
comedy, like slapstick.
Oh, yeah. Yeah. Laugh a minute. Um, do you find this movie to be particularly tense?
Um, because I feel like the answer I feel like your answer is going to be no. And I think maybe that's why you like it less than I do.
I don't Yeah, I don't find it particularly tense. I don't I couldn't tell you why I don't find it tense because like on paper it's like
well we don't really know who the thing is and you don't ever really get given any answers do you about like who became the thing or like when people became the thing.

(09:07):
Case in point Wilfred Brimley's character because it seems like he's not the thing and then at one point he Here's the thing. How when did that happen? Um, yeah. So, in to answer your question, I don't find it particularly tense, but I feel like I should because it is it is that kind of that that paranoia and it it does it's meant to be that way, isn't it? You're meant to feel the tension.
I find it unbearably tense.
Even though you know exactly how it's going to play out.
Yeah. When I'm like when I'm watching this in a proper environment, like lights off, focus is at the TV, I'm sat down invested in what's going on on the screen. I can't help but get sucked into it. Yeah. I find it unbearably tense, which I think is probably for me like its biggest selling point that it retains that the power to do that cuz that's the feeling that I chase. That's what one of the reasons I love horror as a genre so much.
I'm forever I mean, how many times have you heard me say, "Oh my god, this new movie's just dropped on shudder and people are calling calling it the scariest film of the last 5 years." Cuz I'm chasing that feeling. And obviously we watch it and I'm disappointed every time.
Yeah. It's never the scariest movie you've ever seen.
It's never never even remotely scary because I've seen so much I'm just immune to it now. But I'll never stop chasing that feeling.
Yeah.
And films like this kind of deliver it for me. I wouldn't call it scary, but it's so tense.
But the tension is like a like it makes you feel something, I guess.
Yeah. It makes me feel anxious for sure. Yeah. It gives me a human emotion.
And what what is it about this movie that make gives you the anxiety because you know how it's going to play out. So is it is it just like how it's pres how the information is presented to you? Is it because you you're not cuz you must know this film like the back of your hand? Like how many times have you seen this now?
Oh, I couldn't tell you.
A lot though.
A lot. Yeah,
it's more than me.
Yes, it's more than three times.
But so I just I'm trying to wrap my head around what it would what would be tense about it basically I guess cuz to me the tension is in the sort of the unknown of how things is going to play out, but you know how it's going to play out. But then I suppose you have all of the unanswered questions, but then they're still not answered. So I guess by the end of the movie, I'm just like, "Oh, well, we don't f****** know. Forget about it.
You're not going to tell me, are they? Just we can talk about it."
So for me, the tension is derived from the human drama and the performances. I think the performances are all so solid and the interactions are all I think I think the script is incredibly clever. I think it's pitch perfect.
Carpenter, right? this and I'm pretty sure he did.

(09:28):
But it it's just I don't know. I think the script is perfect. And you know me, you know that's one of the things that I tend to pick apart. Like if if a film looks good and it's exciting but has a s*** script, I'm out. I'm checked out mentally. But I I think this is just brilliantly done. And just the scenes where I don't know. I guess it's I guess it's empathy talking like trying to put myself in a position where I don't know if everybody that I'm surrounded with not just surrounded by but trapped with any one of them could be a a parasitic alien come to take over the planet. That's terrifying. That's such a scary notion.
But isn't that's the case in all situations though, isn't it? Like anyone could be a parasitic alien. Like if you go into a meeting, you never know. Like it's the chances of someone being a parasitic alien are not zero%.
They're never zero, but it's unlikely.
There's always a chance. But in this case, it's almost 100% that at least one person is probably going to be an alien.
Yeah.
Um and I just I find that that paranoia so well done.
So so well done. Um what do you think this movie is supposed to be about? Like we know almost all horror Well, no, all horror is kind of political. All horror, all good horror exists to hold a mirror up to society. to say something about the times it was made in.
Do you think vampires is political?
Well, no. I said all good horror.
That's true. You did. That's another one of those situations where it's bad, but I love it.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Um I No. I think I think most horror films are political, if not all.
All right.
Whether they're intended to be or not, I think they say something about the time they were made in
and the person that made them.
I suppose that is kind of the mark of horror, isn't it? That's kind of the intention or the original intention maybe. is to say something that is not being said. Maybe in a kind of like standup comedy in that way, like people are sort of outside looking in and criticizing a thing or
getting something off their chest or expressing something in a way that works for them.
But again, good comedy because if you're Michael McIntyre, you're just probably talking about Nandos or something.
Yeah. Weird. You have to queue in.
f*** off. f*** off. And

(09:49):
you know, he orders mild as well.
Yeah. Yeah. Um, but what do what do I think it's about? I'm really bad at this sort of question because it it means I have to use my brain and I'm not very good at that. I think I have heard John Carpenters in his own words say that he well it came out in the early 80s. There was the whole AIDS thing where it was they were not really sure what it was or where it came from or how it was transmitted and there was a lot of paranoia about how it was transmitted. there is a lot of false information going around. So, I've heard him speak on that. So, I can only tell you that that's what I've heard. I haven't really got my own opinion on it because I just didn't really didn't really think about it or or nothing occurred to me while I was watching it. But hearing him say that I I can see where he's coming from.
Mhm.
It's funny because uh
What's the right answer?
I Well, there's never a right or wrong answer, is there? In in what you think a film is about.
Yeah. But I'm saying I don't really know. No, but I think I think that's a really solid answer,
but that's John Carpenters's answer.
John Carpenter can't always be trusted.
He's said wildly
precisely. No, he's said wildly contradictory things about the ending and the fate of um Childs and McCreat.
Oh, was he?
Yes. Which we'll get to.
All right.
So, I think
What do you think is about
I think he likes to mess with people.
Yeah. Oh, without a question. Yeah, for sure.
What does it mean? What's it for you, though, then? This
I think you're probably right. And that's what makes the most sense to me. For a while I was like, well, it could just be about like the kind of postcold war paranoia thing like who amongst us could be a spy.
Yeah.

(10:10):
Um
well, there was I suppose for some reason I think about Oppenheimer
cuz like obviously we saw that movie that was too long and very boring,
but um there's that whole stuff about him being a communist which I I had no idea about. Um so I guess that was a bit of a thing back then like who's who's a secret communist. Yeah.
And I know we sort of touched on it earlier with the novela. I think that was kind of
the subtext of that.
So I guess that sort of links into the the spy thing in a way.
But I like your answer better and I think it plays out better. It's the theory that I had in mind when I watched it this time.
Yeah.
And it it's the one that makes the most sense to me. Even down to really kind of um throwaway actions. Like there's a point at which I think it's Windows who takes a needle that's been used by somebody else and he wipes it like he's sort of dis vaguely disgusted that he might be sharing germs with somebody. So I think if you watch it with that in mind that makes 100% sense.
Well, you've obviously got the whole blood test thing in there as well like it's
it's they call it an infectious disease effectively.
Yeah. And you're not sure like at the time as well obviously we know way more about HIV and AIDS these days. Um and it's but back then like no one really knew what it was. because uh how it was transmitted. There was all of this nonsense like you can catch it from sitting on the toilet seat or whatever like and it was obviously complete bollocks
but people didn't really know then it took a long time for that stuff to go away as well like not until probably the 2000s and perhaps even slightly later where
I think some people are still pretty ignorant ignorant about it to be honest
100% but like back then I would say it was the common place like you go to a film like uh Philadelphia maybe which is you know when was that 92 where there was obviously the prejudice that showed in that movie about that thing so yeah I don't know like 82 early 80s it was definitely a time where people a lot of people were losing their lives to that disease and a lot of people were just scared and afraid and
and it it's quite interesting I haven't actually looked up any
like you know you sometimes get these really old like public health messages and you you watch it and you go Is this f****** satire? Like, what is it? And I bet there's some crazy s*** about that, actually.
Yeah, for sure.
Yeah.
Um, but yeah, I think you've kind of hit the nail on the head there because that's something this film does so well in sort of like displaying the whole it could be any of us because there's no there's nothing in somebody's outward appearance that would necessarily tip you off.

(10:31):
Um, and that's very much the same here. Unless you see them assimilation, which we don't really. I think that's one of the things I love about this film is that you don't really I mean, I'm guessing some of the decisions were budgetary constraints.
Yeah.
But I think we only really see like one assimilation of a human
and I think that's expertly done because it keeps the audience on their toes. It keeps us guessing.
Yeah, it probably is a bit of a budget thing, but also like
But it's a smart choice.
But it's I suppose Yeah, it is a smart choice in that it probably save to money, but also it does fit in with the whole we just don't know who who who is a thing and who is not a thing.
So yeah, it does fit in with that whole thing.
And stuff like um you were talking about Wilfr Brimley earlier and
did he have a mustache in this?
I don't think he did. I think that's why he looked weird. He was like a freshfaced a young freshfaced Wilford Brimley 48.
Yeah. Well, 47 when he was making it, I guess.
5 years older than me.
Yeah.
Holy s***.
Yeah.
Um but I love some of that stuff. as well. You've already talked about it a little bit, but like we don't know if he's an alien, if he's been infected. Um, and then you sort of see him darting about outside and he's kind of taking the helicopter apart and he's
Yeah.,
you know, removing engines from things and stuff and you're just like, "Oh god, he's an alien." And he's trying to sabotage their getaway, but then you find out that he's kind of building his own thing
to try to get away, but you're left you're left kind of up in the air cuz it's like, oh, is it cuz he's done the maths about worldwide assimilation and he's just trying to um sabotage them so none of them can escape?
Well, that's Yeah, that's kind of what I was thinking like because he has that. By the way, did they have AI in 1982?

(10:52):
That was the uh chat GPT prototype, I believe.
Yeah, cuz he was like, "How long will it take for the entire world to be infected?" They were like, "Oh, about four minutes, I guess." Um and he was like, "f***." All right. Well, so yeah, it is it's clever because they're not sure if he's are the thing. So like Brimley, f*** off. We're going to lock you in the shed in case you're the thing.
Did they threaten him with morphine?
Uh
I feel like they said they were going to inject him with morphine at some point. In which case, like maybe I'm an alien. Don't threaten me with a good time.
That's a threat, is it? Okay. Yeah.
Um Yeah. So they they lock him up and you're like, he's obviously the thing at the end cuz he's building a spaceship, right?
Yes. Yeah.
A rudimentary spaceship from bits of helicopter and f****** fly or whatever from the shed. Um, but it's not it's not clear when he became the thing.
Uh, and what are his motives for destroying a place, which is that's interesting to think about cuz it's like is he the thing and he's taking it apart so he can make a spaceship or is he not of the thing and he just doesn't want the whole world to be infected so he's kind of doing this altruistic thing like we're all going to going to die. But the best thing we can do is just uh make sure that this the thing doesn't get out into the world.
That's why I think it's so smartly done though cuz we are left guessing for the majority of the runtime.
I suppose it's quite subtle like it's not it's not asking you to think about that, but it's just not it's like the sort of thing that you think about afterwards. I'm not thinking at the time, oh, is he in a thing or whatever. I'm just seeing him smash up stuff and wondering where his mustache is and if he's going to be in a cocoon three. But he it's it's like I'm not thinking about that until afterwards really and I guess that's the smart way to do it and that's why people sort of continue to have the conversation about it now because even now like you don't really know and I think that I think Carpenter does have a definitive answer to specifically the the ending right at least.
No.
Oh I really
he said different things.
Okay.
He's not full on done like a David Lynch and just gone no it's about nothing.
Yeah.
Or you tell me
cuz well I the I suppose if we're going into the area about who's the thing and who's not the thing,
then the most obvious uh way part of it to discuss would be the very ending when you've got uh the two guys at the end and who is the thing and who is not the thing. Yeah.

(11:13):
McCriedi and Charles.
Yes.
Yeah. And there I guess you can look at it many ways. What what was one theory I heard about someone having an earring and not having an earring?
Yeah. Well, they talked about that, didn't they? Like the the aliens can only replicate um organic matter effectively. So they think the fact that Child has an his earring in at the end suggests he is human.
I couldn't remember what way around it was whether he had it or he didn't have it at the end, but he has it. So yes,
suggestion would be maybe the alien just put the earring in after. Right.
Maybe there's like I'm not saying I think this is about as close to perfection as a movie can get, but I'm not saying it's 100% perfect because there are things I have issues with. One thing which I guess could be written off as character stupidity. Um is
who who's a stupid one?
Well,
who's proctor?
So, the scene when the the blood scene, the petri dish scene.
Yeah.
They're all using the same knife to cut themselves, but they've been told that this is an infectious disease.
Oh, f***. Like,
if they're all using the same knife, and the first one who does it is an alien, everybody's f*****.
I think you've just cracked it. I think they're all the thing
maybe. Um, but Carpenter did come out and say at one point that um, oh, it's clear that Child's is the thing because he's not breathing. You can see McCre's breath and you can't see Child's breath.
Yeah.
Um, but apparently that's b*******. At one point you do see his breath, right?
So, he's just messing with people.
Yeah, he does. He seems like the type.

(11:34):
He does. He absolutely does. Crutchy m***********. But going back to the video, game that you mentioned earlier. So, the video game starts entirely as the film ends. Child's froze to death. McCriedi is rescued.
Why didn't he freeze to death? Cuz he's full of whiskey.
Um, yeah. And the beard, I guess, kept him warm.
I don't know. It was It was quite a beard.
He did that, Parker.
Apparently, the hair and the beard took him a full year to grow. Yeah.
Bloody hell. How's But it was his last minute casting though. So, how does Was he just growing a beard? just in case I I'm in the thing. Or
maybe they wanted Nick Noly. He was first choice.
I could see that actually.
Yeah, cuz I think they wanted like a sort of a bigger guy.
Yeah,
like Kurt Russell's not a small guy, but he he's not like some hulking behemoth.
He's no Lou Farerigno, is he?
No, I can't imagine this with Lou Farigno in the lead role.
I heard he was first choice. The studio was first choice. Yeah.
Green or not green?
Green.
Green. Okay.
Well, He's the thing.
Initially, he wasn't green and then someone made him angry. He was like, "Don't make me angry.
You wouldn't like me when I'm angry."

(11:55):
That very niche Stuart Lee reference there.
Yeah.
About three people got that.
What do you think? What who do you Who do you think is the thing at the end of the movie? Child's and Mac.
Well, if you remove the video game, which is difficult because to set its cannon.
But I'm saying what do you like this movie on its own? Your own thoughts. You're watching this lights off.
What do you think at the end of the movie?
I mean, it's taken as its own beast. It's a very bleak nihilistic ending, which kind of makes me wonder if that was the reason for some of the push back when it was released. Maybe people just didn't want nihilism.
Well, I I did hear that there was a there was an original ending. This is
There were a few.
Yeah. So, there were a few I think there was one when they uh were rescued and then one where one of them was was a thing and the other one wasn't maybe and they sort of res they sort of came to this
ambiguous ending which I guess sort of works well and is one of the reasons we're sort of talking about
I really like it
but if you had to just if you had to make a choice either of those two are the thing
Mhm.
or is one of them are the thing or neither of them are the thing
okay if I get to choose. I think McCriedi is a The thing because I think that's the more interesting ending that our hero as it were is a the thing.
Yeah.
And also he doesn't have any earrings so it's diff more difficult to um to write Child's off as a the thing.
Yeah. I would say that's probably I mean he's not really a hero, is it? Like he's he's he's
he's kind of an anti-hero. He's our de facto leader.

(12:16):
He's the leader. Yeah, he sort of emerges as the leader of the group, but not because of some like heroic
no
characteristics. It's because he just wants to survive. He wants to live. And he's kind of willing to do anything to do that. Like he's he's not very nice, is he? He He kills Adrien Barau with that whiskey and then he doesn't he kill an actual like a man, isn't it? Cuz that when they test the blood of someone, didn't they say, "Well, that doesn't that make you a murderer now?" So, did he kill a human? Is that what the implication was there? So, there's that he has murdered people.
So, there was um there was an element to McCre's character that didn't make it into the film. Uh I know Carpenter and Russell talked about McCriedi having been at war. Basically, he was a veteran.
Yeah. I heard this was part of his backstory. Yeah.
Which they kind of s*** canned in the end or it certainly wasn't mentioned in the film, but would explain why he doesn't necessarily have as horrified a reaction as the others do to the violence and the gore
and why he sort of very reluctantly adopts the role of leader cuz it doesn't seem like it's a role he necessarily wants. But like you said, he just wants to live.
I think he's just taking over. Like I don't think he wants to be the leader. He's just like, I don't trust any of you.
I'm f****** I can only trust myself. I know I'm not the thing.
I certainly can't trust Wilfred Brimley, so we're going to lock him in a room.
Yeah.
Yeah. He can't even trust his computer.
Yeah. All he can trust is that that sweet J&B whiskey. Yeah.
Which we've drunk. We had a bottle of that, didn't we? A while ago. Didn't last very long.
So, you think the interesting ending would be uh McCriedi is at a thing?
Yeah, cuz it's already been speculated that Child's. So, to me, the more interesting ending is that McCriedi's been taken over.
And at what point was he taken over?
We don't know.
This is not a film that delivers every answer. But
was he always in a thing?
No. Well, it's obviously post blood test, wasn't it?

(12:37):
I don't know. I don't know.
Maybe it was just before he uh caused the explosion underground,
right? Did he Oh, yeah. I forgot they had one of those Acme
like a TNT plunger.
The plunger plunger bombs.
Yeah. Which are they real?
Um yeah, I think so.
Okay. I think it was only Wy Coyote that had access to those.
No, it was also RJ McCriedi.
Yeah.
Um apparently the the explosion was much bigger than anybody had anticipated. So Kurt Russell's reaction is real. He wasn't expecting it.
Oh no. Apparently as well like there was a part in the movie where I can't remember who it was. It was someone on the crew or in the cast but they had to I think it had something to do with the matte paintings. Um beautiful matte paintings in this by the way which you've not even spoken about.
Not the first time we'll be talking about matte paintings this season.
Oh really? Really?
Okay. But like a lost art form that just you can't you can't cannot be
such a creative workaround.
Yeah. Uh I think the bit with the spaceship is the the best example I can think of like just the the scope that you can achieve with that in the 80 like back then
and it still looks good now. Like even then you're like wow that looks great but I think it was something to do with the map paintings and then wanting to uh achieve a certain lighting. So they were waiting around for like a magic hour situation or whatever. The helicopter pilot was like okay well how long are we going to wait? Um, and they wait they they ended up waiting ages and they went, "Well, okay, we're going to go now." And they flew off in a helicopter. And as they were in the air, they were like, "I don't know if we've got enough fuel to get home." And it was really worrying apparently. Like they didn't even know if they were going to get make it all the way back. And they they said, "We might have to land and stay in a helicopter." In which case,
do they freeze to death? Like who knows? So it was a bit bit shaky. Like it was a bit like 50/50 whether or not they were going to make it. It's crazy to think about like on a on a Hollywood production cuz they did shoot
they shoot shot some of this. Um, when do you know where this was shot? I can't think of the
I think it was British Columbia.

(12:58):
That's it. Yeah, it was British Columbia. Yeah,
they shot a lot of the That's where they had the set like the cabins and stuff set up. And uh
Yeah. So the the US camp and the Norwegian camp were the same set,
right? Right.
They just filmed the Norwegian stuff after the US set have been destroyed so they didn't have to build two.
Right. Yeah. Well, they shot it in 2011 as well.
Um, yeah. They also shot a load of stuff in a in a studio in LA, didn't they? Did you hear about this?
I heard that they had to lower the temperature.
Yeah.
On an internal set. Yeah. And it was like really f****** warm outside.
Apparently, it was like like one of the hottest summers ever. They had a like a super cold like air conditioned set and they somehow they increase the humidity in there because that's what how you can see your breath. That's that's how that works somehow. I don't f****** know.
That's what they said. So, it was really cold. So, they're all in their parkers and like thick wintry type gear inside and then they go out to lunch and it would just absolutely roast him. But they got so sick of changing from one situation to the next. They just would just brave the walk to the canteen and everyone was giving them a weird look like why are you f****** dressed in a parker man? It's like we're everyone's melting here. But yeah, what a weird thing. Like getting ill all the time like that constant change like severe change in temperature. Like that's a horrible
horrible situation to work in.
Yeah, it doesn't sound pleasant. Yeah.
Yeah. I wonder how much of it was on set versus location.
Well, I would say um from cuz there is there is a the commentary with John Carpenter and Kurt Russell. Uh I did watch some of it on YouTube like there's a version of it on YouTube where they don't show you the film. They just they sort of have stills of the film throughout like every
minute or so they change to a still that's around about that sort of area.
Um so I I think I watched about four or 45 minutes of that at 1.5 speed the other night and um that's where I heard a lot of this stuff I think and
but you told everybody you listened to the whole thing.
Yeah. Yeah. I rated it on airbox.
Yeah. Um

(13:19):
yeah, the the external stuff was all British Columbia, but a lot of the internal stuff was uh set. So like when they've got Did they have a pool table or am I thinking of the the um the the the Norwegian version? I was going to say am I thinking of the 2011 version?
I do you know what? Cuz we watched them in such quick succession. I don't think they had a pool table.
Someone had a pool table when I can't remember who it was, but uh well, the part where Jed the dog sort of is walking under the table like all of that stuff was in the studio a lot in in Los Angeles,
but like you never know like I suppose that's the magic
kind of film making really
movie magic
and I I I had no idea that it was the relative humidity that that made uh breath visible rather than the actual temperature.
I didn't realize This is going to be a science lesson as well.
Yeah,
I feel like I'm walking away from this much smarter than I was at the start.
I think this is the most intellectual this season is going to get. Like there's some doubt movies coming up.
I I don't know if I'm glad that we've got the like the thing thing like because it is a weird movie, isn't it? Like it's it's it's kind of is it a popcorn kind of entertaining movie? I would say on one level it is because of the creature effects and Yeah, but I think it's smarter than that.
Entertainment value. But yeah, it is absolutely smarter than that. Like
it's got more substance than the average popcorn movie.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it has. Definitely. And I don't know if I'm glad that we've got the the more interesting subtext conversation out the way now and we can go into dumb f****** now from now on. Or if we' have built up to this. Why did we start with the thing?
I can't remember.
Because uh I think you just asked me what we should start with and I said the thing.
Yeah. Without thinking.
I suppose might that might become more apparent as we get further along the season and sort of the the whole season is out and we can sort of see the journey chart the journey from the thing to whatever we end up on.
I think next week is going to be uh quite divorced from this week.
Yeah. I I suppose so. It's it's my choice next week, isn't it?

(13:40):
Mhm. And you've gone with It's a film I've been dying to. I haven't seen this for for for I was going to say ages, but it's probably like five years. I suppose that's quite a long time. Um, just recently got a nice uh is it 88 films or 101? I can't remember, but they
I want to say 101.
A nice new brand new 101 release and I'm dying to watch it. It's masters.
You're doing the Donald Trump hand gesture and it's freaking me out.
You were just You were just going like that.
Does he do that?
Yeah.
Doesn't he go like that though?
Yeah, he does that. He does the invisible um accordion a lot. Was he? Well, I wasn't doing that. I wasn't doing the YMCA shuffle thing either.
Why would you say that to me?
Oh, now I can't think of anything. We're doing Masters of the Universe.
Yes.
The 1987 f****** masterpiece. That was a flop. And it's a it's a cannon films.
Yeah.
So, I think there's going to be like a lot to talk about
and I'm hoping that there's quite a lot of good extras on this fancy new version. I probably paid too much money for, but it's beautiful and I've never owned it on Blu-ray, so I'm dead excited to watch it.
Yeah. My choice next week. Film two out of 10. Masters of the Universe.
Yes. I'm so happy that I finally got to talk about The Thing.
Finally. Yeah,
finally.
I blows my mind that you've never covered this before.

(14:01):
Um, if you enjoyed our chat about The Thing, you should definitely go and listen to our um our podcast. 's show called Just the Thing.
Yeah.
Where they work that into every single episode.
I was going to make a joke in the episode. Wouldn't it be great if someone started a podcast where they have to get The Thing into whatever movie they're talking about?
Yeah, someone should do that.
Someone should do that.
That's such a genius idea.
Um, yeah. So, go and check that out. We'll put a link in the show notes.
And also, if you've made it this far, please consider supporting us on Patreon because it's it's only the Patreons that kind of fund this. We've never had a sponsorship. We don't do adverts at the moment. Um hopefully never will.
Well, we can't promise. Somebody offers us some sweet ad money, I'm not going to say no.
I I'm not beyond selling out. If we can still do what we want to do, put a f****** ad in there and you can skip it. Like,
depends what it's for. I'm not shilling better help to the unsuspecting public.
But anyway,
yeah, you have a conscience. That's that's the thing. Like my brain's like I hear all these adverts when I'm listening to podcasts and I'm just like just skip it. just skip it 10 seconds until you get to the thing and it's fine.
But yeah, you can also join as a free member and check out
all the films, all 10 films that we're covering this season. Um, which I think this season is just going to be a doozy.
Yeah, it's a fun one. It's definitely a fun one.
I'm looking forward to next week.
Yeah, me me too. Quillor

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The Thing (1982) - S10 E73

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}The Thing (1982) - S10 E73