March 11, 2025 • 25 mins
Welcome to the "Show Me The Way" podcast with David Seitter
In this episode of "Show Me the Way," Dave sits down with Dawn Shuler, CEO of the Shuller Group LLC, to discuss post-acquisition integration and post-closing matters. This episode explores the often overlooked process of cultural due diligence. Together they discuss how to integrate a company after an acquisition, emphasizing culture, leadership, and communication.
Ep. 64 — Post-Acquisition Integration with Dawn ShulerUnderstanding efficient communication within an organization is crucial to its success. Dawn shares her extensive experience in helping companies enhance their internal communication strategies. With a focus on creating effective systems that promote clarity and reduce friction, Dawn's methods can transform a business's communication landscape.
The Journey of Dawn ShulerDawn Shuler brings a wealth of knowledge from her established career, working with a variety of organizations to improve their communication frameworks. Her expertise lies in identifying barriers to effective communication and implementing practical solutions. In this episode, she discusses her journey and how her strategies can be applied to any organization looking to refine its communication processes.
Strategies for Better CommunicationDawn emphasizes that strong communication starts with understanding and actively engaging with team members. She outlines her approach to crafting communication frameworks that are both scalable and adaptable to an organization's needs. Whether it's enhancing team meetings or improving digital communication, Dawn shares actionable insights that leaders can implement immediately.
Overcoming Communication ChallengesEvery organization faces unique communication challenges. Dawn discusses common pitfalls and how addressing these issues not only improves morale but can lead to significant productivity gains. Her advice is grounded in real-world applications and draws on her experiences in helping organizations move past communication barriers.
Connect with Dawn ShulerTo learn more about Dawn Shuler's work and how she can assist your organization, feel free to connect with her through https://www.theshulergroupllc.com/ or LinkedIn. Whether you aim to optimize your current strategies or need help resolving persistent issues, Dawn’s expertise can guide your business to more effective communication practices.
To reach out to Dave for advice or consultation, please visit www.davidseitter.com or email him at dseitter4@gmail.com
Disclosure
This podcast is provided for educational purposes. It does not constitute legal advice and is not intended to establish an attorney-client relationship. The recommendations contained in this podcast are not necessarily appropriate for every individual or business. In determining the best course of action, business owners should consult with an attorney on their distinct circumstances.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Dave (00:00):
Show me the way episode 64 post closing architect in this episode.
Ladies and gentlemen, we're going to talk with Don Shuler,the owner of Shuler group on post acquisition, post closing matters, or we're talking about his integration.
Ladies and gentlemen, we've not had this conversation before.
It's time to have it because it comes up in every M and a
(00:37):
come to show me the web podcast about business succession,planning the merger and acquisition experience.
And successful exits.
I'm your host, Dave Sider.
I want to thank you for checking out my podcast series.
Show me the way.
If you are seeking assistance with your business dreams,please consider checking out the resources that I've made available to you at either my LinkedIn website or my podcast.
(01:02):
Again, show me the way, or you can check out mybook, quiet plans and exciting results available on Amazon in either written or audible format.
And as well, my website's davidsider.
com, where I have quite a bit of content for you toconsider and information on how you can, for a very nominal price, access an assessment that you and I can
(01:26):
review together to discuss where you're at and whereyou want to go as far as your dreams are concerned.
And I would look forward to talking to you about your future.
Joining me on today's show is DonShuler of the Shuler Group, LLC.
And I wanted to bring Dawn on here because this isthe first time with all the podcasts I've ever done that I'm bringing someone on to the show to talk about what happens after the sale of the company occurs.
(01:57):
Specifically, the integration process.
And it's funny because I was talking aboutthe This today with somebody else on their experiences, and it just has not been good.
I haven't found a whole lot of people.
It's been a good experience.
So I'm looking forward to learning something.
I know you will as well.
Dawn, welcome to the show,
Dawn Shuler (02:15):
Dave.
Thank you for having me.
I'm delighted to be here.
Dave (02:19):
So I want everyone to kind of get to know my guests up close in person, personal.
Tell me a little bit about yourself.
Where were you born?
I'm from Brooklyn.
Dawn Shuler (02:27):
All right.
Well, that's going to make itinteresting from the very beginning.
I was born in the backseat of a car in Mississippi.
Dave (02:37):
All right.
Ladies and gentlemen, this justwent to number one on the list here.
Okay.
I love this.
What part of Mississippi?
Dawn Shuler (02:48):
Meridian, Mississippi, which is I believe near Jackson.
I don't have any, I don't have any memory because my mothermoved with my grandparents to Norfolk, Virginia, probably a year and a half later, my grandfather was in the Navy.
And so moving to places that hadnaval bases when he deployed her.
Dave (03:09):
Whenever.
Well, to your point, there is a naval facility inMeridian, Mississippi, because my son went there.
So that's probably why your grandfather was there, right?
Yep.
Got it.
All right.
And it's over, I think it's on the eastern side of thestate, as I recall, a little bit away from Jackson.
There's, ladies and gentlemen, there's something youhaven't heard from any of the other guests before.
So let's go.
So you went to, do they call it NAAFC?
(03:31):
There's a way that they say it.
Dawn Shuler (03:32):
Yes.
It is, is that, so again, and I, I'vegot, I got a whole lot of stories.
I don't really have any memories of Norfolk.
My earliest memories are of Pennsylvania.
And then when I was in third grade, we moved to Oregon.
Wow.
About a year later, moved to the Dallas area.
And that's where I really think of myself as growing up.
(03:53):
That's where I graduated high school.
I went to college in, in Dallas at Southern MethodistUniversity and then moved to the East coast in 1995.
Dave (04:04):
Unbelievable.
So, when you came out of college, moved to the East Coast, whatis it that you first did that led you up to where you are now?
I'm just kind of curious.
How do you make?
The jump into integration.
Dawn Shuler (04:17):
So, boy, that's, it's, it's interesting.
Cause maybe like a lot of people, my path seems very meandering.
You might find this interesting.
When I went to SMU, the reason I choseSMU is because they have a law school.
And I thought I wanted to go into corporate laws.
And so I thought if I went to undergrad.
I would, I'd have a better chance ofgetting accepted into the law school.
(04:40):
And then I was a smart cookie, not a dumb bunny.
And I worked in their pro bono legalclinic for my first three years.
Pretty soon into working at the, at the legal clinic.
I decided I don't want to be a lawyer.
Dave (04:57):
You were smart.
That was very smart.
Dawn Shuler (05:00):
And thankfully I figured that out before going down that path.
So I. I stayed with my, my degree in Englishand I got a second degree in business because again, I was going to go into corporate law.
So even if I wasn't going to be a lawyer, I, I knewthat I was drawn to those two fields and came out of school going, well, I'm not going to be a lawyer.
(05:22):
So what do I do?
So I actually taught English for two years inTexas and was miserable, hated every minute of it.
And my first husband, At the time, he was miserable in hisjob, and that's why we picked up and moved to Maryland.
And then started my own company, managing otherpeople's businesses, and then got into the coaching and training and consulting piece.
(05:46):
And so that's where I've been for over 20 years.
Dave (05:49):
So when we talk about the Shuler Group, tell us everything that you do.
Let's start with that premise.
Dawn Shuler (05:55):
Everything we do.
Wow.
Let's see.
So our flagship product is our proprietarydiagnostic tool called the company climate inventory.
And it's, it's an assessment that really measures the healthof an organization in all sorts of areas, leadership, culture, communication, management, engagement, job satisfaction.
(06:17):
And then we're able to analyze theresults and give the clients results.
What are the strengths of the organization?
What are the challenges?
What are our recommended areas of focus and priority order, andthen an implementation roadmap, here's what you can do about it.
Dave (06:31):
So how are you brought in and when are you brought in?
I mean, how does that, that happen?
Dawn Shuler (06:36):
So let me just add a little bit more to it, to what we do, because that does.
Determine when a company might bring us in.
So we also, then we have our training and consultingservices around either management, training, communication, training, those kinds of things.
So when do clients bring us in the really savvy clients?
And I think you might find this interesting.
Dave are the ones who say.
(06:59):
You know, I want to know what's goingon in my organization as the leader.
I think I know what's going on, but do I really, as we know,a lot of things can get filtered out or softened by the time it gets all the way up to the head of the organization.
And so the savvy ones go, I want to know what's going on.
One of our longstanding clients, shewas a new CEO for this organization.
(07:24):
And she said, I don't have a history with this organization.
I need to know the stories and what's really going on.
So they brought us in to do acompany climate inventory for them.
And it was very enlightening.
Others that they're the managing partner of a firm and they say.
Well, if I'm really taking over, then what am I dealing with?
(07:47):
And, and so those are some reasons that again, the savvyleaders and then other clients bring us in when things are on fire and they say, we might need to fix something.
And so there's the both ends of the spectrum.
Dave (08:02):
Wow.
That's interesting.
I've got to write that down and remember it.
That has, I think, a lot of valuefor a lot of people that I know.
So I've learned something now.
Thank you for that.
So Don, what I have found over the years, or atleast why I have great interest in wanting to talk to you, is usually when I'm at the closing, I'm done.
(08:27):
And I don't know what happens afterwards.
And most of the time, the clients feel like they can handle it.
And I talk to them and I have discussionsand it really seems to go somewhere.
You know, a lot of the times I'm on the sell side.
So there's that component part.
And I try to tell them what I think is going to happen.
And as somebody told me, and I've quoted himon this podcast before, when you're not really happy the way things are going, always remember.
(08:54):
And ask yourself, did the check clear?
Because it ain't your company anymore.
Which I thought was always great insight.
So I don't see what's going on.
And that's why I really wanted you to get involved withwith our podcast here and talk about how things are handled, how you've seen things are handled, and how things should be handled, if I can say it that way.
(09:15):
Because I got to be honest with you.
I have not seen that many successful integrations post closing.
It just, it just isn't there andit's beyond me to, to understand.
Of course, I'm not there.
I don't know.
I don't know how things, people handle things.
Does that give you a nice setupfor a conversation we should have?
Dawn Shuler (09:36):
It does.
It does.
And when I've been talking to you and to other people in the,in the MNA and the succession planning space, it's, there's all of this drive and attention paid to the financial due diligence.
Got it.
And I understand why that's important.
I get that.
I think that there should be, the other side of thatcoin should be, what about the cultural due diligence?
(10:00):
What about really seeing, even from the, the buyer's standpoint,Oh, this, this company has a really strong, positive culture.
Yeah.
That it's resilient.
This, this, this will probably be more seamless.
This is a company we want to buy.
So from that side and from the, the sellers who.
Maybe they care, maybe they don't carewhat happens once they're gone and out.
(10:24):
If they care, all right, let's set that up then let's,let's make it successful so that when there's that transition, we can make it as seamless as possible.
And, and so it's that focus on, on culture.
And I think every company, whatever their succession planningis, should make culture part of their strategic plan.
(10:49):
It's, it's that important.
Dave (10:51):
Well, a lot of people talk about it, right?
I just, I think it's a hard concept or maybe, maybeit's hard for me, but how do you execute upon it?
So I will be done.
The checks are exchanged.
Like I was saying on a call today, we're working on anMNA and I said, the, what I like about MNA is it's a one.
(11:12):
thing usually at the end that everybody's happyabout, and I've only found it in the law two places.
M& A's and adoption.
That's about it.
I don't find anybody else being very happywith this, so to speak, at the end of the day.
But all I see is everybody shaking hands, slapping each otheron the back, somebody got money, somebody got a company.
I see nothing.
What should the buyer be doing?
(11:33):
At that point,
Dawn Shuler (11:35):
so the buyer, well, hopefully, and maybe this is an ideal world and maybe I am very optimistic, but in an ideal world, there would be conversations there would be,
you know, what, who is the leadership team, who's your toppeople, who, who are the getter donners and what should I know?
(11:56):
And, and again, I think back to the company climateinventory where there, that's going to be that analysis.
So there, there's that.
But even just conversations between the buyer andthe seller, and then there should be transparency.
I know that sometimes, especially with largerorganizations, they keep it all hush hush, because they don't want the word to get out.
(12:19):
And they have to think, what isthat going to do to the employees?
Oh, by the way, we just sold the company.
Dave (12:25):
Yeah.
Have a nice day.
Yeah.
Hope
Dawn Shuler (12:27):
it all goes well.
See ya.
But I think there needs to be transparency as much as possible.
My, my husband and fellow trainer and consultant, he,his background is in clinical psychology and he actually had a private psychotherapy practice for over 28 years.
And he said he'd have clients who going back to the adoptionissue would say, when should we tell Jimmy that he's adopted?
(12:52):
And Mark's response was now, or you should havedone it before, but you, you tell them as soon as possible because you don't want it to be the secret and everybody really knows the secrets, right?
But then do they talk about it and hide them, whatever.
So the more transparent an organization can be.
(13:13):
Actually, the better it's going to go, even if there'sbumps, even if there's unhappy people, even if it's not as smooth, the more transparent you can be, that's actually going to lend itself to softening some of those, those bumps.
Dave (13:27):
So it sounds like people, the buyer ought to be hiring you from the buy side anyway, to come in and using your proprietary program, doing that analysis before.
And also then, then I take it.
They will then implement your recommendations after the fact.
How long does this take typically?
Dawn Shuler (13:47):
So our process for the company climate inventory is about four to six weeks from the beginning to the end, as far as that particular deliverable and our actions.
Now, of course, it's going to vary company to company, but ourrecommended actions can be things that they can do internally.
It can be things that maybe they need to outsource,bring in another firm, whether it's training, consulting, an IT firm, because maybe everybody's complaining about their ancient workstations, right?
(14:14):
And so there's, there's all sorts of things they can do.
We are launching a company climateinventory for one of our clients.
This will be the sixth year in a row that they've taken it.
So they, they do it every year.
And.
The, the recommendations change becausethe organization is evolving and changing.
Dave (14:33):
So from the sell side, you're recommending that they go through this analysis as soon as possible to get the employees set up so that they understand.
Is that information shared with the buyeror is that information just for the seller?
I'm just kind of curious.
Dawn Shuler (14:50):
So you're saying if you were the, the seller should do it.
Dave (14:53):
Right.
If the seller does that, then you get thisinformation to try to get everybody on board.
Right.
Yeah.
And you do that to help the employees through the process.
Dawn Shuler (15:02):
Exactly.
Dave (15:03):
So my, my question really becomes one of, you do all of that.
Do you share the results with the buyer or do you,does the seller keep that away from the buyer?
I'm just kind of curious.
Dawn Shuler (15:14):
Going back to the whole transparency, I would say share it with the buyer.
Now, if something comes up, I could see a case for maybe not.
Although again, Full transparency.
If you say, Hey, this is what goingthrough this process showed us.
Here's what we're doing to work on it.
And we're going to reevaluate insix months or whatever it might be.
(15:34):
So, yes, we know it's a problem.
Here's what we're doing to work on it.
And we're going to check back in with you in six months.
To me, that's, that's the three step process for success.
Dave (15:46):
So it seemed to me.
Honestly, with my M& A's going forward, as soon as theLOI's signed, I go, you got to talk to Don, get everything ship shape that that would really be the best time.
I'm afraid to wait until the definitive agreement issigned because a lot of times now definitive agreements.
A lot of times we have an execution closing at the same time.
(16:09):
So that's probably the time to do that.
Is there a range of costs typically associated or is it,does it fluctuate so widely that it's hard to give a price?
Dawn Shuler (16:19):
It's, it's based on the employee count.
And so that's, it's, yeah, it's by levels.
We have a four tier pricing structurebased on number of employees.
Dave (16:29):
And so the seller walking out of this should have a better feel for what's going on such that they can take corrective steps or deal with some of these steps.
And I imagine then you're going to give them a reportand you can work with them on the report and a plan of improvement that they could deliver to the buyer.
By example.
I get it.
That makes a ton of sense.
(16:50):
So tell me, what have been some of thegood experiences in what you're doing?
Are there any experience that standsout that really was rewarding for you?
Dawn Shuler (16:59):
We love working with our clients to, to really effect change.
Our motto is helping teams work bettertogether tomorrow than they do today.
So one of the things we had at a training earlier this year,On professional etiquette, which I couldn't believe that that was actually a request and the, the chief operating officer described it to the staff as which fork to use.
(17:27):
And so when we came in to do the firstpart of the training, I said, this is not.
Which fork to use?
This is how do you really communicatethat emotional intelligence?
How do you listen?
How do you pay attention to your body language?
All of that.
And when it was over, the CEO said.
(17:47):
This was amazing, and then when we came infor the next part, too, she said, we're using the language that that you shared with us.
We're we're using those tools.
That's what makes me excited when peoplesay, you know, it's not just okay.
That was a great training, or that was a great session.
It's here and we're using it.
We like you talked about integration, right?
(18:09):
That's one of the things, you know, acknowledge, learn,apply, and when they apply it, that's what makes me.
Dave (18:17):
At the end of the day, the process could take any amount of time, right?
So there's no one size fits all, I would think.
But at the end of the day, and I'm thinking likein an M& A transaction, if I bring you in, how long do you think it will take to do a report?
Remember, they're still running their business,I'm doing an M& A, and you've got this going along.
(18:40):
What would be the shortest period oftime and the longest period of time?
And let me start with this way.
Maybe there's a better way to do this.
What size businesses do you deal with?
All sizes, mid market, huge.
I mean, what what is your client base?
Dawn Shuler (18:55):
So our ideal client base.
It's for say the training and consulting side is about25 to 200, but we work with smaller and we work with larger for something like the company climate inventory.
It's not, it's really, well, I wouldn't do it for anorganization that had fewer than 10 or 12 employees because then it's, you can't really keep it confidential, but, but
(19:19):
other grander we can, and we can do all sorts of thingslike we can filter results and say, Oh, well, here's.
Here's what the people in, in the Chicagooffice are thinking and feeling and, and whatever versus the people in the Boston office.
And so there's so many things we can do.
So the time frame, I believe you asked, theshortest time we could probably turn this around, I would say is probably three weeks.
Dave (19:42):
Well, okay, that's pretty good because most deals are going, I figure from start to finish on any acquisition, it shouldn't be less than about 120 days.
So that would fit into that parameter.
Is what you're doing in your estimation,is this fairly new to industries?
Because I've seen a lot over the years, a lotof coaching, but I've not heard a lot of people talking about integration, if that makes sense.
Dawn Shuler (20:06):
That's a really good question.
I know that my colleagues and partners, because we partnerwith other coaches, consultants and trainers for projects that we need more than just my husband and myself.
And they feel the way we do as far as not just one anddone, come in, do it, leave, but really effect real change.
(20:28):
Is that new?
Honestly, I don't, I don't know the answer to that question.
I think what's, what's the challenge for us, whichI know is not quite the question you answered, but it might be kind of the back door and to answer your question is going back to that idea of leaders.
And are they savvy and forward thinking, or are they puttingout fires and they're dealing with the crisis of the moment?
(20:52):
What seems to be new is.
Is that that one end of the spectrum where they arebeing savvy and they're looking forward and they say, Oh, yes, culture is important and we're putting a budget behind it and resources, time and energy.
And so the work that that consultants likemyself and others, it's not necessarily new.
(21:14):
I think it's just
Dave (21:15):
evolving.
Dawn Shuler (21:16):
It is.
Yes.
Dave (21:18):
I can see it.
Where do you think your business is going tobe in 10 years or if you can see that far out?
Dawn Shuler (21:23):
So what I would love to see is, is that we have the, the company climate inventory and we actually have what we call the CCI partner program where we have other consultants who they, they offer that as a service to their clients.
I want to expand so that it's more, you know, train.
other consultants to, to analyze the data and beable to, to give that information to the client.
(21:50):
But I really see like doing 100 company climateinventories a year and having 10, consultants full time on staff to, to grow and do that.
Uh, my vision is that the company climate inventorybecomes, you know, it's called like a household world word, but we'll call it a business hold word so that you've got one CEO talking to another.
(22:14):
Have you done your, your CCI this year?
You know, Oh, we're doing it in October.
Okay, great.
We just, we did ours in, in March and I'm really excitedthat we're seeing really positive results that that's my big, big, big grand vision is that it becomes.
A household slash business hold word or frame.
Dave (22:33):
Well, you know, and in all fairness and all businesses, I always say money is an end product or as a result, it is not the goal in and of itself is
trying to figure out how to deliver to the client andkeep your people together going down the same road.
I think it's two component parts and even more so nowbecause it's hard to find good employees hard to get them as they come and go getting everybody on the same page.
(22:57):
I just think this is a dynamic area.
That is going to continue to grow and grow and grow.
And I can see, uh, well, I'm going to refer peopleto you as a source on emanated because I think this is a, a very significant piece that's overlooked oftentimes, because it's about the people.
You know, I want to thank Don again for talking with this.
(23:18):
I've learned a lot and I've got a new resource.
Thank you, Don.
If you're in search of assistance.
Go to davidsider.
com and schedule a consultation.
Also make sure to subscribe to the show, rate it,and leave me a comment on your favorite podcast platform, such as Spotify or Apple Podcasts.
Dawn, how do people reach you?
Dawn Shuler (23:38):
So you can reach out to us at the Schuller Group, LLC.
com, that's www.
theschuller.
com.
Group LLC.
com.
And I have to say, do not put the C in Shuler.
Everybody wants to put the C in Shuler.
And, and I didn't realize how much of a problemthat was going to be until I married my husband.
And I'm like, you're right.
(24:00):
Everybody puts a C in it.
He said, see, I told you.
Anyway, so the Shuler group LLC.
com.
Dave (24:06):
Dawn, thank you again.
Hey, thank you so much for listening to my podcast.
If you're seeking assistance with your business dreams,please consider checking out the resources that I can make available to you at either my LinkedIn page, obviously
my podcast, my book, Quiet Plans, exciting resultsavailable on Amazon, either in a written or verbal format.
(24:29):
And as well, check out my website, davidsider.
com a lot of content, a lot of information there.
And there's also a way for you to access an assessment, aquick 16 question survey that would allow us to get together and discuss where you're at and where you seek to go.
I'm here to help you with your dreams until then be safe.
(24:49):
This
podcast has been provided for educational purposes.
It does not constitute legal advice and is notintended to establish an attorney client relationship.
The recommendations contained in this podcast arenot necessarily appropriate for every individual or business in determining the best course of action.
(25:11):
Business owners should consult with theirprofessional in their distinct circumstances.
Show me the way episode 64 post closing architect in this episode.
Ladies and gentlemen, we're going to talk with Don Shuler,the owner of Shuler group on post acquisition, post closing matters, or we're talking about his integration.
Ladies and gentlemen, we've not had this conversation before.
It's time to have it because it comes up in every M and a
(00:37):
come to show me the web podcast about business succession,planning the merger and acquisition experience.
And successful exits.
I'm your host, Dave Sider.
I want to thank you for checking out my podcast series.
Show me the way.
If you are seeking assistance with your business dreams,please consider checking out the resources that I've made available to you at either my LinkedIn website or my podcast.
(01:02):
Again, show me the way, or you can check out mybook, quiet plans and exciting results available on Amazon in either written or audible format.
And as well, my website's davidsider.
com, where I have quite a bit of content for you toconsider and information on how you can, for a very nominal price, access an assessment that you and I can
(01:26):
review together to discuss where you're at and whereyou want to go as far as your dreams are concerned.
And I would look forward to talking to you about your future.
Joining me on today's show is DonShuler of the Shuler Group, LLC.
And I wanted to bring Dawn on here because this isthe first time with all the podcasts I've ever done that I'm bringing someone on to the show to talk about what happens after the sale of the company occurs.
(01:57):
Specifically, the integration process.
And it's funny because I was talking aboutthe This today with somebody else on their experiences, and it just has not been good.
I haven't found a whole lot of people.
It's been a good experience.
So I'm looking forward to learning something.
I know you will as well.
Dawn, welcome to the show,
Dawn Shuler (02:15):
Dave.
Thank you for having me.
I'm delighted to be here.
Dave (02:19):
So I want everyone to kind of get to know my guests up close in person, personal.
Tell me a little bit about yourself.
Where were you born?
I'm from Brooklyn.
Dawn Shuler (02:27):
All right.
Well, that's going to make itinteresting from the very beginning.
I was born in the backseat of a car in Mississippi.
Dave (02:37):
All right.
Ladies and gentlemen, this justwent to number one on the list here.
Okay.
I love this.
What part of Mississippi?
Dawn Shuler (02:48):
Meridian, Mississippi, which is I believe near Jackson.
I don't have any, I don't have any memory because my mothermoved with my grandparents to Norfolk, Virginia, probably a year and a half later, my grandfather was in the Navy.
And so moving to places that hadnaval bases when he deployed her.
Dave (03:09):
Whenever.
Well, to your point, there is a naval facility inMeridian, Mississippi, because my son went there.
So that's probably why your grandfather was there, right?
Yep.
Got it.
All right.
And it's over, I think it's on the eastern side of thestate, as I recall, a little bit away from Jackson.
There's, ladies and gentlemen, there's something youhaven't heard from any of the other guests before.
So let's go.
So you went to, do they call it NAAFC?
(03:31):
There's a way that they say it.
Dawn Shuler (03:32):
Yes.
It is, is that, so again, and I, I'vegot, I got a whole lot of stories.
I don't really have any memories of Norfolk.
My earliest memories are of Pennsylvania.
And then when I was in third grade, we moved to Oregon.
Wow.
About a year later, moved to the Dallas area.
And that's where I really think of myself as growing up.
(03:53):
That's where I graduated high school.
I went to college in, in Dallas at Southern MethodistUniversity and then moved to the East coast in 1995.
Dave (04:04):
Unbelievable.
So, when you came out of college, moved to the East Coast, whatis it that you first did that led you up to where you are now?
I'm just kind of curious.
How do you make?
The jump into integration.
Dawn Shuler (04:17):
So, boy, that's, it's, it's interesting.
Cause maybe like a lot of people, my path seems very meandering.
You might find this interesting.
When I went to SMU, the reason I choseSMU is because they have a law school.
And I thought I wanted to go into corporate laws.
And so I thought if I went to undergrad.
I would, I'd have a better chance ofgetting accepted into the law school.
(04:40):
And then I was a smart cookie, not a dumb bunny.
And I worked in their pro bono legalclinic for my first three years.
Pretty soon into working at the, at the legal clinic.
I decided I don't want to be a lawyer.
Dave (04:57):
You were smart.
That was very smart.
Dawn Shuler (05:00):
And thankfully I figured that out before going down that path.
So I. I stayed with my, my degree in Englishand I got a second degree in business because again, I was going to go into corporate law.
So even if I wasn't going to be a lawyer, I, I knewthat I was drawn to those two fields and came out of school going, well, I'm not going to be a lawyer.
(05:22):
So what do I do?
So I actually taught English for two years inTexas and was miserable, hated every minute of it.
And my first husband, At the time, he was miserable in hisjob, and that's why we picked up and moved to Maryland.
And then started my own company, managing otherpeople's businesses, and then got into the coaching and training and consulting piece.
(05:46):
And so that's where I've been for over 20 years.
Dave (05:49):
So when we talk about the Shuler Group, tell us everything that you do.
Let's start with that premise.
Dawn Shuler (05:55):
Everything we do.
Wow.
Let's see.
So our flagship product is our proprietarydiagnostic tool called the company climate inventory.
And it's, it's an assessment that really measures the healthof an organization in all sorts of areas, leadership, culture, communication, management, engagement, job satisfaction.
(06:17):
And then we're able to analyze theresults and give the clients results.
What are the strengths of the organization?
What are the challenges?
What are our recommended areas of focus and priority order, andthen an implementation roadmap, here's what you can do about it.
Dave (06:31):
So how are you brought in and when are you brought in?
I mean, how does that, that happen?
Dawn Shuler (06:36):
So let me just add a little bit more to it, to what we do, because that does.
Determine when a company might bring us in.
So we also, then we have our training and consultingservices around either management, training, communication, training, those kinds of things.
So when do clients bring us in the really savvy clients?
And I think you might find this interesting.
Dave are the ones who say.
(06:59):
You know, I want to know what's goingon in my organization as the leader.
I think I know what's going on, but do I really, as we know,a lot of things can get filtered out or softened by the time it gets all the way up to the head of the organization.
And so the savvy ones go, I want to know what's going on.
One of our longstanding clients, shewas a new CEO for this organization.
(07:24):
And she said, I don't have a history with this organization.
I need to know the stories and what's really going on.
So they brought us in to do acompany climate inventory for them.
And it was very enlightening.
Others that they're the managing partner of a firm and they say.
Well, if I'm really taking over, then what am I dealing with?
(07:47):
And, and so those are some reasons that again, the savvyleaders and then other clients bring us in when things are on fire and they say, we might need to fix something.
And so there's the both ends of the spectrum.
Dave (08:02):
Wow.
That's interesting.
I've got to write that down and remember it.
That has, I think, a lot of valuefor a lot of people that I know.
So I've learned something now.
Thank you for that.
So Don, what I have found over the years, or atleast why I have great interest in wanting to talk to you, is usually when I'm at the closing, I'm done.
(08:27):
And I don't know what happens afterwards.
And most of the time, the clients feel like they can handle it.
And I talk to them and I have discussionsand it really seems to go somewhere.
You know, a lot of the times I'm on the sell side.
So there's that component part.
And I try to tell them what I think is going to happen.
And as somebody told me, and I've quoted himon this podcast before, when you're not really happy the way things are going, always remember.
(08:54):
And ask yourself, did the check clear?
Because it ain't your company anymore.
Which I thought was always great insight.
So I don't see what's going on.
And that's why I really wanted you to get involved withwith our podcast here and talk about how things are handled, how you've seen things are handled, and how things should be handled, if I can say it that way.
(09:15):
Because I got to be honest with you.
I have not seen that many successful integrations post closing.
It just, it just isn't there andit's beyond me to, to understand.
Of course, I'm not there.
I don't know.
I don't know how things, people handle things.
Does that give you a nice setupfor a conversation we should have?
Dawn Shuler (09:36):
It does.
It does.
And when I've been talking to you and to other people in the,in the MNA and the succession planning space, it's, there's all of this drive and attention paid to the financial due diligence.
Got it.
And I understand why that's important.
I get that.
I think that there should be, the other side of thatcoin should be, what about the cultural due diligence?
(10:00):
What about really seeing, even from the, the buyer's standpoint,Oh, this, this company has a really strong, positive culture.
Yeah.
That it's resilient.
This, this, this will probably be more seamless.
This is a company we want to buy.
So from that side and from the, the sellers who.
Maybe they care, maybe they don't carewhat happens once they're gone and out.
(10:24):
If they care, all right, let's set that up then let's,let's make it successful so that when there's that transition, we can make it as seamless as possible.
And, and so it's that focus on, on culture.
And I think every company, whatever their succession planningis, should make culture part of their strategic plan.
(10:49):
It's, it's that important.
Dave (10:51):
Well, a lot of people talk about it, right?
I just, I think it's a hard concept or maybe, maybeit's hard for me, but how do you execute upon it?
So I will be done.
The checks are exchanged.
Like I was saying on a call today, we're working on anMNA and I said, the, what I like about MNA is it's a one.
(11:12):
thing usually at the end that everybody's happyabout, and I've only found it in the law two places.
M& A's and adoption.
That's about it.
I don't find anybody else being very happywith this, so to speak, at the end of the day.
But all I see is everybody shaking hands, slapping each otheron the back, somebody got money, somebody got a company.
I see nothing.
What should the buyer be doing?
(11:33):
At that point,
Dawn Shuler (11:35):
so the buyer, well, hopefully, and maybe this is an ideal world and maybe I am very optimistic, but in an ideal world, there would be conversations there would be,
you know, what, who is the leadership team, who's your toppeople, who, who are the getter donners and what should I know?
(11:56):
And, and again, I think back to the company climateinventory where there, that's going to be that analysis.
So there, there's that.
But even just conversations between the buyer andthe seller, and then there should be transparency.
I know that sometimes, especially with largerorganizations, they keep it all hush hush, because they don't want the word to get out.
(12:19):
And they have to think, what isthat going to do to the employees?
Oh, by the way, we just sold the company.
Dave (12:25):
Yeah.
Have a nice day.
Yeah.
Hope
Dawn Shuler (12:27):
it all goes well.
See ya.
But I think there needs to be transparency as much as possible.
My, my husband and fellow trainer and consultant, he,his background is in clinical psychology and he actually had a private psychotherapy practice for over 28 years.
And he said he'd have clients who going back to the adoptionissue would say, when should we tell Jimmy that he's adopted?
(12:52):
And Mark's response was now, or you should havedone it before, but you, you tell them as soon as possible because you don't want it to be the secret and everybody really knows the secrets, right?
But then do they talk about it and hide them, whatever.
So the more transparent an organization can be.
(13:13):
Actually, the better it's going to go, even if there'sbumps, even if there's unhappy people, even if it's not as smooth, the more transparent you can be, that's actually going to lend itself to softening some of those, those bumps.
Dave (13:27):
So it sounds like people, the buyer ought to be hiring you from the buy side anyway, to come in and using your proprietary program, doing that analysis before.
And also then, then I take it.
They will then implement your recommendations after the fact.
How long does this take typically?
Dawn Shuler (13:47):
So our process for the company climate inventory is about four to six weeks from the beginning to the end, as far as that particular deliverable and our actions.
Now, of course, it's going to vary company to company, but ourrecommended actions can be things that they can do internally.
It can be things that maybe they need to outsource,bring in another firm, whether it's training, consulting, an IT firm, because maybe everybody's complaining about their ancient workstations, right?
(14:14):
And so there's, there's all sorts of things they can do.
We are launching a company climateinventory for one of our clients.
This will be the sixth year in a row that they've taken it.
So they, they do it every year.
And.
The, the recommendations change becausethe organization is evolving and changing.
Dave (14:33):
So from the sell side, you're recommending that they go through this analysis as soon as possible to get the employees set up so that they understand.
Is that information shared with the buyeror is that information just for the seller?
I'm just kind of curious.
Dawn Shuler (14:50):
So you're saying if you were the, the seller should do it.
Dave (14:53):
Right.
If the seller does that, then you get thisinformation to try to get everybody on board.
Right.
Yeah.
And you do that to help the employees through the process.
Dawn Shuler (15:02):
Exactly.
Dave (15:03):
So my, my question really becomes one of, you do all of that.
Do you share the results with the buyer or do you,does the seller keep that away from the buyer?
I'm just kind of curious.
Dawn Shuler (15:14):
Going back to the whole transparency, I would say share it with the buyer.
Now, if something comes up, I could see a case for maybe not.
Although again, Full transparency.
If you say, Hey, this is what goingthrough this process showed us.
Here's what we're doing to work on it.
And we're going to reevaluate insix months or whatever it might be.
(15:34):
So, yes, we know it's a problem.
Here's what we're doing to work on it.
And we're going to check back in with you in six months.
To me, that's, that's the three step process for success.
Dave (15:46):
So it seemed to me.
Honestly, with my M& A's going forward, as soon as theLOI's signed, I go, you got to talk to Don, get everything ship shape that that would really be the best time.
I'm afraid to wait until the definitive agreement issigned because a lot of times now definitive agreements.
A lot of times we have an execution closing at the same time.
(16:09):
So that's probably the time to do that.
Is there a range of costs typically associated or is it,does it fluctuate so widely that it's hard to give a price?
Dawn Shuler (16:19):
It's, it's based on the employee count.
And so that's, it's, yeah, it's by levels.
We have a four tier pricing structurebased on number of employees.
Dave (16:29):
And so the seller walking out of this should have a better feel for what's going on such that they can take corrective steps or deal with some of these steps.
And I imagine then you're going to give them a reportand you can work with them on the report and a plan of improvement that they could deliver to the buyer.
By example.
I get it.
That makes a ton of sense.
(16:50):
So tell me, what have been some of thegood experiences in what you're doing?
Are there any experience that standsout that really was rewarding for you?
Dawn Shuler (16:59):
We love working with our clients to, to really effect change.
Our motto is helping teams work bettertogether tomorrow than they do today.
So one of the things we had at a training earlier this year,On professional etiquette, which I couldn't believe that that was actually a request and the, the chief operating officer described it to the staff as which fork to use.
(17:27):
And so when we came in to do the firstpart of the training, I said, this is not.
Which fork to use?
This is how do you really communicatethat emotional intelligence?
How do you listen?
How do you pay attention to your body language?
All of that.
And when it was over, the CEO said.
(17:47):
This was amazing, and then when we came infor the next part, too, she said, we're using the language that that you shared with us.
We're we're using those tools.
That's what makes me excited when peoplesay, you know, it's not just okay.
That was a great training, or that was a great session.
It's here and we're using it.
We like you talked about integration, right?
(18:09):
That's one of the things, you know, acknowledge, learn,apply, and when they apply it, that's what makes me.
Dave (18:17):
At the end of the day, the process could take any amount of time, right?
So there's no one size fits all, I would think.
But at the end of the day, and I'm thinking likein an M& A transaction, if I bring you in, how long do you think it will take to do a report?
Remember, they're still running their business,I'm doing an M& A, and you've got this going along.
(18:40):
What would be the shortest period oftime and the longest period of time?
And let me start with this way.
Maybe there's a better way to do this.
What size businesses do you deal with?
All sizes, mid market, huge.
I mean, what what is your client base?
Dawn Shuler (18:55):
So our ideal client base.
It's for say the training and consulting side is about25 to 200, but we work with smaller and we work with larger for something like the company climate inventory.
It's not, it's really, well, I wouldn't do it for anorganization that had fewer than 10 or 12 employees because then it's, you can't really keep it confidential, but, but
(19:19):
other grander we can, and we can do all sorts of thingslike we can filter results and say, Oh, well, here's.
Here's what the people in, in the Chicagooffice are thinking and feeling and, and whatever versus the people in the Boston office.
And so there's so many things we can do.
So the time frame, I believe you asked, theshortest time we could probably turn this around, I would say is probably three weeks.
Dave (19:42):
Well, okay, that's pretty good because most deals are going, I figure from start to finish on any acquisition, it shouldn't be less than about 120 days.
So that would fit into that parameter.
Is what you're doing in your estimation,is this fairly new to industries?
Because I've seen a lot over the years, a lotof coaching, but I've not heard a lot of people talking about integration, if that makes sense.
Dawn Shuler (20:06):
That's a really good question.
I know that my colleagues and partners, because we partnerwith other coaches, consultants and trainers for projects that we need more than just my husband and myself.
And they feel the way we do as far as not just one anddone, come in, do it, leave, but really effect real change.
(20:28):
Is that new?
Honestly, I don't, I don't know the answer to that question.
I think what's, what's the challenge for us, whichI know is not quite the question you answered, but it might be kind of the back door and to answer your question is going back to that idea of leaders.
And are they savvy and forward thinking, or are they puttingout fires and they're dealing with the crisis of the moment?
(20:52):
What seems to be new is.
Is that that one end of the spectrum where they arebeing savvy and they're looking forward and they say, Oh, yes, culture is important and we're putting a budget behind it and resources, time and energy.
And so the work that that consultants likemyself and others, it's not necessarily new.
(21:14):
I think it's just
Dave (21:15):
evolving.
Dawn Shuler (21:16):
It is.
Yes.
Dave (21:18):
I can see it.
Where do you think your business is going tobe in 10 years or if you can see that far out?
Dawn Shuler (21:23):
So what I would love to see is, is that we have the, the company climate inventory and we actually have what we call the CCI partner program where we have other consultants who they, they offer that as a service to their clients.
I want to expand so that it's more, you know, train.
other consultants to, to analyze the data and beable to, to give that information to the client.
(21:50):
But I really see like doing 100 company climateinventories a year and having 10, consultants full time on staff to, to grow and do that.
Uh, my vision is that the company climate inventorybecomes, you know, it's called like a household world word, but we'll call it a business hold word so that you've got one CEO talking to another.
(22:14):
Have you done your, your CCI this year?
You know, Oh, we're doing it in October.
Okay, great.
We just, we did ours in, in March and I'm really excitedthat we're seeing really positive results that that's my big, big, big grand vision is that it becomes.
A household slash business hold word or frame.
Dave (22:33):
Well, you know, and in all fairness and all businesses, I always say money is an end product or as a result, it is not the goal in and of itself is
trying to figure out how to deliver to the client andkeep your people together going down the same road.
I think it's two component parts and even more so nowbecause it's hard to find good employees hard to get them as they come and go getting everybody on the same page.
(22:57):
I just think this is a dynamic area.
That is going to continue to grow and grow and grow.
And I can see, uh, well, I'm going to refer peopleto you as a source on emanated because I think this is a, a very significant piece that's overlooked oftentimes, because it's about the people.
You know, I want to thank Don again for talking with this.
(23:18):
I've learned a lot and I've got a new resource.
Thank you, Don.
If you're in search of assistance.
Go to davidsider.
com and schedule a consultation.
Also make sure to subscribe to the show, rate it,and leave me a comment on your favorite podcast platform, such as Spotify or Apple Podcasts.
Dawn, how do people reach you?
Dawn Shuler (23:38):
So you can reach out to us at the Schuller Group, LLC.
com, that's www.
theschuller.
com.
Group LLC.
com.
And I have to say, do not put the C in Shuler.
Everybody wants to put the C in Shuler.
And, and I didn't realize how much of a problemthat was going to be until I married my husband.
And I'm like, you're right.
(24:00):
Everybody puts a C in it.
He said, see, I told you.
Anyway, so the Shuler group LLC.
com.
Dave (24:06):
Dawn, thank you again.
Hey, thank you so much for listening to my podcast.
If you're seeking assistance with your business dreams,please consider checking out the resources that I can make available to you at either my LinkedIn page, obviously
my podcast, my book, Quiet Plans, exciting resultsavailable on Amazon, either in a written or verbal format.
(24:29):
And as well, check out my website, davidsider.
com a lot of content, a lot of information there.
And there's also a way for you to access an assessment, aquick 16 question survey that would allow us to get together and discuss where you're at and where you seek to go.
I'm here to help you with your dreams until then be safe.
(24:49):
This
podcast has been provided for educational purposes.
It does not constitute legal advice and is notintended to establish an attorney client relationship.
The recommendations contained in this podcast arenot necessarily appropriate for every individual or business in determining the best course of action.
(25:11):
Business owners should consult with theirprofessional in their distinct circumstances.
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